#this is no excuse for his behaviour

[bennetsbonnet]

Much has been made of Mr Darcy's "confession" to Elizabeth that he does not converse easily with strangers. It is repeatedly used to support neurodivergent interpretations of his character. And I suppose that when taken at face value, a character confessing that they do not easily converse with strangers and struggle to catch their tone or appear interested in conversation can absolutely scream AUTISM! (I say as an autistic person myself)

But this line is often taken in isolation. When considered in terms of the passage in which it appears in Chapter 31, it appears far less of a smoking gun than may initially be suspected. After some discussion about Elizabeth and Darcy's prior acquaintance in Hertfordshire, Colonel Fitzwilliam asks Elizabeth for information about Darcy's behaviour there. She readily supplies it:

'Pray let me hear what you have to accuse him of,' cried Colonel Fitzwilliam. 'I should like to know how he behaves among strangers.' 'You shall hear then—but prepare yourself for something very dreadful. The first time of my ever seeing him in Hertfordshire, you must know, was at a ball—and at this ball, what do you think he did? He danced only four dances, though gentlemen were scarce; and, to my certain knowledge, more than one young lady was sitting down in want of a partner. Mr Darcy, you cannot deny the fact.' 'I had not at that time the honour of knowing any lady in the assembly beyond my own party.'

What Darcy leaves out here is that it was he himself who chose not to be introduced to anybody. As we learn from the description of his behaviour at the Meryton assembly in Chapter 3:

Mr Darcy danced only once with Mrs Hurst and once with Miss Bingley, declined being introduced to any other lady, and spent the rest of the evening in walking about the room, speaking occasionally to one of his own party.

Anyway, Elizabeth correctly does not buy his excuses. Not only does she respond with a cutting sarcastic remark, but she tries to bring the discussion with an end by speaking to Colonel Fitzwilliam:

'True; and nobody can ever be introduced in a ball-room. Well, Colonel Fitzwilliam, what do I play next? My fingers wait your orders.'

But Darcy does not get the hint and continues conversing with Elizabeth rather than quitting while he's ahead. However, I don't believe him to be missing a social cue here. Rather, this is an exceedingly conceited man who cannot conceive that anyone would not want to speak to such a Superior Being as he and more-so, is determined to defend himself from a perceived slight against his impeccable character.

Then we come to the passage containing the oft-cited line which allegedly contains proof of his neurodivergency:

'Perhaps,' said Darcy, 'I should have judged better, had I sought an introduction; but I am ill-qualified to recommend myself to strangers.' 'Shall we ask your cousin the reason of this?' said Elizabeth, still addressing Colonel Fitzwilliam. 'Shall we ask him why a man of sense and education, and who has lived in the world, is ill-qualified to recommend himself to strangers?' 'I can answer your question,' said Fitzwilliam, 'without applying to him. It is because he will not give himself the trouble.'

Once again, Elizabeth does not buy his excuse for even a single second. She's fully aware of all the advantages a man such as he will have received in society (opportunities not open to women, might I add!) and draws attention to that fact. It's a brilliant, cutting line from her and she really set that one up for Colonel Fitzwilliam to deliver the knockout blow.

Not only do we have the testimony of Mr Darcy's cousin, that 'he will not give himself the trouble,' to appear cordial to strangers, but we have evidence from Wickham too. Although after this statement, Wickham quickly goes onto misrepresent Darcy's kindness to the poor, which contradicts Mrs Reynold's later testimony, I do believe Wickham to be telling the truth (for once!) here, when he tells Elizabeth in Chapter 16:

'Mr Darcy can please where he chooses. He does not want abilities. He can be a conversible companion if he thinks it worth his while.'

Which, again, demonstrates that Darcy is capable when he wants to be. That is the crucial point. Autistic people fundamentally lack the ability to understand social cues, they cannot turn it on and off as they please because they are snobs.

So, now we come to the infamous line about Darcy's supposed social struggles, and I hope that I've provided enough context to the line to make you see that it should not be taken at face value:

'I certainly have not the talent which some people possess,' said Darcy, 'of conversing easily with those I have never seen before. I cannot catch their tone of conversation, or appear interested in their concerns, as I often see done.' 'My fingers,' said Elizabeth, 'do not move over this instrument in the masterly manner which I see so many women’s do. They have not the same force or rapidity, and do not produce the same expression. But then I have always supposed it to be my own fault—because I will not take the trouble of practising. It is not that I do not believe my fingers as capable as any other woman’s of superior execution.'

Again, Elizabeth is not buying his excuses for even a single second and tells him if he feels like that, maybe he should put the effort in. She has seen him in numerous social settings and been thoroughly unimpressed with his behaviour which, when you consider his rudeness to her at the Meryton assembly, she has every right to be.

So, what do I make of the line?

Well, I think it's abundantly clear that Darcy absolutely can speak to people when he wants to. Perhaps, in his mind, he struggles to make that deeper connection and make friends easily. But making friends is not always easy, it's a process you must invest time and effort into. If you do not do that, it stands to reason that you will struggle. Plus, if you hold others to ridiculous standards (as Darcy does) without recognising and fixing the flaws within yourself, you're not going to have deep, lasting friendships.

While this quote may appear to be a moment of vulnerability where he does confess a fault of his, which is astounding given his pride, personally I do not think it was not a soul-searching exercise. It was to make Elizabeth stop grilling him. It was self-serving. Although, I don't think he's entirely lying. Darcy is veeeery careful with his words and though this statement is not considered and perhaps comes out rather abruptly, it doesn't necessarily follow that it isn't true. I can imagine that it is probably something he's felt for a while, yet it is a rather desperate attempt to defend himself from a woman who sees right through him.

I think perhaps Darcy does realise that he isn't as naturally gifted as other men he knows (such as Wickham, Colonel Fitzwilliam and Mr Bingley) when it comes to forming acquaintances. However, he looks outwards and turns that bitterness against the world rather than looking inwards, reflecting upon himself and improving his manners which would be the correct thing to do. Thankfully, he later does this, but it took him twenty eight years...

In addition, Darcy appeared to have been under the illusion that he could coast by on Pemberley's reputation... which has always worked... until he met Elizabeth. For perhaps the first time, he encounters a woman who is not awestruck by him and his reputation and delivers the rebuke that he always needed.

So, while personally I'm inclined to believe there is some truth to his statement, as Mr Darcy is many things but he isn't a liar, I think it is said in desperation. His feeling stems from him knowing what he should do, but he can't be bothered to enact it... rather than any inherent social deficiency stemming from being neurodivergent.

Although, even if he does struggle socially, it's still no excuse for the rudeness he displayed to Elizabeth! My main issue with neurodivergent readings of Darcy is when they are deployed to defend his behaviour, when they attribute his rudeness to any potential neurodivergency and when they excuse his laziness. That is an awful message! Autistic people who struggle with social cues often do not, nor should they, go around insulting others. They should and often do put plenty of effort into being considerate and polite. In fact, I think, if anything, a love of rules makes us more likely to have good manners, rather than the reverse.

Ultimately, I'm not sure this line makes Mr Darcy the sympathetic-poor-sweet-innocent-shy-boy-autistic-representation that people want him to be. In fact it makes him look even worse, if anything. On matters such as these, he is every inch the conceited proud man he was widely believed to be at the Meryton assembly. Luckily, Elizabeth is an incredibly smart woman, who doesn't fall for it and immediately calls him out on his behaviour in a way that he has never experienced before. As she should!

[deadliestpieceontheboard]

Controversial take but I can't blame Jeremy's mom for all of the restrictions she has on him.

In one night you find out that 1) your youngest son killed himself 2) his older brother who was responsible for him for the night ditched him for an orgy and 3) he has also been addicted for years and was caught high on cocaine

Jeremy was 18. He had to spend weeks in rehab. At that point he had been using his large access to money to collect speeding tickets and buy drugs for a while...

Obviously we know she doesn't actually care, her control is of his life is way overboard and at least some of it was already going on before it all went down, but let's not pretend that a sane parent would be letting that boy 100% on his own accords by now.

[winterlsoldier]

I'm tired of people reducing the conflict in atsv to miguel "beefing with a kid" as if he doesn't believe entire universes will collapse if he doesn't stop miles

[recent-rose]

yknowwww there is something... deeply uncomfortable about the way mel never speaks directly to viktor in the 'build hextech weapons' scene. she really only speaks to jayce. plenty of people have pointed this out already but like the one scene they actually share a meaningful interaction and she treats him like he's beneath her. all this after jayce has emphasized how important viktor is, that hextech is theirs, together. she unequivocally ices him out, there's no other way to interpret this scene. the way it's shot too - from viktor's perspective, looking up at her, as though to reinforce the same belief in him. like he doesn't even bother expecting respect from her - or anyone from the upper echelon of piltover. he's fully accustomed to being dehumanized by everyone around him at this point. sometimes even by jayce, despite the trust they clearly have in each other.

then of course after this scene is viktor experimenting on himself. it's pretty clear that he has internalized his own dehumanization. crazy.

[museofvoid]

i can't read posts defending ascended astarion because they make me so angry so i need to rant. and no it's not because i'm a "hater". i love astarion! and while i do prefer spawn astarion, that doesn't mean i don't enjoy ascended astarion as well!

yes if romanced he still loves tav, but he does so in an unhealthy and obsessive way. he literally forces tav to become his vampire spawn (just because he calls them his "consort" doesn't change that) if they want to keep their relationship with him. he doesn't even give them time to think, they have to decide right now. and if they say no, he gets mad.

and if tav asks about becoming a true vampire astarion will avoid the subject and say something about them needing time to adjust. he's afraid of tav leaving leaving him and so he needs control over them. if tav questions him about their relationship before making a choice he'll even say, out loud, that he views sex as a means of control. right before he plans to have to sex with you.

i've talked about this before but the line - He will see you as degrading yourself if you continue to be with him. But perhaps you wish to degrade yourself. And he knows it. - that you get if you read his thoughts later, literally confirms his motives. Tav will always be in a position below him, they will never be equals. But to him, if Tav still says yes, that means they consent to that. (and maybe they do, who am i to judge! my first durge certainly liked that idea)

astarion is bad at relationships, understandably. he doesn't know how to do romance proper, all he knows is practiced lines and physical touches. but if he loves you he'll want to get better at it! spawn astarion knows that a relationship with him takes a lot of work, both from his partner and himself, and he's willing to put in that work, but also understands if it's too much for you. meanwhile ascended astarion completely skips that step and takes the relationship he wants by force.

i've kinda lost the thread of where i was going with this, but the first time i ascended romanced astarion he made me deeply uncomfortable. and that's the point. now as i said, i still enjoy him, while also recognising that he is fucked up and abusive. the main difference between his ascended and spawn endings is that aa doesn't work through his trauma, he sweeps it under a rug of power and influence, and that will show in a relationship with him. and that's not a bad thing from a story perspective! it's very good and well done actually! i like it!

anyway i like ascended astarion and you're also allowed to like ascended astarion for whatever reason but please at least recognise the red flags

[joongdunking]

JoongDunk being so sweet early in the morning! 🥰

Whatever this is

So happy to see FKJD reunited!! ❤️‍🔥

[theotherbuckley]

Grief explains the actions but it doesn’t justify them.

[bennetsbonnet]

'Go to hell' is basic. 'I hope one of your favourite characters in all of fiction constantly gets their personality and motivations misrepresented in posts that go viral online, leading to persistent misunderstanding of them as all of their flaws are excused and their character arc is flattened' is real. It's possible. It's terrifying. It happened to me. Again.

(Obviously not my screenshot as for starters I wouldn't 'like' such a thing... but anyway I quit that hideous website long ago. This is yet another terrible Mr Darcy take courtesy of Pinterest... why is it always on there that I find these horrendous takes?!)

At what precise point in the narrative was Mr Darcy ever shy?

He certainly seemed to have no problem with speech when it came to insulting Elizabeth at the Meryton assembly when he publicly insulted her, nor was he so overcome by 🥺social anxiety🥺 that it prevented him from making it abundantly clear that he was singling her out as the subject of his disparaging remark:

'Which do you mean?' and turning round [Mr Darcy] looked for a moment at Elizabeth, till catching her eye, he withdrew his own and coldly said: 'She is tolerable, but not handsome enough to tempt me; I am in no humour at present to give consequence to young ladies who are slighted by other men...'

But Darcy was not simply awful about Elizabeth in her presence. Oh no, he was also quite happy to insult her looks to his friends;

Mr Darcy had at first scarcely allowed her to be pretty; he had looked at her without admiration at the ball; and when they next met, he looked at her only to criticise. But no sooner had he made it clear to himself and his friends that she hardly had a good feature in her face...

As well as making Elizabeth and her family the butt of his jokes, as Caroline Bingley later informs us:

'I remember, when we first knew her in Hertfordshire, how amazed we all were to find that she was a reputed beauty; and I particularly recollect [Mr Darcy] saying one night, after they had been dining at Netherfield, "She a beauty!—I should as soon call her mother a wit."'

Nor did Mr Darcy (who we are explicitly told has no difficulty making long speeches) have any problem with telling Elizabeth to her face exactly how far he considered her beneath him during his proposal to her:

[Darcy] spoke well; but there were feelings besides those of the heart to be detailed; and he was not more eloquent on the subject of tenderness than of pride. His sense of her inferiority— of its being a degradation—of the family obstacles which had always opposed to inclination...

All while he insulted her intelligence as he insisted that he's Such A Catch that he could have easily flattered his way into her heart:

These offenses might have been overlooked, had not your pride been hurt by my honest confession of the scruples that had long prevented my forming any serious design. These bitter accusations might have been suppressed, had I, with greater policy, concealed my struggles, and flattered you...

Idk... he doesn't seem so shy to me!

The only way any of this behaviour could be accidental was if Darcy was a full-time somnambulist. But given that he doesn't use that excuse in his letter, I'm inclined to believe that wasn't the case...

Also, I feel like shy and aloof is sort of a contradiction. Shy people are less inclined to be outgoing and talkative by their very nature, but it does not necessarily follow that they are rude and if they are, innate shyness is no excuse to hurt anyone's feelings. To be aloof, to me, seems to be a conscious choice rather than merely someone's nature. So, while I would agree that Darcy is aloof, he absolutely knows how to speak to people; he knows how to be polite. But he chooses not to be, because he thinks everyone else is beneath him...

Mr Darcy's choice to be rude and treat those that he viewed beneath him with utter contempt, as they were not worth the effort it would require from him to simply be civil, is such a fundamental aspect of his character. It is absolutely vital to grasp if you are ever to fully appreciate Pride and Prejudice for the masterpiece that it is.

Otherwise there's no pride and no prejudice... so what are we left with... 'and'? Doesn't exactly sound like a page-turner to me...

[deathandnonexistentialdread]

Jun's brothers do not really care about him. they only see him as nothing more than a pawn for world domination

[raptor-claw]

im sorry but jax telling gangle he likes her better when she’s sad was genuinely insane. like don’t get me wrong i am a jax lover but oh my lord something about that hit way too deep. i was ready to throw fists for my gal. what an actually mental thing to say to someone, that you prefer them when they’re at their worst mentally. i genuinely got mildly triggered from that lol. justice for gangle my guys!

[madrewrites]

absolutely fckd of the heartbreak high writers to make spider speak french. absolutely fucked.

have they no compassion for my poor nerves.

[afurtivecake]

It's easy to get the impression that Tetsuji never cared enough to rein in Riko's behaviour and temper but I think it's the opposite. I think Riko grew up constantly being told stuff like, "You have to learn to control your temper" and, "Is that any way to behave?" by Tetsuji. I think Tetsuji would have even disciplined him harshly every time he was caught acting out of anger. But all that is coming from Tetsuji - the man who would beat a kid if they displeased him in any way. How can you ever really take to heart the words of someone who demonstrates the exact opposite of what they preach? How are you supposed to not learn that the real lesson is, "Become the one who has all the power over everyone else and you will never have to suffer criticism for how you behave ever again."

[saturncoyote]

Giving my guy who sucks ass a sad backstory and then immediatelly starting to sweat imagining scenarios where people start calling him a sad little meow meow and forget that he's still waking up every day and actively choosing by his own volition to be a shithead and a problem

[aleksanderscult]

Majority of the fandom likes Zoya over Alina and I don't know why.

Nikolai's duology has certainly made her popular. Most people nowadays love bitchy characters with a tragic past and a happy ending so Zoya ticks their boxes.

📝 She can turn into a dragon and has so many new cool powers so she's a badass.

📝 She is a bitch but she has a "good" reason to be.

📝 She has fallen in love with Nikolai (another popular character).

📝 She has a tear-jerking past (which is always endearing)

In a summary, fandoms and media never change, dear anon.

[bennetsbonnet]

I always think that it is at once interesting and baffling (plus perhaps a little infuriating) whenever Mr Darcy's character is reduced to 'socially anxious, awkward bean,' and his numerous character flaws are ignored, because we clearly have a canonical example of his reaction when his shortcomings are ignored by others.

In Chapter 11, when Darcy makes the cheeky comment about admiring their figures from his spot by the fire, Caroline, in response, asks how he should be punished, to which Elizabeth replies:

'Tease him—laugh at him. Intimate as you are, you must know how it is to be done.'

Obviously the little dig that Elizabeth makes at Caroline regarding her not being as close to Mr Darcy as she might believe is entirely lost on Caroline, as she immediately launches into a passionate defence of Darcy:

'But upon my honour, I do not. I do assure you that my intimacy has not yet taught me that. Tease calmness of manner and presence of mind! No, no—feel he may defy us there. And as to laughter, we will not expose ourselves, if you please, by attempting to laugh without a subject. Mr Darcy may hug himself.'

Essentially, Caroline is complimenting Darcy's calm disposition, his composure and ability to contain his emotions (which is amusing in itself because he fails miserably at both when in the presence of a lady that he is actually attracted to, i.e. Elizabeth) before she concludes that Darcy has no personality trait that could possibly laughed at.

Mr Darcy, however, doesn't allow such an opinion of him to go unchecked. He responds and explicitly accepts he isn't perfect, as he says that:

'Miss Bingley,' said he, 'has given me more credit than can be.'

Following some back-and-forth regarding Elizabeth loving a laugh and Darcy basically saying he can't possibly be overly proud because of his sUpEriOr MiNd (ha!) Caroline chimes back in with a question:

'Your examination of Mr Darcy is over, I presume,' said Miss Bingley; 'and pray what is the result?'

Elizabeth sarcastically responds:

'I am perfectly convinced by it that Mr Darcy has no defect. He owns it himself without disguise.'

And does Darcy agree with even that teasing assertion that he has absolutely no faults? No. He tells us as much; he admits that he is flawed, but he hopes his faults are not bad enough to be judged for:

'No,' said Darcy, 'I have made no such pretension. I have faults enough, but they are not, I hope, of understanding.

Then he proceeds to tell us what he believes to be his biggest faults which, if we were to take this dialogue at face-value, we would presumably give him credit for his self-awareness:

'My temper I dare not vouch for. It is, I believe, too little yielding—certainly too little for the convenience of the world. I cannot forget the follies and vices of others so soon as I ought, nor their offences against myself. My feelings are not puffed about with every attempt to move them. My temper would perhaps be called resentful. My good opinion once lost, is lost forever.'

I do believe he is being as sincere as he possibly was capable of being here; at this moment, no one had ever challenged his behaviour in the way that Elizabeth eventually does.

However, everything he says is quite superficial and dismisses legitimate grievances that others may have against him. Even in this attempt to be self-aware, we see evidence of his pride; he dismisses behaviour that he finds unacceptable as 'follies and vices,' as though he sees himself above such personal shortcomings; he has a pretty self-centred viewpoint as he deems conflict as, 'offences against myself,' as though he is always the wronged party, rather than he himself ever having wounded others (which is patently wrong, given the insult he aimed at Elizabeth at the Meryton assembly); he also very much gives not like other boys energy when he says his feelings are not 'puffed about with every attempt to move them,' like he couldn't possibly be a sheep and could never be as easily persuaded into a certain course of action as someone like Bingley, which is itself implausible.

So, in showing his disdain for being portrayed as perfect and attempting to be honest about his faults, in fact Darcy further demonstrates deep personal shortcomings that he is seemingly blind to, given his pride. Which is another level of irony considering the interpretations of his character that deem him a beautiful cinnamon roll; too good for this world, too pure.

Ultimately, Mr Darcy is a complex, flawed character. He is not, in my opinion, consciously deceiving Elizabeth here. He undoubtedly possesses many positive traits which thankfully he is eventually able to be recognised for, thanks to Elizabeth's rebuke. But I think he evidently despises the type of flattery which Caroline deploys in this exchange when she acts as though he is flawless. I think Mr Darcy is capable of being self-critical (otherwise he would never have reflected upon his behaviour) to the point that even the reformed Darcy we see at the end of the novel would never believe himself to be without fault, nor would he ever make excuses for his initial behaviour towards Elizabeth.

So, if Mr Darcy himself would never allow his behaviour to be deemed faultless by others, why bother trying to make excuses for him, rather than simply accepting he was wrong in the beginning and absolutely needed to improve himself?

[motelhoneyy]

me: *talking about jack and jackie’s relationship and how sweet they were together and how much they truly loved each other even if they didn’t know how to show it*

someone: BuT hE cHeATed ON HEr cONsTanTLy sO he CLeArLy dIdnT LovE hEr

me: