Hi spacerockfloater!
I've been scrolling through your posts, and I must say, you have done a phenomenal job debating Team Black and Alicent Antis! I think I must have liked almost every one of your Team Green posts. I love the way you are critical of both sides and your in-depth analysis of various scenes throughout the show.
My question is how do you feel about Alicole in season 2 after watching the first episode? I was disappointed that there was no buildup to their sex scene or their relationship as a whole. I was satisfied with their courtly love last season, but extremely disappointed after watching S2.
I've recently started posting pro alicent/pro alicole discussions myself, though before, I was just reblogging them. Team Black stans claim that they don't have any problem with Alicent shagging Cole, (loll). What they don't like is her mocking Rhaenyra for doing the same with Harwin, and I feel like some TG stans are agreeing with that take.
How do you feel about Alicent being called a hypocrite for doing the same thing she called out Rhaenyra for? And how do you refute Team Black when they bring this up?
(Basically, this is me trying get some debate lessons from you lmao)
Forgive me for making this post so long! I hope it isn't a hassle!! :)))
You are literally the sweetest, I beam every time I get a notification from you! Thank you so much for enjoying the content of my blog! It’s no hassle at all, I’d love to explain my views on Alicole. Please remember that this is solely my own interpretation and I hope that it helps you develop your own opinion on their relationship regardless of whether you agree or disagree with me! I hope my post helps you win in the debates to come dearest!
To begin with, I’ve posted a lot of rants about Alicole like this, this, this and this, with this being my best analysis on them. Generally, I’ve spoken a lot about them recently but I’ll try to summarise my thoughts in one post as best as I can.
Okay so, Alicole is my favourite ship in HOTD. Their chemistry when they have conversations together is unmatched. Not only that, but individually, they are both amazing characters in their own right and they share a lot of parallels. They are both victims of the Targaryen dynasty and they both did what their abusers expected them to do, only to end up hated and rejected regardless. What I liked about them together is how soft yet driven and unwavering they were. Despite being wronged, they patiently endured it because they had faith in themselves and trusted that justice would be served. They weren’t desperate. There was a calm yet strong power within them. I loved the way their connection blossomed during the first season. Watching Alicent pull Criston up while they were both at the lowest point of their lives (Alicent’s father leaving, meaning she was completely alone at court and Criston having broken his oath for nothing, while his secret was out and threatened his life) and him responding to her call and rising to stand besides her, was the pinnacle of romance for me. The understanding Alicent shows Criston and the fierce loyalty Criston has for Alicent makes them such a power couple.
In season one, I loved their glances towards one another, their conversations, their agreement on several subjects. I loved that Criston was the first person Alicent called to when she was wronged on Driftmark, because she knew he would do right by her. And I loved that Criston, despite his devotion to Alicent, still felt that he had enough authority to not obey a wish of hers that he thought unfair, but immediately launched forward when she and Nyra got into a fight, taking three other guards to hold him back. Like you, I, too, was a fan of their courtly love and the subtle romance that was building up between them. In the end, they both have sexual and religious trauma, and they deserve to overcome it and live for themselves.
That being said, I think their relationship was treated awfully in the second season. Alicole becoming canon was used as a weapon to enhance the negative feelings the majority of the audience harboured for them, not as a way to explore their personalities further. All the emotional aspect of their relationship has been scrapped off and what’s left behind is that twisted, carnal side of it. Not gonna lie, I used to love watching their scenes together but now I am filled with dread every time they’re on screen because “Oh God, what if it is another sex scene?”. At this point, we have more Alicole sex scenes than we have of Daemyra and they’re purposely doing that to make us dislike them.
The whole reason that I found Alicent and Criston’s relationship so intriguing is because it was a deeper, state-of-mind type of relationship that was based on their common beliefs and experiences, which was a stark contrast to Daemon and Rhaenyra’s catastrophic passion.
And it just doesn’t make sense for a woman whose every sexual experience in her life so far has been rape to run to another man’s arms so suddenly in our eyes. You’re telling me that this girl who was tortured with her own body by not one, but two men, is suddenly all in for casual and hateful sex? I mean, ok I guess, we all react differently to trauma and maybe I’m misinterpreting Alicent’s character and projecting my own ideas on her, but then again I don’t think so. I am much more inclined to believe that this was done on purpose to please the Blacks’ fans. I mean, don’t we remember when Tyrion calls himself a fool for not clocking that a woman who was just sexually assaulted would not jump into his bed immediately after? What happened to that? I get that a woman that hasn’t had intercourse in years, considering Viserys’s health issues and all that, being in need of intimacy but they made it happen too fast.
I would have liked seeing them slowly fall for one another, them touching hands secretly, soft hugs, Alicent’s head on Criston’s chest. I would have liked seeing them ponder on the uncertainty that’s looming over them because “What’s going to happen now? What does the future hold for us?”. But then again, I understand that Condal’s intention is for us to hate them, not to make us like them more, because God forbid someone who’s not up Rhaenyra’s ass is likeable. Overall, I think Ryan generally enjoys using the Greens’s desires to ridicule them. The Alicole sex scenes, Aemond visiting the brothel, the mention of Aegon’s and Helaena’s married life, it all serves as a means to diminish them and embarrass them. Even the way the Alicole sex scenes are filmed, the angle of the camera, the positions, their content, is all just used to make us laugh at them, not to find them sexy, unlike Daemyra’s scenes.
So to summarise my thoughts on them, I am a big fan of Alicole the way they were portrayed in S1, but I do not like the way things escalated between them in S2 in the slightest so far (and that’s probably what Condal wanted anyways). I needed to see more of their romance building up before it turned physical.
Now, when it comes to Team Black calling them hypocrites, at this point I just roll my eyes at them because there’s no reason to argue with a fool. Alicent would have been a hypocrite if she hated Rhaenyra for having sex out of wedlock, but that’s not why she was pissed at her. She criticised her because she was seen in a pleasure house losing her virginity to her own uncle, which is indecent behaviour to say the least and could damage her reputation and her claim to the throne, not to say that it was a big “Fuck you” to Alicent’s face who had toiled hard to get Nyra the opportunity to marry any man in the kingdom, despite Rhaenyra’s hatred for her. She was also angry at her for lying in order to convince her to defend her to Viserys, which ultimately resulted in her father getting fired, a decision she deeply regrets when she finds out that her friend used her. And finally, she is judgemental of her producing bastards, flaunting them around, claiming they are legitimate when they’re clearly not and pushing her own children further down the line of succession. Alicent might not agree with Rhaenyra having sex with other men, that is true, but her hatred and criticism is directed at the effect Rhaenyra’s actions have on her and her family! Alicent has good reason to disapprove of Rhaenyra’s careless behaviour because it directly harms her, she does not criticise Rhaenyra simply for her extramarital activities. People who fail to see that just want to blindly hate on Alicent. Also, Alicent has done her duty. She was loyal to her husband, she gave him children, practically worked as his nurse for years. What duty is she breaking by sleeping with Cole? What else should she be sacrificing? Her relationship with him affects only him and her. Finally, Criston’s ascension symbolises his rebirth into Alicent’s protector. He exists, now, only to serve her interests. He tells her in the last episode that he can never atone for his sins, meaning that he has accepted his mistakes and knows that there’s no point in trying to erase them now. The man that thought his honour is the most important thing in the world died the day Rhaenyra equated him to a whore. I do not understand people’s obsession with wanting Criston to maintain his oath of celibacy, a vow he gave to the family that used him for sex? Sounds like rape apology to me. Him having sex now does not diminish the trauma he went through or how important his oath and honour were to him back then, nor does it minimise the importance of his suicide attempt. It disgusts me to hear people say that. It just shows that Criston has finally more to live for and that he’s retaking his life in his hands again.
Alicent having consensual sex that affects no one in her 40’s, after she birthed 4 children and became a widow, is not the same as Rhaenyra going to a brothel, losing her virginity to her uncle and her guard in the same night, lying that she didn’t, having sex with her uncle on his wife’s and her baby daddy’s funeral and pretending her children have a claim to the throne. Using the “Where’s duty? Where’s sacrifice?” line against Alicent carries the same energy as the Phantom of the Opera mocking Raoul as he chokes him by telling him to “Order [his] fine horses now!” because he was jealous of Raoul when he called his horses to take Christine on a date, something the Phantom could not do. Both of these lines being used against those who said them originally only show the pettiness of the mockers, because Alicent is not dismissing any duties or sacrifices by having sex with Criston, same as Raoul was not flaunting his wealth when he called for his carriage. The Team Black stans who use this line, just like the Phantom, are simply demonstrating their own jealousy and insecurities by trying to make fun of Alicent in a way that doesn’t even make sense. She has made sacrifices aplenty, her duty is fulfilled and now her watch has ended.
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I love your TMA swap AU so much and love seeing posts about it
do you like, have any more info on it you haven’t shared yet?!?
you don’t have to share if you want to, it just kinda consumed my mind 👉👈
CRASHING IN AT LIGHTNING SPEEDS
I absolutely have info and I love talking about it — It’s consumed my mind as well!
I realise I haven’t really talked about one of the key aspects of the AU which is Elias and his slow descent into becoming a vessel for Jonah Magnus, albeit with a twist.
I’m always particularly fond of Swap AUs that really play around with the idea of characters in different roles, and for Elias, that meant he couldn’t simply be the Archivist. While Jon’s story revolves around humanity, Elias’ story in this AU is more an exploration of identity and how the lines blur.
I had to play around a bit with canon, give reason as to why Jonah hasn’t just taken Elias as his vessel yet or taken someone else, and is having to retreat to his old body, using the last few years it has left in it. The idea I settled on was that his vessels need to be specific, preferably someone already touched by the Eye, and a body who he Knows can withstand the shift. These potential vessels aren’t as common but he knows one will been drawn to the Institute eventually.
The problem with Elias Bouchard, is that he still has people left who would notice the change, people he’s close to - Sasha, Tim, Gwendolyn, etc. I have mentioned before that this is why he was made Head Archivist. The Archive is the most dangerous place to work and the easiest place to set Elias on the course of becoming an Avatar himself, making him even more suitable, and isolating him, whether it be through his friends dying, or him isolating himself due to the stress and/or paranoia. Anything like that really.
And, while he isn’t the Archivist, he does develop his own set of abilities, more centred on Watching, similar to Jonah. In late s2 for example, his eyes have started to adjust to Seeing, and he becomes distinctly aware of Not-Sasha, hence his attempt at attacking her with a metal pipe.
He doesn’t view these abilities as negatively as you’d think really, namely because they give him a sense of purpose, a feeling of importance and power which he has longed for his whole life. He often believes he deserved better than what he has, deserves to be respected, stemming from his relationship with his father. He only realises a little too late that what’s happening to him isn’t a good thing, and that he’s losing the people he cares most about.
It’s during his coma in s4 that the identity aspect truly comes into play.
Jonah decides this is the perfect chance to take Elias’ body, and Martin is left with the task, mainly due to Jon being in jail and Martin’s ability to go unnoticed. This is one of the things Martin would really rather avoid doing but Jon asked, and so he obliges.
It doesn’t… work out though. He’s only able to replace one eye — very clumsily at that — before someone walks in, and while they don’t see Martin, they do see the mess he’s left behind.
Elias unfortunately wakes up not long after, and Jonah decides to put the other eye on hold for a short while. He’s… curious, really. He wants to Know what will happen, what this will feel like for the both of them.
S4 is probably my favourite era of the AU solely for the exploration of Elias and Jonah and how the other characters interact with that. They don’t know what’s happened to Elias, a man who had looked an absolute mess for months, suddenly looking pristine, with his hair cut short — he’s always hated short hair — and an eye that definitely isn’t his own. I should add, before now, he’s never gone by Elias. He never liked it, mainly due to the disappointed or angry tones it was often said in by family. He insisted on being called Eli, but, in s4, suddenly he’s rather insistent on going by Elias.
It’s disturbing, to say the least, and the thing is, he’s aware something is wrong, aware he’s acting differently, that his dominant hand has changed from right to left, that his wants and beliefs are being clouded by something else, but he doesn’t know what’s happening anymore, and he doesn’t know how to convey his own distress. He’s acting in ways he otherwise wouldn’t, and it just comes naturally to him. Anytime he even considers breaking down, begging someone to hear him, to recognise he’s just as scared as they are, he’s struck with the thought he doesn’t want to do that.
Everyone tells him he’s changed, and he knows, and he can’t do anything about it.
I’ve wrote a lot already so I’ll probably go more in depth on that another time, but for now, I did actually start writing a Transcript Style thing for an interaction with Gwen, who’s convinced her brother has been replaced entirely, so I’ll share a snippet of that!
I am so very normal about the Swap!Siblings <- lying so badly
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Question (because i'm curious and because i love enabling friends' hyperfixation): what is Tengu no Daidokoro? Why do you like it? What are you hoping for in a s2?
Also, should i watch it?
I adore Koisenu Futari and i have other similar queer-people-in-their-daily-life Japanese shows on my watch list (i loved my dining table and i have Kinou nani Tabeta and Tsukuritai Onna to Tabetai Onna waiting) that i just know i will love once i have the time to watch it!
Is Tengu no Daidokoro anything like it?
Thank you so much for this ask cause it gives me the opportunity to share my love for this show and also maybe make other people want to check it out.
Before anything else. This is not a queer show. All those shows you mentioned are some of my favourite shows, as you can see by my choice of pfp I adore Koisenu Futari as well. Kinou Nani Tabeta and Tsukutabe are magic and I really hope you get to them because they are so amazing. But Tengu is not that.
It's an absolute gem and I adore it.
Now. Why do I love it? Why I am excited like it's christmas morning and I still believe in santa? So many reasons...
-IT'S GORGEOUS (if I hadn't binged this ,I would've giffed every frame)
I mean the greens are just incredible. All the colours in these show are actually. The change in the colours is amazing as well. My delusional brain will believe that this second season was made specifically so that me and @colourme-feral could once again lose our minds over THE GREENS.
-It's about two brothers. (I love stories around family)
Motoi (older brother played by Komagine Kiita) and On. A city 14 year old who comes to stay at his older brother's house in a rural area. They are estranged and have little in common. On is the perfect representation of 'kids these days...' (I know I'm getting old when this is what comes to mind), completely hates the idea of being away from the city and technology and internet (I related). Motoi is at home here, he's very quiet and calm. I love them. I love this relationship. I love how it grows and I can't wait to see where they go next.
-The food. (I love food)
Motoi has his own vegetable garden and he makes everything from there or other local sources. Just like the shows you mentioned in your ask, the food is a major ingredient to this story. It's the thing that brings these brothers together as well. the scene in the above gif is one of my favourites because of that. Not gonna give you spoilers.
-The dog. but also...
this is where the show takes a different turn than you'd expect. although not really because it's in the synopses, but if you only knew this show from gifs and this post you would not see this one coming. There's a supernatural element to this show. For starters that cute dog you see there, he talks. He's a talking dog!!! And he is delightful. but also this
(Can we just stop for a second and appreciate how beautiful Kiita is? I barely recognized him in 25 ji.) So yeah it's in the show's name, Tengu's Kitchen. Tengu's are a legendary creature from japanese folklore and the brothers are descendants of them. (more info here about that if you're curious).
-The three of them.
I adore them. I don't want to say more so you'll just have to watch it.
-the setting (did I mention it's gorgeous?)
I know I've mentioned the visuals but it's not just that. it's the scenery and the rhythm and the music (I love the ost of this show) and the everything. Look I watch shows for a bunch of different reasons. This one, I watch it, or rewatch it as the case may be, for my soul. It's beautiful, it's soothing, it's touching, and I feel better after watching it. I really can't explain it any other way.
There are more things I could say honestly but this is already so much longer than I intended. But it's 10 episodes of 30 minutes and as with a lot of jdramas, an incredible human @aoinousagi has fansubbed it for our viewing plesure. here is the link to their post.
These are just some of the reasons I love it and can't wait to watch more. I never expected it but this day is better because of that announcement alone. I'm so happy. I will do rewatch soon, and probaly gif more of it so maybe more people will want to check it out.
@yannig thank you so much for this question. Sorry if it's a bit of a incoherent mess but I'm really excited and having trouble putting it into words. And I know there are a lot of shows to watch and not enough time to watch them all, so of course no pressure, but if you're ever in the mood for something that is wholesome and beautiful I do recommend it highly.
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If I see one more post about why C!Dream is not a villain, I will rage-
C!Dream is a complex character with an understandable motive, and his spiralings was very realistic and I can one hundred percent see why. He is a very morally gray, albeit leaning more toward black than white, character. It wouldn’t be fair if I just label him as THE villain, because perspectives exist, and in some member’s perspective, like Purpled for example, he’s definitely not as evil as he is in, say, Tubbo’s perspective.
But that doesn’t change the fact Dream was a horrible person.
Just because he had a understandable motive, that doesn’t mean the shit that happened in Exile is justified. That doesn’t mean Doomsday is justified. That doesn’t mean all the manipulation and all the lying are justified. That doesn’t mean what he and Punz did to Vikkstar and Lazarbeam is justified. That doesn’t mean what happened in prison was justified.
Especially Exile and Vikkstar & Lazarbeam ! Exile is for isolating Tommy so he can’t cause trouble, not for abusing and gaslighting him to near the point of fucking suicide ! And what happened to Vikkstar & Lazarbeam was completely unnecessary ! Dream and Punz did NOT need to kill them over and over and over just to test the Revival Book, that is cruel and several violations of human’s rights.
Conclusion : C!Dream fucking sucks and I wish Punz didn’t brought him back. I’m an enthusiast, not apologist. His motive makes him explainable, not justifiable or excusable, and if I ever somehow manage to rip the fabric of reality and teleport to the DSMP universe, the first thing I will do is find Dream to deck him.
… But he’s still a complex character and one of my favourites.
Anyway, if I miss a point or something, do remind me. I’ll probably edit this and add more character analysis in the morning, when my thoughts are actually coherent and I’m not writing something from pure spite and anger.
Morning edit :
He also hurt Geogre and Sapnap. Sure, he never physically hurt them as far as we’re aware, but do you know how painful it is to watch your friend spirals and became the total opposite of how they were ? How helpless it feels when you realised your friend is too far gone and you can’t help them ? How guilty it is when you think of all the times you could reach out and stop them from turning out like this but you didn’t ? How badly that would take a toll on your mental health ?
But anyway, just because C!Dream is a horrible person, that doesn’t mean what happened in prison is okay. The whole obsidian cell with lava door and raw potato ? Yeah, that’s fine, I can get behind that, since it was his idea for prison to be like that. It’s just karma. What I meant is the torture part. Does he deserve it ? Depends who you ask. I personally think it was justified and deserved, but that still doesn’t make it okay.
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