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babybells123 · 7 months ago

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Regarding the original outline + some thoughts on Jon & Sansa…

This is a long one. Buckle up.

If there is one thing I have picked up on in the ASOIAF fandom, it’s the knee-jerk negative reaction towards any theory/parallel/connection between Jon and Sansa. This was exacerbated by the show, of course but even now - five years later, there is an insane amount of vitriol that my brain is unable to comprehend. And here’s the rub; the infamous 1993 outline is the irony of it all.

In a fandom that is a-okay with *certain* incest ships (r.e D@enerys x Jon, D@emon x Rh@enyra, Jon x Aria), as well as blatantly pedophilic ships (Sansa x S@ndor, Sansa x Littlefinger, Sansa x Tyrio*), how is Jon x Sansa the worst of them all? I’m going to pin it down to audience engagement with the show, particularly around the later seasons when Jon + Sansa reunite and people began to ‘ship’ them. So many believe that is how the ship took off, and thus it is mere crack - but there are posts tracking back to 2012/2013 theorising the possibility of Jon x Sansa. Was it spurred by the show? Certainly! But it does not take away from the fact that people were making valid arguments and essays before the general fandom was even comprehending a Jon and Sansa reunion on screen. And people were open to discussing/debating it with general civility (a far cry from today).

I’m 90% certain people weren’t criticising those who began to believe in Jon x Aria when the outline was leaked…(though there were most definitely shippers before). But we never see the same level of vitriol towards Jon x Aria shippers, which is strange.

In any case, let’s talk about said outline, some of the key points - and how I believe GRRM made the switch from Jon x Aria to Jon x Sansa. I’ll be drawing from GRRM’s past works, interviews, art, and his personal life - as well as other potential literary influences. I'll be linking metas along the way, but without further ado - let's go.

In October 1993, GRRM wrote a pitch outline for a publishing company. It was three pages long and conveyed alongside the first thirteen chapters of AGOT (170 pages). The three paged letter was leaked on twitter in February 2014, though there were multiple aspects parts blacked out. Keep in mind though, this may not be the *only* outline that exists. There are multiple outlines that have never been publicly released (and will likely remain that way).

But let’s just focus on the 1993 outline, since we’re privy to the details. The thirteen chapters attached to the outline did *not* yet have a Sansa POV, and that’s because in this outline, she wasn’t listed as a key character.

The key characters were; Bran, Jon, Tyrion, D@enerys, and Aria.

The first thirteen chapters were; Prologue; Bran I, Catelyn I, D@enerys I, Eddard I, Jon I, Catelyn II, Aria I, Bran II, Tyrion I, Jon II, D@enerys II, Eddard II, Tyrion II.

I’ve seen people claim that Sansa isn’t an important character since she wasn’t listed as a key character, but they conveniently leave out the fact that a) her chapters were not yet written, b)she was given an entirely different more passive storyline in this outline, c) she dies, d) this was far far before GRRM fleshed out his characters entirely - Sansa took on a life of her own and she became her own solid complex character with an arc in 4 out of 5 of the books; 25 chapters.

In fact, since the books have been published GRRM has regarded Sansa and the Starks as a main character as well;

Collider: In creating this world, did you start out with one family and then branch off into the rest of the world?

GRRM: Well, the Starks are certainly the centre of the story, when it begins. It all begins at Winterfell, with occasional cuts to Daenerys across the ocean, because there was no way I could get her into Winterfell. But, we bring all the characters together at Winterfell, and they’re all there for a while before they start to go their separate ways ... .But, the Starks are the centre of the book and, to a lesser extent, the Lannisters. They are still the major players.

Collider: When you went into this, did you intentionally take the children, put them in an adult setting and force them to be in very adult and complex situations?

GRRM: Yeah, the children were always at the heart of this. The Stark children, in particular, were always very central. Bran is the first viewpoint character that we meet, and then we meet Jon and Sansa and Arya and the rest of them. It was always my intention to do that.”

Collider report.

May 2016 - Balticon.

(…) George said he was “pissed” that the outline was posted in the office building and that someone took photos and shared them. He said it was a letter for him and the publisher only. He was very firm when telling this and it showed on his face.

He then said that he is not good with writing outlines, making book deadlines, and that often in outlines he was “making shit up”, and “characters changed along the way”.

He went straight from talking about the references in the actual books, to the “differences” in the outline from then to now. He did say that he still knows who sits the iron throne and the end game of the main 5, but also included Sansa, but did not give any details (for obvious reasons).

[question if he is still going with the 1991 ending]

“Yes, I mean, I did partly joke when I said I don’t know where I was going. I know the broad strokes, and I’ve known the broad strokes since 1991. I know who’s going to be on the Iron Throne. I know who’s gonna win some of the battles, I know the major characters, who’s gonna die and how they’re gonna die, and who’s gonna get married and all that. The major characters.

….

“So a lot of the minor characters I’m still discovering along the way. But the mains-”

[question if he knows Arya’s and Jon’s fates]

“Tyrion, Arya, Jon, Sansa, you know, all of the Stark kids, and the major Lannisters, yeah.”

Balticon report:

“Ah, how innocent I was… little did that guy in the picture imagine that he would be spending most of the next two decades in the Seven Kingdoms of Westeros with Tyrion, Daenerys, Arya, Sansa, Jon Snow, Bran, and all the rest.”

GRRM's live journal:

So Sansa has clearly developed into an important character from GRRM’s words, and the key-characters argument can cease, because It’s very tiring to dispel that when the characters and story took on a life of its own. (I mean, Jaime was meant to remain a villain, but he was clearly given somewhat of a redemption arc in the main series).

I paraphrased what was written here for this whole section, so go check out the longer post!

The Aria in the original outline:

*NOTE: I am blacking out her actual names in case the wrong people find this post. None of this anti her, please keep that in mind.*

Five central characters will make it through all three volumes, [...] The five key players are Tyrion Lannister, D@enerys Targaryen, and three of the children of Winterfell, Aria, Bran, and the bastard Jon Snow.

Joffrey will not be sympathetic and Ned [what appears to say] will be accused of treason, but before he is taken he will help his wife and his daughter Aria escape back to Winterfell.

Tyrion Lannister, meanwhile, will befriend both Sansa and her sister Aria, while growing more and more disenchanted with his own family.

When Winterfell burns, Catelyn Stark will be forced to flee north with her son Bran and her daughter Aria. Wounded by Lannister riders, they will seek refuge at the Wall, but the men of the Night's Watch give up their families when they take the black, and Jon and Benjen will not be able to help, to Jon's anguish. It will lead to a bitter estrangement between Jon and Bran.

Aria will be more forgiving ... until she realises, with terror, that she has fallen in love with Jon, who is not only her half-brother but a man of the Night's Watch, sworn to celibacy. Their passion will continue to torment Jon and Aria throughout the trilogy, until the secret of Jon's true parentage is finally revealed in the last book.

Abandoned by the Night's Watch, Catelyn and her children will find their only hope of safety lies even further north, beyond the Wall, where they fall into the hands of Mance Rayder, the King-beyond-the-Wall, and get a dreadful glimpse of the inhuman others as they attack the wilding encampment. Bran's magic, Aria's sword Needle, and the savagery of their direwolves will help them survive, but their mother Catelyn will die at the hands of the others.

Exiled, Tyrion will change sides, making common cause with the surviving Starks to bring his brother down, and falling helplessly in love with Aria Stark while he's at it. His passion is, alas, unreciprocated, but no less intense for that, and it will lead to a deadly rivalry between Tyrion and Jon Snow

Observations:

Exactly how old is Aria? Is she a warrior princess who cries at songs like her aunt? Does she enjoy/yearn for romance? Is she a stunningly beautiful maiden rivalling that of Cersei? How close were she and Jon? Did they have a good sibling relationship? Or were they distant? Does she look physically different to Jon? Does she have red hair?

The Sansa of the Original Outline:

‘Each of the contending families will learn it has a member of dubious loyalty in its midst. Sansa Stark, wed to Joffrey Baratheon, will bear him a son, the heir to the throne, and when the crunch comes she will choose her husband and child over her parents and siblings, a choice she will later bitterly rue.’

Tyrion Lannister, meanwhile, will befriend both Sansa and her sister Aria, while growing more and more disenchanted with his own family.

Jaime Lannister will follow Joffrey on the throne of the Seven Kingdoms, by the simple expedient of killing everyone ahead of him in the line of succession and blaming his brother Tyrion for the murders.

More observations:

How old is Sansa? Is she 16? 17? She’s conveyed as a less important character in this outline - why? Queen of the Seven Kingdoms? She dies? Jaime kills her? What is her relationship with Aria like? Are/were they close? Or was Sansa initially meant to be a two-tone villain who betrayed her family? Is she overwhelmingly beautiful? Or is she the plainer sister?

It’s quite clear that both ASOIAF Aria and ASOIAF Sansa are entirely different characters to their outlined counterparts.

In the outline, Tyrion sacks and burns Winterfell. In ASOIAF, It’s Theon and later Ramsay who does this. In the outline, it’s Bran, Aria, and Catelyn who go beyond the Wall. In ASOIAF, it’s Bran, Meera, and Jojen (and Hodor). There are a couple of other changes made here, but there seems a pattern where certain acts *still* occur in the main series, they’re just given to different characters (which makes sense, as GRRM grows organically with his characters.)

So, when we take into account the fact of ASOIAF Sansa being considered a main/key character, her marriage to Tyrion, and the possibility of her being the first to reunite with Jon - perhaps GRRM did keep a Stark x Snow romance - but gave it to a different sister.

In the 2016 Balticon report, GRRM stated he wished that ‘some past things didn’t have such strong foreshadowing and that newer things had stronger foreshadowing.’ You can make a case for J0nrya foreshadowing in the first book, but I’d argue that ACOK/ASOS is where the Jon/Sansa clues and foreshadowing is rife. (and there are certainly Jon/Sansa clues in the first book as well.)

Now to circle back. The Aria of this outline doesn’t have a personality - none of the characters do, really. We don’t know how old she is. Is she a teenager? Is she close in age to Jon? We know she has her needle, so can infer she is a fighter and spirited, but is there a soft romantic side to her? Does she cry at songs like her aunt Lyanna? Does she yearn for love? Is she immensely beautiful? For a narrative like this? It'd be likely if Jon and Tyrion are fighting to the death over her, sort of like gallant knights fighting each other to win the heart of a fair maiden (very romantic and idealistic, mirroring the songs and the stories).

(This is how I am certainly inferring such a scene would have gone).

The ASOIAF Aria we know and love took on a life of her own. She’s described as plain looking (some envision her to be more beautiful than characters like D@ny, Cersei, and Sansa though). - But just quickly on that matter, Aria is indeed compared to Lyanna in looks and spirit, though Lyanna’s beauty was described as wild and implied as non-conventional; different perspectives have different opinions on her. For example, Cersei, Jaime, Devan, the Maester who wrote the WOIAF don’t consider her anything special. Whereas Ned, Robert, and Rhaegar do. So it’s one of those instances where you aren’t exactly sure. In any case, Aria's looks aren't a driving factor in her arc, and I don’t see ASOIAF Tyrion (as creepy as he is) suddenly falling in love with her due to mere attraction because presently, Aria is all knobbly knees and elbows, stick thin, a child, not a maiden, who will still be a pre-teen at the end of the series, if there is no massive time jump.

SHE'S JUST A BABY.

But then, Tyrion did lust after Sansa, so there’s that… however ….

Sansa’s beauty is a driving force in her narrative arc. She is objectified for her beauty. Preyed upon because of her beauty; in many ways it causes her to suffer. It’s largely why LF is grossly infatuated with her - she’s beautiful like Catelyn. Tyrion is attracted to Sansa and wishes to bed her, the H0und intends to rape her during the Blackwater battle, he also comments on her breasts growing, Joffrey sexually humiliates her in court, Ser Dontos has a pervy infatuation with her, Cersei despises Sansa because she is younger, more beautiful etc which she views as a threat.

So, beauty is pertinent to Sansa’s narrative, and it isn’t vain or shallow to say so because it’s a large part as to why she suffers. And her physical beauty is meant to compliment her indulgence in romantic idealism; knights, chivalry, courtly love, beautiful appearances thus equating to good people. It also contributes to perceptions of Sansa; nothing more than a pretty, stupid girl with naive dreams.

So back to ASOIAF Aria: Her arc largely surrounds nature & nature, mercy, war trauma and survival, friendship, belonging, and family. For the majority of the story, she is a traumatised 10 year old travelling through a war torn country, witness to awful horrors, forced to assume multiple identities, until she goes to Braavos and begins her faceless man arc. But this is obviously not her endgame - she is going to go home eventually, that is quite clear.

You can argue she had a little crush on Gendry (as a 10 year old would) (and perhaps something may happen with him when she is older, I think GRRM has played with it.) But other than that, romance is not a central part of Aria's arc insofar. For outline Aria it was, but current ASOIAF Aria is on a completely different tangent all together.

(and that poor poor child is suffering immensely while this is all occurring). Currently, she has no time for/interest in it. She hasn’t been involved in betrothals/marriages, or had men lusting after her (save ‘Mercy’ and people men making brutalising sexual comments towards her). She disguises herself as a boy for a good chunk of the story as it is safer to travel.

No, I’m not trying to reduce any sexual trauma/objectification she suffers, she’s a little girl for heaven’s sake - I’m merely stating that what she is going through is in some ways similar and different to what Sansa is going through. (Who currently is in a in a very Lolita type situation with LF and men sexually intimidating/abusing her has been a key part of her arc - as I said, she suffers significantly due to her beauty. She is something to possess, she isn't real or tangible, she is a beautiful maid with a vast claim to the North.)

Anyway, ASOIAF Aria finds songs and romance ‘stupid.’

“Sansa would have shed a tear for true love, but Arya just thought it was stupid.” (Arya VIII ASOS)

(but that doesn’t mean she won’t encounter it later in life, it just means that at this point of the story, she isn’t interested/likely won't encounter some epic grand romance that outline Aria was likely destined for. (And she’s 11 for god’s sake!).

‘But Sansa was dreaming of love at that age!’

Sansa has been a romantic idealistic dreamer since she was a little girl. She adored those stories and is the literal embodiment of the mediaeval pre-raphaelite maiden depicted in art. It’s central to her story arc, to her qualities, and how she functions/copes with things around her. “Life is not a song.” Is so fundamental to that.

So to reiterate ASOIAF Aria is a completely different character to outline Aria- for all we know OG Aria was 15 years old, very beautiful to the point of men duelling over her, (just as depicted in art above) likely a romantic heroine, had consistent memory lapses that would cause her to “realise in terror, she had fallen for Jon,” and based off of GRRM’s past works - was probably a redhead.

“But OG Aria has a sword named needle!”

Indeed, but as I stated, we don’t know anything else about her beyond that. Many have theorised that D@ny and Jon are the epic romance of the series, but it’s clear from this particular outline that GRRM intended for it to be Aria and Jon as the epic major romance of the series. That would mean Aria would have to be a somewhat romantically-inclined character, for this development to appear natural and not forced. Based on her current ASOIAF arc, it doesn’t track for her character to make a sudden 180. Her softness and vulnerable moments come from thinking of her family and home. Insofar, this isn’t equated to yearning for love, romance, children, as Sansa has done from the beginning of the series.

Now, we know GRRM is a self-proclaimed romantic, and ASOIAF Sansa exists very much as a deconstruction of romanticism.

“He said he is a romantic, in the classical sense. He said the trouble with being a romantic is that from a very early age you keep having your face smashed into the harshness of reality. That things aren’t always fair, bad things happen to good people, etc. he said it’s a realistic world, so romantics are burned quite often. This theme of romantic idealism conflicting with harsh reality is something he finds very dramatic and compelling, and he weaves it into his work.” (2005 interview).

Sansa is arguably, the embodiment of this dismantling. But that doesn’t necessarily mean that love isn’t real, or that it doesn’t deserve to exist in a gritty world such as Westeros. There were many couples who had good, happy marriages, even after war and loss and trauma. For example, apart from the Jon Snow situation, Ned and Catelyn had a remarkably healthy relationship. So it is possible - the takeaway from the series is not that hoping is meaningless, dreams are meaningless, love is meaningless. More so that it is complicated, and it must coexist alongside all the chaos in order to achieve a sort of

equilibrium. A literal ‘Dream of Spring’ a hope for happiness, rather than happiness itself. It tracks with the bittersweet conclusion to the series ; it is a grimdark story, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it’ll be a grimdark ending where everyone good and noble dies and wishes/dreams/innate desires remain unfulfilled.

In fact, I argue that a lot of them will come true - but at what cost? It’ll be at the cost of loss and grief, of suffering upon suffering, but what’s inherently more powerful, what’s more subversive is having those characters persist and rebuild, regenerate, create a new world where love and chaos undoubtedly exist alongside each other, but just because there is chaos, that does not mean the love is miniscule or cancels out entirely.

Because if all these characters have the most unsatisfying, awful conclusions known to man, well - what was the point of everything? What was the point of their journeys? This isn’t a nihilistic story, and it won’t have a nihilistic ending like everyone assumes. It’s far more difficult for an author to craft such an ending, balancing things out whilst acknowledging all the loss and still holding out hope for a better future to come. That brighter days will arrive. That winter will end, and spring will be on the horizon.

“We may lose our heads, it’s true. But what if we prevail?” (Davos I ADWD).

And that right there, sums it up perfectly.

So you need characters like Sansa, characters like Brienne, D@ny, (you know what let’s just add all the Stark children of the series to the list, because every single character arc is about remaining resilient and prevailing in some way or another).

But it’s Sansa who exists as the meta character that embodies/indulges in all those romantic ideals that GRRM is intent on exploring - it thus makes perfect sense for it to be her that experiences the romance arc. Many people think she’ll end up with the H0und, or Harry the douchebag, because it’s a part of her growing up, maturing, learning from her negative biases etc etc but she shouldn’t have to be with abusive or douchy men to learn that. She’s already learned and suffered enough.

“It is my claim they want. No one will ever marry me for love.”

And how utterly heartbreaking that she has resigned to think this, with her arc only mid-way. But importantly, just a few chapters later she enters the garden of undisputed beauty and equates the snow landing on her face with romantic kisses, she dreams of innocence and winterfell, despite lamenting how she doesn’t belong in such a pure world, she steps out into it all the same. And she builds her home in the snow, content and for once - she’s the child she is, the child she is yearning to be.

So Sansa falling in love with Jon makes sense on a characteristic level. It’s something she never would have considered as a sheltered child, not just because he’s her bastard half brother but because he just didn’t exist in her idea of how the world works. He didn’t fit in with her idea of knights, and courtly love and chivalry. He wasn’t a gallant golden prince, he was dark, sulky and brooding. He existed on the parameters of her life, and she was comfortable with that distant association - but she still loved him, and he her.

Falling in love with Jon would equate to a dismantling of these previous prejudices she held; he’s utterly unconventional, the opposite of what she has shown attraction to (despite her first ‘love’ being Waymar Royce, who resembles Jon strikingly). The man she never really considered beyond courtesy and some scarce, fond memories - to be the one who restores her faith in men, in love, in dreams.

“Realising with terror that she has fallen in love with Jon… their passion will continue to torment them.”

tracks with Sansa’s characterisation particularly, her memory lapses, her clouded judgement, and inability to interpret things correctly (and something as confusing as this would certainly cause her to have some cognitive dissonance going on).

Not to mention caution around well… men. Because who would ever marry her for love? Who would ever take her for true? Love her without expectations and judgement? It’s Jon. Who has been there since the very beginning, who has been a silent unconscious hero, the answer to her prayers, who embodies all those romantic and knightly ideals she has so desperately wanted - despite her being unaware. Who has advocated for her claim - above everyone else.

“No one will ever marry me for love.” And that infamous Jon chapter follows. Jon who is never quite far from Sansa’s suitors. Jon, who has a similar dream of rebuilding Winterfell, of having children named after lost siblings, who wants to woo a girl by giving her a rose and loving beneath the heart tree - the heart of Winterfell. Who would undeniably want to have that beautiful soul-nourishing love he never received as a child, that he believes is perpetually unavailable to him.

Above all, they just fit together. It fits with GRRM’s William Faulkner-esque “the human heart in conflict with itself".” And this is a perfectly subversive way of encapsulating that Jon confusing brotherly love and affection with romance, struggling with the shame of it all - especially post-resurrection, the religious disillusionment that would occur, the notion of Jon being loved by the kind of girl he believed he never had the right to, who his deeply romantic heart is yearned for. (There is a reason GRRM let us know how badly Jon yearns for domesticity, Winterfell love, children, and a wife. He associates his love for Ygritte with her singing, her hair, her smile. He dreams of her tending to him with gentle hands) The simple yet meaningful things that have been denied to him because of his bastardry. And god, what better way to torment these two than by having them fall for each other - realising they fit each other so perfectly, yet tormented by their familial relation. Until, as the outline puts, the parentage is revealed.

Do I believe they will act on their feelings pre-parentage reveal? No. It’ll likely exist in the subtext, in private thoughts and actions. Angst, guilt. Again, the stuff that GRRM loves - the human heart is in conflict with itself.

Much like Lord Byron’s ‘The Bride of Abydos.” Where half-siblings fall in love with each other until they realise they are actually cousins. Lord Byron, who was famously in love with his half sister Augusta, who was a stranger to him for a good portion of his life until they properly got to know each other and fell in love. (Who does that sound like?’)

And if you’re wondering how Jon and Sansa could possibly connect to Lord Byron, well there is a ‘Byron the Beautiful’ in Alayne II AFFC, and Alayne I TWOW. GRRM has further instilled characters by the name of “Manfred” which is in reference to Lord Byron’s infamous work of the same name. (I urge you to check out all of Cappy's Byron metas, they are fantastic.

And, Jon has been called a “Brooding, Byronic, romantic heroine whom all the girls love.” GRRM knows what Byronic is inferring - he isn’t daft, he’s a writer - he reads other works and takes influence and sprinkles in so many things.

A Byronic character involves:

. . romantic melancholy, guilt for secret sin, pride, defiance, restlessness, alienation, revenge, remorse, moodiness, and such noble virtues as honor, altruism, courage, and pure love for a gentle woman. (Poetry Foundation, Lord Byron)

“GRRM: I was always intensely Romantic, even when I was too young to understand what that meant. But Romanticism has its dark side, as any Romantic soon discovers… which is where the melancholy comes in, I suppose. I don’t know if this is a matter of artistic influences so much as it is of temperament. But there’s always been something in the twilight that moves me, and a sunset speaks to me in a way that no sunrise ever has.”

Infinity plus:

And isn’t that exactly what he would be exploring with Jon and Sansa? It isn’t a conventional romance by any means. It could never exist normally until Jon’s parentage is revealed. And that is the tormented nature of it, that is the “bittersweetness” of it - it is rooted in realism, yes - and that to me, is Sansa receiving her true love, countering that no one would ever marry her for love. The gods will grant it to her, - but it’s wrapped up in this darker, morally ambiguous thing that is confusing for her, even though Jon would be her dream come true - he isn’t this neat little courtly golden package, but he embodies all those ideals more than any man she’s actually met.

It’s subversive to what both the characters and the readers expect, and it’s just a brilliant plot twist that screams unpredictability whilst fitting together like a perfect puzzle. It creates internal conflict and evokes those themes that GRRM loves to explore. By giving the ‘heroes’ of the series a motif such as incest is extremely bold; because it challenges the reader greatly. Some people don’t want Jon to end up with Sansa because it contradicts the image that they have of him in his head - the heroic male who will save the world with his heroic counterpart and together they shall rule the seven kingdoms. To embrace his father’s family, claim a dragon, fulfil the prophecy, be the third head of the dragon, reject his stark-ness. Very predictable. Done to death a thousand times over, and yet - it is what the general audience wants/expects. It’s what the dudebros who call him the ‘GOAT’ want, it’s what the Targ stans want, it’s what the show watchers wanted - but what does Jon want?

“Yet he could not let the wildlings breach the Wall, to threaten Winterfell and the north, the barrowlands and the Rills, White Harbor and the Stony Shore, even the Neck. For eight thousand years the men of House Stark had lived and died to protect their people against such ravagers and reavers . . . and bastard-born or no, the same blood ran in his veins. Bran and Rickon are still at Winterfell besides. Maester Luwin, Ser Rodrik, Old Nan, Farlen the kennelmaster, Mikken at his forge and Gage by his ovens . . . everyone I ever knew, everyone I ever loved.” (Jon II ASOS).

“I would need to steal her if I wanted her love, but she might give me children. I might someday hold a son of my own blood in my arms. A son was something Jon Snow had never dared dream of, since he decided to live his life on the Wall. I could name him Robb. Val would want to keep her sister's son, but we could foster him at Winterfell, and Gilly's boy as well. Sam would never need to tell his lie. We'd find a place for Gilly too, and Sam could come visit her once a year or so. Mance's son and Craster's would grow up brothers, as I once did with Robb.

"He wanted it, Jon knew then. He wanted it as much as he had ever wanted anything. I have always wanted it, he thought, guiltily. May the gods forgive me. It was a hunger inside him, sharp as a dragonglass blade.” (Jon XII ASOS).

“Red eyes, Jon realised, but not like Melisandre's. He had a weirwood's eyes. Red eyes, red mouth, white fur. Blood and bone, like a heart tree. He belongs to the old gods, this one. And he alone of all the direwolves was white. Six pups they'd found in the late summer snows, him and Robb; five that were grey and black and brown, for the five Starks, and one white, as white as Snow.”

He had his answer then." (Jon XII ASOS)

“He was the blood of Winterfell, a man of the Night's Watch. I will not father a bastard, he told her. I will not. I will not. "You know nothing, Jon Snow," she whispered.” (Jon VI ASOS)

“Ygritte answered for him. "His name is Jon Snow. He is Eddard Stark's blood, of Winterfell." (Jon VIII ACOK)

"Then you must do what needs be done," Qhorin Halfhand said. "You are the blood of Winterfell and a man of the Night's Watch." (Jon VI ASOS).

“You can't be the Lord of Winterfell, you're bastard-born, he heard Robb say again. And the stone kings were growling at him with granite tongues. You do not belong here. This is not your place. When Jon closed his eyes he saw the heart tree, with its pale limbs, red leaves, and solemn face. The weirwood was the heart of Winterfell, Lord Eddard always said . . . but to save the castle Jon would have to tear that heart up by its ancient roots, and feed it to the red woman's hungry fire god. I have no right, he thought. Winterfell belongs to the old gods.” (Jon XII ASOS)

“He sat on the bench and buried his head in his hands. Why am I so angry? he asked himself, but it was a stupid question. Lord of Winterfell. I could be the Lord of Winterfell. My father's heir.” (Jon XII ASOS).

“If I could show her Winterfell . . . give her a flower from the glass gardens, feast her in the Great Hall, and show her the stone kings on their thrones. We could bathe in the hot pools, and love beneath the heart tree while the old gods watched over us.” (Jon V ASOS).

“If he must perish, let it be with a sword in his hand, fighting his father's killers. He was no true Stark, had never been one … but he could die like one. Let them say that Eddard Stark had fathered four sons, not three.” (Jon IX AGOT).

Look, at the end of the day - we don't know how the story will go, but based off of Jon’s character arc? His thoughts? His actions? His relationships with his siblings? The fact that he has warged into a magical beast directly associated with Starks? The North? The Old Gods? The weir wood trees? I think that instead of GRRM having Jon go down the conventional disadvantaged male hero finding out he is a secret prince and thus becoming King and a proper Targ, GRRM will subvert expectations (much to audience displeasure) and do the opposite.

Learning of his true identity will just cause more angst and a major identity crisis. The one thing Jon finds real and solid, that no one can take from him - is that he is Ned Stark’s son. He raised him. Perhaps they don’t share a direct blood link. But that doesn’t matter, what matters is that he was raised by him, loved by him. So instead of choosing his father’s family; embracing the secret prince persona and fighting for the throne - he’ll choose his mother’s family. And I think that is beautifully conclusive.

But back to Jon and Sansa. GRRM is given the opportunity to explore the sort of impact this incest motif has on fundamentally good people. And I think this is what he originally intended to do with Jon and Aria.

Yes, we have Jaime and Cersei, but this is real sibling incest and rife with toxic narcissism, possession etc. We have the T@rgaryens, which are messy beyond belief and practice it due to blood purity.

But Jon and Sansa clearly differ from the rest, and that is because they exist partly as foils as to what we previously have seen. Similar to Jonnel x Sansa. By intentionally refraining from the development of a properly-close sibling relationship, making Jon and Sansa fundamental opposites visually, and associating them with entirely different cultures (yet writing their core personas as the same, their dreams compatible, their thought process and idealism similar).

GRRM manages to pave the way into such a romance that comes as a shock to the characters, the narrative, and readers themselves. Because no one, absolutely no one would see it coming, and the people who have been privy to the theory - immediately dismiss it - and become quite angry when it is brought up. Like I said earlier, a knee-jerk reaction.

To quote this brilliant meta right here:

‘Whether Jon and Sansa fall in love is up to the author and his intended exploration of literary/mythic themes that his predecessors have deployed. He is not writing from (or for) the moral values of show watchers and book readers, or their anecdotal hopes for how things “should be.” He’s writing a narrative that breaks away from conventional storytelling and what we expect from such characters.’

…

‘ I don’t believe the author is giving up completely on the romantic dream. He has made Sansa more cautious, converted her dreams into mere prayers, and has forced her to examine her assumptions, but he’s not turning her into the H0und, who is too pessimistic and fatalistic as a suitor. Sandor’s assertion that all knights are killers makes fantasy so small, it’s eliminated. I think he is setting Sansa on a path where her dreams do die, and her life becomes about as romantic as that smokestack in Cleveland - until they start to come alive again when she travels North to the Wall.’

'That cold, hard reality is still present in the fact that they are brother and sister, but once Jon’s parentage is revealed, this will change. Like an inverted Cinderella (clock striking 12), the reality will become fantasy again. But it’s still inladen with this bitter reality of their relations. So taking this into account, I believe Jon and Sansa could happen because there is no other couple in the series with which GRRM can explore his fascination with fantasy becoming “smaller,” but not completely shrinking altogether. There are no two better characters who represent these ideas, who have the same quietly domestic desires - who do not (at the moment) actively lust for power and cause it to blind them.'

So in essence, Jon and Sansa exist as the subversion of romance. In a twisted, loving sort of way that is morally conflicting to the characters and audiences (for a time). That has existed between the lines, subtly and implicitly. That the audience gives absolutely no thought, because why would they? And if they do, they are abhorred by it - but I’d argue this is the entire point. But not for the reasons you think, not because of the incest - or J0nerys would disgust them.

From the moment he started the series, GRRM has employed incest as a major motif that impacts both the narrative and the characters - the causes the war, that contributes to T@rgaryen values, legacy etc, that propels aspects of narcissism and vitriol for characters like Cersei. It’s really really interesting stuff, as uncomfortable as it is - there are no other works that explore it so messily and beautifully with such nuance.

I believe people seriously underestimate GRRM’s use of omission and subtext. Seriously, just because something is not explicitly stated, doesn’t mean it isn’t there. Unfortunately fans have such a surface level reading of the text, that they are unable to peel back the layers and get to its core. They don’t consider literary influences, or art, or the Romantic movement or anything. They claim they want a complex story that is subversive, yet they cheer for the three-headed dragon theory and all the most predictable plot points that have been absolutely done to death. But then they turn up their noses at anything that goes against the grain, or insinuates otherwise.

R + L = J is a great example of existence within the subtext, yet nobody denies that it is there. No one is called crazy or delusional for it. Ned never thinks of Jon’s true parentage despite harbouring that secret for years, because it is buried deep in his subconscious.

And much to the audience’s surprise (and dismay I'm sure) that is how Jon and Sansa will manifest. This is the human heart in conflict with Jon and Sansa, but not just them - the readers as well. It’s pointing to us, asking us how we’ll possibly handle it. We’re meant to feel this conflict of emotions - anguish and torment and yet hope for something ineffable - just like the characters.

To be able to evoke that as a writer is one of the most impressive feats I can think of - and for the majority of it to exist at this point, in a subconscious limbo? How utterly complex and painful and raw and intelligent but oh so very brilliant. Perhaps one of the most compelling things to come out of this entire series, if only the general audience was open to such discussions. But alas, we must contend with the community we have, and hope for a dream of spring to come upon us.

#jonsa #jon x sansa #meta #anti asoiaf fandom #jonsa meta #long post #lord byron #incest motif #original outline #literary subversion #sansa stark #jon snow

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lover-of-mine · 6 months ago

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https://www.tumblr.com/lemotmo/755374254590246912/can-we-take-a-minute-to-talk-about-how-todays-bts

This is spot on. The BT fandom has worked so hard to completely try and twist the narrative 9-1-1 has put forward. I’m not surprised Oliver is blocking people and not promoting the ship because there isn’t anything worth promoting and if I were him or a showrunner I would also be annoyed that a small amount of fans are trying to hijack a storyline. BT fans act like the general audience loves Tommy when I genuinely think the general audience just does not care one way or another about Tommy. Because the show has not given any reason to care about him. The only people that care so strongly (either liking or disliking him) are fandom people online who are stuck in discourse. That is not the majority of viewers. We’re going into season 8 - we don’t have a guarantee of how many seasons are left. Now that they’ve moved networks and we’re given the green light they’re going to focus on the storyline that wraps up their main characters arcs in the most satisfying way (which based on everything we’ve seen in this show is Buddie) not trying to start from scratch for both Buck and Eddie with new relationships. And if they DID want to pair Buck and Eddie with other people they would’ve actually tried to develop Buck and Tommy in season 7 and they very purposefully didn’t.

clickable link for the post because it's very spot on

The thing with the cameos is that it turned a narrative that was supposed to be about Buck and turned it into a narrative about Buck and Tommy. There is nothing in canon that backs up the idea that Tommy is anything other than just some guy. The show didn't restart at season 7 and if they wanted to make Buck and Tommy something with a fighting chance, Tommy would've existed in the narrative beyond the coming out plotline. Taylor's storyline was complete with beef with lafd personnel and a canon tragic backstory. If they wanted to make people care about Tommy they would've. They made it with Taylor with 4 episodes. You want me to believe they couldn't do it with Tommy after 6? Lou was putting out headcanon after headcanon and people took that as gospel as if he was reading scripts and had input from writers when Lou said in an interview that they didn't even tell him what label Tommy was supposed to have when they filmed the kiss. The show created a very clear narrative that shows that the relationship is not that serious. And if we are taking word of god as canon, Tim said that it's a "level entry relationship" and used the word "first fling" multiple times. First implies a second and fling is as unserious as it can get. The actual show is saying something, the creator of the show is saying the same thing. But sure, the actor they are paying and prompting has more say than the actual source material 🙄🙄. This story is about making Buck bi. Nothing else. If they wanted to make this be a Buck finally found his person, they would've developed Tommy into someone who's at least a little bit likeable, not continuously make him look worse every time he opens his mouth. If Oliver really is frustrated with this and blocking people because people hijacked the storyline he's telling, he has every right to be. He wanted to tell a nice story about Buck being bi and now he's caught having to dodge people who want him to walk up to the creators and say they have to marry Buck and Tommy by 802 or else he walks, when he clearly just wanted it to be about Buck's identity. Somehow Buck got pushed to the background of his own story by this very loud group of people while being aided by an actor who's creating a pr nightmare. The story is about Buck exploring bisexuality not about Buck falling in love with Tommy and it's painfully clear. The fact that people can't see it because someone paid a dude 100 and something dollars to say they are "thriving" is madness and shows the lack of basic media literacy.

#911 #i really need a tag for asks #anon 😌#anti bucktommy #spy network

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latteenightss · 2 months ago

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Hii! Just another rant about obx. I wanna share my predictions about season 5 and what I think they’re gonna do

Chase Stokes (John B) mentioned that season 5 will be their best one, which it could be but I think for a lot of viewers just the fact that JJ won’t be there at all might ruin the season if yk what I mean.

And now to my predictions

1. I think season 5 will be Kiara’s season, with the way season 4 ended it’s obvious she’s gonna lash out and go through a lot. She’s gonna need to deal with grief and her revenge era might be a bit brutal 😊

Also maybe she will be somehow related to the treasure? Or just connected slightly. Like season 1 we had John B, season 2 it was Pope. Season 3 now- idk I guess Sarah but Kie also had a bigger role, like when that dude kidnapped her and then she got sent off to that camp but that’s it, then her plot line was about Jiara, and season 4 was obv JJ.

And since we’re talking about JJ, y’all.. ik it’s hard but he’s not coming back 😭 obx is not supernatural, a wish won’t bring him back to life. Like I don’t think JJ will crawl out of sand.

I generally love the idea of Kie finally having her main character moments and just making her more important to the story.

2. We will get Riara. And I definitely don’t mean that in a romantic way because that’s not happening! Madison (the actress of Kie) hates Riara 😭 but I think we will see them as duo and just get more of those tension scenes that we got so far. I feel like that might be a way the writers will try to “replace” Jiara. Jiara was a huge ad for the show and lately so has been Riara.

I feel like almost eveyone loves the tension between those two and the writers know that. Also Rafe breaking up with Sofia- yea they’re definitely building up to some sort of storyline with Kiara and Rafe. The amount of people obsessed with Riara is insane and obv they have to give us something so..

Riara s5 is pretty much guaranteed.

3. I wanna talk about Sarah and John B- obviously a huge plot line will be their child. I don’t know if the child will be born at the end or during season 5. How I see it, I’m leaning more toward the end but we’ll see.

There’s not much else that can really happen with them. John b will also be in a revenge era since his best friend was killed and Sarah will definitely get closer with Rafe, that hug they shared was so cute and needed but otherwise I really don’t know! I doubt they’ll kill them off. I was thinking that the way John B narrates obx maybe that’s him in the future telling his child about their story? That would make sense honestly.

4. Pope and Cleo umm so. I honestly am not as interested in their story line and it’s interesting because I have no idea what they will do with them.

I think Pope might be kind of more cold in season 5- as we know he shot a person right in the head, and he was so scared about that. Also he lost JJ- his best friend and they want to send him to the military. Dude is not doing the best! 💀

Cleo.. I don’t know she’s such a complicated character, she went through a lot in her life but I doubt they’ll really expand her character in season 5.

5. Rafe!!!! His character development this season was insane. In my opinion he should stick with the pogues but I wouldn’t be surprised if he somehow betrayed them. That’s Rafe- he’s not a good person but I wouldn’t say he’s necessarily bad..

Like I already said in obx 5 there will be Rafe and Kie duo, and more of Sarah and Rafe for sure. But maybe he will connect with the other pogues too.

I just don’t want the development to be thrown away, I hope they make him stick with the pogues.

6. And now finally the ending/possible deaths.

The characters who in my opinions are most in danger are: Kiara and Rafe

Especially Kiara.. here’s the thing, since JJ is dead and she already went through the whole group 😭 what can her ending actually be? Like ok she could just end up alone with her friends, her family but in my opinion her death would make sense. She would be with JJ and I think in general it is a good end for her.

Rafe like i mentioned is a complicated character, it would be so easy for the writers to just kill him off at the end. But I would be honestly so mad!!! Like no JJ and no Rafe 😭. Yeah I don’t want them to do that but at the same time, I think there’s definitely a possibility.

Sarah and John B definitely safe in my opinion.

Cleo and Pope- now I don’t know, I think they’re safe. Maybe Cleo.. but still I don’t think so.

Groff- definitely done for! ❤️ I hope Kiara tortures him to death 🥰

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breathe-2am · 9 months ago

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hey idk how to tell u this but the big cliffhanger in s1 isn’t the crew being separated it’s stede going out to find ed when ed has fallen so deep into heartbreak and self-loathing that he’s destroyed stede’s ship and split up their crew. the cliffhanger is about “how will ed and stede fix their relationship after stede broke ed’s heart and ed went off the deep end?”

bc what’s going on with the crew is not the main storyline. the main storyline is the romance between ed and stede, djenks has said this many times. the main plotline is the development of ed and stede’s relationship. the show didn’t “shove most of the characters into 1 minute scenes between much longer gentlebeard arcs” in 2.04, the crew was just part of the B plot that episode, which is to be expected because they are all side characters who are always in B or C plots if they’re not part of the plot with the main characters (ed and stede). the main A plot of 2.04 is ed and stede making up now that they’ve finally been reunited, and the show develops this storyline in a rewrite/adaptation/homage to the play who’s afraid of virginia woolfe.

it’s fine if u don’t like gentlebeard or if your main enjoyment from the show is izzy/the crew, but if that’s the case for you then unfortunately you’re always have a harder time enjoying ofmd bc the writing in the show is always going to prioritize gentlebeard over the other characters. the crew reuniting was always going to be much less important than ed and stede reuniting and making up. that’s what david jenkins meant when he said “the show is the relationship.”

Heyo! I see my meme has breached the side of ofmd tumblr I usually interact with, which is really cool! Thanks for stopping by haha

I think your response is so emblematic of the shift the show went thru from season 1 to season 2- namely, that season 1 was an ensemble show and season 2 was not. Stede was the main character, yes, and he got more backstory and focus than a lot of the crew, but the story of the show in s1 was that it was a bunch of people with conflicting personalities shoved onto a boat together. Stede’s the center, but every other character gets focus as well. This show, by djenks own admission, was not originally intended to be a rom-com romance between stede and ed. He said that he didn’t commit to actually have them be together until filming season 1 episode 6- more than halfway thru the story of the first season, and that it was mainly due to rhys and taika’s acting that made him change it from an unrequited love to a relationship. So while the story is a lot about gentlebeard, saying that every other character is secondary to them and their romance isnt true.

I think a great example to bring up would be season 1 episode 7, the episode that solidifies (via lucius) that yes, this is happening. This is a very relationship heavy episode, but crucially gb isn’t the only focus.

Here's a breakdown: we start w a 1:00 gb scene, then roach comes in asking about the oranges, which leads to a 2:00 scene w the whole crew that sets up the episodes plot (swede has scurvy, we need to get more oranges). Jim protests going to st augustine, which is followed by a 1:00 scene between jim and olu, including a jim flashback. Stede and lucius return with the treasure map, there’s 1:30 more of the whole crew, then we go into the captains cabin for 1:00 of stede, ed, and lucius. 6 minutes into the ep flashes to the crew on land, a 0:50 conversation between jim and olu, then 2:00 of the whole crew, ending then nana invites them all to eat some cake at 8:15. We then go to stede, lucius, and ed in the marketplace until the 9 minute mark (abt 0:45), then back to the church where olu and jim talk to nana for 1:15, including more jim flashbacks. Back to the adventure w stede ed and lucius, which is 2 scenes back to back, totally about 3:00 (the “oh my god this is happening” scene). Then back to the church for jim olu and nana, a 1:00 jim flashback inside a 3:00 scene. Then back to the captains and lucius for 1:30, then to jim and olu, more jim flashback, then the a and b plots converge at the 2:30 mark when jim sees stede digging up their tree. Stede, ed, and lucius exit the scene after 1:30, jim and olu have a conversation for another 1:00. We see the crew leaving, then olu and nana talk, which all takes 2:00. Back on the boat, ed and stede become co-captains in a 0:45 scene, then the final 1:30 of the ep is izzy at jackie’s with 1:30 credits

Gentlebeard: 9:00, whole crew: 5:30, Jim and Olu: 11:35, Izzy: 1:30, credits: 1:30

I would say that s1e7 is the most overtly gb episode before the kiss in s1e9. But as you can see, it’s not just gb. There’s a lot of focus on jim, who gets multiple filmed flashbacks, there’s scenes w jim, olu, and nana, there’s scenes of the whole crew together, stede and ed are really only oncscreen together for abt 9 minutes- not even 1 third of the episode. And this is the ep that says directly to the audience “yes, they have a romance building”. I’m not trying to say w this that every member of the crew needs to b given equal screentime, bc that didn’t happen here obv, but everyone is doing something, and the plot is moving forward propelled by more than just the gb relationship.

Now this is very much changed in season 2.

S2e4 starts with 0:20 of stede waking ed up, then 0:45 of stede and the crew, 0:30 of ed and buttons, izzy’s w the unicorn for 1:00. The crew kick ed off the boat in a 1:15 scene. Now at the 2:25 mark we get to the plots splitting. Ed has a 1:15 scene on land, 0:45 is spent talking to a bunny. Stede and buttons find anne and mary’s antique store after 0:45 of walking. The scene in the antique porch is 2:15. Back to the revenge where there’s a 1:00 scene where wee john, roach, and pete talk about how the kraken crew, lucius, and izzy are different, and the kraken crew thinks they’re plotting to kill them. Already we go back to anne and mary’s where theres various conversations for 3:00. We go back to the revenge for a 0:45 scene where the revenge crew scare the kraken crew and lucius by trying to surprise them. Back to land, where anne and stede and mary and ed talk for 2:00. Back to the revenge for a 1:45 scene w the crews, izzy enters at the 1:00 mark and then crawls away. Well that’s that, we go back to the dinner on land for 1:00, then ed storms out and he and stede have a conversation on the couch for 2:15. Anne and mary reenter, followed by a 3:00 argument that ends with anne burning down the house and they don’t kiss for some reason. We have a 0:20 scene of the crew preparing the unicorn leg, izzy is in his room and received the leg in a 0:40 scene, and well it’s been a whole minute on the revenge, time to go back to ed and stede for 1:00, ed and buttons talk end when buttons turns into a seagull after 1:30. Ed and stede talk for 0:30, and then we end w izzy the new unicorn for 0:45. Credits are again 1:30.

Gentlebeard: 19:50, whole crew: 5:05, Izzy: 3:10, credits: 1:30

To illustrate my point, i made some graphs

You don’t even have to think very hard to see the change in distribution of screentime season 1 vs season 2. And i’d argue that this is absolutely to the show’s detriment, because that ensemble cast is given way less time to shine, grow, or even speak. Notice how for the second chart there isn’t a jim and olu section? Yea that’s cause Jim has 10 lines this whole episode, and Olu has 5. Two characters, whose relationship, backstory, and plot takes up more screentime than gentlebeard’s in season 1, have a combined 15 lines between them, only 4 of which are longer than 1 sentence- 2 for jim, 2 for olu, and those lines are two sentences long. god bless us every one.

I get that there’s a large subset of the ofmd fandom that only cares abt ed and stede. I get that that’s how u find enjoyment in the show, and u know what? All the power to u. I’m not saying stop liking the show, stop liking gentlebeard, stop caring abt these characters. I don’t like gentlebeard, but i used to, and i remember really really loving ed and stede and their relationship in season 1. That changed in season 2 because of ed’s abusive actions and stede pivoting from being an independent character to just basically following whatever ed says (but that’s a story for another day).

But let’s be honest with each other, and with ourselves: season 1 was an ensemble show. Season 2 narrowed its focus to gentlebeard, while also making it (for some people) harder to like. That’s why a lot of people (myself included) didn’t like season 2 as much as season 1.

Also, just to focus back in on the original issue, the meme was not about gentlebeard. It was about Anne and Mary. And there is literally no way you can convince me that they were used as well as they could have been, or that they were implemented into the story in a smart, necessary, or even respectful way.

Because i'm a nice person, i made a brand new updated meme just for u, anon!

:-)

#ofmd #our flag means death #ofmd critical #ofmd s2 #ofmd season 2 #ofmd fandom #ofmd meta #asks #thank u for giving me the floor to explain my dumb meme in detail!#i love being right #this is your captain speaking

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headless609 · 14 days ago

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Christmas List on What I Wish for in SP S:27 next year

1.) I want the focus to be with the boys. I know I am not the only fan that is sick of the Tegridy Farms seasons. Randy is cool but not as the main character. I want to see some school drama such as crushes, the cheese touch game, role playing and more. idk I want the kids to act like kids and have fun (while of course having their games be blown out of proportion)

2.) While I am not personally a Style shipper I have noticed that Kyle and Stan have been quite distant in the past seasons. In the End Of Obesity special Kyle rarely interacts w/ Stan, instead focusing purely on Cartman’s health and feelings. In the next season I hope Trey and Matt possibly focus on their friendship . I don’t have a clear opinion on what I want as a solution but I think some ideas would either them becoming friends again or distancing even more ( and the two trying to find new super best friends : Stan with either Tolkien, Kenny or Butters and Kyle with Cartman, Tolkien or Kenny(?) While it would be sad it would be an interesting arc for the season.

3.) I want more of the girls. I love Wendy and the other girls. While I do believe they are a little satirized (due to Matt and Trey both being guys) I do hope we could see more of them as regular 4th grade girls rather then being used as plot point for the boys to be crushing on. Don’t get me wrong, I loved the ep Bebes Boobs Destroy Society, but by just looking at the title you can tell where I am coming from. So, more girls being girls that have stories that don’t always have to link back to a crush on a boy.

4.) OK, this one is is kinda self indulgent but I want to see Cartman be in drag again. I want Bad Irene. Bonus if Bad Irene sings a Lady Gaga song like Bad Romance or Oops I Did It Again by Britney Spears. I love that Cartman canon likes pop music and I want to see more of that in the next season.

5.) Now for this one I have actually read and seen fans have this sick headcannon and I wouldn’t mind it being cannon either. Basically, Liane and Clyde’s dad get together. Then Cartman and Clyde become like brothers. I really like this and I think it would be kewl if they argued on who was the older brother. An alternative is that instead of Clyde, Scott Tenorman starts living with Cartman. The sibling rivalry would be crazy and so funny. I think Trey and Matt could push these two on how far they could go to enact revenge.

6.) This one may seem very random but I want a Liane Cartman backstory. I want to know what made her into the towns biggest wh*r3. She obviously must have had some traumatic event and I kinda want it to be a tragic love story. Maybe her lover was killed and she soon fell into drug abuse and selling her body. How South Park treated her and just how she started getting her redemption arc in the more recent seasons. If we’re to format this as an episode I would want it to be Liane telling Cartman a bedtime story (this is kinda an excuse to see them getting along but whateva it’s cute so idc)

7.) I need more Kenny. PLEASE 🙏 Kenny has been sidelined for SOO LONG! Any story will do: him and butters? Awesome! Him and Cartman? Hell yeah! Him and Karen? AAAAASAAAASAAAHSHSJBEBFJDDJJDEJ PLEASE THEY’RE SO CUTEEE 💗

8.) Sorry for the last one, ok but talking about more focus on character’s, I kinda want a focus on the pets. Y’ know like Sparky, Mr Kitty and Kyle’s Elephant that did it with Cartman’s pig (that ep was … something to say the least) Anyways, I love the pets they are cute and I want more, thank you (and Craig’s Guinea pig Stripes)

9.) Lore drops from characters will be awesome. Like, it dosent just have to be Liane (as I mentioned before) I wouldn’t mind an ep on how Gerald and Sheila fell in love, it would be a really cute nerd x girl boss storyline

10.) …jersey kyle. IDK, Kyle being a brash, loud asshole is straight gold. I need him to snap and start calling everyone muff cabbage (+ jersey kyle meets bad Irene and he falls head over heels… WHO SAID THAT??)

Anyways that’s my list. I actually really hope other people do this trend to cause I wanna see what good ideas or wants y’all want from season 27 >:)

#south park #wish list for SP season 27 #randy marsh #stan marsh #kyle broflovski #eric cartman #kenny mccormick #wendy testaburger #bebe stevens #clyde donovan #scott tenorman #liane cartman #karen mccormick #SP pets #gerald broflovski #sheila broflovski #kyman??

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annes-andromeda · 8 months ago

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Season 2 of HOTD is almost here and oml, every single goddamn thing I’ve seen regarding not just Team Green, but the plot in general, sounds awful.

We got:

Alicent still trying to make peace with Rha*nyra despite the latter not giving two flying fucks about her and Rha*nyra allowing B&C to happen and not punishing Da*mon. And don’t even get me started on the rumors of that supposed peace treaty in the finale🙄

Aemond calling his own mother a fool and addressing her by her FIRST NAME. It was literally established that these two have a strong bond but suddenly it’s thrown down the drain. Granted we green fans expected Aemond and Alicent to drift apart after L*ke’s death but not like this bro. Book!Aemond was cruel and awful, but he would never disrespect his mother like that. I honestly pray we get a scene of Criston defending her.

Everything about Helaena. Just. Everything. Her caught in the made-up King’s Landing riot with Alicent that didn’t happen in the book despite the fact that both her and her mother were stated as being beloved by the people. Supposedly rumors of Helaena having a nightmare about Da*mon having s*x with her (ugh just let it be Aegon pls I’m not a shipper but at least it would make sense). And apparently there may even be another riot during Jaehaerys’s funeral. Which again, DID NOT FUCKING HAPPEN.

Rha*nyra wielding a goddamn sword and still being portrayed as Mother Mary herself and being so dutiful and amazing and good🙄. Like, book!Rha*nyra was an awful person, but at least she was entertaining and had an actual personality.

Rumors of Rhaena apparently claiming a dragon that may be Sheepstealer, which means they might give Nettles’s storyline to Rhaena which I hate. Granted it’s just a rumor, but I would actually scream if they erased not just Nettles, but Morning as well.

I’m pretty sure there’s more but those are the main ones I can think of rn

Everything about the new season sounds so bad and I’m honestly thinking of not watching it at this point. Season 1 was bad enough with the villainizing of Team Green and the whitewashing of Team Black, but now they’re just going all out and continuing to climb the ladder of absurdity.

At this point I just feel bad for both Teams tbh. There’s no nuisance, no balanced focus on both sides, no effort to make both sides enjoyable. It’s very obvious that HBO has already chosen a side, and yet they’re still pushing the whole choosing teams agenda.

Only things that look promising are the upgraded wigs and costumes and Da*myra in their breakup era.

#house of the dragon #game of thrones #pro team green #anti team black #anti daemon targaryen #anti rhaenyra targaryen #team green deserved so much better #team green #anti daemyra #hotd critical

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yumenoberu · 1 month ago

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My Sweetest Downfall

Tamaki Suoh x fem!reader

summary: Y/n L/n spends her days in peace, simply content with observing the world in her little corner. Unbeknownst to the outside, the aloof and standoffish girl privately enjoys sappy romance and hides behind a cold facade. Could the heatwave of Tamaki’s love melt her icy exterior?

word count: 1.6k words

warnings: no spoilers but there are references to chapter 25 of the manga iykyk

published: 11/24/24

author’s note: Uhmmm so this was made for a request but I didnt know that you can’t reply to an ask twice and I dont want to tag them in case they’re not comfortable with it. I can only hope the person who requested it will see it. I am terribly sorry, pls forgive my ignorance reader… Ill be more careful next time T-T 🙏🏻. Moving on, I loved the concept they requested and just had wayyy too many ideas—I eventually settled with this storyline rly rly hope you’ll all enjoy it loves! 🌹✨

The latter half of October is fast approaching, signaling the beginning of the fall season. Though at present the trees’ hues have yet to shift and pathways are clear of shedded leaves, it was still a charming early-fall afternoon at the Ouran Academy Campus.

Within the pristine walls of the High School building, the chatty aristocracies of 2nd year Class A gather together to plan for their displays at the upcoming school fair, the class’s representatives ceremoniously stand side by side up front to facilitate the discussion,

“Onto the main item on our agenda, we’ll decide our class’s theme for the Ouran Fair. After considering some suggestions we’ll vote, settle, then begin planning.” Kyoya begins, hands motioning to his fellow students to start sharing their proposals.

With chalk and an eraser on hand, Y/n L/n the vice-rep, was stationed before the board. Listening silently but intently to take note of the students’ ideas as they recited.

“I’ve got just the perfect idea!” Hopping on his seat, the hyper and ostentatious Tamaki Suoh beamed as he waited to be acknowledged to share his proposal.

“Go ahead Tamaki.” Kyoya acknowledged. Prompted by his friend’s sudden, disruptive outburst, his tone exuded an inkling of irritation.

“Ladies and gents, to separate our class from all the others I propose we choose ‘Commoner’s Culture’ as our theme!” The suggestion was typical for Tamaki yet it's a topic alien to his peers. The subject matter, coupled with his animated presentation, effectively gained their full attention and intrigue.

“We can decorate our venue to imitate a town festival. We’ll set up food stalls and game stands, and dress up in bandanas and aprons as we entertain our guests with typical festival foods and activities—an unfamiliar yet stimulating, and even thrilling experience to many!” Tamaki continued, throwing his hands up to make all sorts of gestures, attempting to assist the others in visualizing his concept.

Unsurprisingly, the crowd was easily swayed, his ‘performance’ igniting every soul in the room with the same enthusiasm as he. Giddy but purposeful chatter shortly filled the space.

“I’m assuming this means we all agree on this theme?” Kyoya slightly raises his voice to get his question across the room, in response every student undividedly exclaims their confirmations.

Kyoya obliged, “Very well then, the motion passes unanimously. Class 2-A theme for the Ouran Fair this year is ‘Kiosks for the Common Folk’. Let’s begin planning now shall we?”

With the first item on the agenda sorted out, the students circle around the middle to assemble the tables, creating a bigger working space as they gather to commence. In a matter of moments the room erupts in a storm of ideas, productive converse stuffing the air.

Y/n, the aforementioned silent vice-representative, just accomplished clearing up the board. She discreetly approached the huddle, settling at a good distance.

They were all far too engrossed in their exchanges to accommodate anything she could’ve said anyway, so it made sense in her head to listen in rather than fully participate. She simply gazed at the crowd and watched peacefully, taking in the plots as they went.

The minutes flew by and it was nearing dismissal time. Overhearing some goodbyes and observing others begin to pack up and re-arrange the tables, Y/n took it as a sign to retire for the day as well.

Right before she could load her discarded notebooks and pens into her bag,

“Y/n!” A head from among the last of the swarm peaked up and whipped around, expelling her name a number of times, calling for her attention. Just as she was about to answer back, the person spotted her and proceeded to jog to her side of the room.

Since she was facing the window, the sun’s rays made it difficult to see the figure properly. It was as if a pillar of light was rushing toward her. Well, if she was speaking figuratively she wouldn’t be far from the truth.

He arrived and stood over her hunched form, greeting her tenderly and offering up his hand for her to take.

“Y/n, my dear,” No other voice ever enunciated her with such cadence, with such sensitivity. The amethyst void that were his eyes were trained and focused onto her with the sweetest, most delicate of expressions.

“Why didn’t you join us? I’m sure you thought of some brilliant plans yourself! And, it must’ve been awfully lonely all by yourself here.” Tamaki gleamed at her thoughtfully, with a charming and elegant grin which was right in harmony with the rest of his ethereal features.

Ahhhh Tamaki Suoh, the famed proposer from earlier. A young man so radiant, so severely refreshing, in his brilliance he rivals the very morning sun. Possessing an authentic heart of gold, he captures the hearts of his peers with unrivaled charm and thus has gained notable influence. He’s tall, foreign, and exceedingly handsome—an unmatched beauty both in and out. A quintessential gentleman is what he is!

Although as to be expected, even despite his magnetism it seems it's quite impossible to please everyone.

“I was quite fine by myself Suoh,” To his invitation, Y/n threw him a sharp look. Her voice was strained, quite evidently laced with contempt.

“Ah, but we’ll be needing your help specifically! Your family owns a construction company, am I right?” Unfazed and untouched by her sneers he went on with the same kindly attitude.

“You’d be right. What about it?” She continued with the same tone, her expression contorting into one of restraint. A clear indicator that the girl was less than delighted to be speaking to him.

To any outsider, it’s evident that with the way the conversation was going, if it was anyone other than Tamaki she was speaking to, it would’ve ended the moment she replied the first time.

“Excellent! If that’s the case then can you provide the stands and kiosks? We haven’t made solid plans for the look of them yet, so if it’s alright with you, could you stay back a bit so the two of us can figure it out?” Ah, the persistence. Even after all the signs that signaled she was giving it her all to prevent herself from exploding at him, he pressed on with a gentle grin on his face, not-so patiently but eagerly awaiting her response.

That grin. That damn grin. Oh how she hated… her love for it, that is.

Truth be told, as standoffish, sharp-tongued, and sour-faced as Y/n L/n seemed, she had a weakness. One she swore to take to the grave to preserve her worthless pride,

Yes, alas! Y/n is just a girl–helpless is she toward anything that resembles romantic cliches!

“O-Oh,” She was quite literally caught off guard, the suddenness of his request flustered her and though it goes unnoticed by the blonde, a hint of pink dusts Y/n’s formerly cold expression. Her mouth draws into a line as she restrains herself from showing any unwelcome reaction, even when she feels her chest twist and hands grow cold.

If it weren’t for her pride, she would’ve undoubtedly been a regular at the Host Club. Y/n was not—not even in the slightest, immune to Tamaki’s princely charms. In reality, she fell for it from the very beginning and even today, the very thought of him shut down every system in her body!

But the irony, the cruel paradox of her love for him was that she hated Tamaki as much as she loved him.

And for what? Because he reminded her of her favorite romance tropes in fiction. She knew well how foolish and childish her spectrum of feelings were. How irrational it all was what bothered her into oblivion!

As the inner chaos raged on, outwardly she stayed stupidly silent and motionless. Not even registering that she had been staring into the poor blonde’s soul with a ludicrous blank face.

Truthfully concerned at her silence, Tamaki relents. He hums, “It’s alright if you don’t want to of course, my sweet. We can always discuss it another time. There’s no rush really, I guess we all just got a bit excited.” There he goes again! Flipping her insides over with the nicknames! Those words paired with the visuals are too powerful, far too dangerous to exist—

She always hated how awfully impertinent she acted toward him, even when she constantly treated him like air—why was he always just so sweet?! He still approaches her, and calls her by those sickeningly endearing names—He’s an angel she’s sure of it.

Every fiber of her being yelped and thrashed against her. She was out of her mind. Logic and reason were out of the equation her mouth unconsciously moves,

“A-as in, the two of us…? Alone? Here? N-n-now?”

She stuttered! She freakin stuttered!

But she spoke! That’s a first—But she also stuttered…

Ahhh… And just like that, the perfectly curated image she built herself crumbled down with just a peep at his splendor.

As the realization dawned, flusteredness rushed to punch her in the gut. She felt herself physically falter, shifting a helpless and sheepish gaze to her lap, shielding her face from the boy. Her hands clasped and harshly pressed down, as she pinched herself to distract from the fuzz in her brain eating at her.

‘A toast... To my worthless pride-‘

Y/n’s thoughts spiraled into a storm, her mind clouded with shame and mortification.

But to her immediate shock, Tamaki start giggling.

Her head whipped up on its own, her body hollering to capture the sight.

As simple as it seemed, to her, it was like witnessing the sun’s rays peek out from the clouds following the rainfall. As infuriatingly unreasonable as it is, the brilliant smile that she loves so much she hates it, it’s her everything.

And like clockwork, she’s once more left to idiotically stare at him in wonder, marveling at the glimpse of heaven she felt most fortunate to witness. She couldn’t care less about her prior embarrassment anymore. At this moment, she was experiencing pure bliss.

Haaah… What could she do? To hell with her pride! Y/n is frustratingly, stupidly, sickeningly—in love.

‘What was this all about again?’

masterlist

#tamaki suoh x reader #tamaki x reader #tamaki suoh #ouran x reader #ohshc x reader #ouran highschool host club x reader #ouran high school host club #ohshc #fluff #fanfic #oneshot #reader insert

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lukeywritesstuff · 1 year ago

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this request might be a little confusing to type out but hear me out😭🤣 could u write something ab the reader having a kid and the devils having a event where the players get to train with the kids! the readers kid is one of the kids at the event and luke falls for the reader somehow through that! idk i have this vision in my head but idk how to type it out😭

Little League

Luke Hughes x mom!reader

Note: don’t worry! I totally understand what you’re saying. I read this and kinda had a social media/irl storyline come to my mind so I hope that’s alright! Also I kinda made them slightly know each other, but like acquaintances and they have like mutual friends kinda sorta.

Warnings: a shit ton of fluff. Literally it’s all fluff. Like I don’t even think this has cursing in it. And if so maybe once.

My name is Y/N, and when I was 15 I had a son. He is absolutely everything to me. I was young, and dumb, but if I was given the option to go back and never hook up with some senior at my school, I wouldn’t take the offer. I love my little man too much.

When he was 2 he fell in love with hockey, so at 3 I let him start learning how to skate and grasp the basics of playing hockey, even though for his age it was just floor. Now at 5 he’s playing fully on ice and his team was even invited to practice with the New Jersey Devils, as his team, and we, are based in Newark.

Once we got to Prudential Centre the boys were sent to the main locker room, their names were on tape right under their buddy for the day. I was looking around and right under ‘Luke Hughes’ in full capital letters read ‘Ethan Y/L/N’. I walked my son over to the stall where his name was (obviously avoiding the logo) and I helped him change into his pads, uniform and skates.

After all the kids were settled and ready, coach Ruff started explaining to the kids and the parents how this practice session basically works.

It’s a 4 week training camp, and it’s every Wednesday that the devils are in town. (So 4 Wednesdays, but sometimes there’s a week between the practices without one cuz they’re away) after everything was explained, the Devils were brought into the locker room to meet with their buddies for the program.

The second Ethan saw Luke the smile on his face grew by about 100%. He watched him on Michigan last season as my sister goes there and is friends with some of the older players on the team, and they’ve met before, so he’s excited to see his old friend.

“LUKEY! You’re my buddy! I’m so happy! I missed you! Are we gonna shoot pucks and score on everyone!?” My 5 year old said acting like I just fed him 3 coffees with a side of 10 pounds of sugar.

“Oh yeah we are! We’re gonna be the best group on the ice! With the best cheerleader! Right Y/N?” He said and I smiled at them giving a thumbs up.

After the rest of the kids got to know their buddy a little more the teams were ushered onto the ice, and parents were to stay along the sidelines and not interfere unless there was an emergency.

The team had several smaller nets put up along the boards to practice shooting, cones near centre ice to practice skating, and pucks EVERYWHERE. The kids were all having a blast, and so were the professionals.

By the end of the 2 hours all the kids looked ready to nap, and honestly so did most of the players. Everyone went into the locker room and the players helped the kids with their skates before they talked to the parents.

“So, how was Ethan out there?” I asked the curly headed man smiling at me.

“He’s great. Future NHL superstar I think. The next Gretzky! Forget about bedard!” He said.

“I’m glad my kids THAT GOOD.” I smiled.

“Yeah he is. How are you though? I haven’t seen you since you and Ethan visited Sarah?!” He said bringing up my sister.

“Everything’s great here actually! He’s loving kindergarten now and I got a raise which is why I put him into this. As a little treat for him.” I smiled.

“You’re such a good mom to him. You know, since we’re both in Jersey, I think we should finally exchange numbers, and maybe we can go out for lunch one day Eth’s in school and you’re off and I don’t have practice!” He said smiling.

“You know what, sure Hughes. Pass me your phone and we can text tonight about said lunch date.” I said before taking his phone.

Ynstagram

Had a great time with the @njdevils and @lhughes_06. Eth will never forget this. Thank you so much 🫶🫶

╔═══════════════════╗

The second week was 2 weeks later as the devils had their first road trip of the season. The kids were extra excited because the wait was longer than they expected it to be.

The second Ethan saw Luke he ran to the man and attached himself to him, it didn’t seem weird because quite a few of the kids did the same to their buddies.

Today on the ice they were doing more team oriented practices instead of just one on one. So Luke, Jack, Dawson, and Nico were working together with Ethan and 3 other kids. It wasn't too eventful, just 2 on 2 scrimmage and small drills that 5 year olds can handle.

But this time after helping Ethan change and it was time for Luke and I to talk about his progress, he asks me out for the next evening, I said yes because Ethan was already gonna be at my parents so I'll be home alone anyways, why not spent that evening with Luke!

#luke hughes #luke hughes x reader #luke hughes fanfiction #luke hughes imagine #luke hughes fanfic

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bridgertonandchocolate · 6 months ago

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Here’s how you know I was disappointed with Bridgerton season 3 part 2: I’ve rewatched it one time. I went through a second time on Thursday but just did Polin moments. I rewatched it yesterday. And I don’t have a great desire to rewatch it more times. Which is very unlike me. Since I rewatched part 1 every single day between May 16 and June 13. Sometimes multiple times a day. Just on repeat.

I’ve heard and seen some people saying that they cut a massive amount of Polin from what was originally done. I don’t know the validity of this but if it’s true all of the things I was expecting to see as I watched it is what they supposedly cut out.

Honestly I don’t know why we’re cutting key pieces of the main couple. And it would’ve been elemental to their arc. The episodes were long but I don’t see why they couldn’t have sacrificed other unnecessary storylines or just made the episode longer. I don’t mind longer episodes.

Better yet if there’s so much they want to include and they want all these evolving stories here’s some options:

1. Put out more than 8 episodes. 10-12 or 13 is fine and definitely enough time to flesh things out.

2. Make the episodes much longer as I already mentioned.

3. Make the show truly an ensemble show and don’t have a main focus.

I get why there is a main couple but it felt like there wasn’t this season. I feel bad for Luke and Nicola who put their hard work and whole souls into filming this and I think a lot of what they referenced during promo was ultimately cut. I can’t imagine putting myself out there in an intimacy scene and doing it for hours on end for a day or two and them being like never mind we’re not going to include this part now. Like what a waste. Like I got naked and simulated sex and you’re just gonna cut it? Okay.

I think they overhyped it because they knew people would be disappointed.

Ive seen some people say this season was awful. I don’t think it was awful or the worst. It was okay. But it could’ve been way better. I think as I rewatch more I’ll be able to appreciate it for what it is (hopefully). They tried to do too much and they ended up not doing the main couple enough justice and people didn’t get what they were expecting or wanting.

I know that they’re returning for season 4 but I’ve lost trust in the writers so I’m going to have to dampen expectations and lower that bar to the floor.

#bridgerton #polin #bridgerton season three #it’s polin season #romancing mister bridgerton #luke newton #nicola coughlan #colin bridgerton #penelope featherington #colin and penelope

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buddiebeginz · 1 month ago

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I get that some of you are nervous of Eddie leaving and Buddie not happening but trust me when I tell you Ryan isn’t going anywhere. There are zero signs that he wants to leave the show.

All of the main cast seem very happy and like a family and like they want to be working together for as long as possible. They’re also working in roles that you can’t do in just any other acting job, doing these crazy emergencies regularly. You don’t just leave a work environment like that for no reason. It’s also not like Ryan can’t do other projects while working on 911, he just worked on a movie not too long ago. So no he’s not leaving.

When it comes to Buddie I think some of you have gotten so used to storylines that play out instantly on streaming you’re not used to a network slow burn where you have to wait.

I get being scared of being let down by the show. I know how much we’re all hoping and waiting for Buddie to happen. But Buddie has been in the works for years. It was originally supposed to happen in s5 (Buck was supposed to come out in s4) but Fox refused to let it happen. So Tim left and then the show moved to abc and so Tim came back. When he did he started putting the wheels in motion for Buddie canon and that started with Buck coming out in s7. Buddie going canon has already started we’ve been in the storyline since last season when Buck’s coming out was heavily connected to Eddie.

If I didn’t think Buddie was going to happen or that it was a big maybe I’d say so but in all the years of watching the show I’ve never been as certain it’s happening as I am now.

The other thing is I think there would be zero doubt right now if Buddie was a straight ship. But because they’re two guys and they’re breaking new ground with being the first real slow burn queer ship on a primetime network show people will question if it’s happening the whole way.

Tim knows how a significant portion of the audience for the show loves Buddie. Tim, Oliver, and Ryan have all shown support for Buddie over the years which btw isn’t common for non canon queer ships. A lot of things are in our favor. If Tim didn’t want to make Buddie happen he would have made that clear when he came back and it’s been the total opposite. In s7 they were together more than ever and they’ve still been joined at the hip in s8 even if hey haven’t had a ton of scenes while Tim was closing up other storylines. We can see with 808 and recent interviews that the bulk of Eddie and Buddie’s s8 storylines are going to be in 8b.

I’ve seen people say why doesn’t Eddie just go get Chris and bring him home. I believe he will eventually but this storyline with Eddie contemplating moving to Texas isn’t as much about the Chris storyline as it is about the Buddie storyline. You have to have obstacles in a will they/won’t they that makes the audience think they aren’t going to end up together. There is always lots of angst leading up to the moment when they finally get together or get back together. This makes for a more emotional dramatic moment and some of the best tv.

We’re meant to think Eddie is leaving but even if he goes to Texas for a minute it won’t be permanent. I’m confident in saying we’ll have Buddie canon by the end of the season and Chris back too.

Please don’t let fandom’s tendency to catastrophize make you worry about where the story is going. Also take all the interviews with a grain of salt because they can’t and won’t tell us exactly where things are going. Like with the most recent Tim interviews and him making it sound like Eddie is moving. That makes sense because we’re right at the beginning of that storyline he can’t say what will happen.

Things with Buddie will take a little time to play out but we’ll get there. We are going into this hiatus in the best possible place we can be in right now and we should all be incredibly excited for what’s to come for Buddie in 8b.

#buddie #911 buddie #ryan guzman #911 spoilers #911 8x08 #911!

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dat-is-chill-ghafa · 1 month ago

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my main problem with the ending of arcane s2 (as a person who never and still knows nothing about league of legends lore) is how big the world became, and past the initial crux of piltover vs. zaun:

the arc of arcane has always been really about vi and jinx and how they r representative, almost microcosms of the reality of zaun, violently controlled and forced into worse circumstances, poverty, addiction, crime- all of these things by piltover

inherently the story is around classism, about resisting your oppressors, and season 2 rlly frames the story of the “imperfect hero” - act 2 surrounded the idea of jinx being an emblem and the necessity of zaun’s resistance in order to exceed their circumstances of survival- but the death of her, of simply adding one board member to the council

Of not really fleshing out why or how zaun and piltover simply “got over” their war in order to fight for the greater bad?

Jinx was always going to have a bad ending, from the start- to her hero storyline- it was destined to happen- but reducing it to that simple of a death with little meaning or showcase of the impact she’s had??? Also - controversial opinion possibly?? But I’ve always felt the real hero of zaun was ekko- loved jinx’s and his scenes together but I wanted more in terms of the symbolism of him being the real hero and jinx acknowledging together than their resistance, that their love for zaun was more important than anything, that they understood eachother and their place.

Never been a fan of the caitvi storyline, particularly when it takes precedence over interesting storyline- idgaf about a fucking fascist?? why did we excuse this??? how did we excuse this? did we forget the chemical warfare she casually dealt out? that vi became perfectly fine because they’re in love? Sis, your parents were murdered alongside half of zaun- also fair was a huge part of the copaganda storyline which has never been my favourite- so having the only fine ending for them was a rlly interesting choice.

are we not gonna talk about singed who had almost no allegiances to either piltover or zaun but simply to his daughter who seemed perfectly happy at the end - did he achieve immortality, how does he escape any consequences- sucks that he had no real agenda because I feel that was a missed character choice!

I think the first two acts felt rlly phenomenal in fleshing out the moral ambiguities that come with “war” and how in order to gain freedom, it is never gained through merely peaceful methods - act 3 almost completely dismissed or forgoed that idea

I also may have just missed a bunch of stuff!

#arcane season two #arcane s2 #arcane #arcane spoilers #arcane s2 spoilers #powder #jinx #vi #caitvi

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faramirsonofgondor · 4 months ago

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Some Thoughts on Crosshair (TBB)

**Buckle up because this is probably the longest post I’ve ever made because I lost the plot halfway through. Like this started out analytical and then just went sideways. (I spent hours writing this instead of doing my homework)

I think part of what makes Crosshair’s character so compelling in Season 1 & 2 of TBB is that his storyline is incredibly unique to himself.

Like throughout TCW & TBB we see that the clones are in this constant struggle of having to follow orders vs. choosing to do what they think is right. While every time this dilemma comes up, it happens in slightly different ways and has different consequences each time, the premise is mostly the same. The clones rebel against their orders, to do what the general audience views as “the right thing”. In certain cases, it may be more nuanced, such as Slick killing other clones as an act of revolution against the people he views as their oppressors (the Jedi & the Republic), or such as Fives attempting to assassinate the Chancellor.

It’s one of the main tropes of TCW - the clones were conditioned to be subservient , but the orders are questionable or immoral, and in the end the clone rebels. They made a distinct point of having Dogma, whose name is directly tied to obedience of authority, be the one to kill Krell when Rex couldn’t. Even the whole Cut & Suu situation was an act rebellion in itself. Time and time again, TCW shows the clones rebelling in various ways, whether it be desertion and quaint domesticity, or attempting to assassinate the head political figure of your governing body.

Then in the last season of TCW and TBB, we see the clones rebellion being set up in a more distinctive pattern - the clones learn about the chips, the clones remove their chips, and then immediately after the clones either (1) die, (2) decide to retire or go on the run (3) organize and fight against the empire, or some combination of those three.

Enter Crosshair, who is quite literally one of the only clones (the only clone?) who doesn’t follow the pattern. Every single clone we’ve seen who is aware of the chips/has their chip removed, and even some of the ones who don’t in TBB, chose to fight against the Empire. It reinforces to the audience that this is the Right Choice to make. They’re shoving it in our faces, saying “Hey! See!! This is the right thing to do!!! This is what any one would do in this situation!! Any good person would rebel!!! Because it’s the right thing to do!!!” But Crosshair is the exception. Somewhere between 1x08 and 1x14, his chip is removed. And unlike every other clone who has been in his position, he chooses to stay, to follow orders (somewhat), and to turn his back on everyone who rebels.

This creates a fascinating arc and an incredibly unique mindset for Crosshair, because it goes against everything we’ve seen about the clones and their morals. No matter side of the rebellion that they’re on, the clones have all placed a tremendous emphasis on loyalty and brotherhood when it comes down to decision making and their morals. A significant amount of clones that TBB or Rex & his rebellion squad encounter allow themselves to be reasoned with, subconsciously placing their loyalty and sense of brotherhood above following their orders, such as Howzer in s1 and Wolffe in s3. But not Crosshair.

This causes the audience to question why? Why would Crosshair choose the Empire? Why would he choose to go against the rebellion? Why would he choose to give up part of his freedom, part of his ability to make choices, just to side with the Empire? Why would he believe that this is the right thing to do?

And while it is somewhat established that part of his reasoning is that he feels like he was betrayed by TBB and that Empire is making the world better (or whatever propaganda they were spewing), I think it goes a lot deeper than that.

In 1x01, we see Echo upset by the revelation that the Republic has now become the Galactic Empire, to which Crosshair says “Republic, Empire, what’s the difference?” I think it’s a very subtle allusion to how little freedom the clones had in their lives, and how much the Republic had already fallen. While Crosshair asks the question in a very bored/deadpan drawl (as he does most things), it does seem to be a genuine question. What is the difference between? I know most people would probably interpret that scene as him implying that it doesn’t matter whether they fight for the Empire or the Republic, because it’s all the same to him and they’re just supposed to follow orders.

But just how different is the Empire from the Republic, really? From a general point of view, the main difference in how they operate is that the Chancellor - now Emperor, has more permanent power and influence. He’s legally(?) allowed to make more decisions without approval from the Senate. But he was already doing that throughout the war. He was already gaining more and more power. He was already in complete control of the Republic and he held extreme influence over the entire Jedi Order. This was all in his persona as Palpatine as well, not as Darth Sidious. Sure he orchestrated behind the scenes as a Sith, played both sides of the war, yada yada, made convoluted plans to cause chaos and distrust within the order, groomed children to be evil, and all that other stuff. But like also, from a general pov, he literally controlled the order. Like whenever the order was like “we don’t think this a good idea” or “we shouldn’t do it this way” or “this goes against our code”, he straight up was just like “well I’m Chancellor of the Republic. You have to do what I say. And I say you have to do it.” Like the Jedi, who are “peacekeepers” were literally forced into being warmongers. The Jedi don’t want a Zillo Beast running around, the Chancellor makes it his pet and then lets it run around. Anakin wants to lead his men on Umbara, the Chancellor calls him back. The Jedi want to know more about Fives death, the Chancellor gets them to back off. Anakin thinks they should take Dooku in alive, the Chancellor convinces him to kill Dooku. The Jedi want the Chancellor to give up his emergency powers, the Chancellor kills all of them. Jedi say no, Chancellor says yes. The Chancellor was controlling everything long before he even uttered the words “Galactic Empire”. The only thing that changed was that he was no longer trying to hide it. The Senate no longer had the illusion of democracy, and then and their people could see the freedom they once had shrinking as they days passed.

But the clones never lived under the assumption that they would be permitted freedom - not really. Sure, maybe they were allowed to make some choices, they could change their haircut, paint their armor, and have downtime if they were lucky. But even then, they lived under the idea that they were there to serve the Republic as soldiers. They were there to follow orders and nothing else. And while, like I stated before, they did rebel against their orders at times in TCW, they were never actively trying to dismantle the system they rebelled against (except maybe Fives, who immediately tried to kill the Chancellor once he realized what was going on). They were aware that they didn’t have much control, and they were resigned to that fact for the most part. So really, what did it matter if the Republic became an Empire instead?

Well, Tech responds by saying that a big difference for him between the Republic and the Empire was the genocide of the Jedi. Despite the fact that they were labeled as traitors, the entire batch (sans Crosshair) is uneasy with idea that they had all committed mass genocide against the same people they served beside. This is important because it demonstrates that they aren’t upset by their own lack of freedom within this Empire, but rather the actions of the Empire itself. They don’t view the Empire as evil because of the system it creates, but rather because of what the Empire has done.

Then the episode continues, and TBB are ordered to kill innocent civilians. This just further reinforces the idea that the Empire is evil - or at the very least, wrong. The rest of season unfolds similarly, with Empire doing evil stuff and TBB fighting against it, and Crosshair siding with the Empire the whole time. Now, this brings me back to my earlier statement that Crosshairs motivations are deeper than just the chip and the betrayal he feels by TBB. It’s clear in episode 1, and in other episodes, that Crosshair is struggling against the chip. The clear headache and confusion he has about why he’s following orders is a huge tell. Then, after Bracca (likely when his chip was removed), we see that he’s not as trigger happy against “traitors” and that he himself can now disobey orders. But Crosshair stays with the Empire. He can’t be reasoned with. In fact, Crosshair is the one trying to persuade TBB to join the Empire. He abducts Hunter, hatches his plot, kills a bunch of imperials, nearly gets himself killed, and even saves the child he was beefing with. But TBB don’t want to be apart of the Empire, and Crosshair does. Unlike the other clones in his position, Crosshair doesn’t put brotherhood first.

Crosshair constantly talks about how he’s doing something great by being apart of the Empire and spouts propaganda all day long, but I don’t think he really believes it. I don’t think it’s necessarily about loyalty, or even about following orders. All of the other clones, even the rest of TBB, viewed themselves as soldiers/assets of the Republic. For a lot of them, this meant fighting and possibly dying beside their brothers, and beside their Jedis. But I think Crosshair didn’t really see himself as soldier, but rather as a weapon.

TBB is a specialized task force that doesn’t get along with most clones, and they don’t have a Jedi or general, they just have each other. They get sent on a mission, they complete it successfully, then they go to Kamino where they’re isolated and ostracized. While it’s clear they can form bonds with other clones (Cody, Rex, etc.) and even some Jedi (Anakin, Depa?), they don’t so very often, and they likely don’t see those clones very often. So, for the most part, they have to rely on each other. But Crosshair is more isolated than the rest of them, because as the sniper, he kind of has to be. They all rely on him to have their backs, and so he has to be more cautious, more alert, and more observant. The rest of the batch can fall short at times, Hunter can lose a fight, Wrecker can be too loud or accidentally set off an explosion, Tech can mess up or take too long, Echo can trigger something he didn’t intend to, but Crosshair? Crosshair never misses, because he can’t afford to. He doesn’t have the luxury of making mistakes, not like the rest of them do. And when they do mess up, he has to be prepared to fix it. Because all their lives depend on it. And sure, the rest of the batch has the ability to think quickly and creatively and come up with solutions for any mistakes they make, but Crosshair has the ability to take down enemies long before anyone else sees them coming. He can pick them off one by one from afar, whereas the rest of the batch wouldn’t be able to do so. Hunter, Tech, and Echo would likely have to resort to hand-to-hand combat. Tech and Echo would also likely be able to find some sort of way to electronically take them down, but it would still take time and effort. Wrecker would be able to detonate explosives, launch grenades, and would likely take down a larger number of enemies in hand-to-hand combat, but he’s also a bigger target and has to be careful about when and how he rigs his explosives. But Crosshair can kill them quickly and efficiently without fail, and so that’s what he does.

I think that deep down his role has an incredibly large impact on his sense of self and it dehumanizes him in a way that the others’ roles don’t. Because as I said earlier, the rest of them are soldiers, but Crosshair sees himself as a weapon. Hunter is a leader, and a tracker, and a fighter. He uses his body to fight and track and uses his mind to give orders. Tech is a genius, and a pilot, and a fighter. He uses his mind primarily and he uses it impressively but he’s capable of using his body when he needs to. Wrecker is a bomb technician, a hulk, and a lover. He uses his mind when he rigging his explosives, and he uses his body to fight and to be overly affectionate with everyone he cares about. Echo is a tactician, an ARC, and a survivor. He uses his mind to plan and uses his body to fight and he’s able to keep alive against all odds. Crosshair is an enigma experiment, a good soldier shot, and a brother loner. Sure he has to use his mind to calculate the angles of shots and whatnot, and he can use his body to see a target, align his scope and pull the trigger, but really how’s that any different than a machine. Droids do all that too. The only difference is that Crosshair is really fucking great at it, and droids aren’t. And sure, Crosshair can think, and he can eat, and he can sleep, and he can feel, but what’s so important about all of that anyways? That’s not what he was made for. That’s not what he’s needed for. He may need to eat and think and sleep at times, but those were more inconvenient than they were anything else. Droids don’t need food, or sleep, or the ability to do anything other than be a weapon. But Crosshair did need those, despite how much better of a weapon he was. So sure, Crosshair was technically a living breathing person soldier. But deep down he knew that if there was some way for Kaminoans to get rid of those needs, to rid him of them, they would. So really, the only differences between him and any other weapon was that he was a lot fucking better than the other weapons, and that he had a few more needs, every weapon needs regular upkeep anyways.

That’s why he stays. Because weapons don’t need brothers, they need handlers. Because weapons don’t need family, they need targets. Because weapons don’t need love, they need war. Because weapons don’t need belonging or loyalty, they need purpose, they need use. That’s all he needs. That’s all he knows. That’s why he stays.

That’s why the batch’s reasoning, their appeal to brotherhood and loyalty, and love, and morals, doesn’t work. That’s not who what he is. That’s not what he’s made for. That’s not why he saved them and that’s not why he lets go and that’s not why he lies to Empire (yes it is). And that’s not why, despite everything, he can’t look away watches them leave him again and wonders if it hurt them this much to watch him stay if they watched at all. That’s not why, as the rotations pass and nobody comes and his hunger and thirst become more apparent, and his body starts to weaken, he briefly wishes he went with them. That’s not why at all. He just misses them food and water and sleep, he just wants them the ache in bones to leave, he just needs them some rest and a target and purpose, really that’s all he needs. Because he’s a weapon. That’s all he’s ever been he was a brother and a person. That’s all he’s ever supposed to be. That’s why, when Cody begins asking questions, he reminds him that they’re soldiers, that they’re doing what they’re supposed to do. But Cody doesn’t seem to get it, or maybe he gets it too much, because then he tells Crosshair that they’re different from droids, that they make their own choices, and that they have to live with their choices since when did he get to live with anything. And maybe Crosshair is the one who doesn’t get it, but he doesn’t need to, because he’s a weapon and weapons don’t need to think good soldiers follow orders. Except, maybe being a weapon isn’t enough anymore. Crosshair was a good weapon, a great weapon, and yet he was shipped off to some nowhere ice planet for no reason weapons don’t need reasons. Then came Mayday. Crosshair tried to keep him at arms length weapons don’t need friends, but then Crosshair steps on the mine weapons can’t make mistakes and Mayday saves him despite the risk Crosshair can’t need saving that’s not how snipers operate. And then they find the cargo. And then Mayday gets injured. And then Crosshair saves him and carries him all way back. And then Nolan lets him die. And then Crosshair - Crosshair was angry weapons don’t feel, and for a moment he let himself feel everything. And then he was reprimanded, and being given orders, and he should follow them. It was what he was made for. But he didn’t. He wanted answers, wanted to know what he did wrong, wanted to know why he was being discarded again, wanted to know why Hunter and Echo and Tech and Wrecker and Howzer and Cody and hundreds of other clones seemed to see something he couldn’t, wanted to know why Mayday had to die when he was a good soldier good soldiers follow orders, and he wanted to know his purpose. But weapons don’t need to think, and Crosshair was a weapon. So he did as all weapons do, and he fired. And Nolan never saw it coming. And it’s not until he’s being experimented on, surrounded by hundreds of other clones in the same position as him, that Crosshair realizes he’s not a weapon he never was.

This is why his arc is compelling, so fascinating, and so significant. When the other clones struggle with following orders and their loyalty to the Republic/Empire, it’s because they’re struggling between what they’ve been conditioned to think/supposed to do and what they care about/think is right. But Crosshair’s struggle comes from the war between his obedience and his individualism. This is why it takes him so long to leave, because his individualism is part of the reason he’s so obedient in the first place. Because he thinks differently, he views himself differently, he has a different world view, and a different kind of logic. The other clones leave/disobey when they realize that Republic/Empire is doing more harm than good but to Crosshair it doesn’t matter what happens so long as he obeys and does his job. Which, again, is why the batch’s actions and pleas for him to leave the Empire don’t appeal to him. In their minds, they’re doing what’s right by helping people and trying to stop the Empire from hurting and killing others. In Crosshair’s mind, he’s doing what’s right by fulfilling his purpose and doing whatever the Empire asks of him. I just find it highly unlikely that the reason Crosshair stayed with the Empire was because he felt betrayed and left behind by Hunter and the batch or because he wanted some sort of revenge. Getting left behind would have likely be upsetting and make him angry, but I don’t think it’s the main motivation for Crosshairs actions in S1. He stated in TCW that he would’ve left Echo behind as well, which might’ve just been to rile up Rex, but then in S2 he tells Mayday he’s not going to carry any deadweight. While he does end up carrying Mayday, I think that Crosshair’s words imply that he can understand why he was left behind, even if it is upsetting. I think most of Crosshair’s anger isn’t because they left him behind, but because they left the Empire at all. Because despite what Crosshair says about Hunter not being to loyal and never giving him a chance, Crosshair didn’t want to go with them, he wanted them to come back. Crosshair had multiple opportunities to leave before the S1 finale, and he had the opportunity to leave in the finale as well, but he turned them down because he didn’t want to get out.

This all really makes me wish we had gotten episodes about the batch when they were younger. I want to know more about how they grew up and what their training looked like and their first missions.

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