#they can't still be rooting for the audience to ship it. right?!

[fernsnouveau]

Yeah no I didn't come here to watch Adrien date Gabriel 2.0

[yuvany]

CORPSE BRIDE ft PARK SUNGHOON

SYNOPSIS : Sunghoon finds himself in a sticky situation, yearning to return to where he came from; the land of the living and be married to the one he feels his heart beating for..

CONTENT WARNINGS : unrequited love + angst + weapons + none of these character pairing (wony and hoon) are relavant to shipping, but just a choice of characters + blood + skeletons + graveyards + kidnapping + slight body horror description + fights

ACTORS : ENHYPEN SUNGHOON x corpse bride!FEMALE READER — side characters ; wonyoung as Victoria, Gaeul as Scraps

WORD COUNT : 4379

SUNGHOON DIDN'T MEAN TO RUN AWAY, and nor did he mean to meet you. He was simply just too nervous for the wedding his parents had set him up for. Sunghoon messed up his vows and set someone's attire on fire, but most embarrasing of all, he left his soon-to-be-bride alone and went into the woods to collect his mind and go over what he seemed to have rehearsed once too many times, but still gotten it wrong. It wasn't that Wonyoung, the girl he'd marry, was any wrong, if anything she was all everyone would want.

The dark woods where he found himself walking into was filled with tree branches sticking and poking out abnormally, and moss seeming to cover each and every stone he walked by. Slowly, he began to mutter the vows, "With this hand, I will...I will..." He gives it a second go. "With this hand I empty your cup. No that's not it." Sunghoon gets it wrong again and the crows that previously hid seemed to come alive now, causing commotion in the tree crowns while he continues to try to get his vows right, the bright moon now shining through the rustling leaves of the forest. "With this hand, I lift your sorrows. Your cup will never empty, I will be your wine." The sound of crows cawing becomes more insisting and demanding, encouraging Sunghoon to continue due to the new-found audience. "With this candle, I will light your way in darkness...with this ring..." He pulls out the ring from his pocket and looks at it for a second before kneeling down on one knee and propping the ring on a crooked root that extended from the ground. "...I ask you to be mine!"

The life from the forest had seemed to die in an instant, Sunghoon looks up at the quiet crows before attempting to pull the ring off the ring that had previously moved, but it manages to grab him around the wrist first. Just like that, he pulled himself free, pulling other roots along with him. While he is sprawled on the ground, he sees that the root has become a skeletal hand clamping around his wrist once more. Sunghoon exclaims in horror and shoves it away, and sees the ground in front of him split open, revealing a figure with a tattered and old wedding dress wearing his ring. "You may kiss the bride!" You cheer, but Sunghoon scrambles backwards, pushing and hitting leaves and roots while he tries to frantically escape. He makes his way through a graveyard and through the forest until he finds ease by the bridge, finally stoping to catch his breath, but when he turns around and sees you approaching him, and he is frozen in terror, letting you and the crows come close and encircle him.

The crows finally seemed to fly away and as Sunghoon looks around, all he sees are the misshapen buildings and totally different atmosphare from the last. "You were wonderful! So passionate. It was everything I dreamed of!" You exclaim giddily while a Black Widow climbs down your veil and shoots a web at Sunghoon when he takes a step back. "Now, dear, where do you think you're going?" Then an old maggot pops out of your eye, and you pop it right back in after it says, "I don't like him, he's creepy." The irony makes the situation all too hillarious, but scaring to Sunghoon who's still dizzy in the head from how sudden everything has changed.

"Oh Sunghoon! I can't wait for you to meet everyone!" You cheer excitedly. "How...how do you know my name?" He asks, hesitant, his knees quivering as he stands behind you. "You think I'd marry a stranger? Come one!" You grab him by the hand, pulling his sloppy body behind yours. You take him to the town squere while Sunghoon does his best to try to get help and get back to where he came from. He calls out, "Help! You have to help me, I've been kidnapped by . . . " before he finishes his sentence, the passer-by turns around to reveal that he is also a corspe. "...the dead." He mutters the last part unenthustiastically and recoils in horror. "He's a fresh one." Someone comments. "He's still soft." Another ones inquires, poking at Sunghoon with a stick. Everyone gathers around to observe the human.

"He's my husband. He gave me this ring!" You show it off to everyone proudly, your arm extended out and the crowd cheered and awes at the sight. Sunghoon gets overwhelmed by this, someone eagerly shakes his hand and makes a comment on how it stayed, then someone else figured put that he was breathing, fortunately, and getting close enough to hear his panting. "Oh please, leave him alone. He's only just arrived." You interrupt and turn to Sunghoon, your left eye popping out in the process and reveals the maggot from before. "We saw the whole wedding. It was romantic!" The green coloured being recalls, and from behind, the Black Widow appears again. "He reminds me of my third, seventh, twenty-fourth, and sixtythird husbands." "Before you ate them?" The maggot asks. "There was one thing missing though. He forgot to kiss the bride." Upon hearing what the maggot said, the crowd errupted in chants like highschool boys before a match in the locker rooms, and you giggle at this, hearing them chanting, "Kiss her! Kiss her!" This all still seems so surrel to Sunghoon, and he feels his eyelids shut and his knees buckle before it turns black.

Sunghoon wakes up and finds himself in some sort of pub with green flames lighting up the place, and in his field of vision, he sees skeletons leaning over him. "Have a drink dear boy." The waiter says, his head peeking through the fire and only his head is visible. He slides Sunghoon a glass before greeting you. While you mingle and spark conversations, Sunghoon waits there with wide eyes and horror as he inspects the area. He sees a band of corpses playing on some exotic instruments made of bones and scraps, and he also sees someone playing chess with a sword through his chest, and someone's jaw snaps and falls into someone else's bowl. Sunghoon feels like he's about to snap again, his knees feel restless like they want to run away and his palms are coated with glistering sweat. When no one's looking, Sunghoon finds the perfect opportunity to stand up and grabs the sword that had pierced one of the skeletons before, his sudden confidence and action caused everyone to stop what they were doing, and now they were looking at him in shock.

"Keep away! I have a ... Dwarf, and I'm not afraid to use him!! I want some questions! Now!" Sunghoon's hands are shaking and the nervousity is evident in his stance and voice. "Answers. I think you mean answers." Someone else corrects him. "Thank you, yes, answers. I need answers! Where am I? Why am I here? And who is she?!" Sunghoon calls out.

The lights suddenly dims and a spot light shines on the stage. "Since you're askin' . . . Hit it boys!" Someone on stage snapped his fingers and they began singing and dancing. After the show took a pause, Sunghoon uttered, "Pardon me, fellows, i''m going to be sick." Then they returned to singing again, and the cook hit the singer with her ladle.

The pud seemed so alive even though everyone here, excluding Sunghoon was dead. You plant a big kiss on his cheek after the song ends, leaving Sunghoon totally stunned.

You and Sunghoon were led to a table that was romantically lit by a single candle that created a comfortable atmosphare. "Dead! Demise...expired..." Sunghoon sprouted out of frustration. Then the head chef, named Paul, comes forward and speaks with a thick and clear accent. He asks if Sunghoon has any allgeriges, and he says, "Not that it matters anymore. Being that I kicked the bucket. Shuffled off this mortal coil." He says disheartened. In front of him, both you and Paul exchange awkward glances. "Young man, you are confused. You're not dead. You're just married!" Paul says, trying to cheer him up, but Sunghoon looks like he's had enough. "Very funny." "No, really. It's true." You say, and holds his hand above the candle on the table which makes him yelp out in pain. "Feel better?" You ask sincerily. Sunghoon rubs his hand and answers, "That hurt. But wait...that must mean...I'm still alive. I'm alive!" For the first time ever since he spoke his vows he seemed happy. The chef is annoyed by this, but you smile along with Sunghoon, happy that he is finally happy.

"But how can a living person marry a dead person?" He asks. "By making a vow! Which you did!" You say, smiling through it all. "But I'm already supposed to marry Wonyoung." "I'm sure she'll get over it. There's a lot of living people." You can sense how Sunghoon isn't trusting you yet.

"This Wonyoung. Did you love her?" You ask. "i never got the chance to find out. Truth is, we hardly know each other." Sunghoon sulks. "The thing is, Sunghoon, I know a lot about you. i've watched you wandering around the forest...sketching." Sunghoon perks an eyebrow at this and asks, "What? when?" "Haven't you ever felt like you weren't alone, even when you were? Or saw something out of the corner of your eye and turned and it wasn't there?" you ask and he nods. "It was me" You see how he finally relaxes and is deeply moved by this for some reason.

"We live in two different worlds, but they overlap sometimes. I think we're meant to find each other." You say. "i don't even know your name." he argues, his eyebrows are visibly knitted together as his eyes wander all over the place. "I can't believe I forgot to tell you my name...in all this excitement. My name is y/n." "I also have a little wedding gift for you." You whispered through your bony fingers and out comes a skeleton dog that rushes over to the table with its tail wagging happily. "Gaeul! My dog!" Sunghoon cheers after reading the name tag, happy to see her after a long time of being separated. Gaeul jumps up on his lap and licks him on the face. "I knew you'd be happy to see her." As you say that, the dog jumps up on the table and causes a ruckus that mkaes even the cook from earlier to interupt. "Who let that horried beast in here?" the cook exclaims in horror, her laddle waving at the dog. "He came in with the dog." Paul, the waiter, from before remarks, his eyes finding Sunghoon's. "I'm afraid he is mine. I mean was. Gaeul was my dog when I was a little boy." "Keep him out of my kitchen! Who knows where he's been." The cook cuts him off while he reminisce. The small canine friend jumps onto his lap happily while she barks.

"What a cutie." You say. "You should've seen her with fur." Sunghoon replied, while petting Gaeul. "Mother never approved of her jumping up like this. But yet again, she never approved of anything." Sunghoon sulks at the memory. "Do you think she'd approve of me?" You ask curiously. Sunghoon mocks a light of happiness and tells you, "Well, actually...now that you mentioned it, I think she would. Yes!I do believe she would. In fact, since we're m...married...you should meet her! And my father too. You should meet both my parents!" he awaits your reaction nervously. "What a fantastic idea! Let's go find them. Where are they buried?" You ask enthustiastically. "Oh, there's one slight problem..." Sunghoon whispers. "What is it?" "They're not from around here." You ask him where they are, and Sunghoon points his finger up indicating that they are still alive and breathing.

You take him to an elderly who helped creating a potion that took him and you back to the living world. You both pop up in a cementray in the night while it all had become gray again. You take a moment to yourself, missing the moonlight, so you dance under the trees, catching his full attention as your dress resembled smoke. You took a deep breath in and asked him which house was his. Sunghoon takes a moment and points to one on the right, which isn't his own home, but Wonyoung's. "Why don't I go first to prepare things?" He lies, and you trust him. After Sunghoon had ran away in the dark, the maggot and black widow appears again. Complementing her by how immensly trusting she is, but with a backhanded meaning to their words.

You now think about the situation. Sunghoon is here, in the living world, where he had mentioned a girl he was suppose to marry. With determination, you followed the path Sunghoon had previously taken. You climb up the balcony, hearing voices. "Sunghoon, what's wrong?" You hear a young female voice ask. "I seem to have found myself married. And you should know it is unexpected." He replies hesitantly. You push yousefl up at last, accidentally detaching your leg in the process. "Oh dear, and I did so want to make a good impression! I couldn't wait, darling. I wanted to meet …" Your tone sounded cherry at the start but gradually lost its light after looking up post fixing your leg. You see Wonyoung standing in front of you. Upon seeing this, you wrap one of your arms around Sunghoon's.

"Darling. Who is this?" You sneer at her. "Sunghoon! Who...What is this?" Wonyoung says horrified when she sees the ring on your finger. Sunghoon's head turns to you then Wonyoung once too many times. "Wonyoung, wait you don't understand! I can assure you it is not what you think- She's dead! Look!" He takes your boney arm and flaps it back and forth causing Wonyoung to scream. "Who is she?" You ask. "Yang Wonyoung. The girl I'm supposed to marry." Sunghoon admits. Suddenly the sound of loud banging is heard from through the door and muffled voices are heard yelling.

"You tricked me!" You say aggravated and grab his tightly, saying the word that the elder had told you to say if you wanted to return back to where you came from. Sunghoon panicks and yells for Wonyoung to save him.

"YOU LIED TO ME! Just to get back to that other woman!" You shout, your eyebrows knitted with anger. "Don't you understand. You are the other woman." Sunghoon says saddened, causing your heart to shatter. "No! You're married to me! She's the other woman!" Your hectic movements came to a halt as you wrapped your face with your bont hands and began to cry, Sunghoon is unsure of what to do and stands there awkwardly. The force of yoru tears makes your eye escape the socket, and with no other choice, Sunghoon picks it up and hands it to you again. "Look, I'm sorry....this just can't work." Sunghoon points out the elephant in the room that wasn't that obvious to you. "Why not? It's my eye isn't it?" You ask while putting it back in. "No...your eye is fine." "Really?" Your mood elevated and now you were looking at him lovetsruck again.

"Yes. Listen under different circumstances, well, who knows. But, we are just too different. I mean you're dead." He accentuates. "You should've thought about that before you asked me to marry you." You pout. "Why can't you understand? I'd never marry you!" The words struck you through the chest as if leavening a stinging sensation blooming in your chest. The words were sharp and they hurt you in ways you didn't expect Sunghoon to do. Instead of lashing out at him, you just hang your head down and turn around to walk out the elder's study, leaving Sunghoon feeling like sore thumb.

As you walk away with your head hung low, you pick up your old and dried wedding bouquet and name a couple of flowers, your sadness represented in your tone. Sunghoon can do nothing but watch as you walk away. Your two companions, the Black Window and Maggot are perched on your shoulders like birds as they tell you that Sunghoon isn't someone worth your precious mind and tears, in hopes to cheer you up.

Sunghoon walks up to you in the restaurant with the bouqet in hand, his steps are cautious in the still envirounment. "I think you dropped this..." He whispers, approaching closer and closer to you who is playing with the piano. You don't need to spare him or the flowers a glance before snatching them. "I'm sorry. I'm sorry I lied to you about wanting to meet my parents. Truth is, I'm happier not to see them." he apologises, but you don't turn around nor acknowledge his attendance. The green maggot pops out once more. "Oh! Save it for the living girls, Hoon. I think you've said quite enough already." He comments.

"I never meant to-" Sunghoon gets cut off by the Black Widow appearing once again. "I've had dozens of husbands, none as awful as you. You should be ashamed!" She snarls, her legs waving hysrerically, pointing to him. "But I..." The Maggot is not early to cut him off again and says, "You're married now and there's nothing anyone can do about it. You might as well get used to it." It sounds harsh, but deep down, Sunghoon knows and understands where it's coming from.

"Don't bother, you can't force him to like me." You sulk, your back hunched. "But I do like you. Truly. It's just this evening hasn't exactly been going accoding to...plan." Sunghoon says awkwardly rubbing the back of his neck. It is quiet for a while, so quiet that you'd hear a pin drop.

Sunghoon takes a seat on the chair beside you and begings playing on the piano with you. You paus and sneer at him before continuing. It continues like that, Sunghoon improvising and turning this to a duet. The melody is bitterweet yet loving, a tune for only the two of you. Gradually, you open up more, taking the spotlight for a riff, your hand popping off from your wrist and slides across the keys. You pick it up with a giggle. "Pardon my enthusiasm." "I like your enthusiasm."

IN THE VILLAGE SQUERE, spirits and skeletons are gathered with newfound energy to party. Sunghoon looks at the tear of his jacket, and before he can stare at it any longer, Black Widow appears and sews it up again, making it seem like a new jack. All the commotion is interupted by a 'newcomer'. Everyone is eager to see who it is, and Sunghoon almost immedietly calls out for the familiar figure. After chit-chatting with him, Sunghoon learns that Wonyoung is to be married with none other than Heeseung, one of the closest people to his family. Not too far away, you observe his reaction with your eyebrows knitted.

The decorations are set and everyone is cheering and celebrating. You happened to find an elder and speaks with him for a while about marriages. He tells you how it was back in his days when vows where simple and got done with rather quickly after you mentioned how quick yours and Victors were. "Lucky for me, I didn't have to! I was rather silent!" You joke, and when you look at him again, he is dead silent, not moving at all. "Excuse me?" He asks. "I was rather silent?" You repeat, now a lot more hesitant and unsure. "You didn't say your vows?" You shake your head. "My child, you muct both say the vows for the marriage to be binding." The air is still as you stare at each other. You had accidenatlly tricked Sunghoon this whole time, and now you were afraid he'd know about this and run away.

"Surely there's some way to fix this?" You're desperate to get an answer now. "You'll have to complete the cermony by saying your vows." "I'll say them right now!" Your breath is caught in your air way as you choke this out only for the elder to shake his head. He tells you that since the original cermony occured in the land of the living, your vows will need to be in the land of the living as well. Your bones are shaking and you can't bear to hear someone else tell you to be 'reasonable'. If you want to go to the living world, then so be it, but you don't want him to tell you that maybe the two of you weren't meant to be. You wanted to cry out of anger, it was as if nothing you ever desired would land in your arms easily. You have had enough of this.

"Listen up people! Listen up! There's a change of venue! Grab what you can and follow me! We're moving this party." Everyone cheers in excitement, but the elder has a look of concern on his face. While on the way, people rocket quesntions your way, and you ramble out an answer in an instant, not wanting to seem suspicious to Sunghoon in any way.

IN THE WORLD OF THE LIVING You and Sunghoon are close like a set. It is all well and the elder flips through a book as you and Sunghoon joing him for the ceremony. "Let's get straight to the vows. Living first." He bows to Sunghoon. You slip the ring off your finger and place it in his palm, he smiles at you, and you smile back, but there's a piece of guilt in your heart. After he finishes his vows, putting the ring back on your finger, the elder motions for you to say your vows. You take a deep breath in and began to speak, but half-way through you spot a familiar face hiding in the courner of the place, horror written on her face, it was Wonyoung.

"I can't" You pause. "What's wrong?" Sunghoon asks confused. "This is wrong." You let a tear roll down your cold cheek. Once again, you pull the ring off your finger. As you look at him you recall the desperate moments you shared with Sunghoon, it was embarrasing to think that this could be; the living and the dead. It all added up likes puzzle pieces and you were finally ready to accept the truth that stung so badly, leaving a permanent scar deep, deep within the old ones that are yet to heal.

"I LOVE YOU, Sunghoon, but you're not mine. My dreams were stolen from me, and now I've taken them from someone else." You look over at where you had seen the young lady, Wonyoung, before, and Sunghoon does so too. "Wonyoung!" he whispers to himself at the sight. Upon being the new centre of attention, you ask Wonyoung to come forward, and she does. You take her hand in yours, and asks Sunghoon for his as well. You gently place his on top of her hers, happy for them to finally be reunited. "Oh, how touching. I always cry at weddings." Another familiar voice calls out, and everyone looks over at the gate to reveal Heeseung causing the trio to gasp. "Our young lovers together at least. Surely now they can live happily ever after." He walks upp to the altar and grabs Wonyoung by the wirst, succesfully snatching her away from you two.

"you." you whisper, your pupils shrinking at the horrid sight. "y/n?" He echoes, equally as shocked. "You!" you repeat angered. "but-but, I left you" He stutters, and you finish his sentence, "for dead." This statement causes everyone in the crowd to gasp. Heeseung does his best to escape, even pulling a sword from someone's body only to first aim it at Wonyoung's throat and then at Sunghoon who challenge him to a duel. It is an intense chase of cat and mouse before Sunghoon gets knocked down on the floor, the sword aimed at his face. Heeseung doesn't hesitate to strike his sword at him, and you don't hesitate either to come in between, grebbing the sword that had stuck in between your ribs. You pulled it out and aimed it at him.

"get out." you ordered him. "Oh, I'm leaving." he says, walking up to the altar and grabbing a cup from the table all whilst you're still on guard. "But first, a toast to y/n!" he says raising his cup with red liquid. "Always the bridesmaid, never the bride. Tell me, my dear, can a heart still break once it stopped beating? hmm?" His words are harsh, leaving yet another scar. You silenly watch as he takes a gulp of the cup which he thinks is wine, but is actually poision, and he dies just before he manages to get out of the building.

While the rest of the corpses takes care of the now dead Heeseung, Sunghoon and Wonyoung are snuggled together. "I never thought I'd see you again." You walk away, not wanting to disturb their moment until you hear the male voice call out for you to wait. "I made a promise." He says, chasing behind you. "you kept your promise. you set me free. Now, I can do the same for you." You say one last time, pulling the ring off your finger and encaving it in his palm by clasping yours around his before turning around. The tears are eager to escape, but you wont let them, not now at least. With one last glace behind, your throw the bouquet in your grasp to the newly made couple with a smile before you stepped out in the bright moonlight. The second it hits your veil, it began to crumble and turn into small butterlies and just like that, you disappeared with no regrets.

TAGLIST : @dollyhoon @itjengirl @saeivra @orimuraa @pshwrldd

[letmetellyouaboutmyfeels]

why are people so against oliver and ryan talking about buddie, don't we want this, don't we want buddie to be canon? i'm sorry are we rooting for buck to end up with tommy or something, like I don't understand why so many people are saying stop asking them about buddie?

If we want Buddie then shouldn't we be asking buddie questions? I mean I'm so sorry but I'm just very confused, shouldn't we be happy that buddie is getting this much press and love? Why are we against it?

Okay, this is going to be a long one.

There are a few reasons why people are concerned about publications teasing Buddie happening and using the ship name and asking Oliver and Ryan about the ship. I'll try to be as concise as possible.

I would like to note, I'm not going to answer a bunch of questions about this. Other people have answered similar questions plenty of times, if you take a bit to look around 911blr. I'm sure @catdadeddie has gone into this a few times.

However, I understand that we are getting a lot of new fans this season, and so I want to try and explain comprehensively for those who haven't been around. I hope this covers everything.

Whenever a ship is between two people of the same gender as opposed to two people of the opposite gender (I know, I know, but we can't get into the gender spectrum right now just play along with me), everyone involved has to be very, very careful when it comes to talking about that ship ahead of said ship going canon.

It is very easy to slip into something called "queerbaiting." I'm assuming that you and most people online and in fandom by now have heard of this term but just in case: queerbaiting is when a show acts like a queer ship might happen in marketing and promotion in order to draw in a queer audience.

Historically, this was done by having a main character played by a woman have a romantic thing with another woman (flirting, even kissing!) who was a guest star, hinting at the main character's bisexuality/queerness, only for that guest star to never come back and for the show to act like it had never happened. This was done during something called, IIRC, "sweeps week" which was basically an important week for TV viewer ratings in the 90s. It was a way to boost your numbers by drawing in queer viewers with the promise of actual queer rep that then wasn't realized. It's a marketing tactic.

Nowadays the nature of queerbaiting has changed a bit. It's an overused term that frankly people love to (mis)use whenever a ship of theirs doesn't go canon and a show dares to do things like having two people (like say Ryan and Oliver) who play the two halves of the ship do an interview together (whether you ship Buddie or not, they are close friends, and it makes sense that they'd do a few interviews together - that is not queerbaiting). A good example of real queerbaiting is Rizzoli & Isles which, among other things, took out billboards and magazine spreads showing the characters (two women) in suggestively sexual and romantic positions and with slogans hinting that the two had more than just friendship together, then never, ever delivered on it and in fact laughed at the idea of the characters being gay for each other.

(I WAS THERE, GANDALF!!!)

Because of this unfortunate treatment of queer audiences and the (historic) dearth of actual queer characters and queer ships going canon (it's getting better but still), networks, showrunners, and so on have to be very careful when, say, they want to make a queer ship canon.

Look at how ABC handled Chenford, a popular ship in their show The Rookie. Chenford was not a planned ship - the fans adored the chemistry between the two characters (Lucy Chen and Tim Bradford), the writers liked the idea and decided to lean into it, ABC gave the go-ahead, and the ship officially got together and went canon last season. ABC heavily promoted Chenford and the ship and made a lot of jokes about it in the last couple of seasons leading into the ship going canon, using the ship heavily in their marketing.

ABC cannot necessarily do that with Buddie, because even if Buddie is going canon, until that happens, they could get accused of queerbaiting. There's a much bigger minefield to navigate because of this historic misuse of queer audiences and queer characters.

So whenever journalists and publications use a popular non-canonical queer ship name for clicks and fandom interest, if that ship doesn't immediately go canon or if the network/showrunner/etc doesn't say "yeah they're totally gonna kiss! with tongue!" people accuse the show of queerbaiting. This is unfair to the show for two reasons: one, the network is not going to bother sending "shut the fuck up" letters to every single damn publication out there for using a ship name in their headline and talking about a ship - they'll be accused of homophobia and it draws even MORE attention to the issue re: the Barbra Streisand effect (look it up); and two, the people involved in the show are NOT going to spoil the anticipation and surprise by admitting ANY ship is going to go canon before it does.

This is simple marketing - the movie trailer doesn't (or shouldn't, anyway) show you the ending of the movie or everything that happens in it. TV shows want you to tune in every week and speculate and guess. They're not gonna spoil a ship ahead of time.

This means that when journalists and articles pull this shit, they're putting the showrunner, the writers, the actors doing interviews, and the network in a bad situation that they can't really do anything about. Not without causing more mess.

So that's reason number one why a lot of us are annoyed: by yelling about Buddie, these articles and journalists are setting the cast and crew we love up to get yelled at for queerbaiting if Buddie doesn't immediately happen, and there's nothing the cast and crew can do about it, and it's all so the journalists and articles can use us, the fandom, for clicks. So we're also kinda getting used here, and it doesn't feel great.

The second reason we're annoyed about Buddie questions is that it's being asked of the actors who, nine times out of ten, have ZERO CONTROL OVER THE STORYLINES.

Now, there are exceptions. Jennifer Love Hewitt, who plays Maddie, has pushed back on a couple storylines that were given to her and has therefore had a strong hand in shaping Maddie's character. One infamous (in a positive way) example is that Maddie and Eddie were supposed to be an endgame couple. JLH, however, immediately loved the character of Chimney and clicked with Chim's actor Kenneth Choi, so she asked if Maddie could get with Chim instead, feeling he'd be a better fit for her character. And lo, both the beautiful ship Madney and the insanity that is Buddie shipping was born because Buck ended up stepping into that co-parenting-Chris role that Maddie obviously would've originally filled.

However, it should be noted that JLH was an established star before coming onto 9-1-1, and her husband is friends with Tim the showrunner. I would argue that the only other two actors who have any power on their storylines are Peter and Angela, the latter because she can do whatever she wants forever, and the former because (like Angela) he is an executive producer on the show.

It's not that actors never ever get to have a say ever, but the writers, showrunner, and network have much more power. They create the storylines, they make the decisions. Not actors. So when the actors are repeatedly asked about a ship, they're put in an awkward position where they might not even know the full storyline for their character that season and now they need to answer in a way that doesn't reveal any information they do know, but also doesn't insult shippers or dash their hopes. This is a double minefield for queer ships because, again: historic insults to queer fans and characters, nobody wants to be offensive.

The third reason is that this fandom has, historically, treated Tim, Oliver, and others like absolute dogshit over Buddie not going canon. Oliver's left Twitter and taken big social media breaks because of how he was yelled at online. It's not cool, guys. Vent all you want but directing it at the cast and crew isn't okay and maybe if it was just you talking sternly that would be fine (maybe) but when it's dozens of people? It's bullying. Full stop.

Every single time Buddie has not gone canon instantly, the actors and others have gotten verbally abused on social media. Every time the actors have been asked about Buddie and not said "ohmygod yes I want it to happen so bad" (they are not allowed to say this because it might create false hope because again: historical queerbaiting) they've gotten yelled at. We are tired of the actors getting yelled at over something over which they have no control.

The fourth reason is that Oliver, especially, has gotten asked about Buddie a LOT. A lot. The poor man is very tired. He's been cornered about Buddie and asked about it aggressively by certain journalists (one journalist, Max Gao, actually tried to corner Gavin who plays Chris over Buddie - this was a few years ago so Gavin was even younger than he is now and I personally think that is an incredibly unfairly loaded question to give to a child).

If I may dive into speculation for a moment, given how the actors have been SO gleeful about the move to ABC, the fact that they've admitted ABC is letting them do storylines and little moments that FOX wouldn't, and a few other things I won't get into here because this damn thing is long enough already... I suspect FOX would not let Buddie happen. If this is the case, then actors being asked about Buddie is even more loaded because they are being asked questions about it and they can't say "yeah we want to but the network won't let us." THEY WILL GET FIRED FOR THIS.

But, whether or not my speculation is true, the fact remains that when you are repeatedly, over and over, aggressively asked if this fan ship is going to happen or not, you get tired. There's only so many times that someone can give a diplomatic answer before you just want to snap "stop fucking asking me!" Journalists love to take advantage of fandom and social media chatter to get attention for their articles so asking over and over again about Buddie isn't because they genuinely care or think it'll happen, it's to get shippers reading their article, and so bombarding the actors and writers with this question when they've already kinda said their peace a lot about it is frustrating. Just! Leave them alone!

And AGAIN: if this was a M/F ship there could maybe be room for teasing the will-they-won't-they but because of historically bad treatment of queer characters and fans, THEY CANNOT DO THAT. So the only option open to them is to KEEP THEIR MOUTHS SHUT. And keeping one's mouth shut and threading that diplomatic needle for years is EXHAUSTING.

We do want Buddie to be canon, nonny, and in my opinion we are going to get it. All this recent PR supports that, (again: in my opinion).

However, we have seen Oliver get bombarded with what he thinks about Buddie until the cows come home, and he deserves a break. There's nothing new he can say, there's nothing new he's allowed to say. We have seen other parts of the fandom scream that we're being queerbaited because Buddie didn't instantly go canon, without any consideration for the fact that a) queerbaiting is a marketing tactic and b) there might be other factors at play preventing it going canon. We have seen journalists take advantage of us, the shippers, in order to get attention, and we have seen them create an awkward and embarrassing atmosphere in interviews by repeatedly asking about the ship. We have seen shippers make us look bad by hounding the cast and crew on social media about Buddie, treating every woman actress who plays a Buck/Eddie love interest like shit (yes, I know about Edy, but she could be a saint and parts of the fandom would still go onto Instagram to call her names), and generally being absolute pills that would tempt any showrunner, actor, or writer to say "y'know what fuck 'em let's not make Buddie canon I'm not rewarding this shitty behavior."

"If we want Buddie then shouldn't we be asking Buddie questions?" No. Not like journalists and fans have been. It's something to bring up - in my opinion - sparingly and with an awareness of how queer storylines and ships and fandom have been mocked, ignored, baited, and so on over the years. They don't ask about Buddie because they give a shit. They ask because they want our clicks for their ad revenue and they want our retweets and likes and comments. And it's certainly not something to bombard the actors with on social media and bitch at them if it doesn't happen. It just makes the rest of fandom look bad and makes us look like children.

Additionally: These are not new questions! They're not only asking these questions now that it looks like Buddie will go canon, with serious hope and consideration based on the marketing and storylines. They've been asking this since season fucking two, when Buddie was clearly not planned, just to get fangirl (gn) clicks. They wanted to get attention and teehee over how Oliver/Ryan/whoever reacted to people thinking Buck and Eddie should touch dicks. 'Kay?

We know the pattern. So when every piece of media is screaming BUDDIE!!! we are not seeing it as "OMG could we go canon?" We see it as another round of being taken advantage of for article attention, another round of parts of the fandom being bullies and yelling about being baited, and another round of the actors being backed into uncomfortable corners.

That's why we're concerned, worried, and annoyed.

*collapses* I hope this covered everything and explained it all.

[exhuastedpigeon]

Buddie Hiatus Fic Rec - Month 8 Nov 16 - Dec 15

Previous lists under the cut at the bottom

0-5k

merle said mama tried, but the prison still won by oklahoma / @sunshinediaz Teen | 2.9k Eddie goes to (mall) jail.

do you love me? all you gotta do is say yes by fleetinghearts / @shitouttabuck Teen | 3.1k two boy best friends and an ex lover walk into a grocery store. everyone is on their normalest behaviour.

drawstrings by browney3dgirl6 / @hoodie-buck Mature | 3.7k Eddie helps Buck fix his drawstrings. How was he supposed to know it’d lead to him sitting in Bucks lap?

Here Comes the Jackpot Question In Advance by lamardeuse / @lamardeuse Teen | 4.1k Buck is determined to start the new year right.

5k-10k

I'm still standing in the same place where you left me standing by trysetmeonfire / @try-set-me-on-fire Teen | 8.3k Bobby deals with the ramifications of a misplaced confession

10k-20k

Don't Push Me So Far Away I Can't Reach You by giselleslash. / @gigi-gigi Mature | 12k the one where Buck thinks he and Eddie are just friends with benefits so he pushes Eddie to date other people because he’s an idiot.

give it to someone special by rainbow_nerds / @rainbow-nerdss Mature | 12.3k Buck and Eddie meet at the airport after their respective girlfriends live their Hallmark movie dreams and dump them right before Christmas.

into thirty separate parts by hammersmiths / @henswilsons Teen | 12.6k Taylor’s book comes out.

sang to the sea for feelings deep blue by Tizniz / @tizniz General audiences | 14k The 118 responds to a cruise ship emergency.

20k - 30k

say (don't) go by bccalling / @fiona-fififi Teen | 20.4k Eddie starts dropping hints he wants more kids. Buck assumes he means with Marisol. Buck spirals about it. Eddie does not mean with Marisol.

deck the halls (and your in-laws) by oklahoma / @sunshinediaz Mature | 29.6k Eddie and Buck, recently married and moved into their new house, have the (dis)pleasure of unexpectedly hosting their parents through the holiday season. It’s not what either of them want or need, but they can get through it because they’re in this together. Right?

30k +

Facets of a Diamond by countrygirlsfun / @acountrygirlsfun Teen | 35.1k Southern California is where Buck has spent the most time since leaving Pennsylvania. Of all the places he’s lived and worked over the last few years, this place is where he decided to stay. It’s why he picked LAFD: to put down some roots. It’s warm, has the ocean, and it’s the opposite coast of his parents. So if he’s going to be here for a while, he thinks he’ll need to make an effort to let people in.

Sweet Nothing by LongConvolutedSimiles Teen | 37.8k Buck and Eddie go on dates, fall in love and get together. Yes in that order.

Maybe More Than I Should by Leslie_Knope Mature | 51.5k Eddie caught sight of the man leaning against the side of his desk and immediately wanted to retreat to the relative safety of the hallway, back in time when he lived happily not knowing that Mr. Buckley was apparently some kind of male model masquerading as a third-grade teacher.

it walks with my legs (to fall at your feet) by Underhung_Aura / @eddiebabygirldiaz Explicit | 61.8k a buddie summer sons au where buck and eddie get caught up in something bigger than themselves and awaken a power that haunts them for the rest of their lives; however, the unspoken truths and love between them haunts them more than any ghost ever could.

a blaze in the dark by woodchoc_magnum / @woodchoc-magnum Explicit | 117k Set post-Season 6, where Buck has inadvertently sacrificed his friendship with Eddie in order to focus on his new relationship with Natalia, and is shocked when Eddie comes out to the team and subsequently reveals that he is dating a guy.

All My Shattered Oaths by letmetellyouaboutmyfeels / @letmetellyouaboutmyfeels Explicit | 120k Eddie wants to stay away from his family’s legacy and give his son a normal life. Buck’s desperate to find a way to get over the love he lost. Fate has other plans for both of them.

Month 1 (May 15 - June 15) Month 2 (June 16 - July 15) Month 3 (July 16 - August 15) Month 4 (August 16 - September 15) Month 5 (September 16 - October 15) Month 6 (October 16 - November 15) Month 7 (November 16 - December 15)

[chaos0pikachu]

so this isn't a fully formed thought and I think some of the confusion/lackluster feel towards the past lives/karma backstory is b/c the show's made what seems to be some pretty prominent changes to the novel. Which has flatten things some b/c the doctor is less of a complex char and more of a by-the-by antagonist to Phaya and Tharn's love.

But after last episode their backstory reminded me a lot of The Legend of White Snake, which is considered one of China's four great folktales - alongside Lady Meng Jiang, Butterfly Lovers, and The Cowherd and the Weaver Girl - like any folktale it's changed a lot over the centuries but the gist is:

A female snake demon/spirit (I've seen demon and spirit used interchangeably in English but "spirit" is probably closer to the intent), White Snake or Bai Suzhen falls in love with a human man - sometimes a doctor sometimes a herbalist - named Xu Xian. She hides the fact she's a snake spirit from Xu Xian and the two marry. Then a Buddhist monk, Fa Hai, shows up and realizes Bai Suzhen is a snake spirit. He threatens her to reveal herself and she refuses. He tells Xu Xian she's a snake spirit but he doesn't believe him so Fa Hai gives him a potion to reveal she's a snake. She falls asleep after drinking it and poof, transforms into her snake spirit form. In most tellings of the folktale he usually dies of shock seeing her transformation and Bai Suzhen goes on a journey to bring him back to life with her companion Green Snake (Xiaoqing). Husband resurrected Xu Xian tells her he loves her snake spirit or no and they decide to remain together.

But Fa Hai is a sour ass bitch about it and is like, nah. He kidnaps Xu Xian and is like "y'all can't be together!!" (regina george voice) so Bai Suzhen goes to save her husband and fights Fa Hai and like floods the land and shit (she's super powerful). She gets trapped in the Leifeng Pagoda and is punished for her crimes by staying in there separated from her husband (and sometimes son depends on the adaption).

In some cases she's trapped forever and Xu Xian becomes a monk - pretty sure this is the ending of Jet Li's film adaption of the story which made me fucking BAWL - in other cases her sons filial piety and merits in his life impresses and moves the Gods who allow her to be free and reunite with her family - this is the ending of one of the TV show adaptions.

So like, the fuck does this have to do with The Sign?

So like, in every adaption of White Snake that I've seen - which at this point is four - I'm always very much like "free my girl she did nothing wrong!!" but like flooding the land and upsetting Buddha IS wrong even if you did it ~for love~ it's why she gets punished in the end (no matter the adaption she's always trapped/punished & separate from her man) and released b/c her sons merits move the Gods enough to earn her freedom.

So on the surface it doesn't look like Tharn and Phaya did anything wrong, but idk we're only halfway through the story still.

If Tharn was engaged to Chalothon in his past life - and he was a woman - then him and Phaya DID cause harm to Chalothon even if they didn't love Chalothon.

Whether we, the audience, consider it harm or not (audiences tend to be fine with affairs/cheating if we're supposed to be "rooting" for the couples I notice). We also don't know the fallout - if any - happened post Phaya and Tharn's affair. It might be they have to earn merits to earn the right to be together - like Bai Suzhen did via her son - either by "saving" Chalothon from his obsession or some other means.

To me their story is closer to White Snake than Romeo and Juliet (which ISN'T a tragic tale of love). But right now, I feel like we have to little information. I've read novel spoilers and like, it makes more sense in the novel to me than the show currently. I'm hoping the show is able to kinda right the ship a bit as we continue to peel back layers of what happened and what's going to happen.

[rappaccini]

okay spidergwen 4d chess is evolving to spidergwen 8d chess for this one.

if synergy with the spiderverse movies got comics-gwen into this crisis of character consistency where gwen can't go home to earth 65, can't come out of the closet, and can't even refer to herself as an adult, the long game for neutralizing gwiles and restoring gwen's character is using synergy to pull her out of it.

but even then it's gonna be a fucking rollercoaster ride that could derail at any time and the realistic best-case scenario will still lead to gwiles happening again, just makorrafied.

here's the short version:

now walk with me:

first, gwen's always been and always will be subject to synergy. all comics characters are, but gwen is especially vulnerable to it.

her creation in 2014 right after the general audience learned gwen died barely a year ago in amazing spider-man 2, ship teasing her with peter immediately and and being kept on a pedestal away from all spider-men but him? absolutely meant to capture emma stone/andrew garfield nostalgia. to the point where the original voice in people's heads when they read gwen's comics was absolutely emma's.

ten years ago, petergwen was the original gwiles. it was a ship between gwen and a far more popular spider-man that reduced her to the role of supportive girlfriend, took her away from her world, her stories and the people who love her, prevented her from being her own person-- and wouldn't let her explore her sexuality. and it felt like a given that it would happen.

like i remember reading those original spiderverse comics in 2014, being afraid gwen was just going to be a plot device to make peter parker sad. that she'd get killed by morlun at the end of the arc, and he'd have even more gwen angst. and then, after she lived, that he'd throw away decades of development for a terrible fling with a barely-legal variant of his dead girlfriend.

instead, that didn't happen. because a lot of writers and editors worked like fuck for years to keep it from happening. they kept them apart, or kept their interactions on a tight leash. now, ten years later, peter and gwen's interactions have a big brother/little sister vibe. they're out of the danger zone. the consensus is "peter and gwen sometimes have tension early in their dynamic, but they get past it and stay friends" and that's rippled out into other media's spider-peter and spider-gwen dynamics (the marvel's spider-man cartoon? does exactly that. gwen and peter have a shiptease, but ultimately stay friends).

the arrival of the spiderverse movies did half the heavy lifting, because gwen's character started taking cues from those movies instead. the pressure to pair peter/gwen shifted to miles/gwen.

it went nowhere for a bit. they aren't friends. they just team up occasionally in group settings. miles is with tiana toomes and gwen's solo, while it lasted, gave her a few dates with harry and she's one conversation away from getting together with em jay. it felt like they were leaving the danger zone too.

but atsv pushed them back in the red. now years of the same anti-petergwen care must be applied to salvage that dynamic and protect gwen's character in the comics and any other media where she appears (movies? games? cartoons? same principle. keep them the fuck apart and give them other love interests to kill that vibe before it can poison anything else).

there's still a clear road out and a few different ways to get there. one of the simplest ones is the same way we got into this mess: use the synergy.

it takes time, careful writing, an alternate ship, and a new property for editorial to leech off of to change the flow of synergy and stop a bad plotline from taking root.

so... where do we seem to be going, and how can we escape?

the spiderverse era:

we know the drill: spiderverse synergy yields an ongoing where editorial wants gwen away from earth 65, in the multiverse, hanging around peter and miles, ambiguously a teenager, and the writer has no choice but to follow those edicts if they want the gig. we've done this already with the mcguire run. we're doing it again right now with the phillips run. we'll probably do it at least one more time when btsv hits.

itsv synergy led to gwen exploring the multiverse when not on 65 (and a character beat where miles crushes on her and she's totally indifferent), the book flopping and getting canned 10 issues in, a relaunch about commuting from 65 to 616 with her eventually moving to 616 for good, that one getting canned after 10 issues too, gwen hanging around 616 and helping out in a few events, and then several multiverse-themed miniseries that put gwen back in 65 without much explanation, eventually ending in her back home for the whole story... and getting extremely close to coming out of the closet and starting a romance with em jay.

atsv synergy is trying to plant gwen in 616 For Good this time, and putting her in a few movie-tie-in events to seal the deal... and nobody wants it. the announcement of gwen's new status quo was met with annoyance and indifference from non-gwen fans, and disappointment from gwen fans. nobody wants this thing except for a minority of hardcore gwiles shippers who don't even buy her comics.

we're probably looking at a similar pattern as last time's attempt: a flop that's canned after a few arcs (maybe even 10 issues), a possible stab at gwiles during the book, a possible relaunch and likely second flop if the 616 status quo is kept, then back to miniseries that gradually return her to her own world. (it would be great if gwen keeps her ongoing and is quietly sent back to 65, possibly even with the same writer, but we can't bet on that.)

btsv comes out in 3-5 years. whatever progress gwen does make towards making it home will likely be yanked back because we'll probably rinse and repeat the sv synergy shit again: another gwen-in-616/multiverse-themed ongoing relaunch that flops, followed by miniseries, probably with gwiles round 3 cranked up even harder somewhere along the way.

-> but maybe 🤞 with gwen confirmed as bisexual by that point. they might not let gwen get a girlfriend in under 5 years, but letting her say "i'm bi" feels possible. she's one conversation away from coming out, and her writers keep putting her in queercoded storylines with women she has chemistry with. at some point, all that momentum's going to break through.

for the immediate future, it's not looking good.

what's that? it's cindy moon with a steel chair!

by then the moonissance should be underway thanks to the insomniac spider-man 3 game dropping around btsv. cindy moon/silk is insomniac's spider-woman instead of ghost-spider.

yes, there was that scrapped multiplayer concept where spider-gwen's a prominent character. but it was scrapped.

if gwen's in the games, she'll have a supporting role, most likely as a civilian, hopefully not as peter or miles' love interest. maybe as cindy's.

-> if gwen is miles's interest, fuck. (unlikely: insomniac's pretty committed to hailey, and tiana toomes is semi-canon thanks to a tie-in novel. it's more likely for them to favor those love interests than cram gwen in out of nowhere.)

-> if she's peter's, it's annoying but salvageable. (also unlikely: it'd be pretty dumb to build up peter/mj as a committed relationship just to replace her with gwen right as they're about to settle down)

-> ... but if she's cindy's? this might be the ace in the hole.

if ism3 comes out before btsv, btsv instantly becomes outdated for putting gwen back in the closet for a straight ship. that poisons the gwiles synergy well ("are you really sure you want to get them together if it means turning miles into the kind of homophobic douchebag who'd shove gwen back in the closet so he can kiss her whenever he wants?").

if ism3 comes out after, then gwiles's chokehold on the post-btsv fandom gets an immediate rebuttal, and if comics-gwen was forced into a romance with miles during the btsv synergy era, cindy gives her a clear path out: coming out, possibly leaving miles for cindy (... and, since miles's reputation is the one they'll want to protect, giving him a way to step aside that makes him look good by framing him as an ally who graciously gives up his romance so gwen can be happy). no matter what, gwiles takes a serious hit and is forever associated with gwen being in the closet.

if gwen's not openly bi in the comics yet, they might go there to ride insomniac's coattails, and tease a gwen/cindy ship for synergy's sake. we keep insisting on em jay being gwen's first girlfriend, but cindy might be the dark horse who takes it.

(even if it's just queerbait, fine. it's another female love interest dangled in front of gwen, and it makes both characters' queerness harder to deny.)

then we have the spiderverse spin-off spider-women to contend with. first, it may not happen at all; all three female superhero team movies we've gotten so far haven't done well financially or been fondly received, and we've gotten basically no info about sw other than a vague suggestion that they still want to do it.

if it happens, it'll be 3-5 years after btsv.

and if spider-women releases... first of all, gwen might be single after the events of btsv, or she'll get a birds-of-prey-2020 plot about finding herself after breaking up with miles, which are the better scenarios but the most unlikely. in the event that sv gwen is still Miles's Girlfriend, the plot is supposedly intended to be a multiversal adventure centering gwen, jess drew and cindy moon so hopefully he won't be in it much or at all.

regardless, there's going to be a comic tie-in. synergy will send gwen on an interdimensional team-up event with whoever the cast are. and since cindy's going to be riding high off ism3... even if she isn't in sw, she'll still probably appear in some capacity, and this'll likely be the second round of synergy that pairs her and gwen.

no matter the context of the relationship or whether sw releases, gwen and cindy's bond is likely to get a big focus in a few years. it's just a question of what kind of relationship it'll be. are gwen and cindy going to be friends, harley-and-ivy-circa-2013-'friends' or a canon couple?

and even if gwen doesn't appear at all in the games or they're not shipped at all, cindy is on track to become the new Default Spider-Woman: she's a lead in one of the biggest games in the world, which will definitely be released, there's a slim chance the tv series might be revived, and cindy will almost certainly be in spider-women and is likely to be the breakout character of that lineup. even if only the game happens, cindy will still be the newest, hottest toy to play with.

which means in 5-10 years, we're either looking at a spider-quad, with peter, miles, gwen and cindy... or, since trios are easier to adapt and market, cindy could get the push from editorial to replace gwen as the One Girl in the trio and become the default female spider for a new generation of kids to relate to (... and more importantly, for their parents to buy merchandise of).

therefore, gwen could finally go home for good, assuming she hasn't already.

if gwen doesn't have an ongoing at the time spider-women happens, she'll probably get one again. or at the bare minimum, she'll get a mini.

possibly even as an openly bisexual character because even if gwen doesn't come out in the comics until then/isn't queer in the games, the resistance to her coming-out will be a lot smaller because:

-> a) the unspoken concern keeping gwen in the closet-- that making ghost-spider queer will lead homophobic parents to refuse to buy their kids her merch anymore-- will no longer be that big of a loss if it does happen, because if silk takes ghost-spider's place as the new Flagship Female Spider, it'll be expected that parents will be buying silk stuff for their kids instead. marvel's still getting their money, just from a different girl.

-> b) which means there's room to tap into a new market. and since the spider-gwen fandom that remain with her will be teens and young adults who would buy her shit even if she's queer (maybe even especially if she's queer)... well, there's your money.

-> c) the 'think of the children' excuse doesn't work if the children in question aren't kids anymore or aren't even into gwen in the first place because they're all about cindy, and if those kids' parents can't get mad at marvel for trying to market gwen to an audience of children when they aren't even doing that. remember, harley quinn didn't get to be canonically bi until she was repackaged as a more mature character for a primarily teen-to-adult audience.

-> d) just saying. the spiderverse is supposedly about showing how anyone can be a spider-hero... yet we still don't have a major canonically queer spider. that's the one part of the spiderverse that marvel's stayed quiet on. which means there's a gap to be filled in the story-- and (here's what marvel cares about:) an audience that has yet to be reached out to, who will give them money and good press when they do it.

gwen is the ideal character to be that first queer main spider-hero because it's a core part of her story, there's already a demand for it, and if the right choices are made about which characters and relationships to promote, the backlash to her coming out will fade away with time and become smaller than the potential gain.

we don't know what the climate for queer characters in kids' media will be in 6-10 years. maybe it'll be so good that gwen's queerness won't affect her presence in spider-man stories. maybe she'll be allowed to come out... and then quietly shuffled out of the main lineup. but even if marvel sidelines gwen away from the Straight Spiders, that benefits her character because it means there's a lot less pressure on her to be on earth-616. which means she can go home and stay there.

gwen's stories are already queer as hell, even with all the synergy and the pressure of being every little girl's spider-hero keeping her in the closet. when that weight is off her back, maybe that'll be all we need to go for it.

it took five years to get gwen away from amazing spider-man nostalgia and the threat of being Peter's Designated Girlfriend, and they did it with a combo of controlling their interactions to keep them from getting together and shifting to the spiderverse and making gwen Miles's Designated Girlfriend. it'll take ten more years to get her away from spiderverse synergy and the threat of gwiles. and the way to do that is to avoid miles wherever possible, keep building towards gwen's coming-out and shift to riding insomniac's coattails to get us there.

(hell, the five-year overlap opening will probably repeat too. in the five years between asm2 and itsv, peter/gwen started to fade away as she was pushed towards miles without being consistently shipped yet... which created an opportunity for gwen to develop romantic interests in harry, em jay and possibly hobie. there'll probably be one between btsv and spider-women, and insomniac spider-man 3 will be out by then. good time to get some distance from gwiles and give her a gf.)

the most efficient way to do this is by confirming gwen's bisexuality as fast as possible in the comics and games, but because of cindy taking gwen's place, the path's still there even if they don't move on it until after spider-women comes out.

... but then we'll have live-action miles probably in development for sony or the mcu, assuming it doesn't happen even sooner. there's no mention of a live-action spider-gwen solo movie or show in consideration (or even an animated show), so at this point, if gwen shows up in other media, it'll be as a supporting character in miles or peter's story.

and that could make or break things for good.

the live-action era:

we'll see how old she is compared to miles and peter, and who their love interests will be. that determines everything.

1) if it's a sony movie about miles, it's more likely than not that gwen's going to be his age/his love interest. sony made the spiderverse movies, lord and miller and pascal (who love the ship) would still probably have creative influence, everyone expects it, you know it's coming.

even if gwen isn't spider-gwen, editorial's gonna force another round of gwiles synergy all over again and the clock's reset to zero. insert another gwen-in-616 attempt, another forced gwiles attempt, another refusal to let her come out and another ten years of unraveling her from that mess.

-> and because it's live-action, everybody will have seen it. unlike video games and animated movies, which have broader appeal than comics, but are still somewhat limited.

-> but if it's a sony movie, it's probably gonna be a mess that'll leave a bad taste in people's mouths and not have much longevity. hopefully there'd be an opening to wiggle out of there.

-> if gwen isn't his love interest / isn't in the sony film at all, well there you go. whoever that girlfriend is will get a boost, and gwen will have that gwiles pressure off her back. it's possible. just don't be optimistic.

2) if it's a spiderverse teamup... pack it up. they'll shoehorn spider-gwen in since she's the most popular female spider-hero, she'll be a bland girlboss who'll probably be shipped with miles or peter. earth 65 takes another hit. the damage may be irreparable because spider-gwen will be seen by everyone as their love interest.

3) but in terms of the mcu, they'll definitely do miles someday, but they're gonna put peter first.

if i had to guess, peter's getting a college trilogy. maybe not after he has his 'neglect peter in favor of spider-man' arc, but he's gotta have his college movies at some point. when peter graduates at the end of sm6, and we no longer have a teen/young adult spider-man for kids to relate to, that's the ideal time to introduce miles. and THEN miles gets his high school trilogy with peter as a mentor figure.

and since gwen was peter's love interest before she was miles's, and peter's iconic college relationships haven't been adapted yet, there's a 50/50 chance that she'll be introduced there, along with harry and a more comics-accurate version of mj.

(if gwen's introduced as a member of miles's cast, we're fucked. plain and simple. the transfer from being a part of peter's cast to being part of miles's will be complete in the eyes of the audience. that shit's gonna follow her everywhere forever, especially since the mcu lasts for fucking ever.)

if gwen is peter's age, ESPECIALLY if peter and gwen are a couple in his college years, we might get out of the gwiles pit for good:

a) gwen might die before ever meeting miles. and even if she doesn't...

b) there's no bigger bro code violation than dating your friend's ex. let alone your mentor's ex

c) the ick of live action college-aged-or-older gwen and high-school aged miles is impossible to reconcile. sitting in a tree on steroids. everyone who sees them together in any other medium (comics, games, cartoons, you name it) is just going to picture those actors, and no one will be able to brush the age gap aside for as long as these movies and the versions of their characters last. and it's the mcu, so it'll last a damn while. even a possible reboot/sony version will have that baggage attached.

so if gwen dates peter first, she'll never date miles in live-action without it being hated by everyone. and the comics will never want to revisit a romantic connection between them as a result. even though spider-gwen =/= peter's-gf-gwen, nobody's gonna see it that way. we can work with that!

petergwen synergy might make its way back... but we all know there's zero chance he won't end up with mj, in the movies, in the comics, in anything, so there's less danger there. the most that'll happen is spider-gwen having to pat peter while he cries on his shoulder about his dead gwen. annoying, but not derailing.

if gwiles happens in live-action, it's game over for fully moving past gwiles and being queer for good. gwen might survive the animated movies on their own, but not the one-two punch of animated movies and live-action. that would guarantee that she'll always be seen as miles's love interest, that they can never be friends without that threat looming over them, and that any progress she makes away from miles will likely be temporary before she's inevitably dragged back to him by editorial. we'll have to rely on comics contrivances like one more daying it or dropping continuity to get her out of there, and those will never last for good.

but if petergwen happens in the mcu, that makes the likelihood of a comics gwiles revisit slim for a solid decade. which creates a decade's worth of opportunity for gwen to seek other love interests that'll make gwiles's status lessen in importance even more.

add the ten year window where gwiles can't stop gwen from being bi to whatever happens in the comics in between sv movies and after insomniac's spider-man series wraps up. the bi gwen momentum is already chugging away. that window could be filled with female love interests who actually get to stick around. (giving gwen male love interests will just signal to straight fans that she's available for a straight romance because straight people don't understand what bisexuality is. she has to date women for that label to stick and for people to get the message that she doesn't belong to miles or peter.)

i know i keep circling back to 'make gwen bi', but it's the truth. the way to escape spiderverse synergy, gwen being stuck as Miles's Girlfriend forever, and gwen getting away from being Spider-Man's Girlfriend for good has been the same since 2018.

make gwen bisexual.

(yes, bi. the spiderverse movies introducing spider-gwen to a generation of kids as a girl who's attracted to men guaranteed that she'll never be a lesbian or asexual in canon. have your headcanons, but it's too late for that to ever happen in reality. if you're gonna campaign for a canonically-queer spider-gwen, you have to ask for her to be bi because that's the only type of queer that stands a chance at being canon someday. get mad at lord and miller, not me.)

(it'd be awesome if spiderverse-gwen's trans coding catches on... but it's just not likely enough to realistically hope for. marvel's far more likely to standardize making gwen bi than trans, and it wouldn't occur to them that she could be both. which she'd have to be, because ignoring ten years of buildup to gwen coming out as sapphic and saying 'hey! she's this other kind of queer but is still only into men!' isn't satisfying. gwen can be trans, but must be bi.)

it's been built up so strongly in the comics that it's not really a question of if she's bi anymore. it's when will they say it out loud? and will it stick or be shoved under the rug so gwiles can happen?

that's the issue. gwen's never been closer to coming out. it could happen as early as the very next issue of her ongoing. it could be next month, next year, a few years, in a decade... or it could literally never happen at all, because she'll get crammed into a romance with miles and her queerness will be stifled to keep her with him. and we have no idea which it'll be. that's what's so frustrating: we have no idea if we're about to get everything we've been waiting an entire decade for, or if it's getting taken away forever and gwen'll end up being the girl chappell roan's singing about in good luck babe!.

(and that's the thing with gwiles. no matter how much chemistry they have, or how well-executed the romance is in the spiderverse movies or anywhere else, this ship can only happen if gwen stifles her queerness, her need to go home to the world full of people who love and need her and her story... and the longer it goes on, the more miles becomes responsible for doing that to her. it's a homophobic, misogynistic gut-punch to both characters disguised as a happy ending. the movies haven't fixed this. if anything, by introducing this romance to the general public, they've guaranteed it'll spread to other canon and delay or permanently cut off her coming-out arc.)

other media is the factor that can speed up gwen's coming-out and make it definitive, or slow it down and reduce gwen to momentary bursts of queerness in between nonstop gwiles slog.

but even if gwiles happens and sticks, it's not the end of the world.

the obvious narrative way out has already been stated earlier: gwen comes out of the closet and leaves miles to explore her sexuality, and miles supports her in doing it.

look, every time they've been shipped together so far, gwen has always rejected him and he just keeps pushing, but the writers and fandom keep ignoring gwen's feelings because this ship isn't about gwen, or miles-and-gwen. it's about miles getting what he wants, which is a pretty white girl with a famous name and superpowers who can't stand up to him. therefore, the only way out that'll stick is for miles to be the one to end things.

the best way to redeem him for the homophobic undertones of encouraging her to stay in a romance she isn't capable of wanting, is for him to voluntarily end the relationship, wish her well, and support her in exploring her queerness.

it's the best way to end the relationship with miles looking as good as possible. and since the fandom and marvel are very defensive about miles and his ego, they're gonna want it to end in a way that makes him the good guy.

and it's also how we make this ship too radioactive to return to. once you show miles realizing the girl he likes is queer, and putting his feelings aside to support her, he can never go on and try to date that queer girl again without it being a hideous character assassination.

that's the best way to do it. but there are others. comics are meant to last forever, so the story will never have an ending. even marriage and kids, the typical ending, can be retconned or walked back. like, peter and mj were married for years, and then they weren't and still haven't gotten back together even though literally everyone in the fandom keeps demanding it. if that can happen to one of the most famous couples in comics, gwen can sure as hell make a deal with mephisto to retcon her comphet brats out of existence, especially since gwen-8 already technically attempted it in the latour run. hopefully it doesn't get to that point though.

if it does, here are some comics-specific ways out that don't revolve around gwen coming out and leaving miles to be openly queer. i am very aware that they suck, so let's just not gwiles at all please.

it was all a mysterio-induced illusion.

gwilesified gwen was a clone the whole time, and real spider-gwen's trapped or hiding somewhere.

amnesia plot. they forget they were ever together.

pull a batcat or kitty/colossus wedding. huge event that aggressively advertises a wedding that ends in the bride getting cold feet, realizing how wrong the relationship is and leaving the groom at the altar. good for her. make the fandom so angry about being blueballed that they won't want to see her in close proximity with miles again.

have gwen cheat on miles with someone; even better if it's his friend. for maximum chaos make it his clone or his best friend's dad. (if miles cheats, he'll be forgiven. if gwen cheats, she'll be witchhunted for decades by his fans... which means they'll never get back together!🥳).

have gwen go out for cigarettes and a carton of milk one night and simply not come back. 1) she would. especially if earth-8 happens. 2) it would make the miles fans hate her.

... kill gwen off. (it'll never be miles.) have miles move on. and then when she's eventually resurrected she just never gets back together with him. if you're gonna force her to be Spider-Man's Girlfriend again, you may as well fridge her too. just go ahead and own that miles is just as bad for her as peter was. make the taste in our mouths about this ship so bad that we can never return to it.

drop the plot. just drop it. end one book and start another with them randomly not together and just never mention it again. you do a shit job with the rest of gwen's continuity. why not this?

one more day. nuclear option. the devil himself can break that marriage up and get rid of those kids.

wait a few decades for editorial to switch out and pray that the powers that be give a shit about gwen and will let this ship die. (they won't.)

speaking of.

.... post-first live action miles morales (so... twenty years from now):

alright i've come this far let me throw out a controversial expectation: they're gonna do gwiles again. they are. they just are.

much like the petergwen vibe, gwiles is going to be an unavoidable part of spider-gwen's character moving forward. sitting in a tree was rightly hated and aggressively ignored, but then the spiderverse movies dug up that storyline and pumped life back into it.

and now it's too late. the spiderverse movies are too beloved, popular and well-reviewed for gwiles not to happen again. marvel has hard proof that this couple will make them money, win them praise and avoid controversy. (... and they also know that making gwen miles's girlfriend is an effective way to stop her from being queer and cut off her coming-out arc from ever culminating into anything, while looking progressive). an entire generation of people-- especially children-- now expect gwiles whenever they see gwen or miles (even when they aren't even in the same place or are dating different people), perceive their romance as a good thing, and expect spider-gwen to be attracted to men.

when those kids grow up, some of them will become writers for marvel. and they'll do what the current writers do and resurrect the ghosts of their favorite childhood spider-man stories (which is why Gwen Stacy Death Nostalgia keeps happening even today; that's what the powers that be grew up with, and they're writing for the kids they used to be, not the kids that exist now). which means spiderverse nostalgia. which means gwiles. even if gwiles don't get together in the spiderverse movies, they'll still do it because they'll want to 'fix' that. and all it takes is one dumbass writer to make it happen. so it'll happen.

if the worst-case scenario of gwiles in btsv, gwiles in the games, gwiles in live-action, comic-gwen never goes home, marries miles and has the comphet spawn happens, well no shit the next generation of writers are gonna keep gwilesing. it's functionally over for her and she'll never meaningfully escape.

but even if the best-case scenario pipe dream of gwen never canonically dating him in any media post-btsv, going home to earth-65, coming out and only having romantic relationships with women happens (95% sure it won't)... gwiles is going to resurface in the comics in some capacity, and will probably reappear in other spider-gwen adaptations: games, movies, tv shows, you name it. the horse is out of the barn. it is too late to stop it. we will always have to deal with this ship.

what can be changed is the context in which the ship exists. the name of the game is now putting an end to the "endgame star-crossed soulmates destined to marry and start a nuclear family" dogshit sitting in a tree and spiderverse insist on by... doing what i keep repeating:

1) let gwen come out. either say "i'm bi / into women" or show her kissing a girl. 2) have miles acknowledge gwen's queerness and support it. 3) give gwen female love interests that last in multiple mediums and adaptations to solidify her sexuality so everyone knows (especially those kids who were introduced to her through the spiderverse movies and have no idea that she's a closeted queer girl or that their romance storyline's about gwen being pressured into pretending to be straight and miles letting it happen so he can have her to himself) and marvel can't pull a kitty pryde and pretend like it never happened. 4) build up both gwen and miles' romances with other characters, so people who want to ship them have better canon options. (for gwen, these can be female or male after she's had at least one major girlfriend)

and since a significant section of the trilogy's young fandom acknowledge spiderverse gwen's trans-coding-- or even want gwen to be bi or a lesbian, despite the heavy gwiles preference of the films and lack of any positive dynamic between gwen and any female characters-- there's a good chance that once the spiderverse kids see that gwen's canonically bi, they'll run with it. we just have to get them there.

the best case scenario that can be realistically hoped for is a petergwen scenario (or a peter-and-any-girl-who-isn't-mj scenario): accepting as a given that a staple of spider-gwen's character in any future adaptations will be a probable romance with miles morales, but instead of it being a given, it's merely an option that doesn't necessarily need to exist. and if it does exist, instead of it being an endgame romance, reframe it into a temporary flirtation before they move on to other people.

to make a comparison: we need the collective mindset about gwiles to shift from kataang to makorra-- from "childhood sweethearts who never break up" to "hormonal teens who have a rocky first romance that quickly implodes, but they come out of it as friends and he supports her when she goes on to date a girl". or from 1990s joker-and-harley to 2020s joker-and-harley-- from "the female character only appears in proximity to her boyfriend and is totally defined by her romance with him" to "everyone sees the female character as an individual, knows she's queer, and understands that if she and this guy have a romance, it'll only be temporary, and sometimes he doesn't factor into her story at all."

so, a compromise. give the gwileses what they want, and then give queer gwen what she needs. the makorrafication of gwiles means everyone wins.

we can work with that. gwen and miles's respective stories are at their best when they're about embracing their marginalized identities after rejecting assimilating into the dominant culture they're being marginalized from (straightness and whiteness respectively). they need to start the story by trying to do that so their arcs are more pronounced, and their romantic arcs should reflect their overall arcs. it does actually make the most sense if miles's first major love interest is a white girl he feels pressured to tone down his blackness for, and gwen's is a straight boy she's comphetting with, because the point is they have to grow out of that.

like, as a certified decade-long Gwiles Hater, there is actually a case for gwiles as a romantic plotline, and it's that. the issue with gwiles is the way the ship's been framed. once we change the framing, and that framing is widespread and accepted, we're good. and it is going to take a long time to do. (remember, it took twenty-five years to break up harley and the joker for good. optimistically, it's gonna take that long to get gwen out of gwiles.)

gwen and miles don't necessarily need to be each other's first relationship (that role can be filled by plenty of other white girls and straight boys, and they're best as friends in entirely separate worlds), but it can work as long as it's within that context: fine, they can get together. but they must break up.

that's the way out.

but again, we just don't know what we're dealing with yet. the rollercoaster car might have derailed already and it just hasn't flown away yet. or maybe we'll make it after a couple dicey turns and a fucking agonizing loop or two. man i hate not knowing.

[claireclaymore]

Everlark on movies

or why I just can't hate the movies - Part 1

This post will be polemic, and I am sure everyone will disagree, but I came here to defend romance aspect on the movies.

But first, some important points:

-I do agree the books were totally better while the movies failed in insert romance organically in the storytelling.

-And yes, everlark community is right in be pissed of with the director. He really didn't get the purpose of Peeta and Katniss relationship and that's shows.

-The producers forced the Team Gale and Team Peeta thing to increase the engagement. More Gale and Katniss were their crimes.

That said, what I strongly disagree are following accusations:

-"The movies are Everthorne propaganda and made that ship more popular than the canon one."

-"Peeta and Katniss didn't have chemistry on the movies."

-"On the movies, Katniss was actually in love with Gale, Peeta was rebound."

So this post will cover this fist accusation.

The changes for the love triangule

First movie did insert hits about Gale have a crush on Katniss (the book made this too, but it was implied). In movies Gale is a decent friend (he was there with Prim wait for her, alike on canon), so he is shippable and this create a interesting conflict on the audience, cause her looks like a good match, right?

But then there is Peeta. This guy that happened to be genuinely kind, and was willing to let Katniss win. And in script was implied he did knows it was an act whole time. So in the end of story feels like the audience is strongly divided between two good men, adding the political mess, we do have an exciting cliffhanger.

Then second movies happens and all doubts go away! Again edition cut iconic lines from Peeta, but Josh killed it in all his scenes. Peeta's essential kindness was well portrayed, in my opinion, and made audience really care for him.

It was criminal that they didn't delve deeper into the everlark bed scenes and add new everthorne scenes (that no one asked for), but rewatching it I didn't see much emotions on those kisses (and thanks Liam for having the expressiveness of a door).

In the other hand, the everlark scenes during the games were EVERYTHING! All the drama that was missing in the first film came in full force in the second! The force field scene is so much more theatrical!

And they made the beach kiss sweeter (and personally I love how heartwarming the scene was). I do remember applauding in theater (so... no chemistry my ass)

In short, my reading of the film is that Peeta is not just a cute and passionate friend who Katniss is afraid of hurting by rejecting him. She's falling in love with him. The desperation, the devotion, all of this is perfectly translated in Jennefer's performance. I seriously don't get how someone can see their interactions on arena and think he is the third wheel (and thank you director for don't include Gale's sad face to ruin the moment here).

Feral and in love (overdramatic? overreacted? Yes, but it follows the intensity of Katniss in canon). Will historians say that she is acting like this because of a friend?

Then the two last movies. They finally allowed show Gale being a asshole (I liked that change with calling Peeta a coward, they cut Gale's bullshit in Catching Fire, they had to put in some place). We still have to endure some Gale and Katniss scenes, but again, their ton are pale (basic soundtrack, no creative angles).

But what continues selling the ship is the adversity, the longing. Wherever Peeta appears Katniss just sees him! Gale stay on background or the camera forget him, he is just a desperate man looking at an amazing couple.

You are excellent door Liam!

And all angst, the forbidden love thing make people root even more for Everlark! So no! The movies didnt' sell Everthone or this attempt backfired (or if you disagree, at least see Jennefer isn't on board).

In conclusion, yes the movies made little for the ship, but this little was enough to introduce people to this amazing franchise. The details, the performing, soundtrack, edition all came together to the tip of the iceberg of everlark.

[magmythedevil]

Do you have worries about either Envy or Nuzi being rushed and forced in the end to the audience to please certain fans? Would you be saddened if N and Uzi didn't get together in the end, despite all the development and growth the two have gotten over the season so far, especially with their friendship? I've honestly noticed lately that some Envy fans have said Nuzi is being shoved in our faces, but the same could be said for EP 5 "Envy" when they showed the past versions of N and V, and even EP 2 as well..it seems like kinda hypocritical, to me. Heck someone even went out and made an Nuzi hate account over on Twitter and it's laughable and dumb. But anyways, I wanted to ask are you worried about either ship being rushed and not given the amount of development?? I honestly feel bad that I can't like Envy as other fans do..I honestly DO wanna like it and I do kinda ship it, but I only ship and like their past versions, but it's just hard for me to really like N and V as a couple (especially present) In general when the show hasn't really given it the amount of development it deserves and the show also hasn't given me a reason to really root and make them seem believable, at least to me..maybe I'm missing something, idk. 🤷‍♀️🤔 It's sometimes scary and hard to be a Nuzi fan at times though when Envy fans and especially other fans in this fandom (at least when it comes to Tik Tok and Twitter, and even Reddit and Amino too) keep on calling Nuzi problematic and uncomfortable because of so much misinformation being spread and people thinking it's p*oship, EVEN THOUGH IT'S NOT!! PLEASE STOP SAYING THIS, BTW!

But some fans are theorizing and assuming that maybe Liam is just playing around with the audience and saying that N and V might end up being the endgame couple which I cannot say, none of us knows until Liam confirms and says anything! I honestly do think there needs to be proper closure with N and V no matter if they get together or not, especially with V's treatment of N. I honestly think that V's sacrifice will affect the characters, especially N..since he and V were close and had a bond with one another!

And one more thing I wanna add real quick is this, now I don't know if this is 100% true or not and I'm just going by from what I've heard, but apparently I've heard that during a live event screening that happened back for EP 2 of the show, Liam Vickers was talking and discussing about how much he loved and enjoyed N and Uzi's dynamic (they are also his favorite characters) and he doesn't like one over the other and was also apparently asked on what his favorite ship was which he didn't say and said we'd eventually find out...I wouldn't be surprised if he's referring to both N and Uzi, since not only do they have the most developed and strongest bond and friendship out of any of the other characters, but the show has hinted at them being a item so many times, it seems sooo obvious. (I know this trope is cliche of main characters being a thing and I'm not the biggest fan of this myself at times, but N and Uzi are an exception for me! ^-^) now I MIGHT be wrong and things may change and go differently we'll just have to wait and see afterall, but even if N and Uzi don't get together..I'll still ship them because they just have more chemistry to me. 💛💜✨ But in the end, shipping isn't everything to me and I'm just here for the story, world-building + angst and the characters as well, but I'm curious to see what Liam ends up doing with the relationships and dynamics, especially since with this show..since anything can happen, especially with how crazy and insane it can be, especially with all it's twists and turns, haha!

Yep, nuzi may be semi-canon right now but everything is possible. We cant be sure what will happen to them exactly. But if nuzi really ins't end-game i hope liam gives a satisfied conclusion to them and their relantioship at least, no matter If Its happy, Sad or bitter-sweet.

Now about envy, i agre with you, i cant really ship their present selfs because of their development and their fans (they are so weird about nuzi and uzi herself ughhh) .

And if envy is going to be the end game in the full series Liam has to like- FOCUS a lot on them since they have a some things to pack up before coming back to each other. But, he has to put Uzi a litte aside for that....and i think thats something quite controversial to do since shes such a beloved protagonist and her relantioship with N is extremely special for the show (and fans)

But now that V has got some development and doesn't really hate uzi that much, envy may still have a chance of end-game.

But If they arent going to be end-game, Liam surely will give a nice conclusion for their relantioship, most probally a bitter-sweet one. (I also still have some Hope for vizzy-)

Also V's death is OBVIOUSLY going to be a part of N's breakdown Togheter with Uzi Almost losing her control and having to save the whole universe thing, Thats the entire point. No matter If he has focused on Uzi more, and getting feelings for her. V still was someone special for him (even If she treated him poorly) not even in a romantic way, if a friend of my died i would go crazy too.

And i agree with you with the whole rest 👍 lets see what will happen

[kaseytoretto118]

Csi

(I am up to s9)

Ok so I'm watching Csi for the first time and (loving it, it is so going to be a regular re-watch/binge) I have thoughts.

1st thing is that I love Lady Heather/ Grissom and I wanted them to end up together, not Grissom and Sara. Don't get me wrong I like Sara (kinda) but I feel like her and Grissom's romantic relationship came out of left field, like one episode they were just friends and then the next Sara is going on about it not affecting the promotion and it kinda shocked me (maybe I was just not paying attention to the sub-text but I don't think I wasn't) and then when they are together it was not healthy. I think Lady Heather/ Grissom was a far better relationship as they had much better as they have chemistry(in my opinion but I think i'm right), no power em-balance. In fact that is one of the main points of their relationship is that they match each other on a power level (intellectually & in many other ways) and also they have better communication and just are a better looking couple (no offence to Jorja Fox, she is a beautiful woman but Lady Heather actress is just more my type). Maybe I will get more context or something later on in the show on how Sara/Grissom as a couple but for now (at least) I still ship lady Heather/Grissom.

On another note,

Archie is my favorite lab rat, love him.

Do we even meet Dave's (super Dave/ M.E assistant) wife?

Also I would so read Greg's book.

Is it just me or is it that Lindsey's ages so quick, like I feel like she went from like 7 to 14 in a couple of episodes/ a season. Is it just me that just me or is it a timeline thing?.

Why in Hades name did Warrick get married?, to a woman the audience only hear about less than a hand full of times. Also eloped, come on🙄. There is no way. he would have gotten married without his family (the csi team, cause they are differently a family).Nick, should have been his best man & the team should have not heard about it after the fact(I am ticked off with the writers about that).

Also I really thought that the Warrick/ Catherine plot-line was going somewhere. I wanted it to, I was rooting for them and loved the idea of them as a couple, I mean Grissom and Sara did it, so why not let them and unlike Sara/Grissom there was no power em-balance. As well there where many things that would have made Catherine/ Warrick a good couple (my opinon), like that they were friends first, they had go chemistry, they both understand the job, the things they saw and the hours and also Warrick knew Linsey and lastly and most importantly is that they knew each others pasts, historys and baggage. I think they would have been a great couple,

One of the many things that ticked me off about Warrick's death (I wish they did not kill him at but I don't know why Warrick's actor left), is that they gave him a son and did nothing with that storyline (maybe they did, who knows and maybe they do something in the later seasons but I doubt it) and now that kid has to grow up without a dad (yes I no it is a show but still in universe he has to) the thing Warrick did not want for him and Tina is the mother, right?.

I have fallen in love the Greg/Nick ship.

And I found a Bobby Dawson/Henry Andrews fic and now can't get over them as a couple.

Nick's hair, I swear it changes more than Sam Winchesters LOL.

Also Freaking Ecklie as under sheriff.

Where did Sofia go?

And I cannot get over the fact that Laurence Fishburne is in Csi, I keep yelling at his character about thing Jack Crawford did or expecting him to act like Jack LOL.

I have this idea/head-canon that Lucy Chen from the rookie and Nick Stokes being in a buried alive support group together and becoming friends.

And does anyone else kinda of play along with Csi to see if they can guess the answer/ killer/ motive/ what happened ?

And finally is Csi: Las Vegas, the sequel worth the watch after I finish Csi. As I Kind want to watch it (and am most likely going to watch it) but I just, wanted to get an opinion if it is any good.

[formerlympp]

Hey, it's your friendly neighborhood GG watcher here again! Slowly but surely I went through the first season and I'm enjoying myself so much! It's been a while since I enjoyed such a cozy show full of normal, real, human, relatable characters who are all the more likable for being so flawed. I love how real everyone is and how there aren't really evil villains here, except for the rare cameo rich men lol. And even as a shipper rooting for my ship, I still genuinely like other relationships and partners so far despite their problems, I like Max, Chris, I loved Rachel and this feels really nice. Also I don't know if it's an unpopular opinion among the audience, but my favorite relationship might be Lorelai and Emily - there is just so much broken, so much lost, so many differences but still so much love and longing there 😥 (oh and there's no way I can't notice how Luke's devotion and clearly long term pining for Lorelai is so James coded!!!)

Sorry for the long message, I fear I may do that again in the future 😅

Never apologize for sending messages like this I am loving it!! It's always enjoyable to hear feedback as someone's watching something for the first time.

I feel very similarly about the love interests, especially in the first season! Max is just meant to be this really cool loveable guy but just not the right guy, you know? I personally love writing those kinds of relationships: the people aren't bad together but there's just something missing and that's nobody's fault, just how life goes! I'm also not too involved in any fandom discourse but I would be shocked if people weren't compelled by the Lorelai/Emily relationship. There is so much going on there. There's one episode coming up for you where they flashback to young Lorelai during pregnancy and it's by far one of my favorite episodes in the show!

I'm nearly done with the 3rd season in my rewatch (viewing has slowed down sooo much due to RL obligations/USA being a dumpster fire). Hope you are continuing to enjoy the show!

[andreal831]

What do you think of Nora and Mary Louise as a couple?

I want to like them so badly because TVDU gives us almost no sapphic representation. The ones we do have are deeply problematic. I have to rewrite so much of Freelin's relationship in my head to enjoy them.

But, if there's one thing I'm going to do, it's rewrite TVDU.

Mary Louise and Nora are both pretty bad people and they have a fairly toxic relationship. But who doesn't in TVDU? I do struggle to love either of their characters because they seem to enjoy harming and torturing people with little remorse or reason. It's just not my preference for characters.

Hot take, but I didn't hate Mary Louise the way I feel a lot of the fandom does. I thought it was interesting that they allowed her to still have trauma from being queer in the 1800/1900s. The show often pulls characters from other decades and they just immediately fit in. Like Finn in TO when he's brought back from the dead can magically impersonate a professor and navigate the 21st century after having missed 900 years of advancements. It would make sense for a character who has faced hate and persecution their whole lives to be hesitant to be loud and proud of being queer. Although, I wish they wouldn't just have used it as a conflict in their relationship.

I tend to hear a lot of misogynistic language around both of them as well. I don't particularly love them, but even people who like male characters like them (Damon, Klaus, Kai) hate them. Women in this fandom can't win. Elena is called a "crybaby" for showing emotions and Mary Louise is called a "stone cold bitch" for not showing her emotions.

We also just don't get a lot of their relationship. They are only in half a season and spend most of it being at odds with each other. They are both insecure in their own ways and are struggling to adapt to the new world they find themselves in. One issue I really had was Nora trying to force Mary Louise to fit in to the 21st century. Her forcing Mary Louise to dress in more sexual clothes will never sit right with me. Especially because it felt very centered on the male gaze.

I do like that we see them try to grow and evolve for each other. They do seem to be very different people but that is not always a bad thing. I think if we could have seen more of their history together it would have made the audience root for them more. They entered the show having issues and never really seemed to get on the same page as each other except when one of them is in danger and then they are very protective. Without seeing their history, it seemed as if the show was just forcing them to stay together despite everything pushing them apart. They had a lot of cute moments, but it felt like we were just catching a glimpse of this complex love story. Given more time, they could have found their footing and been a ship I really rooted for. Again, there's just so much work the fandom was forced to do because the writers couldn't be bothered.

And of course they fall into the "bury your gays" trope. Their death to me doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Are you telling me they couldn't perform the spell to destroy the sword without blowing themselves up in the process? If they knew a spell to destroy it, it seems like there should be other options.

I would honestly need to rewatch season 7 to see if I would change my mind because it has been a while.

Thanks for the ask!

[kitkatopinions]

I just stumbled across your blog and I love the Ironwood content here though I have a question. You mentioned in some posts that Ironwood shooting Oscar was what rocketed his villiany arc, can you elaborate on that? Don't get me wrong, I firmly believe shooting Oscar is bad/villianous thing but I always assumed Ironwoods mindset was "If I kill this child we might get Oz, the person who has most experience fighting Salem, back" and with him being sorrowful at shooting Oscar it never seemed too much of a leap for me instead it could have been the start of a great"Sacrifice people to save as many as I can/have the best chance at stopping Salem" arc that made him an anyogonist and not a villian who threatened to bomb a city and shot down evacuation ship

I would love to explain.

In my opinion, the difference between an antagonist versus a villain is that an antagonist gets in the way, but villains commit actually evil acts. So when Ironwood went from getting in the way via arresting Team RWBY when they said that they would stop him from saving the people of Atlas and the already evacuated citizens of Mantle, and instead went to shooting children from incredibly high heights, I'd say that moved him into the villain category despite his motivations likely still centering around beating Salem back. Villains can do bad things with good intentions, and it's still a villainous act.

I do agree that he could have come back from it, in fact even though I have a preference that some villains should stay villains I tend to think that there's very little a character can't 'come back' from if the redemption arc is done well (and they're actually treated as wrong and try to make amends somehow.) But I do think that it made Ironwood a villain when he shot Oscar.

One big reason why I think that it rocketed his (rushed, badly done) villain arc though, is because before that moment, Ironwood was not a 'murder in cold blood' character, especially if the person he was murdering was a literal child just disagreeing with him. He didn't send Clover, Qrow, and Robyn to kill Tyrian, just to apprehend him. He didn't kill Watts, he only apprehended him. He didn't kill Jacques when Jaques was in the way. He didn't kill Team RWBY for disagreeing with his solution to the trolley problem they'd found themselves in. He didn't kill Robyn when she was stealing supplies. Ironwood has in the past hesitated to even fight his allies when he thought they were gunning for his head (turning his gun around when facing Qrow.) The motivation of 'kill the kid, get Oz back' is... Believable, but I don't think it makes the act itself fit in with the rest of Ironwood's character. And this quickly escalated into shooting the councilman who disagreed with him (when he'd only jailed Watts,) talking about torturing people, bombing people, etc. I think that from a writer standpoint, the rw//by writers used that moment to 'clue the audience in' that despite the fact that they intended for the 'fight and risk everything or take who we can and run' question to be one with no clear right or wrong... They wanted us to still see Team RWBY as the good guys and anyone who opposed them as evil. It's a little like Cordovin, they didn't actually have Team RWBY written to be right - the steal a plane plot was wholly unnecessary and their need to get over the border immediately was never grounded in anything - so they had to make the obstacle in their way an annoying irrational screaming person violently attacking them despite their uwu sad eyed pleas to just let them break the law without a fight and then also made said annoying person make jabs at Blake being a faunus. Now nobody in their right mind would want to root for her, so nobody has to think that deeply about whether or not Team RWBY's actions and stances actually make sense.

"In a trolley problem, do you save the many or the few? Johnny says save the many and David says 'have we tried hitting the trolley with baseball bats in the hopes it won't hurt anyone?' Well, Johnny is a secretly evil piece of shit who's trying to torture people and murder children, so batter up, let's go with David's plan - Oh, David and his friends put up a billboard that says 'a trolley is running amuck' and now they're drinking tea on the trolley tracks and you say that's a bad move? Well David isn't murdering children so tbh I gotta go with his plan still." That's the vibe I get from Ironwood's villainy arc.

That's my thoughts on it anyway.

[boopiddyboop]

Great article, had the same thoughts!

And yes totally agree of them wanting to appeal to their audience but unless people are delusional(specially inaginary ships distort lot of ppl views) and not know that much about the community, I think we can tell when they are not doing it to appeal,(or not only, and at least not only in that sense) specially those 3 mentioned that are so honest and genuine, and definitely all the appealing thing wouldn't apply to their answers regarding ideal types, at least not to the queer community bc the lack of specificy it's appealing mostly the hets, the same for some when they would do but to hide being queer :') But at the same time dropping hints here and there that mostly only us would recognize that a lot of cishet or +phobic fans would not see easily (or negate even if there were obvious) xD

About the feminine and masculine thing, tbh I wish more ppl wouldn't use it (not only in astrology or tarot) and use other words instead (like you said overt for example or action oriented, etc).

But I get it too since it's so rooted in society that is kind of inevitable and lot of ppl do like it, me included sometimes but anyways x]

For me I prefer seeing Scorpio ruled or co-ruled by Pluto and either way wouldn't say it would be overt bc I also can't ignore it's a water sign and that's why it's said to be feminine leaning but ig it depends of the association we give, I get associating it with Hades would be more masculine than Apollo, and cap bc of saturn would be typically seen as more masculine. That's so interesting and makes me think how flexible and adaptable astrology can be and how much better in terms of archetypes and language used we could make it! :D

About Hj chart, can't agree in everything bc although probably we can find similar answers in one way or another even with different types of charts, I still prefer placidus and think his placidus chart makes way more sense!

Thank you I like taking about these topics!🥰

Oh certainly when it comes to the "they're all just playing us for their job" narrative, if that were truly the case, I think they would've been sussed out by now. There's a reason we like and bond with certain idols- perceived truthfulness is one of them. As for what is actually bread crumbs and what isn't... personally I lean towards assuming less because it's the safer route, but in the cases of idols with western backgrounds (i.e. Felix), it's a lot easier to feel confident about your interpretation of behaviors based on similar cultural behaviors.

I like to think of the terms "feminine" and "masculine", especially in the context of tarot/astrology/witchcraft as a sort of shorthand to those traits your describe, rather than by their more aesthetic interpretations. But I also came to terms long ago with that difference in my own life, before my interest in any of these topics- that I was definitively cisgendered and enjoyed being as such while recognizing that my presentation was neither traditionally female nor intentionally androgynous. As such, the language currently used doesn't bother me, but I recognize that comfort comes from being well-established in my identity.

Semi-related, another fun article talking about the pipeline from "cruncy" left to alt-right beliefs. In some ways, the still-gendered language does play into that. When we use terms like "divine masculine and feminine" we also open doors for those terms to be weaponized against us. Another example of this is when abusers use therapist rhetoric to justify their actions. I wouldn't say the current usage of "masculine/feminine" is equally as insidious, but I'm a huge proponent of the power of language. (If you can't tell by the now literally thousands of words of dialogue I have written in response to you- I try and get my words just right to not only convey a point, but an intention as well)

As for the differences between modern and traditional, I'm a Sailor Moon girlie at heart, so I'm actually kind of sad about the exclusion of Uranus-Pluto for rulership. That being said, ancient Greeks had wildly different views on sexuality and social dynamics than us. For example, Aquarius, the water-bearer, is derived from Ganymede. Y'know, that boy Zeus thought was so hot he took him to Olympus and made him his wine-bearer and then some of the Greeks did something similar. So yeah, some differences. As a more tangible example of how culture can cause confusion, my own personal chart, by both traditional and modern, it talks about me marrying an older man, but for different placements in my chart(s). And then I wonder, what is an older man? So I trace it back past the Greeks to the Arabic- the word originally used was sheikh. So is that a certain age? Status? And then would I be considered "old" at this age (yes) , so does that mean someone my age now? And you can just run yourself silly with these questions!

Eventually, I reached the point of going by traditional because I found it both easier for me to digest and ultimately felt it was more accurate, but .... if there was one indisputably correct way of doing this, I truly think we would be incapable of determining that in the first place. So I do my little readings with my little charts, knowing that my reading is subjective and flawed because I am subjective and flawed and that's okay :) So I hope I don't ever come across as condescending on these topics- if you find placidus makes more sense, then use that! We can compare notes haha

[mnemonicpneumaticknife]

For the Vidiians it feels like they wanted a monster and then tacked on some complexity as an afterthought. We're often told of how they were in the past or how they live when not antagonizing Voyager but we're seldom shown it.

I think if you keep having to point out to the audience that your antagonists are the extremists of the culture you're portraying you've failed at portraying that culture you made up.

They can't even get the "don't judge them by their looks part" right in Lifesigns because they give Danara Pel a pretty face, and then she has to be convinced it's even worth living life to go back to her physical body.

There was some potential to make the Vidiians a foil to the Voyager crew as they're both supposed to be driven by circumstance to make extreme choices but, again, Voyager's difficulties at being without support from Starfleet are very much the tell but don't show kind with only a few exceptions. (oh no, we have to eat leola root!)

Even when they get a favour from Danara in Resolutions, the Vidiians still attack Voyager. If they're really that desperate, then how do they still have the resources for such powerful ships after centuries of devastation by plague and no one wanting them around? Who is going to trade with them if they'll take any opportunity to attack?

Making them unreasonable space zombies would have been an improvement- and that's pretty much exactly what Voyager did when they brought in the Borg.

I’ve been particularly interested in analyzing how disability is depicted in Star Trek Voyager recently, so I wanted to make a list of episodes that involve significant representations or themes of disability and neurodivergence:

Phage, Faces, and all the other Vidiian episodes: I’m grouping these together because my opinion on them is similarly negative, both in general and from a disability perspective. Making your alien race scary because they’re visibly scarred and disabled and making that be the root of why they’re immoral is, uh… bad.

Meld: Lon Suder is pretty clearly neurodivergent, though given the fact that he’s a murderer, I don’t think this is necessarily a positive thing. Arguably, what happens to Tuvok in the episode is also disability-adjacent. I have mixed feelings on this episode and its portrayal of violence as innate, especially as that connects to depictions of neurodivergence.

Year of Hell: Not particularly disability-themed, but Tuvok is blind in the episode, and I like the way they portrayed that on the whole even if it’s reversed by the end of the episode. I’ve said this before, but I really like the accommodations Tuvok is shown using like the tactile interface for the computer console, and I really wish Geordi in TNG had been shown to require similar accommodations.

Extreme Risk: This episode intentionally portrays B’Elanna as having depression, and overall I think it’s a well-written episode that does a good job of prioritizing B’Elanna’s own perspective rather than other characters’ perspectives. I do wish B’Elanna’s depression was something that Voyager focused on outside of this episode, but I can hardly blame the one episode that actually focuses on it for its lack of focus elsewhere. I really like this episode personally.

Latent Image: There are a couple EMH episodes I considered including, but this one feels the most disability adjacent in terms of the Doctor’s “malfunction” in the episode (arguably analogous to disability/neurodivergence) and in terms of the discussion of personal autonomy in relation to that. I think this episode brings up some interesting issues and my opinion of it is positive overall.

Riddles: In which Tuvok has a brain injury that affects him both physically and mentally. I really enjoy this episode personally, but my feelings on it in relation to disability are more complicated. Obviously, Tuvok gets suddenly cured at the end of the episode which negates a lot of potentially interesting things an episode like this could do, but at the same time I’m not going to argue a show like Voyager could have done things any differently. The discussions of dependence and recovery in relation to disability here are interesting. In general, I like how Tuvok has a fair amount of agency in the story and that he primarily isn’t infantilized. I do wish the episode focused a bit more on Tuvok’s perspective over Neelix’s.

Pathfinder: Barclay is pretty clearly neurodivergent, and I like the concept of his character in theory. In practice, I wish that many episodes he’s in didn’t use his social anxiety to excuse him being an asshole, especially when the same courtesy isn’t extended to female characters and characters of color (for example, B’Elanna Torres). This episode wasn’t as bad (or sexist) as some of the TNG episodes he’s in, but still.

Good Sheppherd: Arguably all three main characters in the episode are coded as neurodivergent. The “every person adds value to the team regardless of how weird they are” message of this episode fell a bit flat for me, and the root issues related to disability/neurodivergence aren’t explored to an extent I found satisfying. I’m not going to call it a bad episode, though – it’s okay.

Fury: This one I am going to call a bad episode. Definitely one of my least favorite episodes of Voyager, but technically older Kes is depicted as disabled. I hate everything about this episode, especially the way it depicts disability as affecting Kes.

Repentance: I also dislike this episode. It has similar (but worse) problems to Meld in terms of treating tendency toward violence as innate and denying that neurodivergent people are capable of having any autonomy/control over their actions.

Many Seven/Borg episodes, particularly The Gift, One, Infinite Regress, The Voyager Conspiracy, and Imperfection: I’ve talked extensively about my disability-related thoughts on Seven and the Borg so I’m not going to list these episodes separately.

If anyone else has any thoughts on any of these episodes or suggestions of other episodes that belong on this list that I didn’t include, I’d love to hear about it!

[bitacrytic]

I have a question. And I am not trying to start any shit trust me. It's just I was exploring the kp tag and I caught another blogger answering an ask. In their opinion, Vegas is those creepy people who constantly come onto you even when you say no and then ultimately commit on you the violence of sexual assault. They brought up how after a failed attempt at raping Porsche he was standing admiring himself in the mirror. And while initially I went how dare you...I eventually could not disagree.

I know the source novel and it is honestly bad. What happened to Pete there- let's just say I am relieved they took another route no matter how dubious the present version is in itself. My point of the ask is- from the safe house episodes they tried to play it up as the man being a sad little boy who did whatever he had to do to come out on top. And maybe ( just maybe with dangling on a very thin line) I can excuse that what he did with Tawan as a part of him wanting to get an inside Intel but his attempt at raping porsche...that- that is not justifiable right? I mean flirting with him/trying to impress him...okay- massive douchebag but the drugging and making him drunk...those stuff.

And the thing is I was in the Vegaspete afterglow right? Giggling at the hospital scene. But now after i have seen the post...i can't help but ask myself...didn't they take the Vegas of earlier episodes and turn him into someone else from that safehouse episode? ( where vp have a heart to heart)? I have the link to the post I am referring to. But I don't want anyone to harass the person...so I am just sending the ask.

Oh, you're right not to link someone that people might attack. Real people matter more than opinions about a fictional ship. So, good on you for not linking it.

I agree with you. Vegas is a psychopath. He is a rapist. He is a murderer. Vegas did bad things to EVERYONE he's ever come in contact with, besides his father and his brother. I am of the opinion that if Tawan hadn't kidnapped Chay and ruined things, Vegas would have taken Porsche to his dungeon and tortured and raped him. It's that simple.

But here are a few things to think of:

1. People can still ship psychopaths and enjoy a ship that features rape. It is fucking FICTION. If you don't ship it, cool. But don't try and make other people feel bad about it. We have literally seen these men commit murder and we still stan them. There's no good behaviour here. Kinnporsche is messy. Everyone is messy. So don't let anyone make you feel like shit for shipping a messed up ship from a messed up show. Because everyone is fucked on this show.

2. It's funny that we, as the audience, think we have a moral standpoint from which to judge these characters. Because we don't. If we were in these situations (I hope not) we might exhibit our worst selves. The things Vegas did to Pete are fucked up. But guess what? If Pete wasn't the prisoner, he'd have stood on the sidelines and let it happen. Wait, he did stand on the sidelines and let Vegas torture at least two different people. That's the kind of show we're watching. Fucked up people doing fucked up shit to each other. And the fact that we think we can find morality or a reason to excuse anything any of them do is funny. Because we can't.

3. The same thing they did to Vegas is what they did to Kinn. These men are bad people, but we're supposed to root for them. So of course there wil be a moment where there's a switch from "I'm the big bad," to "I want this man I have harmed to love me."

They made Vegas miss and crave Pete to show growth in his arc, the same way they made Kinn seem like a good man after the things he did to Porsche. "Oh, I sexually assaulted you? But I have feelings for you. Oh, I punished you even though I know what actually happened wasn'tyour fault? But my father made me do it. Love me because I hate the bad things that I have done." And it fucking worked. Even people like me who complain about Kinn, still love the kinnporsche ship. Because it has its moments. But it's toxic. So, saying that they tried to play Vegas up as sad cat meow meow after the incident should also be said about kinn. Kinn is also a rapist. He also trapped Porsche in that mansion, excluding him from friends and family to the point that Porsche had to lie to leave the mansion.

My point is,

No one in this fandom has a leg to stand on when it comes to complaining about problematic ships. We can hate the ship all we want, but we can't erase or escape the problematic parts of our own ships.

Unless the person in question doesn't like any ship on the show.

[elias-rights]

I mean, RQ introduced me to much better podcasts than their own Magnus Archives, so I have to thank them for that. Jon Ware's 'I Am In Eskew' and 'The Silt Verses' are both excellent. (on the note of audience pandering - I will allow it from Jon Ware because the idea of the audience loving a villain-coded character so much that he doesn't become a villain is very sweet).

Though, I found Neighbourly by Matthew OK Smith and Hello From the Hallowoods (eldritch horror plz adopt me) through Spotify. And I found Malevolent through a tumblr post claiming that John-Arthur is better than Jm*rt (and it really fucking is because it's the centre of the piece rather than last minute slap dash audience pandering).

But yeah, from the sounds of it, tma kind of sucks. I've still only listened up to 160, but the thought of jm*rt being canon just gets worse the more I listen to. I went into this rooting for jm*rt because Ih ward about it first but they've done practically *nothing* to build it up. You can't tell me a relationship matters when you haven't shown me how it matters.

Goddamn. And I fucking swear. They better not make a sequel. The ending sucks but the story is done. Over. No need for a sequel. I might consider some kind of parallel universe story but not some crap set in Somewhere Else. NO.

-Ace je anon

I've heard good things about I Am in Eskew and The Silt Verses from my former Magnus mutuals! Malevolent is also on my list. Neighbourly, I actually can't recall how I discovered. I still need to catch up with the latest season, but I love the narration style and how everything begins to interconnect. And I have half a crush on the Narrator.

I have very few complaints about the first four seasons of Magnus, to be honest. MAG 160 would have worked as a series finale in its own right, in my opinion. I've dedicated so much time to trying to figure out what went wrong and when, and I think that it's a combination of pandering, fandom pressure, pandemic complications, and Jonny just not having the balls to write a tragedy (if people's comments on 13 Storeys are anything to go by). I don't want to go on and on about JM, but to keep it brief, it's... not good. I feel dread at the thought of having to see even more of it, even just on my dash (I've filtered the tag but because it's the mainstream people seem to think it's unnecessary to tag the ship).