#jm critical

[elias-rights]

What’s toxic about JonMartin in canon?

It's a really interesting question to get into because there are many factors at play. Under a cut for length.

First of all is the simple fact that they don't know each other. From MAG 159:

PETER

It’s odd, really. You each think you’re so focused on the other, but how much do you really know each other? How much time have you spent together when not working, or bickering, or fleeing from that latest thing that wants to kill you? So. What are you seeking? The image you’ve each created of the other? The people you think you love don’t exist. Not really. And that’s a very lonely place to be.

ARCHIVIST

(cutting off Peter’s echo) Shut up!

Yes, it's a manipulation attempt, but Jon notably doesn't offer a counterargument to his reasoning. Furthermore, it's true: they haven't had the opportunity to get to know each other, at least that we've heard. Not even Jonmartin enthusiasts seem to agree on the question of when exactly Jon started reciprocating Martin's feelings; most of my mutuals share my experience of being completely blindsided by MAG 159/160 and the confirmation of their feelings.

"I need him to be okay" is often cited as proof of Jon caring personally about Martin, but I always viewed it as him clinging to the concept of Martin as his last surviving original assistant; he obviously feels responsible for him and also views him as a symbol of simpler times.

Then there's the fact that they're incompatible. To put a simple example, they don't even get each other's jokes. A brief selection of instances where this happens:

They have the highest ratio of missed jokes I remember seeing between characters in this podcast. This sharply contrasts with, for instance, Gerry, who instantly clicks with Jon's style of communication.

Okay, but this is all about why they're incompatible, which doesn't necessarily imply toxicity. That factor comes in because, throughout season five, Martin is (to put it bluntly) an absolute dick to Jon.

In MAG 181, for example, he joins in on laughing at Jon with Salesa for being powerless, when Salesa at that point was an unknown variable that could've easily been an enemy:

ARCHIVIST

[Compellingly] Tell me what happened.

SALESA

No.

ARCHIVIST

I – uh… W-What?

[DEEP CHUCKLES FROM SALESA]

SALESA

The look on your face! Look, he’s so confused!

[MARTIN LAUGHS A BIT TOO]

ARCHIVIST

Martin!

MARTIN

Sorry. Sorry. Y-You did look kind of funny. It was l-l-l-like you were flunking an exam or something.

Notably, this is after they cross an unknown threshold into the place where an agent of the Web is living, which puts Jon (again, powerless for the first time in a while) in a position where he's at the mercy of the fear that destroyed his childhood. Either Martin is being very insensitive or Jon didn't tell him about Mr Spider, which wouldn't mean anything good re: how well they know and trust each other.

From the same episode:

SALESA

And you?

[SOUND OF A DISGRUNTLED ARCHIVIST]

MARTIN

He’ll behave.

You can make an argument that I'm reaching with everything else in this post, but "he'll behave" is an inarguably disgusting thing to say about your partner, especially when he's in such a vulnerable position.

And then, of course, is the matter of the killing spree.

It starts because Jon impulsively avenges his friend, which he wasn't going to do until the Not-Them basically baited him. (Of course he then felt more secure in his power and part of him enjoyed it. He's in this situation because he was systematically traumatised on purpose by Jonah and forced to read his statement.)

And then, when Jon admits to being ashamed of himself for having these powers, for enjoying them, Martin just bluntly tells him that they should "get their murder on" because "these things" (avatars, of which Jon! Is! One! Nice job implicitly dehumanising him!) are "just evil" (never mind that some of them might have circumstances similar to Jon's). (Also, never mind that revenge fixes nothing, but that's neither here nor there.)

The most egregious example is with Oliver Banks. I know "I'm not going to kill a man just because you're jealous" became a meme line, but it's really not the sign of a healthy relationship.

MARTIN

…Cool, so what’s the problem, then? Take another monster off the hit list; job done.

ARCHIVIST

…It’s not. That simple?

MARTIN

Well, what does that mean. (slight pause, insistent) What does that mean, John? What, what happened to Kill Bill? (barest of pauses) John? John, you said –

ARCHIVIST

I know what I said, and I don’t – (sigh) I don’t know, Martin. I just – I don’t think he’s – (sigh) I don’t know; I don’t think he’s evil.

[Something creaks.]

MARTIN

(really?) Oh, yeah, sure; he’s probably a really kind, benevolent ruler of a hellish fear prison.

I get that Martin is trying to project evil onto every avatar in order to distance himself from them because he's coping badly with having a domain of his own, but maybe don't do that in front of your boyfriend who's struggling with his own avatarhood and whether that makes him a monster. Martin's phrasing even parallels Jon's "all you lose is another monster" line from S4. Tying Jon's worth to some arbitrary definition of humanity that he giveth and taketh away on a whim.

Also, Jon is very notably a person who likes to think things through before expressing them. If Martin can't even be patient while he tries to explain something complex, they're clearly not compatible.

This is from before they kill Jude Perry:

MARTIN

…No. No, I’m not going to choose; I don’t, I don’t think that’s a fair decision to put on me. It’s your revenge; your choice, not mine.

This strikes me as hypocritical. Martin can push Jon to kill the avatars he doesn't like even when Jon clearly isn't comfortable with it, but then places the weight of the whole thing on Jon, as if the killing spree had been his idea. Why isn't it a "fair decision to put on him" when Martin has tried to choose every time until now?

And, I mean, Martin apologises for the pressure, for what it's worth. Except no, the topic comes back, and not in a good way.

ARCHIVIST

What happened to “Kill Bill”?

MARTIN

You weren’t meant to enjoy it this much!

This is about Jon suggesting using his power in a way that would actually make a bit of a difference. Of course it's a fallible suggestion, but Martin's response is just ridiculous. Martin clearly enjoyed the killing spree until it was Jon who put an end to it.

Martin casually dehumanises, dismisses, and belittles Jon on many occasions: treating those Jon's obviously projecting onto like monsters, being whiny and impatient about the statements he needs to survive, or interrupting his train of thought.

Finally (for this post--there were many scenes that I skipped), there's the matter of how the entire crew, Martin included, systematically dismisses Jon's input in the last few episodes. It's like his opinion doesn't even matter, when he's the one arguably best equipped to understand what's happening.

It's genuinely painful to listen to.

[teamfortresstwo]

Genuinely insane how Jon had more chemistry with literally every character BUT the one he ended up being with

[solarianvoidthearoace]

Chapters: 33/33 Fandom: The Magnus Archives (Podcast) Rating: Teen And Up Audiences Warnings: No Archive Warnings Apply Relationships: Gerard Keay/Jonathan "Jon" Sims | The Archivist, Martin Blackwood/Jonathan "Jon" Sims | The Archivist, Sasha James & Gerard Keay, Queerplatonic Gerard Keay/Jonathan "Jon" Sims | The Archivist, Queerplatonic Gerard Keay/Original Non-Binary Character Characters: Jonathan "Jon" Sims | The Archivist, Martin Blackwood, Gerard Keay, Sasha James, Gertrude Robinson, Original Non-Binary Character, Nikola Orsinov, Elias Bouchard (mentioned) (derogatory) 

Summary:

Meeting an old acquaintance again can be a bit of a culture shock. Instantly clicking again with your old ride or die… is a different sort of shock entirely. Jon Sims has an unlooked-for run-in with the old flame of his youth. Still unmistakably the full-blood goth Jon fell for all those years ago. Gerry Delano really hadn't expected to run into Jon Sims of all people, either. Jon who changed quite a bit, from the looks of it. But that's life. People change over the years, so it shouldn't come as much of a surprise that Jon settled as a librarian-slash-archivist, has a boyfriend, and leads a calmer life now. Gerry themself changed as well, after all. “Settling into domesticity… it’s not me, not what I want or need. Sure I want a steady life but I don’t want a calm or quiet life, at all. That's the thing. Life's different when he's around. And we both know I like different.”

Yes, this is an older work (from 2021) of mine but I’m still proud of it and I am currently in the process of editing and reworking the story to make it a full-fledged novel. (Meaning, severing all connections to the original fandom given it was a completely disconnected AU anyway.) I haven’t edited this version on AO3 since 2021 so there are quite a bunch of mistakes and errors but since I started writing JonGerry again, I kind of want to draw attention to this older work also. If you would rather read a canon-divergence, click the link in the previous sentence. That current WiP is a canon-divergence by the way of time travel and other shenanigans.

Additional Tags: Nonbinary Gerard Keay, Protective Gerard Keay, Asexual Jonathan "Jon" Sims | The Archivist, Trans Martin Blackwood, Biromantic Jonathan "Jon" Sims | The Archivist, Genderqueer Gerard Keay, Artist Gerard Keay, Barkeeper Gerard Keay, Alternate Universe - Everyone Lives/Nobody Dies, Aromantic Sasha James (mentioned), They/Them and He/Him Pronouns for Gerard Keay, He/Him Pronouns For Nonbinary Jonathan "Jon" Sims | The Archivist, Guitarist Jonathan "Jon" Sims | The Archivist, Getting Back Together, Alternate Universe - No Entities, Trans Sasha James (mentioned), Unhealthy Relationships, Gerard Keay Has ADHD, Jonathan "Jon" Sims | The Archivist Has ADHD, The Main Characters have ADHD because the writer isn't neurotypical and can't pretend they are, Main Characters are neurodiverse because the writer can't write someone neurotypical, Break Up Talk, Gerard Keay has Depression, Jonathan "Jon" Sims | The Archivist Has Depression, Psychiatric medication, Implied/Referenced Child Abuse, Emotional/Psychological Abuse, Workplace Accident, Physical Therapy, Swinger Martin Blackwood, Jealous Martin Blackwood, Minor Martin Blackwood/Tim Stoker, Jonathan "Jon" Sims | The Archivist Being a Little Shit, Making Out, Writer forgot to mention Gerry Keay’s piercings but he definitely has those!, Relationship/Boundary Negotiations, Developing Relationship, Disabled Character, Character(s) using mobility aids, Gender Non-Conforming Jonathan "Jon" Sims | The Archivist, Character(s) using Neo-Pronouns, Jonathan "Jon" Sims | The Archivist has Generalised Anxiety Disorder, No Smut, No Sex/Smut but the writer put their prowess for that into the several make-out scenes, Bossy Jonathan "Jon" Sims | The Archivist, Sex-Averse Jonathan "Jon" Sims | The Archivist, Sex-Neutral Jonathan "Jon" Sims | The Archivist, Sex-Averse Asexual, Sex-Neutral Asexual, Neurodiverse Character(s), Jonathan "Jon" Sims | The Archivist With a Cane, Pre-Relationship, Queerplatonic Relationships, Character(s) with changing pronouns, arophobia, enbyphobia, Emotional Manipulation, Queerplatonic Gerard Keay/Jonathan "Jon" Sims | The Archivist - Freeform, Aromantic Gerard Keay, Additional Warnings In Author's Note, Aromantic Allosexual Gerard Keay 

[solarianvoidthearoace]

This is actually how I wrote the relationship in Restatement of Home. It’s a complete AU with snippets and references to TMA canon but over all it’s a story about falling in love again with your past, finding your way back home (metaphorically), and navigating social conflicts not of your own making.

I’m still (2 years later) in the process of editing and re-writing it as a stand-alone original novel (detaching it entirely from the fandom)

But if you’d like to read a relationship between bi!ace! Jon and aro!queer! Gerry Keay, I’d recommend you my book

It is kind of a plot twist/ big reveal but the tags on AO3 give it away anyway so I might as well use it to promote.

My current work-in-progress is a canon divergence in which Jon and Gerry got set back in time after their respective …ceasing to exist (I feel like Death isn’t applicable considering the Catalogue)

With Words I thought I’d never speak has the two of them meeting again in 2012 (or as I like to call it apocalypse-minus-6) and they need to figure out how to save the world (in Jon’s case) and how to save both of their lives (in Gerry’s case).

I have a major soft spot for queerplatonic rships where at least one party is actually able to be attracted to the other. Queerplatonic ships where it's not "I would be in love with you if I was allo/gay/straight/bi/etc" but instead "I could be in love with you but I'm not because that's not the right relationship for either us and we're unbelievably happy with what we have."

Queerplatonic relationships are always treated as second string to romantic relationships, with an implication of "this relationship would be romantic if it could be", and that sucks. They're their own relationship, completely distinct from romance, and deserve to be treated as such.

[infinitegeli]

sorry if you've answered this before, but what do you think of taco's immidient switch into her viseral hatred of the game post losing mic? do you think its just her trying to get everyone to quit or does she genuinely detest the game for ruining what was her one honest happy relationship (with someone who knew the real her, not to deligate pickle and taco but to me their relationship is much different because of it)

THIS IS DEFINITELY SOMETHING ID HAVE TO REQATCH THE EP TO ANSWER CONFIDENTLY. but anwyays taco is very unreliable and what she says outwardly is almost always taken lightly by me because she contradicts herself a ton and lies a lot to avoid putting herself into vulnerable situations. I don’t think she cares about the other contestants very much and taco has always been a very self serving character. if ae really meant to write her as someone sincerely acting selflessly to preserve the wellbeing of people she hardly ever considers,I would be very very surprised...so the answer is the latter. she’s in her bitter revenge arc..she’s tearing up whatever she thinks ruined things between her and mic…which also happens to include herself as well but that’s not rly relevant rn

[ashesoriley]

The really annoying thing about Martin in season 5 is he seemed perfectly happy letting Jon be a monster but only when it benefited him. Every time else he was annoyed or angry. He was so hypocritical. It felt like he was using him almost

[cowboy--radio]

McElroy guest PC on Critical Role WHEN?!?????

[iwatcheditbegin]

The way gaylors went from hating that man, getting drinks to celebrate the break up, to running full on Stan accounts for him when she starts revealing it maybe wasn’t the healthiest relationship for her.

Yeah it’s really just about punishing Taylor for not being the character they created

[sparky-is-spiders]

I was possessed by the gods after showering this morning so I wrote this whole thing out in one sitting. My first foray into fics that aren’t entirely OC populated and into TMA fic, so I’m a bit nervous about it. Anyway, enjoy?

[casey-complains]

sir it has been 4 years since the last cartoon therapy, at this point, it just feels like peddling to get fans excited

and as someone who adores cartoon therapy and picani, please do not work on ct and focus on tss

[vertigoartgore]

Both JMS's Babylon 5 & The Critic stared airing 30 years ago today. Feel old yet ?

[elias-rights]

Is jonelias not FAR more toxic than jonmartin?

I'm critiquing a story, not giving romantic advice to my real-life friend who works in an archive and is being manipulated into ending the world. Toxic intimacy is a common feature of dark, gothic literary relationships that we're drawn to because of how romantic (as in idealised, remote, and dictated entirely by turbulent subjectivity) they are. With Jonmartin, there's no intimacy, toxic or otherwise. My problem with Jonmartin isn't just that it's toxic; it's that it's (1) toxic in a tediously mundane way and (2) rewarded by the narrative.

Kissing someone who conspired to unwillingly turn you into a god and stripped you of your autonomy just to hand you power is a scenario that is both thematically juicy and enticing in its lack of mundanity. Staying with your whiny, manipulative boyfriend who doesn't even see you for who you are is a Hallmark Christmas movie.

[teamfortresstwo]

Begging jm fans to understand the toxicity isn’t even the actual problem it’s how it’s handled by the narrative (not at all)

[jazz-miester]

I feel like doing my nails while listening to the doom soundtrack and eating pizza is peak Miko

[annarubys]

one thing i will say before going to sleep is that people are being so annoying about better than revenge it is not that deep if people listen to the old one and i hope no one who’s being weirdly aggressive about which version someone chooses to listen to still has music by john mayer chris brown insert literally any other known abuser in the music industry here in their playlists

[jewishrizahawkeye]

the death of media literacy has done irreparable damage to people being able to think critically about ANYTHING

like, yes taylor was 19 and legally an adult when she dated a 32 year old but are you not stopping and thinking that the person she dated prior was literally taylor lautner and joe jonas? and that is a 13 year age difference between those two. do you have ANY idea how much of a difference those two had an understanding in life? like she was just barley starting to live on her own and get a grasp on what adulthood is like and he dated her inspite of it. he literally said she would be coloring or drawing inbetween shots on filming and laughed at how much of a child she was but that didn’t stop him from dating her.

like i am BEGGING y’all to think about what a 13 year age difference in a relationship is actually like CAUSE IT FUCKS YOU UP