#there's a whole bunch of ways you can interpret this ig

[d-issent]

Botched. (Dissent AU.)

Peter Sam encounters Proteus. Having had the Sad Story of Smudger in the back of his mind for decades, he wishes on a whim for Smudger to be restored. Months later, after a remarkable discovery at the Mid Sodor, rebuild!Smudger is indeed - well, rebuilt - but has seemingly lost all of his memories in “exchange.” He loses his personality, his quirks, everything, he’s completely reset.  Peter Sam doesn't do well with guilt. This is part of the Dissent AU! So these guys are all robotisized - robofied? Robotified. Hell if I know. I could've written this with them as their normal engine selves that you see in the show but uhhh I didn't want to! Enjoy!

After days and days of a stalemate, on a hazy, muggy summer evening, Peter Sam finally spoke up, with no one around to hear him but the root cause of his grievances.

“I just feel so guilty,” he blurted out to his shed-mate, “I feel responsible. I feel like I’m the only one at fault for the state you’re in, and I can’t speak about how I feel without someone dismissing everything as ‘just an old fairytale.’ I can’t get closure like that.”

Silence followed his words, at least at first, but soon enough a gentle, almost melodic, metallic ticking of well-oiled parts began to sound, as the second occupant of the shed slowly stretched his arms up to the ceiling. As he moved, the cylinders in his shoulders and elbow joints clunked, releasing a few short, sharp jets of steam, and with it, the tension of the day’s work judging by the sigh of relief that also left him.

“Dunno how I feel about that wording of yours, Peter.” He finally replied, blinking rapidly as the fading daylight from outside prompted the automatic lights in his eyes to flicker on, bathing the shed’s dull, wooden ceiling beams in soft, golden light. Even on their lowest setting, they still illuminated the dust, the cracks and the spider webs stretched across the wood.

Another pause, then his voice sounded again, a twang of something that almost resembled humour mixed into his usual monotone.

“I like to think that I’m in a far better state than some of them poor bastards in the scrapyard at least.”

“That’s setting the bar pretty low if you ask me.” Peter Sam mumbled, his eyebrows pinching together in distress, a crease forming in the soft silicone of his face. “Anyway. My wording’s the least of my worries, God’s sake, Smudger, I’m pouring my heart out to you here, mate.”

“I know, I know. Sorry, I’ll try to be a little more compassionate.”

With another muffled cacophony of clicking and ticking, Smudger hauled himself up into a sitting position, more steam hissed, warming the already humid air.

“I don’t wanna sound like everyone else when I say this, I really don’t,” he began, “but aren’t I enough closure for you? I’m back up and running again, right?”

“Not all of you.” Peter Sam retorted, his voice deepening into an almost pouty, sulking tone. It was a wonder he hadn’t stuck out his bottom lip. “Sure you’re working, Percival even said he’s never seen a re-hauled engine operate so smoothly, but that’s all there is. So what if you’re a ‘miracle of engineering’? You’re not you, Granpuff said so.”

“Duke hasn’t made you feel like this, has he?” Smudger asked. “Because from what I’ve been told, he’s never had the best opinion of me.”

“He hasn’t done anything like that. He never wants to talk about the Mid Sodor anymore.” Peter Sam said defensively, proverbial hackles immediately raising at the thought of the tension between Smudger and his mentor. His hands twitched and twisted in front of him anxiously, wearing down the already peeling, plush grey silicone a little further down his fingertips, revealing the smooth metal beneath. 

Smudger eventually spoke up again, his shoulders pulled up around his head in a tiny shrug. 

“Eh. That’s his cross to bear, I guess. Anyway, even if I’m not all there as you said, I’m not sure if I even wanna be the ‘me’ I was back then if just the thought of that ‘me’ gives our fellow engines a headache, Peter.” 

The older engine tilted his head, eyebrows raising, bringing a little bit of life into his usual plain, weary expression.

“Leave your dang fingers alone. You know it’s not easy for management to get hold of that material. You wanna look like the Terminator?”

“Ugh…”

Peter Sam threw his mauled hands down with a groan of frustration, but the itch to do something with his hands just wouldn’t leave him, and soon enough he was back, almost stealthily picking at the peeling silicone, hoping against hope that Smudger wouldn’t notice.

Silence fell between the two of them, in which the air around them hung heavily with troubles yet to be spoken about, grievances yet to be aired. Peter Sam really couldn’t stand it, he knew that the night was drawing in, and with it the other engines, all groaning and complaining half-heartedly about the day’s work, yet all of them still content and chatting away, filling the shed with noise and stripping away all privacy. He wasn’t sure if he could go another day without getting this off of his chest, he feared his boiler might explode.

“Look. I know how silly this sounds, I know it’s nonsense!” He blurted out, voice high and wavering with misery. “But I know what I saw and I know what I did. I wanted you to be found, I wished for it, I asked Proteus to save you and he said, consider it done! Should’ve known that it would’ve been too good to be true; that it was a botched deal; look at what he’s done to you!”

He turned in his seat, gesturing wildly towards his bemused friend.

“You’re a total blank slate! I know everyone is all cock-a-hoop about your re-haul, everyone’s always talking about how good a job they did and everybody’s always saying how well you run and how bright and glossy your livery is, but what does it matter? You get up; you do your work; you come back here and that’s it! You hardly talk to anyone, you barely react to anything, it’s like you’re sleepwalking through life. Is that really what you want?”

“Sleepwalking through work doesn’t sound so bad.” Smudger quipped.

“God above, Smudger…”

Peter Sam ran his patchy hands down his face, the last remnants of steam leaking out from his ears, covering his face in a misty halo, obscuring his expression for a moment. 

He continued on.

“I didn’t ask for this. I didn’t ask for you to be so apathetic about everything, I asked for you to be given a second chance, but what does that matter if he didn’t bring you back? You’re completely rebuilt, you don’t have a single original part left, save for your chip, and even that got completely overwritten! It’s like you’re still lost under the Mid Sodor. You don’t remember what happened, you don’t remember who you were, you couldn’t even remember your name when you first came here, for goodness’ sake, and it’s my fault!” 

He exhaled sharply, leaning forward with a creak of metal, his head in his hands, shoulders hunched, a truly pitiful sight to behold.

“I hate sitting on all of this, and I hate that no one believes me.” He grumbled. 

Outside, the muggy, sticky heat was finally given a period of reprieve. From the murky sky, raindrops began to fall, thick and fast, peppering the ground and the buildings of the Skarloey Estate with much needed water, a roll of thunder sounded in the distance, deep yet muffled, a promise of a stormy night yet to come.

From the gaps between his fingers, Peter Sam saw Smudger tilt his head towards the sound inquisitively, and he couldn’t help but wonder if this was the older engine’s first storm since his retrieval from the Mid Sodor, and his suspicions were confirmed as he spoke;

“Man. It ain’t just you. Dang sky’s yelling at me and all now.” He muttered, his voice almost lost in the white noise of the rain.

Peter Sam grimaced.

“… I’m sorry,” he sighed, finally lifting his head out of his hands, an uncharacteristically haggard expression on his face, it made him look far older than he was, “didn’t mean to shout, really.”

“S’fine. Feels good to yell sometimes. You’re just lucky Handel ain’t around to make a fuss about the noise.”

Another lapse, and outside the rainfall turned into a deluge, pouring from the sky in a great sheet. The temperature steadily dropped, and the scent of petrichor lingered in the air; the sight and the smell normally would’ve brought some sense of comfort to Peter Sam, but tonight the gloomy weather just made him feel boxed in. He gazed reproachfully up into the dark hills that surrounded the estate, eyes narrowing.

Was Proteus up there right now? Skulking around, refusing to interact with anyone, human or engine, loyal to no railway, answering to no man; spreading his spoiled wishes across the island, duping silly little engines like him into thinking they could make a difference.

Oh. If he found him again… 

“Think you’re beating yourself up about this for nothing, y’know.” Smudger said, bright eyes watching the rain, blinking slowly, lazily. “All that spiel that came outta your mouth was great and all. But you didn’t actually stop to ask me how I feel about all of this, the uh… So-called victim of the hillbilly and his faulty lamp.”

Peter Sam drew his knees up to his chest, his face pulled into a sullen, moody arrangement, feeling for all the world like a student being reprimanded by his teacher. It was a weirdly familiar sensation, one that he really didn’t care to look into at the moment.

“Alrighty. Penny for your thoughts?” He asked, doing his best to lighten his tone.

“I ain’t that cheap, sorry,” Smudger sighed, barely disguising a yawn, it was clear that the older engine’s lack of steam was winding him down for the night, but still, he spoke, “look, I just reckon you’re thinking about all of this the wrong way. Sure, I don’t remember anything about Duke, or the Mid Sodor, but from what I’ve been told, I’m not sure I want to.”

“I can understand that.” Peter Sam nodded, though an awful, sour feeling now sat resolutely in his throat, a need to tell Smudger that he should at least be a little curious as to his origins, but he stayed silent, letting the older engine speak on.

“Even if I could remember all of my misfortune, all of my spills, all those decades spent as a generator, I’d probably wanna forget all that crap anyway.” Smudger said simply. “Wouldn’t you? Growing and healing from horrible stuff that’s happened to you is cool when it’s a plot for some cheesy novel, but it sucks in the real world. Would you wanna do it if you didn’t have to? I wouldn’t.”

“Depends on the engine.” Peter Sam pointed out. “Some of my friends wouldn’t be who they are today if they hadn’t gone through the hardships of life.”

“Guess you could argue that, yeah. But I’m not interested in working through everything that’s happened to me,” Smudger replied, “if I was given the choice, and I have been; I’m fine with not knowing. That’s good enough for me, and that should be good enough for you too, right?”

Peter Sam didn’t reply, but it was clear that Smudger’s words hadn’t sat well with him. He was frowning mightily, his mouth pressed into a thin line, and when he finally spoke again, that sulky edge was present once more, rough and grating.

“Being told about who you were and what happened to you isn’t the same as remembering it.” He grumbled. “It’s hard to think about the past, of course it is, but how are we supposed to grow if we don’t? We need that experience and those life lessons, otherwise we never learn anything, we end up doomed to repeat the same things over and over again.”

“Peter, I’m not stuck in a loop, you know.” Smudger said sharply. “I’m not an idiot, man. I’m not doomed to make mistakes and then immediately forget why and how I made them.”

The older engine sighed, a short and sharp exhalation of breath, a frustrated sound.

“Maybe I haven’t started growing yet,” he went on, “maybe you, and Duke have just gotta give me a chance to figure some stuff out first. Maybe this right here is gonna lead me to become whoever I am in the future. ‘Cept this time the world’s a kinder place, this time I’ve got a bit more sense and this time, I’ve got a couple hints as to what I shouldn’t do under my belt. How about that?”

“What happened to you on the Mid Sodor wasn’t right.” Peter Sam said doggedly, and in his anxious fidgeting, an entire strip of silicone was peeled away from his thumb, earning a grimace form him. “Fiddlesticks. You shouldn’t have been put away like that because of a bad track record, no engine who was treated like some object with no sentience did. What humans did to some of us back then was draconian, you know that, right?”

“That’s not what I’m getting at,” Smudger replied with a shake of his head, “I don’t wanna be a victim. I’m tryna reassure you that this is a far, far better start in life for an engine like me, and knowing what little I know about who I was back then is enough to make me wanna be better. Useful, if you want, that sounds like a second chance. Sounds like you got your wish to me.”

“But…”

Peter Sam struggled to think of another point to make, another angle at which he could approach this, all of what Smudger said made sense, but it still did nothing to appease the squirming, nauseating feeling of guilt inside of his stomach.

“Think what this all boils down to is you worrying that after all of that effort to restore me, I’ve ended up as some miserable prick. A bit like Duke,” Smudger snorted, casting a glance at the deluge outside, “contrary to what you think, I’m pretty happy right now. I’m not out in that mess at least. That’s a cause for celebration if you want my opinion.”

Peter Sam finally found himself cracking something like a smile, a wobbly expression that didn’t quite reach his eyes, and from across the shed, Smudger appeared to notice this, as with a groan of metal, he sat up a little straighter, fixing the younger engine with those intense, yet warm eyes.

“Peter Sam.”

“Smudger?”

“You did a good thing, alright? It’s fine.”

Peter Sam swallowed a retort, a retort that he wasn’t even sure he wanted to make. Something about the way Smudger spoke worked to calm the storm howling away inside of his head, after such a hard conversation, it was strange how just that simple sentence was enough to quell the unease plaguing him.

It’s fine.

Directly above Smudger’s head, the lamp hanging from the wooden ceiling beam suddenly fizzled, the lightbulb buzzing and dimming almost to the point of popping, before it flashed back up again, bright and warm as if nothing had happened.

Smudger glanced up, an eyebrow cocked.

Peter Sam held his breath, hoping against hope that nothing would come of it, hoping that it was just a faulty lightbulb, hoping…

“Someone’s gotta check out the wiring in this shed tomorrow.” Smudger commented, his eyes sliding closed. “Reckon I might know a thing or two about that.”

[athena-85]

i saw your post about gwynriel vs elriel on IG but i still think gwynrielis far more popular. When you enter other platforms like facebook and the groups the majority ships gwynriel (there's a poll in one group where gwynriel is winning with an 86% of votes) and it's disheartening because if the majority are shipping or thinking they might be a thing there's a chance there will be endgame

Hello Anon!

I know that it appears that way.

But

First- where are they on IG —> SJM’s main connection to social media

I find it is so odd when SJM posts on IG and there is no one from G stans who shows up? We all know its not because they are well behaved. (Multiple artists got bullied off the platform bc or them, big IG accounts always have someone commenting about G this and G that). Meanwhile a bunch of supportive Elriels are there just cheering on Elain. No one is commenting on SJM’s post that they are going ro burn her books if its not ELRIEL ( it is on goodreads for the other ship)

Second- a lot of the G stans haven’t read the whole series or ANY of the books:

If you have an account where they make comments of G under your elriel posts, I dare you to ask some of them what they thought of ACOFAS or the rest of the books, OR ACOSF!!!!

A lot of the tik tok followers that are just participating for the drama haven’t read all the books ( I posted a meme about Elriel from ACOFAS and a G-stan commented and admitted they hadn’t read the book but Gwynr*el was SO obvious?🤷🏽‍♀️)

LASTLY and most importantly

10-15,000 hard core fans that have been brainwashed (because that is what it is) by some accounts does NOT account for the MILLIONS ( truly that is how many people read her books) of readers of the book who are unaware of this god-awful ship war that actually makes no sense…. There is NO Gwynr*el in the canon they made it up! Also a lot of them don’t know about Azriel’s bonus POV (i still have people asking me about it)

So changing her plot would be very risky for SJM.

I am saying this now and anyone/ account can come back and tell me I am dumb but: the books have CURRENTLY!!!!!!! Been written as elriel endgame

The amount of canon cute scenes with Elain and az

The repetition of characters questioning the cauldron’s choice of mate for Elain

The repetition of Elain being saved by Azriel

The repetition of Elain being the only other being Azriel has lent TT too and she actually could use the daggers power to kill the king.

Also Feyre making a painting of them ( COME ON!!!)

Multiple (everyone in the IC) noticing Elain and Azriel moments

BOTH CHARACTERS IN CANON CARE AND WANT EACH OTHER!!!!! (Most important part when your theme is choice!)

So IF Sarah decided to change it from E/A to G/A, then she wasn’t the author I thought she was. If it does get changed I can happily leave the fandom and know I read the books correctly interpreting them.

❤️

Don’t get discouraged by the noise they make now, in 5 years it will truly mean NOTHING!

[thejudgingtrash]

Annabeth is a good person,but not a nice or pleasant one,IMO.

YES.

That’s it. That’s the post. Pack it up everybody, we just cracked the case and cleared up one of the most compelling fights in the PJO fandom since forever. Good job everybody, clap it out and there’s the door! Don’t forget ordering the drinks at Starbucks, Mitch! They’re on me!

Okay, but on a more serious note: YES. YES EXACTLY.

And before some of you roll your eyes or grab your pitchforks – put your biases aside and hear me out for once. I like Annabeth. She’s my in my top three characters only second to Percy himself. I love Percabeth. It’s my favorite ship in the entire series and to be frank, the only ship that I care about PJO wise. Hell, I spend my time creating my own headcanons or writing my own fanfics with Percabeth being the star in them.

But that is not to say that I’m unable to see how certain things have developed over the years or where they stand now in regard to Annabeth. I’m not here to ignore things that have been said and/or done due to or in the name of Annabeth and I’m not here to vilify anyone that doesn’t like her. And I’m here to admit that I’m guilty of some of the things that may be addressed in this meta essay that you will read in just a second. However, I try my best to assure you, that I’m for once able to recognize my own bias.

Warning: a monster essay lies right upon you.

This should count as a paper of its own.

Back to the statement on top: I would go out even further to reframe your claim, anon:

Annabeth Chase is a good character but not a nice or pleasant person.

Annabeth is a wonderful character but she isn’t a nice one. Or at least not nice to everyone. She is (construction wise if I dare say) the best character out of the series. She has her positive traits (she’s caring, she’s emotional, she’s encouraged and volunteers, she fights for what she believes in, she forgives (even if doing so begrudgingly)) but she also has her negative traits (she’s stubborn, she’s brash, changing her mind takes forever, she is prejudiced, she baits others). That balances things out. She is branded as the intelligent kid but does irrational things (like I’ve just said a) she’s a kid and b) she’s not a robot). She should probably know better, but we all make mistakes and hopefully grow and learn from them. The clouds in the sky do blur and cover our visions sometimes.

Annabeth had clashes with other characters or was about to have fights due to her stubbornness or jealousy (Rachel, Reyna, etc.) and has of course her problems with the mortal world and her family but she also found new friends, some things cleared up throughout the narration and she was/is quite popular in Camp Half-Blood.

The thing is: she doesn’t have to be nice or pleasant (as a character). Or at least not all the time. Her character is humanized. That is what or who she is. Human. She does stand out as a character, not just because she’s the (future) love interest. She feels like someone you could meet in real life and either adore from the top to the bottom or declare as your biggest enemy. And that’s totally okay if you lean either way – liking or disliking her. Or even feeling indifferent about her. Also great!

To say that she has been the best character that Riordan has crafted is easy to say, because she has been sculpted after Riordan’s wife. He had a model he could rub some of real-life events or traits on. That’s not the problem. The problem truly doesn’t lie on Riordan’s side for the most part for once.

The problem is inherently on the fandom’s side. What the fandom does, how it acts and how it treats Annabeth as a character is the problem. The problems vary but it’s mostly the mischaracterization of Annabeth, starting fights and fan/ship wars, internalized misogyny (in some cases) and how some of the Annabeth stans lash out (ha, got firsthand experience in that field among many of my friends and mutuals!). There is a reason why many people are wary of people that have Annabeth or Percabeth related URLs.

The fact that we see Annabeth mostly through Percy’s lens and (until the Heroes of Olympus saga hits) we never really see her in chill everyday situations is essentially Riordan leaving the back door of the house open, ready for all of you asshats to rob his mansion in Boston. Because a frame on a character means that we don’t get to see the character in its entirety (unlike we do with Percy in PJO for the most part). That means a bunch of stuff is left open for interpretation which is the reason why Annabeth gets so many polarized headcanon and opinions tossed around. I think that is one of the true appeals of Annabeth. You can add on stuff and it necessarily doesn’t have to contradict itself.

We have people calling her abusive due to a (n admittedly stupid and unnecessary) judo flip and we have people that act like she’s never done anything wrong. People sorta use this excuse to form and shape Annabeth however they want and distort her characterization.

People in the fandom act like Annabeth is some weird prized possession. We perceive Annabeth mostly through the eyes of others (Percy, Apollo, etc.) and when we had some sort of insight in her ways (MOA, HOH) it felt… weird? Somewhat? Like Riordan left two bullet points of her characterization and told the ghostwriter: aight, fuck it up, gringo, see you on Tuesday and greet Fred the next time you see him for me. 

There have been many posts lately (by Tharini, Simi, Sawasawako, Jewishpercy and Annie I believe?) that HOO Percabeth felt weird. That they felt weirdly constructed, that there was no conflict, no growth. It felt stagnating, like we’re turning back. We had five books prior where we had Annabeth and Percy slowly shifting from disliking to liking and crushing each other. True development. And when we finally got the cake it felt… dissatisfying. Like the cheap box stuff and not the delicious exquisite taste that we were promised.

I said it previously in my Percabeth ship roast, but let me repeat myself: many Percabeth related things are straight up fanon. Some of it is very old fanon so that’s been unable to distinguish unless you’ve read the books recently and subtract nearly 99,9% of things you see on Tumblr (and occasionally the other shitty parts of the fandom like Reddit, IG, Twitter. Although they mostly steal and recycle tumblr stuff oh well. But back to the topic).

The way people treat Annabeth is so strange. She’s either an innocent fluffy smush baby that’s never harmed a fly and all that she wants for Christmas is being Percy’s lapdog or she’s the devil incarnate, broke into your house, killed your parents Batman style, kicked your puppy and didn’t flush the toilet on the way out. I think this is what mostly makes people hate her or the ship Percabeth. And both extremes are wrong and right at the same time? She is multifaceted so both stereotypes are true and untrue and sorta cancel each other out in the same way.

The true reason why people dislike Annabeth is because the stans are doing the most. (The haters as well, don’t get me wrong, but oh boy. Piss of a stan and you’ll know what I mean). That isn’t inherently new. Are you guys old enough to remember the ship wars that have happened cross platform? Perachel vs. Percabeth? Oh boy, oh boy. I saw some kids on tumblr a few months ago trying to infiltrate both tags and start shit (and also fail). The fact that Rachel still gets used as the bitchy (ex) girlfriend in fanfics? It’s 2020 guys. I know this apocalyptic year is far from perfect and over but I think we can let this trope die, right? Right? I thought we’ve established that Rachel is a pretty chill charcter by now… right?

If you posted your stuff on FFN back in 2010-2013 and it wasn’t the typical cutesy Percabeth story (Goode High, the gods read TLT, punk/prep Percabeth, college AU, etc.) people would’ve come for your fucking throat. Not because the story or the narration was shit. But because the pairing wasn’t Annabeth and Percy (in the sense that Annabeth had to be paired with Percy. I mean Percy gets shipped with everyone and their mother but for Annabeth it was strictly Percy. As annoying as this whole Connabeth thing is – the people behind it actually had a point. She never had a different love interest unless it’s a Percy centered story and he goes off dating Athena, Artemis and Zoe at the same time for some odd reason. Yeah, FFN Percy ships are something). Or it wasn’t the action filled canon compliant story or it wasn’t an AU that was popular.

People were really stubborn, snobbish and wanted their stuff in the four five boxes that were the most popular ones and that’s it. People have been bullied off the site in many fandoms, so it’s not a PJO-only thing but it’s still sad that it happened. (Off-note: most of these FFN tropes are still alive and well and thriving on AO3. Don’t be so snobbish and pretend that every piece you’d find there is a holy grail. There’s a lot of trash you have to waddle through. Same with Wattpad, Tumblr or anywhere else where fanfics get posted. Also had this discussion with Annabeth stans. Sigh).

And Tumblr back then? Forget it, wasn’t much better.

That view has sorta changed (at least for people that have been in the fandom for several years or have managed to find a way to navigate through it) but some of the negative sentiment from back in the day has survived. Be it by new fans coming in or from old fans that never let their stance die. The aggression feels differently and somewhat not. (I don’t know if the anon function had been abused that much back in the day. I was an observer not a participant in the fandom).

Crack a joke at Annabeth’s expense (Kal’s famous “Annabeth is a Republican” post or Dee Dee’s and many others “Annabeth has the education of a second grader, chill with the college plans, girlie” stance) and you have people insulting you, making callout posts, unfollowing and blocking you (based on only that? Okay, honey), making aggressive counter-posts, etc. in a minute. If you respond with “It’s a joke, it’s not real” you have a 50/50 chance of either getting blown off or embarrassing them so that they apologize for once.

This isn’t just about jokes. You can make a headcanon that’s not the cozy cute convenient mainstream saga and people would react the same way. Or art piece (no, not including the whole Tannabeth Blackchase shtick done by Viria and others) or fanfics.

People project so much onto the unfinished canvas that is Annabeth Chase that any form of negative sentiment as little as someone not liking her to straight up criticism, regardless of how tiny it may be, seems like an affront. Like an invitation to a fight. Like an insult to them, their character, everything they believe in. Let me state something:

You are NOT Annabeth Chase. Annabeth Chase IS NOT you. Annabeth Chase is NOT real. Her feeling cannot be hurt. Someone criticizing, disliking, joking about her or even insulting her will not bother her. Someone making a statement about her is not an insult to YOU.

Let me repeat that:

Annabeth Chase isn’t real. Annabeth Chase isn’t you.

So think a little before you act? I get it when you’re a kid and new to fandoms or haven’t been up with fan cultures in the past and are back in the scene. But if you’re in your late teens or even older as an adult and you’re unable to understand that you aren’t what you like – you aren’t the extension of a fictional character – I feel incredibly sorry for you. Because that’s just incredibly sad. Someone disliking something you like isn’t an attack of your character. It shows you that you are you and the other person is a human just like you. That they just have different taste. Disliking something you like isn’t a crime, you know? But me feeling sorry for the way some of y’all act won’t mean that that’s even remotely okay. Especially if you’re no longer in the intended audience for PJO age wise and should know better.

This isn’t a “white stans” only thing. I’ve seen and witnessed firsthand how people of color, mainly women of color, act the same or not even worse when it comes to her character. People have projected their problems and real-life occurring events into her character (I’m sure that she isn’t the only character nor that this is the only fandom where this is happening) and in some cases like I’ve said cannot separate their own personality from the fictional world. Fights with woc happened because of Annabeth fucking Chase. So many things have happened in the fandom the past few months, mostly due to people being forced staying at home because of the quarantine but I’d say it’s 10% on quarantine and 90% on people for acting up like this.

So here’s a little story: There was the act of Riordan blowing the fandom up because of his own stupidity and being unable to apologize for his mischaracterization and lack of research (the whole Piper fiasco) back in June (?) and admits the upset fandom, people on Twitter, Tumblr and Discord legit thought that none of that mattered and that the outcry was destroying Annabeth Chase’s birthday. That’s right. People thought that Annabeth Chase’s non-existing birthday because she’s a fictional character had a higher priority than the rupture and prevalent racism in the fandom. Okay. This isn’t a great look, Annabeth stans. And this of course pissed a lot of people off. I made a post about it and someone not only berated three other people on said post but no, we had a mighty argument which had disrupted many friendships in our circle which haven’t recovered until this very day. We both had our parts in it and no one is innocent. But the cause of this still remains Annabeth Chase or how people prioritize her non-existing well-being. Anyway. I’m getting agitated just thinking about it.

Let’s go back to the characterization thing with Annabeth. Let me remind you:

Annabeth Chase is an asshole. There I’ve said it in a post ages ago (too lazy to look it up, sorry) and I’ll say it again. And that’s not me insulting her. That’s me actually loving that about her. Annabeth is one of the very few unapologetic female characters that really showed all young readers across the world that you can be a girl, a badass, smart, strong, standing up for yourself and what you believe in. You don’t have to be nice. You don’t have to hide your feelings. You don’t need a man in all cases but it’s also okay to accept help and defeat.

A large reason why I think she’s an incredibly important character in children’s literature/YA because many other novels (mostly (sadly)) have the “Oh, I’m a white skinny dark-haired girl that likes unconventional things like READING. I’m not like the other girls, that take care of themselves and pamper themselves by enjoying shopping and wearing make-up. No, I’d rather be one of the boys but a sweet cute little boy and not the jock fuck that drank vodka shots out of a filthy shoe once. Despite me calling myself hideous every man in a 10-kilometer radius falls in love with me and tells me I’m oh so sexy and by the way I’m only 16 years old” shit going on for no goddamn reason.

Yes, I do blame Twilight for this mostly in recent years, but this trope isn’t by any means knew. Pretty sure that you could even use classics as Pride and Prejudice and dissect them in the same manner (Bold statement: Lizzy Bennet is the OG Bella Swan. There. Go fight somewhere in the corner, people). The new wave of YA focuses on girls belittling themselves and only starting to believe in themselves because someone else (mostly the male love interest) tells them they’re worth it. And these books hit the mainstream because they’re incredibly bland and picture perfect white.

With Annabeth it’s different. She shows up for the job and is done with it. (Brie Larson would probably be the perfect in real life version of her. You either like or dislike her. Or you really don’t care). That is what is so refreshing about her. Her unapologetic nature. Can it be off-putting? Yes. Is it annoying? Yes! Hell, every time I read The Lightning Thief, I want to rip her goddamn head off. And it’s just so well written. Her shift from mistrusting Percy but secretly still believing in him to her opening up. Wow, Riordan did something right there.

Annabeth Chase isn’t a young character. She has existed along with PJO for 15 years. She’s on her way to the second decade. I’m pretty sure that with the success of Percy Jackson (and Harry Potter) many lives have been warped and shaped.

But when I say the problem lies mostly in the fandom, it doesn’t mean that Riordan’s completely innocent. The only problem that I have with Annabeth lies not truly with her but the fact that Riordan is only able to produce three variations of female characters:

The sweetheart (Hazel, Silena, Calypso, Hestia)

The strong feminist (Annabeth, Piper, Thalia, Reyna, Artemis)

The bitch (Drew, nearly every female goddess in the goddamn Riordanverse next to every female monster)

And these female characters only know three endings:

End up married with a mortgage, three kids, two dogs and a cat somewhere in Connecticut by the age of twelve

Get dumped into the hunt

Chill on Mount Olympus and only come down to be a nuisance and/or give a cryptic message before going back and doing a godly rave party or something

We know Annabeth as the badass strong female first (or the bitchy character we’re supposed to actually like. Choose your approach), the blueprint so to speak, so some of the other characters feel almost pale in comparison and almost not needed? Doesn’t mean that other characters can’t behave similarly, but it feels kind of redundant especially if their character arcs end in a rather anticlimactic way (Thalia, Reyna). The new additions are the much needed woc as the main story with PJO was inherently white (anyway stan black!Percy and Grover, folks). So it’s not to bash on the new characters, it’s more Riordan’s fault more than anything.

Since Riordan only knows three female character arcs it feels like he tried to copy the formula several ways with different nuances. Some more or less successful. This is where fandom actually comes in handy and helps create more distinguished and fleshed out characters in form of headcanons or fanfiction.

But even in these cases people still make it about Annabeth when it’s time for characters of colors to shine. Remember that whole spiel and discussion that broke out when people (Kal, diver-up, Caitlyn, Bee, reynaisalesbian, etc.) joked about or criticized that Annabeth thinks that she’s having it harder because she’s a blonde? In front of Hazel and Piper? If she would’ve been a real person that’s an invitation for getting decked. And then all hell broke loose because Annabeth stans couldn’t accept the fact that in the real world and/or in fictional worlds the woc/coc have it harder? That the white woman wasn’t the victim that needed the coddling? Yeah, that was mad pathetic.

I hope you people get my point?

Well fuck. I wrote so many things and have the feeling I’ve said nothing. Anyway, I hope I made sense. This is way too long.

TLDR: Chill about Annabeth please. She’s an important character but that doesn’t mean that everyone has to like her, regardless of being a character in the books or a reader/fan of PJO in real life. She isn’t nice or a sweetheart all the time. She also isn’t the monstrous asshole that some try to make out of her.

Peace out.

[mellowshipsu]

hi can i get an mc ship? thx! (I’m not projecting onto some emo isekai rat I made what are you talking about)

So my mc is a sleep deprived sarcastic prick with a soft squishy inside. They make a noticeable effort to be as strange and off putting as possible in an attempt to keep people from harassing them (can’t scare them away with magical prowess or scary appearances, gotta seem completely insane ig) They’re an artist and their sketches are full of some weird interpretations of their classmates. Probably some amogus versions of the boys. They try to make themselves seem like an open book, joking about their more surface level issues, but they have a lot of trouble truly opening up. They care a lot for those around them despite the passive aggressive act, and don’t want people to worry.

Anyways thx, hope you have a great day ^^

Strange and mysterious you may be.

He is not intimidated by you one bit.

You may act rash and mean.

He'll be there to take a hit.

But if he dodges you'll take a bite.

He'll make fun and he will tease.

Making you two playfully fight.

He's the one for you, the sly---

Ruggie Bucchi!

(image by: ikathousandflowers)

Shihihi! What an interesting person you are. Ruggie first noticed you sleep deprived sitting under a tree, one of Leona's favorite napping spots. He noticed you were drawing something, so he decided to go around to sneak up on you to see what you drew. He saw you draw a whole bunch of one-eyed spacemen things. He didn't really understand what the heck it was, but he's no artist. You seemed to sense someone behind you and turned your head to see Ruggie. How impressive! You detected a carnivore! Good for you! Then to his surprise, you hissed at him. He was quiet for a moment before busting a gut laughing, oh you were interesting.

So from that day, Ruggie chose to mess with you to see your cute reactions.

In class you were sketching with a lead pencil, so when you weren't looking he switched the regular lead with red lead. Which made you make a displeased face. Shihihi! When Ruggie was in line to get a meat cutlet for Leona, you purposely bought the last three, took a bite out of them in front of him and threw them in the trash. Ahahaha! You were walking in the courtyard and he used his signature spell to control your body and made you jump in the school's fountain. Shihihi! You snuck into Savanaclaw when Ruggie was washing Leona's clothes and tripped him, dirtying the fresh clean clothes. Ahahaha!

You two had a prank war for weeks, but it always seemed fun. You two would walk pass each other at school with mischevious smiles, thinking about the next pranks you had in store for each other.

Then one day, a group of Savannah students decided to bully you for some reason. Most likely because you were strange. Maybe because you stepped on someone's tail without apologizing. Ruggie didn't really know. But when he saw them push you, Ruggie rushed over and bared his fangs at them with a growl. His hair stood up and he looked absolutely feral. "Back off, they're mine!" He growled which made the students back up a bit before walking away. The hyena calmed down and turned his gaze at you. He apologized about the students and if he scared you. You said no but asked what he meant when you were 'his'. He just blushed and looked away shyly, "You know... like only I can annoy you." You simply told him that you had the same feelings, no one can mess with him but you. The two of you had goofy smiles and chuckled, it was a weird way to proclaim your love for each other.

"Ooo, someone's grumpy. I take care of Leona, you think you can scare me? Shihihi! Think again, I like annoying you."

[systemquirks]

we're the same anon from the camera thing. heres a list of other shit that goes on in here

the body is a member of our sys. they're our gatekeeper. but anyway, when we first found them, they insisted they weren't a member. but not in the usual way? more like "yes i'm conscious but i'm not a headmate i'm literally the body". and now, they're whole shtick is that "front is an extension of the physical body, and i'm an extension of front." because of that they're a little goopy lad that materializes whenever. they're always in front/always listening ig.

our headspace/frontroom if fucking complicated. like what the hell. its all connected too like what (i'll talk about why later)

we're a comb system

our adhd directly affects our system its fucking weird. like, we described it once as a bunch of sticks of butter in a pan and they're all half melted. distinct people, but kinda melty and sticking together.

when someone is fully in front, they experience the symptoms of. everything we have. even if they dont have those conditions in headspace. (this usually ends up with the headmate not fully in front like "just do ur work!!!!!". that situation has happened way too many times.)

also! being in the front room doesn't mean directly fronting. it depends on how close you are to the ledge. (the ledge is where you sit on when you front. yes we've fallen down there many times. fun fact old headspace is down there)

okayyy headspace time. our headspace used to change on its own but then the algebrailens formed. (they're fictives of algebrailens from bfdi) they have the ability to just fuck around and change headspace entirely. and front too. the body is usually the one to keep it all in check.

we have system resets often *explodes*

yaya systems yehaw

Woo! What a long list!

That sounds like how Rice used to feel sometimes, at least a little. We're all glad she sorted out that she's an alter for us! It's interesting to hear someone else who's experienced "I am literally The Body"

Our innerworld is also incredibly complicated, at least if we try to put it into real world terminology. It can be hard to explain "We have infinite rooms that exist in a compressed linear space" haha

"Comb System" sounds similar to some other systems I've spoken to! I personally don't struggle with such high dissociative barriers - lucky me! That sounds difficult to handle (if I'm interpreting it right?)

Our autism pairs horribly with our system. You mean I already struggle with time blindness and repeating myself constantly, and now I get that x2? Joy.

Same here, though we experience those symptoms differently between us. I have issues with sound, whereas Debra hyperfixates like NO ONES business.

The ledge idea is just like how our system functioned back in the day! Whoever was in the innermost fronting circle was fronting, and when people started to switch in, they had to travel on the circles.

Headspace stuff is always so interesting to me! We're not the best at changing our headspace consciously - it just happens around us, typically with new splits or new needed areas.

I've actually never been super clear on what system resets actually are. It's not anything I have any experience with. I certainly wish you the best however!

[thatsparrow]

thor love and thunder thoughts (spoilers)

it was fine

highlight: truly every moment tessa thompson was on screen. in love with her valkyrie styling, her earth streetwear and every blend of the two. did I need canon confirmation that she’s bi? no, but it was nice anyway. I also fully choose to interpret her saying to thor “you and I play for the same team” in omnipotent city as a moment of bi camaraderie

critique: this is sort of a big one, but the movie as a whole felt tonally lost. look at ragnarok, which had a clear narrative message, a clear and satisfying arc for thor’s character, and all the plot points and humor in between served both those elements. the arc of love and thunder can mostly be boiled down to “thor needs to learn to love again” (which, gets sort of confused in whether that’s romantic love or platonic love or both) but the process of that journey doesn’t at all seemed served by the plot itself. like, hela works as the villain in ragnarok because she represents the history of imperialism and warfare that asgard was founded on, and as ragnarok is about thor coming into his own as king after odin’s death, defeating her is as much a symbolic rejection of asgard’s legacy (in addition to the very real destruction of the city itself) as it as about beating the bad guy. in love and thunder, gorr’s mission to destroy the gods for not protecting their believers feels like an absolute mismatch with thor’s journey to open his heart (and the two only get weakly tied together at the very end)

highlight: i like hela as a villain, but there’s more to her as a symbol than there is depth or motivation to her character. love and thunder seemed aware of that and took the time to establish gorr’s rationale as a villain, which was certainly not unreasonable given his history (although, for what ultimate purpose? love ig)

critique: so. jane. bonus highlight, jane as mighty thor makes some fucking points, and her exuberance in costume, her personal fighting style w mjolnir and her dynamic w valkyrie were all great. the critique—what was the point of any of it except to further thor’s storyline? truly she only felt brought back for. idk girlboss points and to teach him it’s better to love and get hurt than not to love at all, because that’s her ultimate impact on the story—how her death affects him. come on

highlight: the shadow monsters were very fun visually, and added a darker, creepier element to the story that, honestly, I wish taika had leaned into further. like you introduce the idea of fighting with and disappearing into shadows, give christian bale that makeup and those teeth, plus the kidnapping of a bunch of children and you’ve got the makings for something dark and unsettling that would then have made those moments of humor much more narratively interesting and powerful

critique: the absence of loki has been mentioned enough that I won’t spend too much time on it, but the lack of that dynamic really is a bummer

idk other miscellaneous thoughts

since when does heimdall have a son? and with no exploration of what it meant to him to have heimdall as a father, that inclusion really just felt like it was serving the plot to keep thor in contact w the kids

omnipotent city was very whatever. it was truly just a weaker version of sakaar, and zeus just a weaker version of the grandmaster. okay, so zeus doesn’t care about protecting other gods or stopping gorr. do truly all the other gods feel that way? they certainly seemed to, in which case, doesn’t that prove gorr’s point? doesn’t that demonstrate a need to uproot or change the system that serves the gods but doesn’t serve the people?

i. guess I’m glad sif’s alive? for the whole two minutes she was on screen. and that the movie acknowledged how ragnarok killed off the warriors three (which is one of my main beefs with the movie, how completely it disregards the importance of their friendship w thor and the impact on him of their deaths) but it also couldn’t be bothered to remember hogunn’s name so. not my favorite

okay the ending. the ending. so the whole resolution of this is now thor has a daughter? who he’s ready to take care of because jane taught him to love again? okay?? but very little time spent on how he’s been impacted by familial loss (say, the recent loss of loki) other than the back tattoo?? truly it just felt like a clumsy way to tie the thor/gorr narrative arcs together. the kid is cute, don’t get me wrong, and they’re cute together, but it’s hard to feel invested in the dynamic when it felt so last minute and slapdash

honestly overall the movie felt like it would have benefited from a stronger editing hand. ragnarok worked so well for me because so much of it felt new and surprising in the context of a marvel/superhero movie, in terms of its humor and its self-awareness. love and thunder doesn’t seem to know what it wants to do most of the time, and so doesn’t accomplish much of anything at all

[lyrebirdswrites]

not me drawing and interpreting proper astrological birth charts for the jjk main trio now that the official fan book finally gave us their birthplace in addition to their birthday 👀

Explanation under the cut! (edited to be more beginner friendly)

Quick disclaimer ig: this is just my personal interpretation of these placements. If you read the way I describe something and you think to yourself “hang on, I have this placement and this doesn’t sound like me at all” that would be because a) I am an amateur astrologer and I do this for fun, I don’t know everything about every sign/planet, and b) no placement exists in isolation - it’s influenced by the house it’s in as well as any other planets aspecting it - so it’s possible that the placement manifests in a less conventional/standard way due you because of such factors.

EDIT: my first draft of this post was not super beginner friendly so here’s a quick astrology 101 to help people understand wtf I’m talking about. Skip to the next photo if you don’t need a primer.

Everyone has ten main planets in their birth chart, each of those planets will fall under a different sign depending on when and where you were born. The planet governs an area of your personality, the sign shows what that area of your personality is like. Some quick definitions of the relevant planets for this post:

Sun: the one everyone thinks of when asked ‘what’s your star sign’. Your basic personality, your core, your ego.

Moon: symbolises emotion, intuition, your private internal world, and how feelings are expressed.

Mercury: symbolises communication, intellectual reasoning, and how you learn.

Venus: symbolises romance, aesthetics, how you socialize, and pleasure-seeking behaviours like shopping or sightseeing.

Mars: the source of your passion/drive/motivation. Symbolises where and how you expend your energy.

Retrograde: not a planet, just something the planets do sometimes. At some points in the year the planets look like they’re moving ‘backwards’ through the sky, and this alters their influence on the birth chart.

I think that’s probably enough but shoot me an ask if you’re curious/confused! I’m always happy to talk astrology (clearly lol)

Megumi... I always suspected he had scorpio influence somewhere in his chart and turns out I was right!! Not only scorpio venus but scorpio mars too?? I’m obsessed with this. Scorpio is a water sign (read: big on emotions), the embodiment of the phrase ‘still waters run deep’, and though scorpio placements are not always loud about their affection they tend to bond in a pretty intense way with their chosen people. Those venus and mars placements together really do speak of ride or die devotion - no wonder he’s Like That when it comes to Yuuji people he cares about.

His jupiter and saturn are both in retrograde; I would not have predicted it because I don’t think about natal retrograde all that much, but it actually makes a lot of sense imo. Retrograde jupiter usually indicates someone who is internally very philosophical in the sense that the person will define their own firm moral/ethical code instead of following a familial or societal belief system, which is pretty much megumi ‘I save people according to my own conscience’ fushiguro in a nutshell. While retrograde saturn is basically like. On the outside you’re stoic but on the inside you’re a worrywart, and you take responsibility Super Seriously but you also don’t like people with authority pushing you around needlessly. Which is also megumi in a nutshell lol.

His leo moon was a surprise but I honestly think it works for him because this is definitely where Unhinged Feral Megumi comes from: when he decides to go all out he gets such a flair for the dramatic. capricorn sun and capricorn mercury are pretty intuitive tbh, he really gives off capricorn vibes - practical, reserved, loyal, ambitious and tenacious, possessing a dry wit, capable of putting in steady hard work to get to where he wants to be.

I was already aware of Nobara’s leo sun because we’ve had their birth dates for a while now (birthplace is the new info which lets me draw the whole chart). But her cancer moon is such a lovely placement under that hard outer shell of hers. Nobara seems like she does not have a nurturing bone in her body, but it’s wrong to stereotype cancers as exclusively homebody motherly types - they have deep loyalty for their chosen family/home and they’ll go to the ends of the earth for those people in their own way whatever that may be... she really is a softie deep down 🥰 she really does care 🥰 thinkin about the end of her ch 125 flashback in this context

Nobara’s virgo mercury is actually kind of funny to me because while it indicates a natural gift for intellect and a talent for sorting out the fine details, it also has the potential to make someone a harsh critic who can nitpick and be quite blunt in stating their opinions... this is very Nobara, she does Not spare the feelings of anyone she is talking to lol.

Libra venus!! She has libra venus that’s so perfect!!! this placement is sophisticated and charming and always classy, these people adore that classic chocolates-and-roses romance but they turn love of all kinds into an art form. Traditionally the placement is also associated with people who care about beauty and harmony, who will go out of their way to look good for their companions. Also her leo mars... I love that. It’s really amplifying her bold outspoken flashy self-loving take-charge nature. Queen energy right here.

She has a bunch of natal retrogrades but the one I want to talk about is retrograde uranus... this one is Very fitting and again almost funny in the context of her character. You know how she’s always convinced she’s the only sane person in the room when actually she’s the unhinged one 24/7 and not self aware about that in the slightest? Yeah. That’s big retrograde uranus vibes.

Oh Yuuji... I could talk about your pisces sun all day 🥺 I could get Very technical and meta about the pisces association with the twelfth house and the fact that it’s ruled by neptune and what that says about his character, but I don’t have the room or the time so I’ll save that for another post. For now I’ll just say that the fact that he cares so deeply for others regardless of how well he knows them, the way he feels his feelings so intensely and is very intuituve/sensitive to others needs, him being interested in the occult before he ever found Sukuna’s fist finger, it all just seems more pisces to me than any other sign. And him having pisces mercury + pisces uranus in addition to his sun is also very sweet... our boy really thinks with his heart at all hours of the day doesn’t he?

His libra moon is such a fitting placement, too, because this moon is all about relationships - not just romance but bonds of all kinds, friends and family and companions of any sort. Yuuji as a character is so motivated by the bonds he shares with others and his desire to not be alone, especially on his deathbed. Libra moons are charming and personable and find it very easy to connect with others, they are deeply concerned with justice and will be accepting of everyone except for people who are cruel (exhibit a: just look how he responded to mahito). I think it’s a very apt moon for him to have.

Tbh if I were picking and choosing I might have loaded him up with yet more pisces energy and given him my favourite placement in the whole world, venus in pisces. But he actually has an aquarius venus and I think that’s so interesting! The part of this placement that speaks to his character for me is the way that aquarius venus love is defined by radical acceptance - there is never any judgement (I won’t judge you, Junpei!), because this venus seeks not only to see and understand but to be seen and understood in turn. Some say aquarius venus is an emotionally detached placement. I think that’s a mischaracterisation, but it is true that aquarius placements can be low key scared of intimacy and vulnerability even when they crave it lmao. An aquarius venus will sort through turmoil in their heart by retreating to think it over in isolation, rather than by submitting to the mortifying ordeal of being known and reaching out. Manga readers if u know u know

All I can say about his capricorn mars is that it definitely embodies that determined protagonist vibe. Thoughts like ‘I want to get stronger, I want to be the best, I’ll put in the work to come out on top’ are very capricorn thoughts to have, and the drive and forward momentum associated with mars really push them to the front of his character. But also, again; an underdeveloped capricorn mars under stress will shut out possibilities for connection with loved ones by dedicating themselves to their job or cause. Yuuji learn healthy coping mechanisms challenge 2k21.

[lepertamar]

about this post,

mysterium 

YES ok i was going wild over the form of the text, as a true/false questionnaire, because it explicitly invites multiple readings and considerations about each individual line which i always think is massive but i really like how it plays with the message of the poem, because it plays really well with e.g. item 19, where the "potency" of the poem is embedded in the poem itself and not in the interpretations given to it -- you're invited to interpret but it's secondary to the Truth of the poem (since the poem is written less like a good/unbiased t/f questionnaire and more as just a series of true statements)

coal

oooooooooohhhhh!!! that;s extremely true........

i also feel so......wow i wrote a whole bunch trying to explain what the potential of collapsing-together of 'did x consequence arise from y thing, how and in which direction, by what mechanism or rationale' and........this poem is so much more coherent than me at a lot of that concept

the potency of the poem also as that-which-can-generate-many-interpretations, there is no interpretation where the potency secretly actually is stored.....is so much (cough torah voice) 

mysterium

oO YEAH!!! i like how your writings and the poem are examples of the same thing, of there being a Singular Thing which is so potent that you're both trying to get at and having different ways of putting into words because the core is so big and potent that it's not really able to directly be spoken about

coal

yeaH...even, 'you must describe it in multiple and different or even contradictory ways to even gesture to the core's power'

kind of outline it by bouncing various different streams of particles at it, or track its reactions to various different chemicals or its movements through different substrates

mysterium

yesss !!! something so unknowable it can only be observed through the reactions it has on other things...

[which, is exactly how the pale in disco elysium functions :3c] 

coal

i love concepts like that.....though my favorite are things that aren't 'just give up on trying it's beyond your comprehension' and are more 'this isn't knowable the way most things are knowable...you can know many many things about it but it will never run out of more mystery or unknowns' (if that makes sense)

mysterium

i dont like the "its beyond your comprehension" too, it feels like such a cheap cop out to me. it's a sort of... dead end? "you can never comprehend it ig" vs "i dare you to try and comprehend this". 

 it's a bit like how that one tumblr post about how to write good eldritch stuff with the example of the ant seeing the world as a human does for a second... its not the ant is going to go mad because it's knowing something thats fundamentally incompatible with its ant-mind, it's... how can the ant do anything but go mad and spend the rest of its days searching to try find out more

[unproduciblesmackdown]

returning the favor: do you have any hcs re: winston, past or present, that you haven't expounded upon before or at length or just feel like talking about again. whatever you like

Thank You.......yeah idk really what hc's i've like "officially" described here that often lol, but then also there's that whole complication where i don't really ever come up with ideas & when asked anything i'm probably going [???] like, classics like "what do you like out of [broad parameter]" & it's like damn....i dunno. what ideas do i have about winsotn who i've thought about every day for > 2 yrs??? that's tough.....& Then the further chaos of like, when i do have hc's or w/e it's less discrete, concrete invented ideas & more towards the end of the spectrum that's like "well i kinda interpret this part of canon vaguely this way" &/or "i have This vague notion that i haven't solidified into a pretend fact or that i'm not at all committed to or take that seriously" where it's like, not only is this not really nailed down but it's basically free floating / i might have other ideas that would contradict each other lol. seems like a more concise list of Stats that are fully/exclusively my ideas is more exciting, but instead i can offer vague "i dunno / what ifs" based on vibes that i verbosely describe lmao, plus i'll forget a bunch of ideas i may have had i'm sure but you know. what else have i ever offered; never really trying to sell this material to otherwise uninterested parties or only make posts that guaranteed more than one person might enjoy, why would i be starting now; and ig if i write a bunch of stuff here & go "oh & i forgot like a half dozen obvious things" i can add on to it if it's a big deal.....plus it's always tricky with billions in particular being vague abt its own characters lmao, we only see [outside of work] personal stuff if it's going to become directly tied to [definitely at work] professional plotlines, or Maybe glimpse some character contextualizing things for the more central characters....side characters have more blanks to fill but also that means. just more that's blank lol & kinda a mystery of Up To Interpretation.....i figured one way to have any structure for this at all is to have a part looking at each winston involving episode's info. well anyways, after this meandering intro that kind of illustrates how i'm sure the rest of things will go here lol, i'm just gonna throw a bunch of stuff down in general. thanks again for the prompt to do so, b/c why not

really the one concrete discrete idea i have which isn't in the canon text is, of course: he is autistic

does he Know? idk. either way, think he's pretty aware of how he operates (& how he Can't operate), but if he doesn't know that's probably more for the "also: he's self loathing, which was basically textually implied" stuff lol. just mentioned it but i do always enjoy the tayston idea that taylor's talking abt in the past having it floated by a therapist/s or whomever that they could be autistic, them considering it but it not applying; winston going "hmm" & doing his own considering & researching & then maybe exclusively sharing the news w/taylor....but of course, maybe he's figured it out himself at some point before. i do think he'd figure it out himself though rather than anyone else directly suggesting it (maybe out here being diagnosed with "just the guy who sucks who we don't like / won't act right or normal" sort of usual experience) & i think, if he knows, he's not about to want ppl at work to know, b/c not as though anyone (but taylor & other quants) particularly seems to be impressed by his quanting proficiency, but he sure gets some validation/affirmation through that route (more re: that of course) and knows that ppl going "oh he's autistic so of course he's better at Doing Math / computer stuff as a like, mechanical efficiency sort of thing" or whatever. and the fact that taylor can interact with him / gives him some leeway to generally do his thing means he's kind of already got space to operate how he operates, see the start of this section....and idk. transitioning into the next section ig

just an Interpretation Of Canon thing here but, re: how these characters generally operate & what their reason is for being around doing stuff in the first place, i guess it's that winston does genuinely like to do & is interested in the math/coding stuff involved here, was also genuinely interested in working for taylor specifically (whatever The Hype specifically was), then you have taylor having the "despite your demeanor, your skills are superior" stance & appreciating what he can do & letting him do it by hiring him for real & all, & here we are, Q is for Quantitative, baby......he must find it rewarding enough to be getting to do this quanting stuff and also, the potential for validation when anyone recognizes he's good at it & by extension finds something about him good & wants him around to any degree

okay just that Episode By Episode stuff for a section here

3x03:

kinda extra room for interpretation b/c this was written as a one off character and reintroducing him in 3x09, written to be recurring, feels like it kinda offers a Soft Reboot for what we got here, where i guess how i take things is that we can suppose in both 3x03 & 3x09 winston's putting on a deliberate Performance to some degree based on what he thinks the potential employer wants to see, but it's also not completely fake / inaccurate either time, & like, maybe the 3x03 vibe wasn't a type of performance he'd only just ever put on for this axe cap interview, & even if it was deliberately bold maybe he was sort of thinking he Could bank on his value as a quant meaning he holds most of the cards (or can get away with acting like it)

building on that & as a More General point of interpretation again: think it's easy to suppose winston could've had an existence w/many elements of frustrations & disappointments & Rejection, but where like, he did figure out these areas of interest & proficiency that seemed to be a more positive force in his life, & leaned into them / focused on them further for it, & i could see him focusing on milestones / graduating from one thing to the next & conceptualizing like, well, if i just get to This point by working on This thing then i'll have it together & be able to move through existence more successfully, like, there's winston going into undergrad & kind of disappointed he's not having that good a time socially / feels like he's missing out / being left out still, but he can be like, well that's fine (: i'm totally fine abt it b/c i'm focusing on the Education & Experience here & when i'm entering the job market as an amazing quant anyone would want to hire then ppl will be seeing me in a positive light & things will fall into place / go great for me / i'll feel like i fit in & am doing things right within some structure. & i think maybe he Did have all those other job offers / opportunities & he was at least partly feeling a bit "objectively" confident, & also maybe just hoping he Could be that confident & that, you know, if he goes ahead & acts like that's the case, it could be confirmed / become true....anyways then obviously disillusionment time

since his outfits are introduced here: more "just how i'm interpreting canon" stuff in that i do just suppose he is mostly focusing on comfort & it'd kinda get in the way of things if he couldn't. flipflops might've been a statement piece but also i figure at least in part about the comfort / lack of much opportunity for restriction or ill fit or chafing texture or anything, same goes re: pants & shirts. interesting he likes to wear the patterned layers but doesn't really wear like, stripes or plaid ever. plus it could well be that Just A Tee is too informal unless you're the formalest of all by virtue of position, i.e. the ceo, but also we sure often enough see him wearing hoodies &/or multiple layers, like, maybe that's just for warmth or weight or what have you, always considering "what if it's about being self conchy as well (different way of saying self conscious)"

3x09:

so yeah with winston not having taken another job (at least maybe only like, temporary ones as these self contained gigs / just something to pay the bills) figure it's been a Depressive Period for him here lol & deliberately going on a journey of like self reflection / examination & going "haha yeah hated what i saw" is like, i don't think the self loathing is anything new, the confidence in 3x03 kind of an optimistic bandaid lol like well here's the new me as i understand / hypothesize / hope he could be, totally confident in being backed up by how valuable he is as a quant, then taylor kind of ripped that off and wound's open again but that wound was also not brand new or something he was unaware of / that didn't affect him before now

re: math meetup, i can see that being him presenting more evidence of his talent as a quant but also specifically going "see, i do this collaborative thing" to present this more conciliatory and cooperative approach to taylor, & am also taking it as evidence that he really does Enjoy math / coding stuff beyond it simply being a means to a professional end. i also like to think he has been / continues going to math meetup regularly, at least once a month, maybe every other week, and that it's this semi social event, like the relevant irl group you found back in the day that like, meets up for pizza before and drinks afterwards. i also like to think that, like, while he might come off as A Bit Much during said math meetup / just speak up frequently enough and often enough with some insistence lol, people Are there to meet up about the math and his contributions Are valued despite if his delivery/approach isn't always endearing or whatever. and even if he's not really popular / warmly embraced in the more [socializing event] bookends of the meetup, he's perfectly tolerated, and there's even a person or two or three (also regular attendees) who do vibe with him enough to like, invite / even want him to sit with them / talk with them outside that Math Setting. math meetup pals, maybe he doesn't meet up with these people outside these events but maybe they have each other's contacts and sometimes text. not these intimate personal relationships, but still something real and positive and refreshing. it'd be nice if math meetup could kinda be like what he hoped for from quanting, this way his math lets him "qualify" to access this group / activity, his aptitude "making up for" perceived lack of interpersonal / social charm & charisma & what have you, & having some reliably friendly people around even if of course that's not on its own going to mean he's totally socially fulfilled / not often lonely or anything. hc: he's often lonely & not totally socially fulfilled

he does, of course, want to work for taylor specifically, as long as they want him to, and this is sort of his second chance to find validation through working as a quant lol. think that yeah sure winston likes validation in general, who doesn't but also of course he's maybe a bit Above Average sensitive to / keen on it, but he'll also care about Affirmation if it's coming from people whose opinion he particularly values. think that it's easy to suppose he's also especially sensitive to taylor's assessments here thanks to the fact they really hit a (raw) nerve with him like, sure is the potential to get caught up in feedback loop city & say, have a few months mired in self loathing & an especial lack of certainty & confidence, if someone's kinda gone "i hate your self hatred" lol, but he also Did have this especial interest in / high opinion of taylor before that 3x03 interview, & so that's what continues to be part of it here

but then also interpreting that second 3x09 scene as like, he Does independently Know His Value as a quant and yknow not only has his pride but also can't and isn't going to first and foremost focus on trying to socially perform being peak Accommodating and Appealing here lol. but he still cares about what taylor thinks, wants to work for/with them, and i think it was Mutually Appreciated in the last scene that there was Mutual Effort to cooperate w/the other, giving him a Cue instead of just being mad & obfuscating it unless & until giving up on him completely or w/e is Constructive. interpreting winston as someone who sure can be a bit petty on purpose, especially in the face of some wounded pride (where he seems to take pride in his quant abilities & maybe not much of anything else: see the self loathing otherwise), but isn't really one to be deliberately antagonistic, especially not towards, yknow, the person he specifically wants to appeal to, but he also knows he can come off as grating whether inadvertently or not, so he might be testing the waters a little as well

3x11

he's using headphones even though no one else is in the room, that's a preference / he may also just like to block out other sound in general, as there's no audio of [winston's music faintly playing as / before he takes off his headphones] or indication he paused anything. does he like metal, what with the yngwie malmsteen reference? maybe, but that might just be a Billions Reference thing that isn't meant to indicate much / anything abt the specific character. i don't have any hcs about it anyways besides "okay" if so

first time we see his watch, it's not the calculator watch until s5 but i am a fan of said calc watch....gotta suppose it could represent him being here for the math of it all, what with how fancy/expensive watches are kinda the whole like status / power play thing, and a calculator watch is, afaik, not expensive, these casio calculator watch listings i'm seeing are all priced like, $15 to $25 range. so.

2nd scene is the first time we see sleeves pushed up, a frequent choice, maybe if he's focusing sleeves against forearms / Wrists & Hands can be bothersome. also not the first time he puts his hands in his pockets but i think that's a deliberate choice for winston's sort of Default Pose, equate it to the choice to have jared hang / hold on to his backpack straps.

guess he can also be a bit petty / rude / grating on purpose if ppl are getting in the way of his mathing / coding or otherwise thwarting it, at least probably taylor can relate / sympathize what with them wanting to Get It Right / being bothered if people get it wrong but could've avoided this

noticing all the caffeine and the fact he maybe didn't leave the basement / was powering through that project All At Once....just noting that down as a potential Approach, wanting to not interrupt focus &/or bear down & keep a fairly intense pace until it's finished / stay in the zone or what have you

definitely doing some deliberately cocky Testing / pushing back / amicable power struggle with taylor there, confirming he does have leverage due to that quanting ability after all, Despite His Demeanor / not being "sweet"

by this point definitely consciously kinda wants taylor to rail him.

4x03

i have no concrete hc's of instances inspiring winston to think he's "always seeing the future" but god i wish he did. he's right a lot though, maybe he just notices as much lol

talking mostly to taylor here, then concluding with "i only thought it but didn't say it; doesn't count....damnit." like he wants Their validation thanks, even if recognizing his Win here still wouldn't help them either way....also first time we see him w/coworkers for real, he's really freely Interacting.....time to go ahead and say he'd like to be work friends / at least have friendly interactions at work, might be a bit desperate for such positive social interactions, especially in this environment where he thinks the "objectively" good thing about him is most relevant, but it's cringe & fail (&/or vulnerable to Attack) to outright Want something, like validation / affirmation / a positive response or a simple "yeah you're right" "positive" response

first Space Shirt, followed by ones that are like, also &/Or Sci Fi Shirts. does he like space? i guess so

he's autistic

4x08

here & in 4x11, we don't know how he's gotten this info about taylor re: the arc w/their dad or with axe cap, but he's apparently mused on it on his own like this & isn't just quoting what someone else told him about how taylor must feel about xyz & how that might apply to the situations at hand, even though (unless he cassandra'd it) he wouldn't've had that much cause to suppose it'd definitely be relevant to have ideas about how taylor feels / is navigating a situation & why, maybe he just likes to be prepared like that / stay in the loop but yknow, maybe he's just also interested in them as a person beyond what's most immediately relevant to him doing quant stuff for them

he's already done the sort of kicking himself / wincing / apologizing or agreeing he fucked up an exchange thing before but, the genuine disappointment / momentary discouragement in it always lol....self loathing guy

love how he has these little like, clarifying explanations of things. "total control of the instrument," "always seeing the future," "because i win".....he's out here wanting to communicate to connect & to be understood, not so much as a potential for a power play / status climb and thus a conflict.....can see ppl who are used to / Do see interactions in that light to interpret winston yelling about having won as a like, rubbing it in people's faces show of superiority thing, but pretty sure he's just excited and wants a high five

4x11

having talked about the fact none of the desks in the tmc hq main floor seem to be winston's (& knowing that Could just be wroland not being reliably available to be in the bg of shots lol, analyzing s4 shots for some Consistently Empty desk) but it is fun to also consider that maybe tmc Could've had a secret extension in that that quant haunt in the basement was kept. a little more furnishing and it could be pretty chill, even though the lack of windows might not always be ideal. where's he sit!

also the whole "guy who'd be the first one smothered" moment like, guess i could've mentioned it in 3x03 more but yeah my Headcanon here is that winston maybe has a master's degree, not a phd though (him saying "50 phds" in 3x11 i think was meant to differentiate from him on both points, aka he's 1 guy, without a phd) & this is his first "real" job in any field. b/c i'm guessing like, people are here to get Paid, but as mentioned w/the watch (& just how winston acts in general, he doesn't really seem like he's raring to show off / really take advantage of having money or anything) it doesn't seem like he's, like, the "exceptionally focusing on personally making as much as possible" guy, and lauren's remark seems to emphasize / place the context on winston just not having like, savings from prior salaried years at a job or anything, more of a practical matter, maybe he's out here hoping for some more financial security, also they are all living in nyc, so. on that note, maybe he has an okay apartment but like, not without problems / not absolutely ideal, but it's okay. this would just be Convenient as an hc also lol

don't think the monologue was completely memorized, but it wasn't completely off the cuff either, he'd maybe been brainstorming scripts in his head / had some particular parts solidified word for word, but also hardly think he was guaranteed planning to deliver an admonishlogue at all, seems like it was some important factors that he was just kind of already irritated, nobody was listening / people Were social pressuring him to drop it or not interested in entertaining like "yeah i think you should talk to taylor about it" at all, think it was clear that talking to others was only going to lead to them telling him to drop it / trying to not have anyone say anything to taylor, and then that taylor just jumped in, which i hardly think he was hoping for

always Something that we can expressly see winston moving to sit down in that soon to be empty meeting room as everyone else is clearly filing out lol, like, can see how he might not be able to go "well, back to work" immediately and need some irritation / feeling like shit / guess who just got yeeellllllllllled aaaaaat to burn off, might need some time to absorb "well i guess i just deferred so no bonus as was probably expected," but can also suppose that maybe when winston gets majorly Shut Down he has shutdowns. saying all of four words in the wake of things, otherwise the fact he has this approach of tensing up, not talking at all, kind of just holding onto eye contact as his last way of "properly" participating in the exchange w/o bailing entirely, while also outwardly withering, like clearly these kinds of moments are pretty significantly affecting....feels like he could find it difficult to talk much, or at all, in the wake of some / need some time to recuperate a bit & have some distance & quiet & not just jump back into work like he's having a fine and normal time. sometimes pondering like, not only those notions like taylor insisting winston not be Interrupted when he hasn't technically started talking yet (giving him the buffering / latency time) but also like, fun kinda imagining them sitting across from each other having a texting conversation....or times winston would rather have an exchange via email......or make use of the sticky notes......or just have taylor talking to him and picking up on his nonverbal responses

winston's very Not present in tmc meetups / get togethers this season & again we know that this could be because his actor wasn't very available but it's still the case In Canon that there's only so many tmcers and they're all seeing each other outside work / market hours for varyingly formal or informal purposes & he's never included. & simultaneously hold the hc's that he could be choosing not to go or he could just never be invited in the first place l o l.....in either of these situations the reason for declining to go or being excluded could be up to "b/c other ppl don't like having him around" and idk, best case scenario is he doesn't want to go for some other reason, but he acts pretty okay with the All Hands meetups we do see / when in meetings with the other named employees he's pretty raring to interact with them, so :/

4x12

i do like to think it's fun to imagine What If Taylor Had A Phonecall With Winston Before This Monologue; someone once told me that explaining is an admission of failure, i'm sure you remember, i was on the phone with you, sweetheart.....just them both having a more sympathetic approach with each other and a sort of dialed back reconciliation, tbt 3x09, without an audience / roomful of other people

do think that his wearing a tmc logo tee into axe cap hq was a deliberate Statement Piece, like wearing flipflops into axe cap in his true first time being there lol

first time we see the backpack, & the headphones (in this season), like the point you (nothingunrealistic) made about the backpack possibly kind of exerting pressure / compression in a Sensory Way. let's see it again

as good a time as any to bring up how it's such a consistent pattern that it Must be a choice that winston smiles in this direction :/ and grimaces / winces / frowns this way :\ but a choice of the actor of course, was it ever a conscious thing on winston's end, would not put it beyond the realm of possibility he's ever consciously thought of stuff like "even if words fail me(tm) i Gotta hang on to eye contact".....i'm thinking of times he is smiling hard enough that you just gotta do it more symmetrically, like here in 4x12

5x01

he likes bagels

think that this could've been another case of "people who are used to interactions used for conflict / power plays / stepping on other people to status climb (axe cappers in general, maybe team ben having to be extra prone to be on the lookout for these strategies when they're more often on the receiving end of them) misinterpreting winston socializing as means of connection (wanting to talk about the common work thread / interest with coworkers)"

even if for some reason quants were cold shouldering axe cappers like, a sound strategy even if team ben are worthy exceptions. Winston Can Get Petty When People Blame Quants Talking About Being Quants For Axe Cappers Harassing Tmc & also when in the process of doing so everyone's like "also you're smarter than us but no you're not, any math quants could do fundamental analysts could do better" like, winston getting more deliberately antagonistic when ppl are going after his Math Aptitude / value as a quant when that's his "objective" point of pride & confidence & possibly like haha self loathing can't get me here

5x02

winston's decimal points being more precise here i think indicates that the show is not taking the stance of "yeah the quants are just any old analysts with an attitude of superiority" lol

do think he selected that particular seating placement b/c it's like, hey furthest away from axe cap, most aligned with taylor's desk & angled towards it, perfect.....what a letdown

guess this episode suggests he and mafee have chats sometimes, and winston maybe confides At All Sensitive Info w/the guy? bold

always just smh like well thank god we were given this subplot where winston was a plot device really for dollar bill's arc or whatever............what a gift

5x03

just noticing as always how winston is the one person saying they should go for it vs the other two's skepticism / trepidation, and taylor decides to go for it.....they do value his input / trust his judgment

i am also noticing how often winston, as the math guy who doesn't really fit in w/ the whole axe / caply approach & style, has this role in giving taylor these crucial opportunities to pursue their own direction rather than be mired down in the misery of axe cap determining everything....3x11 & his algorithm letting them break completely away from axe cap, 4x11 & his admonishlogue making some Points & then next episode taylor does decide to abandon the revenge jag & says they were wrong & they're sorry....5x03 & this nlp strategy plotline being the first thing taylor could actively pursue for tmc after 2 eps of being dragged painfully through axe cap nonsense, & the fact this, in the next episode, leads to the Impact Fund idea / mase carb

5x04

see that last point

5x05

guess that until confirmed, The Glances being significant is a Headcanon Interpretation lol. anyways i do like taylor giving him these discreet, nonverbal cues as a very deliberate method of communication titrated betwixt them

oh right and an Age Cue here, before that was nailed down i think i already hc'd winston as either the same age as, or a year older than taylor, and that's still true lol, think that's how it goes with the timelines (taylor's being kinda uncertain, and winston's as well, having prior just kinda gone "well if taylor's 22 when they show up as the typical post undergrad age, and each season spans approx a year, and maybe winston spent just a year or two post undergrad getting a master's b/c nothing nails down how long it would take & he could've kinda been ahead of the curve as it were, he could be, say, 23 thru 25 in s3 when he shows up, to taylor's Maybe 23" as the Idea)

just wants to work for taylor as long as they'll have him, but would also like to be openly valued / affirmed on a pretty basic level lol...

one of those matters that's like, i do think that this is what the material is Trying to convey but it's not concrete / explicit, in that i think winston somewhat Likes rian right off lol like. i mean he's also still annoyed on principle, this is maybe his replacement & that stings that it's even a possibility & of course he has reason to want to feel like "oh well this person Clearly sucks" lol, but then there he is trying to scope out the situation & get immediate intel & it's like, here's this fellow 20something you immediately think is pretty (the mental comparison to an A lister as a dunk, lmao) & you see her being perfectly friendly with your nice coworker you're also friendly enough with, that's one degree of separation, now here he comes talking about how cool & epic & smart & capable she is, again makes sense he's still first & foremost bothered by the situation & has cause to just be more jealous about how well everyone immediately thinks of her (see: winston making bad first impressions that may never be undone, the fact other coworkers were probably never going around openly impressed with / praising him after meeting him for 5 sec, or like, ever) but i suppose this immediate underlying sense of attraction / affinity hits in that First Sighting as well

love that we see the feet up on the desk show of confidence again, very funny & glad it's back.....a tool in his arsenal for when he's Very Bothered But (unsuccessfully) Acting Very Unbothered / when he's trying to pitch for his employment lol

when did he have a first gf? perfect time for an hc.....feels like it'd have been like, idk, older high schoolers at the youngest, that kind of emotional commentary....or in college. sometimes pondering the idea like, what if he had a bf first actually.....or not, & Feeling A Way around other guys sometimes like, hmm guess i think this guy is pretty cool &/or i'm kinda like "god i wish that were me" about, then some more noticeable Tension as he's older even if he can't really discern the reason b/c this person's pretty nice & cool actually, hmm. then one day you're doing hw together with a while for code to compile & Oh Hey Lol

meanwhile think clearly rian defuses the Reason For Rivalry (and also clearly immediately likes him / interacting with him & you know, outright sticks up for him & in this significant way) & then when they connect over Math it's all coming together very outright like Oh Hey Lol 😳

also he Gets Right Back To Work easily enough, & like, i think already there's a deliberate performance of "i'm now totally unbothered," but he's just pretty good at shaking things off apparently. & he kind of has to be, to not bail completely or else tamp down his own personality / avoid interactions, but you know. plus that like, he may get irritated when his pride's wounded but around here people can have a whole crisis & arc about it if their egos are bruised in the slightest, so like. pretty blasé

5x06

this isn't really any hc or Interpretation by any stretch but this is the first time we've seen winston pull that particular attitude in that second scene with rian and it's beautiful.....if something's bothering him he's so often like outright indignant but this is like, i'm Bothered but i'm being so dignant about it, for like 4 sec

also the bright green hoodie / bright, high contrast, geometric blockbuster tee is so Vivid but like, always noting how he wears relatively colorful outfits. fun to go "maybe this one's deliberately extra eye catching b/c of this new crush" lol

5x07

the difficulty in reading that much into things when the lack of sobriety could be making any & everything an outlier, & can't even really read into "apparently down to take stimulants (beyond caffeine) on a dime" b/c well, so is everyone else, so that this situation can unfold, we knew he had a crush on rian (or i guess we didn't, but this is pretty direct about it), we knew he likes validation, taylor Knows him well enough that it's not just like "oh he's acting weird? well that's winston for you" to them, which we also knew but it's fun to confirm further lol

and now for some more free floating / general concepts

family? i have no idea. feel like he either has no siblings or several but yknow, anything's possible. we know what he's like Now, don't think he got that solid self esteem / self confidence as an emergent quality from [everything that happened to him before 3x03] & don't suppose he has this like, rock solid close warm familial relationship of understanding & unconditional love & support w/whoever he grew up with, parents or siblings or whoever he lived with....like, the relationship/s could be Fine but you know, still not all that close

i don't think he was every completely friendless (or if he was, it didn't last Too long) in terms of like, throughout school maybe he had some pals, no amazing close [fingers crossed Like That] ones where someone had like, grown up as his next door bestie and they did everything together & knew everything about each other, nothing all that close, but he had people to sit with at lunch or what have you, even if at times like, the table nobody else really sits at but the people who don't have anywhere else to sit lmao. maybe some slightly closer friendships here & there, but people often kind of got subsumed into other friend groups that he wasn't otherwise a part of / otherwise just kind of gradually distanced again...but also possible he had perfectly amicable occasions of like, maybe only having a class or two with certain people, not striking up intimate friendships but hitting it off well enough.........like, winston's out here Not having been stomped down into suppressing his personality all the time, he's still fairly earnest & forthcoming & eager to connect, just sort of vaguely going for "he maybe have always had this element of discouragement & disappointment re: socializing / connecting / forming relationships / sometimes just being accepted on a basic level, but he also didn't have his spirit totally extinguished either" although there's also the room for stuff like, yknow, him Holding Out Hope like "well nobody likes me now / i'm unhappy but maybe once i'm in college [gets to college & still isn't having a great time] okay well once i Enter The Workforce" lol. you know

but it's also like, hardly think he's Only Just Now experiencing the [winston: ___ everyone: get his ass] type stuff & pushback & punishment & disdain over not really doing anything but people hate his style & vibe, & feel like there's also still room for like, yep wow got burned sometimes / having had some pretty negative experiences......we do have to end up in this place where, you know, 3x03 happens and he doesn't just go "guess finance isn't for me!" & dust himself off & go get some Guarantees from some tech firms, & instead he's Really Glad [Taylor] Called & hasn't taken some other more desired job between 3x03 & that call & is immediately like "good news: i do hate myself" so like, can't see him having just thrived his way to this point....evidently not all dating relationships have been just epic highs & victories, maybe he has those math meetup pals now & maybe idk there's other people he's in sort of in contact with, maybe people from college / grad school or the like, still not that close, figure he's generally been lonely like, overall, despite regularly enough seeking out / striving for connections

oh yeah speaking of, the idea that he has a cat maybe lol, in part simply for company, a little guy that lives in your house / apartment....but also maybe he doesn't

always just some general notions like, also idk maybe he engages in hobbies, talks to people through that just like with math meetup....talked about the Embroidery idea, got that computers/programming connection, was thinking like, idk fuck it amateur photography, develop your own film, maybe he took a class in college or high school or something, same with like, maybe he plays a musical instrument, said "the cello, why not" about that as an early [shrug] idea lol. he does like space, maybe he does Anything with that....rip to any astronomy clubs In Nyc like, guess you're not seeing shit, but. 4x11 au, after deferring his bonus he goes to some cool cinematographic celestial occasion like taylor & the sea glass fish carousel lmao. taylor catches up & they have their [i'm sure you remember, i was on the phone with you, sweetheart] exchange lol.....except also not, b/c you wouldn't really want to have Parallels with m/any moments ft. wendy & taylor :/

recalled like a particularly casual / throwaway idea about like "lol what if he was somewhat thalassophobic" in part b/c once actor william dropped that lore abt himself in an interview, but. could have somewhat some other phobia/s. or not really any! what a world

maybe sometimes he's out here like, single & ready to Fuck like, focusing on just hooking up w/people sometimes rather than really looking to date at the juncture, although it could both be true like, he'd Like to be dating but also doesn't really currently want to do all the Putting Himself Out There & such of seeking it out / trying to consciously navigate it, but sometimes it's more manageable like, just wanting to have sex. looking out for himself when he can & how he can lol

speaking of, some vague sexy hcs

gets pegged

especial fan of Tongue Against Tongue texture, enjoys some Grounding elements to avoid being overwhelmed / narrow things to the more relevant sensory input at hand, like the weight/pressure of a partner leaning / lying against him / holding him tightly, if he's overwhelmed in a good way / kinda got some sensory overflow in a good way he might cry during sex In A Good Way lol, took some time maybe in his Personal Sexual Experience to figure out some general differences in "what he doesn't like at all" or "what's off the table / too unpleasant for him at some times but Not necessarily at all times & might be completely enjoyable sometimes," like, am i willing to perform oral sex, am i willing & Enthusiastically so, is that way too much actually, it can be all of them at varying times....maybe in more everyday general situations he refrains from stims in front of others unless stressed enough, but while having sex with someone especially if at all nervous it's like, there can be this transition between repressing stims & being more unfiltered / uninhibited where they kind of build up & then come through in kicks only to be reined back in, either like, he simply does go for a more reined in approach the whole time or anyone else is willing to ride this out with him / he kind of has the time & space to figure out more of a flow, in which case he might still stim but you know, not as though people aren't used to stims in this situation, i.e. reacting to stimulation with movement & vocalization is at least expected & it could once again be like "well he's a bit weird with it but hey" lol or you know, not that some partners can't be understanding or have had experience w/similar partners. hardly make or break but this can be a vulnerable interaction here / hard to shake the self consciousness & sense of "i Do have to filter myself and act The Right Way" all at once just b/c you'd want to

hey and let him sing karaoke or something lmao, winston is as Dramatic as he is, he would give a performance. work in a way to let everyone who sings sing around lol, could throw in some Affectations so that it's like yeah winston can sing without having to be like "wow winston, when'd you become a trained broadway performer" lmao. imagine. which reminds me of the time will joked about like, oh yeah winston Gets That A Lot re: people recognizing he looks like the guy in deh, aka will roland....the limitations of "this is set in real nyc" including occasional references to recent / popular shows, fuck it maybe will roland does also exist in the billions universe. well anyways it would be fun. the karaoke anyways, and that he'd give a top tier Performance whether or not people are first and foremost enjoying his technical / artistic skill at the art of singing, it'd at least be personality infused and engaging

taking it way back to the ideas about winston's social misadventures in general, i'm sometimes considering for fics i never end up writing if he might have some like, misgivings / anxieties about like, is this person i Like acting like they maybe Like me back as some kind of elaborate joke, & maybe the caution comes from experience like you know, classic over the line "pranks" like asked out As A Joke, kissed As A Dare that he wasn't aware of, think there could be like, would be Friendship / friendly acquaintanceship experiences in there where such "pranks" / "jokes" / "messing with him" (and not in a good way) could happen, or even just you know, more Spontaneously, don't even know this person & he's treated as a joke for other ppl's entertainment, realizing at the time or retrospectively like oh maybe i was more being bullied then having any positive social interaction / getting to feel at least "included" or what have you, like, the idea of getting to hang out with a group as The Funny Guy, but he's had these experiences getting to hang out with a group & realize it's b/c they thought he was funny / Amusing in a laughing At him, not with him way, which is easy also b/c winston isn't really out here trying to be funny that we've seen lol. only realizing he was still being excluded after some time / distance from the situation, or escalating open hostility / just more blatant meanness / over the line shit from some people, maybe some stuff that just immediately feels shitty but he figured was just like, well idk, maybe that's normal & still friendly, maybe it also felt more outright embarrassing / demeaning at the time but it's like haha yeah you got me :'] at the time just to save any face lol.....possible unexpected / spontaneous amicability in his socializing history, but also shittiness, whether it's coming at him all at once or he's kind of holding out hope like, well, i just keep at it / have a Friendly attitude here and surely i'll make friends b/c if people didn't like me At All why are they talking to me / letting me be here at all.....

always kind of pondering Fashion Variation, we haven't seen it but it could be possible, musing on "what would he think Looks Good On Him / how does he feel capable of like, dressing for romantic success or what have you lol" like, was the vivid 5x06 outfit anything, cue the drawing like, a bralette & short shorts is shaking it up and could be a Felt Cute outfit and could also be comfortable enough....not always That much room in men's(tm) fashion before you start having to be aware of [Gender] and dunno that winston out here has had the inspiration / motivation / opportunity to consider / try out / explore but hey. what are we here for

just remembered that post like "uhh i just saw a guy crying in the library & then his phone alarm went off & he stopped crying, opened his laptop & started typing / it's called time management" lmao like winston's not out here having the Most amazing time, he could have such Time Management experiences of like, letting it out some on purpose but then reining it right back in, and/or just like some spontaneous paroxysms of crying for a minute or two more unexpectedly in a "do you ever [experience a tiny inconvenience] & realize the thread by which you're hanging on is quite thin" way or otherwise, you know, oops experienced this frustration & now i'm crying over it, or idk, just feeling a bit more vulnerable for whatever reason & something has unexpectedly plucked some emotional string attached to another string attached to another & the resonance = i'm crying now ig. he can't be Thriving out here & i don't think he's all about having such a stranglehold on emotions that he's like oh tf i Never cry (aside from having sex, in a good way)

although speaking of like, emotional repression, maybe he's out here just "good at" compartmentalizing some experiences lol in that "well anyways, back to work" way & stuff like, sure he knew he was risking it in 4x11 but it also did not seem to affect his dynamic with mafee at all lmao like wow.....

think that him not really having anything on his work desk is a choice / preference but also am not sure that that really applies to anything else lmao. what if he had a little plant. that'd be funny

oh yeah and the idea that winston might literally have like prophetic dreams & they're just kind of a nuisance to him but sometimes they can be plot devices in fics (that don't exist) about him kissing people

well i'm just calling it a night there lol but like, it always feels Lacking writing out hc's like, plenty of ideas but also hardly any, and yet the fact that other individual ideas are so Vague / casual that it wouldn't be like "oh i gotta share this via post or manifesting it some other way" so then it feels like, oh no, if i don't list absolutely Everything on something that's specifically a list of hc's, i can never talk about whatever gets left out......and just that like, i ought to have a bunch of really specific, concrete, unique Factoids about winston here to be of any interest but hey lmao. that hypothetical set of concepts is never gonna happen, & the Ultimate Comprehensive List Of Everything I've Ever Pondered Re: Winston is also going to be difficult lmfao (not as though that's what you've asked in the first place) but you know, we took a swing at things here & covered some ground & the thinking about & talking about winston never ends, & this isn't really a post meant to have broad appeal / if you're not already having fun reading vague musings about the quant then i'm sorry you're reading this after having read all that and gone "wow, i'm disappointed" lmao but hey, weird choices made to bring you to this point......also god knows plenty of hcs are more filed away under specific like [Tayston], [Benston], [Riawin] sort of things (lol, [Mafon]) b/c on the one hand, i find it easier to kind of think in Scenarios and the details particular to the "scenes" therein, but i am also not good at thinking of those scenarios! out here operating on vibes, he's autistic and wants to kiss taylor (also now rian but that's kinda right in canon, not just my head) and that's really the crucial info here

[stranger-who-writes-fiction]

Still a few weeks out from issue 4 of Supergirl: Woman of Tomorrow and DC’s solicit schedule is exceedingly wonky so WHO KNOWS when those will drop...THUS. A tiny bit of art appreciation, to tide us (read: me) over. XD

Potentially (?) spoiler-y art tease below!

FIRST UP, issue 4 variant by Rose Besch! The September solicits had a bunch of variant covers listed without previews, so I think this only started showing up in the last few weeks? Regardless, check it ouuuuuttttt:

First of all: So sparkly. :D

Second, MMMMM, look at that CMY(sans K) color palette! I also think the artist’s style of coloring is just very neat--like, refracted light through a prism, if that makes sense? Very geometric. And of course, always dig a cool, shojo manga-esque look for Supergirl. I think, of the variants released thus far, this one and the Amy Reeder cover are my favorite. 

The other little bit of art comes courtesy of Evely, who is back to posting in-progress snippets. As always, I recommend following her and colorist Mat Lopes on their various social media sites because 1.) they are both INCREDIBLY TALENTED and post that Good Good art and 2.) you get to see stuff LIKE THIS:

HNNNNNNGGGGG.

I will go through my usual happy art shouting: HAIR! FACE! BODY LANGUAGE!!!!!!

This is the potentially spoiler-y bit, though without text/additional panels for context, there’s not much it’s actually spoiling? Still. Just want to be extra careful.

I continue to be so completely, utterly thrilled to have eight--EIGHT--issues of Evely’s Supergirl. I mean. Just look at that. Beautiful.

Can’t wait to see the whole page, and Lopes’ colors. Aaaah. S’gonna be GOOD.

Another quick social media account recommendation: Evely’s represented by Felix Comic Art. Even if you aren’t an original art collector, the site usually has decent scans of the original black and white pages. (Watermarked, natch.) But it’s so neat getting to see the original art vs. the colored pages.

And, okay, on that subject of inks vs. colors, I had not originally planned on including this but HERE WE GO, MORE ART, BECAUSE I CAN ALWAYS RAMBLE ABOUT ART.

This time, from Lopes’ twitter; he shared the colors for this page from issue 3, and then later posted Evely’s initial inks: 

It’s maybe a little hard to tell, scrolling, but when you check these out on Lopes’ twitter, and toggle back and forth, you can actually see that the colors ever so slightly soften Kara’s expression. 

Which I find FASCINATING, because it really illustrates the wild game of telephone that is comics creation.

You’ve got the writer and the editor, who work sort of in tandem to figure out how best to tell the story that the writer has in mind. That then goes to the penciller, who puts their own spin on the script, then it goes to the inker who has to interpret the penciller’s lines and choose what lines to keep and how best to highlight them (though, in this case, Evely is inking her own stuff so there’s less chance for any drastic changes between these phases) and then FINALLY (at least on the art side of things) it goes to the colorist who adds a whole NEW layer (literally and figuratively) to the art by selecting palettes and color holds and so on and so forth.

In fact, I was just reading the coda in the most recent Fire Power issue, (a comic by Robert Kirkman--of The Walking Dead fame--Chris Samnee, and Matt Wilson) and Samnee said he’d imagined a particular scene taking place at night, but got the colors back from Wilson, who had set the action early in the morning. Samnee drew the pages for a night palette, but Wilson totally made the morning lighting work, and Samnee felt the storytelling was better that way, as it made the time-skip more apparent. (The previous scene also took place at night, which would’ve been confusing for readers, had they both been set at night.)

ALL OF THIS TO SAY! You have multiple storytellers working on any given book, and here, specifically, I think it’s very cool that Lopes choices enhanced the acting that Evely already put on the page. 

(Though, disclaimer: it occurs to me that this is entirely subjective, and some folks might feel that there WASN’T any discernable change between inks and colors. *Shrug* ARRRTTT!!!!)

Caught a Felix Comic Art stream a few weeks back when he unboxed the art for these issues, and someone in the chat mentioned wanting an Artist Edition for Evely.

And may I just say: Yes.

Like. I don’t think it’ll happen, but I really wish this book would get the usual King trade treatment--a special edition hardcover with a bunch of backmatter, so that we can just DRINK IN THE ARTWORK.

(Would also love to see the script for any of the issues! They did that with Strange Adventures and much like seeing inks vs. colors, it’s always cool to see script to pencils.)

Actually, what I’d really love is an unlettered version of an issue, to highlight Lopes’ colors in particular. 

Don’t get me wrong, I think Clayton Cowles is doing a great job on letters, but this is a very wordy book! And sometimes you just wanna push those caption boxes and word balloons aside and see the entire panel, free of text. XD

Sadly, as I said, this probably won’t get too many bells and whistles in the trade release. Maybe a little bit of Evely’s design work? Hopefully?

She actually posted her initial sketches of Kara, a while back! I think they should be on her IG somewhere? 

Anyways. I would kill for a large format of ANYTHING by Evely. Seriously, just. Do it DC! Take my money! (Or, IDW? Who handles the oversized editions for DC? ...I think it’s IDW. Either way! Do it! Come on! XD)

(Again, someone in that same art unboxing chat mentioned they don’t really do large format editions for contemporary artists, BUT. They totally released a Samnee Daredevil book! That’s pretty contemporary! Or, it was. At the time of release.)

Okay, I will stop now. For real.  

That’s it, I think, in terms of art teases and updates! Until solicits and/or preview art, I guess!

[bellamygateoldblog]

i will never be over the way this show has continuously tried to frame bellamy and clarke as heroes and good people, or the way the fandom has almost completely embraced and supported that narrative

the amount of times i’ve read “[clarke] saved everyone’s ungrateful asses” makes me seriously consider turning evil. like aren’t y’all bored? don’t you have a different sentence you would like to say for a change?

i want to talk about this but i probably don’t remember a lot of the details of this show so if im forgetting something or get something wrong i apologise, but i never have any desire to rewatch past s2.

clarke isn't even the hero of her own side, she took power of them using the military force of the grounders, someone else’s people, she’s forced them into alliances without their knowledge that weren’t in their best interest (while she literally had no idea what they were even going through because she’d abandoned them after upsetting their entire political structure, and this leader she’s bowing to is responsible for the slaughter of their children, has broken an alliance previously with them, has hung the threat of genocide over their heads, and who isn’t even wanted in power by her own people- dragging skaikru into that conflict, too), she’s sacrificed them and what’s best for them in order to cater to/concentrate on the grounders newest demands or pursue her own personal mission, she’s lied to and patronised them, she’s abandoned them and surrendered them to die while they were under her protection and responsibility, and in Book 2 (and these aren’t her people but in canon she’s their leader anyway apparently despite trying to blow them all up a few days before...) she’s abandoned them again, and is speaking for them without consent or any connection to what’s happening with them again,.........her inner circle/her ‘friends’ have to be extremely careful to remain important to her or on her team or they’ll be sacrificed, harmed or become acceptable losses to whatever her newest goal is too (but hey at least she says she cares about them) all while acting very ‘woe is me’ about the whole crushing weight of responsibility she shouldn’t have.

but she’s the hero, she’s beloved, she’s special, she has relationships that were never built, she and only she saved everyone again and has all the lines telling us so no matter how dishonest those statements are.

like this is where i personally see what you said in your ask most: when it concerns clarke.

bellamy on the other hand...i don’t place him at all on the same level as clarke when it comes to this. clarke has privilege that bellamy just never had as a character. and i think that does probably play into why i like him.

him being a hero to the delinquents/the 48 is completely believable to me. he was the original leader, he got them through a tough time, he chose to put himself on the line for them, and he’s the one who stayed. i also think it’s reasonable that fandom might romanticise him this way because he is one who has been shown to value the one life as well as the many of his people, a guy doing his best and making big mistakes along the way, a mixed complex bag of good and bad, i find him very likable and i love the toxic/pained/vulnerable ones lol but more than anything i find him to be one of the more interesting/entertaining characters on the show (Book 1).

we also see him torment himself with his own mistakes instead of just having other people do it for him/remind him like we see happen with clarke- and we all know fandom loves equating that with a “redemption arc” and as much as i personally dislike seeing pity parties i do like self-awareness and responsibility in characters that goes beyond a 3-second-long puppy dog look or straight dismissal of someone else’s pain, and for the most part bellamy’s expressions of this don’t come across as demanding sympathy from others but from genuine self-loathing and an honesty to himself, internalising the effects of his actions/childhood.

i know i personally prefer The Flawed Protector over The Tortured Saviour nobody asked for (same white male hypocritical moral hero in a woman’s body).

i don’t believe in assigning “hero” to any of them though like that’s the whole entire point of the show lol “there are no good guys.” and i also think a major chunk of fandom/shippers have warped bellamy’s character so much that it isn’t even him anymore, so this man they’re celebrating as a hero/good person isn’t even bellamy sometimes.

all of the genuinely “good” and kind people are dead.

i don't think i'd say bellamy was ever framed as a hero. like he was just never important enough to be, he’s just not put into those positions (despite being the male lead), clarke is. as the protagonist ig. bellamy...he’s the protector/knight of the heroes, but not the actual hero himself (applies to octavia too i think, where she acts and he reacts).

like take mount weather, clarke becomes empowered by her “wanheda” status, bellamy’s (and monty’s) part in that is lost...clarke is “bearing it so they don’t have to” (rme) which simultaneously strips the other boys from claiming the ‘victory’ of saving the 48 while still leaving them with the guilt, like it suits how i see clarke perfectly that she’s the only one to refer to the genocide (and shutting down the CoL, i realised) as “i” while monty and bellamy say “we” and it was clarke’s actions that got them to that point in the first place, but this is one of those times she’s clearly The Protagonist. if that makes sense lol.

bellamy is on the opposite side to clarke in s3 and s7 and he needs to be moved to her side in order to be on the ‘right’ one. now i don’t agree with that one bit mind you (when it comes to s3, idc about s7 lol) and i didnt see it that way but imo that’s how the show wrote it, to the point he was either demonized endlessly by fandom or woobified in a way that denied him his own agency. during s5 i don’t i think anyone was framed in a good light. i can see this applying in s6, though- where he was his absolute worst self yet, betraying his own development, failing at every point to “do better” despite claiming it, but still was given that reasurring line that they did better and saved people and was in that “heroic” position i guess? but is that because he was back to being clarke’s “good little knight” tho? (but do we claim s6??? do we really??? do we claim it ladies???)

s6 was 100% dedicated to making clarke look good/like a 'good' or sympathetic person. the bodysnatching plot (and the s6 sheidheda plot because if it was supposed to be about bellamy and address his s5 actions he would’ve been present to experience/observe those consiquences himself but he wasn’t lmaoooo. instead it was to tell the audience ‘actually clarke was right last season and here’s another reason to feel bad for her and how those ungrateful bitches were treating her’) has no other purpose for existing. clarke's character has consistently been elevated at the expense of everyone else's. but im not sure the writing did a very good job convincing me she was a good person if it was trying to do that LMAO like my interpretation of her is so fitted to canon, and no amount of throwaway lines telling me how good she is did anything to change what i saw yk? and in s6, combined with being patronised by the writers, i found her to be at some of her most obnoxious.

i don’t agree with placing bellamy and clarke in the same boat tbh. like they just come from completely different places and come across differently, especially in the way they interact with other characters.

in my experience this fandom (on tumblr) is extremely skewed in favour of clarke, like ive never seen a fandom so obsessed with their protagonist. there’s A LOT of clarke stans who stan her for being one of those “deserves better :(” characters, selfless and heroic, and support that view that she’s the superior character, entitled to other character’s devotion, love and validation yet doesn’t have to reciprocate any of it. the CL/BC ship war was just a bunch of people fighting over clarke, who deserves her more, which character is more toxic to her, which other character would 100% be her bff supportive of that relationship, treating her as a passive whose actions don’t take affect. im not sure how much i blame the writing for that because if so many of us are capable of recieving her character in this way then...why aren’t so many other people? how is there such a massive disconnect between the ways we see her?

and imo a lot of the bellamy love in this fandom comes from shipping him with clarke too rather than being because of who he actually is.

[whyarewecalledtheshipname]

kh3, khux, recoded spoilers:

ramblings about unreality, the BoP, and the journal:

ngl i'm hella late to the party and i'm still not super familiar with what ideas and theories have been made regarding khux shit, unreality shit, etc. these are thoughts i had after rewatching recoded.

i know the maleficent/book scene isn't novel, but i wanna ramble about it anyway.

a question i had when listening to some khux talk: is it agreed that MoM made unreality? bc we know he hid there, right. idk how or since when, i'm guessing it's where he originally disappeared to.

But what's our understanding of that scene in the khux finale, where MoM's telling Darkness about the fictional world, the world he couldn't even conceive? Where neither light or darkness rules?

i've only watched that scene a few times, and i'm not clear on whether MoM's talking about the fictional world as if it already exists, or something he's envisioning.

pff i can't even organize my thoughts lmao. So, my guess at this point is that MoM was envisioning/imagining this world where neither light or darkness rules (and where voices and eyes can't reach but idk what dictates THAT particular rule). By simply imagining/thinking of it, i don't think it resulted in that world becoming real. Cause i thought he said something about that idea having to be "realized", but rewatching that specific scene, he doesn’t. If anyone knows for sure if he ever mentioned something like this i’d appreciate confirmation. [EDIT: MoM does specify putting your imagining into realization in the fan translation, which is more direct/literal and often times more accurate than the official localization…🤷🏽‍♀️]

But—IF it's not enough to /just/ think of it, and you do have to literally put it into realization—. My interpretation of what that means is, you know, putting the idea into action. /Making/ it real. Manifesting it. And that can happen any number of ways. Namely, in this case, putting it on paper. In the Book.

THE BOOK, UGH. The recoded scene. I know it kinda basically confirms that the book can create worlds but again i wanna scream about it a little.

But first. So far, i have that idea. Now as for the actual sequence of events, mmm. My brain goes all over the place for that one. Bc before rewatching those scenes, the question took form of "what came first? the chicken or the egg?" bc an idea i had heard was that Verum Rex, the game, could be a documentation of what's going on in unreality. And i've been flip flopping on that.

for me it would depend on whether unreality as we see it was spawned (that's the word i use) as soon as MoM originally thought of it, and wrote it down. Bc then Verum Rex could be made in the image of that world. On the other hand, if Verum Rex is like, 'additional' realization of the /idea/, then that would mean the game came before (most/some of) the world. But i think the first option is more likely.

So MoM conceived the world --> MoM wrote about it in the Book --> the world became real --> SOMEONE made the world into a game

and that gets into my thoughts about who tf has access to unreality, at least to the extent that they can see into it and observe it, and how. and obv, square enix (in kh) made the game. and square enix is literally "the powers that be" so. kinda an obvious option. but anyway.

i covered my main points ig. so time to scream about how tf this even could happen and why. not that i have any actual answers bc how tf could a book make worlds.

recoded. GOD, RECODED. If i didn't already ramble about HOW the Book could make worlds then i'm about to.

idek where to start lmao. Maleficent. she brings up the book, after she and pete have been rescued/released from the datascape.

(And what IS the datascape exactly? WHAT does it encompass? is the datascape in recoded strictly the data made from the journal? like, could there be multiple datascapes based on different source materials, or based in different devices/computers? ????)

“Yes, considering legend has it the book can conjure, making an entire world filled with beings and powers that have yet to exist.”

So that's just there. We've seen this. So this is assuming we can take the legend as (probable) fact. I'm assuming the Book really /can/ make worlds.

this next part about fairy tales i'm including to like cover my bases and see if anyone has thoughts about it bc i have not thought too much about the concept of fairy tales in kh and what it could mean:

“Really? A book that can just make up a world? I don't know. That sounds like nothin' more than fluffy, pink, kids' fairy tale stuff. It just sounds too good to be true"

“Ah, but who’s to say a fairytale’s not true?”

So that's that about fairy tales. (omg cinderella, dreams coming true, true love's kiss, sleeping beauty, WHHHHH--)

“And I ask you, how does that differ from this world they call the ‘date escape’?”

THIS BITCH. (the quote not maleficent lol) I know that early theories and probably current one's still, suggested unreality/quadratum/other-shibuya were data worlds, or something akin to them. and i mean, yeah, i wondered too, bc of the glitchy stuff with sora’s heart station in the secret episode.

but also, like. this whole world manifested "outside" of kh's reality. like, is it even possible that it COULD be /just/ data? As in, could data just exist on it's own like that? (or is there more? if the part of unreality we see /is/ data, is it only the data aspect of a bigger whole? i've seen a theory talk about this, is why i even bring it up)

If what we see of unreality so far is data, like, does that data exist within something? does it /need/ to?

and if unreality is data, like. i feel like it'd have to be different than that data worlds we see in kh. pure guesswork, but i feel like it's /more/ than just data worlds. /Bigger/.

"how does [world created by the BoP] differ from [datascape of the journal]?" thats the thing, too. essentially, what's the difference between the Book, and the journal.

sHEESH i just rambled in my notes. it's a bunch of guesswork, and idk if i should even put it here. gimme a sec.

okay well might as well address this while i’m here. my guess is that there IS no difference. there is no difference between the BoP and fucking jiminy’s journal, ability wise. We know the BoP doesn’t actually predict the future, it was simply written in the past after the future had taken place.

inherently, there’s no difference.

the difference between their CONTENTS however. one accounts the future (that has already happened, this is kinda important imo). the other records the past.

two things they both share. 1) the events in both books already happened 2) we saw them happen. in reality.

just like the past is fixed and unchangeable, so is the future (bc it’s already happened). We know this.

so what ISNT fixed and unchangeable? if literally all of time IS?

fiction.

okay, well, duh.

this is where my ideas become pure assumptions.

my guess is that like i said, neither of these books holds any special power over the other. and if my next guess is right, then neither of these books holds any special power over literally any other book (in kh).

this has no bearing on my main points above. (did MoM not discover unreality, did he THINK of it? i think he did. did MoM write his idea in the BoP? i think he did. did writing it down result in the idea manifesting as a world? i think it did.)

the idea is that ANY book [any MEDIUM, for that matter (books, shows, movies, games)] can create worlds. THIS world (or these, that we’ve seen in the secret ending and secret episode) is just the only one we’ve been shown.

i could not tell you how. and i could not tell you why. the only guess i currently have is that fictional ideas (given a medium) create worlds bc that’s Just How Things Work in kh. like, it’s literally just the laws of physics of kh.

For SOME fucking reason, fictional worlds given a medium spawn real worlds, outside of kh. hence, unreality. (bc they’re outside of kh reality, and bc they’re Not Real. fictional)

What about the BoP and the journal then? The shit in there doesn’t manifest as a separate world because it has already manifested in reality. That’s why i was saying it was important that the future already happened. bc if you wrote about a hypothetical future, not simply recorded the future as witnessed through your time traveling eyeball, then that would therefore be fiction. even if it’s based on the real world, this hypothetical future would not consist of real world events. An AU, basically. like real world=canon, hypothetical future=noncanon (fanfiction oop) (nonfiction vs fiction)

so if you wrote your fake future shit, it would hypothetically spawn as a world in unreality. IF the idea of the creation of worlds through fictional ideas given a medium pans out lmao.

On the other hand, the power to create worlds really could be special to the BoP or MoM himself. but the reason i don’t assume that in the first place is due to his wording in his khux scene.

“If you imagine hard enough, you can make anything a reality.” (maybe it’s just phrasing. maybe only he has the power and he’s just not specifying it but 🤷🏽‍♀️)

this brings me to Pete in kh2 LMAO LEGIT i just remembered that one theory video about how the fuck pete manifested a whole ass time capsule world by WISHING for it. if all it takes is JUST IMAGINING (in the case of fictional ideas) and WISHING (in the case of real world events), that would throw this whole post out the window lmao.

if imagining ISNT enough, and you DO have to go through the step of /realizing/ your idea, by giving it a MEDIUM, then.

and the reason i stick so much to the concept of giving things MEDIUMS is bc of khux. and this is all based on the english versions of the game.

at this point i’m not even connecting random dots, i’m scribbling all over a blank page but. it reminded me of time travel. to time travel, you leave your body behind, resulting in just a heart. to restore the body, the physical form, you need two things at your destination. Someone with memories of you, and a medium.

a mental/non-physical element, and a physical one.

memories could equate to imagining. a medium to restore the physical form could equate to a medium through which to express a fictional idea. and these two things combined results in a physical manifestation. Except one process restores real people in reality, and the other process creates people/places in unreality. (bc worlds don’t time travel or do they oh god)

the likely thing is that these two things aren’t related at all, esp since i’m working with the assumption that the second process even exists.

there’s also this random google definition of the word medium as it relates to computers: “a particular form of storage for digitized information, such as magnetic tape or discs” 🤷🏽‍♀️

another random idea/question regarding the process by which we’ve seen mediums result in worlds. the journal was converted into data with mickeys fucking macbook computer/machine. and that resulted in the worlds and people written about in the journal being recreated as data, hence data worlds and data characters. (and real people can enter data too without necessarily being data themselves but that’s a random note)

would the writings in the BoP require a similar process? or any other book/medium for the matter? obviously it wouldn’t be the exact same process or it’d just result in a data world, and a fictional data world would just be a video game at that point. is writing it at all the process? i mean i already assumed it is but just thinking.

i thought maybe Verum Rex could have been the process for this world specifically. The video game could be the writing converted into data but i don’t think the time aligns. Like, Verum Rex is like the best selling game right now. and MoM conceived and potentially wrote the idea down back in the age of fairy tales. I don’t know what time shenanigans could explain that time gap.

imo the wildest part of this whole thing is just the assumption that writing down a fictional idea results in the creation of a whole ass world in a whole different plane of existence lmao. like i said, i could not guess as to why this would be the case, only that it could just be part of the physics in kh world. Action, reaction. Conception, manifestation.

if anything, this whole concept of ideas becoming worlds would just be a fourth wall thing. get an idea, put it on paper, make worlds. ofc everyone has recognized the meta-ness of all this lmao i’m here trying to rationalize it in-game.

i had more quotes i didn’t add lol, in regards to the similarities between the BoP and the journal. it’s kinda additional stuff about why i do or don’t assume the things i do. (the first maleficent quote is the biggest tho for me)

“Don’t you think it might just be worth our while to search for a connection? Perhaps there’s a link of some sort between that so-called journal of theirs and the Book of Prophecies.”

(“so-called” why this phrasing? is it that maleficent suspects the journal is more than it seems? is it just the eng dialogue or just maleficent’s speech pattern?)

at this point i’m mostly gonna copy/paste my ramblings, so it’s gonna be messier:

So clearly they’re telling us to LOOK for the connections between the journal and the book. is it for proof that the book of prophecies CAN make worlds?

and also, does it make worlds OUTSIDE of kh BECAUSE you can’t change fate? it depends on the power of the book, and what gives it that power. (if it’s a power exclusive to the BoP after all)

lmao admittedly, this can be encapsulated by stuff Spuuky said during one of his streams about how Jiminy’s journal is OP bc you could create literally anything by writing it down bc converting it into data would make it real, and able to directly affect and interact with the real world. And at that point i was like bruh it’s not the journal it’s the machine but??? LMAO ARE THEY SO DIFFERENT AFTER ALL, i hate this game

and, another random question, does stuff from unreality manifest in kh? and if it does, does it do it on its own or would someone in kh need to access unreality and carry the ideas back over to kh? i already asked this earlier, and my end assumption for now was that verum rex did NOT just leak into kh by accident, someone brought the idea over. and the reason i don’t think it was MoM is because i’m guessing MoM doesn’t work at square enix in kh (nomura is MoM theories incoming lol). And MoM is hiding in unreality (tho he seems to have been coming back to kh every so often when he sees fit, such as his intervention with xehanort).

imma leave this for now, my thumbs are RIP

[prophezeiung]

@vorhersage said:    @treppenwitzz    ( also sent by @youthblamed​ )  ›   send me a url and i'll tell you the following ( accepting )

my opinion on:

character in general: eve has a bunch but honestly the collection is so exciting... i first looked at the blog for the trc muses bc of the current Rereading Situation ( which.. i love them all, they’re all some of the best characters in both series and i’ve GOT to write with all of them !! ) but then i saw all of the other muses and got really excited, too !! i love all of the hargreeves from tua, the tone and the vibe of that universe are just so delightful(ly grim) to me, her hp muses are some of the best and most interesting characters out of the series and !! her ocs !! i’m so excited to know more about and write with her ocs, they seem all so precious to me and i can tell from that i’ve seen that she puts so much thought into them! tbh the other characters i don’t know, but i am always willing to learn more or tbh just trust her interpretation completely uwu how they play them: ok i’m gonna talk about the characters i’ve interacted with: their internal monologue gets me every time. she manages to work in details that i’ve long forgotten or didn’t consider and she makes them feel so real and complex, tbh adding more layers than are in the book... which ig serves the book narrative of being ~foreshadowy and not showing the whole picture BUT i prefer the whole picture and i think especially with these complex characters it’s such an amazing feat to fit that bigger context together so neatly if that makes sense!! i think she really hits that sweet spot when it comes to the tone of her characters which makes them sound so authentic! also, i’ve said it before, her writing is truly a work of art. i’m So in awe of how she picks up on the previous reply and makes it flow into hers so neatly, and her writing style is one of the most beautiful things i’ve read in a while!!!! the mun: i don’t tend to approach people for random plots when i’ve only been mutuals for like ten minutes, but i was so in awe with eve’s blog and so star-struck that she followed back that i had to initiate contact immediately.... and it turned out eve is SUCH an amazing person!! just the fact that she let me bombard her with my oc npc ideas and she immediately picked them up and expanded them, respectful of my universes but also putting her own spin and ideas to it in ways i’ve never thought of before, which was honestly such an enriching thing and i’m so, so grateful for. even for just considering to make these affiliated characters and being so interested in every detail.. i’m so happy that we talk and that she let herself be dragged into our messy gc

do i:

follow them: of course! that was an instant yes from me rp with them: yes, and i am so in awe every time she posts a reply want to rp with them: always! i’m so excited for our future plots and i can’t get enough tbh ship their character with mine: some of them but we can always do more 8)

what is my:

overall opinion: i was in love with this blog at first sight, i legit told everybody about this amazing blog i found, and i got so lucky to actually start talking and plotting with her! i am SO excited to write all of our new ideas !! sidenote, i laughed so hard when i saw her url lmao it’s so iconic !! german word url ganggg !!!!

note: mun’s answer are all to be completely honest. don’t send url if you don’t want brutal honesty.

[flyingcookierambles]

so i finished reading the northern caves

hey its a book ramble! after uuhhhhhh.. a year. anyways the northern caves! (https://archiveofourown.org/works/3659997/chapters/8088522)

i binged it in a whole day. and i have feelings. i think?

so ppl hyped it as a lovecraft-ish/otherworldly horror story and i think i got a bit sucked into that and let down a bit because to me the horror story wasn’t the implied dark magic connections the author had with uh. the Mundum. it was the unreliable narration and betrayal of friends. spoilers below!

so, if you’ve read the northern caves, you know what the Mundum is. it was just kinda introduced as some mystical thing in the universe that the author believed in. whether or not it was real was kinda left open ended i think.

if you for some reason haven’t read the northern caves (which will just be either the caves or tnc for typing speed’s sake), it’s about a group of online friends in a 2004 internet forum dedicated to a children’s book series called Chesscourt by Leonard Selby. the author died before he could publish his final book, The Northern Caves. thankfully, one of the ppl in the forums, metamarsh, is actually distantly related to the author, and in the event of leonard selby’s death and then marsh’s aunt’s death (i think she was selby’s sister or something), marsh’s family got all the belongings of leonard selby. all his journals, notes, and unpublished works left behind. TNC was one of them. marsh (or his aunt or some other relative) scanned the pages and released it online ig sometime before the story. and so the events of Spelunk 04! starts, in which the friend group of this forum plans an irl meet up at marsh’s house so they can go over the author’s belongings and try to make sense of tnc. tnc is, to put simply, a mess. there’s lucid parts and non-lucid parts, by which i mean that there’s entire pages of nonsense and also it’s mentioned that there are 3 entire pages that are just the letter “a.” this can easily be dismissed as the writings of a senile old man, until the revelation of the Mundum (mentioned above) comes up. 

then things so super wrong. 

so, the entire story is a “report” by a man on the forums named Paul. his handle is GlassWave. he is a person who went to Spelunk 04! and is part of the reason why the meeting went so wrong. around the part where the journals abt the Mundum come up, he totally gets into it. the narration around this part gets uh. kinda creepy. it also definitely doesnt help that there were drugs involved - adderall.

so uh. basically. paul and another guy, Arron/Errent Knight, get the Mundum. they dont understand why their friends dont understand it. the solution according to paul? put adderall into the coffee and stay up for 60 hours straight reading tnc in a group circle.

yeahhhhh.

so i personally wasnt super scared abt the entire lovecraft-ish/other worldly implications of mundum being real or not. it was the paul’s state of mind when he spiked the coffee with drugs. it was the entire betrayal thing. 

i personally haven’t really had the entire internet friends experience bc im p shy irl and online. i dont usually go talk to strangers in chatrooms/discord or anything. also stranger danger lol.

but i hear a bunch of stories abt that kind of stuff, the early 2000′s internet experience before ppl had more awareness of internet stranger danger. also i’ve been watching and reading abt a lot of internet drama thru commentary channels i watch nowadays (therightopinion is p good), and uh the whole parasocial relationship thing (so ive seen it be described as) is on my mind a lot now. since we view ppl as relatable and feel like we know them. now, of course, there’s a difference in the personal experience one can have between a youtuber or internet celeb and a person on an interactive forum/social media platform. i would think that more interactive platforms like forums or discourd would feel more personal to some than a celebrity but still. 

the entire narration of paul’s during the spiking the coffee scene was so rational-seeming to him. and then the betrayal that his friends, the ones at Spelunk 04! and online felt hit me. like, i’ve never personally experienced that kind of betrayal since i dont have internet/stranger friends, but still i think it’s really relevant now. on the 26th chapter (2nd to last), the forum comments of JimWind and Sally’s Lil Sis hit especially hard. 

JimWind:

Wow. Wowwowow. I just finished reading the whole thing through the latest bit GW's posted. I had heard things about Spelunk 04 having something to do with restaurant workers dying, but I just figured that was a baseless rumor because it seemed so hard to understand how that could have happened. But what really shocks me here isn't even that, it's the fact that GlassWave dosed his/our friends with hard drugs. (Adderall is just prescription amphetamine, AKA speed! WTF!!!) "GlassHole" indeed! TBH it really makes me uncomfortable with GW and getting this whole story from him. Of course when I first read this

“maybe not even the other forum members, not even the best among them, not even Jim, say”

I was flattered, especially cause GW's always seemed like one of the sharpest and nicest posters around these parts (until now!!). But now it kinda makes me sick to my stomach. I don't want this guy to think I'm one of the "best" Cafe people. And I'm holding back judgment on all this Spelunk nonsense until I hear about it from someone WHO ISN'T GLASSWAVE. (Plus, this is stupid, but there's something that makes it even worse about the fact that the diner has my name :P) No matter how you slice it, it's a sad day for the Cafe. D:

Sally:

Yeah me too JimWind. I'm literally crying rn. First Spelunk went wrong, then we have to wait to hear about what happened, then we finally get the report but it's from this jerk! I'm really sad bc this forum has meant a lot to me over the last year (its been a really tough year for me) and now I'm worried that everyone here might be some sort of drug-pushing creep :( :( :(

before this, everyone felt connected in some way w/ chesscourt and safe. and paul/glasswave was a decent person in the community! he talked to other ppl. ppl trusted him enough to invite him to this thing and meet up irl. and then he just. spikes coffee with adderall.

idk, maybe its just me since i was too young to be on fandom spaces in 2004 and be on chatrooms and stuff, but i feel like when the internet first came out everyone felt safe on it to some degree and the internet and real life were seperate spaces. now, esp with social media like facebook, real life and the internet are super connected. 

the fact that paul caused harm to his friends by spiking their drinks without consent is horrible. but like i feel like to ppl from 2004 who might not have experienced this kind of closely tied internet/real life drama before and also might not have the same sense of internet stranger danger that ppl have today, the idea of a person from the internet harming you in real life could be terrifying. today, i think that horror stories of ppl meeting online and then things going wrong is so common and in the news that we don’t bat an eye to it. but i guess maybe to 2004 ppl, this is like the ultimate nightmare.

when i finished the book, i felt a bit let down by the ending and stuff. it felt a bit anti-climatic. but after thinking about this from (what i think is) a 2004 person’s perspective, this is p awful. and the whole unreliable narration thing was very good.

i thought of midsommar a bit when i was thinking abt the ending. like, sure a bunch of horrible gory stuff happened and ppl died. but the real horror sets in afterwards when you realize that the movie is abt a vulnerable lonely woman in a neglectful relationship being indoctrinated into a cult thru drugs, isolation, and love bombing, and it was kinda shown as a “good thing” bc the protag finally found a place she belonged. when really, she was being further trapped in life, this time in a cult.

idk, but i guess that’s my ramble on the northern caves.

tl;dr - i read an original story from AO3 that was kinda hyped up for a lovecraft-ish horror, but i ended up interpreting the horror aspect differently and didn’t really get the mundum/lovecraft-ish part i think?

[medschoolash]

so i'm a casual reylo fan and i just have to say your tweets about this whole JB/twitter shit storm are soooo on point. threatening a lawsuit/getting parents involved is embarrassing, but these antis/sjws on twitter making up these insane false narratives about reylos being racist toward JB/KMT/OI when it was white dudebros who hate reylo just as much is INSANE yet all these people with exactly negative 10 critical thinking skills are falling for it

I also consider myself a pretty casual reylo since I haven’t engaged with the fandom nearly as much as I used to engage with fandoms in the past so  it’s been pretty interesting watching everything unfold. It’s also been interesting to navigate this entire thing as a black woman who loves reylo. 

When it all first started I thought it was genuinely ridiculous all around. Though I could see how you could interpret the joke as sexist, which is completely subjective, I thought to make it a big deal, especially on a holiday, was a little over the top. I also thought the subsequent response to the pushback was also over the top since it could have easily been ignored. It was also weird when John himself has expressed how easy it should be to ignore those sorta things because they don’t truly matter. What started as a stupid childish IG fight on NYE turned into this completely insane twitter scandal where people from every corner of the internet needed to chime in on fandom racism in star wars without knowing hardly anything about it besides what they saw in several false viral tweets, while also not addressing fandom racism in star wars at all since most of the vitriol was about reylo as a ship. The narrative went from “this joke is sexist you should reconsider” to “fuck off Its a joke people need to not take it so seriously” to “well since you wanna talk shit your ship is trash” to “everyone who ships this trash ship is racist and John is fighting back against imaginary racist comments he never actually responded to”. The next thing you know people were claiming that people who ship reylo were the root of all racism in star wars and that’s somehow by telling the world you think reylo is toxic we can end this racism once and for all and that’s where I just had about enough of it. 

I’m sure there are plenty of people are gonna look at me sideways for deciding to address how stupid and blatantly false the narrative people tried to paint about reylos was but I couldn’t be bothered to care when I know that I’m the kinda person that actually takes racism in media and real-life seriously instead of using it to wag my finger at anything I don’t like in media. I actually loathe how people in fandom trivialize racism to make themselves feel better about something they don’t like and I ESPECIALLY loathe it coming from nonblack folks who know that labeling something as racist is a sure-fire way to get black folks on board with your crusade like we’re all a bunch of perpetually angry attack dogs waiting to pounce on your behalf. It’s just tiring to see all the time. 

my dad always told me to be the kinda person who stands for what’s right instead of who’s right so that’s why I’m at this point now. The facts show that people took John’s trolling in response to the backlash and made it into this narrative about fandom racism that actually absolved the actual culprits of responsibility for their actions. People who are blatantly anti reylo got to pretend they had a legitimate reason to be anti while also pretending they actually care about the racism the cast has experienced when they don’t they just wanted to look like they do. I hate how people can say literally anything on twitter or tumblr and as long as it includes the right buzzword and can incite the most anger people will run with it no matter what. I want to see racism in fandom addressed but I don’t want to see people be intellectually dishonest in the discourse in a way that allows the true racist to skate free all because they can’t stand a ship. When that happens it undermines the entire conversation and something that serious deserves better than that. 

At the end of the day It really sucks that I had to watch horrid behavior against people who look like me be used as a weapon in a childish fight that ultimately boiled down to nothing besides ship preference and the need to find someone to be angry at for what people perceive as slights against a ship they like or a character they like. Meanwhile, the violently racist people who actually have attacked John and KMT (and I’m not saying no reylo has never sent john racist hate before but the idea that they have been the majority and originated it is blatantly false) are still out there spewing their hate and are actually feeling pretty emboldened at the moment since TROS gave them literally everything they could have wanted. 

[shaydixons]

skam remakes survey results!

in total i have 248 responses! there were only a few i had to delete (like people who only watched one remake and then voted for that one remake as their favorite- kind of not the point of the poll. stuff like that)

below is a rundown of the results!!!

part 1: demographics

the vast majority were 19-24 (48.6%) or 15-18 (39.2%) and just 8.2% aged 25 and above, and 4.1% under 15.

vast majority were female, 9.4% nonbinary, and 4.5% male.

most people who took the poll were bi/pan (53.7%), with a lot of lesbians also (29.5%), some questioning (4.9%), some gay (3.7%) and a few straight people (3.7%). also some asexual people, which, whoops i forgot to put that as an option but there were only a few.

part 2: viewership

the most viewed among people who took the poll: skamfr season 3, skam austin season 1, druck season 1, skamfr season 1, skamnl season 1, and skam spain season 1.

the least viewed was wtfock season 1. 

for future seasons people are going to watch: the most common answer was skam spain season 2! followed by druck season 3, skam france season 4, and skam austin season 2. only 21% of people plan to watch skam italia season 3.

part 3: opinions

the most popular eva was isa!!! by a LOT!!!! followed by emma (23%), megan (12.3%), Hanna (9.1%), Eva (Spain) (8.2%), and Eva (Italia) (4.9%). no one chose jana.

the least popular eva is italian eva with 25.8%, followed by megan with 24.5%, then Hanna, then Jana, then Emma, then Eva (Spain), and a very small amount (2 people) chose Isa as their least favorite. (the other tiny slivers are all people saying they can’t choose!)

the most popular jonas is yann with 38.3%!!!! followed by gio (19.3%), jorge (16.9%), Jonas Druck (15.6%), then Kes (9.1%), and 2 people (0.8%) for Marlon. No one for Jens.

by FAR the least popular jonas is marlon! also very unpopular is Jonas Druck with 21%, and Gio with 8%. the other ones are pretty marginal but yann had 12 votes, kes had 9 votes, jens had 5 and jorge had 3. 

shay is the most popular isak by a LOT (47.5%)!!!! also popular are lucas france (20.9%) and Matteo (16.8%). followed by lucas spain (8.2%), Lucas Netherlands (3.3%) and Martino (2.9%). just one vote for Robbe (WTFock).

by far the least popular isak is martino (62.9%)!!!! followed by robbe with 11.4%, then lucas france with 8.3%, then Lucas Netherlands with 7%. Just 5 votes for Lucas Spain and no votes for Shay!

the most popular noora is liv (37.9%), followed by manon (28.3%), then mia (17.9%), then Nora (10.4%), then Eleonora and Grace (2.5% each), then Zoë with one vote (0.4%). 

the least popular noora is grace with 47.2%, then Eleonora with 23.8%, then Mia with 13.4%, then Zoë with 8.2%, then Manon with 5.2%, then Nora with 2.2%. No votes for Liv!

the most popular sana is amira druck (42.3%), then Zoya (22.8%), then Imane (20.3%), then Amira Spain (8.7%), then Imaan (5%), and one vote each for white sana and Yasmina (WTFock).

i think this is the most unanimous out of all the questions!!! daphné won by FAR with nearly 3/4 of votes (73.7%)!!!! after daphné is engel (11.5%), then Kiki (5.8%), and Kelsey (4.5%), Viri (3.3%), and finally Silvia with only 1.2%. 

the least popular vilde is kiki (33.6%), then Kelsey (22.7%), Silvia (17.5%), Viri (14%), Engel (7.4%), Amber (3.9%), and Daphné had just 2 votes (0.9%)

the most popular chris is jo (35%), then alexia (27.6%), then Cris (21%), then Sam (9.1%), then Janna (6.6%), and just 2 votes (0.8%) for Fede.

fede is the least popular by more than half!!! followed by janna (15.1%), luca (12.4%), Sam (6.4%), Jo (4.6%), Cris (2.8%), and Alexia (1.8%). 

the remake people thought was objectively the best: Skam Spain is the most popular with 27.3%, followed closely by Skam Netherlands with 24.8%, then Skam France (17.6%), and Druck (17.2%). 8% for Skam Austin and only 1.7% for Skam Italia. No votes for WTFock.

honestly probably most people chose the same for these two questions, but anyway the results are slightly different. skam france is the most popular (25.9%), then skam spain (19.7%), then skam netherlands (18.8%), then Druck (15.9%), then Austin (15.5%), and Italia (4.2%). no votes for wtfock. 

okay so the most popular answer to this one by far was shay!!!!!! other popular answers were eliott, matteo, cris, isa, jo, emma, and lucas (france). 

best soundtrack: most popular answer was skam netherlands (35.5%), followed closely by druck (32.5%). then skam france (13.9%), then austin (7.4%), then spain (6.1%), then italia (0.9%). no votes for wtfock.

the most popular answer was skam netherlands (37.8%)! followed by skam france (22.6%), then italia (18.3%), then druck (10.4%), then austin (6.5%), then spain (2.2%). no votes for wtfock. 

skam netherlands won again with 37.6%! followed by druck (17.3%), france (15.9%), austin (14.2%), spain (8.4%), and italia (4%). no votes for wtfock.

part 4: long answers

Question 1: Do you think any of the remakes have outdone the original in any way? If so, which, and why?

okay so there were a few people who said something along the lines of “nothing will ever beat the original” but other than that: people said the remakes with more poc + wlw rep, and specifically mentioned skam spain, skam austin and skam netherlands a lot. here are a selection of the responses:

Austin for making Shay their 'Isak'. España for giving the second season for lesbian (?) Cris instead of Noorhell. France in the social media department, especially ig stories.

Spain; it is so kind & loving to its characters, which i think means a lot in a show that is supposed to be about LOVE

I really like the way skam españa handled Lucas coming out! It was very different from the original and shows that you can come out without having had to find a boyfriend! And they’re showing their (now openly) gay character recognising that gay culture exists and actively takes part of it! I’m over all impressed by skam españa. The way they handled Eva’s insecurity without actually having had Jorge hide anything bad from her. Them deciding to break up for their own best (and me thinking that after growing as their own person they will find their way back to each other). I really liked that they didn’t have break up-sex, I never liked that part in OG or any of the remakes.

I think Skam España was better than the og in terms of narrative tightness (although let's be real every s1 has been well done and narratively tight just because they're based on such a great season)-- making Eva actively choose to hang out with Jorge over the girl squad during the long weekend, having the central conflicts actually centered on her female friendships by having Viri betray her instead of Lucas, having the season that explores gay themes be centered around a girl in the girl squad rather than an abrupt change to a boy (girls can be gay! who would've thunk!). Also Skam Netherlands made Isa a much more active participant in her story earlier on than other remakes... not entirely sure this is better done but it is a refreshing new characterization of her that I liked! Also their soundtrack is better done, maybe. Also Druck has definitely outdone the og in terms of hating wlw their powerful misogynistic minds (':

skam austin is so much more hilarious than the og like its comedy is sheer gold

France in terms of cinematography and I feel also like they want to develop the characters more, Spain because they will focus on more things other than noorhell :)

Question 2: What has impressed you about each of the remakes? What has failed to impress you?

So this one was pretty mixed, but the most popular answer was definitely more diverse casting + inclusion of wlw and a bunch of people mentioned david as well. a lot of people said that skam italia failed to impress them because of whitewashing. a lot of people said that none of the remakes have succeeded in making noorhelm palatable, though many also said that winterberg was an improvement from noorhelm. people really liked the remakes that have mixed things up in terms of plot. a lot of people mentioned that girl chris is much improved in the remakes because she didn’t have very much character/story in the original. a few people mentioned not liking skam france because it’s unrealistic / too dramatic. here are some responses:

Impressed me: The new interpretations of the characters in ways that are familiar, yet makes them unique. Cool new insights into the cultures of different countries. Ways they've been able to increasingly diversify the original cast of the show. Making characters in the girl squad explicitly not straight. Giving the girl squad greater roles in their show. Unimpressed: erasing important parts of characters' identities from the original (i.e., making Chris characters skinny, whitewashing nonwhite characters). Unexcused misogyny and racism. The fact that no Skams except for Skam Austin and Skam France and Maybe Skamesp have been able to really grasp what makes Vilde a likable character. The decreased importance of Sana's role in season 1 in some remakes.

druck - failed to impress - s1 is so boring and if s2 was a person they'd probably send me to a conversion camp

france was impressive for stepping up from -4 to 100 in just one season and unimpressive is every time they make a new vagnus despite it being really irrelevant even in the og :( and when they keep the whole “are you sure your not a lesbian” @ noora in every remake bc it serves no purpose it was gross in the og but even grosser in the remakes bc they think they really have to keep that in even though it was not a plot point in og.. just a unfair joke it’s disappointing :(

I am literally physically unable to even casually check out Skam Italia because of white sana

skam españa said FUCK noorhelm and i respect that! also druck kinda sucks for how colossally they fail at trying to be woke. i dont watch skam italia but fuck them for whitewashing sana lmao

skam france - the tenderness of elu and them having hands

impressed by: - SKAM Austin being the only remake where Isak character is a girl; - SKAM Spain pulling a power move of the century and replacing a noorhell season with an original wlw one; - Druck having guts to NOT cast a white cis twink to play Even; - the piano scene from SKAM France. romance was invented the day that clip dropped. half of its views on youtube are mine not impressed by the fact that all remakes (except for Spain, but maybe they saved it for later seasons) seem very adamant on retelling the noorhell storyline. one time was enough

Question 3: Which characters do you think are an improvement from their Norwegian counterparts? Which characters do you think are worse?

a lot of people also said that none of the vildes (or: none of the vildes except daphné) have succeeded in the comedy and the complexity of original vilde. a LOT of mentions of girl chris being improved in every remake bc they actually gave her a story / she has more personality / made her bi. a lot of mentions of shay and cris!!! mixed about engel because some people said she’s an improvement and some people say she’s worse. people have said that none of the eskilds have the depth of the original. a few people also said hanna is an improvement in how they developed her in season 2 i.e. not making her into a party girl. here are a selection of responses:

pretty much every chris bc they’re getting development they deserve. especially alexia and cris for being gay. italian sana is worse for being white washed

chris had no essence in the og, but alexia Jo etc are great characters. William is worse in all the remakes cuz he never improved. skam Italia is worse in every way imaginable. skamnl is way better at showing how teenage girls act. skamus took everything they needed from og and made it better

Daphné and Alexia are both an improvement on Vilde and Chris. Spanish Cris also seems to be getting much more development than the original. Italian Sana is obviously worse, and again, personally, Niccòlo just didn't have the impact of Even.

Not worse Per say but its been excruiating to watch Noorhell in lots of different versions which is why i usually skip their season or at least all their scenes. I think that Yann from Skamfr is an improvement on the Jonas character from the og because he reflects his actions much more. I kinda think Kiki from Druck wasnt as likeable as Vilde from og at first and the lesbian energies were missing but she has grown on me...I REALLY dont like the way Tyler from Skam austin treats Megan and women in general...

every version of chris has become more well rounded and gayer. definite improvements. 

Shay is an improvement over isak because DUH, it's fantastic to have a black lesbian as the center of a gay storyline instead of just another white gay guy. Speaking up, Lucas Rubio is an improvement over Isak because he isn't straight passing, and if LVDH ends up having a journey to becoming more femme he'll be an improvement as well. Thin Chrises Are Worse (sorry cris soto my lesbian frog queen....) and engel and kiki are worse because they don't have the comic relief aspect that the OG vilde did, which was like, the thing that kept her bearable

Question 4: (for LGBT fans only) What gay headcanons do you have and why? How are they similar/different from the original? For example: Do you see a certain character as gay because that's how you viewed them in the original?

definitely the most commonly mentioned headcanons were lesbian daphné and bi kes! people mentioned bi isa a lot as well! a bunch of people said that they viewed vilde as a lesbian but none of the vildes besides daphné are lesbians. same with noora, though a lot of people said liv is bi or manon is a lesbian. a LOT of people said that grace is very straight. also jo being bi and elia (italia) being bi. 

A lot of my gay headcanons differ from the original. For example, I headcanon vilde as a lesbian, but most of her remake counterparts I headcanon as straight (with the exception of Daphne and maybe Kelsey). I also headcanon noora as a lesbian, but I headcanon most of her counterparts as either straight (Grace) or bi (Liv, Nora, Manon). I headcanon most of the Jonases as straight (Jorge, Marlon, Jonas Druck), but I headcanon og Jonas as bi, and also Yann as bi. However, I do headcanon pretty much all Chris characters as bi/pan (except for cris since she's probably a lesbian! and is it a headcanon if a character is confirmed bi?), and I think that's sorta because all the Chris characters have similar personalities and interact with characters in similar ways, so it makes sense that I'd headcanon them all similarly. I do try and take all the skam characters on a case by case basis, and I don't want to let my ideas from the original influence my views of the characters too much because they are new characters!

i always saw daphne as a lesbian because of vilde, but she has enough energy and evidence on her own. i also see manon and nora as lesbians (as i did with noora in the og, but they do have Energy on their own, as it the case with the majority of my headcanons) and emma as bi. jo and zoya? also definitely bi. most women have big wlw energies honestly. and yann and jorge are bi.

One thing I've noticed with the remakes is I don't feel obligated anymore to assign a gay headcanon to every character just to have them, if I don't feel gay vibes from a character I don't say they're gay or bi anyway just because you know! The gay headcanons I do have are based on who the characters in remakes, not just copypasting 

Every version of Noora (except grace olsen, who is disappointingly het, with a tad bit of bi potential) is a lesbian to me. This is probably because I viewed og Noora as a lesbian and this colors my interpretation of all of them unless they give off extreme het vibes (grace 😔) I also hc Isa as Very Bisexual, because I mean did you see the way Liv was introduced? Also we have the same hair so she’s gotta share my sexuality sorry not sorry

I headcanon literally every Vilde as a lesbian and every Noora and Eva as bisexual precisely because of the characters in the original. 

I will always headcanon the Eva's as wlw, partly out of wish fulfillment and partly because the supportive dynamic of Nooreva always stood out to me. Otherwise, the og characters don't affect my perceptions of remake characters much.

I see my high school self in Daphné, when I didn't know yet I was a lesbian. In s2 she was unable to name one thing she actually liked about the guy apart from that he's the official "hottest guy" at school, the whole "nothing turns me on", she wants a boyfriend to fit in but she's actually relieved when she learns that Charles Henri isn't into her and she's slightly obsessed with gays things (is Manon a lesbian? Lucas coming out, etc). I see my past self in her more so than with Vilde in og but that's maybe because I'm french and that's why i can connect with her more.

Question 5: What potential future things are you excited for? (Examples: Shay's season, Spanish Yousef, potential new storylines, etc.)

sooo many people mentioned shay’s season! and cris’ season! and david/matteo! and a lot of people are excited for french yousana & balloon squad! also lucas rubio’s channel! no point in showing the responses because honestly the above is what the majority of people said.

Question 6: any closing thoughts?

this one was funny kjhgfgh

(DAPHÉLIE RIGHTS!) 

also i got a ton of people thanking me for the survey so you’re welcome love u all!

conclusion

i think it’s interesting how skam spain, as a whole, was really highly rated like people said it’s objectively the best one AND it’s exciting how it’s changing things BUT their characters all scored pretty low on both favorite and least favorite, so it seems like none of their characters are universally hated or loved, like maybe they haven’t made as much of an impression? i don’t know! either way it’s underrated. 

also i didn’t realize how popular skamnl was! a ton of people said that skamnl is the best one, the best soundtrack, the best cinematography, the best eva, and the best noora! and yet it seems like everyone hates lucas vdh (tho not as much as they hate martino) which is interesting!

also skam italia scored super low on almost everything which i think is fun lmao

also shay is UNIVERSALLY ADORED which i’m so pleased about! gay rights!

also i’m sort of surprised at some of these results and i would LOVE if any of you want to share your insights as to why you chose a certain character as your favorite / least favorite! for example i want to hear why everyone hates grace! so feel free to send me a message explaining anything you said bc i’m genuinely curious :-)

also as i was going through the results i realized there’s a lot more questions i could have asked so if you guys ever wanna take another survey lmk :-)