#the writers hate daemon so bad

[mydairpercabeth]

im so over the daemon harrenhal arc it’s not even funny

[juniorfor2]

I cannot believe what they are doing to Jace - they really need to make another deliberate mouthpiece, just to make more Team Black characters misogynistic???

I was annoyed when Condal said a year back that it was ‘young, hot-blooded sons who eagerly started wars’ but I was hoping he’d mostly be referring to Aemond - you know, the canonical hot-blooded, idiotic dude who started a war with his kinslaying of Rhaenyra’s son? Not fucking Jace.

He’s the son of a woman who is trying to break into an oppressive system, and betrothed to a badass woman that knows how to use weapons and clearly likes to terrify the shit out of her enemies for fun - why are the writers trying to make it out as if Jace is being super restrictive and disbelieving of his own mother’s abilities???? Is that why they’ve been erasing Baela from the episodes? So they don’t have to confront their own stupidity and racism?

Condal, stop making this a both sides are bad show!!! It doesn’t work, it’s misogynistic, and only reflects badly on you.

Stop ruining one of the best characters of the entire dance just because you can’t stand the fact that Rhaenyra’s council and loved ones actually respected her authority and were dedicated to her safety.

I know you must hate the fact that Alicent’s family - the greens you so clearly insert yourself into - abandoned her without care after the fall of King’s Landing and clearly disregarded her authority the moment they could get away with it, but maybe you shouldn’t be adapting a show if you hate the story it was based on so much. The greens were misogynistic, mass murderer, rapist maniacs who couldn’t get themselves together and only lived as long as they did because of plot armor, so if you could finally get that into your head it would be great. Otherwise, fuck off.

[rxkuyo]

"Ahaha Daemon is so dumb for believing the old man is the one actively poisoning him when the weird goth witch giving him weird concoctions is right there."

May I introduce you to a beautiful concept known as sleep deprivation ? Man's only gotten poor quality sleep (if any at all) for weeks for all we know. Mood swings and paranoia are bound to go hand in hand with that one. Logical thinking ? Nope. Not happening. You add the fucking hallucinations further messing up his mind to the mix and you get exactly what we see.

[avnasace]

oh wow they really butchered daemons character huh

[moonssugar]

one thing about his dark materials fans is that they will never be satisfied

[maybeiwasjustjade]

Genuinely, perhaps 99% of me, believes that the only reason Condal and Hess made HOTD Aegon a r*pist/have adult Aegon’s introduction the aftermath of the SA of a maid, was because they knew that if Aegon was just a drunk and a cheat—like almost all Westerosi men—he would be too tragic of a character not to root for, and they really couldn’t have that. No, Aegon has to be the monster to Rhaenyra’s saint, because if you took away the act that made him monstrous, he’s so easy to root for, and the TB/TG divide would be significantly larger.

Cheating and visiting brothels are quite common in Westeros, with the vast majority of male characters doing one or the other or both. Drinking is even more so. Aegon would still be palatable with either or both traits because it doesn’t make him worse than Rhaenyra. Rhaenyra had three bastards with Harwin because Laenor’s gay, so it makes her affair understandable and valid. Aegon was forced to marry his own sister as a young teen, and clearly despises the whole targ-incest tradition. Why is it a crime that he doesn’t find his little sister sexually or romantically attractive???

Aegon’s basically a Greek tragedy made flesh. The eldest son conceived to be a long-awaited heir, yet simultaneously cheated out of a birthright. Born wanted yet unwanted, the heir who is not an heir. Meant to be loved, yet raised without it, with a mother’s disdain and fear as his only companion. His father stopped wanting him sometime after his second birthday (probably around the time Jacaerys was born), and his mother never wanted him anyway. His mere existence is a threat to a crown he never wanted, yet nobody cared when they placed it on his head. He wants love but no one loves him, and contrary to popular belief, that lack of love didn’t just stem from adulthood. He was a little boy once too, who very much didn’t deserve that level of apathy.

Married to his sister despite his clear disdain for his family’s incestuous tradition. Forced to father children on her at the grand old age of sixteen (and she fourteen). The only thing he ever really loved was his dragon, and the children he had. And even those he loses to tragedy, and someone else’s doing.

It’s not at all a surprise that Aegon’s defining trait is his love for Sunfyre. A ridiculously strong bond, born from years of having only each other. Moreover, a dragon is the symbol of power, which Aegon has little of. He can’t protect himself from his own family’s abuse or machinations, and unless he claims the crown everyone he loves will die. Dragons also represent freedom, and the ability to just fly away. And if there’s one thing Aegon wants more than anything in the world, it’s to run away from his family and the accursed throne.

In that, he’s not so different than a young Rhaenyra (pre-personality change anyway). Young Rhaenyra hated having to conform to societal standards. Hated having no choice but to marry, and to whom. She too wanted to fly away to freedom. There’s too many parallels between the two, even down to their ages pre-timeskip. Rhaenyra was about 18, and Aegon now is only 20. Yet Rhaenyra at 16’s only problem was whether her infant brother would replace her as heir, while Aegon’s was being forced to play house with his sister and newborn twins.

Perhaps misogyny and society would always be Rhaenyra’s greatest opponent, and the same Aegon’s ally when it comes to their claims, but it was not the only issue. Precedent declared that Aegon would be heir ahead of her, yet it was Rhaenyra’s position and honor that Viserys defied law for, even when she committed high treason against the crown thrice. She got everything; Aegon had nothing. He’s the underdog of the story, not her. So had they not made him an on screen r*pist (unlike Daemon who was off-screen one and merely an on-screen pedo and wife-killer), it would’ve been very hard for the writers to push their “Rhaenyra good, TG bad” narrative. Those two would’ve had too many parallels and foils for it to work, and they really couldn’t have that, could they.

No, Aegon has to be the villain; Rhaenyra has to be the hero. It’s a black and white war, good vs evil. That’s the story HOTD is trying to sell, and not at all the complex tragedy of a family tearing itself and its dynasty into pieces over greed and idiocy.

[falllpoutboy]

the ritualistic humiliation of alicent this season was absolutely disgusting and the show constantly needed to remind us that she is the character we should root against all the time and never feel bad for her, everyone else gets a pass because they’re a slave to fate, apparently, but not her. nearly every single plot point this season regarding her is swiftly followed by a punishment, whether literally or narratively.

she starts this season by having clandestine consensual sex with criston cole her sworn sword. they are so bad at being clandestine that otto and larys have clearly suspected something is going on with them. after being stood up by her, larys then replaces her regular lady’s maids with some from his staff so that they can spy and report back to him which makes alicent uncomfortable enough to send them away. that’s punishment #1

she and criston are having sex when b&c happens and are interrupted by helaena and jaehaera running in. but remember, jaehaerys was not the original target of b&c, and the mastermind behind it, daemon is redeemed by the end of this season, so alicent is so much of a POS hypocrite that while she too busy having sex with the LC of the kingsguard, her grandson dies on HER watch. and as much as i loved alicole, i really hate that the writers used their relationship to seemingly punish the characters when they literally haven’t done anything wrong. and now helaena knows about the affair too. punishment #2

alicent is confronted by rhaenyra at the sept of baelor, who lets slip that she heard viserys push for aegon to be king as his last words to her. but oh no, silly alicent, rhaenyra is here to tell you about the song of ice and fire, this stupid prophecy that has been passed from Targaeryen king to heir for generations now. how would alicent have known about it when she is neither king nor heir? doesn’t matter, she’s stupid for believing his words to be literal and stupid for playing a part in crowning her son. punishment #3

alicent takes moon tea, as an abortifacient or as a late contraceptive, we’ll never know! but the very act of taking moon tea is now perceived by grand maester orwylle, who now also has reason to suspect queen alicent has been having an affair. punishment #4

bitter and disillusioned with herself for not knowing about a stupid fucking prophecy nobody told her about and letting her horrible son aegon be crowned (even though the council was planning on installing him anyways), alicent talks down to aegon by reminding him he’ll never be as good of a king as his father (L O L) and he should do nothing. such a rousing speech leads to aegon getting drunk, flying out into battle on his dragon and getting maimed because of it. why did you say such mean things alicent? now look what you did. punishment #5

back at the small council, alicent advocates for herself to be regent with only one person there to agree with her, grand maester orwylle but not even her lover and closest confidant advocates for her. the son she is scared of the most becomes regent instead. silly alicent, don’t you know you will never be respected in a room full of men? how do you like misogyny, something you have apparently never personally experienced until this day, now? punishment #6

alicent goes to the sept of baelor to pray with helaena when a riot mob happens and is forced to retreat. this mob is apparently so righteously angry at not having enough food, they throw fish in her face with such good aim and call her the queen of fishes, alicent trips and falls for leaving helaena behind momentarily, and she also receives a bloody gash on her arm before barely escaping with her life and helaena. oh alicent, didn’t you know that the blockade of ships that carries food into the city which has been enforced by rhaenyra and corlys has actually been your fault the entire time?? punishment #7

back at the small council, alicent confronts aemond and is relieved by her duty on there by him. maybe its because she brings up a theory that he is now avenging the bullying he went through when he was young, which one could argue happened on her watch, is why she gets the boot. oh well, there goes any little ruling power and say in the war effort she had left. punishment #8

alicent sees off her brother ser gwayne who makes mention that their father otto kept her closer to him than gwayne because she was his favored child. Oh! so because alicent was otto’s favorite, it doesn’t really matter that he sold her into marriage and marital rape at age 14 last season. why would you ever want to be otto hightower’s favorite child? punishment #9

alicent also asks about daeron, with gwayne saying how unlike to aegon and aemond he is because he was raised away from them in Oldtown and not by her.. she even says this and gwayne dissuades her of that opinion but honestly, once alluded to that alicent is a bad mom, it’s just her biased brother claiming otherwise. punishment #10

[qyburnsghost]

Three characters it seems the writers hate:

Aegon- he’s a serial rapist drunk who is a complete fail son who is loved by no one, not his father, mother, the small folk , no one. Everyone just piles on him. He’s a puppet king who no one listens to, he was forced into this position and wasn’t trained for shit, not even to be the puppet. They have him going drunk into a battle instead of teaming up with Aemond like the book and Aemond attacks him with no interest in going after Rhaenys??Now he’s half burnt to a crisp by his brother who seems to plan to torture him as he lays half dead. His own mother can’t stand his cries over his dead kid and I’m unsure of what was happening as he called for her again as he lay there. How they managed to make us feel bad for a rapist with child fighting pits? Bad writing I guess

Daemon- amazing competent book character, loves his family, is brutal but not in a bumbling fool way. People feared him and I suppose they kinda do on the show. But he’s going around screaming he’s king like a child , he can’t convince people to do shit. He can’t handle hearing anything about viserys or the heir or anything even with visions mention to make him understand.he’s actively trying to gather shit for himself to make himself some kinda king. He has no redeeming qualities like the book, they didn’t even have him love his kids. Now they got him eating out his own mother in visions. Great

Alicent- in the book she was less weak and more scheming. This season they’ve made her hateful in every way. She is busy getting her back blown out while her grandkid is being beheaded, she won’t comfort her son instead more sex, she doesn’t care about her grandkid dying. Her relationship with cole is hateful and angry, not what I imagined for alicole as they presented themselves last season. She talks down to her son she forced to be king. Now shes a major hypocrite making bastards, trying to be queen regent like she didn't just uphold patriarchy for her drunken son then being shell shocked she got passed over by a man with less experience. They are just making her so despicable and erasing the whole reason she usurped the crown. I can’t.

The writers just hate them or something. I don't know.

[trinittyy]

fic recs

just a little assortment of my favorite works to keep track of them and also show love to the respective writers.

note - a majority, if not all, of the following works contain dark content that some could find triggering. tread carefully.

divider by @firefly-graphics

toxic affection - @love-toxin

warnings: harassment, bullying, some violence, forced relationship

pairing: yandere!bakugou x reader

literally unashamed to say that BNHA fanfiction is what brought me to Tumblr

but this was one of the first I found and it's epic

what's your escape - @gotnofucks

warnings: obsession, possessive behavior, non-con

pairing: dark!sherlock holmes x reader

the man is disastrously down bad for the poor reader

she was so witty and clever but in the end, he got what he wanted in the most satisfying way

infatuation - @darkficsyouneveraskedfor - masterlist

warnings: mentions of stalking, obsession, non-con

pairing: dark!clark kent x reader

poor girl didn't have a clue or a chance in the world to escape this man

sidenote: I can't add Roo to the recs without mentioning just how talented she is. She was the first proper introduction to dark fics in the Marvel fandom and I've been hooked ever since. The amount of detail and dedication that goes into her work is noticeable and she's a talent that deserves recognition. It's one thing to make me like a fic or two of my favorite Marvel men but another to have me thirst over shit I didn't think I'd like.

naughty ransom holiday tales - @jtargaryen18

warnings: kidnapping, non-con, dub-con

pairing: dark!ransom drysdale x reader

guilty pleasure series

hate to love ransom but I can't help it

what the king has - @sincerelythedarkside

warnings: dub-con, character death

pairing: soft!dark steve rogers x reader

royal au

love me a good jealous steve

plot twist shocked the shit outta me

smut was out of this fucking world

love bites - @cherienymphe - masterlist

warnings: character death, jealousy, non-con

pairing: dark!steve rogers x reader, peter parker x reader

modern vampire au (what's not to love there)

this actually made me cry like a bitch

ongoing series

sidenote: Seeing as Cherie will be on this list many times, I have to say it's difficult not to add every piece of work on this list because while some writers have a magnum opus, everything she writes is a work of art. Her range and the backstory she puts in her characters make each story feel like a movie I just can't get enough of. Will forever love her writing.

kryptonite - @cherienymphe

warnings: non-con, obsession

pairing: dark!bruce wayne x reader

the build-up and tension gave me actual chills

trailer park babydoll - @mypoisonedvine

warnings: dub-con, infidelity, age gap

pairing: wayne munson x reader

guilty pleasure fic

absolute filthy smut

wrath of the dragon - @straywords

warnings: non-con, chasing

pairing: dark!daemon targaryen x reader

yet another down bad man

overdue - @darkficsyouneveraskedfor

warnings: creepy curtis, non-con, obsessive behavior

pairing: dark!curtis everett x reader

there's little to nothing i love more than a good ole broody man with attachment issues

anxious - @syntheticavenger

warnings: stalking, kidnapping

pairing: dark!peter parker x reader

tasm peter

cutest in a way lol little fic

the dream that got away - @dotieeee

there's not nearly enough dark fics ft my fave peter so I love this one

warnings: dub-con, non-con, manipulation, controlling behavior, obsession

pairing: dark!morpheus x oc!mera

probably the first dark fic about morpheus

each chapter was a masterpiece

and i still haven't seen the show lol

thanks for the invite - @syntheticavenger

warnings: non-con, bitchy friend behavior, implied drugging (i think), oral (f receiving), slight bondage

pairing: dark!lloyd hansen x reader

a funny little unhinged lloyd fic

rsvp - @syntheticavenger

warnings: dub-con, hide and seek, exasperated bodyguard, exhibitionism (a bit)

sequel to the fic listed above

lloyd is still unhinged and reader is still suffering

[proudofmyanger]

Beware: a pessimistic rant with lots of speculations

Imo the decision to write Alicent and Criston having sex during b&c is really bad. I think it's a very unnecessary change, and I don't see how it fits the narrative. And it's so obvious what the writers' intentions are. They are not interested in exploring these characters and their relationship. They just want to shift the focus away from blood and cheese and make the greens look bad. Of course, in no way Alicent and Criston having sex makes them guilty of the tragedy that is b&c. But it seems that the show is taking the focus away from team black's fault to blame the greens. I don't believe that the showrunners don't know what they are doing.

In the books, Alicent was right there when it happened. She was the witness of team black's cruelty. She saw how they tormented her sweet daughter and her grandchildren, how they killed her grandson. Murderers making Alicent witness everything contributed to how vile b&c was, how unnecessary cruel. It gave Alicent even more motivation to fight her family's enemies and seek revenge. But now, thanks to hotd's bullshit she's going to blame herself more than anyone else. Wonderful. Why make her absent during b&c and add this new plotline about her feeling guilty because of it? Because god forbid Alicent starts being angry and hating her enemies again, right? They just have to make Alicent conflicted about her every action. They can't allow her to have confidence again. She has to always blame herself. They just have to make Alicent and Criston continue feeling bad about themselves.

There's also this picture:

Are they making it so that Aegon doesn't notice the murderer right under his nose?

So what do we get? Aegon doesn't notice Blood, probably because he's lightheaded or drunk. Alicent and Criston are absent having sex. And I'm not going to be surprised if they make Aemond go to the brothel during b&c, too. It feels like a joke.

B&C is supposed to show the cruelty team black is capable of. But instead of focusing on that, they're going to make all the greens look incompetent and feel guilty. And knowing this show they might even frame it as if the greens are at fault for what happened too. Tbh it's disgusting. The only people who are guilty are the ones who ordered, orchestrated and executed this bloody spectacle. But they are probably gonna not just make Daemon the only one behind it, but make the whole thing an accident. We already have leaks saying that Rhaenyra and Daemon just wanted to kill Aemond. It's going to be so bad.

House of the dragon? No, house of the accidents. House of the cringe and bad writing.

[gwenllian-in-the-abbey]

Not fluent in English. 

Please tell me I’m not the the only who noticed that team green characters in the show aren’t allowed to hate team black characters. 

Like Aemond can’t even hate Lucerys for cutting his eye and disabled him for life. 

And Alicent can’t hate Viserys for marrying and gr*ping her and forcing pregnancies on her, even though he have no intention to name any of their sons his heir, and treating her mostly like a caretaker and concubine rather than his lawful wife and the mother of his legitimate children. 

Aegon and Helaena aren’t even allowed to hate Daemon the man who ordered the death of their Son.

Like why??? Why aren’t they allowed to hate them???

Hi aleksandra! You make a good point! I think there are a few things going on here.

For one, I think the writing is incredibly inconsistent across the board this season, and there are a lot of dropped plot threads. Some of it is intentional (like, I do think B&C was deliberately downplayed and undermined so that Alicent could have that Dragonstone scene, more on that in a bit), some of it I think is just bad writing and a kind of ... well, look, I can't speculate as to what goes down in the writer's room and have no idea what their workflow looks like or what processes they follow, but a problem going back to S1 is that characters and dialogue vary a lot from episode to episode. I don't think it's all that normal for a fandom to be concerned ahead of time about which writers will be writing which scenes and which episodes, but with HotD there seem to be huge differences in how each writer interprets the characters. Having worked on OFCIR collaboratively with @aifsaath, we work really hard to make sure the chapters are relatively consistent. I gave our first few chapters to my critique partner for original fiction, a guy who knows my writing inside and out, someone I've worked with for about 6 years now, @theravenpiper, and he could not actually tell which scenes were written by me, and which were written by Aife, which I took as a big complement to our collaborative process, and to our ability to edit to a uniform standard. Now I'm not saying we do it better than the HotD writers, but I do think that there is something missing from their collaborative process that makes the entire thing seem disjointed.

I do not think it is entirely that the whole of team green is not allowed to be angry at team black, although that is part of it, some of it is part of an overall bigger problem where major events are not allowed to resonate across the story, and I chalk some of it up to simple bad writing. Rhaenyra is apparently over Luke's death enough by E3 that she can seek out Alicent for some kind of vague "let's stop this madness" ploy, but still conveniently needs "a son for a son" in E8. Although Rhaenyra is negotiating from a position of power in E8, there was no reason for her to feel so desperate as of E3, when Rook's Rest hasn't even happened yet, that she would set aside her grief and anger and go seek peace. Peace was offered in E10 of season 1 and Rhaenyra turned it down after Luke died, so what has changed besides Rhaenyra's own husband beheading a toddler? Other events happen too and have little or no consequence. Rhaenyra and Mysaria kiss in E6 and it's entirely forgotten by E8, with zero follow up. Criston Cole is brought to his knees by the sight of Aegon lying injured by his dragon, but never even visits his bedside. Gwayne never interacts with anyone aside from Alicent and Criston. Rhaenyra sends her younger children to the Vale and never mentions them again (she is shown looking wistfully at a box of toys), nor does Jace. Laena in a vision berates Daemon for not looking after their girls, but does he ask after them when Broome shows up directly from Dragonstone? I could go on. Events just happening and then never really mattering again is a consistent problem throughout the season, which makes it hard to tell when it is happening deliberately and when it is happening because the writers can't get on the same page.

There are two things I do think are deliberate, however, one of them being the scrubbing of Viserys' image. While audiences loved Paddy's performance, a lot of viewers did pick up on how Viserys played favorites and neglected his sons, and I think when the show decided to switch up Alicent's motivation from "she wants to protect her children and knows they will face the sword if Rhaenyra comes to power" to "she misheard Viserys' last words," they knew that the natural question is, "why should she care about Viserys' last words?" A lot of the immediate feedback about that episode involved how Alicent was stupid for not knowing Otto planned to have Aegon take the throne, and a lot of people didn't think that Alicent (or Aegon for that matter) really believed that Viserys changed his mind, but apparently that was the writers' intention, that Alicent truly believed it and managed to convince Aegon (there's a lot I could say about how they could have included this deathbed misunderstanding into the plot without having it replace all of Alicent's other motivations, but they did not do that). So in order to drive home the point that the whole entire war is being fought due to this misunderstanding, they have to make sure the audience is clear that all of these characters considered Viserys a good king. Even if he was Alicent's rapist. Even if he was a deadbeat dad. Even if he was a terrible husband. We are meant to believe he chose Rhaenyra not because he was playing mindgames or out of guilt over Aemma's death, no we must believe he chose Rhaenyra because he was good and wise and to convince us he was good and wise we have to have the green characters reminding us constantly that things were so much better when Viserys was around, that Aegon is inferior to Viserys, that Viserys' wishes are all that matter. Nevermind that it goes directly against the book, never mind that it's not even a particularly powerful or interesting change, it's what enables Rhaenyra and Alicent's relationship to continue. Because here's the thing-- if Alicent put Aegon on the throne because she felt it was the only way to keep her family safe, and because she feels that law and tradition ARE on her side, and because absolutism isn't good (!!!) then there's no chance for her and Rhaenyra to ever reconcile. These are irreconcilable differences, not misunderstandings. And so the show has to glaze Viserys otherwise the basic reasoning falls apart.

And the second is the events like Luke's death, Blood and Cheese and Rook's Rest come in, events in which the greens or the blacks harm and traumatize each other directly. It is not that the greens are not allowed to hate the blacks, it is that Alicent is not allowed to hate Rhaenyra, and by extension, the people who Alicent cares about are not allowed to hate her (I would argue that Aemond is allowed to hate Luke on screen, he literally murders him, and I don't think the scene with the brothel madame is an expression of true remorse, it's more "I'm kinda sorta sorry there were consequences for my actions."). Alicent cares about Helaena the innocent, and therefore Helaena cannot be allowed to hate Rhaenyra (note Phia Saban's many interviews about how apolotical and neutral Helaena is). Aegon, on the other hand, can be affected by B&C because he is allowed to hate Rhaenyra. In fact, his hate for Rhaenyra puts him at odds with his mother, which is what the show wants. Aegon is gravely injured at Rook's Rest, but good thing Rhaenyra's forces did not cause the injuries, Alicent herself drove him to battle with cruel words, and Aemond burned him, which puts him at odds with Alicent too (and Helaena is allowed to express ire at Aemond by extension). If you look at S2 as an exercise in driving a wedge between Alicent and her family and downplaying what happens to them in order to justify their decision to have Alicent seek out Rhaenyra and surrender Aegon's life, it makes a lot more sense.

The thing is, it still doesn't work. Their efforts are much too transparent and require characters to act in ways that are simply not within the realms of how normal human beings would react to these situations, much less the characters established in S1. There is a twitter user, and I'm so sorry that I can't remember their name at the moment, but I've seen them express the sentiment several times that Alicent's character this season made them aware, in a way that a viewer should never be aware, that these are scripted lines coming out of her mouth. That is, a lot of the characters in S2 do not feel like actual people. Aegon is such a fan favorite this season because he feels real. Alicent garnered legions of fans last season because her struggle felt real, even if we didn't agree with it. She felt like a character who inhabited a quasi-medieval world, bound by restraints we are not bound by, but nevertheless a human with human reactions who had to make difficult choices and persevere through them. And any human would be angry beyond comprehension at Blood and Cheese, would lose all faith in Rhaenyra, would know that there can be no peace if she is ruling with a man that ruthless at her side. If she thinks her sons are devils (and mind, so far as king Aegon's most egregious action is executing a handful of ratcatchers after one of their number murdered his son, whereas Rhaenyra burned about 65 peasants alive in a quasi religious ecstasy-- will Alicent ever find out about that, I wonder?), they are at least the devils she knows. Better they all die than end up in Daemon's hands, surely? And so OP, you're right, they are not allowed to hate each other when naturally you, and many others, feel like they should. That is because they are writer creations who would never do such things as what happen in the books in the first place, acting out plot points of entirely different characters (their book counterparts).

[mellowpainternut]

Writers maked Aegon a pedo just because Mushroom said it "99.9% of his words are lie" And I don't have any problem with that ok?

But if they gonna make him a pedo and make people hate him, they also should make Mushroom others words true too.

They should make Rhaenyra have her half sister and step mother raped.

They should make Jace a cheater.

They should make Daemon a pedo rapist who cheat on his wife and then abandon his family to sleep with a 17 y/o.

If they really want to give us the right to choose our team, then they should not discriminate.

They should not cover blacks mistakes and only make greens look bad.

It's not a fairytale book about love and a strong princess who wants to save the world.

It's not about a feminist story with a lesbian relationship between two little girl.

This story is about two fucked up siblings that ruined Targaryens.

It's about two greedy, spoiled and cruel siblings who fought for iron throne.

It's not about Alicent and Rhaenyra, it's about Aegon and Rhaenyra.

It's not about a romance between Rhaenyra and Daemon. It's about how their relationship was toxic and how they used each other.

It's not about a hero and villain, it's about two super villain who been nothing but cruel.

It's about a dumb narcissistic woman and a broken mad man.

It's not about beauty and love. It's about blood and war.

The whole point of this book is to show how awful both side were and why because of two cunt house Targaryen fall.

Aegon wasn't a coward who wanted to escape. He did everything to protect his family. He was the one who fought for his family and survived, he was the one who survived the dragon fire while Rhaenyra literally did nothing and watched as her family died. He was the one who lost his everything for something that he never wanted but was forced to accept because he wanted to protect his family. He lost his family that he tried to protect, he lost his children, he lost his pride Sunfyre, he lost his body, he lost his mind, and he was betrayed. He was the most tragic character in the story yet in the show he's just a pedo rapist.

Rhaenyra was a fucking liar, a whore who opened her legs for any man that she liked, a fucking narcissist, she was literally female Maegor yet they maked her the most tragic who only became cruel after her child died even though she was always a spoiled and dumb woman who just wanted to kill anybody who said true about her bastards. Yet they maked her a fucking saint. A boss bitch with her womanly power. Someone who can do no wrong.

I'm so fucking tired of this show.

[alicentflorent]

I have had to unfollow so many supposed Alicent fans because of their support for the bastardisation of her character. I didn't mind that they were Rhaenicent shippers but the way they're jumping through hoops to justify Alicent choosing Rhaenyra over her own family is making me want to pull my hair out!

What do they like about Alicent exactly? That she's a pathetic hypocrite who will happily side with the woman who slaughtered her grandson? Don't give me the whole "but Nyra didn't know!" bs. Did she punish Daemon? Did she show any remorse? Did she apologise for what happened? No, instead she demands Alicent accept the deaths of her sons to avenge Luke.

The fact of the matter is show!Alicent doesn't exist for Alicent/Team Green/HotD fans, she exists only for Rhaenicents/Rhaenyra stans who want to see everyone fall at the Dragon Queen's feet in worship of her.

You're absolutely right, she only exists for Rhaenicent and not even in a good way because Rhaenyra (understandably) looks down on her and Alicent's characterisation has to be thrown out and she has to make herself worthy of Rhaenyra by going against herself and what she fought for and they dress it up as her finally "doing something for herself" (which is what giving in to some kind of degradation kink?)

Realistically Alicent should have gone feral the moment Rhaenyra said "a son for a son" those were the words daemon used when instructing two assassins to kill one of the Hightower boys. Those are the words Heleana heard before being forced to point to her son who was then beheaded.

In the books Alicent says something like "how many must die for your thirst for vengeance?" why couldn't the show give her this line? why is Rhaenyra the only one allowed to want revenge? why is she allowed to call out alicent/the greens actions but Alicent isn't allowed to be angry and call out Rhaenyra/the blacks? Why is she going to Rhaenyra and debasing herself by confessing her sins and asking Rhaenyra to come with her? Her priority is helaena so why is she making a deal that isn't well thought out that will kill the father of Helaena's child and then going as far as to invite Rhaenyra knowing that Helaena's son was killed in Rhaenyra's name and Rhaenyra never apologised for it? She isn't liberating herself, she's betraying herself before becoming the queen in chains along with Helaena. As much as they defend it alicent choosing Helaena, this plan does not help Helaena.

Mind you, I've also had to unfollow or block certain "team green" stans who fell for the anti alicent agenda. Stans who will write meta's on how Alicent's sons have been done dirty by the writers while also hating on alicent for being so evil and horrible to her sons. Alicent has been rage bait for both sides of the fandom ever since 2x01, she has been humiliated sexually and politically for daring to choose the wrong side. I hate how she's been written but I can acknowledge that this is a clear attempt by the writers to punish alicent and reduce her to her relationship with Rhaenyra. I can also acknowledge that the most of team green have been treated similarly by the writers. In season one they made it clear that while she wasn't a good mother, she loved her kids fiercely and protected them and what have given her life for them. in season two we are constantly being hit over the head with the alicent is a hypocrite and a bad mother narrative and in almost every episode there is a scene of Alicent's bad mothering paralleling Rhae Rhee's good, loving mothering.

[juniorfor2]

Something I have felt is so frustrating throughout this series is the way that writers use time skips. I know most people hate them, but they seem to hate them because of what is being skipped, not so much for the way they are used.

Cause the writers aren’t just leaving out events during the time skips to get to plot points they want to faster, they are using them to shove in illogical characterization and events. The writers aren’t willing to show us what happened during every time skip, but still expect us to believe everything they say about what happened during that time.

Rhaenyra suddenly forgives Alicent even after being abused by her in court? Guess what, stuff “just happened” during that time skip where it wasn’t so bad.

Rhaenyra and Daemon should be getting along and Rhaenyra should obviously know how hurt Daemon becomes when he isn’t trusted? And she actually shouldn’t be that peaceful because Daemon’s here to support her and that’s literally why she married him? No actually, she’s her father’s daughter now (pls ignore Viserys’, “must you insist on taking after Daemon,” and Rhaenyra’s, “I cannot face the greens alone.”) and they clearly have never built a working relationship in their 6 YEARS of marriage. They really just never knew each other.

Rhaenyra doesn’t connect with her stepdaughters (or somehow connects better to Baela, a mini Daemon - whom she is currently fighting with - rather than Rhaena, a mini Rhaenyra)? Guess what, they just never connected during 6 YEARS together. Is that illogical - no, what are you talking about, it obviously could have happened during the time we won’t show even you. And Rhaena just never developed a personality besides, “I want dragon,” so this is very logical and totally not racist.

Jace somehow just accepts that he’s a bastard without any personal journey? Also a time skip, just believe whatever happens. No, that obviously isn’t important characterization or an important arc.

Alicent seems to become super religious and bigoted from episodes 7-8? Well, yes, but she isn’t THAT bad, and we just wanted it for fun, you can drop it now so make room for Rhaenicent when convenient.

Team Black should have a super interesting family dynamic that should reflect a theme of “found family” with legitimate and illegitimate step-siblings and half-siblings with different hair color and skin color that contrasts so much with Team Green’s similar looking family that breaks apart so easily? You must be joking, Daemon was obviously never involved in his children’s life for 16 years and Jace will not have any relationship with Aegon & Viserys, and Rhaena will act like she’s just a distant nanny to 3 kids she’s clearly never met (they’re definitely not her siblings, pls ignore). But yeah, Aegon now just respects Helaena despite calling her stupid, and he’s certainly never raped her or anyone at all. He’s a family man, what did you guys think he was?

It’s pretty clear that the writers aren’t so much trying to skip past events, as they are using the time skips to shove in whatever characterization they want. Cause if they actually put in the time, none of these characters could really turn out as they are - it would be too obvious. But by using time skips, they can rely on people’s lack of knowledge to essentially shove in whatever head canon they have. And it is so frustrating how easily so many people fall for it.

[aliyhasdreams]

The only character in the show with sense is Aemond and Jace. At this point everybody else can just die. Actually I can’t wait till they all die.

The show has just turn to pure shit and all its characters filth.

Also I might get hate for this but I don’t like how they made Helaena’s character. Like why is she over here giving guidance to fucking Daemon if she fucking knows he ordered the death of her son?! Just because it’s all apart of some role in a fucking prophecy!! I wanna scream so bad!

Another thing Rhaenyra talking about blood being shed and it’s too late is funny considering the fact that after her SON was MURDERED she still sneaked into Kingslanding to meet with Alicent. Make it make sense. I’ve always knew the Sept seen was fan service and you see how it’s affecting Rhaenyra’s logic as a character. Like the writers are so ugh.

[gojuo]

As a mom i find it revolting that condam and hess made helaena say « i shouln’t feel sad cuz babies die all the time » wtf it’s not about babes ditng it’s about HER babe diying so if it was a childless person sying that ok but not from a mother who just lost her babe and they are making aegon the bad guy for wanting revange 👌👌👌 chef kiss just chef kiss 🙄 i am thinking that that phrase was just written so they can brush aside the kids deaths so they can justify women againts war narrative but i stil’ jave hope in humanity and that people will see what they are doing and stop sying it’s a good show like bitch if it was my daugther that was killed and i had a dragon i would burn and kill everyone just so they pay. Helaena dosn’t even look depressed like in the books so what will the excuse be that she dosn’t go burn dragonstone on dreamfyre???

That scene really rubbed me the wrong way but I haven't quite been able to put to words exactly why and how .... But @zumurruds explained it quite well here:

I've already said something on the narrative weight of B&C, and it's quite evident to me that the writers have been trying very hard in undervalueing its importance because of what zumurruds said above. If Helaena herself gets over Jaehaerys' death in the span of one day, if Aegon does, if Aemond's reckless actions that led to the assassination are never reckoned with by any character, if all that Alicent says about him is "The child's pain is ended" (to service the writers' attempt at dehumanizing Jaehaerys to make the viewer not care about him), if Otto's PR move is framed as something nefarious instead of the typical funeral procession of a member of the royal family, if we don't even see Jaehaerys' funeral like we did Luke's, then how can the viewer be anything but desensitized to Blood and Cheese? How can the viewer do anything but exonerate Daemon and Rhaenyra of this act? Rhaenyra in the episode literally said, "I would never harm innocents like Helaena!" As if this line isn't a blatant attempt at manipulating the viewer to feel a certain way about Rhaenyra's involvement in B&C by the writers, egregiously using her as a mouthpiece to absolve her of any evil she causes and has caused. Clearly whitewashing her of this act. Daemon too, because "It was a mistake! I only named Aemond!" and then having him have hallucinations in Harrenhal of Jaehaerys. We've actually seen Rhaenyra with Jaehaerys more times than we've seen Helaena with him. Like let that sink in.... And what we get from all this is that Helaena forgives Alicent? ... So basically the narrative is implicating Alicent and Criston in Jaehaerys' murder (already did tbf when the writers changed her being in the room to her not being there), but it washes Daemon and Rhaenyra's hands completely clean.

I know there are people who are trying to rationalize that scene as Helaena dissociating in order to cope with the trauma, but when you factor in Condal openly saying that he views Blood and Cheese as it was written in F&B as propaganda uttered by Alicent, and then him removing her from the event to go have sex with Cole with that being the reason there are no guards protecting Helaena's chambers so as to implicate them both in the murder .... Is that really what we can assume Condal wanted to do with Helaena in this episode?

I hate that scene. I really fucking hate that ep.3 scene.