juniorfor2 - Tumblr blog

[juniorfor2]

I will never understand how this specific fandom, mostly on tumblr, managed to create an entire group of people who love non-characterized, essentially non-existent, super “pure” side characters in a way that points to an incredibly specific group of very, very white liberal people who think that they are super accepting by engaging in political correctness to such an extreme degree that they actually end up on the queerphobic, non-feminist, and racist side of refusing to accept anyone who breaks from the social norm and only accepting “pure” and insignificant characters that have to be self-inserted into in order to have even the slightest amount of importance.

[juniorfor2]

The biggest problem is that it is completely unearned for Oscar to be insulting a 50 year old war veteran and Prince like he is when he is fifteen.

In ASOIAF, Jon at 14 was an idiot. He was getting his entire worldview wrecked every single chapter we read about him. He did come out on top a few times, but his whole first part arc showed how incredibly privileged and naive he was.

Robb was similar in the first book. Naive, overly bold in a way that could easily get him killed. Even when he starts leading a war, he has a very hard time keeping the northern lords together, even after taking the GreatJon’s finger and winning every battle. His newness to politics even ends up leading to his death.

Same thing with Dany, and Sansa, and every other character at a young age. All of them had to go through book long arcs, and some even longer, for them to finally be able to come out on top, and have the confidence to truly push back against their older doubters or antagonists. Cause that’s how character arcs work.

So when Oscar comes in, at fifteen years old during the longest peacetime ever in the history of the kingdoms, it is completely unearned for him to snap back at Daemon. Oscar has never done anything close to what Daemon has, seems to have extremely little experience with any of the lords, and has never gotten an arc to even show his progress. He just shows up at the beginning of the season for a single scene, a nervous kid whose grandfather hasn’t even died yet, and then shows up for yet again another single scene as almost an entirely different person.

Oscar is essentially a fanfic character, the type of character who all of a sudden gets god powers and their antagonist is reduced from a well written, nuanced person to a pathetic, whining thing that essentially anyone could defeat. It’s terrible writing for a show. Especially because it’s not meant to be good writing - it’s meant to act out a fantasy: one character has all the love, one gets all the hate, good storytelling is almost intentionally thrown out. And the writers were hired to write a good adaptation, not their fantasy.

As for the part about Daemon and Rhaenyra in the book, I think you’ve misread a big part of that. None of the lords fight for her because they’ve all of a sudden decided that gender equality was an amazing goal. No, they decided to follow her because 1) they’ve actually met her when she went on a tour and they liked her, and 2) MAIN REASON: they swore a direct oath to her.

GRRM specifically characterizes the Riverlands rather differently from the Small Council characters of Tyland Lannister. By GRRM’s characterization, most of the Riverland lords ARE old enough to remember having sworn their direct oath to her.

From the Twins rode Ser Forrest Frey, the very same “Fool Frey” who had once begged for Rhaenyra’s hand, now grown into a most puissant knight. Lord Samwell Blackwood, who had once lost a duel for her favor, raised her banners over Raventree.

Petyr Piper, the grizzled Lord of Pinkmaiden, spoke for many when he said, “I swore her my sword. I’m older now, but not so old that I’ve forgotten the words I said, and it happens I still have the sword.

And despite Condal and Hess’ attempts to act like nobody cares about their oaths during this time, it’s actually quite important. Most in ASOIAF don’t like to randomly break their oaths for no reason. Those that do are, more often than not, portrayed as the opportunists/part of the (overarching) enemy.

So most of the Realm during this point kept to their oath, which is why Rhaenyra had 53 houses to Aegon’s 28. Because they swore directly to her, regardless of their personal opinions about gender, they weren’t going to break their own promises.

As for the Blackwoods despoiling the septs, well it’s kind of hard when there were only two houses in the Riverlands against Rhaenyra, the Bracken’s couldn’t exactly go to get help when everyone else was going to battle their house anyway if the Blackwoods hadn’t gotten there first.

And I’m not entirely sure what you mean by “GRRM doing all the work for Daemon when he was a dickhead.” Daemon had no such direct characterization in F&B, that’s from the show only. Daemon had plenty of experience making and leading armies, he formed and led the gold cloaks, and supplied a large part of the army to fight in the Stepstones and won. So it’s not like Daemon was just handed this achievement out of the blue, he had the necessary background.

Nor did he ever bully any of the Riverland lords into submission in the book.

The sudden, bloodless fall of Black Harren’s seat was counted a great victory for Queen Rhaenyra and her blacks.

When Prince Daemon sent forth his call to arms, they rose up all along the rivers, knights and men-at-arms and humble peasants who yet remembered the Realm’s Delight.

You’re mixing up the show and book too much as if they were the same thing.

I will never understand this fandom’s absolute adoration for the writers’ self-inserts.

Rhaenys and Oscar Tully were perhaps the worst written inserts this entire season, yet somehow they seem to be the most loved characters.

Why is this fandom so bad?

[juniorfor2]

I will never understand this fandom’s absolute adoration for the writers’ self-inserts.

Rhaenys and Oscar Tully were perhaps the worst written inserts this entire season, yet somehow they seem to be the most loved characters.

Why is this fandom so bad?

[juniorfor2]

The amount of hatred specifically towards Emma this season, a non-binary person, and Olivia last season, a woman…I swear people think they’re not obvious but they so are.

But interestingly enough, it feels like most of the people being vitriolic towards Emma are LGBTQ themselves. And when they’re questioned if they are being transphobic or not, their only defense is ‘no I’m queer that’s impossible’…

Cause of course none of us have ever heard of a queer person excluding other parts of the community.

I get that the actors can say things totally off base from their character. I get that it’s frustrating. But most actors do not operate under the assumption that the writers absolutely hate a character or want to tell an original story when they are supposed to be writing an adaption. So if you’ve got a criticism of the writing, maybe blame the writers - you know, the ones hired to write this show?

The Dance of Dragons doesn’t have a lot of good characterization, least of all for Rhaenyra, whose whole narrative is absolutely engulfed in misogyny. And its parallels and connections don’t just span across Fire & Blood, but GRRM’s entire series, from The World of Ice and Fire to his main series around Daenerys. It’s not a light book in the slightest, so the actors were always going to need to trust that the writers knew what they were talking about.

I don’t know why people are trying to say that the actors should know the book characters inside and out - that is quite literally not possible for this book. They were always going to need to go off of what GRRM told the writers along with whatever creative license the writers took. That was always how it was going to be. Obviously Condal and Hess went off the rails here, but that’s not something the actors can control.

Would it be awesome if all the actors did not trust Condal and Hess, and did know exactly what their characters were like, and fought super hard to keep that characterization? Yes, obviously, but that wasn’t going to happen the moment C&H started to write their own misogynistic, essentially original story. How was Emma supposed to portray the book character when their show character is now a religious fanatic? How were they supposed to portray an excellent mother when every one of Rhaenyra’s lines is doubting her family? How were they supposed to portray a great love story with Daemon, when they’ve only got 1-2 scenes post S01E06 where they aren’t arguing with each other?

Matt Smith couldn’t do anything either to save Daemon this season, the writers changed him so badly. There was no way to make him better once he was made to be a completely different person.

Even when it came to Emma’s suggesting a kiss between Rhaenyra & Mysaria - if that had never happened, would it have suddenly removed all the romantic tension that the writers had already written in purposely beforehand? No, of course not - because they only suggested that scene when it went along with what was already implied. I wasn’t particularly a fan of the kiss when it should have been Laena and Mysaria should have been kept the sort-of-side villain, but that wasn’t going to happen regardless.

Emma is not at fault for the terrible writing this season. People have seriously got to let go of the transphobia, cause otherwise I know it’ll be off the rails next season. Why people view it as more acceptable to blame the non-binary actor rather than the writers who wrote the damn show, I will never understand, but people have got to quit.

[juniorfor2]

Can't express how stress free being open minded is.

Some lesbians use he/him? Oh cool.

Some people have people inside their head and sometimes it's fictional chars? Sick your brains like a pirate ship they're all working to run.

Some people like being treated like a pet dog? Bark bark bro.

Being fat isn't unhealthy but a perfectly normal type of body to have? Kinda beautiful how different we can all be.

Something doesn't make any fucking sense? Cool an opportunity to learn. And even if I can't figure it out it's cool we still have mysteries today.

[juniorfor2]

[juniorfor2]

Tumblr, your algorithm is shit, why is 90% of my “For You” pro team green/Aemond Targaryen crushing?

What did I do to deserve this?

[juniorfor2]

When Aegon cannot control his council: Oh, look at him, he’s so desperately trying to be a good king, it’s not his fault that others disrespect him!

When Rhaenyra cannot control her council: How can Rhaenyra ever think she would be a good queen, she can’t even control Ulf or her councillors, how pathetic.

There is certainly something to be said for how neither Aegon or Rhaenyra can control their council, but that is the fault of the writers, not either of the characters - cause they’re fictional, and therefore can’t exactly choose whether or not to follow their bookselves. Both should obviously have full control over their council and subjects, just as in the book, especially Rhaenyra with her 6 years on Dragonstone dealing with politics already. The fact that neither of them can maintain even an inch of control over either their own family or their council in the show speaks to how ignorant the writers are of a larger court life and kingdom - a fact that has already been demonstrated in Season 1.

What is more interesting is the way only Rhaenyra is criticized for the lack of control. Only Rhaenyra is at fault. Sure, “Aegon didn’t want it,” and whatever. The fact that he is unable to control the council is not under his control. Yet isn’t Rhaenyra’s lack of control also not her fault as the show implies? She is being overlooked because she is a woman, not because of any true failure on her part.

While I disagree with the show’s interpretation of both characters’ rule, it is not possible (or at least disingenuous) to only take the show’s interpretation of Aegon and not Rhaenyra’s. To wholeheartedly agree that it is not Aegon’s fault that he cannot control the council because of others’ actions, yet immediately disagree that it is not Rhaenyra’s fault that she is unable to control the council because of others’ bigoted opinions, is not exactly the take anyone thinks it is.

[juniorfor2]

Genuinely cannot with all the people who are like “why does the fandom ship incest so much, it’s so weird and I’m uncomfortable with it,” like girl, if you care that much then GRRM’s works are not for you in the slightest. It’s HUGE in his books, most of all Fire & Blood, I don’t know what you were expecting.

Obviously yes, incest is not ok in real life (excepting a few incredibly odd scenarios), no one is advocating for that in real life. You don’t even have to LIKE the incest ships. But don’t come into one of the biggest incest series and its fandom and insult people who ship the incest, especially when the author himself ships it. If it’s not for you, then go read or watch something else, GRRM isn’t about to stop just because you didn’t see what you were getting yourself into.

[juniorfor2]

I keep seeing people, even those supporting Team Black, say that Rhaenyra really shouldn’t have had bastards, because it would “disrupt the realm and will cause problems,” and it’s irritating me, because it is ignorant of GRRM’s ENTIRE POINT about the Velaryon boys.

It NEVER mattered whether or not Jace, Luke, or Joff were bastards. They could have been as true born as any true born could be, from the best and most noble family, and it wouldn’t have mattered. They would ALWAYS be called bastards. Whether Rhaenyra married Daemon or Laenor or Harwin or Jason Lannister or Cregan Stark, they would be called such in every scenario.

If Rhaenyra had married Daemon, guess what, they would be bastards because Daemon was married to Rhea before and who cares about annulments or whatever, or they MUST have been conceived out of wedlock, or they’d be as cruel as Maegor and couldn’t be allowed to rule. Oh, but what if she married Laenor and had true born kids with silver hair and a darker skin color? Guess what, she actually had them with Corlys because Laenor couldn’t get it up - OR, they are Laenor’s kids but that means they’ll also be gay and turn the Keep into a brothel, which obviously can’t be allowed to happen. She marries Harwin? They don’t look Targaryen, and are actually Strongs by name, and really Rhaenyra probably invited other men into their bed and had their children, can’t allow them to take over. She marries Cregan Stark? Same thing, and having a king who keeps to Northern gods would be blasphemy - and the kids aren’t true born because the marriage vows weren’t by the Faith, and what if they keep to the northern gods as well??? No way. She marries Jason Lannister? Once again, should be Lannisters, don’t look like Targaryens, and can’t allow such a power-hungry man to take over. Even if she had married GWAYNE FUCKING HIGHTOWER, the narrative would still be that Rhaenyra is such a whore that she must have tried to go behind his back and have bastards.

Do you see how no matter who she marries, you could still accuse Jace, Luke, and Joff of being bastards, or non-Targaryens by their looks and mother? Do you see how you can cast any narrative you want if you try hard enough, regardless of the truth? DO YOU SEE WHAT GRRM’S POINT IS NOW????? DO YOU SEE THAT IT NEVER MATTERED WHETHER THEY WERE TRUEBORN OR BASTARDS IN TRUTH, BECAUSE THE GREENS WOULD CALL THEM BASTARDS NO MATTER WHAT?

Even if the Velaryon boys were bastards, what problems would it cause if the ENTIRE REALM believes they’re legitimate? What then? What happens when no one cares about the truth, because Rhaenyra, Laenor, Coryls, Rhaenys, and Viserys ALL said the kids were legitimate? What happens when the boys are so diplomatic and good that the lords don’t have a reason to revolt against them specifically? What happens when Rhaenyra and Daemon and Laena raise their children so well that they love each other without animosity or belief that they should usurp one another? What happens then?

I’m about to give you the most shocking answer of your life, so please bear with me -

It’s nothing.

Nothing happens.

I know right, none of ya’ll can believe it. Too shocking to be true.

Yet somehow, if we all just read the fucking book, it becomes pretty obvious that this is exactly what happened. Rhaenyra had 53 houses to Aegon’s 28, which clearly meant her being a woman or having bastards didn’t affect much. In fact, Alicent and Otto failed so badly at convincing everyone of their story, that Criston Cole, one of their biggest supporters, couldn’t even keep it straight (although I suppose that’s not saying much, considering how stupid all of them were).

And somehow, somehow, Aegon is never once even mentioned hating his elder brothers and wishing to start a succession crisis. Because it’s almost like he loved his family, and was so traumatized and depressed by losing them that he never recovered. Crazy how that works. Crazy how families can actually love each other.

The Velaryon boys being bastards never mattered. They didn’t give Rhaenyra a single problem, because they never were a problem. GRRM’s point wasn’t “bastardy matters and we should all make decisions and opinions based on it,” it was “bastardy is a social construct that anyone can be labeled with if you try hard enough, so maybe we shouldn’t be making decisions based on such a flimsy, thrown around label.” There’s a bit more to it if you then relate the message to Rhaenyra and the patriarchy, but that’s the main essence of it.

Does that it explain it enough? Is the message finally through? Cause it seemed pretty clear from GRRM, yet somehow almost nobody got it, and I’ll never know how.

[juniorfor2]

I am so confused as to why Orwyle is portrayed as such a good and kind man in the show, even though GRRM is sooo blatant about how much Orwyle tried to cover himself. I’d usually think it’s because the writers have a Team Green bias, but it’s not anywhere near overt enough to suggest that. It’s like they forgot.

Which is insane if they did, cause GRRM was way too over the top on him. I mean it was just a constant, “…so Orwyle often tried to make himself look better…see this thing is questionable cause Orwyle sometimes makes things up…Orwyle was just making him and the Greens look nice here…if you’ve never heard about Orwyle, I’ll give you some facts about how much he changed stuff…” and on and on and on. I swear every time he was mentioned, GRRM felt like he just had to give a disclaimer about him.

So I don’t understand why he’s written so nicely here. Sure, he wasn’t exactly noticeable for much, but we know he believed in male primogeniture, which should have told the writers to include at least something for him. But he’s got essentially no personality besides “stereotypical maester.”

Is it because he’s black? Is that HotD’s method for black characters? They just copy paste all black characters with no personalities and put them in different jobs? Cause it’s really, really seeming like it.

[juniorfor2]

what do you think of book!Rhaenyra? And Alicent?

Hello Anon. That’s a bit of a vague question, so I’ll answer it as broadly as I can and hope that I answer whatever you want to know.

I certainly like Rhaenyra and Alicent’s book counterparts far more than their show counterparts, if mostly for consistency’s sake. Both of them were also far more willing to take power, which was far better to see than HotD’s “all women are peaceful” type theme.

Rhaenyra, tbh, is a bit vague in the book, and that’s purposeful. GRRM doesn’t give us a lot to go on about her actual personality, because it would otherwise make the purpose of the Dance’s narrative - questioning why women are framed the way they are in history - a bit pointless and just too easy to figure out. We do at least know she loves to be fashionable, she seems to be a good mother, she’s quite determined in her want for the throne, and is probably closer to the older Valyrians, before Jaehaerys and Alysanne assimilated so much with the Faith. From there, almost everything else is dubious. I think we can assume that at least she was entitled, spoiled, and probably viewed herself as above the small folk, because that’s how most of the nobility viewed themselves and GRRM doesn’t try to separate her from this. The extent of this though, is rather unknown, because once Viserys died, Eustace essentially went on a spree of lying about her - just about every time he’s mentioned talking about Rhaenyra in King’s Landing, the information is so contradictory to the point of absurdity.

I personally like more of what Rhaenyra represents on a thematic level, because she has such a big narrative theme across the books. Her connection to the Amethyst Empress - both are overthrown by their brothers, one’s death brings the first Long Night, the other’s brings the death of the dragons - is incredibly important, especially for Dany’s story. The fact that a woman’s usurpation and death brought about the end of the dragons, while Daenerys, a woman, brings them back to life, is perhaps one of the best themes and connections that GRRM has made in all of his series. Rhaenyra is probably my favorite character in F&B just for that.

As for Alicent, I would never say I like her, but I do respect her in some regards. Just like Rhaenyra, she clearly wanted power, and was willing to do just about everything to get it - even if that means beefing with a 10 year old at 19, and then a 5 year old at 35ish. She was certainly committed.

Alicent is one of those characters I hate because she was willing to keep her own sex inferior to men, but I also respect because she clearly wants to rule as much as possible. Alicent is not in Rhaenyra’s position - she is not the eldest of Otto (at least I’m pretty sure) and Otto himself is not an inheritor of anything. That meant Alicent could only gain power by marrying the king, or influencing her son, and it’s pretty clear that’s exactly what she meant to do. She wielded an unprecedented amount of power as Queen - power that even Alysanne never acquired - and even once Dowager Queen she herself called the Green Council and ruled over how things would go. As far as female figures in F&B go, she was probably one of the most powerful.

On a personal level of course, I don’t like her. The bastardphobia was long recorded and known, which was disgusting. Considering how much of a bully she was as well, she’s just rather terrible as a person. I can’t really think of a personable, redeeming quality for her. She got herself into her situation, treated everyone terribly, and then had the audacity to act like her sons’ lives meant more than Rhaenyra’s, even as she begged for mercy. I just can’t like her that much.

Hope that answers your question.

[juniorfor2]

Youth, Amatodivergence, and Buckets

The thing about young people identifying with the a-spectrum: Sexuality and orientation are very now-based things; there's nothing wrong with a child identifying as one thing or another, so long as it's accurate to your current state.

It's like you have a bucket, right? You leave this bucket outside in the off chance it will fill with some rain. Well, right now, your bucket is empty, so you can say, "hey, my bucket is empty!" There's nothing wrong with this statement, it's entirely accurate. And some people might say, "well, your bucket is going to fill with water eventually, just give it time!" And maybe this will be true, but it doesn't mean you can't call your bucket empty. Because it is empty right now! And—who knows—maybe in a while, your bucket will fill up, and you will say, my bucket is no longer empty, or, maybe in a while, you'll realize your bucket's been sitting under a roof all along, or you live in a desert, and it will never fill up. Or maybe you'll have a bucket that fills, but the water evaporates, and you follow the pattern, and you say, "sometimes, my bucket is full."

The thing is, regardless of what you think is going to happen, right now, your bucket is empty, and as long as you're aware that maybe in a while, it might start to rain, there's nothing wrong with identifying with that. Because you're right: your bucket is empty, at least for now <333

[juniorfor2]

I’ve seen too many posts on Rhaenyra ‘continuing the cycle of Viserys’ weakness’ or ‘being a bad mother’ without considering the bad writing of House of the Dragon and I am fed up with it. Rhaenyra’s motherhood being stripped from her was nothing more than ignorant and (at times) malicious writing, it is not a true aspect of her character.

First, considering the “parallel” between Viserys and Rhaenyra - where neither truly support their heir’s position - it should be pretty apparent that this wasn’t intentional. The writers clearly had NO understanding of how they wrote Viserys, which in turn meant they didn’t understand how they wrote Rhaenyra. Even back in Season 1, consider the fact that it was the fandom that noticed how weak Viserys was in supporting Rhaenyra, there was little to no framing of this at all from the show itself. He’s portrayed as a man who wished for his family to get along, but failed because they refused to do so - not because of his lack of decision making.

In Episode 8, he’s desperately trying to bring his family together one last time, and he is portrayed as someone who is not at fault; regardless of the fact that he was clearly much too late to change anything, this is a heroic act. Viserys is not at fault, it was Alicent who misheard him, the council who usurped Rhaenyra. Viserys was a ‘good’ man, and the weak and politically terrible attempts he made to secure her succession are instead framed as strong and wise decisions.

Even back in the earlier episodes, this is obvious. When he sends Rhaenyra out on her tour for a husband, this is made out as Viserys helping her. Rhaenyra is terrified of marriage and the childbed, but his ignorance of such isn’t considered at all by the show. And when he sends off Otto, this is shown as an amazing decision that showed his clear protectiveness of Rhaenyra - even though he then took away her choice, sold her off to a man who would have a hard time giving her children, and took away one of the only family members she felt she could rely on. Truly incredible.

And even further back, when Viserys is stubbornly acting as if nothing is wrong during the carriage ride to the hunt, this is framed as Rhaenyra being difficult, not Viserys’ lack of consideration for her feelings. The show had very little idea of who they made Viserys out to be.

In Episode 10, this idea becomes more forceful through Rhaenyra’s sovereignty.

“Rhaenyra is very much her father’s daughter…the way she approaches her duties as sovereign is much more in line with Viserys” - Ryan Condal, Inside the Episode

Viserys is not viewed as weak. He’s a “peaceful” and “good” ruler, one who should be emulated. Season 2 not only confirms this, but also encourages it.

“Do you never think of your father? His…forbearance, his…judiciousness, his…his dignity.” - Otto Hightower, S02E03

“You sound like my father.” - Rhaenyra to Daemon, S02E08

This means that the idea that Rhaenyra’s parenting is a result of Viserys’ is nonexistent. How can her parenting be weak when her father’s wasn’t either? This is a parallel that comes from the fandom, it has no real meaning in the story. That’s not to say the writers weren’t putting Rhaenyra in a situation where her parenting could be questioned - because they were - but this is not a true parallel, it does not exist to affect or even foreshadow the plot.

Rhaenyra does not continue this cycle of weakness. In fact, if the writers or the fandom understood the relationship between Viserys & Alicent’s family, and Rhaenyra & Daemon’s family, they would have understood that Rhaenyra would break any cycle created.

This brings me to the next point - Rhaenyra is not a bad mother. She is being stripped of her motherhood, yes, but she is not a bad one.

Regardless of book or show, it is clear that Rhaenyra raised a good family. In the book Jace, Luke, and Joffrey are noble, caring, and perfect as any man in Westeros could be. Aegon as well, kept constantly by Rhaenyra’s side, is noted to be a good person, even if traumatized. And with no other consistent parenting figure, GRRM clearly credits this to Rhaenyra. The fact that every one of the children she raised turned out so well was not unintentional writing.

When the Prince of Dragonstone took his dragon back into the cold autumn sky, he did so with the knowledge that he had won three powerful lords and all their bannermen for his mother. Though his fifteenth nameday was still half a year away, Prince Jacaerys had proved himself a man, and a worthy heir to the Iron Throne.

His brother Lucerys agreed. “Our uncle calls us Strongs, but when the lords see us on dragonback they will know that for a lie. Only Targaryens ride dragons.” Mushroom tells us the Sea Snake grumbled at this, insisting the three boys were Velaryon, yet he smiled as he said this…“My lord, I am not free to marry,” he replied. “I am betrothed to my cousin Rhaena.”

Prince Joffrey, three-and-ten, donned squire’s armor and begged the queen to let him ride to the Dragonpit and mount Tyraxes. “I want to fight for you, Mother, as my brothers did. Let me prove that I am as brave as they were.”

“There will be no progress.” [Aegon] declared… “I mean to give the smallfolk peace and love and justice.”

And when it comes to protecting her children - well, there is no doubt that she supported their ascension.

Ser Vaemond Velaryon, protested that the inheritance by rights should pass to him…on the grounds that Rhaenyra’s sons were bastards sired by Harwin Strong. The princess was not slow in answering this charge. She dispatched Prince Daemon to seize Ser Vaemond, had his head removed, and fed his carcass to her dragon, Syrax.

“Bastard blood, shed at war,” Alicent replied… The Dowager Queen’s words only fanned the flames of Rhaenyra’s wroth. “I will hear no more lies,” she warned. “Speak again of bastardy, and I will have your tongue out.”

In the show, while these events are somewhat removed/haven’t happened yet, they are somewhat present in S1. Rhaenyra drags herself through the Red Keep minutes after childbirth to ensure Joffrey is safe by her side. She threatens Aemond to keep her son safe, and takes a dagger to the arm to keep Alicent from harming him. When it came to Luke’s succession being threatened, she was willing to beg her father to protect her and her children. She gives a small nod to Daemon, asking him to take Vaemond’s head. She clearly does her best to protect her children in Season 1.

Rhaenyra, also unlike Viserys, ensures her children all love each other. While she had a terrible relationship with her own half-siblings in part because Viserys never cared to ensure Alicent couldn’t influence them against Rhaenyra, the half-sibling children of Rhaenyra clearly do not feel the same animosity.

The Prince of Dragonstone also had a care for the safety of his half-brothers, Aegon and Viserys, aged nine and seven. Their father, Prince Daemon, had made many friends in the Free City of Pentos during his visits there, so Jacaerys reached across the narrow sea to the prince of that city, who agreed to foster the two boys until Rhaenyra had secured the Iron Throne.

Viserys’ return did much to lessen the king’s loneliness as well. As a boy, Aegon had worshipped his three elder half-brothers.

Rhaenyra is not a continuation of Viserys. She is his opposite. She ensures her sons grow up kind and noble, unlike Viserys’ sons who grow callous and cruel to all. She protects her sons from threats of succession, unlike Viserys who sought to please both Rhaenyra and Alicent, putting her in danger. She ensures all her children grow up as one family with no wish to overthrow one another, whereas Rhaenyra’s own half siblings did usurp her. It is very clear in the book that Rhaenyra raised and protected her children in the way Viserys never truly did for her.

Now, in House of the Dragon, the writers changed this aspect of her in two ways in Season 2: by removing her children from her side, and by making Rhaenyra choose the throne over her children.

In the first one, this is easily seen when Rhaenyra willingly sends off all of her children to the Vale. Rather than have this orchestrated by Jacaerys, she sends them off herself, and says that she cannot be a mother to them. To add to this, Rhaenyra hardly has any time with the children, leaving the scenes between them rather cold. We also see the way that Jace, Joffrey, Aegon, and Viserys do not mix. They are not in the same scenes most of the time, or they do not interact with one another.

This was mostly just because Condal only cared to develop the Team Green kids over Team Black’s, but it was also set up in order to make the next change easier - and to make sure the audience wouldn’t question it.

The second change was deliberate, and intended to take away Rhaenyra’s motherhood. When they created the dragonseed situation, they specifically gave it to Rhaenyra to carry out in order to put her in a position between power and her children. As if somehow she could not come to a compromise.

She can have the throne or the children, not both.

This show has a serious problem with female autonomy and illegitimate children, so this was done for a reason. To portray bastards as some sort of “sin” that must be given up in order to gain something “righteous.” In the books they cause her 0 problems - the Greens usurped her because of misogyny, the bastardy was simply their cover up that no one else cared to believe, even on their own team.

Ser Criston Cole spoke up. Should the princess reign, he reminded them, Jacaerys Velaryon would rule after her. “Seven save this realm if we seat a bastard on the throne.” He spoke of Rhaenyra’s wanton ways and the infamy of her husband. “They will turn the Red Jeep into a brothel. No man’s daughter will be safe, nor any man’s wife. Even the boys…we know what Laenor was.”

This is changed in the show, where the children are the problem, not the misogyny. This much has been clear throughout both seasons, but it is actively encouraged in Season 2, where the writers’ bigotry and hatred for Team Black was let loose.

They do not like Rhaenyra, and they don’t seem to particularly care for how much this characteristic of hers was loved by the audience. They also don’t like Jace, Luke, or Joff much because they are rather bastardphobic (how that exists now I don’t know, but this show has revealed just how many people believe it). So the writers indulged in their fantasies by taking away one of Rhaenyra’s best characteristics, and by portraying the Velaryon boys as uncompromisable obstacles to the throne just because of their birth. Therefore giving themselves a way to portray Rhaenyra as a narcissistic and religious woman who cares more about power than other people.

This is not Rhaenyra. This is the writers using her face to force in their own political and social ideas - just as they’ve done for Jace and Rhaenys. Rhaenyra’s unintentional parallel to Viserys means nothing, and is just a disguise the fandom made up to let the writers get away with their misogynistic writing. Rhaenyra was written as loving, protective mother, and to consider her otherwise is to engage in the writers’ misogyny, nothing else.

[juniorfor2]

Word of advice for anyone who hasn’t learned: if you think that you’ve made a point that is a tiny bit obscure but can easily be figured out, so much so that you think you can leave the actual point in the tags - that’s your likely neurodivergent brain not understanding that you’ve not made your point clearly at all, tell it to shut up.

Case in point:

me -

this person -

[juniorfor2]

Ok but you see, you’re still falling straight into my point. The FIRST thing you started to talk about was how she ruined Daemyra and the Targaryens, you don’t talk about single point about Nettles as a character, as an actual person. You should be able to love Nettles regardless of whether or not she’s Valyrian or not, regardless of whether or not she’s Daemon’s daughter or lover. Her parentage does not matter as an actual character trait.

If Nettles turned out of to be Valyrian, over half of her stans would turn on her. They would say she’s “just another example of Valyrian superiority, and GRRM couldn’t even leave black people out of it.” Because she only matters as long as people can hate on the Targaryens, she doesn’t matter as a person.

You have got to stop talking about Nettles like she only matters as long as you can use her to hate on other people. You need to be able to love her regardless of who she was born to. If you can’t do that, then you don’t actually like Nettles.

Ok, so for some reason I was under the assumption that Nettles’ most important part of the story in F&B was around racism and classism. Turns out I was wrong, my bad - it’s actually how a black character gets in between two white people. That’s absolutelyonehundredpercentnodoubt her most thematically important part of the story - it’s certainly not about the way she grew up, or how that upbringing cultivated her cleverness in claiming a wild dragon, or how she was constantly discredited by the maesters because she was black. Nope, it’s her (not even confirmed) love story.

I mean, I thought we were all mad Nettles was cut because it erased a thematically important character that showed that race obviously didn’t matter in order to claim/access incredible things. But for some reason, the FIRST thing I see on every post is that it was a terrible decision because it cut out Nettles’ potentially romantic relationship with a 50 year old white dude. And somehow that’s not racist.

Why is the not-even-confirmed part of her storyline the most important? Why is her love story the most important? Why is her getting between two white people the most important? What is it about that part of her storyline that’s so thematically needed? Because as far as I can see, if she turned out to be Daemon’s daughter, it STILL wouldn’t erase her importance. She would be just as needed, regardless of whether or not she was Daemon’s lover or daughter.

You know what did matter when she was cut out? The part that proved that race did not determine anything about inferiority/superiority. The part that said that a young, impoverished girl could do what no one else did - claim a wild dragon not only because of blood, but because of cleverness and patience. The part that proved that bastards were not born disloyal or cruel or dumb. The part where GRRM asks the reader to look past the maesters’ narrative, and question why they hate her so much. She’s not there for long, but she’s important. Her potential love story just doesn’t have anything to do with that importance.

[juniorfor2]

Ok, so for some reason I was under the assumption that Nettles’ most important part of the story in F&B was around racism and classism. Turns out I was wrong, my bad - it’s actually how a black character gets in between two white people. That’s absolutelyonehundredpercentnodoubt her most thematically important part of the story - it’s certainly not about the way she grew up, or how that upbringing cultivated her cleverness in claiming a wild dragon, or how she was constantly discredited by the maesters because she was black. Nope, it’s her (not even confirmed) love story.

I mean, I thought we were all mad Nettles was cut because it erased a thematically important character that showed that race obviously didn’t matter in order to claim/access incredible things. But for some reason, the FIRST thing I see on every post is that it was a terrible decision because it cut out Nettles’ potentially romantic relationship with a 50 year old white dude. And somehow that’s not racist.

Why is the not-even-confirmed part of her storyline the most important? Why is her love story the most important? Why is her getting between two white people the most important? What is it about that part of her storyline that’s so thematically needed? Because as far as I can see, if she turned out to be Daemon’s daughter, it STILL wouldn’t erase her importance. She would be just as needed, regardless of whether or not she was Daemon’s lover or daughter.

You know what did matter when she was cut out? The part that proved that race did not determine anything about inferiority/superiority. The part that said that a young, impoverished girl could do what no one else did - claim a wild dragon not only because of blood, but because of cleverness and patience. The part that proved that bastards were not born disloyal or cruel or dumb. The part where GRRM asks the reader to look past the maesters’ narrative, and question why they hate her so much. She’s not there for long, but she’s important. Her potential love story just doesn’t have anything to do with that importance.