#the way the showrunners KNOW what they're doing. the way they KNOW this will HURT the lesbians and assorted girl/girl-kissers ✊🏼😫

[beefcake-penguin]

If anyone needs me: I'll be sobbing about fictional girl-kissers until further notice 💪🏼😑

[racefortheironthrone]

Hi- er, this is my first-ever writer's strike, how does one not cross a picket line in this context? I know how not to do it with things like Amazon and IRL strikes, but how does it apply to media/streaming?

Hi, this is a great question, because it allows me to write about the difference between honoring a picket line and a boycott. (This is reminding me of the labor history podcast project that's lain fallow in my drafts folder for some time now...) In its simplest formulation, the difference between a picket line and a boycott is that a picket line targets an employer at the point of production (which involves us as workers), whereas a boycott targets an employer at the point of consumption (which involves us as consumers).

So in the case of the WGA strike, this means that at any company that is being struck by the WGA - I've seen Netflix, Amazon, Apple, Disney, Warner Brothers Discovery, NBC, Paramount, and Sony mentioned, but there may be more (check the WGA website and social media for a comprehensive list) - you do not cross a picket line, whether physical or virtual. This means you do not take a meeting with them, even if its a pre-existing project, you do not take phone calls or texts or emails or Slacks from their executives, you do not pitch them on a spec script you've written, and most of all you do not answer any job application.

Because if this strike is like any strike since the dawn of time, you will see the employers put out ads for short-term contracts that will be very lucrative, generally above union scale - because what they're paying for in addition to your labor is you breaking the picket line and damaging the strike - to anyone willing to scab against their fellow workers. GIven that one of the main issues of the WGA are the proliferation of short-term "mini rooms" whereby employers are hiring teams of writers to work overtime for a very short period, to the point where they can only really do the basics (a series outline, some "broken stories," and some scripts) and then have the showrunner redo everything on their lonesome, while not paying writers long-term pay and benefits, I would imagine we're going to see a lot of scab contracts being offered for these mini rooms.

But for most of us, unless we're actively working as writers in Hollywood, most of that isn't going to be particularly relevant to our day-to-day working lives. If you're not a professional or aspiring Hollywood writer, the important thing to remember honoring the picket line doesn't mean the same thing as a boycott. WGA West hasn't called on anyone to stop going to the movies or watching tv/streaming or to cancel their streaming subscriptions or anything like that. If and when that happens, WGA will go to some lengths to publicize that ask - and you should absolutely honor it if you can - so there will be little in the way of ambiguity as to what's going on.

That being said, one of the things that has happened in the past in other strikes is that well-intentioned people get it into their heads to essentially declare wildcat (i.e, unofficial and unsanctioned) boycotts. This kind of stuff comes from a good place, someone wanting to do more to support the cause and wanting to avoid morally contaminating themselves by associating with a struck company, but it can have negative effects on the workers and their unions. Wildcat boycotts can harm workers by reducing back-end pay and benefits they get from shows if that stuff is tied to the show's performance, and wildcat boycotts can hurt unions by damaging negotiations with employers that may or may not be going on.

The important thing to remember with all of this is that the strike is about them, not us. Part of being a good ally is remembering to let the workers' voices be heard first and prioritizing being a good listener and following their lead, rather than prioritizing our feelings.

[lemotmo]

Some of them clearly got the point of Tim's call-out.

Q. What did you make of Tim's interview? I realize the bulk was Lonestar but the fandom stuff was interestingly phrased. The fact that so many people involved with the show, and now the showrunner himself, are openly discussing how bad things are cannot be a good sign. I know we had some fans who were saying we could 'bully' Tim and the show into giving us more Tommy but I think that was a massive mistake in hindsight. I think certain people got carried away and went way too far. Weather their intentions were ever bad or not I just think some people took the bullying idea too far. I'm a little worried we may not see Tommy at all now.

A. The bullying idea was always going to be a massive mistake. Normally you can take Tim's interviews with a bit of 'lol, why is he so dramatic' because he's not immune to getting his feelings hurt, and using his interviews to tell people that. In this case though it was definitely a direct callout. I have been here from the beginning and the show has never experienced anything close to what they have experienced this off-season. It's one thing to root for a particular show ship it's another thing entirely to openly send, and openly encourage others, to send hate to the cast and creators of a show. Then those same fans dragged the lighting director, director of photography, show directors and professional media members who have covered the show for years into their bullying game as well. It was insane, pathetically immature behavior. At times it was also incredibly disturbing. And every single bit of it can be traced back to the cameo videos. The second the storyline they were paying to be told didn't match the storyline we were actually watching they revolted.

And unfortunately because I think Tim, and ABC, just didn't think they were anything worth paying attention to initially, he was allowed to do them way too long. The more he did the more obsessed with him that particular group of people became. This has nothing to do with 911. Those people aren't at all interested in 911. Their entire interest is Lou and Lou alone. It's a small group of people. A small sick group of people who created a bunch of separate accounts in order to appear to be more people than they actually are (and they were stupid enough to openly admit that is what they did). Then that small group of people got together and from every single one of their many accounts they attacked as a group. They started with Oliver. They pointed out that Oliver wasn't interacting with Lou or engaging with any of them, or B/T content, and decided, at least initially, that he was solely to blame for B/T not getting the attention they thought it deserved, again the Buck part they don't care about. They were upset that they weren't seeing more of Tommy and they blamed Oliver for that. Suddenly Oliver was being tagged in posts that were calling him unprofessional, immature, bratty, selfish, and because of course, homophobic (they're really not a bright group of people). However instead of taking their bait and engaging with them, Oliver, rightly, blocked them. Meaning they needed a new target. Briefly it became Tim because their moronic leader screenshot a message she sent him that he, stupidly, responded to. She took that and spun and ENTIRE relationship theory and spread it through her many accounts. Tim then admitted in another comment that he actually didn't know what she was talking about but didn't want to be rude by continuing to ignore her so he responded to her. He then said that was a mistake and he wouldn't be responding to anything else. And he hasn't (she should be very embarrassed by his interview today because he may as well have used her name). And the show also continued to not align with her/their theory and they got more upset. Then found a new target.

Throughout the season Oliver did what Oliver has always done. Oliver posted, liked and promoted Eddie/Buddie/Buckley Diaz family content. He has always done this. This was nothing new. But it infuriated Lou's fans and they turned their anger on Ryan. Suddenly Eddie was the worst character in the history of television. He was an abuser (to Buck especially), he was a user (of Buck especially). He was a terrible friend (to Buck especially). Depending on the day he was either a deadbeat dad or obsessed with his kid in an unhealthy way (they couldn't ever really decide which way to go on this one. That opinion was dependent on how the poster felt about Chris). When that attack didn't really get the attention they were begging for, they changed direction and made it personal. Post after post, that Ryan was always tagged in, calling him racist, a deadbeat dad, an asshole, unprofessional, manipulative and controlling of Oliver (wtf, god they really are a stupid group of people), a whore (I actually read that one myself, it was a trip), a terrible actor that only has a job because Tim thinks he's hot. And so on and so on. At first Tommy didn't kiss Eddie because Ryan is homophobic and refused to do the storyline, then Tim, very publicly, corrected that lie so Lou's fans had to pivot and said Lou actually refused to do the Eddie storyline because he knows Ryan isn't a good guy ( a special kind of crazy that makes me need to drink ). Then they sunk to their sickest, lowest, most pathetic, vile, disturbing, and inexcusable moment. Ryan did a podcast where he discussed his past mental health struggles and suicidal thoughts. They went into the comments on the podcast and told Ryan that they wish he had committed suicide. That if he had killed himself then Tommy could have his screen time and they wouldn't have to see Buck have scenes with Eddie. Not only did they leave those comments (the podcast has since deleted most of them, thankfully), they sent similar messages directly to Ryan on Instagram. Knowing he would see them. It was appalling and very, very disturbing. The cameo videos ended fairly shortly after. These people are sick. They get zero sympathy or understanding from me. It's a fucking television show. Tommy is not a real person. Ryan is a real person.

As for maybe not seeing Tommy at all, I would imagine conversations have certainly taken place. He was never sticking around permanently. The conversations most likely involved deciding if they needed him at all, and if they did, how many actual scenes did they need him for. I don't work on the show, but if they decided he wasn't necessary to the storyline, and they could get away with his stuff happening off screen I would imagine he's been dismissed. They probably decided they needed him at least for a few scenes though. Unless other things happened behind the scenes we're not aware of he will be around the first few episodes at least and then and probably no more. He can take his tiny army with him when he leaves. No one will miss them.

Okay, just ... yeah, all of this. It's crazy how these people did all of these horrible things in the name of... a ship? I mean, what?

I've been in fandom for a very long time and I have been shipping characters for a very long time, but I've never seen behaviour like this. Behaviour where people think they are justified to bully, harass and vilify the actors playing a character on a TV-show. To the point where they get blocked by the actors and crew.

I don't understand what would drive someone to do that? I genuinly don't.

These are the kind of people that need to put down their phones forever, go outside and touch all the grass they can touch. After that they should never watch 911 again. If you don't like something, just walk away. I have done that before. Shows don't always go where a fan wants it to go.

Look. I want Buddie. You all know that. I'm 99% certain that we're getting Buddie in season 8. But, if it turns out we won't, which is always a possibility since I don't know what Tim is cooking up, I will be disappointed, but I won't start spewing hatred all over the place. I will just take a step back and focus on other things in life. I'll keep shipping Buddie and read fanfiction. I'll be fine here in my Buddie corner of the Internet with my Buddie mutuals.

So yeah, this is insane behaviour to me. I truly don't get it.

Thanks Nonny for dropping this in my inbox!

Heads up! For anyone who is giving me the shifty eyes for reposting these anon OP updates instead of reblogging. Don't get mad at me. There is a reason for it and it's all done with consent from the OP. You can find out more about that here.

Remember, no hate in comments or reblogs. Let's keep it civil and respectful. Thank you.

If you are interested in more of the anonymous OP’s posts, you can find all of their posts so far under the tag: anonymous blog I love.

[wenellyb]

9-1-1 Season 7 Episode 4: Was Buck lying when he said he was trying to get Tommy's attention?

I'm a little frustrated about the people who said that Buck was lying when he said he was trying to get Tommy's attention because according to them, he was trying to get Eddie's attention not Tommy's, and the argument they use is the gym scene...

I'm frustrated because I want to ask them: "Have you guys never watched a TV show, ever?"

TV showrunners have different way of structuring their episodes, some episodes are set up to be emotionnal, some are set up to be dramatic or romantic, some are heavy on the action scenes and some are meant to get a surprised reaction by introducing a plot twist the audience didn't see coming. It can be a big plot twist like the finale of the 1st season of the Good Place or it can be a smaller one like in this episode of 911.

And whenever they want to set up a plot twist, the writers will put small hints along the way, that are not obvious right away but will contribute to the "ah" moment when everything clicks into place after the plot twist is finally revealed.

The whole point of the episode was for people to think Buck was trying to get Eddie's attention because he was jealous of his best friend spending time with someone else and BAM, it's revealed that in fact it was the "someone else" Buck had been interested in all along.

And if you look closely, there are clues throughout the episode showing that it was about Tommy all along.

1. Buck asking Tommy for a tour.

At first we think that Buck was just testing the waters and thinking about switching jobs but at the end of the episode Buck reveals it's because he was trying to get Tommy's attention.

Moreover, a lot of people assume Buck was disappointed because Tommy left with Eddie and he was jealous about Eddie. But if you pay attention, Buck's smile drops the moment Tommy turns him down for drinks, and that was even before he saw Eddie in the car.

2. Buck's rant to Maddie

Buck was complaining about Eddie spending time with Tommy and even going to a basketball game with him.

And later when he talked to Maddie after accident accidentally injuring Eddie, he admitted he did it because he felt left out and was trying to get "his" attention.

But in retrospective, he never specified who he was trying to get attention from. He could have meant Eddie or Tommy.

And it's confirmed that he was indeed talking about Tommy when he says this.

3. The gym scene

We all assumed Buck was trying to get Eddie's attention when he was at the gym because he wanted to spend more time with him. But if Buck had wanted to hang out with Eddie, he would have just asked, they're best friends. Buck ordered the basket Ball because he wanted to be invited to the basketball game because Tommy would be there. Same for the karaoke. Buck never had a problem with asking Eddie to hang out, the only differentiating factor here is Tommy.

Why would Buck suddenly be so awkward around Eddie? He was trying to get an invite so he could see and when it didn't work he asked Chimney.

4. The basketball game

Buck admitted that he accidentally hurt Eddie because he was trying to get Tommy's attention.

5. The "big reveal"

Up until the very end of the episode we were made to believe Buck was being jealous of his best friend having a new best friend.

Even Tommy thought so.

It's not until Buck reveals he wanted to get to know Tommy and was trying to get his attention that everything clicks into place for the audience and we understand why Buck was acting like that.

We weren't watching someone being jealous over his best friend spending time with someone else but someone acting like a fool because he had a crush.

TL:DR: Buck was trying to get Tommy's attention all along. The show just set up the episode in a way that would lead to a plot twist, a "big" reveal and a romantic kiss.

What do you guys think? Was Buck trying to get Eddie's attention as well?

[my-mt-heart]

Thoughts on TBOC 202

I'm not going to do a full review of this episode because it would require a rewatch and frankly I have no desire to rewatch anything more than Carol's clips online. Here are a few thoughts though...

Melissa McBride is amazing. She gives me goosebumps even when she's performing Carol's composed side. I never would've given this episode a try if it weren't for her (and if it weren't for @that-left-turn letting me know exactly when to tap out before Daryl's character went through the shredder AND if it weren't for the episode leaking early so I wouldn't have to give AMC my money for that unforgivable narrative choice). She and Carol deserved so much fucking better than a really heartfelt arc being upended by the carelessness in Daryl's arc.

Shoutout to Manish Dayal, who is a wonderful addition to the show despite Ash being whitewashed and made a victim of Zabel's gross misrepresentation of women as manipulative and weak for men.

Special shoutout to Clémence Poésy for still delivering strong performances despite her character being reduced to something straight of out of the "TV book of tricks" and for speaking out about it the only way women in the industry can. If only the men in charge understood the power of silence the way she and Melissa do. They'd be doing themselves and us a huge favor.

A sincere fuck you and how dare you to every man in power on this show who used Daryl for whatever personal agenda they had and ignored every fan (Daryl, Caryl, Rickyl, and GA alike) shouting and pleading with them since the S1 finale not to take away what made Daryl special. His loyalty. His unconventional masculinity. His devotion to Carol. His devotion to his family. He was a role model to so many men and women, a man of honor. He was supposed to be different from the toxic men many of his fans have had to face in their own lives. He was supposed to be the man who didn’t hurt them. But instead of acknowledging that he has, that he’s fully unrecognizable now, the male EPs kick fans while they're down. They gaslight them into thinking it's their fault for not understanding "art" when they see it and they tell us repeatedly that we're not welcome to our favorite characters anymore. Case in point, Zabel's entire SFX interview. Nicotero saying they don't write the show for the fans. Norman trying to cyberbully fans who are upset, or rather encourage his diehards to do it for him. Shame on all three of them and shame on AMC for letting them do whatever they want no matter how much it hurts their bottom line.

I believe it's possible to redeem Daryl, but only under a different showrunner who actually values his trajectory on the flagship show, understands his nuances, and respects his fans. In the meantime, I feel like I'm mourning him.

(Note: Gimple does not qualify as a different showrunner)

[ghenry]

Rewatched the Avatar TLA series with my partner recently, and fell in love with the world and characters all over again. I especially love the journey Zuko goes through the show as a character.

Zuko, son of Fire Lord Ozai. He seems pretty by-the-books at first as this angry villain, but something that makes him immediately unique for this kind of setting is his young age. He's barely older than Aang, our child protagonist.

"You're just a child." "Well, you're just a teenager!"

Although early on you start getting the idea that there's more nuance to him than this villain trying to incapacitate our protag, he shows some depth in his character here and there, usually through his uncle Iroh, a wise warrior that's there to aid and comfort his nephew, joining his banished trip on his own accord. While he's on the villain's side, it's worth noting he never hurts or intimidates innocent people, only ever fighting those already attacking or threatening him.

Even so, Zuko made it blatantly clear what his intents were. "I must capture the avatar to regain my honor." And he barely changed his mind about this throughout the entire first season, even when the two helped each-other out of hopeless circumstances, hinting that they're not meant to be sworn enemies.

"If we knew each-other back then, do you think we could've been friends too?"

Knowing the show and how it transpires across all 3 seasons, it's interesting seeing the intent the writers and showrunners had for these characters, and their hidden depth, all the way back in this first season. One of the finest examples would be Iroh sharing Zuko's history with fellow soldiers. A history which helps said soldiers --and in turn, the audience-- empathize with him.

Behind Zuko's scarred face is a story about a boy already feeling lost and unsure of himself, stumbling into a tragedy where his father --in sheer arrogance-- abused his son to a high degree in front of all his subordinates, in a heinous act he would call punishment.

Ever since then, he was banished to travel across the world to search for the avatar, a task his father felt was worthless, but was the same as leaving him out to die. This isn't the origin of a villain, but a downtrodden individual who couldn't find his place in life.

What Zuko called "honor" over and over again wasn't that, but his father's love. He already lost his mother, and instead yearned for his father's approval and affection. This culminated to his ultimate betrayal, siding with his sister and turning his back on his uncle, which lead to his imprisonment. During a crossroad and moment of insecurity, he threw his uncle Iroh to the wolves because he thought he would regain his honor and earn his right to be a part of his family once again.

Zuko would be welcomed back into his family, he retrieved what he thought was his honor --and what he thought was genuine love from his father.

"You have redeemed yourself, my son."

But even then, he still felt lost, alone, and without a sense of direction. Nothing changed, his soul still felt incomplete.

"For so long, I thought that if my dad accepted me, I'd be happy. My dad talks to me, he even thinks I'm a hero! Everything should be perfect, right? I should be happy now, but I'm not! I'm angrier than ever, and I don't know why!"

It took him a long time (about 2 and a half seasons) to realize he didn't need this sense of "honor" and what he was chasing was just a farce. His father only showed Zuko "love" when he seemed useful, an asset that was helping his fascist conquering of multiple nations by killing the Avatar.

All of this drew to an enthralling, terrifying, heart-wrenching moment between him and his father during the day of the eclipse. He used the minutes they could not fire bend as an opportunity to let out the truth and his own epiphany. He admitted that he never killed Aang --didn't even try, for that matter-- and that he's going to help him defeat his father's regime. Ozai immediately despised Zuko for this, proving his 'love' was conditional and hollow. And at that moment, as soon as the eclipse ceased, he attempted to kill his own son right then and there in a moment that never fails to draw tears out of me as soon as it happens.

Zuko survived his father's lethal attack, only by sheer will, and a lighting-redirection technique his uncle happened to teach him a while back, emphasizing how important Iroh is to him. Iroh is the father figure that truly loved Zuko unconditionally. Ozai, his biological father, could only grant him death. His uncle Iroh, at that moment, inadvertently granted him life.

And Zuko's story (mostly) ends in the middle of the 4-part finale. With the help of his friends, he tracked down Iroh who escaped from prison. The moment he sees his uncle, he breaks down as he's horribly ashamed of his actions, expecting Iroh to shun him as he feels he does not deserve his uncle's love after what he did to him.

"I was never angry with you . . . I was sad, because I was afraid you lost your way."

But Iroh doesn't hesitate to embrace him. Like I said, his love is unconditional. He knew Zuko wasn't evil, he was only being manipulated by the likes of his father and sister. He knew Zuko would find the right path, restore his own honor, and come back to him. It's such a beautiful moment and the soul-piercing conclusion to Zuko's story, a story they were building up since the literal first episode.

Of course, there's also Azula, his sister. She was considered a prodigy with her amazing fire bending abilities, mastering the skill of bending lightning, something only her father and uncle were able to do before her.

She was a spitting image of her father; fierce, manipulative, wrathful, the only thing she shared with her brother Zuko was their sense of determination. But we don't learn what really drives Azula until the finale. It's similar to Zuko. He felt incomplete without his father's love. While this was implied before the finale, Azula felt she was missing her mother's love.

While I think the argument could be made that this was just her own projection, it's important that this shows how --despite her more respected place in their family and nation-- she was just as broken and spiritually lost as Zuko. While Ozai showered his daughter with praise for all of her life, Azula felt her mother didn't love her, which ate away at her, deep inside. Much like Zuko, who felt he was fighting to earn his father's love.

Azula, to me, represents Zuko's future if he let his father manipulate him, just like Azula did to him. Would he have become this tyrannical fire lord if he just listened to his father, abandoned his inhibitions, and ensured his nation's regime? Maybe. But like Azula's interrupted crowning, it would have been shallow, lonely, and without any real sense of self-worth. Nothing to show for it but a broken mind.

Instead, Zuko became the fire lord on his own terms, and with the entire world in support of him, as he helped this quest for peace and balance across the nations. He earned his place in life through his own will, his own actions, and his amazing uncle who only wanted the best for him. He restored his honor himself, with lifelong friends by his side.

That's it, that's all I wanted to write about. This show rules.

[rey-jake-therapist]

Tea with Tolkien posted a really strange guide to how to ship haladriel on her Twitter account teawithtrop. She usually has good opinions but I don't know how to feel about this ... what are your thoughts?

You mean this?

Well my honest reaction to this "guideline" is to ask first : who does she think she is to tell shippers who loves who and how? What authority does she think she has to establish such "rules"? Even the showrunners, the director and the actors all have different opinions on the matter !

Also I find extremely hypocrite to say in the same stance : "Galadriel is in love with Halbrand but not Sauron, and Sauron's not in love with her, saying anything else is WRONG" and then conclude by saying that all interpretations are valid. Because if you genuinely think that all interpretations are valid, you don't publish such "Q & A" in the first place. You mind your own business and let people ship however they want without guilting them into thinking their interpretation is canonically wrong.

It seems kinda crazy to me that some folks want to police how people ship. It's not as if it was a death or life matter, no one's going to get killed or hurt because someone has a different interpretation of a relationship between fictional characters.

So my opinion on this is : this "guideline" has zero legitimacy, and you shouldn't care. There are no "wrong ways" or "right ways" to ship Galadriel and Sauron. If you want to believe they're in love, that's cool. If for you it's only one sided, it's cool too. If you want to believe this goes far beyond romance and that's what makes you obsessed with them (that's me btw), same !!

The only rules that should exist would be :

don't bully other shippers into shipping as you do

leave non shippers who don't see what you see alone.

Mind on your own business.

Period.

P.S : if you disagree with Tea and want to tell her, go ahead if you want, but for the love of Eru, please be POLITE and RESPECTFUL ! There are ways to express your disagreement without being a bully 🥰

[backjustforberena]

Do you feel like changing alyn and Addams’s ages changed the dynamic of corlys and rhaenys for the worst? I feel like with the being older, it feels like rhaelys is built on kinda a lie. But I understand that if they were the age that they were in the books, Jace and baela’s age, it wouldn’t look great either

It's a really hard question to answer because we don't know so much. We don't know what it actually means for Alyn and Addam to be older, in relation to Corlys and Rhaenys's marriage. We don't even know what age they are.

And we don't know what the plotline might've been like, had the showrunners chosen to make Alyn and Addam younger and that's a plotline with huge possibilities in terms of how you want to play it or write it, especially if the writers wanted to pretend they were Laenor's or make them Laenor's - it's just... it's not something we can compare because we don't have those strict examples to contrast against one another.

I imagine it might have hurt more because they'd have been conceived during the time we've got to know Corlys and Rhaenys, as opposed to happening during a time before the series is set. But I can't say anything for certain. We definitely wouldn't have the scenes that we have, if they weren't aged up. We wouldn't have the characters that we have, either.

I think the idea of it being "built on a lie" is dramatic. By which I mean, I don't feel that way, at all. I was actually surprised by how little it felt relevant to the relationship issues that Corlys and Rhaenys were having at the time of her death. But I'm also the sort of person who looks at things both outside and inside the narrative.

Eve and Steve did not know that Alyn and Addam were going to be cropping up. Neither had read the books, it wasn't pitched to them, so it came as a surprise in S2. All they had, in S1, to play was the fact that Corlys and Rhaenys loved each other. The producers told them nothing, and Steve has stated that he's yet to have a proper conversation or wrap his head around what might have been the circumstances in which Corlys has these children. Which suggests to me, that the show has yet to create a concrete scenario. And also that Ryan was being really quite crappy to the actors.

It's easy to look at that as those scenes in Series 1 then being "built on a lie": how could they be truthful, if the actors didn't have the whole story or information? It's unlikely that they would have been played exactly the same if they had known. Though, not impossible, certainly given the outspoken affection Steve and Eve have displayed in having the chance to play that romanticism.

I choose, and it's easier for my mind, to look at it another way. By removing that information (of the infidelity), it makes that information irrelevant.

So, the trust and the love and the respect and the relationship shown in those scenes are just the feelings that they have in those scenes and that is completely valid. If we now look at those scenes as times when Rhaenys is aware of all of this, then that's not stopped her or impeded her loving Corlys to the amount she shows in the whole of Season 01. The truth in those scenes is the way they are with each other. It's not cancelled out or sullied by past behaviours. It's simply that past behaviours are irrelevant.

I take all of this at face value because that's all we can do. It's what was played, it's what we get, it's what we have to work with. And it's actually also really hard to go back and fit any sort of theory or meta onto those scenes because the facts that we do have are pretty flipping dire. They're just muddy and simple and confusing. This is what we have, from the screen, and this is also what the actors know, so this is only what can be played:

At some unspecified time, Corlys has two children outside of his marriage with an unspecified woman in unspecified circumstances for an unspecified reason in an unspecified sort of relationship.

At some, also unspecified, time, Rhaenys finds out about these children in some unspecified way. She has an unspecified reaction to it.

Corlys and Rhaenys never speak of it. Corlys and Rhaenys have the marriage that we see on-screen.

Other things that are shown or can be assumed:

Corlys is greatly shamed by his actions and has built no relationship with these two sons at all and also has no relationship with the mother.

Rhaenys is confident that the affair was a long time in the past (she refers to the mother in past tense) and holds no fear of repetition. It is implied that she found out years ago, and has simply never met Alyn. The revelation for us, as an audience, is not a revelation for the character.

But, other than that. We have nada. Zip. So, how can we judge it? Let alone apply it to our overall picture of the marriage? We can choose to minimize it or catastrophise it, both are valid options. But my ultimate takeaway is that it's just... ineffectual. It's not a bombshell. It's not something that has ripped them asunder. Even if they've yet to work through it, it's not something that's destroyed them because the marriage and the love has continued for decades. And they do love each other. Fiercely.

If Rhaenys hadn't known, then perhaps we could feel betrayed because she would feel betrayed in that moment of discovery. But she did, and we don't get that moment of discovery and of betrayal. In all those scenes when Corlys held her in her arms and she worried about his life and he sought to reassure her and they smiled and grieved and stood together, she knew about this hidden part of his life.

Even going into S2, when Eve would have been aware of this plotline, we have these scenes of love still played: Rhaenys and Corlys having had sex, confiding in each other, taking care of each other, being physically intimate, having picnics etc etc. At some point, the affair and these children became irrelevant to how they conducted their marriage. Whether that's implying Rhaenys's forgiveness or Corlys's denial, is up to you. But for me, that makes everything we've seen utterly truthful.

I hope I've explained that well enough. If you want to follow up, please do. I'm still trying to work out my feelings on it all but I will continue to passionately support and enjoy this ship.

[shaunashipman]

The way all the first comments on insta are talking about how bad that break up was and even if it was going to happen they could have at least respected the characters (mind you be respectful about it unlike some we know who love bullying people) maybe abc should take note

i didn't check them all and there have been a lot more since i last went through, but i didn't see a single one that was any more rude than like, "that was really shitty". and of course a bunch of them have some dumbass buddie under it going "womp womp" like the children they are

like i've been calling tim and oliver cunts all day long, here, on tumblr, where they shouldn't be and if they're lurking it's their own fault for seeing stuff they don't want to. but my comment was about how hurt and disrespected the show and oliver made me feel. because there's a time and a place and acting like a twat on and official account is not going to do anything other than tell ppl you're a twat

unless you also send death threats to the showrunner and accuse the actor of being in love with his co-star and lie about him then cry when called out, if you do all that apparently you get just what you bitched for

[hislittleraincloud]

“You care more that she doesn't fit your perception of a young woman with a possible influence on her fans who doesn't "use" that power…..”

“Leave the girl alone and stop insulting her intelligence, integrity and take on the world.“

“She's just doing what she loves as her job. She lives her life and is not hurting anyone.”

Meanwhile she let her fans destroy her supposed “best friend” career and reputation and basically said he and his character wouldn’t be missed in her Vanity Fair interview or how she ignored their romcom they had together.

(I know OP is talking about her influence on politics and rightfully so, she could have a big impact on politics, just like how Taylor Swift’s influence and endorsement did.)

But she also has a big influence on how her fans act. And the fact that she doesn’t say anything on how they treated him and STILL treat him? And how they continuously insist that she’s gay even though she hasn’t said so? It’s disgusting and she rightfully deserves to be called out for her behavior.

I don’t give a flying fuck if all she does is care about her job, is a workaholic. The way you handle things in times of crisis or serious situations is a poor reflection of your character and self and she desperately needs to work on that, fire her PR team or both.

It’s truly changed the way I see her and I’m starting to not like Jenna as much as I used to. She’s become someone she isn’t.

If I recall, she said it is a "weird redirect" and that "with so many new characters, it will get lost", re: Xavier's absence. Which to me — again, I'm not a White stan, but I'm preeeeetty sure you are — just tells me they're pulling the whole DISTRACTIONDISTRACTIONDISTRACTION! game with that shitload of new characters, and Ortega is playing along. As EP she didn't seem too concerned about saving Ogawa's or the Watsons' jobs either, so...her powers much more likely than not don't go that far. She may be The Face and Burton might love working with her, but not all celebrity EPs are given that much power. Sometimes it's in name/title only, or are lighter in responsibilities than the ones who have to do all of the gruntwork.

But let's talk about those politics. Ortega comes from a conservative Roman Catholic background. Her book has a whole ass faith (religion) section. She was indoctrinated good, because that's how it is in a lot of Latino families. Her father is a cop, too...not just a businessman, as some websites love to say. He's still a cop, as of 2023.

Do people think Jenna's real wide on the left and subscribes to #ACAB? The girl was posting pro-cop/cop sympathy on her Facebook when she was a Disney teen. The Ortegas will always be on that side of the blue line, as well as on the side of Euro-colonization Jesus.

There's always some faith-based language saturating her mother's captions and comments, and Ortega has consistently stated that her mother is a very important figure in her life. Don't people who don't have faith or are non-believers comprehend those that do/are? I'm not sure that they do.

Well. We still have a few years to watch as she grows into real adulthood. I suppose we'll see how she continues to handle fame and the power that comes with it. Until then, I don't think we can blame her for anything surrounding the White situation, or the letting go of the others. She was more than likely told how the studio, the main showrunners, and the other actors should be handling it, since she's the big star of the show and can't be pissing off anyone else at the moment/souring people on such a lucrative IP (like Cynthia Erivo recently did).

[galstelperion]

tbh i dont get the whole drama about the way charlie answers haladriel-related questions. i think both antis and shippers are blowing it way out of proportion. the actors aren't the writers/directors, they can't know for sure where the story is headed to, so they have to be extra careful not to set up misleading expectations.

showing him thirst tweets about hot sauron is wrong as it could make him uncomfortable, but asking questions about haladriel is perfectly reasonable. haladriel isn't just a fanon, the romantic implications are clearly there, of course the interviewers will ask him about it. but he will answer vaguely and it's fine! i think we all need to relax. it would be much better if they asked these questions to the showrunners instead, though.

Will preface to say this is brought over from Twitter, addressing Charlie's more recent interviews, just so no one is confused...

View this post on Instagram

A post shared by Complex Pop (@complexpop)

Where do I even begin with this?

My first problem with it is the tweets they showed him were just extremely rude. Making him read backhanded compliments about the season, even if he took it in stride, is extremely unnecessary and quite frankly, disrespectful to the work he's put in as an actor.

In regards to Haladriel, I don't disagree with you completely anon! I think Haladriel questions, to an extent, are perfectly fine and reasonable. When you ask about where they're going in the show with these two characters, how certain things were thought up before doing them, what their perspective is on certain scenes and dynamics. These are normal questions that interviewers should ask!

However, what they're doing here is having him read a bunch of tweets from stan twt. On top of being a lazy interview idea, it is simply crossing a boundary into fandom spaces that very clearly makes him a bit squeamish, as he says at the beginning.

It's a slippery slope because most fans do not speak about these characters in online spaces with the intention of having the actors who play those characters see their thirst tweets about them. Or, at least, I hope you aren't doing that. This is our space and I don't think valuing his or even the showrunner's opinion on the ship over everything else is conducive to building a good fandom space. The ship, at the end of the day, is ours to build upon and extrapolate from.

As I said on Twitter:

Ships belong to fans. Wild concept but I don’t think we should give a fuck what the actors, showrunners, or directors think. We create our own canon in art, fics, discussion, etc. What happens in the show will hurt a lot less that way. Nobody’s allowed in this house except who we let in.

And I stand by this very deeply. Ships like Reylo have fandoms and bestselling authors that still stand today because they didn't value what was said in the source material over everything else, they built communities and their own narratives out of sheer spite against what the canon gave them.

[that-left-turn]

The richonne fans actually have lead the discussion on racism in the fandom and we pretend we don’t see it or reply with snark because we don’t really care. I am a vocal caryler on twitter who speaks against it and if you were there you would see that. We get drowned out by the others. There’s not a lot of us who speak against it over there. But it’s easier to ignore it to whine about not getting canon from simple gimple and Zabel. I found you because of your fic. That’s where I get my fix because we will never get it from those men. But that doesn’t mean the bad behavior in our fandom should be ignored. Sad.

I have no idea what Richonne fans do or not, apart from the people in my asks who tell me to stfu and add colorful insults to make their point. Educating people on why something is hurtful and how institutionalized prejudice works is a good thing. Calling each other names, not so much. Most people aren't taught about racism in school, just that "racism=bad" which isn't all that helpful in itself. That said, I don't think it's a competition between taking a stand against racism or misogyny. They go hand in hand more often than not and I'm capable of being angry about both injustices at once. I do "whine" about both things.

It's a mistake to think of Gimple as "simple." He's not a competent showrunner or studio exec, his writing is bad and he's an unpleasant person, but he's shrewd. He's been molding the franchise into reflecting his personal preferences for years, to the detriment of the shows and those who've worked on them. He has certain criteria for the people he hires and the ones who've predated his power of influence, he's done his best to shove out.

Getting canon is important. It's representation for middle-aged relationships which we get precious little of on TV. The 'older' couples we see are mostly supporting cast, there to be a foil for the problems the protagonist has; they're not the focal point of the show. Caryl are from a poor white background (Carol's grandma made her clothes and Daryl grew up in a shack/cabin) and the depiction of that social class is always dysfunctional and often criminal. That needs to change too and it could, if Caryl lead the way.

DA survivors finding love and being able to trust is also, again, something that deserves a spotlight. Abuse is shameful and humiliating, and debilitating. People who go through that in real life need the hope that Caryl can provide. They live in a very violent world, but they've found something good in each other, and the fans who have gone through similar experiences can also find the inner strength that these two characters have.

Story integrity. Audience respect. Discussion on the bad behavior of the men in charge of TWDU is important. I will always talk about racism (even if I lose followers and fic readers over it) and I will also always talk about misogyny and sexism. I know I haven't really gotten into ageism, but that's because my topics have largely been decided by "what's in my inbox." (Feel free to drop an ask. I'd love the opportunity to talk about 'fun things' too 🙃)

All these issues are the evil siblings of the fandom and the franchise. One isn't more pressing than the other and that's the reason why different factions shouldn't turn on each other. We need to lift each other up, as well as the characters and the women who play them. We won't get ahead by tearing each other down and that's why I try to focus on providing information rather than being angry at individuals who may behave badly.

When I was a kid, my mom always told me why she wanted me to do this or not do that, and it stuck with me, because she showed me respect as an individual of my own, even if I was a 5-year old. People are more likely to listen if you don't speak in anger, if you afford them their dignity and you're not authoritarian... and I haven't walked in anyone else's shoes. I don't know what they're going through, so I try to give the benefit of doubt as to people's motives for what they do/say. I'm not ignoring bad behavior. I try to counter it in my posts, even if I have minimal outreach. Change starts at grassroots level, you know? "Be like water making its way through cracks."

Thanks for reading my fic 🙏😊 I really appreciate that. I've been rewatching S11, so I can get back into writing Stick Figures, but it's not a season that makes you excited about its storytelling. Double edged sword since I need the little details as tie-ins to my 'red thread' arc.

[lover-of-mine]

I fully agree that it was a lot to have buck hurt eddie like that. Like I get why they did it cause let's be real if eddie had been able to walk it wouldn't have been Tommy at buck's door but I wish they'd go about it in another way...

On another note, do you think buck will analyse his whole relationship with his family and friends with his new found discovery (I still can't believe we have bi buck still feeling shaky omg) and also im sure you've gotten something similar asked but I kinda would like a reassurance well as close to one as I can get, but do you think that means we are headed toward buddie? Or will they be like hey at least you get this kinda thing?

Thank you for your posts they've been great and like I feel we all lived through this together and I'm thankfull for your takes :)

This is actually the first time I thought about them hurting Eddie as a plot device to stop him from reaching out occurred to me. I see it, I don't like it, but I see it.

Okay, yeah, I kinda think he will, finding out you're bisexual as an adult, specially when Buck did as well with women as he does, will be some cause for panic (I say this as someone who was good with men and only found out she was bi as an adult) about particular reactions of people around him (kinda terrified what this means for him with his parents about to come into town) because even if you know some of the people who love you will be supportive, is still a scary experience, even more if you've been trying to find this one thing about yourself for decades, so, yeah, I do believe he will be forced to reevaluate a lot of stuff in his life, and Tim and Oliver seem to be ready to try and tell this story right and I am super interested to see how this will go (I can't believe Bi Buck is real, it literally rewired my brain, I might be losing my mind because I need to sleep because I've been up for who knows how long because every time I try to sleep my brain goes BUCK IS BI and then I start freaking out about again)

I know a lot of you come to me for the logical side of it all to get some reassurance and I love that I can be this person, really, especially in moments like this, so, I love that you came here 🫶. But the buddie of it all, I don't see why they would make Buck queer and not go there with Buck and Eddie. I maintain what I've been saying, that the loft scene is gonna tell us if they are turning up the heat or if we are keeping the energy we had so far while Buck explores his own feelings about being bisexual, even more if we are gonna get 2 for 2 and they are planning on making Eddie demi (god imagine if they actually put a character like Eddie in the ace spectrum, I would die), because then you can use a Buck who's settled into being bisexual to drag the realization from Eddie, because this can cascade into Buck realizing what he's looking for is what he has with Eddie, and since men are an option now, he could look at their relationship and be like "oh so I needed to figure out that I like men, for me to realize that the love I want is with this man" and then trying to figure out if Eddie could feel the same about him, and Eddie having his own queer arc about how no one has felt as right as Shannon because he needs a deeper connection that he does have with Buck and them going there. Buck being bi puts at least halfway there on the road to canon buddie, because now it is an actual canon possibility that Buck will develop, or find out he already has feelings for Eddie. Especially with how intertwined with the discovery with Tommy, Eddie is. Everything that points to Tommy, points to Eddie if Buck just looks to the right, yk? Obviously the showrunners and actors will keep saying there's no plan, and they are seeing where it's going, but if they handle the next episode well, just sit back and enjoy, because they're cooking. They could've made Buck bi be only about Tommy, but they didn't, they made a very intense point of adding Eddie to the mix so I will continue to believe they have a plan and this is a slow burn that's gonna happen, because I honestly, even more now with canon confirmation that Buck is bi, I think it's the only way to look at them, yk? I don't see why they wouldn't go there now that they are not hiding behind the "they are both straight" excuse. And personally, as a writer, I think it would be a waste of a setup not to go there now that we know they can go there.

[stargirl-and-potts]

It’s worth revisiting what we mean when we say we trust a showrunner. I’d rather we didn’t say it at all. We don’t actually know them, and they’re just human. They’re going to make writing decisions we find shortsighted or painful or less creatively effective than an entire fandom’s collective output. They're in the writing trenches; they don't get to analyze everything to the depth we do.

But if we do say we trust them, let’s stop meaning that we trust the story to mean the same thing to them that it does to us. We tend to love one character or another most; they tend to love the story as a whole. Let’s find writers we trust to do justice to the story they’re telling for their own sakes. Each of us brings our past and our inner selves to the stories; so do they. For OFMD, Jenkins has said he’s writing a story about masculinity, and the ways we’ve got it wrong.

Even Ed and Stede and their love are secondary to that — that’s why they have to split up repeatedly; they have to heal and reorient their own sense of themselves and their community and their masculinity even more than they need to love each other. And in Jenkins’ narrative Izzy (and Hornigold, and CJ, and Ed’s dad) stands in for the real-world men who keep pushing their sons and friends and students and partners back toward a masculinity that hurts them deeply. Jenkins is showing how they do it without even understanding why it hurts or how it could be different.

And Stede got his blessing from Mary, but Ed never got an apology, or a blessing, or any understanding from the rest; so Jenkins had Izzy stay around long enough and gain enough depth to understand how to see him, to give Ed his blessing. That was part of the story Jenkins needed to tell — the moment someone formative who hurt you sees what they’ve done and makes it right.

As to what else it could have meant, who else he could have been or was to us — that’s what fandom is for.

[my-mt-heart]

I totally understand if you don't feel up to speculating on this ask given the showrunner's opening his mouth and inserting his entire leg in his latest interview. I mean that level of ineptitude on show promotion verges on malicious compliance. Anyway my ask is: In the scenario if the nun dies, how would Daryl justify abandoning Laurent whom I'm sure he would feel obligated to protect? I know I'm jumping to conclusions based on season 3 speculation that it's just Daryl and Carol riding off on the bike and not even knowing how season 2 ends. I just don't understand how Daryl would leave him in the care of others given the nun's emotional manipulation of Daryl throughout season 1. Could it be a retread of Dead City Hershel's abduction story? And Daryl and Caryl go in search of him? I honestly wouldn't put it past them to be that uncreative.

I appreciate your ask, anon, and I promise, I'm not ignoring it. The truth is, I don't know how to speculate on anything related to Zabel's storytelling. If I had to, I would guess Laurent makes the decision on his own to stay, but that's applying logic and emotional intelligence that Zabel rarely seems capable of. That, and he assumes it's okay to treat his audience like we're stupid. If Cherokee roses grow in Maine and Daryl "most loyal character on TWD" Dixon can develop a "deep" attachment to characters he's only known for a few months and a relationship based on manipulation is "mature" and Caryl can think they're in the U.S. when they actually landed in Spain like some reverse Christopher Columbus shit, then maybe it also makes sense for Caryl to use Laurent as shark bait. Who the fuck knows. See what I mean? How do I begin to analyze and reflect on what amounts to some really sick joke? That's what Zabel's doing, he's turning these wonderful characters who deserve nothing less than brilliant writing into a joke.

On another note, I know a lot of people are speaking up about this larger issue on multiple platforms, which is the only way to encourage the change we want (just like getting Melissa back initially). In case anyone is frustrated by AMC's silence or attempts at a distraction, the very first thing they're going to do is wait and see if this will blow over on its own, so stay active. Keep sharing your concerns. There's a misogynistic aspect to this as well, which I'll get into later.

I'm sorry to everyone who is feeling hurt by Zabel's arrogant and tone deaf comments. Everyone who matters to this show from Caryl to McReedus to their fans deserve far better from someone who gets to call themselves their showrunner.

[julieverne]

genuine question, how much of The Actual Show rizzoli and isles like, open to the idea of rizzles? Like I adore all of your fics, and I would watch *that* show, but how much of it is fanon vs queerbait vs subtext vs actual canon?

Season 1-4 it genuinely looks like they're headed for a Rizzles endgame. Season 5 is ok but they're taking a step back. Season 6 and 7 they're strangers that are sometimes in the same room. The showrunner changed then and only watched the first and last episodes of the preceding seasons - which were heavy on how much these two women loved and relied on each other, so I don't know why so much went wrong there.

Some of it's scripted, some of it's not. But it's not in the good-natured Xena way of 'oh they're together but the studio won't let us show that so we get around the censors' way. It's 'suburban housewives were our target audience but Sasha and Angie can't keep their hands off each other and now most of our audience is lesbians'.

There was a really great recap on AfterEllen but all the pictures have been taken down. But the genuine chemistry the actresses had in those first few seasons is worth watching. This is the ship that launched a hundred fics for me. In the first run people must have been watching and waiting for something to happen and it never did.

They didn't need to be endgame. They just needed to be something other than strangers in the last two seasons.

So it's a weird show; there's no series bible, no two seasons carry the same vibe, one season is straight-up slapstick. There's plot holes in the backstories and the pets get fridged. Watching Bones really highlights how seat-of-the-pants Rizzoli and Isles was.

But despite all that:

Totally Gratuitous, Totally Gay Touching

Righteous Ponytail of Justice

Sasha Alexander in every outfit

Angie Harmon not knowing what a tomboy is and just standing and sitting in the most homosexual of ways

Senior Criminalist Susie Chang is gold in every scene

Hurt/Comfort

All of the above are good reasons to watch the show, but the hurt/comfort is paramount. Terrible things happen to these women, and season 1-4 they generally end up alone at home together curled up on the couch comforting each other.

Quick warning: season 1 is darker and probably better in terms of plot and cohesion. I rank the show seasons 4, 2, 3, 1, 5, 6, 7.

And now, more evidence of the TGTGT:

I'm not going to try to convince someone to watch a 2010 show with no payoff in 2023 when we have better shows. But it has its place in the queer hall of fame for a reason.

And the show for its time did okay. They did have murdering lesbians, but they also had lesbians mums, and lesbian colleagues. They had a transgender judge that was treated with respect when they figured it out as part of their investigation. It hasn't aged poorly in that sense. The show had a lot of potential, and it flopped when they veered away from the subtext. But as a studio that was a risk they had to take - I doubt they had many male audiences and even now most shows still cater to that demographic. So for a show that really was about women - two women that were very close - to do so well, it had to do certain things. But the show had so much potential that never came to fruition.

One last thing - the books themselves are completely different. The characters share the same names and live in Boston, but that's about the end of the similarities. Tess Gerritsen herself seems very tickled and amused by the fact that this bizarre show exists and that she has a cult lesbian following because of it, and I love her for that and I love that for her. If you ever do watch season 7, she has a cameo in an episode which is precious.