my-mt-heart

[my-mt-heart]

I know Daryl was incredibly hurt when Carol left Alexandria without so much as even telling him (which I honestly hate tbh and even more that she gave that letter to Tobin of all people). But do you think that in hindsight he is glad that she wasn't there because it meant she wasn't in the lineup and didn't have to witness any of it (and also wasn't at risk of getting killed)? I feel like if she had been there D would never have slept another night imagining what would have been had it been her

Yeah, you really have to twist yourself in knots to make sense of some of the writing for Daryl and Carol in the Gimple era. I think for our sanity, the argument can be made that Carol couldn’t write the letter to Daryl because then she wouldn’t have been able to leave, similar to how her “I love you” in the series finale was lighter so that she could make it easier for her and Daryl to part ways 🥴

I think Daryl is extremely glad Carol didn’t end up in that lineup. Me on the other hand—it always pisses me off thinking about how many times Gimple tried to isolate her from the rest of the group. Imagine the emotional impact of Daryl and Carol seeing each other on their knees like that, the fear and desperation it would’ve evoked. A wounded Daryl punching Negan would’ve been much more believable if the former had been trying to protect Carol and then Daryl would’ve had to sit with the idea that his primal instinct to protect his own partner got somebody else’s killed. Negan deciding to spare Daryl also would’ve felt much more organic if Carol had been the one to negotiate for his life. Huge, HUGE missed opportunities for this arc 🤦‍♀️

[my-mt-heart]

Daryl seems grumpy as shit in the spinoff. It’s really annoying. He’s still doing it in season 3. Literally just watched a clip where he’s on a boat with Roberto and he said “what was that? It was a fish, let’s go” or something like that. And even saying that, he sounds grumpy and irritated. His voice even sounds different. Why on earth would anyone think that ANYONE would want to watch a protagonist be fucking misERABLE.

They’re trying to imitate older adventure stories where the protagonist is a brooding, emotionally stunted action hero and it’s not working at all because again, Daryl has always represented the exact opposite of that to his fans. Also, the vast majority of his fans are women and abuse survivors, not toxic fanboys, and of the female audience, the ones who prefer emotionally intelligent Daryl are the ones the show will actually profit from.

[my-mt-heart]

I have to disagree. Norman was very thoughtful in the past and very much cared about Daryl and even Caryl (romantic or not he cared for their frendship). But the fame went to his head and he became very vain. I used to be his big fan and took me a long while to accept he is no longer a man I once adored.

I don’t disagree with that. I just think that part of the reason for it has to do with him having better influences around him like Andy and Melissa. He still has Melissa, yes, but I think he’s latched on to the other men’s toxic masculinity.

[my-mt-heart]

Idk if you'll get 100 of these messages so sorry if you do but: Did you hear that NR deleted his Instagram account? My guess would be that it's because of his son but do you have any idea if that sounds like a good thing for him personally and also for the future of Daryl? I heard someone say it sounds like the beginning of a mental health journey which honestly might be true because he seemed very focused on being in the spotlight til now

It probably would be good for his mental health, but it could also just be a tantrum and he’ll be back in 24 hours. IG is also a marketing tool, so if he’s having trouble getting work because of everything that’s going on, I don’t know that disappearing entirely would help him. In any case, it doesn’t really say anything about the future of Daryl to me.

I still need to address the “son” of it all. I’m trying to find enough time to articulate my thoughts.

[my-mt-heart]

Why was norman willing to deliver the Daryl we know and love in the flagship show? If he thinks he has to act Daryl in this fake macho way now, how was he doing such a good job at playing him as complex and deeply gentle before?

Because Norman wasn’t the one making all the decisions for his character in the flagship show 💀

[my-mt-heart]

DD just feels like watching NR's mid-life crisis on screen (+ the 4 horsemen's too). D feels like a grumpy old man who's trying to cling to his youth, not cause he's old but because they pair him up with these VERY CLEARLY younger ppl (in body and mind) and he just sticks out (the Daryl-Nun-Quinn scenes make this especially obvious). He's just giving 'let me show the kids how to do it' vibes and I h8 it. His character NEVER felt unnatural in TWD. Not even in s1-2 when he played a literal misfit

💯

[my-mt-heart]

I want to ask you do you think David really intends to create this similarity between Caryl (Carol/Antonio and Daryl/Isabella), leading them to the conclusion that they went through the same fate and eventually realizing they’re only meant for each other? Because all of their relationships have failed the same way! I believe he’s deliberately shaping the story to end that way. What do you think? Regardless of whether we like it or not (I personally hate it because it takes away something special about Caryl) but do you think that’s really his intention?

David Zabel has made it explicitly clear time and time again that he has no intention of making Caryl romantic and there is absolutely no evidence of it onscreen. I know it’s extremely painful to think that the characters we love and the relationship that we love for all kinds of reasons are gone, but I think it’s going to do way more harm to watch it brutally play out on screen if we let ourselves. I’m personally cutting my ties with this particular spinoff and will hope for something better to come in the future. Obviously, everyone has the right to make their own choices.

[my-mt-heart]

I feel like the reason we have lost the connection between Daryl and Carol is because Norman's ego has gotten in the way of his acting. He seems so bitter towards Melissa. She makes all the eye contact and is always the one engaging him in questions where as he seems detached. During one of the interviews someone asked them a question and he said something like " We all get the same e-mail's sister" and it came across as really passive aggressive.

I think “sweetheart” was the name he used, but that’s beside the point. I think the male EPs are upset that nobody likes the show and instead of taking responsibility for their actions, they take it out on the fans for not understanding their “genius” and on Melissa for being the only one coming out of the situation smelling like roses.

Caryl’s connection is gone because those men wanted it gone. And now the show’s canceled 🤷🏻‍♀️

[my-mt-heart]

Do you know if anyone has pitched another "iteration" of Caryl's adventure?

I think there are things going on bts. It’s just a matter of whether or not something could come to fruition. Like I mentioned, it’s a whole process.

[my-mt-heart]

I like your interpretation of Carol dodging the “are you okay” question from Daryl, but when I watched, I thought it was because there were difficulties at the Kingdom and she was struggling to get help from Michonne. And she shrugged it off because she wasn’t there to talk about her, she was worrying about Daryl and wanted to focus on encouraging him to come home.

That was what I meant when I said she was brushing it off. She said there were things going on, but there also seems to be this unspoken thing that she can’t bring up to Daryl. It adds to her concern about Daryl being in exile

[my-mt-heart]

My biggest issue with the new Daryl is, I don't like him. He seems to be so different and emotionally distant. Not like S1 and 2 Daryl but with an entire personality. He honestly gives me the ick because he's basically like other characters from the show I didn't like much.

His emotional distance from Carol and Judith is absolutely off putting. Why would anyone trust someone who basically raised a child and was a caregiver, abandon it just like that. Without much thought or ensuring that child is cared for?

And even if you don't see Caryl as romantic, her appearing in France in the midst of a war, after crossing the ocean (he nearly didn't survive), being so distant without asking 1000 questions and basically ignoring her. It's a trait that's very unattractive for a male and story wise a bad choice because he isn't trustworthy at all, unless you have something he wants. And that's making him a "bad guy".

European Daryl is just another toxic hero with unearned man pain, which is the exact opposite of what the real Daryl represented to the people who loved him, both within the narrative and in the audience. He’s supposed to be the fiercely loyal, emotionally intelligent unconventional hero with a heart of gold. A man of honor if you will.

[my-mt-heart]

Daryl’s seemed more like Norman in Daryl’s clothes to me for a while. All the actors seemed tired by season 11, and I don’t mean that as an insult, but Daryl hasn’t really felt like anything other than an actor saying lines for a number of seasons and that stands out given how strong his character used to be. I haven’t watched the spin off but from what I know of it, it just makes me think of NR’s bike show.

Your last anon said about him feeling like a different character and I think it’s because he’s less of a character and more of a brand now. And I don’t care about actors past their roles but I do see that an actor who will sell his iPhone selfies as photography/art for an insane price, is likely an actor who’s more invested in the $ than a good story. He’s safe in TWDU whether the script is excellent or not. And it’s a job at the end of the day so if you’re in a position to make more even if the quality isn’t there, then why not? It happens in all industries, plenty would. But Daryl being a brand is like seeing a live-in ad on the screen, vs the character people actually loved from the earlier seasons. Especially after Rick left.

Maybe I did just get burned out and jaded by the show in general, maybe the actors did too, but its charm from the earlier seasons is definitely gone by the end.

I think it’s more about building an image for Norman than about money, especially because it’s his production company paying all the costs of making the spinoff 🥴 But I agree with you—the branding of Daryl has always clashed with the actual characterization and now that we’re just seeing the branding (whatever the hell the branding is, I don’t think even Norman knows), it doesn’t work.

[my-mt-heart]

Zeke was supportive when Carol was planning to take Henry to Daryl and invited Daryl to stay, so I don’t believe they argued about her visit in ‘find me’. I wish we got additional scenes of caryl directly after Henry died, we could’ve seen more of zeke’s jealousy

Carol didn’t tell Zeke that she was taking Henry to Daryl until after she got back presumably and then Zeke hinted at the possibility of Carol leaving him if the kingdom fell and they had to move to Hilltop.

But yes, I wish we got scenes in the immediate aftermath of Henry dying. I don’t think Daryl left her side.

[my-mt-heart]

I got an addition to Daryl's abandonment fears: I think what's extra tragic about this, is that Carol doesn't understand how much she means to him and just HOW SCARED he is of losing her. Because she simply doesn't register that she could be that important to someone. So she doesn't even realize how much she is hurting him, while he is probably feeling constantly on edge about her disappearing again. I only just realized this and it's honestly making me cry a little

Yep, Carol has a lot of trauma and fears too. She tends to think the worst of herself and can’t fathom the idea of someone loving her unconditionally.

[my-mt-heart]

Can we talk about how romance for women is handled in general on TWD? Maggie loses her husband in the worst way imaginable, Lucille gets cheated on and left to die alone, Negans new wife is just kinda there, Jessie!, Leah gets abandoned and Carol doesnt get to be with the person she loves for 15 fucking years but can instead watch him get with a young nun and then care for her child. But Rick gets his flaming hot badass wife, Abe has 2 much younger women who get a whole subplot swooning over him

Romance in TWDU has (for the most part) been shown through a white male lens, even when there’s a woman of color at the helm because there are still white men higher up the totem pole giving their “notes” and they don’t do it to service the female characters. That’s the problem.

[my-mt-heart]

What I really wish we had gotten was how Daryl felt when he thought Caryl had died in s3. I wonder if he still thinks about that and how he thinks back to that time today. I usually see Sophia's death as this big thing between them and it is, but genuinely thinking she was dead for a couple days must have left an impression on him. I actually wonder if a big part of his fear of being abandoned by her comes from that and if he ever thought back to that feeling in s10. I need them to talk about it

It easily could’ve contributed to his fear of losing her. He would remember how it made him feel, but it would be amplified by million because we’re talking years later after they’ve grown so much closer.

[my-mt-heart]

So do you mean that norman is actively trying to act daryl in a way that most of the audience happens not to like? He’s deliberately playing daryl as mostly indifferent to carol, grumpy (in a grumpy old man way, not in a hot headed kid way), strangely corny at times, and suddenly a poor judge of character? All things that daryl isn’t.

As well, what’s wrong with leaning into the assets he already had? Daryl was a strong character and so was his relationship with Carol. I don’t see why he didn’t think those things would give him roles?

What’s strange to me is he says this “one person in the world he needs” stuff about Carol on panels, but then acts like he hates her in scenes.

I just don’t understand how he can act so well in the main show and now so terribly. Is it even possible for his acting to go back to good like it was before? It seems like he’s forgotten how to act. As much as we can separate character from the actor, that character came to life through him and his skill at playing him. Now suddenly he’s lost it? It’s hard to understand.

I don’t think he figured that most people wouldn’t like it, but yeah, he made a deliberate choice.

He doesn’t think that he can get the roles he wants, aka the ones where he gets to play the conventional hero. Because that’s what he’s been conditioned to believe is “manly.” And people like Gimple and Nicotero enforce that belief.

Well, I think that moment from the panel was Norman putting his real self on display rather than his “ideal” self.

In the flagship show, Daryl’s story (overall) was written and directed by people who could keep him in character. The writers and directors for the spinoff are yes-men living in a misogynist echo chamber. So that’s the difference there. If the character is put in the right hands again, the audience can get him back, however, Norman has to be willing to deliver that in his acting choices.