#the things devin grayson has done to characters

[zahri-melitor]

There are two categories of people about Devin Grayson:

- people who’ve read her Gotham Knights run

- people who haven’t

Any time people act like Nightwing #93 is the be all and end all of the conversation about Devin as a writer, I want to hand them Gotham Knights, particularly 1-12, 24, and 32. And Relative Heroes. And Arsenal. And get them to sit still and ACTUALLY read the Nightwing Mob Arc. And point out a fan favourite Dick & Donna story (the one in Chronicles #7) is also Devin. And and and…

[bloomeng]

I feel like something a lot of people miss when discussing DC canon is context.

(Warning: Mentions of canon sexual assault scenes)

So today I saw a discussion about Alfred's fanon perception versus canon reality. I wouldn't say op was criticizing people for thinking of him as a sweet old man, merely just pointing out that he's canonly not so innocent and it goes unaddressed. He was the one who nudged Tim into the Robin mantle and he was the one who stripped it from him and gave it to Damian without asking. There's a whole plotline about how he had a daughter that he abandoned. He was the one who put up the "soldier" plaque memorial. All of these things are true, however, I don't think it was the writers' intentions to paint a lot (not all) of his actions as negative. In fact, the writing often goes out of its way to paint Alfred as a martyr. That doesn't make his actions right, nor does it mean that someone is wrong for being upset with him, but it also means that people aren't stupid or wrong for interpreting his character as this beacon of virtue. It's also notable that most people are probably more acquainted with his animated and film adaptations where he hasn't done any of the things I've listed.

Context is always important when analyzing media, but it is ESPECIALLY important when discussing DC because of the sheer volume of authors writing for a single character.

This is why there are so many arguements about whether or not Bruce is a bad father. When you have so many authors writing a character for close to a century, you're going to have inconsistencies and their takes on the character will contradict. We can go in circles bringing up issues that prove either side, but it's futile. Everyone is entitled to their feelings towards things that happen in canon, but I don't think it's fair to pass ultimate judgement based on something that was often written by one shitty writer.

Now disregarding DC canon is something the fandom is selectively good at, but the curtesy is not extended evenly. Going back to Alfred for a moment. A legit criticism of the writing is that he abandoned his daughter and that isn't really addressed outside of the issue that introduced it. And I think the reality is that DC often recognizes their mistakes after the fact and isn't equipped to handle the conversations they start so they quietly retcon. Which isn't great, but I also think it's a silent mercy. See not addressing something is bad, but putting out offensive media is more detrimental IN MY OPINION.

This is even more evident when it comes to DC's history with depicting sexual assault. They constantly back themselves into corners. I really appreciated that Gail Simone's Batgirl run retconned the Joker's sexual assault against Barbara. SA is something that is important to talk about but it's also something that needs to be treated with care. What happened to Barbara was not a productive conversation. There were so many gross undertones of the Joker specifically sexually assaulting her. Same with Talia sexually assaulting Bruce. There are very real racist undertones. There is a time and place to discuss male victims and the way male rape victims are written off, but the story is not concerned with having that conversation. So now we’re not only not having that conversation but we’re also stereotyping and villainizing POC women which also has real world consequences.

Now this next part might get me boos from the audience but to me this also extends to Dick and Tarantula. I know a lot of people want DC to acknowledge what happened, but to that I'm like why? Devin Grayson is a notably bad writer when it comes to Dick. There are racist undertones to having Tarantula sexually assault Dick. Devin is literally known for making Dick Roma for fetish reasons. Before this Dick Grayson was a white character, who was already written to be flirty and sexual. These are all important things to consider about the context of the writing. I think it would actually be best if DC did what Gail Simone did with Batgirl. I think it’s unfair to not give these WOC characters the same treatment of understanding when their actions are shitty because of shit authors.

Real world context is vital for understanding these fictional stories. Batman can't kill because that would mean they would have had to be constantly introducing new villains and it would be less child friendly. Robin was introduced to the story because they were trying to market to children. Batman continuing to recruit children is about marketing to kids. The hyper-focus on Dick's romantic life was in part an effort to fight gay allegations. These are all important factors to consider if you're discussing DC critically.

Like realistically yeah it sucks so bad that Alfred and Bruce allowed children to fight crime. But it's also notable to mention that Dick forced Bruce's hand, Bruce was really trying to stop this kid from murdering a man. It was a compromise. Alfred and Dick may have pushed Tim to become Robin but he was already one foot out the door. Damian and Cass were trained by assassins. None of these kids are realistic depictions of children, even if they are relatable. When you read a superhero comic you are suspending a certain level of disbelief and I don't think it's the hot take people think it is to criticize Batman for allowing kids to fight.

Like cool, then we don't have a story. Nothing about superheroes are realistic. Why is this the line we draw in the sand?

I didn't know when to bring this up, so I'm going to awkwardly tack it on at the end. So the "Nothing Butt Nightwing" webcomic... Yeah it looks not good, but a lot of people are calling it out for sexualizing Dick, which once again to me fails to understand the outside context. There is a difference between sexualizing and sexualization of an ethnicity. As I mentioned, for most of Dick's run he was a white character who was written to be flirty. Devin was fetishizing him, but allowing Dick to remain a flirty character is not an act of fetish based sexualization. Personally I think it’s more harmful to get rid of core aspects of his character now that he is canonly Romani. Not to mention that if we address the SA with his character we are now back in this place of stereotyping and bad undertones. So until DC is ready to tell a legitimate story about male SA victims I'd rather the Dick Grayson thing be left silently in the past. I'm so hyper aware that I'm in the minority though. I agree it could be really powerful to have one of those stories be told but consider how harmful it would be to continue to imply these things about WOC.

[erinwantstowrite]

hihiiiihiiii just finished the new chapter and it was amazing!!!! so sorry to hear about the reason for your delay and wishing you all the best <3 i'm glad writing was something you enjoyed during this time but if you ever struggle with it i will definitely be happy to wait as long as it takes for a new chapter!

i wanted to ask for clarification on the whole bludhaven/tarantula thing you mentioned in your end of chapter notes?? it seems really interesting and i'm really curious! (ps the future friendsgiving chapter is going to HAUNT my thoughts i just know peters going to do the most chaotic shit ever)

thank you so much <33 it means a lot to see everyone say this :)

Now, as for Tarantula, I'm gonna put that under the cut. For everyone's safety, please be aware that I'm going to be talking about SA and what comes with it.

For anyone unaware, Tarantula is an anti-hero that is in Bludhaven. There are multiple Tarantulas, but the one I'm talking about specifically is in one of the Nightwing runs. She takes advantage of him on a rooftop when he is clearly out of it and can not consent. This is also directly after a huge event in Bludhaven where Dick's apartment building that had so many people he knew and cared about, was blown up by another villain. Later on, Bludhaven is bombed and completely destroyed.

I don't want to write any of that.

I hate Devin Grayson. I don't like her writing, I don't like her. I genuinely can not stand her. And so writing about Tarantula or giving her any sort of hold on LoF... I can't do it. So I'm not going to write it. History is being rewritten. Neither Tarantula happened, nor the bombings.

However. This is not the only time that Nightwing/Dick Grayson has been assaulted. And it's a touchy subject, but I think the impact of these instances was not once addressed in an appropriate manner for the seriousness of these instances. Sexual assault is not something that can be brushed past. And Dick has been let down by so many people. Him being a male victim of SA has a lot to do with his story, I think, and the type of character he is. If the writers had any brains in their heads, they could have made these instances into a powerful statement on the impact of SA. They could have done anything to make it known that tis wasn't for a joke, etc. But they didn't.

I don't plan on writing flashbacks to these instances. I just can not bring myself to do it. But Dick is a SA survivor, and I care a lot about treating that with the respect it deserves. So no, no flashbacks, but I hope that when the topic comes up, it's clear that I care. There will always be a trigger warning mentioned when it comes up.

And it will. I haven't explicitly stated it yet in LoF, but Westcott is a part of Peter's story, and yes, it's based on the shit he did in the comics. Because in the comics, that impacted Peter heavily. It comes up when he's helping people. Peter is always trying to help people the way that he hadn't been able to be helped.

So because of Dick's past, when Peter's is brought up, it's going to have an impact on the story. And I really hope I do it justice without hurting any of you in the process.

[madcapberry]

i would love to know ur dickhelena thoughts that might be controversial actually… i recently finished a bunch of huntress reading so she’s been on my mind a lot

Idk maybe the most controversial thing is how much I care about the two of them as a pair. I think their friendship is more compelling than Dick and Babs as a relationship or Helena and Babs (whatever tf you’d call what they have going on). And I just wish that we’d gotten more of Dick and Helena together, I feel like their dynamic had so much meat to it. There was so much to dig into that was never full explored. And I think leaning into it would have been good for the development of BOTH of them as characters.

I’m not saying I think they should be a couple, but it makes me sad that nobody seems to care about them as a pair. There are so many Dick Grayson fans and I feel like a large portion of them barely know who Helena is. And Helena fans generally don’t seem to give a fuck about Dick (correct me if I’m wrong, that’s just based on my observations… also fair enough). But they make such interesting foils and you could do so many different stories with the two of them and their opposing viewpoints. And it’s always more interesting than pairing Helena up with Batman because Dick and Helena actually seem to care about each other on a human level and they have this unnamable tension between them that I think works so so so well.

The dynamic I’m talking about is pretty contained to the 90s through to 2011. Dick and Helena’s dynamic in Grayson is fun but it also feels like both of them (but especially Helena) are completely different characters there. And to be completely honest I don’t know a lot about what their relationship looks like since Rebirth.

What I wanted from them was for their relationship/friendship/working partnership to get the breathing room to stretch and grow. I wanted it to be painful and sweet and difficult. I wanted their chemistry, their similarities, and their camaraderie to MEAN SOMETHING!! And it was pushed aside by people like Chuck Dixon who were very very keen on pushing Dick and Barbara as a power couple (Nothing against Babs, I absolutely adore her. Really don’t like DickBabs tho) I also think a lot of writers at the time disliked Helena so they did their best to make it seem like she meant nothing to their precious Nightwing.

I think they work better as friends than as a couple. They’re both quite uncompromising characters with core values that don’t line up. It could be interesting to explore a romantic relationship between them, but anytime that’s been done it just feels… off to me. I don’t mind the sometimes sexual aspect of their relationship, it works for me sometimes, but at other times I do think it feels a little bit forced (Devin Grayson why is Helena randomly shoving her tongue down his throat). Anyway.

Dick can’t love certain parts of her, (her willingness to kill bad people). Helena can’t love certain parts of him (his rigidity, to put it lightly). And I think what they both need is a kind of freedom they’ll never be able to find in each other. It’s crazy because both of these characters have a sort of wild and free personality at times but neither of them are free. Helena is bound by the memory of the slaughter of her family, her old mob ties, her guilt, her compassion and hatred in equal measures, her religion, Batman and Gotham. Dick is bound by his love for Bruce, the shoes he has to fill, the version of himself he needs to live up to, the version of himself Bruce imagines is real, the weight of all the people who rely on him etc.

There’s this dedication and commitment and fervor at the core of both of them and they’re both orphans and they’ve both experienced so much violence and they both have a chip on their shoulder about Batman and yet they have so much to argue over it’s GREAT!!!!

Anyways love them a lot ok byeee!

[dc-polls]

Biggest DC Misconception

Quarter-Finals - Match 2

Nightwing is a slut/himbo

This is something I see way too often and why I stopped interacting with Nightwing "fans". Nightwing isn't a slut and I don't know why this even has to be said, he's said it himself that -he could never make love to someone he doesn't truly love- (paraphrasing). And everyone making him out to be a sex object that fucks anyone who looks at him is gross especially since he is a r#pe victim.

And the Bimbo comments are also ridiculous he's once of the best detectives and he was taught by Batman he's proven time and time again in comics that he's fully capable by himself and is a great detective but because he's hot he gets dumbed down to himbo.

(Additional notes: Devin Grayson does write nightwing as a slut and Tom Taylor dose write him as a himbo these are both badly written versions of the character and doesn't actually represent him.) (The versions I'm referring here are The New Teen Titans, outsiders and Nightwing (Chuck Dixon)

--

Jason has Lazarus Pit Madness

Not true. Being dunked in the Lazarus Pitt once causes disorientation for a few hous, at most days. Afterwards Jason was perfectly sound of mind, and every time he kills people it's done due to his own free will, not some magic water compelling him to. Also his eyes never turn glowing green.

And another entry...

i'm actually not sure of its origins, but "Pit madness" is what happens when a person is dunked into the Lazarus Pit, it's specifically used to explain Jason's murderous tendencies as Red Hood. this isn't actually true, Jason's anger as Red Hood is completely his own, something that he himself addresses, saying that he thought that maybe he became [Red Hood] because of the Lazarus Pit, before realizing it was all him and that maybe he's been like that all along. it infuriates me because when people use it, they are completely stripping Jason of his morals, and blaming it all on Pit Madness and making it something he needs to be cured of. plus, batfans seem to only use it for Jason, completely ignoring others that have been in the Lazarus Pit (e.g. Cass, Dinah, Lady Shiva, Talia. notice the common thing in these characters).

And one more entry...

Jason Todd did not have Lazarus Pit madness. Even putting that fact aside, Lazarus Pit madness is temporary; it’s not a long-term, recurring condition, and not everyone who is exposed to the Pit’s waters contracts it. We see Jason in the direct aftermath of exposure, and he shows no symptoms known to apply whatsoever. He was completely in control of all of his actions which followed.

[necrotic-nephilim]

Give me your most controversial dc opinions!!!

HA YES GLADLY I WOULD LOVE TO (added a read more because i had a lot of words oopsie)

The Titans Tower Incident was in character for Jason Todd. at worst, it's a *bit* over-dramatic and a little cringey, but if you consider his actions, his motivations, and what he *actually* does, i honestly don't think it's OOC for him. he's just kind of a dramatic asshole in that era and i stand by that comic. the issue isn't the comic itself, it's how people interpret it.

i think the DC fandom, specifically the Batfamily fandom, really likes to claim to be progressive for brownie points, but then will have the one token woman that everyone decides is acceptable to hate. like, it's one thing if you dislike Carrie Kelley, i get it. Frank Miller isn't a great writer of women and she can be a lack of a character in the original Dark Knight Returns. but if you go out of your way making constant edits and posts shitting on her, it's *weird*. especially when most of the people shitting on her haven't even consumed her source, and their reasons for disliking her can apply to any other Robin, especially Tim. but as long as you put say, Steph or Cass on a pedestal, you can talk on and on about how you want to kill Carrie for the crime of existing. it feels like acceptable misogyny. i also think this extends to writers. if you put say, Gail Simone on a pedestal, you're free to blame everything under the sun on Devin Grayson. (to be clear i think you can and should hate Devin Grayson for a lot of things, but most rumors about her are untrue and if you look at every badly written comic and go "sounds like something Devin Grayson would write" that's really weird bc everything she's done, men like Chuck Dixon, Tom King, Tom Taylor, Marv Wolfman, etc have done in tenfold.) like, misogyny = bad unless it's That One Woman We've All Agreed To Hate. it's weird and i keep noticing it. and no one seems to unpack it. (i mostly see this on TikTok, not Tumblr tbf)

i don't care if you ship BruDick or not, but it's not weird for canon content to imply or state Dick had a crush on Bruce when he was first taken in. even in canon where Dick sees Bruce as a "father figure" in the most generous sense, that bond took years to build and when Dick was freshly orphaned, he *had* the memory of loving parents and didn't want Bruce to fill that role. you don't have to ship BruDick, you don't even have to like batcest, but if you're vitriolic toward just the idea that "hey maybe a young kid on the cusp of puberty might have some weird feelings to work out about the canonically very attractive mysterious playboy who took him in before seeing him as family because that bond took years to build" is nasty and terrible and wrong to you, you don't like the Batfamily, you just like the nuclear "neat" version of it in your head

the Batfamily characters are *all* too hypercompetent. like all of them are just *too* good at what they do that in order to write them in interesting arcs together, you have to willingly make some of them OOC in order to not immediately have the Problem wrapped up. i get it, Bruce is the greatest detective, Tim is wicked smart, Jason's a heavy hitting brawler, but we've reached a point where all of these characters have so many buffs they're not *fun* anymore. especially not in a group setting where you need to justify them needing each other's help. and even worse-so when they interact outside of the Gotham, you end up making every non-Batfam character seem useless just to make the Batfamily look cool. it's exhausting. i want to see these characters lose fights, look stupid, and not be the best for once. they're all getting so good they're just kind of. boring. which is the worst sin for a character, IMO.

i think we should go like. a good year of all Justice League-related teams not having a single Bat on the roster. just as a cleanse so *someone else* can shine. i get why non-Batfam DC fans are sick of the Batfamily bc jesus. it's oversaturation of the market.

power scaling "who would win" fights are fucking boring and i don't care. that's the least interesting thing about the fandom. you're missing the point of all of these characters if you only care about who could win a brawl. also it's just a stupid debate because the answer will *always* be: whoever the author of the comic wants to win.

the Batfamily is too damn big. i love every single one of them do not get me wrong. i'd die for the little niche characters who are likely never going to be relevant again like Julia Pennyworth or Kate Spencer. but it's too fucking big at this point. it's insisted to us that these characters are family but like. half of them have barely existed on the same page together more than once. it's ridiculous and it cannot sustain itself. none of these characters are allowed proper shine because they'll just get dropped for the next new shiny character. i think Maps Mizoguchi is a cool lil lady, but i know in my soul in like. three years she will fade into comics limbo and we'll have a new shiny character to fawn over. it's a brutal cycle bc DC doesn't know how to give any of these characters follow through, just wants to wave around cool new concepts.

both Under The Red Hood and Death In The Family are mediocre adaptations and strip the most important emotional elements of Jason's story from the plot. you can't properly adapt Jason's death if you leave his mother out of it. like they're phenomenal movies as their own pieces of media, but they lack the necessary emotional weight for Jason.

on the note of adaptations: the Young Justice cartoon is i think the best case study of "how do you react to a piece of media that's amazing on it's own, but is a fucking horrible adaptation?" because like, i can't discredit it. it's a good show. but it's a bad adaptation and i think people using it as an entry point for DC can make their views of certain characters and teams *very* warped. the Harley Quinn: Birds of Prey movie falls into a similar vein for me. if that movie was it's own thing with original characters, it'd likely be a top five movie for me. but because it's *such a fucking bad adaptation* i can't help but hate it for brutalizing the characters and the general concept of the BoP. it should've been a Gotham Sirens movie, and Young Justice should've been a Teen Titans show. and sure, adaptations don't owe us accuracy, but they have negative effects on the comics when they gain popularity. so i struggle to like Young Justice bc of how badly it's affected certain characters.

also on the note of adaptations: the best adaptation of how comic media operates is the Sandman tv show. adapting comics to tv shows or movies is difficult bc comic arcs don't operate the way show/movie arcs do, but the Sandman show proves it's absolutely doable to adapt the storytelling style while still making the typical adjustments you need for an adaptation.

DC needs more Deaf representation. in most areas, DC either matches Marvel or outperforms Marvel with representation of marginalized identities, but it's fucking tragic we have no deal Deaf rep in DC whereas Marvel has quite a few to pick from. this one is personal bc i'm Deaf but it does fuck me up the only option we have is a side character from Tim Drake: Robin who doesn't appear anywhere else and isn't a great character overall. DC i'm in your walls.

on the note of representation, if i see one more person say Titans had "perfect casting" while in the same breath admitting Dick was whitewashed, you are weird and i dislike you. it's really fucking weird that whitewashing is permissable to this fandom if the actor cast/fancast is hot. Dick should've been a Roma actor. Damian should not be fancast as a white actor. it's the bare minimum.

i have so many more but i will end with this especially controversial one: Dan Mora's art is overhyped. that man has the worst same face syndrome i've ever seen and i will not lie half the time i can't tell which Robin he's drawing. his art is technically gorgeous and it's so pretty to look at, but begging for every comic series to be drawn by him is boring and terrible. the art style of a comic reflects it's genre. wanting all comic art to look like Dan Mora's art is sucking the style out of comics. i miss art styles like Todd Nauck's that clearly reflected the genre of the comic.

i lied i have one more i'm REALLY passionate about: Tim's vigilante name after Red Robin should not be bird-themed. naming him Sparrow or Cardinal is *just* as bad as naming him Red Robin longterm. they're *just* as derivative and they *sound* cool but don't hold any real unique identity for Tim outside of Robin. like it baffles me we all agree he needs to move on from Robin and then decided "let's name him Robin Lite". if he has a bird name, it should be Jackdaw so at the very least, he's not red anymore. and Jackdaw could be a fun callback to Drake, in that it uses part of Tim's real name (his middle name, Jackson) while standing out a bit. but if i really had creative control i'd give him a completely unique name. if it has to be Batfamily related, Gray Ghost. but in my head, his name should be Conspiracy. i could write a lengthy meta on why and tbh it is based in my love for the Question and wanting Tim to have a similar detective noir-esque gritty solo, but i genuinely don't think he should be Cardinal or Sparrow. those names only continue his identity issues of being trapped as either Robin or a Robin knockoff.

[laufire]

Thank you @redhoodinternaldialectical for tagging me!

rules: answer and tag nine people you want to get to know better and catch up with.

favourite colour: any shade of purple/lilac/violet/etc. also maroon/burgundy. also deep blues. that whole spectrum xD

last song: I was out partying last night and it was actually some techno song I couldn't name (it was good though), but the last song I actually remember and can tell you is Aloisio's "Flashbacks". Some eye-roll worthy lines but admittedly "Por ti me arrodillo y no te llamas Mary / No eres la muerte pero eres parecida" does things to me.

currently reading: I'm still going through "Burning Your Boats", a compillation of Angela Carter's short stories, and "Olvidado Rey Gudú" by Ana María Matute, both of which I'll finish this month. I also started reading my ARC of "We Will Devour The Night" by Camilla Andrews (aka @aninkwellofnectar) and caught up with the chapters she's posted of part three of the series (The Essence of the Equinox) in her ko-fi \o/

And, as usual, I'm reading through... many comics. I'm actually going to embarrass myself and list them lol. I'm completing some characters' appearances (prime earth!Jason, new earth's Cass, Steph, Talia, Leslie, Mia), almost done Green Arrow '01 and No Man's Land... + I started Devin Grayson's Catwoman's run (A++ so far!), Suicide Squad '87, and The Death of Superman.

Aaaand I'm keeping up with some ongoing runs. Monstress, Saga (IT'S BACK), Robin Lives, The Boy Wonder, Zatanna: Bring Down the House, Batman '89: Echoes, Batman: Dark Age, Batman: Justice Buster, WFA, Batman: Off-World, Ram V's 'Tec, Batman: Gargoyle of Gotham

currently watching: currently I'm on pause (I'm away on vacation) but when I'm back I'll continue watching old DCAU shows and FINALLY watch part 2 of The Glory. And finishing season 7 of stacked100, since I didn't even watch yesterday's episode lol.

currently craving: an hysterectomy.

coffee or tea: teaaaaaaa, always.

hobby to try: writing poetry. Attempts have been made but I want to go for it lol.

current au: "ooooohhh I got a million of these going at all times" <- same lmao. I'm just going to name the few I'm most focused on rn:

Young Justice: FÉNIX. That One Long Idea About Jason Reuniting With Everyone in the YJTV verse. It will include at least one additional (waaaay shorter, thankfully) story.

Damon & Elena, Marriage of Doom. I'm going to get so MEAN about this one <3

Mia & Jason Dollhouse AU!!

Jason Survives ADITF/No Death in the Family. What is says. Long series expanding from immediately post ADITF to the end of new earth añsdlfjasf. In my head, at least. You will see different versions of Knightfall, No Man's Land, Joker: Last Laugh, Murderer?/Fugitive, War Games/UTRH, and so on...

This ~future canon series that takes inspiration from some elements from A Lonely Place of Living and Duke's story but places them in New Earth. It includes a Damibats story with Damian and Colin as recent exes, a Jaytim story, TWO Jason & Duke stories, and another one where Chris Kent parent traps a divorced Clois. For now xD

Amnesiac Jason. Jason has suffered a psych attack and Bruce gets some creative licenses when he "fixes" him :)))

I'm gonna stop there. For all our sakes lol.

tagging (no pressure): @missbrunettebarbie @blairwaldcrf @wowthatsextra @mircallaruthven @lichfucker

@jaynotwayne @nastasyafilippovnas @danystargaryens @snowdropsandtigers

[lazaruspiss]

nightwing annual 2 (2007) by mark andreyko. and the many things cut from the confession from 1977 that they were most likely referencing.

it's interesting to see what they cut out from a scene that was otherwise taken word for word. the entire panel describing how dick feels this is like the one sided love one would feel for a childhood teacher. the cut out "...even as a big sister--" while dick explains how much he means to her.

in their attempt to 'elevate' their past relationship to romantic, they've destroyed much of the original meaning. making it romantic is ultimately reductive to both dicks complex feelings for her and babs character as a whole. the existence of modern dickbabs really embodies the mindset of romance first (all other relationships second) that cishetero men are so often stuck in.

the annual already aged her down, but the more you look at it the more they change it order to demote babs from independent character to a love interest kneeling at dicks feet. the cheating in annual 2 was just the misogynistic icing on this metaphorical wedding cake they've made into the modern day version of batgirl.

and the handling of the cheating in annual 2 just reeks of male author who doesn't think cheating is /that/ serious imo

this parts less important, as it's little details changed for plot convenience. babs was originally facing towards dick so there was no doubt that dick was right when he saw she was asleep, and the last part of what he said was only in thought. and this is more subjective, but the annual has her positioned on the couch in a way that seems more suggestive?

while people talk about how this annual is ooc for dick, dickbabs is done terribly, and the writing is garbage (all true to a certain extent) i dont see much about how degrading it is towards babs' character. things don't have to be loudly misogynistic in order to still be misogynistic, and writing like this annual really feels like the beginning of the end for babs. DC is leaning into her status as a love interest more than ever now. i don't see how her character can be salvaged short of retconning 2 decades worth of characterization.

ive seen a few people say devin grayson wrote this. sometimes it's an innocent mistake, others just want any and every excuse to hate her. but i think understanding that both the writer and artist are men is a bit significant, specifically because of how bad this story was for babs as an independent character.

[northoftheroad]

I really like your blog and read a lot of things you had to say about Wolfman, so can I pick your brain about Devin Grayson?

A lot of people seem to say she wasn't good for the Nightwing run. Just wanna know your opinions about it

I'm gonna read her run anyways. It's just that I like your takes on things. Especially since you make connections with older comics.

Honestly, I think there is a lot to enjoy in Devin Grayson's stories. In Titans, she wrote Dick as a competent workaholic and the Titans as a group of very close friends. JLA vs Titans has a worried bat-dad, which is always adorable. Dick and Tim have fun together, and Bruce is emotionally complicated in Batman: Gotham Knights. Batman plus Arsenal is great (Roy chews out Batman!). Her story in the Robin 80th anniversary comic has a fun twist. Etc.

Batman: Gotham Knights # 8 & 9

Then there's things I don't like.

The rape. IMO, you shouldn't write rape in comics unless you're prepared to deal thoroughly with the consequences in the story. Admittedly, the sexual assault in Nightwing vol 2 # 93 is probably dealt with more seriously than the Mirage situation by Marv Wolfman, but I still wanted something more. Blockbuster's murder and the rape had an enormous impact on Dick's mental health; we should have got a resolution where Dick could admit out loud (if even only to himself) what happened, where he could get what help he needed and decide to move on. (Preferably, I would also have liked other characters to realise what had happened and not only be assholes…) (That Devin Grayson, in some interview, wanted to call it not consensual instead of rape doesn't help (full disclosure: I don't know if she's backed down on that).)

The retconning of Dick as part Roma. Now, it's for people who are Roma to have opinions about representation; I've seen (allegedly, because who knows what is correct on social media) both Roma people who like it and those who don't. From where I'm standing, it wasn't well done. The only comic arc where a Roma parent is essential to the story is quite problematic; you get the impression that the writer did it… to exoticise Dick and have Bruce talk like a racist…? 

Gotham Knights # 20.

Some later stories have acknowledged this retcon, but only a handful of issues from decades worth of comics. Most writers ignore it, and Dick has never been portrayed as being fluent in a Romani dialect or adhering to any customs (other than looking for Romani food and talking about some legend.) He didn't even speak Romani when Devin Grayson wrote him.

How she wrote the relationship between Dick and Barbara. They were supposed to be old and dear friends, apart from a couple. Barbara blamed Dick for being sexually harassed (kissed), and when he came to her for comfort, reeling from Haly's circus being burned down, she asked him to leave after few hours night. That's not a relationship I, as a reader, would root for.

To be fair, she intended to write a story about how Dick went from being happy, to making his life living hell, and presumably end in a new happy place for him. Dick and Barbara are written in a way that would end in their splitting up. (Writers will create conflict because the storytelling needs it, and sometimes we as readers can think it was out of character, or unnecessary.)

I expect I would like her writing better if she could have finished her story. Maybe she would have got together the Dick/Barbara relationship and delivered a satisfactory resolution to the rape. But DC editorial interrupted her plans with Infinite Crisis, where they almost decided to kill Nightwing, and she had to make a rushed conclusion that never went anywhere. And when the Nightwing comic continued, it was in another town and one of the worst Nightwing stories ever.

As I said, I like part of her characterisation of Dick – how he can be ultra serious just as well as joking around, has a tendency to overwork himself, blame himself, he wants to give everyone a chance. But… I know she's said in an interview that she thinks of Dick as a contact junkie* who processes with his body before his head. I'm not down with that. Ok, as an acrobat, you could argue that body memory and responding to the touch of his fellow performers is essential for survival. And Dick might be freer with hugs than Bruce Wayne and Alfred, but that's a very low bar to set. Marv Wolfman wrote a Dick Grayson who was very private and could hardly show his love for Kory physically in public. (To be fair, when Dick dated a few girls in college in the comics from the 70s, he didn't mind holding hands and kissing in public. But, as much as I enjoy citing examples from older comics, the 80s is the start of a deeper characterisation for Dick Grayson.) I read Dick as a guy who's very much in his head – if not for any other reason, Batman must have drilled into him to think and question everything. There are panels where he seeks out solitude or watches nature programmes without talk to relax. And I also read him as uncomfortable with strangers touching or ogling him.

Anyway, happy reading. Of course you should read and form your own opinions. I guess you'll find things to love and things to loathe - I find that's true about most comic book writers and runs, myself 😎

*The way I think about him, he likes everyone, he's sort of a contact junkie — just this incredibly physical (and attractive) person who lives wholly in the corporeal plane and responds with — processes things in — his body before his head or heart. I imagine that he can be hypnotised by a touch the way other people can be stopped dead in their tracks by the sight of money or the promise of true love.

[searchforahero]

10 people I'd like to get to know better tag game! tagged by @magenta-somethings (hi!!)

Last song: i am listening to pleasures of soho by sohodolls as i write this (it has just changed to stripper by sohodolls)

Fave color: red! or blue. both are good. i like them in darker shades.

Last book: crush by richard siken! first poetry book i've ever read, i thought it was cool. i am planning to read manufacturing consent: the political economy of the mass media by edward herman next for non-fiction and battle royale by koushun takami for fiction :]

Last movie: the avengers (2012), but that was a re-watch, last movie i watched for the first time was pacific rim (2013)

Last tv show: i'm supposed to be watching supernatural rn but... i have not... in a while...

Sweet/Savory/Spicy: savory... the things i would do for a good savory dish rn...

Relationship status: single (and very happy to be)

Last thing I searched: saw keychain lol. maybe i will buy one...

Current obsession: batman as always lol. ALSO disco elysium though!!

Looking forward to: visiting the comic book store :]

Bonus topics

Favorite drink: chocolate banana smoothie from booster juice :] also non-alcoholic strawberry daiquiris :]

Song playing on a loop in your head: sexy drug by falling in reverse. i'm never going to be free of that god forsaken song.

Current favorite character: kim kitsuragi disco elysium <3

Fun activity you would like to get into: i want to try book binding :]

Last video game: disco elysium!

Last comic/graphic novel: batman & robin: year one #2 for last issue i read, but for last like. full story. i read devin grayson's nightwing run yesterday (except for the war games stuff. that's a problem for future me)

i honestly think most of the people i know have already done this...? so uh if you are seeing this and haven't done this yet or want to do it again!! i am tagging you and you should tag me so i can see it :]

[zahri-melitor]

Ok, I have now mopped up every extraneous storyline in my reread and I HAVE to start War Drums and War Games (and then I’ll do Identity Crisis afterwards, because goddamn is 2004 the start of the Grim Times)

Last thing I finished today was Nightwing #91-#95, so you know, I have been having some thoughts about Devin Grayson as a writer.

I’m very fond of Devin Grayson’s run on Gotham Knights, putting aside #16-17 and #20-21, the four issues focused on Dick Grayson only. I…don’t think that’s unusual; I think it shows the issue at hand.

I don’t think she’s a bad comics writer. She has objectively written clever, interesting comics that I have enjoyed reading. Most people would say GK Transference and 24/7 are great comic stories. After some thought, I think the issue for many DC fans is primarily that Dick Grayson is her all time fave but her headcanons about Dick long since departed from what other writers were doing with the character and she’s largely a fan of the secret Dick Grayson who lives in her head. And then she was handed the Dick Grayson book to write. It was a situation doomed to cause issues.

I’m not having a go at anyone for having “secret better version of a character who lives in your head”, we’ve all fallen foul to it on occasion. But the test case for whether letting someone who feels this way about a character write their comics is “are the fandom willing to go along with this”. Sometimes they are (please see Wally West’s backstory and supporting cast reappearing by sheer stubbornness of the fans and a handful of writers). Sometimes you’ve just pissed off your entire fandom while writing a whump storyline because you want to torture your favourite before getting to the catharsis (Devin Grayson).

Heck, if you look at what was the probable pitch for Grayson’s run up to #95, it’s…just a break the cutie whump run. Dick’s life falls apart, orchestrated by one of his nemeses, as his entire rogues gallery get the chance to attack him. We’ve all read this before. It’s the plot of Knightfall. The Maxine Michaels plot is supposed to be a Vicky Vale/Vesper Fairchild style story. We’ve seen these stories work and enjoyed them; the major difference is that they had resolutions. Devin Grayson never got to the redemption/catharsis bit of the story. I don’t know why.

The EXECUTION of the whump run however went far too hard in killing off supporting cast members and became egregious in parts (no really, why are we blowing up Haly’s Circus. And the apartment block. Why) and then, you know, #93-95 happened. But the starting idea wasn’t necessarily bad.

There’s even two issues in Grayson’s run up to #95 that I really like (#76 and #81) and I think that entirely comes down to the fact the storytelling picks up immediately when Devin Grayson is focusing on a character OTHER than Dick (Amy Rohrbach and Cass, respectively).

The issue isn’t so much “Devin Grayson is a bad writer”. The issue is that “Devin Grayson should not have been allowed to be Dick Grayson’s primary writer” and she should instead have been given books about characters she’s less obsessed with and worked out her desires to make her fave suffer by writing more fanfic.

[gamesception]

Sception Reads Cass Cain #17

Batman: Gotham Knights #5 Writer: Devin Grayson Pencils: Dale Eaglesham

Young Justice (1998) #21 Writer: Peter David Pencils: Todd Nauck & Sunny Lee

Batgirl #4's cliffhanger stretches on for another post at least because we have a couple guest appearances from July 2000 to look at, in addition to the Azrael issue we looked at previously. Not too much to say about these, but I'm pretty busy this week, so that works out.

.....

First the Gotham Knights issue. The villain is an escape artist with magic powers who for looks more like a barrow wight than a stage magician. I will say his little lockpick talons are kind of cool, though for some reason they're just boring old claws on the cover art? As per last time I don't want to just rehash what happens, you can find the comic online easily enough, and it's an ok read.

The main thing Cass is doing here is that the villain has magically 'unlocked Batman's violent urges' or whatever, so Bruce is on a rampage and Cass and Jean-Paul (nice to have one last story with the two of them as a team) are trying to fight him while simultaneously saving the villain/other random criminals from him. It's an interesting contrast to current events because while Bruce does manage to fight off Cass and Azrael simultaneously, he doesn't just beat them. More that he fights them to a standstill and slips away by first injuring the villain enough to get Azrael to stop fighting to tend to his injuries, at which point he's able create enough distance from Cass to make a break for it, and later he just throws a guy off a roof, forcing Cass to rescue the guy and again giving time for Bruce to slip away.

It is a solid example that even in her earliest prime, Cass's abilities didn't mean she could automatically or easily beat Bruce in a fight - Bruce's size, strength, experience, training, and resourcefulness put them more or less on par, particularly if circumstances are such that Batman has some extra edge - in this case the magical willingness to injure his opponent or random third parties where Cass is still holding back. Cass's special body reading puts her on the level of the best non-powered martial artists in the DC universe, but she doesn't automatically beat any of them, including Bruce.

The marked difference between this and, say, the recent Batman issue where Bruce beats his entire family simultaneously, isn't the outcome where Bruce comes out on top, it's more the process of getting there. That it is a fight, that Bruce just barely gets away, it doesn't feel like bad-god fanboy wankery. But whatever, the big two comic studios have long been asylums run by the inmates, ascended fanboyism often runs wild, you just kind of learn to live with it.

Back to the comic at hand, we've looked at an issue or two where Cass was drawn by Eaglesham before, and he does a pretty good job here as well. Though again he occasionally draws her weirdly muscularized, like here when she's catching some guy Bruce throws off a building:

If I had to complain about anything in terms of Cass's depiction here, though, it's not the art, but rather that she's mostly just a physical presence, when some of the themes of the issue are things that her personal experiences and character motivations should allow her to contribute to more meaningfully. But this is before her new verbal paradigm had worked its way around the studio, so I guess this stands as another example of why that change was overall a positive move, even if I will forever dislike how it was done.

.....

The Young Justice is a fun sorta stand alone bit. Klarion has turned Lobo into a little kid, so a younger looking but just as powerful Lobo is on a rampage fighting Klarion to try to force the Witch Boy to turn him back, which he can't do for multiple reasons that don't really matter. Young Justice tries to break up the fight, leading to a bigger fight which makes a mess in Gotham, which is justification for Cass to show up as a guest star.

I don't have much to say about this one, it's a fun little stand alone story with an amusing enough resolution. Cass does cool ninja stuff, but she's still not talking yet outside of her own book, so again her presence is pretty purely physical. We do get a neat inversion of the common problem of Cass looking too old when drawn by other creative teams because in this style if anything she looks too young.

We do end on this amusing bit of over-protective Bat-dad with his "I don't wan't you playing with those other kids" schtick.

...

So yeah, a couple fun stories. Honestly, going back and looking at every single appearance of Cass has made me realize that she did show up as a guest in other books a fair bit more than I remembered, at least early on. The writers and editors at the time gave her more of a push than I in my faulty memory have given them credit for. At least early on. Though this was before DiDio was in charge.

Next time (?) back to Batgirl proper, where we'll get to meet up with David Cain again, back when he still was David Cain.

[ursie]

genuine question: if devin wrote dick as romani in a hurtful way, why does fandom seem so intent to keeping him romani while decrying the writer that made him romani in the first place? like, if it came from such racist/hurtful archetypes then why cling to it so much? (in contrast, i've seen people say that headcanoning tim as asian is bad because of sterotypes, which is why i don't understand the difference.) i barely read past the 80s comics i grew up with, i just read a ton of fandom arguments and the contrast between "dick IS romani" vs "tim ISN'T asian" is like. i don't understand it? i know fandom isn't a monolith but there are trends overall. idk, i figured you seemed like a "safe" person to ask this question in good faith. hope it doesn't upset you! thanks for taking the time to read and/or answer this. <3

Ok so the thing is bad rep is worse than no rep-yes but erasure is worse too so the solution isn’t to erase but to fix it and there has been genuine effort in canon and by Romani people in the fandom to address Dicks rep. While it’s undeniably rooted in some stereotypes there’s also no denying how important Dicks character is. He’s undeniably the most popular Roma character of all time and that’s an issue when people won’t acknowledge he’s Roma. He’s multifaceted and smart and brave and complicated and undeniably good ect these are really good characteristics for any character let alone one to represent any group of people. The best thing dc could do is either hire Roma writers (or Roma editors/sensitivity readers/ect) they need Roma people in the workroom not less Roma characters in comics. Because at the end of the day If we wait for perfect rep before we acknowledge it we’re not going to get it and that goes for any marginalized identity. People cannot know other’s peoples lived experience-which is why we need to push for our voices in the room. Almost all the diverse characters in comics nowadays started as stereotypes and were stereotypes til someone said no and chose to do the work so they could write them better or at least try-that’s what needs to be done. I think it’s funny (and this isn’t at you) that with Dick given his importance given his cultural influence people push for erasure due to some writing flaws when that’s not and never been the case canon or fanon for other characters I mean have you read early black panther? It’s not good. I think people need to reflect if they actually have an issue with how he’s written or if they not only don’t want to view him as Roma but don’t want to put in their own work of looking past the stereotypes either. Also tbh while you’ll see people tote that Roma people don’t like his rep (which I’m not saying there’s none who don’t) the posts that are most commonly referenced are by non Romani people (and one is by a total freak so yeah). In current canon Dick is probably about 1/4th “ethnically” Roma (though that hardly matters he’s Roma hes roma like. Roma is a race he’s just not white) but also in preboot, dick's father was a kalderash-american rom, dick also spoke lovari dialect in preboot. as of post flashpoint, dick's mom is an american roma but her vitsa is not confirmed, so i just like to hc john was kalderash and mary was lovara personally 🥰 like again the best thing dc can do is actually talk about the Graysons, Mary’s family, ect and make them human. Make them more than stereotypes. Actually talk about his culture and his family and his people-not just brush it under a rug until they reference it for diversity points later

As for your other question/point to me the difference between hcing a character as a different race vs like Dick is the push to view white characters as non white instead of actually making fan content of canon non white characters? Like it’s almost a white guilt thing w Tim (this is not at fans of color) but like you want to feel good about stanning characters of color but you also. Don’t actually stan a character of color (like Tim or Jason for instance) so you just hc them as non white (and yes often stereotypically) instead of like reading a single comic w Duke in it. Like racebending is fine and I think it’s good but when done by white fans it’s often actually done to like justify their distance from actual canon characters of color. Like I’m glad you think Tim’s Asian but you still won’t draw fanart of the batfam w Duke in it in 2022 yknow? You still prioritize Jason over Cass but you think he’s Latine, you hc Steph as ambiguously brown but you still characterize Damian in a racist manner, ect. Does that make sense I’m not actually sure I’m explaining well. Oh and in the case you specified Dick is canonically non white wheras Tim isn’t-and it should be noted that white isn’t the baseline-While no one’s saying writers had any intentions he was never stated to be white before-him being “retconned” as Roma isn’t really fair or true he was simply revealed to be so as again white cannot be treated as the inherent norm (nor should heterosexuality and being cisgender or able bodied) I’m not saying you’re wrong but I think it’s important not to think about that kind of stuff in those terms if that makes sense. I hope I cleared this up. I certainly tried and should you have any more questions my inbox/dms are open

Edit : adding on an important response from @royharper : the bottom line is that people who aren't roma should not be speaking on his identity as a rom because they have no idea what roma identity fully entails. i've seen people claim "he's not culturally connected, therefore he can't be roma" or "he can be white and roma, he's not a person of color" when neither of these things are true. for one, while devin is inconsistent in her writing, dick is shown to be raised within the culture as far back as her titans run in the late 90's, in which he is shown to be speaking romanes with his father in a dream sequence that is heavily implied to be a flashback of sorts, and as well lian states that dick can speak romanes when discussing the various languages that her dad, aunts, and uncles can speak. language /is/ culture for us, it's not something that any outsider can just learn super easily. it was really strange that she retconned this herself by the time gotham knights was written a few years later through the character yoska, who attempts to speak romanes with dick and finds that he can't understand him, however using this, along with the orientalist stereotypes devin tried to impose on both dick and yoska when writing about roma identity, as an excuse to say that dick is not "really a rom" is racist. outsiders do not understand the nuances of roma identity enough to make that judgement, and no, wikipedia is not an accurate source for information about roma. touching on the idea that roma can be white, this is a misconception. while outsiders may be folded into the community by marriage or adoption, this is not very common because we don't tend to marry or adopt outside of our communities. furthermore, roma is not an ethnicity. roma is our race. our ethnicities are our clans. there are roma with pale skin, there are even roma that appear white, but they are still racially roma and are still subject to racial discrimination. in response to the idea that there is an outpouring of roma fans who don't want dick to be roma at all, this simply isn't true. that rumor was originally started by someone who was outed as a racefaker, and is perpetuated by white fans who seek to weaponize this perspective to justify their whitewashing and racism. i've known more roma who were, while still critical of devin's orientalism/antiromanyism, ecstatic to have a roma comic character who actually speaks the language, as in comparison to doctor doom and the maximoff twins, who are arguably just as popular, who do not speak romanes in comics, or have only spoken one or two words of the language. dick is important in terms of representation for this fact alone. i can't fathom the amount of people who are not roma who think that just because roma characters are often subject to stereotypical writing that it's somehow better to simply erase their racial identity all together rather than doing their own research to avoid stereotypes when portraying the characters and pushing for these companies to start hiring roma creatives as we do with /every other character of color because not a SINGLE character of color in comics history has been entirely free of racist, stereotypical writing or of colorism and whitewashing in official artwork/. and yet you don't see people pushing for other characters of color to be made white. it's really very telling to me. and just for the record, since i know this is for some reason a popular talking point, dick's race was not retconned after devin initially wrote him as roma. his race has been referenced across numerous other comics written by other writers over the years, most notably tim seeley in his run of nightwing rebirth. while i have issues with seeley's characterization of dick, and he tends to sexualize him just as much if not more than devin imo, dick's racial identity plays a big role in the raptor arc. stop acting like devin was the only writer to ever write dick as a rom and that it was never seen or heard of again in canon after she stopped working on nightwing.

[rchardgrayson]

This isn't like a dig at the anon who said the Ric arc was worse than Taylor or anything but I'd just like to expand a tiny bit,

There are some absolute balls-to-the-walls nuts things in the Ric arc that are, imo, mostly bad. (Spoilers ahead if you have not read) but whilst Dick/Ric is adamtly refusing to go back to his previous life (and you definitely sympathise with him) there's a bunch of cops (plus one firefighter I think?) who all put on Nightwing suits and try to fight crime and Ric sorta helps them out/joins them so they don't get themselves killed which I'm not even a huge fan of but there's character motivation and conflict going on there that is interesting. I really like Bea, who's introduced as a civilian love interest which surprised me because I really did not like Shawn when I first read her (though maybe I'd like her more if I did a reread) because she's a genuinely kind and interesting character with goals and motivations. There's also wild shit involving the court of owls which underpins the whole amnesia thing in general (they like stole his memories and kept them bla bla) which was a bit bleh - could've been done better and then the Joker thing which was unspeakable sjhdjdjjdjd but like all in all when I read it through a second time I was like okay? I can pick out the good from bad y'know?

Then it gets worse (imo) when Dick gets his memories back, he literally says he still likes/loves Bea and wants to see it work and then literally next issue that plan is instantly changed and he tells Bea the feelings didn't remain and she gets dropped from existence. It's such an obvious shift that was done to make way for Taylors run because Taylor very clearly wanted nothing to do with her. Another obvious shift is how, post-memory return, Dick initially says he's not ready to be Nightwing again yet and then next second Bruce has forced his hand and he is. This is all to bring it in line with where Taylor wants the comic to go but it's done so quickly I feel like I've got whiplash.

Queue Taylor and his run instantly feels so disconnected with where it was before. I understand each writer wants to bring something new and may struggle picking up from whatever place the previous writer left off but it feels so disjointed that it's jarring. And not in a good way. There's less 'wild' shit that goes on in Taylors run which should be a good thing right? Except...it more feels like there's no wild stuff because there's just...nothing happening at all sjhdjdjjd. Melinda Zucco being his secret sister is so dumb because imo she's already a compelling character as a daughter of Zucco who's mayor and seemingly under Blockbusters thumb but actually good...like there's plenty of conflict there without the dumb 'actually John Grayson is her dad' shit...like watch her be forgotten by not only Taylor but by DC in general.

And speaking of Taylor and forgetting things, there's so little movement in each issue that I, as a reader, have forgotten what the current plot even is. All I remember is the dumb billionaire plotline which is just one of Taylors liberal faux-progressive takes that reads 'actually good billionaires are fine'🙄. I'm aware he's not the one who brought Dick back to Blüdhaven or reintroduced Blockbuster but Taylors writing reads like Chuck Dixon + Devin Grayson fanfic. He's that meme from into the spiderverse where Miles looks up at Peter B like his teacher. He said himself he's inspired by Devin's era but his stuff doesn't just read as inspiration...it's literally copy+paste and idek how they're gonna work around preboot being declared canon again with Blockbuster alive and right there if they're even gonna address it at all.

Listen, Taylor is no Morrison, or Miller, he's not so wildly bad in those ways which is why he's largely slipping away with it but his writing is mediocre, lackluster and reads like he copied Chuck Dixon's homework in class. His portrayal of Babs is just downright offensive (and the art too) which he does have some control over unlike how some people claim he's powerless because the team on the Batgirls book have literally spoken about how they've fought for the meagre representation that they have. His d/ckb@bs writing is a disservice to both their characters and with each issue it becomes increasingly clear that he doesn't even want to portray Dick (the literal main character) as a capable character whatsoever and just continuously has everyone else fix his problems for him while he writes him like an unassuming idiot (I can sure see the Devin influence here jshdhdh)

So yeah, years down the line, Taylors Nightwing run probably isn't going to jump out compared to some others as the worst (so far any way) but it for sure isn't because it's good but because it's lazy. Also it's made a lot worse by problems in his other comics (being totally ignorant concerning school shootings in his superman run) and how he sucks his own cock on twitter and expects everyone to praise him like he just wrote the most progressive™️ thing yet

[leonicscorpio]

What your favorite Member of the Bat Boys Says about you: WILD ACCUSATION/ROAST EDITION.

(also disclaimer, this is meant to be a joke. If you send hate I'll only be mildly amused and then contemplate whether to share your hate or delete it based on how much traction I think it'll earn me. I understand these are a lot of y'all's comfort characters but considering the fact no one throws more hatred and criticism against these characters than the fans themselves. I figured why not join in.)

Dick Grayson

You are either inconceivably horny on main for this man, usually stemming from a childhood attraction to him from Young Justice, Teen Titans if you're old, or the Batman and Robin movie if you're even older, and also gay.

Or you're a puritanical hypercritic who wants to burn down DC Comics if they have one more character comments on his ass in a way that would make Frollo from The Hunchback of Notre Dame call you an extremist. AND you're also horny as fuck for him on the DL.

You call yourself the mom friend and secretly hope everyone else will call you the mom friend, but the only person whose life is falling apart worse than yours is Dick Grayson under Devin Grayson's penmanship.

You somehow find a way to hate and nit pick every detail of a comic of one of the most consistently written characters in DC (and that's saying something) and I don't know whether to compliment you or look mildly aghast.

It applies to all the bat boys but how's your relationship with your father? Answer the question. I said answer. The question.

Jason Todd

I have yet to meet a single person who says Jason Todd is their favorite Bat Boy and they weren't some combination of 1. LGBTQIA+, 2. Below the age of 30, or 3. currently dealing with some form of mental trauma/illness.

I understand that a lot of y'all are bitter and upset over the fact Jason had the setup to be the perfect villain to Batman, one who could even outpace the joker. But hearing y'all complain about his characterization every. single. time Jason even makes so much as a cameo is like watching someone trying to mop the Titanic.

Oh, you hate Scott Lobdell? That's a very agreeable opinion nowadays considering all that he's done. By the way, there's a rather large collection of JayRoy and Jaytimas reblogs on your Tumblr dash, can you tell me what that's all about?

As hypocritical as it is for me, a Jason fan with Jason as their profile picture, if someone doesn't tell you that they think Jason Todd is a genuinely awful person after they tell you Jason Todd is their favorite, that's not a red flag, that's literally the most direct metaphor for someone pointing a gun at your face and telling you to run.

Tim Drake

How's the victim complex my friend? No seriously, as much as I love Tim all of the bad things that have happened to him as Robin happened because he fucked around with being Robin and found out that his family was killed because of it.

You either are a brand new infant to the fandom because Tim came out of the closet back in August (although we've done been known for literally decades now) or you've been with this fandom so long that it's self cannibalism and toxicity completely doesn't phase you anymore.

I'd argue that Tim fans are the least toxic of all the fans of the Bat Boys only because DC Comics, up until recently, kind of hasn't touched Tim all that much, so people have kind of shoved him to the wayside.

That being said, the literal shipping wars this literal fuckboy of a vigilante whom everyone swears is their small uwu precious string bean has caused is on par with the ALTA/LOK/V*ltr*n Fandoms.

Damian Wayne

So you hate how people write Damian and you have a literal fight response anytime anyone criticizes Damian because he's a minor? Tell me how's your favorite Damirae/Damijon fanfiction? Answer the god damned question.

I'll give Damian fans their credit because at least 90-95% of them recognize that yes, Damian is a child, but he's one of the most horrific and abjectly abhorrent assholes to ever be written into comics (but that's also a large reason why you all like him)

To the 5-10% who think Damian is their perfect precious murder baby who has done nothing wrong, how does it feel to know you are objectively worse than even the Jason Todd Stans/Kinnies?

I haven't met anyone yet who is a Damian fan/someone who says Damian is their favorite who wasn't chaotic. And not the good kind of Chaotic.

I also have seen someone issue actual death threats to an artist over a characters skin tone exactly 3 times through fandom, for SU fans, for V*ltr*n, and for Damian Wayne.

Duke Thomas

I don't understand how you, a Duke Fan, have stuck with this fandom for so long considering I think he's appeared in like 2-3 canonical comic runs, but like good on you for making the most of it.

Understandably you all are the least problematic of the bunch because again I think there's maybe 2-3 comics where he's featured.

I guess my bigger concern is do you exist? If so would you like to be perceived as a Bat Family fan? Are you sure? Are you certain?

[jerichogender]

Grant Emerson for the character bingo 💖

THE BOYYY

I fell in love with this kid when I first read Titans (1999). Devin Grayson took the strong foundations he was built on from his previous appearances to tell a truly powerful story. After the arc where Roy takes him camping in the desert, I decided to do something I’d never done for a comics character up to that point and read through every single one of Grant’s appearances starting with his debut in Damage (1994)

At first glance, Grant’s solo book might seem like just an attempt to follow the early-mid 90s teen boy superhero trend. But what makes it special in my eyes is how it doesn’t shy away from putting its protagonist through the ringer. It creates thought-provoking dilemmas about bodily autonomy and personal responsibility and puts a pretty ordinary kid with powers that seem to bring him nothing but trouble at the center of its story. It’s a rare thing, but this kid got consistently good writing three books in a row. I even love his appearances in The New Titans and I wish his interactions with Bart and Kyle had gotten more follow-up besides that one crossover for Sins of Youth. As @miadeardn has pointed out before, Grant was always a bit out of place age-wise among the Titans (don’t get me wrong, I love his time with the team, but I do see that as more of a transitional period in his life) and having him join Young Justice would’ve allowed him to be among heroes that were also going through the unique struggles of being a teenage superhero. Thinking about how he could’ve come into his own on a team like that keeps me up at night

Unfortunately, editorial seemed to decide at some point after his departure from the main cast of Titans (1999) that Damage going to become more and more associated with the JSA because of his connection to the group through his birth parents. I say this is unfortunate mainly because this set him in the direct path of one Geoff Johns who, on account of Justice Society of America (2007), is now my mortal enemy. And I think we all know what happens to comic book characters after they get the Geoff Johns treatment

I was cautiously hopeful when I saw that Grant was being reintroduced to current canon, but the way he’s been written so far in Infinite Frontier and DC vs. Vampires: All Out War makes me skeptical that he’ll ever get his pre-Johns characterization back or have his disability from the events of Infinite Crisis be written in a respectful way. Tom Joyner and Bill Marimon put so much into crafting this character and then it all went so wrong. One book with poor characterization is all it really takes sometimes. My only consolations are the stories I make up for him in my head where nothing after Infinite Crisis ever happened and the small but vocal community of fans on this site that have a lot of love for this kid from Georgia that can’t just help but blow up. Damage lives on in our hearts 🔥