#the really good ones don't even have anything post 2003

[kiragecko]

DC Costume Timeline Links

As the internet gets harder and harder to search, I'm losing to access to one of its best features - sites by probably autistic people highlighting every costume a character has ever worn, down to issues where the boots got miscoloured.

I'm going to attempt to archive these sites. And also more normal sites that just provide good information. But I already can't find a lot of my former mainstays, so I'm asking for help if any of you know anything!

They need to actually mention dates for the costumes. Preferably issue number as well, but I'm much more flexible when we get to supporting characters. And, sadly, most of the images need to still load.

This is what I've got so far (***** means the I was praising the authour in my first paragraph, no stars means its normal):

WONDER FAMILY

Diana/Wonder Woman

https://carolastrickland.wordpress.com/the-wondie-suit/ *****

https://ew.com/books/wonder-woman-costumes-evolution/

Donna Troy/Troia

https://carolastrickland.wordpress.com/donna-troy-costumes/ *****

Cassie Sandsmark/Wonder Girl

https://carolastrickland.wordpress.com/cassie-sandsmark-costumes/ *****

https://bookriot.com/wonder-girl-outfits/ (much less complete, but still good)

(And also, since it’s available:

Hippolyta

https://carolastrickland.wordpress.com/hippolyta-costumes/ *****

SUPERFAMILY

Clark Kent/Superman

https://www.metropolisplus.com/Superman/ *****

https://www.ranker.com/list/superman-costume-evolution/pierce-nahigyan

https://www.supermansupersite.com/evolution.html (just a picture, but it IS a thorough one!)

Kara Zor-El/Supergirl

https://www.metropolisplus.com/supergirl/ *****

https://nerdist.com/article/supergirl-complete-costume-history-from-the-1950s-comics-to-the-flash-movie/

https://maidofmight.wordpress.com/minor-detour-a-dedicated-follower-of-fashion/

Karen Starr/Power Girl

https://carolastrickland.wordpress.com/power-girl/ *****

https://bookriot.com/fashion-disasters-power-girl/

http://www.dccontinuityproject.com/power-girl.html

Matrix/Linda Danvers/Supergirl

https://maidofmight.net/history/linda-danvers/costumes/

Kon-El/Superboy

Jon Kent/Superboy

BATFAMILY

Bruce Wayne/Batman

https://ultimatebatmancomicswebsite.weebly.com/the-bat-suit.html

https://batman-news.com/2024/05/29/batsuit-evolution/

https://www.criminalelement.com/the-evolution-of-the-batsuit/

Dick Grayson/Nightwing

https://nightwingology.blogspot.com/2020/09/tools-of-trade-nightwings-costume-gear.html

Barbara Gordon/Oracle

Jason Todd/Red Hood

https://ultimatebatmancomicswebsite.weebly.com/robin-i-ii-graysontodd.html

Tim Drake/Red Robin

https://www.tumblr.com/batboyblog/617193218576154624/tim-drakes-costume-through-the-years

https://ultimatebatmancomicswebsite.weebly.com/robin-iii-drake.html

https://ultimatebatmancomicswebsite.weebly.com/robin-iii---tim-drake.html

Stephanie Brown/Spoiler

https://stephaniebrown.fandom.com/wiki/Costume_History *****

https://ultimatebatmancomicswebsite.weebly.com/robin-iv-brown.html

Cass Cain/Black Bat

https://www.tumblr.com/cassbatgirlblog/650557028479221760/all-of-cassandra-cains-costumes

Damian Wayne/Robin

https://ultimatebatmancomicswebsite.weebly.com/robin-v-wayne.html

https://www.tumblr.com/damianwayneoutfits (live archive of clothes Damian has worn!)

Duke Thomas/Signal

Helena Wayne and Helena Bertinelli/Huntress

https://www.tumblr.com/helenawaynehuntress/36967260723/while-there-is-no-easier-way-to-completely-tell

Jean-Paul Valley/Azrael

FLASH FAMILY

ARROW FAMILY

Ollie Queen/Green Arrow

Roy Harper/Arsenal

https://everydayislikewednesday.blogspot.com/2007/08/roy-harper-fashion-history.html

https://bookriot.com/fashion-disasters-roy-harper/

Connor Hawke/Green Arrow

Mia Dearden/Speedy

BLACK CANARY

https://screenrant.com/black-canary-every-costume-otto-schmidt-art/ (just a picture, but it IS a thorough one!)

AQUA FAMILY

Arthur Curry/Aquaman

https://aiptcomics.com/2018/10/06/every-aquaman-costume-from-the-comics-and-movies-from-1941-to-date/

LANTERNS

Hal Jordan

Guy Gardner

https://bookriot.com/fashion-disasters-guy-gardner/

John Stewart

Kyle Rayner

https://bookriot.com/kyle-rayner-fashion-heroes/

MARTIANS

ZATANNA

https://bookriot.com/fashion-disasters-zatanna/

WILSON FAMILY

Slade Wilson/Deathstroke

Grant Wilson/Ravager

Joey Wilson/Jericho

https://bookriot.com/fashion-disasters-jericho/

Rose Wilson-Worth/Ravager

TEENS

Gar Logan/Beast Boy

https://bookriot.com/beast-boy-fashion/

Koriand’r/Starfire

https://bookriot.com/fashion-disasters-starfire/

-

I might make another post when I've got more links and have cleaned things up a bit. (I KNOW there's a Raven page, but haven't looked for it yet, for example.) Or maybe I'll just make this one nicer. We'll see. But my new, possibly spyware, firefox add-on can only do so much work! There are INFINITE "cosplay idea" sites clogging up my search results, and keeping me from finding the correct 30 year old sites designed before frames existed, with tiny images a Windows 95 computer could PROBABLY load!

[copperbadge]

Hi CB! I've followed your work for a while and I'm curious - I've seen that you do many times on a repetitive and consistent manner.......how? By the love of gods, how? What is this magic? Is it inherited? Genetic? Signed, please-halp

Hey, thanks for reading! I think you may have missed a word in the ask so I am taking a best guess at what you were inquiring about, but I'm guessing you were asking about consistent and repeat ability to write and post fiction? Gosh that sounds egotistical of me but I used to be known for being prolific and I think I'm still known for, if not having the BEST prose, at least having the ability to be of consistent quality. :)

The good news is that it is neither magic nor genetic, and one of those things that anyone can achieve -- it just takes time and a bit of effort. The secret is that I wasn't always even a good writer; what I have always been is a passionate writer. My early fanfic, from fourteen to eighteen, was actually very bad. But I did it a lot. It's hard to get truly good at something if you aren't passionate about it because you won't want to do it so often that you get good at it, but fortunately I fell in love with it. And once you're good at something you do want to do it all the time!

In my teens I wrote absolutely tons of fanfic, and if you were to read it (you can't, it's not under my name and some of it is lost to the ages) you could actually see me improving, because I started out so terribly bad. We're talking "Multiple people speaking in one paragraph" bad. But I kept writing and took feedback and when I went to college I took classes (I had a kind of unofficial minor in playwriting, including having several short plays produced) and when I came back to fandom after college I was...decent. And this you can trace, if you start reading at the start of my AO3 account where all my fanfic since 2003 is stashed; you can see I used to be more awkward in my prose, my pacing wasn't as good, what I considered relevant to include for the story wasn't as polished as it is now.

So, there are almost five million words on my AO3 account, which doesn't include anything I wrote before 2003; I'm forty-five and started writing when I was just shy of fifteen. This will be my thirtieth year writing fiction in April. If you spend that much time writing, even if you don't necessarily TRY to improve, you will learn and grow. And you learn how your own creative process works and how to wrestle with that, so you become consistent simply because you gain a kind of mental muscle-memory.

The thing is, quality and consistency is nice, but it's not necessary to enjoy either fandom or fanfic, or even writing. If you love to write, that's the best thing; you will bring yourself joy. It's one reason I never even considered making a career as a writer, because I didn't want my joy to become my job. That's not to shit on professional writers by ANY means, I have several as friends and of course I admire many well-known authors. But for me, it was important to preserve the parts I loved best, and I didn't think I could do that and still try to get a paycheck from it.

So the trick of quality, consistent writing is to love it enough to do it until you develop your skills and grow as an artist. But the real trick of any artistic expression is to love it for itself, to put heart into your work, and to do everything you can to protect what gives you pleasure. Quality and consistency are nice but if you love what you do they really, eventually, cease to matter. :)

[ailelie]

I posted before about the shifting sand parable. Even little kids know "the wise man built his house upon a rock" thanks to Sunday School songs.

I talked about how, to many in my family, my values probably seem like shifting sand. Sexuality, gender, mental health -- everything keeps changing. Everything seems to follow whims and trends. It's like we just care about being happy to the exclusion of everything else. It seems immature and foolish. Does anything mean anything anymore? Where does it end?

Houses built on shifting sand will eventually fall apart.

Except, this isn't shifting sand. Good solid rock is here. And I wish we talked more about that, about those values we can hold in common. That doesn't mean we agree on everything. Certainly not.

These are the values I drafted back in 2015 when I was first thinking about this:

Every person without exception has the right to live their best life with every chance for joy and despair, success and failure.

Every person without exception has the right to make their own decisions and have those decisions respected by those around them. (This includes the right to consent).

Every person without exception is valuable and worth love, recognition, and respect.

Every person without exception is part of the human community.

I might tweak the wording now, but I think the basic ideas there still hold.

I wish our policymakers and other leaders did more to promote a set of values on which stances could be built.

I'm reminded yet again of my freshman year of college. This would have been fall 2003, so, you know, ages ago. A friend who was then a senior in college asked me about my politics. My family is very apolitical so I'd not really thought about it much before then.

I started listing some of my stances and my friend interrupted me. He didn't care where I stood on the issues. He wanted to know what was informing those stances. Was I just going with what a young liberal is supposed to believe? Or was I making my own decisions? And, if the latter, what was informing those decisions? What was my internal compass?

I think my interest in primary or foundational values stems from that moment. Anyway.

I know I'm rambling now, but one complaint I hear a lot is that Democrats don't stand for anything.

So, I guess, I wish we had more messaging around those solid stone values. Not just to share out, but also to provide a stronger sense of cohesion around the various Democrat and liberal policies.

(I am reminded now of that monkey attachment study now, too, and how the bolder, more curious, better adjusted monkey babies were those with a stronger 'safe base.' Having a strong foundation enables boldness).

I don't care about assigning blame and relitigating the past. I care about what happens next and how we are all going to live our values (and what those values are).

[taeaura]

Yap yap yap yap blah blah blah blah more Thomas Hewitt emotional stuff

My favorite GIF of him oml so handsome

_____

Just saw a post talking about how Thomas probably never had any friends {hit very close to home}, which got me thinking about just how intensely that affected him. Humans require connections, it's essential to our survival and overall wellbeing. Thomas' main influence is his family; And let's be honest, his family isn't all that great at fostering a healthy environment. I don't blame them, I doubt they were raised any better.

Thomas already seems like a closed-off, reserved, and anxious person. His anxiety seems to manifest in small fidgets, excessive staring, zoning out{?}, aggression, and isolation. This paired with his skin condition, facial deformity, and difficulty speaking would make socializing extremely difficult for him. I doubt many people attempted to socialize with Thomas. He was probably that one kid in class who sat by themselves and never spoke up. {I used to be that kid, totally not projecting or anything..} It's fair to assume this stunted some social growth for him, and I doubt being seen as an outcast is any good for your confidence. Confidence isn't just necessary for presenting yourself comfortably, it's also essential for expressing your thoughts, emotions, and boundaries. Putting yourself out there, achieving goals and milestones.

This would most definitely bleed into his relationships {of any kind really, romantic, sexual, platonic, family.} He would not express his emotions to you. Not easily anyway. Want a man who communicates properly despite language / ability barriers? Not gonna happen. Thomas would most likely shut you out. Shut anyone out just to protect himself from further emotional pain. I doubt the Hewitt family puts any emphasis on healthy communication anyway. And Thomas doesn't have experience to model a healthy partner. I'm sure he's an affectionate person, just not by default. ESPECIALLY not during the 2003 timeline. His confidence has grown, sure, but his family has gotten even more socially isolated, making social cues less likely to be processed properly. Another thing, {which connects to the previous statement,} Thomas doesn't fully understand social cues. Not much anyway. {I've discussed this so much, I apologize for the repetition.} He's an observant, quick learner, but that doesn't mean his brain computes certain things {am I projecting? Maybe}. I don't think he'd understand that staring at someone whilst they eat isn't appropriate {to most people}; He'd probably stare into people's car windows from afar, watch people from other rooms/windows/doorways, ect. Now, that doesn't mean Thomas is a nosey guy; Because I don't think he is. He knows not to eavesdrop, and he knows when to mind his business. I think it's more of "I'm zoned out / I'm confused and trying to figure you out" type of staring.

I'm sure Thomas understands boundaries.....the family’s boundaries that is. Hoyt disrespects boundaries all the time; But Luda Mae puts him in his place when {she feels} need be. Monty just flat-out refuses to acknowledge boundaries. That guy is arguably worse than Hoyt; He'd be offending like Hoyt does if he still had legs, I'm sure of it. He's just not as vocally aggressive as Hoyt, but I'm getting off-track here. It seems like Thomas has to respect the family's boundaries, but they don't have to respect his. Nor do I think he understands how to set up boundaries. It's kind of an unspoken rule in the Hewitt household that the basement is Thomas' space. No one goes down there without reason. That's probably the only boundary they respect. {I'm sure Luda Mae gives him space and patience though.} Combining his lack of knowledge / experience with boundaries, his excruciatingly-low confidence, and his social alienation, Thomas would be very, very hesitant towards intimacy. Having to not only be physically exposed {which is such a sore subject for him,} but emotionally?? Mentally?? That's not something he's used to nor ever been encouraged to embrace. I doubt Thomas even understands sex on an emotional level. {What seems to be} His only experience with sex is through his uncles; And maybe Luda Mae's "no intimacy before marriage" lectures. And you KNOW how Monty and Hoyt view sex. There's no intimacy there; It's just the primal, selfish urges. Now, I'm sure deep down those two want genuine intimacy and emotional connection; They've just buried it so deep down to resist being seen as 'weak'. Thomas most likely picked up on this, at least some of it, which has influenced his views on intimacy. He'd really have to trust someone on EVERY level; He also might cry after, idk. OR feel very uncomfortable. Probably have a moment of existentialism and some serious rethinking to do. Not necessarily about the act itself, but how he views it and what he's been taught. To add onto his hesitance: I see a lot of fan fiction involving him and the reader getting married within 1-5 months, which just..doesn't seem too realistic to me. Thomas most definitely has a lot of self-doubt, and the family wouldn't adjust to someone that quickly. I'd say AT LEAST a year before they {the family} consider it. Anyway..this is long enough but I'm fully willing to do pt. 2 on anything I've covered before :)

TLDR: Thomas would definitely need some guidance, the whole Atlantic Ocean's worth of reassurance, and some lessons on boundaries.

____

Anyway, yada-yada, Thomas needs some guidance and emotional regulation tools, what's new - 🫀

[fluffytriceratops]

I am DESPERATE for some 2k3 Donatello dating headcanons, literally give me anything PLEASE I AM OBSESSED

𝐃𝐚𝐭𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐇𝐞𝐚𝐝𝐜𝐚𝐧𝐧𝐨𝐧𝐬 - 𝐃𝐨𝐧𝐚𝐭𝐞𝐥𝐥𝐨 [𝟐𝟎𝟎𝟑]

notes: i gotchu bestie. <3 lemme know if you guys want these for the other 2k3 turts as well! :D also sorry for taking literal ages to get this request done for you! thank you sm for requesting i hope you have a wonderful day/night! <3

warnings: brief nsfw mentions, mature language, 

tags: @thelaundrybitch @turtle-babe83 @leosgirl82 @rheawritesforfun @s-s-ironnie @post-apocalyptic-daydream @mysticboombox @drowninghell @lec743 @raphielover  @raphslovemuffin80 @squirrelfurs @bibiz82 @pheradream-15 @kikithedreamerwriter @m1dnyt3-w0lf @scholastic-dragon @moonsua1 [if i've forgotten anyone i'm so sorry please comment or dm me and let me know and i'll add you right away so i don't forget in the future!]

(if you would like to be tagged in my future tmnt x reader related work, feel free to let me know and i'll happily add you!)

i love you all sm! i'm sending all the virtual hugs and well wishes to you!! <33

---

- as usual, 2003 donnie has an obsession with coffee. so if you get this mans some coffee expect an INSTANT marriage proposal. [honestly what ver of donnie doesn't have a coffee addiction?] 

- likes to do your hair. it's calming to him and helps him think. hes watched a lot of youtube videos and stuff for it, so he knows what he's doing too. he likes to try new styles n stuff on you. everyone knows when he's particularily stressed or can't seem to figure something out because you seem to have a new hairsyle everyday until he's fixed whatever it is that's bugging him, 

- will also handmake beads and stuff to put in your hair. <3 

- makes jewelry for you, esp out of silverware and other things. it always turns out so beautifully. 

- late night drives. donnie has insomnia and his brain works a lot during the night/evening. so expect to hang out a lot with him during this time. driving at night at new york is super pretty and peaceful too. esp when it's just the two of you. [so long as you don't mind the hectic city hehe-]

- cuddling with him while he works. includes sleeping on him/in his lab when he works really late into the night. he'll later carry you to bed. 

- painting on his shell/body for funzies. and if he does the same to you don't expect it to look too great because 2k3 donnie can't draw for shit. 

- donnie will gift you homemade cards with stick figures on the cover cuz again he cant draw but he knows you'll adore it no matter what just because he made it. plus you think its funny as hell and he adores your laugh. 

- hes actually really good at photography. and he has loads of pictures of you. you two go out and take pictures together sometimes. it's always a lot of fun. and they always turn out great. 

- late night talking sessions are a normal for you. 

- donatello tries his best to get you to sleep at a decent time, but sometimes you'll refuse if he isn't coming to bed with you just to get him to go to sleep earlier. he'll probably lay with you for a while, unable to actually sleep. maybe he'll read or listen to music to help pass the time. sometimes he will also sneak back out of bed once you've fallen asleep, and when you catch him you give him a good talking to. 

- he really needs to take better care of himself. he's always putting those he cares for above himself. so you're always there to make sure he's okay and that he's doing what he needs to do to be happy and healthy. 

- you guys hardly ever fight. donnie isn't one to argue with you. he's a very gentle and kind soul. he rarely raises his voice. (but when he does you find it hot as FUCK- lets be honest--) 

- fix it felix. always fixes things for you, even if you dont ask it of him. if he's at your place and notices something needs to be fixed he'll just do it for you. even if you insist he doesn't have to, he will anyway because he loves you. it brings him joy. and honestly, you should just let him because it probably stresses him out a little thinking about how your door isn't closing properly or your car sounds funny or your light keeps flickering- 

- you like to prank him on occassion, this includes the whole "i filled my tank with the special gas-" or "i let them put premium air in my tires and they gave me a really good deal". it freaks and stresses him out, at least in the moment hehe. its very funny but keep in mind he'll get you back. 

- him reading to you sfghfdgkjhdfg (id die please-) esp if you have trouble sleeping or something. 

- coffee dates are a must. even if you dont drink coffee. 

- donnie napping curled up on your chest/on top of you. you tracing the grooves of his shell. you've learned he finds this very comforting and it helps him fall asleep. 

- hes a definite switch- lmao.

- very gentle and understanding. he's like your personal diary or therapist and you're the same for him. 

[burntheedges-updates]

over again, chapter 1

This is my updates-only blog! Follow me at @burntheedges

Joel Miller x f!reader

summary: you fell in love with Joel Miller in Austin, Texas, in 2001, but you thought you lost him and your whole family in 2003 when the world turned upside down. now it's 2024, and you find the surprise of your life waiting for you in Jackson, Wyoming. or, five times you and Joel fell deeper in love, on both sides of the apocalypse (and one time you did something about it)18+ minors DNI chapter tags/warnings: fluff, flirting, light angst, cursing, no use of y/n, no description of reader (see note below), smallish age difference (reader is 26, Joel is 32/almost 33 when they meet in 2000) (small for this fandom, anyway) (the smut comes later, y'all, we're just getting started here) a/n: Well, here we go! This is part 1. This fic is completely finished. It’s a 5+1 and for some of the 5 parts I’ll post them together (on Sundays) and for some I’ll post them separately (on Sundays and Wednesdays) just due to length. Obviously I'm posting this one early (lol). I’ll tell you whatever the schedule is for the different parts. I've paid a lot of attention to the reader's description in this fic. I've avoided skin color, hair type, body shape/size descriptions, and even clothing (except for one or two spots where you are specifically wearing jeans and boots). You are vaguely shorter than Joel. He does not run his fingers through your hair, and you feel the blood rush to your face or your face heat, but you don't turn red or pink. Please tell me if you notice anything I missed - I want this to be as inclusive as possible. word count: 1724 (for this part) series main post & chapter list | series playlist (w/ plot-related mix) ao3 | chapter 2

Chapter 1: Meet Cute

Jackson, Early Winter, 2023

You’ve been heading northwest from somewhere in Kansas, thinking you’ve never bothered going out this way, even Before, so why not? It’s been months since you saw another person. You’re not even sure the last time you spoke out loud. 

You blame the lengthy isolation for how easily they get the jump on you. 

It's just after dawn when you're rudely awakened - at first, you’re not sure why, but a second kick to your hip sends you scrambling to sit up in your sleeping bag, which is tangled around your legs. Looking around as you struggle, you realize you’re surrounded by people on foot and on horseback. Every single one of them is pointing a gun at you. You glance to the side and realize your backpack along with anything possibly useful inside of it has been kicked away from you. The woman who kicked you has a steely look in her eye that reminds you, in your half awake state, of the last boss you had Before. 

“State your business.” As she speaks you notice the two men closest to her start to fan out a bit, but you don’t dare look away from her.

“I’m just passing through, I’ve been looking for a good place to spend the winter.”

Or, that’s what you would have said, if not for the voice from your past shouting your name in shock just as you open your mouth. “No goddamn way, is that really you?”

You think you must be hallucinating, because everyone you knew Before is dead, but then Tommy fucking Miller pushes his way in front of the woman who spoke. For a moment you can’t do more than stare at each other — him with his gun hanging limply in his right hand, you with your legs still tangled in your godforsaken sleeping bag. Then you launch into motion and start to kick it away as you find your voice. It comes out shaky. Or maybe you’re shaking all over.

“Tommy? But — you’re alive? Where the hell have you been? Wait, are Joel and—“

Tommy cuts you off as he pulls you to your feet and into a tight hug. “Holy shit, we thought you were dead. Holy fucking shit.”

“We? Tommy wait, are they—“

Tommy pulls back, keeping hold of your shoulders as he looks you in the eye. He’s grinning, his eyes wandering all over your face. “He’s alive, sunshine. Or he was when he came through here about a month ago. We’re expecting them back in the spring.”

You can feel your heart racing and your whole body feels hot and tingly. You’re overwhelmed. You didn’t think you could still feel hope like this. It’s terrifying, but you have to know. “He’s- Them? They’re both alive? Sarah?”

You know the answer before he even says anything. Tommy’s face falls, his eyes drop from yours, and you feel it like a sucker punch, as bad as it was the first time around. Your knees give out even though this is what you’ve known, or tried to convince yourself must be true, for 20 years. Tommy falls gently with you to the ground.

Your baby girl. “Oh god, Sarah. And Joel, he must have been—“

“Yeah, sunshine. He thought he lost you both. It wasn’t… well. It wasn’t good.” 

You’re starting to feel numb. You have no idea what your face is doing right now, but judging by Tommy’s, it isn’t pretty. 10 minutes ago you were alone in the apocalypse, and suddenly you’re face-to-face with your almost-brother-in-law and you know, without a doubt, that your fiancé hasn’t been dead this whole time. Is this shock? It’s been 20 years since you felt a shock like this. Since you felt anything like this. 

“Tommy, I… I need to sit down.”

“Well, you are sitting down, sunshine. But get up, gather your stuff. You can come to town with us. Stay as long as you’d like.” You nod, unsteady, and Tommy guides you carefully towards what must be his horse. 

The day passes in a daze. You think you might actually be hallucinating, or still back in your sleeping bag, dreaming, because a whole, functional town? A commune, and a house they’re just going to let you have as your own? A real community? With your only remaining family, miraculously alive? It’s impossible. You float through the rest of the day and find yourself sitting on a bed in a house with indoor plumbing that somehow belongs to you, having just eaten real food in the company of the family you thought you lost 20 years ago.

You give up and go to sleep. (What else are you going to do?)

...

As you settle into life in Jackson, the knowledge that you might see Joel — your Joel, any day now — never leaves your thoughts. It’s like a drum beat at the back of your mind that only repeats his name, marking time every hour of every day. You don’t know how you’ll prepare yourself for it. How could you? You haven’t seen him in 20 years. Anything could be different. You can so easily picture him with a daughter, but it’s Sarah in your mind, not Ellie, who Tommy has told you a bit about. Every time you open those old wounds that you’ve done your best to bury it hurts like the first time. Would he still want you? Still know you? Do you still know him? Would Ellie like you? You can’t imagine not knowing Joel, or Joel not knowing you, but it’s been 20 years and people change. You’ve changed, after all. Some days you barely recognize yourself. 

You express these fears to Tommy once, but he only laughs and says his brother may be stupid but he’s not stupid enough not to want you. It’s reassuring and rude, so, exactly like Tommy. At least some things never change.

The day Joel Miller walks back into Jackson you happen to be standing on the road near the gates, talking to Tommy, and you swear he spots you in less than 5 seconds. It’s like you can’t help but look to each other first, even when you don’t know the other is alive, even when you haven’t seen each other in 20 years. You’d know the shape of him anywhere and your eyes have never stopped looking for it, never stopped catching on a set of shoulders, a cocked hip, a tilted head, only to be disappointed when it faded like a mirage. When the person in front of you didn’t fit the hole he left behind. It hurt every time. Maybe it’s been the same for him. 

Joel looks like he’s seen a ghost, and you have no idea what expression is on your face, but the moment you lock eyes all you see is the moment you first met, almost 24 years ago, like a film negative laid on top of what’s really in front of you. He’s older, of course, but so are you, and he’s still the most handsome man you’ve ever seen.

He steps towards you and whispers your name like a prayer.

Joel fucking Miller. 

Austin, Summer 2000

It was a Saturday morning in late summer, so not yet the hottest part of the day, but not comfortable, either. Your belongings were steadily moving from the truck to your new rental house under your somewhat careful supervision when movement from the house next door caught your eye. You looked up just as one of the guys from the moving company almost dropped your nightstand off the back of the truck, distracting you from the sight of a young girl, maybe about 10, rocketing out of the house next door and down her front steps. She was wearing a bright green soccer uniform.

By the time your nightstand had been righted and you looked back towards your neighbors’ house, she’d made her way to the bushes between your driveways, standing on her tiptoes and taking in all of the commotion. She met your eye and grinned. You grinned back as she called, “Hi, new neighbor!” 

You walked over, stopping on the other side of the bush to introduce yourself. “Hi there, neighbor.” 

It didn’t seem possible, but she grinned even wider. “I’m Sarah, that’s my dad.”

You looked up, realizing there was a man coming down their steps towards the two of you — the most attractive man you’d ever seen in your life. He was tall, with broad shoulders and the look of a man who spent a lot of time in the sun, tan lines peeking out of his shirt sleeves. His brown curls were a bit messy and his shoulders and strong arms drew your eye like a magnet. You caught yourself giving him a quick once over and felt your face start to warm, embarrassed, but when you met his eyes again you caught him doing the same to you. You realized you were both caught and you smiled, introducing yourself. 

“Nice to meet you, darlin’. Joel Miller, and I think you’ve met Sarah.” You felt your face turn hot at the endearment but you knew he probably didn’t mean anything by it. Southern hospitality and all. “Welcome to the neighborhood.”

You’d opened your mouth to respond when you were rudely interrupted by a crashing noise from the moving truck behind you, and you whirled around to see a box on its side on the ground that definitely should not have been. You glanced back at your neighbors as you excused yourself. “It’s great to meet you! Sorry, I need to see what that was.”

They shooed you along before you could even finish your sentence, reassuring you that they understood. “Let me know if anything broke, darlin,’ I’m pretty handy, could probably fix it. It’d be my pleasure.” He smiled at you a bit, just on one side, edging towards a smirk, and you did your best not to stare at his mouth. “Deal,” you agreed, grinning. Both you and Joel seemed unable to draw your eyes away from each other. You were stuck, pinned in place under his gaze until Sarah tugged on his arm and dragged him towards their truck. “Dad, we’re gonna be late!”

The view from the back was just as nice as the front. 

...

a/n: ch 2 is up!

taglist: @morgaussy

[galaxymagitech]

16, 18, and 26 for dick grayson!!

For this ask game!

16. What's your least favorite ship for this character? Instead of playing the "what's the worst ship you can think of" game (because honestly, that's no fun, and other people are probably better at it than I am), I'll just give a ship I simply dislike for weird reasons: Dick Grayson/Raven.

I just...don't like it. It bothers me, but I don't really understand why. I do like both characters. I watched Teen Titans (2003) and thought Robin and Raven were both awesome. I've read comics where they've interacted. But for some reason, that ship just rubs me the wrong way. I see 0 chemistry there and have 0 interest. And I have no inclination to read anything with that ship highly present. I don't have a good reason for disliking this ship, though, so it's kind of funny.

18. How about a relationship they have in canon with another character that you admire?

From both sides? Dick and Tim. Because Dick isn't a perfect big brother to Tim, but he clearly loves him, and Tim clearly knows it. Even after the firing incident, Tim and Dick still love each other and their relationship really does recover. Even if you think Tim was lying with the whole "you're my brother, of course you'd catch me," they're working together with no problems and looking out for one another in late Post-Crisis (I specifically noticed this in Black Mirror but there are probably other examples). They did have a fight, and they were very upset, but they managed to recover from that.

There's also, I think, a healthy amount of respect, which is difficult in sibling relationships. Tim absolutely hero worships Dick, but he's still able to stand up to him and call him out when he's worried. And Dick tries to give Tim guidance, but he really trusts Tim to make the right decisions in the end, such as when Tim got it in his head that he was going to try to resurrect his loved ones with a Lazarus Pit.

From Dick's side? Dick and Damian. Because Dick really, really dislikes Damian at the start. He's annoyed by his existence and thinks Damian is a brat. He certainly doesn't want to have to take care of him, on the field or off it. But he puts all of that aside, because Damian is his brother and he has to help him. Slowly, Dick is both able get Damian to trust him (an impressive feat!) and begins to love the little gremlin. At first, though? Dick is able to be a loving, supportive guardian to a kid he genuinely disliked. "We were the best" doesn't happen automatically, and it's all the more impressive for that.

26. What's something the character has done you can't get over? Be it something funny, bad, good, serious, whatever?

It's okay, Dick. You're an adult. You can curse.

(I write him as cursing, but this is just...so funny. It will always stick with me.)

[zeroducks-2]

People hating evil characters is weird to me. I guess the only characters I actually hate are annoying ones cause usually that’s not a point of their character in the story, they just happen to be infuriating. Like Slade being a bad guy is cause he’s a bad guy, that’s like his whole point as a character. Yeah he can be nuanced and worse at times but he exists to be an antagonist. It completely makes sense to me that the Tara thing makes people uncomfortable but he’s still a fictional antagonist, it’s not really a moral failing on the part of the creators.

Tbh if you've experienced these characters in any way (read TJC or watched the more recent animated movie or read Deathstroke 2016 or watched Teen Titans 2003, or whatever else features their interaction) and you don't like Slade, that's fair enough.

Loving and hating characters (and every other emotion) happens all the time and it's part of the experience. HOWEVER, I do take issues when it's people who do not know the character, who have barely ever seen them and just heard "stuff" from other fandom people, who go on crusades against said character because "they did bad stuff".

You see it in people who hate Tarantula "because she raped Dick" and they have not read one single comic in which she appears - they have no idea what she even looks like or what's her real name, but they "hate her" because they read a post in which the sexual assault was mentioned and since she "did a bad thing" they "hate her now". This has to be the most shallow fucking thing, but it's convenient because if you hate on the "bad guy" it must mean you're morally pure and upstanding and you're one of the good ones.

Back to your point, hating on a character without any kind of reasoning or nuance only because they did "bad things" is the death of critical thinking. But people out there act like characters who do shit that's even vaguely considered unethical or morally reprehensible irl need to be hated, and like their existence is some sort of moral failing from the writer's part, and it's so fucking annoying and childish.

Which leads me to my second point which is a tad more controversial, but hey I'm a bitch with insufferable opinions so here we go I guess.

I'm bothered by people who pick a character and use them as their scapegoat, and I mean collectively as a fandom. It kind of is the case with Slade but he isn't the perfect example, however the principle is the same: hating on the villain, especially when the villain is very human and makes very human mistakes, using them as the only person who is capable of doing evil and therefore acquitting every other character of anything they ever did.

With Slade it becomes that Slade is the only bad guy of his story, who hurt Grant and hurt Adeline and hurt Joseph and raped Tara and killed and maimed and tortured, and therefore Grant has no blame in what he did to himself, and Adeline is just a poor innocent woman who was hurt by her unfaithful husband, and Joey did nothing wrong and everything that happened to him is solely Slade's fault, and Tara wasn't already a mercenary hitwoman for hire who lied and cheated and killed - rather she was just a poor innocent girl who was manipulated and corrupted by the Big Bad Guy.

I don't know if you see what I mean with this, but it's very much a thing in a lot of fandoms, especially when it comes to horror media where there is a cast of controversial, "imperfect" characters. One example of this is Mouthwashing, in which (spoilers ahead of course) there is a cast composed of people who range from being downright horrible to having very human but very noticeable flaws - every single one of them is "guilty" of something, and the protagonist in particular is also the one with the most prominent antisocial behaviors. But he's not benefiting from them - Jimmy isn't someone whose life is made better by his piece of shit behavior, rather this is a person with issues and who struggles with mental health (he's suicidal and has very strong delusions), giving him a very hard time keeping his life in order. Which of course doesn't make any of the horrible shit he does less horrible, but I think it's interesting how he's (mostly) not acting out of convenience, rather he's acting out his own demons. And what the fandom did was deciding that this guy is the only one to blame, and that his shitty behavior absolves everyone else of their sins. He's effectively the scapegoat and everyone else - it doesn't matter if they act selfishly, childishly, violently, cowardly or anything really - is guileless and has never done anything wrong in their lives. Jimmy is the only one who's to blame, and the rest of the cast is made of pure perfect angels.

I've seen this happen in many many cases. And it sort of turns into a mob of people whose only fandom personality is to hate on this one guy and gather Upstanding Morality Points, and of course the natural consequence of this is bothering or even outright harassing people who instead are fans of such flawed characters.

I hate it. I'm not saying anyone should have to like a character in particular, but the way people hate on the "easy to hate" guy instead of trying to understand them, especially when it's a complex character whose action make them suffer as much as the people they're hurting, distances me from fandom spaces. People will see a feral beast of a character with their leg caught in a bear trap hissing and growling while in the process of chewing their own limb off, and will toss stones at them and call them disgusting and weird. It's so unkind and I hate it so much.

[felixblankspace]

Usagi's age in TMNT 2003 is not confirmed

And actually, Usagi's age IN GENERAL is not confirmed. Miyamoto Usagi have no canon age, not even in the comics-

You assume he is and adult but mere subtext- and a lot of people who read the comics have our own hc with his age, but as a canon answer theres none-

I bring this topic to the table since I found someone on tiktok -again- saying that Miyamoto Usagi in TMNT 2003 was an adult and that's why they hated Leosagi- and putting this google answer as a prove to their point-

This answer when you click it- it sends you to this tumblr page where is an anon who is making that claim-

I said, with all my respect- that is not a valid answer-

This is not an attack the account that has that post but mf google for putting that as an answer to the search- cuz people don't know Usagi as a character and are going to belive anything if it fits the narrative they want to create or try to justify that they don't like something-

Usagi in the crossover with TMNT 2003 is not the same from the comics- his story is also change to fit in the battle nexus arc-

HE LOOKS LIKE THIS 3 YEARS BEFORE EVEN KNOWING LEO- He don't have his daisho is this, he's literally fighting the shit he's using to carry the water or whatever he's carrying. They said he was IN TRAINING- and Usagi in training was a kid The topknot can be more of a branding thing but also can be a form to said he is not the tiniest Usagi you can get (?

When we see him later in the episode he don't have his scar-

Is a really early Usagi and a lot of people don't get that- Or is not that they don't it because they need an excuse to not liking Leosagi but really-

You.Don't.Need.An.Excuse.To.Not-Like.A.Ship

Just- Just don't watch it???

Silence the f world for the gods sake-

Even if it is problematic you can just leave it there the shit is not killing your granma (?

You can make Leosagi problematic for a thousand and one reasons, but in this version, the one that has made the most effort to mix both universes and making a genuine friendship between Leo and Usagi with its good dose of homoeroticism, it's stupid to try to justify that you don't like it by saying that It's wrong when you don't need an excuse for it-

Sorry for my rant, I'm using this to make a tiktok cuz they need this the most (? I know Usagi's age had being a debate in here too but my gods I just need this (?

[specialagentartemis]

hi artemis! a friend I made during artfight who doesn't have a tumblr account asked me to pass a question on to you!

they're wondering if you know of any good resources for researching more modern history. This is what they were interested in specifically:

"i am trying to think of somewhere i could find information about when cars started appearing in songs and i am absolutely blanking on how i could find things about this

i know the library of congress has a LOT of stuff [and a really good system for filtering the search results] but… i don't even know what i would enter into the search bar sjdhgj. cars?? songs?? the spread of motor vehicles??"

i know this isn't your specific area of expertise but i thought you might still have some thoughts, or be able to point them to someone else who could help. also, they asked me to tell you that you're very cool and they like your posts :) (i concur)

Aww, thanks! <3

Hmm unfortunately, this is not really a topic I know anything about. This is a combination topic/time period I don't study, and a method (corpus analysis) I haven't really done.

But I can talk about how I would go about it, because starting research from scratch is a specialized skill and it is Daunting.

First, I go to Wikipedia on my topic--let's try the Wikipedia page for "Lyrics." The "Academic Study" subheading has no references--pity. Ignoring most of the article text, I scroll down to the references. Scanning them, they're not that helpful, but "Further Reading" suggests Moore, Allan F. (2003). Analyzing Popular Music. That looks potentially useful! File that away.

All right, now I go to academic databases. My own university's library database and JSTOR are my first options. Let's try some keywords--technology in popular music. Hm, no, that's mostly turning back books and articles about the technology used to make and disseminate popular music, not references to technology in the lyrics. Wrong tack. Try technology popular music lyrics. Little bit better--it turns back The Bloomsbury Handbook of Rock Music Research, that sounds promising. The Bloomsbury Encyclopedia of Popular Music of the World, sounds like it could be a useful reference too. Still, this turns back a wide variety of things, none of them about cars. All right, "technology" was too broad a concept. We want to know about cars. Try cars popular music lyrics and automobiles popular music lyrics.

Aha! Here's some good stuff! "Sentiment analysis of popular-music references to automobiles, 1950s to 2010s" (Wu et al. 2022); "Experience economy in the making: Hedonism, play and coolhunting in automotive song lyrics" (Askegaard 2010); Driving Identities: At the Intersection of Popular Music and Automotive Culture (McLeod 2020); "Communicating cars: television, popular music and everyday life" (Alam 2020, a chapter within the book Race, Taste, Class and Cars). Now this is what we're talking about!

And reducing my search terms to cars in popular music, I turned up a book called Popular Music and Automobiles. Jackpot!

Tbh research is trying various keyword strings, and then sifting through a dozen irrelevant result for every relevant one. Identifying relevant-looking books and articles from titles and abstracts is also a skill. JSTOR is good but arbitrarily limited; Google Scholar is pretty good; Library of Congress has records of nearly everything but is in my experience kind of overwhelming unless you know precisely what you're looking for. University library databases are the best, if you have access to any.

However, once you've hit on something specific, the LOC is really, really good in this way: you can go to the page for the book you found--here's "Popular Music and Automobiles"--and then look at the subject tags. Automobiles--Songs and music--History and criticism is its own subject tag! You can see what other books have that subject tag!

... looks like, including Popular Music and Automobiles, it's only four. (and one of those is also McCloud's "Driving Identities," lol.) But, hey. That's two more books about the topic you didn't know about before!

These are the tactics I use when I want to research something new! Hope some of this was helpful.

[tothefiniteyou]

Something that's been in my head a while concerning the brothers and their "roles", so to speak. This is meant to be about the original Mirage comics, but applies to 2003 and IDW as well. Potentially 2012, maybe more. I don't remember the exact issues, but this WILL contain spoilers for IDW and the original comics.

Raph is the one that takes on the responsibilities no one else does/wants to. He very often has to play the part of the bad guy because his convictions are more rebellious in comparison to what Splinter teaches them, core beliefs and rules that Leo in particular takes to heart. Raph keeps his family in line through his anger, for better and worse, being the one of tough love. In volume 1 of Mirage when they retreated from New York after Leo was almost killed, he calls his brother a coward for not "finishing the job" and goes off to face the Shredder alone. He almost got killed because of his impulsiveness, yes, but Leo's always been about saving his family. So really, he had the courage to face Shredder again because it was for someone else's sake. Their whole fight was kind of gruesome and full of harsh words, but at the end of it all, Leo thanks Raph for it. It's very interesting to me. It shows that Leo, even if he was originally mad, understands that his brother was only doing it because he was scared of his family being hurt again. He sees that it was for his own good, so he expresses gratitude.

Alongside that, I've said before that it's not that Raph wants to be the leader because of the title itself, but rather that he wants freedom, and for others to listen to him. He resents Leo for holding him back, not fully understanding his brother's reasoning. He focuses more on action and less on the consequences of said actions and choices.

In essence, Raph is often the one that has to do the dirty work. His parentification in Rise is even similar to this, having to parent his brothers and be the one to tell them "no", even when it isn't his responsibility. But if no one else is going to do it, then he has to be the bad guy, even if his brothers resent him for it. At his core, he always has his family in mind, even if the execution is flawed.

Raph being thought of as the shield has always felt right to me, as shields can still be used to hurt.

On to Leo - Leo is a very existential person, and that also makes him the most spiritual. Kind of a yin and yang ordeal, with him seeing how there's a balance to things. (I would also say that he needs to assign a purpose to everything, if only to rationalize bad things. It's sort of why he has a bit of a crisis in several iterations when Splinter isn't there to guide him). He's the most "warrior-like" because of the way he values life and honors things like bushido. He'll kill to protect, but that doesn't make him callous, just "strong" (putting this in quotes for multiple reasons). I think IDW tackled this quite lovely, especially when he goes on to have a greenhouse just full of life.

However, I can't say all of this without mentioning the fact that Splinter's teachings are often flawed. I've said before that a lot of Leo's major "arcs" and "growing up" is about becoming his own person and leader, and that's still very much true. Blind Sight is my favorite story to have come from the original comics, and I think it really puts into perspective how Leo struggles to see himself as anything but a weapon. It's that bad habit of his where he must assign purpose to everything, struggling when proven wrong or having to recontextualize things. There's so much more I want to say about him and his role, but a lot of it would be reiterating my points from this post. I struggle to call Leo the sword of the team considering his words to Mikey about how, if he were to throw his katana off the roof, would that be the same as throwing himself. But in Blind Sight, he does learn that he's more than just some sword for his father to wield, and that a sword not only hurts, but protects.

People infantilize Mikey wayyyy too much in this fandom for just being the youngest, which makes me have to pick and choose my words very carefully for fear of the wrong impression. He's definitely the goofball that tends to not take things as seriously, but I think something that The Last Ronin meant to emphasize is that his "raw talent" is from a place of love. It's not that he's not the best of them all just because he lacks focus, it's that he's never seen a reason for him to have to be a warrior like that. Surrounded by his brothers, he doesn't have to try so hard. He'll watch their backs and they'll watch his. He's got the same warrior's spirit as the others, it's just that he rejects some of those teachings in his own way? Raph is often seen as the contrast to Leo, and that's typically true, but I think Mikey can be as well... In a way, Mikey has the most ties to humanity, and that's why I think he's similar to Leo in some ways. Not to say the brothers don't have humanity, but... It's so hard to word what I mean, bear with me.

Being a better warrior kind of means losing his fun-loving and go with the flow nature. He would be less like Mikey. Not to say that being good at fighting exactly equates to being deadly, but that's always a possibility, you know? IDW Mikey is such a good balance and blend of his little shit characterization and his more empathetic side. When he's the first to leave and reject Splinter's ways in IDW, this shows what I mean with him being more strong than Leo's way of being considered strong. He might not be "the best", and he might not tap into his raw talent that several characters mention, but I don't think that's what he necessarily wants. Splinter's idea of strong isn't necessarily the best.... Hopefully this section makes sense and my point gets across that Mikey is both the heart and armor of the team.

And as for Donnie... Oh boy! He has to use a gun in the original comics and actually be the one to kill (since only Raph and Leo really did that from what I can remember), and it shakes him up SO BADLY... And volume 1 just ends with him not choosing to go back to the sewers with his brothers, but to stay on the farm with Splinter for a bit. This is quite a finishing scene after ending a whole war within the city...

Donnie doesn't love his brothers any less, it just goes to show that he's never wanted to be the one to have to kill, and maybe wasn't prepared for it. While Mikey is definitely a pacifist, you can argue that Donnie is more of one. Him wielding the bo even supports this idea, as it can still be deadly, but not as lethal as his brothers' weapons. He's a very soft-hearted person that prefers to invent and give life to machines.

I hate when people think he's any less skilled in fighting than his brothers, because that's wrong! He just doesn't like violence and, dare I say it, I don't think he ever wanted to be a warrior in the same way. His intellect is a mightier and more useful weapon to him, because he can use it to keep others safe and make machines that can do all sorts of things. He'll fight to protect, same as the others, but disarming is more of his goal in the end. This makes Donnie, at least to me, both the brains and armor for the group. He's more than that, but... something something, things falling apart when Donnie is missing in SAINW.

At the end of it all, something you have to remember about all of them is that, even when they grow older, they started out as nothing more than child soldiers cultivated for the sake of revenge. Killing was always in the books, but they all have a different role on the team, and killing wasn't meant to be Donnie's. He helps with plan-making and would probably rather be support than a tank, if that makes sense.

They're heroes but but but. They're just kids, too...........Gripping my head

[batsplat]

this all makes me think—how much would casey have disliked racing against marc do you think? i wonder if vale would have gone even harder on the marc praise knowing it’d annoy casey + been even more disgruntled in 2015 when the consequences hit even harder in turn… and maybe we would have gotten a casey ranch visit even earlier had they had a Common Enemy in marc or something

yeah lol casey would've hated it, i've talked about this a few times before but the tldr is that this wouldn't have gone well at all. i mean honestly the intra-team shenanigans are the real killer more even than the aggressive riding, like back in the day plenty of people thought marc would get better as he aged and i think casey would've wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt. something like the towing would've also made casey want to strangle marc but that wasn't as bad yet in marc's early years. but the sabotaging your teammate by trying to ensure they don't get the best parts thing..... pheww very very very very low tolerance for that kind of behaviour. and if casey did in fact have to regularly race against marc, it would really only take one or two proper scraps after which marc is completely unapologetic for casey to start souring towards the kid

also, obviously this is just guesswork, but i wouldn't be surprised if casey would've been... honestly, a little bit resentful of young marc. i mean it kinda sneaks in there anyway, he's pretty firm in dismissing the idea he's going to be paying attention to what marc does with his bike at the post-season 2012 test for instance. but... y'know, just a bit of the early dani vibe where dani was the golden boy in 2006 and casey was the satellite rider getting spare parts, feeling unacknowledged, invisible. casey emphasising the machinery disadvantage to dani in 250cc and said it did him good because HE learned how to deal with shitty machinery :)), casey FURIOUS when he's beaten by dani at assen 2006... how you read those little moments in later years where casey is a wee bit patronising towards dani... or there's casey's rather, uh, interesting reaction to jorge's arrival on the scene in 2008, which you can read as displeasure about how well jorge was received and also this tinge of real satisfaction at jorge's fall from grace... plus ofc various facets of the relationship with valentino... the thing about how casey won his first grand prix valencia 2003 and then went 'happy to beat someone sponsored by the circuit :))'.... like yeah obviously casey feels resentful and bitter a lot of the time more at seven, but the point is it can be aimed quite easily at specific rivals. teensy bit of jealousy there, envy feeding back into bitterness. i don't think casey LIKES this impulse and would deny he has it at gunpoint. he really really wants to be magnanimous and wants to see himself and present himself as someone who isn't bothered by the success of others!! which, listen, i'm not saying that's completely FALSE but it's also obviously not the full picture. and idk, marc is another honda golden boy who everyone just cannot stop praising even though he's had the path paved for him unlike CASEY who didn't have particularly competitive machinery at any point until he stumbled onto that ducati seat and now everyone's so excited just because marc is immediately fast even though casey was fast immediately too until michelin started sabotaging him and... you get the point. i don't think this is the main reason their relationship would go downhill but imo it would feed into it

and yeah lol. the thing about valentino's animosity towards casey is that he basically cuts himself off the moment that rivalry formally ends - since then it's been exceedingly one-sided on the insults front. the short reason for that is that valentino never particularly HATED casey, that if anything he did his best (valentino standards) to keep that relationship friendly for a pretty long time, and then a combination of casey figuring out how to get under his skin and prolonged competitive malaise pushed them into this weird cycle where they just kind of got a kick out of hissing and scratching at each other every other week. kind of like a stress relief tactic. but once casey's gone, valentino isn't going to do that anymore and the ill will fades REASONABLY quickly, where there's really only the occasional lapse in 2013 and then basically none after that. but if casey were still on the grid? well! laguna is a big one here, because it features one of vale's very rare 2013 lapses where he does do the little *cracks knuckles* well :)) casey minded when i overtook him at the corkscrew :)) but EYE don't mind because EYE have no problem with real racing :)) unlike casey :) routine. if valentino knows casey is still around and a rival and he can get whatever bizarre kick he used to get out of trading insults with casey, he would just be like. ten times more annoying about this. given what a massive massive massive sore spot laguna is for casey on fifty different levels, i cannot for the life of me imagine he reacts particularly well to this particular chain of events. this is something he feels very strongly about, he feels wronged, it is tied to an event where he felt humiliated....... and now he feels like it's being made a joke of. again. at his expense. one that marc is actively participating in. this is one of those things where casey might not actually push back too strongly at the time but he will not forget about it until the day he dies

and if you have a few too many things like that... casey said at some point in 2013 that he didn't appreciate how marc tries to not just beat but 'humiliate' his opponents. they actually asked marc about this in a press conference but the reporter made such a hash of asking the question that marc responds to something barely related and really not what casey was getting at in any way. but if you watch that presser... well, one of the three people in shot DEFINITELY got what casey was saying about marc and thought it was VERY funny. easy enough to extrapolate from that. ofc valentino was never going to enjoy any version of 2013 that involves him being pretty uncompetitive, but idk, it's not exactly a stretch to believe he would have massively enjoyed marc driving casey insane, kind of the next best thing. (even if only in secret - one interesting thing about casey's presence is that it makes valentino's whole 'humbled fun-loving guy fighting to get back to the top but just having a laff :)' gig of 2013-14 a bit trickier to sustain. super dignified response to jerez 2013 from vale for instance where i would politely question if this completely chimes with his internal monologue. casey's truly unparalleled ability to use his words to get under valentino's skin would come through for us once again.) which is something else that i suspect doesn't massively endear either of them to casey. AND because it's casey and you get a paranoia bonus, valentino doesn't even HAVE to be showing he's enjoying it or even enjoying it at all for casey to believe he is. so that's perfect

anyway, once the vale/marc honeymoon ends... tbh i kind of conceptually struggle to imagine casey managing to stick around past 2014, like it just feels by then he'd be so so sick of this shit. however many titles he wins during that time period (i'd put my money on at least one but who knows). but sure, for the sake of speculation, let's say he sticks around at least a little longer, without being directly involved in the 2015 title fight for whatever reason. now, tbh, i think by this point his stance on the vale/marc situation broadly amounts to 'they deserve each other', and it's perfectly possible that at this stage his active animosity towards marc outstrips even his hostility towards valentino. (short term thing, over the arcs of their careers obviously valentino has the power to hurt casey in a way marc does not.) i think it's also plausible that once valentino gets his act together again competitively in 2014, there's a bit of a detente in the casey relationship and they do slip back into their early slightly edgy camaraderie. but. but. sepang 2015 presents SUCH an open goal for casey that there is no version of him that's going to be able to resist that one. it's too easy. we see this in real life too, of course casey is going to use that to have a go at valentino, how could he possibly stop himself

(one more thought here: going off the resentment and bitterness angle................................................. i mean. hear me out. it's not IMPOSSIBLE that some of this resentment towards marc ends up being quite valentino-specific. the idea is that casey looks at the 2013-14 marc/valentino dynamic and goes 'where the fuck was that energy for me'. for which there are completely rational non-casey-related reasons like 'valentino wasn't washed back in 2007', but that doesn't change the fact that marc is getting distinctly more head pats in 2013 than casey was in 2007. two full years of uninterrupted head pats. casey was being laguna'd in year two of his rivalry with valentino. how is this fair. so actually i do reckon that late 2015 would also be accompanied with just immense amounts of schadenfreude aimed specifically at this relationship completely falling apart. this real marriage of 'huh you thought you were different did you' with 'well valentino does do this to his rivals :)) what a shame that poor marc has had to discover that :))'. quite honestly i'm unconvinced irl!casey doesn't feel that way. the point is that this too manages to further decrease casey's sympathy levels towards all parties involved, though i'm sure he'd do his best to pretend he's feeling ever so sorry for poor marc. in that same super convincing tone he uses in his autobiography to describe jorge in 2008 starting to smash his body up immediately after being arrogant towards casey)

but also i don't really think valentino,, like, cares necessarily when casey does this - certainly not for more than a couple weeks - because going by real life he does seem to be able to filter out a fair bit of vitriol coming from casey's end. casey and valentino reached that really cute point of being enemies where they'd kind of already said so much shit about each other that there's basically no insult that could really make things WORSE. with some of valentino's oeuvre, if anyone else said that about casey he would still be bringing it up and be extremely not over it, but given all the other stuff valentino's said it's kind of... whatever. with some of the stuff casey said, with some guys that would be valentino's primary association with them and he'd still quietly loathe them for it. but casey was saying that stuff every other week and also aren't passionate rivalries great so. who cares! which is what gave the nadir of their relationship this real charm because they knew how to provoke each other, regularly did that, had a bit of a go at each other and then moved on. and then did it all again. something quite funny to how when casey's providing his framing of that relationship, he never even brings up any of the more wildly out of pocket things valentino said about him towards the tail end of casey's time in motogp, the stuff i think you could justifiably still be mad at!! it's really just valentino not being nice enough to him in 2007 that TRULY bothers casey... which suggests that 2012 at latest really was a bit of a free pass for both of them. like i said, cute! but anyway, the point is there's probably nothing casey could have feasibly said after sepang 2015 that would have burnt that bridge forever, and also casey wouldn't even harp on about it for TOO long once he's gotten it out of his system. doesn't care enough about marc irl, let alone in a world where they're probably enemies by this point. and there's a decent chance marc has chased casey out of honda, which can't help

anyway i don't think casey gets invited to like,, bitching sessions with valentino at the ranch because that's not really how either of them operate. i do think it'd be funny if you have this vibe in 2016 similar to how valentino rediscovered how much he loves chatting to dani in pressers, but an even wilder version of that with CASEY. and broadly both of them would probably be inclined to allow that relationship to get a bit less chilly again. feuding with three top riders at once is just unfeasible for valentino, who tf is he supposed to yap at in social settings. so i think you might naturally get to a place where casey is more venomous towards marc than towards valentino and where valentino is more *gestures* bleh towards marc and just kind of uses the good old 2007 charm on casey. AND where valentino already starts editorialising the casey rivalry as good old-fashioned honest hatred, not like this backstabbing nonsense. so no front against marc - casey CAN be pushed into that sort of behaviour cf the 2011-12 dynamic of trying to establish anti-valentino age-based solidarity with jorge + dani, but doing that with valentino is a step too far tbh. BUT implicitly a realignment is certainly possible, even though casey still semi-regularly gets overtaken by fits of schadenfreude over 2015 and valentino just filters this out or whatever. charming in its own way

[zahri-melitor]

hi hello if it's not too much trouble, what comics would you recommend for someone trying to study the batfamily characters and dynamics for a project? I don't know which writers to avoid or which runs are considered bad characterization. I know this varies with opinion but you seem super familiar with the differences between fanon and canon stuff. don't worry about keeping the list short or anything, I don't have a problem with reading a lot

Honestly, this is a ‘how long is a piece of string’ question, but I can give you some pointers.

Which 'family' characters are you looking at, and which dynamics do you want? Because the thing is, this varies significantly over time. What I can do for you is roughly discuss a bunch of different eras, and what's good content to look at in each of them.

A shortcut - you're often well served by looking at a Gotham-wide Event during the period you're interested in. Sure, people often have some objections to some of the characterisation, but if you're looking at how characters interact, they're the best place to see lots of variations.

In addition 'bad characterisation' is largely in the eye of the beholder. There's actually less agreement on what is and isn't 'bad characterisation' than you might think - it depends on who you're talking to and what stories they like. Characterisation with comics characters is best thought of as a sliding spectrum - there's a range that most people will accept, and when characters go outside it people start getting unhappy. I'll try to note major shifts or universe resets or retcons along the way though.

Pre-Crisis:

Look there is very little in pre-crisis you need to look at for this. Sometimes people will pull stuff forward for Dick and Jason as Robin or Barbara as Batgirl, but largely things stand without this.

Post-Crisis:

I'm happy to walk you through post-crisis up to 2011. I'm still getting a handle on 2011 to present myself.

The Early Days: Bruce as Batman, Dick as Robin, Barbara as Batgirl

In the beginning, there was Batman. One day he went to Haly's Circus where he saw two acrobats falling and their devastated son...you know how this one goes.

Pretty much everything set in this period is flashback stories, so they frequently retread the same ground over and over. Want to see the Graysons fall? You're in luck! Choose one of the more than a dozen versions! (I'm not going to list them all even though I like many)

Quality stories looking at this period include:-

Batman Year One (1986) - Batman #404-407. I am recommending this, yes, even though it's Frank Miller, because it gets referenced a lot. It's a decent retelling and the best work Miller's ever done for the Bat books by a long shot. Bruce's origin story.

Robin: Year One (2000) - Chuck Dixon and Scott Beatty. This is probably my preferred version of early Bruce and Dick stories, and it's conveniently got a sequel in...

Batgirl: Year One (2003) - Chuck Dixon and Scott Beatty. Barbara's origin as Batgirl and the only one worth reading. These two update the Dick and Barbara as Robin and Batgirl dynamics into post-Crisis.

Batman Chronicles: The Gauntlet (1997) - Bruce Canwell. This is a single issue about the 'final exam' test Dick took to become Robin. I really enjoy it.

Robin & Batman (2021) - Jeff Lemire. A very recent update of early Dick as Robin. If you want something recent and quick, this is the pick. The characterisation is good but I have a bunch of quibbles with the details.

World's Finest: Batman/Superman (2022) - Mark Waid & Dan Mora. Here's a current ongoing for you! A rarity in that is set reasonably late Dick's time as Robin, and it also doesn't repeat identical beats to those above. Lots of Bruce and Dick, strong Silver Age vibes in relationships, and a lot of fun. A great intro to the wider DC simultaneously too.

Robin II: Bruce as Batman, Dick as Nightwing, Jason as Robin, Barbara as...around

Honestly this is a period I'm weaker on. Jason's post-crisis run as Robin is pretty compact: Batman #401-428 and 'Tec #568-582. Jim Starlin's the writer who wanted to kill Jason off.

Batman #408-411 (1987) - Max Collins. The original post-Crisis 'Dick Becomes Nightwing' and 'Jason becomes Robin' story.

The Diplomat's Son - Batman #424 (1988) - Jim Starlin. This is the issue everyone talks about, where Felipe Garzonas dies. You should read it just to understand the debate, if nothing else.

A Death in the Family - Batman #426-428 (1988) - Jim Starlin. Jason's death.You should read this if you want to understand the dynamics surrounding these events and what actually happened.

The New Teen Titans - look I can't get my head around the numbering of NTT, but if you want to go into this there are eleventy million guides. NTT is very popular. This is Dick as Nightwing during this period, Marv Wolfman and George Perez working together, and considered by people who like Nightwing during this period as the definitive version. Jason appears in a few issues.

Nightwing Year One (2005) - Nightwing #101-106, Chuck Dixon. Now this is going to be extremely controversial, but I do actually recommend people read Nightwing Year One. It's a retcon, but it's an important retcon because it lays out the dynamics of Jason's time as Robin as comics writers have changed them to be following his death. If you want to see how comics writes Jason as the 'angry' and 'risky' Robin following his death, this is the most compact way to see how the narrative changed.

Batgirl Special #1 (1988) - Barbara Randall. Barbara's last appearance as Batgirl. Randall is Barbara's best contemporary Batgirl writer, and this is a loving sendoff for a character who was about to get shredded.

The Killing Joke (1988) - Alan Moore. You should probably read it. Barbara is shot in the spine. However if you want to skip it that's completely fine as the relevant beats have been retold almost as many times as the Graysons have fallen.

Gotham Knights #43-45 (2003) - Scott Beatty. This is probably the best telling of the fallout of Jason's death on the family, particularly Barbara's reaction. If you want Batfam dynamics this is what you should look at.

New Beginnings: Bruce as Batman, Dick as Nightwing, Tim as Robin, Barbara as Oracle, Helena as Huntress, Steph as Spoiler

This is an interesting period in that it's the first threads of what we now call the Batfamily, but they're only just starting to come together as Tim picks each one up. (No, seriously. This era is 'Tim meets people and works with them')

Also as will be the case for a while from here on, at least 50% of all content is written by Chuck Dixon. Now Dixon has his downsides - he's notoriously a conservative homophobe and his views can be seen in the text quite frequently, but he is really good at writing relationships between characters, and he loves a crossover. If you love the modern Batfam, you do have to acknowledge Dixon for his work.

A Lonely Place of Dying (1989) Batman #440-442, New Titans #60-61 - Marv Wolfman & George Perez. Tim's origin story. Very clear on the outset dynamics between Bruce and Dick.

Identity Crisis (1990) Batman #455-457 - Alan Grant. Tim's first night out as Robin in his own costume, plus early dynamics between Bruce & Tim. A tear jerker.

To the Father I Never Knew (1992) Batman #480 - Alan Grant. If you want to actually understand the foundation of Jack and Tim's relationship and how he contrasts it with his relationship with Bruce - look no further.

Robin III (1992) - Chuck Dixon. A very early Tim team-up with Huntress. This is a good place to start for how her relationship with the other Bats evolves in Gotham.

'Tec #647-649 (1992) - Chuck Dixon. Steph's original time out as Spoiler. Again foundational dynamics.

Oracle Year One (1996) Batman Chronicles #5, John Ostrander and Kim Yale. The story of how Barbara became Oracle. Stunning. Essential.

Knightfall: Bruce as Batman, JPV as Azrael and Batman, Dick as Nightwing and Batman, Tim as Robin, everyone else keeping out the way

Knightfall is huge and messy and all over the place but there is magic in here. You just have to dig. Parts I particularly like for family dynamics:-

Batman: Sword of Azrael (1992) - Dennis O'Neil. This is an excellent intro to John-Paul Valley, and get comfortable, because this is what Denny's going to write for the next 10 years.

Batman #488 (1993) - Doug Moench. JPV starts working at Wayne Corp. Tim is assigned to teach him the ropes as a crimefighter in Gotham.

Batman #500 (1993) - Doug Moench. JPV becomes Batman. Dick turns up to complain to Tim about Bruce being insufferable. It's all here.

Bloodbath #1 (1993) - Dan Raspler. This is a terrible comic BUT it also contains some gold dynamics between JPV, Dick and Tim.

Knightsend (1994) - team written. Bruce, Dick and Tim work together to help Bruce rehab from his injury and take down JPV. Legends of the Dark Knight #63 in particular is stunning.

Prodigal (1994) - team written. Dick as Batman and Tim as his Robin. The final issue, Robin #13, has Bruce and Dick's reconciliation over both the fight when Dick became Nightwing AND their fight after Jason died. Essential.

Welcome to the Family: Bruce as Batman, Dick as Nightwing, Tim as Robin, JPV as Azrael, Barbara as Oracle, Helena as Huntress, Steph as Spoiler

I will fight to convince you that this is the first true 'Batfam'. Everything prior to this is Bruce and his Robin, with occasional associates. This is where it goes from the Dynamic Duo to a network who intersect constantly.

Writers: It's a lot of Doug Moench and Chuck Dixon still.

Nightwing: Alfred's Return and Batman #521 (1995) - Alan Grant & Doug Moench. Alfred quit during Knightfall due to what Bruce was doing to himself. This is how Dick got him to come home, and the reunion.

Contagion (1996) - team written. The Event where Gotham gets the Clench (aka Ebola). Massive teamup storyline featuring Bruce, Dick, Tim, JPV, Helena, Selina, and Barbara.

Legacy (1997) - team written. Oh no, it's the Clench Round Two. Here we go again. Basically the same team, but JPV doesn't get invited after he proved he'd forgotten was a fax machine was last event, and Helena gets a more significant role.

Robin important family issues during this period: #17 (with Helena), #29-30 (with Barbara), #34 (with Helena), #35 (with Steph), #45 (with Jack Drake), #47 (with Dick)

Nightwing important family issues during this period: #6 (with Tim), #7 (with Babs), #13-14 (with Bruce), #16 (with Babs)

Birds of Prey important family issues during this period: Birds of Prey Manhunt, as it sets the tone for Barbara and Helena's relationship for a WHILE.

No Man's Land: Bruce as Batman, Dick as Nightwing, Tim as Robin, JPV as Azrael, Helena as Huntress and the Bat, Barbara as Oracle, Steph as Spoiler, Cass as Batgirl

The earthquake where everything goes wrong. The most notable addition to the writing pool is Greg Rucka. Honestly this is a 'so many parts of this are worthwhile, read it all' sort of period, but to help navigate there's a handful of really important points:-

Nightwing #20 (1998) - Chuck Dixon. The Dick, Babs and Tim reunion issue during Cataclysm. The world's fallen apart but they're back together.

Nightwing #25 (1998) - Chuck Dixon. Dick takes Tim trainsurfing

Brotherhood of the Fist (1998) - Chuck Dixon. This is a teamup with Connor Hawke involving Bruce, Dick and Tim. I love the dynamics here.

Huntress/Spoiler Special - Blunt Trauma (1998) - Chuck Dixon. The one Helena and Steph team up during Cataclysm. Get a dynamic you won't see anywhere else.

'Tec #725 (1998) - Chuck Dixon. Dick tells Bruce that he's going to become a cop.

'Tec #727 (1998) - Chuck Dixon. Another Dick, Babs and Tim teamup to take on Firefly.

Mark of Cain (1999) - Kelley Puckett. Cass's intro story.

Birds of Prey #8 (1999) - Chuck Dixon. Dick and Babs visit Haly's Circus

Robin #67 (1999) - Chuck Dixon. Tim and Dick break into No Man's Land.

Legends of the Dark Knight #120 (1999) - Greg Rucka. Team reunion in NML at the Clocktower.

Nightwing #38-39 (1999) - Chuck Dixon - Babs looks after an injured Dick in the Clocktower.

Legends of the Dark Knight #125 (1999) - Greg Rucka. Bruce and Jim finally discuss their issues. Barbara and Tim wait upstairs.

Endgame (1999) - various. Whole team works to track down Joker and some kidnapped babies on Christmas Eve.

A New City, A New Team: Bruce as Batman, Dick as Nightwing, Tim as Robin, JPV as Azrael, Barbara as Oracle, Helena as Huntress, Cass as Batgirl, Steph as Spoiler

This is the final Chuck Dixon era, the Rucka & Brubaker run on Batman and 'Tec, Devin Grayson on Gotham Knights, and probably my favourite era of comics ever. It's hit after hit after hit. Pick up any comic here. You won't be disappointed.

Major highlights not to miss:

Gotham Knights #1-12 (2000) - Devin Grayson. GK is my favourite Bat anthology book ever, but this run includes Transference. The overarching plot is Bruce analysing his team in a series of case notes. Unmissable.

Hunt for Oracle (2000) - Chuck Dixon. The US government tries to track Oracle down. Babs, Dick and Dinah make sure they fail.

Officer Down (2001) - various. Jim Gordon is shot. This is the consequences as people search for his attacker.

Joker Last Laugh (2001) - various. Joker thinks he is about to die and breaks out of the Slab. Chaos ensues. This is the one where everyone thinks Croc kills Tim, and reacts accordingly.

Bruce Wayne: Murderer/Fugitive (2002) - various. Bruce has been pushing everyone away for a while, so when he's accused of murder, they must ask the question, did he do it? Everyone tries to solve the mystery of who killed Vesper Fairchild, and Bruce goes through one of his 'am I Bruce or am I Batman' periods.

Batgirl #18 & #20 (2001) - Kelley Puckett. Cass' first team ups with Tim and Steph respectively.

Batman/Huntress: Cry for Blood (2000) - Greg Rucka. THE definitive Batfam Huntress book.

Hush It Looks Like War: Bruce as Batman, Dick as Nightwing, Tim as Robin, Barbara as Oracle, Helena as Huntress, Cass as Batgirl, Steph as Spoiler and Robin

Among the drama of Murderer/Fugitive, almost every single book gets a new writer. Jon Lewis takes Robin followed by Bill Willingham, Devin Grayson takes Nightwing, Birds of Prey gets fills until Gail Simone picks it up, Dylan Horrocks takes over Batgirl, Jeph Loeb writes Hush on Batman, Scott Beatty takes Gotham Knights. Personally I endorse basically all these runs but Grayson on Nightwing is controversial.

Hush (2003) Batman #608-619 - Jeph Loeb. Famous for a reason, this is a Bruce story that touches on his relationships with almost EVERY major character in his life (Cass and Steph miss out).

Gotham Knights - Scott Beatty. I don't know what to pick here but #47-49 is a team story of Bruce, Dick, Tim and Cass following Bane to a Kobra stronghold which shows off the developed family-like relationship between the 4 at this point.

Robin - Jon Lewis. Your highlights here are Tim and Steph on a date together (#111), and the 16th Birthday Story (#116-120) because it's essential to understanding where Tim and Bruce are at.

Robin - Bill Willingham. Jack finds out Tim is Robin. Tim quits. Steph becomes Robin. It's an essential arc.

Nightwing - Grayson. This is widely disliked but #81 is a great Dick, Bruce and Cass issue.

Birds of Prey - Simone. Helena joins Barbara on the Birds of Prey. They very, very slowly work through their issues with each other.

Batgirl - Horrocks. #38, Steph and Cass play tag. #45, Cass tries on Barbara's old costume. #50, Bruce drugs himself and Cass with Soul and they fight. #54, Barbara and Cass argue over her reading ability.

And then lurking in the background...War Games hits and tears the Batfam apart, with a doubletap from Identity Crisis.

Leaving Gotham: Bruce as Batman, Dick out of costume, Tim as Robin, Cass as Batgirl, Barbara as Oracle, Helena as Huntress annnnd Jason as Red Hood

Steph is dead. Barbara and Helena leave Gotham for Metropolis. Tim and Cass move to Bludhaven. Dick runs off to join the mob. And in Gotham, Red Hood appears.

Writers: Well we've added Judd Winick on Batman, and now have Andersen Gabrynch on Batgirl. Gotham Knights is now mostly A.J. Lieberman and no longer a good Batfam book (it's now a Hush book). 'Tec honestly isn't worth it during this period. Willingham on Robin has a handful of decent issues to start out then increasingly gets weirdly conservative with some very odd plotlines.

Fresh Blood (2005) Robin #132-133, Batgirl #58-59 - Willingham & Gabrynch. This is a Tim and Cass team up as they move to Bludhaven and mourn together.

Under the Red Hood (2005) - Batman #635-650. You know what this is. It's the Jason returns story.

Nightwing - Grayson. #100 - a strong reflection on Dick's past plus the most heartbreaking part of the Dick/Babs breakup as Dick just runs from all his problems. #110. Tim and Dick meet in Bludhaven and fail to tell each other all the bad things happening in their lives. #112. Dick and Helena run into each other both undercover in the mob. #117. Dick finally talks to Bruce about Blockbuster, and proposes to Babs.

Robin - Willingham. #134 is the pick of the bunch - Bruce offers to adopt Tim and Tim reflects on his time as Robin, though it's a solid little story out to #138 as the truth about Uncle Eddie comes out.

Birds of Prey - Simone. #76, the Babs side of the breakup. #83-84, Helena with the mob and encountering Dick. #90, Helena gives Bruce the new compiled mob data handbook and Bruce compliments her.

Batgirl - Gabrynch. This is a strong well loved run for the build up to Cass' final fight with Shiva, but for Batfam you can't go past #67, when Cass reunites with Babs. Also Cass hallucinates Steph twice in this run (#61 & #72).

Then Infinite Crisis arrives and we all move a year into the future.

One Year Later: Bruce is Batman, Dick is Nightwing, Tim is Robin, Jason is Red Hood, Damian arrives, Cass eventually returns to Batgirl

At this point Barbara and Helena are largely doing their own thing with the Birds of Prey and won't return to the Batfam until Reborn.

New writers all around! Adam Beechen and Fabian Nicieza on Robin, Marv Wolfman and Peter Tomasi on Nightwing, Adam Beechen on Batgirl, Grant Morrison on Batman and Paul Dini on Detective Comics.

Face the Face (2006) Batman #651-654, 'Tec #817-820 - James Robinson. The Bruce and Tim story that set up Tim's adoption.

Batman and Son (2006) Batman #655-658 - Grant Morrison. Damian's introduction to the family.

Resurrection of Ra's Al Ghul (2008) - various. Ra's tries to kidnap Damian to steal his body. Bruce, Dick and Tim go to rescue him. Dick and Tim's subplot involves the highest point of their brotherhood as Dick talks Tim out of trying resurrect his lost dead.

Robin - Beechen. #156, the suicide prevention issue, for Tim and Dick. #163, Tim and Bruce on their first Father's Day. #165, Tim and Bruce working on a car together.

Robin - Nicieza. Steph's return as Spoiler. #177, where Jason thinks he can recruit Tim (and fails miserably).

Nightwing - Wolfman. You know what? #117-122, the 'Jason dresses as Nightwing and harasses Dick and turns into a tentacle monster' saga. Does everyone like to say it's out of character? Yes. Is it Jason being just as annoying as he will proceed to be all the way to 2011? Also yes. That's Jason's post-Crisis character.

Nightwing - Tomasi. Freefall, #140-146. This is just a beautiful encapsulation of Dick's many connections, of his teamwork with Bruce and Tim, and of what makes him tick.

Heart of Hush (2008) 'Tec #846-850 - Paul Dini. The premise is ridiculous, but it's about Bruce and Selina, and about Dick and Tim helping track down Hush.

Batgirl (2008) - Adam Beechen. Beechen after squiffing it with the Evil Cass saga, gets to undo the damage to Cass's character and return her to the family. I think it's a pretty successful job, despite Dick spending the entire book holding the idiot ball so someone can be unsupportive. Cass gets adopted. Tim and Barbara never lose their faith in her.

Battle for the Cowl: EVERYONE IS FREEFORM

Everyone will tell you this is all horribly out of character. They're wrong. Come for Fabian Nicieza doing hard work to actually set up characters in the places they need to be for Reborn.

Battle for the Cowl: the Network (2009) - Fabian Nicieza. Oracle and the Birds of Prey have returned to Gotham but for reasons they're not calling themselves the Birds of Prey, so it's the Network.

Oracle The Cure (2009) - Kevin VanHook. Early set up for Wendy Harris' future plot. Babs gets the mentoring itch again.

Azrael: Death's Dark Knight (2009) - Fabian Nicieza. A new Azrael for a splinter faction of the Order of St Dumas appears. Dick and Babs are immediately suspicious (and Dick has to be talked out of immediately kicking the Azrael's butt just on the SUSPICION it might be JPV).

Also the main event books happen and everyone yells at each other a lot about who should be Batman.

Batman Reborn: Bruce is missing, Dick is Batman, Tim is Red Robin, Damian is Robin, Jason is Red Hood, Barbara is Oracle, Steph is Batgirl, Cass is Black Bat

New titles! New writers! Things all over the place! People who like Jason are going to claim all of Jason's appearances are once again out of character, but Jason fans claim that about every time Jason breathes outside of UTRH, Lost Days and a small handful of very select stories after Flashpoint. I'm just saying, villain Jason is pretty consistently irritating between 2007 and 2011.

Red Robin #1-12 (2009) - Chris Yost. Not only Tim's new costume arc, but a great look at Tim's centrality as a character to the Batfam in the number of contacts he calls in at the end of the run.

Red Robin #17 & #25 (2010) - Fabian Nicieza. Tim and Cass working together as siblings and backing each other up.

Batman & Robin #20-22 (2011) - Peter Tomasi. I would strongly argue this is the best arc in B&R with the best characterisation.

Batman & Robin (2009) - Grant Morrison. Look, a lot of people like the foundation of Dick and Damian's relationship found here. Also Jason shows up to be a pain.

Streets of Gotham (2009) - Paul Dini. There's a bunch of good storylines in this anthology book, but #5-6 with Dick, Helena and Kirk Langstrom is one I particularly like.

Batman #703 (2010) - Fabian Nicieza. The best Dick, Damian and Tim team-up issue of Reborn.

Gates of Gotham (2011) - Scott Snyder. The masterpiece of Batfamily content. Dick, Tick, Damian and Cass all feature in this and all 6 possible relationships are shown in different parts.

Batgirl #3-5, #17 (2009) - Bryan Q. Miller. Damian and Steph team ups, plus a look into the tension in the Dick and Barbara relationship at the time.

Birds of Prey #10 (2011) - Gail Simone. Barbara discusses her new realignment of how she's working as Oracle and focusing on the Bats.

The Black Mirror (2010) 'Tec #871-881 - Scott Snyder. Some of the best writing of Dick as Batman during this period, and a look into his relationships with Jim Gordon, Barbara, and Tim particularly.

The Return Home (2010) - various. Bruce comes back to Gotham after his 'death' and checks in on everyone.

[taffycandyqt]

Hiii!! I’m literally obsessed with the last two Casey hcs posts you’ve done!! Can I please humbly get hcs about both 03 Casey and April with a boyfriend who has a nose stud and bridge Piercings please! Or just a bf who really likes piercings!!! 💖💖 (PS I really like your writing it’s really fun!!)

Eheheheheh I'm glad you like my writing!😍 Ngl, I'm surprised that so many people have requested 03' Casey. But like, I also totally understand.

BF with Piercings

2003 Casey and April (separate) x Masc reader

Warnings: Mentions of piercing infections (no one has them, just talks about them. Not in depth)

Fluff

April:

She doesn't really know what to think at first.

She's never really been around a lot of people with piercings aside from the basic one on the ears.

So safe to say she doesn't really have an opinion when she first meets you.

The more she gets to know you though, the more she likes you.

And the more she likes you the more she begins to associate piercings with things she likes.

So safe to say after a while she beings to really like them!

You ever remove one of your piercings she'll be very confused.

She won't say anything but in her head she'll be like "what is happening".

She wouldn't really get any piercings of her own to match, she doesn't think they'd look good on her.

That being said she will openly admire your piercings and let you know which ones she likes the best one you.

She will get worried though it you get/have a tongue piercing though.

Really doesn't want you getting gingivitis or any other mouth infection you.

Overall she's so cute with you, she just loves you so much and loves how sparkly they make you look.

Casey:

Lowkey associates piercing with the purple dragons, not as bad as tattoos though.

(Pray you don't have both cuz his dumb butt will NOT trust you for so long)

After he gets over his initial bias though and realizes your a pretty chill dude he'll think they look sick.

He might even get a few to match you even!

Do be sure to teach him how to take care of them though cuz bro will definitely get an infection if you don't.

The guy is so reckless.

He'd probably get hired for som electrical job and either get shocked in the face due to his piercing or somehow get it ripped out.

Honestly it might be best if you didn't let him get piercings.

When you guys cuddle he'd kiss each of your piercings.

If you ask him why he'd just say because he love you.

In reality tho, bro has no idea why.

Just impulse, it just seems like fun🤷

[charlidos]

I keep thinking of everything Orlando said about Viggo in this interview from 2013, since it's so heartfelt. And I feel I need to delve a little deeper into his words. VERY deep.

"That's a very easy question for me to answer. VIGGO MORTENSEN."

Viggo is definitely in a category of his own, in Orlando's mind (and I think most would agree!). He answers Viggo so quickly, without any hesitation. He's without question the one who influenced him the most, despite working with all those other wonderful people. And I bet O would do anything to have a reunion on screen with Viggo. (As would I.)

"I sat next to Viggo Mortensen [...] every day for TWO YEARS nearly."

Viggo started filming mid-October 1999 and the original shoot ended at the end of December 2020. That's 14 months, not 24 months... (They didn't do any reshoots together, O only came over to see Viggo at those final reshoots and waded across a beautiful, moonlit river and O said he was in love with V... sort of). So O added a significant amount of time spent with V. Why? Because it felt like a lifetime? O himself spent 18 months in NZ, including those months of preparation, when Viggo definitely wasn't there, since we all know he arrived at the very last minute. I wonder if, in retrospect, it feels like Viggo was there the whole time? Or if O still remembers, for real, that there was a Stuart-phase too? (But that's a topic for a whole other post.)

"Viggo Mortensen had the biggest impact on me in terms of approach, dedication, intention and artistic outlook."

It feels like O would count basically everything included in life here... It feels like Viggo was his entirely world, for a while. It's actually weird how they ended up in quite different places in life, fame and work. Viggo lives mostly far away from Hollywood while O lives more or less in the middle of it. And I always wonder in what way O brought Viggo's role model with him to his work. Hopefully at the very least by being a good person, treating everyone with respect.

"I'm nowhere CLOSE to how gen.. how good he is as an artist. I wouldn't even put myself in the same category as an actor."

There really is no limit to O's admiration of Viggo. It's like he's a god. And maybe that also means a little unattainable, perhaps? There is something wistful about the way he speaks about Viggo, even when he's idolizing him to the max. Maybe because he fervently wishes to be near this genius artist again? To absorb his greatness again. Maybe because O feels he can't live up to his ideal/his idol? Because he lifts Viggo to the skies, but talks himself down, a bit.

"As a human being he had a very big influence on me. He's a very generous soul, a very dedicated soul."

It's obvious that Viggo's influence on him isn't at all limited to work, but also includes how to be as a human, how to live your life. O may be a buddhist, but really, V is his spiritual guide, his sensei, his god. His Viggod. (Let us worship.)

"He was like a mentor, without me even knowing that's what he was doing because I was probably too young to really understand and appreciate it at the time."

If you look at all the 2947294 times he's said how much he admires Viggo, how he was a mentor, how he wanted to BE Viggo, even back in 2001-2003, it's a little difficult to see that he didn't appreciate it at the time... I think he DID appreciate it, it's just now he's being sentimental about it. I think he just misses those days with Viggo, he wants to go back. Don't we all feel like that about a happy past memory? Like why didn't I see then how extremely good that was? Even though you did, since you were indeed happy. It's just that you want to go back to those moments, and truly savour them, since you don't know exactly how much they'll matter until they're gone.

"As I'm older now and I look back, I always think wow! Just the person that he was, the actor and how he was, with me, was so wonderful."

I kind of want to add O's own words "it makes me sound like I'm in love with the guy". Because yes, that is indeed what this sounds like. The way he says "so wonderful" just has this very "sigh! Viggo is such a dream!" tone. But again, it also sounds so very wistful. It's a cherished memory, but it's also something lost, I feel.

"We trade emails. We were out of touch for quite a while."

It really is no wonder he's feeling so very sentimental about those days with Viggo. They lost touch for "quite a while" (since around 2008 - since they both met new people...). In my ears, it sounds quite sad. From being a part of Viggo's every day life, to losing touch and trading a few emails (which neither of them seem to be that fond of). I wonder if Viggo got in touch to congratulate Orlando on becoming a dad? And that's why they started communicating again?

"But you know, Viggo's an artist. He's not just an actor, he's actually an artist."

To me, it sounds like he's explaining why they were out of touch for a longish period of time. Otherwise I don't understand the segue from saying they're trading emails. In my view, he's saying they lost touch because of this trait, because of Viggo's artist personality. Or perhaps just that he's very busy, having so many arts to pursue, so many talents to hone. Like Viggo is someone who is a little hard to hold on to. He had him daily, to himself sometimes even, for all that time in NZ, that the contrast must have seem huge. O was extremely busy after filming LotR, but I think what he's talking about is the period from around 2008 until a while before this interview. O wasn't quite as busy then, I believe, work-wise at least. Except for having a kid... But I sense that for O this smarted a bit, this absence. Of course, if you add the dimension of them possibly having a love affair before, then perhaps this distance happened because of a break-up. Which might have been painful. And would explain that trace of sadness in how he says this.

"He can paint, he can write, he can sing, he can dance, he can play music. He can do it all. He can take you fishing, he can take you into the wild. He's the guy who does it all."

I can't get over how much of a fanboy O really is. His admiration for Viggo is through the roof! The sky is the limit here, Viggo really is godly, the one you can't quite reach, the perfect man, the unattainable goal. O spent every day with him for so long, and yet he can't find fault with him. The only problem is that he's out of reach for O now. But perhaps O thinks that's his own fault, never Viggo's? Also, we know Viggo took O into the wild - and got lost. O doesn't blame him for that either. I guess that just turned into a magical adventure, particularly with time, Now he probably thinks of it as a perfect night, spent with the perfect man, forgetting the mosquite bites, being thirsty, being scared. I do wonder if O has a little shrine dedicated for Viggo at home. Incense and photos and all. And if they once were in love, O is definitely not over him. And will never be, I guess.

"Most men WISH they were Viggo Mortensen."

Again, Viggo has no bigger fanboy. He already said this once before, back in 2001. But then he said he himself wanted to be Viggo. So that never changed. Still hasn't changed, I imagine. When you see him press himself into Viggo at the LotR premieres, it's like O wanted to melt into him, become part of Viggo. Maybe that's what he meant by being Viggo? :)

"He's devastatingly handsome and cool."

O says this a little off-handedly, somehow. A little quietly. I love that he adds that extra adjective, he's not just handsome, he's devastatingly so. Nothing is ever normal with Viggo as far as O is concerned. Viggo is the perfect man, after all.

"He would hate me. Viggo, I apologise, I apologise, please don't hate me. It's all love. He would hate the fact that I've sad any of that, but he's that kind of guy too."

O knows Viggo pretty darn well. He spent such a long time with him, seeing his every day mood, seeing him under stress, working, on holiday, out in the wild. Really most aspects of life (except, I guess, normal life outside NZ - but then, what do I know? Maybe he did that too?). So he knows how self-effacing Viggo is, how humble and not prone to any narcissism. But it also implies that Viggo perhaps isn't that good at accepting compliments? He probably doesn't like being fawned over; maybe one reason he prefers to live outside of the rather narcissistic Hollywood bubble. O seems to regard this as another amazing trait Viggo has. Not only can he do anything, he also never brags about it. For some reason, this statement seems a little sad as well. The way he speaks to an imaginary Viggo - whom he hasn't seen in a long while, afraid (maybe not 100% seriously, but still, a little) of ruining their maybe frail rebuilt friendship.

All in all, as lovely and loving as O is about Viggo here, it's also so rife with melancholy. O adores Viggo so much, I definitely feel he misses him terribly. That maybe he feels he lost him along the way, regardless of whose "fault" it is, if anyone's. And regardless of what kind of relationship they used to have. There's a Viggo-shaped hole in O's life. I get the feeling this is still true for O. I hope they did rekindled at least their friendship at one point.

I would love to hear Viggo speak of O one day too.

[velvetvexations]

i refuse to watch the clone high revival.

IT AIN'T GOOD

This is my full review I posted in a server back when it aired:

The cast changes are one of the biggest issues. It completely throws the whole dynamic off because they lost Ghandi, who, admittedly, was inconsequential in terms of long term character relationships even if he was like half the show, but they add THREE new people who are all supposed to be way more relevant to the serialized story. Two fall very flat and one is okay but still misplaced. Let's talk about that. Confucius, at first, seems like the obvious 1:1 replacement for Gandhi because he's a cheery dude who partakes in silly antics. He's not a full Gandhi clone [copy] because unlike Gandhi, who had a habit of just assuming he was cool and proceeded to act like it, Confucious is, like, trying to get popular on Tikstagram, I guess? That honestly didn't really come up a lot, he just sort of drifts around being there whenever they need a guy who's not JFK or Abe. Then near the end he ends up in a relationship with Harriet Tubman, which is like, okay, because she's the only character even more generic than he is. Seriously, there is NOTHING about Harriet, absolutely nothing, I can say about her personality beyond "once was briefly concerned about turning into a wine mom". Her design being completely unrecognizable as a historical figure really plagues her whole character, like I truly in my heart of hearts believe that if you read the scripts they would all say "TBD Woman of Color".

Which brings us to the sidelining of Cleo. In the first season, Cleo was a major character and focus of several episodes. She was the person JFK was dating, that Abe wanted to date, and that Joan was rivals with. The entire show revolved around that relationship chain. So it's super fucking weird that Cleo goes several episodes into the second season before she gets more than a handful of lines. Here's why I think that is: Obviously, the second season had to be finished or very nearly finished by the time the Cleopatra [Queen Cleopatra (2023)] stuff blew up recently, but I think even before that we've hit a point where people are a lot more aware that Cleopatra was not Egyptian Egyptian and that her portrayal as such in the first season would get a little more side-eyed. This is even more true considering the mandated loss of Gandhi, as she and him were the only non-white leads. Adding two or three more PoC characters made sense! But being so awkward with the handling of Cleo, who did at least manage to wiggle back into the main plot a little, was still weird, and it sucks that two of the three added PoC characters were so badly handled. So which one worked? Frida Kahlo was pretty cool. I don't know nearly enough about the IRL person, but I can at least define her character on the show as the hyper-chill laid back girl and she had several funny jokes, and based on the little I do know of who she is, they referenced her being an artist several times as well as her distinctive physical appearance. Also, apparently her bisexuality, because Frida ends up with Cleo. And, you know, that's fine, but fucking Cleo? Can I please get an episode or three or six or an entire season just about Cleo realizing she's gay, because fucking what? It comes out (ha) that Frida likes Cleo and from there it's like, cool, she just has to have the courage to tell her, but that makes no sense. Even in this season Cleo has multiple jokes about being The Girl Who Is Hyper-Competitive And Puts Down Other Girls, like from top to bottom the stereotypical cheerleader of 2003, because, hey, the whole premise is that the clones were frozen in 2003 and were just unfrozen! can I get anything dealing with that beyond Abe almost saying the r-word in the first episode? *The old clones are from 2003, the new characters were raised since then and that generation gap is actually interesting when properly explored which it barely fucking is.

Okay. Moving on. There's another new character, Christopher Columbus's clone who goes by Topher Bus because he doesn't want to be attacked for it, and that's the first of several funny jokes we get from him that make him way more likable than the show wants him to be. He's given the early flaw that he's a dick online, but not even in a racist way or anything like that? In fact, he's generally shown to be pretty woke, and the main cast casually shove him out of the way when he tries to get involved with things! If they wanted to depict someone who like, pretends to be woke but really is an asshole or something, they do a terrible job of it and have him come off more like someone who's trying but keeps getting kicked for literally zero reasons. "Oh, but he's mean online!" Yeah, to JFK, who was an asshole like literally last week from the perspectives of the older clones. I don't mind JFK getting hit with the likability stick, but like with Cleo being into women it comes out of nowhere aside from the Abe Says a Slur joke where that contrasts JFK being told he's so sex positive for a lame cringe reference to wanting to fuck and you're clearly meant to think "ah, the roles have been reversed, now JFK is just a confidant bro while Abe is in danger of being an angry loser incel", but it just! Needs! More! Development than that! One interesting part of that dynamic flip is that now instead of Joan secretly pining for Abe while Abe openly pines for Cleo, Abe is secretly pining for Joan while she continues to date JFK as in the first season's finale. It gets kind of lost in the politics of the gender swap, though. Like, Abe is now in that incel space, and he tries to manipulate Joan and then feels real bad about it and stops, but taking the way that's framed with other things that happen this season it's like, oh, it's bad for a guy to manipulate a girl like this, even though Joan did that exact kinna thing back in season one and it was more just "lol wacky hi-jinx!". I'm not trying to be all Misandry Double Standard here, but it's one more reason why it would always be really hard to modernize this show in the first place. Another thing about Abe along similar lines is the musical episode, where a big deal is made of Abe having White Guy Confidence, and that is fucking astounding to me. Like, what? Abe is a constantly anxious loser who is fully aware of that fact, I get that White Guy Confidence is a thing but why the hell is Abe getting tagged with it and not JFK, who absolutely has always suffered White Guy Confidence? Beyond the fact that JFK is now a cinnamon roll out of thin air and Abe's new arc is about avoiding the MRA trap?

In that same subplot you had Sacagawea, George Washington Carver, and Kublai Khan fighting to be exceptional enough to shine despite Abe's white mediocracy, and again like with the primary additions nothing is ever done with either who they were or who they are now. They are literally just there because Non-White, which I want to stress I'm not railing against as a concept, but their lines could be given to literally anyone. GWC was actually in the first season, I'm not sure about the others, and there were some Goddamn peanut jokes! Maybe boiling him down to peanuts is an unconsciously racist meme, as is boiling down all of Black science to "the peanut guy", but if the new series is above that then maybe use fucking someone else you are comfortable reflecting in a humorous cartoon fashion that people will understand? It's not necessarily a race thing, like "oh they were overly cautious with the PoC characters". I can think of one joke offhand - not that it was the only one, just the only one I can think of - where the minor characters had a reference to their historical selves, and that was technically delivered by JFK. Between that and how generic Confucius and Harriet are, I feel like the whole idea, the first word in the title, just completely went out the window. In the first season, beyond spear-carrying "some bit character in this large crowd needs to provide a reaction to something", you'd never have an extended scene where a minor character wasn't making a historical reference. It might seem logical to allow them to be more than that, but think about it: these are, after all, minor characters. With the main cast, not every line has to be Nothing Bad Ever Happens to the Kennedys, but it's like when The Flintstones has everyone go to New Rock City to see The Rockles play a 60s pop song. It's like, what in God's name is the point then?

A few days later:

Okay. I think I've mediated on it enough. I can now give my opinion on a reworked season two. Here's what I would have done, assuming only that the mandate Gandhi be absent is absolute: The group dynamic more or less starts the same, with Joan dating JFK and Abe pining for her, it's a great reversed setup. Abe starts to drift in an incel direction, but Topher is there to provide the "don't get this bad" warning that keeps him on the straight and narrow. Joan and JFK quickly realize they aren't working out, and Joan figures maybe she wants to try lesbianism, because she just seems so much like she would be a WLW. She starts to go out with Frida while JFK teams up with Abe and basically acts as the new Gandhi in terms of silly comic relief who's often hanging out with the protagonist. They support each other in Abe getting with Joan and JFK getting back with Cleo, who's started going out with Topher partly because she's desperate for a boyfriend she actually enjoys being with and partly because she really hates having lost both Abe and JFK to Joan, but Topher is actually also in love with Joan, which puts him at odds with both Abe and JFK. Eventually Joan realizes she isn't gay but Cleo realizes she is and Cleo and Frida get together, which is extra emotionally satisfying because Joan lost someone to her this time. The wacky misadventures of Principle Scudworth and Butlertron are basically the same as they are in season two as it exists, the addition of Candide Sampson wasn't bad at all and overall those b-plots were pretty good with the exception of the really terrible Butlertron origin episode, but the end result in the season finale is all the clones being frozen again just as Joan is about to pick between JFK and Abe. Confucious and Harriet Tubman are not present.

At the time I did not propose further characters of color to replace either Confucious and Harriet and would have to think on it a lot to figure something out. Probably people other than me would be better at selecting good fits that are recognizable to an American audience. I also didn't solve the issue of Cleopatra not being Egyptian, but maybe they find out she's actually the clone of a less well-known Egyptian woman who started claiming to be Cleopatra for the clout? That's certainly something Cleo would do.