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deception-united · 26 days ago

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Let's talk about writing dual POVs.

Writing a novel with a dual point of view where two different characters share the role of narrator can add depth, tension, and complexity to your story, but it also comes with its own set of problems and challenges. Like, how do you ensure clarity between perspectives? How do you keep both characters engaging? And most importantly, how do you make both narratives feel like parts of the same novel instead of two separate stories? Here are some tips and strategies to consider, before and when writing.

1. Ensure both POVs are necessary.

A dual POV should serve the story, not exist just because it seems interesting. Before committing to this structure, ask yourself:

Could the same story be told just as, or more, effectively from just one perspective?

Do both characters bring viewpoints that are unique and essential to the plot? What does this character’s POV add that we wouldn’t get otherwise?

Does each POV contribute to the novel’s themes, conflicts, or emotional depth?

Does it move the plot forward, or is it just there because I like this character?

If the answer isn’t an easy 'yes,' reconsider whether both POVs are truly needed. For example, in a romance novel, it might be better to only include one POV, since knowing there are feelings from both sides can take away tension and make it boring for the reader.

2. Choose a primary protagonist.

Even though you're going to be featuring two points of view, it’s essential to have one central character who anchors the story. This character serves as the thematic and emotional core of your book. Consider:

Which character’s perspective starts the story?

Which character’s perspective ends it?

Who undergoes the most significant transformation?

While both POVs should be compelling, having one clear primary character ensures your narrative remains cohesive.

3. Make each POV distinct.

Readers should be able to identify whose perspective they’re in without needing a chapter heading to tell them (although this is helpful and I do recommend including an indicator like this). You can differentiate this through:

Voice & tone: Their word choices, speech patterns, and internal thoughts should reflect their unique personalities. (See my post on character voices for more tips on this!)

Observations & focus: What each character notices and how they perceive the world will differ based on their backgrounds and biases. What details do they focus on? How do they process emotions? For example, a noble-born strategist will notice different things than a street thief. Sentence structure & style: Ties back to voice & tone—a poetic, introspective character might have longer, flowing sentences, while a blunt, action-driven character may have short, clipped phrasing.

**If you can open to a random page and easily recognise the character’s voice, you’ve done it right.

4. Interweave the two arcs effectively.

Both characters should have distinct yet interconnected arcs—even if they don't meet or interact until later on, or at all, their stories should be able complement or contrast each other in a way meaningful and comprehensible for the reader. Examples:

Parallel arcs: The characters face similar struggles but react differently (shows contrasts).

Intertwining arcs: Their paths cross at key moments & affect each other’s journeys.

Foil dynamics: One character’s success may mean the other’s failure—builds tension and stakes.

5. Smooth transitions

Switching between perspectives should feel natural, not jarring. Consider:

Consistent switching: Like alternating every chapter or at key turning points, or making one character dominant (the main focus) and the other occasional (slipping into it when necessary).

Strategic cliffhangers: Ending one POV on a suspenseful moment can keep readers engaged through the shift (though be careful not to make it so that the reader is skimming through one POV just to get to another).

Mirrored/contrasting scenes: A reveal in one POV can recontextualise a previous scene from the other.

6. Avoid head-hopping.

This is when you suddenly switch between characters’ thoughts in the same scene without a clear break. This can be jarring and pull readers out of the story.

Bad example: Lena glared at him. She was furious. Why didn’t he understand? Jonah sighed. He wished she would just listen.

You can't tell whose head we're in, and even if it was indicated at the start of the chapter, it makes it confusing and frustrating.

7. Build suspense

A well-timed POV switch can escalate tension rather than just pass the baton. Examples:

Character A is walking into a trap; meanwhile, Character B is on the other side of the city, knowing but unable to warn them (creates dread).

One character’s assumptions might contradict reality. (For example, a spy might believe their cover is intact, but another POV reveals they’ve been exposed.)

Character A misinterprets Character B’s actions as betrayal. Switching to B’s POV clarifies their true, but hidden, motives (creates emotional whiplash).

8. Deeper character exploration

Dual POVs can let readers experience both sides of a relationship, rivalry, or power struggle in ways a single POV can't. Examples:

Character A sees themselves as a hero, but Character B’s POV reveals their arrogance (unreliable narration).

Different emotional reactions—the same event might be tragic for one but a relief for another.

Common Pitfalls

Dual POVs might not always be appropriate for your specific narrative, and could:

1. Remove tension.

I briefly mentioned this, but one risk of dual POVs is reducing suspense, especially in genres like romance or mystery. If readers see both sides of a conflict, they might lose the uncertainty that drives engagement. However, you could try:

Using unreliable narrators

Keeping certain information hidden from one POV

Ensuring there’s still conflict and misunderstanding between the characters

Switching between past and present

Keeping one POV until the climax or for a specific plot twist, which can be revealed through a different POV

2. Break story flow.

If one character’s arc lags behind the other’s, readers may get frustrated when switching perspectives. Ensure each POV maintains momentum and contributes to the overarching plot.

3. Make readers favor one character.

If readers strongly prefer one POV, they may skim or disengage during the other. To avoid this, make sure both are equally compelling, both characters have stakes that feel urgent and meaningful, and each has their own distinct emotional arc that readers will be equally invested in.

4. Make it redundant.

If both characters are just retelling the same events with minor differences, the second POV becomes unnecessary. To avoid this, use POV shifts to enhance the story, not just repeat it. You can use the second POV to:

Show what’s happening when the other character isn’t present

Reveal secrets, misunderstandings, or unreliable narration

Build dramatic irony (let the reader know something one character doesn’t)

Happy writing!

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#writeblr #writing #writing tips #writing help #writing advice #writing resources #creative writing #writing techniques #character development #writing community #on writing #writers #writers of tumblr #writerscommunity #dual pov #deception-united

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wings-of-fire-confessions · 2 months ago

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Okay I actually haven’t picked up the books in a while and refuse to do it just for this ask so I do apologize if I’m wrong abt smth, I am a little pissed off that the dynamic and relationship between Turtle and Moon isn’t brought up or focused on more. When I first read Moons book I thought the romance thing would’ve actually gone with them or that they would at least be closer. Turtle is literally the only person who trusted her after her power reveal, and they both follow the whole I didn’t choose to have my power and being afraid and then learning to overcome that fear. AND they are parallels to Fathom and Clearsight, Darkstalker literally saw a part of them in them and they were like established friends. Why was nothing done with this?

#wof confessions #wings of fire confessions #wof #wings of fire

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mahoganyrust · 4 months ago

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So Im new to the httyd fandom and I was curious about the hijack ship. I don’t think Jack Frost is in httyd. Was it just one of those things where you saw Rise of the Guardians and thought Jack would go well with Hiccup? I’m just curious. ☺️

Hiiii. So I’m definitely not the one that came up with Hijack XD The ship has been around for over a decade now it’s not exactly news. But I understand when ppl first come across it it seems strange so I’ll give you a rundown.

And you’d be right. Jack isn’t in httyd and nor is Hiccup in Rotg. So in the fanon community, this is what we call a ‘rare pair’ or aka, a ship that crosses fandoms and is made up mostly of fanon content. It might seem strange but it happens a lot. It’s fanon. And crossovers are the traditional crux fun of fanfiction so it’s not that weird.

Hijack is heavily associated with a very popular quadruple crossover known as ROTBTD or Rise of The Brave Tangled Dragons. This is an intersection between Disney Merida and Rapunzel with Dreamworks Jack and Hiccup. Rotbtd went craaaazyy in the 2010s and there’s a lot of different content with fics and fanart.

From this, some ppl often ship Jackunzel or Mericup or etc etc you get the idea there’s a lot of different dynamics.

I never really dove too heavily into the rotbtd stuff but I’m still familiar.

So that’s the history. As for Jack and Hiccup? They’re weird as hell I get it lmao. Like wtf is this? XD.

Hiccup’s married with kids. Jack’s in the modern era etc. They have a lot of canon hurdles so why do people ship them?

My answer?

They work.

They work together so well in so many different ways that it takes over your brain. Hijack grows on you bit by bit.

As for what they have in common. They’re both big fliers and adrenaline junkies. They both question their purpose. They both know what it’s like to lose family. They both have gone through years of loneliness. Jack is a guardian, Hiccup is a chief - they’re both protectors. They’re both fighters. They’ve both been suddenly shunned after feeling like they were finally beginning to belong. They both have issues with footwear (lmao sorry). Hiccup creates inventions, Jack creates frosty art and fun with his powers. They both do their character development by a lake in a forest lol. They both have burly accented father figures XD. Jack is the boy who fell into icy water. Hiccup is the boy who fell into blazing fire.

There’s a beautiful parallel in lines here.

Rotg: “Jack Frost is many things, but he is not a guardian.”

Httyd: “You are many things Hiccup, but a dragon killer is not one of them.”

And they both originate each from their own book series that got adapted.

And that’s just the factual stuff. When it comes to their personalities whooowheeeeee.

From the last decade I’ve seen lots of stuff that does them a disservice when ppl reduce Jack to the outgoing ‘jokester’ and Hiccup to the introvert ‘nerdy guy’. In the earlier days some ppl were shipping httyd1 Hiccup, which personally I find extremely weird. Never engaged with that lol. After httyd2 came out that disappeared mostly but still it’s unsettling.

Anyways I don’t like the simplification of their characters and prefer when maybe older creators can take them in a more emotionally complex direction and when they do ohhhh my goddddddd. You end up with storytelling masterpieces with amazing character dimensionality.

I could go on for hours. There’s just something about them. It’s hard to put it into a single word but when they’re done right they just work.

#hijack #jack frost #hiccup haddock #rise of the guardians #how to train your dragon #digital art #hiccup how to train your dragon #rotg jack frost #hiccup haddock x jack frost #fanart #jackson overland frost #frostcup #rotg fanart #rotg fandom #rotbtd #rise of the brave tangled dragons #thank you for coming to my ted talk

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angstyhikka · 12 days ago

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Critical review on Carved and Modeled - Wittebane collaborative album - The Owl House by @a-magpie-in-gravesfield

On the day of the premiere, the four horsemen of the apocalypse (that’s me, @lasymit, @tuumcleander and @levshany) sat down with jokes and banter to watch the hour-long musical album. The project is impressively high-quality for fandom work, and the sheer amount of effort put into it commands respect. There were a few songs we especially liked, which deserve special mention.

A Dark Beginning, depicting the execution of Caleb and Philip’s parents, was dark and atmospheric—the music perfectly matched the tone of the narrative.

Witch Hunters, a song about hypocrisy, nailed the emotional weight, particularly the lines about how their parents “lost the game” they’re now forced to play.

I Can Be Your Friend! was also great—it perfectly captured the character’s energy and was dynamic as hell. The concept of Philip meeting the Collector in the in-between realm when he first crosses worlds is genuinely interesting. Too bad their relationship isn’t explored further.

Curse is absolutely magnificent—from the voice acting to the body horror atmosphere, it’s our favorite track.

Disclaimer

First off, we deeply respect Magpie for their dedication, enthusiasm, and the high-quality merch—clearly the result of painstaking work, with carefully chosen materials and lovingly crafted designs. We also appreciate their attentiveness to every customer and the monumental effort poured into this project!

What follows is serious criticism and our raw reactions. If you’re part of the project, loved the album, and are sensitive to critique, please stop reading here. Otherwise, we’re open to discussion—just keep it civil. We’ve done our best to make this critique constructive and not hurtful (we kept some cursing and CAPS for humor, because otherwise it would be a boring long read). Our goal isn’t to offend but to voice our perspective.

We disagree with Magpie’s interpretation and feel it’s important to say so, especially since this project is massive, gaining traction fast, and some fans are calling it "100% canon" and "better than canon". The fandom’s response has been overwhelmingly positive, likely because this is one of the biggest fan projects of its kind, made with contributions from so many people. Philip’s fans are proud that our fandom can produce something this ambitious.

But in our view, much of this fan-made story contradicts canon or works worse than the original series. Below, we’ll break it down.

Analysis

A Dark Beginning – Tragedy for tragedy’s sake. The music nails the vibe, but the uncle character could’ve been anyone—this song exists solely to hang Caleb and Philip’s parents. This plot point only matters until the second song and then vanishes.

Witch Hunters – The song itself works well as a follow-up to the previous track’s buildup. But despite expectations, the brothers’ conflict with society’s beliefs goes nowhere. Caleb briefly mentions being tired of pretending to be a witch hunter, then it’s dropped. This tension could’ve resurfaced when Philip decides to kill all the witches, but his motivation there is shaky too.

Daydreaming – Caleb dreams of a better life. But it’s unclear what’s weighing him down—everything around him looks rosy, romantic, and peaceful. The lyrics spell out his struggles, but visually, he’s just chilling and daydreaming. We don’t feel his pain.

Distance – Caleb tells Evelyn he wants to leave Philip behind… but also loves him. Why not just take the kid with them? Philip, a literal child with no malice or grudge against Evelyn, watches them sadly from afar. What’s the conflict here?

Struggling Light, Only For A Few Days – No real motivation or tension in Caleb’s decision to abandon Philip. Author tries to parallel Caleb and Luz, but it doesn’t work—Philip is a minor, and Caleb is almost an adult responsible for him. Again, why couldn’t they take Philip with them? Even if Caleb’s tired of parenting, we don’t see any emotional breakdown—just whining. Evelyn supports Caleb but doesn’t push back. She’s just… there.

They could’ve had her egg him on, making Philip resent them both, leading Caleb to make a rash, impulsive choice to leave without Philip. Or shown Caleb blaming Philip for all his problems. But none of that happens, so his motivation falls flat.

The Other Side – Caleb feels zero guilt, which is infuriating. He writes letters he never sends and even smiles while doing it! There’s no explanation for why he can’t return. Maybe the portal couldn’t reopen? Not a word about that. It feels less like he’s chasing a dream and more like he’s just oblivious, acting like a selfish ass with no self-awareness.

Were They Right? – Philip’s suffering again, somehow blaming himself. He’s not allowed to show negative traits. Where’s the betrayal brewing if he never saw the note? Why doesn’t he blame Evelyn? He and Caleb don’t even have one conversation in the whole album—not even before their fight.

Now Philip starts believing the witch hunters were right, that Caleb was enchanted… but nothing leads him to this. He just changes his mind over time. No trigger.

If Philip already thinks Caleb was enchanted, why doesn’t he act on it when they meet? Why not grab him and run? Instead, he kills him. Seems like he realizes Caleb wasn’t enchanted after all but keeps lying to himself. Except the lie’s so weak it doesn’t even convince him, so his real resentment spills out, and he kills Caleb. So is the delusion there or not? If it is, why doesn’t it work? If not, why include it?

If he believes in the enchantment, why not attack Evelyn, the supposed enchanter? If he’s just comforting himself, he could’ve picked a better lie. Why even chase Caleb if he doesn’t believe he was taken by force? Why is he so easily swayed that he kills Caleb on sight?

Cover Up – Over a piece of paper, they’re ready to burn him without trial. The story desperately lacks the systemic oppression that would’ve shaped Philip into who he is. The villagers’ vengeance feels half-baked, but at least the momentum’s engaging.

Finally, we get Philip’s motivation to find his brother.

I Can Be Your Friend! – A high-energy, dynamic song that perfectly fits the Collector’s vibe. Nothing concrete happens—it’s just Philip and the Collector vibing in the in-between. Fun stuff. Too bad the Collector disappears afterward.

Where Is Home? – The first murder feels unearned, and Philip has zero reaction. The description calls it an accident—let it be so—but killing someone point-blank over apples? Really?

WHERE DID THAT DOOR COME FROM SO FAST? WHAT DID HE MAKE IT FROM? DID HE JUST FIND A PORTAL IN THE BUSHES?

Has He Forgotten? – Cavelyn ex machina, resentment with no setup. Philip’s moping again. Earlier, he thought "maybe he was enchanted," now he’s suddenly certain it’s magic and leans into the delusion. The lyrics are too on-the-nose, the tone clashes with the visuals, and the pacing’s off. His motivation needed time to develop—this is a pivotal moment, but it’s rushed.

It feels like Philip just pulls out a knife out of nowhere. The song seems to frame it as a crime of passion, but he’s eerily calm when making the decision. Psychopathy fits Philip, but you can’t have it both ways—here he’s cold and calculating, in the next song he’s rage-fueled and impulsive. Which is it?

Murder – Caleb’s "I’ll always be there for you" rings hollow when he never even tried to return. This ties back to Caleb’s weak motivation—he’s completely oblivious to the consequences of his actions. Screw the note! He should’ve known it wouldn’t explain or justify anything, even if Philip read it.

We can’t tell who Philip’s attacking—Evelyn’s not in frame. If it’s Caleb, WHAT THE HELL IS HE DOING WITH HIS BACK TURNED? Why stab him? Is he angry? Trying to "break the spell"? Maybe the "spell" is a metaphor for his (unshown) resentment.

How did he spiral like this? No buildup except one mention in Were They Right?. Philip seemed to want Caleb back, but then he kills him because… he’s mad? Hurt? A fucking idiot? Does he genuinely believe Caleb was enchanted? The framing’s so vague we’re not even sure if we missed hints or if they just weren’t there.

WHERE THE FUCK WAS EVELYN THIS WHOLE TIME?

The lyrics say "SOUL IS TORN APART," but Philip’s face is stone-cold, like everything’s going according to plan. Delusions need REASONS, CONFLICT—they don’t just pop up. The emotional core is missing. Instead, we get "depression in my mind, misery in my behind", with none of the doubt that should be there after KILLING THE PERSON HE LOVED MOST.

The Door – Why doesn’t Evelyn, knowing where Philip is, try to kill him? Why is HE so calm, thinking logically AFTER MURDERING CALEB—the most traumatic event of his life? WHERE’S THE BREAKDOWN? THE SHOCK? THE DESPAIR? This should’ve shattered him—horror, tilt, depression. He should’ve cycled through grief and gotten stuck on denial, fueling his future canon actions.

This needed its own song because the dissonance between event and reaction is jarring. You could argue psychopathy, but even psychopaths aren’t usually this detached. Even for them, core motivation has to come from somewhere emotional.

There’s so much fanart of Philip losing his mind digging up Caleb’s body, but here he’s just… lonely. Sticking to canon here undermines Philip’s motivation, especially for his future arc. It’s flat. Pathetic. Frustrating.

The audience can’t connect Philip’s emotions to his choices because the initial conflict was undercooked. Now the story doesn’t work. Caleb’s role in Philip’s life feels interchangeable—it could’ve been anyone. This breaks the Grimwalkers’ concept—if he just needed someone, why not make it literally anyone else?

Why does he want to kill all witches? Over Caleb? But he seems to give zero shits about Caleb to dedicate 300 years to this crusade.

Canon Hollow Mind pictures don’t fit the narrative and feel illogical. If you’re using them as a foundation, the story should’ve been different.

What Now? – Evelyn leaves him in her world… WHY??? So he can genocide her people? "Let’s lock the maniac who murdered my child’s father in a room with my entire species"—BRILLIANT plan. Her reasoning—"I won’t let you hurt anyone else"—HOW does hiding the portal stop him, dumbass? Why not execute him publicly?

Philip wants to kill all witches so his people will "forgive" him. How he reached this conclusion is unclear. Is it guilt over Caleb’s death (which we never saw)? Who knows.

Later, he claims he’s "protecting" humanity from witches luring them with magic, like Caleb. COOL. Then why the earlier motivation? Why the contradictions? Is this his delusion or bad storytelling? Since it’s not clear at first glance, it feels like the latter.

He does express doubt—saying he’ll "believe the lie" to avoid pain—which is a great angle, but it’s buried under noise (like Evelyn’s portal door).

And, by the way, why didn’t he kill Evelyn? Their conflict has no resolution. He kills Caleb but ignores her, even though he blames her and all witches for this mess.

He wonders if Caleb was enchanted… but he already killed him over it. This doubt should’ve come before the murder.

So he makes Grimwalkers to "prove" Caleb wouldn’t betray him without magic? And because he’s terrified of forgetting Caleb’s face? But earlier, his motives were different. It’s a mess. Does he want revenge? To "save" Caleb? To protect humanity? Too much for one song—pick a lane.

Grimwalkers – He’s not deluding himself anymore. He knows killing Caleb was wrong. So why keep making Grimwalkers? The song implies he’s addicted, afraid to forget Caleb. But without the delusion, where’s the guilt? Why does he regret killing Caleb but not the Grimwalkers?

Again, Philip’s murders are treated with bizarre indifference—no reason, no emotion, in lyrics or visuals.

This song’s motivation isn’t bad, but it clashes with his inconsistent behavior earlier. The overall message still falters.

CURSE – ABSOLUTELY FLAWLESS. NO JOKE. WE’VE BEEN REPLAYING THIS ON LOOP. Best song in the album. The visuals sync perfectly with the music—his madness is on full display. THIS is Philip. Deranged, obsessed, desperate, agonizing under crushing guilt.

It echoes Transformation from Jekyll & Hyde, taking the best elements we’ve always associated with Philip. The whispering sends chills—his torment crawls under your skin. The vocal delivery masterfully conveys his fractured mind, pulling the audience into the horror. Priceless.

Why does it work? Because it’s a self-contained vibe—no narrative, just atmosphere. And the atmosphere is perfect.

The Titan's Will – Just canon events retold Hollow Mind, with no added depth. This song adds nothing. Cut it, and nothing changes.

Mask Of Gold – The lyrics mention "all the lives that were lost," but no kill besides Caleb’s was justified. Even Caleb’s death felt rushed. Philip rarely seems troubled by any of it—we see hints in CURSE (guilt) and Grimwalkers (doubt).

Which "lives" is he mourning? If it’s Caleb and his own, that’d make sense. But he shows no remorse for anyone else. The tragedy falls flat.

The tone doesn’t match what Philip should feel. The lyrics don’t fit the context.

It’d be more effective to show his melancholy creeping through his imperial routine—how, despite his busyness, intrusive thoughts break through his denial.

What we see—him indulging in sadness—would’ve destroyed him over 400 years. If this happened often, he’d be dead. He survives on hatred and denial, especially before the Day of Unity. He’s too busy to sit around staring at a world he despises.

Conclusion

We need to say why this post exists: It hurts to see Philip treated like this. This character means a lot to us—we’ve spent ages analyzing his motives and psyche. Seeing a project that glosses over both claim canonicity is disheartening.

This was meant to "fix" canon (where everything’s bad), but it fails just as hard by clinging to canon while creating new plotholes.

It ignores historical context that should’ve shaped Philip’s trauma and worldview, flattening his character.

There’s not one scene fully dedicated to his emotional pain—the core of his character. No standout moment focusing on his psychological damage—unlike CURSE, which highlights his physical agony and guilt.

We don’t want this project to become the "definitive" fandom interpretation. Canon left gaps in Philip’s backstory and motives, letting fans theorize and adding depth. But this album’s story leaves no room for interpretation. It offers half-baked "solutions" that raise more questions than they answer.

The attempts to patch canon’s holes clash with character motivations, making them shallow and their actions nonsensical. They’re hard to believe.

To understand their motives, we had to rewatch the album ON MUTE because the songs’ moods often clash with the events, distracting from the story. On first watch, we missed key details—there was no emphasis. We thought there was no improvement over canon. The album wants to tell a story, but its structure gets in the way.

We rewatched it twice and wrote this review to dig deeper. We did find some compelling ideas about Philip’s motivation, but it was as exhausting as dissecting the original show.

Magpie, if you’re reading this, we truly hope this critique doesn’t hurt you. Its goal is to offer constructive feedback on character writing. Whether you take it or leave it is entirely up to you.

Thanks for reading.

#philip wittebane #toh #the owl house belos #caleb wittebane #the owl house #belos #emperor belos #wittebane brothers #wittebane #evelyn clawthorne #critical review #p.s. magpie told us they are okay with this post to exist #this post is for discusson #not for hate #we are totally chill in person #nothing personal just LORE

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saintofsacrilege · 4 months ago

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i’ve been pondering aftg and tsc recently, and i think i had a breakthrough.

if nora had made jeanee an established relationship, then they would’ve largely been perceived as andreil 2.0 in the sense that renee and jean—like andrew and neil—would’ve had that same type of complementary trauma that allows them to instantly understand each other. jeanee would be able to face each other’s demons head-on as if it’s the most natural thing in the world. as i said in a previous andreil post, “the whole reason [they] work is that they’re able to slot their jagged edges together. that’s why they’re so connected.”

as far as we know, jerejean doesn’t have that. jeremy has to put effort into seeing where jean is coming from, which is by no means evidence of a weaker connection, just a different one. this isn’t to say that jeremy didn’t have a difficult past since CLEARLY something is up, he just hasn’t revealed the details yet. but regardless, based on his reactions to jean in tsc, he’s almost intimidated by what jean has gone through. jeremy still wants to be there for jean, to support him and help him heal, but there’s nevertheless an element of i-might-be-in-over-my-head that andreil never had. jeremy will never give up on jean, but i think that’s more of a reflection of how he views people in general, whereas andreil’s unwavering faith and commitment to each other didn’t really extend to anyone beyond the two of them (you could argue that andrew was similarly dedicated to aaron and kevin but yk what i mean. aaron himself said neil was different).

selfishly, i would’ve loved to have seen more of renee and the parallels between andreil and jeanee’s relationships. i find renee’s character as “a bad person trying very hard to be a good person” absolutely fascinating and andreil will always be my #1 aftg couple. that being said, though, i think nora made the right choice to focus on jerejean and explore a different dynamic. i doubt the majority of fans would’ve been too happy with jeanee anyway, both because jerejean is a fan favorite ship and because jeanee could be potentially watered down to the “heterosexual andreil” (i obviously believe there’s more to them than that, but the risk was definitely there).

all this to say i have a newfound appreciation for jerejean and i’m looking forward to the gold raven ✨

#aftg #tsc #jeanee #jerejean #andreil #neil josten #andrew minyard #renee walker #jean moreau #jeremy knox #time capsule of my thoughts

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lostpai · 2 months ago

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Xià Fěi and Vein’s Dual Powers

Vein and Xià Fěi hold the powers of Foresight and Hindsight – here's how I came to believe it. Get ready for a lengthy post—this is the first in a series. (30 mins read).

Have you heard of the dual power theory? Let me explain this beautiful theory first caught by @miyamiwu (GIFs and correlating posts can be found here and here).

For those who missed it, Vein and Xià Fěi’s frames in the LULL Bridon arc credits feature VFX that spill into each other’s frames. As seen in her post, this does not happen with any of the other four characters, all of whom have confirmed powers. We know that Link Click never does anything without a reason! What does this mean, and why are these two characters highlighted over the others? Well Miyamiwu threw it out there that maybe it correlates to them having a dual power. And that theory makes so much sense.

Where have we seen the use of dual powers? We've seen dual powers used before with Lu Guang and Chéng Xiǎoshí, as well as with the siblings Li Tianchen and Li Tianxi. So, this isn’t something new. In fact, of the 7 confirmed characters with powers, 4 of them are in pairs. This makes it highly probable that two new complimenting characters who act as a duo are also connected in this way. The symbolism is clear: the two share something deeper, just like the other powerful pairs. If four others can have dual powers, why not Xià Fěi and Vein, a pair so tightly connected both in contrasting personalities but equal and parallel in their relationship? Now that I've explained this dual theory my goal was to figure out and prove which powers makes the most sense for either of the two to have. To help me I've set up two cannon-bound rules that helped me find what it is. Rule #1 Dual powers means the characters would either have parallel powers with complementary abilities or opposite powers that act as a counterbalance to each other. Vein and Xià Fěi are constantly contrasting in these frames. Not only do the characters themselves contrast personality-wise, but their friendly dynamic complements each other. Given this dynamic, their powers would either need to complement or contrast with one another, or exist in the fine line between. It also goes to show that assuming Vein has smoke or immortal/resurrection powers would not work, because it needs a fitting connecting power.

Rule #2 There’s no reason to assume Link Click's powers are elemental. Based on what we've seen, Powers are tied to photography, time travel, or something related to the body or the mind. Introducing elemental powers would, in my opinion, mess with the established lore.

Assuming Xià Fěi has light powers doesn’t quite fit, even if it aligns with Rule 1 about having a parallel or opposite. Similarly, the theory of Xià Fěi having fire powers falls short if Vein’s doesn't seem like he would complement or contrast with that power in any way. In my quest to narrow down the possible powers, I couldn’t help but find a loophole that had me wondering why Xià Fěi and Vein's eyes always glow so brightly, as if their power is constantly active. Even the other main characters' eyes dim when their powers aren't in use. This led me to a third rule—more hypothesis than canon-based, so your free to ignore it— My biased Rule #3 - If both character’s power is one that stays on, it could be a passive or constant ability, always active but perhaps unnoticed until the right moment. This rule genuinely backs you into a corner, but it only managed to put my last two remaining theories on a pedestal... So, after digging myself into dozens of holes including loopholes to find potential powers that actually fit within a time-travel story, I finally hit on foresight and hindsight—and suddenly, everything clicked. Maybe its called link click because everything always clicks into place. hahaha....just pretend I'm funny. These concepts not only make sense for both characters story arcs, but they’re backed by existing theories and new evidence I've uncovered. Now, I’ll dive into each of their respective powers, explaining the why, how, and what that support my theory.

Vein: "Immediate Foresight" Memory that does not transcend time, but transcends a series of moments.

GIF by ydotome

Vein’s foresight works differently from Lu Guang’s—while Lu Guang’s power transcends time, Vein’s memory doesn’t carry over through each reset. I will stand by my belief that Vein didn’t know or recognize either Lu Guang or CXS before they were introduced to each other in episode 3— otherwise he would have simply killed them both.

While it looks like Lu Guang is on the edge of having both foresight and hindsight, I'd like to argue his power is more akin to clairvoyance. The difference in these powers is significant, but different enough for it makes sense for characters to have such similar abilities. Let me explain further. Vein's power is PREDICTIVE Lu Guangs power is TRUTH

Foresight - Vein's power is about predicting what might happen, based on the present circumstances. It’s more about a sense of anticipation or intuition—He would know what’s likely to happen. The where and how is clear, while the why and when remains predictive until within that moment.

Clairvoyance - Lu Guang’s power is about seeing specific details of the future, present, or past. He wouldn’t just predict what might happen; he has seen and experienced clearly both the past and future as if it were happening right in front of him. It’s about truth—the direct and clear perception of events, like he’s watching a film.

Since the director mentioned that Lu Guang always stays within his own timeline, I don't believe their powers see different timelines or possible outcomes, but rather 'the timeline's current outcome' in varying levels of clarity. This view of Foresight aligns with Vein's almost superhuman reflexes,

Next 3 GIFs by ydotome I invite you to take a look at this scene until you REALLY understand it. On second glance there's something subtly off about the timing of Vein's reactions.

Study how swiftly Vein moves—it looks effortless. Too easy. Upon closer inspection, it even feels like Vein's own movements anticipate a frame or two before than the other even prepares to strike. Like he is one full moment ahead of each strike. I have several frames here for example (this gif is originally 69 frames long)

While many anime characters can dodge like this, few do it with their eyes closed for three full swings without some kind of 'extra sense perception.' So I'm calling it evidence. Here Vein is showing complete confidence in his knowledge that he won't get hurt.

Just the fact that he stands still with that smug ass little smile screams that he is in control of the situation. I'm hypothesizing that Vein learns the truth of the moment only within that moment; everything before is predictive. The closer he is, the clearer the information becomes. In that instant, he can dodge every strike because their next move shifts from a probability to a complete certainty. This gives him a sense of control and explains why he often looks so pleased.

I believe Vein is constantly downloading new information about his opponent and surroundings mid-battle, making him the perfect, constantly adapting adversary. Vein is the embodiment of 'right place, right time,' and I doubt need to elaborate further. But I'll show some more GIFs instead.

This post is kinda long already but I also invite you to look into the Vein vs. Shao Yuanyuan fight as well. Because it feels like another use of his foresight abilities (Video link here) and finally Vein's fatal limitation.

If too much is happening in too short a time, it’s possible to slip through the cracks of his foresight. He may fail to react to an immediate danger simply because his attention is divided between too many things. While he might have the right information, he is still human. In a scenario like this, Vein could potentially be open for attack but never taken completely by surprise. So why was Vein blindsided by his own death?

There could be better theories to this part specifically, but maybe Vein never saw the possibility of the attack coming, because Vein's death was never supposed to have happened. It was too fast, and everything he thought would happen changed too quickly. Simply because a more powerful third party had inserted themself into the situation. (From what I understand Lu Guang changed something in their timeline and Vein had never been killed before).

GIF from @shantechni The REAL genuine fear shown when Vein is called by his real name, and during the heart attack show how caught off guard he was. His mind racing, dare I say it had little to do with the fact that he couldn't breathe, but that there was a flaw within his foresight. That he was finally unable to take control of his precious moment. He didn't know what was going on until it was too late to prevent it. But there is nothing wrong with Vein's foresight, because he still figures it out. But at the moment of his realization, Vein's death is already in motion—an attack happening in real time without even touching him, its not something that he can run away from. And it is this eye opening realization on the brink of death where Vein is given the answers he's looking for.

He knows his killer, he knows what happened... and all he can do is laugh at having been one-upped. It's all so very interesting—and he would love to see who plays the next piece in this game of chess. Vein's death is now a certainty. His own tricks used against him. And his final words,

“So that’s how it is…” I'd like to slide in another extra piece of proof for my Foresight theory. This is the 6th episode's cover art. I think its pretty self explanatory.

Screenshot @mysterialistic (posts relating to this sentence here, here, and this) Thank you so much for bearing with me, but we're only halfway done! I already cut this bad boy into two separate separate posts too! Next up....

Xià Fěi: "Hindsight" The tragedy of only ever figuring it out in hindsight. Power born from memories and a grief that transcends the present...

"I’ve made up my mind. No matter how bizarre the truth, I’ll find out what happened."

The idea of hindsight comes from it being the inverse of foresight, and fitting Xià Fěi's potential character development.

I propose that he always had the power and it wasn’t 're-awakened' until Vein’s death. With Vein’s foresight gone, Xià Fěi's hindsight is born.

I think Xià Fěi always had the ability but was too young or traumatized to use it. His time at Chéng Wěimín's school raises questions. There’s a solid theory that the school was full of children with powers. (here and here).

(if you look up this scene you'll see Chéng is mouthing something, and from there we never see young Xià Fěi's eyes again, as they remain cast in shadow). There are a lot of inconsistencies with this new information, wasn't Felix only an exchange student for college? What's with this scene? What did "it's time," mean? Here me out, what if Xià Fěi's memory was altered by Chéng Wěimín? Xià Fěi seems unaware of what 'Bahati' was. He doesn't seem to know about the fire or the meaning of the word. If he remembered he could've helped them- or maybe warned them. But instead he was perfectly comfortable helping CXS question his previous boss, as well as Vein. Also how interesting is it, that he ended up working once in the same place that he went to school in at one point?? Xià Fěi feels like a character that follows the theme of returning back to the past. If not during the Bridon arc, that at least because we known off screen he's going to dedicate his life to finding out what happened to Vein. Another thing that stood out to me during episode 3 was when (time stamp 14:30) when CXS said "Bahati" there was a magical sound effect. I study these Link click sound effects a lot and they're always happening. Mostly when someone notices something or when one could make the case that someone is subtly using their power. For example the sound effect shows up the most around Vein and Lu Guang. And its always the same sound effect. What if Xià Fěi remembers when the name is spoken, but anything related to CXS's father is a trigger word for a memory wipe on the subject? Another piece of Xià Fěi's story. (Found by @joyokosuka, post here)

I want to believe Vein's interest in Xià Fěi has to do with their close connection and not just because there was a subliminal connection that comes with dual powers. If you believe in fate and all, which I’ll get into the next post. But I don't think either were actually aware of Xià Fěi's power, as it wouldn't have re-manifested until Vein's death. It also makes sense, because Xià Fěi was open to powers existing. Xià Fěi discovering his own past, and using his gift of hindsight would open up a whole can of worms for everyone. The good and the bad, and the past that should've stayed buried.

I imagine Xià Fěi will be pretty upset when learning about the past and revisiting his memories before Vein’s death. It’s going to destroy him if he figures out that Lu Guang and CXS were involved. I could see him using his power in a way that might allow him to re-experience or analyze past events but not actually go back in time. He will constantly search and long for for what he missed out on.

And if not to attempt revenge… then for closure.

Xià Fěi is taking up the gauntlet of an unwanted legacy for closure. How sad and ironic that Vein could've potentially been using his power along side him but Xià Fěi never realizes until the death of his counterpart. Xià Fěi's power gives an ulterior meaning to what he told our mains.

“but I’ll remember the time I spent with you guys forever”

It's so haunting. Knowing he was backstabbed by his friends. This feels like a self-fulfilling prophecy. The tragedy of hindsight.

Now after explaining where Hindsight would fit into the plot, I'll share the rest of the evidence for why Xià Fěi's power is Hindsight, more than just because he is Vein's inverse/parallel. In another post by @miyamiwu (Click here) beautiful theory by the way. There was one thing she said that stood out to me.

She explained that “In Mandarin Chinese, time is viewed in a vertical fashion. The past is above you, while the future is below you.”

Because of this I asked my friend for an impromptu lesson in Mandarin, to help me analyze that the name 夏斐 (Xià Fěi) can be linked to the idea of time. Thank you so much to Yuqianqian 🌸💕 for dealing with my madness.

In Mandarin the past and future is viewed in a vertical fashion only through a spoken fashion.

Let me introduce you to “The Four Mandarin Chinese Tones” which are used to identify the TONE (shēngdiào) of a word. You use each tone to help you pitch your syllables. All Chinese words have tones.

First tone: a level and higher pitch Second tone: rising, start from a lower pitch and end at a slightly higher pitch Third tone: falling rising, start at a neutral tone then dip to a lower pitch before ending at a higher pitch Fourth tone: falling, start the syllable at a slightly higher than neutral pitch then go quickly and strongly downwards

The reason the future is viewed downwards And past is viewed upwards is because they pitch upwards and downwards when you say it!

Fun fact you can figure out out which tone both the first and surname are in by using these diacritical marks.

1st tone: ā

2nd tone: á

3rd tone: ǎ

4th tone: à

Neutral tone - a (no pitch)

So Xià (is the 4th falling tone) followed by Fěi (the 3rd falling/rising tone).

Chinese people usually give their kid a 2 words name or 3 words name. If the words in a first name were both the same tone it’s would be hard to pronounce.

谐音 is a literarily trick similar to how a writer can use homophones in English to symbolize something.

谐音 is when words can sound the exact same but be are spelled completely differently.

“By, bye, buy” “To, too, two” “Flour, flower” “Knight, night”

夏斐 Xià Fěi’s name actually uses 谐音

夏 is Pronounced Xià it means “summer”

下 is also pronounced Xià it means “down”

It changes meaning depending on the word next to it though, but other meanings of Xià still include; Downwards, Under, Below, Descend, Fall, Give birth too, Spate...

'Second of two parts'... guys is it obvious I ship Veinfei 下 is not typically not used anymore unless it refers to very specific instances of time, directions, or positions.

This play on words of Xià and the concept of 下 “down” works in tandem with the 4th tone. And brings us back to the original idea of “the future being below you.” It perfectly relates the idea of time to the name, while also holding symbolism. The future is below Xià Fěi.

And who is future?

Vein's name is first pointed out by @rainibao (here). That Vein’s true name - 萧未影 Xiāo Wèiyǐng relates to the concept of the future!

I’d like to add that 未 by itself does not mean future, but rather it’s 未来.

未来 - Future 未 on its own means “not yet” Both are falling tones.

Just in case I made this pretty confusing. I gave Xià Fěi's name as proof to show that he is RELATED TO TIME and related to VEIN. Meanwhile every example of Vein points to downwards symbolism as well. And even though Xià Fěi should represent Upwards symbolism, the fact that he also represents downward symbolism felt like it does help my case in relate to hindsight as well. But either way, heres some pretty obvious Upwards symbolism for Xià Fěi too.

This is a post by miyamiwu (here) guys wtf I already ran out of image space Here with the water Lu Guang is drowning and falling downwards into the Future Vein pulls Xià Fěi upwards above water into the past. Once again it also references unwanted legacies left behind by Vein.

In the end we see the huanting idea of Vein as a concept of life after death Xia Fei as a concept life before death And Lu Guang representing death itself

Thank you so much for listening to my theory! I feel like this theory has revolutionized the way I see these two. Feel free to contact me or disprove or add to my theory. I took like a whole weeks to make this. Soon I will release the second part of my theory (yes I have more evidence). This time in relation to Liú Xiāo, how he fits into this entire equation, and what his other power may be. And what happens Post-Vein's death. PT. 2 (TBA)

#link click bridon arc #link click #shiguang dailiren #veinfei #link click vein #cheng xiaoshi #lu guang #xia fei #xiao weiying #veifei #bridon arc #bridon spoilers #yingdu chapter #link click yingdu #link click season 3 #sorry for pinging so many people #时光代理人 #Guys I lowkey popped into this fandom out of nowhere didn't I #I did this instead of sleeping

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lambmotifz · 2 months ago

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isn’t it ironic how despite all the parallels/similarities between dean and lucifer when it comes to their dynamics with sam and their metaphorical competition for him, one of the main differences between them is that lucifer asks for sam’s consent (and genuinely craves it) while dean does really fucked up things to sam regardless of his consent

#which is both beautiful & horrifying :)#sam winchester #wincest #samdean #samifer #spn

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jinxedjackie · 8 months ago

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Promoted from being the aunt she wants to kill to the step dad who’s going to be her support system (kinda)

This is how I imagine their dynamics is going to be in season two. I think Sevika will be repulsed by Jinx at first, especially when she finds out Jinx killed Silco, but she eventually yields when she learns about the rocket launch, the council being blown up, and what this could mean for Zaun (but I think it’s only when Piltover starts a manhunt for Jinx).

I read a tweet about how they will parallel with Ambessa and Caitlyn, and I think their relationship will also parallel with Silco and Jinx’s. Anyone would argue that Sevika probably just sees Jinx as another opportunity for the cause and just another clog in the machine, but I think she’ll learn to empathize with Jinx and would actually be the mentor that Jinx needs. She saw how Jinx grew from being a little girl who lost her family to Silco’s weapon of mass destruction to now becoming a symbol of their people but Jinx is still only a kid, yk? (Kind of a head canon but) she sees herself in Jinx and understands how tiring it is to be someone they wish they weren’t. She’s honed herself to become a weapon, too. To protect herself and others.

Also, adding this screen capture bc I’ve always believed that she cares for Jinx regardless of what’s happened between them.

I wish I could elaborate on this topic more but English isn’t my first language and Idk how to articulate stuff. 🤠

#sevika arcane #sevika #arcane #jinx arcane #jinx #THEY ARE MY WIFE AND DAUGHTER!!!#this doodle is my magnum opus

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wisteria-lodge · 9 months ago

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I LOVE the version of Lucius in your fic Prison of the Phoenix. He's different from a lot of portrayals I've seen. Why did you decide to write him how you did?

A lot of the fun of writing a book-accurate fix-it fic comes from taking the events of the book, and removing JKRs (simplistic, misleading, sometimes just weird) narrative framing. Slytherins = baddies, Gryffindors = goodies, you know.

This is especially fun with Lucius Malfoy, who just like… isn’t very evil? Chamber of Secrets is his most villainous book, and I’ll get to that, but otherwise? He tries (unsuccessfully) to get the animal that attacked his kid killed. He donates to hospitals (but in like, an evil way.) He is a hilariously incompetent Death Eater, and then he's Voldemort’s punching bag.

That’s kind of the point of Lucius. He looks the part. He commits to the aesthetics of the thing, with the hair and the peacocks and the snake-wand-cane. He likes the mystique of walking into a room and knowing that you know (but can’t prove) he’s a dark wizard. It allows him to be… kinda lazy. He can coast on his family name, money, reputation, privilege. I really think that if you sat Lucius Malfoy down and asked him to walk you through all the wizard-supremacy talking points he wouldn’t be able to do it. He’ll toss around words like “mudblood” and “mudblood-lover” no problem, but in the end he doesn’t really care. Lucius is not a true believer. The way the world is set up benefits him tremendously and he doesn’t want Voldemort back. That’s just text:

“Use your brains, Ron,” said Bill. “If they really were Death Eaters… I bet they’d be even more frightened than the rest of us to see him come back. They denied they’d ever been involved with him when he lost his powers, and went back to their daily lives… I don’t reckon he’d be over-pleased with them, do you?”

Lucius and friends had too much to drink at a sporting event, put on the old outfits (again with the aesthetics) and started levitating muggles. Which obviously isn’t GOOD, but they’re not killing or torturing, or furthering any kind of agenda. It’s important that Barty is so insulted and pissed off by the way they’re basically playing Dark Wizard that he casts the Dark Mark to “show [them] what loyalty to the Dark Lord meant, and to punish them for their lack of it.” Which kicks off most of the events of the book.

Prison of the Phoenix is going to have a companion, parallel fic told from Harry’s POV (tentatively titled Harry Potter and Malfoy’s Suspicious Interest in Werewolves.) Lucius does show up in that one, and I was honestly surprised by how much more frightening and intimidating he is when filtered through Harry’s perspective. Because with a Severus POV… when Severus is used to spending time around Voldemort, Greyback, Bellatrix, honestly Dumbledore and Sirius Black…. Lucius is not scary. Lucius wants to buy presents for his son, go to high-profile events with his beautiful wife, and wear a variety of snake-themed accessories and extravagant hats.

I wanted a kind of college-roommates-who-stayed-friends feel for the Severus + Lucius relationship, because they are friends. Sirius calls Severus Lucius’ “lapdog,” and Narcissa calls him Lucius’ “oldest friend.” Lucius is also part of the welcoming committee when Severus is first sorted into Slytherin. He’s five years older (I think Jason Isaacs is the only Harry Potter adult the same age as the character he plays), which would have affected the dynamic between him and Severus a lot in school. Personally, I think it makes sense for Lucius to be a little protective of this brilliant half-blood kid with no money. And as an adult, there’s some guilt mixed in there as well. Severus probably would not have been sucked into the Voldemort thing nearly as deep or nearly as fast if it hadn’t been for Lucius, and the war kind of destroyed him. Lucius remembers a younger Severus who was modding potions, inventing spells, coming up with cheeky nicknames for himself, and that person is gone. That’s a big part of the reason he’s so invested in the Severus/Remus relationship in Prison of the Phoenix. Something about Remus has managed to wake up parts of that younger Severus, and Lucius thinks that’s fantastic.

I also think Lucius might be the character who knows Voldemort the best. He’s one of the only Death Eaters who Voldemort calls by their first name (Bellatrix, Severus, and Draco are the others) and he’s weirdly familiar with his “slippery friend” Lucius, addressing the whole speech about how/why he returned to him, for some reason? Anything that helps Voldemort make sense as a person I’ll take, and to me it makes sense that young Tom Riddle charmed Abraxas Malfoy, Lucius’ father, first. The dates are right, and he’s exactly Tom’s type - rich, pureblood, probably easily flattered (let’s be honest) and sitting on a pile of magical artifacts. It’s very Hepzibah Smith vibes, is what I’m saying. And rich, posh, popular seventeen year olds don’t join cults. But if Lucius’ father was already in a cult…

It also makes sense to me that Tom Riddle got sort of stuck when he killed Marvolo Gaunt, and made his first horcrux at sixteen. He has this fascination with sixteen year old pureblood wizards (so Barty, Draco, and Lucius would have fit this profile.) He sort of wants to be them, but also sort of wants to break them? It’s messy, and complicated. It’s creepy and compelling, that Lucius is aging but this spectre that’s dominated his life isn’t.

And so when Lucius gives Ginny the diary in Book 2… it makes sense that he’s just trying to get rid of it. He was just at Borgin and Burkes selling dark artifacts, but knows that the diary is worse. He needs to make sure it can’t possibly be traced back to him. So he gives it to the daughter of the head of the Misuse of Muggle Artifacts office. (It is an enchanted muggle artifact, after all.) If Arthur Weasley finds it and deals with it, fine. If Ginny is discovered with it in a way that blows up in Arthur’s face, also fine. If it does get to Hogwarts and does open the Chamber of Secrets - well Draco is going to be fine, and it might undermine Dumbledore. If it was really important to Lucius that the diary rid the school of muggleborns… he would have given it to Draco and had him use it. Or given it to Draco, and told him to leave it somewhere for an enemy to find. But Lucius doesn’t do that, because he doesn’t want Voldemort back and his politics just aren’t that important to him.

The one trait I did give Lucius is being an unrepentant wife guy. (And I mean… it doesn’t contradict anything. There isn’t anything in the books to suggest that he isn’t a wife guy.) EDIT: I cannot believe I forgot the little "it's going to be okay" wrist squeeze Narcissa gives him right before he passes Voldemort his wand. This meta does a fantastic job getting into who Narcissa is, and I am officially justified in writing them just as googly-eyes about each other as I want. Also going full Gomez and Mortica makes them a better foil for the Weasleys, and the (not typically on the same page) Arthur and Molly.

#prison of the phoenix #hp #jkr critical #lucius malfoy #lucius malfoy meta #severus snape #snupin #remus x severus #fanfiction #hp analysis #tom riddle

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izzyfishie · 15 days ago

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i am SICK AND TIRED of people saying that “sangihun is brother-coded/cousin-coded” or “sangihun is a direct parallel to hwang brothers and so shipping them is practically incest”

while HDH compares their relationship to that of a fraternal one, the key word there is COMPARES. nowhere does it state they are brothers. nowhere does it state they see each other as brothers. god forbid childhood friends fall in love i guess

this parallel is used to emphasize how strong their bond is. it is used as a comparison of sorts.

not to mention we literally see them have different moms?? is this not more proof.

“but you can see somebody as a sibling not by blood!!” okay. fair point. i do see some of my friends in more of a sibling manner. but THOSE THINGS CAN BE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE. one is not always entitled to see their childhood friends as siblings. there is nothing to imply they see each other this way though. especially not with all the freaky eyefucking oh my god.

“hyung”, as we all should know by now, is used between close males. that is in no way further proof. besides, not to pull the homophobia card but i am certain people would have less of that belief if one of them were a woman.

this isn’t about personal interpretations. i can’t stop you there. but PLEASE stop spreading misinformation like “they see each other as brothers”. that is an OPINIONATED INTERPRETATION, not a fact. especially since their dynamic, regardless of how you interpret it, is EXTREMELY important to the plot.

please for the love of god stop it. and STOP CALLING MY FELLOW SANGIHUN SHIPPERS INCESTUOUS.

xoxo, mama sangihun (i guess that’s me now?? 😭)

#i apologize sincerely for being aggressive i’m lowkey overstimulated irl rn #i’m just. pissed abt this #side note i dont think siblings eyefuck /silly #so sick of the recent influx in sangihun hate. i must create more content #squid game #seong gi hun #cho sang woo #sangihun #674 #218 x 456

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sflow-er · 4 months ago

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Henry and Simon’s dynamic over the three seasons

For YR Faves Fest 2024 organised by @youngroyals-events Prompts: 2. Favourite teen side character (+ 7. Favourite not-quite friendship)

In one of my replies to the recent side character ask game, I briefly mentioned being partial to the dynamic between these two. So for this Faves Fest, I decided to elaborate with an analysis post (featuring screenshots of variable quality)!

I want to preface this with a brief acknowledgment of Henry’s privilege and classism. It is not my intention to diminish them. I do, however, feel that it’s a bit apples-to-oranges to compare them to Simon’s views (citrus pun intended). 🍊 is politically active and has put in the effort to form his own beliefs, while 🍏 shows us time and again that he is ignorant of the world outside the elite bubble and not inclined towards deep reflection. He is largely a product of his upbringing and the (liberal conservative) values imparted by his parents.

While Henry doesn’t grow enough to change his core views and values in the canon timeline, he does change his views on Simon. This isn’t enough progress for them to become actual friends before we leave off (I doubt Simon could be friends with someone who only exempts him), but I would still argue that they end the show on amicable terms.

And yes, I mean that in a mutual sense, even if Simon doesn’t soften towards Henry quite as much as Henry softens towards him!

So, let’s dive in!

Dialogue taken from the English CC and [abbreviated or corrected].

1.01: the tax debate

Henry: “Take my dad’s estate, for example. They’re struggling to make ends meet because of the high taxes.” [Simon chuckles and explains his views] Simon: “Like your dad. [Do you know how much he gets in EU subsidies every year]”? Henry: “And what the fuck does your dad do?”

Like most viewers, I find it a lot easier to relate to Simon’s views than Henry’s here – but I do think Henry often gets judged quite harshly for insulting Simon at the end. His comment does not come out of nowhere (cf. Stella’s unprompted dirty look at Simon and Sara when she talks about welfare scamming).

Henry only knows that his father has said their estate is struggling, so of course he won’t take kindly to Simon suggesting that they are actually getting undeserved subsidies instead. It’s also important to note that this estate isn’t just any old farm. It was granted to one of his ancestors as a reward for their services to the Crown, which makes it a core part of his family history. As we learn in 1.04, Henry is a Society boy and very proud of his noble ancestry, and Simon’s comment likely feels like an insult to his entire family. So although his retort is unquestionably rude, it is understandable that he lashes out.

Also, Henry has no way of knowing that Micke is a deadbeat. He is just applying a common stereotype (and potentially making assumptions based on the views Simon just expressed on welfare).

1.02: parallel but separate experiences

Early in this episode, we see Simon side-eye Henry and Walter for the paid tutoring. He decides to follow their example, but as we know he can’t actually afford it, we can already guess it won’t go as well for him as it did for them.

Next, we see Henry in the group as the rowing team ignores Simon at morning training. The camera also pans to him and Walter when August gives that bizarre speech about Simon’s class journey.

These moments highlight how different life at Hillerska (and beyond) looks for Henry and Simon. They are technically coexisting and even doing the same things, but their experiences are nothing alike.

However, there is also some potential for development here. August’s words about rowing bringing people together (and also about the class journey) should absolutely be taken with a heap of salt, but as we no longer see any open animosity between Henry and Simon, we can still wonder if rowing played a part.

Being on the same sports team is an entirely new frame of reference for these guys. They are no longer just the sosse and aristocrat who have been going to school together since pre-canon and clashing over their views; they are crewmates. They may be able to ignore each other for most of the time, but they may also have to do some team activities or even cooperate on occasion. At the very least, they will be around each other several extra times a week from late September/early October to Christmas break. This could definitely help to put them on more neutral ground.

1.05: Henry pays attention to Wilmon

In this episode, Henry learns more about Wilmon than the average Hillerska student knows. He is present when August tells the Society that Wille and Simon “hang out”, and also when Wille changes the plan from Simon to Alexander.

What’s more, he actually looks fairly thoughtful leaving that last meeting. We don’t know if it’s just shock over Wille’s ruthlessness, if he’s thinking about the plan to set up Alexander, or if there’s something else on his mind.

Now, this may veer into overinterpretation, but for the sake of thoroughness, let’s also include the blink and you’ll miss it moment before the Lucia procession where Henry notices Wilmon texting each other. In this cropped screenshot, you can see him looking at Simon, who has just put his phone down and is looking over at Wille.

1.06: Henry shows restraint

As we know, Henry is the only classmate who tries to treat Wille normally after the video, asking if he “saw the match yesterday” (he absolutely knows Wille didn’t). What is perhaps less noticeable is that he also shows more restraint than most of his schoolmates when the rumour mill gets going.

In this scene, Henry is pretty dispassionate reminding Walter that Wilmon sat next to each other at movie night and the two of them talked about it. There is a stark contrast to Walter, who absolutely pounces on that bit of gossip.

This one quick scene could just be a coincidence, but the same thing happens again when Wilmon return to school. Instead of engaging with the others who are all eagerly talking and whispering, Henry is already sitting at his desk minding his own business when Wille arrives. His only reaction to Simon showing up is this quick look, which is immediately followed by his show of kindness to Wille:

So the restraint does look very intentional.

As an aristocrat, monarchist and Society boy, Henry is loyal to Wille, who he now knows has been carrying on with Simon for a while already. He also knows how far Wille went to protect Simon, despite the fact that Simon had actually supplied the drugs, so he is going to side with Wille.

What’s more, Henry’s behaviour in these scenes also confirms that he isn’t hostile to Simon. We can surmise he probably doesn’t think Simon is the most appropriate choice of partner for the crown prince, but he is willing to take his cues from Wille. We never see him sneer, joke, or say anything nasty about Wilmon as a couple (cf. Stella and Fredrika joking about surrogacy).

We are also shown his reaction to Wille hugging Simon before we move on to season two.

2.02: the floorball hug and walk-by

The first interaction between Henry and Simon in S2 is them celebrating a floorball goal with a spontaneous hug, as seen at the top of this post. What a difference a term makes!

Now, I don’t think this moment is meant to signify that they are friends all of a sudden, and I do feel it comes slightly out of the blue. I suspect it was included as a nod to those who already liked Henry after S1, but I for one would’ve preferred to actually see their reconciliation.

But then again, if their initial antagonism was always class conflict rather than personal beef, maybe there was no need for apologies…? Maybe each of them just accepted that the other was going to be around and decided to try and get along (potentially aided by their shared rowing team history)? Henry is following Wille’s lead as we already saw – and as for Simon, I doubt he would be hugging Henry even in the heat of a game if he held a grudge. Whether we saw it or not, they have moved on.

In the same episode, we also have the locker room scene.

Contrary to popular opinion, I don’t believe Henry actually overhears the entire conversation, but he may have still heard something about them having to wait two years (as Simon did raise his voice for that). It’s also possible he comes out of this scene assuming that Wilmon still “hang out” in secret. In any case, he probably assumes that Wille wants to keep the whole thing quiet, as per the usual “policy” on queer relationships among the upper classes. In addition to his monarchist ways, he also seems to be casually friendly with Wille in S2 (keeps inviting him to do stuff, from coffee to pranking Sprucewood). So it makes a lot of sense for him to keep whatever he overhears or suspects to himself.

2.03, 2.05 and 2.06: book report scenes

While Henry must be a nightmare to have in the group, he and Simon are nice to each other in all the book report scenes. This is further proof that they are in a place where they can talk civilly and even work together.

They start the project before the rowing race and only present it the day before the gun range scene, which means they had these group sessions for at least a few weeks (the timeline is a bit wonky here).

2.04: Henry snitches on Wille and Felice

The lunch scene at the start of the episode starts with this bit of vicarious interaction, as Henry and Simon (and Wille too) are amused by the nonsense Walter is spouting about girls:

Also, Walter's monologue feels more comphet every time rewatch it, but I digress.

As this post is focused on Henry and Simon, I’m not going to dig too deep into Henry’s role in spreading the story about Wille and Felice. Suffice it to say that he did tell his canonically gossipy bestie Walter, and it was recently pointed out to me that he seems to have let something slip to someone else as well. In the common room, Walter goes “det var du som sa till…” [you were the one who said to…] just as the focus shifts to Wille and Nils, which suggests that Henry either purposely told someone or misspoke without realising it. The latter would explain why he seems genuinely appalled when Wille confronts him, but it’s not a hill I’d be willing to die on!

If Henry did spread the story on purpose, I assume it was because getting with Felice was considered a credit to Wille and also “fair game” to tell, unlike the relationship with Simon that Wille wanted to keep hidden.

Still, Henry and Simon are definitely on better terms in S2. Even though Henry inadvertently causes pain to Simon with his part in the Wille and Felice thing, they still keep working together on the book report without any animosity.

Insofar as Henry’s lacklustre effort can be called working. Simon is a bigger person than I am for not blowing up at him when he announces right before the presentation that he won’t be taking any questions because he barely read the book.

3.01: background Henry

We start S3 off with this one-sided interaction where Henry reacts to Wilmon kissing with a mild smirk. No more waiting or secrets to keep.

3.02: double standards on the camping trip

It’s not entirely clear what Henry is thinking when he says the infamous line about gay couples being allowed to share but not straight ones. I think some people read it as him deliberately putting Wilmon on the spot, but personally, I doubt he even realises it’s going to make them uncomfortable. He’s just noticing the double standard and pointing it out to mess with the teacher.

While Simon is very clearly not pleased with Henry for the comment (glares at him while saying to Wille that people are going to think they plan to have sex), he does not seem to hold that against him. Because what we do see them doing soon?

Sitting next to each other by the fire, even though Henry could’ve easily sat with Walter and Simon with Wille:

Also, it seems Henry isn't new to camping, as he tells Wille that part of the fire is too hot to grill a sausage in.

The part where things get interesting is when Henry acts classist towards the Marieberg students.

Henry seems to be down with meeting Rosh and Ayub, who are there as Wille and Simon’s friends. But after Fredrika brings up New York, he agrees that the situation turned “stiff as fuck.” That stiffness was entirely Fredrika’s fault (I think she is at least semi-consciously trying to mark herself as the most compatible partner for Stella there), but Henry seems to feel it was more about Rosh and Ayub not fitting in.

He also sneers and makes nasty comments when the other Marieberg students get into an altercation with Malin, which elicits a frown from Simon.

And yet, Simon does not condemn Henry as strongly as he might have done in the past.

Importantly, Simon tells Wille “it wasn’t the right time for everyone to meet.” This indicates that he could’ve imagined them all getting along at a better time, and it’s pretty clear that includes Henry. Furthermore, “you [meaning Wille and the others] don’t realise how privileged you are sometimes” is actually a pretty neutral way of putting it. Simon would have been entirely justified if he had called the others classist pricks, but he blames their privilege and lack of understanding instead of their character.

All of this forms a backdrop for my interpretation of the scenes in the next episodes.

3.03: First of May

Simon: “You do know that you’re not off so you can party the day before, right?” Henry: “Uhh…what?” Simon: “It’s the First of May.” […] “The day of the labour movement?” Henry: “Okay, so what’s their style? How do they celebrate?” Simon, scoffing: “You don’t celebrate. You demonstrate.” [Henry and Walter share a chuckle]

This may be a controversial take, but I don’t think Henry is being particularly nasty to Simon here.

He actually looks and sounds quite sincere asking how the labour movement celebrates. When he and Walter laugh, it reads more as “there he goes again, our very own sosse, saying wacky things!” than the kind of disdain he expressed towards the Marieberg students in the last episode.

Simon also doesn’t take the laughter as an insult; he’s just stupefied by their ignorance. Also, note that he already scoffed at Henry’s question, marking it as silly.

This exchange is immediately followed by Vincent attacking Simon for his beliefs, which feels like an intentional trick to create contrast between his and Walty’s treatment of Simon.

3.04: the lollipop

In this scene, Henry starts out asking quite nicely and seriously if Simon has another lollipop, as if they had that kind of rapport. Simon makes a face, but then he just shakes his head and nicely says no. It’s only then that Henry switches to offering money for the already half-eaten lollipop, to which Simon reacts with disbelief.

He does not, however, get snarky with Henry. He settles for exchanging a look with Wille as Walty go on to complain about the hunger strike. Only when Henry isn’t present anymore does Simon point out to Wille how ridiculous he was being.

In a sort of parallel to the lunch scene, Simon and Wille now share a chuckle at the wacky thing Henry said:

Feel free to disagree, but I actually wonder if this could be a common pattern between Simon and Henry. They have accepted that they aren’t going to see eye to eye on many things, but instead of getting into conflict, they just roll their eyes/laugh at how the other can seriously believe/say such things. Then they let the conversation move on to something else.

Which is a perfectly valid dynamic. They can acknowledge that their outlooks on life are wildly different without hating each other for it.

3:06: Henry includes Simon

Look, I dislike the library scene as much as the next person. The talk that Henry interrupts between Wilmon was so much more important than anything he could possibly say. It was just a moment of comic relief that didn’t add anything to the story.

Except… Now that we are tracing Henry and Simon’s “not-quite friendship” arc, this scene does give us a conclusion.

Henry: “Hi! Uh, what are you wearing tonight?” [He rambles on about clothes] Wille: “I don’t know if… If I’m coming.” Henry: “Okay…?” Simon: “I don’t know if I can come either.” Henry: “Oh come on, you two have to come!” [He rambles on about how much fun it will be] Simon: “Yeah, we’ll see. I have to go now.” Henry: “The point is that we have to be together! This is the only night we have together, maybe ever. [I mean, we are brothers!]”

In Swedish, Henry goes “vi är ju bröder” just as the music starts. This has been translated to “we are like brothers” in the English CC, which is already quite something, but the little word ju makes the original even stronger. It means that something is true, so instead of just saying they are like brothers, Henry is saying that is what they are.

(In the dub, there is an audible pause after like, so Henry is actually using it as a filler word. They should have put a comma in the CC to denote that.)

Given that Henry prefaces this ramble with “you two have to come” and barely stops to acknowledge Simon’s exit, there’s every reason to assume he is still talking about all of them. He is saying he considers himself, Wille, and also Simon part of the brotherhood that will be disbanded indefinitely come morning and wants them all to have one last night of fun together.

Simon never hears the brothers part and is of course frustrated with Henry for interrupting, but he still takes his leave on a casually friendly note. He gets that Henry wants him to come and have fun (Henry is likely unaware that Simon doesn’t drink when he tries to persuade them both by talking about the alcohol). Thus, Simon politely says “we will see” even though he has zero intention of going.

We do not see them interact at the party when Simon turns up after all, but we do hear Henry being ushered away when Simon comes to talk to Wille. We don’t see it’s Henry, but someone insists that he wants to stay just as we see Walter and Alexander leave, and all three of them were there moments before:

I’m tempted to end this with a parallel to Wille’s initiation party.

Way back in 1.01, Henry and Simon were explicitly shown discussing the first party with their friends. They never talked about it with each other or interacted there – Henry attended as part of the in-crowd, and Simon only got to go because he supplied the alcohol. But for this last party, Henry is the one to get the alcohol, and he specifically invites Simon to come. They still don’t hang out at the party as they are both there with their respective friends, i.e. in their own bubbles, but those bubbles do bump into/brush past one another without clashing.

Kind of like Henry and Simon’s lives.

Thank you for reading this marathon post! I hope my take on these two brings something to your next rewatch, whether you agree with me or not!

#young royals #henry young royals #simon eriksson #young royals analysis #henry and simon #yr faves fest #yr events #YRFavesFest2024 #long post #with pictures!#wish i had the energy to write something new about these two #scheduled post #young royals meta

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