#the northuldra

[greatqueenanna]

I occasionally come across posts that claim that Frozen 2 is racist. One example being is Iduna herself, how she was retconned to be indigenous despite her white presenting self. Another is a video I saw on TikTok saying how they had her marry Aganrr aka her colonizer (even though I sincerely doubt Agnarr would follow what Runeard tried to do her people). And another time I saw a Youtube comment saying how the Northuldra are not Saami but Native Americans cosplaying as Saami.

I've said this before, but I'll reiterate my main viewpoints when it comes to this topic because the response was back in 2022, so might as well refresh it.

My viewpoint on this topic is this -

If you are not Sámi, then I don't think it is appropriate to speak on how well the representation was done. We should let the Sámi voice their own opinions, and not try to interject our own biases or talk over them. This goes for both negative and positive comments.

I understand where people are coming from here. All they want is to make sure that a group of people are being represented well and respected. They want to be sure that Disney is not just trying to cash in on a half-assed job at representation at the expense of a group that was often marginalized, discriminated against, and colonized.

However, I do think that when we try to defend on behalf of others, we often create problems that were not considered one in the first place, due to our own biases. What do I mean?

I often bring @hb-pickle's post (linked below), where she emailed Professor Veli-Pekka Lehtola, one of the people on the Sámi Advisory group that helped work on F2. He gave incredible insight on the development of F2, and was very happy with the work they did and the treatment they received.

He mentions within his response three main concerns they had during development.

That Yelena was a villain at first.

That the Northuldran attire was at first even more vague than it is now, and looked more like a non-specific arctic attire.

That the Reindeers were running in a circle at the end, as this was not realistic.

You can read the original response to see more details on these and how the team navigated them.

Out of these three issues - not one of them is about Iduna saving and marrying her 'colonizer', or about Iduna presenting white. These issues are things that are brought up mostly by western audiences. Thus, western audiences are creating a problem , and thus speaking over the group they are trying to protect.

In fact, even the film team did this to some extent. With the second issue that I mentioned above, the film team explained to the advisors that the reason they did not want to specifically represent Sami clothing and colors with the Northuldra, is because they did not want to 'culturally appropriate' them.

Thus, the team was making a decision on what the Sami should consider offensive, much like how western audiences are doing the same with Iduna's character.

I would advise seeking out Sami opinions. I have linked some articles below that you can check out.

“Reindeer are better than people:” Indigenous Representation in Disney’s Frozen

Disney's 'Frozen 2' thrills Sámi people in northern Europe

The last link is from a tumblr blog that is now closed. However, you can get a little bit of info from this user before the read more, unless someone has their full article somewhere.

[womeninfictionandirl]

Honeymaren concept art by Bill Schwab

[jessi-skylark]

Exploring a scene where Honeymaren is studiously learning all the tribal wisdom of an elder in the tribe…

Any votes for your favorite?

A:

B:

C:

Regardless, I finally achieved some beautiful results, and a consistent character, spending hundreds of hours training a “Honeymaren” AI model…but the style is super inconsistent…so much work to be done

[vavialdavi]

We as society need to bring back Frozen memes 🗿

You can repost if you want but tell me before and credit me (I'll know if you don't, I'm caribbean)

[sivyera]

cinnamon girl

frozen 2 elsa x fem!northuldra!reader

༺☆༻

"We are called Northuldra, we're the people of the sun." You heard Yelena say as you watched your people welcome the Queen and princess of Arendelle with opened arms after they found out that their mother was on of us.

You watched the whole interaction from afar, you didn't want to participate. You were still suspicious of them, the fact that their mother was one of us didn't change the fact that people from Arendelle once attacked you.

You rolled your eyes on this whole situation and went back to your teepee without noticing that the Queen of Arendelle saw you.

It was already dark when you were sitting next to your campfire near your teepee in the village. You had your baby reindeer's head placed on your thighs while you were stroking it's head.

You heard the kids laughing with the snowman that arrived with them and you had to admit that he was kinda funny. As you were stroking your baby reindeers head you heard someone clear their throat. You looked up and saw the Queen of Arendelle herself.

"May I?" She asked politely and point at the space that was next to you as if she wanted to sit down next to you.

You slowly nod your head and she sat down. That caught the ears of your baby reindeer who stood up and started sniffing her hand. She offered you a warm smile but your face remain stoic.

"Do you need something?" You asked her calmly as you were stroking your baby reindeers fur. She raised her eyebrow and giggled awkwardly before speaking again.

"I noticed that you were far from others when we came, why is that?"

Now that was your turn to raise an eyebrow. You simply shrugged your shoulders and continued stroking you baby reindeer. "It's simple, I don't trust you." You answered calmly to her question without looking at her.

That caught her a little of guard, because she thought that the Northuldra people are in peace with her, clearly you weren't. It made her confused and once again her curiosity got the best of her.

"Why don't you trust me?" She asked curiously as she tilted her head a bit to one side. You looked up at her with raised eyebrow, was she serious? It was obvious why.

"Your people betrayed us, attacked us, that's why." You said in a harsh tone yet still you remained calm. Elsa took a deep breath, she could have known that you're gonna say that. She still didn't knew the whole true but she understood you.

"Look, I apologize for any mistakes that people of Arendelle ever did, but I don't know the whole truth yet, like why is this voice calling me." Elsa said in a calm voice and gave you once again a warm smile at the end. You looked into her eyes for any signs of a lie but there was none. She was genuine.

You felt a bit sorry for her, you could see that she was desperate to find the truth she needed or the voice that was calling her. You also felt bad that you were judging her before knowing this.

"A voice?" You asked. You were also hearing some voice or sound but you thought it was the forest speaking or the wing singing, so you wasn't paying much attention to it.

"Yes, a voice! It's like singing or calling me, I-I think I'm going crazy." She laughed. Elsa was a bit nervous about telling you about the voice, it may sound really crazy to someone and she didn't wanna be judged or mocked.

"That's strange." You said as you looked up at the night sky. Sometimes you could find the answer in the stars but know it was pure chaos.

Elsa nodded slowly and looked down at her hand that was buried in your baby reindeers fur. "You are a strong and a smart woman, I know you will figure it out." You said calmly as you return your eyes back on her.

Elsa was shocked. This, this was all she needed. Words of appreciation. She loves Anna and she appreciates her help but Elsa needed to figure it out herself, not with Anna behind her all the time, putting herself in danger.

She needed to know that she can do this. She needed some credit and you gave it to her, which warmed her heart. She couldn't help but smile at you with a small blush covering her cheeks.

"Thank you, I needed this." She answered with the same wide smile and blush on her cheeks.

You return the smile and nod your head. She actually wasn't that bad and you now really hoped that she will find out the truth she seeks.

It was getting darker by each minute so you decided to go back to your teepee. As you and her stood up from the ground you said goodbye and good night to each other.

Few minutes after she turned and started walking to her borrowed teepee, you stopped her by stepping in front of her. Before Elsa could ask what you needed you kissed her cheek. Then you smile, wished her good night one more time and went to your teepee.

Elsa froze at the place for few more seconds before her face became red as a tomato. Her fingers touched the place on her cheek where you kissed her as her smile got wider.

She promised herself that after she finds out the truth, she will come back to you and take you on a proper date.

[tadpole-art]

🍁🍂 Iduna 🍂🍁

[virtual-winter]

We finally know the full layout of the canon Frozenverse!

Thanks to this post (requires an account) by twitter-user ann_mochi and this tumblr-post by @sparebutton , we FINALLY have a full map of the known Fozen movie-universe!

Previously, we've seen glimpses of the general geography of Arendelle and the surrounding lands from Frozen Fever, Frozen II and in books and promotion material surrounding the movies and I even wrote a 3-part series about Frozen's geography back in 2021, but never before has there been a source showing Anna and Elsa's world to its full extent and in such detail!

Original image.

Thanks to this image being framed and hung on a wall, the process of aligning it correctly was very easy! I used my ancient copy of SketchUp to edit and match the photo to a flat surface and with the help of Gigapixel upscaling, this is the result!

Note: north is to the left.

It looks awesome IMO 😍

For future installments, what we're missing are labels for other adjacent kingdoms, but it appears Disney never seems to bother with such trivial worldbuilding details.

Below, I've put together a quick overview of the areas visible on previous Frozen maps.

The Frozen Fever map mostly covers ocean. The northern half of the continent was changed in Frozen II.

Iduna's map from Frozen II map was the most detailed version we had for a long time and it added things like borders and names for the Arenfjord and the Dark Sea. It covers 3/4 the full map.

Technically, the whole map was also featured in the books "Frozen: The Saga - Anna and Elsa's Journey" and "Frozen II: Spirits of the Enchanted Forest" but it was impossible to attempt any sort of aligning because of the distorted perspective.

There is one more piece of the worldbuilding-puzzle (Weselton) that could be added, but I'll save that for another time.

[frozen-snowflakesandsunflowers]

Norse mythology in the Frozen universe: How it's all connected | Part 2 | Analysis | Theory

Like part 1, I'll be deciphering and analysing the Nordic runes and Norse mythology in Frozen 2.

Norse mythology in Frozen 2

The stones of the Four elemental spirits

The first piece of runes we get is from the moment we're introduced to the enchanted forest.

Initially we all thought these were runes but when it came to deciphering them we couldn't because it was revealed that these were symbols of the four elemental spirits but they made it look runic to go with the Norse mythology aspect. These aren't symbols in Norse mythology.

The scroll in the abandoned ship

This scroll contains symbols, some that look like Nordic runes but aren't. Some of these are the elemental spirits' symbols. I looked up Norse mythology symbols and none of them matched to any of these in the scroll. Then I came across @greatqueenanna's incredible post breaking down this scroll and what it means.

The Elemental Spirits

The Nøkk is based on the Nøkken in Nordic folklore aka Norse mythology. It's known as a dangerous fresh water-dwelling creature that plays a fiddle to lure his victims out onto thin ice on foot or onto water, then draws them down to the bottom of the water where he is waiting for them. It can also shape shift into a horse or a man.

In Frozen's version it does a similar thing except I believe it does so to protect Ahotohallan from strangers who may seek power. It did this with Elsa when she was crossing the dark sea but Elsa managed to tame it and control it. It is also believed by fans that the Nøkk was the reason their parents didn't survive the dark sea. I have a whole post about that here.

The giants in the mythology are called the Jöntar. They can shapeshift and also have great strength and size, which allows some to survive attacks by the gods. They're from the realm of Jotunheim or Jötunheimr. They're basically the trolls that I mentioned in my previous post.

The giants in Frozen are called the Earth giants and are huge and rocky and have great strength. They can't shapeshift though.

The wind spirit's counterpart in Norse mythology is Njǫrd, the god of the wind and of the sea and its riches. His aid was invoked in seafaring and in hunting, and he was considered the god of “wealth-bestowal,” or prosperity.

The wind Spirit in Frozen's universe is literally the wind and can take up the form of leaves or snowflakes.

Finally the Fire Spirit in Norse mythology is actually the fire giants called Surt or Surtr. He's a fire demon/ giant who ruled in the realm of the fiery wilderness called Muspelheim. Surt was the guardian of Muspelheim. He stood at the border, brandishing a flaming sword. At the time of Ragnarok, the end of the world, Surt was destined to lead the fire giants into battle against the gods.

In Frozen's universe the fire spirit is a small salamander that breathes pink fire.

Norse mythology theories for Frozen 3

While the spirits are inspired by Norse mythology, Frozen II is based more on the Sami culture which is Iduna's side of the family. Frozen I had Norse mythology but I believe Frozen III and IV will go even further with the Norse mythology with referencing the Valhalla, a paradise of viking warriors, vikings, and more.

Norse mythology in Frozen is nothing new except the fact that it'll have a bigger role and be more obvious. I myself had no clue what these runes and spirits meant in the first two films until I saw the concept and theories for Frozen 3. Vikings and realms are going to be shown in the Frozen 3 and I'm excited!! I've honestly never been a big fan of Norse mythology. But the way Frozen is depicting it and how creative it is with it makes it much more interesting.

Iduna and Agnarr's return

But there's another theory that I want to discuss. If we look at the concept art again...

...we see at least 3 viking figures. One being the most obvious one with its reflection in the water and the two faint ones standing on the clouds near the majestic hall aka Valhalla.

Two of them, the ones on the cloud, could be Iduna and Agnarr. If you've read the first part to this post, you'll know I mentioned Agnarr being on Valhalla as it's a place where Vikings go after death. Iduna's spirit seems to be in Ahotohallan and can be visited anytime by Elsa. But Agnarr's spirit could be in Valhalla. That could be him on Valhalla. But since there's two, maybe the other could be Iduna. Maybe she also was considered as a viking, or just as a wife of a viking who can also appear in Ahotohallan too (as her appearance in Ahtohallan in Frozen 2 was unclear if it was a memory or her spirit). It could be that they were always watching over their daughters and are waiting for a moment to see them as they know they are about to encounter a big adventure.

Hans could be like Loki

I have this theory that Hans is like Loki. Mischievous and a trickster and a throne thief but really just wants to be accepted after he was not loved by his biological family. In the Marvel Cinematic Universe he eventually is redeemed and saves the universe with a few fake deaths here and there. Hans should not at all die if he's redeemed, not even as a sacrifice! I believe he'll be redeemed and help the Frohana gang save whatever's at stake (potentially the universe!). Some people believe that the shadow figure is Loki with the horns and staff. Now we don't know if the Shadowy Viking figure is a new character or if it's actually Hans metaphorically. If Norway had old Norse, Denmark had too, meaning the Southern Isles must contain some Norse mythology in its history as Arendelle does, which means Hans could have Viking/ Norse mythology ancestry just like Elsa and Anna do.

And that's all I could find Norse mythology related in Frozen 1 and 2. Frozen 3 and 4 definitely seems to be more Norse mythology related than the others so that's why I've made these posts, to show the connection to the previous two films in case people didn't notice it before or felt the theme was out of the blue or something new. So I hope these two posts help!

Frozen 3 and 4 are definitely going to be the movies we never knew we needed!

[jessi-skylark]

Love your take! Your ideas are inspiring creating a comic of how honeymaren and elsa fall in love. Feel like we got to give Honeymaren a pretty epic backstory to be able to deserve elsa....

HONEYMAREN, RYDER AND YELANA IN “FROZEN 3″

This post unfortunately could end up becoming a remake of my expectations about the participation of the Northuldra tribe in “Polar Nights” that ended up frustrated and left me with only easter eggs and references that accidentally or not seemed to confirm some ElsaMaren events of “Disney Magical Kingdoms”. But again, I will create expectations and hope that this trio is developed without the need to go after other products to understand their participation. And with that said, I’ll start with the character I believe is least likely to be relevant: Yelana.

YELANA

Or Yelena is the leader of the tribe (and the only one of the trio with a Nordic name) and ironically the one most likely to be important, but after especially “Polar Nights” I gave up having expectations of her (although I still believe in her in the books). A feature of her in the novelizations (“the deluxe junior novelization” and especially “the enchanted forest”) that was somewhat neglected is her sternness, Yelana in the books is much more aggressive in her words openly confronting Elsa while in the film the dialogue was more smoothed. There are two details about Yelana that could be covered in a movie or book, one of which I’ll touch on when I get to the Honeymaren topic, but the other is her past with Iduna which unfortunately I believe has also been ruled out. Elsa’s main development with the powers in “Polar Nights” is learning how to bring back memories using Ahtohallan, and my theory is that Elsa might want to talk to Yelana to hear tales of Iduna’s past like Anna did with Mattias and Agnarr’s past I think it became an impossible wish. I already wrote a justification in a fanfic for Elsa even though she has this power she wants to hear these memories of Yelana, but I really think it has little chance. The continuation of the theory about Yelana is in the part about Honeymaren.

Note: I wouldn’t be surprised if she died in the movie.

RYDER

The character created in honor of Chris Buck’s deceased son and whose only function in the film is to be someone Kristoff talks to. His personality has expanded into someone more outgoing and talkative than his sister, it’s easier for him to like modernity. And also in opposition to his sister he has a greater desire to see the world beyond the Enchanted Forest (obviously she is also curious, but Honeymaren is a more reticent person). I already wrote a fanfic where he moves along with some other Northuldras to Arendelle, in Arendelle they create a neighborhood inspired by the tribe and eventually Ryder becomes the leader of this group being the direct representative with Queen Anna, this is a future that I think which can’t be possible because I don’t imagine such a great exploration of the character and such a radical alteration of his status quo, but I think it’s very likely that he is the Northuldra most directly linked to Arendelle. In my list of things that could happen in F3 I mentioned that Ryder and Kristoff could be the heroes of the movie using their ability to talk to reindeer and I still believe in this theory or at least it could be used as an interesting joke. Another point that connects the two men are trolls, also only in the books does Ryder show an interest in trolls when Kristoff mentions them.

HONEYMAREN

The character who is one of the great doubts of F3 and along with her brother has non-Nordic names and in her case there are as many theories about her name as what her relationship with Elsa could become. One of my first theories about Honeymaren was: “Honeymaren and Yelana were originally the same character before they decided to support #GiveElsaAGirlfriend” and today I believe it is one of my most correct theories. Honeymaren is likely Yelana’s apprentice being more introverted and connected to the Enchanted Forest having a sense of leadership, with a deep interest in magic and devotion (or/and passion) to Elsa. But why would Honeymaren interfere with Yelana’s role? Precisely this magical knowledge, Honeymaren’s interest in magic has already officially made her the main source of information about magic for Elsa, and if on the one hand this is great for the development of ElsaMaren, on the other hand it is another stone for Yelana’s future. Honeymaren becoming the future leader of the Northuldra tribe, Elsa’s main advisor on the spirits, perhaps the one who will teach her physical combat and her ideal future companion whether it be romantically or just to share jokes and be the person for her to lean on from time to time.

In the end, can this post be considered simple? Maybe, but really after 4 years of F2 release and the only place they put some development for the Northuldra tribe is a mobile game it made me wait for the basics instead of creating high expectations. Perhaps in an ideal world the tribe would have a great development of their mythology and something like the return of Woodsman or having some context for this Yelana concept art would be possible, but in a movie it became almost impossible for me. I consider myself a skeptical and realistic person so I prefer to focus on your personal development interacting with the main ones than much beyond that.

[alinahdee]

Elsa is really out here living the biracial white-presenting disconnected Native dream

[saaneaart]

Young Iduna 💜🪻⋆.༘⋆

[saanea]

⋆˚࿔ 𝐀𝐠𝐧𝐚𝐫𝐫 & 𝐈𝐝𝐮𝐧𝐚 𝜗𝜚˚⋆

[womeninfictionandirl]

Yelena concept art by Bill Schwab

[jessi-skylark]

Frozen Concept art: what would King Runeards damn look like post collapse? Exploring drawing its ruins…

Original shot from frozen 2:

[vavialdavi]

Credit: Brittney Lee (D23 2024)

The first piece of concept just got leaked! What we can assume/theorize:

- Considering the general atmosphere, the movie will take place in Spring (as I expect cause we already got Fall in F2 and both Summer and Winter in F1). I'm just hoping it will be the next Spring after F2

-The spirits and lore they introduced in F2 won't be left out, or least Nokk won't

- There's a slight chances the movie takes place a new places cause the trees look slighly different from the Enchanted Forest's

Unless it's an area in the forest where the vegetation is quite different or I'm over analyzing

- We're gonna have either a real MAGICAL antagonist or a character who appears at such at first. They look like they have a cap so these horns could be fake

- Their weapon reminds me a bit of the Northuldra's. It may be a different type but still one of their traditional tools

- They're clearly not the same but the way the character is holding it is similar to how Yelena holds hers in this concept art (also made my Brittney Lee). Not to mention this Ryder concept art by Jin Kim. So maybe a sign of the return of our Northuldra characters...?

-The Northern lights are gonna have an important role in the movies (since it's confirmed F3 and F4 are a same story cut in halves)

- We might meet the previous fifth spirit (or spirits)! It's a bit blurry and subtle but the two characters in front of the strange castle seems to quite have reindeer's horns. I'm even assuming the one on the left could be an actual reindeer

For those who are familiar with the deleted, Frozen 2 originally portrays a prologue where a character who could turn into a reindeer. It's kinda imply they were the fifth spirit

I have a strong feeling Frozen 3 and 4 are gonna include a lot the ideas they couldn't include in Frozen 2. Unlike Frozen's, a lot of Frozen 2's deleted scenes could still make sense in the canon verse

Remember these are my personal assumptions, feel free to agree or disagree!

[frozen10fanzine]

As Promised....

8 people, 8 months, 3 social media accounts, and 23 contributions later, we present to you...

Our Love Letter to Frozen, for the 10th Anniversary (if a tad late).

Anna & Elsa have discovered new memories in Ahtohallan - our memories, the fans of Frozen. They found it as the Fifth Spirit. As Sisters.

You can find them here.

As a free, downloadable PDF.

Thank you for all your love and support,

the Water Has Memory Team