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nadas-dirthalen · 3 days ago

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A Veilguard Achievement Icon Opened My Eyes on 15 Years of Lore... but Was I Right?

PART TWO: What Veilguard Did Narratively, and What That Tells Us Going Forward

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Hello again, friends and travellers. Now that I've beaten Dragon Age: the Veilguard, I wanted to go through all those 30,000 words of predictions that I wrote in the ~11 days leading up to its release. I'd seen an achievement icon that pieced together a lot of Dragon Age lore for me.

But, I hadn't played Veilguard. All I had was the footage from September 19, the achievement list, and anything else BioWare had released.

So... was I right? And if so, how much was I right about?

This is your warning:This post will contain spoilers for the entirety of Dragon Age: the Veilguard, and all Dragon Age content made before Veilguard.

(my davrinmance is going great as i try and collect every codex, thanks for asking!)

Today's Discussion: to Understand Dragon Age, We Must Understand Its Writing.

Before I can go any further on why I think the way that I think, or why I imagine the story might take us in certain directions, it's essential that you all understand where I'm coming from. Veilguard, like any game, is a piece of art. Its bones are built with similar narrative structures to novels (though not identical, and that's important!). To make sense of what's to come, we must examine Veilguard's bones the same way.

I've seen a lot of people wondering why, for instance, the Inquisitor is not Veilguard's protagonist. I've seen people lamenting the fact that there were not on-screen clarifications of popular lore theories. Before this series goes any further, I need to say my piece about why I believe that it was essential that Veilguard was written as it was, and why its writing does in fact help us better predict Dragon Age's path forward moreso than even Inquisition.

That said, today I hope to cover:

What Veilguard Demanded of BioWare's Writing Team, and Why

The Protagonist: Why Rook's Perspective Matters

The 3 Act Structure: Our Lens

The Companions: Paths to Our Answers — and Future Games

What Veilguard Demanded of BioWare's Writing Team, and Why

Let's get this out of the way right away: it has been 10 years since Inquisition. And, like it or not, that means one gigantic thing for BioWare: if they wanted to have any hope of making more Dragon Age, they needed to bring in new players and resuscitate the interest of many old players who did not stay in the fandom the whole time. They didn't—and couldn't—write Veilguard specifically for you or I, people of Tumblr. If they did, it would've pleased us... and then cost them so much money that we'd never get any more Dragon Age.

That doesn't just mean modernizing the game's aesthetics, or providing a glossary in its Codex. It means they would have to balance all of the following (just at a glance):

Managing the learning curve in general. Not even I looked in the glossary as I played. Me, supreme enjoyer of all codices ever. It's just not something most players are ever going to do, as much as it the lore is such a fundamental part of the game in general. That means simplifying terms where possible — elven gods in place of Evanuris, for example — but also trimming down what would have to necessarily reference past games. Only a tiny fraction of the fanbase has played Inquisition in the last 3 years, nevermind this year.

Recontextualizing the lore. That does not mean rebooting it, it means situating all we have learned so far in a framework that fits all we have learned so far. Much of what we learned about the Evanuris seemed, for so long, to be totally separate for the things we knew about the blight and Blights. Veilguard needed to show us how those things relate, and to do so in a fresh context that would allow everyone to develop new understanding.

Pushing us one step past Inquisition's knowledge. Veilguard, after reframing the lore, had to leave us a path for new lore, and increased understanding. I think the devs put it really well when they say that their aim is to give us some answers, but leave us with even more questions. More on that later, and in future posts.

Updating Thedas' ethos. Let's face it. It has been 15 years since Origins came out. The things that were more typical of scifi/fantasy (SFF) then are just not the same now, and would not be perceived by 2024 players in the same way as by those who started Origins in 2009. The world has changed; our cultural understandings are broadening and need to continue broadening. BioWare is doing a good thing by incorporating things like nonbinary identities into Veilguard, and it is good that Veilguard is progressing the world of gaming in that way, especially considering its success. (This is also, I wager, why we choose an Archon out of two choices who want the same thing, rather than leaving that open to a more "evil" option).

Dislodge older fans from their Solas headcanons to get everyone old and new to the same confusion and potential distrust. Hear me out. Everyone who's stayed since Inquisition has beliefs about Solas. Even me, who got here in March of this year, whose fic reads overly soft now because I just didn't know Solas' grander plan until 48 hours before Veilguard came out. Everyone has had headcanons for so long that everyone has had time for their opinions of Solas to cement themselves. In order for Veilguard to work as a story, they had to debunk what everyone thought they knew: both lovers and haters of the famously controversial egg. By breaking down our existing beliefs, the devs open up essential curiosity from the players as to who—and what—Solas really is, which propels us through the narrative and has us absorbing information.

And this curiosity? It is why Veilguard could not have the Inquisitor as its protagonist. To keep us curious as players (and "readers" of the lore), BioWare needed a new protagonist.

Specifically, they needed Rook.

The Protagonist: Why Rook's Perspective Matters

Here's the thing. The protagonist is not just the face of the game. They are our vehicle to understanding that game. The plot follows their wants and responds to their understanding. What they don't know, what they want to know, is what makes up our every objective. Their emotional journey through the game is our emotional journey through the game. Following it, going after the things that matter to our protagonist, is how the entire game (including its lore) takes shape in our minds.

That's why it's essential that they don't know everything��especially after a ten year interim between games.

Veilguard's plot and twists proved that the Inquisitor did not know everything. They, in fact, knew less than half of everything. If we had kept them as the protagonist, all of our knowledge and curiosity would be shaped by the Inquisitor's understanding: a wrong understanding. We could constantly be fighting with what we think the Inquisitor should know, what should be true because we had seen it through the Inquisitor. We would be set up to be at odds with the very events of the game. Rook is a blank slate, barring a few key tonal indicators, and that blank slate allows for us to fit all previous lore into its new, recontextualized shape that I mentioned above. (Again, note that I am not saying rebooted.)

That, and Rook has multiple motivations. The Inquisitor is focused largely on stopping or saving Solas; Rook is charged with figuring everything out as it is happening to them in real time with almost no context or experience, AND stopping or saving Solas. The Inquisitor has existing allies and resources; Rook does not. Rook must build their own campaign from the ground up, and that means the player is building their own experience from the ground up. Their allies, abilities, and home base, yes, but also their knowledge. Discovering things at the same pace as Rook, with a similarly urgent drive to do so, keeps the game from infodumping at us. It keeps the reveals evenly spaced, but also immediately interesting to the player.

And best of all? Rook allows the writers to do what they want to Solas without breaking his dynamic with the endless sea of Inquisitors (or, at least, with way less risk of doing so). We needed to have our theories about him broken down and rebuilt as players; to do that to the Inquisitor would damage an entire sea of headcanons. We'd never get the Solavellan ending we wanted, for instance, if Solas had played mind games with Lavellan for that many months. And if Solas didn't do those things, if he'd been wholly defanged, he would have lost his appeal and importance in the narrative. He wouldn't be the Dread Wolf in the ways that matter to Veilguard.

It's important, then, that Rook has just the slightest bit of backstory. They care about their allies. They are not a potential political force like the Inquisitor. They have many options to be impulsive. Every single Rook has rebelled against authority. Every single one has a stubborn streak. BioWare put all those qualities there on purpose, because Solas uses every single one, in every single Rook, as a tool. That was all essential for his character development in this game! At the same time, they couldn't do that with the Inquisitor as protagonist, because after 10 years, no two Inquisitors are similar enough to predict/script their actions and responses in that way.

Those twists are perhaps the most important tool for forward momentum in the game. The more they keep us guessing, the more we'll play and seek new information, the more we'll learn. Which brings me to...

The 3 Act Structure: Our Lens

Like I said: BioWare couldn't just infodump at us in Veilguard. It wouldn't be interesting to even half the fans that stayed, these ten years. To keep us engaged as players, they had to string the lore through a series of engaging events. Keep the momentum up, so we would not be lazily looking over codices, but chasing new knowledge and understanding. It all had to be emotionally relevant and resonant to keep us caring, because very few people play games they don't care about.

Veilguard, like a lot of written art, follows the three act structure. Though there are a lot of variants on the more precise beats, they all broadly follow the same-ish path.

Hook: The opening image. In Disney movies, this is the song where the character sings about all the things they want in their journey, and what they truly need is only implied. It gives an opening note for the theme by showing what the character lacks, and what they might need to gain before defeating the final villain. In Veilguard, this is our prologue, centered entirely around Varric: the big red herring where we see that Rook is out of their depth, opting to push over a support beam rather than take on the Dread Wolf. Off-screen, it is also the background information about Rook, showing us who they are and what they want before we play.

Inciting Incident: The event that kicks off the main plot. In DA:tV, there's a big collection of these (because every companion needs one; we'll get to that). The first big one is, of course, the failed ritual. The death Rook doesn't see. The Evanuris are freed, but Rook has only half the information.

First Plot Point: "Plot Point" means "big/defining decision" in writer-speak. This is the moment the protagonist decides to go forth on their adventure. In video games, this is more or less determined for you, but you have the option to flavour this moment in Veilguard. You can choose how to tell Solas that you'll do what he wants: either by appeasing him or angering him. You do the same for Neve and Harding afterward, and then again in Arlathan and D'Meta's Crossing. You state that you're doing this, no matter what it takes.

First Pinch Point / "The Setback": "Pinch" means "twist" in writer-speak. It's the first time the narrative is shaken up, and is also usually the first time we see the true scope of the villain. In Veilguard, the first big twist has been called "the Setback" by some of the devs (notably, I heard it at a panel in September). For Veilguard, this is Weisshaupt. We see the true scope of Ghilan'nain's horrors, but we also see the first BIG hints (outside of Varric) that Solas is manipulating us—because he really doesn't seem to hate the Wardens as much as Inquisition enjoyers like myself expected. This event concludes act 1.

"New World" / "Fun and Games": The devs have remarked that they wanted to see the tone of their setback (Weisshaupt) threaded through the rest of the game, and we do: through Davrin and Lucanis' banter, through the reflections on the consequences of Weisshaupt, through every character struggling with their confidence and identity after that point, through the blight getting worse and worse and worse. That's what the New World is: the characters getting used to new circumstances after that first big twist. The Fun and Games are the slow and steady recovery from the twist, warming and solidifying formerly tenuous relationships. This is where we do a lot of companion and faction quests.

Midpoint: In a narrative that ends in a victory (so most games ever), the midpoint is a false victory. We think we've nailed something, only for something else to happen that begins to seed doubt in the protagonist's capability and/or ability to solve the plot. For Veilguard, this is the blighted dragon fight: we think we've got Ghilan'nain, but then Elgar'nan shows up and demonstrates that Rook is in so, so over their head.

Second Pinch Point: The second twist. The villain's identity is crystal-clear, and by now we've definitely interacted with the villain more directly. This is Arlathan, Elgar'nan's mind-trap—and Solas' "rescue" of Rook, showing his duplicity in full. Elgar'nan notably says a line about not falling for Fen'Harel's tricks again, and it foreshadows what we will see of Solas.

Disaster / Crisis: This is the event that triggers the protagonist's downward spiral. Not a twist (necessarily), but a catastrophe. In Veilguard's case, it's both: the Ghilan'nain fight leaves one companion dead-dead and another presumed dead. Then, the twist: Solas using Rook's sharply felt regret to pull his gambit and swap places with them. A series of events that literally had me gasping so frequently I got dizzy. Thanks, BioWare :) Many people say that this event, or something between this event and the "All is Lost" beat, conclude act 2. For games, the pacing is sometimes different, as is the cutoff mark, because otherwise the third act has the potential to be very short.

"All is Lost" / The Dark Night of the Soul: It's exactly as the name suggests: all has been lost. The protagonist doubts themself completely. It seems like nothing more can go wrong, and like nothing might ever go right again. The protagonist is at a loss for how to move forward. In Veilguard? Varric is dead. Davrin/Harding is dead. Bellara/Neve is dead. Rook is literally trapped not only in their regret, but in a reflection of Solas' regret. And to get out, they'll need...

"The Epiphany" / Second Plot Point: "Plot point" means "big/defining decision" in writer-speak, as stated above. Only this one contains more layers than the first. This is where the thematic statement of the piece comes out: the lesson that the protagonist must learn is stated, clearly, for all of us to see. It is the thing that picks them up off the ground, giving them strength to face the climax and the danger it promises. In Veilguard, this is Varric saying to Rook, "Have you learned nothing here?" and reminding both Rook and player that he chose this; Rook's companions chose this; we cannot blame ourselves for the actions of others. We cannot carry grief for other people, or we'll drown in it. Sound like any other character we know?

Climax: The big fight! But also, the big moment where the theme is shown to be the narrative key. In every ending of Veilguard, Rook being Solas' perfect mirror is the key to winning the day against the Dread Wolf. It just depends on what facet of Solas Rook chooses to mirror: the trickster, the nasty combatant, or the person who was haunted by their own failings and lost companions.

Resolution: Narrative threads are tied up, or a promise is made to tie up those loose ends in future installations. Veilguard's credits do both of those things. :)

Why am I telling you all of this? Because the lore must follow that skeleton. Every reveal we get must fit into both the timing and the feeling of those events. It would not fit to suddenly drop everything about the Titans right after Rook gets to the Lighthouse, which is why those enemies you need to kill to get the last memories are level 30-40. It would not fit to uncover everything about the blight's origin before Weisshaupt. If they forced us into that as players, all the casual fans and new players would duck out, feeling overwhelmed.

Even for us older fans, narrative structure shapes significance. You can tell a lot about a codex's overall importance and tone just by understanding where you find it, and when. That's why the Trespasser codices carry so much weight, even the ones about the Evanuris' actions that we don't see on screen at all: they are at the bitter end, and so they carry all the bitterness, longing, and mourning of that ending. Without the context of Trespasser, they mean less.

This is also why Veilguard paces its companion quests this way, not allowing you to complete them until later in the game. Every companion has something to teach us, and BioWare wanted to give each companion's narrative the weight it deserved.

The Companions: Paths to Our Answers — and Future Games

Anyone who's played Inquisition knows that companion quests shape entire facets of the lore in individual games, as well as set us up for the trajectory of the next games. Just look at Solas and Cole: together, they shaped our whole understanding of spirits in Veilguard. They set us up to ask all the right questions about not only spirits being bound as demons (Solas' quest), but about spirits being able to manifest in physical shape (Cole's quest). Together, their narrative conclusions foreshadowed much of the Evanuris' reveals in Veilguard: that they were spirits who could manifest into corporeal shape, and that they had the ability to ask others to manifest—and then bind them.

Again, these quests are paced throughout Inquisition's main plot. You cannot do their before Skyhold, and you cannot do them after the cutoff of (I believe) the Temple of Mythal. Inquisition forces you to see those quests' endings in the exact right spot: sometime around the midpoint (Adamant/WEWH), but before the disaster/dark night (the Temple of Mythal). They do that so you will feel that those things are significant.

Veilguard does the same thing. Every companion has a facet of the lore attached to it, but you cannot follow those threads to their conclusions at the beginning of the game. The game won't let you, because the moments need to be spaced out properly and carry the necessary emotional weight. Not all of their quests promise speculative material for future games in the same way, because some explain the context of the current game (Varric, in DAI, accomplished both with the red lyrium content, for instance; Leliana, meanwhile, dealt with the theme of faith in DAI and did not promise future speculation).

These concepts will all get far more attention in due time, but in short, here's what I think is associated with each companion:

Harding: Titans! But also, angry titans, and the difference between "angry titan" and "source of blight." In the same vein, what the dwarves should do going forward, and where they should place the titans in their culture.

Neve: The soul of Veilguard; her narrative is very current to DA:tV, in my early understanding. But she brings forth a lot of nuance to the themes of regret, and what that regret looks like on a smaller scale (a city, rather than a world). She does a lot of work in showing us that regret is regret, no matter the scale, and that the work we do to do better matters, no matter the scale. Additionally, her personal quest foreshadows Solas' use of blood magic against us being more than we thought by showing off Aelia's puppets, suggesting to us (tonally) that Rook may be Solas' puppet.

Bellara: The Forgotten Ones!! Anaris! Also, the place of ancient elvhenan in the future of Thedas, and what the elves should do/feel going forward.

Lucanis: I think they were going for some Forgotten One/Forbidden One hints, judging by some notes from the Ossuary and some banter between Lucanis and the others. This needs more dissection. Lucanis sort of does both what Bellara and Neve do: the Forgotten Ones, and also the heart of Veilguard's theme, with a lot of found family vibes thrown in.

Davrin: The blight itself, and the future of the blight without any archdemons left to cause capital-B Blights. Thedas' path to healing its nature.

Emmrich: The nature of what spirits are. I need to go screencap more specifics, but I swear this necromancer has referenced the difference between spirit and human soul and has stumbled upon saying that the two might not be so different at least once. Also, the Formless One centers around the Necropolis, and I'm thinking "spirits seeking bodies" and this whole idea of unlife/undeath is going to be explored later.

Taash: Remember how I said BioWare needed an ethos update? I think we see that most predominantly in Taash, whose entire personal quest is an examination of the values and priorities of different cultures, as well as the place of gender and gender ideology in Thedas. We saw this with Dorian and Krem in DA:I, but Taash modernizes that conversation (10 years has changed a lot!) and brings it front-and-center. At the same time, their existence is referencing (potentially) the Scaled Ones, and showing us that the kossith (Qunari) might have far more ties to Evanuris shenaniganry than we thought—and that those shenanigans did not happen on Thedas, but potentially far across the sea. (Neve and Lucanis accomplish this, also, with the Shadow Dragons and Crows, but not to the degree that Taash does).

This is why the companion quests MATTER, and (at least partially) why the game asks you to complete these quests or suffer consequences in the finale.

You know what else happens, upon completion of these companion quests?

You get codices. In Dragon Age, they are the threads that tie the seemingly disconnected pieces of the plot together, and that's on purpose. This time, they automatically unlock upon completing different stages of companion quests—and as far as I can tell right now, days after completing the game for the first time, the ones revealed later DO contain spicier hints about future lore than those revealed earlier.

And between ALL of these things—the demands Veilguard's timing placed on Bioware, the need for Rook as a protagonist, and the structure for every companion's quests—I think BioWare did an amazing, genius job with their narrative. Yes, I have seen some of the art book content, and yes, it would have been so cool to have those things, but... I truly do not think BioWare needed them, as close as I would have held cameos like Cole to my heart.

From a lore perspective? They knocked it out of the gods-damned park with Veilguard. They did an amazing job with each of their quests, and I promise: there is no shortage of juicy lore to be found in Veilguard. Now that I've inflicted an outline of what I know about stories upon you, I promise: all of this serves as context for everything I look forward to saying in future posts.

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If you got this far, thank you, as always!

This series is going to take a turn toward what I noticed in Veilguard, how I feel that Veilguard adds to my theories (or perhaps debunks some of them), and where I think the series is going to go from here. But in order to write all that properly and miss as little as possible (even though, in November 2024, with no wiki or transcripts, I am guaranteed to miss things), I need to keep playing the game and keep reading the codices I find.

Stay tuned for the next instalments, though I cannot say how quickly they will come after this. <3

#dragon age #dragon age: the veilguard #veilguard spoilers #da theory #da meta #solas #solas dragon age #evanuris #bellara #davrin #harding #neve #emmrich #taash #lucanis #da:tv #da:ve #dragon age: veilguard

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twinklingchode · 3 days ago

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see i always think about this and id like to actually do a deep dive here on tumblr. the fact that sam adds “we’re family” means he KNOWS it’s meant in a romantic context and he’s trying to shoot it down (not really, though). he knows dean means it lovingly, more than family, more than brothers. he’s his weak spot in every sense of the word and he’s trying to convey that to sam who picks up on it without a shadow of a doubt. it’s one of the most confirmed canon wincest scenes ever and it brings me such comfort

So what? We just stop looking out for each other? No, we stop being martyrs, man. We – we – we stop spreading it for these demons. We take this knife, and we go after Lilith our way. The way Dad taught us to.

SUPERNATURAL 3.16 No Rest For the Wicked

#samdean #wincest #supernatural #spn

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artlasjc · 2 days ago

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I UNDERSTOOD THE REFERENCE!!

I know it hasn't been an easy month so far for most of the fandom, so I'm going to say a little fun reference that I caught in the last episode that aired this Thursday. Kent Puckler from Dr. Drazel's troupe in episode 113 said a line that when I heard it I thought there was something more to it.

At minute 30:00 of the last Live while Scanlan says goodbye to "The boys" and Grog says "Watch out for Bears" Kent Puckler says: "I, I have a Thing with Bears"

Of course, it was a loose sentence in the middle of a special episode with the cast playing with Vox Machina again, but I (as I do with a lot of things in this fandom) thought deeper about it and remembered a fact that I almost missed if I hadn't been glancing at Taliesin at that moment, just glancing at it.

Because when I looked at Taliesin and at the same time Sam by his side, I remembered the One Shot Choose Their Adventure...Again! From Red Nose Day, where after Liam couldn't appear as Bard for this one-shot (He escaped again!!) Sam had to replace him at the last minute and since Sam didn't have another character he instead played a younger and I would say "innocent" version of Scanlan Shorthald before Vox Machina was even formed and still lvl 5.

Oficial ART from Annalise Jensen here is on Tumblr too from @may12324 amazing ART

I lost focus a little, sorry, ADHD,

Returning to the Subject in this One-shot we are introduced to another character who interacts with both Scanlan and Kent, the character of Taliesin Bobby Socks the SON of Kent Puckler

Again same artist Annalise Jensen

Well, if you've read this far, you must be wondering what Bobby has to do with Kent Puckler's phrase. Well, it's simple because Bobby Socks is a DRUID class, a Shepherd subclass.

With a BEAR TOTEM Call Bauble.

So since this came to my mind I've been wondering if this means that Kent Puckler has a bear problem because he has a son who is a Druid and is a good child that when Bobby talks about his father the Bears bother him, or because Bobby's own Bear Totem OR even Bobby himself turns into bears to scare his father thinking it's a joke???

We'll never know because I'm probably overthinking a joke I made at the moment about bears being scary to a troupe of musicians being Centaurs on a Road Trip.

Anyway, I just wanted to bring a smile to the face of the person reading this and take away some of their worries about the world. <3 <3

So if you can go watch 2023 Red Nose Day One Shot and have a laugh about Bobby Socks and a young Scanlan Shorthald.

thanks for reading this far

Good morning, good afternoon or good evening to you reading and it's Thursday yet?

#scanlan shorthalt #bobby socks #Kent Puckler #Red Nose day 2023 #critical role #sam riegel #taliesin jaffe #critical role spoilers

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mikesautism · 3 days ago

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I do not usually use tumblr and actively post but i plan doing so more often because i talk a LOT. And apparently it is too much for instagram to handle.

Anyway, i bring you mike wheeler headcanons. Again. But not in picture form!

- definitely audhd you cannot tell me otherwise

- gets overstimulated easily and when he does he usually just shuts down and doesnt speak because there is literally no normsl way to handle beinv overstimulated

- he cant see that well but refuses to get glasses

- hes had a cat before but the cat meowed a lot and mike would tend to repeat its meows even when it wasnt around (echolalia) . It got so intolerable they had to ask someone else to adopt it. He has mastered the art of meowing though

- he gets spooked pretty easily but rarely ever screams out of fear. Just starts swearing his ass off

- praying mantis is his favorite insect

- terrified of grass hoppers

- definitely queer in some way.

- No sense of fashion he'll wear whatever the fuck he wants. But if hes going out (which is often) he'll try to put on something he think other people would wear

- likes his hair short

- prefers el with shorter hair. He does not care if its buzzed again

- has cried about will countless times (s1-s2 hc specifically)

- would probably talk about will and his interests to El for HOURS on end (s1 hc) and El would be so confused

- as much as he feels like he doesnt deserve el, he has a weird feeling that hes obligated to date her.

- has gotten so stressed out with writing the perfect dnd campaign to the point he just tore it all to shreds and started quietly crying to himself (s1 specifically)

- admires eddies ability to be openly different and embrace it. This is optional for you to think but he probably had a harmless crush on him too

- when he used to hangout with will, he'd be talking non stop at all times and will would sit there and listen to him go on and on

This is all for now!! I have way more and ive chosen to remove some that i had initially but im @ miketism on insta and i have 3-4 full posts of just hcs and im pretty active :)!!

#mike wheeler is audhd argue with the wall #jk but like do you see where im coming from #im self projecting sorry #mike wheeler is gay #mike wheeler is in love with will byers #mike wheeler #stranger things #stranger things mike #headcanons

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callmebrycelee · 3 days ago

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9-1-1 REACTION

These are my confessions, just when I thought that I was starting to fall in love, my boyfriend unceremoniously decided to dump me.

After a week off and a presidential election that felt like a season of American Horror Story, we finally got a new episode of the gay firefighter show. Unfortunately I was spoiled by the episode's ending courtesy of Tumblr but nothing could've ever prepared me for how infuriating things would get. But, I'm getting ahead of myself. Let's start at the beginning. This reaction is for the season 8, sixth episode "Confessions" which originally aired November 7th, 2024. The episode was written by Andrew Meyers and directed by Life Goes On and Pretty Little Liars actor, Chad Lowe! Spoilers ahead!

Best plot?

This week's episode focuses on a handful of our main characters. We finally get some time with Eddie and we get a bonkers storyline involving Buck and Tommy. However, it is Maddie and Chimney's plot that is my favorite. A few episodes ago, Hen and Karen regained custody of Mara which means Jee-Yun is back to being an only child. Maddie laments that Jee-Yun is having trouble adjusting to a life where Mara isn't her big sister anymore even though the two see quite a bit of each other. She suggests having a second child but Chimney has some trepidation about having another kid. During an emergency involving a little kid getting stuck in a drain pipe a la "Eddie Begins", Chimney consoles his older brother who blames himself for his little brother wandering off and winding up in a dangerous situation. The little boy (played by Tiberius Byrd) volunteers himself to be lowered down in the pipe so he can pull his absolutely adorable baby brother out of the drain. Afterwards, Chimney warms to the idea of having a little brother or sister for Jee-Yun.

In their final scene, Chimney and Maddie have a raw and open conversation regarding their concerns about having another child. Chimney tearfully tells Maddie that if she is ever feeling sad or overwhelmed, she needs to come to him. She doesn't get to leave or try to figure it out on her own. He asks for total and complete transparency. Wow! I think we sometimes forget that while Maddie is a trauma magnet, Chimney has been right there since the beginning experiencing those tragedies with her. He went through the Doug situation with her. He spent six months raising Jee-Yun on his own while looking for Maddie. For him, having another child could send Maddie back down that same dark path again.

Now Maddie has some conditions of her own. She tells Chimney that they can't go into her pregnancy acting like she's broken. Oh, and yes you read that correctly. Maddie is pregnant! Yay!!! This is the best thing to come out of the episode and it makes me excited for this couple. Hopefully this time around, things will be much better for them.

Best emergency sequence?

We got three emergency sequences this episode but the best by far is the one involving veteran actor Jonathan Silverman. The Weekend at Bernie's and more recently Goosebumps actor plays a man named Walter Schaffer who is in the middle of a nasty divorce. His soon-to-be ex-wife, Liza Schaffer (played by Silverman's real-life wife Jennifer Finnigan) points out that Walter sneezes when he's lying and Walter has been sneezing a LOT! As things reach a boiling point between the two, Walter lets out one last sneeze which causes his stomach to split open and his guts to fall out. I really wish I could've taken a picture of my mom when this happened, She hasn't been this horrified by a 9-1-1 show since Owen Strand decided to perform CPR on a man frozen solid by his cryotherapy chamber.

This whole scene is mostly played for laughs even though Walter has been eviscerated. After last episode's gut-wrenching accident involving Denny Wilson, it was nice to have a low stakes emergency. Also, it was good to see Jonathan Silverman. I love when they bring veteran actors in to have them perform these small roles. It's one of the reasons I like Ryan Murphy shows so much. He always pays homage to the legends. Oh, and Walter is okay. Even though he spilled his guts, he's still a creep! You made the right decision, Liza!

Episode MVP?

This was a tough one. None of our main characters did anything particularly outstanding this week. This episode is giving filler but I still enjoyed it. However, since I do need to pick someone to be this week's MVP, I'm going to choose everyone's favorite dispatcher - Josh Russo. Josh mostly serves as comic relief in this series but I thought what he had to say to Buck was particularly noteworthy. As someone who is part of the pre-Glee world. I relate so hard to what people like Josh and Tommy have gone through as gay men. I graduated in the early-2000s and even though life was much improved for LGBTQ+ people than let's say the 70s, 80s, and 90s, I still didn't feel comfortable coming out until my late-20's. Buck's coming out was so simple and much of that is due in part to the queer people that came before him. I'm sure someone like Josh had a difficult time prior to coming out and Tommy went as far as getting into a serious relationship with a woman before he finally made the decision to come out. Had the end of this episode gone a lot differently, I think Josh's monologue would be even better. I also love that he called Buck in instead of calling him out. I wish we got more scenes with Josh and Buck because as of right now they are the only two queer male characters on the show.

BuckTommy Corner

I've been dreading writing this part of the reaction mostly because it might be the last BuckTommy Corner we ever get. A lot of fellow shippers online seem to think that we may see Buck and Tommy reunite but the ending of this episode has me convinced that we aren't getting the BuckTommy endgame many of you have been asking for since the two first touched lips. Anyway, I'm getting ahead of myself again.

After last episode's stellar development of Buck and Tommy's relationship, this episode's writer decided to burn it all down. Our first scene between Buck and Tommy finds them back where it all began. It's their six-month anniversary and Tommy has gotten Buck basketball tickets. Things seem to be going swimmingly between the two of them until some hot blonde comes over and asks Buck to take a picture of her and her friends. Buck seems very awkward by the situation but Tommy assures him it's okay for him to find other women attractive. Whew! Crisis averted! I was so sure this was going to be the conflict of the episode.

Then we get Tommy admitting to Buck that he is a Kinsey scale six which means he's g-g-gay ... even though once upon a time he was engaged to a 9-1-1 dispatcher with the most amazing hair. Yes, folks, Tommy Kinard was engaged to Abby Clark. Tommy mentions that after he ended things, Abby went on to date a himbo. Buck is completely shooketh by this revelation and goes to his sister for advice. This is where we get the fantastic monologue from Josh. Buck decides to come clean to Tommy and figures that this changes nothing about their relationship.

Tommy apologizes for calling Buck a himbo and the latter asks Tommy to move in with him. Then everything goes to absolute shit. Tommy spouts some bullshit about being Buck's first (male) relationship but he will not be his last. Tommy says he doesn't want to get his heart broken again and then throws up the deuces to a very confused Buck. I'm sorry, y'all! What in the absolute hell just happened! I don't know who that man was. I know he looked like Lou Ferrigno Jr. playing Tommy Kinard but it's like some alien took over Tommy's body during this scene. This is not the same man we have gotten to know over the few seasons. Yes, Tommy did have some reservations about getting into a relationship with Buck so soon after his coming out but they squashed all of that way back in 7x05. Since then, these two have been building something amazing only to have it blown up so unceremoniously at the end of this episode.

Now, as I mentioned prior, the ending to this episode was spoiled. After learning about the breakup, I immediately went to the BuckTommy Reddit and learned that others were as similarly confused as I was. To make matters worse, it appears that Lou Ferrigno Jr, is as equally flummoxed by the decision to end things as the viewers, which is not a good look for the show. Why give us all that development in "Masks" only for Tommy to exit stage left. Thankfully, Lou announced that he will be returning to S.W.A.T. so I'm comforted that I will get to see him again in a skin-tight black T-shirt. One thing I will say about Lou is the man stays working. Check out his IMDb. He may not be the series lead but he stays working and he will continue to work because he seems to be an extremely competent and professional actor.

The end of this episode left a bad taste in my mouth and I'm not just saying that because of the BuckTommy breakup. I've somewhat suspected that things have not been good with this show for a very long time but as long as I got scenes with Buck and Tommy, I was willing to keep going. This show is in its eighth season and we keep putting these characters through the same paces. Eddie's still trying to figure out how to be a good dad to Christopher seven seasons later. Maybe the show is getting a bit stale? I dunno. This episode just felt less fun for some reason. Perhaps I need to watch it again.

With that said, I will continue to watch 9-1-1 because I do love the characters on this show and the actors that play them. Oh, and by the way, please do not give Lou or Oliver any hate for simply playing what was written for them. Also, a lot of you are upset with Oliver and calling him biphobic. Now, do I think he said some problematic things in the last interview he did? Yes. Do I think he needs to be nailed to the cross for it? Absolutely not! I think we as viewers and members of the LGBTQ+ community need to take a page out of the Book of Josh and start calling people in instead of calling people out. We are very reactionary people and I totally get it. Being part of a marginalized group (or two, or three) especially here in America is rough and we find ways to protect ourselves to prevent harm from being inflicted on us. With that said, I believe it is quite possible to take an ally to task without potentially alienating them. As an elder, millennial gay, I think that's something we can all get better at! Until next time ...

#abc 911 #911 abc #athena grant #bobby nash #eddie diaz #evan buckley #hen wilson #howard chimney han #maddie buckley #tommy kinard #blw reactions #911 reactions #bucktommy #911 8x06

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der-musketmainn · 15 hours ago

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// (note. this entire message is out of character)

hello, jerryiothy. sorry for such a late response to your messages but i wanted to clear things up for the rest of the server (i got appointed speaker)

i wanna apologize for ignoring your messages. we weren't trying to exclude you or push you away for no reason at all. the reason for this is because this "whitenight boss fight" is a really big event for parody tumblr, and we didn't know what to do when you jumped in without warning. everybody else here has already notified one or most of us who they are (oc roleplay, canon character, etc.) and a basic synopsis of what they do to the people who don't know much about them (the project moon universe is a big place, not all of us know everything about it /silly).

if you could give us a summary of what this account is for and who you're roleplaying, we'd be more than happy to bring you into this! we're fighting literal god anyways- the more hands on deck the better

again, sorry for ignoring your last post like that. we didn't know what to do and didn't think through our decision well enough, and that's completely our fault.

ps. we got a discord server where we plan our reblogs in more detail, so if you want an invite lmk and i'll send you the link

- - - - - - -<THE END?>- - - - - -

(The darkness is still present. Nothing can be seen other then the ones close and the swirl of the dance of the purple flames. But something is wrong. A voice ecoes throught the darkness. Raspy and Hatefull.)

4D6572637920497320546F2050726F6C6F6E6720537566666572696E672E

- - <BROKEN PROMISE> - -

". . .HERETIC. I HAVE SEEN THE SAME TALE UNFOLD. BEFORE MY OWN EYES. DIFFERENT CIRCUMSTANCES. YET THE SAME RESULT. A STORY WERE THOSE WHO PERCEVERED GOT ONLY MORE SUFFERING TO COME ATTONE. THOSE WHO COULDN'T ACCEPT FATE ENDED BY CHANGING IT. AND BY DOING SO. BRINGING EONS UPON EONS OF PAIN. HAVE YOU HEARD SUCH TALE?"

@camellia-office @solemnly-lament @der-musketmainn @judgement-birds-scale @liu-after-hours-ss2 @tomatoing-it-up

#// SORRY FOR THE YAPPENING I HAD A LOT OF STUFF TO SAY

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admirationandromantics · 2 days ago

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Old story of mine, but I deleted my last Tumblr account, so here it is again!! This is a collage au!

Here we go again

The party hadn’t started yet. The only ones in the house so far were me, Jesse, and Dina. Dina hadn’t even begun to get ready, only stressing about where the bowls should stand, and what ornaments to put under the sink so that they wouldn't break. She was the host after all.

“Just go and get ready,” I urge her, searching for bowls in her cabinets to put the food in. Drinks were already in the fridge, and people with common sense would also be bringing their own. I had labelled my flask of white wine with my name, just in case someone decided to steal some.

“Fine! Just put the vases in the lower cabinets in the kitchen, please” she asks, before hurrying to the bathroom to apply her makeup.

Soon, people began arriving, and we started playing drinking games, pointing at the one who`ve had the most sex, the one with the most exes, and on and on. In the middle of the game, the door opened again. Dina ran there, and we kept sitting in the living room. That’s when I heard the voice. Her voice. A cold shiver ran down my spine, and I pressed my lips together. If I knew she would come here, I would probably fake being sick, or lie about a college assignment. In the middle of my slightly panicked state a new question comes;

“Who is the worst at managing alcohol?”. Everyone raises their fingers at me.

“The hell do you mean? Several of you can handle less than me”.

“Maybe, but you only get drunk on wine, and when you first do drink, you never stop. I`ve seen you being hungover for days” Jesse chuckles, and the others also start laughing.

“It’s true honey”. I look up to find Ellie leaning against the doorframe to the living room, looking down at me. I roll my eyes, and scoff.

“Fine, I'll show you guys that I’m not just some fancy person who enjoys only drinking things that actually taste good” I firmly state, as I pick up two filled shot glasses, and down them both in fast manoeuvre. Everybody cheers, and I can hear Jesse say something about the other part he said, but I don’t listen. Ellie lifts her eyebrows surprisingly as she watches me, and opens her mouth slightly. She soon sits down, joining the circle. I was already drunk, and this was not going to make it better.

Ellie was, simply put, a bitch the first time we met. She was super cocky and couldn’t stop talking about how good friends she and Dina were. Every time she was around me, she eyed me up and down, like she felt threatened by me. She even made a number of walking harshly into my shoulder several times, not even apologising after. This was the first year of college, and I had just gotten to know Dina as a roommate. Before she introduced us, she was completely sure we would get along well. Spoiler, we didn’t. After putting up with her behaviour for about two weeks, I exploded. Called her a bunch of names and shouted at her for being such a rude person (I may have been a little drunk too). I realised after that I may have gone over the line and waited outside her biology class to apologise. I had a shitty week, and I guess I took it out on her. She eyed me once more and swore she would make my life hell. She did. Making fun of me publicly, tripping me in the hallways and always tried to prove everything I said wrong. It was exhausting, and I started avoiding her at all costs.

***

We played through several games, and soon everybody was either laughing uncontrollably or laying on the ground talking about deep, philosophic stuff (As everybody does when they're drunk). Dina and I were discussing Buddhism, while sitting cross-legged on the floor.

“I just think that it makes so much sense that they refer to his awakening as a type of rebirth” I point out.

“That’s wrong, many people don’t see it like that.” I could feel her presence behind me before she started talking. I breathed in deeply, before letting it out again and turned around. Her body sat tense on the sofa, leaned a bit forward while her elbows rested on her knees.

“The scripts are badly translated, and it could be anything that we don’t yet understand”.

I smile and use a sarcastic tone while agreeing with her. “Of course, you`re totally right”

“Are you saying I am wrong?”

“Exactly what I didn’t say”.

“Fine”

“Yeah fine”

I struggle to hold my laugh, as I can sense how stiff she is. I hold my breath for too long and snort, looking away from her immediately. She gets up from her chair and her voice lowers.

“What was that?”

“Nothing” I calmly state, a smirk lurking as I lift the glass to my lips. She notices, and huffs. I`m loving this, and feeling as if I've taken some of my power back.

After a few hours I had to go to the bathroom. My body is swaying, and I understand that tomorrow is going to be horrible. Jesse is always right. I try to take my mind off it as I’m washing my hands and staring into the mirror. Suddenly, the door opens, and Ellie is standing there, her hand blocking the way out.

“What do you want?” I ask, trying to keep a stern tone, but ultimately failing.

“Do you think you would get away that easy, trying to one-up me?”

I freeze. Shit, I thought she would get over that since I got my win for the first time in a while. My voice fails me, and instead of commenting back, I stand there, mouth agape.

“What’s wrong? Lost your voice honey? But you were so open-mouthed a while ago”. She slowly walks forward, closing the door and locking it behind her. Her body is towering over mine, closing in on me till I feel her hot breath on my face. Alcohol and smoke. I back up as she puts her leg between mine and her hands against the wall. I blush.

“How drunk are you?” I ask, wondering if this is the best time for this.

“Not enough, you?”

“I'm fine,”

She starts pulling off her shirt, and I do the same. She’s flexing her arms, and I can’t help but admire her muscles. How her veins run down her arms and end by her long, slim fingers. Her hair is up halfway, but some strands are falling in her face. I meet her green eyes and decide this will be the last time. The last time we’ll do this.

“I bet you have missed me,” she smirks.

“I don’t care about you, and this will be the last time we do this” I state, already feeling hot for her. I may have said that the last time too, but this time I meant it.

“Keep telling yourself that honey”

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icewindandboringhorror · 2 months ago

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On average, what is the total MONTHLY amount that you spend on dining out*?

*(This doesn't only count going out to restaurants, but also stuff like picking up fast food to bring home, getting a coffee on the way to work, getting a premade sandwich from a grocery store deli during lunch, buying a quick snack from a convenience store or food cart whilst walking somewhere, ordering a pizza or any other food to be delivered to your home, etc.)

*(If you often dine out in groups/as a household: calculate and divide the costs so that you get a Per Person average. This is for YOU individually, NOT the total household/group costs)

(I'm sure polls similar to this have been made before (very common topic), I just haven't personally seen one that I can remember, so, I was curious to do my own! I was discussing this with a group of people today and it was very interesting to see how widely the number varied between individuals. :0c )

(Reblog for bigger sample size if you can, and feel free to explain your answer in tags if there's anything extra to add!)

#polls #tumblr polls #I'm mostly in the 0/1 - 25$ category. Maybe the rare month is a bit over $25 if there's something specific going on like birthday.#Which I'm NEVER eating in an actual restaurant (erm... covid... plus I just hate restaurant environments. i would rather pickup #the food and bring it home to a peaceful quiet environment that I control lol). But more typically like stopping by a grocery store deli #section or something. I don't have coffee that much. And I can't eat fast food much due to my health issues/diet restriction stuff #so if I'm out like coming back from an appointment and I start feeling really sick and weak. I know that a hamburger will just #blow up my system and cause nausea or something. So I try to pick the breadiest most #neutral looking turkey sandwich at the safeway deli to eat during the hour ride home or whatever lol #I actually kind of wish I could do stuff like get food more often vecause it would take the burden of cooking everything off of me #but.. alas... Money... and Health Things... T o T #I still wouldn't do it ALL the time but like... once a week instead of once a month or something.. or maybe turning into a coffee #person.. I do love drinks A LOT .. i am a drink person who will have 5 different drinks sipping on at all times #But i just have to make them all myself mostly lol #And I cant really have too much coffee since it will make me sick. so like.. teas and juice mostly #When I inevitably become a millionaire by never using social media never networking and only finishing one #sculpture every 5 months which I dont even post about or sell - then I shall... get more drinks..#I will somehow wean my body onto coffee and drink one a day solely for the ritual of it #Though even then... I would still probably just like.. buy the mateirals to make it at home or something #Like if you had a million dollars you could just buy a kitchen grade ice cream machine and other stuff to make your own milkshakes and #coffees and smoothies and bubble teas. Genuinely I think even if I were a BILLIONAIRE I would still look at playing likr $8 for a single #coffee and go .. uh.... I could just buy the equipment to make this and then save that money. PLUS. its in my house now so no need to #have to leave. I can make my own drinks in the comfort of home. .. ideal..#Like no matter how rich I ever got I would still have the lingering scroogey stinginess. like i am NOT paying for that. I will jus #make it myself. Especially if it was an Everyday thing. Anythign thats part of my routine I try to optimize and make as efficient as #possible... ANYWAY.. In an IDEAL world I would get treats. but probably not that much. as on a daily basis it would start to get #to me and I would just save up to buy kitchen machinery if I was rich lol

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cinnamon-flame · 11 months ago

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I was going through my art folder again and I saw one of the oldest wof stuff I've ever drawn (the fourth one ever I think?) and I redrew it! I love Turtle and I just took this excuse to draw him again

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stellar-solar-flare · 2 days ago

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This popped up on my dash and since you said that the conversation is open, I thought I would share my two cents, even if it might be stuff you are already familiar with and do yourself. I don't think I'm in the same fandoms as you but things mentioned here are observations made from multiple fandoms. Although I have been writing in AO3 instead of tumblr for the most part, my experience here comes from writing almost exclusively Steve Rogers longfics (mostly 50k+ words, 10+ chapters) from 2021. I don't claim to be super popular - I'm just reflecting on the relative differencies I have noticed in my engagement.

First of all, please don't quit a series just because it has been over a month. That's not a long time for an update at all! If you're writing fic, it's something you do on your free time without getting paid, so there's absolutely no reason at all to apologize life getting in the way.

From my own experience, I have to agree with the consistency and speed of updates being pretty big factors on engagement. I have noticed most reader engagement when I have been able to push out one or more update a week for multiple weeks straight. It helps people stay engaged with the story and invested when the story is fresh in their minds. But then again, I have gotten a lot of comments when coming back from a hiatus too so I think it's not the only factor at all.

Writing a lot, even if it's not the same series, helps keep one's fics on people's minds, and helps establish you as someone who writes X character (with a certain kind of characterization). I share sneak peeks sometimes, but that's just because I am too impatient to wait, they're not from 'marketing' standpoint. Personally I try to focus on writing and let the writing itself do the rest, but I do make a point to reply to comments and thank people, even if that is sometimes very delayed, so that they know I appreciate them. I also don't talk badly about my own writing, because as a reader, seeing someone do that can very easily turn me off from reading their story. (To be clear, I don't mean venting about the human frustrations of writing but publically calling your own stories bad etc.)

One of the big things for me as a reader and a writer is having multiple storylines going and having 'hooks' in the story, so to speak, so that the readers know what they're looking forward to when the story continues. Cliffhangers are the ultimate form of this but things like a character uncovering a partial piece of information that raises questions work too. I spend a lot of time establishing chemistry, both romantic and platonic, so that the readers have something to root for.

Then again, engagement always depends on the story. Some things do better than others. Sometimes I think a fic is going to be well-liked and it doesn't get much attention, sometimes a thing I thought was just pure self-indulgence gains a lot of reader interaction. Which brings me to my next point - I think that the writer's enjoyment bleeds through the story to readers; things that I have enjoyed writing the most are my most popular fics. And sometimes when I think I'll write some easy 'trope soup' that'll get a lot of interest, it's crickets. I think there's a lesson there for me.

I try to engage with people and be a part of fandom beyond writing. I read and comment other people's fics, I reblog stuff, I talk about everyday things and try to stay active even when I have no capacity to write (happens to us all). It helps foster a sense of community, and while it's not self-serving and I read and comment out of genuine enjoyment, ultimately being active in fandom and engaging with writing helps us all. It does feel like current fandom population doesn't comment as much as they used to, which is a shame. But I try to be the change I want to see in the world.

It's also worth noting that sometimes there are these 'lulls' in fandom where everyone is sort of quiet and busy with life, I assume. Like major holidays. They just happen, and the season will change again. Also, scheduled reblogs and comment replies help reach different sets of people.

Finally, focusing too much on the stats is a thing that for me is a road to madness that sucks all enjoyment out of writing. It is human to want engagement and look at the pretty numbers but again, what matters is the enjoyment you get from a story. Personally I have written a 250k longfic in a tiny niché that was commented regularly by one single person and occasionally by about five people. And I still love that fic to death and am so proud of myself for writing it.

That's my two cents, from my personal experience. As always, they should be taken with a grain of salt, and they might not be universally applicable. I wish you the best with writing and hope that the muses are kind to you.

Writers of multi-chapter fics:

How do you keep your readers engaged as the story gets longer?

I've heard from many, and seen it myself, that interaction drops significantly as the chapters accumulate (which I honestly do not even understand...hence why I'm asking this) but I've also seen a lot of writers who have quite lengthy fics where the engagement and excitement seems to stay consistent throughout.

They're receiving asks with comments and questions about the latest chapters, the reblogs are abundant compared to likes, and I'm just curious if there's anything anyone does differently to help maintain this other than just being a great writer 🤣 (which I'm realizing is probably the key thing and that there's nothing to do other than just be able to write a really good story which I'm clearly not haaaaa)

I've tried sharing snippets of upcoming chapters in the past and they've always fallen on their face, I've released chapter playlists, etc so I feel like from a "marketing" standpoint I've done what I can? And also as writers we shouldn't even have to work that hard to "promote" our fics considering people ask to be on taglists and what have you. (This is the site for sharing and ACTIVELY participating in fandom...)

It's been a struggle to keep myself motivated to finish up my series and I'm starting to wonder if there's even a point now that it's been over a month since I've updated (which I realize consistent updates are likely a huge factor as well 🙃 but, you know, life.)

Anyway. Thinking out loud here. Any advice/conversation is welcome! 💗

#stella muses on writing #stella interacts with humans

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withthewindinherfootsteps · 5 months ago

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So we know that Wei Wuxian's treatment after his death was horrible. Even if nothing could impact him directly, there was still neverending slander, hatred, misinformation, theft...

But, for a while after he died, the sects did try to impact him directly – namely, frequently trying to resummon his soul. And today I'll explore the possible reasons for this, their likelihoods, and why I'm so, so thankful that Wei Wuxian's soul managed to resist the summons. Because, spoiler alert (or, you know. maybe not)... none of them are good.

(Long meta ahead)

In my opinion, there are four likely motivations for this: confinement, coercion, torment, and potentially destruction.

Out of all of these, confinement is probably the most likely motivation, at least for most sects (Jins and Jiangs excluded, though it was likely what the Jin sect said their motivations were – but I'll get to them later). This one is the most simple – we know spirit-trapping pouches exist, and we know the sects also placed 120 stone beasts on the Burial Mounds to prevent Wei Wuxian's soul from escaping. Therefore, this seems to be the most likely motivation – and fortunately for Wei Wuxian, probably also the best case scenario, though it still certainly isn't a good one.

For the second, coercion – this is where the Jin sect come in (more specifically Jin Guangshan with the help of Jin Guangyao). Due to their wealth and resources, they're likely the sect who played the largest role in the soul-summoning rituals. We know what they're willing to do to try to gain power – keeping Wen Ning under the pretence he was burned to death and trying to control him with the nails, and working with and helping Xue Yang torture people to help him refine his demonic cultivation, in order to have the Yin hufu fixed. Along with working with many other cultivators, alongside Xue Yang – Jin Guangshan really, really wanted that seal.

And so, Jin GuangShan sought after all those who imitated Wei WuXian in cultivating the ghostly path and gathered them under his rule. He spent a great amount of money and resources and these people, ordering them to study and analyze the structure of the Tiger Seal in secrecy so that they could replicate and restore it. - Villainous Friends extra, EXR

(Note that working with these cultivators very likely happened after Wei Wuxian's soul had failed to be summoned, since this happens some time after Wei Wuxian's death, whereas the soul-summoning ceromonies presumably started happening very close to it.)

In the previous paragraph, he's also quoted as having 'lusted after' the Yin hufu, which we already knew but it's nice to have a direct quote as evidence.

Now, would Wei WuXian willingly work with the Jin sect in doing this? No. We know that, and, given Wei Wuxian's actions in his first life (refusing to hand over the Tally, not being afraid to stand up to the sects, etc), I’m pretty sure Jin Guangshan knows that, too:

He beat around the bush a couple of times, using all his skills, yet Wei WuXian didn’t give in no matter what, and it made him run into a bunch of obstacles. - Villainous Friends extra, EXR

So this could actually make things go two ways. One, I'm wrong and that wasn't actually part of the Jin sect's motivations, since they know they wouldn't be able to control him (and in that case, had they managed to summon him, I could imagine them putting him in a spirit-trapping pouch and doing something similar to what Jin Guangyao did to Nie Mingjue's head. Which, also, not good). Two, it was a part of their motivations, and they hoped to find a way around that. After all, there are other guidao users out there now, and Wei Wuxian would now be a gui*. Also, cultivators can obviously harm ghosts – see the very existence of Night Hunts, and I'd include Xue Yang's talisman-caused destruction of A-Qing as well (while he isn't a traditional cultivator, talismans can be used by everyone).

Now, would either of these methods actually work? I'm inclined to think not really (and I expand on the former method in a note below). Would that stop Jin Guangshan/Jin Guangyao/the cultivators they employ from trying? Especially considering Jin Guangshan's lust for power?

I'm inclined to think no, too.

For the third, look no further than Jiang Cheng's reputation of capturing and torturing demonic cultivators after Wei Wuxian's death, due to thinking they could be him. And this does happen – Jin Ling knows and talks about it, and there's not real motivation for him to negatively lie about someone he loves. Also, when they come across each other at Dafan Mountain, we're told this in Jiang Cheng's inner voice:

A moment ago, Jiang Cheng was certain that this person was Wei WuXian, and all of the blood in his body started to boil. Yet, now, Zidian was clearly telling him that he wasn’t. Zidian definitely wouldn’t deceive him or make a mistake, so he quickly calmed himself and thought, this doesn’t mean anything. I should first find an excuse to take him back and use every possible method to get information out of him. It’s impossible for him to not confess anything or give himself away. I’ve done things like this in the past anyways. - MDZS Chapter 10, EXR translation

This mainly shows that he's tortured people before, rather than that he's tortured people because he thinks they're Wei Wuxian, but this reason is confirmed by Jin Ling in Chapter 24. Of course, the reason is also mentioned in this chapter, and there are other moments in the chapter that illustrate my point better**, but they come from second-hand sources which I know are easier to deny. Do take note of Jiang Cheng's expression both times he comes across 'Mo Xuanyu' (after he suspects he's Wei Wuxian) in Book One***, though:

After a moment, the corners of Jiang Cheng’s lips pulled into a twisted smile. His left hand started to unconsciously stroke the ring [Zidian] again. He spoke softly, “… Well, well. So you’re back?” - Chapter 10, EXR Although his face had always been clouded, marked with arrogance and satire, it seemed as if every corner of it had come alive. It was difficult to determine whether it was vengeful wrath, fathomless hatred, or raving ecstasy. - Chapter 23, EXR

This does seem to line up with what people say his attitude to Wei Wuxian is – there doesn't seem to be any happiness at seeing him again at all. The only time a word that could suggest that ('ecstasy') is used, it's accompanied by 'raving', and considering the context and the other possibilities of his expression, it's... probably not due to happiness at being reunited.

So, considering 1) this, 2) his contribution to the Siege specifically intended to kill Wei Wuxian, and 3) that at the time of frequent soul-summoning Jiang Yanli's death would be even closer for him, I feel pretty confident in saying that yes, this is likely a motivation for the Jiang sect in trying to re-summon Wei Wuxian's soul after his death. And, as mentioned earlier, cultivators can harm ghosts (and we know Zidian is able to remove souls posessing a body from that body, and that Jiang Cheng used Zidian on 'Mo Xuanyu' in Chapter 10. If it wasn't able to restrain/harm ghosts, or other methods weren't able to, why would he risk Wei Wuxian's soul escaping?).

And finally, option four: destruction. We're heading into much more speculative territory here, so don't consider this on par with the first three. But consider this:

We know there are some spells, like Xue Yang's talisman used on A-Qing and the body-offering ritual, that can ruin the returning soul’s reincarnation cycle by destroying it. Therefore, soul destruction is possible.

The 'main'/supposed reason for summoning Wei Wuxian's soul back is to stop the "cultivation world, or even all of mortal land" from being "faced with the most insane damnation and revenge, sinking into nothing but chaos and despair" when Wei Wuxian inevitably returns. While, as mentioned above, I severely doubt this is the motivation for certain sects – and to me is likely a rumour which the Jins (again, especially Jin Guangsha) fanned the flames of to justify summoning Wei Wuxian back for their own purposes**** – there are other sects which would take it more seriously.

Although likely disrespectful, people already thought it served Wei Wuxian right to die without his body intact by the time of the second siege – something believed to negatively affect your reincarnation in your next life*****. This is only the logical next step, and I'm pretty sure the vast majority of people would believe that, again, it would serve Wei Wuxian right, or would at least lead to less harm of the world in the long run.

For these reasons, I could definitely see this as an option for some sects, especially the sects who consider themselves more 'righteous' (cough cough the Nies under Nie Mingjue cough cough). After all, evil is evil and good is good, and the evil deserve what's coming to them. And what better way to prevent that than from preventing his soul from returning at all? So for the Nie sect – and likely some of the smaller sects involved in the Siege, since among them, additudes probably vary – yes, I do think it could be a motivation.

I’m not as sure about the Lans being willing to go this far, and that’s largely for two reasons. One, Lan Wangji’s presence and his relationship to Lan Xichen, who does (not always, but he does) let this affect how he treats Wei Wuxian. An example of this is that, when Wei Wuxian's return is made public, Lan Xichen does let him hide and shelter at the Cloud Recesses instead of trying to pursue him, likely majorly due to Lan Wangji. I'd argue that the aftermath of the Nightless City also acts as an example of this, although it definitely isn't perfect. But though he, Lan Qiren and the 33 elders do come to find Lan Wangji and do not let him continue to shelter Wei Wuxian (after they see Lan Wangji's feelings), Lan Xichen doesn't use this opportunity to kill/capture Wei Wuxian, despite Lan Wangji being in a worse condition due to having fought 33 elders, Wei Wuxian being catatonic, and Lan Qiren likely supporting this outcome (especially considering he was the one who led the Lan sect in the Siege – chapter 68, Wei Wuxian's POV). And he did let Lan Wangji take Wei Wuxian back to the Burial Mounds after:

After he went out of his way to send you back to Burial Mound and returned in such low spirits to receive his punishment, how long he kneeled before the Wall of Rules! - Chapter 99, EXR

Again, this was right after the Nightless City massacre – there isn't any goodwill towards Wei Wuxian at this point in time.

Of course, the Lan sect did participate in the siege after Lan Xichen knew of Lan Wangji's feelings towards Wei Wuxian, which Lan Xichen was no doubt a part of (although Lan Qiren lead the Lan sect in the siege, Lan XIchen had to have at least known/given his support, if not participated.) And it should be considered that Lan Xichen letting Wei Wuxian shelter at the Cloud Recesses was after Wei Wuxian had been back for a while, and had not caused the downfall of the Cultivation World, like many suspected he would after his death. And of course, as stated previously, his handling of the aftermath of Nightless City wasn't perfect either (though please note that his main motive here was to protect Lan Wangji from being potentially executed, rather than anything about Wei Wuxian himself). So caring about Lan Wangji doesn't mean he won't harm Wei Wuxian. But I do think he could find bringing Wei Wuxian's soul back to completely destroy it a bit excessive. There is, though, the chance that the elders of the Lan Sect would react to this differently, and of course they would have a sway on both Lan Xichen and the Lan sect as well.

The second reason is smaller, but there seems to be more focus in the Lan sect than in others when it comes to letting ghosts rest peacefully/helping them move on. And that could definitely lead to more resistance to the idea of summoning a soul back to destroy it as well, which could especially impact the elders. So I'd assume that the Lan sect would be the most likely sect to summon Wei Wuxian's soul back just for confinement, or just for some way of making sure any resentment is disippated, his spirit moves on, and he can't cause more harm to the world (eg via Inquiry)******. Not that he would or does as a ghost or as a reborn person, but that's unfortunately not relevant to this.

But yes, as a motivation for the Nie Mingjue-led Nie sect? Absolutely.

So, these are the main motives I suspect to be behind the attempted summoning of Wei Wuxian's soul after his death (and if I've missed any, please let me know – I'd love to have a discussion). And, of course, none of them lead to anywhere good. Because of course it wasn’t enough to besiege Wei Wuxian, murder the 50 non-combatants he was responsible for (and throwing them into the blood pit as a mark of disrespect because why not?), and lead to his death via him getting torn apart. It wasn’t enough to steal all his inventions, and use them commonly while still slandering him with no reprieve – or to steal his notes and give them to people like Xue Yang to study (Villainous Friends, again) and to use for their own, extremely extremely harmful, purposes. Of course, the cultivation world has to try to harm Wei Wuxian after death as well ((:

We don't know whether Wei Wuxian rejecting the summoning ceremonies was conscious or unconscious, but if it was the former, these are very likely reasons he refused to return in this way. If it was unconscious – for example, maybe during the frequent soul-summons his soul was in a weakened state due to him dying from a backlash of resentful energy and getting torn apart, and it healed over time but not before the soul-summoning rituals stopped – well, I can only be thankful.

Finally, let me leave you on the thought that – although it may well have happened since we don't spend much time in the immediate aftermath of the Sunshot campaign – there isn't even any textual mention of this happening to Wen Ruohan. Who, while not being a guidao user, was still very dangerous, still an extremely powerful cultivator, and still had a lot of reason to feel resentment. So.

:')

Thank you for reading!

*Considering what we see of how Wei Wuxian's guidao functions – redirecting the ghosts'/corpses' resentment into doing something they'd want to do, eg attacking people, and directing it towards a target – I'm not sure using it to force a spirit to do something 1) extremely specific, and 2) explicitly against their will would actually work. Iirc the closest thing we get to this in text is Wei Wuxian using the corpses of Wens to attack other Wens in the Sunshot Campaign, but he's still just directing their resentment to a target of his choice, and fierce corpses do tend to be on the less concious side of things (hence why Wei Wuxian had to awaken Wen Ning's consciousness). Considering how Wen Ning attacks Wei Wuxian and the Burial Mound Wens before his consciousness had fully awoken, I... really don't think those fierce corpses were able to differentiate (or didn't care).

Meanwhile, ghosts seem to be a bit more in control of themselves – see A-Qing, and Wei Wuxian's own descriptions of his ghost self.

That, alongside ghost!Wei Wuxian being able to resist his soul-summoning and the fact that pretty much all of the new guidao users are a lot weaker than he was, does make me think that this this wouldn't work. I do wonder about Xue Yang, since his methods are pretty different as well, but he's more of a modao user than a guidao user (he controls living corpses rather than dead people) and I don't think you can insert physical nails into ghosts?? Though if he was specifically instructed to figure out some way to control ghost!Wei Wuxian (who's probably kept in a spirit-trapping pouch in this scenario), he might be able to do something at least. Though also he was also struggling to piece Xiao Xingchen's ghost soul back together, so he may struggle with those areas?

Well, whatever the potential outcome, I'm so so happy once again that Wei Wuxian's soul managed to resist the soul-summonings...

**Mainly this:

Everyone in the cultivation world knew that the young leader of the Jiang Clan watched out for Wei WuXian in an almost crazed manner. He would rather catch the wrong person than let go of any possibility, and took anyone who seemed like they held the soul of Wei WuXian away to the YunmengJiang Sect, inflicting severe torture on his victim. If he wanted to take someone back, the opposition would surely lose half of their life. - Chapter 10, EXR

But I have heard people say 'you can't prove that it's just more rumours' before, and I wanted my evidence to be as watertight as possible.

(And, off-topic... isn't it really sad how Jiang Cheng, in the present day, is described as young? Because, for a clan leader, he is. And another thing he is, is close in age to Wei Wuxian – who was killed 13 whole years prior :') )

***And do note that the only other time they run into each other before Wei Wuxian's identity is revealed to the world apart from this is their brief interaction at Jinlintai, where he can't just act however he wants. The next time they run into each other after it, Jiang Cheng is literally taking part in another siege against him, and still extremely hostile ("surrounded by hostile energy, face insidious, staring straight at him" – from EXR chapter 60). Then he loses his spiritual powers and can't do anything. By the time he regains his powers, Wei Wuxian, Lan Wangji and the Wen remnants' corpses have saved everyone during the Second Siege, and though public opinion hasn't properly shifted quite yet, it will soon after Sisi and Bicao tell the story of Jin Guangyao, and voila, a new scapegoat (do note that he doesn't completely bar Wei Wuxian from entering Lotus Pier after the Second Siege, though). Plus, throughout it all, Lan Wangji is still constantly present, which makes it hard for Jiang Cheng to really do anything. And then he's finally faced with the Golden Core reveal, which does alter his motivations towards Wei Wuxian (obviously the resentment is still there – read chapter 102 – but it's also mixed with other complex emotions, and he seems to start being able to move away from that a little in Chapter 103). I still definitely wouldn't describe Jiang Cheng's attitude towards him as positive, but it isn't at the point it was at the start of the novel (eg Chapter 10).

But even if his attitude does change, or would for whatever other reason apart from the reveal, that still doesn't change an initial motivation so isn't relevant to this meta. We know his intentions at the start.

****It's also possible they may have originated it, but I think WWX's reputation was bad enough for it to form naturally. Though you can trace a major part of that back to them, too.

*****That belief isn't outright stated in MDZS, but the fact people are specifically talking about the status of WWX's body in the aftermath of his death suggests that this belief does have some grounding in the MDZS universe, at least? And we know MXTX has included it in TGCF (though that doesn't mean it's definitely in MDZS), so she has used it in her works. If this isn't the case in the MDZS universe I am sorry (although that could also mean there's less importance placed on not disturbing the reincarnation cycle in the world of MDZS...? Which would work towards my original argument) – I don't want to spread misinformation that something is definitely true, I just think there's evidence to suggest it is true, which isn't the same thing.

******Again, I think this would depend on who ends up having more influence over who in the Lan sect. After all, normal resentful spirits only do what they do because of their resentment in death, whereas Wei Wuxian is 'dangerous' because of who everyone thinks he was in life – so him being reborn naturally could also 'cause a lot of harm to the world' during the time period this version of him would live in, unlike the resentful ghosts they appease. This could definitely lead to many advocating for confinement, I think.

#writing this takes me back to my nie huaisang one #'detective metas' i'd call both of them #as opposed to analysis of characters or themes #it may be less 'meaningful' but it's still fun to explore and speculate within a world you love #...albeit maybe not for this one because. mdzs jianghu when i get my hands on you-#also i fully acknowledge i may be wrong #but again i'd love to have discussions about these! debates and knowledge exchange are what leads to better understanding of source materia #which is a major goal of mine in writing these #mdzs meta #my meta #wei wuxian #mdzs cultivation world #long post #mo dao zu shi #gdc #grandmaster of demonic cultivation #魔道祖师 #mxtx #detective meta #<– if i ever make this a tag #also i feel like you could write a fic (angsty or not so angsty depending on where you go with it) where the lan sect somehow-#-summons ghost!wwx back (not sure how bc the jin and jiang sects would probably want 'custody' of him more - and i don't think summoning-#-rituals are done by just one sect at a time? but imagine it happens) and idk he's kept in a spirit-trapping pouch or sth #lwj probably isn't told bc of what happened after nightless city - elders can't really trust him in matters to do with wwx #but maybe lxc feels bad for him or sth (especially bc he's mourning him and stuff + what happened after he found out wwx was dead)#and tells him and maybe brings wwx's soul to him for a bit so wwx can respond to inquiry #and they talk and obv. wwx is NOT happy with the situation (both rn and yk bc of the VERY RECENT SIEGE)#but but but! the thing that would stop this being completely depressing is that LWJ HAS A-YUAN SO WWX FINDS OUT HE SURVIVED #also lwj's injuries would likely come up at SOME point which would lead to wwx finding out abt nightless city afermath #AA NOO THE TAGS WENT ON FOR SO MUCH LONGER BUT I GUESS TUMBLR DOESN'T ALLOW SO MANY i'll have to make another post...

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