#the fact that these have so little screentime together is a crime

[mfshipbracket]

as a permanent resident of the star wars fandom and also someone who's a ben solo fan but a reylo disliker, i feel like i can add a little bit of clarity to "why hate reylo":

i think a main reason people dislike reylo has a lot to do with the fact that after the force awakens, the other "main" characters of that trilogy (finn and poe specifically, the two non-white men) were written to the side in a sense, while kylo ren suddenly was at the forefront of the movies alongside rey. the fact that finn's whole premise - a force sensitive person who chose to stop being a stormtrooper - was basically ignored to further develop the turmoil of the villain, which pissed off a lot of people who already had an idea in their minds of rey and finn being together.

personally as someone who lost interest in the sequels with the last jedi (perceived luke skywalker characterization crimes are unforgivable to me) i vaguely enjoyed finnrey and much preferred finnpoe or finnreypoe (that hug during the rise of skywalker 🫶 it's canon to ME) but never really watched the movies for ships. i remember even coming out of the last jedi and thinking there was no way they were actually going to make reylo canon. it didn't feel like they had any chemistry then and it still doesn't feel that way now, and i just rewatched the rise of skywalker while at star wars celebration last month for some goddamn reason so i'm basically an expert (that is a joke)

i very clearly remember watching the kiss scene in rise of skywalker and instantly bursting into laughter. it didn't feel earned, it didn't even feel relevant. it felt like they kissed because it said so in the script. that's just my own opinion, clearly other people think otherwise because there is still a dedicated reylo fan base even today, good for them! but i actually was genuinely shocked they went that direction. after shafting john boyega and oscar isaac in order to give the white leads more screentime, the whole concept of reylo left a bad taste in my mouth, even though i normally go crazy over enemies to lovers, the more crimes against each other the better, etc etc etc (i am also a danmei fan).

anyways if you like the concept of reylo but hate the execution go read star wars the high republic!!! hashtag axelgella nation. there are literally ten of us

i love u. thank you for the information and also recommendation LOL… i don’t have much to add onto this . again others are welcome to add on <3 we super appreciate yours & others’ thoughtful responses about this

[utilitycaster]

I believe you mentioned seeing Love Lies Bleeding - would love to hear your thoughts on it if you have any (and good luck with the car troubles).

It's GREAT. Everyone who is not averse to grievous bodily harm shown on screen go see it. I am not like...terribly up on film just generally; I grew up in a house that limited TV screentime with parents who hate movie theaters so there is a weird cross section of movies I know that is immensely idiosyncratic since I just don't really have a movie-going habit. Also since getting into CR in 2018 it's like. well I don't really have two hours to kill watching movies; I watch 4+ hours of stuff a week and that's plenty. So I cannot speak to things like cinematography, though it did feel well-put together and attractive to look at and all that.

I think the story is solid - nothing groundbreaking except for the fact that usually this is not a story told about queer women that (spoilers) ends with them free and together (more on this later) but it's well done as a neo-noir, the acting is fantastic, and it feels so wonderfully...big and small at the same time? Like, do not get me wrong, I enjoy a blockbuster, but when I think back to the movies I've liked as of late*, Honor Among Thieves is the only one that takes place over a sprawling journey. I guess Barbie, debatably. Like, Love Lies Bleeding is almost entirely in a small town in New Mexico with a brief portion in Vegas or in the immediate surroundings. We are not jetsetting or using green screens. The majority of the film is in a handful of places, the core cast is like 6 people with two significant supporting players. I love this. As someone who leans more towards longer form fiction in general it's just really nice to have something that says "we have under two hours and we are going to embrace having under two hours and tell a story that fucking FITS in under two hours instead of just giving you some weird shard of a Cinematic Universe."

Re the queer women: thank GOD for casting queer women as queer women and probably more importantly having queer women doing things like writing and directing. The sex scenes are great and the relationship feels...I can't say I have the experience of being one of the only queer women in a small town in the late 80s and low-key detesting the one other woman but this all feels so much like. Of course Lou responds like this! This is the first new and fortuitous thing that has happened in her life! U-Haul jokes aside like yeah this is her big chance! It's both their big chances! And honestly until pretty late in the film, because I went in with little info other than "Kristen Stewart and Katy O'Brien bodybuilder lesbian romance crime drama" I expected it to end with one of them dead and the thing is the story works either way, and that feels really great to me, a tragedy enjoyer but also a comedy enjoyer.

Also I love pitch-black humor and this absolutely has that, and I enjoy magical realism when done very sparingly and this is precisely the right amount (if you assume it's magical realism, which I do; I also enjoy ambiguity). Anyway go see a fucked up lesbian and her fucked up bi girlfriend get entangled by ambition, righteous anger, vengeance, limited opportunity, and Ed Harris's skullet and bug obsession.

Finally, a personal anecdote: I saw this at the Alamo Drafthouse and as you may know they do various event screenings. They are showing Twilight: Eclipse for the total solar eclipse. It is HILARIOUS to see a trailer for Twilight: Eclipse (ft. young Kristen Stewart as personality-less girl in love triangle with two guys) before Love Lies Bleeding. talk about a glow-up. Absolutely wild to me that Stewart and Pattinson both ended up as genuinely talented actors with a taste for the unhinged given their breakthrough was Twilight.

[ottokallenhonkai3rd]

⚜ 𝒜𝓇ℊ𝓊𝒾𝓃ℊ 𝒶ℊ𝒶𝒾𝓃𝓈𝓉 𝒜𝓃𝓉𝒾𝓈 ⚜

Since I've already seen a lot of arguments against OttoKallen, I thought I'd create a list of hate arguments and counter-arguments.

---------------------------------------------------- 1. Otto doesn´t love Kallen or just as friend/platonic. To qoute an ingame text: The girl he had always loved was sentenced to death. He went by lenght to try to save her, and was rejected when reluctantly turning to his distanced father, which was his last resort. To qoute the "Honkai Chronicvles - Otto Apocalypse" official video: (1) When he heard Kallen was in danger in Yae Village, he immediately had Oath of Judah delivered, but not the response letter that spoke his loving heart. (2) Losing the love of his life paintet Ottos world grey again. (3) The only way to mend it was to revive the love of his life and the holy maid of the people, Kallen Kaslana. 2. Kallen will hate him for his crimes, after he revived her:

This screenshots showing that even after his experiments on dying patients and with the black box, Kallen doesn't hate him. Rather, she wonders how she could have done better. She knows how he is and still believes in him. This was underlined in "Second erruption" too, where she can be seen in the background and believes in Otto's goodness. Apart from the fact that she is not revived, but Otto creates a second timeline in which she lives. Neither Kallen nor Otto from this timeline can know of his crimes. So the statement is redundant. 3. Kallen never wanted to be revived: If you go by the "St. Freya High" webcomic, then yes. There it is portrayed that Kallen has already finished with her life, because Sakura is also dead. However, this statement does not match the in-game content. In that it is stated that Kallen rather wanted to die then to become the Overseer's pawn. When Otto tells her that he will revive her at all costs, she just laughs and says "Thanks my gifted Inventor". So if you go by the game, then no. But in the end she wasn't revived, she lives in a different timeline. 3. Otto moves on from her: I don't know how anyone would think that his feelings for her will ever change. If that were the case, he would never have followed his plan through to the end. Besides, that would have been mentioned somewhere at some point. Even if Kallen KNEW what crimes he had committed, he would still love her. If it were her, he would have fallen out of love when Kallen knew what he was doing with the dying patients. 4. OttoKallen has no content (in contrast to SakuKallen) to prove they´re canon/Kallen had feelings for Otto: In the game, Kallen says to Otto "in another world..." when they talk about a wedding. In "Thus spoke Apocalypse" they are seen cuddling together and holding hands. In Su's bubble universe, the two are married. In Gun Girls Z, they are also married. "Regression" is clearly a song written for the two of them. In "Honkai Kimdom" they are married with Theresa as their Grandchild. In "Thus spoke Apocalypse" you see two pregnant stars that are supposed to represent Otto and Kallen. Of course, this content cannot compete with SakuKallen content. But you should also look at it a little differently. 1. Kallen and Otto didn't have time to develop a romantic relationship. Many anime couples know the problem of switching from a friendship to a relationship. Among others Eren and Mikasa from Attack on Titan. There were also feelings on Kallen's side, otherwise she wouldn't have told him that she would have liked to have married him in another world. 2. Otto isn't a playable character, and he didn't have enough screentime with Kallen to make much footage out of it. Unlike Sakura. 3. Most of this is either excessive fan service or takes place in a stigma world where Kallen isn't even present. So how much of that is actual content? For a love that didn't happen because of Kallen's death, but where it's obvious that both had feelings for each other, the two have enough content.

5. The fact that Kallen married Otto in GGZ is secondary, because it's not set in the main timeline and Kallen had to marry Otto to survive: If Kallen chooses death to avoid ending up a pawn of Schicksal, she certainly won't change her mind in another timeline. As far as I know, the two escaped from Schicksal. And it doesn't matter in which timeline it takes place, because Kallen's feelings don't change just because the timeline isn´t the main one. She said she would like to marry Otto if circumstances were different. And she kept her promise. Also, she looks pretty happy in the picture. 6. Kallen is a lesbian: No. Kallen is bisexual. Otherwise she would not have married Otto in GGZ and had a child with him. Mihoyo has never confirmed that Kallen is purely a lesbian. 7. The official Mihoyo Pop-Quiz in the Chibi spring Chat Lobby (2021) stated, that Kallens true love is Sakura and not Otto:

The last modification date for "St Freya High" and "Escape from Nagazora" was in the half year of 2020. The quiz is from 2021. As it is a New Year's quiz I think it will have taken place in January. So the quiz question relates to the webcomics. In this case, Kallen's true love is Sakura. That's correct. But the video for "Thus spoke Apocalypse" and "Honkai Chronicles - Otto Apocalypse" were only released after 2021. The game content dealing with the wedding with Kallen and the wedding in Gun Girls Z are also not that old. And the webcomics on which the answer to this quiz question is based have been taken off the page except for two chapters. Nothing can be proven with this quiz.

8. Kallen wanted to rather die, then to marry Otto / Kallen rejected Otto: This claim is based on the fact that Kallen rejected Otto's marriage proposal.  Basically they try to mix the statement in St. Freya High that Kallen doesn't want to live anymore because of Sakura's death with the in-game statement *see picture*, so that Kallen would rather die than marry Otto. But that's wrong if you read the in-game teyt properly. Anyone who still doesn't get the point that Kallen basically rejected the Overseer because she doesn't want to be exploited by him and Otto said "If it weren't for your father (the Overseer), I would like to marry you.", you definitely can't read or the brain of a unicellular organism. Here the screenshot. See youself:

Original Post

[coldflasher]

you know i have to ask about coldwest for the ship thing

hmmm yeah, this one isn't for me really :/ not my cup of tea

jokes, can you imagine haha. i am the captain of coldwest. yo ho ho and a bottle of why-the-fuck-didn't-they-get-more-screentime

What made you ship it?

Honestly I had never even thought about shipping them until Redhead's fic "Needs Must, As the Devil Drives" got me super into Coldwestallen, and from there I spent a lot more time thinking about the Coldwest side of that dynamic and what a fun and complicated relationship that would be... then the rest, ngl, was largely built from my own headcanons and bits of dozens of fics that hopefully, one day, I will actually finish...

2. What are your favorite things about the ship?

So many things!! I think the first thing that comes to mind is that I feel like Coldwest offers a great opportunity to put Iris out there in the field. The show kind of tends to keep Iris out of the action a lot. Like she is a hugely important member of the team, obviously, but she's generally sitting in S.T.A.R Labs running tech support, and aside from occasionally getting temporary speed powers or occasionally aiming a gun at a threat, she often takes a back seat to the action. Barry in particular has this tendency to want to get Iris as far away from a fight as possible, and while I get it, I love seeing Iris kick ass. We know she can shoot, throw a punch, whatever, but she rarely gets the opportunity to get out there as much, and whenever she does, it's panic button time and she gets whisked to safety. I feel like Len, with his tendency to get into trouble, his love of adrenaline and a fight, and the thrill he clearly gets while fighting, would love to have Iris on his side in that kind of situation, and he wouldn't hesitate to get her involved. He'd actually encourage it, if anything. Which also provides fun conflict with Joe, who would already be seething that this criminal is dating his daughter, but now he's encouraging her to put her life at risk and possibly commit crimes? Oh, the drama >:) I love writing Coldwest team-ups where Iris gets to use her skills as a reporter while Len uses his skills as a thief, and they kind of play off one another... with lots of back and forth arguing and snark, of course.

I also personally like that, in my view, Iris would have a better handle on Len than anyone else. Like he's more willing to let her boss him around than he would be with another partner. As mentioned, she doesn't take his shit, she's not as amused by him and she will tell him to cut the crap if he's being a dick. In contrast, though, I also feel like he'd be softer than her than he would with another partner. Sure, he'll pull her pigtails and make mean, sly comments, he wouldn't be Len if he didn't... but he also admires and respects her, he's a fan of her work, and I think that Iris is just such a kind and gentle person that I think being around her would soften him. He'd never admit it, but in my head, he's so gone for her, and while it might take a while for him to let his guard down, if you'll excuse the terrible ice pun, he'd melt for her. Like. That small smile he gives to show he's proud of his sister---that kind of moment, all this affection and pride that he keeps private and only lets out when no one's looking, but when they're alone, he lets her see it. Just a little. Sigh.

Also, I kind of like that it's such unchartered territory wrt canon. Like GOD my kingdom for more coldwest scenes, but also, the fact that we get to see so little of them together on screen means that there is so much to explore there, and canon cannot tell me no (like it would stop me anyway haha). It really does give me free reign to think about how they would interact and what kind of scenarios they'd get involved in.

Oh yeah, and I also think they're both extremely hot and I wanna see them bang seven ways to Sunday, so there's that

3. Is there an unpopular opinion you have on your ship?

I don't really know. It's such a small ship, I don't really know what opinions are out there haha. Hm... I guess maybe that I think Iris would call him babe. Cos generally Len is NOT a petname person and I think if anyone else tried to call him babe, he would make them regret it, but with Iris, he's like a cat being pet and secretly liking it but pretending not to... he's like "I'll allow it. Maybe." but secretly smug like yes. I am babe

Send me a ship and I'll answer three questions based on whether I ship it or not

[hamarhemmo]

Hello, I'd like to share some LGBTQ+ JoJo headcanons again.

This time the JoBros:

Robert Speedwagon: He is gay and this is a fact. He got kicked in the face and immediately fell in love. He literally devoted his whole life to Jonathan. I love him. Also I think in some translation/version Joseph comments something about his and Jonathan's suspicious relationship but I might just be imagining that.

Caesar Zeppeli: Just like Joseph, he is incredibly bisexual. Obviously likes women or at least enjoys flirting with them, but he very obviously has a crush on Joseph. This isn't even my Caejose propaganda, this is a fact. Also this is a stretch but Lisa Lisa said that he has commited "every crime short of murder". Do you know what was illegal in 1930s Italy? That's right: being queer. Case closed.

Noriaki Kakyoin: Not gonna lie dude, he got so little screentime that I actually have no idea. Like I don't know how you guys can make anything of his sexuality, he said almost nothing and interacted with almost no one.

Jean Pierre Polnareff: You know the phrase "He's bi but no one wants him"? That's Polnareff.

Okuyasu Nijimura: I feel like he's bi. Though that might just be Josuyasu brain speaking. Like he's a bit too close to Josuke for that to be entirely straight, but also if he is straight, I respect him for being so close with his friends.

Koichi Hirose: I think he's straight and trans (FtM). Like if he was attracted to men, there's no way that his relationship with Josuke and Okuyasu wouldn't be fruitier. He's the token straight friend. Also I'm definitely not projecting my transness into every short guy I see.

Guido Mista: He's definitely bisexual or pansexual. I actually have seriously no explanation, I can just tell from looking at him. I actually kind of feel like he wouldn't care about gender at all but he has way too strong bisexual vibes for me to call him anything else.

Bruno Bucciarati and Leone Abbacchio: I'm putting them together because they're a set in my mind. Like I just can't seperate them. Anyways they're both gay and that's a fact. I can't possibly imagine them dating anyone but each other.

Narancia Ghirga: He feels like a he/they to me. Maybe a cis dude who just uses those pronouns. I'm pretty sure he likes girls so maybe he's straight?

Ermes Costello: A lesbian. Or like lesbian who also like female aligned enbies, I don't know if there's a specific wird for that. I can totally see her dating Jolyne and F.F. so probably polyamorous too.

Foo Fighters: I feel like they're agender but also don't really care what people call them. They'd probably be fine with any pronouns. Also I feel like they're pan, like they're literally just some plankton in a human form, they probably don't even know what gender means. Probably also polyamorous for reasons mentioned previously.

Gyro Zeppeli: Continuing the Zeppeli tradition of being bisexual. I surprisingly don't have much to say about him despite him being like my favourite SBR character.

Yasuho Hirose: Again, I haven't read part 8 yet, but her outfit is in trans colours so you know what that means! She's trans and I don't take criticism.

[hello--goodbye]

The fact that Will and Lucas have so little screentime together is a crime

Like, look at them!!!

[damn-oh-dread]

Assorted Chapter 16 - 24 thoughts

GALAD IS A WHITECLOAK NOW!?!?!? I really like Galad as a character. Crazy that he does the right thing no matter what and decided that that included joining the white cloaks.🤡 Very interested to see if he ends up protecting his sister and her friends therefore kind of supporting the Aes Sedai, an organization he is now theologically against, or if he hands them in, betraying the trust of his family which also seems like a big thing for him. Which side of right will win out inside of himself?

Gawyn * rolls eyes * I liked him at the beginning but ever since the Tower coup incident I do not like him at all. He’s so annoying! And the way he thinks he’s right about everything? No thank you. He and Egwene better not end up together or I will commit a crime. He does not deserve Egwene.

I’m really liking how this book has given us a lot of different perspectives! It’s refreshing to see what other characters are up to!

Elayne, Thom is basically your step-dad. Please, I am begging you.

Finally, the Black Ajah are going to be scary and not just a totally useless group of 12 people! I’m excited to actually be afraid of them. Absolutely loving Moghedien!

Glad to get the confirmation that Gaebril is indeed Rahvin.

The mind control/compulsion weave is super unnerving from the perspective of someone under the compulsion. The fact Morgase has months and months of fake memories is terrifying!

I would read an entire book about Morgase though ngl.

LINI!!!! I need Lini and Nynaeve to meet so bad. When she said, when you get to my age all sayings are old sayings, I lost it. I would die for Lini.

MORGASE WAS GONNA MARRY THOM SSFDDFSGSDGGDS

Wildly invested in this Morgase-Gareth-Siuan side plot.

I kind of want Morgase and Gareth to meet up before Gareth and Siuan just because I very badly want to see their exes reunion.

Ngl I have no idea what is going on with Padan Fain anymore. I was so sure he was going to be set up as a foil or some kind of parallel to Mat but he seems to be obsessed with Perrin now? Not sure why, but I’m loving his batshit insane vibe.

Something something Moiriane and her relationship to time. Her being like “I have no time” a couple of chapters ago to now being like your right your right we have time.

The Aiel honour system giving positive points to being Aes Sedai and negative points for being Cairhenin making Moiraine cancel out. Amazing.

Everytime Rand is forced to make a big choice I take psychic damage. Baby no... 🥺😢

I want to know more about Aiel Flower symbolism actually. What kinds of plants grow in the waste?

MAGIC SWORD MAGIC SWORD MAGIC SWORD I LOVE MAGIC SWORDS. The Cairhein sun motif just goes so hard. There better be a cool thematic thing that happens with this sword otherwise what is the point??? Also where is this sword from cause like I really doubt that Laman was a blademaster, man does not give me those vibes. SO HYPED FOR THIS MAGIC SWORD WITH A SORDID BACKSTORY!!!!

Just realized Mats thing has a raven on it. Does that have something to do with the Seanchan maybe? Like maybe the Seeker people with the raven tattoos? Or I guess it could just be cursed by the dark one or something. Mat would become un-possed just to go and immediately pick up another cursed object.

RAND BABY NO

What is up with that other doorway terangreal? WHY DOES MOIRAINE CARE ABOUT IT? I just need to know.

Nynaeve as the carnival book-keeper is everything I did not know I needed from life. Every second of screentime Nynaeve gets, I love her more. OF COURSE she says she's the book-keeper.

Everyone reading into everything Rand does as the madness. Me frantically pointing at mat: "is anyone gonna look at that???"

For real though, I don't think Rand is mad at all yet. The little bits and pieces of information we get from his past as Lews Therin are definitely starting him in that direction for sure but all of his choices have been well thought out and logical so far. A lot of characters are saying he's become colder and/or harder since starting on this journey that has now been almost an entire year and are quick to blame this change on the madness. But really all of his choices and decisions are of someone trying to gain trust and respect from those around them and doing what needs to be done. Like sorry Egwene but Rand has not become harder because of the madness. He has become harder because that's what he has needed to become to survive and gain followers.

[twistedtummies2]

Top 15 Portrayals of The Riddler

Last time, I talked about my favorite Batman Villain, the Joker. Today, I’ll be talking about my second favorite: Edward Nygma, a.k.a. The Riddler.

The Riddler is a villain who I sometimes feel doesn’t get the respect he deserves. This is mostly due to the fact that, for a long time, the character was treated as something of a joke: he went from one of Batman’s smartest and most iconic foes to a muckle nuisance who was nowhere near as great as he thought. There are still ripples of that nowadays, with people who complain about the Riddler as a “dumb” villain, or as a “Joker clone,” both of which are patently untrue. The character has seemed to gain at least a little more respect nowadays, however, especially in the past year or so since Paul Dano’s portrayal (more on him later) hit the silver screen. On that note, there’s not much more to say, so here are My Top 15 Favorite Portrayals of The Riddler!

15. Matthew Gray Gubler.

Gubler’s Riddler had a small but important role in the direct-to-video movie “Assault on Arkham,” which took place in the same universe as the Batman: Arkham video games, occurring sometime between Arkham Origins and Arkham Asylum. Why the movie didn’t just use Wally Wingert, who played the Riddler in the games, I couldn’t possibly tell you, but to be fair, Gubler does a pretty good job in the film. He’s fittingly arrogant, as well as occasionally childish and petulant, with a snide sort of confidence that doesn’t seem to ebb even when a gun is pointed at his face. This is a Riddler who just seems to know he’ll overcome whatever’s thrown his way, which is kind of fun to watch. The only reason he ranks so low is that, while Nygma is important to the overall plot of the movie, he’s not really the focus in any way, and has a relatively meagre amount of screentime. On top of that, because of the universe this is set in, his work just can’t help but call Wingert from the games to mind, which doesn’t do him any favors. Still, it’s a decent depiction of the character.

14. Tom Kenny.

Kenny didn’t so much VOICE the Riddler so much as provide sound effects for him in the first LEGO Batman video game. This does not, by any means, make his take on Edward Nygma any less fun. In the game, the story is split into three separate chapters, each featuring one of Batman’s villains leading a group of others on some mad scheme. The first chapter of the game involves the Riddler, who leads a group of scoundrels including Two-Face, Clayface, Mr. Freeze, and Poison Ivy in an elaborate plan to steal a great amount of gold. Since the Riddler never actually spoke in this game, the LEGO creators came up with a fun new way of incorporating his schtick of leaving clues to his crimes into the story: this Riddler would leave puzzle boxes, filled with seemingly random pieces of LEGO, at the scene of each caper. Batman and Robin would later have to put the literal pieces together to figure out Riddler’s endgame and try to stop him. The Riddler was not only one of the main villains, but also a playable character: he was nimble, quick, and - in a reference to Batman Forever - this Riddler could even use mind-control, with a hypnotic device built into his cane. Considering he never spoke an actual word, this was a surprisingly powerful take on the Count of Conundrums, and it’s a pity that in later LEGO Batman games, the Riddler was relegated to minor roles and short side missions rather than having any major part in the story.

13. Les Hedger.

I’m willing to bet a lot of you haven’t heard of this one. Hedger voiced the Riddler in a PC game entitled “Batman: Toxic Chill,” one of two Batman games released by The Learning Company in the early 2000s. The games were puzzle games, with some action-based elements, and were actually set in the universe of the comics at the time, featuring such elements as Cassandra Cain’s Batgirl, one of her very few appearances in other media. However, they were mostly geared at children, and were very clearly based more on the DCAU, in terms of tone and aesthetic style. In “Toxic Chill,” the Riddler teams up with Mr. Freeze, who is planning to make an upgrade to his weaponry that will allow him to put Gotham in a state of endless winter. However, right from the start, it’s not entirely clear what the Riddler himself plans to get out of this plan, and as the game goes on, we quickly realize he has ulterior motives of his own. The Riddler’s true goal is perfect, and he turns out to be a surprisingly intense threat in this story, ready to backstab just about anybody, and causing incredible destruction everywhere he goes. He’s a rather obscure portrayal of the Riddler, but I think he’s a fun and interesting one.

12. Shannon McCormick.

Another case where the Riddler has a fairly small role, but the character and actor make the most of it. In “DC Universe Online,” the Riddler - who, at this point, was actually trying to retire from crime and acting as a private eye - contacts the heroes with information on a team-up between the Joker and the mad scientist, T.O. Morrow. However, the meet-up is interrupted by Deathstroke, whom Joker has apparently hired to assassinate Riddler before he can share any information. McCormick’s Riddler is wonderfully smug and smarmy, and at times can be downright spooky in the way he delivers his lines; while Nygma is technically on our side in this story, it’s pretty clear he’s not totally to be trusted, and his true motives for what he’s doing are not entirely obvious. At the same time, however, that supercilious facade breaks in an instant, and the Riddler becomes a cowardly, craven cretin once his life is threatened, which only makes the encounter more fun to experience. It’s also interesting to see the Riddler in a non-villainous role for a change; I only know of really one other interpretation that focuses on the Riddler’s brief time as a detective rather than his supervillainy…but we’ll get to that elsewhere in the ranks.

11. John Astin.

Yep! Gomez Addams, of all people, once played the Riddler. During the run of the 1960s Batman series, Frank Gorshin left the show for a while after unsuccessfully seeking a pay raise. While he was away, the show’s producers and writers still wanted to feature the Riddler, partially because of the character’s popularity, and partially because they already had scripts ready for a couple of Riddler stories. They first tried to rewrite one of the scripts to fit a Superman villain, the Puzzler, but this didn’t go so well…so, for the other script, they brought back the Riddler properly. Gorshin, however, was still reluctant to return (he eventually would for a final appearance in Season 3), so in Season 2’s two parter “Batman’s Anniversary/A Riddling Controversy,” Astin stepped in to take over. Astin does a good job with the character, in my opinion, and in some ways you could argue he brings a more modern Riddler to life, presenting a sneaky, sly Riddler who, while energized, was not the psychotic jumping bean Gorshin could be. In fact, my only problem with Astin’s Riddler is that the script was very obviously written FOR Gorshin’s character, and unfortunately, John Astin and Frank Gorshin were VERY different performers. Still, overall, it’s an underrated depiction, in my opinion. FUN FACT: the Riddler’s cane was actually a concept introduced by John Astin. I’ll get to the why when we talk about Frank Gorshin’s portrayal, but the idea was later adopted into the comics after the 60s series ended. So for those who love the Riddler’s iconic question mark cane, thank Gomez here!

10. John Michael Higgins.

Higgins mostly gets onto this list because he has a claim to fame few other Riddlers have: he’s one of very few takes on the character to be a main villain in a Batman movie. Now, the movie in question was an animated direct-to-video piece, but I still feel it’s an accomplishment worth pointing out: only a select number of Batman Villains have that honor, regardless of the medium and release strategy. Higgins voiced the character in the TV series “Batman: The Brave and the Bold.” Heavily inspired by Bell’s take on the Riddler from Superfriends, this high-pitched, cackling heckler of a puzzlemaster mostly appeared in small roles, although he did have a turn as the main villain in the episode “The Criss-Cross Conspiracy,” where it was revealed that the Riddler was responsible for Batwoman’s retirement, and the disgraced vigilante went after the Prince of Puzzles for revenge. This would prove foreshadowing of his most shining moment, where the Riddler played the role of a major antagonist in the film “Scooby-Doo Meets Batman: The Brave and the Bold,” a crossover of the series with the Scooby-Doo franchise, which paid homage to the old “Scooby-Doo Meets Batman & Robin” episodes of “The New Scooby-Doo Movies.” Seeing the Riddler in such a primary focal role was a real treat to me, and it once again helped to remind me how much fun he was as a character. It’s one of the main reasons I like the movie, and it gives Higgins’ depiction of the character a big boost.

9. Jim Carrey.

I honestly feel like I probably shouldn’t be giving Carrey such high placement, but I have to admit, while over time I’ve come to realize the flaws in his take on the character, I do still like it. It’s a very quotable and iconic portrayal. Carrey’s bouncy, hyperactive antics as the Riddler may seem at times more akin to Robbie Rotten than Edward Nygma, but it’s pretty fun to watch him flounce about, bounding from one scene to the next with such passion and excitement. The Riddler’s origins are also pretty interesting; in this version, Nygma is a half-mad scientist who idolizes Bruce Wayne, and when his idol lets him down, he begins to abuse the technology he’s made to try and outmatch his hero-turned-rival, obsessively seeking to gain either Wayne’s respect or destruction. To that end, after finding out his technology makes him smarter (somehow), Nygma teams up with Two-Face to expand on his work and discover the true identity of their twin nemesis, Batman. All throughout the story, Riddler leaves clues for Bruce that eventually lead to an elaborate puzzle to guess HIS identity. I love this parallel course of seeking identities, and while Carrey’s overblown cartoonishness can at times feel more like Joker than Riddler, the zany nature of the character isn’t totally unfitting, and he still captures the brainy sides of the character and his desire to be considered the cleverest man in Gotham. It’s still a version I think of quickly whenever I think of the character.

8. Paul Dano.

I have to confess, when Paul Dano’s Riddler was announced, I was fully and totally expecting to HATE this portrayal. A lot of other things about 2022′s “The Batman” looked and sounded good, but this grungier, darker take on Edward Nygma just felt like it was taking all the wrong steps in trying to make the character “cool.” It DOES bug me, I must confess, that ever since the movie came out, only now do I hear more people calling the Riddler a great bad guy, when in my opinion he was ALWAYS one of the best. Having said that, I was pleasantly surprised by a lot of what Dano did: while the character’s origins are different, and there are definitely several unique elements to the portrayal, I was honestly very happy with how much of the original source material was KEPT in the final product. This is still the Riddler: an occasionally childish egomaniac with a dark sense of humor and a bizarre sort of relationship with the one he perceives as his possible intellectual equal, Batman. The dots on the i’s may be slightly off, and the crosses on the t’s may be crooked, but everything is in place with the long-established character...or, at least, almost everything. The one thing I not only don’t like, but in fact utterly DESPISE about this Riddler - and it’s the primary reason (although not the only reason) I can’t place him any higher - is the costume. I loathe this costume with a burning passion. I wanted to like it, after stuff people told me, but I don’t think I ever will. This just isn’t the Riddler to me, in any way, shape, or form, plain and simple. But clothes don’t entirely make the man: Dano’s Riddler is still a fascinating portrayal...just not enough to get him higher in the ranks.

7. Brent Spiner.

Like I said before, DC Universe Online wasn’t the first nor only version to take advantage of the Riddler’s retirement from crime to become a private eye. In an episode of the series “Justice League Action,” Brent Spiner (former Joker, Puck, and Data from Star Trek) voiced the Riddler for a story focused on the same point. In “E. Nygma, Consulting Detective” (named after the first story with the Riddler as a detective in the comics), Spiner’s Riddler has gone straight, and teams up with Wonder Woman and Green Arrow, after the Joker kidnaps Batman and starts leaving puzzles around the city to try and figure out his final endgame, deliberately ripping off Riddler’s M.O. Insulted and determined to get revenge, Riddler’s propensity for puzzles actually turns out to be a major asset to the two heroes…but throughout the story, it’s made clear that old habits die hard, as this Riddler is still an egotist, and still has compulsions he can’t control, despite his supposed sanity. Spiner’s smooth and snappy vocals fit the character perfectly, bringing both smug superiority and a sense of whimsical glee to the character. It was fun to see the Riddler effectively play Sherlock Holmes for a change, and the look of the character - which makes me think of a combination of his designs from the DCAU - may be one of my favorite designs outside of comics I’ve ever seen. I also love how, despite being ostensibly a good guy here, Riddler still has his dark side; he’s not doing what he does out of the goodness of his heart, and it’s clear that, despite being released from Arkham, he isn’t TRULY cured of his obsessions. I also have a particular soft spot for this one, as I actually got a Riddler comic autographed by Spiner at my local ComicCon! I think that shows my reasons for placing this one so highly on its own terms.

6. Robin Atkin Downes.

Like I said on my previous list, Telltale’s games were hit and miss with their character portrayals, but when they made a hit, they REALLY made a hit. While the Riddler’s time in the story of Telltale’s second Batman game, “The Enemy Within,” is relatively small compared to others, the impact he leaves is gigantic. In the story of these games, Riddler is actually the first supervillain, and came to Gotham long before Batman’s time. He was eventually incarcerated, but in the course of the story, he returns to Gotham City under mysterious circumstances. I love the idea of the old villain returning to wreak havoc again, and Batman facing an enemy from a time before himself. Downes brings an eerie intelligence to the character, making him sophisticated and sneering, but just unhinged enough to do just about anything. Riddler’s presence ends up being a catalyst to many of the events that happen in the game; I’ve said before that something I love are villains with a legacy. The idea that, even after a character is defeated or destroyed, the things they said and/or did still haunt the ones they tormented, ensuring that even if they personally can’t have an effect, they will never be forgotten. This Riddler is exactly that, and as a result, even if he isn’t around long, the way he takes part in the story turns out to be one of the most fascinating uses of the character I’ve seen in a long time.

5. John Glover.

While the Riddler’s appearances in the DCAU were few in number, many would argue this take on the character is one of the most influential ever done. Prior to his appearance in this show, the Riddler had been treated for years as a sort of corny “gimmick villain” - again, there was a long period of time where Edward Nygma was considered more of a bungling annoyance, a “Loser Rogue,” than a true threat. With John Glover’s vocals and the writing and animation of “Batman: The Animated Series,” all that changed: for the first time in a long time, a more mainstream Riddler was treated as a serious enemy. There was no denying this Riddler was a genius; a mad intellectual whose need to show his superiority over others and gain revenge on the ones he felt stood in his way compelled him to terrifying lengths. While still a showman of sorts, with a wily sense of wit and an occasionally childlike temperament, this Riddler was nevertheless a dangerous and surprisingly elusive antagonist. Most vocal performers for the character since Glover have really followed in his footsteps, and one could argue even the comics have taken a great deal from this take on the Riddler since. The only downside to Glover is that there were some fundamental problems with his stories AS the Riddler, and again, he had a relatively meagre amount of appearances: after three key episodes in BTAS, he only showed up for cameos and minor roles throughout the rest of the DCAU. He was treated much better in the spin-off comics for these series, which occasionally gave Riddler some surprisingly powerful tales to play with, but for the most part, the character was very much a background element: evidently, the writers of the show found it hard to work with the character. It’s a pity his appearances were so few, because it was always a treat when this Riddler showed up.

4. Cory Michael Smith.

Gotham’s take on the Riddler seems to be slightly polarizing: for some people, he was one of the most brilliantly handled characters in the show, while for others he was apparently a bit annoying. I obviously fall into the former crowd. Granted, like a lot of things in Gotham, Smith’s take on Edward Nygma took a while to grow on me, but as time went on and I realized what they were doing with the character, and he began to come more and more into his own, so to speak, I truly started to fall in love with this portrayal. In this universe, the Riddler is given a unique new twist, as Edward Nygma suffers from a split-personality complex: one side is the awkward, quirky, generally harmless Edward, and the other half is the flamboyant, narcissistic, and homicidal Riddler. While I admit the portrayal is a bit odd (wasn’t Two-Face supposed to be the one with a dual identity? You guys had Harvey in the show, you know…), I actually came to really love Smith’s depiction of the character and the many twists and turns his story would take. I especially loved the relationship he and Penguin forged, with its own ups and downs as they would constantly flip-flop from being the best of friends to the most bitter of adversaries, each completely trusting and yet totally untrusting of the other. Nygma’s search for identity and purpose was just as powerful as any other story arc the characters in the show went through, and I was always excited whenever the Riddler showed up by the end of the series. He started off as one of my least favorite elements, and by the time the show was over, he had become my second favorite character in the whole show after the aforementioned Penguin. For that rise to glory alone, he deserves high ranking.

3. Wally Wingert.

While he is not my favorite overall (by virtue of only being third place), Wally Wingert is, perhaps, the definitive voice of the Riddler. Wingert played the character in the Arkham video game series, and - alongside the Joker, Killer Croc, and Harley Quinn - is, I think, the only villain who appears in all of the games, to some degree or another. In every game, the Riddler acts as a sort of running subplot in the story, as he leaves puzzles and traps all over the map for Batman to deal with, and trophies for the Dark Knight to collect. In the first Arkham game, we never actually saw the Riddler, and his collectibles were more a fun side thing than anything else. In the later games, however, the Riddler’s role was somewhat expanded: he was still only a side piece, but now there was more of a story to his role, and we actually got to meet him physically. Wingert would reprise the role in the animated films “Return of the Caped Crusaders” and “Batman vs. Two-Face,” both of which were set in the continuity of the 1960s TV series. He proved just as capable impersonating the late, great Frank Gorshin as he was in the Arkham games. Between these two interpretations, you’d be hard-pressed to find someone who doesn’t recognize his Riddler as one of the greats.

2. Robert Englund.

Placing this interpretation so high up is probably a surprise to people, for a few reasons. One is the design; this Riddler appeared in the animated series “The Batman,” and, just like a certain movie of the same title, his design went in a very different and darker direction, taking inspiration from Marilyn Manson of all people. I’ve heard tell that Manson was actually going to voice the Riddler, but that deal fell through. Personally, as far as I can perceive, these are just rumors…but it doesn’t really matter either way because, honestly, it’s hard to imagine anyone but Robert Englund in the role now. And yes, Freddy fans, it’s THAT Robert Englund: this is actually my second favorite of his performances besides Freddy. His raspy, dangerous vocals bring an edge to the Riddler you’ll find almost nowhere else, but he’s still able to capture the character’s supercilious and flippant elements, and can even tap into the “man-child” side of Edward Nygma whenever the Riddler gets upset about people “cheating.” I wouldn’t say the design works for the Riddler IN GENERAL, but for THIS SPECIFIC RIDDLER, with this show’s style and this person behind the voice, it suits admirably. (As opposed to Paul Dano’s version where, I’m sorry, even in-universe, I just can’t stand that costume.) The other reason is that this Riddler, just like John Glover’s, had a decidedly small number of appearances: once again, only three major stories, plus a couple of cameos. And while this is true…I just personally like the episodes Englund’s Riddler has more than the episodes Glover’s Riddler has. It’s an unpopular opinion, I’m certain, but it’s one I’m sticking to.

1. Frank Gorshin.

Even nowadays, for many people, Frank Gorshin simply IS the Riddler. The character would honestly not be as popular today as he is if it hadn’t been for Gorshin’s star-making appearances as the character in the silly 60s. Not only was Gorshin the first person to play the Riddler, but in my opinion, he PERFECTED the part, and in many ways he is responsible for the character we know now. For a superficial example, there’s the costume: in the comics, the Riddler wore a skintight green outfit covered in question marks. While this was adapted to the series, Gorshin felt that the character’s choice of clothes wasn’t appropriate. This was an intellectual, he reasoned; a genius in his own mind, if no one else’s. He would want to dress in a manner that showed his sophistication. It was Gorshin who invented the look of the suit and derby hat we know today; the suit was custom made, and this is the reason John Astin didn’t wear it in his appearance. (It’s also why Astin’s Riddler came up with the cane; it was HIS way of showing the character’s dignified side.) Gorshin’s portrayal of the character, on a deeper level, reflects this, as well: the Riddler has always been a character with two sides, one zany and theatrical, the other more calculating and cold. Gorshin plays these extremes off brilliantly; we all know about his hyperactive antics and maniacal laughter, but what I find most impressive is how Gorshin’s Riddler could flip on a dime from a giggling green jumping bean to something far more dangerous. His voice would become lower, his motions slower, his whole stance more rigid, everything about him slowing down with predatory menace. Combined with the fact he had some of the nastiest death traps in the show, you really got the sense the Riddler was a real threat; a true psychopath, not just a cartoonish moustache-twirler like most of the other rogues in the series. He could still play the comedy brilliantly, but it’s that sense of genuine menace beneath the goofiness that I think allows Gorshin’s portrayal to be so immortal, and it makes him, easily, My Favorite Riddler.

[booksinsteadofdrugs]

the cast of shadow and bone. was. perfect.

alina was straight out of the books. jessie portrayed her stubbornness, naivety, and confusion incredibly. from the way she denied her power at first, to the moment where she took it back from the darkling and claimed it hers. jessie mei li is the sun summoner, and we couldn't have asked for a better one.

malyen was even better than the malyen we've seen in the books. archie did a fantastic job with the character (he needs to be praised more considering his character is one of the most unnecessarily hated characters of all time and he was given hard time by some fans from the moment he was cast for the show). he was brave, loyal and charming the whole time. they added depth to his character with those keramzin flashbacks and both jessie and archie turned malina's bond into something more pure and more sweet. archie's acting was also one of the highlights of this show for me. he was just perfect.

i believe ben barnes was born to play the darkling, and no. i'm not being dramatic. he's captured the darkling's intimidating, manipulating yet charming nature so well. he wasn't just trying to manipulate alina, he was also manipulating the audience to think he is just a misunderstood man, paying the price of his ancestors' crimes. he was the best casting choice i've seen in a long time. the fact that he's older than anyone in the cast adds more layer to the darkling's image, i believe. in every scene he screams authority. from his posture to the way he's spitting out the words, we can see that ben has been working hard on this character. and personally, i'm so grateful for that.

the crows. they. were. incredible. i have no words. amita suman is literally the inej that everyone imagined while reading the books. she managed to capture every little detail about inej. especially seeing how her faith was affecting her decisions when it comes to killing was amazing. and the way she didn't hesitate to kill when kaz was in danger. and her admiration for alina. god, i just love inej so much. freddie did a spectacular job with kaz. he was incredible. i remember seeing inej and jesper flinching and turning their heads when alexei was shot, but kaz stood their like a statue, not moving an inch. without blinking. because he already knew what was gonna happen. also, i loved how he constantly denied believing alina was a saint until he finally did, and it was for inej. the way freddie always watched amita in scenes, always making sure she's nearby made me smile like an idiot. he had a purpose in every scene, he was never just standing there for show. that's the kaz brekker we know. he always has a plan and freddie portrayed kaz's confidence, his cunning nature and his faith in his crew so well. jesper was incredible. i could feel how much love kit has for his character from the way he played with his guns to the way he walked, he was literally just having fun with his character. i loved how tense he looked in ravka sometimes, not forgetting his character's abilities. he portrayed jesper's playful nature amazingly and it was a delight seeing him in this character. he made me laugh countless times throughout the season, and i can't wait to see more of him (especially with wylan) god, i love him so much.

nina and matthias. their chemistry. dude. i can't even speak. i feel like all the people who complained about danielle not fitting the nina image they had in their mind owe danielle an apology. because she was just perfect. i know i've used this word so many times but there's honestly no other way to describe it. danielle and calahan were literally shining together. the sexual tension was so tense. they were impeccable and netflix, i'm begging you, please give them more scenes in the next season. they made me scream, they made me laugh, and they made me cry. calahan portrayed matthias's superstitious and innocent personality so great. and the way nina was constantly flirting with him to make him embarrassed, they were literally the book helnik. i love them so much.

zoya. my queen. i wasn't expecting her to have this much screentime anf i was scared they were going to use her as a background character since she didn't have much part in the first book but wow, sujaya made sure to steal every scene she was in. she was always fierce, ambitious and gorgeous the whole time. you just can't stop yourself from adoring her. and she portrayed zoya's character development so beautifully. especially in the last scenes. i can't wait to see her more in the next season, especially with nikolai. c'mon netflix, speed things up if you have to. i want to see them together.

genya and david were great too. especially in the scene where we see genya with her new kefta gave me chills. knowing what she had to do to get it was intense. daisy was great as genya, her movements were always elegant, and we could sense the injustice that happened to her considering the few scenes she was in, especially without being explained clearly. luke pasqualino is a comedic genius. i loved seeing his awkward yet adorable david portrayal so much. especially his uncomfortable silence after genya says "see you at the fete". his uncertain movements and the way he raised his finger before speaking was hilarious. i loved their stolen glances at the winter fete. i need more of them, like, right now.

and also i wanna thank the writers for making ivan and fedyor gay. they were the couple i didn't know i need it. the way fedyor was feeding him was so cute. it even made me feel bad for ivan at the end when jesper shot him, although i didn't care for him in the books at all.

long story short, this cast made the characters even more likeable than the books. which is so rare considering all the horrible book to screen adaptations. they were all perfect. and they earned my gratitude for taking time to read the books, and do their job so well.

they did justice to leigh's work and i can't be more proud.

[albatris]

@polyacery​

:D!! yes!! ok!! yes!! please forgive the much-much-much-lengthier-than-intended ramble sorry thank you love you <3

first off, two facts about Noa and Kai:

they care about each other a lot

they cannot fucking STAND each other 90% of the time

they struggle a lot when it comes to teamwork, their personalities don't mesh well under pressure and their approaches to problem-solving differ wildly, so they often end up getting on each other’s nerves and being quite tense when they have to work together :P nothing, like, dramatic though, and nothing that escalates beyond general bickering and annoyance

that being said, on a personal and social level they do view each other as close friends and (can) get along well, though you’d be hard-pressed to get either of them to admit it. they share a lot of similarities (some of which I’ll go into) and both value the other as someone they can be open and honest with and drop their guard around, which is sayin somethin ‘cause openness and honesty are notoriously difficult for both of them lmao

in general I would say hmmmm

Noa views Kai (fondly) as a bastard and a swindler and possibly the most infuriating person she’s ever met, an opinion which does not change even as she grows to consider them a friend. like, genuinely? she fuckin hates their guts. and their ridiculously charming smile. and the way they can sweet talk their way into or out of any situation. she’s a little bitter about the way people just seem to hand over whatever Kai wants just ‘cause they’re a smooth-talker and good at pulling strings, ‘cause that level of uhhhhh sneaky interpersonal finesse is not something she’s ever really been able to access and it strikes her as cheating ahaha

that being said, though she finds their personality grating and their face punchable, they’re a person who cares intensely about people, not in an abstract theoretical all-talk-no-action kind of way, but in a concrete, physical, motivated “hey let me help you with that right now” kind of way, which Noa will never have any beef with. too many people sit around talking about what it means to do the right thing. not enough people get out there in a van full of interdimensional crime and pull off elaborate heists for the greater good

Kai has a similar take on Noa in that regard, as in, like. she’s kind of hardcore, yes. but. there are too many people sitting around talking about what it means to do the right thing, not enough people getting rightfully fucking unhinged and charging headfirst into injustice and cruelty and punching the shit out of it. her methods are a little too impulsive and headstrong for Kai’s tastes but it works for her n they’re cheering from the sidelines lol

but ye, Kai views Noa as. hm. a very very very intense person who is a lot of fun to mess with. pretty much as soon as Kai realises Noa isn’t going to be a threat in any capacity they’re like “sick now I have free reign to be the most annoying person in the universe” and they absolutely follow through. they find her passion and intensity amusing but admirable, and they were sold on the fact that she’s a good, kind person no matter her prickly exterior the second they saw how much she adores her mum c:

so, arguably, half of the next part is just,,,, me elaborating to an excessive extent,,,,, but this info used to be at the start of the ramble so I’d already written it before being like “hey wait a minute” so to hell with it I’m including it anyway

these two don’t get a lot of screentime together till the second half of the book and they have a pretty rocky start imo

like, Noa’s first impressions of Kai on two separate occasions are “that bastard who robbed me while I was on the clock” and “that random weirdo who somehow charmed my best friend into thinking they’re cool even though they sound like the shadiest motherfucker on the entire planet and I’m pretty sure they’re a serial killer”, which then culminate into “oh shit these are in fact the same person and they’re definitely bad news”

Kai never dislikes Noa the same way Noa dislikes them, but they are wary of her and have a healthy degree of fear regarding the threat she could pose to them.......... Kai and Noa’s different career choices put them at odds with each other right off the bat, what with Noa working for the Department of Interdimensional Instabilities and Kai operating a significantly less legal business that’s essentially the antithesis of the DII

plus Noa in general has a reputation for being Kind Of Fucking Terrifying

initially I would say they both view the other as “potentially a legitimate threat” and “not to be underestimated”, but post-mid-story-heist they get to spend some proper time together and form more grounded opinions of each other :P though arguably still for a considerable while the only reason they put up with each other is because Tris is like “:D” at them both and they’re like........ aw no I don’t wanna make him sad

Kai warms to Noa a lot faster than Noa warms to Kai, ‘cause Kai warms to most people pretty quick provided they’re not literal axe murderers. Noa starts to warm to Kai only after careful observation and assessment leads her to conclude the following two facts with reasonable certainty:

Kai does appear to be in possession of a solid moral compass

Kai has no ill intent towards Tris whatsoever

which tips the scale in their favour enough for her to be like “okay fine”

there's a level of distance and awkwardness between them for ages 'cause like, yeah, they're friends they guess but not like, friends-friends, there just seems to be something that's not clicking, n the main reason for that is just like

(handshake meme)

a deep-seated terror of being emotionally open and vulnerable resulting in a pathological need to project a loud outgoing persona that masks every ounce of insecurity and fear and prevents anyone from getting close enough to Know You: Noa 🤝 Kai

as soon as THAT realisation clicks for both of them n they're like "oh shit you're just like me and I know exactly how you feel" it instils a sense of connection and camaraderie between them and solidifies a kinship based on Something rather than simply "mutual friends" and "sometimes we're in the same place"

n like, obviously the others Know about the whole. situation. with Kai’s backstory but Kai’s still pretty cagey about it emotionally speaking.... I’m pretty sure Noa is?? the only person they manage to completely drop their guard around over the course of the story? in terms of like.... having a genuine heart-to-heart about the emotions involved and the fear n guilt

and like. yeah. yeah. Noa hasn’t made a friend besides Tris in like ten years n she’s also notoriously cagey with her emotions and her being genuine and vulnerable is just....... not a thing that happens very often or very easily.... and even less through a lot of the story

idk man. they’ve just got good vibes together

they offer each other a Safe Place and a level of understanding that maybe the others don’t quite grasp. even though the others r still empathetic and care for them a lot n have equally important things they bring to the friendship. Noa and Kai just have a vibe yeah

even though they’d sell each other to satan for one corn chip

[panharmonium]

@dreamersscape​ please forgive me for tagging you in a post to respond to your comments; tumblr’s reply feature is hard to have an extended/coherent conversation on, and I’m so excited to talk to a kindred Naruto spirit that I knew I was gonna write too much for it all to fit in that space XD

re: hinata - Oh my gosh, YES, my sister and I were so frustrated by how they just completely never addressed that moment again.  I wasn't surprised, because it's been clear from the beginning that this show doesn't really care much about women, so the female characters' storylines getting dropped or never explored in the first place is pretty much what I've always expected, but it's still infuriating.  

Honestly, the only good thing about this show's general disinterest in women is that it means that I don't place any blame on in-story Naruto for never addressing what Hinata did for him, because I know the fact that we don't see him dealing with her confession isn't actually intended to communicate anything about his reaction/non-reaction/level of investment; it's literally just a function of the fact that the writer doesn't care about her story.  It's the same way I feel about how we see so much less one-on-one time between Kakashi and Sakura - her lack of screentime with him isn't something about which a person can credibly argue "Oh, this means Kakashi doesn't care about her enough and he's a bad teacher etc etc," because the imbalance isn’t a deliberate writing decision we're supposed to analyze for characterization.  It's a reflection of the fact that the entire show is super sexist. XD

re: danzo: It’s one thing to have your villain believe himself to the hero of his own story, and like, another to have Danzo basically tout having darkness in your heart being a great thing and encouraging it’s presence/cultivating it - lmao YES!  And honestly, this is why I actually find Danzo LESS infuriating than the Third Hokage.  Like, Danzo is Super Evil and every time he exploits another child I want to watch him die all over again, but at least he like....owns his horribleness?  Whereas Hiruzen is the biggest hypocrite on the planet - when I rewatched the Shonen Jump stuff a while back (my sister and I took a little break prior to Season 11 and rewatched some old stuff), I couldn't stand listening to Hiruzen go on and on about how the entire Leaf Village is his family and it's his role to protect all of them etc etc, because like - he literally covered up the genocide of Sasuke's entire family and let the perpetrator remain in power (and that was before I even knew about all these other crimes he allowed to go unpunished!!!)  Danzo may be the Worst, but at least he's not pretending to be anything other than what he is.  Hiruzen is still acting like he's everybody's sweet old grandpa, and that makes me even more angry than Danzo's straight-up horribleness.  (And I do agree with you, they definitely lean harder into the "Lord Third is amazing" stuff pre-Shippuden, I just still feel confused about what the show is ultimately trying to say about him because we haven't gotten an explicit enough condemnation of his choices yet, and I feel like it's way overdue XD )

re: minato - Hard agree that Minato is an enigma.  I don't feel like I fully understand him either - and not in a bad way, just in the sense that he's hard to read.  The toughest thing for me to parse was always how distant he seemed with his students, which was surprising to me at first, because he'd been built up as sort of this "ideal shinobi" figure for such a long time, but to me, an ideal shinobi teacher looks more like...well, Kakashi, to be honest.  And it took a while for me to reconcile with the fact that Minato and Kakashi really do just relate to their students very differently.  I think Minato has always been a soldier, and I think he sees children as soldiers, too - not in an evil way at all, just in the sense that this is how the shinobi world works, and how it has always worked.  It's not a "wrong" way to perceive shinobi kids, in the context of the story's universe.  And so when things happen to those kids, he absolutely cares, but it's also sort of just a grim fact of life for him.  It's like when Kushina tells him she doesn't want to make Naruto a jinchuriki, and she asks 'why do we have to do that to him, why does he have to suffer that way for the sake of the balance of power between nations,' and Minato's response is “Because our family is Shinobi.”  That was a really telling moment for me in terms of how he sees the world.  It's not something I'm interested in condemning him for, like you said; I don't think the story is ever asking us to do that, it’s just a philosophy that's very different from how Kakashi sees things and what he thinks children's experiences should be like.  

I guess what I ultimately think (from the material we’ve seen so far, at least) is that Minato seems to perceive the loss of his students as something that Kakashi is struggling with, not something he himself is agonizing over.  It’s a very sad thing that happened, of course, but it’s just part of the way their world works/a function of the times they live in.  It's not something Minato is tormenting himself about.  Whereas I think that if Kakashi ever lost a kid, it would have killed him.  And I don't think this fact is in any way supposed to paint Minato as a bad person.  He's not!  All it means is that there is a generational difference between the world Kakashi and Co. are trying to create and the world Minato always knew, and people like Minato are doing the best they can with the framework they have.  

I do like the guy a lot - and I wonder what he might have been like if he had lived to see a permanent peace established.

re: little Yamato - oh boy, those episodes nearly ended me.  I am already very, very, VERY weak for Kakashi and Yamato’s friendship, and seeing Kakashi rescue Yamato from that horrible place (literally and metaphorically) was too much for me to handle.  Kakashi’s silhouette replacing Danzo in Yamato’s memories of being rescued from Orochimaru’s lab - that slew me.  And the way Danzo tells Yamato “you have no past, no future, no name” juxtaposed with Kakashi introducing Yamato as Tenzo because he remembers from three years ago how Yamato once rebelled at being called Kinoe and yelled “MY NAME IS TENZO” - Kakashi just using that chosen name without hesitation, without question, without needing to be told...it all ties back into the recent thematic throughline the show is working with about Identity - the importance of the Tailed Beasts having names, Kabuto’s desperate and misguided search for “who and what he is,” Itachi reclaiming his true self by undoing the reanimation justu and declaring “I am Itachi Uchiha of the Leaf Village,” Obito claiming that his real name doesn’t matter anymore, that he’s Nobody...it’s fantastic how they’re pulling all this together.

re: Kakashi and little Naruto - oh man, the feelings.  I agree with you that Kakashi was in no place to be dealing with this, but certainly under different circumstances I think he would have loved to be a part of baby Naruto’s life.  I actually think the reasoning behind “let’s put Kakashi in a situation where he’s in close contact with someone bringing new life into the world” is sound - I think that would be a really good thing for him!  Just not in the sense of “you’re Kushina’s personal bodyguard, so if anything happens to her and the baby you can blame yourself for it.” XD  Like...Minato could have invited Kakashi in for dinner sometimes, instead of having him constantly stand guard under their window???  If it had been more “we care about you and we want you to be a part of our family”....ugh, that would have been amazing.  Kakashi is already SO good with Naruto (who is NOT by any means an easy kid to manage) - he just has such good instincts about how to talk to that kid and teach him in ways that work WITH Naruto’s particular brand of high motivation/low frustration tolerance, ping-pong emotional extremes, explosive energy levels, zero impulse control, and an inability to process more than one thing at a time.  Handling Naruto effectively would be a challenging project for any teacher, never mind taking care of Naruto and two other kids, but Kakashi is a natural at it.  It would have been awesome to see what Kakashi was like with Naruto when they were even younger...though the Feels might knocked me out.

[also, you mentioned Naruto and Obito - I cannot even tell you the Extremest Agonies I was in when the big reveal happened and I had to hear Naruto blankly go “who is he” - utterly clueless, without the faintest idea that he’s looking at the person who shaped his entire moral philosophy.  The amount of things that these kids don’t know...that fact that Naruto has been quoting this very person all his life and making all his major life decisions based on the lesson Kakashi relayed to them on Day One - Obito’s words - oh boy oh boy I was not capable of handling that even the littlest bit.]

[brave-clarice]

“Clarice” Liveblog: Episode 7

disclaimer: there’s going to be discussion of a lot of little details I disliked in this one, but as a whole, I liked it a lot better!

honestly? Clarice’s coworkers have every reason to question if she’s “okay” given what we’ve seen so far on this show.

and yeah, coming back from leave a week after being repeatedly tortured does “seem soon”.

AG Martin is using Clarice just as badly as Crawford ever did.

why does Krendler look so sharp? tailored waistcoat, crisp shirt...his costumes would look more in-character for Hannibal than Paul Krendler. I don’t get it.

not sure I like the “my people mined coal, so we know when we’re okay to work” flex, but...whatever.

she makes some truly uninspired costume and hair choices look great

“who am I, James Bond?” are you an FBI agent or aren’t you, Krendler?

BIG Jack Crawford and his Pepto Bismol vibes, but dammit, Krendler should NOT be like Crawford!

now Ardelia’s back to collaborating with Clarice on a case like it’s no big deal??? way to make her look like a hypocrite. again.

idk, I still think Ardelia could have an FBI subplot AND be part of Clarice’s life without constantly working with Clarice within an FBI context (their careers don’t really intersect in the books). those things aren’t mutually exclusive.

“he died instantly” um, is Clarice a medical examiner now? I know she’s got a forensics background, but she’s just now seeing the body.

“Cody didn’t feel any pain” how does Clarice know that and why is confident enough to say it to the kid’s mother?!

also, are victim’s family members usually allowed right into the crime scene like that? paging @special-agent-pendragon​!

“let’s talk when we can” Clarice, honey...you literally live with Ardelia, lmao.

the crooked lawyer’s office reminds me a LOT of Chilton’s office in Silence.

Paul Krendler: Good Guy and Faithful Husband...don’t know him!

and again...this is a waste of time on Clarice’s show.

she’s so dang cute!

hey, a reference to Ardelia’s grandma!

Clarice and Ardelia working on a case together at home, off the clock, is way more on brand!

also Clarice eating junk food...that’s my girl :)

I too sometimes eat Lucky Charms out of the box, haha.

omg, Ardelia’s actual grandma!!!

and: a reference to her frying pan, the one Clarice looks into after reading Hannibal’s letter!

Clarice is finally laughing and drinking and having a good time with her best friend...I’m so happy about it.

literally exactly what I wanted/this show NEEDED

“at least my father‘s still alive” oh...my god...they really made Ardelia Mapp say that to Clarice... I...don’t know what to say except that I hate it. the scene was so great otherwise, too.

to be clear, imo this is not an appropriate thing to say to your best friend, ever.

Clarice might be drunk, but her nonchalant reaction (giggling!) is all wrong too, particularly for this Clarice, who’s always been shown as deeply traumatized/haunted.

maybe I’m 100% off-base on this, but I feel like Ardelia’s backstory in this show is at odds with her career choice: why does she go into law enforcement at all? does she truly believe she can make a substantial difference? hope this is addressed at some point.

“I can’t believe you never told me that before” I know this is expository, but I can’t believe it, either, Clarice.

there’s no indication in the books that Mrs. Starling was “always angry” or that Clarice was intimidated by/scared of her outbursts. she saw her mother as a pillar of strength! I don’t like this change tbh.

“he was the law. he was important” mmm...Clarice’s father was not important, and that’s the core of the tragedy, of her anger. it’s why Hannibal calls him the “night watchman” and the reason the Starlings didn’t receive any money or support after his death. he was expendable.

to be fair, I guess maybe this is supposed to be what Clarice’s idea of him was as a child.

this scene is full of little things I don’t like, and Clarice’s father giving her the add-a-bead necklace is definitely one of them.

in the book, Hannibal guesses that Clarice is afraid her beads now look tacky (having been previously trendy in the early-to-mid-80s...so, well after her father’s death). there’s NO indication they had any sentimental value (in fact, they’re never mentioned again iirc)--and with four kids to support, how can he afford to give his eight- or ten-year-old daughter decent jewelry, anyway???

I like the IDEA and the FEELING of that scene. just not the dialogue. and the entire thing is slightly undercut (imo) by Ardelia’s earlier mean-spirited comment. idk. it was cute, but this show’s writing is its own worst enemy.

Ardelia called her “Starling”! :)

Clarice’s costume is yet again blah, while Ardelia’s is great...anything but 199x, though.

money shot!

whew...didn’t see THAT plot twist coming.

Good Guy Paul Krendler continues to be a thing for some reason.

does the Hoover building only have one hallway?

Krendler gaslighting Clarice because someone is blackmailing him doesn’t hit the same as Krendler undercutting her career because he’s a sexist jackass who wants to fuck her. sorry.

Good: Clarice laughing/smiling/joking/having fun with her friend! A (could-have-been-better) bonding scene with Ardelia. Clarice getting to work a field case and the iconic shots that come with that territory. Ardelia’s grandma! Not a single mention of the Bill case, thank God.

Bad: Some of Clarice’s snap forensic judgments...they just felt too fast and unconvincing to me. Everyone’s costumes and hair continue to underwhelm me. (Why has Paul Krendler stolen Hannibal’s wardrobe? Why can’t Clarice wear something even remotely exciting?) Ardelia’s awful “at least my father’s still alive” comment. The muddled implications about Clarice’s mother (especially in an episode about an abusive mother).

Ugly: Krendler subplot, as usual.

Overall? Better. Much better. Absolutely a case of “the whole is greater than the sum of its parts”. Despite its subject matter, this episode was a lot more pleasant to watch than the previous two. Clarice had a limited amount of character development beyond “doe-eyed and traumatized,” she actually got to laugh, enjoy life, eat junk food (!) and solve a case with a friend before it all went to hell. 

I want more, though. The writing leaves a lot to be desired. There were a lot of small details of which I was critical, namely Ardelia’s insensitivity towards her best friend (unfortunately, this seems to be part of a pattern) and several minor but jarring and pointless changes to the books (mostly having to do with the Starlings). Most of the ViCAP team is still pretty one-dimensional, Krendler continues to get way too much screentime, Ardelia is hit-or-miss.

And Rebecca Breeds has to milk every moment and every line for whatever nutritional value it’s worth re: Clarice’s character. Even after seven episodes, I don’t feel as Rebecca’s Clarice has been allowed to fully emerge as the iconic character we know from the books. But I’ll keep on hoping...after all, there are at least three episodes to go!

[maxwell-grant]

On The Shadow’s “new” backstory

Poke around any discussion of The Shadow and the movie in particular and you’re gonna find a lot of contention regarding the movie’s biggest shift from the source material, that was inventing a whole new backstory for the character where, prior to being The Shadow, he used to be a murderous warlord on Tibet who was kidnapped by monks and forced to undergo redemption and put his skills to fight evil. 

It was not a popular decision at the time, to put it mildly. It didn’t do anything to improve the film (that text crawl really shoots the entire film in the foot), it soured a lot of fan opinions on the whole thing, and yet it’s become such a fixture of every story told with the character since then, that odds are most people think this is just what he always like, that this lip-service about redemption and being a former bastard turned hero was always what the character “was about”. 

I have some complicated thoughts on it and how it’s affecte Shadow stories since then, most of whom are negative, but the thing is, I get where it’s coming from. I get why they felt the need to change his origin like that, and why it’s stuck around. 

In the pulps, The Shadow’s backstory was, to sum it up, that he was a spy who went to war, learned a lot of skills and did a lot of things, and then pivoted to fighting crime in the late thirties. That was the backstory of most 30s American pulp heroes, actually, give or take a couple of differences. And for a pulp hero, it works. But modern audiences have been taught to expect more.

The movie, in trying to repackage the character for a modern audience, in turning The Shadow into a superhero so he could survive in a 90s blockbuster landscape, needed an appropriately punchy superhero backstory. Superhero backstories tend to be, in general, all about a dramatic hook that simplifies their motivations, powerset or life stories into a one-sentence pitch. Batman lost his parents in a brutal mugging as a child and swore to stop that from happening to others. Spider-Man’s uncle died because of his irresponsibility. Ben Grimm gained superpowers from space rays like his friends, except he got turned into a deformed rock monster who can never look normal again. Bruce Banner got caught in an atomic blast that made him into an unkillable rage monster. A dramatic transgression happened, they must correct it by becoming dramatic figures themselves.

They’ve made 3 John Wick movies with little more motivation to the central character other than “they killed his dog in the first movie”. That’s not a dismissal, it’s just effective storytelling. We don’t need more motivation for John Wick, we don’t need Batman flashbacks in every film, we get a one-sentence hook for a tangible, grounded motivation that lets the characters hit the ground running. “Used to be a savage murderous warlord, now applies said savagery to killing criminals” is a simple, easily understood pitch that’s considerably more dramatic than his former backstory. It works as a superhero backstory, and you can argue it’s even somewhat thematically fitting, since “a villain who turns evil against evil” has been part of The Shadow’s concept from day one. 

So what’s the problem with it?

Well, for one, The Shadow is not a superhero. He doesn’t look like them, he doesn’t act like them, he doesn’t live in their world. They can try and turn him into one, and they have done that several times, but the character’s core traits, central appeal and identity are not only considerably older than the superhero, they run directly counter to what defines a superhero. The movie that tried turning him into a superhero was a box office and critical failure, and the Dynamite comics have largely just succeeded at keeping the character in the fringes of the public eye and nothing more. If turning The Shadow into a superhero was intended to revitalize his success to modern audiences, it clearly hasn’t worked in over two decades, despite superheroes being more popular than ever before. It’s kept him on little more than life support.

And two, one of the very problems of trying to turn The Shadow into a superhero, and give him an ultra-dramatic superhero backstory pitch, is because it runs counter to a cornerstone of The Shadow’s appeal: the mystery. Superheroes have to pull double duty in being both the impressive, great warriors and forces of change within a story, as well as being our relatable, POV protagonist whose struggles we relate to. The Shadow, in the pulps, split that balance, between himself, and the agents and protagonists of any given Shadow story. @oldschoolcrimefighters  has brilliant writings on The Shadow and his agents that inspired me to do this blog in the first place and you should all read, and I’m going to quote this one in particular: 

“..modern storytelling focuses more on characterization rather than plot. I think a lot of creators come at The Shadow with that in mind, and with a mindset built on other comics and properties: the titular character is the one to focus on. And the radio show, movie(s), and comics – the most readily available mediums for research – don’t do much to disabuse them of this idea.

So creators shine the spotlight on The Shadow. They try to humanize him, make him into someone we the readers will empathize with and relate to and root for and all that jazz. They give him motivations and backstories and banter, a token romantic interest (Margo) and sometimes sidekick (usually Moe) to bounce exposition off of and provide comic relief. 

The Shadow doesn’t take kindly to spotlights. And even if he did, let’s be real, he’s not the most relatable dude. He’s a power fantasy. (And there’s nothing wrong with that.)

Whether or not he should be humanized at all is a touchy subject – I personally think the pulps portray him as a far more empathetic, fallible, playful being than people give them credit for. The thing is, when the pulps humanize him, it’s in a particular context. It’s in his relationships with other characters – especially the supporting cast – that his humanity shines.”

And that brings to the third problem: The Shadow doesn’t need a backstory that takes up so much screentime and focus. It has never factored into what made the character popular in his prime. In the pulps, we jumped right into his presence in the lives of others and his adventures, with only very sparse information about his past delivered every couple dozen books or so. It took over 131 novels for the name “Kent Allard” to even show up with a “proper” backstory, and even then, it consisted of little more than stuff we’d already been told prior about him (he was in the war, he used to be a spy, he traveled around the world with false names). And after a couple dozen stories, Kent Allard appeared less and less, about as often as the fake identity of Henry Arnaud, to the point the final Gibson stories omit him all together and even point to Lamont Cranston as the “true” identity of The Shadow. Kent Allard was just a name he went by a few times, and nothing more.

The most popular version of the character by far, the radio show, didn’t even have that. We knew nothing about the radio Shadow’s backstory other than some of his travels in the past he’d mention on certain episodes and what the opening narration told you. He was our POV protagonist in those episodes far more so in the pulps, and yet, clearly they must have been doing something right, if audiences never once missed the fact that they knew next to nothing about who he used to be before.

The very reason The Shadow became a character in the first place was because of popularity. It was because listeners tuning in to Detective Story Hour found themselves faced with the sibilant, cruel, snake-like whispery taunts of a narrator who talked and acted like no one they had heard announce other radio shows, who was easily the most interesting part of the shows he announced, and whose voice and personality held them in such fascination, even when he was literally nothing but a voice and a personality, that they started demanding to hear more of him, asking for stories starring this dark prince of radio that lived so vividly in their brains, that they didn’t notice, or care, that such stories about him didn’t exist yet. 

And when he was turned into a crimefighting character, his backstory was built in a way that allowed Gibson and any future writers to play around with and insert events and adventures as they saw fit. His adventures with the Tsar in Russia, his travels to India, Africa, Tibet, his war experiences, unrecorded adventures with allies and agents and villains of any kind, his post-war travels as Kent Allard, whatever happened in the years between his crash in the Yucatan and his arrival in America. Hell, if you want to have a period where he really loses it and does immoral things he isn’t proud of, there’s any number of periods you can insert mistakes and bad decisions that would define his actions years down the lane. It was a sandbox of any possibilities, grounded to a strong character who we could follow into any adventure because we’d be interested in learning more about him. 

A good backstory helps, and The Shadow’s motivation was grounded to it, but it was never a necessary component to his popularity. It was never something that needed much focus beyond the sparse information. When handled poorly, a backstory only really threatens to taint that appeal, and that’s what happened.

The “hook” that got audiences to pay attention to The Shadow was his sinister personality and charismatic cruelty. That was what they came for. What got them to stay, and read the stories and form lifelong devotions to the character and his adventures, was discovering that this personality belonged to a character who was, utterly, on the side of good, who used his skills and powers of great villainy to protect innocents, to help and uplift people just like the readers and listeners. That dual nature was a big part of why The Shadow was so enduring and popular in his prime, part of what set him apart from all of his contemporaries and imitators. 

It’s hardly much of a contrast, hardly much of a fascinating and layered character that we want to learn about or spend time with, if he was just always a horrible villain who is only marginally less horrible now, is it? A Shadow who used to be every bit the horrible villain he looks and acts like isn’t really that interesting, it’s just what you’d expect from him at first glance. What’s the point of caring about a man trying to regain his humanity, if we never get to see much of that humanity in the first place? What’s the point of even going into his past if we know all about it?

What’s the point of taking this backstory that was all about open possibilities for storytellers, all about covering the intricate life of a complex and strong character, to reduce it into a quick, punchy one-sentence summation that simply sets down a baseline for all future stories to repeat ad nauseum?

It’s not that I don’t think you can tell stories about The Shadow’s backstory, quite the opposite. It’s not that I don’t think the character having a strong “hook” for audiences is unneccessary (he already has). And it’s not that I don’t think he needs a motivation (he already has). But I have to ask:

What’s the point of shining a spotlight on a shadow, if not to eliminate it?

[wonderfulworldofmichaelford]

Michael in the Mainstream: The Dark Knight Trilogy & Its Negative Impact on the Superhero Genre

Superhero movies have come a very long way in the past couple of decades, cementing themselves as a genre unto themselves rather than the odd action movie here or there. Almost every year a few new ones of varying quality pop up that incite equal parts excitement and derision. It’s definitely a genre people feel very strongly about, but even people who tend to not love superhero films will admit that Christopher Nolan’s Dark Knight trilogy is fantastic.

From 2005 until 2012, Nolan reinvisioned Batman in a way that grounded the character in reality. There’s no fantastical elements, there’s no insane science, there’s no superpowers… Everything in these films could happen in the real world. In a post-Batman & Robin world, this was seen as a breath of fresh air, and the critics loved it. In particular, The Dark Knight helped to usher in the modern age of superhero films, releasing the same year the MCU kicked off and widely being hailed as one of the greatest films of all time. That’s right, not even superhero films, films period. These films were impressive, groundbreaking, and… they fundamentally ruined superhero movies for quite a while.

Look, I don’t particularly hate these films. I think all of them are pretty good, in their own ways. But they have a lot of glaring issues that really hamper them a fair bit and yet, somehow, they became the blueprint that studios decided to look at for what they thought a successful superhero movie should be. Nolan’s films are serious, brooding, dark, and lack the whimsy and creative insanity that makes comics such a fun and engaging medium, and I think this right here is what has hurt comic book movies the most over the past decade. These are films that feel absolutely ashamed to be comic book movies, and they desperately want to seem like they’re “mature” and for “adults.” And, unfortunately for the rest of us, this shame translated over into a lot of other films, something we’re only just now recovering from.

Looking at the greatest strength of the trilogy shows this issue pretty well, that being the villains. Nolan’s films gave us truly iconic portrayals of characters like Bane, Joker, and Scarecrow, and you’re not gonna hear me say much bad about them. Cillian Murphy, Liam Neeson, Tom Hardy, Anne Hathaway, Aaron Eckhart, and Heath Ledger all do fantastic jobs as the insidious rogues of Batman. But the issue I have is that by grounding these characters in a realistic setting like this, it kind of misses the point. Joker isn’t using exploding cakes and laughing gas, Ra’s al Ghul isn’t an immortal warrior, Bane isn’t a drugged-up super soldier… They’re all just Guys. They’re Guys With Gimmicks, yes, but at the end of the day they aren’t what should be looked at as the be-all, end-all of the character’s portrayals.

And yet everyone acts like no one should ever play Joker again, because Heath Ledger’s Joker was just so good, guys! And he was good, but I don’t think Ledger’s Joker should be the absolute final Joker ever. Quite frankly, I prefer Phoenix’s Joker, because even if that version is also in a rather grounded film missing the overt weirdness of comics for the most part, he still dresses in a colorful costume, acts weird, tells jokes, and is in general more Jokery. Out of all of these villains, I think Bane and Scarecrow at least come within the ballpark of being close to how they should be, but Scarecrow is horribly underutilized and Bane is given a rather undignified sendoff.

Then there are the bigger issues. Batman himself is really downplayed throughout the trilogy, getting fairly little screentime compared to villains and side characters. This was a huge point of contention when The Dark Knight Rises came out, with most of the film featuring Bruce Wayne, and in hindsight it highlights how unwilling Nolan was to engage with the comic book trappings of what he was adapting. I like Christian Bale a lot, he’s a great actor, but I don’t think he really carries any of the films; in fact, it’s usually the villains carrying the movies. Bale is certainly not as bad as Val Kilmer in the role of Wayne/Batman, but he’s no Keaton, he’s no Clooney, he’s not even an Affleck. A lot of the time, he also just feels like… a Guy. And Batman should not ever, ever just be a Guy.

But perhaps the most egregious fault of the films is what it did to Gotham City itself. In Burton’s films, you really get a feel for the Gothic atmosphere of the city with how it’s designed, and this goes for Batman: The Animated Series too. And even the more cartoonish, colorful Gotham of Schumacher’s films pops and leaves an impact. But Nolan’s Gotham? It’s very much just a City. There is nothing distinct about Nolan’s Gotham, it’s literally just a generic city, and if you even have the faintest knowledge of Batman you will know that Gotham is not just a city. Gotham is pretty much a character itself, a dark, imposing landscape in which Batman does battle with his costumed foes. Every other adaptation I can think of knows to make Gotham feel unique and distinct, but this one just absolutely drops the ball. You might as well just have the city be New York if you’re going to put no effort into giving it personality.

And that all brings me to this: every reviled superhero movie of the past decade, from F4ntastic to The Amazing Spider-Man to Dawn of Justice, all have their genesis in Nolan’s trilogy. He laid the groundwork for these films to exist, and a large majority of the blame needs to be put on Nolan for sapping the fun out of comic book movies. Now, to be totally fair to Nolan, he’s not entirely responsible for what happened to the comic book film landscape; prior to him, the X-Men film series was giving all of the heroes dark costumes and being a bit more serious. But despite those films playing a bit of a part, there’s one major reason I don’t fault them nearly as much: The X-Men films never once felt ashamed to be comic book movies.

You have to understand, people loved grit and edginess in the 90s and had just violently rejected Batman & Robin a few years prior to the original X-Men film, so it’s hard to really fault it for wanting to avoid being too campy. But much like Blade, the films never tried to act like they weren’t still crazy comic book films. Scott still has eye lasers, Mystique is still blue, Nightcrawler looks like a demon, there are Sentinels and Apocalypse and even Dazzler shows up at one point! The X-Men franchise wasn’t always good, but it managed to balance between being silly and taking itself seriously pretty well for the most part. Magneto is still a Holocaust survivor, his relationship with Xavier still has impact, there are still emotional moments here and there, but then you also have Deadpool movies and the multiple comic book style retcons to the timeline that leave the continuity a mess, and something about that just feels right. And all that makes Logan less egregious despite being the sort of brooding, angsty superhero drama Nolan would make, because even if it is those things, it still centers around a dude with metal claws coming out of his hands trying to stop his best friend from wiping out everyone with psychic seizures. Nolan could never make this superhero film.

Nolan’s films, on the other hand, did. These films did not feel like they wanted to be comic book movies, they felt like they wanted to be serious crime films but Nolan was stuck with Batman so he just mashed the two together. And honestly, I’d probably be more forgiving if it weren’t for the hugely negative impact these films and their critical success had on the superhero genre even until this day. The first decade of superhero films as a major contender in cinema were colored by these films. People outright balked at silliness in superhero movies for quite some time, with a lot of criticism levied at the early phases of the MCU for being too goofy; in fact, at times it seemed as if the MCU was going a bit too far in the goofy direction without striking the proper balance, with films like Age of Ultron having most of its tension defused by constant wisecracks. And on the DC side, Nolan’s grounded approach lead to Zack Snyder’s flaccid filmmaking with dark coloration, moody atmosphere, and not a shred of joy to be found. Nolan is essentially the peak of dark, grounded superhero films, and Snyder is the nadir, but Snyder’s awful DC films wouldn’t exist if not for Nolan.

It was a slow crawl getting to what superhero movies should be. Guardians of the Galaxy and Ant-Man were films tossed out only when Marvel was certain they could take risks, because absurd concepts like those would just not have been able to survive if not for years of good will beforehand. That’s not even getting into some of the more bonkers elements of later films, such as Ego the Living Planet and basically everything about Doctor Strange. In fact, Doctor Strange, for all its issues, is still a massive step forward for a genre that outright rejected magic for a long time, instead for a time turning Thor and his costars into a cast of hyper-advanced aliens, with later films having to clarify that there is magic and zombies and so on. The recent WandaVision was able to further clarify this by making Wanda unambiguously magic and not an evil Nazi science experiment.

Superhero animation didn’t suffer quite so much, but that’s mostly because, much like comics, animation is still seen as “kid’s stuff” by way too many people. And even then, they didn’t escape the shadow of Nolan totally unscathed; one need only look into the infamous Bat Embargo, which limited Batman villains so there could only be one given incarnation of said character in media. For instance, the Scarecrow being in Batman Begins meant he could not appear in the animated series The Batman. This lead to such things as no Batman characters appearing in Justice League Unlimited. It was truly a stupidly frustrating time to be a Batman fan when some of his most iconic foes were relegated to only certain appearances because it “might confuse kids.”

Let me again clarify this: I mostly like the Nolan films. I usually like Nolan, though he has become unbearably, obnoxiously pretentious these days. I think a lot of elements of them are great, I feel like they mostly have strong villains, and I don’t disagree that The Dark Knight is a fantastic film. But the thing is these are only good as AU stories, as their own thing; they should not be the template every superhero movie should follow, or any superhero movie for that matter, because they lack the ability to engage with the things that make people love comics in the first place. People love wacky, off-the-wall concepts, superpowered aliens, magic, talking animals, evil living planets, alcoholic ducks, and all that fun stuff.

People desperately want the fun, camp, and wacky stuff back in comic book films, as the success of the goofier DC films like Aquaman, Shazam, and Birds of Prey as well as the success of shows like Doom Patrol in comparison to the critical and audience revulsion of Snyder’s films, with Shazam in particular giving us such bonkers concepts as an entire family of superpowered children and Mr. Mind, the evil alien caterpillar. Thor: Ragnarok and the Guardians of the Galaxy films have become some of the most beloved MCU movies despite being weird, wacky, and wholly embracing the joy of comics to the point the latter films feature Howard the Duck and the aforementioned Ego alongside bizarre characters like Rocket Raccoon, Groot, and Taserface. And the thing with all of these films is that they’re able to balance the weirdness and wackiness of comics without losing sight of human emotion, moving storytelling, and drama. They’re both fun and deep, goofy and yet meaningful. This is what comics are, and what they should be, and anyone who thinks comics should be grim and gritty really needs to think about why they think an entire genre needs to be colored in with only the dullest colors.

I think what I’m trying to say here is this: Make a Detective Chimp movie, you cowards.

[lexicals]

Liner notes for An Echo, An Answer

Okay let's give this a go I guess? I may add more to this if I remember things too lol

Fair warning this is an exceedingly long post. It has ~subheadings~ (ooh). These cover: 

Fun Facts

Notes about mira

Notes on actual writing/plot

Post-canon tidbits (to be supplemented by actual post-canon oneshot coming maybe not soon but definitely at some point probably)

Needless to say this contains some BIG OL’ SPOILERS. Please enjoy o:

Some general Fun Facts™:

When I posted the first few chapters of this fic, I didn't have a fucking clue where it was going. I didn't even know how kravitz died until I'd already posted like 10 chapters lmao. This was a stressful way to write and I am never doing that again

In terms of inspo, I remember there being a fic in which taako was a ghost and kravitz was a medium (if anyone knows what fic this is PLEASE tell me I cannot find it) and I think I subconsciously took inspiration from this. Also I’d already written a vampire au and I wanted more undead boyfriend shenanigans, I looove playing with the liminal aspects of kravitz being a dead-but-not-dead character

There was a goof version of this fic where kravitz wasn't from the 1900s at all and died in like. The early 2000s or something. He died having come back from/at a costume party, people assumed he was an actual ye olde victorian ghost, and he decided to just lean into it. Cue fake accent. This was scrapped mainly because I loved the ‘sleepy hollow’-esque man-out-of-time shenanigans way too much and also because I know very little about the early-2000s US but do you know what I do know a moderate amount about? 1900s england

I have not read the cask of amontillado and I did not know what it was until seeing the memes, which was after I wrote the basement body twist. I just wanted to have a cheesy secret basement behind a bookcase c'mon it's a murder mystery in an old spooky house let me have this

Anyone who's followed my content for a while probably knows that I'm a big trans kravitz stan, but I dithered over making him trans in this fic a Lot. This was mostly down to self-doubt abt a story ft. a trans man living as his preferred gender in that time period would be deemed "unrealistic" but in the end I said fuck it I want this & I think that was the correct move. Also I read a fair bit about absolute legend dr james barry & that made me a bit more confident about committing to the decision bc these people did exist & they deserve their rep

You may notice that all of the major OCs created for this fic are women. This was an accident but also I stand by it bc I think it helps to balance out the fact that so much of the ‘screentime’ is being dominated by the male leads (inc. angus, who probably has the 3rd most screentime after taako & krav). They’re also all just, absolutely indomitable people. I have a type when it comes to OCs. Speaking of:

Notes on mira:

Mira was very much a character created to serve a purpose, but she ended up becoming a lot more than that and I'm glad people warmed up to her while reading as much as I did while writing. She wasn't going to have anywhere near as much screen time initially as she did in the end but I just loved her & how her relationship with kravitz turned out so much that I ended up writing a bunch of snippets with the two of them just for me, which eventually turned into the fragment chapters because I wanted to share how gd cute they were. Also they ended up being pretty useful for plot too lol

She and flossy were actually kind of the same character to begin with, being kravitz's best friend who he lived with in a kind of lavender marriage with neither of them interested in the other but being happy enough being friends & pretending. I scrapped this pretty early for a lot of reasons but she was still the cause of his death in that version, whether or not she actively killed him. I think there was a gambling debts element at some point

Whatever iteration of the story, she was always going to be the cause of death. I ruled out actual murder pretty early on because I didn't want to tell a story about a gay, black trans man getting murdered in cold blood in his own home, which in a ghost story only really leaves manslaughter, and an accidental killing by a loved one was an idea that followed pretty hot on the heels of that decision - it's very sad, but there's no hatred behind it, so it's not too outright depressing for what is most likely an audience with a high population of marginalised people. That bittersweetness of tone - sad events, but almost always with loving intentions behind or around them - ended up being a real touchstone for the story as a whole

In terms of post-canon content for her, or I guess just stuff that wasn't mentioned in-fic lol, my idea of how her life played out is that she was a pretty solid pillar of her community for a very long time. She took what kravitz said about thinking about what she wanted to add to the world very much to heart, and her answer was for her to be to as many kids and vulnerable people as possible what kravitz was to her. Obviously in the end she poured a lot of herself into helping others out of guilt for having killed a man who she likely remembered a little rose-tinted, but the intent was always there before that too

I don't know how much this came across in the actual text but mira is mixed race (Black/white), though she is Black-coded in terms of how people see and respond to her (please tell me if I’m using these terms incorrectly). I downplayed a lot of the racial elements of this fic bc I don’t feel like it’s my place as a white writer to delve into those areas, but it is an element of her story that ties into anti-miscegenation laws and general societal attitudes and I didn’t just want to entirely gloss over those aspects, bc that wouldn’t be right of me either, so I can only hope the balance ended up working here, and for kravitz’s story too. I did a lot of the writing for mira’s story before even really thinking about this angle which is something I’ve learnt from now bc oh boy should I have thought about it sooner lmao........

Anyway. I love her. I’m very glad that other people love her too

In terms of story writing:

I used to watch A LOT of crime dramas when I was younger, and got so familiar with the structure of them that I used to predict who the killer was going to be about a quarter of the way into them almost every time. Most of the time the killer is someone introduced early on as someone fairly innocuous, but still notable, before the narrative doubles down on a red herring suspect who's proven innocent about 3/4 of the way through, paving the way for the real twist killer. You see where I took my base structure from here

So, mira is introduced early on as someone important to kravitz, who was involved in his life (& death) somehow, but in general she's more suggested to be a victim than a culprit - because of course she is, she’s a child and she loves him! I'm only just realising now that this is a "person of interest" style plot twist here. (Remember what I said about the crime dramas? Just so many of them.) But then in the end she suffered just as much as anyone else, so I guess you could say she's both a victim and a culprit, even by accident.......

Structurally I'm actually really happy with how this turned out. In my head (BECAUSE OH BOY I DID NOT WRITE ANY OF THIS DOWN! Or at least not in a coherent way) the story was split into three mini arcs - the enemies section ending with the kitchen blowout, the friends section ending with the the bay window scene, and the lovers section which covers the rest of the fic. This ended up integrating really well with the main mysteries/pulls of the story - the first being the will-they-won't-they (they will, it’s fanfiction, but how?) of the romance element, and then once that's tapering off starting to dig more into the murder mystery element, which had been more of a subplot up until then, while the romance moves onto the back burner a little bit. The dual genre was an interesting challenge to try to balance and I think it turned out pretty well!

While I'm on this, setting up my breadcrumb trails for the plot twists was simultaneously very stressful and very rewarding. Trying to keep things obvious enough to be noted but subtle enough not to give the whole game away? Gave me so many headaches lmao. I actually thought for sure that some people would twig about the body in the cellar sooner than ch42, but then actually in ch42 way more people picked up on fisher's sniffing around than I expected. Clues are hard!! But at the same time seeing the handful of people who called mira as an adoptive daughter, or the fact that krav fell down the stairs, or the fact that mira's og parents were involved was very cool and it made me very happy to see people picking up the little stuff and putting it together

QUITE A FEW PEOPLE SAID NICE THINGS TO ME ABOUT HOW CLEVER THE PIANO TUNING ANGLE WAS. I CANNOT TAKE COMPLETE CREDIT FOR THIS. IT WAS A PLOT HOLE THAT I SUDDENLY REGISTERED OUT OF NOWHERE WHILE I WAS IN THE SHOWER & THEN ENDED UP WORKING IN SO I GUESS IT TURNED OUT FOR THE BEST & MADE ME LOOK VERY SMART BUT IT WAS AN ACCIDENT

Something else that a couple of people have noted & that I only realised in the process of writing was the fact that a lot of kravitz's ghostliness in this fic has the potential to be read as an allegory for chronic illness/disability. This was something I only caught onto myself while I was writing the scene on the porch at the end of ch42 when I was writing kravitz's dialogue and was like..... oh shit that's a thing huh. Bc he is, y'know, quite literally housebound and limited in what he can do in a lot of ways, which is part of the reason I really tried to hammer home in that chapter that even though the fic ends with him being 'cured' (because that ending was always the intention from day one before I ever thought about this reading), they would have been happy together regardless. Love is not conditional!

Post-canon thoughts:

Taako and kravitz go into the house. Kravitz says oh my god what is that smell. Taako says he made blueberry pie earlier. Kravitz says okay we're putting bedroom fun times on hold I need that RIGHT NOW

Kravitz eats way too much too fast and spends the rest of the afternoon curled up on the sofa with a horrible stomach ache. He is not used to that much rich food. Taako is not impressed with this

He rolls his eyes and they watch a movie and talk instead and get to the bedroom fun times later

On the topic of food you Know krav ends up with a bit of a tummy from taako spoiling him. He looks & feels great and taako loves how comfy he is

Also on the topic of bodies I think krav does a lot of experimenting initially with what feels good now that he has a lot more freedom in presentation. He likes to mess with his hair a lot. Dresses and skirts are still a bad feel but a little makeup is fun sometimes. Kravitz living his best undeath 2k18 (I took so long to finish this fic it’s set 2 years ago now lmaoooo)

Kravitz lets taako drive him somewhere exactly Once before vowing NEVER AGAIN taako's driving privileges are REVOKED kravitz is going to get magnus to teach him to drive instead.

Taako says what the hell are you gonna do if you get pulled over you are a hundred and thirty and also dead you can't get a license. (He could get him a fake one, but he's not going to, because he's being petty about kravitz insulting his driving.) Kravitz says fine show me yours then. Taako says no but kravitz steals it anyway. A minute later he’s produced his own undoubtedly fake license out of nowhere complete with a fake DOB and a very nice picture

Taako says gasp kravitz that's ILLEGAL. Also you know you have to make this picture worse if you want it to be convincing right

Kravitz starts giving angus music lessons. Angus isn’t a natural by any means but he works hard and that gets him a long way

OH ACTUALLY I SHOULD PROBABLY SAY SMTH ABOUT THE REUNIONS HUH. GINNY THESE ARE FOR YOU:

Maybe it's weird to start with barry but the poor man has to have a sit down. He has so many questions. Kravitz what is the afterlife like it's fine you can tell him just give him a hint please and also can he maybe get like. A blood sample or something. No that's not weird it's for science what are you talking about taako bring him back

Kravitz is fully expecting lup to wreck his shit, and she acts like she's going to right up until she's close enough to give him a big ol hug instead. She says she missed him a lot & that he's much nicer to hug now that he's not a freezy boy, and kravitz goes ;_;

It's a very tight hug though. In some ways it is still a punishment

Also could he maybe hook her up with this death goddess of his? Lup would like to be immortal too, kravitz. Kravitz can you get a resume to your boss and could you write lup a reference while you're at it

Angus!! He’s so happy to have his other uncle back!! There’s a new caleb cleveland book he needs to read so they can talk about it!! All of this after a lot of crying and hugging.

I think at some point they do go over to visit mira’s descendants. Taako says hi remember me? I brought my boyfriend to visit! Unnamed great great grandchild #1 is like um he looks kind of familiar. Kravitz says well yes there is kind of a reason for that and it’s because I’m in that picture on the wall over there, hi I’m your great great grandfather nice to meet you

The family is a little weirded out by this at first but eventually they’re like. Well alright I guess do you want a coffee

Kravitz says yes please god do you know how many people keep offering me tea

He babysits for the youngest ones sometimes. The kids love him and the adults are happy to give him stories in exchange for his time, seeing as that’s all he asks for

Taako says ask them for money and contribute to this household kravitz. Kravitz says absolutely not they’re family and you’re already getting my youtube ad revenue

Yes kravitz has a youtube channel and is also very involved in the local music scene. He can’t do anything that would technically be classed as interfering with the flow of the living world but no-one said he can’t anonymously share some of his music here and there

Johann gets him a gig conducting for his orchestra every now and then. Kravitz is fucking ecstatic and finally gets to conduct some of his own pieces in front of an audience. Maybe they actually get to that biography johann mentioned at some point. Idk I haven’t thought about that part too much

Okay I wrote WAY more than I meant to here but I hope at least some of it was interesting and feel free to ask me questions if there are elements I’ve missed off of here that you want to hear more about! (Bearing in mind some of the answers may be “actual post canon content coming soon/later” lol.) As you can tell I have a lot of things to say about this fic & I’m always more than happy to hear that people are interested!! o:

[elixir448]

Good Girls 3x06 Thoughts (Will I ever get these up after the episode? Nope)

Good Girls 3x04 and 3x05 Thoughts Here

So lemme tell you.This post was basically finished and then I accidentally deleted it and have spent the last few hours typing it all out again. I’m just...yeah.

Dean and Au Jus

I know that a lot of people feel that Dean talking about cancer and chemotherapy costs would have been the perfect moment for Beth to scathingly bring up his lie about having cancer. While I acknowledge that it could have worked and all of us have been wanting to see this since he blurted out that he had cancer in season 1, there are a few reasons why I wouldn’t have wanted the issue raised in this scene:

1. I think it would have trivialised the depth of such a betrayal.

2. This scene was about Beth’s reaction to Lucy’s death and having to dig up her body, clean her face with baby wipes and then take a photo of it in order to unlock her phone and convince her kind-hearted boyfriend, who she loved, that she is still alive and wants nothing to do with him. This has nothing to do with Dean or his lies and it has everything to do with Lucy and the weight of her death on Beth’s shoulders. Why should it be about Dean? Despite the fact that he is in the scene, it actually has nothing to do with him.

3. I do wonder if the cancer lie will ever be addressed, mainly because I think Beth felt so guilty over Dean being shot by Rio that she essentially let it slide. Even in 2x05, when she finds out that Dean had multiple affairs rather than just one, she pointedly does not raise it. Perhaps it’s because she only found out about it in the lead up to her confrontation with Rio and Dean in 1x10, so bringing it up would essentially force her to think about Dean being shot before she even had a chance to confront him about it personally. I do think that Beth and Dean are going to go their separate ways this season, romantically I mean. There was some unconfirmed information floating about that the show was looking to cast an actor as young Dean and I think, if that’s true, any flashbacks probably would have been as a prelude to these two ending their romantic relationship for good. If it is true, I’m even more annoyed that the last few episodes couldn’t be filmed. Anyway, the way I see it, when Beth and Dean’s romantic relationship ends as a storyline, I think it will be a decision borne of weariness rather than resentment.

Also, I just need to say that I kind of love that Dean is getting so many scenes with Au Jus and kind of love seeing him with the bird. He seems like such a proud father. I’m more invested in this storyline than I am in the four star hot tubs storyline and Gayle tbh. For now anyway.

The Hills

I’m really starting to understand what Manny meant when he said that he was most interested in what the writers are doing with Stan in this season.

As soon as Stan told Ruby that he might be able to become a cop again, I knew that he wouldn’t return. At least not immediately. There are probably two main reasons that will stop Stan from returning to the police force:

1. Disillusionment with law enforcement. In season 2, we saw Stan being confronted by a federal agent (Turner) who was threatening and absolutely willing to use underhanded tactics, such as false testimonies, to get Stan to do what he wanted.

2. Stan views himself as morally compromised and unfit to protect and serve. He knows that he’ll abuse his position and help Ruby if she needs it again.

Beth actually says to Ruby in this episode that Stan can’t be a cop again. Even though he obviously doesn’t know about this, I can really see the entire situation, and everything that has happened since they robbed Fine and Frugal, lead to a pretty tense conversation between Beth and Stan in the next episode:

Lemme tell you, I gasped when I saw this promo image for 3x07, especially given the fact that Reno has said that we’ll get to see a little of Beth and Stan interacting in this season. It’s actually one of my hiatus wishes and I feel like we’re all anticipating their scenes together. I mean, Beth and Ruby have been best friends since they were teens. Stan and Beth have probably known each other for ages and we saw some tension in the last season, stemming from Ruby’s betrayal of Beth to save Stan. Correct me if I’m wrong but I think the last time we saw these two interact was in season 1, so it’s about time we see them talk face to face.

Of course, it’s been a few episodes since we saw Stan as a security guard in the strip club, so I’m really excited to see what happens there, the introduction of Onyx and more scenes with Krystal. I think Onyx may be introduced in the upcoming episode?

It was also so good to see more of Harry again. Danny Boyd Jr is such a talented and cute little actor. Like, he’s so small!

I LOVED the scene where Ruby points out the reasons why Stan is a cop (protect and serve) at his core. He doesn’t want to be involved with their shady stuff but he always gets dragged in. I would give anything to see a scene where Stan defends Ruby so staunchly to someone because I have no doubt that he would and I need it. Grabby hands.

Mick

Give the guy a hot tub!!!!!!!

I’m telling you. I screamed when Beth blurted out “I have herpes!” Oh my god. I died. Yeah, your husband won’t be happy about it. Nor will your crime husband.

I’m also just going to reiterate that I don’t view any of what Mick’s doing as a betrayal of Rio. What Beth was trying to do in this episode was in an attempt to get the cops off their collective backs and, if he gets a free hot tub out of it, good for him.

I guess we’ll have to see where it all goes but I’m not convinced that Mick is going to betray Rio in some profound way. Hell, I’m not even convinved that Rio doesn’t know about all this.

Beth’s character progression

God, Beth did so much in this episode. She really got down in the dirt herself and dug the dirt away from the Lucy’s body, asked for some wet wipes to clean her face, while trying her best not to be sick, and then took a picture of Lucy’s face. Even thought she has gotten her hands dirty, with regards to her role in the crime world, this is the first scene where she physically gets her hand dirty when she’s not gardening.

@captainallthingspurpleme​ wrote a great short post summarising the girls’ actions in this scene and absolutely nailed it! I don’t want to reiterate because I think it’s worded a thousand times better than I could articulate it.

I think Beth’s breakdown in this episode was so earned. We so rarely see her emotionally lose it, especially not in front of other people. The fact that she’s breaking down in front of Dean of all people, from whom she has been repeatedly proven to be emotionally and intimately removed from, shows how torn up she is over everything that has happened.

Despite this, she somehow manages to process it and file it away and is back to business in her next scene with the girls, where she texts Max, takes charge and tells him to come over in a moment of decisiveness and then deals with him. In the Good Girls 3x02 thoughts post I wrote, I talked a little bit about how ruthlessly pragmatic Beth can be, her ability to process horrible things and compartmentalise and how we see this happen with everyone in her life except for Rio. We’ve seen it after she processed that Dean had cheated on her, when she processed that fact that Mary Pat was extorting them and accepting how similar they were, when she found out about Dean faking cancer and when she processes Turner’s death. She always gets back to business. I think we’ve seen it again in this episode, with regards to Lucy’s death. While I don’t think she’s dealt Lucy’s death mentally, not even a little bit, I do think she has compartmentalised it which is just so Beth, as I point it in that previous post, but it’s underscored as being even more chilling in this episode, particularly with the last shot where she appears to blend into the pitch black behind her:

I’m sure everyone has read it already but @foxmagpie​ wrote a fab post about the lighting of Beth and Rio throughout the episode and how it relates to Beth’s character development so, instead of reiterating her analysis, I’ll just leave a link to it here.

Beth and Rio

I’ve seen that people are displeased with the screentime that Rio has had, which is a totally valid opinion. I’m personally really happy with what’s been happening with his screentime. @pynkhues​ wrote an amazing post during hiatus about why she thought Rio would become a POV character and have more scenes in season 3. She hit the nail on the head! I think the writers have really delivered on this front because Rio does have his own POV now, we’ve seen him interact with his family, we’ve seen him operate outwith the girls, his boys have returned and we’ve had a glimpse into how many people he seems to ‘employ’ and, if Manny is to be believed, we are also going to find out more about the people to whome Rio answers / owes debts to. I’ve been wondering who these people are since he mentioned it. Are they larger scale crime bosses or are they corrupt big wigs in political or federal circles? Does he owe them a debt of money, potentially due to his absence while he was under Turner’s thumb, or have people in the crime world put two and two together and realised who was feeding names to the FBI? I don’t imagine that giving such information to law enforcement goes over well amongst criminals.

I’m going to start by discussing the first scene between these two, which is really weighted. It reminded me so much of 2x07, where Beth and Rio’s feelings, both generally and for each other, bubbled to the surface in a rare moment of emotional honesty.

This scene starts with Rio’s car drawing up and Mick approaching Beth. It’s hilarious to me that Rio decided to wait in the car instead of dealing with her drama (petty AF) but also really emphasises the fact that Rio’s doing his best not to give Beth an inch. He’s trying to maintain the faux gulf that has developed between them. He’s also failing because, let’s be honest, Rio didn’t have to come at all; he could have sent Mick or one of his guys just like he did in the last episode but he didn’t and there are potentially a few reasons for this:

1. It’s possible that Rio anticipated that there might be problems and that he would have to step in to handle it because...well, Beth is his problem to deal with. His rotten egg. Not Mick’s.

2. He definitely knew that Beth would be feeling the weight of Lucy’s death on her shoulders, which I’ll discuss later in this section.

3. Maybe he just wanted to see her, even if he didn’t want to / couldn’t justify speaking with her. There’s something so tragic about the fact that, even if the drop had gone smoothly, Rio would have sat in his car and just taken her in because he can’t help himself.

Also, side note here, but I honestly love that Rio was watching from his car as Beth mouthed off to Mick. It’s so funny!

It was only upon rewatching the episode that I realised it’s actually raining in this scene. When Rio approaches Beth to sit down, at the picnic bench and under the tree, they are both protected from the rain and it kind of makes it seem as though they exist in their own personal bubble, even though Mick is stanidng less than a few feet away from them. Rio clearly brought Mick in an attempt to exert a level of control over his interaction with Beth and also to non-verbally remind her, and himself, that this is just business.

I’d also like to take a minute to discuss the significance of the setting, which is a picnic bench that is not Beth’s backyard but in a separate, meaningless location.

This is the last time Beth and Rio were at a picnic bench:

Compared to this:

God, these two messes are such a mess.

The difference between the two scenes is so stark, including the obvious differences in lighting and their comfort levels with one another. Not to mention the fact that in the image from 2x08, Rio sits on the tabletop in a higher position (which makes sense because Rio retained much of the power throughout season 2, even after Beth took the pills and strong-armed him into a 50/50 deal) but they look at each other directly, unafraid, comfortable and happy. In this scene, Beth and Rio sit on more equal footing but look away from one another in opposite directions, sobered, worn and quiet.

It really highlights the fact that, in season 2, the distance between these two was being abolished but now they’re back to trying to hold one another at arm’s length. It’s clear that they’ve been through too much at each other’s hands.

When Rio sits down, there is a long, weighted silence. Rio adjusts himself on the bench and stares at his lap and waits. This is so important. When Beth eventually breaks the silence by saying (about Lucy) “She was a good person” and sniffling quietly, Rio seems completely unsurprised. He knew she was going to bring up Lucy and her death. He knew and he still let her take the lead. He repeatedly says in this scene that it’s just business and yet his actons suggest otherwise. Why sit next to her, why let her bring up Lucy when you knew she was going to? And perhaps more importantly, why not immediately discuss business? He responds by saying “she seemed like a really sweet girl”. Even though he views ordering Mick to shoot Lucy as business, he doesn’t invalidate how Beth feels about it. In fact, he’s almost gentle with her. He’s been gentle with her in this season but always as a manipulation tactic, always to make her more fearful. But in this scene, he’s honestly gentle and patient with her.

He knows she’s crying in this scene. Her voice breaks, she sniffles, she wipes at her face and he can’t look at her. I think, despite everything, Rio struggles and doesn’t know what to do when Beth is in pain.

In fact, he doesn’t look at her at all until he says “I got my own debts to pay aight” and then “Oh, you still think you get a say in this huh? Nah, see that ship sailed when you put three slugs in me”. It’s so clear that, in this scene, Rio has to summon enough anger to be able to look at the tear tracks on Beth’s face. This is followed by Rio saying “You, me, we”  while still looking at her but then his eyes deviate downwards before he says “It’s just business” because it’s dishonest. It’s such a callback to the scene in Rio’s car in 2x12. This statement also seems pretty out of place in this scene, almost as though Rio’s been thinking too long and hard about it and had to say it in order to convince himself.

Beth seems genuinely hurt (I need to write a separate post all about this) and her eyes flicker over to Mick, absorbing Rio’s non-verbal reminder of their relationship being a business one. She then looks at Rio again and we have a shot of him looking away from her again, rocking his jaw and he almost seems angrier than when he was raising his voice, probably because he knows that he slipped again, despite everything he was saying.

When the sneak peek came out before the episode aired and Rio said, “so who’s the boyfriend?”, I was really confused. I was momentarily transported to fanfic land where Beth meets someone new and Rio is jealous haha. Seriously though, the word sounds so foreign coming out of Rio’s mouth, as the words boyfriend/girlfriend have never been thrown around in conversations between these two. It made me think, and probably made a lot of other people think, about how these two compare to a conventional romantic relationship.

The music is also incredibly weighted in this scene. Loving all the piano they’re using!

Moving on to their final scene in the episode, I love that Beth knows that Rio’s going to be his usual pissy self and want an invoive and then the way he scrutinises it. Omg, it was so cute.

Also excuse me sir but did you just compare your relationship with Beth to that of a boyfriend and a girlfriend? Again, the word boyfriend sounds so foreign and new coming out of Rio’s mouth. When Beth replied  by saying, in a very feminine tone might I add, “he got over it”, I just about died. God, these two messes are using another couple’s relationship to address their own relationship. You bloody messes. I’m shaking my head. And the fact that Rio replies “they always do”, I am shaking my head again. Hahaha. Lol. Imagine these two ever being over each other. They really can’t be compared to other romantic relationships because they’re too stupid.

Also, Beth and Rio are dressed so similarly, all black, in their scenes together but particularly in this last scene.

I think that the way they are positioned is, again, so significant and obviously different to their first scene in the episode. In this final scene, Rio is once again positioned above Beth, standing while she is sitting. In the first scene, he sat down next to her, waited for her to speak and listened but he also lost control, even though Mick was there, and seemed to internally berate himself afterwards for it. Now, Mick is still there but Rio is taking extra precautions by avoiding even sitting down and keeping the interaction as short as possible.  

They are also finally facing one another and Beth has regained the power and confidence she didn’t seem to have in the first scene, even thought she isn’t delivering the full amount of money. Like I said, I think she has processed and compartmentalised Lucy’s death and that possibly has something to do with it, as well as the fact that she probably feels powerful knowing that she’s deceiving Rio.

By having Beth and Rio face one another in this scene, while wearing such similar clothing, it really depicts them as two sides of the same coin, as almost but not quite mirror images of each other, as counterparts.