#the ethics of vegetables

[lordgrimwing]

Food #02

Thranduil glanced down at his cellphone, checking the shopping list once more. Hithundil called him that morning and said her work was wrapping up sooner than planned (a good sign) and rather than cooling her heels in Gondor for the rest of the week, she rescheduled her flight to arrive the day after next so she could spend the extra time with her husband and son (always nice to hear). He suggested having a nice dinner in the garden. She said it sounded lovely. That, of course, led him to where he is now, checking the produce section for fresh green beans and bok choy, phone in one hand, almost full shopping bag hanging from the crook of his elbow, and Legolas’s pale fingers wrapped loosely around his own.

“Daddy?” Legolas asked, tugging on his hand.

“Yeah?” Thranduil said, slipping his phone back into his pants pocket.

“If green beans could feel things, would we still cook and eat them?” He asked with big eyes, a finger coming up to poke at one of the vegetables in question.

Thranduil tilted his head down and hummed in thought as he selected a few packages. “I suppose it depends on if they like getting cooked and eaten.”

The child frowned, turning his fingers to the plaque advertising the beans’ apparently excellent price. Thranduil did most of the general grocery shopping at this store, so he couldn’t reliably confirm or deny if that was actually the case. He set the packages in his bag and led the way out of the produce and toward the dairy aisle for cheese.

“But,” Legolas finally said as his father added cheddar and ricotta to the bag. “How would we know?”

“Know what?” He asked, double-checking the list one more time to verify that was all they needed to get (he almost forgot the ricotta and he’d rather not drive all the way home just to realize he missed something else they needed).

“If green beans like being eaten.”

“These are deep thoughts for a Tuesday, kiddo.” He said while contemplating how one could possibly tell if a vegetable theoretically didn’t like being used as food. “I’m not sure how I’d know. Do you have any idea?”

Legolas nodded as they began the trek back across the large store. “I think,” He started and had to interrupt himself with a deep breath. “I think if the beans taste bad, then they don’t want to be eaten, or they don’t like how they were cooked and they’re upset about it, and it’s bad to eat them then because they won’t like it, but if they taste good, then it’s good to eat them because they want to be eaten and it’d be rude to just cook them and then not do what they want. And I think that if they want to get eaten, but nobody does, then they cry about it a little because they are so sad that they have to keep waiting.”

“Crying green beans?” Thranduil repeated as they walked past the racks of seasonal clothes that always filled the space before the checkout aisle. “I don’t think I’ve ever seen that. Does that mean they don’t actually feel anything or just that we always eat them right when they want it?”

Legolas’s feet stopped moving, bringing Thranduil to a very abrupt stop in the middle of the moderately busy lane. He turned to the side to look at him, wondering what had so completely caught his attention, but quickly dropped to a crouch when he saw the tears starting to gather in his bright eyes.

“What’s up, buddy?”

Legolas could never be described as a child particularly prone to crying. He rarely cries over bruises or bumps or any of his many scraped knees; however, he sometimes cries when he thinks a part of life was too unfair for people to live with (like the way he couldn’t pick up every frog he saw because some wild animals get really stressed when held, and things on his hands could hurt a frog if he didn’t wash up first. He cried for quite a while when his dad explained that to him—frogs were his favorite). 

Without answering, Legolas reached into the canvas bag and pulled out one package of green beans. He pointed to one corner, and there inside the bag, just big enough to see, was a single droplet of water. 

“They just want someone to eat them,” The boy said, a faint tremor in his soft voice as he offered the sad green beans up to his father. 

“Oh, come here,” Thranduil said to the beans, taking them from his son. Ignoring the surprised glances they were garnering from the other shoppers, he spoke directly to the weeping beans. “I promise that when we get home, I’ll sautee you up real nice with some peppers and rice and watercress, and Legs and I will eat you right up for dinner. It’ll be the best thing you ever experience.”

Legolas giggled a little at the impassioned declaration, which Thranduil took as a sign that the green beans were mollified and he slipped them back into the bag. “I think that’s all settled.” He said.

Legolas nodded, his long pale hair dancing with the fervor of his agreement. “Green beans are always happy when you cook them.”

“Aww,” Thranduil said, standing and resuming the walk to the register. “Thanks.” 

[featherlesswings]

I find it really funny that so many people thought Izzy was homophobic, but really he was just the Fun Police.

[deepseacityunderground]

i think that veganism as a political movement has a lot of interesting things to say about how food agriculture has been shaped by consumerism and the way its alienated the average westerner from food production especially around meat. its a cruel cruel industry for everyone involved and it sucks.

unfortunately it also overwelmingly falls victim (like a lot of other socially progressive political movements lol) to a complete inability or perhaps a refusal to engage with rural indigenous communities especially in the global south. which is ironic because (like a lot of other socially progressive political movements) much of their theoretical framework for reforming society Depends on rural indigenous communities especially in the global south ^.^

[screambirdscreaming]

Something funny on the discourse axis of "is it ethical to kill animals for food" / "can't you just eat vegetables," is that few things in this world make a person so strongly feel the emotion of "wow I could eat that animal in particular," as trying to grow vegetables and having them be eaten by a varmint*

*generally I don't approve of categorizing animals as pests or vermin. Like as a concept I think that leads quickly to bad places in terms of how you relate to your local ecology. And generally to resolve a conflict of this sort with an animal you probably have to change how you're relating to the local ecology (see: integrated pest management). BUT that being said. Sometimes you make eye contact with a rabbit in your garden,, after bemoaning the nipped off remnants of your soon-to-be-ripening vegetables,,,

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[omi-papus]

Over bones Part (1/2)

She had suddenly tensed up, showing a horrified expression on her face, and shuffled away from him, as much as she could in the minuscule bed they were in, turning her back and curling tightly into a ball. This left him dumbfounded after he got over being startled by the sudden action, especially after she had gotten so close to his face. The fingers that had brushed his cheek suddenly tore their nails into him slightly when she yanked her hand away as she changed her disposition seemingly out of nowhere again. "Again" because just a quarter of a second before her attitude had shifted also, from the somewhat exasperated fondness he could detect on her expression, that over the course of ten point three seconds distorted into half-lidded eyes and heavier breathing, the color of her face darkening slightly.

He cut himself off, having been speaking about how he hoped he could... that he could protect her, once he had the capacity to, once he better controlled the body, or even if, in a frankly fantastical scenario, managed to obtain an architect vessel again. She had just fought off a man who was apparently a victim of the original owner of his body. Whose company he had apparently destroyed through his connections over some petty disagreement. He felt tempted to condemn Alan Whelihan. His apparent long list of enemies and history of pain through both major and minor offenses that while not directly violent, caused so much hurt that he had to wonder how he lived with it. More so, he was upset at now being forced to live with the consequences of his actions, but he realized, in a way, it worked out. He had caused infinitely more pain than probably any other individual ever could. In reality, the consequences he faced were utterly disproportionate. And it did not help when Robin actively prevented him from suffering them. She was strong. The most physically adept human he had yet to meet, and she guarded him from the assault with thankfully minimal injury.

Still... he could barely stand it, just the idea of her being in danger because of him tore him apart, and he would prefer she just left him to his fate and protected herself. He knew she wouldn't do that. He even knew that she wasn't even like that because of him, she would put herself in harm's way seemingly for no reason. So he wished that at least he could aid her in some greater way when it came to such things. For now, all he could do revolved around his managerial position. Ensuring her work went smoothly and that she was treated with as much dignity as her performance deserved. But still, he wanted to be of more use to her, and it was when he dropped her off at her minuscule, borderline uninhabitable apartment, where she, like usual, invited him to come in and rest with her, did he begin to express all these things to her. And at some point during his ramblings, he stopped mid-word as he felt her fingertips trace his jaw and her face approaching his own. Her eyes switched rapidly between his own and something slightly lower. She was warm, and her breath smelled a type of rancid that he has begun to have some sort of familiar fondness for. And even faster, her eyes flared open, her whole body retracted, and she faced away from him, hugging herself tightly.

Alan: Robin?

She did not respond, she did start trembling, and the red tint could now be seen on her shoulders.

Alan: Robin, what is happening? Are you concussed? Does something hurt?

He sat up with his usual difficulty and placed his hand on her arm; she fully spasmed, and right then she jumped off the bed and walked to lock herself in the bathroom. He called out for her again, compleatly unable to imagine why she would suddenly be acting this way.

[jackawful]

I'm not hyperinvested in trying to get other people to to be vegan or vegitarian (mostly because meat/not meat isn't a reliable determinant of how environmentally destructive a food is) but I definitely have the least respect for meat eaters who are unable or unwilling to confront that their meat involves killing an animal. I don't think it's ethical for someone to eat meat and look away from how it got on their plate. Like regardless of physical access or ability, if you don't have the emotional fortitude to hunt and butcher an animal, you shouldn't be eating meat.

[turtlesandfrogs]

The amount of misinformation in this reblog chain is astounding.

0. There are legitimate reasons why people might not want to consume honey. However, the vast majority of a commercial apiary's income comes from pollination services (which everyone who eats from the grocery store should be consuming because all of you eat fruit, riiiiight?), and a lot of "honey" in stores has been found to not actually be honey (or is very adulterated) so I personally find it a moot issue.

Quinoa does not come from child slave labor, and the whole article that kicked off everyone saying quinoa was bad for the farmers was retracted, because it was wrong. The farmers were eating less quinoa- because they could afford a greater diversity of food. The quinoa boom was good for the poorest segments of the exporting countries. Also, the boom is long over, and vegans have never been the primary consumers of quinoa, because there just aren't that many. Also, the vast majority of agave goes to making tequila. And for the syrup, again the number of people who are eating it are doing it because of misinformation about it's fructose content and they think it's healthier than honey and/or hfcs, not because they're vegan. I don't drink tequila (or use agave syrup), but there are people working on this issue and you can find out more by looking up bat safe tequila.

Honey is not inherently murder, though there are practices in commercial apiaries that aren't the best for honeybees or native bees. They do move hives across great distances for pollination services, and they think this is why diseases have been able to spread so easily. Requeening is a thing that is done though as a common practice, and when seeing a colony as a super organism I can see why that give some people pause.

Metaphorically I guess it could be described as puking their guts up, but it's what they do. If you're going to go against commercial apiaries, there's several things you could point out (transmission of diseases, encouraging the continued monocropping, competing with native bees, etc, etc), but this isn't a great one to go with.

Honey maker? Come on. Please read up on beekeeping from actual bee keeping sources so that you can make better arguments. This is an embarrassment & falsehood, and only serves to push people further away from veganism.

Gemstone-gynoid is correct.

The queen is not actually outside, except on the flight to get fertilized and start a new hive, or when swarming. The queen stays in the hive the vast majority of her life. And they don't always leave, sometimes they just die due to mismanagement, bad weather, disease, etc. Also swarming is one of their methods of reproducing, and beekeepers 100% go to efforts to prevent swarming from happening.

I wouldn't say they're consenting in any meaningful way, since to harvest honey you have to smoke the bees to make them placid. It's not like they let you just take it. Their objection is instinctual and quite obvious. Being gentle and careful helps, a lot, but do you really think that happens in a capitalistic, for-profit setting?

Bees manufacture honey from NECTAR, not pollen, though pollen is also an important part of their diet.

Also, people usually harvest honey in the fall, and then feed the bees with sugar through the winter until they're able to start making honey again (at least on commercial farms.). Even when we're not taking it, they don't always make "more of it than they'd ever need". Bees have good years and bees have bad years, and sometimes even when people haven't harvested any, the bees run out of food before flowers start blooming again. Harvesting the excess honey prevents them from swarming and starting a new hive, having extra honey sticking around does not harm bees (it's a whole fascinating process, very much worth looking into).

They do make an excess in the flowering season, but that evolved as a way to make it through the winter. As said above, some times winters are colder or longer than usual, and sometimes bee hives have to be fed to make it. Also, depending on which part of the world you are in, honey bees are a non-native species that is directly competing with native species and sometimes spreading diseases to them. There are papers on this from plenty of non-vegan sources. Here's one source: https://www.xerces.org/blog/want-to-save-bees-focus-on-habitat-not-honey-bees

vegans make peace with honey

no shut up do it

[stellacadente]

house s3 is so funny. yes house is an ass. yes of course i'd help an addict over a cop. also house and wilson literally help a guy kill himself so he can give his son his heart and cuddy just kinda glares at house for 5 seconds and that's it

[townpostin]

Delhi High Court Rejects Plea for Euthanasia in Vegetative State Case

Court Cites Legal Limitations in Refusing to Consider Passive Euthanasia for Long-Term Patient The Delhi High Court’s decision highlights the complex legal and ethical considerations surrounding end-of-life care in India. NEW DELHI – A plea to establish a medical board to investigate the possibility of euthanasia for a man in a prolonged vegetative condition was denied by the Delhi High Court. In…

[accipitae]

If you click on the original post, the tags make it clear that this isn't talking about grocery store eggs, it's talking about backyard chickens and the people who think even that is exploitation. You're having a whole different conversation than the other people on this post.

anti-egg vegans are always a hoot. like, she’s not using it. it’s not fertilized. it’s going to rot and attract predators. you want me to just throw it in the trash??

[bfoxy]

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With a passion for fashion and design history, I always believed that owning a boutique was woven somewhere into my destiny. I wanted to make sure that my business gave back to the community that creates it, so I decided to trade fairly with small, independent family businesses in Nepal, India, Turkey, Indonesia, New Zealand and the UK. I prioritize ethical trade and eco-friendly practices in my…

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[maastrichtiana]

no when they tried imitation rhino horn and elephant ivory it just legitimated the genuine article as a luxury good, and now there’s a two tier supply chain, same thing with shark fin

the illegal wildlife trade is a multibillion dollar market

i know this is objectively really bad cause it's an endangered species but it's also kind of sick as hell

also like...this guy successfully cloned an endangered species and used it in a breeding program. that's insane

and what's more is, the sheep is supposed to be a substitute for an endangered species that trophy hunters can hunt, so like...wouldn't this help protect the species from poaching?

[davestone13-blog]

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