#the duffers are good writers

[in-deep]

Mike is straight. Byler endgame would come out of nowhere for his character.

I'm getting really frustrated with some reasons people use to rebut byler proof... The main one being this one.

I could argue extensively that Mike is queer. It is written subtextually all over the show - Mike is not like other straight characters in the show, and there are multiple parallels to queer-coded characters. If you took off your heteronormative rose-tinted glasses, you might be able to pick up on some of what the show is showing you, rather than explicitly telling you.

But even if he was explicitly shown to be straight! Why is it that in media queer characters always need to be explicitly queer from the beginning? Otherwise it's bait or fan service or bad writing? Queer people are allowed to discover themselves and figure themselves out! In fact that in and of itself is great representation! Mike's queer story would probably be really relatable to many!

PLUS! Do NOT try and tell me that Mileven were built up romantically in a natural way. First time I watched the show (January! I was very late to it ahah) Mileven actually shocked me a little - I knew they were going to date later, but it felt so random and almost a little like they didn't know what they were doing. I personally felt like they only kissed because Mike felt like that's what he was meant to do.

Lucas teasing him about only talking about El (when really Mike only talked about El as a means to get to Will, his main priority). Nancy telling Mike she thought he liked her (and Mike immediately denies it). El asking if he'll be like her brother (no. it's different... i mean, i guess its not). And then he kisses her after that?

Quite frankly, if Mike and Eleven are endgame they wrote them so weirdly. Like made some really weird writing choices (bad ones) that are too many to even get to in this post, but I am working on a really lengthy analysis on the bad writing of Mike/El (and why that's so brilliant).

AND!!!! Mike and Will are the classic example of the childhood friends to lovers trope. One common example of this trope is shown in character A being in love with character B (and has been for a while). Character B usually has another love interest, character C who is either mysterious or popular. Usually a scene where character B says "oh. A and I are just friends." while we see character A looking sad. Character B & C have some sort of relationship, but eventually it fails and in the midst of that relationship falling a part, character B realises that character A has been there all along.

Now, I personally believe Mike has feelings for Will and has had them for a while. But, even if he didn't. Don't try and tell me this wouldn't be completely fine for a straight couple. But suddenly, when they're queer, it's poor writing and fan service. Yet again, queer media is held to much higher standards that heteronormative straight media.

Anyway. In short. Byler endgame. Byler supremacy. Byler is love, Byler is life. Amen.

[rigginsstreet]

The thing about billy is that he was marked for death the second his mom left him with neil.

He was either gonna die by Neil’s hands or, as we saw on the show, he was gonna go down such a self destructive path it would send him into an early grave of his own making.

So him dying at 18 isn’t really shocking. The part of it that was never written in the stars for him previously is that in his final moments he got to take some of his power back. He made the choice to stand against his abuser (the mindflayer) in the name of saving someone else. He got to fight back against the thing controlling him and contribute to its demise. Something he likely would’ve never gotten a chance to do with neil.

The tragedy is that he dies anyway, and no one can even give him the courtesy of acknowledging what that tragedy is. Not the writers, not the fandom, not the characters within the show.

His death becomes Max’s tragedy, it can’t even be his own. Nobody cares what billys death means in the context of billys life. Just like how nobody cared about billy when his mom left or when his dad was getting physical with him or when he started lashing out because of the abuse.

Nobody ever cared for billy, so why was he expected to care about anyone else?

He was never treated as a person, just a presence. And an inconvenient one at that. So of course he was never gonna make it to a long fulfilling life. And nobody ever thought to step in and intervene because well, Billys a problem, right? So what does it matter if he’s gone?

And you start to realize how inherently cruel the entire stranger things narrative is because there’s a clear line of people “worth” saving and those who aren’t. And if someone’s too much trouble then well, they’re expendable.

Billy was too much trouble for his mom to make her clean escape. He was too much trouble for not fitting in to Neil’s ideals of the perfect son. He was too much trouble for max as a brother. Too much trouble with all the rage and hate he had built up for the world around him for not protecting him.

So in the end, really, what was left for him to do?

[gayofthefae]

There is something in a story structure called a cave. It is when all hope is lost, the lowest point for a character; they hit rock bottom. It happens right before the climax to force them to make an important decision, force them into a dilemma.

Every scene has one, every episode has one, every season has one to varying degrees. But Stranger Things as a whole is also a single story. A 5-season single story.

It's why season 4 is the only time they lose the battle. It is at the perfect point of the cave in the story - 4 of 5. "All hope is lost". It is the cave of the story as a whole.

So, though it may be played as his season climax, Mike Wheeler's story cave is this:

"Forced to make a decision between bad and worse" in my screenwriting teacher's words, he chooses that she live and he lie irrevocably over that he be honest and risk her dying. I once said he spent the season wondering whether he would have lied if he'd known it'd keep her safe; now he knows. A dilemma.

And I must say, it is genius to place it right here. Exactly here. The perfect way to convince you. It is his season climax: everything he's wanted achieved...But it is his story cave: rock bottom.

Yes, he achieved what he originally wanted - to love her. But he has reached the point in the story where he realizes what he wants and needs are not only different but at odds. He always wanted to love her. He always wanted to love a girl. He always wanted to avoid this fate

But unfortunately, he really did end up loving El, not just in concept or cover, so when what he needed was to be true to himself against their relationship, he acted in favor of his previous wants - and of her, not his needs.

Mike's story is confirmed to be incomplete. This is why.

Additional support to this analysis if you have doubts:

Will's decision would much more obviously be considered an all time low in this same structure. He had a dilemma Mike and El continuing to be sad or himself being sad and chose to sacrifice himself.

This clearly supports that the structure is being applied. Narrative structures aren't just applied once. That would make an incoherent mess in an ensemble cast. Mike and all characters follow the same structure we can prove is present with Will.

Will built up to giving Mike the painting, what he wanted to do all season, but sacrificed what he needed, to share his feelings. Mike is the same. Mike cannot be different. That's just not how writing works.

[imsodishy]

Your post about all the events of s2 happening in a week reminded me of other stupid thi mg s that happen in st that the duffers just didn’t even bother trying to explain. Like in s3 when the hospital gets pretty much destroyed and all the staff are killed? Like there’s literally no consequences to that. Like nobody went hey what happened to our local hospital and all the people who died there?? Nope. Nothing. It’s a small town so it really makes no sense

yeah, the duffers are king of ignoring consequences, they just move briskly past like "no time for that! on to the next thing!" and then hoping it's been long enough that you've forgotten about it by the time the next season drops, and that you binge the season so quick that you don't really have time to think about it. (this is imo a problem with full season drops in general but stranger things is a really glaring example of it)

Like, they worked so hard to get all their main characters back to Hawkins for their Big Apocalyptic Cliffhanger ™️ at the end of S4, but the stills coming out for S5 they're all just going to school like normal, so like... what was the point? lmao

[jonathanssweatercollection]

you still resent nancy and jonathan for getting together???? for “hurting steve’s feelings”??? despite the fact that he verbally supported their relationship like 2 hours after seeing them together. this from a season that released 6 fucking years ago. a season prior to him saying that he was NOT in love with nancy anymore. do you want me to call shawn levy and tell him of your dilemma. bestie do you need to rewatch the source material

[thatgirlwithasquid]

yknow. sometimes when i see anti posts i just sit here and think ‘damn. you would not have gotten Jennifer’s Body’

[sinclairstarz]

i have so many takes on stranger things and this is The Site to yap random takes into the void but at the same time like half of my takes are negative and i feel like im being a party pooper. like girl dont be a negative nelly!!

[devondespresso]

realizing they probably didn't make eddies death bad so they could revive him but because for sone reason they think making deaths really stupid and nonsensical in-universe is the same as a death being sad and gut-punching because they did the same god damn thing to bob

like. bobs death was supposed to make us sad and feel like he was taken from us unfairly because thats the impact it has on joyce. but to do that they decided he should make it through the entire god-damned lab unscathed so he can stand there gawking at joyce like a dumbass just waiting around to get attacked by a demodog. he stands there with the only thing between him and the dogs is one flimsy ass door and he just loiters around taking his sweet time, living it up as a sitting duck.

want people to feel like a character was taken from them suddenly and unfairly? make the death smart. make something happen from the environment or the timing or something completely out if their control that fucking sucks but you know theres no way out. characters making stupid choices for the sole purpose of making the scripted thing happen is the worst possible option.

and its not like they don't know how to write good deaths. barb and chrissys deaths (as much as i miss my girls) were well written. i felt their absence and i missed them with the characters in universe but i never felt like their deaths were cheap. and i still desperately wish chrissy lived because i love her but i still appreciate her death scene because it was really well handled.

[roosterbox]

Fic Rec Friday 6/16/2023

Title: The Best Part of Me is That I’m the B-Side to You

Rating: Explicit

Archive Warning: Graphic Depictions Of Violence

Category: M/M

Fandom: Stranger Things (TV 2016)

Relationship: Steve Harrington/Eddie Munson

Characters: Steve Harrington, Eddie Munson, And ensemble

Additional Tags: Hurt and comfort, Angst, Established Relationship, kind of, Fix-It, not a slow burn we burn fast like cheap cigarettes, [magnolia park's "i'm back on my bullshit" plays in the background]

Summary: Maybe it was too early to say that. Maybe it was too early to say Steve was in love. He usually fell hard. He thought he was in love with Nancy Wheeler. He fell hard for her too.

But Eddie Munson?

Eddie Munson is intoxicating.

----

AKA the one where Steve and Eddie have been dating Eddie's entire senior year.

———

*heavy breathing*

Okay. So. This one is a bit of a doozy for me. I hope the 80k isn’t too intimidating for you - if it is, I get it - because holy shit I cannot recommend it enough. You know a fic is fucking good when you read it once and immediately resign yourself to never reading it again because it’s just… too much. That was me months ago when I first read this. The very thought brought me to tears. And if that wasn’t enough, I couldn’t listen to Head Over Heels again until like a week or two ago, lol. And now I’ll have to wait months and months again before I can listen to it without immediately tearing up. The power of incredible writing.

This is probably (definitely) my favorite of the ‘Steve and Eddie are secretly dating’ subgenre of Steddie fics. As well as my favorite ‘Eddie and Steve knew each other while Steve worked at Scoops’ story. They’re both very niche genres, of course. So much of this fic has kind of wormed itself into my brain and my own headcanons that re-reading it for this rec was an eye-opening experience. “Wait, that was from this? I thought I made that up!”

I never would have thought that a substitute phrase for I Love You could make me tear up, but dammit, if I even slightly think of the words “I’m forever yours,” I’m gone. In tears as we speak. With that out of the way, yes - I cried again while re-reading it. Not as much as I did the first time, mind you, but yeah. Y’all know me; I am as soft as a gently baked batch of cookies.

To summarize: cute boys being cute together and almost dying makes Roosterbox cry like a baby, lol.

Highly, highly recommended.

Important side note: No link, except to the login page. The writer has locked the fic for the time being. Not gonna complain or judge them for it (if they’re reading this, I understand - you do what you feel you must), just FYI. You can still find it if you have an Ao3 account.

———

Next Week: Okay guys, I’m gonna level with you. I think it’s time to dive headfirst into one of my favorite fic tropes. One that a loooooot of people aren’t into. For various reasons. And I get it. I do, I swear I do. But you know… it’s always been one of my comfort tropes. I am, of course, talking about the M word. Mpreg. And it’s my favorite type of Mpreg story: one where it isn’t explained. Is it ABO? Maybe but probably not. Is the guy trans? Maybe. Is it just that men can get pregnant in this universe? Maaaaaaaybe. Draw your own conclusions and/or have your own headcanon. Just enjoy the ride.

Oh, and it’s Arthur/Eames by the way. Figured that was important to mention.

Until next week, darlings ❤️

[dungeons-are-too-cold]

honestly, i feel really fucking tired of people thinking the duffers are bad clueless stupid writers who dont think about their characters and make dumb thoughtless decisions .

there is so much care and precision and planning thats gone into stranger things as a whole, and i think that just because you cant see it immediately or on first watch doesnt mean that its not there. it means you need to watch closer

im especially frustrated with people who dont see that stranger things s4 is presenting us with this climax of sorts. it might not feel cohesive or complete yet BECAUSE ITS NOT DONE AND THE STORY ISNT OVER.

Of course it feels unfinished or might feel unsatisfactory. its like a cliff hanger. its the point in the story where the hero's reach their false victory or their lowest point, in this case its kind of both in a way. They arent supposed to win yet, things arent supposed to feel safe, and character's arcs are still being developed in the story. We are in the thick of it and we will get our answers, our full circle moments, our arc completions in season 5.

we arent supposed to have the answers yet, in fact i think the whole point of season 4 is to leave us with a sort of jarring "what the fuck" moment that leaves us with more questions, that leaves us with a feeling of "where the fuck do we go from here"

just because we dont have answers doesnt mean the duffers are bad writers. it means we havent seen the end of their stories.

Think about stranger things like this: its like if you took your favorite movie, thats 2 hours long, and stopped watching at the hour and thirty minute mark. of course its not gonna feel right or finished, you still have a half hour of the fucking movie left.

maybe dont jump to conclusions because s4 isnt tied up in a neat little bow. its different from other seasons for a reason and just hold your fucking horses and cool your fucking jets until season 5 comes out. Im so tired of this.

[blessyouhawkeye]

a lot of people are commenting on this post saying that Big Government intervened in the writing of stranger things and made them back off from critiquing 50 year old acts committed by the us government, and i would love to direct those people to hanlon's razor: never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity

it's been years and it's still genuinely crazy to me that the first two seasons of stranger things had this throughline where all the bad things that were happening in hawkins were directly caused by the us government and that they were excusing the awful things they were doing to their own citizens (children!) through cold war/red scare reactionism. and then in season three there was a secret russian base under the town mall.

[vanweezer]

some tags you straight up need the filters of your mutuals on your dash for instead of actually seeking out yourself i just damn near had a real life angry reaction to seeing an yler-bay post that said "why would they make (mike & eleven) the most annoying couple in the show if theyre supposed to be endgame" and im soooo. im so im so im so im so im so

[conflictofthemind]

Wow, so the Duffers are really really going all in for the Wrinkle in Time inspiration for Season 5

I made a few posts about two months ago that are good supplemental reading material about how 'being different' in itself is a reference to a Wrinkle in Time, and how Escape from Camazotz is not about Eddie but another reference to the novel that symbolizes forced conformity.

We have (hopefully) photos coming later today of Mike, Holly, and Will riding on bicycles. Now this is so so interesting because the writers have already confirmed a Wrinkle in Time will be an inspiration for the season multiple times. Not to mention that it has already been written into the show since Season 1:

The 'A Wrinkle in Time' plot goes as follows: "Combining theology, fantasy, and science, it is the story of travel through space and time to battle a cosmic evil. With their neighbour Calvin O’Keefe, young Meg Murry and her brother Charles Wallace embark on a cosmic journey to find their lost father, a scientist studying time travel. Assisted by three eccentric women—Mrs. Whatsit, Mrs. Who, and Mrs. Which—the children travel to the planet Camazotz, where they encounter a repressed society controlled by IT, a disembodied brain that represents evil. Among the themes of the work are the dangers of unthinking conformity and scientific irresponsibility and the saving power of love." - Encyclopedia Britannica.

At a point in their journey, Charles Wallace becomes willingly hypnotized by The Man with the Red Eyes (a vessel for the IT). He tries to put up a fight but eventually succumbs to the hypnotism and is also kidnapped onto the planet / realm Camazotz.

Meg and Charles are siblings. Calvin is a boy from school who befriends Meg and then becomes her love interest. In the original movie adaptation, and at the beginning of the 2018 adaptation, he sports a distinctive green and beige varsity jacket layered with a red and orange plaid shirt.

I've talked about the themes in the novel in those two posts about, but I'll briefly emphasize that the main theme is nonconformity and how being different is good. Calvin and Meg in particular bond over their shared experience of 'being different', and Calvin is finally able to *cough* come out of the closet and start 'being different' openly.

And there is no world in which is this not intentional. :)

[clericsandpaladins]

I find Season Four to be quite interesting in that the Duffers have confirmed that originally it was meant to be the last season, but they had to split it for the sake of pacing. Season Four is less of it's own season and more of the set-up for Season Five and that tells us a lot about the plots in Season Four.

I've seen a lot of people argue about the purpose of the California and Russia plotlines considering that they are so disconnected from what we could call the main plot, which is Vecna. But the Duffers are NOT bad writers. They had an extra six months to work on and revisit their scripts. Everything in Season Four was very intentional, which is why I choose to give the California and Russia plotlines the benefit of the doubt. Do they seem pretty pointless? Yeah, right now they do. But when you think about it, we are only seeing half of the story here. Season Four and Five were meant to be ONE season.  Hopper's prison break is only half of the story, we don't yet know the true purpose for reviving him and spending so much time getting him out. We needed to get Hopper away so that El could spend this season continuing her ongoing arc of self-discovery and independence. What we don't know is why we need Hopper back and that's the question I think will be answered in Season Five. You don't kill and revive characters for no reason because it takes away the stakes in your story. By doing that, you're making your audience less invested in the safety of these characters because they KNOW there are no consequences. So then why did the Duffers spend a quarter of Season Four getting Hopper back, despite it's irrelevance to the plot until the very end where they help to defeat Vecna? That's the question that Season Five will answer. The California group go on a big road trip trying to find El. Seemingly the only purpose for this is to be able to find El so she can get to the pizza freezer and help Max, making the rest of the stuff they do pretty irrelevant. Right? Wrong. Because, once again, this is set-up. We are only seeing half of the story the Duffers wanted to tell. So then what is actually happening in this plotline? Certainly nothing much with Jonathan. But what we do spend most of this plotline doing is showing the development of Mike and Will's relationship. They start off awkward, they argue, they have heart-to-hearts. The majority of this plotline is dedicated to showing us how Will and Mike interact and behave around each other. You know how it all ends? With a chekhov's gun in the form of Will's painting and his veiled love confession. If the Duffers are indeed good writers, then they have to address this is Season Five, once again showing us we are only seeing half of the story.  Because of the chekhov's gun, we know that Will's feelings for Mike have to be addressed in Season Five. If they aren't, then what was the point of the painting in the first place? We didn't need it for Mike to confess his love to El. El dying should've been enough for Mike, but it wasn't. Will reminding Mike of what happened in the van is what lead to his love confession. The painting has a purpose, it just hasn't been addressed yet. Similarly, if this emotional arc with Mike and Will ends with no change in their relationship, then what was the point? There was no need for Will to be in love with Mike to show his queerness. They could've introduced a new love interest for Will like they did with Dustin and Robin. But they didn't. Will's inevitable confession to Mike needs to result in a change for the California plotline to have a purpose, otherwise the narrative wasted all that time building up to nothing. Not to mention the fact that Will is the key to tying up Mike's arc. Mike feels like he isn't needed by El and this is a major insecurity for him. He spends most of Season Four worrying about this and so in order for his ending to be satisfying, we need to resolve this insecurity and prove him wrong. Yet, Season Four ended with El realizing she had value as a person outside of her super powers and that she doesn't need another person to feel whole. She is her own superhero. But you know who does need Mike? Will. In conclusion, these plotlines aren't useless. They are set-up. EDIT: I wrote this at 2am lol. Wish I would've waited and edited the post a bit but alas 2am thoughts are never edited.

[pinksmonkey]

Posting my Ultimate Byler Evidence/Analysis List here directly because it probably makes it more convenient and I should have done this a while ago. XD

There is so much proof for Byler being endgame in S5 of Stranger Things. They are so cute together, and so much in the show has been building up to their relationship. I just wanted to share some of my favourite Byler analyses, because they are so cool, detailed, and in-depth. I love reading about all the hints, symbolism, and subtext for Byler, it's amazing how much thought must have been put into all these things. Why go through all the effort of adding these details if they aren't actually going anywhere with them? Mike is so queercoded, and they are truly in love with each other.

🫥 Just gonna leave some good Byler analyses here 🤐

Most of the links go to written Tumblr posts, and a couple of them are Reddit posts. So it's a lot of reading. If you prefer watching videos over reading, I highlighted my Byler YouTube playlist in green so it's easy to find.

And apologies for any of the links that aren't working, I know some of the posts have been deleted now sadly, but there's no way I'm re-numbering all these so I'm just leaving them in. My fellow Bylers, please stop deleting your amazing posts. ;-;

So anyway, here is the list of some of my favourite Byler evidence/analyses of all time (not in any particular order):

1. Mike's Season 4 Monologue To El

2. Camera Roll Byler Proof Part 3

3. Mike's Monologue and Milkvan

4. Mostly Byler Post Index

5. Dawson's Creek Parallel

6. "My Experience With Stranger Things"

7. What Ollie Learned From Film School

8. Byler Music Analysis

9. Why Don't The Duffers Discuss This?

10. ST Theories Masterpost

11. If Byler Isn't Endgame Then Someone Screwed Up

12. Byler Crumbs From The Cast and Crew

13. Favourite Combination of Endgame Byler Proof

14. I Doubt Byler Then I Remember This

15. The Fact That We Have This Interview

16. You Know Your Ship is Endgame When

17. Mostly Byler Post Index 2

18. Losing Hope Of Byler Endgame?

19. Why I Think Byler is Endgame

20. So Many Thoughts on This

21. Mike's Wall Art

22. Painting Miscommunication Leading to Mike's Monologue Coded

23. Yes, That Scene Did Foreshadow Mike's Monologue as Disingenuous

24. Mike's Monologue Didn't Sit Right With Me

25. Blue And Yellow Pen

26. That Tweet Is So Sweet

27. Heart Eyes, Literally

28. "My Process of Realizing Byler is Real"

29. Looking at Will, Not El

30. High School Musical Parallel

31. Said It Before and I'll Say It Again

32. Delusional Milkdud?

33. ST Writers Twitter Analysis 1

34. ST Writers Twitter Analysis 2

35. For When You Are Doubting Byler

36. Is Mike Bi or Gay?

37. Fully Convinced

38. The Ultimate Byler Playlist (my Byler YouTube playlist)

39. 100% Confident

40. Mike in S4 and S2

41. Mike Is Angry With Himself

42. It's Been A Year, Mike

43. Rink-O-Mania Remodel

44. The Development Of Will And Mike's Relationship

45. Mike's Lies

46. El Was Holding So Much In

47. Flickergate + Lettergate

48. Did Mike Ever Like El Romantically?

49. Mike Is Stupid

50. Byler Won't Write Itself

51. What's The Alternative Explanation?

52. Comparing Mileven and Byler

53. It Was Always About Them

54. Mike Is Not Ok

55. He Has A Love Interest

56. Will's Happy Ending

57. Trying To Be Normal

58. It's Not That Milevens Are Homophobic

59. Byler Is Reality

60. A Proper Look At El's Shrine To Mike

61. Mileven Through The Seasons

62. Suspicious

63. I Can't Doubt Byler

64. D&D Soulmates

65. Let's Talk Phones

66. Not Delusional

67. What Do They Want?

68. The Main Character

69. Mike's Mental Health

70. So Close

71. This Look Confirms Byler Isn't One Sided

72. Mileven Is Bones

73. They Don't Care About Mileven?

74. The Airport Hug Will Always Be Famous

75. The Monologue Mystery, Why Did They Lose?

76. The Cabin Scene

77. Why Couldn't Mike Say It For 2 Seasons?

78. He Was Trying To Find Will

79. Mike The Surfer Boy

80. Mike Definitely Shows Attraction To Girls

81. The Cast Knows

82. Mileven Loses On All Fronts

83. The Bouquet

84. 53 Minutes And 5 Seconds

85. Pink Panther

86. El And Choice

87. Will's Spotify Playlist

88. He'll Come Crawling Back To You, Begging For Forgiveness

89. Mike's Character Arc Prediction

90. It's The Same Look

91. Will's Truly Happy Ending

92. That's The Same Look, Right?

93. You're The Heart

94. Mike And El's Relationship In S4 Was Really Weird

95. Fireworks Parallel

96. Mileven Has Been Built Up For 4 Seasons

97. Not Stupid: The Fate of Mileven and Byler

98. This Suddenly Makes So Much Sense

99. Metaphors In Filmmaking

And unfortunately Tumblr will only let me add 100 links per post, so when I've posted part 2 of this list, I'll link it here: Part 2

[love-byers]

the fact that in s4 milkvan had a supposed love confession, what should be a HUGE moment for a couple, the thing we've all been waiting for, and lumax were still the stars of the season.

everyone was buzzing about their chemistry, how much lucas cared for her, how cute the notepad scene was, how lucas saved her without even trying, caleb and sadie's incredible acting in max's death scene, how they made all of us sob like babies, how very blatantly obviously in love they were.

and barely a damn thing about mileven. more people hated mileven after s4 than before it. people were tired of them, just wanted them to break up. people complained about their lack of chemistry and even went as far to say mike had more chemistry with will, not even shipping byler, just saying mike and el's chemistry was THAT bad. finn was getting flamed for his "bad acting". FINN WOLFHARD was accused of being a bad actor. same finn wolfhard who was widely praised for his incredible acting in season 2. finn is not regressing as an actor, his scenes with el just don't evoke any emotion, and he's playing mike wheeler who is canonically a horrible liar.

mileven were hated more AFTER the 'love confession'.

IN WHAT FUCKING WORLD.

lumax, who were BROKEN UP for all of season 4, stole the audience's hearts. brought us to tears. we fell in love with their love. not the couple who had a 2 minute long 'love confession'.

"mileven were just badly written by the duffers" the same duffers who in the same season wrote lucas and max beautifully so that everyone would love them? either they're bad writers or good writers. everything besides mlvn (and stancy) was written perfectly in s4.

they seem like good writers to me.

clearly their goal is to make the audience sick of mike and el's drama and just want them to break up already. if you don't see that you are in serious denial. mike and el were well written in the first two seasons, well enough that we were all dying to see them reunite in s2 and ate up the snow ball scene. after that it was straight downhill. in s3 they were obnoxious together and most of the characters were annoyed by them. and in s4 they're just a complete dumpster fire.

anyways milkvan bones and lumax endgame