#lumax endgame

[mrincrediblyblind]

Stranger Things s3 Comic (Byler + Lumax)

[jackietaylorapologist]

gay couple and their bisexual friends

[love-byers]

something interesting....

the point of the running up that hill scene in Dear Billy is not just max remembering she is loved, it's her remembering the love she has for others. remembering the happiness she feels when she's with them.

it wasn't lucas's love for max that saved her, it was max's love for lucas. if she didn't love lucas, those memories wouldn't have saved her. the love and happiness wasn't handed to her by lucas, it already existed inside of her.

when, if you don't recall, THEY WEREN'T EVEN DATING.

during mike's monologue, his words should be evoking el's love for him. her memories of him. but nothing comes to her except when they met in the forest, because that's the only thing he says that's based in reality.

and, if el really loved mike, HE WOULDNT HAVE NEEDED TO SAY ANYTHING IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!! her love for him, the happiness he brings her would've been enough, requited or not, just like max.

for example, will believes mike does not share his feelings. but it doesn't matter. mike is still the light of his life, mike still gives him strength and makes him happiest. that's because his love for mike is strong on its own.

he doesn't need mike to spell everything out for him, because they have a genuine connection. a connection that doesn't require words to enjoy and understand. i didn't say it. you didn't have to.

i talk a lot about mike not being in love with el, but el is DEFINITELY not in love with mike. and i don't think she ever was.

[yellowcrowindustry]

Byler: 🙁😣

El: 🤨

Lumax: 😉🥰

[willbyersoffical]

Max and Lucas having their little drawings and Mike having the painting....someone sedate me

[noihavenosanitythanksforasking]

how well st character at pretending to be straight

will - 9/10 bro is dedicated to the bestie vibes only agenda. unfortunately his family had him clocked at the beginning

mike- 1/10 bro is very transparent, how anyone in universe this this boy is straight is beyond me. someone needs to take this mf in before he hurts himself. gay ass bitch.

robin - 4/10 the fact that her best friend is a guy and her overwhelming neurodivergent energy is the only thing that saves her

lucas - 7/10 radiates lover boy bi king energy. his saving grace is the inherent biphobia of the 80s and the fact that he has a gf he's obsessed with. erika has him clocked asf tho.

max- 5/10 bi queen. hater of all the haters. shes bu but will still judge your romantic choices no matter what gender they are. saved once again by the inherent biphobia of the 80s.

steve - 3/10. again. inherent biphobia of the 80s. gay asf. love me a loser bisexual

nancy - 10/10 shes either straight or really good at hiding it unlike her loser brother.

jonathan - 9/10 he taught will everything he knows.

el - ?/10 i have no fukin idea about her tbh shes either aroace or pan but she makes no sense to me and i doubt she understands shit either

eddie - 0/10 he aint tryna hide that shit

dustin - ♾️/10 hes actually straight. but hes not like homophobic. hes an ally.

[hopsbyers]

But I see you now. I see you.

[wenclair-more-like-whenclair]

*Whispers into the void* Let Mike and Lucas be inextricable parts of each other’s arcs in s5 bc they both love their partners so much but fear they can’t protect them, and they both want and deserve the best boyfriend award, and they both want to develop and display their own healthy, nontoxic versions of masculinity, and they should help each other!! Be on each other’s team. I can’t imagine that anyone could encourage Mike about Will more than Lucas could, and vice versa. Like they’re both such sweet boys who understand and want to implement positive masculinity into their lives in ways that can benefit and protect their partner. Pls remind us how/why they’re best friends and how much they compliment each other.

[bylerworld]

IT'S ALWAYS BEEN THEM!! THE ENDGAMES!!

[willbyerssupremacist]

saw someone on instagram point out that all the suspected endgame couples are unconventional love stories for the time period.

joyce and hopper are divorcee's.

max and lucas are in an interracial relationship.

robin and vickie are sapphics.

jonathan and nancy depict the woman taking the lead in the relationship while the man supports her.

it would make so much sense if the final endgame couple would be mike and will.

[lizbetlovesbyler]

The Duffers ‘Chemistry Test’

(How the Duffers demonstrate romantic AND platonic chemistry in Stranger Things’ relationships)

When one character starts singing, how does the other react? Are they in harmony?

(alternatively: do they match each others freak?)

“Chemistry” describes the emotional connection between two characters in a relationship. This can be either romantic, platonic, both, or neither.

We know that the Duffer brothers highlighted the importance of music in Stranger Things 4, so let’s look back on it’s uses in earlier seasons.

I’ve noticed a lot of parallels between scenes that focus on the relationship between two characters. One of these two characters will sing, and the other has one of two reactions:

Indulge in the fun

Try and shut it down

Depending on their reaction, we can conclude a lot about what the Duffers want to communicate about the chemistry between two characters.

So let’s look at 6 examples:

Exhibit A: Dustin and Suzie

https://youtu.be/ehtsmxu1w10?si=CGnKM5PubO5lC-V4

This - I think - is the most glaringly obvious example of how the Duffers like to demonstrate chemistry between two characters. Mostly because this scene is purposefully very memorable.

Dustin and Suzie have clearly sung this many times before, we know this because Dustin immediately knows what Suzie wants from him just from her saying “I want to hear it”

At first, he’s embarrassed - all of his friends are listening, friends who didn’t believe until now that Suzie even existed. He doesn’t want to sing it in front of them.

But when Suzie joins in, he’s actually able to forget about the danger they’re all in, he’s doesn’t care everyone is listening, he’s able to indulge. Because he loves Suzie, these moments bring him joy. They bring Suzie joy, too. Just look at this shot of them together, despite being states apart. Because they are in harmony, the distance between them doesn’t matter.

These two cutie patooties pass the chemistry test with flying colours.

Exhibit B: Max and Lucas

(Max and Lucas are presumably also in a relationship at this point in the series, and they don’t break up until after.)

As another couple, the two are mocking Dustin for his relationship - making kissy faces at him and calling him “Dusty-bun”.

However, whilst doing so, they are demonstrating their own chemistry - synchronous clapping, smiling at each other, holding eye contact. When they start singing the second time, they need nothing more than a look from the other before they start again from the same lyric.

Max and Lucas may not have the same romantic dynamic as Dustin and Suzie, after all no two couples are the same, but they will sing to make lighthearted fun at their friend.

It should also be noted that Max didn’t even hear Dustin’s original rendition, she had to hear about the whole ordeal from the others, I’ll wager Lucas sang it enough to Dustin that she picked up on it and joined in. She indulged in the fun.

If Lucas and Max did not have chemistry, Max would’ve been at most only slightly amused in Lucas’ mockery, but she would not have joined in on it (similar to Mike) and might have even told him to knock it off during the time skip if he continued doing it.

These two pass the chemistry test.

Exhibit C: Mike and Eleven

Might be time to start contrasting these examples to other scenes in the same season.

This is our first look at Mike and Eleven as an official couple - and what I would label as the start of their downfall.

(may make a whole post dedicated to this one scene because it speaks volumes about Mike and Els relationship and what the Duffers want us to take away from it in retrospect)

This scene is special because it’s not like the writers are trying to make it glaringly obvious that Mike and El are not a compatible couple. Rather, this scene is disguised as a cute (albeit slightly awkward) scene, hell - i thought it was cute when i first watched it (I was also, you know, 12, but whatever, I’m now 17 I have a very different idea of what romantic relationships actually look like).

It’s only later when we gather the other examples in this post and compare them we can start to see that somethings not quite right with these two cutie pies.

Even whilst they’re still kissing, Mike is pushing Els hands away from him - already not a good sign.

When he pulls away to sing, it’s because he wants a break from constant kissing. From my own experience, I can tell you that making out is very exhausting (especially when you don’t have a lot of chemistry with the person you’re locking lips with).

El reacts very quickly by covering his mouth, she calls his name to grab his attention, she tells him to stop, she gives him a look that just says “What are you doing?”. This is her trying to shut him down. She is not indulging in the fun, even though Mike is trying to make her - he shakes her and her arms, he maintains eye contact. He asks her if she likes it, and she says “No!”.

If the Duffers wanted to portray Mike and El as a couple with chemistry, a better way to portray that could have been to have them just sitting and reading their own respective magazines, when Mike sings, El could have smiled and bopped her head along despite likely not knowing the words. They could have demonstrated that the two enjoy each others company even when they’re not making out, that they are still close, and a kiss goodbye to make it clear to the audience they still have a romantic dynamic.

This scene doesn’t just not do that, it does the opposite. Mike and El are only interested in kissing. When they break up later, it’s for comedic relief.

These two unfortunately do not pass the chemistry test.

Now, due to the very thick romantic tone of this scene, we can conclude that Mike and El do not have romantic chemistry, but we cannot make any conclusions about their platonic chemistry.

What does platonic chemistry look like with Eleven, you ask?

Exhibit D: Max and Eleven

This example is slightly less noticeable, but this scene starts in Elevens room, a parallel to the previous example with Mike.

Max is singing along to the radio, much like Mike was, the only difference is Els reaction. Instead of trying to shut her down, she is bopping her head along to the music. She may not be singing along, but she is still indulging in Max’s behaviour, she’s having fun.

Max and Eleven have platonic chemistry.

Exhibit E: Steve and Nancy

Let’s now look at the very first example of this Chemistry Test the show gives us, way back in season one. It’s so small you may have missed it.

I think this is a very good example of how interactions like these are a two way street.

(For context, Steve is apologising to Nancy for his lack of empathy towards Barbs disappearance, and tries to invite her to a movie to take her mind off it all - note that Nancy is yet to verbally forgive Steve in this scene)

Nancy goes through a lot in the first season, I don’t doubt that even if her and Steve shared romantic chemistry, that she still wouldn’t be in the mood for a little sing song. But Steve still sings to her anyway, he hasn’t picked up on how distraught she is over Barbs disappearance, and how “pretending everything is normal” is not something she wants to do.

What she wants is to go out and look for Barbara with Jonathan - Steve later misinterprets this as them hooking up, completely ignorant to the fact that they both have lost someone they care deeply for when they both feel they could have prevented it (Jonathan was not supposed to be working that evening and Nancy convinced Barb to come to Steve’s even though she didn’t actually want to)

It’s clear Steve is genuinely trying to make amends with her in this scene, but there is still a glaring disconnect in their emotions because Steve does not apologise proportionally to the distress Nancy is in. When he sings to her and tries to make her laugh, he is demonstrating this lack of understanding of her needs and emotions. Of course she doesn’t laugh, she looks away awkwardly and eventually shuts him down.

The lack of chemistry between these two is demonstrated by Steve singing in the first place, then confirmed when Nancy does not indulge.

These two, unsurprisingly, do not pass.

Exhibit F: Steve and Robin

(Skip to the end of this video for a refresher)

This is a very intimate conversation. This time, Steve appreciates that it takes a lot of trust for someone like Robin to talk about what she just has. It takes a lot of love from Robins end to be honest with him as to why they can’t be a couple.

Trust and love that didn’t come from no where, I’ll remind you.

He reacts the way he does because he values Robin as a friend, and as friends do, he picks apart and judges her crushes.

Steve doesn’t have to grasp at straws for something to say, despite having never been in this situation before, despite having never even thought about being in this situation before. He just talks. The right words come out of his mouth because they have that shared love and trust. He just talks and says the right thing because he feels and thinks the right things.

He sings because it’s appropriate for their dynamic and his approach to this conversation as her friend, she indulges to confirm that they are in harmony now their relationship is defined as platonic.

These two have undeniable chemistry. Id argue this is the best example of this Chemistry Test because it’s such a raw and real interaction, even if it only demonstrates a strong platonic bond.

(I would love to see some sort of parallel with Mike and Eleven in S5)

“Great! We have a theory about how the Duffer brothers have previously demonstrated Chemistry, with evidence to support it! … Now what?”

Now we apply it to Season 5 Speculation!

I bring to you a whole three possible applications of this theory.

Number 1: Robin and Vickie

Crucial detail that loads of people overlook about Robin and Vickie - they’re both in band.

We’re constantly reminded of it, too.

Steve to Robin: “You’re worried about a high school pep rally, you expect me to believe that? […] This is about Vickie!”

Our first look at Vickie is during said pep rally, we see Vickie and Robin standing side by side, sharing a glance during the band performance.

We see them interact later that night, during band (again), whilst Tammy Thompson sings the national anthem.

Dustin to Eddie s4 e02: “You know Robin! From band!”

Vickie to her boyfriend when he asks who Robin is: “Someone from band.”

Robin and Vickie are in harmony, even in their limited on screen interactions, because they both play music together.

It’s also worth noting that both of their instruments are wind instruments. We know that the both of them struggle to stop themselves from rambling, so their best interactions are during band, they do not have to worry about finding the right words because they literally cannot talk.

According to the Duffer Brothers, Robin and Vickie have chemistry. Rovickie endgame - next please!

Number 2: Steve and Nancy

Let’s be so fr they are not getting back together.

This post is one of many arguments as to why they should not and will not become a couple again in s5.

I said “next, please!”

Number 3: Will and Mike

Stay with me, now.

Small throwaway scene? Maybe, yeah, but i’ll add that the exact frame Will sings here is the thumbnail for this episode.

Do with that information what you will.

In this scene, Mike is making a plan to find El by getting help from Suzie. Will is the only one who picks up on Mikes plan, and sings the Never-ending Story theme to remind the others who haven’t yet picked up on it. Basic example of show don’t tell.

Contrary to Steve and Nancy, Will sings because Mike and him are already in harmony. They’re on the same page about “Utah” meaning “Suzie”.

This is one of the many examples in season 4 alone where Mike and Will do not need to communicate with words to pick up what the other puts down.

You could say that these two have quite a good rhythm, their interactions seem to flow seamlessly, and when they don’t ( *cough* airport reunion) it sticks out like a sore thumb.

I cant find a clip of the scene I can link here, but think of that scene where they’re formatting a lie for Suzie in her room as to why they need these coordinates, and it’s complete improv and such a natural flowing lie despite the fact they’ve never discussed it before.

And if we’re defining chemistry as a measure of emotional connection, well, which two characters have the most heart-to-heart, ‘lethal dose of emotion’ interactions this season?

yeah…quite a few more than average.

And that’s just season four! Mike and Will share emotionally intimate moments like these throughout the seasons.

So, will we get to see some more musical interactions this next season? If we do, i’ll place my bets on these two getting fed a version of our Chemistry Test.

Love to hear other people’s thoughts!

[mrincrediblyblind]

starcourt gang / lumax + byler is actually so underrated

i am in fact drawing them 😋

[messytoni]

Lumax Stranger Things Funko

Max and Lucas drawing is coming out in a two-pack

I'm glad you're here

Movie Friday?

[love-byers]

the fact that in s4 milkvan had a supposed love confession, what should be a HUGE moment for a couple, the thing we've all been waiting for, and lumax were still the stars of the season.

everyone was buzzing about their chemistry, how much lucas cared for her, how cute the notepad scene was, how lucas saved her without even trying, caleb and sadie's incredible acting in max's death scene, how they made all of us sob like babies, how very blatantly obviously in love they were.

and barely a damn thing about mileven. more people hated mileven after s4 than before it. people were tired of them, just wanted them to break up. people complained about their lack of chemistry and even went as far to say mike had more chemistry with will, not even shipping byler, just saying mike and el's chemistry was THAT bad. finn was getting flamed for his "bad acting". FINN WOLFHARD was accused of being a bad actor. same finn wolfhard who was widely praised for his incredible acting in season 2. finn is not regressing as an actor, his scenes with el just don't evoke any emotion, and he's playing mike wheeler who is canonically a horrible liar.

mileven were hated more AFTER the 'love confession'.

IN WHAT FUCKING WORLD.

lumax, who were BROKEN UP for all of season 4, stole the audience's hearts. brought us to tears. we fell in love with their love. not the couple who had a 2 minute long 'love confession'.

"mileven were just badly written by the duffers" the same duffers who in the same season wrote lucas and max beautifully so that everyone would love them? either they're bad writers or good writers. everything besides mlvn (and stancy) was written perfectly in s4.

they seem like good writers to me.

clearly their goal is to make the audience sick of mike and el's drama and just want them to break up already. if you don't see that you are in serious denial. mike and el were well written in the first two seasons, well enough that we were all dying to see them reunite in s2 and ate up the snow ball scene. after that it was straight downhill. in s3 they were obnoxious together and most of the characters were annoyed by them. and in s4 they're just a complete dumpster fire.

anyways milkvan bones and lumax endgame

[madlovesbyler]

Byler & Lumax parallel s2

[queen-of-hawkins-why-ler]

It becomes so obvious that Milkvan isn't supposed to be endgame when you compare the development (or lack thereof) of their relationship to Lumax's. Mike and El are supposedly the main characters and "the main couple" of the show, but if this were actually the case, then why wouldn't the writers spend more time developing their relationship like they have developed Lumax's?

Truth be told, Mike and El's storyline does not have much "development" beyond what happens in the show on a surface level. In s1, they meet each other, become friends, and Mike hides and protects El from the people who are trying to harm her. When he loses her at the end of s1, he subsequently misses her a lot in s2 and they spend the season looking for each other. It's very sweet when they reunite, but even so, not a lot is happening with their relationship besides the obvious, which is that they are happy to see each other again.

Contrast this to Lumax in s2, which portrays an actual relationship DYNAMIC that goes beyond a surface level. Lucas likes Max, and Max likes Lucas, but there are so many layers to how they feel about each other and what is actually going on between them. Lucas likes and cares about Max and wants to get to know her better, but he is genuinely afraid for her safety and doesn't want to involve her in the supernatural. On the other side of it, Max is clearly drawn to Lucas the more she gets to know him, but she has a difficult time trusting or opening up to people, especially when she realizes that the boys are deliberately shunning her and leaving her out of the know and AV Club meetings. Not to mention the entire problem of race, wherein Max is afraid of how her racist, emotionally abusive brother is going to react to her becoming intimately involved with a black boy. Needless to say, Lumax from the very beginning is a complex relationship that has lots of layers, while Mike and El's relationship is pretty straightforward: boy loses girl, boy and girl miss each other, boy and girl are happy to be reunited.

While s3 doesn't do a whole lot for Lucas and Max other than showing them being cute together, it does set the stage for s4 Lumax, which beautifully continues the aforementioned themes. In s2, we are introduced to the idea of Lucas wanting to open up Max and allow her to be in the know, but he does so with the fear that she could get herself killed: that he could lose her. Max, too, is unsure about the amount of risk that comes with opening herself up to somebody, and the answer to both of these problems is both characters' worst nightmare: Max getting hurt and them losing each other. We see Lucas trying so hard and doing everything he can to reach out to Max. He loves her so selflessly and wants her to know that he is there for her no matter what, but she is of course still so traumatized from what happened to Billy and scared of what Vecna is doing to her that she struggles to open herself up freely. And when she finally does, she STILL reaps the consequences and is targeted by Vecna. And of course Lucas feels like his worst fears have become a reality, and Max's ultimate fate is a direct follow up to the initial conflict that was set up for Lumax in s2.

Think about how much thought had to be put into creating that relationship for it to not only work but to be well-executed within the show itself. Not to mention that all of these story elements get developed by way of Lumax developing both as individuals and as a couple. We see them succumbing to their fears. We see them growing apart and together. Most importantly, we see them COMMUNICATING. Max pulls away from Lucas because she is afraid, but Lucas pulls her right back in and assures her that he is there for her, he is protecting her, he loves her. Do we see any of this depth for Milkvan? No. Because there isn't any depth.

In what season (or scene for that matter) have we ever watched Mike and El struggle against what they are faced with both individually and as a couple?? Mind you, there have been plenty of opportunities in this story for Mike and El to develop and to take things on together. And in a very literal sense, they DO take on things together, these things are just utterly surface-level and transparent. Mike is scared that people are under or overestimating El and what her powers are capable of, so he bats for her and tries his best to advocate for her and be by her side. Okay, that's great. El, on the other hand, worries that Mike could be holding her back so she tries relying on herself and her newfound best friend for strength (interesting writing choice lmao). Again, great. But what's happening here beyond a surface level? Nothing. There are no subsequent layers to Mike and El's relationship that the show would have us dive into. And if we ARE in fact supposed to dig into Mike and El's relationship, we are only doing so...

To directly contrast the lack of depth in Milkvan's relationship to the depth we see in Mike and Will's relationship. Milkvan hasn't been layered and built up the same way Byler has because they are not a main focus of the story. Byler IS, on the other hand, which is why their relationship is just as fleshed out and developed as Lumax's. Milkvan gets virtually no development beyond a surface level for four whole seasons, meanwhile Byler's relationship shifts and changes again and again. Even from the beginning, when we barely see Mike and Will interact, we are shown that they share a special bond that is contrasted to the platonic friendship that the other boys have, and we see Mike ceaselessly, endlessly searching for Will with no intention on ever giving up (side note: when Mike is missing El in s2, does he ever throw the tantrums he threw for Will or try to get everyone else involved in finding El the way he did for Will?? Does he ever claim to be the "only one who cares about El?" No). When he finds Will, he stays stuck to him like glue and does everything in his power to watch over and protect Will, the same way Lucas does for Max. In s3, we see Mike and Will's relationship get rocky and we see them struggle, but we also see Mike develop and go the distance as far as mending his relationship with Will, which is something we barely see for Mike and El in the same season. And then in s4, we see the ultimate demonstration of Mike and Will literally working as a team, taking on each other's problems, and most importantly, COMMUNICATING about said problems. They check in on each other, they make sure that the other is okay. They are real about their feelings and don't deliberately hide things from one another (besides the fact that they love each other, ofc, which they only feel the need to hide because it is unsafe and because they are afraid of how the other would react). Needless to say, Lumax and Byler are both well-written, fleshed out, and get development. There are many layers to these relationships as well as shifting dynamics and real, relevant plot threads. Milkvan gets none of these things. Probably because their relationship does not go much deeper than "they care about each other." The only thing worth exploring in terms of the depth of their relationship is all the things Mike isn't able to do and the ways he isn't able to be there for El because his priorities lie with Will.