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ah17hh · 4 years ago

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Spilling most of the tea: Am I wrong for asking my bf to have healthier boundaries with his other gf? (With a novel of background information.) via /r/polyamory

Spilling most of the tea: Am I wrong for asking my bf to have healthier boundaries with his other gf? (With a novel of background information.)

I think I’m asking for my bf to set healthy boundaries with his other gf, but I feel like I’m crazy sometimes for like demanding that? I know I did bad by giving him an ultimatum—either she respects healthy boundaries or I can’t be in this relationship—but I wanted him to know it was fixable? And even if we break up, I still love him and care about him, she should still respect him and try not to control him, right? Whether he’s my bf or not, he deserves to be treated better.

And that’s the closest to a TL;DR I can get. Because it’s gonna get long.

So, I’m gonna go back to the beginning, and that’s part of why it’s long.

B (my current bf) and E (his “anchor” nesting partner) dated monogamously for 6 years or so, when something happened and they split. He moved out. They still hung out, and things were good—I’ve heard from both of them, their separated time was good, they miss how things were then, etc. Because they did things together still. Just not as a couple. And during that time, their mutual friend introduced B to the concept of polyamory (as she was poly herself) and he liked it, it resonated with him, and I think he and I view it in much the same way. But then he and E got back together with this new caveat, and E agreed to work on being okay with it, but be patient.

I met B in December and we hit it off, we’re both poly, we both have nesting partners who don’t really care to know about other partners, we both have a much higher sex drive than our partners. We also like video games and stuff, lots in common. And we’re super cheesy. We started dating. In January, an ex started talking to him, and said she could accept the poly thing if E was his only girlfriend and he promptly dumped me. We were already close, it stung, how could I matter so little? Two days later, both his other girlfriend and he begged me to take him back, he’d made this big terrible mistake. And I knew I was making a bad decision going back. But moving forward... We had a threeway chat, B, E, and me. So I couldn’t be left in the dark and surprised by something like that again. And I thought things were better. They were, really. We had open communication. E and I were very friendly. The three of us went to the bar B and I had become regulars in, and enjoyed ourselves. We had this cute moment, and things felt good. Solid.

Then the pandemic hit, and I remember bars all closed March 17, because it was St Paddy’s Day and I wanted to go out, but I had made the decision not to go out because it wasn’t safe, about two hours or something before they announced everything would be closed, so my good decision didn’t even matter. And at that point I hadn’t seen B in a couple of weeks I think, for one reason or another. Probably E-related, because it’s a common theme, but let’s not make that assumption because I don’t remember.

And we played Animal Crossing together when it came out, and it helped a bit! We had like two cheesy dates, B and me on one of our islands, but we had a group chat for Animal Crossing, and it was usually a group thing. Well, B flirts with S from the group. I’m a bit put off because of the thing from January and he specifically hid that he was DMing this monogamous chick who had a boyfriend. Nothing terribly dirty (as far as I’m aware), but it stirred up feelings, and E told me about it and we both came to him with it, and he agreed it would stop, it’s too soon, because we’re trying to feel secure and stuff. He fucked up, it hurt us both, we’re in a pandemic, we don’t want drama with her mono bf, can you cool it with her? And he also agreed not to chat up other women until we’ve regained some trust and normalcy. And E was sort of running that decision, she was far more uncomfortable with him talking to other women than I was—I just was afraid that a new chick would cut down on our already very limited time together that was exclusively online, already. Which probably wasn’t fair, and I should’ve communicated that better. Reassurance and whatnot would’ve helped that more than letting her say “you can’t chat up other women until I’m ready.” But he had two hot girlfriends, yknow, how terrible is it to just have that for a little while? I excused it and supported it.

And at some point it had been more than two months since I’d seen him. And I’m an extrovert—this stay at home bullshit has killed me. Like I didn’t think I would (and I still worry I won’t) physically make it through it and be living at the end, and I was more scared of my mental health than the virus. He wanted to come see me, he felt helpless to help me, and I was trying to hide the worst of it. I asked for phone calls/video game streaming. Because it would be time together. It didn’t have to be one on one time, I stressed that. I just wanted to hear him and have fun with him, because all we had were “I miss you”s and “I love you”s in text for two months... And I was met with resistance, but not from him. E would complain when we made plans to call. And the first time that we actually got to do it she wouldn’t let us have the video game AND a call because “nobody wants to hear that.” Like. I wanted innocent KH3 playing and laughing and stuff. I was not going to masturbate in his ear or something. While sexual frustration was a big problem for me, it wasn’t the most pressing. I just wanted time with him. And then we’ve gotten to Share Play KH3 on PS4 while in call a few times, if you know what that means. We got to talk to each other with his friends in the party call thing a few times, while he played a cute game for me. But... in let’s say 3 months? We’ve gotten to do it maybe 4 times? Maybe 5? Because E kept getting upset that B made any kind of plans, even if they didn’t have any plans, because neither of them was working or anything.

And eventually we decided that because they were both out of work, and only went to the grocery store and drive thrus, and I don’t work, and I had a similar lowish risk, B and I decided to bring the concept of visiting to E. Like, it’s been three months since we’ve seen each other. It was early/mid June, I think. Pandemic time is hard. Or a bit earlier when we brought it up. But I don’t think he came to see me until June because when we brought it up... she expressed anxiety. And that’s valid. But at the time we were discussing it, people were still at public parks without masks in groups, and it was allowed. And most things were still closed, restaurants included. If I went out, I stayed in my car. I did not feel comfortable getting out of my car at the park because of the sheer number of people out without masks. And one of the first things E brought up was “well, I know you guys will want to go to a hotel room and it’s not safe”... well, actually, the internet (at the time) suggests that it’s low risk, and I’ll wipe everything down with my fancy industrial wipes before we touch anything. Then she suggests we go to the park and hang out outside with masks on until we get to like a picnic blanket or something. And at the time, parks were not safe because people are stupid and out and about with masks. And the internet did not say anything about open air being much safer at this point in time. And when I brought up the concept of being uncomfortable on the ground, uncomfortable in a mask, uncomfortable being around groups of people, I was being problematic and uncompromising. But I showed her multiple places online where hotels were fairly safe/low risk, because they increased their cleaning and disinfecting and left rooms empty for a certain amount of time in between guests or something. I don’t remember now.

And in I think May, I drove my best friend an hour away to the big city that B and E live right next to. I asked if I could stop and see him, we could keep social distancing rules if they wanted. And we’d try to jump his car, which had a dead battery for a few days (which made him feel trapped because he had to wait on E to be ready to go anywhere). And in the morning, E was still fine with it. When my best friend had his life saving meds in hand and our errand was finished, we drove in their general direction and waited in a grocery store parking lot (I still didn’t have their address; I hadn’t ever been there before). E then suddenly wasn’t sure. And then she declared that she and B have to run to B’s dad’s house RIGHT NOW, for weed. Okay, yknow, we had plans, but okay... My friend and I waited a couple hours in my hot ass car because we weren’t going in anywhere. Pandemic. I had to pee, but the grocery store was too busy for me to even consider that. I held it. But then they were back and fine, but E was staying inside the house because she’s upset again. So I saw B, 6 feet or more away from me, and we tried to sort out his car, and I ended up sobbing on the way home, because I didn’t realize how much it was weighing on me, not seeing him. I saw him in one piece and the relief I felt was overwhelming. He was okay. We’d be okay. And my best friend is amazing, honestly. He’s supportive and he hears my tea, and he’s not poly (but he’s been in poly relationships, just come to the conclusion it’s not for him), but he appreciates the dynamic. And he’s generally supportive, even if I can tell he thinks I’m making a stupid decision like I did in January.

Eventually in June, he did come up and E and I were still friendly. Example A. We were gifting each other silly things. E and I talked to each other more than either of us talked to B, some days. Not intentionally like ignoring him or anything, we were just chatty. Like swapping recipes and shit. Yknow. But he came up a couple of times to the hotel we used to use.

I know at some point I mentioned to him, that because I was seeing him again, things felt regular, that I didn’t mind if he talked to other women, but he’d have to make sure E was on the same page.

And then they went to a risky af beach. E decided they were going to this beach in I think Delaware that had had 100 or so positive cases over the weekend. They went like I think it was a Monday. The Monday after they had had 100 positive cases. She had noooo trouble with her anxiety. He didn’t even seem like he wanted to go, but for E, of course he’d go. She had no anxiety about walking up and down the Boardwalk and going into little shops for like glassware and stuff. Like she was happy and excited to do it, even knowing about the recent confirmed cases. Which bothered me a bit? But I kept my mouth pretty shut (except to spill tea to my best friend, naturally).

So I had a friend invite me to go tubing at the very end of June, and I was falling apart again. I RSVP’ed going, I found a tube, and I shared my worries (I hadn’t ever gone before) with my bf (and other people) and we talked about tubing, and E mentioned she’d gone before and we talked about it. But our (we all know the guy from the bar) friend (let’s say Y), Y invited me tubing, which is how the convo came up. (And for the judgy “it’s a pandemic!” people who will invariably pop up, it was the riskiest thing I’ve done, but it was in open air and I put coolers on either side of me: I kept social distancing rules pretty well.)

And I loved it! I loved floating down the river without a care in the world. I couldn’t be on my phone, I couldn’t be playing therapist for anyone, I couldn’t be something to someone while I was on the river, because I made sure anyone who might need me knew I was busy/hard to reach all day. The only things on my plate for hours were “throw me a beer!” and “ooh I hit my butt on a rock!” It was freeing and lazy and wonderful. And I bought my own tubes, and I wanted to go again. My husband doesn’t like people or the outdoors much, but I invited everyone else I had exposed myself to during the pandemic, pretty much just my partners and my best friend. And I was excited! I wanted to share this new experience. I’m still excited. I still love it.

But so we talked about tubing more and I kept inviting them tubing, trying to make plans, and honestly, it doesn’t matter what kind of plans I try to make, either with just B or with both of them, E finds an excuse. And part of it is, E doesn’t want B to go tubing with anyone but her the first time he goes because she’s been trying to get him to go for years, apparently, and there was one time he had to cancel because he was working a warehouse job and he was just exhausted. So let’s all go, I’m not stealing the first time, I just want to go, and my husband wisely told me I’m not allowed to go by myself because dying is against our poly rules (playfully). And every time I invited both, she found an excuse. Even when her grandmother went away for a week. There’s always something, and it usually sounds like something that can 100% be moved around a little.

And then E had a first date with a guy a couple weeks ago. So July. And she ended up bringing him home, politely asking B to not be there. Politely, he swears. And he agreed and went and hung out at a pizza shop. And she had another date with that guy this past Thursday, and we said why doesn’t B just come visit me that day then. And we planned for it. Now, they both knew what my week looked like—my Sunday tubing plans were cancelled to take care of my cuddle buddy because his cat wasn’t doing well and he needed support. My Monday and Tuesday were rough, and Tuesday night I was falling apart, my brain wasn’t being kind to me. And B knew I’d recently been triggered very badly, like past trauma stuff, and I wasn’t right from that, and he was supportive and reassuring, and I needed that, it helped but obviously didn’t fix me up. But he also told me that we couldn’t go tubing because E said she had to be first. And that upset me a bit, but I accepted it. Wednesday was D&D. And I was talking to another partner about being bummed about it, and they asked me why B’s other girlfriend was controlling what we do when we’re together and.. I had no answer. So I went to B like, hey, I’ve noticed this pattern and it’s actually bothering me a lot, I need you to sit down and have a conversation about healthy boundaries. Like. This isn’t okay, I feel controlled by someone I’m not dating... And he basically said “I brought it up and she said no” I think. And I .. got upset. I saw red. I don’t matter enough to.. talk about healthy boundaries? Like. I guess I wasn’t very specific, but I know I brought up her feelings and how we do tiptoe around them all the time. And when I got upset he basically said “I’m not talking to you right now.” And he turned off his phone. I don’t DO the silent treatment. If you can’t talk to me like a grownup, I can’t have a relationship with you.

We had this big blowup, I threw it in her face that she’s allowed to fuck someone else in their bed but he isn’t allowed to see his girlfriend and just go do things with me. Every activity has to be run by her. And we are ruled by E’s feelings and mood. And I was not polite. And I ended up having him call me, ready to tell him we were done, because of the silent treatment thing over something that needs talking about. And I didn’t, I melted, I love him, but in that phone call, I started with one example where her feelings controlled what we did or were allowed or not allowed to do and another one and another one until I had like ten examples... They just kept flowing. And he was like “yeah, you have a point.” And he agreed to go talk about it again.

He texted me a couple hours later to tell me that I was wrong, she doesn’t control him, or me for that matter. And he accused me of gaslighting him. And I’m like “hold up. I told you things that YOU told me. I just repeated back to you exactly what you’ve been venting to me about for months!” And I restated the things I said on the phone. And he was like wait a second. And he admitted shit wasn’t healthy between them. He brought up that period of time when they weren’t dating, how nice it was.

And he came to visit Thursday. I originally told him Wednesday I didn’t know if I wanted to see him, after all the crap, but the more I thought about it, the more sure I was that because I raised a stink about her controlling him, she’s not going to LET him see me again for a while... so I said please do come. And I was glad to see him.

And we’ve been fairly light for a couple of days, but it came up again Saturday while I was getting ready to go tubing again. And I told him a bit more in depth about my mother and how she’s a narcissist, while sitting on the riverbank. I shared how she gaslit me and manipulated me on the daily by using her feelings to guilt me and my feelings to shame me or shove me into something. She loved making me feel crazy. She’d do something and then deny it, and I’m like “I was here, I watched you do it.” But she’d tell me to stop lying until I believed her sometimes. I explained that I have a bad memory and I can’t always remember details or examples of things, and I hate it because it was constantly used against me. And I still have a bad memory, worse so since I hit my head and had a bad concussion when I was 20. And I told him how we stopped talking for a bit and she sucked me back in by showing me what could be, false promises and fake affection. And when I let her back in, it was exactly that. I explained that narcissists do that. They’ll act nice to get you back under their thumb. And then they’ll eventually start their shit again. There are subreddits dedicated to victims of this, and I told him where to look. He said he doesn’t think she’s a narcissist (and dear god I hope not) but then I pointed out her grandmother. And I explained “fleas” (the bad behaviors we pick up from being around them so long). And maybe she just has some metaphorical fleas. But if he doesn’t get her to see there’s a problem, she isn’t going to work on herself or their relationship. Relationships take work and communication. If you aren’t willing to do either, you probably shouldn’t be in a relationship. And if he can’t set boundaries with her, I can’t stay in our relationship, because theirs is affecting ours, and I’ve hit a wall... and I wrote this long thing and I sent it to him, and asked if it was acceptable to send to her (because he brought up that if I message her ANYTHING right now it’ll ruin his whole day because she’ll be upset). He didn’t answer on that yet. He’s had 3 days.

So, I can’t have it just be “oh I’m pissy because things that aren’t true”... I do still think something needs to give. I do cater to other people’s feelings a lot, and I try to keep mine small for other people. And it bothers me a lot, that, it absolutely still feels like we’re tiptoeing around E’s feelings, always. And it doesn’t feel like there are healthy boundaries, and I don’t think I would’ve gotten upset like I did if there were healthy boundaries. I am sorry I got so irrationally angry and upset, and I was really unkind and I’m sorry I called either of you a name. That was uncalled for.

It’s not just about tubing, but it also is. Like. First, I didn’t want to go tubing because E brought up tubing. I didn’t remember that she did. I wanted to go tubing because Y invited me to go tubing. I went tubing because Y invited me tubing. I want to go tubing because I liked how I felt when I went tubing with Y and his group. I get that wanting to be there for the first time is a thing, because he shrugged it off before. How many times have I invited you guys both tubing? There was plenty of opportunity for it to be a group thing. So it feels childish for E to be upset that I want to go too? I literally can’t understand it. It was all I wanted. And not even because “with B,” necessarily, which y’all know, because I invited just E, I harassed at least a dozen people to go with me. Tubing makes me feel free of responsibility for a few hours. I feel like nothing matters in a good way. I’m on the river, nobody can need me right now, I’m helpless to help anyone. I feel weirdly free. And I wanted to share that feeling. I literally don’t care if it’s the first time or the hundredth time. And the concept that E needs to own the first time, it bothers me a lot? Because what else does she “own”? I asked B if I could take him to see Sonic when it was in theaters... it was a no, because E wants to go. How many other things (that don’t directly affect anyone else) am I not allowed to do with a person I’m dating because of someone who isn’t in my relationship with that person? That control feels .. shitty.

And yknow it’s not always “E said I can’t,” it’s almost always “E would be upset if.” And maybe it’s not an intentional thing, but E’s feelings always run the show, and my feelings never seem to matter and it keeps coming back to this, doesn’t it? Like she’s the primary, the anchor, the nesting parter... so’s <my husband>, for me. And he doesn’t let his sad feels keep me from activities like tubing or movies or D&D or...

And <my best friend> brought up another point last night. I brought up how E decides things? Like how it had to be right THEN that you guys visit B’s dad for weed? Do you not remember the early pandemic stuff? We couldn’t call each other without a “nobody wants to hear that.” (Innocent KH3 steaming with a call..?) It was a flippant comment, sure, but like... wow. We couldn’t see each other because E’s anxiety, and to a point that was fine. But then it was... where it was allowed. A hotel? Low risk, not allowed. E said it wasn’t allowed, it made her anxious, so naturally we couldn’t do that. But the park where things are uncomfortable, there’s more people, no masks, higher risk of virus, zero possibility of nudity, she was okay with that. With higher virus risk. And right, the dad/weed thing. Remember when <my best friend> and I were in Philly for his thing and E was waffling on whether we could see each other or not? When I was already around the corner. And then suddenly “E said we have to go to my dad’s right now for weed” as in, B couldn’t see me for five minutes and then go, even though I was literally around the corner. <my best friend> was with me for that. He reminded ME about that.

It feels a lot like E’s feelings run the show. Intentional or not. If it was “E is upset by this, I need to give her more reassurance,” that’s how I feel that should go. And I still want an unbiased outside view (a poly for 25+ years life coach who does Zoom sessions) because maybe I’m wrong! But “E is upset by this, so I can’t do this with you.” Sounds unhealthy and controlling, even if it isn’t intentional. Maybe it’s B shoving that, because he’s putting E’s feelings on a pedestal? Which, he has done, he assumes E’s feelings sometimes, we’ve all talked about it, he assumes sometimes that she’ll never be okay with XYZ, and we’ve come back at him like “give her a chance!” Which, still agree. And if it’s that, let’s work on that. If it’s needing a healthier boundary like what “this would upset E” means, let’s work on that. And I have examples of how I think I’ve handled that sort of thing in a healthier way.

<husband> was upset when I went to <kink convention> last year. Did I just not go? No. I went. I reassured him, I compromised (he picked me up a day and a half before the event was over), and we discussed it, but he did not ever make me feel like I CAN’T go. He was worried about money too, which is fair. But it also wasn’t costing us because I went with friends who didn’t mind me sharing a bed they had empty and I volunteered.

<husband> is upset when I’m not home when he’s getting ready for work. When I started doing that regularly on D&D nights, we sat and talked about it, and yeah, he’s not happy with it, but he understands that D&D is important to me, and I still make sure he’s okay, and he has what he needs before I go.

I was upset when he saw <husband’s new chick> 3 times in 4 days. Did I stop him from seeing her? No. If he had asked to see her a fourth time? We would’ve talked about that too. It upset me, yeah. I had feelings. I did not let my feelings dictate where he is and isn’t allowed to go or who he is or isn’t allowed to see or what they’re allowed to do together (except where it could directly affect me, like safe sex and not having guests at home, which with both agreed to). I asked for reassurance. I got reassurance. Not even just from <husband>, but from B too. I have a support system, and you guys do, too, you have friends, each other, me... I wouldn’t be so upset if y’all didn’t matter to me.

Can you guys acknowledge that I have a valid point or two and that my feelings are valid? Because sometimes I feel like some halfass person he’s allowed to see when E permits, when she’s feeling generous sometimes, and that’s not a good feeling for me, feeling like someone I’m not in a relationship with dictates exactly what I can and can’t do when it does not actually affect them.

I’m at a point where if they can’t find healthy boundaries soon and at least TRY to keep them, I can’t stay in a relationship with him, and I’ve made that very clear. He says he wants us both in his life. Am I wrong? Like I’m sure I’ve been wrong at some points but... am I wrong to ask him to work on making his primary relationship healthier? Am I shoving myself in where I shouldn’t be? Because if we were just friends and I noticed how she controls him, I’d probably still be telling him he deserves better treatment than that.

I know at some point I also begged for “therapy,” in the form of a local life coach who’s been poly for 20+ years or something who does Zoom calls and said they would help moderate things and such. And E was originally on board, but it didn’t happen. Now E says (to B) that she’ll never do it because all I want is to have someone tell me I’m right. And that’s not why I want it... I want an unbiased person to tell me how we can make this work better for all of us. How this can be healthy. And I want ALL of us to hear it, not just me. If I’m wrong, I’m wrong, and I’ll apologize and try to do better. If I can’t handle it, I’ll just see myself out.

I want to point out that I have not and will not suggest to him to end his relationship with her. That’s his business. I’m not trying to split them up, at all. I’m asking him to work on what’s there, because he’s being treated unfairly. If anyone’s splitting, it’s me. I’ll rip a chunk of my heart out to save my brain if I have to. The concept that these are examples I CAN remember makes me wonder how many I’m forgetting because my brain doesn’t remember things well.

Submitted August 02, 2020 at 10:46AM by fleetingfirework via reddit https://ift.tt/3go6GnJ

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