#the bad batch negativity

[obiwanwhat]

Despairing over how interesting crosshair’s arc could have been if the writers actually bothered with logical characterizations.

[heyclickadee]

So, here’s the thing. The finale is weird. Yes, I’m hurt by the fact that Tech didn’t come back and that a character that’s very near and dear to my heart was badly handled, and that will never sit right with me. But even apart from that, the finale fundamentally does not function as a piece of storytelling or as the end to this story. I’m glad that people are enjoying it, and I will never tell anyone not to. But I don’t think it works. (I get very negative about the TBB finale under the cut.)

It’s not just the Tech stuff or the CX-2 stuff (which may very well have been the same stuff) that got dropped. It’s *everything*. Every theme, Every narrative thread besides retrieving Omega, every character arc except marginally Omega’s, Echo’s (also marginal), and Emerie’s, which was the shortest and gets wrapped up by her deciding to help Echo rescue the kids. It all stops. It makes everything that came before seem cheap and pointless if you take it into account. And this is so, so frustrating for me, because the entire show was driving towards this incredibly rich payoff, it could have been immaculate, and then it whiffed the ball so bad in the last episode that it didn’t just miss, it managed to knock over the bleachers and set the entire court on fire.

Some examples:

1. This season had a really interesting exploration of Crosshair’s PTSD via his hand tremor and how it was something he can learn to manage, but not something that would ever fully go away. Aaaaand then his hand gets chopped off. One, that was stupid. I’ve seen some excellent posts (here’s one by @the-bi-space-ace) detailing why that was a terrible way to handle Crosshair’s lingering trauma, and others talking about how the idea there was that Crosshair needed to move on and it was severing his last ties with the empire. The former, I agree with; the latter, I don’t, because not only—not only!—does this episode stop dealing with Crosshair’s trauma, it doesn’t even deal with having cut off his hand! It just sort of occurs. No one reacts to it, no one says anything about it, there’s no follow up or commentary, nothing happens as a result—it’s an event which occurs with no results coming after it. It may as well be an animation error. You can say it was about Crosshair needing to let go and move on, but that’s something you have to project on to the text, not something that’s actually offered by it. It’s empty.

2. Crosshair again: We also have the lingering issue of Crosshair’s guilt and the fact that he never seems to get to a point where it’s resolved. There’s set up for a resolution. We have that, “Sure you have,” like about Crosshair from Rampart. We also have Crosshair saying he deserves whatever happens to him in Tantiss. And then…no pushback. No resolution. No moment of Crosshair realizing that he doesn’t need to carry that burden. Nothing that says he didn’t deserve what happened to him. He had all this character development this season, but he needed - last little push to forgive himself—and we never get any indication that he does. It, like his trauma, gets dropped like a rock.

3. Hey! More Crosshair! A good chunk of Crosshair’s arc this season was about learning that anyone can change, first, and that no one is beyond saving. Eeexcept that goes no where.

4. Which brings me to my next point: There is set up for the CXs to be saved. Even if we’re laboring under the conclusion that CX-2 was never intended to be Tech at any point in the writing process (I have. Doubts. Yes, I’m calling the creative team liars, here, but with the understanding that they have contracts that may require them to lie), we do have the set up where we learn the electrocyanide zappers can be removed, and with Rex offering forgiveness to CX-1. “Whatever they did to you, whatever you’ve done, you’re still one of us.” CX-Tech or no, Crosshair’s arc was tied up with the CX plot, and because he’s the one the CXs tend to react to—or, at least, understands what was done to them—the set up was there for him to help save and maybe rehab the CXs. At the least, there was an indication that they could be saved. Eeexcept nope! That gets dropped like a rock, too, and they’re not going to deal with it. Time for maximum carnage.

5. Hunter’s arc actually takes a step backwards. Sure, he gets a technically happy ending, but because the squad is basically in the same place they were in “Pabu” back in season two (down a member but successfully hiding from the Empire in a safe place), it negates Hunter’s development towards actually taking action—and actually hurts Echo’s arc, too.

There’s been this tension all through the show between just sitting things out on the one hand (Hunter’s way) and taking direct action despite the futility on the other (Echo’s way), but instead of finding some kind of middle ground or third road, it sort of comes back around to saying that, actually, Hunter was right, they should have just gone to Idaflor back in episode three and never left even though the Pabu invasion said that no, you can’t just hide, and even Hunter’s development was moving in the opposite direction. And this also means that Echo never reaches a point where he feels like he can walk away and that he doesn’t have to get himself killed doing this. Despite development otherwise they both end up back at that conversation in “Tipping Point” without any move in either direction or resolution of that tension.

6. Omega. Okay, Omega probably comes out the best after the finale, and, conceptually, I actually love the idea of Omega becoming a pilot even if the epilogue falls a little flat for me. But stuff with Omega still got dropped, including:

- The force stuff. We have two episodes dealing with m-count (after learning in episode three what Omega was created to do). We also have Ventress telling Omega that she doesn’t have a high m-count as far as she can see, Crosshair immediately calling Ventress out for lying, and then Ventress basically saying, “Yeah, no shit, but if she has force potential she’d have to leave you behind, and it doesn’t matter what your opinion on that is, so I’m not dealing with that.” Aaaand then,m. That. Goes nowhere. Despite a bit of set up for Omega connecting to the force as early as episode one, and some more set up in Tribe, and that whole subplot of her learning how to meditate, and so on.

Now, I don’t think that it was ever going to turn out that Omega did actually have a high m-count or that she had a particularly powerful natural connection to the force. I think she’s probably got a low or baseline m-count. What I do think, however, is that we were going to see Omega connect anyway as a refutation of Palpatine’s and Hemlock’s entire scheme. Their goal (based off of the ST) was to create extremely force sensitive clones as a way for Palpatine to jump bodies without having to waste time re-learning how to connect to the force. You know—dark side, quick and easy path, focus on eugenics and raw power, etc. Had Omega connected anyway because of her big heart and desire to protect, it would have not only paid off that set up, it would have also refuted Palpatine’s and Hemlock’s entire goal. It would have worked so well thematically and the set up was THERE.

- branching off of that, I think the Omega force stuff was probably tied to the Zillo beast. We also had a through-line of Omega being good with animals and taking the time to calm them instead of responding with violence. The first time we see this is in “Replacements,” where she realizes that the ordo moon dragon (also an electrophage—I don’t know what to call these things—like the zillo beast) is just scared and hungry. This is all conjectural, but it still fits with what was set up.

- Moving on from the force stuff, we also had a through-line that started way back in episode two of the series, but which was really emphasized this season, about Omega feeling like she’s the cause of the bad things that happen to the people she loves. This is why she gives herself up during the Pabu invasion in the first place. This is never resolved! We get Omega’s confidence boost when she realizes she has the force kids to take care of, but we never get a moment where Omega realizes that she has no reason to feel guilty. She’s the glue that holds the family together! But nope! Also dropped!

- But wait! There’s more! The first two season finales have Omega watching someone she loves fall away while she’s helpless to do anything to save them. That’s perfect set up to put Omega in the same situation, but be able to save them, because she’s finally come into her own. Instead we just end up with her needing to be rescued again.

- Omega has this big speech in Shadows of Tantiss about spending her life stuck in one place or another against her will, and how she refuses to be confined like that. I don’t think Omega would have been happy just staying on Pabu for the entire rest of her childhood and young adult life, even if I think she’d want to use it on a home base. But! Dropped!

7. I still can’t get over the fact that the zillo beast is on screen for about two minutes and then just. Walks away. It’s a large beastie that’s been locked in confinement for a while and is probably hungry. And somehow it didn’t go straight to the reactors for some delicious energy smoothies. Like. It. Did. The. Last. Time. Someone. Let. It. Out. But no, that would have required it sticking around for something that was probably dropped sooooo ZILLO BEAST EXIT STAGE RIGHT I GUESS. (Edit: I have been reminded that Hemlock does say to turn off the generators once the zillo beast is out, so that at least makes sense. I still think the zillo beast should have stuck around to do something.)

8. You notice how there are a ton of commandos around Tantiss, even up through “Flash Strike?” And how they kind of largely cease to exist? And how Echo says that there are far more clones imprisoned in Tantiss than anyone thought? And then how they rescue, like, a dozen guys? Because we never find our way back to those cells Crosshair was held in during season two? And how Tarkin does mention not wanting to allow clone dissidence to turn into an uprising back in “The Summit?” Because I did. This show was never going to be about a clone rebellion, that wasn’t the point, buuut I do think the set up was there for an uprising at Tantiss itself. Begin the series with clones losing their agency en masse, end the series with some of the most subdued clones taking it back. Except nope, dropped, soooo we gotta pretend the commandos don’t exist and murder the hell out of poor Scorch.

9. SPEAKING OF. The batch does kill clones sometimes, that does happen, but they do at least usually make some kind of effort to be non-lethal even when they’re not using stun, and times when they do resort to lethal tactics are usually born out of extreme circumstances. Not here, though!! NO HESITATION MAXIMUM CARNAGE. For. Reasons I guess.

10. There’s one point IN THE FINALE where Echo mentions signaling for Rex. This never comes up again. Rex does not show up. In fact, despite being called, “The Cavalry Has Arrived,” the cavalry does not in fact arrive. There is no cavalry. Yes, I know it’s a reference to Wrecker’s first line. But I’m sorry if you call an episode that YOU HAD BETTER HAVE A CAVALRY SHOW UP. Especially when you have a one about calling them in! But that also!! Got dropped like a rock!!

11. One positive: the moment Crosshair and Hunter leaning on each other to make that shot was nice.

12. Sorry, but Hemlock’s death was deeply unsatisfying. Let’s do something more than just shoot him multiple times, okay?

13. Rampart’s death, on the other hand, was incredibly satisfying. That said, the conversation about project necromancer? I’m dying. It’s actually hilarious, because it basically goes like:

“Tell me about project necromancer.”

“Wow! How interesting!”

I’m.

Are you serious?

I’m going to become the Joker.

Yes, I know we know what project necromancer is because of a different show. That’s not the point, the POINT. Is that any pay off for project necromancer in this show got dropped. And that’s deeply frustrating from a narrative perspective.

14. Speaking of, we never find out anything more regarding that partially successful m-count transfer from episode three.

15. We also never do anything with those medical records!

16. And Omega has a whole crossbow she never actually shoots despite the fact that her role on the team was as a sharpshooter after Crosshair left, and despite her getting advice from Crosshair on how to be a sniper. The literal chekov’s gun never goes off. I’m going to go eat gravel.

17. AZI, likewise, got toted around for three seasons for no reason. Probably could have helped with the medical records. Given that he was a Kaminoan medical droid. Oh, and that Omega was Nala Se’s medical assistant. So. Hmm.

18. You can cut everything in the season past episode five and skip straight to the epilogue and end up in the same place. This is not because the other episodes are filler. Far from it! The other episodes are great and deliver some amazing set up. But, because the finale does nothing with that set up, it doesn’t go anywhere.

19. And you know what else? From a narrative perspective, there’s no reason for Hunter, Wrecker, and Crosshair to be in these episodes at all. They don’t accomplish anything and make everyone else’s job harder. Omega was doing fine, she would have gotten out with the kids with just Echo and Emerie, and Tarkin was coming to cut off Hemlock’s funding and shut everything down once Hemlock lost control of the facility anyway. I can only suppose that the whole reason they were in this episode ended up getting dropped, too.

20. CX-2. Listen, the answer we get about CX-2 isn’t that he’s not Tech. It’s, “Maybe, maybe not—you don’t get to know.” Because. He’s the only CX whose mask never comes off. After a season and a half worth of buildup of unmasking CXs and people pressing them to learn their names. It’s not a no, it’s a non-answer, which is far less satisfying.

And finally:

21: CX-Tech. I’ve seen some people speculating that there was a planned CX-Tech reveal that got scrapped at the last minute—dropped, along with the other points I’ve already laid out. And, honestly? I have to agree. Despite what the creative team says, because even their denials kind of come out weird (like the Kiners saying that the large brass chord in “Battle of the Snipers” was just a nice sounding brass chord and not a reference to “Plan 99.” They also basically say that the sacrifice theme from “Plan 99” is Tech’s leitmotif. Which. Is all over “Battle of the Snipers.” That theme. Not Crosshair’s. In a scene. Where he’s supposed to be fighting a shadow of himself who Totally Isn’t Tech but we put Tech’s leitmotif here and layered it in Techno music but nooo that was never supposed to be him. Nope. I mean, come on. I’m not stupid).This post is already long enough, so here are some posts by @apocalyp-tech-a pointing out the reasons why I think this was the case, and one by @eriexplosion pointing out why CX-2 as Crosshair’s shadow and only that doesn’t quite work. I don’t need to go over the trail that was laid out again. Up to the finale this was a character that had more screen time—and far more solo screen time—than Echo. Some people will not stop yelling that there was no evidence, and. No. I’m sorry, there was. I can’t agree.

And some people might say, well, okay, the show misdirected you guys and pulled off a twist by having CX-2 be no one, and well, I can’t agree with that either. Twists only function if the twist is more satisfying than the conclusion to which the story seems to be leading. And I’m sorry, you can’t tell me that a season and a half of CX building and three seasons (because I can find set up all the way back in episode one of the show) for Tech survival culminating in what amounts to a boss fight is more satisfying than getting to see Omega have her big brother back. You can’t.

The reason I bring this up last is because, yes, I think CX-Tech was a plot dropped at the last minute, but because I also think that it’s the dropped plot that ripped everything else apart. CX-Tech was an incredibly efficient way to tie up most of the lingering plot threads and dropped character development.

-Crosshair’s guilt? Okay, he faces down the end result of his decision to stay with the empire and possibly something he knew about (Tech would be in this situation because of Crosshair, and were given hints that Crosshair knew) and is finally able to forgive himself because they’re able to save him.

- Hunter’s decision to finally take action and be proactive rather than reactive is validated, because it’s the thing that finally gets him his entire family back.

- Echo saves someone the same way he was saved, and maybe he realizes that it is enough and that he doesn’t have to be a soldier forever.

- Wrecker’s efforts to keep the family together and keep Hunter sane finally pay off.

- Omega is able to protect the people she charges about and finally, finally has all of her brothers.

- Thematically, it rounds off each member of the batch (Omega included) traumatically losing and then taking back their agency in a way that correlates directly to who and how they are as people.

- It also rounds out the OG batchers each being haunted by a failure that has to do with the thing that makes them special.

- You get pushback against “Clone Force 99 died with Tech! We’re not that squad anymore!” because no, it didn’t, and they’re more than a squad, they’re a family.

- It comes around and closes the wound opened in Aftermath and ripped back open by Return to Kamino: they go in for Omega and lose someone, but here, they go in for Omega and get someone back.

- Would allow Tech to close off his lingering threads and finish his character development BECAUSE THOSE REMAINED UNFINISHED.

- Completely subverts the “bury your disabled” trope by making sure we know the character whose disability was explored the most’s life is more important than his death. Seems like an important thing to do in a show that is kind of about disability. Just saying.

- Makes the lack of closure and little mentions of Tech make sense from a storytelling POV because the necessarily catharsis would come from his return.

- And it would actually add some triumph to the ending. Yes, this little family survived. They outlived the war. They’re together, despite every effort to rip them apart. They made it, despite the dark times, despite the Empire, despite what they were made to do and be. They defied all of that. That would have been so, so satisfying.

As is, without Tech, without that CX-Tech reveal, we sort of end up in this weird place where all the themes are half-baked. They are more than soldiers…except Tech, who had to fall out of the story as a soldier (despite us getting the clearest glimpse of what his life outside of soldiering could have been). They get to live how they want…except Tech. They don’t leave their own behind, except Tech that one time. They should value their own lives a little…except Tech. They’re more than a squad, they’re a family…except Tech, the only one besides Omega to say that’s what they are, doesn’t get to see it, and they don’t get to have him around. We begin the series with a broken family and end it with a family broken differently. That’s not dynamic.

So there’s no really punch to the ending. It’s sort of…well, okay, we tortured a family for three seasons I guess. Relieved that the survivors are doing okay, but that’s kind of it.

22. The finale in general is just sort of a bunch of events which happen, but which don’t lead into one other. It’s weird. It’s not that too much happens, it’s that almost nothing happens. Nothing of substance, in a way. The finale is, in a word, the only true filler episode in the entire show.

TL;DR: I think a lot of stuff got dropped from the finale. I don’t know why. I suspect that it might have to do with the strikes—basically, the script was done, most everything was recorded and boarded, and then when the finale was in production they got sudden drastic budget cuts (this was during a time when the studios were disappearing entire completed shows and movies as tax write-offs), had to gut what they had planned, and couldn’t bring the writers or even showrunners in to smooth over what was gutted or to even pick what got taken out. They wouldn’t have gotten to choose or compress things. They were on strike (because the studios wouldn’t negotiate), and whoever did choose ended up just ripping out the stuff that would actually take any time or budget to deal with (so, basically everything I laid out), killing it (literally), and using the remains of what they already had recorded. And who knows how they had to fill in gaps.

But I don’t know for sure. Maybe it was that. Maybe it was a last minute decision to take certain plot points and put them in a different show. Maybe it was executive mandate. Maybe the creative team just sucked the whole time (that’s one I have a hard time buying—we have four other shows and most of this one that tell me that they’re better at their jobs than this). Maybe everyone said screw it, who even cares anymore at the same time.

Maybe nothing happened. Who knows? I strongly suspect something bad did happen behind the scenes that was out of the creative team’s hands—I really do, because that’s the only way I can make sense of this—but until we can get someone talking without six layers of PR and NDAs, we won’t know for sure. All I know is that The Bad Batch is an amazing show with 46 episodes that range from “fine-but-clunky” to “IMMACULATE,” with more leaning towards immaculate than not, and some incredible set up, and one episode so nonsensically bad it makes me want to eat drywall.

It’s just that the one terrible episode comes right at the end.

I love The Bad Batch. I love every single episode and all the things that were set up, but…eh, I think I’ll be ignoring the finale until further notice.

[unwhitewashthebadbatch]

With The Bad Batch now over, the hope for many fans of color now is that future Star Wars animation will avoid any racism in writing or character design; that it will respect fans and characters of color, Jewish fans, and disabled and ND fans in its pursuit of telling a story.

Nobody deserves to see a series dedicated to whitewashed characters who are written to be genetically superior to men of color. Nobody deserves to see an antisemitic stereotype on their screen. And nobody deserves to see ableism in their shows.

If future showrunners truly believe Star Wars is for everyone, they'll do the work to root out their unconscious biases, learn about stereotyping, and create a show that reflects the diversity of the Star Wars fandom.

There should never again be any room for racism, ableism, or antisemitism in a Star Wars project.

[verpineshatterrifle]

it's my blog and i'll cry if i want to

i'm still so upset that they put scorch in the bad batch, gave him no personality whatsoever, confirmed it was in fact him by name, but treated him as basically just a mid-tier baddie

when if they had done the EXACT SAME THING but make it sev instead, it actually answers questions and gives some sort of resolution instead of just saying 'hey fuck you, the rest of delta is probably dead but we're not gonna give any actual real answers, scorch is alone and has no personality left'

if it was sev, we know that the empire found sev on kashyyyk, it implies that the rest of delta MAYBE got out of the gar

and then ALL YOU HAVE TO DO is to NOT kill him and just let us all believe they reunite

they didnt HAVE to do the most depressing thing possible to delta BUT THEY DID and im still upset

[tonyskittymug]

I understand that Crosshair needed to realize that his value goes beyond being a great sniper...

but I don't see why the narrative needed to cut his hand off in order for him to understand that and I don't think it was a blessing in disguise

because the tremors in his hand had nothing to do with his hand

[itsindiana]

gang i don't know what to do with myself i need more than 2 more bad batch episodes . c'mere and yap about anything bad batch / clone / etc etc related i need to feel alive

[clownery-and-fuckery]

I dont think I'll ever get over Tech's face during his and Omega's talk.

The way he was so open and genuinely showed Omega he was hurt by her words, and thought hard to articulate what he really wanted to say. He didn't understand at first, at first it didn't make sense why she was so angry. But once he did, once he realised it why she had a hard time, he tried.

He didn't know exactly how to say it, because he's used to his brothers knowing- but you can hear him use less neutral "We'll move past this" language to "It's hard. I dont always like how i do it, but I care."

He reaffirms that he understands he doesn't have a conventional way of showing his love, but he still loves infinitely, like she does.

It makes his line "there are many like us" line mean so much more. Because this is him saying I love you. This is him showing her he looks up to his brothers- he sees them, he always looks to them and he adores them. They've always been the most important thing to him, and with Omega he learns to show that. It's beautiful, it makes me sob.

I could write so much more on him.... on this scene, on all his scenes. I am him and he is me, it's so- I can't describe how nice it is to really see yourself and know that it's okay. That people understand and even enjoy those qualities. Getting mushy but he really does hold a special place in my heart.

[starqueensthings]

question of the day: will I ever stop crying over The Outpost?

taglist: @anxiouspineapple99 @sinfulsalutations @starrylothcat @nobody-expects-the-inquisitorius @secondaryrealm @dystopicjumpsuit @freesia-writes @blueink-bluesoul @littlemissmanga @523rdrebel

[writingforfun0714]

I think the problems of TBB started in the Bad Batch episodes of TCW if I’m being honest, because of their treatment of Echo. While CF99 might’ve been planned characters (I remember reading somewhere that GL wanted a ‘unique’ clone squad in TCW), the fact is that Echo is a fan favorite and to treat him with such disrespect definitely rubbed a lot of fans the wrong way.

In TCW, CF99 learn that Echo is alive and not actually a traitor and eventually accepts him into their squad as they learn that ‘not all regs are bad’. That’s all well and good but wouldn’t it have been nice if, I don’t know, CF99 actually fucking apologized? Like yeah, adopting him into the squad is a nice gesture, but by not apologizing, it’s like they avoid taking responsibility for thinking ‘all regs are bad’. CF99 see Echo as different like them, they don’t see themselves as one of the ‘regs’, which is a problem in a clone-centric show like what many fans claim TBB to be. This problem of not taking responsibility and actually apologizing for wrongdoings continues in TBB show and is especially noticeable in S3 with Hunter and Crosshair and even with Crosshair and Howzer. I noticed it in S2 as well with that Omega/Tech episode (2x9). Like yeah it confirmed he’s autistic but in that situation Tech is the adult and should’ve apologized to Omega for how he talked to her. Having autism doesn’t excuse being rude, especially when the dynamic is one of an adult/child.

Then all through TBB S1 Echo continues to get sidelined (along with Tech) up until S1 ep10, when the problems of the show compound. Echo should have been the focus for 1x10 Common Ground. The basic plot is that CF99 are hired to rescue a Seperatist senator from Raxus while Omega has to stay at Cid’s bar for her ‘protection’. Hunter leaves Omega behind but expects her to be a member of the squad and is surprised when the others have to remind him that he left her behind. I can understand what the writers were going for but the execution of that small line of dialogue was wrong (the wording and placement in the scene). Personally I’d prefer a sort of lamenting inner monologue with each member instead, reflecting on how they each miss Omega in different ways or something. They did a POV change in 1x9 so I think an inner monologue moment would’ve been a cool choice. That whole time on the mission the Batch question Echo when it really should’ve been Echo grappling with his trauma regarding Seperatists and his torture. This whole episode really doesn’t make sense due to the ‘S1 reset’ TBB go through. You’d think after their TCW arc that there would be no need to question Echo, that they would understand why he has such grievances. But no, TBB ‘resets’ the whole squad (aside from Echo) and makes them almost completely different from their Clone Wars counterparts (hence the memes of frat boy Hunter vs dad Hunter).

Another issue is the marketing and how the creators/people that worked on the show interacted with the fans. From what I can remember, TBB was never a ‘spin-off’ of TCW but more of a ‘successor’ mostly due to the use of the same animation. TBB was always marketed as a ‘dark’ kids show despite showing things we’ve already seen before in SW animation. We’ve seen Force sensitive babies being taken, we’ve seen clones realize they are little more than property, we’ve seen kids having to grow up faster due to their situation, we’ve seen child slaves, and even death on screen (Echo, Fives, Gregor, Savage Oppress, Satine, etc). All within TCW and Rebels (Disney’s first SW show). TBB is extremely tame compared to what we’ve seen previously. To make it worse, those that worked on the show would post ‘teasers’ online, trying to engage with the fans. I always had a strange sense of disappointment after every single episode due to how people like Jennifer Corbett or the Kiners ‘tease’ fans by posting ‘relevant’ memes or hints about an upcoming episode and after each episode, I remembered thinking ‘so they lied’. Teasing a winter soldier arc for CX-2 is definitely my top grievance with this particular problem. A red herring is supposed to make sense. CX-2 could’ve been anyone else besides Tech if they wanted to keep him dead (Dogma, Cody, Kix, Slick, etc).

The last main issue TBB has (that isn’t the blatant racism) is how ableist the show is. I don’t care if it was not intentional because honestly 3 whole seasons consisting of about 15-16eps is more than enough time to fix this problem. Now this show was already on thin ice for me, but to gloss over Echo so hard in S1 definitely put me off of this show. The way Echo is written in S2, as if he’s wrong for wanting to help Rex (how many times does Hunter ask him ‘when will it be enough?’ ‘You know it’s not worth the risk right?’ Seriously fuck Hunter for that especially). Then sidelining him again in S3 to focus on Crosshair (which is a whole other post). In S3, we get to learn Crosshair has to deal with his trauma, isn’t that an interesting concept—ooh-wait no let’s just cut off his shaky hand after spending an episode of ‘meditating’. It was like Hunter/Wrecker/Fennec go off on side mission while the b-plot is Crosshair/Omega meditating. This episode was frustrating but this whole show is made up of frustrating writing decisions that quite frankly, I had gotten used to by S3.

[clonehub]

also notice how at no point during this entire series did they focus on wreckers development as a character the way they did literally everyone else.

[obiwanwhat]

Omega, a clone raised on Kamino around an army of soldiers literally grown to be sold to the republic: slavery exists :o people can be sold?

[hazelnatcoffee]

BEING 100% TRANSPARENT AS SOMEONE WHO SURVIVED THE VOLTRON FANDOM:

I DON'T THINK THEY'LL GIVE US TECH BACK

I DON'T THINK THE BAD BATCH GETS A HAPPY ENDING

I DON'T THINK OMEGA'S CHARACTER ARC GETS UPHELD

THEY'RE GOING TO FUCK US OVER

THAT'S ALL

[mother-mommy]

TBB 03x09 SPOILERS

(Also a warning, I'm just expressing my frustration with this episode here so if you enjoyed it and are wouldn't want to have your fun spoiled with negativity, feel free to skip this rant. Now if you're also bitter about it like I am, welcome, you're not alone lol but to the point)

They brought Ventress back for THIS? Really?

They spat on a satisfying, emotional conclusion for the character's arc and journey, only to make her play teacher, be ooc, fight yet Another tentacle monster of the season and then fly away immediately after, cause they just needed someone to conveniently Force-test The Main Character Syndrome Personified, while also being well liked enough to generate hype from being in the trailer. Wow.

And they didn't even pick the more logical route of explaining her suddenly rising from the dead with the already established, famous for creating the Undead, Nightsister magic since she was buried in a lake on Dathomir?? Pfft who cares right, let's do a "Somehow Palpatine returned" all over again and make it sound like she's a cat and has 9 lives lol

As a Ventress fan, and a person who read and liked the Dark Disciple, but also a Bad Batch fan (at least a fan of the concept💀), to me this episode played out in one of the worst ways it possibly could've and I'm pretty disappointed but I guess not surprised. I only wish they wouldn't have tried to give us a false hope that it wouldn't mess with the established canon when they had to know well it would in fact just be another pointless retcon.

[verpineshatterrifle]

okay so your post abt alpha-17 and the other alpha arcs got me thinking (and im sorry for using you as sw google but in my mind you're Alpha Legends Lore mutual) who ARE the oldest clones? I feel like everything got... really confusing with a bunch of super secret REAL first clones getting shuffled into the order. is boba the oldest? in my mind it goes 1 boba 2 nulls 3 alphas 4 the rest of the initial clones that obi-wan saw in aotc but I have no bloody clue 😭

I AM HONORED TO BE YOUR LEGENDS LORE GOOGLE MUTUAL

ok so. sources probably conflict bc this is star wars, of course they do. what i care about is repcomm so we're just gonna go with that as our primary source with wookieepedia as secondary sources

first we gotta get some dates. unfortunately star wars doesnt really give months for most dates but years is still a starting place. these dates are all pulled from wookieepedia, legends page when applicable/different

also we're using geonosis as our date reference point since the timeline is honestly so hard to work with

order 66 happens 19 bby

1st battle of geonosis, 22 bby, the clone wars are 3 years long

boba fett's birth date is listed as 32 bby, meaning he was 10 at geonosis. cody, rex, ordo, fi, spar, and sull are all also listed with a birth date of 32 bby, so we're down to a difference of months here. essentially they're all the same age though- boba himself, troopers, nulls, commandos, and alphas

I REPEAT. ALPHA IS NOT SIGNIFICANTLY OLDER THAN THE CORE OF THE GAR. PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD. HE ISNT THE ONLY ALPHA EITHER.

but who's actually oldest? and is wookieepedia entirely correct? this is the part where i open repcomm and ignore everything else. i don't even know if anything else contradicts because i'm not checking

chapter 1 of triple zero, kal has just arrived on kamino. it's eight years before geonosis, and 2 years into the cloning program

(ALSO ITS SO FUCKING GREAT THAT THIS IS KAL'S INTRODUCTORY LINE LMAOOO <3)

he does see a lot of clone babies in gestation vats, just like we see in attack of the clones as well as cadets of varying ages- the kaminoans continue producing troopers through the entire ten years of the cloning program, so yes, the 'first generation' (clones deployed at geonosis) ARE older than a lot of later clones. but we dont really have a lot of those later clones as named characters as far as i know

anyways

the nulls appear to kal to be 4 or 5 (also peep jango apparently being legitimately shocked by them)

chronologically the nulls are NEARLY two, which probably means like 1 year and 11 months or something

(pause for me to cry about this entire scene, 'kal was instantly proud of all of them,' 'how would you like to be called ordo, he was a mandalorian warrior,' kal teaching them to embrace their fear as a mechanism their body uses to help protect them, but this is gonna be long enough as it is)

and then we have jango showing up with boba. no real indication of if boba or the nulls are actually older, but it's implied that they're very very close in actual age, if not the same age. we also get mention of the commandos and the alphas.

now, this is now just down to what i think and what makes sense to me. the whole point of the nulls is that they were experimental units- the kaminoans wanted to see if tinkering with the genome would be worth it, and ultimately decided it wasn't. it would actually make sense to me if the nulls were at least a year or two older than the rest of the clones- the kaminoans need time to see if their experiment panned out, don't they? but the nulls are also 10 at geonosis

while the nulls have been flash-trained and put through some trial runs at this point, it's indicated that the alphas and commandos aren't quite ready for training yet. this could be because the alphas and commandos are just a bit too young yet, it could be that the kaminoans put the nulls through training at a younger age than they're doing for non-experimental units. not totally clear

this is another point that is important to me: multiple times the nulls pass for clone troopers. i keep seeing headcanons of them being noticeably taller/bigger than other clones and while it is true that they're canonically slightly heavier, i think the difference is probably like 10-20 pounds, most people cannot easily tell the difference. ordo puts on corr's armor and just notes that it's slightly tighter than he's used to. mereel infiltrated kamino in trooper armor unnoticed, even while directly speaking to a kaminoan

here is my opinion on it: -the nulls and boba are basically the same age -the alphas were created next, but a few months after. by this point the kaminoans had decided (possibly because of the nulls' high mortality rate in gestation) that the alphas would be fully unaltered aside from the accelerated aging. the nulls' behavior 'issues' proved to the kaminoans that this was the right call -the commandos were created at the same time or shortly after the alphas. we're talking within weeks if not days. they have minor genetic changes to work better as a team but that's about it. -the troopers then begin production, now that the kaminoans have lots of practice altering jango's genome. heavy alteration for better social cooperation and obedience. -we're talking a span on like 4 months for all of this

you could say that ordo's gray hairs support the nulls being maybe 4-6 months older than everybody else, but i really think he is just that stressy, and there's also book evidence for clones actually aging at variable rates depending on how much stress they're under

quick note for omega: i think her existence is just insane and she's only here because disney was making a children's show and needed a child character (and girl so they can get inclusivity points), but i could see her being made anywhere from at the same time as boba to up to 3 years later. her wookieepedia page doesn't say, because the bad batch never bothered to give us any concrete information on... anything.

WE ARENT EVEN TOUCHING ON EMERIE. WHAT THE FUCK

[tonyskittymug]

Despite how much I enjoyed the finale, I still think the show did Tech dirty. He deserved better.

[cryiling]

sorry but i really hated these last few episodes of the acolyte. tbh i stopped being super invested in the show once jecki died, but i swear i tried to give it a chance after that. i'm just so so angry that they killed jecki and yord AND SOL. and it literally made no sense why osha would kill him. like i knew it was gonna happen bc the show made it sooo obvious, but i cannot understand how her character would have actually done that. i'm so glad the acolyte probably won't get a s2 because there's no way i'd be able to root for osha and mei. i thought their characters were pretty cool but this last episode lowk made me hate both of them 😭

aside from that, i'm honestly rlly uncomfortable by the way qimir and osha's relationship has been playing out. physically they're at least 10 years apart, but qimir had phrased his backstory as if he's SIGNIFICANTLY older than osha, which is....... i mean ship what y'all want but don't go around saying that this is the better version of reylo 💀

the only positive thing i have to say abt the show is that the fight choreography has been consistently top tier, easily the best of all the live action shows. the outfits were pretty cool too honestly. and ofc i lovedd the lesbian witches 😝 and jecki and that awkward guy that kept following vernestra. i did not care for the rest of the show tho