#the ''obvious'' thing to do; right?
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actually y'know what i guess i'll talk about it while i'm here
i think about this scene a lot regarding him and (obviously) this episode in general, but especially when slinkman is like... actually a character that gets development and changes over the course of the show, it really does say a lot to me
and with the placement of scenes here, it's right in between lazlo, raj and clam getting slinkman to muster up the courage to show off his past aspirations, to give it another go, only to be reminded of how all that turned out, panic, and flee back to what's comfortable... aaand in between him finding out everything is actually lumpus' fault, and very purposefully sabotaging a budding dream, at that
and i think he's sort of gone through life in this way for a long time, this humble and passive acceptance of the roles and duty he's been placed in, of the world around him deciding who he's supposed to be. especially to lumpus. a best friend, sure, but nowadays an assistant, an emotional support crux to keep him (and the camp) from falling apart. i've always ran along with the idea that running camp together was lumpus' idea from the start, and look how it's turned out
i love how he says "pull yourself together", too, the tone he has as if he's scolding himself for daring to think or try to be anything like that again, that he should know better by now, when the moment's far passed
although, i don't think fame and danger/excitement are what he really wants out of life, even deep down — not anymore, at least. in the end, it's a lot more about healthy self development and sort of taking back "control" of his own path in life, right? and at the same time, a little of all that now and then wouldn't hurt...
see i've been typing this out for an hour but forget everything i just said and let's get slinkman a motorcycle
#camp lazlo#talk#slinkman#analysis#and okay maybe i am little obsessed with him tying the neckerchief here but#it's just such a good way to... show this little moment i guess#looking right in the mirror#i'm a bit specific about slinkman too so keeping this in mind while figuring out post-story stuff is interesting actually#because the ''what do you really want to do now?'' question does have to come again...!#and it'd be pretty easy to have him chase this sort of thing again; to even take over as scoutmaster; and that is sort of#the ''obvious'' thing to do; right?#but maybe i just have other thoughts about how he's changed#(...and i just am not really convinced that slinkman as scoutmaster would be very entertaining without lumpus to bounce off of LOL)#cus another thing that i think sort of dominates his life is like... monotony#working is like breathing to this fucking guy#and i feel like he could really use some summer vacation himself#let's get him a motorcycle. okay. i need to think about this#another great thing about this episode is that i love pretty much any and all instances of slinkman sticking it to lumpus in some way#(talking about two fictional characters fighting with each other) it's fun; it's healthy; it's free!#and the background music here before it's crashed by lumpus... LOL
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All this aroace character shipcourse has proven to me that a majority of people that interact in fandom cannot actually interact with characters and media outside of shipping and genuinely I believe you need to learn how to interact with media outside of shipping.
#text#fandom#aro#ace#aroace#aromantic#asexual#this became extremely obvious with Encanto - where the main message of the movie was ignored#and people were so desperate for shipping they started shipping background characters or even the family members....eugh#like at some point you must understand your inability to interact with media outside of a narrow romantic scope is an actual problem#at some point you need to accept you don't ACTUALLY like the media you're interacting with#like genuinely can you say anything else that you like about a piece of media besides the fact you want two characters to kiss?#genuinely i do believe the way some of you interact with things needs to change because it's made fandom spaces literally unbearable#also it has severely limited some of your guy's critical thinking skills#if you want content based around shipping then look at the romance genre it's literally right there for this very reason#shipping just needs to stop dominating fandom discussions and interactions. shipping should not be the main focus of every genre ever ffs#that or y'all need to literally start tagging your shit so that people can actually block it out and find the posts that they want to see
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When I tell you I have been thinking about this for three days straight...
#there's almost no hesitation there in dao#he says it like it's the most obvious thing in the world#he wholeheartedly believes it would be The Right Thing#but in dai even after everything...#no matter what stage the relationship is at#GAH#I know this is like the bare minimum but FUCK#it gives me feels okay#I believe he wouldn't be able to do it#I mean I say that as someone with an abomination inquisitor but like#if you eavesdrop on courier convos you can experience him befriending Cole in real time so#I feel like he's at that stage where he's slowly understanding that everything he's been fed was a lie#and he has trouble re-contextualising his worldview to fit that new reality#especially with all the shit he's been involved in#dragon age#cullen rutherford
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if i had more time/energy/motivation i would write a fic that's UT Sans/Reader and seemingly very normal and slice of life
but you notice tiny little quirks and oddities around Sans and it's slowly revealed that it's actually Dust and he's taken this Sans' place to get close to you
#like it's played so straight that the readers of the fic don't even realise it's Dust either#like as you're reading it you can pick up on the lil foreshadowing bits with the reader character and put the pieces together but it-#wouldn't be SO obvious that you could figure it out immediately you know#reader character wouldn't know anything about the multiverse though so they'd just be noticing that his stories/alibis etc don't add up#and maybe he acts a lil weird sometimes around certain people#maybe he knows things he shouldn't#perhaps you get a visit from a 'coworker' of his that looks like his weird twin but /off/.....................#perhaps he lets slip some stuff that he shouldn't and now you're wondering if your Sans is actually Sans or an imposter............#but he /is/ Sans of course. just not the right one#maybe you start questioning when the switch happened. did you ever know Sans or was it always Dust? you start overanalysing all your dates#the months you've spent together#this idea is free btw if someone wants to yoink it please go ahead i do NOT have the time to dedicate to this except by maybe doodling
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“jaime did it mostly for self preservation” “he did it bc he was ordered to kill his father” are not only blatantly incorrect and borderline illiterate reads of what is in the text but idk why people find it unfathomable that someone like jaime would want to prevent thousands of people from violently burning alive. like it is not actually a difficult moral equation which is why it is at the center of jaime’s arc and his relationship to his society because he realizes that the ethical constructs of westeros seem to be in opposition to this very obvious moral choice as seen by how the situation could even escalate to the point that it does through the enablement of the tyrant by the respected institution of the kingsguard and the uncritical upholding of the honor system over an actual coherent moral code. same with the scorn he receives for killing what everybody acknowledges as an objectively horrid tyrant who harmed innocents and violated law that knights are also sworn to protect and uphold and actually contradict by not acting against.
#like u guys r so blinded by agenda posting that it gets mind numbing#seeing ppl that otherwise r not illiterate repeat these points actually kills me#i should be studying but here i am pissing and crying again#and the whole ‘oh he only did it when it was convenient’ that is not the point the point is that he kept upholding what the kg represented#until he was pushed far enough to break and throw it all away#we see that he keeps challenging it and keeps being shut down until it reaches a breaking point#it isnt framed as ‘oh jaime now knows that he can do this bc tywins here haha’#its just he finally reaches the obvious breaking point#bc someone out there has to stop a nuke#and it all becomes clear#jaime doesnt have to be the paragon of virtue to do this but yes he has the awareness and the moral code to do the right thing
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I know it's well-understood at this point that Kirk/Spock is much more of a nerd4nerd ship than a nerd/jock thing, but it's just been kind of percolating around my mind that both of them aren't just space nerds but space nerds who were personally bullied.
Like, 18-year-old Kirk was targeted by an older bully who combines "total asshole" with "the most grating man in existence":
MCCOY: Well, yeah, I'm beginning to feel a little bit picked-on, if that's what you mean. KIRK: I know the feeling very well. I had it at the Academy. An upperclassman there. One practical joke after another, and always on me. My own personal devil. A guy by the name of Finnegan. MCCOY: And you being the very serious young— KIRK: Serious? I'll make a confession, Bones. I was absolutely grim, which delighted Finnegan no end.
This was five years after Kirk survived a genocide, btw, and likely well before his stint as an Academy instructor known to be strict and demanding (which is the period the "stack of books with legs" description of him comes from). By the time he's 33, fifteen years after all this, it turns out one of his deepest fantasies is just beating the shit out of his bully, but only if he can do it According To The Rules (the replica of Finnegan sneers, "Always fight fair, don't you? True officer and gentleman, you").
Spock, meanwhile, is viciously targeted by his Vulcan peers for being biracial from at least age 5; he's described as being tormented by other boys by that age, and "at home nowhere except Starfleet." I think he'd have been 18 or 19 when he left for Starfleet and it's... the least bad of his options, but he seems to have spent his entire career among humans and being persistently subjected to raw racism and profound disrespect for his culture at every turn.
Like, their histories of being metaphorically shoved into lockers are not identical or anything, but I think it's interesting that they both have them.
#i feel like kirk and mccoy are generally seen as more temperamentally aligned despite kirk being emotionally closer to spock#spock representing cold logic and kirk and mccoy as the passionate emotional ones#but i feel like a) spock is wildly emotional just repressed. and coolly utilitarian in philosophy. and usually undemonstrative.#b) mccoy is highly intelligent and sometimes VERY much the voice of reason#(not typically cool rationality but certainly reason - he puts together clues that the others don't see on multiple occasions#he's not as easily derailed by obscuring details or over-cerebral analysis paralysis as the other two imo)#c) but mccoy sometimes struggles with the really big emotional shit and spock is more on kirk's emotional wavelength there#(this is especially obvious in conscience of the king and turnabout intruder but not only there - in both mccoy resists seeing#the full horror of the violations of the most basic rights that kirk has endured while spock is much more sensitive to those things)#and d) kirk is emotionally expressive but typically more cautious and measured in judgment than either of the others#more likely to formulate positions in terms of philosophical principles than mccoy's kneejerk sense of decency#(which sometimes is exactly what's needed and sometimes disastrously lacking in rigor and reflection)#or spock's often brutally utilitarian focus on outcomes that runs roughshod over... like. everyone.#that's why kirk is the mediator; he's not at the exact midpoint in every dispute#but broadly his personality and strengths/weaknesses fall pretty evenly between spock and mccoy#(interestingly i think this is especially noticeable with kirk's infamous seductions - which are rarely motivated by simple desire#they combine the focused perception and expressiveness of mccoy and the brutally self-denying calculations of spock#when sylvia exclaims that he seems warm and passionate but his mind is cold it's like... yeah. softly lit femme fatale james t kirk#it's like the unholy side of kirk's overall approach borrowing pretty equally from both mccoy and spock)#ANYWAY the point is that i don't think kirk is actually more similar to mccoy than he is to spock#and in particular his tendency to repress the horrors and focus on useful concrete action are very akin to spock#long post#anghraine babbles#star peace#otp: the premise#c: who do i need to be#c: i object to intellect without discipline#star trek: the original series#anghraine's meta
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so i have this au called "the mage's heir" where davy never gives simon up after lucy's death and, instead, makes the decision to raise him alone. and kinda does okay! davy is still all *snazzy piano riff* and shit, but in this verse, taking care of simon when he's small forces him to step away from his work and chill the fuck out a bit. at least for a little while. (simon winds up growing up into a signficiantly more arrogant and morally grey version of himself tho.)
#carry on#co/ws/awtwb#snowbaz#simon snow#davy cadwallader#a.k.a. my boyfriend#sketchbook apocalypse#au: the mage's heir#in my head simon is talking about warrior cats in this picture lmao#n e way here are a few things:#-> simon is 8 years old the first time he goes off (davy takes him to see lucy's grave)#-> simon and penny meet when they're 4/5 bc davy wanted to get his vamp attack on watford going but what was he gonna do? bring simon? no#so he showed up at mitali's door and she was gonna slam that shit right in his face but davy opened with: ''lucy needs a favour''#(cue simon poking his little head out from behind davy's legs)#-> simon still goes to agatha's place for winter break + he goes to penny's place for the autumn and spring half-term breaks too#-> simon realises he's into baz at the end of fifth year and freaks out about it all summer for all the obvious reasons#but then he gets over it and sixth year becomes a montage of simon trying (and failing) to ask him out in increasingly convoluted ways
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I wonder how the Primes feel about the fact that Megatron was the one who avenged them and Optimus was the one sacrificed his life to protect the guy who betrayed and murdered them.
uh. that is certainly a way to interpret what happened! incheresting.
from a personal perspective i guess i could see some of them getting a grim satisfaction from the fact sentinel died at the hands of one of the many people he hurt right after all his crimes were broadcasted for everyone to see. i don't think any of them would hold any love for him after he murdered them plus fifty cycles of betraying the world they died trying to protect and i do believe more than one grew bitter enough to enjoy the fact the bastard died like the coward he was.
on the other hand i also think they'd be mature and wise enough to understand their personal satisfaction cannot come before the good of cybertron. revenge, theirs or anyone else's, was not more important than the bigger picture, which in this case was the fact that cybertronian society was already about to go through an incredibly tumultuous time with lots of changes and like it or not, publicly executing someone without any sort of trial or accountability is Not A Good Idea when you're trying to begin a reform for an entire society.
i cannot stress this enough, as good as it may sound, murdering someone because you think they deserve it is not a good way to start a new government. i know it sucks, i know it's frustrating, i know we all cheer when a politician/ceo/guy-who-sucks gets murked, but it's still not a good basis for a society to (re)start with!
and from yet another more personal perspective, megatron's revenge, in their behalf or otherwise, was already tainted for them the moment it happened by orion's death. the fact an innocent, who only wanted to do the right thing (naively or self-righteously as it may look to some), died in the process automatically made it not worth it in their eyes.
they dearly wish orion hadn't died. much less for someone like sentinel. but they understand perfectly why he protested against megatron killing him like that. and him risking his life for what he thought was right for cybertron, even though it meant keeping the person who'd oppressed him his entire life alive, only makes him more worthy of the matrix and the responsibilities it carries as far as they're concerned.
they're... content knowing that the well-being of their people is in the hands of someone who can, has and will put the greater good above his own feelings of anger or desire of revenge.
tldr: megatron's revenge had too high a price to pay for it to be worth it in their eyes, no matter what personal satisfaction they could've gotten from it. and they understand that orion wasn't trying to protect sentinel because he cared for him, but because he was seeing the bigger picture and trying to do what was right for everyone and not just himself and d-16.
haunted au
#hey i got an ask#rumble1319#transformers one#tfone#haunted au#optimus prime#megatron#tf primes#i liked this ask. it made me think.#i am very team!Optimus in case it wasn't obvious enough#i think he was doing the right thing not letting dee kill sentinel#did he choose the worst words possible. maybe. did he make a mistake exiling megatron with the high guard afterwards. definitely.#but he still didn't deserve to get his chest blown off for that and he'd literally just died and came back to life. he gets a freebie.#also he's my little guy and can do wrong in my eyes <33333
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every time i read a fic where lily evans is upheld as a paragon of justice and the underdogs and the vulnerable, i die a little inside
bc,,,,are we talking ab the same gal who kept defending snape for atleast five years of hogwarts and however many before that? who overlooked his bigoted actions, even when others called it/her out on it?
ugh
(now james, on the other hand? we have such clear evidence that he fits this archetype but ofc that’s overlooked isn’t it. gonna shut up here but will take the rant into the tags)
#james potter#reading another fic#where it goes#‘ur sense of justice is all lily harry she cared so much’#uhhhhh no?#she only cared about snape?#her entire problem w the marauders was that they picked on *snape*#one throwaway comment sn j hexing people does not a champion make#in fact my reading of lily actually puts her as extremely not empathetic actually#the way she behaved towards young petunia was also. hm.#she always seemed stuck up and righteous#idk where we got this impression of her from#but!!!!!! u know what we do have!!!!!#JAMES as the paragon of VIRTUE and JUSTICE#it is so obvious it’s almost too much#this dude was friends w a werewolf and a disgraced pureblood scion and a loser#he was so against blood purity politics he couldn’t even repeat the word mudblood#he joined a war bc it was the right thing to do n not bc he’s personally affected#his spirit animal is a STAG#a noble honourable protector like cmon how much more obvious can it get???#but ofc we have to Gender our headcanons in all instances w/o even realising it#so we end up w this clusterfuck of a characterisation#ugh#can u tell it annoys me a lot lmaoo#pen’s yapping#oh also i found my previous tag lol#pen’s whining#what do i do now
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He was about to kill you, Lex. Or divulge something you didn't want me to know.
— SMALLVILLE, "Forever" (4.21)
+ bonus from "Arctic" (7.20):
#smallville#smallvilleedit#svedit#lex luthor#jason teague#lionel luthor#clark isn't in these scenes but they're still very much#clex#sv 4x21#sv 7x20#dcmultiverse#my gifs#'why can't you see what's right in front of your face lex?' god. god. godddd.#I think there's a really interesting discussion to be had (with many potential viewpoints)#re: to what extent lex actually knew the truth either consciously or subconsciously at any particular time#and how much he was just in denial about it (and why)#I'm not really prepared to have that discussion in these tags but like#let's face it - lex figured out that clark had powers all the way back in 1x12#just because clark convinced him he was wrong at the time doesn't mean he just forgot that whole thing#and yet it seemed like the more seasons went on and the more obvious the truth became#especially the fact that clark was so heavily tied to all the alien weirdness of smallville#the more lex seemed to (subconsciously?) push back against accepting or recognizing that truth#I mean that's literally what he's doing in the 4x21 scene with jason#so it's like he both desperately wanted to know clark's secret but also didn't want to know at all#and that's just SO interesting#I mean jesus the 7x20 scene is supposed to be peak evil lex and yet he STILL has to be pushed into accepting the truth#and he does so with his eyes glistening because yeah he wanted to know clark's secret once upon a time but he never wanted THIS#(remember when lex told jonathan in s1 that he just wanted clark to have a happy normal life bc clark was such a good person?#and then he's told in 7x20 that to save the world he has to KILL clark and take that life away from him hahaha [crying] it's fine I'm FINE)#wow I really said 'I'm not prepared to have this discussion' and then just. proceeded to have it anyway huh. lmao oops
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#sobble#now THIS was the starter that i chose in my actual playthrough of swsh. this little fucker was Basically my reintroduction to pokémon#bc as i've talked abt many times i had a long reprieve from pokémon during my teenage years and only got back into it#with the release of swsh. and this thing was the starter i chose at that time#subconsciously i think the reason i chose them is because i wanted to be subversive. right#i do this sometimes. for some reason. where i know there's an obvious option i wanna pick but i don't do it because i don't wanna be#“obvious” and choose the “obvious” choice that everyone knows i would pick so i pick a different‚ more obscure option for some reason#i did this with sobble over scorbunny. more recently i did it in every playthrough of bg3 i've ever done#where i've never played a dragonborn despite OBVIOUSLY KNOWING i would choose a dragonborn#because i don't wanna be too “obvious”. i dunno i should just play a dragonborn already. and i should just admit to liking cinderace
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Danny is part Fae
Danny Fenton has changling blood. It goes back generations to when the Nightengale witch/ghost hunting family crossed with the 'Faetons' (fae lands) eventually becoming the Fentons.
It's why he can change his apearance between 'human' and 'ghost'. It's why he didn't die all the way and why he's so powerful. It's part of why he was so hard to clone. It explains why he's so good at making deals/getting people to keep promises and finding loopholes to bad situations.
It explains why Jack is considered strange and doesn't play by typical human social rules and invulnrability. (Plus breaking through walls and an obesion with claiming things by using his name)
Also, you can't tell me that young Dan with blue skin, pointy elf ears and red eyes doesn't look like a fairy.
#danny fenton#danny phantom#fae#it makes so much sense#if ghosts exist than why can't other things?#vlad is a vampire#i think that's obvious#I hc tuck has some werewolf in him#and sam is a witch#spooky atracts spooky#strange atracts strange#there's a reason they're friends#maddie probably has something in her veins too#that woman is unaturally strong with infinity pockets and purple eyes like come on#the whole town is a little spooky one way or the other#headcanon#has this been done before?#i'm new to this#am i doing this right?
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CHARLIE MAGNE from HAZBIN HOTEL (2019): Pilot - "That's Entertainment" ↳ "So, I've been thinking: Isn't there a more humane way to hinder overpopulation here in Hell? Perhaps we can create an alternative way to change souls through... redemption?"
#hazbin hotel#hazbin hotel edit#hazbin charlie#charlie magne#hazbin edit#requested#hazbin hotel pilot#that's entertainment#charlie#my gifs#god ain't she the cutest little thing!#not gonna lie i get a bit emotional seeing her do The Pose during ''wonderful fantastic new hotel''#it's the same pose she does in the S1 poster :')#okay actually im back here to say some things in the tags:#holy almighty LORD these gave me so much grief to color in a way i thought looked nice#specifically the one of her in the news chair. sorry i was NOT gonna let that hideous highlighter green color assault all your eyeballs.#did i lose nearly two hours of sleep getting it right because i still have no idea what i'm doing? yes. worth it? YES. ohh yes.#i liked the seafoam look so i made the cloud sequence match :] or at least tried to#there WAS supposed to be another one of her in the news room but i just hated how it kept turning out so i scrapped it.#coloring the main series was one thing to learn but the PILOT? never has it been so obvious to me just how much more bright and vibrant#the colors got during the progression of the world design. also. if by any chance one of those cool and experienced#gif makers happens to see these tags and wants a good laugh: i've been doing this for how many months now? and just last NIGHT figured out#how to use the fucking eraser in photoshop....... thing is... i also draw. i KNOW what program tools look like. i KNOW ppl draw in PS.#i'm just a really silly fuckin goose!! TEEHEE FUCKING HEE I GUESS!#so for months i've been like ''god i wish i could just erase this part from the layer'' and looking at the eraser tool and just being like#''nah it's probably different and weird i'll just stick to what i know'' -> said boo boo the FOOL#see i could be in the club but i'd rather be aggressively neurodivergent about the silly queer demon cartoon that altered my brain chemical
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Yeah I think I'll just make a separate blog for this stuff now... but in the meantime!
Look! It's a kid! They're having fun! They have their tongue out! They're winking! They're being silly!
Surely nothing bad would happen to them, right?
...
You wouldn't hurt them, would you?
...
Would you?
Would you hurt them?
Are you sure you wouldn't?
W O U L D Y O U ?
W H Y ' D . . . Y O U . . . D O . . . I T . . . ?
Anyways! Credit to @howlonomy once again! I hope you enjoyed... whatever the fuck this is!
#undertale yellow#uty#undertale yellow clover#uty clover#pixel art#ok look. this was the only way i could justify (heh) showing these at the same time#i think i pulled it off well with the unsettling feeling#oh right. design elements for the clovers#fun fact. they take from their moms from the original au in both versions of their pose#the ceroba stuff is incredibly obvious#yes they have their arm in front of them like their genocide variant#but its more of like a chest bump meaning/vibe here#instead of the 'i want to [freak]ing kill you' vibe of the other#because this is just a friendly spar! theyre not here to kill you!#and martlets is really only the right arm#specifically HER right arm in her snowdin fights#i plan on having their geno right arm move just like hers :]#the is a subconscious thing from them btw. having three people contribute to your new body/dna does that to ya#the only thing from star in battle animations is when they take out their gun#they do a little gun spin before pointing it at you#that or just take it out when they... well saying that would be a bit of a spoiler#i have so many plans for animations#and as for corrupted clover...#if you look closely. they have an evil grin!#because you know how flowey is with his psychological torture#the random lines are vines because flowey tries/tried to control them#and the droopy stuff is... well...#lets just say... these siblings are alike in more ways than either of them know =)#we love giving kids deep and long lasting trauma that even therapy cant help <3#oh. and the eye being stationary and the soul are just cuz i thought itd be cool :]
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Hot take of today
This goes out to both sides, but considering a certain side has more of a problem with this *antis*
Invalidating others for their trauma, shared views or not is never fucking ok
It’s especially not fucking ok under ANY circumstances to tell someone that they should
KYS or much less don’t fucking say someone deserves or deserved to be SA’d , it’s not fucking cool it ain’t fucking cute and it’s especially not “morally correct” you don’t get a pass just cause you believe to be of higher standing than them
It goes without saying that internet drama should never be reason enough to tell a survivor that their trauma was deserved proship or not
#looking at y’all antis especially#also at pro shippers who thing it’s ok to do this out of spite#but obviously mostly antis as this is a more common issue on their side#I think this should be obvious#especially since this whole debate is about *moral standing*#like uphold your own fucking morals if you’re gonna be policing others about what’s right or not#this also goes out to doxxing#or harassing in general#you would think it be a duh moment#but I guess not#fuck antis#proship v anti discourse#anti v proship discourse#proship please interact#proship#proship safe#proship positivity#proship pls interact#god I have a few spelling mistakes that I’m lowkey to lazy to correct
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just rewatched the first venom.
loved the part where venom made out with eddie sloppy style
#idk how but i have a more trained eye for sfx now?#because this time around while watching this movie i noticed in certain moments how live action was blended into like a cgi camera shot#i mean i didn't have to look all that hard#but it was more obvious to me this time#also with the cgi'd corpses and such#love the movie. best marvel movie ever#idc about any other marvel stuff venom trilogy is all i care about and need in my life#venom the monsterfucker#eddie the loser normal man with enough rizz to charm and keep a symbiote#love those guys. i hope V3TLD is three hours long and they have copious symbrock love making scenes#symbrock#venom#venom the last dance#id love to watch venom2 right after this one but It Is almost 1 am and i have morning things to do. the worst kind#so this will have to wait
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