#that’s exactly what polyphemus wants to do

[inkbirdie]

Odysseus: What good would killing do when mercy is a skill more of this world could learn to use?

Athena: Remember when you dropped that baby off a wall last saga?

Odysseus: this ain’t about him

[mythology-void]

okay so I was doing a Research™️ about ancient Greek etymology as one does and I found some Things that made me want to Violently Claw My Arms Off please allow me to force feed you my discoveries

So there are 2 words for "not" in ancient Greek, depending on the context: ou and mē. Having introduced himself in the Cyclops episode as " ou tis", or No-man, he then stabs Polyphemus in the eye. When Polyphemus' brothers come to check on him, they say this:

"... surely no man [mē tis] is carrying off your sheep? Surely no man [mē tis] is trying to kill you either by fraud or by force?"

Right after this, after the other cyclopes ditch Polyphemus, Odysseus's inner monologue goes something like this:

"Then they went away, and I laughed inwardly at the success of my clever strategem [metis]." (pronounced mEH-Tis)

Now, there's a difference between mē tis and metis. [mē tis] (pronounced mEH-Tis with a space between the syllables) is the literal translation for "no man". Metis is a word for extreme intelligence/cunning, which is something Odysseus is famous for.

Now, there are several examples of abuse of metis/intelligence in the Odyssey, but I think the juxtaposition between [mē tis], or the concept of anonymity, and metis, or extreme intelligence, is REALLY interesting. Odysseus's adoption of the title "No-man" was characteristic of metis--it was a really smart move that simultaneously hid him from the cyclops and avoided any future consequences. It was a highly effective strategy all wrapped up in a nest little package with a bow on it.

But when he revealed himself as Odysseus of Ithaca, effectively throwing off No-man (anonymity and [mē tis]), that was characterized as idiocy--he's essentially doxxed himself, and now he's doing to (spoiler alert) get tossed around the Mediterranean by Poseidon for the next 10 years.

This is really interesting because it lets you see the parallels/codependency between metis(intelligence) and humility. When Odysseus refused to allow himself to go unnoticed (hubris) he suffered for it. BUT when he declined instant glory/satisfaction (kleos) in order to achieve the long term goal of survival, he was rewarded with Athena's favor (pay attention. This part is important).

And this situation repeats itself MULTIPLE TIMES in the Odyssey--the EXACT SAME THING happens near the end of the book, with the suitors. When. Odysseus is dressed as a beggar and the suitors/Antinious are abusing him, he ACTIVELY CHOOSES not to react--he doesn't stand up and rip off his disguise and start hollering "TIS I, ODYSSEUS OF ITHACA! FEAR MY WRATH"

No. He sits there patiently and waits. He plans and schemes and quietly orchestrates their downfall without alerting them of it. Why? Because he learned his lesson the first time this happened. He buried his rage and adopted what was, according to Grace LA Franz, a more feminine form of metis, weaving a web of destruction for his enemies that ultimately resulted in their total annihilation (see Weaving a Way to Nostos: Odysseus and Feminine Metis in the Odyssey by Grace LaFranz). His patience allowed him to win the whole prize--no questions asked, no 10-year-long-business-trip strings attached--just the sweetness of a full victory. And he is, once again, rewarded with Athena's favor--both in the battle with the suitors and in the aftermath (cleanup/reuniting with Penelope).

This really reinforces the idea in the Odyssey that Odysseus's defining characteristic is not just his intelligence--it's his ability to learn from his mistakes. He used what he learned at the Lotus Eaters Island against Polyphemus--the Lotus Eaters drugged his men, so he drugged Polyphemus. He used what he learned from Circe and Polyphemus against the suitors--Circe used false sweetness and honeyed words to lure his men into a trap, so that's exactly what he did to the suitors. His hubris on Polyphemus' island cost his whole crew their lives, so he intentionally left well enough alone until the right time. He didn't just learn from his failures--he turned them into BATTLE STRATEGY.

i don't care what anyone says that is completely totally and objectively awesome

[oddyseye]

Odysseus is a very feminine character, now that I think about it...

Alright, let’s get something straight before anyone comes at me with a “bUt tHiS iS gEnDeR eSsEnTiAlIsM” take. I’m not saying Odysseus is literally a woman or that masculinity and femininity are these rigid, unchanging constructs. I’m talking about how the ancient Greeks perceived these traits. This is about Homeric gender coding, not modern gender politics.

Ancient Greek society had clear ideas about what was “masculine” and “feminine.” Men fought, conquered, and sought kleos (glory). Women used cunning, patience, and endurance to survive. Odysseus? He embodies the latter far more than the former. That’s the point. That’s what makes him interesting. I’m not slapping modern labels on him; I’m analyzing how he would’ve been understood in his own time.

Got it? Got it. Then let me explain.

Greek heroism is all about kleos (glory), right? You charge into battle, fight, die gloriously, and get immortalized in song. Odysseus? Not his style. His whole thing is survival. Achilles, the epitome of warrior masculinity, chooses an early death in exchange for undying fame. Odysseus chooses life, no matter what it takes. He hides, deceives, and grovels when necessary...all acts that a traditionally “heroic” warrior wouldn’t be caught dead doing.

Take the Cyclops episode: a classic strongman hero would just fight Polyphemus. Odysseus? He outsmarts him with wordplay, drugs his enemy (like a sneaky witch would), and escapes by disguising himself under sheep. You’re telling me this is masculine? If anything, it aligns him with figures like Circe and Penelope. Women who survive through wit and deception rather than brute strength.

This man’s mouth is his deadliest weapon. He doesn’t win with a spear; he wins with stories, persuasion, and trickery. The word polytropos (πολύτροπος), used to describe him in the very first line of The Odyssey, literally means “many-turned” or “twisting,” evoking the way a woman might spin or weave. The metaphor of weaving is all over his character, and weaving is, of course, the domain of women in Greek thought.

Even his lies are textile-like. He spins tales, unravels them, and reweaves them as necessary. And let’s not ignore that his narrative mirrors Penelope’s: she weaves and unweaves her shroud, delaying the suitors; he spins and unspins his identity to survive. He and Penelope are two sides of the same coin, both manipulating reality to stay in control.

If we take ancient Greek gender norms seriously, dominance in sex = masculinity, and submission = femininity. And Odysseus? The man spends years being kept by women. Calypso and Circe both hold him as a sex slave, reducing him to an object of desire rather than an active agent. That’s not exactly Achilles ravaging Briseïs, is it? He’s literally lying in bed (λέχος) while these women rule over him.

Even in Ithaca, his return isn’t some macho takeover. He sneaks in, disguises himself, and watches before making his move. Unlike Agamemnon, who storms into Mycenae post-Troy and gets murked by his wife, Odysseus waits, gathering intel like a patient, calculating woman.

He also cries...like...a lot.

Masculine heroes go out into the world to conquer (Iliadic energy). Feminine figures are more often concerned with the home. Odysseus’s entire goal? To get back to Ithaca, to his oikos, to his wife. He’s not seeking new conquests or greater glory. He wants stability, family, domesticity. He longs for the space traditionally occupied by women.

Odysseus is basically the Greek epic’s answer to the trickster woman trope. He’s wily, verbal, emotionally expressive, and constantly using the strategies of metis, not brute strength, to survive. While Homeric masculinity typically means fighting, dying, and achieving kleos, Odysseus thrives through deception, patience, and endurance. Traits that the ancient Greeks more often ascribed to women.

[dangergays]

as per my last post. the thing i really love about epic the musical and a lot of tragic stories in general is that almost all of the problems are reactionary, but in a way that makes sense for the human characters.

of course odysseus doesn't want to kill polyphemus. he just killed a baby that he didn't want to because zeus forced him to. obviously after that he isn't going to want any more unnecessary bloodshed. and of course he's gonna shout out his name and address, his best friend and multiple other men were just brutally murdered in front of him, he's not thinking straight and there's no way he could've known it was poseidon's son.

of course eurylochus opens the wind bag. iirc, odysseus in the music doesn't actually explicitly tell anyone what the bag is except for perimedes and elpenor (edit: after further inspection he does tell people other than those two, but it's not clear who exactly he tells). his captain is being weird and shady about this bag and not letting anyone else touch it, to the point where he stays awake for nine days straight to keep everyone else away from it. that's shady as fuck and after odysseus did nothing to quell his doubt, of course he's opening the bag.

of course odysseus sacrifices his men to scylla. it's been years now and he's so desperate to see his wife and son, especially since they could see the coast of ithaca when the wind bag was opened. this is the only true concrete way to get almost all of his men home that he can think of, of course he's going to start to grasp at any opportunity he can see to get home. and, he's just had his whole revelation about how he would do whatever it takes to get as many of his men home as he can.

of course eurylochus would stage a mutiny. his captain just sacrificed six men to a horrific sea monster.

of course eurylochus would kill the sacred cow. the men are starving, and they're not going to take odysseus at his word anymore because he just sacrificed six men.

of course odysseus chooses himself over his crew. they all just betrayed him and literally stabbed him in the back, and didn't listen to his warnings about killing the cow. everything he is doing has been to get back home, and eurylochus no longer believes they'll be able to make it home. he has to keep trying. he has to meet his son.

[katerinaaqu]

Do you know any good-ish/ok adaptations of the myths ?

Absolutely! I would say the TOP adaptation is mentioned to my post about Iphigenia (1977)

This is simply PERFECTION! The only thing missing is the clothing of the mycenaean kings and even that arguably could be said it was partially achieved given the feeling of tough situation they were in. The cast was exclusively greek so you can see what Greeks actually look like in various shapes or forms so to speak, the scenario was perfectly reflecting the ancient play, the modernizing was also done perfectly;

Basically you have the insertion of common modern Greek phrases, expressions and even the fact that the soldiers chanted in the same rhythm you would hear Greeks chant in election periods or in a football match shows exactly how AMAZING that adaptation was! It was simply GREEK you know what I mean? And it shows how modernizing is not jeopardizing with the plot! And also it was shot ON LOCATION! Sure one doesn't have modern day effects to recreate the past but allow the viewer to see how the locations look if one wants to visit for example the Lion Gate in Mycenae

Likewise the rest of the movies such as "Trojan Women" were amazingly shot.

Next is RAI mini series L'Odyssea (1968)

It is the ONLY ONE that did Homer some justice! Not only did it follow the book almost with religious precision in many parts (minus some liberties here and there and even then the liberties were taken either because of budget (for example placing the Laestrygonians before Polyphemus because they couldn't make 12 ships and find so many people for one scene on Polyphemus Island or that they avoided Skylla and Charybdis unfortunately but probably for the same reason) or for storytelling. For example instead or having a discus match at Scheria they had a sword fight which basically NAILED Odysseus's character and how war affected him

The casting was amazingly respectful to the area as well given that they hired mostly Balkan or Italian actors to play the characters so they would be as ethnically respectful as possible (and the Lotus Eaters were actually PROPERLY REPRESENTED given that Lotus Eaters land is supposed to be at north Africa) and come on the amazing IRENE PAPAS is simply PERFECT as Penelope in every way and down to the tee on how Homer describes Penelope in the Odyssey and Bekim Fehmiou was the best Odysseus we could have. Also undoubtedly the best Polyphemus scene ever!

The 1997 version is also extremely good visually with also casting that respects the myth and the area. It is not accurate to the plot entirely but many of the changes are not at least hurting the plot and the way they actually shot the film with bright colors to their clothing and all and even the long hair was amazing

Another movie that is worth watching is The Clash of Titans (1980s) which from what I remember was an amazing attempt to recreate a myth in a different context.

Now if you want something different there is also a series of 1970s from a Russian animation studio that transfered the myths in short stories with great respect to the original material. They do take liberties of course but still very faithful and aesthetically pleasing. See for example the myth of Theseus and Minotaur:

So these are some that I have on top of my head. Right now

[el-jarado]

"Everything's Changed Since Polites"

In light of the extensive re-litigation of the events of Storm Saga after the Thunder Saga, I find myself thinking about "Keep Your Friends Close" a lot recently, and how I think Odysseus was set up for failure from the get-go, and not because of his crew being bad.

Polites's absence is felt like a knife in Storm Saga but the whole gang is feeling it. When "Luck Runs Out" comes up, this is the first time Eurylochus has seriously questioned Odysseus's plan in the musical; probably the first time he's seriously questioned him in over a decade. And what passes between them is pretty telling to me.

Where is this coming from, my friend? I just don't wanna see another life end You're like the brother I could never do without And suddenly, you doubt that I could figure this out?

From what I've seen, Epic takes the approach that Odysseus, Polites, and Eurylochus have been together since they were children. Polites is Odysseus's best friend, but he was Eurylochus's friend too, and he's the first of all of them to die in battle since Odysseus started leading them. They're both reeling from that loss, but how it comes out is bad for both of them. Eurylochus, as we see, is someone who locks down when he's shaken; focus on immediate safety for his shipmates even if it prevents a better course of action (run when the other cyclopses show up, the food is not worth having to take on another dozen Polyphemus; get the crew the fuck away from the sexy witch before she turns the rest of them into pigs; avert starvation NOW deal with (more) angry gods LATER). He does not want Odysseus to get hurt dealing with something as dangerous as a god, and tries to express that. Odysseus withdraws into himself and lashes out at anything that tries to reach him when he's shaken; he's already lashed out at Athena when she takes him to task while he's still grief-striken over Polites, and here he doesn't hear his brother saying "please don't be reckless, I can't lose you too", he hears "you weren't good enough to bring everyone home, and we don't believe in you anymore." He's cold and dismissive to Eurylochus's doubts to cover for his own hurt, and that just makes those doubts worse.

It's exactly the wrong mindset to approach Aeolus in, and this is the part I've really been turning over in my head. Aeolus's game does sound too easy; all he's gotta do is not open the bag, while sailing on a ship staffed by 43 men he's been leading for ten years, many of whom he's probably known his entire life. The winions add the obvious catch in that they spread a rumor among the crew that the bag is a treasure Odysseus is keeping to himself before Odysseus can explain himself, but I think in many ways Aeolus's whole song is putting a finger on the scales. Aeolus, in presenting it to Odysseus, implies that some of his brothers are enemies and should be treated as such, and the winions, spreaders of mischievous whispers, keep telling him "never really know who you can trust." (And imply he should kill and sacrifice when it's convenient, the act that ultimately destroys all trust in the crew down the road.) And I think that's a malicious twist in the game just as much as "It's treasure~! Buh-bye!" :D

Odysseus went up to the island feeling sore and defensive after his last talk with Eurylochus, and when he's told to keep his friends close and his enemies closer, it's interesting to me that he doesn't think "I don't have any enemies on that ship, those men are my brothers" or even "who can I trust to help me with this?"

He thinks "I need to do this entire thing myself." It could be hubris, a quality Odysseus certainly doesn't lack for, but I think this is the shadow of Polites not being there again. Odysseus had to leave some of his men behind for the first time in ten years, and he thinks he's lost their faith because of it. He's guided to expect a betrayal and feels like he needs to do something amazing all on his own to show Eurylochus and the others he's still got it, Polyphemus was a fluke.

Part of my understanding of human nature has been that people respond to our expectations and treatment of them. I sincerely believe if Odysseus had taken Eurylochus and/or a few of his most trusted men into his confidence for managing the bag, the temptation to open it would have been greatly diminished or negated. Odysseus doesn't treat any of his friends as if they're worthy of his trust, because Aeolus got in his head and he's trying to prove something to himself and to them by doing this singlehandedly. However, people respond to how you treat them, and Odysseus not realizing the crew are just as shaken by Polites's loss as he is and treating them with suspicion makes worry fester into doubt.

Polites's loss is felt keenly again; he's not there to tell Odysseus he can relax, that kindness is brave and he should trust in his friends to support him instead of treating them like potential enemies (Ody remarks on being unopposed as if he was expecting otherwise, which is not the relationship he's had with the crew up to now), and he's not there to reassure Eurylochus and the crew Odysseus must have a good reason for his cagey, secretive behavior and they shouldn't listen to the winions continuing to suggest a little peek to make sure of things wouldn't hurt. (I take the continued presence of the winions in the song to imply they're harassing the crew with rumor the entire time Odysseus is keeping to himself and trying not to sleep.) I don't think Eurylochus would have wanted to look in the bag if he was brought in on protecting it, that's not his relationship with Odysseus, but when they're nearly to Ithaca, Odysseus hasn't said a word to anyone in days, nobody really knows what's going on but there's all these rumors flying and the Captain's acting strange...

It would not surprise me if Epic's interpretation is similar to the Odyssey where they're almost back when the bag opens, in which case it might be even more tragic as an Orpheus & Eurydice twist; I don't think it was a case where the bag would've been opened the moment Ody turned his back, I think he stayed awake for nine days out of wholly unjustified paranoia/trying to make a point he's still got it by doing everything himself, and Eurylochus and the crew celebrated too early when their destination was in sight. They thought they were home, there's no harm in having a look now, right? Wrong; Aeolus (probably deliberately) didn't specify when it would be safe to open the bag, and certainly didn't feel the need to warn Odysseus the magic winds inside would blow them miles away from where they opened it. Like Orpheus makes it out of the underworld and then ruins his hard work because he looks back just before Eurydice has, I suspect the crew was not trying to open the bag during the days Odysseus was depriving himself of sleep to watch it; it's at the seeming end of the journey that "they wanna get the bag open so they can have closure." Like most bad ideas, it is likely Eurylochus did what he did when it didn't seem like there was any obvious harm in it; Odysseus said don't open the bag until we're home, but Ithaca's in sight, what could it hurt to celebrate a little early?

To make a long story short, I think Ody and the boys were hosed with the wind bag trial from the start without Polites around, and it's not just because the crew fell for a rumor introduced to make the game harder and Eurylochus eventually acted on it; it's also because a god Ody just met told him not to trust his friends, and he believed the god he just met instead of them because he's still mourning his best friend and misread his other best friend's concern for his safety as a sign his leadership was faltering. God games are rarely if ever fair; the house always wins, and it's a lesson Ody learns slowly and painfully.

I'm also not gonna do another long post about my point that people, Odysseus included, keep forgetting making it back to Ithaca with Poseidon still royally pissed at them would've been very very bad, but making it back to Ithaca with Poseidon still royally pissed at them would've been very very bad!

[mothofstars]

Epic: The Musical - Tier list to appease my autism

Epic is quite possibly my favourite musical of all time, and after the release of the Wisdom Saga, I really wanted to rank the songs and put my thoughts about them somewhere.

And I'm not about to spend 5 hours on this and not post it anywhere, so please enjoy my ramblings! From least favourite to most favourite, here is my Epic tier list!

30. Full Speed Ahead - Troy Saga

It's worth pointing out, I don't dislike any of these songs. I like all of the songs, and think they are all important and serve the overall musical. But this, for me, is a bit more of an 'establishing' song. It serves as exposition to get us from one place to another, both literally for the crew, and musically as we move from the emotional song of Just a Man to the more fun Open Arms.

29. Storm - Ocean Saga

This is also a little bit more of an exposition song, but for me I think this mix is stronger, I love the call and response, and for some reason still giggle when they all point towards the island in the sky!

28. Luck Runs Out - Ocean Saga

I like the way this shows the starts of the cracks forming between Ody and Eurylochus. Eurylochus, quite rightly, gets a little weirded out by the idea of climbing up to a floating island that has a potential god resting upon it. Ody on the other hand hasn't had the crap beaten out of him enough times yet, and still has the optimism that means he will do just that. You can hear a twinge of pain in Ody's voice as he realises that his second in command is starting to doubt his actions, all the while he is just doing his best to keep his crew together and alive.

27. Open Arms - Troy Saga

This song is great - What is there to say about this sweet boy that hasn't already been said? We all know and love him, and this song shows off that sweetness and love for life so well. However, this song is so much better when used in other songs to absolutely shatter your heart into a million tiny pieces as we all grieve our happy friend. This song is still strong, but I think its overall impact comes more from its use in other songs, rather than the original!

26. Polyphemus - Cyclops Saga

The brutality of this introduction to this saga is terrifying. I still get chills during the cyclops saga, and the turn at the end of the song is so well done. Each verse seems to add another layer of tension, and we feel like we are sneaking closer and closer to a conclusion that favours the crew, and then, we get stomped.

25. The Horse and the Infant - Troy Saga

This is one of the best openings to a musical - we know the main characters, we know what they want, and we know exactly where they all stand. This is achieved without too much wordy-ness and exposition, and just serves as a great and powerful introduction. Also, love how Ody is immediately humbled by being presented with a challenge he already struggles with, bringing him closer to the listener. I've been told by a few that if you have the prior context of the books that came before the Odyssy that the names being read out at the start is like a nice little round of references to previous stories - it's a shame this doesn't hit for me yet, as I am still learning quite a bit of the context surrounding this musical. For me, as well, there is just so much going on in this song, that my head spins a little lol.

24. Survive - Cyclops Saga

Very similarly to the Troy saga, the second song of the cyclops saga once again seems to have the aim of humbling Ody and making him closer to us, your average mortal, than a god. You can feel the genuine pain and fear in his voice as his friends fall, and the splashes and smashes of blood and club are poignant and painful to listen to. We get to see the tactician brain of his working to full speed, with a steady ticking in the background making it feel like Athena is right there with him, which is a lovely touch.

23. Remember Them - Cyclops Saga

Wow, this song is so strong and painful at the same time. The fade into the song, hearing Ody's mind snap straight into action and then him calling out to his friends with directions demonstrates his tactician brain and his ability to lead them really well, but also feels like he is also trying to guide the crew through the first big loss they will experience together. He steps right up, refocuses them, and gets shit done. Shame he didn't kill him, but this would be a very short story if he did!

22. Keep Your Friends Close - Ocean Saga

I am but a small, simple lesbian. The way Kira sings here just feels so nice and floaty, while also showing her more mischievous nature. The longing in Ody's voice as he sings for his family is so painful, and makes the next song hit so much harder. The promise of him being the same, knowing that not to be the case it heart-breaking. Also, give me more Winions. I need them as plushies please. Thank you.

21. Mutiny - Thunder Saga

The absolute gall of Eurylochus to be a massive fucking hypocrite and then pull out the line of "I'm starving my friend" with that much pain in his voice is breath-taking and incredible. He doesn't even feel like he really wants to betray Ody, but is just doing exactly what he thinks he needs to do to see another day. Little does he know. This song also suffers a little from the same problem I have with The Horse and The Infant - a lil too much going on

20. Ruthlessness - Ocean Saga

HELLO SIR! My goodness this mans vocals are so smooth but rough at the same time. The growl that he gives to his voice whilst still flowing the lyrics together so musically is just so impressive. And the background instrumentation imitating the crashing of waves against the ship is *chefs kiss*. And then..... ALL I GOTTA DO IS OPEN THIS BAG!!!!!! I think this song might rate higher for me if I didn't end it with the most tonal whiplash ever. It's hilarious, don't get me wrong. But my gods, does it pull me out of the song a little bit lol.

19. Different Beast - Thunder Saga

The way I jumped out of my seat when I first listened to this saga, admittedly at 6am, I think I could have punched a hole in the roof were I less vertically challenged. He means business, this song shows that, and gods is it good. The small plea for mercy from the sirens who feel like they already know the answer, and the ruthlessness of his response. Hey look, he is learning!...

18. Puppeteer - Circe Saga

A woman. What? She had me in just one song. I would thank her if she turned me into a pig. Her vocals are perfection, the chanting of her power, the way she can hypnotise a whole crew. I find it interesting too, how just the promise of a warm meal and a safe place, even if it might be a trick, is enough to pull the crew into her arms. They may be under her spell, but part of me thinks so may have chosen this if given the option.

17. Wouldn't You Like - Circe Saga

Look, all I'm saying is that it was very telling that the day after the Circe sage came out that my Spotify started filling up with TROY's music. He is amazing, plays the character in the best way I have seen bar none so far. And that fur coat and sunglasses?! What a look. Also its funny hearing a British phrase as a plant name.

16. The Underworld - Underworld Saga

Jorge please, my face is stained from tears shed in this song. Every single time I listen to this I shed at least 3 tears. It's like a subscription cost of pain in return for a song that is as moving as it is powerful and reflective. The call backs to the previous sings are haunting, no pun intended, and the choice to have his own mother play Ody's mother is genius, and I hate and love it. As someone who has lost a connection to their own mother, it always makes me tear up as he yearns to be with her again, and shows the regret in his voice that he never got to say goodbye.

15 and 14. Done For *and* There Are Other Ways - Circe Saga

I cannot separate these two songs in my mind. Not only do they flow from one to the other perfectly, but they just do such a good job of leading us from a battle of power to a battle of the mind, with the flowing, seductive vocals from Talya and the trance of the music behind it. Again, I would have absolutely stayed with her, I am weak. I like to think my wife would forgive me!

13. Little Wolf - Wisdom Saga

Little wolf is such a good song because, even without Athena, the vocals are just so damn crisp and punchy. When I saw that the animatic in the livestream showcase was a streetfighter style animation, it made perfect sense - the punch of the beat and the chanting of the team behind the enemy works so well. And then, my goddess arrives to swoop in and steal my heart. She has clearly grown in the last few sagas and years that have passed, and I think this introduction of her back into the musical does a great job doing that. She comes in, bestows wisdom, helps a kid kick some ass, and with it once again confirms my status as a lesbian.

12. Just a Man - Troy Saga

This. Is. Heart-breaking. I'm sure that many people have the same reaction to this, but as the beginning of Ody's journey, it just hits so hard. Him recalling his own young son, and then knowing how long they will be apart makes it even more impactful. The change of pacing from the lullaby of the first part, to the painful growl in his voice as his questions his actions and realises that he has done is just pain.

11. Monster - Underworld Saga

This was so hard to pick apart from I'm Just a Man. I love them both. The only reason this stands a little higher is the overall arc from the song that precedes this one into it is a little stronger, and I love the complete rage in his voice. He did all this, tried to do right by his crew and his wife, and is told by the man who he thinks will help him get home that "yeaaah nah you are absolutely fucked, have you seen yourself recently?!". Yeah, I would sing like this too. He can see where he went wrong, and this acts as a really nice turning point for him going forward. If he is going to be seen as a changed man, who's ruthless actions will hurt those him around him, he might as well go all in. he is the monster ra ra ra

10. Suffering - Thunder Saga

Jorge tucking his hair behind his ear. End of review. No but really, this is great. I know he did a TikTok on this, but the way the lyrics flow into each other to create this hypnotising melody is just breath-taking, and I will never forget the moment of 'wait hold up what is happening' the first time I listened to this song. First I thought that this was dream Penelope, back from her saga with the windy bag, and then was genuinely taken back by references to a daughter. oh no

9. Thunder Bringer - Thunder Saga

I get a bit annoyed, very stupidly, when I cannot sing along to a song I really like. It's one thing I love about listening to musicals, is learning the songs and then performing them to mu plushies in a vague attempt to satisfy the very anxious performer that lives inside me. Which means that a lot of my favourite songs are ones that fit within my vocal range, that i can sing along to. This one is so far outside of my vocal range, it might as well be on a whole other plane of existence. But my gods do I absolutely adore this song none the less. How can the asshole that is Zeus sound so fucking cool while being this much of a dick towards women while flipping off Ody in the background. This song is just an ego flex. Good job Luke Holt. Fuck Zeus.

8. My Goodbye - Cyclops Saga

I really like the way this song shows the 'youth', for want of a better word, of Athena and the impact on Ody's actions on her and its just so good. The vocals show so much of their pain and anger, and the mix is just perfect. The contrast is Ody screaming at her and then the genuine pain in her voice, the impact of her responsibility as a god is so good. No words can properly do this song justice. The best part is, neither of them are correct here. If they had just sat down and had a chat like grown ups they might have stayed alongside each other, but both think that their actions are the correct one, and i cannot entirely disagree with either response.

7. We'll Be Fine - Wisdom Saga

Kinda loving that most of the Athena songs are all sat together. It makes me so happy. The absolute sobbing that erupted from my eyes, nose and mouth during this song would have probably classed as a downpour. I love both of these characters so much, and Athena's vocals at the start are so heart-breaking and bittersweet, followed by the most heart-warming duet that has ever graced my ears. Also, the childlike joy and wonder behind the vocals from Telemachus are so beautiful and cute, and I would fight for him!!

6. Warrior of the Mind - Troy Saga

Ah, Athena, my beloved. I would perish for you in a heartbeat. I just love the heart that Teagan gives her through her performance - its so warm and playful in the introduction part, and they both almost feel like each others hype, its fantastic! It's also a great way to show off the influence that she has over Ody - she puts herself right in the centre, reminding him exactly why she respects him so much, while affirming her stance on his training.

5. Legendary - Wisdom Saga

Miguel's casting was one of the most perfect ones in this history of this musical. Not only because of his incredible vocals, but because they fit so perfectly with Jorge's. I can fully picture this kid and his dad together, their voices sound so much like each others, just like a younger version. This song is the perfect match of catchy and smooth, and it just soothes my brain perfectly. Special credit to the retort to Antinous about his mother. This is the perfect opening to one of the best sagas we have been gifted yet. Side note - I cannot wait to see Antinous get absolutely stomped into the ground (please gods tell me he does or I will never sleep at night) because my goodness, what a line delivery. I will throw this man. Protect Telemachus, throw Antinous off a roof like the baby, and someone get Argos a new toy.

4. God Games - Wisdom Saga

I'm not someone who listens to the demo's much (bar listening to Hermes laugh on repeat, and occasionally looking up lyrics). I like that they are out there, and my wife absolutely adores them, but I prefer to wait till the full release so I can listen to everything with a full cast and mix. Did that stop me from having over 20 videos of different people lip-syncing to the bits of Hera for this song, making me look like the thirstiest person in my area. No. I don't think that this song could be anywhere other than my top three. All the singers are incredible, all of the animatics are incredible (special shout out to Athena disco dancing into madness) and I wept like a baby when it was over.

3. No Longer You - Underworld Saga

This song is perfect. I have no notes. This is where my true top songs really begins. This song is so passionate while not straying into anger (outside of Jorge's owl impression that is), while at the same making the prophet sound entirely distant, almost uncaring. It's an added bonus that this song sits right near the bottom of my vocal range and so serves for great belting material when I need to let out feelings.

2. Scylla - Thunder Saga

This saga did an amazing job of making me absolutely loose my mind with every single one of its songs. Not all of them are what I would regard as my favourites, nor would I even say that this is necessarily my favourite saga (I think we can all guess which one is), but my gods can Scylla absolutely take my life. This song is perfect - The slow introduction into the absolutely mind bending vocals from KJ, with the growl of a monster and the voice of a monarch. Its incredible, and I will forever be trying to sing this just as half as well as they do.

1 . Love in Paradise - Wisdom Saga

I wish I could write all of the words that this song deserves, but I'm sobbing too much to focus, so you will have to deal with whatever I have that i can see behind this waterfall of tears. Athena travelling through the previous sagas and reliving all the pain that Ody went through sent me into a state to begin with. And then, Calypso arrives and reminds me how gay I am. I want to go to her island and give her hug. If it weren't for the animatic, and the little face that she makes when she finds out Ody is married, I wouldn't have stopped crying for a single second. Her intension aren't pure. She is desperate, she is alone, she is sad. She is very morally grey. All she wants is someone to soothe her, and in turn she tries to relieve his pain. It's important to note here that, outside of looking up her future songs, I have very little knowledge about Calypso. For me, based on the lyrics we have from "Not Sorry For Loving You", she seems to have been forced to remain on this island for hundreds of years with no contact. Is what she does to Ody horrible - yes. Do I think she wants to hurt him -no. And I also don't believe that she is trying to manipulate him to get off the ledge just so she can have her lover back - I read this as someone who is in love and trying their best to make them happy and keep them safe. Ody couldn't leave the island, and she couldn't let him be free, they have to ask Zeus for that. Not to get too deep, but her crying out to Ody makes me melt every time. The gut retching pain from Ody drying out for all those he has lost and who he thinks he will never see again is haunting. Give me a year and the ability to remove my fear of thousands of needle pokes, I will probably get the line "Life would be so much worse if you had died" nicely printed onto my body. This is the perfect song to top off all the other perfect songs here. I cannot express how much this song means to me.

Thank you, Jorge.

To give a summery, here are the Saga's ranked!

1 . Wisdom 2 . Underworld 3 . Thunder 4 . Circe 5 . Cyclops 6 . Troy 7 . Ocean

[incurable-cough-of-death]

I'm not defending Calypso. I don't agree with her actions either.

I'm just side-eyeing the way the fandom is hating on her and not all the other gods that have caused Odysseus pain and torment on his journey home. Why does she get the worst of the hate?

Yeah, trapped him on her island for 7 years. But this is also the musical that has:

God of Wisdom raising him to be a soldier since childhood (something tumblr is very wishy-washy about if it's good or bad in media)

Demigod Cyclops who kills his men after receiving an apology and a gift of wine

God of the Sea who creates a storm to keep him from going home, killed most of his men, tried to drown him multiple times, threatens to flood his homeland, stalking him for over 10 years to try and kill him for pride at this point

Daughter of a Titan/Witch who turned his men into pigs, tried to kill him with a chimera, tried to "seduce" him and then stab him

Thunder King of the Gods who put him on that island in the first place after killing the remainder of his crew and destroying his boat (there's no way Poseidon wouldn't have gotten to him otherwise), refused to let him go until God of Wisdom is near death

Most of those gods/demigods are either beloved by the fandom or the fandom at least finds fun to make fun of. All I've seen from people who don't like Calypso is downright loathing. And arguably, what the other gods did was far worse than what Calypso did. Why are they all getting so much love while Calypso is treated like a monster? Seriously, I've seen people thirsting after Poseidon more and more every time he appears, and he's actively trying to kill Odysseus! People thirst after Circe but she did just as bad, if not worse, than Calypso. So where's their hatedom?

What's the one thing that those gods don't have in common with Calypso? (Spoilers; Calypso is a dark skinned black woman).

Y'all don't have to like her. I certainly don't. But the level of hate for Epic's Calypso is seriously giving off "I hate black people" vibes more than "I dislike this character and character's actions" vibes.

this is a lot of lmao for me.

First off, it's not that serious, it's literally a fictional piece of media and people are allowed to like who they like and dislike who they dislike and there does not have to be some deep ideological reason for it. Second, as an actual Greek Mythology buff who read the Odyssey for school and drinks problematic fave juice in general not just for Greek Mythology, I have always hated Calypso and always will so that dark-skinned hater bullshit does not apply to me at least.

Big point here: all the characters in Epic are nuanced and have different motivations for their actions and they can all be understandable however it is up to the discretion of the audience to decide who they like or do not like based on their actions. PERSONALLY I do not like Calypso because homegirl heard the man say he was married TWICE and was just like "well that do not matter I want to keep you as my sex toy/'lover' forever" with no regard for his wishes OUT OF THE DESIRE to not be lonely. And that actually makes it worse for me than Polyphemus, Circe, Zeus, or Poseidon because they at least are acting out of defense of their name, dependents, etc. Calypso is just wantonly keeping Odysseus against his will because she can and wants to and believes she knows what's best for him.

(Also for the record, I hate Zeus and am not exactly fond of Poseidon although I enjoy the songs he sings and understand his motivation even if I don't agree with it. I do also enjoy Calypso's songs even though their content makes my skin crawl as a SA survivor.)

I UNDERSTAND Calypso's motivation but I do not sympathize with it, it is selfish and ignorant and entitled and i do not feel sorry for her at all for getting left alone again, she made her bed. She thinks that because Odysseus washed up on her island, that means he's destined to be hers regardless of what he's saying his wishes are.

I think the big thing you're missing here is that Calypso is a thief of autonomy; a BIG THIEF of autonomy. The shit that goes down with Polyphemus, Circe, Poseidon, and Zeus only takes up three years. Then Calypso takes SEVEN YEARS AWAY from Odysseus. She is the lion's portion of why it takes him so long to get back to Ithaca. She keeps him from even leaving the island. At least with the others, he had the ability to move around but Calypso makes even that impossible. Kind of make sense to hate her now?

Also, she is keeping him hostage with the intention of using him for sex out of a twisted notion of love and whether or not she actually does so is up to interpretation. But as one friend from the fandom put it, if the genders were reversed, the fandom would be in agreement that the captor is a terrible person and there'd be few to no fans. And it makes a lot of sense for the haters to just HATE her if she's at the very least a sexual harasser if not a sexual assaulter. End of the day, she's a sexual predator no matter how far she got.

Anyways this is fandom so I'm not genuinely upset if people misinterpret my reasons for hating a character but long essays of BS deserve long replies herego~ Also another fandom friend likes Calypso BECAUSE she's problematic so sit with that for a minute.

[nandysparadox]

SO TRUE CHESS!!! aaaugh the progression of his character is so so good. From the beginning he was always the "strike first , think later" kind of guy which contrasts Polites' try to be as peaceful as possible and Odysseus "plan at least 500 contingencies and lie your way out of everything " approach. Eurylochus has always been a man of the ppl first and foremost, he's a warrior, it makes sense. He's not afraid to contradict Odysseus as his second in command. But deep down he's also a very ... anxious? person. and after Polites and a couple of their men died to Polyphemus he became more careful, more withdrawn, more terrified of the consequences. He started to "run away" more, he doesn't want to see Odysseus hurt, he trusts him but in Luck Rus Out its not that he lacks trust in him but hes filled with worry, what if something bad happens, what can he do if he loses him? He doesn't know what to do with himself if he loses his Captain, his Ody, "the brother I can never do without"

and Odysseus who became restless doesn't know how to respond to it. He wants to convince Eurylochus and the crew that his plans should always be followed and are free of flaws, he can keep them safe. Eurylochus whos being both pessimistic and realistic after their huge loss from the cyclops doesn't believe this entirely but at the end he also realizes the position he put Ody in so he shuts up and doesn't bring up his concerns again...

Until Circe!! start of the circe saga, Eury immediately goes to Odysseus *privately* to confess abt the wind bag but Odysseus was like nah Eury later. and thenn like the whole men into pigs happen and this is probably like one of the most stand out parts of Eurys character to me, again it emphasizes his "cowardice". He was too suspicious to go inside of Circe's palace, he stayed behind. He went back to Odysseus when things went south and suggest they leave the crew. Odysseus tells him that he wouldn't have left Eury, which fills Eury with both guilt and conflicting emotions.

He wanted to "cut their losses and run", so afraid of losing more against an unknown threat, that he fails to realize that Odysseus is a man of pride. Yeah, he probably would have went back for Eury. Eury would *definitely* have gone back for Odysseus, he just didnt think that a small amount of the crew was worth it especially after losing so many ships to Poseidon , literally more than half of their men gone.

AND THIS ASK IS GETTING RLLY LONG ALREADY but this is definitely whyy like hes so complex!!! he went to confess in Scylla that he opened the wind bag because he started to believe in Odysseus that he had it under control and that he wouldn't fault Eurylochus in the end, he started to worry less about the crew because he thought Odysseus would save each and every one of them, that none of them is expendable in his eyes. But then Odysseus betrayed that trust, didnt tell anyone abt Scylla, and even almost killed Eurylochus too by telling him to light up a torch. LIKE THATS CRAZY!!!

YES YOU UNDERSTAND. fundamentally eurylochus is a very anxious person, and what is interesting is that his misgivings about odysseus' commands come not from a place of defiance but genuine concern. that underlines most of his actions. from the beginning he's worried about the men, he's worried about odysseus. and that makes their relationship very compelling to me because it's clear there's as much care as there is distance between them. i think eurylochus trusted odysseus, but after the cyclops saga he began to doubt his captain's judgement.

in the circe saga, once again he's cautious, he doesn't go in the palace (which was for the best, in the end. if he was turned into a pig there'd be no one to tell odysseus about the situation) - and his argument with odysseus is very interesting as well. he's being very pragmatic by wanting to leave the scouts, though it's not exactly honourable, but you can tell a lot of it comes from worry again. he doesn't want to lose odysseus. he saw what circe can do. but i think a part of him internalized what odysseus said to him - because after the underworld saga there's a shift to his perspective

i think it marked the point where he began to trust odysseus' judgement again, that he began to believe odysseus did have their best interests in mind. and that's an interesting point you bring up, that it might something that motivates him to try to confess about the windbag again. all this just makes scylla way more tragic in my opinion. THAT IS CRAZY! the lead in from scylla to mutiny is incredibly heartbreaking to me. because at least in my view, eurylochus never wanted to be in that position. he didn't want to have to seize power. but for the sake of the crew he feels like it's his responsibility. and it leads them to their doom.

[thefandomtraveler]

Correct me, if i'm wrong because i haven't read the odysee, so i'm just referring to the musical, but i feel kinda alone with this perspective on the thunder saga and everything that happened with eurylochus, so I thought I would share it.

I have seen so many posts and comments of how eurylochus (and the rest of the crew) should have known what happens and blame them for acting the way they did.

But I feel like people very much forget that odysseus is not the only one, who is affected by everything that happened. There is so much pain and suffering and it's all connected and i feel like especially with odysseus and eurylochus, you can see that so well (and it's breaking my heart).

Eurylochus and Odysseus are paralleling each other so much. We see odysseus in a moment of ignorance when he tells the cyclops who he is and it has consequences he didn't know (getting poseidon after him). We see eurylochus doubting odysseus because of what happend with polyphemus and in a moment of ignorance, he opens the bag without knowing it would kill most of his comrades. On circe's island eurylochus wants to confess, feeling so guilty, very much like odysseus after the fight with the cyclops. He loses hope in saving the crew that turned into pigs, because the last times they couldn't save them either. Odysseus manages though and then the underworld happens. That's the turning point for odysseus, he becomes the monster and we see the consequences of that in the thunder saga. First with the sirens but then also when he doesn't hesitate to sacrifice six of his own men to scylla. And that's the final turning point for eurylochus, isn't it? He gets mad at odysseus because he knowingly sacrifised their own (odysseus knows scylla would get them all if he doesn't but none of the crew knows that). I have seen people say eurylochus does the same by opening the bag but he didn't know what would happen, much like odysseus didn't know the cyclops was poseidon's son. Only at the end of Mutiny we see eurylochus knowingly do something, even though he is aware what consequences it would have. He and the rest of the crew knew exactly what would happen, if they killed the cows (odysseus told them). But very much like odysseus, eurylochus seems done with all that, he doesn't see a reason to listen anymore, he thinks there is no way of getting home so at least he can eat something before he dies.

I have seen people say that the crew was begging for odysseus to spare their lives in Thunder Bringer but they aren't really, are they? There is only the chorus from Just a Man (since it's the same situation: Zeus wants odysseus to choose) and then eurylochus' last words, but to me he doesn't sound like he is begging him to spare him, it sounds like he knows very much what odysseus' answer will be and takes it, feeling sad and defenseless (his action his punishment, like he told odysseus himself in Mutiny)...

I don't know if i'm reading this completely wrong because everyone seems to think otherwise but at the end of Thunder Bringer i just felt so sad, not only of odysseus but for the other's as well, because they lost all hope and were starving and at the end they betrayed their captain because they felt betrayed by him.

I'm not saying, that it was right what they did, but i don't like that view of blaming them without keeping in mind that they are broken, much like odysseus...

[xinnamonbun]

EPIC: The Musical x Inanimate Insanity

----------------------------------------------------------

Except there's one problem- I can't figure out who Odysseus is- So how this will work is that I'm putting what the role would be for Mephone4, Test Tube, and Nickel in that order. (Below it I will also explain why)

Odysseus: MePhone4/Test Tube/Nickel

IS the main character of Inanimate Insanity so makes sense to be the main one in this. Also a very morally complicated character, similar to Odysseus. Has many relations that make casting easier and is also intelligent like Odysseus. Tbh...I kinda want excuse to make a Nickel focused AU- ok but actually casting for him is decent and he's also morally...hmmmm. different-y.

Penelope: MePad/Fan/Baseball

MePad is like the only one that makes sense for Mephone4 (unless there's someone better y'all can think of, I'm happy to hear it!) Ship.

Telemachus: Bot (?)/Bot/???

I don't know what would make sense here??? But he has a close-ish relationship with Bot so eh- It's her and Fan's child. LITERALLY w h o?

Eurylochus: Toilet/Paintbrush/Balloon

It fits with the whole betraying thing and Toilet being the right hand man makes sense in this case. Main thing off is personality. Fits personality pretty well and makes sense for Test Tube. It's like how Balloon and Nickel becomes friends but backwards. (also just imagining in Puppeteer Balloon saying "those dumbasses got in there just because there was a woman-" as a demi flag just appears.)

Polites: ???/Lightbulb/Suitcase

Tbh, I don't know who this would be for Mephone4. She LITERALLY gets Test Tube to see things from a different perspective JUST like Polites. She just IS Polites (early season 2 at LEAST)

The Infant: Bow/Bow/???

Parallels Bow's death in season 1. The song mentions "you low-key remind me of my son" which makes a lot of sense for Bow and Bot. Slight problem with Nickel, he's less of a "how could I hurt you" and more of a "give me that baby and I'd yeet it off a tower" so idk

Athena: Cabby/Cabby/Tea Kettle

This is mainly for God Games honestly, as in defending MePhone4 against the unvitationals. Feels like Test Tube would just yell "YOU'RE ALONE" to her ass. Okay but actually their dynamic works pretty well here. Tea Kettle's got the sass for this role as well as well as the badassery for it.

Polyphemus: MePhoneX/MePhoneX/MePhoneX

He's just a good symbol of death. Plus I think the X makes sense to be one eye.

Aeolus: Clover/Clover/Clover

The goofiness just straight up works for her in this, I would also like to mention it works extra well for nickel but it definitely fits the other two.

Poseidon: Silver Spoon/Silver Spoon/Silver Spoon

This is mainly just because of who I'm planning to be Circe... Yeah maybe not the best but I don't have much else.

Circe: Candle/Candle/Candle

She is Circe.

Hermes: Springy/Springy or Goo/Springy or Goo

Springy is PERFECT for this being weirdly friendly because he wants something out of it but never clear exactly what it is, that laugh, just being goofy, trying to make some kind of weird deal with MePhone4, it WORKS. For the other two main reasons for pretty much the same the only reason who is a possibility is because of the GOOfiness and honestly I just want him to be in this-

Mom: ???/???/Tea Kettle (?)

I just don't for these two. For Nickel Tea Kettle is kinda motherly towards him, the only thing is I wouldn't know who to do for Athena-

Prophet: Blueberry/Blueberry/Blueberry

Depressing little bitch. (He right tho)

Sirens: BFDI contestants

EXTREMELY random but I would honestly just love to have this as a dumb reference and I'd love to just kill a bunch of your favs just because.

Scylla: Four/Four/Four

To keep this being the dumb little BFDI section and also because I just want some horrifying Four.

Zeus: Steve Cobs/Steve Cobs/Steve Cobs

Powerful evil yellow man.

Suitors: MePhone4 Haters/Test Tube Haters/Nickel Haters

The greatest evil.

Calypto: Simp

Just a simp.

Gods in God Games: Unvitationals

More specifically: Dr. Fizz as Apollo, Ballpoint Pen as Hephaestus, Walkie Talkie as Aphrodite, Springy as Ares (IF he is not Hermes; if he is it's swapped with Walkie Talkie and the Cameras are Aphrodite), Groscar as Hera, and as said before Steve Cobs as Zeus.

----------------------------------------------------------

originally I was going to draw designs for this and THEN post this, but when the wisdom saga came out I started rethinking who would be who, even rethinking what kind of style the designs would be clothing wise and if I would limit myself to things that would actually be worn in ancient times

This post probably isn't going to get much traction, but I NEEDED to rant about this it's been stuck in my head for months.

[maximus-gluteus]

Can we all collectively say thank you for all the Grover development we're getting in the show? Especially in episode 5, where he just tells Ares exactly what he wants to hear so he can finesse that information out of him? I feel like that new scene perfectly sets up his arc in Sea of Monsters, where he has to keep Polyphemus content and distracted, long enough for his friends to rescue him. When I first read the books, I had to reaaaally suspend my disbelief to accept that Grover was charismatic enough to bargain, by himself, with a cyclops. Show Grover though? Yeah if anyone can do it, HE can.

[joutsummer]

doing what heroes do

@wtfanworkclassification stage 7: challenge -> write exactly 100 words (100 words)

also on ao3.

“are you sure about this?”

jonas has, possibly, never been less sure of anything in his entire life. wout is hauling jasper into the boat, and in the distance, polyphemus is still roaring.

“no,” jonas says, because honesty is important even when facing imminent doom. tadej just grins - that wide, earnest grin that makes people do stupid things like open a thermos and release the four winds to escape a murderous cyclops.

jonas wants to kiss that smile off his face, but now is not the time.

“come on, jonas! what could go wrong?”

famous last words, and all that.

[oddyseye]

The gods in The Odyssey rlly seem to favor Odysseus more than others. Is this because he’s truly special, or is it something else? I never really got that...

Oh, do the gods really favor Odysseus? That’s the million-dollar question, isn’t it? And I get it, it seems like they do. I mean, Athena is practically his personal cheerleader. But let’s not get too carried away thinking that divine favor is the same thing as unconditional love. If you think the gods are just handing him a free pass because he’s special, then you’ve missed the point entirely.

First off, favor in the world of the gods is a bit more complicated than that. It’s not about handing out blessings. The gods don’t play like that. They’re manipulative, they’re petty, they’re capricious, and frankly, they love a good power struggle.

Athena’s all over Odysseus because she’s into his cleverness, his strategic mind. But Athena is not the only one in the picture, and she’s certainly not the only god pulling the strings. Poseidon, for example, is literally trying to ruin Odysseus’ life. Like, full-on vendetta mode. If you want to talk about a god who’s definitely not favorable to Odysseus, Poseidon’s your guy. Odysseus blinds his son, Polyphemus, and Poseidon’s been dragging his ass across the world, sending storms, wrecking ships, keeping him stranded just to get back at him. That’s some major divine spite right there. So no, it’s not all sunshine and rainbows for Odysseus in the divine world.

And Zeus himself is not particularly fond of Odysseus, but he’s not really against him either. It’s more like Zeus is watching Odysseus, like some cosmic reality TV show where he’s the producer, deciding how much drama he’s going to let unfold before deciding if he’ll step in and make the plot twist. Zeus’ favor is never straightforward. He’s just as likely to screw Odysseus over as he is to give him a hand, depending on what serves his divine narrative in the moment (he does seem to take a liking to Telemachus, however, protecting him and granting all his prayers). And Zeus’ help comes down to something far more pragmatic: the suitors. The gods don’t like when the sacred laws of hospitality — xenia — are broken. And in Ithaca, that’s exactly what’s happening. The suitors have trampled over the sacred bond of guest and host, treating Penelope and Telemachus (who, again, Zeus loves for some reason) with disrespect and raiding Odysseus’ home as if it were their own. They’ve forgotten what it means to show proper hospitality, abusing their position as guests with violence, greed, and arrogance. So, when Odysseus is found by the Phaeacians and taken into their court, it’s no accident. Athena, of course, has had her hand in this, ensuring that he’s welcomed and given the hospitality he deserves, but it’s Zeus who ultimately ensures that this moment happens at all. Zeus watches from afar, his eyes on Ithaca, where the suitors are growing bolder by the day, but his focus shifts when Odysseus arrives in there. The gods see the insult of the suitors as an affront to the divine order. They know Odysseus has suffered long enough, and they know he needs help, but it’s not just about him anymore. It’s about setting things right.

This is also why Poseidon cannot kill Odysseus.

Odysseus must not be killed, and he is to return to his homeland. Athena reassures us, at the end of the book, that Odysseus will die of old age, safely, in his home. And who else can make that happen except for Zeus?

If Poseidon were to outright kill Odysseus — if he were to defy the will of Zeus and remove the mortal from the world — there would be consequences. Poseidon might be able to get away with making Odysseus’ life miserable, extending his suffering, but he knows Zeus would not stand idly by. Zeus is not blind to the suffering of his favored mortals, and Odysseus, despite Poseidon’s best efforts, has a divine protection. Athena and other gods work in the background, ensuring that the hero will survive the trials he faces.

Buttttt if we’re talking about whether the gods favor Odysseus, let’s not overlook Hermes, who actually does play a crucial protective role in Odysseus’ journey. Unlike the gods who are more invested in their own agendas — looking for ways to manipulate, punish, or reward Odysseus for their own purposes — Hermes is, in his own way, a guardian of Odysseus’ path. Now, Hermes isn’t exactly smothering Odysseus the way Athena does. He doesn’t swoop in with that personal “you’re my special chosen one” vibe. But he’s definitely looking out for him, because, well, Odysseus is a hero, and it’s part of Hermes’ job to help heroes. He’s the one who acts as a protector of those who are trying to do something great or trying to get somewhere. Travelers, wanderers, heroes in peril — those are his people. So when Odysseus is in need of help, it’s Hermes who swoops in with a dose of divine practicality.

The most obvious example of Hermes’ protection is when Odysseus lands on Circe’s island. Circe, as we know, has this little hobby of turning men into pigs, and Odysseus, like many before him, is about to fall prey to her tricks. Now, the gods don’t generally intervene with every mortal problem, but Hermes gives Odysseus the moly — that magical herb that protects him from Circe’s spell. Hermes doesn’t do this because he’s head-over-heels for Odysseus or wants to see him succeed out of some personal affection. He does it because, well, Odysseus is a hero and a traveler, and it’s his job to make sure heroes make it through dangerous journeys, whether he likes the guy or not. Same as when he sent Calypso the message to let him go. Hermes doesn’t ask him if he’s okay, doesn’t check in with his emotions; he simply says, “Go. The gods want you to go.” He has a bit more of a “here’s a tool, now go do your thing” vibe. He’s not here to offer emotional support; he’s here to give Odysseus the necessary means to get what he needs done.

So, in the grand scheme of things, Hermes’ help is practical, not sentimental. He’s a god of boundaries, transitions, and messages, and when it comes to Odysseus, he’s not there to offer emotional guidance. He’s there to keep things moving, to keep the mortal moving according to the plan, no matter how hard or traumatic it might be for him.

Now, Helios, the sun god, is infuriated when Odysseus’ men slaughter his sacred cattle on Thrinacia, but his wrath is directed entirely at the crew. Odysseus himself warns his men against harming the cattle, showing restraint and respect for divine boundaries. Helios likely holds no personal grudge against Odysseus; his punishment is enacted through Zeus, who destroys the crew’s ship as recompense for their sacrilege. Helios is more of a neutral force in this context, concerned with the preservation of his property rather than the moral character of the individuals involved. While Circe, Helios’ daughter, is often described as a goddess in some versions, she is primarily considered a nymph. As such, her favor or disfavor doesn’t carry the weight of the Olympians. She doesn’t actively choose Odysseus as a favored, but she does assist him after he demonstrates his cunning and proves immune to her enchantments (thanks to Hermes’ moly). Their relationship is more transactional than anything else: she helps him after he asserts control and provides guidance for his journey.

Calypso is often described as a nymph or a goddess-nymph hybrid, but regardless of her exact classification, her power is undeniable. Calypso doesn’t favor Odysseus in any altruistic sense; her so-called love for him is rooted in selfish desire. Over seven long years, Calypso forces herself upon him, coercing him into a relationship he doesn’t want. This is not an equal exchange or a romantic idyll; Odysseus repeatedly longs to return to Ithaca, to his wife, Penelope, and to his home. Calypso’s offers of immortality and eternal youth aren’t gifts; they’re traps, designed to bind him to her forever. And it takes the intervention of Zeus and Hermes to force her hand. When Hermes delivers Zeus’ decree, Calypso is furious, lamenting the double standards of the gods, who allow male deities to consort with mortals freely but reprimand goddesses for doing the same, all to defend herself raping a man. Calypso’s treatment of Odysseus underscores the darker side of divine attention, where mortals are tools or playthings rather than individuals with their own wills and needs.

And now we get to focus more on your question.

Odysseus isn’t just special because he’s super clever. He's special because, for better or worse, he’s the center of everyone’s drama. Every. Single. God. The gods love meddling in mortal affairs, and Odysseus’ story gives them all the opportunity to play out their power struggles and whims. It’s not just Athena pulling strings behind the scenes; Zeus gets involved, Poseidon gets involved, Hermes throws in his own two stolen cents, two goddesses fall in love with him, and even Apollo has his say (it is said Apollo guided his arrow during his battle with the suitors, however it is up to you if you interpret that as literal or metaphorical). You want to talk about special? Well, what’s actually special is that Odysseus is the one man the gods can’t totally control, save for a few honorable mentions from the Iliad.

Speaking of the Iliad, you see gods throwing all sorts of diplomatic warfare around. But with Odysseus? He’s not following the script. Athena helps him, sure, but even she’s frustrated with how much he insists on doing things his way. Snap back to The Odyssey, take his time in the cave with the Cyclops, Polyphemus. Athena can't directly interfere because he’s being a cocky bastard (which is, you know, typical Odysseus behavior). Instead, she just gives him advice, that he ignores, of course. And when he finally escapes, taunting Polyphemus as he sails away? Athena’s cool with that. But that moment comes back to haunt him later, and he suffers for it.

And don’t even get me started on his moral compass, because Odysseus is not the golden hero we sometimes like to think he is. The fact that he gets the gods’ support doesn’t mean he’s this pure or noble figure. He lies, cheats, and manipulates people like it's his job. He spends a lot of time outwitting people and tricking them. Is that a hero? Technically, yes, but let’s remember that being smart and being good aren’t the same thing. Athena’s there for it, but she’s not exactly giving him a moral guidebook. This man lies as easily as he breathes! The gods are all part of Odysseus' journey, but their “favor” is nothing like the unalloyed support we might imagine. Instead, it’s a dance of manipulation, convenience, and power.

So, does Odysseus really have the gods' favor? In some ways, sure. But in the bigger picture, their favor is always conditional, always tied to their larger schemes. Athena may be the closest thing Odysseus has to a personal cheerleader, but even she has her own motives. Hermes is there for practical reasons, doing his job as a protector of travelers, while Zeus and Poseidon are constantly balancing Odysseus’ fate based on their own whims. The gods help Odysseus not because they’re all in love with him and want to see him triumph. They help him because they see him as a useful instrument. He’s useful to them, just as much as they are to him.

And if you think that divine favor means Odysseus is this saintly, perfect figure, then you’re completely missing the point of the Odyssey. He’s favored not because of some inherent goodness or divinity, but because he works the system better than anyone else. He outsmarts the gods, manipulates his own fate, and survives, but he doesn’t do it without paying a price. They favor him because he’s a fellow player in the messy, manipulative game of survival.

And that’s honestly the most terrifying thing about him: he’s not above the gods, and he knows it. He’s just like them.

Kinda how most of the gods’ favors work in mythology.

[megashadowdragon]

【 Loganne 】Ruthlessness Cover ⌜ EPIC: The Musical ⌟ (FEMALE VER.)

youtube comments

its kind of worse that odysseus left polyphemus alive. by maiming him he has made him (in the eyes of the ancient greeks) a defenseless laughingstock among the cyclopes. it also kind of implies polyphemus is not enough of a threat to warrant being killed, and should instead live with the shame of having been bested by some mortal. had odysseus just killed him it would be a fairly simple case of self defense, two warriors "nobly" duking it out until one of them loses. and like arynoob1392 said, odysseus even left his details with polyphemus, basically forcing poseidon's hand: poseidon knows exactly who hurt, but refused to kill, his son, so honour demands he kill odysseus, and his men for good measure. in greek mythology honour and certain social conventions matter a lot, which can seem really weird to our modern sense of ethics but made sense to the culture these stories came from.

176

Reply

1 month ago No, not at all - Poseidon absolutely WASN'T angry because Odysseus didn't killed his son. But I see that people have already explained it in the comments

18

Reply

1 month ago It was actually cruler to blind(severally hurt) the cyclops also odysseus didn't actually apologise he just gave his own justification about hurting polyphemus (probably spelt wrong)

27

Reply

1 month ago I find it interesting how the composer modernized some parts of the story to match modern sensibilities, but not others, and I think this is one of those situations. By ancient Greek standards, what Odysseus did to Polyphemus really crossed a line because he went out of his way to HUMILIATE him. Killing someone who threatens to kill you is totally within the bounds of normal honorable Greek behavior, but blinding someone (thus rendering them incapable of taking care of themselves), stealing all of their things (thus further rendering them dependent on others), and then telling them your name and address to demonstrate how little you think of them and their ability to avenge themselves is just all kinds of cruel and insulting in a way that really isn't on by Greek standards.

Plus, by extension, Odysseus also insulted all of Polyphemus' relatives, because the implication is that he believes none of them are ready or able to avenge him either. Which is NOT what you want to say to someone with an Olympian father.

In Ancient Greek culture, especially in these heroic stories, being humiliated was considered much worse than being killed in normal violent confrontation, and Odysseus basically waved a big fat middle finger at Poseidon with his actions.

47

Reply

1 month ago more so (and this reflected in the apology) he’s angered that someone would have the audacity to do so to his son, and then to be so stupid as to give him his name too?

[theodysseyofhomer]

#odysseus breaks his own rules of hospitality first though; he breaks into polyphemus's house drinks his wine eats his food#steals his livestock - all of which is exactly what the suitors do to odysseus's house in his absence. a crime for which they are killed#there are myth safter he comes (conquers) home he is instructed to take an oar and walk inland until someone asks him if he is carrying#a winnowing fan for they are unfamiliar with the sea. and there must he plant the oar in the earth make a sacrifice to poseidon#and only then will his travels be over. in most versions he dies shortly thereafter; in a foreign land and never truly being at home again#the odysseys is in a lot of ways about failing to get home#because time and the war have changed you and your home both and you are alien to each other

hmm hi there, thinking some thoughts on this

(a) my understanding is that what odysseus does is not against the laws of xenia, at least the way odysseus tells it. the house isn't broken into; the door is a stone that is, at the time, rolled away. the crew wants to steal and run, but odysseus insists on staying, because he's hoping for a guest-gift, and he brings his own gift in return. odysseus is definitely not respectful of polyphemus' home, but all this is supposedly within the (broad) scope of a host's obligation to strangers. or at least odysseus wants you to believe it is; telling the story to people who seem to share hospitality laws, he is not openly admitting to breaking them.

(b) the suitors' crime was not necessarily drinking odysseus' wine and eating his food so much as overstaying their welcome for 3+ years, and, you know, plotting to kill their host's son. i don't think the text sees them as the same situation, or that an ancient audience would have considered it hypocritical, though i think it's worth challenging on the text on this. you are definitely not the first to compare the two.

(c) do you have any more info on surviving myths about the oar quest? i've never been able to find any when i've looked into it. please, i am begging

we have summaries of stories about odysseus leaving ithaca again, but the only one i'm aware of that tries to deal with tiresias' prophecy is the telegony. but the telegony (at least via apollodorus) makes no mention of the oar part of the quest, and odysseus returns to ithaca before he dies [is manslaughtered by telegonus]. also, tiresias' prophecy in the odyssey itself does explicitly include another homecoming and a death surrounded by his own people.

i do agree that the odyssey can be read as a failure to return home. it's extremely relevant, the idea that odysseus has to walk inland to a place where the symbol of his travels no longer means anything, before he can truly return. to my way of thinking, the fact that we don't actually know the stories about it reinforces the idea that returning home unchanged is impossible. the place does not exist.

it's not so much that a cyclops is monstrous because a one-eyed giant who eats people must be a monster; it's that anyone who does not follow your laws, your customs, your culture must be a monster.

polyphemus eats his guests not because he's a cannibal — cannibalism also being a taboo that applies to humans, and he's not human — but because he doesn't follow xenia. polyphemus says to odysseus "we don't respect zeus here," but odysseus approaches polyphemus as if polyphemus is the foreigner. he expects his customs (which serve him, a conquering hero) to take precedence, even though he is the one away from home. he's been away from home for over ten years.

because to odysseus, there's not much difference between the trojans (the city he's sacked) or the cicones (a people he raided on the way home) and polyphemus, right? except that polyphemus is able to turn the tables. he is a monster, not in the sense that he is not a human being — the trojans have not been treated as human beings — but because he can insist that his law be respected in his own home.

and it's not that odysseus can't adapt. look at how differently he approaches nausicaa, or even circe. but his perspective is what we wayfind by, and all the while odysseus, at troy and during the wanderings, is himself foreign.

and then he comes to phaeacia and weeps over songs of war. and then he comes home and doesn't recognize it. and then divine intervention both hides him from and reveals him to his son and wife. and then he has to conquer his own homeland. and then the poem ends, abrupt and final journey spoken of but unresolved. and each of these things makes his perspective strange to himself, and by extension to us. it is exactly at the moment odysseus comes home that he believes himself to be lost, foreign, for good.