#that whole thing: not having to explain the culture/admitting there's some fucked up in these old transgenerational family dynamics

[anderwater]

[always-a-slut-4-ghouls]

People online will really be like “you! Individual who cares about this subject and said maybe it would be good, even just an off handed comment, explain it in depth immediately even though you have no real training or experience in debates and even if you point me to someone who you know is better at doing so and articulating the points relevant to what you were saying or suggesting, I won’t check them out even if I wouldn’t have to leave the website we are currently on, because I want YOU and ONLY YOU to explain what this topic represents and respond to my bad faith arguments that have been addressed by people better at it than you hundreds or thousands of time and I can easily look at one of them, especially whoever you suggested could explain it better than you. If you can’t defeat every bad faith argument I make in an attempt to completely discredit both you and the thing you care about then obviously everything about it is wrong and I don’t need to think about it at all ever outside of making you look bad and “winning” this impromptu argument that has been seen and addressed before. Also you weren’t trying to explain the point yourself, you just mentioned it and maybe said it might be good. I win, no one should take that idea seriously, and you’re a bad person.”

[antivivziepopparade]

All of the proof that we have that Vivziepop is abusive. (So far....)

While you support this post please go ahead and support my channel to see more about Vivziepop's abusive behavior. Thanks!

1. She rushes her employees.

Season 1 was made in 2020. While Season 2 was made in 2021 while being released with MULTIPLE EPISODES only ONE year later.

That's-

INSANE!

-and im about to tell you why:

The average cartoon needs almost ONE WHOLE YEAR to produce one episode. And this is what we see in MAINSTREAM shows.

Meanwhile, Helluva Boss took only one year (and a half) to make MULTIPLE ENTIRE EPISODES that last over 20 minutes. The longest waiting time for an episode being 8 months. Not even a year, and we get multiple episodes off the drawing board.

You can even see here that it's taken only three years to make 16 episodes. When this is an indie studio, so this should have taken so much longer to make. Yet for some reason, it took only a few years for us to get full seasons. In 2021, we got over 4 episodes alone. Have you ever wondered why these episodes come out so fast while other shows take a lot longer to get new seasons? That's an easy question to ask... Spindlehorse...

Is being ABUSED.

And I have the proof to show.

2. The pay controversy.

Spindlehorse's payment has been under controversy for providing the lowest pay possible to those that work at the studio.

One piece of evidence was given by Adam himself (albeit unintentionally) by saying this:

This kind of pay is highly unstable! And before you say "But he didn't force them to be there-"

LOOK.

The employees themselves admitted that they had no choice. People had no choice and Vivienne Medrano took advantage of that for her own selfish desires. This is disgusting treatment of a studio as small as Spindlehorse. Or any studio for that matter.

Hell! chaifootsteps said once that once Zeurel released that he was paying his animators too low, he deleted one of the tweets showing the low pay and decided to do something to give his employees better wages. Meanwhile, Chimera Bunny pays even less than Viv does and just because paying your workers low is normal in the animation industry- plot twist: Doesn't make it ok!

People have suffered so much in this industry, it's why "New Deal for Animation" exists. The only reason you haven't seen many Vivziepop workers having protests and speaking out is because Vivziepop says things like this behind people's backs if they "dare" do anything she doesn't like:

So that explains as to why so many people remain as "anon" or say nothing at all because they got cold feet. Vivienne's terrible!

Especially since even her top employees have admitted to not being paid enough despite Adam's "I pay them to stay if they make us the most mon-ey!" claims from the article:

Also this:

This is how she speaks about her own employees:

"YOU DONT LIKE HOW I TREAT YOU?! FUCK OFF!"

Straight up abuse.

Also, wasn't Walt Disney known for abusing his employees?

To the point where people had an entire protest in 1914 about it?

Wow... such a healthy workplace treatment comparison. Doesn't make Vivziepop look more like a jerk.... at all! /s

3. She bullies kids/laughed at a sa victim that was sa'ed by her friends. As one kid was bullied into a panic attack (I know them personally) back in about 2020 and Viv decided to vague post about them behind their back even after they apologized.

For someone who's so focused on "forgiving despite cancel culture" she sure likes to blame and harass people for disliking even ONE thing about her show or herself. One thing- and you're harassed over making a meme about a cartoon with fictional characters (What Froot Did that set Vivziepop and Gumball off.)

Secondly, one of her friends sexually harassed a minor.

And instead of acknowledging the sa, Vivziepop wrote this:

She ended up calling it a "joke" and made fun of the victim involved.

This is outright abusive behavior that should not be tolerated.

Children don't deserve to be traumatized this way. Especially over something as simple as making memes about a cartoon (negative or not) or simply telling someone to stop fetishizing abuse.

More on this in this video made by Gummypop:

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAND-

That's all that I have for now!

Will likely be updating this post in the future. Goodbye!

EDIT:

More evidence of Vivziepop using abusive language and slander against her employees behind their back. Claims of them being a "stalker" (like she did to Kedi and also its clear that she told her employees to say that Kaz was a "stalker" otherwise how else would they be saying these things after she fired them.) along with using abusive language such as "CUNT!" to prefer to Kaz this way in a professional setting I cannot. 💀

More evidence of Vivziepop harassing a kid:

ANOTHER edit:

More evidence, she's burning them the HELL out!

Yet ANOTHER edit:

More evidence of Spindlehorse being abusive:

EDIT:

Even MORE evidence:

The fact that the story AND the storyboards AND the animating for season one's episodes were all done in one year is just so crazy to me like... WHAT?! Either way, this post will continue to extend the more that I find evidence. So remember to look forward to that one!

EDIT:

Sadly no, as animation abuse is so common that the police dont even see it as an issue. The last time I tried to call the police on her they needed a location. The problem? There is no location of Spindlehorse since it's a "private" studio. So because of that viv gets away with abuse despite the obvious implications of her behavior and how many people came out with allegations towards her.

[azureblooet]

Ok bitches its fucking time:

LAMB HEADCANNON TIME:

(I separated these into rough catagories cause I have a lot for them and some require me to explain my lore headcannons)

==

General stuff:

Enby obviously (they/them)

Very much a people person

i mean they do run a cult so yeah

Didn't ever do the cannibalism thing (i mean mechanically it doesn't really do anything helpful)

Still needs to eat, but feeds more on the actual devotion rather than normal food.

Like the crown isn’t just bottomless power it still needs to eat devotion

This makes more sense with context of the magic system i have for my headcanons

though giving their body actual fuel to keep itself running means they don't have to sustain it with magic so they still eat

Actually snacks a lot due to both previous food insecurity and to keep their energy up

Also the leader having food preferences is like a point of connection for the cult (more info in the cult section)

They do a little happy single clap thing, like sort of resembling prayer but still fiddles with stuff

Cult:

Tries to make their followers pretty self-sufficient due to their absense during crusades, so they have actual leaders they’ve appointed, they also do sermons while The Lamb is gone.

Notably is praised for being a “god who knows mortal fear and hunger”

Generally has the message of “yo the bishops suck and we all got screwed over by the gods, I’m a god who is also a mortal so I’m different”

Before The Lamb dethroned Narinder him also being screwed over by the gods was a big part of his thing in the theology

Narinder thought this was stupid back at the gateway but the people actually liking The Lamb instead of fearing them makes their devotion a lot stronger

It also FEELS better for The Lamb who has felt a LOT of fear for the gods to be critical of the gods

This also means The Lamb getting sick or something isn’t a big sign of weakness and is more of a “I’m in this with you” type thing.

Nari’s whole “god of death” thing was him being like “the inevitable end of all” and everyone being his in the end whereas The Lamb is more of a “transience is an inevitable part of the world and that makes our lives beautiful” kind of thing

Like the whole “may mortal strife drive us to grow and reach new heights” “take solace as our death unites us all”

This is partially influenced by the beliefs the lambs had with the philosophy of “everything is connected” but also makes people less afraid of death so y’know

The cult’s beliefs and culture is heavily influenced by the lambs for festivals and decoration and iconography (talk a bit more about that in the lambs’s section)

Called “The Lamb” or just “Lamb” by people closer to them but is normally referred to as “Leader”

The Lamb couldn't read at first and had to have followers teach them

Thankfully one of the first followers was a nice librarian lady who is highkey their mom/grandma. Brought her back a few times before getting her gold skulls

She’s a deer, she sort of has fannon shamura vibes? Like that high insight and ability to read people’s emotions

She also highkey parents Narinder too but he’d never admit that

Kinda like dst Wickerbottom? (If you know you know)

Im working on the name, but she’s “Selene” in my notes

Regardless, The Lamb learned to read from her, and teaching literacy is basically her job at the cult

cause of the whole cults thing someone being illiterate is actually pretty common so it's not just kids getting lessons.

The cult grows a lot of cotton cause of The Lamb

Both as a symbol and because of clothes fabric and yarn being important objects of worship

The Lamb is difficult to *scare* but pretty easy to startle as long as you’re quiet.

The lambs/sheep:

Note: I don’t capitalize the word lamb when it isn’t a name for The Lamb

The lambs lived a bit outside of bishops’ real territory so they largely had their own culture and religion

They believed in “strings of fate” and a sort of “everything is tied together and part of a bigger thing”

Yeah like wool and fabric.

Theres more to it than that but that's a factor

Wool yarn and clothes were a big export for them but they were working with other plant fibers too so all types of string were everywhere.

Because of how much string and fabric they’d end up having and how good the textile trade was they had the resources to have a lot of festivals. Be it for seasons, shearing times obvi, cool space/astronomy stuff, whatever.

They didn't really have a church per-say but they had little shrines for like paying respects to nature and the “strings” of fate which tie everyone together.

Complicated braided lanyard type things are sort of “holy” symbols.

Sort of like a rosary?

they didn't have a reigning crown and had just an actual normal-ass town for the most part

Regardless the spiritual and religious stuff was more to justify making things and having festivals.

They’d tie different colored strings and little banners to stuff for festivals and stuff

Dangly bits and tiny puffy ornaments galore.

They did some magic, but it wasn’t much of a priority, it normally was things like little woven charms, protection spells, and maybe the odd glowy ribbon or fireproof coat.

Like they had some thaumaturges and witch doctors to deal with curses and magic injuries but they didn’t have a big faction of magic users

Reguardless! All of this matters because The Lamb makes little fabric dolls and swears about threads and ties and junk.

“ties above!” “ohhhh my fucking strings give me patience…” “oh thank ties”

(i mean in-world the words they’re using for ties/threads/strings is probably in another language, but I’m a monolingual dumbass so whatever)

Though the lambs had less gendered shit which in a world with actual hecking magic goes without saying ig, but their un-gendered parent word is “baba” because duh

(Ill be so fr I didn’t even realize the sheep pun until I had written over 2,000 words but it is very amusing nonetheless)

They had marriage earrings and horn jewelry instead of rings

Not all that important but rings are boring

But yeah the lambs had less ridged gender roles and stuff so The Lamb being enby wasn’t like a big thing or anything

Something about how all genders tie back to the same net of fate or something

Unlike basically every other version of The Lamb I’ve seen, The Lamb remembers a LOT about their home town and their traditions.

They are different than The Land of The Old Faith though so there’s a lot of different cultural values.

Like the lambs ate a lot less meat than The Old Faith people

(Sidebar: do we have a shorter name for this fucking place cause oh my god it’s a mouthful)

Particularly I bring this up cause The Lamb is VERY much not on the cannibalism wagon.

The lambs also had actual methods of water purification and bathing to like keep their wool clean, since they would use it for crafting

Because of that, the lambs were culturally pretty germaphobic and had a reputation for being way too focused on cleanliness

I mean cats are also in that boat but still

The fact that The Lamb knew how water purification works and being more sanitary was also a big part of the cult actually surviving.

I want to imagine that while The Lamb knew about and wanted soap they had no idea how to make it and spent a long ass time trying to figure it out.

They got someone in the cult who knew eventually but it was a whole ordeal

Like someone pulled up and talked about making a bathhouse and The Lamb was like “YES. YES. YES. YES. YE—”

Magic:

Their magic is strong due to the crown supplying a lot of raw power, but their actual form in using magic is sort of sloppy

(To be fair, most gods are like that but The Lamb is exceptionally bad)

Despite the how casually it's portrayed, reading minds is kind of hard and doesn't work on some people

As in: people think differently so unless someone has a really pronounced inner monologue they can’t really read the person’s mind easily.

Like what are you gonna read if the person doesn't think in words?

Feel the vibes learn the vague concept language? You can’t be staring at this mf for that long!

You can indeed be too neurodivergent to mind-read.

Also a few people in the cult can tell when The Lamb is reading minds and most of them responded pretty negatively to it so The Lamb tries not to read minds too often

(yknow cause like consent and privacy and all that?)

(one of those people promptly pulled a knife on them because I mean- its kinda violating for someone to poke around in your head) (The Lamb didn't kill them cause that’s like a fair response but it did scare the shit out of them)

The Lamb is really bad at detecting auras and concealing their own.

Most gods don’t really conceal themselves because their bombastic presence is like part of the gig

Most people can low-key feel auras subconsciously anyways so The Lamb isn’t incapable of it, but they aren’t good at it.

(As to how people feel auras; It’s sort of like how you can low-key feel vibrations even when you can’t hear but since you can normally hear you don’t consciously notice it?)

[pluralforsheep]

CW: Nazism, TribeTwelve, swear words, (vent??)

Spoilers for EMH, Canyouseethewords blog, TribeTwelve and Sebastian's Journal.

Hi, it's me again. No shit. So. It's been like a month since the whole drama unfolded and I haven't stopped thinking about it since. I know things have quieted down lately, and like many others, I wish we could all move on and forget this ever happened. However, I can't simply recover from it, mainly because I feel the posts about me continue to spread on this platform, radiating the negativity and false info about me to this day. This drama has been devouring me for a long time now, and I've decided to make another post. I gotta admit I haven't been 100% honest in my previous post, it was more of my attempt to back off, cry over it and avoid this drama. But I'm not doing that again. I'm done pretending and I'm tired of being nice and tolerating others when they're completely misguided. I'm fucking angry. That's why I decided to make one more post about this and I have so many things to say. This is not another apology post, think of it as a vent post and recap explanation of everything where I'll be brutally honest.

Also, if anyone of you is a Nazi supporter, get the fuck out. I do not welcome you here.

First of all, I do not understand why my efforts have been ignored. I did everything that was asked of me. I acknowledged my so-called ''mistakes'', I owned up to them, deleted the posts, apologized, explained my intentions, and you decide to just fucking ignore it?? What do you want from me then, huh? I'm not the ignorant here, you are fucking ignorants. Made me realize I actually haven't done anything wrong. Made me wonder if I should've even deleted those posts, I put a lot of effort into them, and some people actually liked them. It's not my fault some of you are sensitive and brainwashed by censorship culture and you can't accept or understand a canon-accurate depiction of characters. You think I've been sweeping something under the rug? No. In fact, it's the opposite. You've been sweeping this whole shit under the rug by dismissing me as a Nazi supporter, just because I drew something that was considered canon for so many years. I've done nothing wrong, I've been honest about my art the entire time. I draw what I enjoy and what is accurate to the lore. I love history and the Slenderverse, and I draw canon-accurate content, yet you get mad over it. It's so ridiculous. If this post can't open your fucking eyes, I don't know what else will, and frankly I don't care anymore. I'm done with this shit. I've acted like the adult I am, and took responsibility. However I'm not going to point any fingers or dismiss anyone specifically, because I am not like this.

And to everyone: If you don't like something, just ignore it. But if it really seems problematic and malicious, why not contact the person directly and talk it out, or find ways to know their true intentions instead of making hundreds of hate-posts about them like some pissy children. This is such a toxic behavior.

About the whole Nazi stuff:

Don't get me wrong. Nazism is a sensitive topic, I understand that. But I think being offended by it right now, in the 21st century, is just so ridiculous to me. I understand it can get very annoying tho. They talk about WW2 and the Austrian painter on TV non-stop. But being offended by some art? Like, are you serious. Do you realize Nazi shit has been in so many fanfiction, stories and literature for so many years, and you have no reason to get offended by it? The Nazi concept has been used in so many media, whether just for a joke or a serious plot point. South Park, Family Guy, Indiana Jones, Marvel Universe, X-Men, The Boys, and God knows what else.. Would you get offended by a fanart of cute little fat boy Eric Cartman? Of course not. But I can easily say: ''He's a Nazi! You drew a cute fanart of him! You're a Nazi supporter!'' That's you. That's how you sound. Do you see how ridiculous that is? There are thousands of people shipping him with Kyle Broflovski, oh but he's a Jew, and they hate each other in the show. Yet there are artists who make ship art of them. Does anyone complain? At the end of the day, they're just fictional characters, and I rather ignore it even if it kinda annoys me. Btw, South Park is just an example of this issue, I'm not targeting anyone or anything specifically here.

The Brandit post:

I really need to go back and add something to that post of HABIT saying ''LET'S FUCK AND PISS OFF OUR ANCESTORS.'' which creeped Firebrand out (honest reaction). That quote seemed really harsh, I know. Was it bad humor? Yeah.. But do I regret drawing this? At this point, I must say no. I did not stutter. As I said, I will be brutally honest from now on. Do you think HABIT wouldn't say that? Do you think he wouldn't say something sexual to a Jewish person, or frankly to anyone really? Yes, he would!! It's in his nature, he's fucked up. Are we trynna ignore the fucking scene of HABIT pulling the jerk off gesture at Noah?? Did we all not see the same thing?? He is like this. He makes fun of him while adding Christmas decorated borders on a letter for him. He's aware Noah is Jewish, yet he pulls a sexual gesture at him. Don't try to deny this one.

About the symbols... From what I've just said, I drew the little symbols there next to them (Star of David and Hakenkreuz) because I wanted people to see and realize the fact that these two guys are a Jew and a (former) Nazi, which people have been sweeping under the rug, not me. Also, if anyone remembers the post I made, I believe I wrote ''I should have put Christmas borders there as well/jk.'' under it or something like that. I removed it later on because people didn't seem to get it. It was obviously a reference to Severance. Everything I draw is a fucking reference. That being said, this post was made for awareness, not romanticization, and I do not ship them, neither romantically nor platonically, I just really like drawing them together, because of their iconic trope, canon interactions, mutual respect and shared spite for Slenderman, and the fact that HABIT helped Noah many times. That's it. Also, I wouldn't ship HABIT with anyone romantically. That is just wrong in so many levels.

Canyouseethewords blog and Sebastian's Journal:

If you didn't grasp the point of the Josef Mengele post either, go read Canyouseethewords blog here on Tumblr. It's part of the EMH lore. Basically, this blog belonged to Evan's girlfriend Stephanie, but HABIT takes over the blog later on and makes various posts about infamous real serial killers, such as Ed Gein, Jack the Ripper, and even the Nazi doctor, Josef Mengele. Whether HABIT wanted to imply that he's possessed those various people, that part of lore remains silent. At some point, I believed he's possessed those various people, so I wanted to to draw one of them, and I chose to draw Josef simply because I liked the idea of the connection with him and The Event from T12. That's it. And if that weren't the case that he's possessed any of those people, which would be rather a big relief, he's still possessed a different Nazi character in T12, which has been retconned. A character that no one really seems to know of, which is understandable. I get that some people don't want to analyze and support T12 anymore after what Adam did. In all honesty, I think sometimes it's best to separate the creator from the creation. I hate Adam, but I love T12. Anyway, in the story of Sebastian's Journal is a guy named Sergeant Heine who is (or was supposed to be) possessed by HABIT at some point. It implies to Severance where HABIT said he's been working with a group of Nazis on a particular project, including Sebastian. However, that connection has been retconned.

The HABIT/Nazi lore shit, people keep complaining and pissing about for no reason:

Listen, it was part of the lore for so many years that it's difficult to simply ignore it now. As someone who's been part of the Slenderverse fandom for years, going back, I just cannot think of it as a non-canon at this point. And I've already said the point of HABIT's character, and you all should know this by now. However I'll clarify it again anyways. The point is that he's an abomination of all the horrific actions humanity has committed, including atrocities of Nazism. He's done so many bad shit, as if eating a baby on screen wasn't enough, yet, of all the things he's done, people get mad over him being a former Nazi?? Like are you kidding me.. It's so ridiculous and hypocritical.

However... When I think about it, maybe HABIT was never even a Nazi, I mean- Working with them is one thing. He probably doesn't even give a single fuck about some ideology bullshit. He likely participated in the Nazi party purely for the sake of killing people. He wouldn't care less if his victims were Jews, Romani, or anyone else, he simply enjoys killing people for the sake of torture. Heck, he doesn't even remember the name of the party he was in. In Severance, he stuttered when trying to say ''Nazis'', which, in my opinion, was funny as hell. But that one is just an idea of his character.

Anyway. Even if HABIT wasn't a former Nazi at all, would it change anything? Absolutely not. He would still be the same horrible piece of shit he is. And sorry not sorry, but he was never meant to be a likable character. As a well-written antagonist, yes. But as a person? Hell no, so far from it. There is literally no reason for people to get mad over him being a former Nazi, and if you are, it's hypocritical of you, considering everything else he's done.

I must say one more thing, and it's the only thing I'm truly sorry for is that I didn't put content warnings and explanations on those posts. I made people angry unnecessarily for my impulsive actions.

I think that's all. Perhaps I've learned something by the end of the day, and I hope that at least some of you who are reading this, have learned something as well. Thank you so much for taking the time to read this (if you have), I appreciate it so much. See you on the flipside.

[gabessquishytum]

ok, Selkies then, right? Cool, I got my BA in literature and cultural studies for this moment.

So some neigboring Queen gives Hob this seal fur coat she found. She trying to tell to Hob that she's totally DTF, but Hob is just like "right, thanks," and has the coat put away and doesn't want to think about it cause he's not really ready for the whole marriage thing, it's all stupidly political and complicated and he'd rather just keep the gifts the suitors-to-be send over in a hall where he doesn't have to look at them.

Meal while, Dream has been looking for his coat left and right, and that sucks because he wants to be a seal again. Eventually, he find that it was sold at market to a woman who worked for the queen, and when he tracked her down, the woman informed him that the queen gave it to Hob.

So *heavy sigh* Drean has to go tell Hob that he, Dream, needs his coat back to go back home.

No one will let him see Hob, no one will tell Hob that Dream wants an audience. And Dream has to brake into Hob's bed chambers to demand the coat back.

When Hob wakes up, he sees this man over him and is like "well, something just awoke in me."

But Dream has no time for these sexy shenanigans, he wants his coat back and if Hob could just kindly point him to wear it's being kept, Dream can get it and be on his way home.

And Hob, very happy to be rid of the coat for a good cause, says "I can get that for you," and Before Dream can stop him, Hob get's the coat and hands it to Dream. Dream won't take it, so Hob just drops it in his arms, so Dream can't really refuse him.

Hib gives one of his warm and goes back to bed, but Dream follows him.

Hob explains that he doesnt need permission to leave, and Dream should return home.

And Dream meekly explains that returning the coat like this was akin to a marriage proposals, and Dream taking it basically meant they were married now, and it would be impolight for him to *a-hem* leave his husband wanting on their wedding night.

And Hob doesn't want Dream to feel obligated, but Dream's on board if Hob is, and who is Hob to argue if a beautiful husband gals into his lap?

Hob is like fuck yeah!! I don't have to do all the boring political matchmaking!

But of course he feels super guilty for accidentally trapping Dream into a marriage! He feels like such an idiot. But Dream is like "actually my family sent me onto land to try and find a spouse but things got complicated and I lost my coat so this is good, I can go home and tell everyone that I'm not useless!"

And Hob is like "useless?? Why would your family say that, you're obviously perfect???" And Dream blushes and decides that his new husband is rather lovely, actually.

Turns out that Dream is actually a selkie prince! His family kind of suck and he much prefers being Hob’s consort. Dream tries to let Hob have the coat back to show that he won't run away but Hob refuses because he's determined to let Dream have as much freedom as he needs to be himself. So Dream takes Hob to the sea and they swim together and have sex on the beach as a kind of big Fuck You to Dream’s terrible family.

Hob issues a proclamation that is basically like "if you fucking touch my husband or his coat i will have you personally murdered :))" and I like to imagine that they have lots of lovely little selkie babies together or alternatively adopt some babies who have lost their parents. And when Dream goes back to visit his family, they have to begrudgingly admit that he's done very, very well for himself.

[ominous-faechild]

I have a Problem in that I love to over-explain things even when I don't need to.

Especially when I don't need to. 😭

On that note! I'm working on my introduction post again (take a guess how many times I've gone to work on it and then stopped) and I went too in-depth when I should really be focusing on making it shorter, haha.

Except... I don't want to get rid of what I've written, and still want to share it.

SOLUTION!

My Obsessions:

✦ Fantasy, horror, mystery, action, and exploration of realistic characters' reactions to the things they go through.

What I write tends to be a reflection of this. My main works are high fantasies placed in what I feel is a more realistic setting--not as in grimdark "realistic", but places that are very used to the existence of magic. Someone who's grown up in a place with magical basically-electricity shouldn't spend five pages fawning over the existence of teleporters. Maybe they'll be surprised. Maybe they'll even be impressed. But unless they have some kind of a special interest in the subject, they'll probably spend more time thinking about how convenient it'll be for them rather than how it works, what it means, and the long, long history of magic... which has been around them for their whole life.

✦ Fairy tales, mythology, and folklore

I called myself "ominous-feychild" for a reason, haha. I like horror, I love fantasy, I adore faeries, and dear god--am I in LOVE with putting them all together! In folklore, faeries weren't cute little pixies that helped everyone around them... or even tiny little pixies that annoyed everyone around them (most of the time). They were the things that went "bump" in the night, that you huddled in close with your loved ones when you thought you might've caught their attention... Or, they made you question if your sister's eyes were always that far apart. Wait, was your bedroom there before? Did... did you even have a sister??? Well, you do now. And you might want to start running.

✦ "Ye Olde History" and language

"Ye Olde" meaning "the further away from modern day, the better." I can appreciate steampunk and actually often implement it into my own writing, but I do not consider Victorian England to be old. Civilization has been tracked back to as early as 4000 BCE, and it's way too easy to google that to think history actually started when Jesus was put on the cross. (Note: I am a merciless agnostic and hate what Christianity did to our world's history. So much was erased just because some bigots thought "stupid people don't think and act exactly like me, they're clearly barbaric! Time to erase their entire culture, massacre their people, and/or destroy their creations! Empathy be damned!!!" Fuck Christianity. To any Christians reading this, I don't mean you--just your religion. But you have to admit, it really sucks.)

✦ DIVERSITY!!!

As I just alluded to, I love learning about things that are unlike me. And, even more than that, I love people feeling like they have a place they belong. I've gone most of my life feeling ostracized, I'm not just going to perpetrate that cycle myself. Besides! It gets exhausting being in echo chambers with the same-old white cishet stories all the time.

✦ Explorations of "evil-coded" characters and abilities--aka, not just showing them as evil. Show them as people (for characters) and tools (for abilities)!

This is actually kind of personal to me. Autism and other disabilities have historically most often been relegated to villains because we're somehow "worse" than everyone else. Even I fell into that trap in the past, accidentally making a villain autistic-coded before I got my diagnosis. Now, I love putting people with questionable traits, powers, and backstories on the good side while the typically "good" things end up as villains. Something something, humans want freedom and freedom is chaos, something something, order is forcing things into boxes they might not particularly fit in because "otherwise, where else would they go???"

✦ Learning!!!

This might be weird, but I have a genuine love for just learning! (Not school, just learning.) I go down rabbit holes researching things all the time--and not just for writing! Obviously two of my favorite subjects are history and language, but I also love earth science and the ways our planet regulates itself to try to maintain balance! (And then we humans screw it up but.) Even in general, I love learning about random things, so if you ever have a weird infodump you really want to share, feel free to tag me in it and I'll check it out!!!

Yeah, by the way, this is linked to my actual intro post!

Divider by @cafekitsune

[gnashingwailing]

@fireflywritesgt ok i read your tag on ch21 and i took that as a personal challenge (and then while I was writing this you dropped ch22 and THEN 23 and murdered me. but i'm back now. so)

HELLO Ok fuck yeah hold on everybody take my hand. We’re theorizing about this chapter 🙏 spoilers thru ch23 below

Re: the tag: dare I hope the next story will be set in a similar time/place… i MUST ADMIT despite the significant broader cultural stigma of such a thing. I have often contemplated. Harry and Joe helping with providing socialized miniature healthcare 😭 (maybe to wherever Lorraine lives[?] or knows of?) and when I heard mention of a Tiny Town Hospital… one must wonder how this compares to a Giant Hospital, or to the barber surgeon dens that Joe has presumably had some frostbitten toes cut off at.

OTHER THINGS I’M SPECULATING ABOUT: “certainly, bandits were a problem a borrower occasionally had to face” 🤔 damn that's rough. I do love the sense that there are few overarching cultural norms, whether it's around marriage or language or so on. Everybody is kinda doing their own thing (including robbing each other oof).

I am also VEEEERRY curious about the implications of WHATEVER the tinies that are working in Tiny Town are doing. What kind of mechanized thing could be profitable from a lot of little guys pressing buttons? Or is it maybe not something physical they’re producing? Is it instead a research project? Some attempt at “civilizing” the tiny society for giant colonialism reasons? There’s got to be some kind of output here that is valuable to some kind of giant, but I’m still mystified at what it will be. “Joe wanted to ask him about the four armed giants who stood outside of Tiny Town” YEAH MAN ME TOO‼️ <- secretly delighted this is still coming up because I want to know what it means QUITE BADLY

Joe lamenting that there don't seem to be any libraries, or restaurants, or speakeasies, or any mark of ... art or entertainment? In Tiny Town? I REALLY HOPE Joe and Harry get over themselves and kiss soon so they can TALK ABOUT HOW FUCKING WEIRD THIS PLACE IS???? It made me INSAAANE THAT JOE JUST BRUSHED OFF TALKING ABOUT IT AT ALL 😭 JOE TO HAVE THOSE THINGS. PEOPLE HAVE TO WORK AT THEM. ARE ALL THE PEOPLE IN TINY TOWN JUST WORKING ON PUSHING BUTTONS??? JOE PLS

“Expecting handouts from the bloody giants…” sooo fascinating to hear him voice this, since this whole project is a handout in the absolute best case scenario (given that scraps are worthless to giants), although likely closer to a prison, as Professor Hill called it. Still patiently waiting for his smart and cool wife to explain things to me <3

I hope Joe will deign to really talk about what happened to him… GURL go process it with ur beautiful best friend!! Let him hold you and comfort you and tell you you’re literally so smart and correct and everything you’re saying about ditching the buttons part entirely is literally so beautiful and true!!! Go rock his world with your insights king!!!

Also lmfao Joe is definitely not Irish bcuz his Irish Goodbyes need some SERIOUS work. King of just literally running off when he’s not feeling a conversation anymore.

Me 🤝Joe <- autistically just leaving

He does this so often and it makes me cackle every time. Wait hold on those great meme posts make me want to make a JUST WALK OUT! One.

Absolutely loving the tension of it all… the reveal that Joe was doing watchmaking when he was TWELVE, meaning (if I'm keeping track of time correctly) he got snatched right after he was ABANDONED BY HIS ONLY FAMILY IN THE WORLD, was so artfully done. I had to stop in my tracks and think at the “he’d known O’Grady longer in his life than he hadn’t” and do math and be like “oh fuck.” Maybe this was teased prior and I didn’t pick up on it, but it hit HARD. For some reason I hadn’t assumed he was a kid — but why wouldn’t he be? If little kids are already doing things like crawling into discarded beer bottles. Fuck, Warren, heartbreaking stuff. Bravo. Of course Joe would be as dedicated to going and seeing him as he was Harry in the hospital. He cares so deeply about everyone, but especially his friends. It’s too bad O’Grady is no longer in a place to reciprocate the love Joe gives !!! But of course Joe still would not be ready to throw away the boot knife O’Grady made for him… “a decision that would forever change Joe’s life” btw I can hear ur evil hehe from here. :)

Also btw THIS little detail is one of those things that makes rereading your story so delightful: “They invade our end of the city, take our jobs, show up at our bar… did we invite them? No.” O’Grady was practically ranting. “And when we politely tell them to leave, what do they do?” O’Grady pointed to his bandaged head. “Watch out for them once you get here. They’re not good Irishmen like you and me, Joe.” juxtaposed with the actual breaking news we heard from the radio ? "“AN IRISHMAN AND AN ITALIAN ARE IN THE HOSPITAL AFTER A MASS BRAWL OUTSIDE A BAR ENDED IN A CRACKED SKULL AND A STABBING. NEITHER OF ‘EM HAVE BEEN IDENTIFIED YET.”" a fucking STABBING = "politely tell them to leave"? What kinds of things has Joe's friend gotten used to excusing?

And of course I love the moments of solidarity within the tragedy of the newly realized (or at least newly stoked) xenophobia between borrowers. Joe being reminded of how his parents spoke, and how his brother shooed him off, in the gestures of a stranger… you really do a great job of evoking the ways we are all connected to each other. His family is gone, but he still sees them everywhere he looks. [pacing my enclosure and being sooo normal about how Joe has purposefully isolated for a decade and yet cannot help but see the beauty and humanity of his fellow man whether tiny or giant bcuz despite thinking he’s wired wrong, he’s actually wired like all of us who have felt that way for our unusual proclivities. He’s wired for connection with his fellow man. And he’s so wired for it u can feel how much it hurts his heart. Haha I’m sooooo .] The older guy was trying to warn him off crossing a white line into the “Irish ward”, too, right? The gesture was a kindness. And speaking of, does that mean the little tunnel somebody dug is to the Irish district? Or was I turned around and it was the Italian one? Either way — who would be trying to get in here, and why? Maybe it’s just a desperate person, but O’Grady talking about how bad it’d be if they saw Joe, and the need for an ID, makes me think it’s not someplace you can sneak into and integrate with. Just makes me curious as to whether it’ll come up again!!

THIS is also something I'm wondering about -- could the 'output' of Tiny Town maybe be researching, like... ethnonationalism? In the wake of WWI? Those drawn lines separating different 'wards'... do we think Tinies came up with this shit on their own? I doubt it, if someone like Dawson who is immediately assigning people nationalities that we know from Calloway's nobody "normal" in borrower society knows/cares about. HMMMmmmmMMMMM. I'm still reaaaaally curious how much Hill knows about this place and what hand, if any, he had in it. ONCE AGAIN, boys get kissing so you can also get TALKING. I think Harry would have much to say about how pointless it is to hate individuals from other nationalities after everything he saw during the war. Or so I assume, given he had no bad reaction to Joe being Italian.

AND WELL THIS IS LESS THEORYCRAFTING AND MORE “ME WANTING TO WRITE MORE FANFIC ABOUT THEM” BUT I WAS SOOO DELIGHTED THE CHAPTER DIDN’T END WITH HIM LEAVING TINY TOWN AND WE INSTEAD GOT DRESS REHEARSAL 2 OF HARRY AND JOE GETTING SO FUCKING DOWN BAD FOR EACH OTHER AT THE WINDOW & IN THE BEDROOM. YIPPEEEEE <- this was written before ch22 lol pictures taken moments before disaster

“Joe fidgeted for a moment as he fought with himself over whether or not to say what he really wanted to say.” … did you say what you really wanted to, there, pal? 🤨

I'm sooooo glad Joe's books are making more and more appearances... much like Harry I'm endlessly delighted by his culture. I wanna know what shaped his romantic fantasies!!

""Yeah, the ending on this one isn't great. They're cowards. Could've at least said they loved each other." Joe said.

He closed the book and snuggled into the crook of Harry's neck." <- Lmao @ these two guys so allergic to talking about their feelings shit-talking the romance book protagonists while they're literally cuddling in bed and not acknowledging it

Did he own these books when he was a kid? I imagine so, but on the other hand? HEY HOLY SHIT I REALIZED AFTER CH23 SOMETHING I SUSPECTED BUT COULDN'T CONFIRM: if homophobia isn't something borrowers have. Is one of these romance novels Joe owns going to be between two men? Harry is going to get his fuckin world rocked. Him and Georgie stole books from the library before, but I doubt they found any gay romance stuff (still impossible for baby-gay-Gnash to find that almost 100 years later in their rural libraries, lol.) Would this be Harry's first exposure to something like that? Wahhh... hurry up and open up to each other again you need to talk culture ASAP...

I'm also very curious if borrowers would have more taboo novels of their own, particularly giant/tiny stuff. And would Joe have come across any of it? I imagine it'd be extremely difficult to sell things like that without a beating, but maybe in bigger night markets -- and Joe said he's been in lots of very big cities... if his third novel is some really salacious g/t writing that would do numbers here on tumblr dot com I'm going to lose my god damn mind.

[jedusaur]

WIP amnesty: Jamie meets Phoebe

(this was going to be a longer fic, but now that they've met in canon I'm not feeling it anymore, so here's what I'd written so far)

Roy was expecting meeting his parents to be the hard part, because of all the daddy issues. It would have made sense, given Jamie's pathological need for approval and inability to relate to anyone more than six years older than him, not to mention the whole shirtless suit thing. Surely he'd be a disaster with parents. But no, it went fine, they had lasagne and mostly talked about football and made it through the evening with a minimum of awkward moments. And once that was over, Roy reckoned they were pretty much out of the woods family-wise. It wasn't like Jamie was ever going to set them up for a nice lasagne with his dad.

Apparently Roy miscalculated the intimidation factor of a ten-year-old girl.

"Take a fucking breath," he says, gingerly rubbing Jamie's shoulder. "What are you losing your shit for? Kids love you."

"Kids are impressed by me," Jamie corrects. "She won't be impressed, she's Roy Kent's niece." He's perched against the wheel well of the G-Wagon in the car park at Phoebe's school, bent over with his hands on his knees, having some kind of panic attack or something. Roy has no clue what to do.

"Take a fucking breath," he repeats, and waits until he hears Jamie drag some air into his lungs. "It's going to be fine. She's just a kid."

"What if she doesn't like me?" Jamie looks up at him, and Roy is horrified to see wetness in his eyes. "What if she hates me? You wouldn't be able to be with someone she hated."

That, Roy decides, is enough of that. There's only so much feelings bullshit he can tolerate. He grabs Jamie by the shoulders and roughly straightens him up, lifting his chin in hopes of tipping the tears back in where they belong. "My ten-year-old niece does not dictate where I put my dick," he says firmly, and presses a kiss to Jamie's quivering lips.

"Uncle Roy?"

Jamie tries to jerk away from the kiss and bashes his head against the car window. "Fuck!"

Roy groans and checks briefly to make sure Jamie hasn't damaged his skull or the window too badly before turning to look at Phoebe. She's standing there wearing her backpack, arms folded, taking in the scene.

"This," she muses, "feels like a situation I can get some ice cream out of."

Roy has never seen Jamie this uncomfortable, at least not openly. Usually he covers up discomfort with bravado, which actually would probably work better on Phoebe than it does in the dressing room. But here, sitting in a booth across from Roy and his niece at an ice cream shop, he's vibrating out of his skin.

Phoebe glances up at Roy, vaguely concerned. "What's wrong with him?" she asks, making no attempt to whisper.

Roy snorts. "Well, there's a question with a few hundred thousand answers."

She frowns. "Isn't he your boyfriend?"

"Yes." They've covered that part in advance.

"Then why are you being mean to him? You're never that mean to Keeley."

Roy considers trying to explain dressing room culture and their particular history, but he can imagine the series of increasingly specific questions that would follow, and in the end he would just have to admit that ultimately it's all stupid bullshit. "You're right," he says. "I shouldn't be mean to him. Sorry, Jamie."

Jamie's jaw fully drops, which is fucking unnecessary. Roy scowls.

Phoebe has already moved on. "Why aren't you having ice cream?" she asks Jamie.

He glances down at his coffee. "Uh, I'm not allowed ice cream during the season."

"Not allowed?" She shoots Roy a severe look. "Uncle Roy, you shouldn't have a boyfriend who isn't a grownup."

Oh fuck. Roy can just hear his sister's voice on the phone asking why Phoebe is telling all her classmates Roy Kent is a pedo. He jumps in to shut that shit down, talking over Jamie's frantic attempts to do the same thing, and Phoebe lets chaos reign for a moment before losing her straight face and busting into giggles. 

"Telling me off for being mean to him," Roy grumbles, trying not to let her see him fighting a proud grin. Jamie looks a bit like he's been hit by a bus. "That was fucking mean."

"He's not my boyfriend," she points out, tucking into her ice cream.

[my-castles-crumbling]

Hey Cas, Leo Anon.

I have successfully blown up my life since the last ask I sent you, so before you read this entire thing and call me a dick, just know… I know. 

It turns out Leo does still have a crush on me. And I still have a crush on him (it’s one of those annoying crushes that hasn’t just gone away after a month. Or a year. Or two).

He told me he still had a crush to explain his reaction and apologised. I then admitted I still have a crush on him.

And that’s where it all went downhill.

Leo got accepted into his dream university, and told us a few months ago under no certain terms would he dream of delaying going.

So when he said “I could go with you and Benjamin in the gap year” I panicked. (Benny’s my best mate btw, he’s obsessed with the Harry Potter dudes and has been complaining non stop about not having the time to enter your conan fest? Which is true he’s super busy- but he’s excited to read the fics i think cause he’s loves conan gray. Ngl I know nothing abt the Harry Potter fandom, hope that’s chill. He’s how I found this blog actually- and you’re really kind to take the time to read about how i’ve ruined my life). 

Back to the plot. Leo said what he said and I freaked, I didn’t want him coming with us and then resenting me later for him missing uni. 

I told him that’d interfere with me and Benny’s plans to hook up with a bunch of people. 

He got really quiet and sounded really sad as he said he had to go. 

We didn’t have plans to hook up with people. I panicked and lied…

Oh and gets worse. Word got back to Benny’s girl (they’re not technically dating yet but they are) who’s going to a dif country after the summer for skl, and so we were gonna delay our trip where she is so Benny and her could hang.

But she heard what I told Leo abt hooking up and was mad. So I had to do some damage control.

I met up with her and told her only I was hooking up with people, I just didn’t want to hurt Leo’s feelings any more than I had.

She accepted that and her and Benny are chill but word got back to Leo and now he hates me. 

He thinks I lied and I wanted to spend the whole time hooking up with people and he’s never meant anything to me and I don’t care about people. 

If we’re being honest, I wasn’t going to hook up anyone on this trip. I hate hooking you with people. 

Benny said he thinks i’m on the ace spectrum (demi something he said, like the singer idk?) 

It was chill with my first gf, but my ex bf pressured me into it since i’d “already lost my virginity so what?” and then I hooked up with like one other person before deciding it wasn’t really for me.

But I had a rep by then somehow and everyone thought I was some play boy. 

I figured my mates knew that wasn’t true but turns out they all believed the rumours too. 

Point is, Leo thinks he’s “just another on of my hookups” when the most we’ve ever done is make out and I felt more then than anything else i’ve ever done. 

This is stupid. I shouldn’t bother you with my dumb problems. Sorry.

I know I ought to apologise and come clean and stuff but, maybe it’s better if I just leave the friendship fucked up, that way he won’t sacrifice anything for me and I can fuck around the world being cultural and shit. He can do better anyway. 

Hi!

Alright, you need to communicate with him!

You can't lie to make someone else's decisions for them! That's not cool! Look at where it's gotten you!

Please, sit Leo down and tell him everything- including that you don't want him to give up Uni for you. But remember that's his decision. If you like him and maybe want to be in a relationship with him, you need to respect his wants and needs, don't decide for him. Talk together about what's best <3

You're not a bad person, I know you were trying to help him. But the best thing to do is talk about it.

Tell Benny I say hi, and he should come try the fest!

[nrdmssgs]

A heart full of pity (part 2)

Masterlist Part 1

Part 3 Part 4 (final)

Angst, hurt/comfort

Pairing: Nik x unnamed afab OC

Summary: He wishes there was another way to make her not give up and fight on. He wishes, he could make it better. But there are habits, that proved being effective. Habits and patterns that make him harm even those, he deeply cares about

TW: Mention of physical injury (burns). Inaccurate description of military operations. Swearing. Mental abuse (manipulation. none of characters is left happy with it.)

Authors note: I still don't try to praise Russian culture. This time I tried to show, how FSB background can make someone cold, unsettling even cruel in a way. FSB in real life is still bad. Nikolai is a unique character, he does not represent any realities of life in Russia or work in the FSB. I don't romanticize Russia or FSB in real life. This is just fiction. I don't intend to harm anyone with it.

Thanks: @homicidal-slvt is still an absolutely incredible person, who helped me start this all. But there is also @sofasoap who created Lastochka series. If you have time for only ONE work to read today - please go and read Lastochka.

She woke up in another life, distant and long forgotten. The light shone even through her closed eyelids, turning the darkness into a bright red. Some familiar scent tingled her nose, muffled but also strangely familiar sounds echoed somewhere deep in the flat. It was as if she was again just twelve, caught up cold and had to stay home. No school for her today, no worries - just a slow lazy morning, loads of tea with honey and lemon, and if she's lucky enough to have a fever - unlimited raspberry jam. Her peaceful slumber was distracted only by a strange pulling sensation, sending waves of pain from her ankles along both sides of the hips to her waist. But she yet couldn't decide if the pain was worth of any worry: it wasn't that bad anyway. 

That was until she heard a soft rumbling voice from somewhere above. “I like it when you smile.” And just like that the illusion is gone: she gradually recalls everything, that happened prior. Now, when her mind traced all the way back to the reason behind the pain - it washes over her body again, making her wince, opening her eyes. “My oh my… and I remember times, when women kept happy expressions, seeing me beside their beds.” Nik tilts his head and raises eyebrows. “How many of them were in my condition?” She watches him rise, move the stool to the bed, and leave the room.

“None that I can recall…” He comes back in a minute with a lightly steaming bowl. “So you say, if it wasn't for your condition, you'd be beaming?” “I say…” She slowly rises on a bed with Niks help. “If it wasn't for my condition - I wouldn't end up in this bed.” “Ouch. Breaking my heart right there.” Nikolai chuckles softly. Of course, he is joking deliberately, and it's a good sign, she reacts. Although her motions are slow and shaky - she manages to eat almost the whole bowl, so he can give her ‘the desert’, which consists of a good pile of analgesics. “How much time do I have?” She doesn't need to explain any further - Nik knows exactly what she's referring to. “I've talked to Price this morning, you have about an hour. And… the whole operation is just your call now. I'm ready whenever you are.” Her face changes as if she's just stumbled upon something, hit against an invisible wall. She closes her eyes, slowly breathes in and answers, ‘don't be ridiculous. I'm done for. I'll admit, I've fucked up, and he'll send someone better to lead the whole thing’. Nikolai gives her a heavy long look. Suddenly, all the jokes and playfulness are drenched from the room. She feels smothered with a guilt building up inside and can't make herself look back him in the eyes. “I'm sorry in advance.” Nik leaves her wondering, what was he actually meaning. After some time, he brings a big mirror from the hallway. It's covered with dust and has a few chips on the edges. She tries to find out, what is he up to, but he exits the room once again and comes back with another mirror - a much smaller one, that he gives her.

“I was wondering, why did they leave us be?” Nikolai gently guides her to rise and sit on the edge of the bed, facing him. It doesn't happen in one swift motion, because her wounds are still fresh, so he proceeds “We were such an easy target, when this all happened, it must have pained them to not hit us…” As Nik speaks, she leans on his shoulder and slowly straightens her back, finally meeting his gaze fixed on something behind her. “And as much as I want to believe, It's because they don't want to become my personal targets, I must admit - their reasoning goes far beyond that.” He tucks under the bandages covering her torso and starts undoing them gently. “Nikolai, don't bother, I can change those by my-” He cuts her out by just glancing down in her eyes. His gaze is cold, distant. “Sit still for me and listen. Those bastards put Molotovs in children hands not to end you.” Nik reveals her bare back from under layers of the bandage and guides a small mirror in her hands so that she can see every detail of what exactly she now looks like. “They wanted to make a point, send Price a clear message. ‘Mess with us and this is what happens. You are powerless here, your people are nothing but meat to be roasted. We'll make them suffer so hard, they'll forget, who they were, they'll return to you broken only for you to blame yourself for that. It will hurt even to glance at them’. Now, as I said, it's your call. But you should ask yourself if their message is to be delivered.” She listens to him, seeming calm, not tearing her eyes from a little mirror. But Nikolai knows very well, what his words are doing to her: her heartbeat rose, her pupils slowly widen. It isn't the first time he has to manipulate someone, but this time it leaves him with such an disgusting aftertaste, that he is genuinely grateful when she asks him to leave her alone for the call.

Out on the street, he desperately searches for anything to distract himself: first, he checks the backyard of the house where they took refuge, then leaves it, blends with the crowd and wanders forward aimlessly. It's strange, he used to manage it much easier, but now he had a heavy heart. It was a really long time, since he felt that bad for hurting someone. Was it in her interest? Probably. Was it worth it? That he would find out later. Would he do such a thing to her ever again? Not even if she begs him to.

Nikolai keeps roaming around, his mind is fogged, but his body seems to find ways across the town automatically. In a couple of hours he finds himself leaning against the door of their flat, looking down on a small bag of tangerines, which he brought for some reason. He questions himself, what was his idea behind that. “Hey, I know, you are down, in pain and you can't leave a bed. And it was cruel to say all the things, I have, but I needed you to not give up on this mission, and I only had this one shot to make things right. Anyway, here are some tangerines, please don't hate me”? Nik winces of a mere thought of such an explanation.

He leaves a bag on the kitchen counter and heads to the bedroom. It is silent there, rare sunbeams are swaying and flickering along the faded wallpaper above the bed. She scribbles something frantically in a little notebook and doesn't even look at him, until he gets down to meet her gaze. “We have two weeks. I've convinced Price, we can pull this through.” She knows what Nikolai was hoping to hear and doesn't make him wait for it, but he doesn't leave right after he got the news. “Prosti*.” He reaches out to her, but his hand freezes as she answers. “You did the right thing, so no hard feelings, Nik.” She smiles, but her gaze is hollow, lacking of any emotion. He wishes, she instead slapped him in the face, shouted at him or at least told him go fuck himself for being like that to her - at this point anything would be better than her empty eyes and fake smile.

For a first couple of days, she is working on a plan constantly, not leaving her bed. Nikolai practically has to drag notebooks, printed charts and maps out of her hands every night just to make her sleep a bit. He still helped her here and there with bandages, cooked for her, and just tried to always be somewhere around in case she needed him. But little by little her strength returns, and the movements cause less and less pain. 

One evening, Nik is sitting in the living room, half asleep to the blaring of the TV, when he hears shuffling footsteps behind. She comes in  holding notes in one hand and a pencil in the other and sits down on the couch next to him. Nikolai immediately reaches for the remote control to turn off the TV, but she stops him. "Let it mumble. I don't understand the language anyway, so it doesn't distract me." She looks over her notes for a while, then sets them down on the coffee table and tries to concentrate on a show instead, constantly shifting her weight, trying to get into a position where her back wouldn't touch the back of the couch. He watches her for a while, and then in one motion he puts her legs over his knees, so she leans sideways on the back of the couch. “Better?” She smiles at his question. ”This way I'm going to break my neck trying to enjoy what ever is going on there.” Nik chuckles, extending one arm and cradling her lightly, so that she could rest her head on his shoulder and watch the show in peace. “Stop acting like a piece of furniture. You are not a cushion to rest on.” Her voice is sleepy. “I was aiming more for acting like a gentleman. And your head doesn't turn me into a pillow.” They keep watching the TV in silence for some time, but then Nik starts explaining her, what is going on and why the audience is laughing. At some point, he looks down and meets her gaze. “Thank you, Nik.” She didn't look away and, noticing his puzzled expression, added. “For saving my useless ass.”

“Still trying to be a gentleman here, little one… So you are not dragging me into commenting on your ass.” 

***

She towers over the table, dragging fingers down a map and cursing under her breath. Line after line, she draws invisible ornaments along the streets. But it seems that every path keeps failing her. Nikolai understands, it's not safe to interrupt her right now, but he can't stand another minute of her desperation. “Show me where are we stuck.” He leans down to the table besides her. “It's not that I practically have to orchestrate a street riot here. It's that there are just the two of us.” She irritably touches the tip of her pencil to several intersections. "I'm barely moving, I won't have time to intercept them in these places. And you can't do it alone." Nick covers his face with hands and hisses. "C`mere." He takes her hand and leads her to a chair. "Sit down. And please listen to me." She limply sinks to the edge of the seat, Nikolai leans closer. “Price sent me to help you, not because of my pretty eyes. He said you needed a fixer, remember? Well, great news: you have a one now. I’ll get you anything you need, arrange any meeting. You need people? I'll gather you a fucking army. Need arms? Name it and I'll have it wrapped in a gift paper for you by the morning. Need to burn this nest of filth? I'll get you matches. Now stop thinking about what we are lacking and use me for gods’ sake!” His deep, rumbling voice sounds menacing: it's high time she found a place for him in this operation. “Tell me then, fixer…” A small, vague smile appears on her lips. “Are you up for a ride?’

***

This is yet one of the strangest scoutings, he has ever taken part in. Their car creeps in silence along the central streets past dark windows. The city has long fallen asleep, and at this late hour the two of them do not meet anyone on the streets. She occasionally taps his shoulder - a sign to stop the car. Then she exits on the street, claps her hands loudly for a few times and stands there still, listening to the echoes. But it didn't bother Nikolai, since every time she returned with a satisfied grin. When they are back at home, curiosity gets the better of him. “What sort of gig are you planning?” “A little song for my fixer to sing along. Don't worry, I'll take you on a soundcheck.”

Days and nights of preparation followed. They hardly saw each other: Nikolai gathered reliable people, prepared locations, and she kept working on her putting together mechanisms, mixing substances and correcting their plan.

***

Nik wakes her up in the middle of the night before the operation. They silently drink coffee in the kitchen, get ready and leave for the improvised intel center, he arranged for her to lead the operation from. 

“Nikolai, this hardly fits the definition of a secluded place, away from prying eyes.” She looks around the spacious, empty room, with a panoramic view of the city center. In other circumstances, she wouldn't be bothered by working in an unfinished skyscraper in the center of the city. But this building is literally in full view of everybody. “Saved the best seat for you. Besides, you know what they say: the best place to hide something is in plain sight.” Nik helps her to arrange remote controls and checks the room once more. Despite still having troubles moving around much and suffering from pains, she looks surprisingly content, walking along a huge window. 

“I'm leaving you my jacket in case it gets too cold.” She didn't answer, so Nikolai comes closer. “You ok?” Something disturbingly jolly flickers deep in her eyes. Something unkind. Something sadly familiar to him after many battles. “I'm fine. Go, we have a nest to burn there.” “Just promise me to sit here and don't get reckless, ok? I want to come here, when it's all over and find you right in this room, safe and sound” He lightly pats her shoulder, trying to get any answer.

“I'll be safe and sound, that's a promise.”

***

From the outside, it might look like a pure chaos: angry shouts, tossed stones flying forward, an irritated crowd growing every minute. But a few people in the crowd know that what is happening on the street isn't the result of a combination of random circumstances. This is a trap set by the hands of an invisible hunter, snares placed in the path of prey. An invitation and a dare.

Nikolai isn't sure that the 'crackers' would have the desired effect, and gradually rounds the perimeter of the crowd like a shepherd. But when the first one goes off behind him with a deafening crack, his first instinct, overtaking common sense, is to duck. A series of loud pops really resemble the echo of shots. His people in the crowd, knowing that this was a signal for them, hurry, dragging the crowd forward with them. Every time the crowd reaches a new intersection, another batch of crackers drives people in the right direction. The first rumors that civilians were being shot at spread almost instantly. Nik couldn't help but grin at the ideal timing and effect her little sound traps had on the crowd. In a way, this really feels like a song. A quite sinister one, but it still reminded him, they are together in this.

When the crowd rounds up the building, that she and Nik called ‘the nest’ - he knows exactly what is she doing right now. Forehead pressed to a cold window, fingers clasping around her elbow in anticipation, eyes glued to an outline of the building, he is standing in front of. He can swear on his life, he almost feels her pulse picking up, her lips forming silent pleads. “Come on, come on…”

Her planing almost didn't leave him any job until now. Angry crowds gathered around the fence, blocked surrounding streets, raised the tension to the point of no return. All Nik and his people are left to do is just to wait patiently, till civilians distract the security. But once it actually happens, he feels his heart rushing. He can finally break in, take place in the game, she tinkered so intricately. Nikolai takes one last look at the skyscraper darkening in the distance and smiles as he passes the fence and disappears into the shadows of the building.

“Eto dlya tebya. Smotri, moya khoroshaya.*”

***

She doesn't celebrate too early, when some footsteps echo in the back of the stairwell. It could be him, could be anyone else as well. While the sound is still far, she sits down on a chair facing the only entrance to the room and cocks the trigger. Her position is open, vulnerable - Price would kill her by himself if he has ever seen her like that. But at the end of this day, that seemed to last forever, she is powerless: her limbs are trembling, her mind is fogged. She was clearly not in the right condition to lead the operation.

Nikolai finds her clutching his jacket to her chest with one hand and holding the entrance to the room at gunpoint with the other. At this point she can't even sit straight and he feels sorry. He stops and lifts both hands.

“Eto ya, ne perezhivai.*” His voice makes her loudly exhale and slowly lower the gun. She bends over and buries her face in the heavy folds of his jacket for a few moments. His hand covers her back, careful enough to not touch the blisters formed on the scorched skin.

Nik gives her time to calm down and doesn't speak till she lifts her face once again to him. “Are we happy?” To have him back in one piece can already be counted as a success, but she needs to make sure, the mission is not failed this time.

“Oh, you don't have an idea…” Nikolai smiles enigmatically and hands her a folder. "You closed that jar of spiders and shook it so well that they began to rip off each other's heads. The main gift for the captain is on the way, and this is a small bonus. We'll give it to him personally."

She quickly looks through the folder and her eyes slowly widen. “Nik… Did you read it? Do you know what it means?..”

“M-hhm, the plot is fun, but overall style… not to my liking.” He says this with a completely deadpan face and sinks to the floor by her chair, quietly relieved that she, albeit silently, is laughing at his joke. “Anyway,” he adds, “What do you think: a red or a golden one?”

“W-what?” She stops reading and looks back at him, as he pulls out two dusty cheap plastic ribbons tied in bows: one red and the other - golden. “Wanna bring Price that fancy gift? Might as well pack it.” She looks from the ribbons, he put in her free hand, to his face. “Considering the specifics of our team… red would be somewhat vulgar, Nikolai.” He closes eyes, leans his forehead against her knee and his shoulders shake with muttered laughter. “You have a point there, little one. God, it reminded me of an old dumb joke, they've told us back when I've worked in Copenhagen.” Nik cuts himself off, understanding, that she probably won't find it as funny, but she encourages him to go on. “Ok, so, a tourist from the USA walks down the street in Moscow. He looks around and doesn't notice a huge hole right on his path. Naturally, he falls down. A policeman pulls him out and the tourist asks why they didn’t surround the pit with a red tape, or at least didn’t mark it with little flags. The policeman answers him: ‘Comrade, when did you cross the border of the Soviet Union - did you see those freaking huge red flags?’”

For some time she just sits there and watches him, but after a few very long moments, she leans down, cups his face smeared with dust and speaks deeply serious. “This is the worst joke, please never tell it to anybody.” And before he finds the right words to answer her - she busts out laughing, hugging him tightly. There is so much in her embrace: highly-strung nerves, hidden pain and sorrow, untold fears - so many things, one shouldn't contain in an embrace. But Nik doesn't mind it at all as long as it makes her burden bearable: in fact, he is happy to be there for her.

*Prosti. (Russian) - Forgive me, please.

*Eto dlya tebya. Smotri, moya khoroshaya. (Russian) - This is for you. Look, my dear.

*Eto ya, ne perezhivai. (Russian) - Don't worry, it's me.

[theecourtsjester]

Two excerpts from a short story I wrote for class last semester :3

From Coming Clean, a story about two queer high school students falling for each other, except one of them is religiously close minded and homophobic so he ruins it </3

1.

His house was quite nice. Thanks to his mom’s new boyfriend, he told me. It wasn’t too far from my place, so I took a mental note that if I needed to escape, I wouldn’t have far to go. I was slightly unnerved to find that he and I were the only two there that evening, he said his family was out of town for some festival or something. Still, he made me climb up the side of the house to get into his bedroom window, saying he never uses the front door.

“This house pisses me off. I stay in my room. Won’t go out unless I have to,” He explained. I didn’t understand but didn’t want to question him.

His room was filthy. Clothes strewn about, stains in the carpet, old food containers, and the whole place smelled strongly of alcohol and something rank. I cringed as I sat down hesitantly on his bed. It was the only spot free of filth, at least that I could see. I tried not to think about what he might have done in that bed.

“Before we get back to work, you gotta check this out,” Jory said, crouching down to rummage under his bed. After a few seconds he stood up quick with a pop in his knees, grinning ear to ear. He flashed several vinyl records, throwing all onto the bed except one. That one, he placed gingerly onto a record player I didn’t recognize at first under all the trash piled on top of it. He mumbled something about cleaning it up later, kicking it under the bed.

“I’m really not interested in listening to any of that, Jory. It’s not my style,” I said.

“‘Your style’ being shitty Jesus music and uh…Beethoven. Da Vinci, or something. You need some culture, Matthew.”

“Da Vinci was a painter.”

“Who cares? You’re listening to this. If you don’t I’m not helping anymore.”

“Wouldn’t change much.”

“Fuck off.”

He started the music, way too loud at first. I had to beg him to turn it down, which he did, but only after rolling his eyes and calling me a B.I.T.C.H. As for the music, it was nothing I’d ever heard before. Much louder, more abrasive, less controlled than I was used to. I guess I could see why he thought my taste was “boring” if that was what he liked.

“You like it, don’t you?” Jory asked, looking down at me with a smug grin. I didn’t respond, just started taking out my books and got to work.

“You like it. I can tell.”

I didn’t know how to tell him I did, so I didn’t. The rest of the night, we worked and Jory played me more music. I didn’t want to admit I was having a great time, but I found myself staying hours later than I planned, just taking it all in. At some point, we weren’t even working anymore, just relaxing and talking. I didn’t even realize it was getting dark out. Jory told me a lot about the music he was playing. Band names and history and album inspirations and everything in between. It was the most excited I’d seen him in the few months since he moved here. I didn’t want to, but I enjoyed seeing him light up like that. Happiness looked so good on him.

“I ever tell you I wanna start a band?” Jory asked as I was packing up my stuff to leave.

“I don’t think so,” I said.

“It’s a pipe dream. It’ll never happen, but this. This is the kinda music I wanna make. It’s everything to me, dude. I’d give anything to be in a studio producing shit like this. Up on stage, blowing crowds heads off with my art. That’s my dream.”

“That’s pretty cool,” I said, hiding my smile.

“But now that I've turned you on to the good stuff, you'll be my first fan,” He tossed me a funny glance. “Or my first bandmate.”

I shook my head furiously. “Absolutely not.”

I heard Jory chuckle behind me, but I didn't look. I grabbed the last of my things and started heading for the door.

“Hold up, I got something for you,” He produced a few CDs, some with cases, some not. “Take these. All the shit I just played for you. I never use ‘em so you can have ‘em.”

I shook my head, mumbling something about not being interested, but he only rolled his eyes, turned me around and shoved them into my backpack. I tried to protest, but he simply pushed me over to his window and sent me on my way. He offered to walk me home since it had gotten late, but I shut that down quite sternly. My heart raced the whole way home. I had been tainted, allowing these things to be placed into my bag. I tossed them into a dumpster somewhere on the way home. No way I’d ever play those on my own.

2.

I confided in Jory about my sister, my doubts. He didn’t take it well. I knew he wouldn’t. But he was the only one I could talk to about it.

“I keep telling you they’re fucking brainwashing you, dude,” he said. “They’re afraid of what’s different and wanna beat it out of you. You know damn well there ain’t nothing wrong with you. Except maybe that shitty ‘God’ you like so much.”

“Stop talking like that.”

“Yeah, that’s what I thought.”

“What?”

“You let all your Jesus freak friends talk however they want about me and what I do, never speak a word in my defense. But the minute I have something to say about them or your fucking faith, it’s all ‘don’t talk like that,’ ‘you don’t understand,’ ‘that’s disrespectful’. Where’s my respect? Where’s my understanding? Hm?”

I couldn’t find an answer. He continued on.

“I try so hard to be here for you. I put up with so much of your bullshit, I listen to you, I try to help you, knowing damn well the second you leave, you pretend I don’t fucking exist. Why? Because I love you.”

“You know I love you too,” I hated seeing him upset, and I hated being the reason, but he was being unfair.

“Yeah, that’s rich. I can’t tell, Matt. I really can’t.”

I picked at my fingers, which had already been bleeding for a bit.

“Yeah, don’t say shit. If you ignore me you won’t have to deal with me, right? Go suck your God’s dick then, since you care so much more about him, huh?”

I left without saying anything. Jory mumbled more curses under his breath as I fumbled out of his window, but I had stopped listening. I had made up my mind before I even went to see him, he only confirmed my decision. It was only about five o’clock when I left him, so I took a long walk around town before heading back home. My parents would be back around seven.

Thanks for reading, if you did :3

[the-masked-reviewer]

Fight Club (1999) Review

Potential spoilers ahead...

This is movie wasn't bad or good, just…perfectly mediocre, making its seemingly large cultural impact so confusing. The theme of this movie being the need to feel something (essentially everything the narrator talks about in the opening) is fairly relatable and if it had actually focused on that I can see how it would've gotten the impact it did. But seeing as how the characters actually end up just using fighting and bombs to "feel" something, I don't. I see why the level of violence and anonymity would resonate with certain crowds, though I don't think it full explains why everyone recommends this movie should be watched, even if they say at least once. As for what i like to call the "mind fuck moment", they actually approached it very well and revealing that the narrator and Tyler were the same person through flashbacks and fade in/outs was (very good). While the mind fuck moment does start as an out-of-left-field twist, the hints were there, notably the narrator's skill at beating himself up.

All of the blatant homoeroticism throughout the entire movie distracts and takes away from the dark and gritty vibes they were obviously going for. And once you start accounting for the mind fuck, it just get weirder and more confusing. You can try to explain the tension by saying its all in his mind and it's tension between the sides of himself, but that doesn't explain why it's that gay. It's just so gay. It somehow gets gayer when he starts sleeping with Marla, which doesn't make any sense. On top of that, everything with Marla feels like a subplot that doesn't actually add to the story and is only there to add some sex to appeal to the audience. Overall the scenes with Marla just felt very out of place.

As for the effect on pop culture, I really don't understand it. I can see how some of the factors and bits would independently lead to something that has the potential to get as far as this did. The action, the theme of emptiness, cults, all independently done or combined in a different way make sense but these things in this movie just add up to something that seems like its target audience is a demographic that doesn't even exist. Usually when these themes are used, regret/hesitation is either nowhere to be seen or the whole point, but here the narrator spends the entire movie trying to stop Tyler from acting on what he has created. It feels like even after the mind fuck, the movie is fighting itself on what its own theme is, which may have been the point but only comes across as a confused story. It's built up as this dark, gritty movie, and based on its building blocks, it should have been, but it never really sells the mood. It was, however, sort of interesting and slightly confusing, but certainly not dark or gritty. Even when they kill Bob, which had the potential to be a huge moment for the vibe, it felt glossed over, undermining anything that they had managed to convey. Now, I admit I watched this movie as an entirely different demographic and time from the original target audience, and that's sure to have impacted my understanding and experience. But the only thing I can see that would explain the kind of impact this movie had was the mystery aspect; the mind fuck moment, the "don't talk about fight club", etc., all lend themselves perfectly to giving the movie the perfect way to create never ending suspicion and intrigue all because you aren't supposed to talk about it.

[doomednarrative]

16, 17, 22, 32, 35, 41, and 43 for amaris 🫶

16. Got any tattoos? What’s the story behind them?

Amaris has few Watcher related tattoos! One is a near whole sleeve of a skull design on his left arm and another skull related circular design on his lower left leg that stretches up over his knee. I imagine he got those in personal celebration when he officially became a Watcher as a way to signal to others tbh, he takes his title very seriously and worked hard for it ~

He's also got two others, one is a hexagonal design over his right clavical which is the most recent one he got before the game's timeline starts. The other is a stellated dodecahedron (yes I looked up what the fuck that thing was lmao) on his hand which he just got because it looked cool and no one was there to tell him no lol

17. How’d Rook get those scars?

He's got a particularly deep one on his inner right arm, scratches on his back and the scratches on his face that came from the War of the Banners, which is what got him kicked out of the Necropolis. He doesn't regret what he did for a second but he does find it funny he had to explain to the companions that No, the eye scars are not what fucked his eye up, he's had cataracts in his right eye since he was born. Any other small scars he has are all from various fuck ups while still in Watcher training seeing as he can be kinda clumsy from the bad vision at times.

(He eventually gets one on his stomach During the game timeline as well as a gift from Hezenkoss while she's taunting him about his relationship with Emmrich. If she wasn't already as dead as she can be he'd kill her again for that one.)

22. Most embarrassing memory as a teenager:

Nothing super big tbh but most likely the time he walked straight into a door coming into one of his classes where everyone could see him back when he used to let his hair down because he couldn't see it from his bad side. He started tying it up after that and moved his bangs over permanently to avoid doing it again.

32. How would a desire demon tempt Rook?

Some sort of promise involving gaining familial love. He won't admit it without a Lot of prodding or unless severely drunk but the fact he's likely never going to know his parents and grew up without them does fuck him up a lot.

35. Ultimate comfort food meal:

Potato leek soup...he's really simple and also sticks to the typical Watcher vegetarian diet so any veggie based soups are usually his go to. Tho more recently I think Lucanis introduced him to gnocchi which has also become a favorite ~

41. What’s on their nightstand?

An Elven lantern gifted to him by Bellara after one of their many long talks about elvish culture

Stack of books he's borrowing from Emmrich

Small misshapen skull carved from wood, courtesy of Amaris asking Davrin to try teaching him to carve and realizing he doesn't quite have the dexterity for it. Still makes for a decent decoration either way

43. Is Rook the type to gossip?

He's the type to discreetly listen in on people but not to share anything he might overhear. People did that to him enough in Nevarra that he's not overly fond of it.

[starry-blue-echoes]

So I was thinking about Peanut Gallery and

Oh my god Part 5 is going to be insane and I thought of a way to make it even more so

So Giorno had always known his family was a little off. Sure there was the Stand thing, but there was...... something else

He noticed it first when he was growing him in the Kujo household. How Jotaro was always so familiar with him and knew what he liked even before he did, how he’d have quiet conversations with their grandpa on the phone, how he’d slowly instruct him on how to use a Stand despite the fact that Giorno didn’t seem to have one yet, among other things

Joseph wasn’t any better, however Giorno didn’t notice until he was older and his family explained to him how his grandfather had a precognitive Stand and sometimes got what he knows and what he’s Seen mixed up……. but there was more to it. This was something that didn't feel like it could be explained away by a simple look into the future

And Giorno’s a smart kid. Not only does he have the cunning we saw from Golden Wind, but he also has Joseph and Jotaro teaching him everything they know about observation and planning. It wasn’t difficult for Giorno to realize that something was going to happen in the future, specifically something including him and for some reason his brother and grandfather wouldn’t tell him

But he stays quiet about it. He listens and gathers as much information as he can. He commits everything Jotaro and Josuke teach him to memory and writes down every vague mildly ominous thing Joseph mentions

Josuke remembering and acting differently is really just the final nail in the coffin for him to start planning to act

fast forward a year and suddenly Josuke and Jotaro are bringing up a possible student exchange trip to Italy. How it would be interesting and educational, how it could be used to show Giorno that part of his mother's and grandmother's culture, that he'd be able to make friends, reason after reason that Giorno knows is a front for something. At this point he'd gathered enough information about his future that it had to do with Italy, the mafia, Gold, and a handful of names that Joseph let slip. With all this knowledge and everything he's learned from his family, Giorno feels pretty prepared

fast forward nearly another year. Giorno's been doing some poking around but has mostly opted to let whatever future comes for him happen. After all, most people fulfill their future on the path to avoid it, so sitting and waiting is the best way to avoid doing anything stupid on accident

and things definitely end up happening. He gets cornered by a man named Luca, fights another named Bucciarati (which funnily enough was one of the names Joseph mentioned) and finds himself right in the middle of the mafia

what he didn't predict was Jotaro and Josuke "popping by for a visit" to check in on him. Giorno really doesn't want to risk them getting hurt, so he pretends things are completely normal. They believe him, think that the events which led to his joining the mafia the first time didn't happen, and decide to do some poking around in other places

and Giorno thought he'd be able to keep it secret. That it would be a simple charade to keep up and that he could simply pretend things were normal until his family left

Giorno did not predict that he wouldn't be returning home that night or for the rest of the week

so while he's doing all that with Trish and the Gang, Jotaro and Josuke realize Giorno's misdirection and start hauling ass after them

I'll admit, I'm not completely sure at which point the two sides finally meet up, but it's going to scare the shit out of the Bucci Gang, lead to some very out of context explanations about the family as a whole and what they've dealt with, and when being asked about it Jotaro just responds with a deadpan "because this family's fucking cursed, that's why"

[hellzyeahwebwielingessays]

@poke-maniac

I am making this post because it was too frustrating replying in the comments section of the original post.

“ I said that money was a mean to make his company more successful as he himself admits, not just for power's sake.”

Yes, but I wonder what making his company more successful would do to the amount of power he wields. Could it be that it would generate MORE power for him??????????????

“Which is more or less confirmed in sinister war, but since you ignore everything that happens after post OMD as if nothing was canon anymore, I guess you don't see it as a valid argument.”

It’s more than just that I discount it for being post-OMD. From what you have described of Sinister War I do not see how this goes against anything I have said. Norman wanted to money to make his company more successful. But in doing this he makes himself more powerful.

The priority is ALWAYS power. In fact, few people who are rich assholes as you put it are in it for the sake of money alone, but predominantly for the POWER that money grants them.

But even if we argue that there those who really are JUST in it for the money, Norman isn’t one of them as he literally told us that in ASM #40:

Oh look, Norman EXPLICTELY saying that he needed to become wealthy because that was the only way he could become POWERFUL!

“We shouldn't apply real life psychology to fictional people,”

This is, simply put, one of the most astronomically bad takes I have ever had the misfortune of reading.

There is so much to unpack with this, but let’s just get down to the basics. If we aren’t going to apply real life psychology to fictional people what the fuck does the term ‘believable character’ even mean. How are they believable if not in terms of who they are, what they think, what they feel, how they act is psychologically realistic. Because that is what psychology boils down to ‘what is happening inside of a human being to make them behave the way they behave’.

Second of all, there is a GIGANTIC overlap between the mental muscles and psychologists and good writers flex for the very obvious reason that both jobs entail getting inside people’s heads. Its just that for writers those people happen to be fictional.

The proof in the pudding of this is Carl Jung, perhaps the second most famous psychologist behind Freud himself, and indeed was at a time viewed by Freud as his heir in the field of psychology. Jung’s works are massive and complicated to explain but one of the things he often brought up was the connection between psychology and  mythology/fairy tales/folklore.

“Like Freud, the psychologist Carl Jung also took myths seriously. Jung believed that myths and dreams were expressions of the collective unconscious, in that they express core ideas that are part of the human species as a whole. In other words, myths express wisdom that has been encoded in all humans, perhaps by means of evolution or through some spiritual process. For Jungians, this common origin in the collective unconscious explains why myths from societies at the opposite ends of the earth can be strikingly similar. ”-

This school of thought is eventually what led literature professor Joseph Campbell to study myths from various cultures and write his landmark book ‘The Hero with a Thousand Faces’. Here is a wikipedia excerpt about the book:

“The book includes a discussion of "the hero's journey" by using the Freudian concepts popular in the 1940s and 1950s. Campbell's theory incorporates a mixture of Jungian archetypes, unconscious forces, and Arnold van Gennep's structuring of rites of passage rituals to provide some illumination.[4] ”-

So psychology and storytelling are inherently intertwined and ALWAYS have been.

Third of all, there is no end of examples of critically acclaimed works of fiction that DO apply real life psychology to fictional people. Breaking Bad is one seasons long epic exploring the realistic psychological change of Walter White into a drug kingpin.

The Sopranos stemmed from creator David Chase’s psychological struggles with his mother and the therapy he went through to try and deal with it. Not only was it applying psychological realism to these fictional gangsters (and their families) but it went so far as to have a psychologist as a main character and make her sessions with Tony Soprano integral to the plot/character exploration of Tony himself.

And, just in case you were trying to say ‘fictional comic book people’, Batman’s villains are regarded as the best villains in mainstream comic book history in large part because because of their psychological complexities. There is literally a podcast hosted by a real life psychologist where they review and apply psychological realism to every episode of Batman the Animated Series:

The fact that she was able to do that at all speaks to how clearly the writers WERE applying real life psychology when writing Batman the Animated Series, the most transparent example being ‘Mad Love’, the origin of Harley Quinn. not only was Harley a psychologist herself, but her origin story stemmed directly fro co-creator Paul Dini's experiences with therapy and includes one of your so called 'Freuduan excuses' for why Harley is the way she is:

"Paul Dini: I’m no stranger to therapy. I was spending some time in therapy and was in my head a lot around that time. Bruce and I were discussing her origin one day over lunch, because I had been approached by DC to do a special issue of the comic, and we were talking about what if there was some sort of surprise to her origin? What if she’s not just a hench girl? We came up with the idea that she had been a doctor at Arkham Asylum and the Joker had gotten into her head and worked her into being his follower. … Then we thought, what if Harley’s in the role of the long-suffering girlfriend?

There was also an element of the fans who write to a prisoner who committed a terrible crime and say, “I understand you… I see the good in you,” and sometimes develop a relationship."

Bill Mantlo literally name dropped a psychological term during one of his 1980s Spider-Man stories. They got the term wrong, but the desire to use it at all when it wasn’t necessary ever so slightly hints that comic book writers frequently DO try to apply psychological realism to these fictional people.

Iconic Iron Man writer/prolific Spider-Man writer/co-creator of Venom and Carnage David Michelinie featured a psychologist character in at least two of his Spider-Man stories and used his insights as a way for Spider-Man to defeat both Doc Ock and Venom.

Bruce Banner/the Hulk is a character who hinges upon psychological realism. The entire premise of the character is that he has disassociative identity disorder and that the famous green savage Hulk everyone knows is an expression of his traumatised inner child throwing a gamma fuelled temper tantrum.

Peter David, who has written MANY Spider-Man stories including the iconic ‘Death of Jean DeWolff’, literally wrote an issue that took place inside Bruce Banner’s mind and where his fragmented identity (Bruce banner, Green Hulk, Grey Hulk) is made whole; an issue outright called 'Honey I Shrunk the Hulk' (as in head shrink).

(Oh look, an abusive father who hit Bruce. Guess the Hulk's origin doesn't make sense and is shit now too).

PAD’s Hulk yarn wasn’t the only Marvel story in the 1990s that literally dives into the head of a fictional person (i.e. the most blatant example of trying to apply psychological realism to them). There was also two stories that did exactly that with symbiotic serial killer Carnage:

One of those characters was Dr Ashley Kafka, a psychologist supporting character introduced for Spider-Man stories.

Hmmm…why would Spider-Man comics introduce a psychologist as a supporting character? Well, there could be various uses for a character like that but perhaps one of them might be to offer realistic psychological insights into these fictional people. Fictional people like Venom.

Or Vermin.

Or the Chameleon.

Hey, who created Ashley Kafka anyway?

It was prolific comic book writer J.M. DeMatteis. I wonder why he was so prolific, I mean what sort of stories has he done over at DC?

Oh…a story that acts as a psychological exploration of the Joker and his relationship to Batman. Fun fact, this story was originally rejects by DC because it was too similar to the Killing Joke…because it was also a psychological exploration of the Joker and his relationship to Batman.

Over at Marvel though, other than creating Ashley Kafka, what did J.M. DeMatteis write?

Oh, that’s right….

And...

And...

And...

He wrote many of the stories we’ve been talking about this whole time. He was the guy who retconned the origin of Norman and Harry Osborn and explored Norman’s childhood in the first place.

Now it is a sad reality that there isn’t a single direct quote from DeMatteis proving he did in fact try to apply psychological realism when writing fictional people…

"We write about the things that obsess us. The themes in a writer’s work are the themes of a writer’s life. The Big Theme that has always obsessed me is the search for meaning, for personal, and cosmic, identity. Who are we? Why are we here? What’s the meaning of it all? Exploring those ideas, from both a psychological and spiritual perspective, is the driving force behind many of my stories, whether they’re more personal projects like Moonshadow or more popular ones like Spider-Man."

"I enjoy reading books about psychology and spirituality, books that explore the shadowed caverns of our psyches and the luminous castles of our souls."  

"All the clever plotting in the world won’t help if it’s not grounded in psychologically real, relatable, characters."

"Peter Parker is one of the most psychologically and emotionally real characters in the history of comics"

"Harry and Peter are both very complex people, which meant that while the superhero action played out there was lots of room for psychological and emotional exploration."

…there are MULTIPLE direct quotes proving exactly that.

So YES we categorically should apply real life psychology to fictional people!

“ especially that nothing suggests in canon that his [Norman Osborn’s] dad was beating him to "feel powe[rful]”

I’ve said before and I will say it again, that is EXACTLY what is suggested by Spec Annual 1994 and Revenge of the Green Goblin.

Norman's Dad loses the business and lashes at his son but this had NOTHING to do with him feeling powerless?

What do you think it means when someone feels powerless?

What do you think it means when someone of the old school tries to reaffirm that they are still 'a man'?

It is about power!

“All that's textually said is that he was lashing out on his family, in rage like many people irl when they lose everything.”

Yes but why would someone IRL lash out when they lose everything.

*gasp!*

You don’t possibly think they do that because losing everything makes them feel powerless and bullying someone else in turn makes them feel powerful, do you????????????? Feeling powerful couldn’t possibly be the root cause of why anyone bullies anyone else ever could it????????????????????????????????????????

Its almost like in textually saying he was lashing out because he lost everything it made him feel powerful or something?

Oh and by the way, ever so slightly undermined your own argument there. “We shouldn't apply real life psychology to fictional people,” vs. “…was lashing out on his family, in rage like many people irl when they lose everything.”

Which is it?

(not to mention if we aren’t supposed to apply real life psychology to fictional people why were you doing exactly that with your avatar examples?)

“Yeah the amnesia part never made any sense to begin with. It's said that the formula made him worse yet it doesn't seem to affect "amnesic" Norman all that much.  Maybe it does? Because we don't see him all that much during his amnesia periods.”

We see PLENTY of Norman when he has amnesia.

So no the formula does not affect norman when he has amnesia.

But an idea slightly suggested in ASM #40 and then eventually confirmed in Revenge of the Green goblin was that the formula made norman worse because in giving him powers it acted as proof he was superior to everyone else, in other words it sent him on a huge ego trip.

You know what would be interesting? If this Norman Osborn guy who is on a big ego/power trip formed a rivalry with a superhero who began his career on a big ego trip before being humbled. Especially if that hero’s defining philosophy was ‘with great power there must also come great responsibility…

“It honestly looks like a cheap excuse to keep him from telling the truth more than anything”

And as originally written by Stan, it was exactly that. It was taboo for a villain to know the hero’s identity back in the 1960s, or at least for them to go on living with that knowledge. Later stories however addressed this.

“But anyway, it just makes weird that his amnesia would make him a completely different guy if he was the same ashole during this specific time period he remembers (before Harry high school years).”

You haven’t been listening to me at all. You have never once addressed what I have said on this subject.

But I will repeat it again:

WE ARE THE PRODUCT OF OUR MEMORIES! IF YOU CHANGE THE MEMORIES YOU CHANGE THE PERSON!

You want a quick fictional example of this? The Arnie movie Total Recall.

In other words, the ONLY logical explanation for Norman becoming nice is because he DIDN’T just forget his memories after he became the Goblin. He forgot MORE than just that. Which is what happens with real life amnesia. You don’t just forget a set time period.

Yes the narrative has Spider-Man claim it is just everything after the accident that turned him into the Goblin, but how the fuck does Spider-Man know that for sure?

What we have is an objective flashback showing us exactly what Norman was like before the accident, we have objective on the page evidence of what he was like after the accident and we have objective on the page evidence of what he was like post amnesia. Post-accident is basically a bigger jerk of who he was pre-accident. Post-amensia is at odds with both versions.

The ONLY explanation that makes sense is that he didn’t simply forget the last few years, he forgot more than that. he forgot whatever life experiences shaped him into a bad person, or at least he couldn’t remember them clearly. Perhaps he could remember events but not the feelings associated with them.

This syncs up with how IRL amnesia works and reconciles everything, whether you look at the stories in the 1960s on their own or look beyond that decade.

“One could argue that he gradually became more and more neglectful. If Harry is just in denial as he can't see faults in his dad's parenting why did he spot a difference then? If his dad was acting the same as he always did, why would he be only in denial over how his dad acted prior to accident?”

Yeah MAYBE he did become more and more neglectful, but there is nothing on page suggesting that. We just know he WAS neglectful.

But alright, the idea that from Harry’s POV there was a time when things were better but got way worse before the accident, that could fit with the original story.

You know what else could fit just as well? That Harry is in denial. Because he wants/needs to believe at some point he and his Dad had a positive relationship when they actually never did.

Denial doesn’t work on the basis that it is 100% consistent all of the time. Norman was MUCH worse after the accident and Harry was also older and less impressionable and that change occurred within the last few years of his life circa ASM #39. All those factors combined make it entirely possible that he found it harder to deny that his Dad had changed. He’d gone from neglecting him and palming him off to almost entirely isolating himself and become more outspokenly verbally abusive and belittling.

Both were bad situations, but one was much worse.

Oh and be careful, because you almost sound like you are trying to apply real life psychology to counter my points. I thought we weren’t supposed to do that with fictional people?

“Why only complain about his dad's recent outbursts? It's clear that his dad is acting differently towards him. They had some good time together (despite his dad's obssesion over work) before the accident then his behavior towards Harry changed.”

No they didn’t. That’s the point of the story. They DIDN’T have good times together, but by the end of ASM #40 they now hopefully can have good times together.

The ASM #40 flashbacks are the deal breaker on all this. These aren’t simply flashbacks from Norman or Harry’s POV, these are from the omniscient POV as what they are depicting is not in line with what Norman is claiming. And they are not in line with what Harry was claiming in ASm #39 either.

Harry was NOT having a good time ever in those flashbacks and Norman was NOT being a good father.

Thing simply got WORSE after the accident.

Why is it so hard for you to buy into the idea that Harry is in denial?

Your approach is ‘Harry made this claim in a piece of dialogue therefore it MUST be completely true’. Even though the very next issue disproves it. Norman even says ‘I tried to be a pal to Harry’, he uses that exact word ‘pal’. And we see from those flashbacks that, no, he was not being a pal to Harry. He was being a shitty father. He was neglecting him, not talking to him, not engaging him or spending time with him.

So Norman is in denial and that was the point of the scene. BUT Harry, who has his DNA, couldn’t POSSIBLY be in denial also? There simply MUST be these magical phantom scenes we coincidentally never got to see where in fact they were BFFs?

Why is that more believable than ‘both father and son are mentally messed up’.

“Also bad person =/= bad father.”

That lacks nuance. You can be a good parent but in other ways a bad person, that is true.

But if you are a bad parent (specifically abusive, neglectful, putting yourself ahead of your child) you are as a matter of fact a bad person. There is nothing more important than raising a child.

“I'm just arguing about his parenting, not his morality,”

In this situation they are one and the same thing.

The things that make Norman a bad person are in turn what led to him being a bad father. He doesn’t have the ability to be a good father because he is a bad person.

During the Stan run, Norman pre-accident was also a bad parent and a bad person but to a lesser degree. That’s all there is to it. he railroaded his partner. He stole his innovations. He was after money and power. He neglected his son and priotised his pursuit of power ahead of his son’s wellbeing.

That is a BAD person, it just isn’t a total fucking monster which is what the retcons developed him into.

“we don't see much of him during his amnesia period to conclude that he was an all around a good person, just that he was a better dad.”

*pinches bridge of nose*

During his amnesia period (and excluding the period where he was in the process of remembering he was the Goblin) was Norman neglecting his son? No. Was he railroading his business partners? No. Was he stealing their inventions? No.

Oh, he WASN’T doing the things we saw him doing in the pre-flashbacks. But you know what he WAS doing? Being nice to his son. Spending time with his son. Making his son happy.

Hmmmm…its almost as if the things ASM #40 showed us about how pre-accident Norman was a bad person were either absent or directly the opposite with amnesiac Norman.

“But yeah, you're right, this amnesia plot device makes no sense no matter how you look at it but to me it looks like the implications is that his personality was reset before his accident. But to each their own, I guess .”

A story can imply one thing but show another or contradict itself. What is actually happening is more important than implications.

“I agree that Norman abusive background explains why he treats Harry so horribly as it was textually explained, as well as why he's so comfortable with his own darkness, his toxic masculinity but it doesn't explain as well why he became so obsessed with restoring his family's name, wealth, having social power.”

BECAUSE HIS DAD LOST THAT!

Do I actually need to explain that children are heavily influenced by their parents? That they subconsciously look to their parents as role models, that they seek their approval, that how their parents treats them shapes who they grow up to be?

If Norman’s Dad LOST the family’s prestige and was obviously upset about it and that in turn led to him hurting Norman OF COURSE Norman would want to restore it. He would have learned that prestige was important.  Thus in restoring on some subcionsious level he’d:

Be making his father proud

Proving himself BETTER than the man who was his physical superior

Avoiding becoming like his father who he saw broken down and rendered weak by losing the company

Making himself powerful and therefore not weak, not like his father who was rendered weak/the helpless weak little boy his father bullied

“It's not about real life psychology, it's all about WRITING.”

THOSE AMOUNT TO THE SAME THING!

You can’t BE a good character writing without applying real life psychology! Because to be a good character writer you NEED to make your characters psychologically convincing, otherwise nobody would buy into them.

See above when I disproved your bullshit about not applying psychology to fiction.

You don’t NEED to have a psychology degree to write good characters but you do NEED to be able to get inside a fictional person’s head and render them as believable. And that would entail making them psychologically realistic.

William Shakespeare never studied psychology. He literally couldn’t have. But he was nevertheless able to write psychologically convincing characters that we CAN successfully apply real life psychology to.

Because writers and psychologists have this gigantic overlap in their respective fields, namely, getting inside people’s heads!

“Writing a proper Freudian excuse that doesn't require ton of meta analysis, real life psychology, conjecture.”

THERE IS NO CONJECTURE! The narrative SPELLS this all out explictely!

“And I'm not denying that it might be one of the factors, but it unlike his abuse of his own son, it's not used explain why he became so fixated on restoring his family's name,”

If Norman’s Dad abused him because the family business was fucked there would obviously be an inherent link between restoring the family business and the abuse he suffered.

This isn’t a Freudian excuse, it is basic bitch literary analysis. High schoolers could grasp this.

Norman didn’t want to be weak as he was when his dad hurt him. Norman didn’t want to be weak as his father was upon losing the business. His dad hurt him because he was upset about losing the business.

Therefore, in hitting Norman, in abusing him, it acted as a powerful motivator later in life to restore the family business.

It. Is. All. There.

“obtaining social power (not just physical) expanding the Osborn legacy”

You need to understand this, not just for the sake of this argument nor for your future reading of fiction, but just plain old navigating through life itself.

Power is power.

If you are made to feel physically powerless you 100% could go on to seek social power.

If a boss makes someone feel powerless at work they could leave work and make themselves feel sexually powerful by having sex with a hooker who they ask to call them ‘boss’ in the bedroom.

If your business is failing and your money is running out so you feel financially powerless and are losing social power there is a strong possibility that you’d hit your own child to feel powerful! Just as Norman’s Dad did.

You keep belligerently REJECTING the idea that there can be a link between social power and physical power but that is the truth of the matter. Not only have I known this for years through, you know, common sense, not only have I read up about this, but just to make 100% certain I am not wrong on this I asked someone I know personally who is a professional psychologist. She confirmed exactly what I’ve been saying.

Norman’s situation is entirely realistic. Which again, is no surprise, since it was written by a DeMatteis who was heavily into psychology and was himself friends with a professional psychologist who he based Ashley Kafka upon.

Oh, but I forgot, we don’t apply IRL psychology to fictional people right? But…if we aren’t doing that…why are YOU insisting that there can be no link between social and physical power??????????????????????????

And furthermore, expanding the Osborn legacy? Yeah, powerful people have wanted to insure they have a legacy to live on after they die since time began. That hasn’t even got anything to do with abuse or psychology. That is just how most animals are wired. We want our offspring to survive us and thrive. For Norman that meant his son and company would be strong

“, why he's a psychopath who loves killing people when we he doesn't get any benefit from it (like this guard's wife) .”

*groans*

He likes killing people because it is an exercise of his power. He is a power addict. He wants more and more power and wants to use it. No one takes power and DOESN’T use it.

Killing people makes him feel powerful.

He wants to feel that way because as a child he was made to feel powerless and saw his dad lose his power.

It is as simple as that.

And you seem to be ASKING for a psychological explanation there? I thought we don’t apply that to fictional people?

Why are you asking why someone is a PSYCHOpath but reject the PSYCHOlogical explanations I’ve been providing for it?

“It doesn't automatically explain IT ALL.”

It literally does. You are just being blind to that reality.

“It's not expanded on.”

There were 3 stories exploring it across nearly 10 years.

That expands upon it pretty well.

“It's not used to explain HOW it shaped his view on power, how it shaped his ruthless and psychopathic, personality (well unless you claim it's unborn ).”

I’m so exhausted at this point. It HAS been used to explain it. It explained it blindingly obviously. I have repeated it multiple times in this post let alone all the other ones I have made during this argument.

I have to ask now if you are trolling or if you are honestly just this blind?

And, again….asking for HOW something shaped someone’s view on power, HOW it shaped their personality? Gosh…that sounds like you are asking for a psychological  explanation…but one where we cannot apply real life psychology apparently.

“I just wished that this backstory was more expanded on to show HOW it shaped him”

You literally admitted you haven’t read all the stories I mentioned so how can you possibly complain about all that.

You are complaining that something wasn’t explained when

It was explained IN Revenge of the Green Goblin

RotGG itself was an expansion of Spec Annual 1994, which you said you hadn’t read

“Like, there's so much things going on with him and the authors did the minimum they could,”

They wrote THREE stories exploring Norman and Harry’s childhoods and how those shaped them!

Roger Stern.

J.M. DeMatteis.

Paul Jenkins

Howard Mackie.

FOUR people between 1993-2000 wrote THREE different stories exploring this subject and this is the ‘minimum they could’?

Fucking Hell, what more do you want?

“as if we as readers are automatically supposed to connect all dots just from the knowledge alone that his dad beat him up and that it made him feel weak, so viewed toxic masculinity as "strength" and that it made him accept his own darkness.”

The. Story. Literally. Spells. This. Out!

Go. Read. The. Above. Pages!

But also, I, as a TEN YEAR OLD, understood this from Revenge of the Green Goblin alone. I didn’t even need the Child Within or Spec Annual 1994 to GET it!

It was REALLY obvious.

I’m not saying it should have been subtle…but also it was absolutely NEVER subtle.

To say readers are supposed to automatically connect the dots is saying ‘I have REALLY limited reading comprehension skills and need to be spoon-fed info.’

“Just how are we supposed to expand it to explain his psychopathy, his obsession with restoring his family's legacy which is primary motivation for most of what he does that's not connected to Peter (like the Gathering of five).”

See above. I’ve explained how it is all connected. Better yet read the stories. Though I doubt in this case it will make much difference.

“ This is made even more confusing with Sinister war”

A post-OMD story making things confusing? The shock I have. Its almost as if there was a reason I cut off with 2007

“Not to mention, that most of his much more prevalent roles happen post OMD compared to pre OMD which you entirely reject.”

No they don’t.

His most prevalent roles are his roles as a Spider-Man villain. Most of his appearances as a Spider-Man villain are PRE-OMD to my knowledge.

“Is his backstory still supposed to explain why he acts the way he does post OMD even though you said it made him a different character,”

It is irrelevant to this argument because I was never talking from a post-OMD POV to begin with.

But frankly, if post-OMD Spider-Man was well written (which it isn’t) yes his backstory SHOULD explain whatever he does. Or, more accurately, whatever he does should be written to be consistent with his established backstory in the first place.

The major reason I reject post-OMD is precisely because whether it is Norman, Harry, Venom, Doc Ock, Black Cat, J. Jonah Jameson, Aunt May, Mary Jane or Peter Parker himself, the stories are rarely consistent with their pre-OMD characterisations, whether that’s their backstories or simply older stories they appeared in. Peter doesn’t act like Peter. Mary Jane doesn’t act like Mary Jane. Harry doesn’t act like Harry. And Norman doesn’t act like Norman.

Peter wouldn’t become a paparazzi photographer.

Mary Jane would never break up with him because aunt anna’s life was endangered.

Jameson would never accept Peter upon learning he is Spider-Man.

Black Cat would never want Peter to be her fuck buddy and nothing more.

Doc Ock would never try to rape mary jane.

Harry would never be blasé about not remembering his own son Normie.

Aunt may would never blame peter for abandoning her the night uncle ben died.

These are merely one example for the above characters but you get my point.

If the characters aren’t behaving the way they should be in the context of the situation they functionally are not the characters anymore. And since the characters are the entire point of why we read Spider-Man in the first place, why the fuck should you, me, or anyone factor them into our analysis of those characters? Especially since, last I checked, OMD established that we are literally in a different timeline altogether, one where Peter and MJ never got married, where MJ was never pregnant but somehow, magically, despite this making 0 sense, every 1987-2007 Spider-Man story happened exactly the same way.

“even though it gave another explanation that I won't spoil you (read Sinister war) ?”

In other words Sinister War is bullshit. The new story is obliged to fit with the older one. In other words, if Sinister war has contradicted the origin and the origin doesn’t explain what he does in sinister war, it means sinister war is at fault not the other way around.

Norman in Sinister War SHOULD have been written in sync with his established origin.

“Also Otto was evil even before his ex fiancee died,”

Yes he was, but he WASN’T evil before they broke up. They broke up, he later became Doc Ock and later still she died. I never said otherwise. I said his MOTHER died.

“it only solidified his rivalry with Spider man as he wanted to prove that he's superior foe than Green Goblin.”

Not as originally written he wasn’t. His ex-fiance’s death was originally just AIDs, the idea that Norman infected her with AIDs was a retcon made 20 years later. As originally conceived Norman and Otto had never met face to face before Norman returned in 1996.

But that’s a big tangent that has nothing to do with my point, which was that in one issue it was established that Doc Ock became a villain due to MULTIPLE factors shaping him, not just one thing.

You never addressed my point.

“(Freudian excuse is basically a backstory that's supposed to explain how it shaped a villainous character. Don't know if it's an academic term but It's the term used by tv tropes)”

Then I am complete confusion.

You want an explanation for why Norman is the way he is…but ANY explanation by definition would be a Freudian excuse which is bad????????

But also we cannot use real life psychology?

The only thing I can conclude is you want a reason for Norman being evil that doesn’t involve his Dad hitting him even though in this specific case HOW that shaped him to be evil and twisted his world view is very clearly laid out.

It is just YOU who can’t see it.

But I am not surprised by this if you are also so insistent that we shouldn’t apply real life psychology to fictional characters. Frankly, that alone is a fucking joke of a take

"Norman hating spider man for his amnesia was never expanded on before or after this one throwaway line , that's what I'm saying. His hatred in other comics is never tied to it, directly or indirectly"

That.

Doesn't.

MATTER!

Him saying it ONCE is enough for us to confirm that it IS one of the reasons he hates Spider-Man. And it wasn't even a throwaway line either!

It was him explaining WHY he hates Spider-Man? In a story that was planned to be important, though no one knew HOW important it would go on to become. That is NOT a throwaway line. YOU think it is a throaway line but it is not actually a throwaway line.

You know what line was also only uttered ONCE for over 15 years worth of Spider-Man comic books?

"With Great Power there must also come Great Responsibility"

The most famous line of piece of writing in Spider-Man history, the line that is the defining philosophy of Spider-Man and his universe, was mentioned ONCE at the end of his first appearance in 1962 and was never repeated again until the late 1970s.

So, was THAT just a throwaway line?

Should we discount that as a motivation for Peter Parker?

Why does a line need to be REPEATED or EXPANDED upon to be relevant?

If it was said the once and so long as it doesn't contradict anything else, then it COUNTS. Deal with it.