#that happened in the episode. No real analysis just this happened then this happened and I like it because of this.

[hobbitkiller]

It’s not a perspective. Cait and Vi didn’t have different goals in that scene. Also, not every scene that sets up joining forces has to literally spell out that’s the intent of the scene. I honestly don’t get your insistence that everything be spelled out for you like you’re a child.

I’m also clearly going to have to explain foreshadowing to you. Foreshadowing is a literary and story telling device that is used to plant an idea in the reader’s/viewer’s mind for later. Introducing the idea that Piltover and Zaun had joined forces before was placing that idea in the viewer’s head.

You are very much reaching with your analysis of Ambessa just being there to raise tensions. You seem to not grasp how stories develop. In interesting, multifaceted stories like Arcane characters don’t show up with a moist ache to twirl indicating evil intent. That doesn’t mean it’s bad storytelling for them to become the major villain. That’s good storytelling, actually. That said, someone familiar with tropes and story structure could easily predict that she was going to become the new big problem.

Again, you keep acting like every bit of setup had to be super explicit in spelling out the two sides were going to fight together and that, if it didn’t it means that wasn’t the plan. That’s not how writing works. You’re supposed to be able to put all of the pieces together.

That said, they pretty explicitly showed where the use of hextech could lead without nuance in the second episode, so acting like that wasn’t set up as a major threat frankly feels intellectually dishonest. Sure, at the time we maybe thought Heimerdinger was being an alarmist, but everything that happened with hextech from that point forward drove the plot more toward that point he warned about. Even when they spell things out for you as clearly as they can, you don’t want to see it.

As for agency, season two was very much the “find out” part of “fuck around.” What happened with Viktor was a result of his dangerous experiments with hextech. If he hadn’t done that, Jayce wouldn’t have been able to use the hex core to heal him. Him and Jayce going their separate ways was the consequence of Jayce weaponizing hextech. The anomaly was the consequence of Piltover overusing hextech. Ambessa’s ability to take over was the consequence of Jinx blowing up the council. Season two was where characters had to deal with the consequences of the choices they made in season one.

None of these consequences were forced. Yes, they had big fantasy/Sci Fi fallout, but that’s because the show is Sci Fi/fantasy. That tends to be what happens in the genre. You could easily replace the implications and fallout of hextech with nuclear power or similar technical advancements that created massive problems in the real world, and an imperial power like the US, or Noxus in the show, taking advantage of social and political division in a smaller country to try to control its land and resources is a common refrain throughout history.

You’re right, the arcane isn’t the main focus. The main focus also isn’t the political strife. Both are devices used to tell the story of the characters. The show is not about Piltover versus Zaun. The show is about how that conflict has shaped the characters. Feel free to read my other posts on the subject.

Not sure wha t your Warwick point is. Yes, he is there to retraumatize Vi in the end. Yes, his agency is taken away. That would be the tragedy right there.

As for Mel continuing the cycle, that’s up for interpretation, I guess. I think the cycle she’s specifically breaking there is the one where “Medarda’s only take.” She ended the cycle where her family raises itself up by taking from others.

Your argument against the acceleration rune doesn’t make sense because the device that could only be made with it was Ekko’s which was, in fact, the difference. Pointing out how everything else is the same actually hurts your argument there.

Also, a big lipped alligator moment is something that comes completely out of nowhere and serves no purpose. Neither of those describe Viktor and Jayce. Do they have to explain the exact mechanics of what happened? Would stopping to go into some technobabble have made the show better? Because we always pay close attention to characters doing that in media right? We’re really in it for the made up technobabble.

Your desire for the show to end in a civil war makes it neither better writing nor what the show initially intended. You like to reference what actually happened in the Jayce Silco scene to try to say it wasn’t foreshadowing (again, because I can only assume you don’t know what foreshadowing is)? What did Jayce say would happen if they actually went to war with each other? Zaun would have been crushed. Yes, it would have been a blood bath on both sides, but a Piltover army with hextech and the Noxians would have either won or would have claimed victory and been dealing with insurgent attacks from Zaun for the foreseeable future.

There would be no reconciliation at all unless the show wanted to really abandon one of the ways it was most grounded, which is how violence and vengeance feed each other. There’s a reason why, after most revolutions and wars throughout history, the country is drawn into another war pretty quickly after. One conflict breeds another.

There’s a reason why regions like the Middle East are seemingly caught in endless cycles of violence—because people don’t generally forgive losing a war easily, because wars are costly in lives and resources, and because generational traumas and wrongs often come back to haunt us. Even if the war ended with a miraculous agreement on both sides to lay down arms, there will be people who lost family who will still want justice—to feel that their loved one’s death meant something.

If, however, people’s loved ones died fighting together, that’s a powerful reason to try to make a positive change. Because, again, people want the sacrifice to mean something. It supposedly partly why Britain and other European countries established services like the NHS after WWII. After living through the Blitz and the destruction, it made them want to create a better future.

You keep complaining that the show largely drops the class conflict story after episode four, and that would be a problem if that was what the show was about. However, given the show is about the characters and episodes five and six are mostly about bringing Jinx and Vi and Vi and Caitlyn back together, it made sense to narrow the focus back down to that family unit. The conflict is still there in the background—it’s in the tragedy of Vander, Silco, and Felicia. It’s in the fact that Noxus and Piltover feel entitled to take Vanwick, but it’s not the focus.

I’m honestly not a huge fan of episode seven, because I’m not a huge fan of TimeBomb, but that was an interesting take on what else could have helped bridge the divide between Piltover and Zaun—the tragic loss of a child and the loss of the technology that further drove Piltover and Zaun. The episode is about the class conflict in the sense that it introduces a world mostly without it, showing that, just like it’s possible to have “good” versions of Jinx/Powder, it’s also possible to have a works where Piltover and Zaun have peace. That was the lesson Ekko took away from his AU adventure, to not give up on a better world—that things aren’t “too far gone.”

I also find your point about Jayce not talking to Viktor weird…you do get that he wasn’t really in his right mind there, right? We also can’t say for sure what would have happened if he hadn’t shot him. Maybe the fallout would have been worse. Maybe Viktor would have made more followers so that there were even more dolls when it came to a head. But, again, Jayce wasn’t in the mental state to have a rational discussion right then.

The conflict does come back in the last two episodes because it is somewhat a question of whether or not Zaun will help—which would be Piltover suffering the consequences of its actions. Now, you’re right, arguably the question would be what choice did they have in the end, but that’s again honestly true to many real life conflicts. You’re stuck working with the lesser of two evils.

As I said, what would have been completely unrealistic would have been if everyone hugged and kissed and had a huge barbecue together with fireworks after the Noxians left. We know from history that old prejudices often return once the battle is over—take how Black soldiers were treated in the US after…I was going to say WWII, but really every American war.

I also honestly can’t help other people deciding Sevika being on the council is supposed to be a resolution instead of a first step. It was clearly not framed as a resolution with everyone sharing mistrusting looks and her looking, frankly, uncomfortable. If people decide to be obtuse and not read the overt visual language of the show, that’s a them problem.

And guess what? The show isn’t about class conflict. Yes, it’s an essential element, a major theme, and vital context. It is not what the show is about. Just like unchecked scientific progress is a theme, but not what the show is about.

You bring up what Silco said about the cycle continuing. My point is not about how all violence will always and forever be no more; it’s about how these specific characters are breaking their cycles. Again, this show is about the characters first, which is why it makes sense that they didn’t solve class inequality in a year. It’s about these characters and their stories.

Really, though, much of this conversation has strayed from the original point, which is that this was the direction that was set up in the first season. You may not like it. You may have wanted it to go another way. But it was, in fact, set up. The memory Heimer has of the horrible fallout from Arcane is essentially what happened. They deliberately planted the seed (which, again, is the purpose of foreshadowing—not explicitly stating what’s going to happen next, that’s just exposition) that the thing that originally brought the cities together was a common enemy. They had this conversation one episode after Ambessa, a war monger from an imperialist nation, was introduced.

Even if the show did what you wanted and went with a civil war, there’s a very good chance it would have developed into Piltover and Zaun versus Noxus anyway. Cait/Jayce would be trying to stop the war on Piltover’s side, but Ambessa would refuse to give up the fight and leave with nothing. This would have caused Noxus to turn on Piltover, and then it would have been up to Zaun to either help or let them take each other out first and then fight the survivors. Maybe that would have been better. I personally would be asking, “Hey, what happened to the existential threat posed by hextech that was also being built up in the first season?” But maybe you’re fine with dropping the whole “arcane” bit of arcane.

“What happened to rebel Vi? Season 2 destroyed her character!”

“What happened to rebel Vi” is that Vander took her to the bridge where her parents died in his revolution and asked her what she was willing to lose. Then she meets Cait who is gentle and kind while still being tough and it makes her rethink how she sees topside. When Jinx tells her she changed too, that’s what she’s talking about.

I’m sorry if you thought Vi was going to be a topside-hating revolutionary in Season 2, but that’s clearly not where her character arc was going. Remember how she forced her way between Ekko and Cait? It seemed very straightforward that was the role her character was taking on.

I feel similar about people who act like the show was betraying its premise because it ended with reconciliation/Zaun and Piltover working together. Again, the fact that two of the most important relationships were between characters from both sides and that they made a point of talking about Zaun and Piltover first coming together against a common enemy was a pretty clear indicator that was the plan.

Now, I get being annoyed that that was what they chose to do. You don’t have to love the creative decisions of media, just like media doesn’t have to compromise its creative direction to satisfy you. But not liking that they went that direction is not the same as the show having bad writing or engaging in character assassination.

Everything Vi did in season 2 was very much in character with how she changed and who she became throughout Season 1. Hell, she used enforcers and Hextech to raid Shimmer facilities before Commander Kiramman ever threw on a beret. So, yes, actually wearing the uniform was a huge and complicated decision that she was definitely not happy about, but it also fell in line with what she had been doing.

There’s meat for another post at some point about the three different Zaun/enforcer partnerships we see in the show: Vander/Greyson, Silco/Marcus, and Cait/Vi; but I’m not going to go into that now.

TLDR: “Rebel Vi” who wants to fight all of topside hasn’t existed since the end of the second episode of the show.

Editing to add that Vi doesn’t see attacking Chem Barons as attacking Zaun; she’s taking down the people who are destroying Zaun.

[disneydatass]

So this is a little essay analysis for the Caitlyn haters but also just mainly for myself since I’m insane for them & I thought there was a major overlooked parallel of the big fight scene that is not talked about enough

If you recall earlier in this episode Cait is not sure if Vi will be able to go through with catching her sister and Vi reassures Cait that her sister is gone and that she will do whatever needs to be done! Fast fwd a little to the promise scene that we all know very well…Vi begging Cait not to change and Cait promising she won’t after kissing her. And the running joke that .02 seconds later she says eff that lol but before the fight scene VI TELLS CAITLYN TO TAKE THE SHOT. “If you have the shot take it” and CAITLYN STOPS VI AND PULLS HER BACK!

She gives Vi another out AGAIN! A double check to make sure she is really ok with the possibility of having to kill jinx and Vi once again tells her she’s ready!

Now here’s where we get to the insane writing of it all. Cait’s first real shot at Jinx is when she blows off her trigger finger while Jinx was on top of Vi

The same exact finger that was used to trigger the weapon that killed her mother

The same exact finger that was used to trigger the literal bazooka Jinx was firing with to kill Vi!

A lot of fans really like to gloss over the fact that Jinx was seriously trying to harm Vi and Cait was not going to let that happen!

Now here’s where a lot of the hate for Cait started to take off. The shooting at Isha (and jinx) but Cait wasn’t shooting at isha she was again shooting at her trigger finger!

Isha has a gun to VI’s literal head and was about to pull the trigger and Cait being the excellent shot that she is, yet again protected Vi!

Once the gun was knocked out of Isha’s hand, Isha has nothing else to do but use her body as a shield to protect Jinx. To which Caitlyn yells at both Isha and Vi multiple times to move out of the way so she can solely target jinx and stop the madness.

Vi yells at Cait saying “she’s just a child what if you missed?!”

Caitlyn “I’m an excellent shot” Kiramman wouldn’t have missed if Vi had not blocked the shot!

Which is why Caitlyn is so beyond frustrated with Vi “you stopped me.”

This was a punch in the gut to Cait. Vi just stopped her from putting an end the person that hurt the two women she cares about the most in this world.

And the final kicker was Vi telling Cait that she was acting just like Jinx

Which was beautifully illustrated by also showing the close up of Cait’s fingers pulling the trigger at jinx!

I obviously don’t agree with what Cait said to Vi out of anger nor do I think the punch to Vi was warranted but I do understand it! And I just think this whole parallel was written and animated far better and with more nuance than the simplified ‘Cait is a privileged bitch that turned evil out of one loss’ hate antis like to throw around

[fictionadventurer]

It sounds like Joe and Ken focused on telling stories, stories that being stories focused on the world and characters they knew. While Pete's were more focused on delivering a message with story flavored wrapping.

This is very much the case, but the difference seems to go even deeper than that, to a fundamental difference in worldviews that affect how they approach story.

Episodes written by Joe Fallon and Ken Scarborough respect children as people. Children have been shaped by their experiences and have unique personalities. Children are curious and have brains--they are driven to explore new things and can draw conclusions from what they see and do. Children are already people who deserve respect, and like all of us, they're growing into different people as they learn new things and have more experiences. The child characters can thus be the drivers of their own stories and come to learn lessons for themselves. The child audience can relate to those characters, be drawn into the story, and learn what it's trying to teach without having every detail explicitly spelled out.

Episodes written by Peter Hirsch seem to approach children as people-in-training. They might have one or two personality traits, but instead of coming from and interacting with other elements of their background, they're just pasted on, like a sticker you can put on your Generic Child Prototype. These blank-slate children need to have knowledge poured into them so they can become Properly Educated Adults. So in his episodes, these child characters will go through their story with a question, and the adults--the real people--will tell them the information in great detail so these characters--and the watching audience--can go off into the world knowing what the writer has decided they need to know.

In Joe and Ken's episodes, flaws are funny, and can create funny conflicts that will teach the children better ways to approach problems. In Pete's episodes, flaws are horrible things that need to be pointed out, labeled, and sanded away, so these children can grow up into the perfect model of what a Good Adult should be. The first approach is engaging, and celebrates diversity of personality in a community, while the other becomes bland in the interests of shaping all the members of a community into the desired mold.

Comparing the two approaches provides a shockingly thorough lesson in how one should and should not approach writing and education. Story and character and message are all intertwined. Trying to force the message onto the story and characters makes for something bland and generic and unrealistic. Letting the characters shape the story and letting the story bring out the message makes for something much more unique, organic, engaging, and real. And yes, maybe I've come to this conclusion by spending far too much time thinking way too deeply about a bunch of shows for elementary-aged chlidren, but that doesn't mean it's not fascinating to see how, even within the same show, an writer's personality and approach to the audience can make such a vast difference in the quality of a story.

[morganmnemonic]

Having just come out of season 4, with people repeatedly saying "don't wait too long" and variations thereof to both generate a general atmosphere of creeping dread and highlight the parallel between martin's arc and basira's in which they both work with the enemy for the sake of their favorite person for just long enough to doom the world, I have to wonder what the hell they meant with this

like. what are you trying to say here?

[zeb-z]

People complaining about Star Wars shows being too slow, too much filler, like ok why don’t you just not watch? Log off Twitter?

If you can’t see any of the importance of the episodes that don’t have firefights and explosions every five fucking seconds, and complain there’s no story when the plot flies right over your head, that’s not everyone else’s problem. Yes the beginning of Andor takes a while to swing into things, and there’s many reasons for it. I frankly don’t even understand the complaints around the Bad Batch because each episode is far more obvious in its intents and still very exciting. How did any of you watch The Clone Wars?????

No one cares that you think the episodes not involving direct conflict with the Empire are boring. You’re boring. Gain some sort of common sense and think critically about the storytelling before you complain that there is none :)

[leothil]

people think tim posting that video means bucktommy endgame, i just think much like when he posted eddieana and bucktaylor on his FB page back in S4 he likes all the ships he creates because they help tell the story he's telling but we all know how much he LOVES Buddie. Also apparently the only reason he posted that vid is cause some BT fan kept on sending it to him so he probably was like OMG fine I'll post something, leave me alone.

People can think whatever they want, I just wish they were less brash about it lmao. I stand by my earlier opinion of him wanting to show that the gamble he took by making an established popular main character come out has paid off, and people are invested in the story.

Also every time I see BT I still read it as bucktaylor.

[obsidiannebula]

Deep into the ninja war in Naruto rn and I've said this a lot while watching it, but I cannot imagine having to watch this as it aired. We've been watching a couple episodes a day and it still feels like this war has been going on fooooorevvvvveeerrrr. Y'all really watched this a little bit at a time over the course of several years? Canonically it takes place over the course of like two days. How did y'all live like that

[bemusedlybespectacled]

proposing what I'm going to call Gaylor's Razor, which is: never explain normal shit as being part of a secret message that can only be decoded by over-analysis.

"These Taylor Swift lyrics are actually coded messages saying that she's a lesbian and is forced to stay in the closet! Any lyrics that are clearly about being attracted to a man are just to throw us off the scent!" Sometimes people, like Taylor Swift, are straight and write about being straight, because they are straight.

"The fourth series of Sherlock was deliberately bad because it was actually a coded message to us fans that there is a secret fourth episode that will make Johnlock canon and will actually be good!" Sometimes writers (even experienced writers who are normally good at their jobs) will write something that's not good, because no one is perfect. They're not going to waste everyone's time and money and energy creating something terrible on purpose as part of a grand master plan.

"Tessa Virtue and Scott Moir, the Canadian Olympic ice dancers, are secretly married (with kids)! Their public relationships with people who are not each other and them repeatedly saying 'we dated as kids and now we're just friends' are just to hide the truth! Which they need to hide for some reason! Their relationship is obvious just from their physical chemistry when competing! JUST LOOK AT THIS TWO SECOND CLIP OF HIM BLINKING AT HER!" It seems counterproductive to put all that thought into hiding a relationship that doesn't need to be hidden but then also telegraph that same relationship in front of millions of people through planned choreography.

"But BB, what about times that people really are speaking in code or hiding something due to outside influences?"

If it requires huge leaps in logic, like adding all the letters in a sentence together and dividing by seventeen and that number matches the binary sequence for the color yellow so YELLOW MUST BE SIGNIFICANT, it's not a secret code.

If it requires focusing on teeny tiny details but discards huge ones, like analyzing someone's micro-expressions but handwaving away what the person is actually saying out loud with their mouth, or focusing on one specific line instead of the entire scene or song or whatever, it's not a secret code.

If both supporting and contradictory evidence are used to come to the same conclusion (ex: when Taylor says something that I interpret as gay, that means she's gay, and when she says something that I interpret as straight, that still means she's gay and just hiding it), it's not a secret code.

Trying to apply fandom meta analysis techniques to real life is a really good way of fall into conspiratorial thinking that can be easily exploited. You can totally try to predict what's going to happen in a story or choose to interpret a scene in a specific way; you can't do that in real life with real people. That way lies the kind of nonsense that leads to shit like "this image of pizza on a children's toy is actually subliminal messaging by The Cabal™ that proves that Pizzagate is real."

[lullabyforbears]

I think another factor that really wasn't really addressed in the episode was that Applejack didn't just come on like a hammer because that's how she always is. She was very hesitant to do this in the first place and had to be flattered like mad, talk herself into it and help out Applebloom before she could even think about being candid about her fashion opinions, and was taking all her cues off Rarity. Like it was Rarity who was affirming her behavior right up until the point of major disaster, and building her up to the point of undeserved hubris. Like, it's not Applejack being a bad person, it's her being naturally prone to pride and being emboldened by Rarity's nepotism and enabling, and when she was confronted about it she got frustrated because fashion is something she just doesn't understand and before she hit the point of "fashion is ridiculous." Like there were so many stops along the way where Applejack could have course corrected, or BEEN corrected but Rarity, who she trusts as a fashion authority, told her she was all good. Like? If it feels out of character, it's because it isn't common that she's ever encouraged to get that out of line, but she legit thought she was just doing what Rarity wanted her to do- critique the designs for practicality in her blunt no nonsense way, and heaven knows she feels being too eager to please is one of her big character flaws. We saw a kind of ugly side of Applejack in that episode, but it wasn't necessarily an out of character one given the kind of monsters chronic nepotism creates and her predisposition to getting full of herself if the right ponies flatter her.

The way the Brony fandom reacted to Applejack's behavior in Honest Apple will always astound me. So many people thought that she was grossly out of character for how she acted, as if we didn't have an episode 3 seasons prior where she had a whole musical number that was basically her telling Fluttershy "I don't care if you're the animal expert. We're gonna deal with the bats the way I wanna deal with them."

Stop The Bats was essentially "It's My Way or the Highway: The Song." You would think with how much people gushed over that musical number back in the day that they would pay attention to what the song was actually saying, and what that says about AJ's character.

But nah. Honest Apple was "character assassination." I remember people thought I was crazy when I said it was the best episode of Season 7, but I'll stand ten toes down on that. It's the best season 7 episode and the best AJ episode, period.

[drchucktingle]

One of my fav podcasts is doing an episode on you and I'm shaking my head because they're not real buckaroos and they don't understand that you write because love is real and everyone should have joy in their lives. They're just making jokes and I'm like "at least buckaroos embrace what makes us happy"

yes this is interesting thing that happens with my trot A LOT. i usually will repost a podcast or interview if someone does a nice talk on chuck, but there is STILL a large portion of folks who seem to have the irony poison pumping through their veins and cant come to terms with the fact that my work is sincere

you can pretty dang quickly tell if someone is laughing AT you or laughing WITH you. i have trotted onto interviews where i IMMEDIATELY know i am getting laughed at and honestly that is okay. i cant really blame them because i know the way the culture of irony swirls around us and swallows everything up, especially online. i also know that as i trot forward and break down walls of 'low brow' and 'high brow' art there will be resistance, ALL the good trots forward will face resistance.

HOWEVER it also has to be said that a lot of this is just plain old SUBCONSCIOUS BIAS (or maybe conscious bias sometimes) against queer people and neurodivergent people. if my work was straight and i followed the neurotypical template for art i would not be treated like this. honestly the most fascinating thing to me is that these otherwise kind, well-meaning or even politically left people are just publicly tearing apart someone for, if you really wanna get down too it, being bi and autistic. i think they would be HORRIFIED is someone pointed that out, and for some reason they cant see it

i think a lot of this has to do with people thinking i am not 'real'. it is much easier to treat a 'character' this way.

but it is fine. its the trot ive got, and if you think about it, even though these folks are resistant to take me seriously and with actual respect for my work, it is actually THEIR loss. a podcast episode where you make fun of my book titles for an hour is SO MUCH LESS INTERESTING than a podcast where you pull apart what im actually doing and the intention behind my work. any time a buckaroo dives into THAT part of it, their analysis resonates across this timeline. so really its the folks makin fun that are missing out

[avelera]

I’m curious, how much control do you think Viktor was in in season 2?

I have tried to analyze this but am honestly stumped. Because on one hand it is clearly his intentions and logic being used. Since the beginning he has been wanting to heal people afflicted in Zaun (while it was also to cure his illness I don’t doubt wanting to help those in need was a legitimate motivation). He does immediately go to heal people in Zaun and all the conclusions he jumps to through the season do seem perfectly reasonable for him. He was the type of person who didn’t even conceptualize in season one that something like the hexclaw could be used as a weapon. That and the hexcore showing that he was a pacifist to the point of it being a massive blind spot to danger. So it makes sense being shot by Jayce of all people while in his eyes he was healing people would cause him to go all glorious evolution mode as a natural progression of his arc.

On the other hand he definitely didn’t come back right. The show makes a point to show in season one that the hexcore has some level of physical control over him, and even when going to heal the shimmer addicts he is following Sky’s voice. The writers also confirmed that it indeed was not Sky and was the hexcore manifesting his guilt to push him towards to glorious evolution. And his emotions definitely seem to be muffled and unexpressive. I know this part is joked about a lot but honestly even the fact that he chokes Jayce is surprising because he is consistently characterized as a pacifist to the point of it being a fatal flaw. He doesn’t even commit an act of violence in a show filled with fight scenes until the second to last episode, let alone against Jayce of all people. I think the last thing season one Viktor would do is intentionally cause physical harm to someone, hence why it is only at the part where he is the farthest gone.

Basically if I had to guess I’d say it’s like 50/50 level of control, but you have written some great character analysis so I’m curious what your thoughts are as to how much of season two was Viktor and how much was the Hexcore

Honestly, Anon, I'm wrestling with this on almost a daily basis myself when I write fics. It's definitely not helped by the fact they avoided a lot of exposition in S2 in favor of pacing (the slower pace of S1 allowed for a lot more signposting and exposition of what was going on, I think somewhat to the detriment of S2) and the fact that we don't really get much of Viktor after he stops being the Machine Herald, because to my eyes that's the first time we see the real Viktor all season and it would be nice to get him to express some contrast with what came before (though of course it would ruin the pacing of a perfect moment).

I think you basically nailed all of the points of confusion. I've ever considered tracking all the points where his voice warps for clues, because I think there is something to be gleaned from how and when his voice distorts, but in what direction is also a curious question.

Was saying "affection" kept them together more or less than what Viktor would have said to Jayce? Would he on his own have said love? Or would he, in his infinite shyness, have not dared to mention emotion at all, because Viktor is an expert at pushing those closest to him away and hiding his own emotions? Was that the Hexcore trying to drag Jayce in closer by calling it affection, or push him away before it could gain strength by lowering Viktor saying "love" down to just saying "affection"?

On the other hand, during the Herald's villain monologue at the end in the Astral Plane, his voice is distorted for almost every line except, "This senseless waste," which does feel like a sincere Viktor line, perhaps the only one that is truly him that whole time, including when he said he was pleased to see Jayce, in that horrible mocking tone. Could that not be the Hexcore speaking there?

I'll offer what I think is happening:

In order to chart "What is Hexcore" vs. "What is Viktor" it's less useful to look at Viktor's motives than the Hexcore's.

The Hexore wanted to expand its influence. It wanted to become powerful enough to have its own army and to destroy the civilization around it as other versions of the Hexcore have done throughout history. I believe it reached those goals by posing them as things Viktor, on his own, would want to do like help the needy, thus hiding its ends inside of Viktor's motives.

Note too that people who have dosed up on Shimmer are more susceptible to its molding.

Hence we can assume that the Hexcore, in the guise of Sky, using Viktor's guilt about her and his own failures to help the undercity, guided Viktor down to the Shimmer victim encampment specifically.

Viktor is not a mystic. The most mystical thing he says in S1 is that the Arcane speaks through mages. But the Hexcore is a magical artifact. Something like the Hexcore also destroyed a civilization centuries ago, and the figure in Heimerdinger's memory looks like Viktor when he's cloaked.

So personally, I think we can ascribe any mysticism to the Hexcore's influence too. That means the Cult, for example. Also Viktor's, "You need not suffer anymore," and kind of making them all genuflect to him, feels very OOC and just plain wrong for Viktor.

Whereas Viktor in the Astral Plane feels like real Viktor. Even the fact that when we show his point of view out into the world he is himself in a field of stars, seeing the real world projected in front of him like Plato's Allegory of the Cave gives the impression of imprisonment, like he's looking out through the windows of his own eyes to a shrouded world he can no longer directly touch.

And note, for example, that Sky/the Hexcore doesn't want Viktor to heal Vander. That's all Viktor. I believe the reason is because it doesn't want to run out of energy too quickly.

Basically, I think the Hexcore is stringing Viktor along there as Sky, giving him a little terrarium of stars to play in, while using him as a vessel of assimilation under the guise of healing. These are on both sides, inner and outer, things that Viktor wants to do, so he's seduced. He doesn't fight it.

I also think at a certain point, the Hexcore Viktor gains enough power to be able to impact people who aren't dosed with Shimmer. I think this comes later though, which is why it's not interested in Jayce at first but it is interested in assimilating him later. At that point, again, those motives align with Viktor's own sincere desire to see Jayce again (maybe he's sick of all the hippies in the commune lol) and the Hexcore is happy to get rid of someone who could conceivably stop it.

But note, the Hexcore is still playing along with Viktor. It could forcibly assimilate Jayce, but Viktor wants Jayce to choose his side willingly, so it holds back. In part too because that disappointment is what fuels Viktor to give himself over the Hexcore's goals entirely and ask for Singed's treatment with Apex Shimmer. At that point, as the showrunner noted, it doesn't need the guise of Sky anymore, it doesn't need to string Viktor along anymore. He's bought into the idea of forcibly assimilating the world if he can't get Jayce to join willingly.

I also heard an interesting theory that I'd like to factor in: basically, until he gains access to the Anomaly, Viktor doesn't have the power to strip himself of the Hexcore's influence or overcome it. That's why there's no point in Jayce trying to get through to him sooner, it wouldn't do anything because Viktor would still be trapped in its web.

Once they have the Anomaly, Viktor as an ascended being can strip away the Hexcore's influence. And that's why I lamented that we don't get more of his thoughts in that scene. Because I think an interpretation can be made that the Machine Herald look is just the human form of the Hexcore, using Viktor as a vessel.

Once that outer shell explodes, it really is Viktor again, with all the power of the Anomaly and Jayce's rune at his disposal. Now he and Jayce can work together to reverse the damage, free all the trapped souls from the Hexcore's web, and save the day. But we see that only then Viktor is able to view his own actions as himself, and he's horrified. There I think we get Viktor's one true, sincere reaction to everything that has happened up to that point and confirm that, yes, while the Hexcore interwove its seduction through Viktor's motives, none of this is what Viktor wanted. The ultimate outcome was the Hexcore's goals.

Quick Doylist addition: I also think there's definitely a draft where it's all Viktor getting controlled, but the writers know that can be kind of boring. It's better when characters take action and make choices, rather than being controlled. So I think that's why they settled on a combination of "The Hexcore's end goals, but Viktor's underlying motivations being twisted to support them."

[innocet]

There’s a move that RTD has been doing recently that I don’t really have a Judgement on, like I can’t say if it’s Good or Bad, but it is FASCINATING to my specific dr who preoccupations

He is (selectively, only sometimes) bringing racism that has always been present in dr who into the diegesis. I first noticed it with the Toymaker; instead of being a racial caricature in the same way his ‘65 appearance was, the 2023 toymaker is a character who poorly appropriates the signifiers of real-world cultures as part of his style of Play. He’s not just an East Asian caricature non-diegetically played by a white man. He is, within the diegesis, a white man who intentionally disrespects earth cultures by imitating and parodying them. We only see him directly do this to white/western cultures (the German, French, American, and British accents he takes), but he’s clearly textually racist to characters of color in the episode.

Racism and racial stereotype are some of the Games the toymaker plays. They’re not erasing racist production/narrative decisions. They’re placing them in a new context.

“Dot and Bubble” is the same; it recontextualizes previous adventures with all-white casts, not by reimagining them as more diverse, but by making that lack of diversity diegetic. I’ve seen some point out that previous episodes had, unexamined in the narrative, few characters of color either as a critique of “Dot and Bubble”. How can RTD expect us to notice that the cast is all-white as something with narrative significance when we’ve seen the exact same not ten years ago portrayed as a completely normal state of affairs? But I think part of the specific narrative moves that this episode is doing is that we can also examine those past episodes through this same new context. That the white Doctor, and his white companions, were not forced to encounter the circumstances that made the situation they’re in all-white, and so they did not at all engage with them. This is not to say that these previous episodes were intentionally saying anything at all about racism; they were the product of racist writing and casting, and that can’t be changed or ignored. But fan analysis as a school of thought is often far more concerned with the watsonian than the doylist, and RTD is aware of this as someone who grew up in fandom. This provides a watsonian path to exploring the racism of the show’s history, without sugarcoating or ignoring it.

It’s worth noting when he doesn’t do this as well; he seems far more willing to engage diegetically with racism than ableism, for example. Davros does not get any sort of redemption or examination as one of the only wheelchair users we see in the vastness of time and space; instead, he is simply no longer a wheelchair user. I think we should be paying a lot more attention to what gets folded in narratively and what doesn’t because it seems very clear that RTD is intent on continuing doing this and it’s something I’m keeping my eye on. Again, I don’t know whether it’s Good or Bad that this is happening, but it sure as fuck is interesting

[brettanomycroft]

Sam fumbled Gwen’s Bonzo reveal… but he’d been primed to do so

I suspect that there's going to be a LOT of conversation around Sam after this episode, and since this episode was so good that I couldn't think of a meme or shitpost, I decided I'd throw my hat into the ring and do some character analysis instead. CW: Spoilers for The Magnus Protocol episode 18, "Solo Work" under the cut.

Episode 18 finally gave us the Sam and Gwen interaction I (and I think a lot of others) have been so desperate to finally see, and boy oh boy do I have Thoughts… none of which are new per se, but Sam’s reaction to Gwen dropping the Bonzo Bomb seems to have reinforced  the way I’ve been reading (and projecting in fanfiction oops) Sam, his personality, and his motivations.

Out of everyone new we’ve been introduced to so far, Sam has by far gotten the most explicit development and conversation around his personality. Even before episode 1, folks who participated in the ARG got a preview of our favorite baby shrimp’s personality through access to the child database spreadsheet that was, presumably, used to document the results of the experiments run on children participating in The Magnus Institute’s “gifted and talented program.” From this spreadsheet, we can gather that Baby Sam is logical, empathetic, works towards the benefit of others (prosocial), and fair… but also a rule follower and highly willing to follow the lead of an authority figure, even if it is in conflict with his personal views. The picture this information paints is an interesting one, but when taken in a vacuum leaves us with an impression of Sam as someone who is kind but lacking in backbone.

This idea of Sam as “kind but lacking in backbone” is further reinforced in canon, as Alice of multiple occasions rags on him for being “noodly” and “ickle fawn” and a “baby shrimp,” all seeming to highlight that Sam has the sort of helplessness about him typically ascribed to sopping wet kittens and baby birds. And I think that if we view Sam’s outburst when Gwen brings up Bonzo through this lens alone, it’s going to seem WAY out of character for him and a downright cruel response.

Now while I do believe that Sam is empathetic and fair and, sometimes, a little helpless, I’ve been inclined to believe from early on that much of Sam’s affable self-deprecation is a way to cover or soften what can be, at times, a tendency to be hard-headed, temperamental, a little manipulative, and petty (and I’m totally not just saying that as a people-pleaser-and-gifted-kid-in-recovery who has been projecting hard on Sam since Day 1). And it’s this second batch of personality traits, the ones that make Sam so real and interesting to me, that I think set up the disaster of a conversation between Sam and Gwen.

We have definitely seen hints of Sam’s hard-headedness and manipulative leanings in previous episodes: it comes out most often around Alice, showing his stubbornness in the form of refusing to give up his lines of questioning and curiosity about what is happening in the cases and at the OIAR; and revealing his willingness to manipulate a situation the form of subtly redirecting Alice’s focus away from prying into his crush on Celia and during the mocha incident (I have, of course, already explored Sam’s manipulative tendencies in my totally comprehensive shitpost).

And we’ve even been shown at times before episode 18 where Sam can be petty, his buzzed insistence that Alice try and keep things “professional” at work after his date with Celia being at the top of the list. The case headers filed for “Putting Down Roots” and “Pet Project” also suggest to me Sam’s ability to be stubborn and petty: in both instances, Alice and Gwen suggest a different classification than the one that Sam ultimately files. In the case of Gwen in “Pet Project,” she’s dismissive of him when he tries to ask if she’s all right.

While there’s no way to know for sure, I interpret this interaction as part of the reason why Sam ultimately disregarded Gwen’s suggestion for how to file the case—she shut him down and shut him out, and the petty part of his heart couldn’t resist ignoring her recommendation out of spite. This scene also begins to lay the foundations for Sam and Gwen’s interactions in episode 18 and, I suspect, the rest of the season.

So with all of this in mind, let’s look at episode 18. When Gwen emerges from Lena’s office, Alice has just finished shutting Sam down, again. Throughout most of this season, Sam has been desperate for some validation that the cases they are listening to are real, that whatever happened to him at The Magnus Institute was real, and that him pursuing this line of questioning and wanting to find answers isn’t a waste of his time. Alice has, of course, been not-so-gently nudging him away from this line of thinking for most of the season, while Gwen has been icing him out about it up until this point. Just about the only one who has given his questioning any air has been Celia who is, conveniently, not there. Even after Alice has her very own supernatural experience that is reaffirmed in the case Sam receives, she strongly pushes back on his idea that they should investigate and pursue this further. He understands why she doesn’t want to learn more, but it’s clear that he’s still frustrated at the end of the conversation.

Enter Gwen. Here, for the first time, it seems like she’s opening up about what is going on at the OIAR, and Sam is immediately hooked, even dropping his softer and sympathetic side when Alice tries to redirect with one of her classic barbs.

After being shut down time and time again, Sam is so eager for confirmation that there is more to all of this than meets the eye. And then Gwen says the B-word, and Sam loses it.

Sam is laughing here, but honestly? I think he’s angry, and his reaction is one of complete disbelief that Gwen would set him up like this just to, in his mind, take the piss out of him. He thinks that, at best, Gwen is having a breakdown and he’s once again being shut out or, at worst, Gwen is making a joke at his expense. Now, he’s used to being the butt of a joke thanks to being friends with Alice, but despite that we’ve never heard him call her an asshole the way he does Gwen. Temperamental and petty, turning around his hurt and anger over being stonewalled again and again to lash out at Gwen with his joke.

And honestly, can you blame him? (I can’t.)

Of course this wasn’t the ideal reaction. I have been waiting for Sam and Gwen to have a serious heart-to-heart about what’s going on forever, and Sam pretty much blew that chance without even realizing it. And I would be surprised if we get an apology out of him anytime soon, not only because this interaction is likely to push Gwen away from wanting to even be around Sam, but also because he’s not going to believe that Gwen wasn’t making fun of him or that Gwen isn’t having a delusional breakdown until he sees Mr. Bonzo with his own two eyes.

I also think this conversation would have gone very differently had Celia been there instead of Alice. Sam’s slew of psychological testing suggests he’s willing to follow the leader, and in this case he doesn’t seem immune to Alice’s general dismissiveness of Gwen. He may have even been primed to lash out at Gwen in this moment because Alice is constantly ragging on her; chameleon-like, he’ll take on the shade of the strongest personality when he’s on uncertain or dangerous footing. It’s almost a guarantee that Celia would have taken Gwen seriously, not only because she’s likely from or connected to the TMA-verse of horrors, but also because it was Celia who received the first Mr. Bonzo case. And had Celia been there to temper the disbelief, Sam would have absolutely been ready to hear Gwen out in full. I honestly cannot wait for Celia to be back in office; she’s going to walk in to these new, rancid office vibes like Troy from Community walking into the whole room on fire while casually carrying the pizza.

So, what do I think this means for the rest of the season? Well, the title of this episode seems telling: Solo Work. Gwen and Sam’s respective desires for their experiences to be validated and their goals to be taken seriously paired with the seeming dismissiveness of those around them are going to push them along their separate paths, dangerously alone. And I suspect that it is only going to be Celia or, more likely, an encounter with Bonzo, that is going to put them back on the same path—if it happens at all. Good luck, babes!

[twilightcitysky]

Everything Is Meant (long S2 analysis, part 1)

I cannot figure out for the life of me how to make gifs so this will have to be a gif-less essay. If anyone more tech savvy than me wants to reblog with relevant media, please do!

I've seen a lot of people saying how Aziraphale's actions in the final ten minutes come out of left field and are OOC, and when I first watched the episode I felt the same, but now I think I couldn't have been more wrong. And I don't think Aziraphale is being controlled... I think the entire season showed us exactly what was going to happen.

On first watch, what struck me was the number of plot points that seemed disconnected. I couldn't figure out how Job related to the present, or the Victorian era, or the Nazi zombies (still at sea on the zombies part tbh). I didn't know where the Maggie/ Nina subplot was going, or why we were bothering with it. Then I put my "psych hat" on and it was like seeing one of those 3D pictures come into focus. It's a psychological networking rather than a plot-driven one, which is what Neil told us to expect.

Detailed analysis under the cut, with spoilers:

I went back through the season in my head and started asking myself: why is this element there? What does it contribute?

1. Start with scene one. Why include it? Does it matter for the climax that Az knew Crowley as an angel? YES. It's actually huge. Angel Crowley was joyful, he was bursting with delight at creation, he was idealistic. He wanted to be a part of everything rather than run away from it, and that's still how Aziraphale feels. He loves being a part of things. He's a joiner. He's a landlord. He dances at clubs and he makes human friends and he learns magic. Crowley the demon doesn't seem to want any of that, and I think that's hard for Az. He wants Crowley to be free of the cynicism he thinks prevents him from enjoying life now. At some level, I think he senses that Crowley is depressed (empathy's not his strong suit but I'm sure he's aware that Crowley's in a "what's the point of it all" kind of mood; see the eccles cakes scene). He wants to fix it. Aziraphale is a fixer. Metatron offers him a chance to do that.

Another thing is that Aziraphale knows Crowley ended up Falling just for asking questions that seemed innocent. That's not okay with him. He thinks that with the two of them in charge they can actually MAKE the changes that Crowley wanted to see way back at the beginning, starting with a suggestion box.

2. Okay, now Jim. Obviously Gabriel/ Jim is the central mystery, but why does he matter? First and foremost: he's there to show Aziraphale that angels can CHANGE. Gabriel terrorized and threatened Aziraphale. Az has been terrified of him. He ordered Aziraphale's execution. And now here he is, drinking hot chocolate, doing noble self-sacrificing things, with morals that suddenly align with Aziraphale's. What an absolute game-changer that must have been! He thought Heaven was unfixable, but here's Gabriel in his shop for weeks, slowly convincing him otherwise.

Then two other things happen. First, they find out that this all happened to Gabriel essentially because he fell in love. He was fired and his memories were stolen and the only reason he recovered was because Beelzebub happened to give him the one thing that could save him. That must have seemed like incredible luck. Now, how does Aziraphale feel about memories? He lives in a bookshop that is stuffed to bursting with the records of all of human history, essentially. His memories of his time with Crowley are incredibly precious. He sees, there at the end, that everything he is can be taken from him as a punishment for falling in love. Aziraphale doesn't have a magic fly container. He'd be forever robbed of Crowley, his life, himself. It's a very real threat in his mind when Metatron intervenes.

Which brings us to the second thing. Metatron saves Gabriel. Not only that, he prevents him from being punished for loving Beelzebub and lets them both go. What better way to win currency with Aziraphale? HE doesn't want to go off to Alpha Centauri, he never has, but suddenly he sees that Metatron might protect his relationship. And he's probably the only entity with the power to do so.

So we come to two conclusions: Aziraphale, when he goes off to talk with Metatron, is feeling like maybe it's not intrinsically bad to be an angel. He believed all the angels sucked, and only God was good... but now he sees that even Gabriel can change. He met Muriel, and he likes them. (He also had a huge crush on angel Crowley, which is neither here nor there but he loves Crowley in all his forms.) So if Crowley became an angel again, would that really be so bad? In his mind, it wouldn't change who Crowley is. It would just make them both safer and allow them to be together. (He's wrong! And Crowley doesn't see it that way! But this is a key miscommunication. Aziraphale doesn't really believe that becoming a demon changed Crowley. Back to the first scene, which Aziraphale references during the Job minisode. In his eyes, Crowley is the same person (just more cynical because of what's happened to him)-- so why would it matter if he's an angel again? I truly don't think he was trying to save Crowley, or saying that Crowley would be Better as an angel. To him, it doesn't matter what Crowley is. Which is reductive and harmful, but not the same as thinking Crowley needs rescuing from himself.)

Second conclusion: he sees that an angel and demon can be in love, but they have to run away to be together. Gabe and Beelz couldn't go home again. Earth is Aziraphale's home, but after the attack on the bookshop he learned that without Heaven's protection he can't really keep them safe there. Metatron says: "Come with me, do this thing, and you can have guaranteed safety AND be with the love of your life". Poor Aziraphale wants this with every fiber of his being. All he's ever wanted was for Crowley to be safe. He's never been able to offer it. Over the past four years, he thought they were safe, but he's just learned that he was wrong.

This is getting long. Continued in Part Two!

[shadyr4m]

REWATCHING SEASON 2 EPISODE 7 OF ARCANE

+ some of my highlights and notable moments that I enjoyed bc people can’t understand media anymore

This is mostly an infodump of stuff I can fit into a twitter thread/didn't rly want to make into a thread. I'm not great at words so I apologize in advance, I am sure there are many people much better at analysis than I.

I want to start off by saying I am heavily invested in timebomb so this is very much going to be a ship analysis. If you're looking for someone unbiased i am very much not the person for that 😭

FIRST OFF:

The disc on the music box is adorable!!! It features au Powder (who I am going to refer to as just Powder for the duration of my analysis) and au Ekko

Compared to the normal Disc

This is very obviously because it takes place in a different universe, one without Vi or "Jinx".

The first scene starts off with AU Ekko writing in his notebook. (Cute mention is Powder's doodle in his notebook!!) Then we see flashes of the wild rune. This is when AU Ekko switches to canon Ekko.

Also one of my favorite silly images from this episode is this one.. Powder is being so adorable and Ekko is just scared out of his MIND. it's so silly.

In the Last drop, Powder asks Ekko. "What is up with you? You've been out of it all day?". One thing I noticed in my rewatch is that i think Powder is aware this Ekko isn't HER Ekko. This is just one instance of many that makes me think this.

This hideout seems so much more vibrant and loved, similar to Jinx's hideout after Isha. It's colorful. There are guard rails that I like to think was pushed by Vander. We can see Ekko's art scattered around. It just shows how much more support and family Powder has compared to Jinx, which i mention a lot.

Id also like to note Ekko being shocked au him went to powder for help. In his mind at this time he believes Jinx to be all that is left, no more Powder. Through out the episode we see that change.

Notice how Powder gets upset at Ekko in this scene. However, she doesn't react explosively like Jinx would've. She handled it in a way that shows she had support. She told him to leave instead. Again, the main difference between Powder and Jinx isn't only Vi but also the existence of multiple support systems that Jinx simply didn't have.

THIS FLASHBACK! Oh my god this flashback. The fact it happened after he upset Powder? I think it shows just how much he truly cares about Jinx/Powder. He remembers VIVIDLY the day that he thought he killed her. Jinx was his childhood best friend, and I don't think that kind of feeling ever truly goes away. He doesn't want to hurt any version of her, not even the alternate universe her. We see that showcased more later on. Also, random probably insane note. He is interrupted by small children playing, having fun. This isn't a coincidence, it shows he does miss the moments from when they were kids.

While talking with Heimerdinger, we see Ekko look at Powder multiple times. Watching her laugh and be expressive, he smiles. When she doesn't return it we see him get upset. Once more this brings me to my point that he doesn't want to hurt her. Considering he hasn't known this Powder very long you can see where I gather my point that he doesn't want to hurt her in GENERAL. Any version of her.

THIS SCENE!! He is such a bad liar it's adorable. This brings me to my earlier point, Powder knows what's up!! She suspects something 100%. He is talking about this dream her like it was real.

"You aren't the kind of person who helps other people with their projects. Your ideas change the world. I can't shake the feeling that that's who you're supposed to be."

Are you LISTENING TO THIS? He is obviously talking about Jinx. You can tell this by the first sentence because obviously Powder IS that kind of person. He's starting to see that Jinx is just a part of Powder, one that is unavoidable and that he unknowingly appreciates in a sense. Like two sides of one coin he can't see Powder without Jinx and that is good. I think it is here he realizes truly just how much he cares about Jinx.

This whole montage is beautiful but I want to zero in on two things. Powder's reaction to the notebook and how she looks at Ekko after. NOW THIS. This is the nail in the coffin for her. She knows that this is not her Ekko. She has fully gathered that he isn't from this universe.

Also heimerdinger totally knows how Ekko feels you cannot tell me otherwise. Pushing him to go to the party? yeah he knows what you are.

THIS WHOLE SCENE. I AM NOT ANALYZING THE WHOLE THING HERE BUT IT IS GORGEOUS. I saw someone talking about how it was animated on 4's to signify the way Ekko can only go back 4 seconds and I honestly shed a tear. THE SONG TOO? I encourage everyone to look at the lyrics because they're beautiful.

Okay now for my favorite part of this episode so much to dissect and i'm totally going to mansplain but yk..

"I used to dream the undercity could be like this" — That sets the tone for the whole conversation and just what world he is talking about. The canon one.

"But somewhere, I got consumed by all the ways it wasn't. I gave up on it. Gave up on YOU." — Heavy emphasis on this line. Once more he is talking about Jinx. He is talking about how he got so consumed by the way that Jinx wasn't good, and he gave up on her. Believed she was irredeemable. Powder showed him that Jinx is capable of love and happiness, it's just under that tough protective shell. The undercity in the metaphor is Jinx, from my interpretation.

"I promise i'll never forget this." — Now time for my insanity. He doesn't forget this. That's why he saves Jinx from ending her life in the first place. He remembers Powder and knows that with the right support Jinx doesn't have to be the way she is. It's not that she "needs to be fixed" she just needs to be LOVED, like Powder. He sees that now. He sees how in the au the love that everyone shares for one another shaped the undercity beautifully, and made everyone in it much healthier mentally despite going through hardships. That is beautiful. People with mental illness are not unlovable they just need more support, it can't be cured, or fixed just healed. Mental illness is always there it is how you DEAL with it that matters.

Nothing too major to talk about with the kiss. It's sweet I love it, but nothing too notable for me to say about it.

Finally, Ekko leaves the au. I have seen people say that this is a sacrifice, he could've had everything he wanted and he gave it up to save the people at home. But i take insanity to another level. I see this as him appreciating his home. He knows he can never truly love this Powder because she isn't the version he fell in love with. He learned to appreciate Jinx even through her flaws, and that while this world has everything he could want and more he can have that home too.

I am experiencing HEAVY timebomb brainrot if you can’t already tell. I was tired of people taking things in the complete wrong way with this episode, if anyone has different views pls tell me I love hearing how other people took certain scenes. there are a few scenes I love but I would’ve made this post way too long..

[barblaz-arts]

Fellow Chaggie shipper, here and I wanted to ask you a question. Could you please do an analysis post on the Chaggie argument from Hello Rosie. I know this will sound weird but I can't get over the level of icy anger Charlie had towards Vaggie or how despite everything going on, Charlie is more hurt from Vaggie not being honest with her. Just angst all around.

Oh yeah sure I'd love to!

I'm not sure there's a lot I can say about that argument that isn't already super obvious, so I wanna talk about Charlie's anger because of something my brother said as we watched episode 7. He loved that episode apparently because "When they're separated, it's even more obvious that Charlie is the one who's more quick to lose her cool." Which, looking back, is actually true!(To an extent)

Vaggie and Charlie are both quite quick to anger. Charlie is just better at hiding it because she's a chronic people pleaser. Although Charlie wouldn't immediately show her anger at a person being a jerk to her specifically, she's immediately summoning fire and brimstone over anyone who hurts/insults her friends or the cause she's fighting for.

Love this lil bit in "You Didn't Know". How Vaggie is the one telling Charlie to calm down, as if she knows what's about to happen. She knows that if she doesn't at least try to reel in her girl Charlie would be spitting literal fire at a goddamn seraphim.

It would seem like such a surprising role reversal, but if you look at all the times Charlie would lose it whenever Vaggie's not there to tell her "babe, chill", then it makes sense.

But then when their fallout happens, Charlie's short temper is even more apparent. She calls Alastor an asshole to his face even though she considered choosing his support over her father's. She openly glares and rolls her eyes at Rosie when she jokes that her and Alastor look like an item even though she still kept things cordial with Valentino after he licked her arm. She flips the bird at some old lady even though she didn't take visible offense at all the demons that inserted their crude and rude selves in "Happy Day in Hell." While she was cold and subdued even when upset with Vaggie, she was explosive and in ur face when she was pissed at everyone else.

Vaggie reigned in both the girl in Charlie who dreams a little too big and the demon who's waiting to lash out in flames. It really makes me wonder if there's a difference in the kind of person Charlie used to be before Vaggie. Before she had friends to be angry on behalf of and a person to calm her down. And then, in the wake of their argument, Charlie is left with a lot of anger that is easy to ignite.

But I love love love that despite all that anger, Charlie can't bring herself to deny that she loves Vaggie with all of her hurt heart.

This little moment is one of my favorite parts in the series. My brother mentioned that this episode and episode three were his favorites because he liked the beats the dialogues followed. So he looked back--

(the man literally paused the episode to check the opening credits of ep 7 and 3. I was a little annoyed because I just wanted my Chaggie dammit! We'd make terrible youtube reactors with all the pausing and discussing mid-episode that we do...)

--and was satisfied to see that it was written by the same person, Ariel Ladensohn. Apparently she's in a sapphic relationship too and projected her own experiences whenever she wrote Vaggie and Charlie, and it must have paid off because the moments she wrote with them felt so real.

Charlie expressing her fear that even Vaggie's support and love could also be part of the lies she told was understandable considering the betrayal she felt. But immediately following that she goes "Oh that's a horrible to thing to think!" which I love even more. Even when she's understandably mad she thinks about how Vaggie would feel over Charlie thinking that of her. Because although Vaggie lied about who she is, Vaggie was always sincere about how she felt for Charlie. Vaggie's past may have been a lie, but the things she did for, to, and on behalf of Charlie were very real and held dear in Charlie's heart.

I dont have anything smart to say to conclude this. Sorry, I'm not even sure where I went here. Let's all just appreciate the smile Charlie has on her face when she thinks about Vaggie even when she's under a lot of stress I guess.