#tharn is stubborn

[fandomfairyuniverse]

You know at this rate we’re going to get the whole Phaya-actually-drowns-and-needs-cpr thing that’s in the trailer before they actually get together and if that happens I might just have to fly to Thailand and demand compensation from Saint himself

[dear-someone-letterstomyself]

This is so interesting to me, haha just indulge me for a moment…

I’ve seen some arguments of people saying that Tharn gave in too easily when Phaya was apologizing on the verge of a full on break down in the hall at work… and I just don’t think that’s true, because in that moment it’s not ‘we just met 6 months ago’ (or however long it’s been) Phaya and Tharn talking, it’s the ‘we’ve been fated for multiple lifetimes’ Phaya and Tharn… I think we all need to remember that regular rules of engagement don’t necessarily apply to Phaya and Tharn, they’re dealing with a whole other set of circumstances… while Tharn obviously may not be thinking “oh my one true love for centuries is about to have a full on break down I need to fix this because I can’t stand seeing him upset” I do feel that Tharn sees just how distressed Phaya is and he understands, having felt the same way whenever Phayas been in danger, that these emotions are bigger than Phaya, difficult to understand and even harder to control. If he doesn’t forgive (which lets he honest he already did a long time ago, he’s just been too stubborn to say it) him, he himself won’t be able to go on feeling anywhere near okay knowing just how upset Phaya is…

This isn’t the reconciliation of a pair of workplace acquaintances turned best friends with mutual crushes on each other, it’s more akin to that of a couple who’s been together for a decade. Both Phaya and Tharn have admitted multiple times that they feel as tho they’ve known each other far longer than they actually have, so I think it makes a lot of sense to view their entire relationship through the lens of: it’s the feelings and emotions of a long term, deeply committed relationship just without the time line it would normally take to get there.

[heretherebedork]

Phaya's expression in this is so good. He's finally clawing back some control that the doctor stripped from him so, so easily before.

Again, this boy is just made of love for Tharn and enough stubbornness to climb the walls he's built and the self-designated defenders don't even stand a chance.

Boys, boys, you're literally in a meeting room with a bunch of police officers. Chill. Take a breath.

Not wrong but also, again, not the time.

Everyone else in the room is just like... what about my salad the briefing?

[agentkuryakin]

The Sign Rewatch - ep 7

I had forgotten this part. Yai calling Tharn out: you can't save everyone, sometimes you just should let karma do its work. That hits harder now because Tharn is stubborn. He says he cannot do that... But Yai is right, Tharn constantly puts himself in danger to protect/save others and that's just not sustainable. And maybe sometimes some things happening to people are the consequences of their own actions.

I like it because in the end Tharn being alive and part of the special team is him defying his own destiny. When he goes with Chalothon he apparently surrenders.

[disenchanted-youth]

These two really ticked off the doctor with their mind-blowing night escapade. How do we feel about the teaser for next week's episode? I can already feel the pain. Phaya's gonna drown and Tharn will obviously try to push him away again. Phaya is too stubborn to let him pull away, but it's gonna be a pain until then. They really can't enjoy their happiness for long and we're stuck suffering with them.

Besides that, everyone who chose Billy and Babe to play Phaya and Tharn deserves major props. Their chemistry is off the charts and they perfectly embody their characters. Like I really can't picture any one else in those roles. It's a delight watching them act together. To be honest, every single casting choice of this show has been amazing, even the guest stars.

[overthinkthis]

For the WIP game: TheSign!!!

Thank you for asking! That was actually the first file I made for writing The Sign fanfic. I thought I would just put some general ideas for fanfics in there but then I started writing scenes instead and it became this whole thing that is now my ongoing WIP. My whole plan for this was that I wanted an AU where they aren't cops:

your choice (18152 words) by LittleExample Chapters: 4/15 Fandom: ลางสังหรณ์ | The Sign (TV 2023) Rating: Explicit Warnings: Creator Chose Not To Use Archive Warnings Relationships: Phaya Chadayu Kamonwipak/Tharn Wansa Raksil Characters: Tharn Wansa Raksil, Phaya Chadayu Kamonwipak, Chalothon (The Sign), Yai Yingyai Mahanop, Sand (The Sign), Khem Songyos Maliwan, Thongthai Phathorn Phlengthai, Dao (The Sign) Additional Tags: colleagues to reincarnated lovers, slowburn, Angst, Conflict, Hurt/Comfort, Stubborn Tharn, Visions, Eventual Smut, Mutual Pining, Alternate Universe, POV Alternating Summary: Tharn is living a relatively calm life. Even his visions are less frequent than they have been in the past – that is until he meets his new colleague Phaya. Even though he tries to stay away, things quickly get complicated when a vision forces him to save Phaya’s life. It doesn’t help at all that Phaya seems determined to figure out what is going on with Tharn.

[prettysweetprettysweet]

I don't want to judge The Sign prematurely because it might be a critical part of the plot later on, but I think it would be a truly terrific show if it didn't incorporate this police justice storyline in such emotionally invasive ways. it's highly possible that Phaya is going to backtrack on his words (especially bc it seems Tharn is doubting how things happened to his dad) but when he said to the brother in a told-you-so voice that justice WILL come it just takes time sometimes...saying that to the brother given how horrifically it ended for his sister (who was abandoned/not helped in time) is absolutely heinous.

the unfortunate thing is that outside of this stubborn pigheaded copaganda perspective, Phaya is a very likable, funny, and interesting character (and Billy Patchanon is a charismatic actor). in fact, Phaya's tendency to become emotionally volatile/easily inflamed is captivating to me as a viewer - when it's about Tharn and not about senseless baseless defenses of a poisonous system spoken to the traumatized victims of said system. and again, maybe his belief in police justice is being utilized for his character arc as a real-world example of harmful emotional patterns he needs to challenge to move forward. I really, really hope Phaya's perspective over the past few episodes is addressed critically by the final episode and that 'justice will prevail' isn't the coda of this season bc if it is, I can't recommend the show to anyone no matter how good the acting of the ensemble, chemistry between the leads, action sequences, and historical fantasy storytelling.

[biinarysttars]

Making a quick masterlist of all of my TES OCs so that if someone feels compelled to ask me about them they have the names to do so :)

Arena

Evelara Wicking, the Eterenal Champion - a smart, stubborn, and dedicated member of the Imperial Court. She is a Breton Nightblade. Her parents both died following her unjust arrest-- so her desire to eliminate Jagar Tharn is borne not only out of loyalty to the Empire, but out of pure, unadulterated spite and hate.

Ivyrandil Athaere - a sexual deviant Altmer Healer cast out by his noble family after literally being caught with his pants down. He likes making potions and being a cunt to people (and loves being knocked down a peg.)

Ereld - a 16-year-old Bosmer Barbarian who was adopted by a small Nord village. He spent his whole life trying to make his village proud before opting to travel with Evelara and Ivy.

Daggerfall

None yet ;) I will add them when I play the game!

Morrowind

Travlse, the Nerevarine - a carefree Dunmer Withchhunter. He can find the silver lining to any situation, and while he seems completely self-serving, there is nothing he wouldn't do for someone if they asked.

Vivyne Faewatch - the future Queen of Morrowind, following the events in Tribunal. She is kind of a hopeless romantic, and is stubborn and patient beyond measure. She has a good heart and knows right from wrong, and she doesn't care who she pisses off about it.

Alavesa Faewatch - a baby that Vivyne found abandoned close to the end of the initial plot of Morrowind. Alavesa spends her first year or so of life travelling with Travlse and Vivyne.

Oblivion

Ko'Yana, the Hero of Kvatch - an ex-slave Khajiiti woman hailing from Morrowind. She was completely fucked over by the new Queen's sudden and poorly-implemented anti-slavery laws, and forced into a life of crime. She was arrested promptly following a hit she took out on a member of the Imperial Court. Usually I design a custom class with a focus on unarmed combat & destruction magic for her.

Everlara Wicking - a close friend of the late Emperor, and wife to his second-born son. She'll wring Mehrunes Dagon's neck herself if she has to, and she'll protect Martin with everything she has.

Skyrim

Etheara Reverie, the Last Dragonborn - an empty-headed manual labourer that travelled to Solstheim in a last-ditch attempt to revive Raven Rock Mine. In doing so, he encountered a Daedric force far, far beyond his mental ability to grasp, and he pays for it.

Vanyarintil Korothaeus, a False Dragonborn - a strong and silent chosen of Hircine. He was travelling to the Imperial City and overshot by a good bit, and ended up stumbling into a raid at the border and was arrested. He has a natural talent for learning Dragon Shouts, so it was thought for a very long time that he was the true Last Dragonborn. Also I may be making him transfem but I'm not sure how that impacts the story, or whether it impacts the story so we'll see.

Melanarto Korothaeus, a False Dragonborn - a passive and quiet priest of Mara. He travels Skyrim preaching her word, always returning to Windhelm to stay with his close friend, Revyn Sadri. They are very close. When he was a child, he happened upon a dying dragon that gave him an amulet. This amulet has the ability to absorb and keep dragon souls, so it was thought for a very long time that he was the True Last Dragonborn.

Kyryi Orah - a Maormer man that was somehow stranded off the coast of Winterhold. Because of the historical tensions between the Maormer and the Altmer, he assigned a keeper: Ancano. Somehow, his circumstances are simultaneously a dream come true and his worst nightmare; all he has ever wanted was to study magic-- but why did it have to cost his family and whole world?

Terarae Isevryn - a commanding officer in the Imperial Legion. She is a Snow Elf, but her family clan (which was large at one time) adored travelling and adventure-- so they were on the other side of the continent during the conflict with the Dwemer. Now, she is the last member of her family, and had returned to Skyrim with the hopes of being embraced by her people. But since the Falmer had become what they did, there was no place for her-- so she threw herself into the easiest work she could find: the military.

Aster Reverie - an innkeeper on Solstheim. He didn't want to let Etheara travel alone at first, so he and his fiancee moved with him and set up an inn near Tel Mithryn. He seldom hears from his twin anymore.

Anira Mirlayn - an innkeeper on Solstheim. She never had many plans for the future, so when her finace suggested moving to Solstheim to be close to his brother, she agreed. She is bright and friendly, able to draw any recluse from their shell.

[omarandjohnny]

"คราวหลังมึงก็อย่าดื้อกับกูอีก ไอ้ธาร!!"

("Next time, don't be stubborn with me again, Tharn!!")

ธาร อย่าเข้าไปล���ก!! ตรงนั้นมันมีระเบิด

(Tharn, don't go in!! There's an explosion there.)

[talldarkandroguesome]

28th of Second Seed, Sundas

At last we draw near to our destination.

And do you know how we came to that? Well, it was because at long last Nettle admitted that he was not sure how to navigate the area. All this stubbornness for naught. And sure enough, he was taking us in circles.

I was finally able to convince him by leaving a mark that we agreed upon at a very prominent boulder just before the edge of the valley, which he was convinced was a different valley altogether, but I was convinced was just a slightly further along portion that we had already passed.

Then when the mark appeared, with us walking in a different direction, but the shape was distinctive enough that it could not be mistaken, Nettle had to admit that he was wrong.

Of course, I was not entirely certain of how to return to the path, though I was able to pick some things off the map and find them to help.  And Tharn just gave us a circle of a large area to investigate anyhow, so finding it is already more difficult than it might have been.

I have some hope now though. Azura seems to have answered my prayers, for I am at least able to see that we are in a particular area now and can use the sun’s position to help determine the general way to head from here.

The mountains prove a difficult landscape to traverse, but we are managing it. And I know we will manage to catch up with Khamira in time.

[elisebal]

*Sigh*

I just had a conversation with my husband about my comments towards Tharn. He's telling me to apologise, or at least clear it up. So here I go I guess.

@the-tharns-speak Right, so I'm fairly certain that both of us are too stubborn to admit that we're in the wrong so at the request of my husband, I'm not apologizing, but I am going to clear the air as much as possible.

I've had a bad week, several (five of them) dragons decided to attack our home on our first week off since Alduin's death (a year and a half ago) and burn down nearly half the Falkreath forest before we could stop it, I have had a splitting headache from absorbing only three of the souls (Miraak got the other two), have been throwing up since before the headache started (this morning) also there's an approaching full moon, and as a werewolf that makes my temper all the fiercer.

Miraak and I... We've been trying for kids and over the last year and a half, we've had three miscarriages, one single and then twins. The twins miscarried separately (I believe this is called Vanishing twin syndrome or VTS) so this is one of the many reasons I've been rather rude.

I- Oh fine. I apologize for being rude,I've been exceedingly stressed lately for the above-mentioned reasons.

[vestige-of-hope]

anyone else afraid that abnur’s gonna die

[dreamingsnowflake2013]

The Marriage Argument: Tharn’s Perspective

Both Tharn and Type have valid arguments about the marriage so they have inevitably been bound to clash. The reason for the clash is that they’re two people who have been formed by very different experiences, including their individual past traumas, making them into the men they are now: an idealist with a streak for eternal optimism and a realist with a tendecy for negativity; an all-out gay and a former homophobe; a hopeless romantic and a cynical pragmatic, someone who’s loved before and was broken by it and a man who is in love for the first time in his life.

Season 1 focused on Type’s problems, flaws and character developemnt as he had come a very long way. And although Tharn’s issues were addressed, they have never been completely resolved, therefore the focus in Season 2 shifts towards him and delves deeper into his character: his insecurities, hopes and personality traits.  

It’s not only their differences which divide them, but also what they have in common because like repels like, so while Tharn and Type differ in many ways, they are viscerally and uncannily similar in others, which is something many people don’t realise. THEY ARE BOTH FIGHTERS - strong, stubborn as mules and immensely brave - who have overcome huge obstacles, not only in their relationship, but also as individuals. For instance, everyone talks about how stubborn Type is, but it gets rarely mentioned that Tharn is as stubborn, if not even more. He merely isn’t so loud about it.

The most important and inherent aspect of Tharn’s personality is that he is an idealist who has always wished for the impossible and fought losing battles, ultimately having his wishes granted and winning those battles most of the times due to his dogged stubborness and refusal to budge and give up on what he believes in. He’s been like this for most of his life, even before we met him in S01E01, so when some people claim that the Tharn in Season 2 is not the same Tharn, they never really known him or understood him. Therefore, it there is one quote that perfectly describes Tharn in both seasons, it is this one:

Tharn’s always dreamed the impossible dream: to study music, for Type to love him and only him one day. 

Furthermore, he’s fought against the odds and opposition: the prejudice against his sexuality, his parents’ initial refusal to allow him study music, Type’s bullying, Type wanting to keep their relationship a secret from everyone else,... and he has overcome and defeated all of them with his unrelenting optimism and relentless refusal to give up. He still believed in love despite all his terrible breakups and didn’t give up on Type no matter how badly Type treated him, believing Type is a good person.

The very qualities that stopped Than from moving out of the dorm when Type harassed him 7 years ago, leading to them being together, and enabled him to live his life the way he wanted and to win Type’s love, despite the fact he was fighting a losing battle each time - tenacity and pride and insane stubbornness - are both his greatest strengths and greatest weaknesses. So once again Tharn hopes for the impossible: this time, it’s marriage.

Tharn accepted himself a long time ago, coming out to his parents when he was in 12th grade, openly admitting that he was gay in school and later, in work, as well. Unlike Type, he is an all-out gay, therefore he is in a very different place than his lover. However, he, too, had struggled with it. It took him 4 years before he dared to come out to his parents and publicly reveal he’s gay. So ever since, he’s been dealing with everything that comes with it, both the positive and negative. There must have been times when Tharn was marginalized, discriminated against and felt inferior due to his sexual orientation, most noticebly while being bullied by a certain homophobic roommate. 

On the other hand, while Type told his family and friends about his relationship, he’s never come out publicly, so he still lacks the final step and the experience that comes with it.

Performing at his own brother's engagement party the love song he wrote for Type and seeing him propose to the woman he loves, still hurting because Type has refused his own proposal many times and doesn’t want to get married to him, break something inside Tharn. 

He wants the same thing, but he can’t have it and that makes him hurt, desolate, bitter and envious. He’s been with Type much longer than Thorn with Aom and they’ve been through so much, earning their right to be together, yet marriage seems like an impossible dream, the only thing that Type has refused to give him. Not only does he feel cheated of something that should be his, but it makes him feel inferior, marginalized and not good enough. 

Because if he were a woman, Type wouldn’t refuse to talk about him with his co-workers and would have agreed to marry him a long time ago. Instead,Tharn has to come up with excuse why he won't introduce his boyfriend to his collegues. This has been an ongoing issue since season 1. 

 And this is where those who argue that if Type doesn't want to get married Tharn shouldn't make him completely misunderstand the problem - the marriage is only a symbol, representing equality and Tharn's desire to be like any other couple in all the things that matter.

While Tharn can compromise a lot, he is no doormat and has a certain set of morals and beliefs he will never break. He has enough self-worth to know that he deserves better. Once again, it’s the same quality which didn’t allow him to move out of the dorm when Type bullied him. So it says a lot that the only time Tharn seriously contemplated breaking up with Type was when he thought Type slept with Puifai. He couldn’t bear to be treated as second rate, a spare tire, a mistress and a dirty secret and share Type with someone else. It’s a line he will never be able to cross, his pride and heart won’t allow it. Tharn wants equality, thus he wants it all, wants what everyone else has. And being denied marriage to the love of his life makes him feel incomplete, deficient, depraved, as if he were somehow undeserving of it.

Speaking of inferiority, Tharn has never gotten over his abandonment issues: being dumped by all his past lovers, including Tar, his first love,... In fact, it has actually become worse when Type broke up with him 7 years ago. It might have been fake, but Tharn didn’t know that back then, so the heartbreak he felt was real - his body, his heart and his mind went through a real breakup and they remember it all. 

The thing with traumas is that while you might heal and overcome them, you will never forget about them because they leave behind traces, scars that will hurt from time to time and never let you forget about them. During his formative years, Tharn got used to being thrown away and Type’s abandoment was the one that cut him the deepest. Because of all this, Tharn  developed a deeply-rooted and hidden inferiority complex together with his fear of being left behind. Deep down, he always worries that he isn’t good enough and that no matter how hard he tries, he will be abandoned in the end. 

The scar caused by Type’s breakup has never healed and was left to fester, staying latent over the years, and it’s always been only a matter of time before it reared its ugly head. There is always a price to pay eventually and the consequences of that breakup have been merely postponed. 

The mere mention of breakup is enough to trigger Tharn, but hearing Type explaining to Thorn that marriage would make things more messy and difficult when they broke up shatters him, it’s basically the ultimate trigger.

Tharn knows what it feels like to lose Type, he lived through it and it almost destroyed him, so he doesn’t want to experience it ever again because he wouldn’t survive it. Therefore he has been doing everything in his powers to prevent it and bind Type to him in every way possible, desperately trying to stop him from leaving and himself from being abandoned once again. 

And marriage is one of those bonds, actually, it’s a real palpable bond that binds a person’s life to another. It involves people making a sacred and legally binding promise, proclaiming their love publicly, in front of eveyone, and they exchange rings, the symbol of the bond and eternity, as well. In some cultures, the couple’s ahnds get literally binded together. So it’s no wonder that Tharn desires to get married to Type so much. 

Moreover, a proposal, an engagement party and a wedding ceremony are incredibly romantic moments and Tharn is the ultimate romantic with a penchant for grand romantic gestures and declarations, organizing glamping dates on rooftops, giving his boyfriend red roses,... therefore he does want to do it all.

Finally, the primary reason for the inferiority complex and fear of abandonment comes from the fact that THARN IS A MIDDLE CHILD. His family is very loving and he’s never been neglected, but being a middle child means he is neither fish nor fowl, neither the oldest or the youngest. He’s grown used to taking himself out of the equation, to compromise and to share the love of his parents with his siblings. So he desperately wants someone to be only his, someone who he doesn’t have to share with anyone; HE WANTS TYPE AND HIS LOVE TO BELONG ONLY TO HIM, COMPLETELY AND UNCONDITIONALLY. It’s a visceral need on his part and the reason behind his strong jealous streak.

[kinnporsche]

tharntype meme: [2/3] favorite characters → tharn thara kirigun

“he has nothing but good looks. he’s annoyingly attentive. normally, he’s cool and calm like ice, but when he gets angry, all hell breaks loose. and he’s stubborn.”

[life-rewritten]

TharnType 7 Years: A flashback to the past and A foreshadow of the future aka The truth of TharnType and LeoFiat ;Episode 6

Guess what another Tharn and Type analysis, another repetition of the duality, mirroring, shadowing of Tharn and Type (TT) and Leo and Fiat, but this time it's even more complicated, and every time I analyse these two it gets even more complicated and painful. I'm going to try and write out a full analysis of why Leo and Fiat (LF) are more complicated when you try to compare them to TT. Fiat reminds us of Type in season 1; he's stubborn, immature and problematic and Leo reminds us of Tharn just by longing secretly for Fiat and always putting Fiat's well being first, but that's only on the surface. Leo and Fiat have even more depth than those comparisons, there are times where Fiat is actually more like Tharn and Leo is more frustrating as Type. Confused? Let's go into more detail.  Also JUST realised that it’s both episode 6 of season 1 and season 2 that are mirrored this way. That’s incredible. 

What I like Mame and her writing for shows is that she loves making sure you go through a journey with her characters. Her villains usually are not just one-dimensional irrational villains, they have depth, in fact, most of the time they have their own love interest later, sometimes we root for them (like Tin from Love By Chance Season 1, and Tul from a chance to love), sometimes we feel upset and angry and frustrated at the actions they do. It's no surprise in a show as explosive as TT we get Fiat, someone who is also very polarising. But you know what? I love that about him. I didn't think this series will make me fall for another couple as much as I love TT, but no I am obsessed with Leo and Fiat, their dynamic, their requited longing that they both don't see and think it's unrequited from their point of views, their love for each other and what they mean to each other. 

You can find my previous Tharn and Type posts about how this season is about Misunderstandings, Misreading and Miscommunications from two different perspectives, our couples all have something to overcome since they don't see each other's views, and Leo and Fiat are the same. The most important thing they don't know about each other is how much, how great, how uncontrollably they are with their love for each other. Leo is refusing to show it, and Fiat is more reactive and preventive to it. Both are idiots who can't see something so obvious, but hey that's what makes this trope even more angsty and dramatic, both couples go through drama, pain and we the audience join the ride. And it's funny people complain that this show has no angst as the past season. Still, Leo and Fiat literally are the plotline of the past season, just as angsty, just as passionate (despite no s*x) and just as dramatic and idiotic. 

 What I love about TT and LF as a couple is that they both are flawed. It's funny because other people always focus on just one of the couples as the most problematic, but no, they are always both all in need of growth and change. Shocking right? It seems like we should feel sorry for Leo, and hate and complain about Fiat's personality, but actually, Leo is just as problematic as Fiat, he's also been a source of hurt to Fiat for so long. The same way in season 1, Type was to Tharn, and Tharn was to Type at the beginning when he didn't know what Type went through. The beautiful thing is seeing how love changes these characters, how needing each other makes them finally become who they're meant to be and how they finally get to their end; confident, happy and satisfied. And we the audience are part of this, we end up crying, and never wanting to let go of the show.  Let me show you how:

Tharn Type and Pufai vs Leo Fiat and Type dilemma

Ah yes, I'm sure you've seen the similarities and mirroring to Leo and Fiat with Tharn and Type in season 1 episode 4-7. The introduction of Pufai caused a massive problem for Tharn and Type and almost caused them to end everything. One because it was the most hurtful Type was to Tharn, and two because it was the only time Tharn almost gave up on Type. It's so interesting when you look at what was happening at that time, and then when you look at Fiat and Leo, you see the similarities on a different level. Let me explain;

When Pufai shows up Tharn and Type are unofficial, they call themselves s*x friends, Type ensures Tharn that they're not in a relationship and he shouldn't overstep the line with it. Tharn as always is more believing that he can make Type agree to be his, and everything seems great at that time. Except then Pufai shows up, she's interested in Type and is precisely what he thinks is his type, he also is enjoying getting to know her, and he finds himself intrigued by her flirting with him. Type does not see any problem (though there's guilt) to flirting with Pufai because he's not dating Tharn, they're not official, they are just friends with benefits. Type keeps it a secret; he's seeing Pufai, but Tharn finds out and loses his cool, how could Type do this? Isn't he his? This leads Type to emphasise on the unofficiality of their relationship with a list of rules, they were never meant to be anything. Tharn is accepting of this at first because it's the only way he can stay with Type however the more Type gets close to Pufai, mostly planning to sleep and ask her to be his girlfriend, the more his heart shatters. Tharn proceeds to break down and cry about the futile love he has for Type. He has to move on, but he doesn't know how. Except, Type realises that if there are people like Pufai in his life, there'd be others for Tharn, he doesn't like that; Tharn is his, and so from here we see Type apologise, and TT become official to each other. Their relationship is now deemed unbreakable, no one else is allowed to break it, they've chosen each other as their person. You may be wondering why I have just repeated this whole storyline, but it's crucial, now read through this summary of Leo and Fiat and try and find out why:

Leo and Fiat are friends, but not really. They've been close to each other for 10 years. I say not really because everyone even we can tell there's more to them. Fiat is always trying to cross the line with their friendship; he ensures Leo knows he wants him to flirt and notice him. Leo ignores this and thinks Fiat is fickle and not serious. Fiat then proceeds to sleep with others, and flirt with others to take his attention from that. But each time that happens, he gets bored and returns back to Leo flirting and asking for his attention like a child. Leo is comfortable with this, as long as he's Fiat's main focus, as long as he's able to keep Fiat by his side, then what they have is excellent. Except Type shows up, he's Fiat's type, he's intrigued in getting to know him, and Type pays attention to Fiat more than others do, for Fiat, they have a connection, something feels warm and safe with Type, and wow he wants to pursue what he has with Type. Pause before episode 4 Fiat didn't know Type wasn't single, he just chose to be serious with Type before that, he fell for Type before that.

Leo is uncomfortable; this doesn't sit right for some reason, Type is actually important to Fiat and Fiat is not paying attention to him. Leo tells Fiat, Type is dating, Fiat brushes it off and says he still wants Type. Leo explodes, and Fiat ends up broken-hearted and hurt that Leo would kick him out. More shockingly, he unveils that the reason he's desperate to be with someone like Type is because; Surprise! Leo, and yet Leo isn't thinking about how he feels. Shocker. Leo returns and apologises and takes Fiat inside but now we the audience are confused? What does he mean by that? Why is liking Type for Leo? Why is Fiat so problematic, and why is Leo and Fiat's dynamic confusing? 

Did you see the similarities?  Let's look at it differently. Let's give roles to Fiat and Leo as TT, who is more like Tharn in the Pufai arc and who is more like Type? 

On the Surface and Personalities.

Obviously, the first thing you look at is the designated Uke and Seme role. Who in this story on the surface so far is longing for the other, and who is acting like what they have doesn't matter and is problematic. Well, Leo is acting more like Tharn then. He's longing secretly and hurt because of Fiat's actions with other people, just as Tharn did with Pufai and Type, he's the one showing jealousy and fear of being left. He's not okay with the shift in their unofficial relationship and seems like he wants more. Like Tharn he looks perfect, protective and romantic than Fiat. He seems devoted and loyal like Tharn is to Type. And he's the seme just like Tharn. So he must be mirroring Tharn, right?

And we have Fiat like Type his eyes wander, he's the one who's treating what he and Leo have as nothing, he's problematic and loud and stubborn and childish just like Type was in the arc. Type shouted, was rude, and even punched Tharn remember? He proceeded to keep being nonchalant towards Tharn's feelings because Tharn wasn't the one for him. After all, he was homophobic. Fiat is not homophobic, but he's spoilt, childish and selfish, he's an attention seeker, so he acts like a brat to get attention. When he has the attention, he takes people for granted, and he does things that are problematic for example he doesn't think it's wrong to stop wanting Type after finding out he's not single. Fiat is like because I want it I must have it. And Type was similar; not the same way (trying to ruin a relationship) but he was selfish and cruel to Tharn because he refused to acknowledge what Tharn wanted, he could tell it was killing Tharn, but he proceeded because it didn't mean anything or he was trying to convince himself that it didn't mean anything, he was just as bratty and childish as Fiat was when questioned about his choices. So yeh he's mirroring Type in this situation right? 

Except still looking on the surface, mind you; let's look at the mindsets and psychological past of the characters and see who mirrors who here. Bare with me, let me explain. 

On Background and Mindsets

Let's look at the background: Tharn is used to getting what he wants, that's why when Type continues to reject him he keeps holding out hope it'll happen, he also is rich, spoilt and manipulative but in a more sneaky way. He knows how to guilt Type into feeling sorry, and he convinced Type to continue what they have. When he realises things aren't going his way, he mopes, rejects it but then goes back to Type until he can't take it anymore. I also want you to notice who ends up crying and heartbroken in this arc it's Tharn this is important for later. 

 Tharn also felt unlovable and always was seeking for someone to pay attention and stay by his side; he's the middle child who ended up having to grow quicker and be a tiny bit neglected, he also had his heartbroken from the previous relationships; he's always felt left behind, neglected and not taken seriously. Who does that remind you of? Fiat. 

Although Tharn's family loved him, so he still ended up okay. Fiat is a worse version of Tharn; in this case, he was just as neglected but even graver because his parents paid no attention to him and only gave him material things (hence why he's spoilt and selfish), he realised that acting like a baby got him attention and what he wants;  that's why he's manipulative. He also felt not taken seriously by people, like people didn't get him. Even the person he cared about; Leo, who he was confident was someone he can rely on also made him feel neglected (because he kept ignoring his feelings). Fiat knows how to act like a baby to get Leo to bend to his will, but just like Tharn with Type in the Pufai arc, he doesn't think it's because Leo is 100 % devoted to him. It's also Fiat who ends up crying broken-hearted during this episode. I'll explain later. 

Type is different, his mindset is shaped by his past. He doesn't think what he and Tharn could be is right, he's homophobic and determined to keep what they have unofficial. He doesn't want to cross the line, he keeps on pushing away Tharn's feelings refusing to deal with it seriously, and this is why he gets fixated on Pufai. He's desperate to avoid what he feels for Tharn, and he's desperate to keep his walls up no matter what because he's afraid to be hurt. It makes sense. As much as people don't yet see this, same as Leo. Type is protective of his heart, himself and his environment, Leo is the same, he doesn't think crossing the line with Fiat is right not because he's homophobic but because he thinks Fiat's feelings are fickle and not real; he keeps refusing to see that Fiat wants him because he's afraid showing Fiat feelings will make him bored and move on, and ruin their friendship. He's desperate to keep pretence that what they have is friendship, is defensive when people joke about him and Fiat and is repeatedly ignoring anytime Fiat tries to make a move. It's frustrating, and each time he does it, Fiat gets hurt even more. 

This is why he's on the stairs crying wondering if Leo ever actually thinks about how he feels in their situation. It's the same way Tharn thought about Type. Leo is determined to not seem vulnerable, in love or weak, he even pretends his selfless actions to Fiat has no meaning even when Fiat prods him for answers he refuses to tell him why he does all the things he does, he claims its because he wants to, he has to because Fiat is crazy, but we all know it's because of three simple words, he loves him. And Fiat has guessed and questioned that just as Tharn assumed that Type also loved him but wasn't ready to show it. Tharn stayed loyal and patient with Type until Pufai entered the picture. Fiat is the same, when Type shows up (a difference because Pufai was for Type) he's desperate to change his loyalties so he can stay by Leo's side without hurting and giving up, on them. 

Basically, Fiat is doing what Tharn would have done if Type had not returned to him during Pufai arc, he would have started looking for someone else to take the pain away from not having Type. And Leo is like Type when Type realises he can't keep things unofficial because it means; others like Pufai could come to Tharn, he doesn't like that, and he proceeds to cross the line with Tharn. Leo is becoming that way, the way Fiat wants Type is starting to no longer be a meaningless thing he can avoid, he's beginning to realise that their unofficial status, he so desperately tried to keep has no hold or control over this situation, he's still learning, but soon he'll realise being vulnerable is the only way to remedy this, but he might be too late. 

So on the surface, you see how these two mirror each other? Let's look at this even more further. The unofficial list that Type sent Tharn is the same as the determination to keep things unofficial Leo has with Fiat. It's more unspoken, but it's the same rules without the sleeping together aspect. Leo is okay with Fiat being with others as long as they're not interfering with what he and Fiat have.  Leo is okay with them cuddling and being close and doing things for each other but never crossing that line.  Leo has the role as Fiat's person to everyone, he's the protector, most intimate relationship and the designated 'boyfriend' role to Fiat as long as no one tries and label it. Leo is okay with certain rules and understandings about what he and Fiat have, like rules, and as long as Fiat and others don't try and label it, it shouldn't be an issue. It's the same way as Type. 

Duality and Differences of Opinion

The difference here is Leo isn't chasing after someone else, he's not the one with the Pufai. Fiat is. Leo isn't being cruel to Fiat by proceeding to find someone else the way Type does, but he's still doing the same thing Type does to Tharn with or without another person. He's still invalidating Fiat's feelings, he's still preventing the line from being crossed no matter how much Fiat tries, he's still defensive when it comes to others seeing them as more than friends, and he's adamant that what Fiat is saying he's feeling is not right, it's just Fiat being Fiat, and it's not going to last, it's the same way Type thought about Tharn's feelings.  

Fiat may be the one who seems like the one invalidating the relationship, but it's actually more complicated than that. In Leo's perspective, he's Tharn; he's the one with the unrequited love, the one with the person who doesn't take his feelings seriously, who sleeps with others cruelly without taking account his feelings, the person he's had to stay loyal and patient with because he's devoted to him entirely.

 In Fiat's perspective? He's Tharn, he's the one who's been trying years to cross that line with Leo, he's the one who has been waiting for Leo to take him seriously, he's the one who has to try and search for others to ensure that he's distracted by his rejected feelings so he can keep being by Leo's side, he's desperately searching for someone else like Leo, so he doesn't keep hurting secretly by his invalidation of what they have. For Fiat, he's the one who's loyal, patient and devoted to Leo ultimately; everyone can see it, he even lets Leo know how he feels.  But also it's the reason why he keeps on acting spoilt and bratty; it's all for Leo's attention and love. It's the only time Leo shows him affection. Everything Fiat does is for Leo. He wasn't being dramatic when he said it in this episode. So why is he falling for Type then?  What's the deal with Type then? 

The importance of Pufai

To understand why Fiat wants Type. You have to again return back to the surface similarities he has with Type in season 1. You have to look at why Type decided to give a relationship with Pufai a go despite knowing he had Tharn. The reasons why Type wanted Pufai:

She was right for him

She was his type 

She intrigued him

He liked talking and being with her

Let's break this down and compare it to Fiat then:

The right person for him

Type thought Pufai was right for him. One she was a girl, and he was finally relieved he found a girl he liked, someone who was just as into him, as confident and flirty as him, and he wanted that about her. She also showed him she had similarities to him, she mentioned the type of food he liked and found they had a lot in common. She was an ideal girlfriend. For Fiat, Type is not right for him because of the same reasons, but because he found someone who was just like him. Remember Fiat reminded Type of a younger him; Type was inspirational to Fiat, he also was someone who paid attention to him and showed him care and nurture when others didn't understand him. Type showed him the same kind of patience Leo showed him, but he also called Fiat out, and Fiat liked that. He could tell he and Type were similar, and it made him feel safe and happy when he was with Type. Type also was the person who was helping him deal with the fact that he couldn't play basketball, he was involved in the process of healing and assisting Fiat to become stronger to return to his passion. Fiat found that as another reason for why Type was right for him. Finally, there was someone else other than Leo who made him feel comfortable, happy and was determined to help him get to his passion. Type replaced the empty space Leo left when he went to Italy. Fiat embraced that and became obsessed with it. 

His Type 

In case it's not apparent his type are people who aren't afraid to call him out. People who make him calm down. Remember Fiat liked that Leo was able to be someone who helped deal with his emotional crisis, someone who was able to keep him in control, he trusted and appreciated who he was with Leo. Type reminded him of Leo, just like Leo paid attention but also made sure to scold Fiat whenever he took things too far;Type did the same, Type managed to tame Fiat by just speaking to him and calling him out on why he was throwing tantrums. Type is also good looking, and mature (same as Leo) and calm. We know he isn't generally like this, but this is how he appears in front of Fiat, and Fiat likes that about him. Plus Type is a quest. Or started off as a quest. Type had his walls up remember to Fiat? He was confused why he wasn't giving in to his manipulations, or his charm like others will. The other person who had walls up and didn't give into Fiat's charm was you guessed it, Leo. So Type is a similar copy of Leo to Fiat, someone who makes him excited, giddy, but also someone he can't win over easily. The idea of the chase also ensures that for the first time, he won't be easily bored, he'd always be distracted if he chooses to chase after Type. 

Intrigue and Needs

It's that chase that kept Fiat intrigued and wanting to know more about Type. For Type Pufai fascinated him because she did not shy away from him, she flirted and was direct to him. Also, she intrigued him because at that moment, he was dealing with intense internalised homophobia and confused feelings. He was starting to be scared of falling for Tharn, for the way he was feeling for Tharn and how it was beginning to consume him despite his need to try and ignore it. 

Fiat is the same. Fiat was falling for a futile relationship. Not falling; was already addicted and attached to the idea of a hopeless relationship that was hurting him. He was realising how much it was becoming a problem for him to be without Leo; it was killing him, and if you watch episode 2 again you can see how much Leo's absence was breaking him. He was realising he had to do something otherwise he would be forever stuck in this cycle. It would ruin the friendship he had with Leo. 

Type was intriguing because he was the first person in so long that Fiat wasn't bored of, he was the first person that made Fiat want to do something, to forget Leo, the first person who distracted Fiat from his ache. So Type was like a cure he needed desperately, he needed someone to keep him in denial, to make him forget about the issue with the unofficiality with Leo, to make him stop resenting the fact that his feelings were invalidated. Type did that. It doesn't matter if Type has a boyfriend (the more the chase becomes intriguing for him) because Type is the first person he feels this way for. It has to be Type he chases after, it has to be Type who he ends up with because if not; his choice is to stay stuck in this painful cycle with Leo. 

That's why he tells Leo it has to be Type, that's why he breaks down when Leo tells him it can't be because he was now sure he wasn't going to be able to keep being quiet and patient about what he had with Leo. The same realisation Tharn had in the bar with Type and Pufai, it had to end. But for both Fiat and Tharn, the idea of losing their person was a damaging thought, they didn't know how to cope with. Hence Fiat was desperate to find a solution for him; it was Type.

Talking and Being with him

That's another thing Type found out with Pufai, he liked replying to her texts, their flirtations made him smile, and he enjoyed speaking to her despite being in love with Tharn. Fiat is the same, he smiles just at the thought of seeing or talking to Type. He likes learning, and seeing that Type is a good person. He enjoyed observing Type, and how he acted, but also he liked the conversations they had, their discussions were deep even if people don't want to acknowledge it. Type's first conversation with Fiat was about how he understood what he was feeling and how he knew why he was acting the way he was. It was vulnerable, it was inspiring it was deep, not surface level. And Type also opened up to Fiat this episode, about his stress, burdens and others. 

Their conversations are actually interesting and important, and they both help the other feel better. It's why Type is okay with showing Fiat attention (despite how he acted when he was angry and stressed) he sees Fiat like a little brother, a version of his old self. And Fiat sees Type as a role model, someone to look up to and learn from and be with. That's why he liked talking to him. But Leo is the person who Fiat loves the most to discuss with, to be with and to stay with. But when Leo can't be an option, Type is a perfect replacement, distraction and copy. 

How Pufai affected TT

Tharn: He broke down and tried to accept it, but he was broken-hearted. Similar to Fiat breaking down at the Futility of what he and Leo have. He realised like Tharn there was no way to get over Leo if it's not Type. Hence his determination that it must be Type even if he has kids or a boyfriend.

Type: She made him think others could do the same to Tharn. If he got with her; Tharn would be free to sleep around and find someone else. This is why he runs back; meanwhile, Leo is also finding this out slowly the more Fiat falls for Type. If he doesn't show ownership of Fiat, then he's free to do what he wants.  Leo knows that, and he's afraid because he also can see that Type isn't like others to Fiat, Type is a replacement for him. That's what he was angrier about; not Fiat saying Type had a boyfriend, but he'll still chase him, he was mad because this was more serious for Fiat than he wanted it to be.

 That's the difference with TT and LF. Type realised that Tharn was the one once he couldn't sleep with Pufai, once he realised what he wanted was Tharn. Leo knows what he wants but refuses to let himself be vulnerable, refuses to try and cross that line and keeps finding excuses why he and Fiat are friends. Fiat is like Tharn; patient, sulky and devoted, but he's also different to Tharn because he had a different environment with family. Fiat is what Tharn did before Type if you remember:  he slept around with people desperate to find the one and be loved. Unfortunately, he got bored, left and hurt each time he returned back to his situation and the permanent realisation that Leo was his person. It was futile he wouldn't be able to get over him. Tharn at that moment had given up on the idea of finding love, so seeing Type, he was determined to make it real no matter what. Same as Fiat just not the same way, for Leo he was determined to make it stay the same no matter what so he was determined to find someone else no matter what.  If Fiat didn't try to find a way to move on from Leo, he would end up being Long in season 1, he'd be angry and upset and manipulative and determined to ruin whoever tried to be with Leo. But the reason why he tried to move on was that he didn't want to be resentful of Leo, he tried to find a way to stay by his side without breaking each time he did. That's why he's determined it must be Type. 

Oh wow. The way I'm obsessed with these two couples dynamic, the way I live every Friday to see more, to uncover more, to know more about them. I live for this trope. I keep repeating it. But it makes me appreciate Mame's genius so much, I know it's forbidden to praise her as a writer. Still, when it comes to TT, Mame is a gift, she's incredible. She ensures that her characters are written with so much depth, and intrigue, their love is so deep it transcends everything, it makes everyone lose their minds, it makes everyone want to keep on watching and obsessing over the stories when she reveals the truth. Fiat and Leo are her reveals and plot twist this season. They're incredible. I hope people see why I love this show so much. I hope it stays this way until the end. 

More Tharn Type Analysis: Masterpost Check under Tharn and Type Here

[overthinkthis]

My two favourite moods going into writing fanfic:

and

This being said, the next chapter of 'your choice' is up:

your choice (31051 words) by LittleExample Chapters: 7/19 Fandom: ลางสังหรณ์ | The Sign (TV 2023) Rating: Explicit Warnings: Creator Chose Not To Use Archive Warnings Relationships: Phaya Chadayu Kamonwipak/Tharn Wansa Raksil Characters: Tharn Wansa Raksil, Phaya Chadayu Kamonwipak, Chalothon (The Sign), Yai Yingyai Mahanop, Sand (The Sign), Khem Songyos Maliwan, Thongthai Phathorn Phlengthai, Dao (The Sign) Additional Tags: colleagues to reincarnated lovers, slowburn, Angst, Conflict, Hurt/Comfort, Stubborn Tharn, Visions, Eventual Smut, Mutual Pining, Alternate Universe, POV Alternating Summary: Tharn is living a relatively calm life. Even his visions are less frequent than they have been in the past – that is until he meets his new colleague Phaya. Even though he tries to stay away, things quickly get complicated when a vision forces him to save Phaya’s life. It doesn’t help at all that Phaya seems determined to figure out what is going on with Tharn.