#thai bl tropes

[heretherebedork]

It's the oldest move in the book but not one we actually see in BL all that often. @absolutebl I know we see it other times but it feels very underutilized in BL, honestly. I love it. Oh, Thames.

[poetry-protest-pornography]

It seems like almost getting hit by a motor vehicle is a really good way to find a boyfriend in Thailand (and at least once in Taiwan)?

(Boy Next World, Love By Chance, Your Sky**, probably a dozen others I'm forgetting about)

**boyfriend not actually obtained

Also, actually getting hit by a motor vehicle.

(For Him, See Your Love~, definitely at least one or two that I'm forgetting about)

(~not Thailand, but excellent boyfriend via minor car accident)

*I really hope the prevalence of this trope is not reflective of actual pedestrian involved car accidents in Thailand, because idk if a boyfriend is worth getting hit by a car.

Please add your favorite boyfriend obtained via motor vehicle accident!***

(***we are NOT talking about that one time it went the other way)

[waitmyturtles]

There's a Bad Buddy Anonymous out there to whom I owe an answer to!

If you're an Anonymous who wrote me an ask about Bad Buddy's episode 7, and you noted that you liked the un-formulaic way in which Pat and Pran reconciled their relationship, and asked for recommendations for dramas to watch *before* Bad Buddy, ones that might reflect on that un-formulaic quality that you liked so much: I apologize for the delay in responding.

I had a great answer that I had all written up, that the web editor ate. :'( The web editor LOVES to eat asks in drafts. Lame.

So here's my best attempt to recreate that answer!

***

Non, thanks for the ask! Ha.

Okay, so, Bad Buddy's episode 7, the competition-in-love episode. What is so great about this episode is that the boys are equals in their competition to get each other to confess first. They're both so clearly sweating for each other, they are totally aware of it, and yet they're still committed to the bit until the very end, when Pat confesses that he'll always throw the game for his lover.

Non, in your original ask, you noted that this set-up went against the formula of how couples usually reconcile their attractions to each other to confirm a relationship. You then asked for recommendations for dramas that a beginner should watch before Bad Buddy, so with that, I assume you mean that you'd like recommendations of Thai BLs. I'm going to interpret your ask from here on out as an ask that reflects on your appreciation for how we got to the setup that was episode 7 of BBS. I can help with this, but I'll also call in some experts at the end to ponder this!

I so appreciate that your ask focused specifically on Bad Buddy, because: my watching and appreciating BBS was a major reason why I myself wanted to learn about the early development of the Thai BL genre. Bad Buddy upends a ton of tropes that had been established in early Thai BL dramas -- I wanted to gain a better appreciation for what BBS was doing, so I hit the archives in my Old GMMTV Challenge project.

As I review the OGMMTVC syllabus for thoughts on recommendations, I'm reflecting on dramas that relied heavily on certain tropes that established the exact formula that BBS/episode 7 spins around. To me, namely, that's the pursuer/pursuee structure, better known as the seme/uke structure.

Pran and Pat are equals in episode 7 -- they're both chasing each other. Earlier Thai BLs almost always featured a seme who pursued an unknowing uke, and very commonly, that uke would have a queer revelation to realize that they were falling in love with their seme pursuer. (In BBS, Pat indeed has a revelation -- but he's not being pursued at that moment. He just realizes that he's fallen in love. By episode 7, both boys are the pursuers of each other.)

So in thinking about earlier Thai BLs that a beginner could watch, to learn about and appreciate the seme/uke tropes that established the formulas that BBS upended, I've got the following.

SOTUS/SOTUS S/Our Skyy x SOTUS: By now, in 2023/2024, SOTUS is.... gently offensive? But for historical purposes, AND for Bad Buddy-purposes, I think it's a must-watch. SOTUS walked so Bad Buddy could run. It was the first BL by GMMTV, a huge one, and gave birth to the first huge celebrity ship in KristSingto. Singto's Kongpob pursues a hesitant Arthit (Krist), who has a revelation that he's fallen for Kong by the end of the series. SOTUS S and Our Skyy x SOTUS follow their eventual relationship.

VERY IMPORTANTLY! Bad Buddy does a LOT to upend a LOT of what SOTUS put out there, by way of commentary on bullying, on the "gay-for-you" phenomenon -- BBS even featured an actor from SOTUS S who played the father of one of the main characters (Kongpob), and put that dude in the same shirt he wore in SOTUS S!

But for the sake of the seme/uke tropes we're talking about, SOTUS has this in spades. There's problematic hubby/wifey language in SOTUS that's, again, upended in Bad Buddy. But SOTUS is a product of its 2016-time period. The genre has learned a lot by way of revising problematic elements that came with the genre's origins. Whenever I think of SOTUS, I always get a sense of nostalgia for Arthit and Kongpob, because SOTUS gave birth to a LOT of tropes (engineering, beach trips, etc.) that we still see in Thai BLs today, tropes that often give structure and reference to dramas. I like that Bad Buddy honored these tropes while also gently calling them out -- and I think, Non, that if you get your historical knowledge squared away just through the SOTUS franchise, you'll appreciate that BBS/episode 7 that much more.

Love By Chance: LBC aired two years after the original SOTUS came out. Trope-wise, overall, I call LBC an ultimately derivative structured drama, in that it encapsulates really well a lot of the tropes that had been established in Thai BL in years prior. Non, I recommend LBC for its seme/uke pairing in AePete, as the pairing was a classic pursuit, but Pete happened to be out and gay, and had a fear that Ae would face discrimination for being open in his love for Pete. I loved that the show addressed this head-on. The rest of the show is not nearly as up to par as what PerthSaint delivered in their AePete performance, but LBC is well worth watching to see the tropes in high action.

Until We Meet Again: While I am a slavish LOVER of UWMA, this drama has a classic seme/uke pairing in Dean and Pharm, but -- the show allows Pharm as a blushing maiden uke to actually have agency and space for his sexual preferences. The show depicts Pharm in hesitation mode, often, but also allows for Pharm to have open and equal communication with Dean about when Pharm is ready to take things to a next level, without a seme pushing an envelope to move things more quickly than they should.

I Told Sunset About You and I Promised You The Moon: Instead of driving to a classic seme/uke set-up, ITSAY spent much more time in Teh's revelatory and recognition headspace, as he negotiated internally his attraction to Oh-aew. IPYTM allowed us to see into Teh's and Oh's eventual relationship, and established Oh-aew's supremacy as a man in control of his world and his decisions, always fully aware of Teh's attraction to him, but needing time and space to be ready for Teh's chaos. I love thinking about ITSAY and IPYTM as trope-deflectors before the rise of Bad Buddy, and -- there are multiple moments when Bad Buddy talks to ITSAY as well.

All of these dramas are considered classics and are thus on the OGMMTVC, but Non, I am in no way a comprehensive expert on the genre itself. There are elders all around who have watched more than me! I'm wondering if -- for the question of what dramas best established the seme/uke pursuit trope in Thai BLs before Bad Buddy upended that trope -- if @bengiyo, @so-much-yet-to-learn, @absolutebl, and @lurkingshan have thoughts and suggestions.

Non, I hope this helps!

[waitmyturtles]

This post was FANTASTIC: THANK YOU FRIEND @nieves-de-sugui! I am BOOKMARKING this for my OGMMTVC watches (I’m certainly noticing tropes, repeat tropes, and interpretations of tropes in all of the shows I’m watching, and I so appreciate knowing where they stem from!)

BL and it’s Shoujo grandma

In the last few years a lot of people have entered the fandom from different pathways and don’t know its history and origins. This post is an effort to clarify some of the whys and the hows of how the genre and industry came to be in the way they have. In this post I want to talk about BL and its connection to Shoujo manga through their tropes.

We all know to some degree (and if you don’t you will now) that BL came from the more traditional romance manga genre: Shoujo. 

Today, BL is its own independent genre, so many people might not know that a lot of what is characteristic of BL, is an evolution or a trace from its Shoujo grandmother. After all, romance is romance, and our hearts flutter very easily with the same tropes over and over again. 

We must also take into consideration that everything in this life influences each other so the limits between genres will never be cristal clear. There is no clear line between Shoujo and BL… but the ambiguity is part of the charm. 

Please be remiended that this is my own thoughts on the matter. It’s a hypothesis I have come up with based on my readings but do not take it as gospel. Anyone and everyone is welcome to add to this post and correct any errors, or comment their own takes on the topic.

Edit: this got so long I’m gonna put it under the cut

Keep reading

[gunsatthaphan]

"are you hurt?"

[pharawee]

the road is there and so I dare to risk this heart of mine

—THE BOY NEXT WORLD · คนละกาลเวลา · Episode 05

[akacosmic]

Don't forget the all-healing sponge bath!

No one:

Absolutely no one:

Thai BLs: OH NO MY LOVER IS SICK FROM WALKING IN THE RAIN I MUST GO TO HIM

[pointlesscandies]

I think what makes ThamePo so romantic is that their feelings are completely mutual and they both know it.

We don't have one of them chasing the other, or one of them pretending they're not interested, or someone already involved in a relationship. There's no confusion. Instead we have two people who are both at the same place with their feelings. Both of them equally want this relationship and it makes every part of it feel so sweet and special

[heretherebedork]

Sit in his lap and pull him closer until there's nothing closer than your kiss and your heart.

[pigglepiephi]

Gay sex. The full proof way to bring your twin out of a coma! 👩🏻‍❤️‍💋‍👩🏻 👨🏻‍❤️‍💋‍👨🏻 🏳️‍🌈

Ai-oon 🤝 White

[waitmyturtles]

Alright, I have a moment to unwind on this. I really appreciate this dialogue by @serfergs and @bengiyo​ on this topic, as I’ve spent a lot, A LOTTT of time in the recent past in the context of the Thai BL Old GMMTV Challenge thinking about the inclusion and importance of tropes in BLs by means of genre definition -- a genre that was born not even 10 years ago. If you two don’t mind my jumping in for a hot second...

Ben’s last sentence is a wonderful crux to his response -- no matter WHAT is happening in these shows, it has to be done well. A BL doesn’t necessarily need tropes, per se -- I’d argue, from what I’ve learned in the context of the OGMMTVC so far, that the sole core requirement of a BL is that there’s a central romance plot. Otherwise, other tropes can come and go. At least in Thailand, Step By Step is a great example of a recent workplace drama that had a central romance plot -- and it had many of us viewers wondering what ELSE it was, but it was clearly trying to do something else (whether it was a macro criticism of BL fandoms and/or a workplace drama, etc.). But I think SBS’s existence, maybe even A Boss and a Babe (which I haven’t seen), Laws of Attraction (which I haven’t watched yet), Moonlight Chicken, even He’s Coming To Me -- a 2019 BL that left tropes of that period by the wayside and was a truly groundbreaking show by way of dramatic expectations in BLs -- and many more BLs have proved that you don’t need tropes for BLs to be called BLs. Give them the central romance, and BL fandoms will be using the term BL. 

I want to repeat Ben’s point about audiences (BL or otherwise) not caring for gay people and communities. Overall, it seems to me that BLs tend to avoid deep dives into creating truly holistic and deep queer worlds, with queer sex language and coding. Having just watched Jojo Tichakorn’s and Backaof Noppharnach’s Gay OK Bangkok -- a non-BL that depicts the lives of a queer friend cohort -- no BL has come close, or even TRIED to come close, to being as inherently or authentically queer as that show. A lot of BLs feature queer revelations by straight-presenting or straight-identifying individuals, usually against a foil of a queer character who is attracted to the straight protagonist. (He’s Coming To Me, Until We Meet Again, A Tale of Thousand Stars, and even the earlier Make It Right begin to affect that paradigm in Thailand, but it’s not a dominant theme -- of two clearly queer characters coming together, and either recognizing their queerness immediately, or at least negotiating it over the course of the show.)

When I think about the impact of tropes at least on the Thai BLs that I’ve been studying, I’ve found that more than anything else -- the tropes create familiarity and nostalgia. I don’t think the tropes are the requirement for a BL. For instance, I will be reviewing MaxTul’s Manner of Death in a few weeks. When I was considering adding MoD to the OGMMTVC watchlist, back when I reviewed Together With Me, there was some great conversation in the comments about whether or not you’d even call it a BL. I think that’s up for debate! Because -- the romance of that show is not CENTRAL. It’s a murder mystery. I’m gonna write more about this debate in my review, but I did note while I was watching MoD, that while the BL element wasn’t central -- it DID, ACTUALLY (ha!) have BL tropes in the show. So it was actually a touch subversive -- and I thought that was really fucking cool. 

Taking all of these points together, what I want to say is to ultimately emphasize Ben’s point about audiences caring for gay people and queer cohorts. To the point of “more realistic queer characters in adult relationships” -- I just don’t see it happening robustly in mainstream television BLs. I think that’s why a bunch of us were originally super excited for Step By Step, and were ultimately disappointed by the flop of the plot. I think, for Jojo Tichakorn to refer to Gay OK Bangkok in his previews for Only Friends, makes me really fucking excited that a vibe (maybe even an expectation) of more holistic queer media will finally be presented vis à vis established BL shipped pairings of ForceBook and FirstKhao (and the new one in NeoMark). But... I think we have yet to see if Only Friends is actually going to be a BL. I think the term’s being tossed around, but to refer to Only Friends within the genre -- there’s a question mark there, at least for now.

When I think of BL BLs that have come close to having more realistic queer characters in adult relationships -- I think of Moonlight Chicken. I think of A Tale of Thousand Stars. I think of Bed Friend and KinnPorsche. Even Manner of Death can count, if you call it a BL. 

The shows that I think of having more realistic queer characters without the adult requirement are shows and characters like DeanPharm in Until We Meet Again, Third in Theory of Love, Tee and Frame in Make It Right. They’re gaining in number, the guys who identify as gay (or who are not straight-presenting for any portion of a show), but there aren’t a lot of them that get central emphasis as a MAIN protagonist that isn’t doing the chasing (and Tee and Frame shouldn’t even count using that criteria, then). 

I really want to believe -- and I fucking hope, HOPE, HOPE that Only Friends can push this paradigm -- that BLs will become more holistically queer à la Jojo Tichakorn’s non-BL, overtly queer oeuvre. But, capitalistically... I just don’t know how studios and fandoms will ultimately respond to that, and in the end, there will always be a question of whether or not the financials of television play out in the favor of this kind of content that many of us in the adult-aged fandoms would love to see. 

(I only focused on Thai BLs here, but Ben notes Korea and Japan in his response, and one day, I’ll have better information about tropes in those categories to unwind on. One day.)

So I’ve got some thoughts wracking around my brain and I’d love to hear your thoughts. Apologies ahead of time because this is long.

Some background: I’ve been watching BL for about 2 years, consuming content from BL fandom on Tumblr for about a year, and listened to you & Nini’s pod since it came out. So I know a big trend and exciting push is workplace BL and more adult BL characters and relationships. I think it’s really interesting that so many in the fandom favor this trend because I struggle with the presence of the typical BL tropes in stories with queer adults because I see many of the tropes as inherently childish I guess? I mean I think as we all watch BL we have to hold a suspension of disbelief watching two adolescent or fully grown men live out these silly tropes (e.g white towel bath, tripping and falling, etc. (we all know’em by now)). I think that’s why I typically lean toward high school and even college settings because it’s easier to imagine characters in that age range engaging with these types of tropes.

I think the same goes for certain genres too. For example: I had a hard time enjoying KinnPorsche because tonally it was hard to reconcile one scene of rampant violence/death and the next scene Kinn & Porsche walking in the park engaging in all the silly tropes. The romance orientation of BL (to me) does not mix well with Mafia or horror genres because the presence of these tropes create such a weird tonal shift throughout the narrative.

I think I primarily have this trouble with Thai BLs (maybe also Taiwan they just don’t produce nearly as many shows so less to compare) because 1) the specific campy thai style of acting and 2) the fact that Thai BLs pack so many of the same tropes in their shows.

Now all that being said: I’m loving Law of Attraction and I’ve been thinking a lot about why it works for me. So far I don’t think there have been nearly as many tropes as some shows but I also think the melodrama of it all helps too. I mean both Charn and Tinn are very archetypal and Charn is almost a caricature of the archetype. It’s ridiculous and highly entertaining and still works as a BL for me.

Ok all that being said (I’m sorry this is so long) specifically with workplace/adult Thai BL: I see it going one of two main ways to continue to work (for me at least) while they also try to explore different settings, genres, and stories. Either 1) LoA route where it’s very dramatic and the characters are more caricatures and it’s not to be taken too seriously (but it’s still fun and entertaining and has some good themes) or 2) they phase out a lot of the tropes and depict more realistic queer characters in adult relationships. If they go route #2 wouldn’t that just lead to inherently more queer shows? From what I understand many define BL by the inclusion of these tropes and centering the romance in the narrative but I just can’t see how these aspects can continue to exist in more adult oriented stories? Do you think new tropes will emerge in these “office BLs” that will make it continue to “feel” BL without it feeling queer? Don’t get me wrong I’m queer and I love that it seems to be going in that direction but I’m also interested in the history/origins of the Thai BL industry and how they will likely try to continue to please their original base (cis het women) with more mature stories and settings without losing the essence of BL and moving more toward queer shows. Would love to hear any and all your thoughts. I’m thinking so much more about these topics hearing you and Nini on the pod so thank you for fostering these conversations!!

There's a lot going on here, so I'm going to try to pull out some specific things to interrogate.

I know a big trend and exciting push is workplace BL and more adult BL characters and relationships. I think it’s really interesting that so many in the fandom favor this trend because I struggle with the presence of the typical BL tropes in stories with queer adults because I see many of the tropes as inherently childish I guess? I mean I think as we all watch BL we have to hold a suspension of disbelief watching two adolescent or fully grown men live out these silly tropes (e.g white towel bath, tripping and falling, etc. (we all know’em by now)). I think that’s why I typically lean toward high school and even college settings because it’s easier to imagine characters in that age range engaging with these types of tropes.

I'm entering my mid-30s. I'm a bit burnt out on the high school and college stuff. I also work in an office tower as part of a large bureacracy. You'd be surprised how much petty office drama looks like the same shit you dealt with in schools. I also like the notion that even adults can enjoy some of the silly first moments. I dont' like the idea that either we settle down with the first boy we met in high school or college or we just don't exist.

Also, there are lots of tropes entering BL from the genre-blending that I think some viewers just don't recognize. Part of why Korean BL is so important is because quite a few viewers are versed in the narrative structures and story beats of a typical kdrama, and their commentary has been interesting as we get more Korean offerings. I often find that people miss out on the cues in Japanese shows because they didn't grow up on Japanese media like I did.

For example, I was commenting to NiNi last night when we were recording for Tokyo in April is... that one of the things I like so much about second chance romance in BL is the different built-in presumptions compared to straight people. When straight people have a second chance, it's usually because one of them broke up with the other. The relationship ended because of their internal problems. In gay second chance, the relationship was often taken from them by homophobia. In Our Dating Sim, internalized homophobia made Wan run away. Same in Individual Circumstances or The Promise. In Tokyo in April is... the boys are separated by their parents. Their relationship ended against their own wills, so the reunion and second chance is different because of their queer context.

Re: KinnPorsche: The romance orientation of BL (to me) does not mix well with Mafia or horror genres because the presence of these tropes create such a weird tonal shift throughout the narrative.

I don't know. History3: Trapped exists. Tropes are storytelling tools built upon familiar beats that audiences recognize. The pinky touch doesn't belong to BL. It grew out of queer media as a way for boys to privately have a moment of intimacy. Tropes are not inherently good or bad. What matters is how they're used. Do they support the narrative and themes, or do they get in the way?

A lot of folks do not like the Blushing Maiden trope. I am variable. It matters how it's used. I think it makes sense for Pharm in Until We Meet Again. I think it makes some sense for Minato in Minato's Laundromat. I don't really like it in Heartstopper 2. Elle gets a Heel Pop in Heartstopper 2, and it's what she deserves!

As for a mafia story, putting a romance story in a crime drama often is used to ramp up the sense of tragedy because the romance can't succeed inside the rules of the crime world.

specifically with workplace/adult Thai BL: I see it going one of two main ways to continue to work (for me at least) while they also try to explore different settings, genres, and stories. Either 1) LoA route where it’s very dramatic and the characters are more caricatures and it’s not to be taken too seriously (but it’s still fun and entertaining and has some good themes) or 2) they phase out a lot of the tropes and depict more realistic queer characters in adult relationships.

I don't like binaries like this. If you had asked me at 15 when I started watching Degrassi and then sneaking around to watch other gay shit if we'd have what we call BL now, I would not have believed you.

As for Laws of Attraction, I don't know that calling the characters caricatures is accurate either. They're behaving under the surreal rules of a lakorn, a telenovela, or a soap opera. There are exaggerations in the characters, but they all make sense and are obeying the rules of their world.

As for the question about BL getting more gay, @absolutebl has covered this already. Audiences do not care about gay people. Some of the conventions of surreal BL or the bubble are why they signed up. People did not watch POSE, they do not watch stuff like For the Boys, I haven't seen anyone on Tumblr talk about Sort Of, we didn't get an explosion of new gay shit after Moonlight or Call Me By Your Name. All I wanna say is that they don't really care about us.

I think there is room for BL to genre blend and play with broader romance or dramatic themes, à la La Pluie or Moonlight Chicken. However, I'll remind you that folks don't always like that (see I Promised You The Moon).

I think the biggest thing to recognize is that, while BL does have some of its own tropes from origin yaoi or modern Thai BL, BL shares a lot of DNA with romance as a whole. Don't get lost in the sauce of the classification war. Watching BL to check off boxes about what's recognized or not as the primary goal feels like a distraction.

Besides, if you're enjoying Laws of Attraction, that show has done nothing new. It's literally just using familiar lakorn and romance beats. Humans have been telling stories for at least 20,000 years. It doesn't have to be new to be good. It just needs to be done well.

[waitmyturtles]

Turtles Catches Up With Old GMMTV: Manner of Death, and What is a BL Edition

[What’s going on here? After joining Tumblr and discovering Thai BLs through KinnPorsche in 2022, I began watching GMMTV’s new offerings -- and realized that I had a lot of history to catch up on, to appreciate the more recent works that I was delving into. From tropes to BL frameworks, what we’re watching now hails from somewhere, and I’m learning about Thai BL's history through what I’m calling the Old GMMTV Challenge (OGMMTVC). Starting with recommendations from @absolutebl on their post regarding how GMMTV is correcting for its mistakes with its shows today, I’ve made an expansive list to get me through a condensed history of essential/classic/significant Thai BLs produced by GMMTV and many other BL studios. My watchlist, pasted below, lists what I’ve watched and what’s upcoming, along with the reviews I’ve written so far. Today, I cover Manner of Death, a MaxTul crime show that leads us to wonder if we can call it a true BL.]

FINALLY! Yeeeeeeah! I’ve waited a while to get this one out, and I’m so excited to finally drop this review: this is going to be a fun one. Let’s pour one out for the retired homey, Tul Pakorn, as I dive into Manner of Death! (MaxTul after a weekend of PerthChimon and FirstKhao, huh? GIMME!)

So, first things first: I cannot remember who exactly recommended Manner of Death for inclusion on the OGMMTVC watchlist. I APOLOGIZE. I am going to GUESS that it was a combo of @manogirl and @miscellar (and if I’m wrong, friends, please forgive me, and whoever really suggested it, give yourselves flowers in the comments so I can give you a high-five!). In any case, though, as I’ve mentioned previously, @manogirl gets the OGMMTVC Trophy for Hyping a Homey To One of the Best Ships Ever, for real -- MG, your repping on MaxTul has paid DIVIDENDS in my life, DIVIDENDS! I LOVE MAXTUL. I love them, your honors! And they are important, historically, for reasons illuminated below. 

Okay, ha, with that out of the way, Manner of Death as a show gets included on the OGMMTVC list because, as was discussed in the comments of my review of Together With Me, MoD may or may not be a BL by way of the “rules” of the genre. The majority commentary on MoD established that MoD was a show that had BL elements in a crime genre-based show that served as an influence for future genre shows in Not Me and KinnPorsche. 

Now, I will note, during my MoD liveblogging, that @true-unicorn-queen came thru to say -- actually, it IS a BL (thank you, TUQ, for jumping in the comments!). I am really going to enjoy digging into this, and I think there are some good examples that serve as evidence on both sides of the argument. A little outline to help us out, maestro:

1) The frame of this piece is going to center on whether we call MoD a “genre” show of another kind that’s not TECHNICALLY a BL (like a crime story, or a workplace drama), vs. whether we call it a BL because there were quite a few BL tropes in it, and I’ll also talk about 2) Why I think this argument works by way of who worked on this show (and who may have influenced this show), 3) The general excellence of the acting of this show (...okay, we’ll gently poke Tul a bit, ha), and 4) Touching a bit on the conversation of whether or not MoD impacted future genre shows,

along with some other floating bits about MoD and its wild ending, ha.

Off the bat, I think this show worked because it played with successful elements of BOTH the crime genre AND the BL genre. It was like, fusion television. The actual twists and turns of the mystery (I will try to not give away too much if you haven’t seen it yet!) were FABULOUSLY done, and I love suspecting everyone during stories like this. Hell, I was suspecting Oat, for heaven’s sake!

So regarding the is-it-a-BL-or-not conversation: I’m not a person who dabbles in binaries and hardcore definitions. I really think art is best when it is dynamic and NOT definitively binary -- when art is influenced by many things, by many elements, by many tentacles. (You’ll notice that this is why I LOVE this OGMMTVC project.) I really felt that I enjoyed MoD, purely as a fan, in part because this show used the best elements of the crime and BL genres to construct a story that was exciting, that was SMART, that was driven and crisp -- and most importantly, that was not DRAGGED or HELD BACK by EXPECTATIONS of EITHER genre. 

I myself would not call MoD a BL, in part because I don’t want to set up expectations that it needed to MEET certain elements of the genre in order to CALL IT a BL. BUT -- to @true-unicorn-queen‘s point -- maybe I GET to call it a BL, because it used BL tropes so well? I’m not going to quibble in this too much (and honestly, if folks have thoughts on this, jump into the comments, because I think the conversation around this will automatically be fascinating and interesting).

I want to also add that MoD shares many elements with another well-known crime show that is also not a BL, but arguably BL-adjacent -- Jojo Tichakorn’s 3 Will Be Free. 3 Will Be Free is ABSOLUTELY NOT a BL. But what 3WBF established -- on GMMTV! -- was a show that was not CENTERED in queerness or a queer romance story. It was, instead, INCLUSIVE of queerness as a GIVEN of the environment and community in which the show was set. I thought this was groundbreaking for the GMMTV network.

Like I wrote recently about YYY, and akin to 3WBF, Manner of Death, very importantly in its writing, did not hew to a NEED to CENTER the burgeoning queer romance between Bun and Tan -- which I think many would argue is a necessary element of a BL. Their relationship was an important ELEMENT to the show, but it wasn’t a CENTER of the show -- until the end, when we got a bunch of fan service flowers..... and fuckin’ gun whips with a proposal, but let’s leave that alone for another sec, HA. 

I really liked YYY for its macro-level commentary about what BL creators and performers face, by way of pressure, of NEEDING to include and/or CENTER a relationship in a BL. The character of Porpla served as a symbol of that internal and external pressure on BL shows to be ABOUT the romance.

Manner of Death just... didn’t deal with that. The center of the story was: who killed Jane? That was it. It was a murder mystery, first and foremost, with two dudes falling in love as a side story. 

I’m shaking my head in wonder at this, because Manner of Death did the love side story much differently than 3WBF, all while paying homage and respect to the inclusion of queerness within the show itself. How did the show do it? 

As y’all know from my MoD liveblogging, I totally marveled at how WELL this show included some important BL tropes. We had tender gay uncles AND a side couple IN THE SAME SCENE! ThatSorn were a NATURAL side couple, great chemistry, GREAT comedy, and BunTan totally knew what was up with them. Utterly cute! And I cackled at some other tropes, including BunTan choosing to MAKE OUT instead of checking the LAPTOP THEY STOLE from BUSTING A CAR WINDOW, lol. 

The inclusion of these tropes was done VERY well, VERY sophisticatedly. Unlike 3WBF, where I did not expect to see BL tropes -- because 3WBF’s crime story was clearly not a home for BL tropes, at all -- I LOVED SEEING THEM in Manner of Death. It was like seeing old friends again. 

I wanted to know what was up with that. So to MDL I went, and found that Title Nirattisai is MoD’s screenwriter. I knew I knew that name, and I went a-clickin’, and went -- AHHHH. 

Title is the screenwriter of He’s Coming To Me. THE SCREENWRITER OF *HE’S COMING TO ME!!!* And he, along with Au Kornprom, wrote Dark Blue Kiss. As we know -- they are both Aof Noppharnach shows of the highest order.

WELL, WELL, FUCKING WELL! That solves THAT mystery. Why is the writing of Manner of Death so great? Why does it balance a crime genre story so well with the very best of BL tropes?

It’s because we have a writer in Title who defied and/or played with BL tropes in HCTM and DBK. HCTM, as I’ve previously established, was WELL AHEAD OF ITS TIME by way of storytelling, mood, and BL genre subversion. DBK was the first GMMTV BL to focus on an ONGOING and ESTABLISHED relationship -- à la Still 2gether, later in GMMTV’s history, but a decision that goes against the grain of your usual BL assumptions in seeing a relationship BEGIN, complete with flirtation, with longing, with yearning, etc.

Title is a screenwriter who is CLEARLY comfortable with playing outside of the boundaries of BL expectations -- HCTM is DEFINITIVE of that position. Again, I wondered broadly why Manner of Death was just such a GOOD and watchable show. It’s because its writing was flowing, seamless, and SMART. And I think Title knew, that by centering the show in CRIME and MYSTERY, as opposed to romance, that he could actually play around with expectations of BL romance in a new and singular way. 

This is some cool-ass shit. 3WBF established that you could lead a crime story and include queerness. Manner of Death took this a touch further, and brought BACK the very best of BL tropes within a crime frame. BRILLIANT. And, listen. I have He’s Coming To Me on the OGMMTVC list as a BL. If we continue to extrapolate this argument, then -- I might contradict myself, and agree with @true-unicorn-queen, and maybe call Manner of Death a BL. In the end, I’ll give this argument to whoever wants to pick it up, because for me -- MoD was just a good damn SHOW that used mystery, BL, and romance tremendously well in its composition. And that’s why I think it was so successful. 

(One last tiny note on this: let me not forget to note the director of Manner of Death is Ma-Deaw Chookiat, the director and screenwriter of Dew the Movie. He, like Title, is certainly someone who plays on the very interesting fringes and intersections of the BL genre.)

For my pure simpy pleasure, I also thought MaxTul were way better in this than in Together With Me, Max especially. (As I’ve now established -- MoD was an excellent show itself, with the script of Together With Me being shaky at best, except for dear Yihwa.) I previously noted that there were some little fumbles in Tul’s acting in MoD, but nothing that kept me from enjoying the show. But Max was REALLY damn good. AND: listen. I mean, I love how jocky both of these guys were in the show, but Max REALLY did fighting and gun stuff and like, physical crime stuff VERY well. It was exciting -- he didn’t seem like he was doing it for the first time. If the show felt like it nailed CBS primetime shit like, I dunno, Hawaii Five-O or whatever, by way of its fight scenes, then I call that a win. I CLEARLY don’t normally watch those kinds of shows, HA, but I’ll watch a crime show if it has MaxTul in it, dammit!

Really quickly, on the point about whether or not MoD had an influence on future genre shows like Not Me and KinnPorsche: I will await my Not Me viewing, and my rewatch of KP, to make that final judgement, and I promise I’ll include MoD analyses in both those reviews. I think this is an important conversation to have continuing over the course of the OGMMTVC project, because aligned with this conversation is still a lingering awareness and analysis of the pressures that BL creators face and struggle with vis à vis romance, as I mentioned before. This is a struggle that continues to this day, as we most recently saw in Tee Bundit’s Step By Step, and whether or not that show was meant to be a romance, a workplace drama, and/or a macro-commentary on BL and BL expectations. I’ll be watching Not Me for the first time -- and I was not aware, at all, of any of these kinds of pressures when I first watched KinnPorsche. I’d like to go in fresh with both shows to be aware of what they WEREN’T doing by way of tropes to create very unique art, and to understand if and how Manner of Death opened that door.

One other floating point: à la A Tale of Thousand Stars that follows Manner of Death, MoD is centered in the rural town of Viang Phra Mork, showing off Thailand’s gorgeous northern scenery. I actually didn’t fully put this together until I had moved on to ATOTS on the OGMMTVC list, but as I was watching MoD, I loved that over the course of the show, many of the characters, especially Rungtiva, were shown wearing more ethnic Thai-inspired clothes, just like Khama and the villagers in ATOTS. I love that over the course of the OGMMTVC, we have gotten to see more and more deep dives into Thailand and Thai culture (Moonlight Chicken being another excellent example). Y’all who follow my blog know that I’m particularly interested in tracking Thai politics and Thai cuisine in our shows, and any bits of Thai culture that I can glom onto in our shows is so welcome. I loved it, and I’ll refer more to this in my ATOTS rewatch review. 

Finally, oh finally: MoD’s ending, HA. FIRST OFF: I mean, THE WEDDING, GAH. COME ONNNN. What a lovely farewell to MaxTul. At that point, I think it was assumed that we’d see them one more time in Transplant, but alas. But I really loved that we got to see BunTan in full-circle commitment.

And that proposal. Y’all. Y’ALL. I. WAS. DYING. So not only did that proposal NOT NEED GUN WHIPS, LOL, but as @kattahj pointed out to me, the proposal included GIVING SORAWIT/SORN A GUN, which, HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. 

Listen. I didn’t get into the actual deep meat of the show itself, of the UTTER success of the mystery story, in part because I don’t want to give it away for folks who haven’t watched it yet. But -- if you haven’t watched it, please watch Manner of Death. It’s a wonderful break from the BL norm, done absolutely wonderfully by a stellar screenwriter in Title, acted very well by Max, acted very attractively by MaxTul, and the supporting cast was spot on. I know I’ll be checking out Triage at some point to say my final-final farewell to Tul Pakorn, and I wish him all the very best in his next career. We’ll see Max and Toptap next in The Outing, and while that show looks -- confusing? -- I’ll definitely be following it for Max, to see what’s next up in his career. (I hope his health is doing better.) MoD kicked ass, with that classic MaxTul heat, crime, intrigue, AND romance, and it was an utterly successful show that’s absolutely worth celebrating.

[We’re truckin’! I’m making process on my review queue: we have my A Tale of Thousand Stars rewatch review dropping next week, with Lovely Writer after that, and then a double-review of Last Twilight in Phuket and I Promised You The Moon. I’m also going to squeeze in a review of The Warp Effect on Thursday for that Only Friends-flava.

Not Me, 55:15 Never Too Late, and Bad Buddy/Our Skyy 2 rewatch on the horizon. Boom boom boom!

List below. As ever, feedback to ya gal is welcome!

1) The Love of Siam (2007) (movie) (review here) 2) My Bromance (2014) (movie) (review here) 3) Love Sick and Love Sick 2 (2014 and 2015) (review here) 4) Gay OK Bangkok Season 1 (2016) (a non-BL queer series directed by Jojo Tichakorn and written by Aof Noppharnach) (review here) 5) Make It Right (2016) (review here) 6) SOTUS (2016-2017) (review here) 7) Gay OK Bangkok Season 2 (2017) (a non-BL queer series directed by Jojo Tichakorn and written by Aof Noppharnach) (review here) 8) Make It Right 2 (2017) (review here) 9) Together With Me (2017) (review here) 10) SOTUS S/Our Skyy x SOTUS (2017-2018) (review here) 11) Love By Chance (2018) (review here) 12) Kiss Me Again: PeteKao cuts (2018) (no review) 13) He’s Coming To Me (2019) (review here) 14) Dark Blue Kiss (2019) and Our Skyy x Kiss Me Again (2018) (review here) 15) TharnType (2019-2020) (review here) 16) Senior Secret Love: Puppy Honey (OffGun BL cuts) (2016 and 2017) (no review) 17) Theory of Love (2019) (review here) 18) 3 Will Be Free (2019) (a non-BL and an important harbinger of things to come in 2019 and beyond re: Jojo Tichakorn pushing queer content in non-BLs) (review here) 19) Dew the Movie (2019) (review here) 20) Until We Meet Again (2019-2020) (review here) 21) 2gether (2020) and Still 2gether (2020) (review here) 22) I Told Sunset About You (2020) (review here) 23) YYY (2020, out of chronological order) (review here) 24) Manner of Death (2020-2021) (not a true BL, but a MaxTul queer/gay romance set within a genre-based show that likely influenced Not Me and KinnPorsche)  25) A Tale of Thousand Stars (2021) (review here) 26) A Tale of Thousand Stars (2021) OGMMTVC Fastest Rewatch Known To Humankind For The Sake Of Rewatching Our Skyy 2 x BBS x ATOTS (review coming) 27) Lovely Writer (2021) (review coming) 28) Last Twilight in Phuket (2021) (the mini-special before IPYTM) (review coming) 29) I Promised You the Moon (2021) (review coming) 30) Not Me (2021-2022) 31) Bad Buddy (2021-2022) (thesis here) 32) 55:15 Never Too Late (2021-2022) (not a BL, but a GMMTV drama that features a macro BL storyline about shipper culture and the BL industry) 33) Bad Buddy (2021-2022) and Our Skyy 2 x BBS x ATOTS (2023) OGMMTVC Rewatch 34) Secret Crush On You (2022) [watching for Cheewin’s trajectory of studying queer joy from Make It Right (high school), to SCOY (college), to Bed Friend (working adults)] 35) KinnPorsche (2022) (tag here) 36) KinnPorsche (2022) OGMMTVC Fastest Rewatch Known To Humankind For The Sake of Re-Analyzing the KP Cultural Zeitgeist 37) The Eclipse (2022) (tag here) 38) GAP (2022-2023) (Thailand’s first GL) 39) My School President (2022-2023) and Our Skyy 2 x My School President (2023) 40) Moonlight Chicken (2023) (tag here) 41) Bed Friend (2023) (tag here) (Cheewin’s latest show, depicting a queer joy journey among working adults) 42) Be My Favorite (2023) (tag here) (I’m including this for BMF’s sophisticated commentary on Krist’s career past as a BL icon) 43) Only Friends (2023)]

[chicademartinica]

Aof when I catch you Aof WHEN I CATCH YOU !

[nabi-unveiled]

When others talk about "bringing back romance" or "old fashioned romance", they mean the sweet interludes of ThamePo.

When I talk about "bringing back romance" or "old fashioned romance", I mean throwing the money back when the parents try to pay you off.

We are not the same.

[ppeonppeonhan]

My new favorite trope: Pulling on Ties

I want nothing more than for Gun to yank on Yotha's tie.

Johan walked so you could run baby!!!

[babybison]

the one where we're all kram