#telemachus honestly deserves better

[oddyseye]

Imagine you’re Telemachus.

Go ahead, picture it. You’re a kid growing up on an island where your dad is literally a living legend, but he’s been MIA your entire life. Twenty years of being “the son of Odysseus’’ and having no idea what that even means. Your mother constantly compares you to a guy you’ve never met, the suitors trash your house, eat your food, and openly plan your mom’s wedding like you’re not even there. Your own people think you’re too green, too weak, too not your father to do anything about it. One day, Athena shows up in disguise (because gods love a good mask) and tells you to stop moping around and go find news of your father. So, you set sail with no real plan, no real power, and a whole lot of unresolved resentment. You brave the seas, deal with cryptic kings, and what do you find? Nothing concrete, just more stories about how amazing Odysseus is. And then, just when you’re starting to think you’ve wasted your time, he shows up. But he turns out to be a killing machine, and you’re in the middle of the bloodbath, trying to keep up while the suitors are out for your head. At one point, they literally use you as bait to corner the king. Your father.

The first words you hear him say? Not to you, but to his enemies: “My mercy has long since drowned. It died to bring me home.’’ Imagine, how does that sit with you? You’ve spent your whole life dreaming of this reunion, hoping for a lovely father, a protector, maybe even a friend. Instead, you get this: a stranger soaked in blood, declaring that mercy — the thing you’ve clung to, the thing your mother embodies — has no place in his world.

But then he turns to you.

And suddenly, everything shifts. He looks at you, really looks at you, and says, “Oh my boy, the sweetest joy I’ve known.’’ The walls he’s built, the hardness he’s worn like armor, crack just enough for you to see the man underneath. For the first time, he’s not Odysseus the warrior, or Odysseus, the son of Laertes. He’s your father. He is Odysseus, father of dear Telemachus.

It doesn’t erase the pain, the years of absence, or the violence you just witnessed. But for that moment, it doesn’t matter. Because for the first time in your life, the man who’s been a myth, a memory, and a mystery, is standing in front of you — and he’s calling you his joy.

[wukyma]

yeeop hi, it’s me, the loser who’s writing fanfic for your ghost antinous au! i’ve got some vague and ideas and a decent amount of words done but i saw one of your posts saying you’re writing a document for the au?

i’m thinking i’ll be waiting for that before i make any other big writing decisions, i’m very excited for it :D

Ahhh sorry for the confusion, that was for another thing :'D

Regardless, I do have some ideas for ghost Antinous if you're interested!

(sorry for mentioning but u said u were interested too so @bb-bugspot)

Yappery under the cut 👇

You know that Hermes was also a guide for the dead? One of his "jobs" was bringing souls of mortals to the underworld – the 108 suitors as well, apparently, and whether they were buried appropriately or not doesn't really matter here

What happens? A certain ghosty someone (Antinous) spends the whole day trying to strangle both Odysseus and Telemachus (spoiler: he can't), missing Hermes' arrival to Ithaca like a loser ☆ﾟ⁠.⁠*⁠･⁠｡ﾟ

Hermes bringing a hoard of souls to the underworld: let's see... One, two, three, four... ten......... nah I'm too lazy to do that, bye idiots *flies away*

Now we have Antinous, stuck in the mortal plane where no one can see him, having to watch the happy and thriving family, annoyed, jealous, and alone. Like he deserves tbh

And since I was leaning into comedy in the beginning, Telemachus starting to hear (and later even see; idk maybe Hermes' heritage activated or smth) him is a source of all kinds of moments where he has to act like ✨ everything is fine ✨ while there's an angry dude screaming in his ear "PAY ATTENTION TO ME"

If we sprinkle it with sad vibes then Antinous is pestering Telemachus for two reasons:

he hates him and has nothing better to do anyway

it's the closest thing to human interaction he has now lol

Basically talking to (read: pissing off) Telemachus is the only entertainment, and as time passes he just becomes something of a voice of conscience but diametrically opposed, and by that I mean:

"Who does this prick think he is?! Kick his ass Tele KICK HIS ASS"

"Wow, loser (Peisistratus probably idk) actually likes you, what a moron. You too btw"

Probably the first thing Telemachus sees in the morning too,, poor boy; maybe Antinous even tries to trip him up from time to time (they can't touch each other but small things like these work), invades his personal space, swipes off random objects from their designated surfaces, talks shit during family dinners (Telemachus actually thinks some of it is funny but he won't say that out loud, nuh uh) Penelope and Odysseus are a bit concerned about the strange expressions he makes XD

That dynamic goes on until the moment Antinous says a particularly foul joke and Telemachus slaps him (not really hoping for anything since every time he tried his hand just went through); the hit lands, both are like wtf just happened??? That puts an end to random chaos because (1) Telemachus is older now and will/can beat the shit out of him (2) Antinous just doesn't find the same satisfaction in annoying the prince like before, for some reason

So they just....... come to accept the situation and stick together like the weirdest pair of mismatched socks. END

(one more crumb of comedy material: Antinous now drops random objects on people's heads when they disrespect Telemachus or some similar thing)

That's it! There's one important thing I wanna say tho,, what I wrote is just my vision, if you had something else in mind and it doesn't align with this don't worry too much!! I want to know your ideas as well, and honestly, there wasn't a lot of thought put in cooking up an actual plot on my side; write whatever you feel like writing, I'm already happy those sketches inspired somebody X)

(And! Guys!! A bit of disclaimer: it's not like I'm sticking fingers in ears and going lalalalalala when it comes to Antinous' canon jerk behavior, or justify him – this whole au retains ✨funsies rights✨, don't take it too seriously please)

[chadrickmd]

Waiting for the break down 😬 I've seen the animations

What a girl boss, the suitors are thirsty as hell. Anna Lea's voice is amazing though, wow. (Everyone in this is amazing)

I've been waiting for the full version of Hold Them Down forever. I hate Antinous, but my god Ayron Alexander is a great singer. Jesus, while Thunderbringer made me mildly uncomfortable, these lyrics scared me.

Squelch... (deserved)

Buh bye any sense of sanity Odysseus had...... kill those bastards. (Penelope is a lucky woman.) Why would they hurt Telemachus, that's such a bad idea, ĥaha they're fucked.

"MERCY!" AGHHHhhhhh, Odyssey might be my new favorite song.

2 more.. hope nothing happens

THE FUCKING WHIPLASH, I CAN'T HELP BUT WONDER IS SO SWEET COMPARED TO THE LAST ONE.

Hi, Athena.

Penelopeeeeeeeee, your husband is whippeddddddd.

She waited 20 years for you bro, what do you expect? For her to dump you now?

I get it girl, gotta make sure it's not a suitor in disguise, but man he sounds pissed (makes the song better honestly.)

Awwwwwwwww, how lovely (ignoring the bodies around the palace though).

It's over... 😟

Final thoughts? I FUCKING LOVED IT. I'm honestly so glad I waited till the Ithaca Saga to listen, because it was probably my favorite (not sure I'm mentally okay after it though). Unhinged Odysseus is the best lmao.

[leynaeithnea]

I didnt get an ask for this BUT WE'RE BACK

my Wisdom saga reaction/analysis!!!!!

26. Legendary

TELEMACHUS MY BOYYYY

THE MELODY AT THE BEGINNING OF LEGENDARY IS SO COOL

the instruments aaah, lowkey obssessed

"its jus tme myself and i" perimedes would like u

"living in this world you left behind".........this song makes oyu think so much about what life has been in Ithica in those years since Odysseus had to leave, he was loved, he is *King*, AH

"dreaming of all these monster, that ill never to get to fight" better this way, u dont wanna end up like your daddy

"but boy i wish i could so i could bring the world some light" BABY BOY

"Cause I'm stuck with your stories, but no clue who you are And no idea if you're dead or just too far" his mother wouldve told him so many stories :aniTears:

"Somebody tell me, come and give me a sign if I fight those monsters, is it you I'll find?" PLS HE jusT WANTS TO FIND HIS DAD GIVE THIS MAN HIS FATHER

"If so, then give me sirens and a cyclops Give me giants and a hydra" hes just naming every monster he can think of of the myths he grew up with

"I know life and fate are scary but I wanna be legendary" U GO BOY; I LOVE YOU, also such a mood

"I'll fight the harpies and chimeras, the Minotaur, even Cerberus I know life and fate are scary but I wanna be l-l-l-l-legendary"....yea same like the two parts before, any monster he can think of, he gotta be one of us kids who read a lot

THEN The droppp in his voice, HE SOUNDS SO SCARED

"There are strangers in our halls" That must be TERRIFYING, just imagine that, dozens of men in your home just prying on your mother and youre too young to do anything rly

"Trying to win the heart of my mom, but she is standing tall" THAT VOCAL PERFORMANCE, W FOR PENELOPE; GIRLBOSS

"108 old faces of men who call me small" EW; 108 IS SO MANY BRO; SO MANY????? Also "old faces" ISJGSEIGJ "who call me small" boy, i feel so bad for you

"They keep taking space and it's not much longer we can stall" !!!! HES WORKING WITH HIS MOTHER TRYING TO HOLD THEM OFF; AH AAAAH, also fuck them, leave their home alone, god he must feel so unsafe in his own home :screams:

"'Cause they're getting impatient, dangerous too" oh no :( so scared lil boy

"And I would fight them if I was half as strong as you" HE LOOKS UP TO HIM SO MUCH AH

"Somebody help me, come and give me the strength Can I do whatever it takes to keep my mom safe?" HES ALSO A MOMMY BOY; AND HONESTLY GOOD FOR HIM; STAND BY HER SIDE; U GO BOY, 🥹

Chrous SLAPs

"Where is he? Where is the man who'll have you to wife? " bitch stay away (also cut song reference!)

"Where is he? Where is the man with whom you'll spend your life?" HE IS ON His WAY HOme SO STAY THE FUCK AWAYYYYYYYY ARGG ILL FIGHT U

"Cause it's been 20 years, 20 years" 20 FUCKING YEARS??? THATS AS OLD AS I AM (and telemachus for that measure, same age, yay!) BUT BRO IMAGINE WAITING FOR YOUR HUSBAND TO COME HOME FOR 20 YEARS; PENELOPE X ODY OTP; PENELOPE FIGHTING OFF 108 SUITORS FOR 20 YEARS AND ODY FIGHTING OF *GODS* Trying TO TRAP AND USE AND KEEP HIM, THEY DESERVE EACH OTHER

"And we still have no king" >:) >:) imagine an island without leader for 20 years oh boy h boy, the power vacuum, 108 people who want to take his place

"Give me a chance, a single opportunity and I'll overcome these obstacles and scrutiny and-" HE WANTS TO SO BADLY he juST DOESNT KNOW HOW AND WHEre TO START BC AH, also the music sounds like he just tries to sneak around his palace, to not get caught by the suitors, dodging and on guard, i can just imagine him ducking his head and looking at every corner for smth danger-

"Boy".......that slapped hard, FUCK YOU ANTINOUS (hi perimedes :) )

"When's your tramp of a mother gonna choose a new husband?" FUCK YOU STAY AWAY (the dELIVERY)

"OoooOOoh" we have a new choir! the crew is ded but we have the suitors now hah, ill take it, love me some choir responses

"Why don't you open her room so we can have fun with her?" THE AUDACITY? WHORE FUCKING BASTARD STAY THE FUCK AWAY

"Dont you dare, call my mother a tramp" U GO BOY; TELL HIM (be careful, dont get hurt) THE VOCAL DELIVERY OF THAT LINE IS SO gOOD

"OoooOOoh" chiorr

" I just did, Whatchu gonna do about it, champ?" FUCK OFF ANTINOUS, DONT BE SO SMUG FUCK U

"Somebody tell me, Come and give me a sign, If I fight this monster, Is it you I'll find?" u desrve your dad so much, he'll come home, promise...promise....hold on, be stronk, u got this boy, also "this monster" its none from your stories, no this is real, its worse its right infront of you AH

Sorry for the swearing :") AH I LOVE THIS SONG SO MUCH, ONE OF MY FAVS FOR SURE (...we'll come back after recency bias but i dont think itll change)

EDIT: DANGER MOTIF WHEN ANTINOUNS JOINS IN!!!!! (are there more? im new to this PLS TELL ME)

@lorethebookworm

[winterspellsfrozenkit]

Oh God

Their are other ways is out

I was really hoping Jay wouldn’t go the route he did but he did :(

I love the music behind the part where Odysseus turns Searcy down but on the other hand… He completely completely erased the part where Odysseus was straight up SA’d

I… Jay I love you, BUT WHYYYY

So I listened to ""There Are Other Ways" and I have three theories to WHY Jay changed it to Odysseus breaking down and turning down Circe. 1. The year long timeskip was difficult to explain, 2. Sexual coercion/abuse is NEVER a comfy subject and he might've been worried about not handling it well, and 3. It helps ensure people understand Odysseus LOVES Penelope. Let's me explain:

Reason 1. The year long time skip is difficult to explain: In the Odyssey, we don't know what happened while Odysseus and his men stayed on Circe's island for a year, just that they were resting and recovering, but the men have to remind Odysseus about going home which makes me think something happened to make Odysseus either forget or become wary to leave, which is odd because Penelope and Telemachus are his big drive, so not wanting to leave immediately is out of character for him OR the men weren't going to move until they were ready and he was waiting for them.

Reason 2. Sexual coercion and abuse are really difficult to handle: When Hazbin Hotel snippets got leaked, everyone flipped out on Vivziepop for part of the Poison song that got leaked. Keep in mind that Vivziepop was a victim of abuse and parts of Angel's story with Valentino was pulled from her past with her toxic ex. Even so, people flipped out on her on social media for the leak, saying she was making light or not showing how awful sexual abuse is, but when Poison came out in full, people saw it really was showing the ugliness and horror of the situation. Circe's situation is more coercive and coercive situations are awful in their own right because they give the illusion of choice to the point people will blame the victim because "Well, why did they say yes? They could've said no." because people don't see or recognize the coercion. As a result, Jay might've been wary about handling the situation poorly or how fans would react. It does show the insidious nature of coercion, having Odysseus is agreeing there's no puppet, but he has to say that to get his men back and by having him breakdown and say "I can't!", it shows how much this is actually hurting him. Epic doesn't have accompanying visuals in the way Poison does, so showing how much being pushed to sleep with Circe had harmed Odysseus is really difficult with just dialogue alone.

Reason 3. It helps ensure people understand Odysseus LOVES Penelope. If you go around Tumblr, you'll see SO MANY PEOPLE BLAME ODYSSEUS FOR CIRCE AND CALYPSO. They claim Penelope deserves better than Odysseus, ignoring the sexual coercion and rape that happened to him. They shame him and say he claimed to love his wife, but slept with two other women the first chance he got. By choosing to have Odysseus breakdown at the idea of being pushed to sleep with Circe, it attacks that idea that Odysseus would choose to cheat on Penelope. It shows the true heart of Odysseus: the man who went to woo Helen of Troy, but decided her cousin, Penelope, was who he wanted to marry; the man who risked becoming an oath-breaker to stay with his wife and infant son when he was called to war; the man who didn't stay with Circe and refused immortality and staying with Calypso to go home to his mortal wife.

Adaptations are difficult. I wouldn't say it was a complete erasure, because it leads up to it, but just has Odysseus breakdown before anything happened. Honestly, I'm not sure how I feel about it, because Odysseus was a victim and that shouldn't be forgotten, but I do think the song drove home that emotional impact this situation had on Odysseus in that this situation was harmful to Odysseus and that he wouldn't choose to cheat which is important. I'm a writer, not a song writer, but a writer and the idea of tackling the complex emotions of that situation and all the effects it has on a victim in one song is daunting. It's why a lot of people choose to avoid depicting situations of coercion and abuse. There's so many complex emotions tied up in situations like this and how do you accurately depict that in one song that has no visuals and is only dialogue? How do you explain the emotional pain and feelings of helplessness a victim is going through? What emotion is going to be the main one coming from the victim? Grief? Guilt? Rage? Fear? Which is more important: the event itself happening or the emotional impact?

Jay might've not gone fully into the event, but he did show the emotional impact and how much this situation hurt Odysseus with him breaking down and begging Circe to grant him and his men mercy. He showed Odysseus struggling with what he had to do to save his men. Comparing to most adaptations, this one actually does show some of the emotional pain Odysseus must've had in the situation, rather than painting it as Odysseus romancing Circe or cheating on Penelope. It's not perfect, but it gives Odysseus more understanding in the situation than most adaptations do, so I'm relieved and grateful for that.

[gareleia]

THE KNITTING SAGA BUT HERMES IS A DUMMY

update: my co-writer friend FINALLY got a tumblr account, so I can tag them now!!

previously: part 1 part 2 part 3

next: part 5

m'kay, so, we've talked about Athena & Telemachus' issues. now let's touch on Hermes, because a Diva™ like him deserves his own post. and also because this had been sitting in my notes for so long i've genuinely forgotten about it (i'd say that it's what translating a musical does to you, but honestly my attention span is just shit)

now, as much as I love Soft Boi!Hermes, I even more so love prankster Hermes who doesn't really recognize personal boundaries or the meaning of 'too far'. he's the guy who'll commit to the bit so far, he'll commit mass murder with a Tee-Hee and genuinely wonder what has got everyone so upset.

kid!Telemachus, holding a cup of poison: grandpa, are you sure it's a good idea? I'm scared… Hermes, laughing his ass off in the corner: of course I'm sure, champ! it'll be hilarious! good ol' game of Ithacean Roulette! now dump it into the wine, let's see who we'll get this time!

at the same time, he's not selfish. he's very keen on doing things for the people he likes, and he cares enough to know when someone is distressed. he, as a god, is just so removed from traditional human morality that casual acts of cruelty are perfectly acceptable to him, while, for example, breaking an oath is a horrible sin.

think blue and orange morality stuff.

telemachus, outraged: …murdered his own family, can you imagine? hermes, equally outraged: I know, right? he gave a blood oath and broke it! disgusting! telemachus: why is that your only concern?!

but don't worry, helping to raise Telemachus and hanging around the same people consistently makes a real boy outta him gives him enough time and insight into humanity to start understand mortals better, and, as consequence, adopt some of their values.

especially the concept of spousal loyalty. Hermes is a patron god of thieves, and at the time taking someone's wife was viewed as an act of theft (because women were property, yeeesh). which is why to him Penelope's situation was less of a tragedy and more of a "well, my dumbass great-grandson Odysseus should've seen it coming. snooze you lose! ¯_(ツ)_/¯"

that is, until he gets to know her better. and suddenly she's not a prize to be won or a challenge to conquer. she's a smart, capable person that commands respect from anyone who's got a shred of self-awareness. she's got gentle hands, and a radiant smile, and a spine of steel. Penelope looked Hermes dead in the eyes and told him serenely to keep being a good influence on her son, she does not deserve to be reduced to a token and given away to the highest bidder.

hermes, initially: well, penelope's a rich, gorgeous, basically single queen. I'd steal her too, if she was my type. hermes, 10 years later: she's the smartest, ballsiest human woman I've ever met and if she only wants her Ugly Ass Groom then she'll fucking stay single until he comes back.

unfortunately for everyone else, Hermes cannot step in to protect her, because Zeus and Poseidon are both pissed off at Odysseus already, and if either of them notices Hermes (and/or Athena) interfering with mortals on Ithaca, they might take it as an invitation to follow suit, and then it'll be Troy Story 2: Electric Boogaloo.

so he stays his hand, and hangs around Telemachus discreetly, mostly posing as a human. for a god of liars, he's surprisingly bad at blending in for long periods of time. Hermes thinks he's an awesome conspirator. meanwhile little Telemachus didn't even realise it was a secret.

the only people who don't know that [insert alias] is a god in disguise are the suitors, who are notoriously either too stupid, too overconfident or too busy drinking to connect the dots. the exception is Antinous who pretends to be oblivious and makes sure the gods don't see him as a threat to their beloved little pup (otherwise he'd have killed the prince long ago).

the suitors, however, unanimously agree that they hate this weird annoying stranger, and try to get rid of him in increasingly elaborate ways, from poison to stabbing to wild animals to dropping pots on his head.

spoiler alert: it doesn't work.

hermes, next day: *comes back every morning like nothing had happened, whistling cheerily* suitors: WHY WON'T YOU DIE?!

eventually Antinous convinces them to give up so they don't piss off Hermes.

years pass, Telemachus grows. Athena teaches him strategy and arts of war. Aeolus gradually comes out of the hiding and becomes the resident lovable comic relief side character. and Hermes? he teaches the kid all the good stuff.

and it's not just lying, okay? (though it's a significant part of it) music, diplomacy, geography, street smarts, some history. he's a worldly god, had observed and been a part of countless cultures. above all else, he knows people. he may not really understand them, but he knows how to get what he wants from them, how to find common ground and how to spin things to get along with practically anyone.

and girls. Hermes helps Telemachus with girls.

because he's the cool uncle figure that Telemachus admires, the kid trusts him enough to ask the god for advice when he starts growing older and gets his first crush in his early teens.

and, on one hand, Hermes is ecstatic. on the other one…

telemachus, blushing and stuttering: there's a girl I met, she's so pretty, and cool, and, and, and how do I talk to her, do I just come up and say hi, but what if sh- hermes: … hermes: *blue screen of death* hermes: MY BABY-

it's the first time he truly starts to grasp how short the kid's life will be. because in the blink of an eye he turned from a newborn to an adolescent, and soon enough he'll have his own family, and Odysseus was already a king himself at this age, and Hermes is not ready this can't be it he can't just grow old and die

so anyway, he pushes the thought aside and pretends it never came up at all (because that always works, and bottling shit up never blows up in anyone's face, right, Athena?)

he gives lots of advice, from useless macho stuff to golden nuggets like "be yourself" and "show her respect". and, of course, he cheers from the sidelines, hiding 'inconspicuously'.

and it goes surprisingly well. the girl appears to find Telemachus' awkward attempts at flirting sweet and charming, and the boy is on the cloud nine.

but Hermes isn't. because, unlike the prince, his judgment isn't clouded by a puppy crush and he can see that the girl is actually a lying bitch, who's playing Telemachus like a fiddle, hoping to become the next queen of Ithaca. and he won't stand for it.

except Telemachus, for some reason, doesn't seen thrilled when Hermes tells him to dump the girl?? he flat out refuses to believe that, because love is blind and so are sheltered insecure teenage boys.

so Hermes, in his infinite wisdom, decides to prove to his naive little charge once and for all that the girl is just using him and doesn't actually love him. now, what's the first example of true selfless love from a woman that comes to mind to the god who had spent the last few years hanging out with the royal family of Ithaca? right, Penelope. and the one thing that characterises Penelope is her unconditional loyalty, even into the face of countless threats and temptations.

hermes, to himself: so, if I show the kid that the bitch will leave him as soon as she finds a better prospect, he will definitely admit I was right all along! and dump her! it's a perfect, easy, foolproof plan! I am so smart! what could possibly go wrong!

another spoiler alert: everything goes wrong.

the girl does happily jump into his arms as soon as he hints that he's a god/demi-god/just a cooler prince or something. she does it right in front of Telemachus, in fact, so there's no way he'd be able to deny the obvious.

on the bright side, Hermes immediately outs her as a lying bitch and publicly shames her, embarrassing her family and ruining her prospects of marriage and causing her to suffer for the rest of her life ('disproportionate revenge'? what's that?).

on the down side, for some unfathomable reason, Telemachus doesn't seem very grateful??? what???????

hermes: and so, AS ALWAYS, I was right. telemachus: hermes: but please, hold your applause! telemachus: hermes: I did it all for you, out of the goodness of my heart! telemachus: hermes: and please, don't apologize! you were wrong, I get it! no need to- telemachus: *bitch slaps his smug face and runs away, hurt and betrayed* hermes: *shocked pikachu face*

thing is, Hermes doesn't understand what he did wrong. in his mind he did a rather good deed: showed the liar's true colors, and spared the kid a lot of heartache down the line. he doesn't understand the feelings of betrayal from having someone he trusts explicitly outing him as a naive fool in front of everyone he ever dreamed of earning respect from. doesn't get the pain of having been cast aside by someone he liked in favor of a god, with whom he could never compete. can't imagine living in the shadow of someone he had never even known and being constantly reminded of all the ways he's lacking.

telemachus: I'm not a stupid child, hermes. I could've handled it. hermes: but you didn't listen to me, maybe you'd have never seen it on your own- telemachus: and maybe I would've. maybe I would've had the opportunity to find out myself, and maybe I would've learned from it, but you never gave me that choice, did you?! did you think i'm that dumb?! hermes: oh, come on, kid, you're not dumb- telemachus: THEN WHY DO YOU TREAT ME LIKE I AM?! WHY DON'T YOU EVER TRUST ME?!

aaaaand there's the core issue. Telemachus had spent his whole life being babied at best and looked down upon at worst. constantly compared to Odysseus and his more vicious peers, always shielded from making tough decisions and proving himself. he feels like he will never amount to anything, because no one ever lets him really try. as soon as it looks like he's going to make a mistake, someone (usually Athena, Aeolus or Hermes) swoops in and 'fixes' everything for him, just like they used to do when he was an accident-prone toddler. which he isn't anymore.

and Hermes doesn't understand that. to him, ten years is basically nothing. the kid can't have changed that much in ten years. because if he did, then he'll change a lot in the next ten years, and the next, and very soon he won't change anymore, because ten years are nothing and so are human livespans.

ten years are nothing, because to admit otherwise would force Hermes to face the fact that Telemachus, no matter how precious, is just as mortal as any other human. which amounts to basically losing him already. and Hermes can't.

he held that boy as an infant. he fed him, helped to teach him walk and talk and make silly faces. he can't lose this child to time, the one thing even gods can't really protect humans from.

Penelope finds Hermes sitting on her balcony with the most human expression on his face she'd ever seem him wear. he's lost, and confused, and full of regrets, and kind of terrified. in that aspect, he reminds her painfully of her husband.

hermes, mumble: he's growing older penelope, sighing: I know hermes: he's not a baby anymore penelope: believe me, I know hermes: but... what do I do now??? penelope: you let it happen. not much else you can do.

she talks him through it.

hermes, rambling: but I will lose him. I'll lose him if he grows old and dies. this is why I don't get attached to mortals, you die too soon. he can't die now. penelope: he's not going to die now. he'll become the king first, he will find a good wife and have children and grandchildren. he will become great, greater that I and his father could ever dream of. and he'll be happy. don't you want to see that? hermes: I do, but- I don't want him to grow up! penelope: then you finally know the biggest joy and the deepest pain of parenthood.

it doesn't fix his fear. doesn't fix his pain, either. but it does help fix his attitude.

because she's right. Telemachus is growing old, and he can't shelter and protect the boy forever. soon he'll become a man, then an elder. and there's nothing Hermes can do about it, short of dragging the prince to Olympus and begging Zeus to grant him immortality, which will never work.

Hermes and Telemachus make up, of course. the latter knows, deep down, that the former is just trying to take care of him. they make up and forget the fight - at least, the boy does.

Hermes will always remember.

and he will count every day, every wrinkle, every grey hair.

the joy and pain of parenthood indeed.

[neonmetro]

Hey chat I'm sick and the day is definitely not going as well as I thought it would so. . .I ever so kindly beg for a Uly. . .

Honestly this guy needs an award because he is working a full time job in my head with no breaks !!!! Like this man can't even call out sick. . .it's so cute. . .the silly ever. Honestly I think this is going to be Ulysses appreciation because what makes someone feel more better than talking about some silly blorbos. . . NOTHING !!!

He's so pathetic and awful I love it. . .

*slams fist on table* GET ME ALL THE ULYSSES YOU HAVE !!!! STAT !!! /SILLY

-Ulysses loving anon

IT TRULY IS A 24/7 365 DAY JOB HAVING ULY IN YOUR BRAIN THAT GUY JUST INFESTS YOUR GOD FORSAKEN BRAINWORMS!!!!!!

he truly is just. absolutely tired and done with everything. life is just dull without Her, and without Her, he is noman.

i was actually talking about his gender w a friend semi recently and its really interesting part of him... most of his identity really does align with traditional masc expectations, wanting to protect those closest to him and be able to support a family and he's essentially just a trans straight guy but his relationships with sapphics is just different. he doesn't sees them as another facet to himself or a missing piece (even though literally everyone he was close to has died and its his fault he doesn't think he's less of a man gender wise he just doesn't think he's a human period (tho his it pronoun doesn't derive from this. to be clear))

ALSO. pivoting to his friendships. he, polites, and eurylochus have matching hair ribbons...

when polites dies, eurylo takes it while uly takes his out. he can't pretend he deserves it now after what he's done to polites, and eurylo is like "ah... i'll take it for safe keeping, if you ever think you want it again."

NOW. ONTO MINVERVA. IT GETS FUCKED.

the founding purposefully have kids and champions that aren't apart of the founding's bloodline just so they can later use their souls to fuel the palladium to keep their powers/immortality. and they Want contracts w other people so they'll be able to provide better powers/last longer. so having multiple champions, like in the case of minerva (ulysses and diomedes), isn't unusual, its just "efficient"

isn't it fucked that he was slated to be a pig sent to the slaughter and the only way to get out of that fate is to butcher his friend first. isn't that crazy (the friend being minerva or polites is up to audience interpretation)

his relationships with his kids are also really fucked.

telemachus obv is the closest with him and he actively tries to talk to him the most. but also his feelings on his dad are weird. on one hand he's PISSED at him for leaving him and his mom alone and making him suffer so much just because he wasn't there physically or emotionally causing so much repression. but on the other, if he doesn't loves uly, who will? he kind of feels an obligation as uly's oldest kid to set an example for the rest of them for how they should feel about their father.

because telegony (their name is actually telegony but i'll tag them as telegonus bc i don't want to tag that god forsaken book) absolutely DESPISES ulysses. joined enosichthon corp. out of spite. rose through the ranks. out of spite. intruded on a picnic w/ uly and telemachus. out of spite. they spent the absolute least amount of time with their father and it shows. they hate ulysses with all their guts and ulysses just accepts it which makes telegony even *angrier*.

nausinous spent a lot of their childhood with ulysses, so they have a sort of attachment to him... they don't hate them but they see how their half sibling reacts to him and wishes to just... not have him kill himself in front of everyone.

ANYWAYS THAT'S YOUR DESIGNATED ULY CONTENT !!!!! I HOPE YOU FEEL BETTER SOON BTW...!!! (ik this is late... hopefully you feel better soon tho ^^)

[kyuremking]

Epic the Musical Ithaca Saga just dropped, and I couldn't help but think about your Myth War AU, especially with how Telemachus was the one who became the first Capricorn Saint.

Mild spoilers for the Epic the Musical Ithaca Saga ahead! If you wish to have the full experience, I recommend watching the full livestream of the Epic the Musical Concept Album on the official creators, Jorge Rivera-Herrans, YouTube channel first.

In Song 39 "I Can't Help but Wonder", Athena's lines feel like a prelude to her decision to protect humanity and becoming the guardian deity of Earth - in Saint Seiya context, of course. Honestly, it was Odysseus' response that really got me going down the 'Saint Seiya what if' rabbit hole, since it would then feel like Athena was trying to fulfill a silent promise to him: to create a world where "we all held each other with a bit more empathy". I couldn't help but link that specific line to a skill Athena uses in the game Saint Seiya: Awakening, called "Land of Love and Peace". And with Telemachus becoming her new Warrior of the Mind and her friend in the musical, and Telemachus becoming the first Capricorn Saint in your AU alongside the title of "Athena's most Loyal Saint"? It just flows so nicely to me, like- with the context of Epic, Telemachus would absolutely be on board with helping Athena create a better world, since it would mean no one would have to go through what himself and his family did (the suitors, the journey and sacrifices Odysseus had to make to get home, etc.).

Idk, it was all a bunch of perfect coincidences in my head, and I kind of wanted to share it with you, since it made me think of your AU's.

Haha, thank you so much. Epic is great it's so beautiful and in the song Athena sounds so sad.

Telemachus and Cassandra are very important.

On the one hand Cassandra is Athena's mistakes when she started this whole protector of the earth thing. Because what was the fault of the people of Troy? Did they deserve that ten year war because of the actions of their rulers? or was it all the fault of the gods since it all started at the wedding of Peleus and Thetis when Eris dropped the golden apple.

After all Athena met Cassandra when she saved her from being raped in the sack of Troy, not only that. Cassandra participated in the ten-year war against Poseidon that takes place in the background of the Odyssey.

And on the other hand we have Telemachus, he is Athena's achievement, when Poseidon was defeated and Odysseus was able to return home when a family that had been separated was reunited after twenty years but still suffered greatly.

And yet Telemachus was willing to fight alongside her, to accompany her on this difficult journey for as long as he could, even if his mortal life was short-lived. He was not the first saint of Capricorn, he was the second, but he was the reason why the saints of Capricorn are considered the most loyal and it was to him that Athena gave the sword with which she wounded the divine body of Poseidon and separated his soul from his body.

They were there to remind her of her mistakes and achievements.

And above all the reason she fought, because humanity deserved a chance and deserved to be protected against gods who thought of them as nothing more than toys.

They were the closest to her until Rodorio and Bellerephon came into the picture, though the closeness she had with them was a different kind of closeness. Until Bellerephon died of course.

[queerwritersingerdramaqueen]

LETS KEEP IT GOING BABY

 Now the tone shifts into the reason why I think Albert was good casting for this. Albert is representing the whole cast in this moment and trying to convince William to not do the thing he shouldn't do. I think this also, in some way, gives Albert a chance to step in where he didn't in the real world of the story or in canon. It gives him a chance to protect and "save" that child he "corrupted." Of course, it won't be him who "saves" Odysseus but he will be helping Liam in feeling ok again, just like when sherlock jumped to save him and then they made their promise when everything was getting better. And of course, two of William's, now technically deceased, friends and his beloved family member are also back to fuck him up and he's just go to scream a little bit. Please imagine he was going to step off the edge when Calypso said the open arms line but then Polities, Eurylochus and Anticlea pop up and it's just way to much for him, so he starts sing screaming, eventually covering his eyes and falling to his knees, until he reaches out and calls out to Athena, looking right past her. Sherlock is in near tears. I think I should also make the point that, though this is the lowest point for Odysseus in the musical, it's just another obstacle or turning point for William. This is one of those occassions where the process of musical catharsis is there but it's probably more William drawing on old sources of sadness to really bring it out of him, or maybe he's just really feeling it after hearing Sherlock and Bill's pieces. He’s letting it out IN THE MUSICAL so he doesn’t lose it in THE REAL WORLD. ALSO, CAN I JUST ADD THAT HE COULD HAVE CALLED OUT FOR ANYBODY, HE COULD HAVE CRIED OUT FOR PENELOPE OR TELEMACHUS OR EVEN EURYLOCHUS BUT NO, HE STILL TRUSTED ATHENA AND BELEIVED IN THEIR FRIENDSHIP ENOUGH THAT HE CALLED OUT TO HER FOR HELP. JUST, THE ACTUAL HURT THAT CAUSES ME GODDAMIT.

God Games - ALRIGHT MOTHER FUCKERS, ITS HERE AND ITS TIME. I once said that Ruthlessness was my Magnum Opus. NO MORE, now it's GOD GAMES TIME TO SHINE. AND YA'LL ARE NOT GONNA FUCKING BELEIVE THIS, AKA-NO-KEN GUESSED ALL MY CASTINGS CORRECTLY. GOOD ON YOU, YOU DESERVE A COOKIE. Now, I'm gonna do this in stages so hold on to your hats. Sherlock calling on Jack for this game... really doesn't have a deeper meaning. They're just acting this out as Jack would have no real reason to be mad a William or Sherlock. He's just having fun being the one with the most terrifying fucking voice (and like, Holy shit Zeus, I hate you so fucking much but GODDAMN YOU HAVE SOME PIPES). What he DOES do however, is set up the occasion for Sherlock to confront something he's been running from just a little bit. Why did he get back with his Ex? It's the question we all might have and I've been trying to answer. Some other people also have this question. Here is where my whole timeline kinda unravels a bit, because THE THING I KNEW WAS GONNA HAPPEN FUCKING HAPPENED. So, I have to undo some stuff from before. So, in the underworld saga where I said they were "officially" back together, I mean now, "they're trying out dating again and no one actually KNOWS that."

Regardless, the introduction of the gods would go something like this: all five of them step onto the stage in dark robes and when Zeus calls their names, they rip them off to show all the different colours and designs of the gods. Apollo/Billy - So Billy is a fairly neutral party on this knowing both of them. He also fairly well knows that getting in between them is a fool's errand so he gives up pretty easy and has a fairly flimsy argument. Nonetheless, Sherlock speaks to him like an older brother would when their little brother says something really dumb. Their confrontation is fairly tame compared to the others. (ALSO, HE'S HERDER'S FUCKING VA THAT IS SO FUCKING FUNNY AND GOOD) Hephaestus/Lestrade - Jorge's whole family being musicians is just magnificent honestly. Anyway, Lestrade talks to Sherlock like a kid mostly. "Trust is not given, it's forged" sounds like something your dad would tell you once you start making friends in highschool. So using that line of logic, he kind of pleads the case a bit more. He's not borderline condescending like he is with Billy but there is a degree of demand in there ("Daddy, I love him." type nonsense but without the cringe). Lestrade also knows there is no fighting Sherlock when he's determined so he just lets it happen like, "you fuck around, you'll find out." He's such a father in this its kind of funny.  Aphrodite/Mary AND Ares/John - I don't know if this was obvious or not but it's kind of cool that Aphrodite and Ares level up sounds follow each other because their a package deal. But this is where it actually comes into some "what the fuck are you doing?" territory. Mary is mostly just upset about how William couldn't see that hurting himself meant hurting everyone he knows. Her anger isn't just for Sherlock in this sense. Bringing up Anticlea is her "reassuring" Sherlock that he's not the only one that was affected by this whole debacle and even his closest brother was hurt, so let him "reap what he sows," because it doesn't have to be his problem. There “dance/movement” thing is Mary being maybe a tiny bit remorseful, very touchy and like “I’m supposed to be mad at you by i honestly feel kind of bad for you.” So Sherlock tries to appeal to her emotionally but, let's just say that John has known Sherlock for way to long to be swayed by his bullshit. (aka-no-ken, I'm using some of the stuff we talked about so credit given where credit is due.) John being Ares worked because he is the only one willing to fight Sherlock when he's being dumb. He is angry FOR SHERLOCK, no one else as he doesn't really know anyone from that side of the cast. Think of his anger at Sherlock after the Milverton debacle and that it exactly what we're dealing with, just directed at William this time. It starts with John fighting him and Sherlock defending, then Sherlock very quickly gets angry and fights back. And of course, because Sherlock is stubborn and tends to have a leg up on John in the argument department, he wins this little sibling fight. Seeing this defensiveness from Sherlock does give them the idea that maybe things are starting to get better so they're still wary but willing to let Sherlock navigate his own relationship.

TUMBLR, I WILL MAKE YOU POST THIS

PREVIEW: 

AKA-NO-KEN YOU ACTUAL PHSCHIC HOW THE FUCK DID YOU GUESS ALL MY GOD CASTINGS CORRECTLY???

AGAIN, WISDOM SAGA SPOILERS SO READ AT YOUR OWN RISK. ALSO MAYBE A TRIGGER WARNING FOR LOVE IN PARADISE CAUSE THAT WAS MORE THAN I WAS FUCKING EXPECTING.

THIS IS SHERLOCK AND BILL'S FUCKING SAGA NOW BITCHES BROS AND NON-BINARY HOES. AND AGAIN, I'M FANGIRLING AS I GO.

So, with where we left off, William's having a minor relapse in his mental state but it won't become too much of a plot point/serious thing. He and Moran are on funky terms but if there is no "reconciliation" in later sagas then We'll figure that out when we get there. Anyway, this saga ain't about him.

(ALSO, I MISSED A FUCKING OPPOURTUNITY

VON HERDER AS TIRESIAS, IM A FOOL)

Anyway, lets get started.

The Wisdom Saga:

Legendary - BILL IS HERE FUCKERS. SHERLIAM'S ADPOTED SON IS GONNA BE LEGENDARY. I really like how this parallels with Canon when Bill only knew William as a genius professor and Sherlock's actually the one who introduces them in a way. It'll set up nicely for when we get to "I can't help but wonder" and Telemachus/Bill has to toss up with the fact that his Dad just removed the twenty year problem but he did also kill a bunch of people (you know, like in canon.). So this starts out with the lights slowly coming in and Bill's "room" has a chair and a few other easily moveable props. This is a very dancey number I'm finding so these props are probably gonna get taken off stage so there can be actors milling around for Telemachus to interact with, I think he'd be mostly weaving between them trying to avoid them while they keep swiping at him. The majority of suitors can be off the stage but Antinous and a few others are up there ready for the "Whatcha gonna do about it, champ?" The lights would change on Boy to a red colour. It would be so cute seeing Billy fight for Sherlock's Honour. I think something really cool that could happen is when Telemachus sings "somebody help me" the lights flash blue for a second like Athena has heard his plea. and at the very end of the song, he punches Milverton square on the nose (in the fake way of course).

Little Wolf - My big idea for this that would absolutely not transfer over to a regular production of Epic the musical would be that Antinous/Milverton is not the one fighting Telemachus/Bill. I cannot really see Milverton fighting for himself and would definitely have lackey's doing it for him; but outside of this AU Antinous absolutely fights for himself. But yeah, Milverton mocks the shit out of Bill while he's fighting somebody. The lights stay red while the suitors and Milverton are doing their thing. When Athena appears the lights turn blue like fighting of the panic of being in a fight. I think this is one of those moments where its so fun having Sherlock as Athena and Penelope cause it's like "Don't worry baby, Mama's here to help." But, onto the super cool crossover intertexuality talk I can't seem to do right now, Sherlock as Athena fits very nicely cause he, alongside William, helps Bill get into the university; so Sherlock being the one helping in this fight reminds me of that. And Athena's "I've no respect for bullies" reminds me of his disdain for Milverton and his methods of blackmail. ALSO, HER PIANO IN THAT PART IS SO FUCKING GOOD I FUCKING ASCENDED. PAIRING IT WITHT HE DRUMS THAT WAY, WHO DOES JORGE THINK HE IS. In a way, this is like showing how Penelope would like to react to her suitors beating up her son (it just popped into my head but kind of like a batman meme, Penelope dressing up as the goddess of wisdom to fuck up her son's bullies). Athena's whole solo there sounds a lot like Sherlock when he was talking to Irene. And when the fight ends and Antinous says Penelope needs to pick a suitor, Athena/Sherlock is very disturbed before he helps Bill up.

We'll be Fine - The thing I love the absolute most about this musical is exploring Sherlock's side of this whole fiasco they were in and giving him a chance to vent some of this frustrations. Because it wasn't easy on him either and he might blame himself a little bit for not being able to help more. Bill knows a little bit about it from gossip and rumour and being a part of the Epic cast for a little while, not too much but between the two of them, Bill understands that Sherlock is letting out a bit of his frustration with the previous problem and the repeat that seems to be occurring, because he's super smart like that (I say seems because in real life, it won't last that long and William is probably gonna be ok and reconciled with Moran by the time we get there. It'll hopefully make sense once we get to the next saga but I just can't keep knocking this dude over he needs to start healing and giving him a less self-jeopardising problem to fight). Even though he and William have worked through a fair bit of what happened and their still going really strong, Sherlock is still worried. Sherlock's super soft on Bill because he's so similar to William. Bill, while sticking to the script, is just subtly reassuring him that it's ok, they'll get through this rough patch and they'll be fine. Sherlock doesn't need to be the first responder. A little bit of it probably comes out as Bill saying "William wouldn't want you to beat yourself up over this," especially when he mentions Athena's friend (William and Bill are also probably really close friends at this point, don't tell me William wouldn't take him under his wing immediately after they're introduced). When Athena calls him a good kid, Sherlock ruffles his hair and then Bill makes a move like someone's calling him and runs off, leaving him for the next part.

ALRIGHT I'M HAVING FUCKING ISSUES WITH TUMBLR RIGHT NOW SO STAY TUNED FOR PART TWO BECAUSE ANYTHING LONGER THAN THIS WONT FUCKING POST OR SAVE AS A DRAFT.

@aka-no-ken I'M COMING SWEETIE AND I'M BRINGING MY WORK WITH ME JUST BEAR WITH ME

[eternally--mortal]

So right now I’m stuck between two headcanons, and I’m going to need some help picking a favorite.

(Warning: insanely long post filled with Geeking and Greeking out, with lots of references to mythology)

Headcanon One: Annabeth is Penelope (from the Odyssey)

Honestly, I’ve lived for years with the opinion that Annabeth is a first generation soul, but I’ve come to the recent conclusion that, if she were reborn, the only acceptable soul for her would be Penelope’s.

(There are some good arguments to be made for her being Odysseus, but I don’t like that theory, largely because Odysseus is a grade A dick—which we’ll get into later, don’t worry—and that Penelope totally deserved better, which I think Annabeth gets through Percy, among other things.)

Now some of you might be saying, ‘yeah, I get it. Penelope is a badass who totally tricked all of those idiot suitors. But she also spent all of that time crying. And not fighting back. That just doesn’t sound like Annabeth to me.’

Let me remind you: Odysseus was gone for twenty years. He took all of the fighting men with him. Which meant there was no one at home to raise the local boys into civilized Greeks who respected women, and there were also no respectable men to speak up for Odysseus’ family. Telemachus was a baby when Odysseus sailed off to war, and he didn’t have anyone to train him like his dad had. No hunting wild boars and getting insane scars like Odysseus did as a kid. Penelope was raising Telemachus alone, and she couldn’t afford to put up a fuss, or else these immature men-children would have killed her child. In fact, at the beginning of the Odyssey, the suitors are flirting a bit too closely with the idea of murdering Telemachus.

Which brings us to Greek culture at the time, beginning with an anecdote about the Romans (bear with me).

Let’s remember that, in the Homeric cycle + Virgil’s official fanfiction, Rome was born from the remnants of Troy. Aeneas (a son of Venus) fled to Carthage where he married their queen Dido, knocked her up, and then ditched her while he ran off to marry some other chick and build the Roman Empire, all because the gods told him to.

(I’m going somewhere with this. I promise)

Well, the Romans must’ve had some guilt over the shit that Aeneas put Dido through, because they decided to give women marriage rights. By which I mean? You guessed it!

Divorce.

Roman women got to own their own property. And they got to keep it when they married, which meant that they could divorce their husbands and still retain all of their property.

The Greeks? Not so much.

Greek women were educated, mainly for the purpose of running a household and managing finances. But most of them were kept inside the household and away from contact with men. When they did go outside, Greek women had various layers of dress to hide them from prying eyes. Too hot in the summer? Bring a parasol. Wear a giant hat. But those layers stayed on. These women had no ownership of their property. In fact, in many ways they were property. And they had absolutely no rights to divorce.

Now let’s think about the women of the Trojan war.

Note for a moment that Helen and Clytemnestra were Penelope’s cousins. Also note that these three all endured great suffering because they were women trapped in a society that treated them like possessions.

(I mean, the Spartans weren’t like that. But the general conglomerate that we understand to be ‘Ancient Greece’ were. At least, as far as my limited research is concerned)

Helen had a whole hoard of suitors vying for her hand before she married Menelaus (and, I would like to note, that Odysseus was one of those suitors). And they weren’t exactly the most peaceful crowd. After she was married off to Menelaus, there would have been no legal escape. It didn’t matter that Helen loved/lusted-after/whatever-you-want-to-call-it Paris. Legally, she was trapped.

So what did she do?

She ran away with him.

And it turned into a giant bloody mess.

People like to blame Helen for starting a massive war, but you know what? Screw all of those people. Or, better not, like the women of Lysistrata, for gods sakes stop screwing them. Because the real problem here is definitely the fact that these women had absolutely no autonomy.

(I promise this will come back around to Annabeth eventually. I’m just trying to make a point here.)

Clytemnestra? She had an affair while her husband was away because ten years is an awful long time to be alone in a palace where no one takes you seriously because you are a women.

Did you know that she set up this whole chain of Greek towers and posted watchmen at them so they could send fire beacons to let her know that the war was over? And, by the way, those towers were very effective for relaying the message far faster than the soldiers could have sent a person? Far faster than they could sail home?

And everybody else thought that she was totally insane for devising this system. And when she told them that the war was over they didn’t believe her.

Sounds kind of like Cassandra, whom Agamemnon brought home with him as a concubine (right in front of his wife’s salad). And when Cassandra warned him that his wife was going to kill him, he wouldn’t listen to her.

Go read Seneca’s version of the account. His human psychology is incredibly moving, and his portrayal of Clytemnestra is so relatable. She agonizes because she still loves her husband, but she knows that he’ll never forgive her for her affair with Aegisthus. Even though Agamemnon has brought home a concubine war prize. (Oh, and let’s not forget the fact that she’s still rightfully furious that her husband sacrificed their daughter on an alter to the gods so that he could kick up enough wind to sail his fleet to Troy and go retrieve Clytemnestra’s twin sister Helen who didn’t want to be retrieved) In her despair at the ever-growing guilt and frustration, Clytemnestra decides that the only way forward is further into the pit. And, frankly, in the society she’s stuck in, she may be right.

But Penelope is smart. She’s the only one to minimize the damage to the people she loves. She gets a remotely happy ending after twenty years of suffering because she bides her time and plays the game. Penelope is clever, she is quick on her feet, she knows the rules, and she knows exactly how to use them.

Sounding like Annabeth yet?

Now of course, the next question would be: But I thought Penelope loved Odysseus. Why would she ever leave him in the underworld to be reborn if she could be dead with him forever?

As I said before, Odysseus is a dick.

Penelope had to rely on a husband because her autonomy was stripped from her. The only people who could really save her would have been her supposedly-dead husband, or her son. The rest of the men on Ithaca were either too old or were trying to force her into a marriage so that they could be king. A marriage that she had successfully managed to hold off for twenty years, all while managing to ration the palace’s resources (But it’s not like a woman could rule an island, right? Not like she’s intelligent or clever enough for that).

In the Odyssey where we’re reminded over and over again that Athena is a force to be reckoned with, and that Odysseus is only still alive because Athena keeps interceding on his behalf, even down to the very last minute—which Zeus had made illegal, by the way (see my Percy as Achilles post for more information on that), it’s fascinating for us to see Penelope treated so poorly. But look at the way Odysseus treats Athena. She appears to him in person (super illegal) and she has to chew him out because he tries to yell at her and say that she hasn’t helped him at all and that he’s had to do it all by himself.

By himself, huh? Like all those times his pride got his shipmates—his own people over whom he was meant to be a fatherly king—killed? Just like how he sat and cried on Calypso’s island for seven years instead of trying to find a way off? Like how he totally stopped trying to get home when he was hanging out with Circe? And he impregnated her???? (Which isn’t in the Odyssey itself, but is explained later in the Homeric cycle when his and Circe’s bastard son comes back and kills Odysseus and takes Penelope for a wife. Yeah, great ending for Penelope right there. Thanks, Odysseus. Oh, and the sources I looked at indicated that Minerva ordered the marriage. Apparently Athena/Minerva is used to ordering people around about whom they should or should not marry. . . I don’t even want to dig into that . . . ).

And then, when Odysseus does come home, he hides himself from Penelope and decides that he has to test her to see if she’s still faithful to him.

Seriously, like her twenty-years of clever maneuvering and patient suffering weren’t enough for him.

And, yet again I want to remind everyone that Odysseus would have just as eagerly married Helen. That he happened to get lucky that Menelaus was chosen instead, and that Penelope was as intelligent and marvelous as she was. And that she was so faithful to him even though he never seemed to show her the same respect.

Right. Because Penelope is the one who needed to prove herself.

There’s no way that a woman with that level of intelligence would sit in the Underworld, watching dead souls enter who talk about how society is progressing and women have rights now, remembering all the times her husband cheated on her, and how his bastard son killed him and forced her into marriage at the behest of an angsty Roman craft goddess with a personality disorder, and everything else — there’s no way she would have processed all that and not wanted rebirth, in my opinion.

And, if we follow my theory that the rebirth process chooses your future life based on your past development and growth, it’s only logical that Penelope could be a daughter of Athena.

And that Athena would know her soul.

And that Athena would love her as a favorite daughter.

Until Percy Jackson complicates everything.

At this point I would like to reiterate that, in spite of all of Odysseus’ ungrateful sass, he was, like, Athena’s favorite mortal. She blessed him. She loved his clever mind and his snark. She forgave his hubris endlessly because he was her person. She was so proud of that little shit.

I would also like to point out that Poseidon spends most of the Odyssey viciously trying to kill Odysseus. Poseidon knew that Athena liked him. He may have had multiple reasons to target Odysseus, but Athena was no doubt on his mind the whole time. Especially when she kept trying and succeeding at stopping him. She put a lot of work into helping Odysseus triumph over Poseidon.

So you can understand why Athena might be a little extra upset if Penelope/Annabeth is suddenly falling in love with Poseidon’s favorite son.

Who, if you agree with my pre-existing headcanon, also happens to be Achilles.

That would piss Odysseus off so much.

I can imagine Odysseus sneaking his way out of the underworld through the doors of death and managing to stay hidden when the doors were officially closed, successfully using his wily tricks to avoid Thanatos —Possibly with a little help from his favorite goddess. I can picture him hunting down Percy to kill him. Until Annabeth steps in the way and has to tell her ex-husband (wow, is that ever a weird revelation for her) to get lost. At which point he decides he needs to kill her and drag her back to the underworld with him.

There are booby traps everywhere for the next few months. Fancy contraptions. He starts with little gifts at their door—mini ‘trojan horses’—and escalates when he realizes that obviously Penelope is going to know better than to let this Poseidon-son-Achilles-devil-child open a mysterious package that might very well be from her ex.

Odysseus finally catches Percy alone and is all “You stole my wife!”

And Percy has to be like “It’s the 21st century, dude. I’m pretty sure Annabeth can speak for herself. I can’t make her do anything. That’s why I love her.”

At which point Annabeth springs a trap on Odysseus. Because he’s been so fixated on Achilles’ usual brute force that he doesn’t consider that Percy might have learned something from Annabeth, and that the two of them might know how to work together. He doesn’t even begin to consider that Percy, unlike Odysseus, knows how to communicate with his significant other, and that he knows when to ask for help.

(Also, fun fact for those of you who want Annabeth to always have an ‘A’ name, Penelope’s original name was “Arnacia” or “Arnaea”.)

The other headcanon is, of course, that Sally Jackson is Penelope.

Consider, for a second, the idea that all mortals who can see through the mist were originally participants in the original myths —Not demigods necessarily. You’ll notice that Achilles was really the main Greek demigod to participate in the Trojan war. Not only was Achilles the son of Thetis, but his father, Pelius, was a son of Zeus. Odysseus? A legacy multiple generations back, maybe, but not a demigod. Neither were Menelaus or Agamemnon. All of these people were involved with the gods, but they weren’t really direct relatives. (Although Helen was a daughter of Zeus, as was her twin sister, Clytemnestra. Go girl power, I guess. And I should probably mention that Penelope’s dad was the king of Sparta, and that her mom was a naiad. But the men! The men were mostly mortal).

The point is that, godly blood or not, those involved would retain some of the blessings they had in their first lives.

Luke’s mom, Percy’s mom, Rachel Elizabeth Dare—all of them would have lived lives intricately tied with the gods, creating an impression of the mythical world that carried from one life to the next.

Just take a look at what Penelope went through and tell me it doesn’t sound like a palace full of Gabe Ugliano’s ordering her around for more beer and bean dip and trying to kill off her annoying brat so they could take the throne and live easy off bean dip forever.

Imagine Sally Jackson instinctually knowing ‘I’ve been through worse. If this is what it takes to protect my son, I’ll do it.’

Also, gotta love the complete reversal where she gets to know Poseidon and falls in love with him knowing who he is because she’s Finally Found A Man Who Won’t Hide His Identity From Her Or Test Her For Her Loyalty. So that man happens to be the god who made her ex’s life hell. So what? Poseidon is an emotional person. At least he’s upfront about it.

Odysseus crawls his way out of the Underworld and confronts Sally going “You slept with the murderous god who ruined my life and kept me from coming home?! And look at this disgusting monstrosity that you produced!” *gesturing to Percy who may or may not also be Achilles*

Sally politely reminds him that she’s not his wife anymore, and that she still has access to a certain mythical creature’s head, and that if he doesn’t stop threateningly gesturing to her son she will have two ex-husbands on display in the Museum of Modern Art.

[kashuan]

What buffles me about the popularity of Madeline Miller's book is how shallow her characters are. Achilles and Circe have no true, unlikable flaws (they're "timid" and "angry" at worst, when the others are rapists) while everyone else is made comically evil because Miller is too poor of an author to create compelling characters that are loved and appreciated for their complexity, she resorts to vilify the heck out of everyone else so that Achilles and Circe have no "competition". Oh and she made Patroclus from an absolute beast to a simp whose greatest ambition is to be Achilles's housewife. Circe's cruelty is made into yass queen moments, and we are subjected to pages of entirely self-unaware Circe complaining about cruel gods while she is a cruel god. It's like a white person bitching about white people, trying to distant themselves like this doesn't include them too

Honestly though, the black and whiteness of her stories is one of their biggest downfalls to me, especially when your subject is Greek mythology lol? Either everyone needs to be equally terrible or you need to give due diligence with making everyone properly nuanced IMO. I’ll never forgive her for speed running Iphigenia’s sacrifice in this regard; bizarre choice when there’s some great Achilles’ characterization to be had there, but oh no can’t throw any complexity on ach/pats pure gay uwu love by even suggesting he might feel something for a Girl, yuckie [see: deidamia chapter]. This passage was particularly unforgivable for like 10 different reasons:

(Canon patroclus deserves better than this and nothing like some modern day monogamy concepts in my ancient greek fiction. I also love the idea of Achilles saying No to this very common sort of arrangement because his bf was jealous, would love to see how that one went over)

Her then writing Agamemnon being like ‘well that happened’ after Iph dies in less than a page and holding a celebration for the army the same night, lol. Truly gotta cement that this man is The Villain (compare this to Iphigenia 1977 where we can imply he feels embittered and resentful towards the army who immediately begin to celebrate. Heck, even messier modern adaptations like Helen 2003 or TFOAC at least Somewhat understood the assignment and depicted him as genuinely conflicted and remorseful). Like I get Achilles is your focus, you don’t have to develop everyone equally, but at least pretend you’re not incredibly biased/making your story as easily digestible as possible. I just often find myself imagining how different the ‘mainstream’ side of the fandom would be if she hadn’t turned half the characters into mischaracterized tropes just to further sell the ach/pat drama (I won’t even get into thetis' or pyrrhus’ horrible characterization bc enough ppl have already lol).

As for Circe, I only read the first 50 pages or so thoroughly. I was instantly tripped up by what you mention, the same style as before lol. All the male gods are so mean and awful, especially to me :( men amirite?? I’m not fishing here for a certain kind of target audience at all. It was so blatant it immediately put me off. I just skimmed the rest and remember being disgusted by her legit trying to sell circe/telemachus afair. Ultimately if this was OC fiction I wouldn’t care or comment on any of it, would take it as ‘you do you’. But these are preestablished characters we tell shared stories about, and while I think they should definitely still be open to individual interpretation, I do think you should at least like… Stick to at least some of their commonly established traits seen in their original stories? It also wouldn’t be so bad if her writing hadn’t become THE mainstream “canon” though, but because it has I will never pass up an opportunity to complain about it, lmfao

[itonje]

Hi! I noticed you said you didn't like TSoA, and honestly, I gotta agree. I generally like retellings, but even if you ignore the Iliad, the whole Deidamia thing was still weird and Patroclus really does deserve more justice than just being the "uwu soft boi" for Achilles. I'm personally not a fan of those types of dynamics in general and it would've been much more interesting to see their relationship a little closer to Homer's depiction of it: equals in every way.

And don't even get me started on Circe! I liked it at first, but seeing the Telegony be a part of it really ruined it for me, among other things.

yeah, i've said before that the worst problem with tsoa even if you divorce it from the adaptational issues (which i tend to do in this case because it would piss me off too bad if it didn't) there still is all the misogyny in regards to deidamia and thetis and....urgh.

also yeah i feel like the way patroclus was presented here really did do him a disservice like...i feel his death is more stronger if you don't consider him just a tack on to achilles, because the pain menelaus and the rest of the greeks feel when he dies is just as palpable and miserable as achilles' emotions (i say this being menelaus' no. 3 fan but i digress i digress) and i think if you really wanted to go with the kind hearted gentle patroclus approach which i think itself can be a little out of character if you write it the wrong way i think it would have been a much better idea to actually...write him as being a good friend to the greeks? we got a little bit of that but not as much as i would have liked for someone who's epithet is literally 'amicable' but etc etc. his relationship with briseis in the book was...good i guess iliad adaptation wise i feel that relationship isn't given much attention as it should have i just wish there was more nuance (ie, more NEGATIVE nuance) to their relationship and her relationship to achilles where the book was willing to call out and interact with his unchoice behavior instead of...washing it away

ALSO YEAH I AGREE THAT THE EQUAL DYANAMIC WHERE PATROCLUS IS JUST AS VIOLENT AND MARTIALLY SKILLED AS ACHILLES IS SO SO GOOD I DON'T CARE FOR THE CHANGING OF THAT AT ALL...but maybe i'm just a sucker for the 'warrior boyfriends' trope. is it obvious alkfskljskldjslk

and speaking of circe...oh circe. i have a great affection for it-it's better than tsoa in my opinion like in the structuring of the story and prose but i read it first so i may be biased. i think it was a very strong book until the very last part but oh my god. i feel like the female characters are kind of done dirtier in this one which should be ridiculous since a female character is in the lead position but like...scylla pasiphae perse medea athena oh my god i feel like all of them showed up to either be people for circe to be jealous over or completely awful to her. the only one who wasn't ariadne, was murdered for legitimately no reason?? the version of the myth where artemis kills her is rare, i have no idea why the author went with that (well. it was probably to tie into the theme of humanity and mortality but STILL) i thought at least by the end of the story the nymphs on circe's island would become friendly with her and we'd see a bond or something but no! the only woman who really escapes this is penelope, and their relationship, with penelope becoming fond of her and even picking up witchcraft from her is wonderful, but it sucks that it's the only one we really get to see explored between circe and another woman. speaking of which...

you're so right about the telegony turn being...weird. i think the plot described in the telegony could be..interesting (even though i personally don't take it as happening in the way i think about the trojan war + aftermath in my mind- just let odysessus and penelope be happy wahhh) and in telegonus' youth up until penelope and telemachus staying at circe's place it seemed alright, a bit new but alright until...oh my god what the hell was that romance plot with telemachus and circe...WITH HINTS TO THE ROMANCE EVEN WHEN HER SON WITH TELEMACHUS' FATHER WAS LITERALLY STILL KICKING AROUND???? i KNOW that's what happens in the plot of the telegony but the book didn't make penelope and telegonus get together?? why'd you have to do this??? not to be on my Agenda but i honest to god think that circe had to get together with ANYONE at the end of the book it should have been penelope. i think them going from their intense first meeting to being lovers or whatnot would have been very interesting to see but...i digress. she gets with her stepson. sure

i liked the ending where circe chose to become mortal, and i feel the entire book was leading up to that and the complexity of humanity as opposed to divinity and i like those themes a lot, i liked what it was trying to say and how it said it a lot, i just really was not a fan of the telemachus thing i had to slog through at the end and in general the last third of the book was a bit..strange because i feel like the ‘flow’ of the book slowed to a halt for us to keep up with telegonus' upbringing and athena's threats which itself was a bit. tedious at times. it was a good book, and i'll probably reread it at some point again which i probably won't with the song of achilles, but there were parts that were just not choice to me

[ao3feed-mythology]

The Women of the Odyssey

read it on the AO3 at https://ift.tt/2WbhWuO

by Humanity_Sucks2002

My Classics Teacher set us a task to create something to explore what the women in the Odyssey represent/mean for the poem etc.

I did this. Yay

Words: 2942, Chapters: 3/?, Language: English

Fandoms: The Odyssey - Homer, Ancient Greek Religion & Lore

Rating: Teen And Up Audiences

Warnings: Graphic Depictions Of Violence, Major Character Death

Categories: F/M, Gen

Characters: Odysseus (Ancient Greek Religion & Lore), Penelope (Ancient Greek Religion & Lore), Suitors of Penelope (Odyssey), Telemachus (Ancient Greek Religion & Lore), Circe (Ancient Greek Religion & Lore), Calypso (Ancient Greek Religion & Lore), Nausicaa (Ancient Greek Religion & Lore), Melantho (Ancient Greek Religion & Lore), Athena (Ancient Greek Religion & Lore)

Relationships: Odysseus/Penelope, Odysseus/Penelope (Ancient Greek Religion & Lore), Calypso/Odysseus (Ancient Greek Religion & Lore), Circe/Odysseus (Ancient Greek Religion & Lore), melantho/eurymachus (Ancient Greek Religion & Lore)

Additional Tags: Odyssey, Infidelity, Emotions, Coming of Age, Gods and Goddesses, Violence, honestly, They all deserve better, classics student rambles, Character Study

read it on the AO3 at https://ift.tt/2WbhWuO