#odysseusxpenelope

[winterspellsfrozenkit]

So, I LOVE Epic: This Musical and I'm excited for some of the songs in the Circe Saga, but one of TWO songs that I absolutely DESPISE in this musical is coming out and I'm so stressed out about it.

"There Are Other Ways" and "I'm Not Sorry For Loving You" make me so frustrated because it looks like they fall into downplaying the coercion and abuse Odysseus went through because the abusers are women. AND I HATE THAT.

"There Are Other Ways" is a song between a person who has power to force a person into doing what they want (Circe) and their victim (Odysseus), who can only comply. And from what I've read it has the line "There's no puppet here."

It's really clever writing because if you know the story, you know Odysseus is in a precarious situation and he was told by Hermes that when she asked to sleep with him, he needed to do it. Here's three different translations of the moment Hermes tells him "Don't you tell her no" with the warning from Hermes bolded:

"'And I will tell thee all the baneful wiles of Circe. She will mix thee a potion, and cast drugs into the food; but even so she shall not be able to bewitch thee, for the potent herb that I shall give thee will not suffer it. And I will tell thee all. When Circe shall smite thee with her long wand, then do thou draw thy sharp sword from beside thy thigh, and rush upon Circe, as though thou wouldst slay her. And she will be seized with fear, and will bid thee lie with her. Then do not thou thereafter refuse the couch of the goddess, that she may set free thy comrades, and give entertainment to thee. But bid her swear a great oath by the blessed gods, that she will not plot against thee any fresh mischief to thy hurt, lest when she has thee stripped she may render thee a weakling and unmanned.’

“ ‘And I will tell you of all the wicked witchcraft that Circe will try to practice upon you. She will mix a potion for you to drink, and she will drug the meal with which she makes it, but she will not be able to charm you, for the virtue of the herb that I shall give you will prevent her spells from working. I will tell you all about it. When Circe strikes you with her wand, draw your sword and spring upon her as though you were going to kill her. She will then be frightened, and will desire you to go to bed with her; on this you must not directly refuse her, for you want her to set your companions free, and to take good care also of yourself, but you must make her swear solemnly by all the blessed gods that she will plot no further mischief against you, or else when she has got you naked she will unman you and make you fit for nothing.’

"I will tell you all Circe’s fatal wiles. She will mix a drink for you, blending drugs with the food, but even so she will fail to enchant you: the powerful herb I will give you will prevent it. Let me tell you the rest. When Circe strikes you with her length of wand, draw your sharp sword and rush at her, as if you intend to kill her. She will be seized with fear. Then she’ll invite you to her bed, and don’t refuse the goddess’ favours, if you want her to free your men, and care for you too. But make her swear a solemn oath by the blessed gods that she won’t try to harm you with her mischief, lest when you are naked she robs you of courage and manhood.”’

He had no choice in the matter. It was a "you will have to sacrifice yourself OR you will never get your men back and you won't be safe if you don't do it" moment. While Circe's not telling this directly to Odysseus, it's still COERCION because he knows if he says "No, I want to be faithful to my wife" Circe will harm him. But a lot of people don't know that and are going to continue to perpetuate the idea that Odysseus cheated on his wife. 😒 And they're going to use that line of "There's no puppets here" as "proof" that Odysseus cheated.

If you can sympathize with Ovid's later adaptation of Medusa as a victim of Poseidon, but refuse to acknowledge Odysseus was as much a victim of Circe AND Calypso and claim he's cheating... Please, ask yourself: why is that?

[winterspellsfrozenkit]

As someone who's harbored a deep dislike and disgust for how Calypso is written in a lot of media where's a pitiable person who got her heart broken by Odysseus and don't we feel so bad for her, I'M SO GLAD EPIC MADE IT CLEAR TO THE AUDIENCE HOW CALYPSO IGNORED ODYSSEUS WHEN HE SAID "NO" AND KEPT SAYING "NO".

SHE IGNORED HIS NO AND TOOK HIS CONSENT AWAY FROM HIM. HE WASN'T JUST ON THAT LEDGE JUST FROM THE TRAUMA OF HIS TRAVELS.

God, love in paradise made me feel sick to my stomach in ways you couldn't imagine. Like my god, I have never been so scared for Odysseus than in that moment- and don't get me started of Calypso she gave me chills.

The way that she pointedly ignored Odysseus words when he told her Penelope was his wife, and how she blatantly ignored his rejections like he was a cute animal that didn't know any better. My god, I truly think she is the scariest god in this musical and fully encompass how terrifying they can be for a mortal who can't fight back.

Like my god just let him go back home!!!!! He doesn't deserve this!!!!!

[xxxdestieltrutherxxx]

INTRODUCTION...

Hello. I am XxXdestieltrutherXxX. My pro noun is any. I am a person of many stories, of many lives even. It was in Tumblr I found a cave to live in. Fandom- truly one of the many wonders this world has to offer us, on par with the pyramids, the sun, the sin and the ancient gardens of Mesopotamia. How can one describe something so marvelous? Oh, Fandom I live and die for you. I have died for you (a few of my past lives have died because of fandom(especially because of the Homeric Oral Tradition Universe Fandom (HOTUF for short). Heh, those OdysseusxPenelope shippers are savages)) Fandom brings people together, it can make us forget about the invisible lines that divide us humans, and it can make us care again. That's why I made this blog (again. accidentally deleted the one I had before.) Proceed with caution.

DNI:

Homestucks. You guys are scary.

Dr. Who fans. You bring shame to us Superwholock fans

Sherlock fans. No, you're not as clever as you think you are, get away pretentious hipsters, and leave my Superwholock in peace.

Supernatural fans. I'm a spn fan. I know how you guys are mentally.

TERFs.

He/She/Theys. Stop being cowards and accept neos into your pro noun.

People who joined Tumblr in the pandemic. Posers.

House MD Fans. No explanation needed.

Real Person Shippers. Weird. Unless the person youre shipping is me. In that case go ahead.

Pro Shippers.

Em*s. Again, posers.

Anti Shippers.

Good Omens fans. Nothing against you, it's just that it was unfair you took #crowley from spn fans.

Sceptics. YES. everything, including the stories I share, is true. Stop wasting time on my asks saying they're tumblr fake stories. Not funny.

Saiouma shippers. I wish I had your confidence.

Epic the Musical fans. Not cool to spread misinformation ab myths.

FANDOMS/THINGS IM INTO:

Superwholock. :3

Supernatural (very ashame of this one, I don't think I'll post ab this one a lot)

Destiel 0///////0

Hamilton (especially Lams. They're so UwU coded)

Super Mario Maker 2.

Dean Winchester 7u7

Danganronpa (SDR2 is the best one, V3 very very close behind but Hajime makes SDR2 better)

Goth culture. I admire you, rawr 030

Harry Potter (I haven't read any of the books or seen the movies! please don't spoil me!!)

Castiel Supernatural

Tumblr fake stories. I know not all of you are fake. I believe you.

Patrochilles. THEYRE SO UWU

Lin Manuel Miranda.

Sammy Winchester

Crowley king of hell (NOT GOOD OMENS CHARACTER)

TikTok (guilty pleasure q///q)

Sonic the Hedgehog (2006)

That's all!! thanks for passing by :3

[winterspellsfrozenkit]

In case, you see either my two posts about Epic: The Musical about "There Are Other Ways" and "I'm Not Sorry For Loving You", I want to clarify that I have nothing but respect for Jay's ability to write music. He's talented and he knows what he's doing as the songs are very clever in both music and lyrics and knowing the story makes the songs more impactful. The writing is for "There Are Other Ways" and "I'm Not Sorry For Loving You" shows that Jay knows EXACTLY the situation happening and how to disguise it to hide the nature of what is happening.

That said, I despise these songs because having read the Odyssey, I know what is going on when the songs are happening, and when Jay released snippets of these songs, I saw a lot of people misunderstand the situation because they don't have the same context I do, which is what drives my aggravation.

The second factor that drives my frustration is I have a strong feeling that people who don't read the Odyssey and hear the album are going to misconstrue Odysseus's character into someone who claims to love his wife, but cheats (which he doesn't do) and use these songs as their "proof". Even before Epic came out, people have called Odysseus a cheater and I will admit, I get a touch heated about that because this is my stance: If people want to claim Medusa's later adaptation from Ovid, Persephone, Io, etc. are victims, then they should recognize that Odysseus is one too. If they refuse to acknowledge Odysseus as one, they need to do some soul searching and ask some REALLY uncomfy questions.

I want to be clear: I'm not upset at Jay's writing nor do I think his writing is terrible. Yes, I said "I'm Not Sorry For Loving You" is the worst song ever, but if you read the post, I try to make it clear I'm not coming after Jay's writing, I'm trying to make it clear what the song actually is, rather than what it innocently looks like. Another song I would call the worst song ever is Into The Woods "Any Moment" and that's because of what the song is. Writing's great, music's great, but I still think that song is the worst song ever in Into The Woods given it's Cinderella's Prince looking to incite the Baker's Wife to cheat with him.

Ever since I've read the Odyssey, I was horrified that Odysseus has been treated like a cheater a lot. To be clear, Odysseus does shady, sneaky stuff, but where his feelings on his wife and son are concerned, that is the one consistent. He wants to be with his family. In short, those two posts are basically this:

[winterspellsfrozenkit]

Oh God

Their are other ways is out

I was really hoping Jay wouldn’t go the route he did but he did :(

I love the music behind the part where Odysseus turns Searcy down but on the other hand… He completely completely erased the part where Odysseus was straight up SA’d

I… Jay I love you, BUT WHYYYY

So I listened to ""There Are Other Ways" and I have three theories to WHY Jay changed it to Odysseus breaking down and turning down Circe. 1. The year long timeskip was difficult to explain, 2. Sexual coercion/abuse is NEVER a comfy subject and he might've been worried about not handling it well, and 3. It helps ensure people understand Odysseus LOVES Penelope. Let's me explain:

Reason 1. The year long time skip is difficult to explain: In the Odyssey, we don't know what happened while Odysseus and his men stayed on Circe's island for a year, just that they were resting and recovering, but the men have to remind Odysseus about going home which makes me think something happened to make Odysseus either forget or become wary to leave, which is odd because Penelope and Telemachus are his big drive, so not wanting to leave immediately is out of character for him OR the men weren't going to move until they were ready and he was waiting for them.

Reason 2. Sexual coercion and abuse are really difficult to handle: When Hazbin Hotel snippets got leaked, everyone flipped out on Vivziepop for part of the Poison song that got leaked. Keep in mind that Vivziepop was a victim of abuse and parts of Angel's story with Valentino was pulled from her past with her toxic ex. Even so, people flipped out on her on social media for the leak, saying she was making light or not showing how awful sexual abuse is, but when Poison came out in full, people saw it really was showing the ugliness and horror of the situation. Circe's situation is more coercive and coercive situations are awful in their own right because they give the illusion of choice to the point people will blame the victim because "Well, why did they say yes? They could've said no." because people don't see or recognize the coercion. As a result, Jay might've been wary about handling the situation poorly or how fans would react. It does show the insidious nature of coercion, having Odysseus is agreeing there's no puppet, but he has to say that to get his men back and by having him breakdown and say "I can't!", it shows how much this is actually hurting him. Epic doesn't have accompanying visuals in the way Poison does, so showing how much being pushed to sleep with Circe had harmed Odysseus is really difficult with just dialogue alone.

Reason 3. It helps ensure people understand Odysseus LOVES Penelope. If you go around Tumblr, you'll see SO MANY PEOPLE BLAME ODYSSEUS FOR CIRCE AND CALYPSO. They claim Penelope deserves better than Odysseus, ignoring the sexual coercion and rape that happened to him. They shame him and say he claimed to love his wife, but slept with two other women the first chance he got. By choosing to have Odysseus breakdown at the idea of being pushed to sleep with Circe, it attacks that idea that Odysseus would choose to cheat on Penelope. It shows the true heart of Odysseus: the man who went to woo Helen of Troy, but decided her cousin, Penelope, was who he wanted to marry; the man who risked becoming an oath-breaker to stay with his wife and infant son when he was called to war; the man who didn't stay with Circe and refused immortality and staying with Calypso to go home to his mortal wife.

Adaptations are difficult. I wouldn't say it was a complete erasure, because it leads up to it, but just has Odysseus breakdown before anything happened. Honestly, I'm not sure how I feel about it, because Odysseus was a victim and that shouldn't be forgotten, but I do think the song drove home that emotional impact this situation had on Odysseus in that this situation was harmful to Odysseus and that he wouldn't choose to cheat which is important. I'm a writer, not a song writer, but a writer and the idea of tackling the complex emotions of that situation and all the effects it has on a victim in one song is daunting. It's why a lot of people choose to avoid depicting situations of coercion and abuse. There's so many complex emotions tied up in situations like this and how do you accurately depict that in one song that has no visuals and is only dialogue? How do you explain the emotional pain and feelings of helplessness a victim is going through? What emotion is going to be the main one coming from the victim? Grief? Guilt? Rage? Fear? Which is more important: the event itself happening or the emotional impact?

Jay might've not gone fully into the event, but he did show the emotional impact and how much this situation hurt Odysseus with him breaking down and begging Circe to grant him and his men mercy. He showed Odysseus struggling with what he had to do to save his men. Comparing to most adaptations, this one actually does show some of the emotional pain Odysseus must've had in the situation, rather than painting it as Odysseus romancing Circe or cheating on Penelope. It's not perfect, but it gives Odysseus more understanding in the situation than most adaptations do, so I'm relieved and grateful for that.

[winterspellsfrozenkit]

So I saw a reblog of my gripes about "There Are Other Ways" in Epic: The Musical from @nerdygirl2023 where they mentioned how they get annoyed by Calypso's song, but mentioned they haven't read the Odyssey yet, but I HAVE and I'm about to REALLY RUIN "I'm Not Sorry For Loving You" and I am NOT going to mince words! So, Trigger Warnings for Rape and Sexual Abuse.

So, why this song, despite being pretty is the WORST SONG EVER? I have MANY reasons. I'll start with the context in the story and then I'll dissect her song lyrics. It's going to be a LONG POST and I'm going to get salty so I'll add a TLDR at the end.

First, while Odysseus was on Calypso's island, she RAPED him. To prove my point, I'll give you six (double the amount I did for Circe's Coercion) and I'll bold the part that proves it was rape.

"So saying, the strong Argeiphontes departed, and the queenly nymph went to the great-hearted Odysseus, when she had heard the message of Zeus. Him she found sitting on the shore, and his eyes were never dry of tears, and his sweet life was ebbing away, as he longed mournfully for his return, for the nymph was no longer pleasing in his sight. By night indeed he would sleep by her side perforce in the hollow caves, unwilling beside the willing nymph, but by day he would sit on the rocks and the sands, racking his soul with tears and groans and griefs, and he would look over the unresting sea, shedding tears."

2. "On this he took his leave, and Calypso went out to look for Odysseus, for she had heard Zeus' message. She found him sitting upon the beach with his eyes ever filled with tears, and dying of sheer home sickness; for he had got tired of Calypso, and though he was forced to sleep with her in the cave by night, it was she, not he, that would have it so. As for the day time, he spent it on the rocks and on the sea shore, weeping, crying aloud for his despair, and always looking out upon the sea."

3. "With this the mighty slayer of Argus departed, and the lovely Nymph, mindful of Zeus’ command, looked for valiant Odysseus. She found him sitting on the shore, his eyes as ever wet with tears, life’s sweetness ebbing from him in longing for his home, since the Nymph no longer pleased him. He was forced to sleep with her in the hollow cave at night, as she wished though he did not, but by day he sat among rocks or sand, tormenting himself with tears, groans and anguish, gazing with wet eyes at the restless sea."

4. "And in a moment vanished from her eye, The nymph, obedient to divine command, To seek Ulysses, paced along the sand, Him pensive on the lonely beach she found, With streaming eyes in briny torrents drown’d, And inly pining for his native shore; For now the soft enchantress pleased no more; For now, reluctant, and constrained by charms, Absent he lay in her desiring arms, In slumber wore the heavy night away, On rocks and shores consumed the tedious day; There sate all desolate, and sighed alone, With echoing sorrows made the mountains groan. And roll’d his eyes o’er all the restless main, Till, dimmed with rising grief, they streamed again."

5."The killer of Argus, the gods’ great messenger, said these words and left. The regal nymph Calypso, once she heard Zeus’s message, went away to find  great-hearted Odysseus. She met him on the shore, sitting by the sea, his eyes always full of tears,  because he was squandering his sweet life, mourning for his return. The nymph no longer gave him joy. At night he slept beside her in the hollow cave, as he was forced to do—not of his own free will, though she was keen enough. But in the daylight hours he’d sit down on the rocks along the beach, his heart straining with tears and groans and sorrow, as he gazed, through his tears, over the restless sea."

6. "The strong god glittering left her as he spoke, and now her ladyship, having given heed to Zeus’s mandate, went to find Odysseus in his stone seat to seaward—tear on tear brimming in his eyes. The sweet days of his life time were running out in anguish over his exile, for long ago the nymph had ceased to please. Though he fought shy of her and her desire, he lay with her each night, for she compelled him. But when day came he sat on the rocky shore and broke his own heart groaning, with eyes wet scanning the bare horizon of the sea."

Every translation I can find, says Odysseus was NOT WILLING to sleep with her, but SHE FORCED HIM. Now, tell me, dear reader: If Odysseus was the woman and Calypso was the man, what would we immediately call this? Oh, that's right. RAPE. That's RAPE. But far, far too often, I see posts claiming Odysseus doesn't deserve Penelope because she was faithful to him, while he slept with Circe (who he was COERCED to do so with) and Calypso (who RAPED him).

Now, onto the lyrics. These lyrics. I hate these lyrics so much that they put my disgust and disdain for "There Are Other Ways" TO SHAME. First verse, not so iffy, but the Chorus? OH, I HATE THIS CHORUS.

[CALYPSO] And if I pushed you Or if I came on too strong Or if I ambushed you For that, I'll say I was wrong And if you hate me Then I am sorry my love's too much for you But I'm not sorry for loving you

"Came on too strong"? "TOO STRONG"?! Calypso RAPED him and these lyrics downplay so hard what she did to him. Then she goes, "Well, if you hate me, I'm sorry my love's too much for you to handle." EXCUSE ME? That is so MANIPULATIVE that it makes my stomach curl. I've had toxic platonic relationships and this is a COMMON TACTIC. Instead of acknowledging, the abuse is downplayed as just Calypso was being a bit clingy or too forward with her feelings, surprising Odysseus, rather than her sexually assaulting the poor man and if he hates her, well he just couldn't handle her, so it's his fault. She just loved him sooooo much, so she doesn't have to be apologize for that. EUGH.

Onto the next verse!

[ODYSSEUS] Calypso

[CALYPSO] Let me speak I spent my whole life here Was cast away when I was young Alone for a hundred years I had no friends but the sky and sun So when you washed ashore I thought for sure that you were my dream come true I thought I knew

So before Odysseus can even get a word in edgewise, she cuts him off. She doesn't let him say ANYTHING about how he felt about what she did to him before she starts telling him how awful her life was before he washed up on her island. That's also a manipulation tactic: Look, my life was so sad and it was just awful before you came into my life and you made it so much better, so doesn't it excuse my actions and the harm I caused you? NO. NO, IT DOES NOT.

Onto the last part (I'm cutting the Ensemble because it's just repeating her lines):

[CALYPSO] I'm not sorry I'm angry and tired and restless and sad I'm stuck in the moments I swore that we had I wish you would chase me Or try to embrace me For once, I wish you would lie and say

[ODYSSEUS] I love you

[CALYPSO] You do?

[ODYSSEUS] But not in the way that you want me to

[CALYPSO] I hate that I fell in love with you Why did I fall in love with you? What do I do with this love for you? How am I supposed to get over you? Why in the world won't you love me too?

In the verse, she says "I wish you would chase me, or try to embrace me. For once, I wish you would lie and say" which is Calypso acknowledging that she knows Odysseus doesn't love her and never has. He was kind to her and never lied to her about how he felt, but she used her feelings and his kindness to pursue her wants and desires over Odysseus's health and happiness.

Then, Odysseus finally tells her what she wants to hear, but he admits that it's not how she wants. He loves her as a friend or as someone who helped him when he was at his lowest, but he does not view her as a romantic partner. She gets angry, but it's that last line that makes me so furious. "Why in the world won't you love me too?"

Odysseus was raped. He was violated. His consent was thrown out the window and he was still polite to her; the person that took away his consent nightly to the point that he would sit on the beach EVERY DAY and cry, just wishing he could GO HOME where he can feel SAFE. And Calypso can't even comprehend that she harmed him so badly that he was wasting away from the grief and pain. She just complains that he won't love her back and it sucks.

"I'm Not Sorry For Loving You"? SHE SHOULD BE, BECAUSE SHE DIDN'T LOVE HIM ENOUGH TO ACTUALLY CARE ABOUT HIM. Loving someone, really loving someone, means you care about that person and even if it emotionally hurts you because you know they won't love you in the way you want, you still want them to be happy and you do what you can to be a positive influence in their life, without trodding on their agency. You may not agree with their choices, but you still are kind and respectful, and you don't use your feelings as an excuse to force your wants/will on them or harm them.

TLDR: Calypso is Odysseus's rapist and "I'm Not Sorry For Loving You" is an abusive, manipulative song that isn't a proper apology to him in any sense of the word. It shows that, above all else, while Calypso says she loves Odysseus, she still values herself and her feelings over him.

[pokemonacademy]

And you know what? That's what makes OdysseusxPenelope SO GOOD. In a time where marriage was seen as a means for birthing heirs, these two married for LOVE. They were already outliers to begin with. You can tell from The Odyssey that they are treated as equals and loved each other; Odysseus tests Penelope of her loyalty, but Penelope, in turn, also tests Odysseus of his identity, and when all is said and done, they just hug out each other and cry into each others' arms- Odysseus had some claim to the Spartan throne through marriage with Penelope; her father tried to convince him to stay, but he refused. Penelope repeatedly addresses Odysseus as 'her joy' when she laments over his loss. Odysseus refused Calypso's offer of immortality to return to his mortal wife. Clearly, they got together for reasons more than reproduction.

[winterspellsfrozenkit]

TRIGGER WARNING: Mentions of sexual coercion and SA. 

Y’know what? I can TELL when people either haven’t read the Odyssey or they have, but didn’t understand the severity of what happened, because Odysseus was a victim of sexual coercion and sexual abuse, and he gets blamed because he wasn’t able to avoid those situations like Penelope was able to. His time with Circe is due to her holding his men, who he is responsible for and needs in order to get home, hostage as animals and having the power to cause him harm, which is not really a scene where he can give informed consent because she’s got him outmatched. Hermes told him that he only way he could get them loose and garner some protection for himself and his men was by threatening to kill her and then using himself as a bargaining chip when she asked him to sleep with her. He was told that he could not flat out refuse her offer because he needed his men back and protection from her because she would bring some form of harm to him if he didn’t get her to promise to not do that. He didn’t have anything else she wanted and if he didn’t bargain, Circe could’ve harmed his men or done something to Odysseus for turning her down. But oh no, obviously he’s a cheater because he bargained with her to make her promise not to harm him or his men instead of flat out telling her no or killing her, which probably would’ve caused more problems seeing as she’s Helios’s daughter and by this point, he’s already got Poseidon mad at him for blinding Polyphemus.

Calypso’s island? Odysseus was forced to sleep with her at night, AGAINST HIS WILL, and would cry bitterly during the day, for SEVEN years, just longing to get back to Penelope and Telemachus. He was treated much like Briseis and the other bride prizes were in the Iliad. But obviously, he, a mortal man, could have fought Calypso, the immortal daughter of Atlas, off right? Not like she might have magical powers to enchant him, cause more trouble for his journey, or force him to do things against his will. Oh wait... She does. 

To top it all off, he tells Penelope everything that happened to him. He tells her about Circe and Calypso and doesn’t try to hide it. It says after he finishes telling her all about it, ‘a deep sleep took hold upon him and eased the burden of his sorrows’. These were painful memories for him, and he shares them with Penelope, who doesn’t hold those encounters against him. 

How about we don’t blame the victim just because he’s a man? This attitude is often why men don’t talk about being victims. Because people blame them for not stopping what happened to them. Why didn’t he fight them off? Why didn’t he, the wisest of the Greeks, figure a way out of it? He literally could not. He was in situations where trying to con his way out of those situations or using physical force wouldn’t have helped him and possibly could’ve done more damage. If you can understand that Zeus’s victims were victims, then you should get that Odysseus, despite being a man, was a victim as well. Odysseus was in situations where he literally could not tell them no. The whole point of the Odyssey is that Odysseus just wants to get home to his wife and son no matter what it’ll cost him to survive and get home. 

Y'know what, fuck Odysseus, Penelope stayed loyal and refused a ton of guys over the course of 20 years while Odysseus was gone, and what does Odysseus do? Bangs the first 2 hot woman he sees. What a dick

[demethinkstoomuch]

Also, can we talk about what a damn fine metaphor the whole tree-bed thing is? While the post above highlights that in terms of the intimate knowledge at play in Penelope’s final test for Odysseus, I always am blown away by just, like...The symbolism? Their marriage bed is made of a living olive tree, their marriage is alive and rooted and life-giving, their marriage bed is a thing which cannot be moved from its proper place in their home, and speaking that is the key by which he is finally, truly home with her, that he is the Odysseus she was waiting for in a way that a feat of strength alone will not prove. And it’s all very obvious and it feels a little like I’m laboring the point to say it out-loud, standard disclaimers about romance and marriage and attitudes about them in Classic Works apply, but it makes me really happy to think of, because that is just really romantic as a detail and symbol!

in the odyssey love is defined by people knowing the intimate details of your life...like odysseus's nurse recognizing him by his scar or penelope testing him by ordering the marriage bed that he carved into a tree to be moved. tons of people have heard the story and triumphs of odysseus but only the few people who love him know the little details about him and that really fucks me up!

[ariel-seagull-wings]

@thealmightyemprex @themousefromfantasyland @the-blue-fairie

So, I LOVE Epic: This Musical and I'm excited for some of the songs in the Circe Saga, but one of TWO songs that I absolutely DESPISE in this musical is coming out and I'm so stressed out about it.

"There Are Other Ways" and "I'm Not Sorry For Loving You" make me so frustrated because it looks like they fall into downplaying the coercion and abuse Odysseus went through because the abusers are women. AND I HATE THAT.

"There Are Other Ways" is a song between a person who has power to force a person into doing what they want (Circe) and their victim (Odysseus), who can only comply. And from what I've read it has the line "There's no puppet here."

It's really clever writing because if you know the story, you know Odysseus is in a precarious situation and he was told by Hermes that when she asked to sleep with him, he needed to do it. Here's three different translations of the moment Hermes tells him "Don't you tell her no" with the warning from Hermes bolded:

"'And I will tell thee all the baneful wiles of Circe. She will mix thee a potion, and cast drugs into the food; but even so she shall not be able to bewitch thee, for the potent herb that I shall give thee will not suffer it. And I will tell thee all. When Circe shall smite thee with her long wand, then do thou draw thy sharp sword from beside thy thigh, and rush upon Circe, as though thou wouldst slay her. And she will be seized with fear, and will bid thee lie with her. Then do not thou thereafter refuse the couch of the goddess, that she may set free thy comrades, and give entertainment to thee. But bid her swear a great oath by the blessed gods, that she will not plot against thee any fresh mischief to thy hurt, lest when she has thee stripped she may render thee a weakling and unmanned.’

“ ‘And I will tell you of all the wicked witchcraft that Circe will try to practice upon you. She will mix a potion for you to drink, and she will drug the meal with which she makes it, but she will not be able to charm you, for the virtue of the herb that I shall give you will prevent her spells from working. I will tell you all about it. When Circe strikes you with her wand, draw your sword and spring upon her as though you were going to kill her. She will then be frightened, and will desire you to go to bed with her; on this you must not directly refuse her, for you want her to set your companions free, and to take good care also of yourself, but you must make her swear solemnly by all the blessed gods that she will plot no further mischief against you, or else when she has got you naked she will unman you and make you fit for nothing.’

"I will tell you all Circe’s fatal wiles. She will mix a drink for you, blending drugs with the food, but even so she will fail to enchant you: the powerful herb I will give you will prevent it. Let me tell you the rest. When Circe strikes you with her length of wand, draw your sharp sword and rush at her, as if you intend to kill her. She will be seized with fear. Then she’ll invite you to her bed, and don’t refuse the goddess’ favours, if you want her to free your men, and care for you too. But make her swear a solemn oath by the blessed gods that she won’t try to harm you with her mischief, lest when you are naked she robs you of courage and manhood.”’

He had no choice in the matter. It was a "you will have to sacrifice yourself OR you will never get your men back and you won't be safe if you don't do it" moment. While Circe's not telling this directly to Odysseus, it's still COERCION because he knows if he says "No, I want to be faithful to my wife" Circe will harm him. But a lot of people don't know that and are going to continue to perpetuate the idea that Odysseus cheated on his wife. 😒 And they're going to use that line of "There's no puppets here" as "proof" that Odysseus cheated.

If you can sympathize with Ovid's later adaptation of Medusa as a victim of Poseidon, but refuse to acknowledge Odysseus was as much a victim of Circe AND Calypso and claim he's cheating... Please, ask yourself: why is that?

[winterspellsfrozenkit]

Since the Wisdom Saga showed in "Love in Paradise" how Calypso just IGNORES Odysseus mentioning Penelope and ignores and giggles at his "No"s. I'm gonna remind people of this again.

And to people who try to argue that she didn't do that to him, may I remind you of this lyric from Calypso in "Love in Paradise": "Soon, into bed we'll climb and spend our time".

The implications of that, especially with how Calypso is treating Odysseus in "Love is Paradise" and knowing what happened in the Odyssey, are chilling.

So I saw a reblog of my gripes about "There Are Other Ways" in Epic: The Musical from @nerdygirl2023 where they mentioned how they get annoyed by Calypso's song, but mentioned they haven't read the Odyssey yet, but I HAVE and I'm about to REALLY RUIN "I'm Not Sorry For Loving You" and I am NOT going to mince words! So, Trigger Warnings for Rape and Sexual Abuse.

So, why this song, despite being pretty is the WORST SONG EVER? I have MANY reasons. I'll start with the context in the story and then I'll dissect her song lyrics. It's going to be a LONG POST and I'm going to get salty so I'll add a TLDR at the end.

First, while Odysseus was on Calypso's island, she RAPED him. To prove my point, I'll give you six (double the amount I did for Circe's Coercion) and I'll bold the part that proves it was rape.

"So saying, the strong Argeiphontes departed, and the queenly nymph went to the great-hearted Odysseus, when she had heard the message of Zeus. Him she found sitting on the shore, and his eyes were never dry of tears, and his sweet life was ebbing away, as he longed mournfully for his return, for the nymph was no longer pleasing in his sight. By night indeed he would sleep by her side perforce in the hollow caves, unwilling beside the willing nymph, but by day he would sit on the rocks and the sands, racking his soul with tears and groans and griefs, and he would look over the unresting sea, shedding tears."

2. "On this he took his leave, and Calypso went out to look for Odysseus, for she had heard Zeus' message. She found him sitting upon the beach with his eyes ever filled with tears, and dying of sheer home sickness; for he had got tired of Calypso, and though he was forced to sleep with her in the cave by night, it was she, not he, that would have it so. As for the day time, he spent it on the rocks and on the sea shore, weeping, crying aloud for his despair, and always looking out upon the sea."

3. "With this the mighty slayer of Argus departed, and the lovely Nymph, mindful of Zeus’ command, looked for valiant Odysseus. She found him sitting on the shore, his eyes as ever wet with tears, life’s sweetness ebbing from him in longing for his home, since the Nymph no longer pleased him. He was forced to sleep with her in the hollow cave at night, as she wished though he did not, but by day he sat among rocks or sand, tormenting himself with tears, groans and anguish, gazing with wet eyes at the restless sea."

4. "And in a moment vanished from her eye, The nymph, obedient to divine command, To seek Ulysses, paced along the sand, Him pensive on the lonely beach she found, With streaming eyes in briny torrents drown’d, And inly pining for his native shore; For now the soft enchantress pleased no more; For now, reluctant, and constrained by charms, Absent he lay in her desiring arms, In slumber wore the heavy night away, On rocks and shores consumed the tedious day; There sate all desolate, and sighed alone, With echoing sorrows made the mountains groan. And roll’d his eyes o’er all the restless main, Till, dimmed with rising grief, they streamed again."

5."The killer of Argus, the gods’ great messenger, said these words and left. The regal nymph Calypso, once she heard Zeus’s message, went away to find  great-hearted Odysseus. She met him on the shore, sitting by the sea, his eyes always full of tears,  because he was squandering his sweet life, mourning for his return. The nymph no longer gave him joy. At night he slept beside her in the hollow cave, as he was forced to do—not of his own free will, though she was keen enough. But in the daylight hours he’d sit down on the rocks along the beach, his heart straining with tears and groans and sorrow, as he gazed, through his tears, over the restless sea."

6. "The strong god glittering left her as he spoke, and now her ladyship, having given heed to Zeus’s mandate, went to find Odysseus in his stone seat to seaward—tear on tear brimming in his eyes. The sweet days of his life time were running out in anguish over his exile, for long ago the nymph had ceased to please. Though he fought shy of her and her desire, he lay with her each night, for she compelled him. But when day came he sat on the rocky shore and broke his own heart groaning, with eyes wet scanning the bare horizon of the sea."

Every translation I can find, says Odysseus was NOT WILLING to sleep with her, but SHE FORCED HIM. Now, tell me, dear reader: If Odysseus was the woman and Calypso was the man, what would we immediately call this? Oh, that's right. RAPE. That's RAPE. But far, far too often, I see posts claiming Odysseus doesn't deserve Penelope because she was faithful to him, while he slept with Circe (who he was COERCED to do so with) and Calypso (who RAPED him).

Now, onto the lyrics. These lyrics. I hate these lyrics so much that they put my disgust and disdain for "There Are Other Ways" TO SHAME. First verse, not so iffy, but the Chorus? OH, I HATE THIS CHORUS.

[CALYPSO] And if I pushed you Or if I came on too strong Or if I ambushed you For that, I'll say I was wrong And if you hate me Then I am sorry my love's too much for you But I'm not sorry for loving you

"Came on too strong"? "TOO STRONG"?! Calypso RAPED him and these lyrics downplay so hard what she did to him. Then she goes, "Well, if you hate me, I'm sorry my love's too much for you to handle." EXCUSE ME? That is so MANIPULATIVE that it makes my stomach curl. I've had toxic platonic relationships and this is a COMMON TACTIC. Instead of acknowledging, the abuse is downplayed as just Calypso was being a bit clingy or too forward with her feelings, surprising Odysseus, rather than her sexually assaulting the poor man and if he hates her, well he just couldn't handle her, so it's his fault. She just loved him sooooo much, so she doesn't have to be apologize for that. EUGH.

Onto the next verse!

[ODYSSEUS] Calypso

[CALYPSO] Let me speak I spent my whole life here Was cast away when I was young Alone for a hundred years I had no friends but the sky and sun So when you washed ashore I thought for sure that you were my dream come true I thought I knew

So before Odysseus can even get a word in edgewise, she cuts him off. She doesn't let him say ANYTHING about how he felt about what she did to him before she starts telling him how awful her life was before he washed up on her island. That's also a manipulation tactic: Look, my life was so sad and it was just awful before you came into my life and you made it so much better, so doesn't it excuse my actions and the harm I caused you? NO. NO, IT DOES NOT.

Onto the last part (I'm cutting the Ensemble because it's just repeating her lines):

[CALYPSO] I'm not sorry I'm angry and tired and restless and sad I'm stuck in the moments I swore that we had I wish you would chase me Or try to embrace me For once, I wish you would lie and say

[ODYSSEUS] I love you

[CALYPSO] You do?

[ODYSSEUS] But not in the way that you want me to

[CALYPSO] I hate that I fell in love with you Why did I fall in love with you? What do I do with this love for you? How am I supposed to get over you? Why in the world won't you love me too?

In the verse, she says "I wish you would chase me, or try to embrace me. For once, I wish you would lie and say" which is Calypso acknowledging that she knows Odysseus doesn't love her and never has. He was kind to her and never lied to her about how he felt, but she used her feelings and his kindness to pursue her wants and desires over Odysseus's health and happiness.

Then, Odysseus finally tells her what she wants to hear, but he admits that it's not how she wants. He loves her as a friend or as someone who helped him when he was at his lowest, but he does not view her as a romantic partner. She gets angry, but it's that last line that makes me so furious. "Why in the world won't you love me too?"

Odysseus was raped. He was violated. His consent was thrown out the window and he was still polite to her; the person that took away his consent nightly to the point that he would sit on the beach EVERY DAY and cry, just wishing he could GO HOME where he can feel SAFE. And Calypso can't even comprehend that she harmed him so badly that he was wasting away from the grief and pain. She just complains that he won't love her back and it sucks.

"I'm Not Sorry For Loving You"? SHE SHOULD BE, BECAUSE SHE DIDN'T LOVE HIM ENOUGH TO ACTUALLY CARE ABOUT HIM. Loving someone, really loving someone, means you care about that person and even if it emotionally hurts you because you know they won't love you in the way you want, you still want them to be happy and you do what you can to be a positive influence in their life, without trodding on their agency. You may not agree with their choices, but you still are kind and respectful, and you don't use your feelings as an excuse to force your wants/will on them or harm them.

TLDR: Calypso is Odysseus's rapist and "I'm Not Sorry For Loving You" is an abusive, manipulative song that isn't a proper apology to him in any sense of the word. It shows that, above all else, while Calypso says she loves Odysseus, she still values herself and her feelings over him.

[winterspellsfrozenkit]

Vengeance Saga came out and I'm reblogging this again. "I'm Not Sorry For Loving You" IS NOT AN APOLOGY. It's MANIPULATION. Calypso values herself and her feelings over Odysseus and his wants or needs. The song is beautiful, but it's emotional manipulation to try and make Odysseus choose to stay with her because she got told she couldn't keep him and abuse him anymore.

To people who think it made her sympathetic, this is a good example of emotional manipulation. Please learn from it. Bad experiences don't excuse people's actions. It can explain them, but it's not an excuse to make what she did ok. Her being isolated doesn't excuse what she did to Odysseus and it doesn't excuse her trying to manipulate him to stay when she KNOWS he DOES NOT WANT TO. If someone invalidates your feelings by making it your fault because you couldn't handle what they did to you, that's so unhealthy. It's okay to feel bad for her situation, but she is not a good person. She takes from Odysseus the way Zeus took from Io, Europa, and scores of other victims. She's just nice because it's easier to get what you want with kindness and playing on sympathies rather than force. Just because Odysseus is a man doesn't make what he went through any less valid than a female victim. And I hate that people ignore that Homer explicitly stated he was never a willing participant in what she did to him.

In short, I'm over here singing "I'M NOT SORRY ODY'S ESCAPING YOU!!"

So I saw a reblog of my gripes about "There Are Other Ways" in Epic: The Musical from @nerdygirl2023 where they mentioned how they get annoyed by Calypso's song, but mentioned they haven't read the Odyssey yet, but I HAVE and I'm about to REALLY RUIN "I'm Not Sorry For Loving You" and I am NOT going to mince words! So, Trigger Warnings for Rape and Sexual Abuse.

So, why this song, despite being pretty is the WORST SONG EVER? I have MANY reasons. I'll start with the context in the story and then I'll dissect her song lyrics. It's going to be a LONG POST and I'm going to get salty so I'll add a TLDR at the end.

First, while Odysseus was on Calypso's island, she RAPED him. To prove my point, I'll give you six (double the amount I did for Circe's Coercion) and I'll bold the part that proves it was rape.

"So saying, the strong Argeiphontes departed, and the queenly nymph went to the great-hearted Odysseus, when she had heard the message of Zeus. Him she found sitting on the shore, and his eyes were never dry of tears, and his sweet life was ebbing away, as he longed mournfully for his return, for the nymph was no longer pleasing in his sight. By night indeed he would sleep by her side perforce in the hollow caves, unwilling beside the willing nymph, but by day he would sit on the rocks and the sands, racking his soul with tears and groans and griefs, and he would look over the unresting sea, shedding tears."

2. "On this he took his leave, and Calypso went out to look for Odysseus, for she had heard Zeus' message. She found him sitting upon the beach with his eyes ever filled with tears, and dying of sheer home sickness; for he had got tired of Calypso, and though he was forced to sleep with her in the cave by night, it was she, not he, that would have it so. As for the day time, he spent it on the rocks and on the sea shore, weeping, crying aloud for his despair, and always looking out upon the sea."

3. "With this the mighty slayer of Argus departed, and the lovely Nymph, mindful of Zeus’ command, looked for valiant Odysseus. She found him sitting on the shore, his eyes as ever wet with tears, life’s sweetness ebbing from him in longing for his home, since the Nymph no longer pleased him. He was forced to sleep with her in the hollow cave at night, as she wished though he did not, but by day he sat among rocks or sand, tormenting himself with tears, groans and anguish, gazing with wet eyes at the restless sea."

4. "And in a moment vanished from her eye, The nymph, obedient to divine command, To seek Ulysses, paced along the sand, Him pensive on the lonely beach she found, With streaming eyes in briny torrents drown’d, And inly pining for his native shore; For now the soft enchantress pleased no more; For now, reluctant, and constrained by charms, Absent he lay in her desiring arms, In slumber wore the heavy night away, On rocks and shores consumed the tedious day; There sate all desolate, and sighed alone, With echoing sorrows made the mountains groan. And roll’d his eyes o’er all the restless main, Till, dimmed with rising grief, they streamed again."

5."The killer of Argus, the gods’ great messenger, said these words and left. The regal nymph Calypso, once she heard Zeus’s message, went away to find  great-hearted Odysseus. She met him on the shore, sitting by the sea, his eyes always full of tears,  because he was squandering his sweet life, mourning for his return. The nymph no longer gave him joy. At night he slept beside her in the hollow cave, as he was forced to do—not of his own free will, though she was keen enough. But in the daylight hours he’d sit down on the rocks along the beach, his heart straining with tears and groans and sorrow, as he gazed, through his tears, over the restless sea."

6. "The strong god glittering left her as he spoke, and now her ladyship, having given heed to Zeus’s mandate, went to find Odysseus in his stone seat to seaward—tear on tear brimming in his eyes. The sweet days of his life time were running out in anguish over his exile, for long ago the nymph had ceased to please. Though he fought shy of her and her desire, he lay with her each night, for she compelled him. But when day came he sat on the rocky shore and broke his own heart groaning, with eyes wet scanning the bare horizon of the sea."

Every translation I can find, says Odysseus was NOT WILLING to sleep with her, but SHE FORCED HIM. Now, tell me, dear reader: If Odysseus was the woman and Calypso was the man, what would we immediately call this? Oh, that's right. RAPE. That's RAPE. But far, far too often, I see posts claiming Odysseus doesn't deserve Penelope because she was faithful to him, while he slept with Circe (who he was COERCED to do so with) and Calypso (who RAPED him).

Now, onto the lyrics. These lyrics. I hate these lyrics so much that they put my disgust and disdain for "There Are Other Ways" TO SHAME. First verse, not so iffy, but the Chorus? OH, I HATE THIS CHORUS.

[CALYPSO] And if I pushed you Or if I came on too strong Or if I ambushed you For that, I'll say I was wrong And if you hate me Then I am sorry my love's too much for you But I'm not sorry for loving you

"Came on too strong"? "TOO STRONG"?! Calypso RAPED him and these lyrics downplay so hard what she did to him. Then she goes, "Well, if you hate me, I'm sorry my love's too much for you to handle." EXCUSE ME? That is so MANIPULATIVE that it makes my stomach curl. I've had toxic platonic relationships and this is a COMMON TACTIC. Instead of acknowledging, the abuse is downplayed as just Calypso was being a bit clingy or too forward with her feelings, surprising Odysseus, rather than her sexually assaulting the poor man and if he hates her, well he just couldn't handle her, so it's his fault. She just loved him sooooo much, so she doesn't have to be apologize for that. EUGH.

Onto the next verse!

[ODYSSEUS] Calypso

[CALYPSO] Let me speak I spent my whole life here Was cast away when I was young Alone for a hundred years I had no friends but the sky and sun So when you washed ashore I thought for sure that you were my dream come true I thought I knew

So before Odysseus can even get a word in edgewise, she cuts him off. She doesn't let him say ANYTHING about how he felt about what she did to him before she starts telling him how awful her life was before he washed up on her island. That's also a manipulation tactic: Look, my life was so sad and it was just awful before you came into my life and you made it so much better, so doesn't it excuse my actions and the harm I caused you? NO. NO, IT DOES NOT.

Onto the last part (I'm cutting the Ensemble because it's just repeating her lines):

[CALYPSO] I'm not sorry I'm angry and tired and restless and sad I'm stuck in the moments I swore that we had I wish you would chase me Or try to embrace me For once, I wish you would lie and say

[ODYSSEUS] I love you

[CALYPSO] You do?

[ODYSSEUS] But not in the way that you want me to

[CALYPSO] I hate that I fell in love with you Why did I fall in love with you? What do I do with this love for you? How am I supposed to get over you? Why in the world won't you love me too?

In the verse, she says "I wish you would chase me, or try to embrace me. For once, I wish you would lie and say" which is Calypso acknowledging that she knows Odysseus doesn't love her and never has. He was kind to her and never lied to her about how he felt, but she used her feelings and his kindness to pursue her wants and desires over Odysseus's health and happiness.

Then, Odysseus finally tells her what she wants to hear, but he admits that it's not how she wants. He loves her as a friend or as someone who helped him when he was at his lowest, but he does not view her as a romantic partner. She gets angry, but it's that last line that makes me so furious. "Why in the world won't you love me too?"

Odysseus was raped. He was violated. His consent was thrown out the window and he was still polite to her; the person that took away his consent nightly to the point that he would sit on the beach EVERY DAY and cry, just wishing he could GO HOME where he can feel SAFE. And Calypso can't even comprehend that she harmed him so badly that he was wasting away from the grief and pain. She just complains that he won't love her back and it sucks.

"I'm Not Sorry For Loving You"? SHE SHOULD BE, BECAUSE SHE DIDN'T LOVE HIM ENOUGH TO ACTUALLY CARE ABOUT HIM. Loving someone, really loving someone, means you care about that person and even if it emotionally hurts you because you know they won't love you in the way you want, you still want them to be happy and you do what you can to be a positive influence in their life, without trodding on their agency. You may not agree with their choices, but you still are kind and respectful, and you don't use your feelings as an excuse to force your wants/will on them or harm them.

TLDR: Calypso is Odysseus's rapist and "I'm Not Sorry For Loving You" is an abusive, manipulative song that isn't a proper apology to him in any sense of the word. It shows that, above all else, while Calypso says she loves Odysseus, she still values herself and her feelings over him.

[winterspellsfrozenkit]

Oh, I'm not talking about the musical here. I know that the musical knows exactly what's going on and is very clever in how it's handling it, I said so in another post. That said, I've seen people in comments of Hera's verse with "Never once has he cheated on his wife", saying that Athena lied to Hera, because of Circe and Calypso.

It's that perception that Odysseus cheated that I despise. People will claim Medusa is a victim by Poseidon and Athena cursed her for it, yet that was a later addition by the Roman Poet Ovid, because Ovid was making commentary about the political powers in his time that he didn't like by retelling myths as "gods toy with the lives of mortals and screw them over so badly that their lives are ruined". Before that, Medusa was ALWAYS an ugly Gorgon and never had that lore attached to her.

People will rather accept the Roman addition to Medusa's lore, where she was attacked by Poseidon, but refuse to acknowledge Odysseus's situation in the Odyssey for what it was. I don't care for that.

I think it's really icky to only acknowledge the victims of the men of the Greek Pantheon in Greek mythology or to just acknowledge female victims. The Odyssey is an OLD story, but the common perception about Circe and Calypso situations is Odysseus cheated, not that Circe and Calypso were being like Zeus or Poseidon or a LONG list of members of the Pantheon, who take who they want without regard to the victim or force people into relationships, and that Odysseus was their victim.

So, I LOVE Epic: This Musical and I'm excited for some of the songs in the Circe Saga, but one of TWO songs that I absolutely DESPISE in this musical is coming out and I'm so stressed out about it.

"There Are Other Ways" and "I'm Not Sorry For Loving You" make me so frustrated because it looks like they fall into downplaying the coercion and abuse Odysseus went through because the abusers are women. AND I HATE THAT.

"There Are Other Ways" is a song between a person who has power to force a person into doing what they want (Circe) and their victim (Odysseus), who can only comply. And from what I've read it has the line "There's no puppet here."

It's really clever writing because if you know the story, you know Odysseus is in a precarious situation and he was told by Hermes that when she asked to sleep with him, he needed to do it. Here's three different translations of the moment Hermes tells him "Don't you tell her no" with the warning from Hermes bolded:

"'And I will tell thee all the baneful wiles of Circe. She will mix thee a potion, and cast drugs into the food; but even so she shall not be able to bewitch thee, for the potent herb that I shall give thee will not suffer it. And I will tell thee all. When Circe shall smite thee with her long wand, then do thou draw thy sharp sword from beside thy thigh, and rush upon Circe, as though thou wouldst slay her. And she will be seized with fear, and will bid thee lie with her. Then do not thou thereafter refuse the couch of the goddess, that she may set free thy comrades, and give entertainment to thee. But bid her swear a great oath by the blessed gods, that she will not plot against thee any fresh mischief to thy hurt, lest when she has thee stripped she may render thee a weakling and unmanned.’

“ ‘And I will tell you of all the wicked witchcraft that Circe will try to practice upon you. She will mix a potion for you to drink, and she will drug the meal with which she makes it, but she will not be able to charm you, for the virtue of the herb that I shall give you will prevent her spells from working. I will tell you all about it. When Circe strikes you with her wand, draw your sword and spring upon her as though you were going to kill her. She will then be frightened, and will desire you to go to bed with her; on this you must not directly refuse her, for you want her to set your companions free, and to take good care also of yourself, but you must make her swear solemnly by all the blessed gods that she will plot no further mischief against you, or else when she has got you naked she will unman you and make you fit for nothing.’

"I will tell you all Circe’s fatal wiles. She will mix a drink for you, blending drugs with the food, but even so she will fail to enchant you: the powerful herb I will give you will prevent it. Let me tell you the rest. When Circe strikes you with her length of wand, draw your sharp sword and rush at her, as if you intend to kill her. She will be seized with fear. Then she’ll invite you to her bed, and don’t refuse the goddess’ favours, if you want her to free your men, and care for you too. But make her swear a solemn oath by the blessed gods that she won’t try to harm you with her mischief, lest when you are naked she robs you of courage and manhood.”’

He had no choice in the matter. It was a "you will have to sacrifice yourself OR you will never get your men back and you won't be safe if you don't do it" moment. While Circe's not telling this directly to Odysseus, it's still COERCION because he knows if he says "No, I want to be faithful to my wife" Circe will harm him. But a lot of people don't know that and are going to continue to perpetuate the idea that Odysseus cheated on his wife. 😒 And they're going to use that line of "There's no puppets here" as "proof" that Odysseus cheated.

If you can sympathize with Ovid's later adaptation of Medusa as a victim of Poseidon, but refuse to acknowledge Odysseus was as much a victim of Circe AND Calypso and claim he's cheating... Please, ask yourself: why is that?

[pokemonacademy]

They did step away and got rid of the whole blog. Anyway, ODYSSEUSxPENELOPE SUPREMACY