#odysseus chose penelope over helen of troy

[winterspellsfrozenkit]

So, I LOVE Epic: This Musical and I'm excited for some of the songs in the Circe Saga, but one of TWO songs that I absolutely DESPISE in this musical is coming out and I'm so stressed out about it.

"There Are Other Ways" and "I'm Not Sorry For Loving You" make me so frustrated because it looks like they fall into downplaying the coercion and abuse Odysseus went through because the abusers are women. AND I HATE THAT.

"There Are Other Ways" is a song between a person who has power to force a person into doing what they want (Circe) and their victim (Odysseus), who can only comply. And from what I've read it has the line "There's no puppet here."

It's really clever writing because if you know the story, you know Odysseus is in a precarious situation and he was told by Hermes that when she asked to sleep with him, he needed to do it. Here's three different translations of the moment Hermes tells him "Don't you tell her no" with the warning from Hermes bolded:

"'And I will tell thee all the baneful wiles of Circe. She will mix thee a potion, and cast drugs into the food; but even so she shall not be able to bewitch thee, for the potent herb that I shall give thee will not suffer it. And I will tell thee all. When Circe shall smite thee with her long wand, then do thou draw thy sharp sword from beside thy thigh, and rush upon Circe, as though thou wouldst slay her. And she will be seized with fear, and will bid thee lie with her. Then do not thou thereafter refuse the couch of the goddess, that she may set free thy comrades, and give entertainment to thee. But bid her swear a great oath by the blessed gods, that she will not plot against thee any fresh mischief to thy hurt, lest when she has thee stripped she may render thee a weakling and unmanned.’

“ ‘And I will tell you of all the wicked witchcraft that Circe will try to practice upon you. She will mix a potion for you to drink, and she will drug the meal with which she makes it, but she will not be able to charm you, for the virtue of the herb that I shall give you will prevent her spells from working. I will tell you all about it. When Circe strikes you with her wand, draw your sword and spring upon her as though you were going to kill her. She will then be frightened, and will desire you to go to bed with her; on this you must not directly refuse her, for you want her to set your companions free, and to take good care also of yourself, but you must make her swear solemnly by all the blessed gods that she will plot no further mischief against you, or else when she has got you naked she will unman you and make you fit for nothing.’

"I will tell you all Circe’s fatal wiles. She will mix a drink for you, blending drugs with the food, but even so she will fail to enchant you: the powerful herb I will give you will prevent it. Let me tell you the rest. When Circe strikes you with her length of wand, draw your sharp sword and rush at her, as if you intend to kill her. She will be seized with fear. Then she’ll invite you to her bed, and don’t refuse the goddess’ favours, if you want her to free your men, and care for you too. But make her swear a solemn oath by the blessed gods that she won’t try to harm you with her mischief, lest when you are naked she robs you of courage and manhood.”’

He had no choice in the matter. It was a "you will have to sacrifice yourself OR you will never get your men back and you won't be safe if you don't do it" moment. While Circe's not telling this directly to Odysseus, it's still COERCION because he knows if he says "No, I want to be faithful to my wife" Circe will harm him. But a lot of people don't know that and are going to continue to perpetuate the idea that Odysseus cheated on his wife. 😒 And they're going to use that line of "There's no puppets here" as "proof" that Odysseus cheated.

If you can sympathize with Ovid's later adaptation of Medusa as a victim of Poseidon, but refuse to acknowledge Odysseus was as much a victim of Circe AND Calypso and claim he's cheating... Please, ask yourself: why is that?

[winterspellsfrozenkit]

As someone who's harbored a deep dislike and disgust for how Calypso is written in a lot of media where's a pitiable person who got her heart broken by Odysseus and don't we feel so bad for her, I'M SO GLAD EPIC MADE IT CLEAR TO THE AUDIENCE HOW CALYPSO IGNORED ODYSSEUS WHEN HE SAID "NO" AND KEPT SAYING "NO".

SHE IGNORED HIS NO AND TOOK HIS CONSENT AWAY FROM HIM. HE WASN'T JUST ON THAT LEDGE JUST FROM THE TRAUMA OF HIS TRAVELS.

God, love in paradise made me feel sick to my stomach in ways you couldn't imagine. Like my god, I have never been so scared for Odysseus than in that moment- and don't get me started of Calypso she gave me chills.

The way that she pointedly ignored Odysseus words when he told her Penelope was his wife, and how she blatantly ignored his rejections like he was a cute animal that didn't know any better. My god, I truly think she is the scariest god in this musical and fully encompass how terrifying they can be for a mortal who can't fight back.

Like my god just let him go back home!!!!! He doesn't deserve this!!!!!

[fandomsandfeminism]

What do you think Penelope thought of Clytemnestra?

They were cousins. Both engaged as a consolation prize to men who had courted Helen, men who had sworn an oath to go to war to protect Helen's marriage. Both semi-divine princesses of Sparta, married off to foreign kings.

Odysseus, who very nearly killed their son in order to avoid the war, but couldn't. (He nearly avoided his oath by feigning madness, but had to abandon the ruse because it endangered baby Telemachus) In sparing Telemachus, condemned himself to war.

Agamenmon, who made the choice to sacrifice his daughter in order to ensure the war could begin and their oath kept. In killing Iphigenia, he placated Artemis and allowed the fleet to set sail for Troy.

Penelope was left with the memory of a husband who loved their son more than peace, and she stayed faithful.

Clytemnestra was left with the memory of a husband who chose war over their daughter, and she took a lover and planned her vengeance.

Do you think Penelople condemned her cousin, or empathized? Do you think she would have done the same thing, if their fates had been reversed? Do you think she sometimes wondered what would have happened if their husbands had chosen differently, or why such a thing was a choice given to husbands at all?

[takaraphoenix]

Imagine a Shared Cinematic Greek Mythology Universe

Franchises are a huge thing these days. Everyone wants one. Marvel did it best, DC is... trying to get the hang of it and Universal, honestly I don’t know what that mess is supposed to be at the end of the day.

Comics offer this kind of thing. And what else offers it would be mythology. I have never seen a good movie about Greek mythology. And there are so many different tales to tale and so many different heroes to introduce.

Now, let me propose to you a 13 movie shared cinematic universe for Greek mythology.

Herakles: Birth of a Hero

Of course, we’d kickstart our shared universe with the household name of Herakles. Because everyone knows that name, knows that hero. He can get butts in seats to pique the interest of the people.

But I want more than just the average tale. I want some focus on his backstory too. I mean, holy Hades the fact that he literally has a twin-brother and that Herakles is just a title and not his actual name - born Alcaeus, thank you very much - are so easily forgotten and just ignored. Do it right. Do it rich and detailed.

A simple origin story as the beginning, of Alcaeus, growing up with his big sister Laonome and his twin-brother Iphicles, listening to the heroic tales of his great-grandfather/half-brother Perseus. Dreaming to be like him. Setting out to become the great Herakles.

We cover some of his labors, after all he does have twelve of them and all twelve in one movie is just gonna overcrowd it with plot. So have a slow set-up and let’s go with maybe three or four labors. Because this is a franchise, so we can divide his tales into like a trilogy.

We know there are 12 labors to finish, but this movie ends semi-rounded up. He found one of his various lovers - let’s go with Megara, because she is the most famous and does for a great set-up for the second movie - he seems ready to settle down and be happy.

In the post-credit scene, we see a vicious Hera, watching from above - teasing that she’s not going to stand for his happiness.

Theseus: The daughters of Zeus

Theseus is up next. I also see that one as a trilogy - though, of course, as with the MCU we do not just dash all three of them out one after the other.

First movie in the franchise sees Theseus teaming up with his best friend Pirithous, son of Zeus. They got up to some shit together in the myths, among other, trying to abduct “daughters of Zeus”.

They went to the underworld to abduct Persephone and they also tried to steal Helen of Troy, being fought off by Helen’s brothers Castor and Pollux (cameo back-door introduction of Helen, Castor and Pollux and set-up for the Trojan war movie later down the line).

I think this would be a really fun way to do some world-building, by giving characters that will be important in the future already small cameos. And you get to explore a whole new world in the underworld.

Just a buddy hero movie of two friends getting up to shenanigans.

And, here’s where we get our first little crossover, because when Pirithous and Theseus ventured into the underworld, they got stuck there and then were saved by Herakles who was down there for his twelve labors. So we also have him give a very tiny cameo - really jut one scene, five to ten minutes, he’s not supposed to steal the movie but to establish that yes, these worlds are shared.

Herakles 2: The Labors of Herakles

This movie would be set up in a post-credit scene of Theseus, where after Theseus and Pirithous left the underworld, we see Herakles wrestling the three-headed guard-dog of the underworld. Zerberus, the reason he was in the underworld to begin with.

But that’s his last labor and more of a tease, really.

We start off with the whole driven mad by Hera and killing Megara thing first. And yes, I’m taking liberties with the myths a liiittle here because technically all of Herakles’ labors were given to him by Hera to appease her and to repent for “his” crimes. But as mentioned before, 12 labors in one movie is going to cram it and we do want some action in the first one already.

We cover the other left-over labors he didn’t accomplish in the first movie now. Lots of action, lots of monsters, lots of fighting - and another cameo, because labor number 9 features Herakles going to the Amazons and stealing Queen Hippolyta’s girdle. So we meet the Amazons.

Theseus 2: The Labors of Theseus

Okay, after the origin-esque first Theseus movie, we move on to the one about his more famous heroics - the whole bandit-killing, sow-slaying, wrestling and all that jazz.

The six labors of Theseus.

Throw in Theseus meeting the Amazons too, meaning Hippolyta and her little sister Melanippe get a reoccuring appearance and crossing over between the Herakles and the Theseus franchises. Because the most fun thing about a shared universe is the shared part.

Jason and the Argonauts

Whoop, time for the Avengers/Justice League! Time for the first team-up movie!

Jason assembles a team to go on a long-ass journey to find the Golden Fleece.

Including both Castor and Pollux, as well as Herakles. Among many, many others.

Like the twin sons of Hermes Eurytus and Echion, who I picture as the Weasleys of this universe. Because every good franchise needs two fun brothers.

Then there are Zetes and Calais, the sons of wind-god Boreas.

And Calais’ lover Orpheus, the son of Apollo, who will set up his own stand-alone movie in this.

Also featuring pilot Erginus, son of Poseidon, and Palaomonius, the bronze-smith and son of Hephaestus. Because there’s nothing more fun than a demigod team-up. And yes, I want them to actually use their powers.

And, of course, Jason’s lover the witch Medea (who is also the cousin of Ariadne, so there could be an Easter Egg name-dropping here).

And the most famous female Greek hero - Atalanta.

A wild fun ride follows as they search.

It also serves as a set-up for the Trojan War by re-introducing Castor and Pollux, a set-up for the stand-alone Orpheus movie and the second team-up movie led by Atalanta.

We’d also put a post-credit scene in here to tease Heracles 3, just showing Herakles happy in the arms of a woman.

Orpheus and Eurydice

Keeping it close time-wise, we tie in with the Orpheus stand-alone movie after Jason and the Argonauts.

Orpheus going to the underworld to bring back the love of his life Eurydice after she dies. Him charming Hades and Persephone, who get to make their third appearance after already encountering Herakles and Theseus, with his beautiful voice, but still failing.

Theseus 3: The Labyrinth of the Minotaur

Let’s break the flow a little and bring back Theseus for his third movie - and his most famous story.

Because just because something is the most well-known tale does not mean it has to be the first. That way, we always get stuck with the very same stories being told all the time, because most of the time it never gets past one movie. No. Let’s save Theseus’ most well-known tale to be the third in the franchise - because this is in my head and in my head, the franchise is allowed to expand this far and we do not need to worry about cancellation and such.

Theseus meeting Ariadne and Daedalus and slaying the Minotaur in the labyrinth. You know the story.

Atalanta: Huntress of Artemis

After we previously met Atalanta in Jason and the Argonauts, let’s give the greatest heroine her own stand-alone movie.

After all, she is a famous racer, a great hunter, an Argonaut, a huntress of Artemis and became a minor hunting goddess later on. She’s been busy and her story is worth telling.

In this, I’d like to focus on the huntress-aspect. Maybe include the tale of Artemis and Orion in here and tie that into how Atalanta joined the goddess’ hunt. Have her be trained by Artemis and befriend other huntresses.

Supporting cast would to me include the three daughrers of Boreas - Hekaerge, Loxo and Oupis, as well as Britomartis who’s the daughter of Zeus, and Phylonoe, who is actually not just a huntress but also a sister to Helen, Castor and Pollux.

Achilles: Hero of Sparta

Cue in Castor and Pollux again, after their small Theseus cameo and their supporting roles in Jason and the Argonauts, they are now back for the big story.

We start the story right though.

Eris, pulling a prank on the goddesses on Olympus with the golden apple for “the fairest of them all”. The goddesses pick Paris of Troy and make him chose. After he picks Aphrodite, she promises him the prettiest lady around - Helen of Sparta.

Castor and Pollux alone stand no chance. But they got friends.

Achilles, Patroclus, Odysseus, Francis Ajax and Phoenix.

The Trojan War ensues and in the end, sets up the Odyssey as our friends part ways and Odysseus claims to look forward to seeing his wife Penelope again.

Odysseus: Long Way Home

Taking place directly after Achilles: Hero of Sparta and featuring Odysseus’ ridiculous journey home. Seriously, that guy should have just asked for directions.

Visiting Circe and meeting Calypso and fighting off sirens. All the fun stuff that then pays off by the heartfelt reunion between two lovers long separated.

Atalanta 2: Hunt for the Calydonian Boar

After her supporting role in Jason and the Argonauts and her stand-alone movie, she’s now back to be the one to lead the second team-up movie.

The hunt for the Calydonian Boar was kind of a real big deal back in the day, you know. Everyone participated, everyone wanted to be the one to kill it.

And I mean everyone.

We see the return of not just Theseus but also his buddy Pirithous.

Atalanta’s fellow Argonauts Eurytus and Echion are going to bring all the fun as the comic-relief tricksters again.

Castor and Pollux are back for this one too!

And hey, even Phoenix from the Trojan war will be here.

Because the thing about those big franchises is that more characters need to cross over. If all those characters exist in the same world, how are they always so strictly separated? No. The characters who dabbled in multiple myths are also going to be recognizable crossover characters in this universe.

And in the end, of course, Atalanta was the one to kill it. That’s why this team-up movie is called Atalanta 2.

Herakles 3: God of Olympus

Because before the universe hits its finale, we need a pay-off for the man who started it all.

Last time we saw him, in a post-credit scene, he was holding his recent lover Deianira and being happy. Which, again, Hera does not like.

Deianira accidentally kinda kills him with the poisoned blood of Nessus.

He has to fight. Again. Has to prove himself. Again.

But at the end of this, there is an actual happy ending waiting for him as he is granted godhood and falls in love with the goddess Hebe to live happily ever after on Olympus.

Chiron: Trainer of Heroes

The third and maybe strongest of the team-up movies. The grand finale of the series, you could say. Also the only original idea I’m pitching here; all others are just the myths as they happened, put into a chronological order that would make for a cool movie-verse in my eyes.

The best place for this to start is Chiron.

Because the thing is, Chiron trained and raised most heroes.

Herakles, Theseus, Jason, Achilles, Patroclus, Phoenix, Ajax.

Let’s say the trainer of heroes got into a little trouble and his wife Chariclo - daughter of Apollo and mountain-nymph and also the one who did the whole raising of the heroes while Chiron only did the training because honestly everyone keeps forgetting that this centaur gets babies dumped in his lap and not teens and that it requires more than just hand-to-hand and sword training and that he had a wife who did all of that - assembles a team of the above named heroes to save their trainer, featuring cute flashbacks to them as kids during training.

[theawkwardvirgin]

There weren't many better-suited for one another than Odysseus and Penelope. He chose her over Helen--yes, THAT Helen, whose beauty launched a thousand ships--and she chose him in turn, despite her father asking her to stay.

That's what makes it so tragic, that their time together was so short. Their son was only a tiny thing when that bastard Paris stole Helen away. By the time the war was over, their son was more than ten and they'd spent more time apart than they'd ever spent together.

And when the news came that he'd fallen, at the very end of the war, even as Achilles pursued Hector around the city walls...well. I pity the messenger that had to bring such cursed news.

Everyone expected Penelope to choose a new husband. She'd ruled admirably in her husband's absence, but that was a temporary measure. Ithaca needed a king, and there were many men eager to win her hand. So eager, in fact, that they barely waited for the proper mourning period to end before they descended on her house.

But Penelope did not choose. She told them she had not finished Odysseus's funeral shroud, and she could not possibly choose another husband until her first was properly laid to rest. And who could argue with that? So they waited, and Penelope wove.

She wove the tall, proud walls of Troy. She wove glittering arrays of soldiers, picked out in delicate golden thread. And in the night, she unraveled it all.

She wove the rolling, wine-dark sea. She wove the proud ships with their shining sales, Odysseus's banner waving from the mast. And in the night, she unraveled it all.

She wove shipwrecks and places no man has seen. She wove creatures with too many heads and too few eyes. And in the night, she unraveled it all.

She wove Ithaca, its fields and rolling hills, the waves crashing on its shore. She wove the palace, the home they had made together and she had upheld alone for twenty years. And in the night, she unraveled it all.

And Odysseus came home.

Ithaca and its allies rejoiced. The messengers had been mistaken, they said. Odysseus did survive Troy.

They were wrong.

The Fates stretched Odysseus's thread and cut it short. Charon stretched out his hand for payment. And Odysseus was almost lost.

But faith is a funny thing. It can shape reality, birth gods, create and destroy dynasties.

It can catch a soul on the banks of the Styx, calling louder and more alluring than any siren. It can defy the gods themselves, enduring despite any challenge. It can reach even the Fates, mending a thread that once was cut.

And so Penelope waited, and Penelope wove, and Penelope guided him home.

somewhere in my mind there is an alternate version of the odyssey where odysseus died at troy and it's just his ghost trying so desperately to get back to ithaca. the fates won't let him go home because it's not right for a corpse to want to live

[mountphoenixrp]

We have a new citizen in Mount Phoenix:

                                            Nyx, the Goddess of Night,                                            whose origins stem from Ancient Greece.                                 She is now the owner of the Jade Rabbit Planetarium.

FC NAME/GROUP: Hani/ Exid GOD NAME: Nyx PANTHEON: Greek OCCUPATION: She’s the owner of Jade Rabbit, Planetarium HEIGHT: 5'6 or 168 cm WEIGHT: 50 kg DEFINING FEATURES: She has a small infinite sign tattoo on her right wrist that most people won’t notice.

PERSONALITY: Nyx seems cold and aloof around most people. Perhaps it’s because she’s seen humans betray each other way to many times to count and she’s seen what human’s have done to each other. She doesn’t trust them and one thing she fears is betrayal, so she keeps people way by acting aloof. She’s perceptive and she’ll take note of what you say and do, before making her decisions. Otherwise, she’s an outgoing and kind person around her friends and family.

HISTORY: Some might say that black-winged Nyx was the daughter of Eros, where others said both Eros and Nyx are the children of Chaos. The latter is true, of course. How does a god of sexual attraction create a goddess of the night? It makes no sense. She’s the sister of Erebus, Gaia, and Tartarus. Nyx is night, a powerful goddess whose darkness falls from the stars, and who dictates not only humans but the gods themselves. Even Zeus doesn’t dare to upset her. Need proof? It happened that Hera bribed Hypnos, Nyx’s and Erebus’ son, in order to make Zeus fall asleep, so she could foolishly have it her way during the Trojan War. Nyx doesn’t like Hera at all. The foolish goddess was merely an idiot, a recipe for disaster and trouble. Zeus would find out sooner or later. Zeus would not lay a hand on her son however.

Hypnos obeyed the goddess in spite of his fears; for once he had performed a similar task, and when Zeus woke up in anger, he sought him everywhere, and would have hurled him from heaven into the deep, had Nyx not saved him. Zeus stopped and thought twice before doing anything that could displease Nyx.

In Tartarus, both a place and her brother, Nyx has her home and spreads around him in triple line like a necklace. At the gates of Tartarus and above it are the sources and ends of heaven, earth, and sea, and it is told that if a man should find himself inside the gates, he would not reach the bottom for one year, being carried by blasts in all directions. But although it could be said that the days could not be counted if this dark-robed goddess, giver of sleep, would not come between them, night and day are, in a certain way, equals.

For the world, they say, is the movable image of Eternity, and when the heavens were constructed, there appeared after them Night and Day, the months and the years, being all portions of Time, which imitates Eternity. Both Day and Night live in the same home behind the brazen threshold of Tartarus, never being there at the same time, for when one of them crosses the earth the other waits at home. But they greet each other at the threshold as they cross in front of the place where Atlas holds up heaven. Nyx is highly appreciated and revered by those who cast snares, for mischief and treachery not seldom arise from night-time, when things are often unexpected, although Destruction is believed to make its way in any case.

So Cronos, protected by the darkness of the night, attacked his father Uranus from an ambush, castrating him with the sickle of the jagged teeth. And it was in night-time that Heracles surprised his enemies and took the island of Cos, which is off the southwestern coast of Asia Minor, slaying King Eurypylus. During the Trojan War, it was Night who protected the comings and goings of spies, for it was protected by the darkness of immortal Night that Odysseus entered, disguised as a beggar, the city of Troy; and it was during the night that the Thracian Rhesus met his death attacked by Odysseus and Diomedes.

Also, those who escape, commit thefts and other crimes, prefer to do it by night, for this is the time for Deceit, Sleep, Doom, Madness, and Death, although no one knows how the children of Nyx will play. That is why Medea guided Jason to the Golden Fleece by night, lulling to sleep the guardian dragon by drugs, and by night the ARGONAUTS left Colchis, taking with them the king’s daughter.

When Helen and Paris left Sparta as lovers and sailed to Troy, they started their fateful journey by night, and when she returned after the war, they say that she waited for the night to go out in order to avoid being stoned, if she went out by day, by the parents whose sons had perished at Troy. For Helen was called “Lady of Sorrows” for having caused, as they saw it, that great war. But during the night she was safe, not only because Night provides hiding but also because the others mourned, for tears are shed mostly in the night-time.

Night, they say, carries Hypnos in her arms, but if he refuses his comfort, the night-long vigils make the eyes of mortals sore. For in night-time most things and beings are restored so that they might enjoy or suffer the following day. And even Zeus could not have punished Prometheus for so many years if his liver had been eaten up by the eagle on a single day, but as things are, the lobes of his liver grew by night, so that they could be picked at again the next morning. So what is done by day is undone by night, which was known by Odysseus’ wife Penelope, who wove by day the shroud of her father-in-law Laertes and undid it by night, thus deceiving her SUITORS, for she had promised to wed one of them when her work was finished. Night is also an adequate time for her child Death, and that is why the seer Tiresias chose to die in the night-time after drinking water from the spring at Tilphussa. And the same may be said of her child Madness, for this seized Ajax by night, and made him slaughter the cattle with the herdsmen in the Achaean camp, taking them for the Achaeans, whom he hated for having adjudged to Odysseus the arms of the dead Achilles.

As Night opens the gates of her child Love, mortal lovers prefer to meet by night, as do the gods, for when Zeus visited Alcmena he not only did it by night but duly prolonged that particular night threefold. Some divine manipulations are done in the night-time while mortals sleep, and that is why Thetis used to hide little Achilles in the fire by night, in order to make him immortal, but by day she anointed him with ambrosia, and it was also by night that Demeter put the little Demophon into the fire, with identical purpose.

Night is also a time of inspiration, and that is why it is told that the MUSES sing during night-time their praises to the gods and Nyx on Mount Helicon, and they themselves are the result of the nine nights that Zeus spent with Mnemosyne. She has no sense of remorse for what happens under the cover of the darkness. After all, she’s just doing her job. What a boring, but an entertaining job nonetheless. If you’re alive for millions of years, things don’t excite you as much at they used to. The evolution of humans shocks Nyx no more. Perhaps that’s what drove her to Mount Phoenix, the fact that there was nothing more shocking than humans and gods (some she knew, others she heard of as she travels across the sky, pulling the blanket of stars and darkness with her) mingling with humans, specifically demigods.

POWERS: Darkness manipulation is her main ability, so she can shape and manipulate darkness and shadows. By itself, darkness is mostly used to cloud everything into total darkness, but by accessing a dimension of dark energy, it can be channeled to a variety of effects, both as an absence of light and a solid substance: she can also control and manipulate the beings that exist there, create and dispel shields and areas of total darkness, create constructs and weapons, teleport herself through massive distances via shadows, etc.

STRENGTHS:

She’s the most level-headed person someone could possibly meet and tries to be the shoulder for others to lean on, although she has difficulty understanding the emotions of others at times.

She’s not afraid to voice her opinions to others, and is often speaks up if something doesn’t agree with her.

Though she seems easygoing around friends and family, she has a deep understanding of her surroundings, making one question if her chipper attitude is a facade.

WEAKNESSES:

Nyx is often displayed to be blunt with her words, choosing logic over emotions.

She also portrayed as the very definition of an workaholic. Her actions often hints that she works all the time and rarely takes breaks, even if she is woken up at an ungodly hour, she’ll get up.

Nyx does not trust others easily because she fears betrayal. For many centuries, she constantly went out by herself.

[yourenchantingcollectionwitch]

Over the blue sea, with its streaks like purple wine, lie islands that are dotted away into the distance, and they too have each a tale to tell.

It may be Delos, perhaps no one lives on it now, but the ruins of cities and temples , harbours and theatres, cluster from the shore to the hilltop on which Apollo, the shining one, and his sister, Artemis the Maiden Huntress were born.

DELOS is known as a floating island in Greece. It was a major sacred site for the ancient Greeks, and in the second in importance only to Delphi.

As mentioned in earlier articles, Delos was the birthplace of Artemis and Apollo, the twin offspring of Zeus and Leto. When Leto was discovered to be pregnant Zeus’s jealous wife Hera banished her from the Earth, but Poseidon took Pity on her, and provided Delos as a place for her to give birth in peace. The island also possessed another name known as Ortygia.

Delos had a huge significance to Leto. Leto was the favorite lover of Zeus. Zeus was known to marry Hera while Leto was pregnant. During the duration of Leto’s pregnancy, Hera created problems. She pushed Leto out of the Great Olympus. Leto wandered on the earth, and no person would let her stay in their home due to fear that Hera would be offended.

On top of that Hera had the dragon Python chase her. Zeus saved her by sending the North Wind, Boreas to carry her out to sea. Finally, the desolate rocky island of Delos, which had nothing to lose, accepted her as their child. The other goddesses gathered there to help Leto during the labor. Hera stayed away and managed to detain Eileithya, who was the goddess of childbirth, but Iris eventually succeeded in bringing her to the island.

Leto, firstly, gave birth to Artemis, and after another nine days of labor, to Apollo. Still fleeing Hera’s wrath, she went to Lycia. The peasants tried to prevent her from drinking from their well, so the turned them into frogs.

Another area could be the rocky, rugged Ithaca, which Odysseus sailed towards the siege of Troy, and found again after ten years wandering over strange and dragon-haunted seas.

ITHACA

The island belonged in the Ionian Sea in Greece, and was an important setting during one of the most famous pieces of literature in ancient Greece, known as The Odyssey.

The main hero of the story, known as Odysseus, lived in Ithaca and was its rightful monarch. Homer described it as being a “low-lying” and farthest to the west island, despite it being mountainous. The island of Kefalonia was also being more to the west.

Odysseus happened to be one of the suitors of Helen, who was the most beautiful woman in the known world. He foresaw that the situation would not lead anywhere, as there was a multitude of suitors. Tyndareus was unable to choose a husband for her in fear of offending them, and he made a proposal to Odysseus. If Tyndareus would help him win the hand of the best weaver in the world, Penelope, then he would provide a solution to the problem. He, then told all of the suitors to swear an oath, which was hence named the Oath of Tyndareus, according to which no matter who Helen would pick for her husband, they would all support the couple. Everyone agreed and Helen chose Menelaus, who was king of the Sparta. Odysseus then took Penelope as his bride and went back to Ithaca.

After Helen’s abduction by Paris and before the Trojan War started, Odysseus was told by an oracle, (most probably the goddess Athena in disguise), that if he went to the expedition to retrieve Helen, he would not return home for decades. So, he originally pretended to be insane, but his plan was foiled and he was therefore forced to join the Greek army against the Trojans. After the Trojan War, which lasted ten years, it took him indeed ten years to return home, facing multiple adventures in the process.

  Over the blue sea, with its streaks like purple wine, lie islands that are dotted away into the distance, and they too have each a tale to tell.

[claradailey-viscom-blog]

Research; CHOSEN OBJECT

HEROS AND MYTHS The Greeks conceived of myths happening in real time in the distant past, with heroes living in a more recent age of perilous adventures and legendary battles. May myths recounted the exploits of Gods and Goddesses, Some stories described the origins of natural features, such as springs, or of family dynasties and cities. Other tales explained historical events or strange customs of outsiders, such as the warrior-woman Amazons. The same myths could have different local versions. These Myths helped the Greeks to make sense of the world around them, to form connections with foreign peoples, and to define their own place in relation to the cosmos and the divine.

TROGAN WAR This is one of the legendary conflicts between the early Greeks and the people Of Troy in western Anatolia. This war stirred the imagination pf the ancient Greeks more than any other event in their history, and was celebrated in the Iliad and the Odyssey of Homer, as well as a number of early works now lost, and frequently provided material for the great dramatists of the Classical Age. In the traditional accounts, Paris, son of the Trojan king, ran off with Helen, wife of Menelaus of Sparta, whose brother Agamemnon then led a Greek expedition against troy which lasted 10 years. It finally ended when the Trojans brought the horse into their city, where the Greek solders hid before massacring their men and taking their women.

TROGEN WAR AND THE RETURN OF ODYSSEUS As well as forming the basis for Homer’s Iliad and Odyssey, the poignant stories about causes, battles, warriors and aftermath of the ten year siege by the Greeks on the city of Troy captured the imagination of ancient Greek artists. There are many illustrations on painted pottery. Homer is the name given by the ancient Greeks to the semi-legendary author of the “Iliad” and the “Odyssey”, Two epic poems which are the central works of Greek literature. The “Iliad” is set during the Trojan war, the 10 year siege the city of troy by a collection of Greek states, but focuses on a quarrel between King Agamemnon and the warrior Achilles lasting a few weeks during the last of the war. The “Odyssey” however, focuses on the Greek hero Odysseus, King of Ithaca, and his journey home after the fall of troy; It takes him ten years to reach Ithaca and in his absence it is assumed he has died. His Wife Penelope and son Telemachus had to deal with a group of unruly suitors who compete for her hand in marriage.

THE BRIEF HISTORY The war originated from a quarrel between the Goddess Hera, Aphrodite and Athena, after Ares, Goddess of strife and discord, gave them a golden apple marked for the “fairest”; this apple is known in history as the apple of discord. However, the goddesses fought over who was the fairest and decided to ask a mere mortal for his judgement. To determine this they went to Paris of Troy and offered him each something different in return from choosing them. Paris chose Aphrodite as het offer was the most appealing, by making Helen, wife of Menelaus, the most beautiful of all woman and fall in love with Paris. Paris then kidnapped Helen and took her back to Troy with him which resulted in her husband sending his brother, Agamemnon, to lead a expedition of Archean troops to Troy. The battle lasted for 10 long years, during this time Agamemnon grew close to Helen and met with his brother’s wife in secret. The way finally ended after the death of many heroes including the Achaeans Achilles and Ajax but also the Trojans Hector and Paris. The City fell to the rise of the famous Trojan horse.

[katerinaaqu]

Oh my gosh girl ✨️✨️✨️✨️🫶✨️✨️✨️✨️ why do you always shoot me in the feels?! ❤️🫂

Yeah I thought it would be impactful since the deaths and sadness he was directly or indirectly involved somehow matched some of the most important people of his life and man that would surely hurt tons!

Oh my for real and I believe in his sadness his brain set aside ONE person he was supposed to curse upon; himself. The whole Trojan war business kinda happened because of his idea! Man I love it how the entire Odysseus saga involves Odysseus shooting himself in the foot whenever he has an idea! Which is the same concept I followed here. Because the Trojan war became an all-greek fight bevause of Odysseus. Basically when he was a suitor to Helen he realized he probably didn't have as many hopes as the other kinds plus his eye caught a lovely and modest maiden by the name of Penelope. In order to get her father (or stepfather if her father was Zeus) Tyndareous say a good word about him to his cousin and father to Penelope Icarius, he suggested a solution to Tyndareus's dilemma in regards to whether the other kings would get offended if Helen chose one of them so Odysseus suggested an oath with which all kings would swear to come to assist the husband of Helen (thus making her equal to the protection of her honor). Of course she chose Menelaus but then when she left with Paris Menelaus used the oath to gather them all up. So if you think about it the only reason Odysseus was there in the first place was...Odysseus himself! And boy he surely doesn't want to think about it! AWW Girl you are always so cute! 🫶

It is a little all of the above I think. Leaving Odysseus alone with his thoughts is dangerous, leaving depressed Odysseus alone with his thoughts is lethal, leaving a drunk depressed Odysseus alone with his thoughts might as well be a ticking atomic bomb! Hehe but yeah initially I think Polites knew if he weren't there to be a bit the voice of his consciousness then Odysseus would get wasted (which kinda happened) and put some embarrassment to himself considering the negative connotations with drunkenness. Plus sure maybe he thought if something came up Odysseus wouldn't be in a state yo stand up to himself etc. Oh man for sure Odysseus was probably pretty much drunk and crying and being messy for sure not a sight to make you feel assured. Yeah I figured he would say something like that since people keep saying how wise he is and all and right now Odysseus just doesn't feel it characterizes him at all...

Oh yeah for sure. Odysseus no longer cares for proprietors and all. He wants something to drown himself into.

Awww thanks! Technically this story takes place immediately after the taking of Troy so he had spent almost an entire night in the horse and another night plundering and the day of clearing tye mess up and all but man I am sure indeed he keeps seeing the battle before him on constant repeat even in his wide awake state! Yet alone sleep! Gosh girl! 😭😭😭

It wouldn't be the first time. Technically the whole Odyssey is how all his men got punished for a hubris he committed! Imagine now! He definitely is frightened that nemesis would fall upon them! For real though. I took inspiration by another amazing blogger here who basically said "Odysseus doesn't fight to win. He fights to leave". Basically his goal was the damn war finally to be over so that he could return home! Gosh...😢

Oh yeah like eveey person would want to congratulate the man who inspired a successful plan but yeah boy oh boy couldn't they have been more wrong! Oh man you are so right he is so self-hating at that point! And yeah imagine if he actually WENT home and Telemachus like age 10-11 asked him about it... (which again is the reason I imagine Odysseus cried when listening to the songs of war in Pheakes Island. Not only because of his nostalgia but because the war was never pleasant to begin with!)

Yeah they cannot understand where his problem is but man poor guy...

Yeah I doubt anyone could face his intense stare at that moment! And yeah technically both were punished. Agamemnon was killed by his own wife and Odysseus suffered for 10 long years after losing everything so in a way this was a wink to mythology. And yeah undoubtedly war has so many losses! It is never truly about winning and losing!

Oh yeah absolutely. Agamemnon simply doesn't want to think about it! While Odysseus overthinks and internalizes everything Agamemnon doesn't want to contemplate it so deeply even if he knows Odysseus is right.

Yeah in the Odyssey he speaks with the warmest words of him and in Iliad he said he is irreplaceable more or less so I kept the same feeling and he is more sympathetic here and can see his struggles. Yeah he probably was A LOT sarcastic poor man and yeah he probably looked really really bad!

For real that was exactly what I was aiming for! He doesn't deny his part of his spoil (I thought it would be unrealistic and it would turn him way too goodie goodie guy and it ain't him) but he still doesn't want to choose and relish himself indeed! For real! Dark humor not really working now!

Awww 😍 I am glad you liked it! That was what I aimed for: that Odysseus would have at least some ray of sunshine after all this to put his heart a bit at ease. For real sometimes one word is enough! 🥺✨️

Gosh that was indeed the hardest part for me to write because man he has 10 more years before he can embrace them after that point! Like for real poor man!

Awww thanks! Somehow I thought it would fit to open with Odysseus and Polites and close with Odysseus and Polites on a different manner! Aww for sure finally he can rest a bit!

Awww 😍 🫶❤️💋💕🥰✨️

Hahahahahaha seeing our favorite boys as one somehow makes us a bit prejudiced doesn't it?! Hahaha but for sure it doesn't work for me hahaha Neoptolemus suits better

Hahahaha either way it is a bit gruesome! Like Hecuba yells in Eurypedes tragedy "her being a slave to a dead man!" Like it surely sounds a bit creepy hahahaha 😆 but yeah no matter how pragmatic and logical it sounded initially to Odysseus's mind to kill them when he comes before the actual thing I would imagine he would have his initial determination bend a bit.

Yeah for Greeks drinking pure wine was more something foreigners did. There was this detail about some common breakfast in ancient Greece that was basically bread dipped in wine.

Awwww thanks dear ✨️🙏

Hahanahahaha yeah that was definitely a moment from 8 to 80 in Iliad hahahaha 😆 😂 😆

"Grabbed Odysseus by the balls" is now my officially favorite comment about that moment and man why do I even visualize it and not just seeing it as a metaphor?! Hahahaha because it is just too good to ignore hahaha (or the thought in the back of my head Odysseus turning into Scar mode and grab Palamedes only to push him under again! Like "my son won't save you now!" Hahahaha sorry!)

Yeah Andromache basically found someone to blame and in a way she wasn't entirely wrong given that even the concept of the war happened bevause of Odysseus in the first place! 🤯 but still!

For real I thought that a baby that can talk a bit might strike much deeper! 😭😭😭

For real that scene was so powerful so I immediately got inspired for this! 💔

Yeah as I mentioned above I somehow thought this would fit!

Awww girl as always you give me so awesome reviews! I am so glad you enjoyed it!

Continuing from Part 2

Guilt (P3 + Footnotes)

"Odysseus" Meriones approached him, "Are you alright?"

Odysseus winced in pain. He hadn't realized he had clenched his fist so hard that it hurt him. He unclenched it.

"Yes..." he whispered, "Yes, I'm fine..."

Odysseus moaned. That baby...the look at that infant's face...Astyanax was gone...he had given his place to Telemachus. Priam's slain face was Laërtes...mourning Andromache was his wife... He grasped his head with both hands.

"Damn you Neoptolemus! Damn you Helen for starting it! Damn you Menelaus for dragging me into this... Damn you Palamedes! Damn you all! Why should I have taken this blood upon me?! Why did it have to be me?!"

He sighed.

"Polites...I want to be alone for a little while..."

"Do you think that is wise...?" Polites asked with hidden meaning.

"Wise!" Odysseus voiced like an echo, "No, perhaps not but I got tired of being wise for now..."

Polites sighed.

"At least add some water to your wine...please Odysseus"

Odysseus dismissed him with a move of his hand. He wasn't much in the mood for anything at that moment. He knew war wouldn't be pleasant but these events of just one night were taking the cake. He was exhausted; sleepless for two nights and a full day and right now the Sacker of Cities, the Man of Many Ways was terrified. He collapsed again and his tears overflowed from his eyes, wetting the table below. He grasped his wet hair with his fingers as if he was ready to uproot them.

"Gods! Please Athena, please, I beg of you...if you love me...p-protect my son! Let the miasma fall on me! Not him! I-I...I just wanted to g-go home! I just wanted to see them again...my Penelope...my Telemachus...! I-I never meant for this to happen! P-Please...! I beg of you if you love me...p-protect my son! Don't let the gods' wrath fall upon their heads! P-Please...! F-Forgive me! I...I just...I just wanted to go home!"

He couldn't decide what to pray for first... Words cascaded out of his mouth without any coherent way or syntax. He only prayed desperately, wetting with his tears the table. Sun was already setting and Troy was taken...but at what cost...

*

Menelaus and Agamemnon entered Odysseus's hut one after the other.

"I gotta give it to you, Odysseus!" Agamemnon said, "You WERE telling the truth when you said you could take Troy in one night!"

Odysseus was collapsed upon his chair, looking at them with an unreadable expression to his face. The jug was resting empty somewhere after the feet of his seat.

"Hm..." he hummed, "That's me. I am the trickster, remember? I lie, I scheme and I trick. That is what I do"

Agamemnon raised a brow.

"Are you drunk?!" He asked in disbelief

"One more shame to add to the events of this night..." Odysseus replied bitterly.

"Shame? I do not understand. We finally sacked the city. You can finally go home."

"Home..." Odysseus whispered, "I wonder...what shall I say to Penelope when she asks? Or Telemachus? If he asks 'father what did you do and you were away?', 'I was at war, my son', 'did you fight honorably and sack many cities?'... What shall I say for what we've done...?"

"I do not understand you Odysseus. It was your idea"

"Yeah somehow I do not doubt it..." Odysseus mumbled bitterly, "I was wrong, Agamemnon. This was not what I imagined...what I planned..."

He sighed shifting his position a bit to his chair.

"Priam is dead, you know that..."

"Yeah, like we expected to-..."

"On the altar. On the freaking altar, Agamemnon..."

"Yeah I heard..."

"Imagine that happening to any of us...in our homelands. If one cannot respect the holy laws then what?"

He played a bit with his empty cup.

"Priam murdered on the altar...Cassandra raped mercilessly and now Ajax looks for shelter to the very same altar he dragged her out of, to avoid being stoned to death..." the king of Ithaca rubbed the bridge of his nose, "...death...death and fire everywhere..."

"Odysseus..." spoke Menelaus, "I understand that you are grieving, it was not easy or pleasant but..."

"The boy...he was the same age as my son! Thrown off the wall..."

"Odysseus" Agamemnon spoke again, "I honestly don't understand you. Others would fly from joy with your glory. You had a good plan and it worked. Thanks to you we can all go home."

Odysseus's eyes became bottomless. Even Agamemnon had to lower his gaze against it.

"The blasphemy put us under the anger of gods, Agamemnon. Remember that. Listen..."

Agamemnon seemed like indeed trying to listen something.

"The Trojans are not the only ones mourning. We lost many good men too. We lost Achilles. Or have you forgotten?"

Agamemnon sighed deeply.

"His loss...was tragic indeed" he finally said, "we had our differences but his loss was a great price..."

"Quite so..." Odysseus whispered, "was it really worth it? The price we had to pay to sack Troy?"

He shifted his weight to his chair lethargically. He rubbed his forehead with his free hand for a second. The dizziness bad settled for real in his brain. He leaned his head back again, earning a small cracking sound from his neck.

"And since we are at it, I have a question for you, Agamemnon, son of Atreus, the first among the Greeks... What did the Trojans REALLY do to us to deserve such an end?"

"You're drunk! You don't know what you're talking about!"

Odysseus snorted humorlessly.

"Oh, I am drunk, alright. But I know exactly what I am talking about. And you do too. They took Helen, sure, or at least one of them did. But their real crime against us was that they protected their lands...from us. That's what we would have done as well..."

Agamemnon was ready to speak again but Menelaus stopped him.

"Brother, that's enough"

He then turned ti Odysseus sympathetically.

"Look, Odysseus, I understand that it hurts and I am sorry too that I put you through that indirectly, but please do not melt away. No matter what the actions of others was not your choice."

Odysseus said nothing. He only sighed.

"Will you join us at the games later? You are the hero of the day. Your presence is asked for."

Odysseus scoffed.

"Oh I will be there, alright. I never miss a good party!"

Menelaus smiled sadly.

"Thank you, Odysseus...for everything. I really mean it... I will see you later, when you sober up a little..."

He looked at his friend and added;

"And...we shall mention none...of this" he pointed at him indicating his condition.

Odysseus soullessly nodded as if wanting to attempt some humor.

"Thanks...I appreciate it"

Agamemnon was ready to say something but apparently he decided against it. He only sighed and turned to leave before finally asking;

"Will you come to take a pick from the spoils? You deserve it given it was thanks to you we got in"

The tired king made a dismissive move with his hand.

"No. I'm fine with whatever. Just include me to the next lottery" he replied indifferently

"Are you sure? You deserve a better share"

Odysseus smiled humorlessly.

"Last time I chose and defended my choice, we lost Aias the Telamonian. I think we lost enough for one decade, don't you think?"

It was a failure of attempt for humor and he knew it but Agamemnon only sighed.

"Suit yourself" he said defeated, heading for the exit

Menelaus was about to do the same but apparently something made him stop and turn around.

"Odysseus?"

"Hm?"

"Thank you...truly... You gave me back my honor

Odysseus snorted again.

"With the cost of mine..." he whispered bitterly, "Not that anyone ever thought I had any..."

The king of Sparta, though, shook his head negatively.

"To me you will always be the greatest of all Greeks"

The man who endured all torments looked up and for the first tike a small smile rose to his dry lips. That word of kindness was what he needed for his tormented heart to feel some sort of hope. At least there was finally one who neither blamed him nor glorified him. Menelaus saw his torment and responded. That was enough.

"Thank you..." he whispered

Menelaus nodded his head in return.

"Now rest, my friend. We have a long way before us...we are going home..."

Home...the tormented king of Ithaca thought. Yes, finally they could go home. After 10 endless years they could finally embrace their families. Just few more months of journey and Odysseus could finally go home... All he had to do was to learn to live with what he did... He watched both the kings through his cloudy vision, getting out of his tent and Polites coming back in.

"I am sorry, Odysseus! I couldn't stop them!"

Odysseus dismissed him with a hand gesture once more.

"Don't sweat it, Polites. Stopping a king seems impossible. Gods help us with two!"

Polites smiled softly. At least he would gain some of his humor back, he thought.

"Help me get to my bed, Polites..." sighed Odysseus hoarsely, "I need to rest... I am very tired..."

~~~~

Oh gosh what have I done?! Hehehehe well not sorry...not really! 😆 I hope you enjoyed this ride.

As you see I tried incorporating some of the Epic Cycle to the situation but I did tamper around with the timeliness. The Epic Cycle is a lovely mess anyways and holds many contradictions with the homeric poems but it includes many things.

Now the fragmentary poem Iliou Persis is sven mentioned how Odysseus throws Astyanax off the walls but most sources have Neoptolemus donit and I do agree with those more. Now in Trojan Women by Eurypedes the messenger Talthybius tells Andromache that Odysseus schemed so that her son would be thrown off the walls and that he persuaded the Greeks they couldn't raise the baby. Odysseus doesn't strike much as a baby killer in Odyssey or even the Iliad although he is known for being cruel in his punishments (see the excecution of the 50 conspiring slave girls) but nowhere jn Odyssey does Odysseus refer to that fact even if he does speak of his regrets for other actions of his and if he HAD thrown Astyanax off the walls himself I doubt he wouldn't have made any reference to it so I believe that Iliou Persis should he treated like Telegony when it comes to the homeric poems; a bit contradictory to the homeric epics (unless there is some lost fragment that tells us how Odysseus went on a rampage he could not remember lol 😆 ) so I made a mixture of all the above to show how Odysseus "killed" Astyanax or subconsciously persuaded the Greeks to do it and I added the role of Talthybius here too.

Iliou Persis seems to also be the most violent form when it comes to the Greek side such as that they offer Priam's daughter Polyxene to Achilles's tomb as a sacrifice, thus causing the rage of Athena (I swear the thing was written by a Trojan lol 😆) Eurypedes mentions how Polyxene was offered as slave to Achilles symbolically so she should serve his tomb. I also added the detail of Odysseus trying to persuade Neoptolemus to choose her as his price to speak Andromache but his attempts are a failure.

Drunkenness was severely discouraged in ancient geeece thus the concern in Polites's words when Odysseus uses it as a coping mechanism for the traumatic events of the night. Moreover the Greeks always mixed their wine with water (thus having the modern name for wine in Greek κρασί which comes from the verb in ancient greek which means "to mix") the wine that was not watered was called άκρατον and it was qlmost never consumed unless dipped in bread. The analogy between wine and water depended.

In this story I depict Neoptolemus as somehow a nemesis to Odysseus. Similar to what Agamemnon or Hector were for Achilles. I have no idea why but the idea stuck with me especially since the two are the two candidates for the murder of Astyanax. Somehow I imagined them again as the polar opposites thus the two of them having tension.

Odysseus mentions Thersites who was beaten really badly by him in the Iliad. In other sources it is mentioned that Odysseus has him stoned to death after Theraites attempts treason. In this story Thersites was already dead.

I know that for Palamedes the most famous version of his end comes from Hygenius who writes how Odysseus frames him for treason. However Pausanias mentions from the Epic Cycle that Palamedes drowned at a fishing expedition and that "he believes the murderers were Odysseus and Diomedes". 🤔 somehow I wanted to use a lesser known version plus give a bit room to doubt for instance did Palamedes really fell by accident and Odysseus is guilty for not helping? Or perhaps Odysseus pushed him? Maybe he held him under? Dunno. Leave it to your imagination. I know is not so spicy as the framing story but bare with me hehehe

Talthybius here simply hears "it was Odysseus who planned it" thus sending that information yo Andromache without the rest of the details..

Astyanax uttering a word was totally random. If he were an infant a few months old or almost a year old in Iliad that means he would be around 1 to 1.5 years old when Troy fell so I thought it would be more impactful if the poor baby uttered a word before his end.

The interaction with Andromache was placed there for the dramatics and the impact. When Andromache screams "MY BOY!" I was inspired by the series "The Tudors" when Anne Boleyn laments her final miscarriage (by the way I think Natalie Dormer would make an amazing Andromache!)

The story with Palamedes was also added to make the connection between two mothers and their impact to Odysseus. Plus I thought it would make more sense if Odysseus was furious not only for being embarrassed or that he has to go to war but because Palamedes put his son in danger. (Of course Penelope would be part of that scheme!)

Odysseus refusing to participate at the choice of spoils was just a random detail but as a general rule from Eurypedes it seems that he eats the old Ekavi (Hecuba) as his slave (probably she would be to serve Penelope( so I imagined Odysseus wouldn't want to choose but getting whatever would be lucky for him to further implicate that he wouldn't want anything further to do with the war. He also mentions the incident when Telamonian Aias (aka the great Ajax) went mad when Odysseus won Achilles's armor from him and then he killed himself in shame.

I also wanted to portray the friendship between Menelaus and Odysseus which seems to be really strong since Menelaus always talks with the warmest words for Odysseus.

For further questions and analysis please ask me to the comment section or reblog etc!

I wanna also tag some of my best friends commenters rebloggers etc! Thank you guys! Sorry if I forget anyone!

@loco-bird @aaronofithaca05 @tunguszka20 @doob-or-something @jarondont @prompted-wordsmith @simugeuge @fangirlofallthefanthings