#sylvie critical

[nikkoliferous]

Sylvie, Queen of the Mary Sues; Worst of Her Name; Breaker of Canon*

The Shameless Erasure of Loki’s Trauma in Order to Prop Up the Show’s True Protagonist, Sylvie

Loki Deserves Better Than His Toxic, One-sided Romance With Sylvie

Sylki is Literally the Opposite of a Self-Love Story

The Hypocrisy of Framing Sylvie as a Hero and Loki as a Villain

Sylvie and the Problem With “Strong Female Characters”

Loki (2021)’s Cynical Use of Comic Book Easter Eggs to Shortcut Sylvie’s Character “Development”

Belittling vs. Bickering: Sylvie and Loki’s Problematic Dynamic

Every Single Issue With Sylki (It’s Not Just the Selfcest)

Why Loki (2021)’s Sylvie Is A Mary Sue

Even Ignoring the Selfcest, Sylki Is Still A Terrible Pairing

*shoutout to @iamnmbr3 for this catchy nickname lol

↩️ back to the compendium

[agentoffangirling]

Hey, just here to talk about your post about people accusing people of misogyny for not liking a female character...

THANK YOU.

This bothers me so much.

There are so many great MCU female characters, and just because we occasionally don't like one, doesn't automatically make us hateful of all women. That's such an insane conclusion, in my opinion.

I never liked Sylvie, and I'm a woman. She reminds me of somebody abusive from my youth, lol but anywayyyy...

My theory is that if misogyny is the only go to you have for somebody not liking your favorite female character, chances are, that female character wasn't very good to begin with.

It's like you also said, misogyny actually exists.

However, if you think that's the only reason somebody ( most likely somebody you don't even know ) doesn't like someone or something, maybe you need to look into the said subject a little bit more.

YES YES YES THIS

I love so many female MCU characters, many of which are actually hated on by misogynistic fans (ex. Carol Danvers and Jennifer Walters), so the idea that if I don't like just one female or feminine-leaning character means I must hate all women is wild to me

To be completely fair, though, the idea that just because you like these female characters doesn't mean you are exempt from misogyny, wanted to clear that up real quick. Fanboys LOVE to say "well I liked Natasha so I'm not misogynistic", and I wanted to ensure I am absolutely not defending that

And I totally agree, if that's your automatic response to someone saying they don't like your fave, maybe you should look into why they're disliked. Is it genuinely because they're a woman, or is it that they dislike the way she was written and framed positively as though she's always right, even when your own narrative argues against that? And I believe Sylvie stans, deep down, know this, and they use the misogyny claim to deflect from that and poise her as the greatest character of all time™

If I see a Lokius shipper shitting on Sylvie only bc she gets in the way of the ship, I'm calling them out on it. Misogyny is always going to exist in fandom, unfortunately there's nothing we can do to change that, but they are never the majority. Sylvie stans need to understand that, that while are always going to be those people, it's not the whole fandom, and to misuse a term like misogyny like that distracts from the actual misogyny taking place

[lunarspiral1127]

*SPOILERS*

Dox is bringing in a lot of Hunters and gear just for Sylvie. She must've deemed her a major threat to bring so much. Well, that's where the episode ends, but we do get a post-credit scene where Sylvie ends up in the 1982 Oklahoma and goes to a McDonald's and orders everything on their menu....yes, that actually happened.

So, I guess that explains why the McDonald's in my hometown were promoting the show with their logos on their dipping sauces for the McNuggets. Cause apparently, they came in 1982. She seems to be taken in by the atmosphere seeing the customers talking and enjoying themselves. So, that'll probably explain why she'll be seen working at the McDonald's in later episodes.

And, frankly....I stopped caring about Sylvie a long time ago. I'm sorry, but what she did triggered so many bad things happening and I'm still annoyed with what she did to Loki last season, and now with what her actions have caused. I get that she's been through a lot, but that doesn't excuse it.

But, she'll be in the show. I just hope that she'll suffer some consequences. However, I feel like Loki will forgive her since he's still adamant on protecting her.

[gloriousburden]

I think we all know this feeling unfortunately

[shambelle97]

LOKI SERIES - SEASON 2 / NOMINATION CRITICS CHOICE AWARDS (2023)

Congratulations to cast and crew of Marvel Studios’ Loki on their four Critics Choice Awards TV Nominations including Best Drama Series, Best Actor in a Drama Series – Tom Hiddleston, Best Supporting Actress in a Drama Series – Sophia Di Martino, and Best Supporting Actor in a Drama Series – Ke Huy Quan. #CriticsChoice

Pics by: marvelstudios

[mejcinta]

Writing and Directing Choices of HoTD Season 2 and How They Harmed Storylines and Characters.

Hotd is a cinematic marvel...that much cannot be denied. However, I can't help but wonder had they just directed scenes better, if we could've gotten MORE from the characters as a result?

To me, what is off about season 2 compared to season 1 is this feeling that we're shoved outside as the audience. We're not in the characters' heads and experiencing what they're experiencing in the moment, therefore we wound up feeling like their actions in season 2 are ooc.

Think of Aemond in s1 vs s2. In season 1 we had time alone with him as a kid, when he went hunting for a dragon TWICE. The camera lingered on his face during tense moments to convey his feelings like when his eye was slashed out and he was boiling with anger and vengeance at Viserys' dismissal of his pain. Additionally, we had a lot of screen time with Aemond in s1, whereas in s2 he barely has any.

It's hard enough having a season slashed down to 8 episodes from 10, now we have more new characters thrown into the mix that need focusing on. So the writers had to be smart and the directors super efficient.

A scene of Aemond walking through the Streets of Silk, despondent about the B&C incident before he stops to go inside the brothel to be with Sylvi and vent out his frustrations and hurt would've done WONDERS for Aemond. Just that one scene would put us in his headspace and take us through this new development he has taken up over the 10 days since Alicent pushed him away, his shame, his guilt and resentments. With this one Aemond centered scene we would have perfect set up and context for why Aemond does what he does in RR to Aegon, why he clips Alicent's wings at the small council and tries to force Helaena out of her comfort zone.

Instead, the brothel scene started off with the pleasure house and we followed whores around before being thrust with the shocking scene of Aemond there without any explanation or justification.

Helaena also suffered a bit from poor visual direction. Instead of following her around the Keep before the B&C attack, we're forced to hang around with the criminals and at some point attempts are made to make them seem FUNNY and relatable (Cheese and his dog).

In all that confusion, we are somehow thrust into Jaehaerys' bedchamber where Cheese is holding Helaena captive. So random. Why did we not see HOW that happened?

Would it not have been better to cut from Blood and Cheese approaching to HELAENA preparing to retire to bed and suddenly seeing Cheese in the doorway??? Would it not have been better to be in the room with Helaena as she spends her final moments with her peacefully sleeping children before horror strikes?

Wouldn't it have been better for Helaena to remain in the chamber with her dead child in her arms as his head is carried away, unable to scream...instead of distracting us with her walking into Alicent having sex?

This moment was supposed to be about Helaena and her mental trauma, her grief, her pain. If anything her stumbling into Aegon as she tries to escape would've made more creative sense. And we end with Aegon screaming.

I feel like so much story potential and character potential was wasted in efforts to forcefully remind us that House of the Dragon is Alicent and Rhaenyra's show. In fact if you carefully observe the season, you can notice easily how focus is put on pointless and repetitive scenes featuring them while other characters remain underutilized and unexplored, even just by visual direction.

I truly hope that season 3 will apply better directing and writing that adds depth to characters in the minimal screen time that they have because this season just wasn't it.

[sufferthesea]

if i wanted to watch tom hiddleston play an emotionally damaged, traumatized man with black hair who was neglected by his parents and has an incestuous relationship with a woman while also being attracted to a quirky blonde, i’d watch crimson peak

[ineffablelara]

About President Loki and that scene in the void...

Ever since I first watched Loki s1ep05 I felt uncomfortable with the scene that features President Loki and all the other variants, it was weird to me how some people found it hilarious and the pinacle of comedy in the show, not to mention the ones saying "Lmao this was the most Loki thing ever, of course they all betray each other"

Something about the Lokis being portrayed as shallow, predictable, incompetent and ultimately just pathetic never sat right with me, then after some time passed I realized that that's how the people in charge of s1 viewed Loki, Kate Herron and Michael Waldron didn't have the first idea about who Loki really was and they made that atrocity of a scene that shows just how low their opinion of him is

And the pinnacle of their misunderstanding of Loki as a character is perfectly embodied in… President Loki.

Yes, I know he's a fan favourite and he's very hot and some people even say his scenes are the only time the "real Loki" showed up onscreen (lmao)

As I said above I think he's the embodiment of Herron's and Waldron's misunderstanding of Loki and here's why: At first he seems to be like the Loki we all know and loved in Avengers, he's cool, badass, the leader of an army and he stops at nothing to get what he wants

But is he really all of those things? Because as soon as he finishes his "big speech" he's betrayed by his own "army", alligator Loki bites his hand off and he starts to scream in panic and terror, hell breaks loose and well, we have that atrocious scene that makes me nauseous every time I watch it, this is them telling us what they think Loki is: a mess, someone who wants to appear cool and badass but deep down is just a pathetic loser —a bufoon, a superficial clown who overestimates himself and needs to be humbled, he's there to be laughed at, they even make our Loki look at him and get immediately embarassed at himself, to show us that he's no longer that person, he's grown beyond his foolish old self

And honestly the whole scene with the Lokis yelling generic lines and fighting each other still pains me to this day, is this what they think Loki is? It feels like mockery, it's a insult to him and to the fans, not to mention President Loki's goal to take the "throne"????

You mean that old plastic chair with funny decorations that belong to a kid? Really? Is Loki seriously that desperate for such a meaningless throne? Is he really that shallow, childish and immature? Are we forgetting Loki's real motivations to pursue the throne in the first Thor? What about his desperate need to gain Odin's approval and to be seen as Thor's equal? NahI guess he was just a generic villain with generic motivations, here we're going to turn him into a good Loki

And how were they going to do it, you may ask? By introducing Sylvie.

The only heroic Loki who ever lived, the only morally good variant, the only competent one, commited one, the serious one who never does anything "at the expense of the mission" unlike our Loki who's not really that good at doing things, not even at lying (his attempts to deceive Mobius are so pathetic I feel physical pain when watching it), the variant who's so perfect at everything that our Loki starts to worship her in a way "she's different, she's not trying to take over the TVA, she's trying to take it down and she needs me", she is who he should strive to become and maybe I wouldn't have hated that so much if she wasn't, well, what she was

A woman who hates being a Loki so much that she even changed her own name to distance herself from that person—I can't think of anyone with as much internalized self-hatred as she has. Loki represents everything she despises about herself, yet somehow, I’m supposed to believe that "falling in love with her" made Loki love himself?

Of course, I forgot to mention the fact that even though she rejects being a Loki and loathes the idea of being called one she's wrapped in Loki's collor pallete, Loki's symbols and shapes, she even wears the fucking golden horns on her head and has her own version of the green cape when we first see her

But she rejected the Loki identity

But she dresses exactly like one

🤡

Like, they drew inspirations from so many characters to make her but somehow she manages to be... nothing? She's not Lady Loki, she's not Amora, she's not Sylvie Lushton, she's not Lorelei, and, I hate to be that person but she really feels like someone's self insert

The sad things is, she had potential, she could have been so interesting but they failed her miserably, they could've explored her own self esteem issues, make both of them learn something from each other, let her admire some parts of Loki too, make her see that maybe Lokis are not as bad as she thought, that maybe there's some redeeming qualities about them, even if you can't find it in all of them

But no, let's turn her into a self insert instead of a proper character, and let's make her as annoying as possible too 🤡

Anyway, I ranted enough about her, TLDR: The people in charge of s1 misunderstand Loki on a fundamental level and the scene with them betraying each other in the void is a mockery of the character

[humandisastertonystark]

So...let me get this straight again once and for all because I can't believe this isn't just a very, very bad fever dream.

After horribly killing him off in Infinity War, they decide to bring him back as a complete caricature of himself, basically making him an incompetent bumbling fool, to let their insufferable Mary Sue shine who shits all over him with the rest of the other characters for a whole damn season and then they reward him, after all this unnecessary additional torment, with the responsibility to fix the mess caused by Mary Sue, holding the timelines together for all eternity, doomed to be alone forever...something they also made him say he is the most scared of, multiple times.

How very fucking lovely

I can't believe I'm actually saying this but I wish he would've just stayed dead after IW

Also I hope everyone responsible for this, steps on Legos multiple times a day for the rest of their lifes

[therese-lokidottir]

I don't know if I ever said this but sylvie is one of the most lazy writing I ever see. I realize that showrunner just throwing here and there but never make the series showing what they said. Every sad thing I see in sylvie stans posting how sad she is and moral dilemma or something like that, we're only they own headcanon because sylvie in canon are not showing anything like they wrote.

I seeing loki series more than one and... She didn't have character at all, her character is something depend on plot, but one thing I know is that sylvie is hypocrite, that is who she . It actually very disappointed because sylvie is the main character in season 1 , and of course as main character, I expect her personality is shine and charismatic but what I saw was that, uninterested character and lazy writing ever. They just throwing here and there and let viewers doing the imagination.

In season 1 she got favorite treatment, and make everyone around look dumb but when in season 2 when she lose the favorite treatment, she look dull and.... I actually didn't give F about her except she need getting consequences.

I don't know, she just the most lazy writing main character I ever see and make it worst like 4 eps spending by her yet... There's no something about her like... Charismatic well except I want punch her in face every time she being whiney B

Sylvie is fail being character and fail being love interest. She just fail

The writers came in and expected Sylvie to become super popular and loved, but that didn't quite work she ended up being really decisive.

The writing overall doesn't want the audience to think to hard. Like, it so inconsistent scene from scene. The writing never wants someone to question things as a whole only focus on things being currently presented.

So even if the writing pulled back on Sylvie season 2 it expects the audience to want Sylvie to get what she wants, no question. Because the funny thing is as much as fans try to rewrite it the actual show knows Sylvie is selfish and killed HWR for revenge. Again the writing just expected the audience to think Sylvie is entitled to get what she wants because she had it so hard.

There's almost been this funny bit of dissonance after season 2. Because the show is just as much in love with her as it's always been, still trying to make her the center, giving her what she wants while never putting her through Loki has to go through. But it became much more apparent that Sylvie is selfish and that got to fans that spent years convincing themselves she wasn't. This wasn't sabotage this was what the writers thought is a great character that should be loved. And then fans not knowing how to react.

[pinktwingirl]

Literally how the fuck does this show still have fans at this point this is the most hilariously cringe thing ever

[agentoffangirling]

Sylvie gets away with all the things Loki gets punished for. That's the biggest problem I have with her.

It feels hypocritical.

Abso-fucking-lutely, you hit the nail on the head!!

[musclesandhammering]

We need to have a serious conversation about how it’s gotten to the point where folks immediately saying “you hate female characters so much don’t you” anytime someone says anything negative whatsoever about one, is actually protecting film studios from being held accountable for the subpar ways they write & portray women.

[gloriousburden]

(No disrespect intended towards OP whatsoever ‼️)

If you read any of my posts about Loki, let it be this one. I feel this is the best and most coherent I’ve been able to explain why I dislike the series so much.

Found this from a post analyzing Loki’s costuming throughout the MCU and it’s just… really depressing to me. Got me thinking.

(OP is speaking in favor of the series btw)

He had all freedoms taken away from him. Even the most basic such as dressing himself. He couldn’t even express himself stylistically/through his clothing.

‘He is forced to wear the same clothing as his captor.’

They’re aware.

Love and connection can change others, but this is him changing himself in order to receive that “love” and “connection.” (You guys already know how I feel about his “relationships” in the series, but let’s just go with it for now.)

Loki has never been loved or accepted for who he is, and instead of the series uplifting/proudly presenting those traits of his that haven’t been loved by others, they have him abandon those traits instead. You can only be loved or accepted if you change every aspect of who you are. You can only be included if you strip yourself of who you are. That’s the message the series/his characterization in the series sends. It doesn’t send a message of acceptance, and friendship. He couldn’t even be accepted “despite” who he is. How is him changing who he is to feel a sense of belonging acceptance?

(And I don’t even mean traits such as his coldness or harshness. No, I mean everything from his own way of speaking, his intelligence, his ability to stick up for himself, his ambition, his mischievousness, just… all of it. He lost even the non “difficult” traits.)

He wasn’t worthy of being loved as is. He had to conform in every way. From the way he expresses himself, all the way to his mannerisms. Consciously, and subconsciously. He rejected pieces of himself, to become like those around him.

I understand why the writers did this as they are ignorant and the series was never meant to be about Loki or about uplifting him, but to have “fans” accept this… Loki, I’m sorry they couldn’t love you for who you were. I know he’s not real, but it makes me emotional that the characters around him didn’t accept him for who he was, nor do his “fans.”

Ignorant “fan” talk aside, the writers in the first place didn’t understand that one of the reasons we love Loki is because he wasn’t loved for who he is. No one who truly loved him, wanted him to change and conform to other’s ideals. I understand that Loki needed to be dumbed down and stripped of everything that made him himself in order for the series to work, but no one wanted this.

To make the god of mischief, someone who’s chaotic in nature, conform to order… ooh, it is so irritating.

And this is one of the reasons I dislike the motives behind the costuming in the series. It’s not because I hate Tom Hiddleston and don’t respect his choices, or because the costuming is ugly (it is, but that’s not what I’m here to talk about), it’s because I hate what these choices represent. I hate the fact that people feel that they need to change every aspect of who they are in order to be loved, when there is always someone who will love you for who you are. I hate that it’s encouraged, and seen as acceptance when it’s nothing of the sort.

‘The new costuming shows humility’, as if Loki was ever allowed to be anything but humbled in the first place. As if he were allowed to be above anyone in the first place. As if he was able to be celebrated in the first place. Those “bad” traits, were never accepted. They don’t realize that just because Loki was the villain of the Avengers, it doesn’t mean he walked out successfully.

He was humbled just like in every movie he’s been in. Whether that’s him being rejected by Odin, disrespected by The Warrior’s Three + Sif, humbled by Thor ‘Know your place, brother’, tortured by Thanos, defeated by The Avengers, left to rot in a cell in the dungeons of the Palace he grew up in and was raised as Royalty in, denied the ability to say goodbye to his own mother after her death, threatened by people who were once his friends… You know I can go on forever.

I don’t think there’s been a moment where Loki was allowed to feel better than anyone else without immediately being shut down, denied, humbled, dehumanized, or humiliated.

So for that all to happen to him about a thousand times more in a series that was meant to uplift him… it just sucks. ‘Healthy self-worth and self- love’ he was stripped of who he was and constantly belittled, and did not stick up for himself. He just accepted everything that was said about him, and he accepted the disrespect. I don’t see how that is him having healthy self worth. He was treated horribly by those around them and instead of attempting to stick up for himself like in the previous projects he’s been in, he just accepted it. As if he felt he deserved it. He has less self worth/self love than he’s ever had.

He never got uplifted or praised or accepted or anything besides gaining new physical abilities and a new title. He’s been given a position he’s never wanted, because Loki’s always sacrificing himself. He’s always sacrificing himself the better of other characters, and other MCU plot lines. It’s what the MCU does when they get bored, or need to start a new plot.

I don’t want to see Loki be humbled. He already has been in everything he’s been in. He’s already been humiliated and made the laughingstock. I want to see him uplifted. I want to see him proud of who he is. I want to see him accepted.

I want him to realize he can be happy, even if he doesn’t belong or fit in. He can be loved for who he is.

The series did nothing of the sort, and I don’t know how people can be so unaware of that. Or if they are aware of it, I don’t know how they can accept it.

It’s not even the bare minimum “I accept you despite your flaws” no, it’s “I sort of accept you now that you’ve sacrificed yourself for me and changed every aspect of who you are, but I still do not like you as a person and I still won’t give you even the most basic respect.”

I want better for him. Not more humbling that he accepts without any complaints.

Loki I’ll always love you for who you are

[usernamesuggestionsarefunny]

I f ing hate the hotd writers. Literal evil child rapist not so subtly lecturing the modern audience about obvious shit such as how awful and evil the royals are to the smallfolk as if she weren't as bad as them for, again, I must emphasize, being a literal child rapist, if she can be all holier than thou “I know modern post enlightenment morality too” on us why doesn’t she start by killing herself for being such child abusing trash? Same with the rat catchers being the face of the innocent smallfolk (Ofc most were innocent and didn’t deserve that shit and I don’t even like Aegon since he is also a rapist so I am not even going to defend his ass, but there was a straight up child killing monster that ngl deserved worse among the rat catchers, and we can’t ofc focus on the 100% innocent small folk tb has killed during the coronation, nooo that would make them look equally ~anachronistic royalty is evil trope~ and we can’t have that).

[mejcinta]

'Another grotesque rumor is that they had planned for Aemond to lust after his own MOTHER. We're all holding our breath, hoping Harrenhal doesn't traumatize us in season 3, because a writer has a mom-son kink that gave us the Daemon/Alyssa scene as some twisted form of foreshadowing bullshit they're contemplating rather than just adapting more important themes in grrm's STORY'

I'm not sure if they are going to do another Harrenhal hallucination arc but my biggest fear is they twist the Alysmond dynamic into something disgusting and adapt Aemond's alleged Oedipus complex this way... like having him imagine Alicent as he sleeps with Alys or something insane like that 🤢 I noticed the writers have a habit of sexually humiliating the Greens so this wouldn't surprise me at all. Aemond's scenes with the brothel madam didn't sit well with me either.

Yes. The arc with the brothel madame was the biggest giveaway to me that they want to explore some dark, twisted mommy issues with Aemond.

I pray that now people are onto them, they delete those plans so QUICK. Honestly, what happened to story telling? It feels like these writers are only using the show to flaunt their fetishes. Where are their priorities?