#anti loki series writers

[gloriousburden]

(No disrespect intended towards OP whatsoever ‼️)

If you read any of my posts about Loki, let it be this one. I feel this is the best and most coherent I’ve been able to explain why I dislike the series so much.

Found this from a post analyzing Loki’s costuming throughout the MCU and it’s just… really depressing to me. Got me thinking.

(OP is speaking in favor of the series btw)

He had all freedoms taken away from him. Even the most basic such as dressing himself. He couldn’t even express himself stylistically/through his clothing.

‘He is forced to wear the same clothing as his captor.’

They’re aware.

Love and connection can change others, but this is him changing himself in order to receive that “love” and “connection.” (You guys already know how I feel about his “relationships” in the series, but let’s just go with it for now.)

Loki has never been loved or accepted for who he is, and instead of the series uplifting/proudly presenting those traits of his that haven’t been loved by others, they have him abandon those traits instead. You can only be loved or accepted if you change every aspect of who you are. You can only be included if you strip yourself of who you are. That’s the message the series/his characterization in the series sends. It doesn’t send a message of acceptance, and friendship. He couldn’t even be accepted “despite” who he is. How is him changing who he is to feel a sense of belonging acceptance?

(And I don’t even mean traits such as his coldness or harshness. No, I mean everything from his own way of speaking, his intelligence, his ability to stick up for himself, his ambition, his mischievousness, just… all of it. He lost even the non “difficult” traits.)

He wasn’t worthy of being loved as is. He had to conform in every way. From the way he expresses himself, all the way to his mannerisms. Consciously, and subconsciously. He rejected pieces of himself, to become like those around him.

I understand why the writers did this as they are ignorant and the series was never meant to be about Loki or about uplifting him, but to have “fans” accept this… Loki, I’m sorry they couldn’t love you for who you were. I know he’s not real, but it makes me emotional that the characters around him didn’t accept him for who he was, nor do his “fans.”

Ignorant “fan” talk aside, the writers in the first place didn’t understand that one of the reasons we love Loki is because he wasn’t loved for who he is. No one who truly loved him, wanted him to change and conform to other’s ideals. I understand that Loki needed to be dumbed down and stripped of everything that made him himself in order for the series to work, but no one wanted this.

To make the god of mischief, someone who’s chaotic in nature, conform to order… ooh, it is so irritating.

And this is one of the reasons I dislike the motives behind the costuming in the series. It’s not because I hate Tom Hiddleston and don’t respect his choices, or because the costuming is ugly (it is, but that’s not what I’m here to talk about), it’s because I hate what these choices represent. I hate the fact that people feel that they need to change every aspect of who they are in order to be loved, when there is always someone who will love you for who you are. I hate that it’s encouraged, and seen as acceptance when it’s nothing of the sort.

‘The new costuming shows humility’, as if Loki was ever allowed to be anything but humbled in the first place. As if he were allowed to be above anyone in the first place. As if he was able to be celebrated in the first place. Those “bad” traits, were never accepted. They don’t realize that just because Loki was the villain of the Avengers, it doesn’t mean he walked out successfully.

He was humbled just like in every movie he’s been in. Whether that’s him being rejected by Odin, disrespected by The Warrior’s Three + Sif, humbled by Thor ‘Know your place, brother’, tortured by Thanos, defeated by The Avengers, left to rot in a cell in the dungeons of the Palace he grew up in and was raised as Royalty in, denied the ability to say goodbye to his own mother after her death, threatened by people who were once his friends… You know I can go on forever.

I don’t think there’s been a moment where Loki was allowed to feel better than anyone else without immediately being shut down, denied, humbled, dehumanized, or humiliated.

So for that all to happen to him about a thousand times more in a series that was meant to uplift him… it just sucks. ‘Healthy self-worth and self- love’ he was stripped of who he was and constantly belittled, and did not stick up for himself. He just accepted everything that was said about him, and he accepted the disrespect. I don’t see how that is him having healthy self worth. He was treated horribly by those around them and instead of attempting to stick up for himself like in the previous projects he’s been in, he just accepted it. As if he felt he deserved it. He has less self worth/self love than he’s ever had.

He never got uplifted or praised or accepted or anything besides gaining new physical abilities and a new title. He’s been given a position he’s never wanted, because Loki’s always sacrificing himself. He’s always sacrificing himself the better of other characters, and other MCU plot lines. It’s what the MCU does when they get bored, or need to start a new plot.

I don’t want to see Loki be humbled. He already has been in everything he’s been in. He’s already been humiliated and made the laughingstock. I want to see him uplifted. I want to see him proud of who he is. I want to see him accepted.

I want him to realize he can be happy, even if he doesn’t belong or fit in. He can be loved for who he is.

The series did nothing of the sort, and I don’t know how people can be so unaware of that. Or if they are aware of it, I don’t know how they can accept it.

It’s not even the bare minimum “I accept you despite your flaws” no, it’s “I sort of accept you now that you’ve sacrificed yourself for me and changed every aspect of who you are, but I still do not like you as a person and I still won’t give you even the most basic respect.”

I want better for him. Not more humbling that he accepts without any complaints.

Loki I’ll always love you for who you are

[loki-us]

Welcome to my Mega Problematic Sylvie post

I wanted to make a list of everything problematic about Sylvie in s1 and s2 because she gets away with whatever she wants and it bugs me to no end that she never takes accountability for any of the pain she causes.

You have been warned. So let's get into it.

1. Sylvie’s way is the only way and she expects everyone else to just bend to her will without complaint

2. She is physically mentally and emotionally incapable of trusting anyone besides herself

3. She uses other people's emotions to manipulate them into getting what she wants

4. She refuses to even entertain the possibility that anything besides her own opinion is correct

5. She criticizes others' attempts to clean up the mess she caused while she herself does absolutely nothing about it

6. Always looking to ruin and run, taking the easy way out and avoiding any accountability

7. Puts her own need for revenge above the well-being of everyone else in the multiverse

8. Blames everyone else for the problems she herself caused

9. Insults everyone at the TVA for their lack of empathy despite it being the exact reason she didn't want to return in the first place. Every critique she delivers just illustrates how much of a hypocrite she is

10. Berates Mobius and all the people who are actually trying to fix her problem even though they never once blamed her for the mess they're in

11. Acts like she's doing everyone a favor just for being there and insulting everyone when in reality, Loki had to ask multiple times before finally getting her to return

12. Never willing to put in more effort than just destroying everything and walking away

13. Even when directly asked for her help, Sylvie straight up refuses. She couldn't care less about anything besides her McDonald's employee-of-the-month badge

14. Sylvie gaslights Loki into thinking they're the same, that she's not in the wrong because they're both only thinking of themselves. In reality, Sylvie is thinking only of going back to her own timeline, alone, while Loki is thinking only of making his friends happy, because that's what makes him happy too.

15. While being completely unsympathetic to Loki struggling with his greatest fear, Sylvie makes the decision that Loki's friend's are all better off where they are now. But is it really better for them, or just better for Sylvie?

16. And now, after 11 episodes and countless requests for Sylvie's help, she actually cares about the rest of the multiverse. And yet it's still solely because her own timeline is finally in danger

17. When Loki ends up sacrificing himself to solve the problem Sylvie created, her only response is a joyful shrug that she's now happy, alone, and responsibility-free.

Overall, I know Sylvie's only purpose as a character is to be a darker mirror of Loki and everything she does is understandably informed by her trauma. This is likely a result of having a limited-episode-series and having all male/not diverse writers creating female characters. Sylvie is used only as a comparison to Loki before he met Mobius, and unfortunately is never given any thoughtful character moments like Loki had showing how he was aware that his actions hurt others. In 1x1, Loki talks about how he doesn’t enjoy hurting people and only does it to maintain control. The only time we ever see Sylvie reconsider her actions is when she didn’t kill Timely, which I think is more because she saw herself in Timely as someone who didn’t want to be controlled by their ‘destiny,’ not because she developed any kindness or compassion toward him.

I understand the fact that Sylvie was never given someone like Mobius to allow her the opportunity to change like Loki did, but I don't think that should excuse her causing so much pain and being so self-centered. Sylvie never trusted or cared about anyone and that's also my biggest argument against Sylki; her loving or being driven by anyone besides herself is just so inconsistent with her entire character.

Anyway, my purpose here was not to be hateful or to search for any reason to criticize Sylvie, but instead to look critically at her character since I've seen a lot of people praise her as the strong, independent female Loki whose behavior can always be forgiven. Unfortunately, the way she was written is that Sylvie turned her own trauma into everybody else's problem and they all spent 2 seasons trying to clean up her mess. That's my take thank you and goodnight

[bitchliteraria1906]

People vilanizing female characters for the same reasons they love the male ones is bad, but you know what's also really annoying and I don’t see anyone talking about? When the character actually has issues, either in the sense that she's a shitty person, or was written badly, or both, but the fandom STILL picks the misogynistic reasons to hate her, and it makes criticizing her without sounding like a jerk extremely difficult.

[unityrain24]

once again wishing begging dying for series loki and og loki to be different character tags on ao3

[agentoffangirling]

Pov Marvel confirms Lokius for Pride Month

[musclesandhammering]

Idk which is worse, the delusional loki*s stans that are braindead enough to be convinced that the company that butchered the show’s queer rep is actually gonna make their ship canon or the annoying ass s*lkis that think having yet another unnecessary cookie cutter heteronormative romance that takes away from the plot and Loki’s character development is a good and profound thing.

I just wanna talk about the show without seeing 16379490405 posts about how “uwu he loves him/her so much, he/she is his new glorious purpose 🥹”. Like. That is SO NOT the point of the show, guys.

[jennrypan]

I need people to stop tryna gaslight me into thinking this show was good and it did Lokis character justice

Like what do you MEAN there are people that fucking like this shit and think it was good?? I thought that was a joke, please be so fr.

The series started off as being about Loki (Avengers 1 loki mind you, the loki that stabbed out a guy's eye. Who was in his worst state and getting shit done by any means. The loki still fresh of his family problems and Thanos mind control.)

But then. It's abou5 fucking Time nazis and stupid shit and then oh low and behold there's a BETTER loki, and oh! She's a girl so he can have a crush on her! Nevermind how fucking weird that is and then this version is better than him in every way (Also she's a fucking oc. Lady loki is nothing like this. 🙄)

This fucking girlbossified nonsense is what Loki became. It wasn't about Loki or HIS struggles but how much Sylvie suffered. And how he has to deal with his issues cuz it's not as bad??

Like nevermind the issues Odin placed on him at a young age, hiw he never felt accepted, how he never felt equal to Thor cuz Thor was the favorite. Nevermind the torture he went through with Thanos and how Frigga died and how that affected him. (No yeah let's blame him for that. Thanks Mobius you cunt.)

And then! Let's frequently insult, belittle or hit him whenever it's necessary cuz I'm such a girlboss I can be an asshole 24/7 cuz My universe died. Or let's put Loki in a fucked up little memory where he's repeatedly kicked in the balls for some stupid ass reason. (Wow Mobius is SUCH a good person to ship with Loki, woooow. This is yalls ship?? Be so fr.)

AND THIS IS ALL FROM SEASON 1

And then we meet the Loki varients..which most of them shouldn't be a variant cuz Loki isn't some fucking title it's literally LOKI. Himself.

I can't even get through the stupid shit that was Kang and how Sylvie fucking destroyed timelines and oh wow she beat Loki again cuz shes just sooo cool, and SHE ruined the timelines and yet. Loki has to clean up her shit??

Come the fuck ON.

Loki should've stayed dead in Infinity War this is so fuckjng insane.

Lokis whole thing was how much he loved Frigga and his brother, even Odin but he felt inferior and wanted to prove he could rule, despite being a frost giant (which we barely see mention of??) He barely talks about his family and now his fuckingg tag is allll about how these people tricked themselves into thinking Loki would get with Mobius of all people and giggling about this nonsense ship of himself.

Why is Loki allll about shipping now?? And the people he's shipped with trest him like shit!!!

Fuck. This series was shit and we needa realize that

[alwida10]

Apologies if you've already answered it. I've been reading your metas today and linked posts and ngl I really love them and I feel like we're in full agreement with everything.

With season 2 of Loki merely 6 weeks away (idk, are you going to watch it? I think I will, regardless of my current feelings about it) what are your thoughts about the upcoming season? What do you expect we'll get in it? Do you have any hopes for it, or do you think it will be more of the same. The current promo does not give me a good feeling tbh. Also do you think Hiddleston could leave the mcu at the end of season 2? Or at least if this could be the last time we see TVA Loki. Sorry for lenghty ask 🙈 my season 2 anxiety is off the charts, I expect it will be more of the same with Sylvie leading the story and Loki following her and I'd love to hear your thoughts about s2

Awww, thank you!!! Season 1 was something I felt so deeply for! All my hopes and dreams were focused on it. And then it shattered me in a way I didn’t know was possible. Now, I see that it took me a full year to cope and decode what I was feeling. The metas I wrote during this time (including the survey) are more like an open diary of how I processed the show and stabilized my mental health. It means a lot to me that now those thoughts may help others, too. 💚

I’ll put the answers under a cut, because there are some triggers included.

what are your thoughts about the upcoming season? What do you expect we'll get in it?

Frankly, I expect the season to focus mainly on Sylvie and her character development. If I put my criticisms aside and try to see what the creators wanted to do with the series, it looks to me like their only goal for Larry was to morph him from a villain to a hero in a way that would be undeniable for the general audience. This was achieved by him watching the video and finally finding someone he cares for. So his arc was completed in season 1. His role now is probably to serve as a guide for her, and maybe to discover that his true power is only achievable through or with her. I don’t count this as “his” arc especially, but more the core of the general admiration Sylvie is supposed to get from everyone in-universe. It’s a part of being a Mary sue. As is excelling at everything, even stuff that is opposite to your characteristics and you have no former knowledge on that would make it seem believable you’d excel. Like this, you know?

I‘m quite certain of this because Eric Martin is a huge fan of Sylvie and the ship. If you want to confirm I suggest looking at his Twitter. His tweets imply he intends to stay true to Waldron‘s and Harron‘s original ideas. This was confirmed by some people working on the set of season 2. I made the effort to find the original post, and it turned out that two people contributed to the post I experienced as thoughtful and reliable on Reddit. I personally believe those leaks.

Do you have any hopes for it, or do you think it will be more of the same. The current promo does not give me a good feeling tbh.

I think it will be more of the same. Sorry, I wish I could tell you something more to your taste. I absolutely share this feeling, and so do others.

Also do you think Hiddleston could leave the mcu at the end of season 2?

This article claims that Tom was supposed to leave the MCU at the end of season 1. Allegedly, season 1 was supposed to have 12 episodes and only was cut short because of Corona. This would mean that the original end of season 1 would be now the end of season 2. Does this mean he will leave? I can’t say. Disney‘s stock is progressively decreasing. Social media opinions on the MCU seem to grow more and more negative and depreciating. Perhaps Iger and Feige feel like Tom is one of the last strong pillars and try to keep him. At this point, I wouldn’t put it past them to try to keep the MCU afloat with Tom’s personal fandom. I don’t think that will work since Google stats show that his popularity decreased after season 1 to a point where it is now below the level it was after endgame. But they might attempt it.

Or at least if this could be the last time we see TVA Loki.

Even if he leaves I assume cameos are always a possibility, especially now that the studios are utilizing AI. But Loki? I‘m heartbroken, but I am very sure we have seen the last of him in TDW (and Ao3). May his reign bring him all the joy he deserves.

So last but not least:

idk, are you going to watch it?

I honestly don’t know. I certainly won’t pay for it. The last time I always watched the episodes was the day they came out so I could write my thoughts down here. But ngl, I’m tired of the fighting, the anon hate, and the feeling that opinions online are getting more important than the love for Loki. Right now, I’m trying to focus more on my fanfics than on the canon. Season 1 made me unable to continue my fics for almost a year. I don’t want to repeat that with season 2.

I still think that the show has done great harm to the fandom, to (some) people with poor mental health who needed Loki as a focus point, (some) gender-fluid or non-binary people who got exposed to sexism because of it, and possibly Tom‘s reputation (based on the google trends Infos). But for season 2 we know what to expect. We know it’s not Loki but Larry who will appear. And in this case, I think it might be best to leave the season to those it was made for, so they can enjoy it and keep as far away from it as possible.

If you want to watch it and still want to give Disney some negative feedback, I recommend watching every episode more than 7 days after it aired. Afaik Disney only counts views in the first week as real interest. Alternatively, 🏴‍☠️.

[id-kneel-for-loki]

loki show slander (and fic recs to heal your soul)

has anyone else watched the loki series and been left with a very weird, negative feeling? almost like you’re out of place or that something is wrong? because when I first watched the show, it made me feel super weird, but in a bad way. 

I couldn’t understand why at first because when I looked on twitter to see what other people thought about the show, every opinion I came across was super positive, praising the show for “showing Loki’s vulnerability” and “showing depth to the character”. 

this made me feel super terrible because loki is literally my favorite character, and yet I couldn’t understand why the show left such a bad taste in my mouth. I also felt really guilty because as a loki-stan, I felt like I was obligated to like the show, and yet I didn’t. 

but recently I started to come across other opinions that are similar to mine and suddenly so much things make sense. and better yet, I’m so relieved that I’m not the only one who thinks they screwed up the character and botched a show that had so much potential.

anyway if the show makes you feel like you want to bleach your eyes, here are some Loki fanfiction recommendations because most fans have a better characterization and more respect for the character than the actual writers of the show: 

Frostbite (by Maiden_of_Asgard)

“Iceland is nice - sure, you probably should’ve picked a time of year when the weather was a little warmer, but it isn’t too bad, and at least you’re away from your desk job, right? It’s a pretty big adventure.

You’ve always said that you wanted more adventure in your life.”

this is the best loki fic I’ve EVER read, and the one that started in all. I absolutely love his character in this, he’s so badass. 10000% recommended.

Aftermath (by Infinite_Monkeys)

“Thanos is dead. The world is saved, time is put to rights, and Earth has a team of capable defenders to, in theory, keep the planet safe from any further threats.

Fury thinks that his newly formed team might just drive him to an early retirement, if they don't give him a heart attack first.”

a crack fic to heal your soul

With One More Try (Can We Start Again) (by Infinite_Monkeys)

“Loki's attempt to conquer Earth has, to his great dismay, succeeded spectacularly. When Thanos sends him to collect the Time Stone, he strikes a deal with the Stone's keeper: he'll be sent back to the beginning of the invasion, and this time, armed with knowledge about his opponents, he can lose properly.

Or: a time loop fic in which Loki does increasingly desperate things to try and get the Avengers to defeat him already.”

The Undercover Boogie (by amcw117)

“In which Coulson's argumentation on behalf of the human race proves highly effective and gains S.H.I.E.L.D. a new agent with an interesting concept of covert operations. Naturally, things go awry pretty fast. Written for this prompt @ avengerkink on LJ.”

absolutely hilarious fic, love it

Throw Me (A Helping Hand) (by Quarra, RemingtonFae)

“Ok. Fuck. Here’s the plan.” Barnes casually stood up and leaned over to wrap an arm around Loki, careful to keep his back to those voices. 

“What are you---” Loki looked at Barnes in confusion, and pressed back a little, pushing him away. 

“You can illusion yourself, right? You should do that. And then I’ll throw you at them as a distraction.” Barnes tugged Loki closer and fought down the panic that clawed up his back. 

“What?! No! No, I do not like this plan. I object. Strenuously,” Loki babbled at him, and put a little more effort into shoving Barnes away.

Steve was right behind them. Right there. Within reach. 

Barnes couldn’t deal with that.

Could.

Not.

“It’s a great plan. Guaranteed to work. They won’t know it’s you, and I’ll be gone by the time they look up.” With his left arm secure in its grip on Loki’s shoulder, Barnes grabbed Loki’s belt with his right. “Better get ready.”

“Barnes. Barnes!”

--

Or, where Loki is an absolute troll for the Powers of Mostly-Sometimes-Good, Bucky is having the worst century ever, and everything still manages to turn out mostly okay.

please read this I beg you it will heal your soul

That Boy Next Door (He’s a Real Hit) (by STARSdidathing)

“Tony Stark made a terrible mistake years ago. He married a horrible woman. Oriana Stane was the daughter of his father's business partner; the man who ran Stark Industries into the ground and left him in debt.

Now, Tony's living in Canada with a wife who hates his guts. And frankly, the feeling is very mutual.

His life is a mess and he can't find the escape route. He's honestly stopped trying. But then a new neighbour moves in. The guy is hot and funny but his name is really familiar. It takes one conversation for the penny to drop.

Loki Odinson is a contract killer in hiding from the Norwegian mob and if that isn't dangerous enough, what happens next might just end up with Tony knee deep in multiple murders and forming an attraction to a man who is known for never keeping witnesses alive. Whole Nine Yards AU”

also an amazing fic

Stormbreaker (by ladylapislazuli)

“With a shock, Thor realises Loki is flirting with him. Ineptly, true enough, testing his charms without the verbal skill to dazzle, every bit an awkward youth, but he is flirting.

Thor… is not sure what to make of that.

- - -

In which an attempt to destroy the Infinity Gauntlet sends Thor back in time, and a young Loki appears to be falling for him.”

this one is a thorki wip so I get if it’s not your cup of tea BUT the characterization and depth of both Thor and Loki are absolutely amazing in this fic

[agentoffangirling]

I think one of the things that pushed me over the edge to become a screenwriter over an actor is so I could fix the gigantic mess that is the Loki series

And if I can't fix it, then I make an actual good story where queer people don't feel baited

[gloriousburden]

A few types of MCU Loki fans I’ve encountered/noticed being in the fandom for over three years now:

DISCLAIMER: DON’T TAKE THIS TOO SERIOUSLY PLEASEEEE IT’S LIGHTHEARTED!! Some of these things apply to me as well, and some don’t lol. Doesn’t necessarily apply to everyone it’s all just for giggles.

The Lokius shipper Series Fan:

- Usually younger Gen Z. Can be anywhere from 14 to 23 years old. They’re younger teenagers most of the time.

- Heavily on TikTok but also on Pinterest/Twitter.

- Got into the MCU/Loki more recently. Either from the Series, or from Ragnarok.

- For some reason, wholeheartedly believes that one Tumblr post from like ten years ago that states Loki is 16/17 in human years. Even though that’s not canon at all and it does not work like that.

- Favorite depiction of Loki tends to be the Variant/Ragnarok. Sometimes Avengers.

- Almost ALWAYS a fan of Good Omens or OFMD.

- Obviously… Ships Lokius.

- Very anti Sylvie/Sylki, but LOVES Mobius.

- EXTREMELY anti Thorki, even though not a lot of people ship them anymore.

- Spreads a lot of misinformation. Such as taking the fact that Marvel confirmed that the Scepter influenced Loki, and mistaking that with them 100% confirming the theory of Loki being brainwashed by Thanos.

- Thinks Loki’s eyes are green???

- Newer to fandom in general.

- Doesn’t talk a whole lot about the series outside of the ships/fanon discourse.

- Making Loki tree/Yggdrasil jokes CONSTANTLY.

- Either thinks that Loki before the series was completely evil, or an angel. No in between.

- “For you, for all of us 🥺” / “Your savior is here!”

- Often forgets/doesn’t remember the fact that Loki/OG Loki are two different characters, and groups them together.

- Either a Swiftie who likes to constantly joke about when Taylor and Tom dated for 3 months like 8 years ago and also associates a lot of her Songs/Lyrics with Loki, or is someone who has a bit more of an Alternative taste in Music/Fashion.

- Doesn’t really talk about Thor that much, or really wants him and Loki to reunite.

- They’ve probably seen other movies including Tom like Crimson Peak, Skull Island, and High Rise. The more popular ones.

- Owns a lot of TVA related merch.

- “He’s not Odin’s son, or Laufey’s son… He’s Frigga’s son 🥺” or insists on calling Loki by “Laufeyson.”

- In Fanon, sort of treats Loki as a very normal, modern human, and not a god from an entirely different realm.

- Has either dropped the Series/their love of Loki a few months after the Series ended for the “next best thing”, or is currently still raving about all of it.

- Quite immature about other’s opinions/perspectives on Loki/or even people who ship the opposite ship from their own. This is mainly because they’re younger or because they really like their Fanon idea of Loki/Which ship should be Canon.

- Has some questionable headcanons/opinions of their own on Loki.

- Loves Frigga.

- Hates Odin.

The OG Loki fan who’s been a fan of him since 2011/2012, but is a bit more casual about his characterization:

- Usually a Millennial/in their late twenties or mid thirties. May even be in their fourties.

- Has been here for a good while, and saw just about every movie featuring him as well as other MCU movies in the theater when they first came out. Was probably a younger adult/older teenager when Avengers came out.

- Fanfic writer!!

- Favorite depiction of Loki tends to be Ragnarok, TDW, or Avengers.

- Mainly reside on Tumblr/AO3 but also on Twitter from time to time.

- “The Sun will shine on us again.” / “Love is a Dagger.”

- Some depict Loki in their Fanfics in a Smutty/BookTok YA Fantasy Novel style. Some in other ways. They also have a lot of fun with their Fics! So many AUs.

- They are carrying the Loki x Reader tag, I won’t lie. 🫡

- Doesn’t necessarily love the Series, but also doesn’t necessarily hate it. Does prefer the OG Loki they know and love over the Series and had a few disappointments with the Series, though.

- MAJOR Hiddlestoner. Some may like Tom more than they like Loki. Have watched his entire filmography and then some.

- A lot of them have really cool Loki related tattoos.

- Collects a lot of merch. Both from the Series, as well as more OG Loki merch. Also owns about fourty Tom magazines.

- Probably has met Tom/owns an autograph or something signed by him.

- Usually ships Loki with Sigyn, Jane, Tony, or an OC they’ve had since 2013. Honestly, I don’t personally see them that often anymore, but may ship Thorki. Does not really ship Lokius/Sylki whatsoever, or uses Sylvie as a bit of a self insert in Fics.

- Sometimes also a huge fan of Bucky/The Winter Soldier or Sebastian Stan. Associates Bucky and Loki a lot especially in Fics.

- Some are also fans of Star Wars who love Kylo Ren.

- Actually they like a lot of other morally grey characters.

- Probably has a pet named after Loki.

- Feels deeply for Loki, and relates to him in certain ways. Really likes humanizing him in their fics. Loves the more vulnerable side of him.

- Loves Frigga.

- Hates Odin.

The Loki purist/“He’s literally me” Fan:

- Anywhere from 16 - 28 years old. May be a bit older than that. Usually Mid/Older Gen Z, or younger Millennial.

- Has either grown up loving Loki, or became a fan a bit more recently.

- Favorite depiction of Loki tends to be TDW, but obviously can be any of the three OG depictions of him.

- LIVES on Tumblr. A bit of an extinct species elsewhere, but some may also be on Twitter.

- #1 Loki defenders. Very protective of/sensitive about how he is depicted not only in Canon, but also in Fanon. Usually deemed as harsh by series fans/non series haters whenever they criticize the Series or Ragnarok, but in reality, deeply relates to Loki and takes it very personally when he is depicted inaccurately. They see themselves in him, and are so, so, SO tired of seeing him mischaracterized. But also can be genuinely harsh at times. I’ve been guilty of that.

- Either heavily believes the “Thanos Brainwashed Loki” theory, or completely rejects it.

- “I never wanted the Throne. I only ever wanted to be your Equal.” / “Trust my Rage.”

- Very creative. Creates Art of Loki, Fanfics, Edits, Cosplays him, etc…

- Sometimes weirdly resembles him in ways??? LOL. Taking “He’s literally me” literally

- Has a more Alternative taste in Music, Fashion, Aesthetics, etc..

- They either see Loki as their bff, their life partner, or as an enigma to observe. Or all of the above.

- Pretty into Norse Myth, and likes incorporating aspects of it creatively, or when talking about Loki.

- Has a good amount of Fandom experience, and does not tend to argue with other Loki purists/OG Loki fans over petty things. Because at the end of the day… it’s just Tumblr. And we usually all have a common middle ground. Or, is constantly arguing with others.

- They don’t really ship Loki with anyone, but if they do… it’s usually Sigyn or Thor. Or someone really random.

- Either really enjoys depicting Loki in a more Feminine/Neutral form, and wishes his fluidity was depicted in the MCU, or doesn’t talk about it all that much.

- Single handedly keeping the memory of Loki (prior to Ragnarok) alive. 🫡

- Loves the comics, or hasn’t touched a single one.

- Disliked Taika Waititi before it was cool.

- Lost complete trust in the MCU after the handling of Loki’s characterization in Ragnarok, and had no hope in the Series when it was first announced. Or… really hoped it would be our last hope.

- Either deems Thor as the origin of all evil, or actually likes him.

- Wishes it was still 2013 everyday of their lives.

- Either respects/likes Tom to a certain extent, or really does not like him.

- Has a few really cool merch items, or has a lot of everything and anything they can find that doesn’t include Ragnarok/The series. Usually, they DIY their merch.

- Needs to emulate him at any given moment and in any way possible.

- Likes Frigga, but acknowledges that she has messed up in ways. Or really does not like her, period.

- Hates Odin.

The… Male MCU casual/dudebro who strictly lives on TikTok/Instagram/Twitter and did not really like Loki that much until the Series finale came out and thinks Loki is a Sigma Male who dropped everything in order for his friends and his… “Girl” to live:

- ????? Wtf

- Okay I added this one more as a joke because obviously they’re not Loki fans, but…

- Anywhere from ages 15, to 24. No older than that.

- Definitely disregarded Loki’s character before the Series. Also due to him having a fanbase where Women/Girls are the majority. Now Loki is the best MCU character and has the best arc out of everyone else. 🤦🏻‍♀️

- Wholeheartedly believes that Loki was a narcissist/was overreacting about everything he’s been through, or believes that Loki is an angel now because he had a “Redemption Arc”.

- Has never picked up a single Loki comic.

- Jokes a lot about Loki “loving” himself (Sylki kiss).

- Calls the Series “Peak Fiction” just because the rest of the bullshit the MCU has been putting out was absolute garbage, and also because they haven’t really watched anything else.

- If you as an actual Loki fan correct them on any of their bullshit, they act like they know more than you because they loved the series. How could anyone hate it?

- Makes self insert memes/tries to project onto Loki in the absolute worst ways possible.

- Worships the ground that Michael Waldron walks on. Though, they all hated Multiverse of Magic..

- “Let time pass…” / “I know what kind of god I have to be. For you, for all of us.” (Once again.)

- Similarly to our Lokius shipper Series Fans… they do not realize that Loki/the Variant are literally two different people.

- Loves Mobius JUST because he is portrayed by Owen Wilson.

- Also very annoying about Loki being confirmed bisexual in the Series.

- Really wants not only Thor and Loki to reunite, but also Hela.

- Hated the earlier Thor movies, loved Ragnarok, hated Love and Thunder.

- Probably thinks the treatment of Thor in Endgame was funny af.

- Who’s Frigga?

- Loves Odin probably. (Hehe)

[unityrain24]

me when the loki series

AO3 writers when canon sucks:

[lokisprettygirl]

Actually one of the writers in the show flat out said that she didn't get why people liked Daemon so much and why he was so popular

I didn't know that. Well I guess casting Matt Smith was probably not the smartest idea then if they wanted people to hate him or detest him, that man can read a phonebook and there would be people still willing to listen to him. Also that's a stupid take coming from a writer, anti heroes and morally grey characters often get popular especially if they're played by a man who's charming and sweet off screen, same goes for Loki and that man was a war criminal in the actual sense of the word, attempted genocide of his own kind but he was so loved that they had to make a whole series on his name.

The only reason I'm watching it still is for Daemon.

[percheduphere]

people saying, oh it wasn't intended from the beginning so it wasn't intentional thus has to stay fanfiction bug me. like, shows can develop organically based on chemistry. they can surprise you and take you in a direction that wasn't planned but now just works. like, fucking, chandler and monica wasn't planned from the beginning! but the actors had chemistry and the writers tried it out and it became iconic. you don't throw something away just because it surprised you instead of being pre-planned; you cultivate whatever gold you find!

With Hollywood entertainment in particular, I think there is a lot of ignorance regarding how the creative process, production process, post-production process, and business all work. It is readily apparent that in Hollywood, there are many hands in the kitchen when it comes to creating a movie, documentary, or show. The "Original Intent" argument is weakest when it comes to Hollywood art, and in fact fails to be a viable argument in multiple areas. I will discuss how the "Original Intent" argument fails in Hollywood in more depth under the read more, using what I know from having worked in the industry myself as a writer. And to be honest, the fact I have to pull my private professional history out online, just to prove I'm not being delulu when it comes to the importance of queer subtext in film, pisses me the fuck off.

To be clear, since this whole discourse mess on my Tumblr is likely the result of someone thinking I'm an anti-sylki: I AM NOT AN ANTI. I have an extensive analysis on Sylvie as an integral character to the Loki series, Sylki in canon, and her relationship with Mobius here.

I agree with you: a lot of amazing art deviates from the original intention, especially writing. If deviating from original intent in the writing process did not exist, we would not have DRAFT REVISIONS, we would not have IMPROV, we would not have EDITORS (whose entire job hinges on giving the writer not only grammar corrections, but feedback on how to IMPROVE character, plot, and pacing, which inherently means making changes from the original intent!). This is to say nothing of the thousands, if not tens or hundreds of thousands, of media scholars--with actual PhDs--who spend years of their lives performing meta-analysis to write academic papers on subject matters like this. Papers that become formal publications and contribute to how queer history is taught in universities! This is no different than academic scholars analyzing women and race representation and resistance in film. Why should analyzing queer representation and resistance in film be treated any less?

LET'S TALK ABOUT ORIGINAL CREATIVE INTENT VS POWER HIEARCHY & POLITICS IN HOLLYWOOD

For context with respect to this ask, a different Tumblr user critiqued against queer subtext in one of my posts using the "original intent" argument for the Loki series and Lokius specifically. By this logic, if original intent is always honored, then the original script for Loki's S2E5 (written by Eric Martin) would not have been NUKED by the executive powers that be at Marvel. [source] But no, the original intent was not honored, it was rejected. So how does one square the primacy of original intent with original intent being rejected by people who are not the artist but the people who manage Disney's finances?

In television, "Executive Producer" (i.e. Tom Hiddleston, Michael Waldron, Eric Martin, etc.) is a title that can be given to a writer or actor who has more creative say in the execution of a story than a regular staff writer or actor on crew. It also indicates that the writer or actor is in a much higher salary range compared to their professional peers. It does NOT mean the same thing as a CORPORATE "Producer" of Kevin Feige's level, who ultimately has the FINAL SAY on what does NOT end up on the cutting room floor. The corporate Producer must take into account the wishes of corporate's shareholders and board of directors, who are often multi-million if not multi-billion global investors who need the distribution of the product to succeed internationally in countries like China, which is very anti-LGBTQAI+. This is how a script like Eric Martin's S2E5 can be nuked and the writer can be contractually gagged from talking about its specific contents by Disney, lest they be SUED TO HELL for breaking their non-disclosure agreements (NDAs).

This doesn't even take into account politics.

In 2020, Ike Perlmutter, Chair of Marvel, "gave $575,000 to Trump For Victory, $35,500 to the Republican National Committee in April, $5600 for Texans For Ronny Jackson in February. 2019 saw him donate $248,000 to the Republican National Committee, $466,100 to Trump For Victory, $5,600 to Donald Trump For President." His wife, Laura, mirrored those donations. "In late 2016, he also gave $5,000,000 to the Great America PAC." [source] Ike was only recently laid off from his position in March 2023 [source]. Perlmutter was in a power-struggle at Marvel with Kevin Feige for years. Feige was promoted to Chief Creative Officer in 2019, which brought the power struggle to a head, ultimately contributing to Perlmutter's departure.

There is also Bob Iger, CEO of Disney, who was famously quoted during the Writers Guild of America strike for saying, “It’s very disturbing to me. We’ve talked about disruptive forces on this business and all the challenges we’re facing, the recovery from COVID which is ongoing, it’s not completely back. This is the worst time in the world to add to that disruption”

This is the worst time in the world to negotiate to pay your writers, YOUR CREATIVE LABOR FORCE, who entertained millions of people while they were stuck in their homes for 2 years, fairly?

And these are just two men in executive power at Marvel and Disney. We're not even talking about all the other board members and shareholders. You think Tom Hiddleston, Michael Waldron, and Eric Martin have any real power compared to these guys? They do not. They are peons by comparison. And these artists (despite their "Executive Producer" title) are always at odds with the Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers (AMPTP), who are ultimately not artists but FINANCIERS.

Here's another quote from a studio executive that occurred during the writer's strike:

"Receiving positive feedback from Wall Street since the WGA went on strike May 2, Warner Bros Discovery, Apple, Netflix, Amazon, Disney, Paramount and others have become determined to “break the WGA,” as one studio exec blatantly put it.  

To do so, the studios and the AMPTP believe that by October most writers will be running out of money after five months on the picket lines and no work.

“The endgame is to allow things to drag on until union members start losing their apartments and losing their houses,” a studio executive told Deadline. Acknowledging the cold-as-ice approach, several other sources reiterated the statement. One insider called it “a cruel but necessary evil.”" [source 1] [source 2]

Fortunately, this negative press and the WGA members' solidarity led to the WGA getting everything they demanded. I still have friends in the industry, specifically in the WGA and MPEG. A lot of them were indeed starved out. My friend who's a film editor is still unemployed because pre-production has only recently started to ramp up again and her profession is all in post. She has to wait for production to catch-up and finish in order to get work.

If the AMPTP is willing to use clearly unethical tactics to underpay their writers and actors (don't forget the SAG-AFTRA strike that joined later), do we really think members of the AMPTP (the studio execs) are willing to honor artists' original intent if the original intent may be "offensive to some viewers" and therefore can potentially cut into their financial bottom line?

We're not naive. We know the answer to this.

OUR FLAG MEANS DEATH, KILLING EVE, AND GOOD OMENS

But what about OFMD, KE, and GO? These shows are on MAX, BBC, and Amazon Prime respectively. These corporations have a different branding image than Disney. Disney touts itself as "family friendly"; (read: on-screen LGBTQAI+ affection between two lead characters is "not family friendly"). MAX and BBC's branding type also affords them the luxury of creating content for niche audiences. Disney, on the other hand, makes additional revenue through using their plethora of licenses to make toys, additions to their theme parks, and other merch. If a parent is offended that a canonically queer character like Loki has romantic love not just for Sylvie but also for Mobius (a same-sex relationship), what are the odds of parents like them not buying Disney's merchandise? We can apply this same question to Star Wars, Pixar, and any of Disney-branded animation or live action movies. How deeply can audience offense potentially cut into Disney's bottom line? If there were no discrimination taking place, we would have LGBTQAI+ representation through a lead character in any one of their licenses already. We do not, and that is a huge red flag.

In addition, these entertainment corporations (who do not tout themselves as "family friendly") generate other sources of revenue elsewhere. Netflix generates international revenue through the production of international programming like "Squid Game" and other K-dramas such as "The Glory" or Mexican shows including, "The Surrogacy" and "Haunted: Latin America". MAX is struggling. They were bought out for that reason. With AppleTV and Hulu, their target audiences are more diverse, they offer a variety of media product, and their business strategy is ultimately different from Disney. All of this grants them more freedom in what kind of characters they choose to represent, including LGBTQAI+ characters.

Remember House and Wilson from House M.D.? That show was on FOX. We know the political alignment of FOX. Dean and Castiel from Supernatural? WB Television. Both shows came out before streaming became dominant, and thus, these shows had to cater to anyone who might happen to land on their channels. When the market demands that you cater to the widest possible audience in order to generate the largest revenue, the creatives are forced to create relatively conservative artistic product. Hence, creative censorship and our long history of queer subtext.

At Nickelodeon, the artists actually had the support of corporate to move forward with Korrasami because the final season Legend of Korra was only available online. It did not air on their channel. If that had not been the case, corporate would not have approved Korrasami. However, that approval was contingent upon the artists being subtle subtle about Korra and Asami's relationship. Even in this canon ship, the animators relied on subtext for queer romance.

Not helping Disney's case is the cancellation of "The Owl House". Why was "The Owl House" canceled? It didn't fit Disney's "brand". [source]

THE FAILURES OF THE "ORIGINAL INTENT" ARGUMENT IN HOLLYWOOD

The "Original Intent" argument fails when it comes to art in Hollywood because:

Original Intent can change, and often does change, during the creative process. This applies to all forms of art, not just Hollywood.

Multiple artists are involved in pre-production, production, and post-production. At any point in this 3-part process of filmmaking, original intent can be changed for a variety of reasons.

Studio Executives, Boards of Directors, and Corporate Shareholders have more power than the artists in Hollywood. If they think a product will not make money, they will order changes accordingly.

Disney specifically touts itself as "family friendly". Its lack of a lead character (in ANY of its live-action licenses) being in an openly queer relationship with someone who presents as the same sex, is the direct result of not wanting to lose conservative audiences.

Non-Disclosure Agreements (NDAs) are common in Hollywood and prevent artists from providing specifics regarding original intent. This is done not only to safeguard corporate's intellectual property (IP), but to also safeguard their public relations image.

THE ORIGINAL INTENT ARGUMENT WEAPONIZED

The "original intent" mindset can be either very naive or very cynical, depending on the thinker's motives for choosing this belief. Naive, in that thinking creative purity actually exists (it does not) or that oppression does not still occur in Hollywood (it does). Cynical, in that either the thinker doesn't believe in artists intentionally finding ways around mass produced arts' media censorship, which has in turn created our rich history of queer subtext in film, OR the thinker wants the "original intent" argument to invalidate a change they do not like.

The last motive is the same strategy used by fans who reject Miles Morales as being a real Spider-Man. The same strategy fans use to deny that Shuri is indeed the new Black Panther. Both are tactics used to mask racism and sexism beneath the veneer of "creative purity". Fans who have internalized racism, sexism, or queer-phobia may also use this tactic at a subconscious level to protect themselves emotionally from disappointment. Finally, there are fans who use this argument to invalidate another ship, usually a queer ship that cannot be formally canonized because of corporate studio power.

Regardless of the reasoning, using this argument is frequently insidious because it perpetuates straight white male dominance in media representation.

PERSONAL LIVED EXPERIENCE

I'm an old poc queer and have worked in Hollywood long enough to know that the writers' original vision rarely ever--IF EVER--pans out as originally intended. If you ever sit through a movie and wonder why the story feels so weird in certain parts, I can guarantee you that about 2/5ths of the time, a corporate producer stepped in and messed with the original story in post-production (usually in an poor, over-worked editor's dark editing bay) and ordered reshoots the director may not have agreed with.

I've also worked in the industry long enough to know that it is an absolutely toxic work environment in which women, people of color, and queer people still struggle to get a creative foothold anywhere. My first experience pitching a script to a prospective agent involved being asked to meet at a hotel for drinks. We didn't talk about my writing at all. What I thought would be a pitch meeting was actually the writer's version of the "Hollywood casting couch". Yes, I was propositioned. No, nothing happened to me. I walked out. This happened to me in June 2008. It was not my last experience. The "Me Too" movement that came years later in 2017 was in response to situations I have encountered like this.

Those of us who succeed are very rare, and 97% of the time, the executive staff is very, very white and male. There is absolutely oppression and exploitation of all sorts still happening in Hollywood. I fucking lived it and continue to have nightmares about it.

QUEER SUBTEXT STILL EXISTS

Thus, to deny queer subtext's validity as an art form and to only accept the words of those who are either in power or limited in what they can say because of those in power, undermines not only the artists' efforts to tell the story they want to tell but cannot tell explicitly, it also undermines queer joy and queer resistance in cinema. And yes, sometimes those artists are cis straight white male allies who want to tell these stories because they simply make sense for the characters. These people are the artists, not the financiers.

It's more mature to embrace, or at least leave alone, the loud joy others experience from shipping and performing meta-analysis instead of publicly pissing on them with the profoundly weak and ignorant argument of "original intent". Don't mess with me on this. The number of scripts I have worked on that completely warped from what I wanted, and then to have my writing credit removed or stolen, still makes me sick. Yes, I'm bitter, but I'm also glad I left.

[musclesandhammering]

This is all excellent but the whole point can be boiled down to “We both know that the sylkie romance never would've happened if sylvie was a dude loki.”

The "sylkie" crap is a perfect example of how brainwashed mcu fans are. The amount of "LGBT rep" that Disney puts in their products is so carefully precise as to not upset any homophobes.

And it's just enough for their staff to praise themselves endlessly on social media for the bare minimum, and to get the blind worship of their fans. It's a marketing scheme.

Disney writers often make products that have racism, anti-semitism, homophobia, etc. But you can't criticize this without die hard fans harassing you about "but the representation!!!".

So with the loki series, you can't criticize the show being far more comfortable showing multiple episodes of explicit hetero self-cest than they are having any real bi representation beyond one line. Because mcu shills will hit you with "if you hate sylkie then you're biphobic!!!!"

Like??? Loki isn't a real bisexual person who chooses not to be with men. He's a fictional character who was carefully written this way by a biphobic megacorporation that wants to get your money without losing money from homophobes. And we both know that the sylkie romance never would've happened if sylvie was a dude loki.

Not to mention they "confirmed loki as genderfluid" in an Easter egg without ever actually expressing this in the show at all. And apparently the other lokis were even shocked at the possibility of a girl loki?? LOL

Disney does not and will never care about you. Don't do their work for them.

[zepskies]

TOM HIDDLESTON MASTERLIST

Loki ❇️

Avengers/MCU

(**Notes 18+ only and/or smut)

A Vow of Silence** - (Loki x OFC)

When Thor leaves for Earth after destroying Malekith, Loki sits on the throne wearing Odin’s guise. Ada, sister to Fandral and an apprentice healer, discovers his rouse by the fate of her own terrible curiosity. The price of her silence is her life, and the God of Mischief finds he quite likes teasing her with it.

[Set before and through Thor: Ragnarok.]

Series Complete

James Conrad ⛰️

Kong Skull Island

Extraordinary - (Conrad x OFC)

Ada Bennett is an anti-war journalist who too often makes impulsive decisions that don't always work out in her favor. Not taking the TIME piece is one. Trusting James Conrad could be another.

Time** - (Conrad x OFC)

Since surviving Skull Island, Conrad has been living in New York with his new girlfriend Ada, trying to move onwards with his life and deal with the psychological consequences of his final mission. He thought he was doing pretty well at both, until Ada scores them a free trip to England, intent on meeting his mother.

[Sequel to Extraordinary]

Main Masterlist

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