#swampyswan

[artificial-radiance]

Love your Path in the Woods AU! In this one, how exactly would the behavior of the Monster change with the Princess’ actions? Does the Monster become the Presence after he kills the Princess?

I've been keeping vague on how the monster becomes these later variations, since i have friends and partners that follow me and I actually plan on running an interactive story game for them based on this.

But there are 3 main choices, story-wise, that change what may happen:

Do you leave your cabin armed or unarmed?

Do you go left or right at the fork in the path?

Do you attack, avoid, or approach him? Or do you act on fight, flight, or freeze when he finds you?

You attacking him and killing him while armed would lead to the Presence, meanwhile sparing him after bringing him near death would result in the Lashed. I won't say what direction you would need to go for that, but left results in the monster finding you, and going right is the reverse.

The Monster is reactionary - he changes based on what you've done to him, what could help him survive both you and the woods, and what might make you trust or avoid him more.

The Monster becomes the Presence in response to you ending him without giving him a single chance. He is, in essence, vengeful, and he wants you to feel the same as he did. He stalks you through the woods, and, in story, you would have to notice him before he makes himself known willingly.

[finalexpenses]

bith swampyswan and sapphireeyes1738379283 whatever the number was blocked me sorry lmao? i specifically said that people kept repeating the same points that i Dislike and saying them like they were good and then the both of you.... repeated the exact same points that i dislike and acting like they were good. my bad

[angstandhappiness]

INTERESTING either way, he's guilty of "tampering with what he should not" anyway, no what of its nature he is involved with

@swampyswan Also, I should point out that Narinder’s domain of Death is THE deciding domain that allows the others’ domains to matter at all. The reason people don’t like war and famine is because it’ll kill them. If Narinder gained the power to resurrect, it would have made his siblings’ domains obsolete.

Who Betrayed Who? A Cult of the Lamb analysis/theory.

The Bishops and TOWW give the Lamb conflicting accounts of the events leading up to the schism. So what actually happened? Who betrayed who? And why? I have a theory.

Let’s start with what they each say regarding the schism and the decision to imprison TOWW.

According to Shamura:

“Our brother, The One Who Waits. Back then he was known by the name Narinder. But as millennia wore on, he grew discontent with his role. He began to question. He was gluttonous in his ambition. And in my imprudence I loved him. For it, I lost my mind. For it, he lost his freedom. Can you fathom such betrayal, Lamb? Of your own turned against you? Would you like to find out?”

“The blame hangs heavy 'round my neck. I introduced him to ideas of change; for my domain is knowledge, and it is ever evolving. An organic state of being for myself, but for him... most unnatural. Death cannot flow backward. It was I who had him chained.”

According to Heket:

"It was not so long ago that we cast out the Red Crown. A mere thousand or so years. The heresy it preached could not be tolerated. Such noxious ideals... it could not be allowed. For this most damning of sins, the retribution must be slow and painful...And with greed and ambition unchecked, it drew Godly blood."

According to Kallamar:

“Please know, it was not my idea to cast out the Red Crown! The other Bishops, my siblings, the blame lies with them.”

And finally, according to The One Who Waits:

“You see me here in chains, reduced to nothing. But it has not always been thus. I was bound to this wretched place by the Bishops of the Old Faith. They betrayed me and left me to rot. Each of the four chains that bind me are guarded by one of the Bishops.”

All of them are vague about what exactly went down. The only other hint we have comes from the monument by the gates: “Here godly blood was spilled. Here Death no longer wished to wait.”

So: what actually happened?

Haro has some answers. He gives us some insight to TOWW prior to the split:

"He was unalike the rest of his kin. While others dealt with flux; chaos, famine, pestilence, war. Things in which their constancy must transpose. And yet he was the inevitable; the obstinate and irresistible. The one who waits. Truly peculiar, 'twould then seem, has appetency to invite the novel and the new, break ancient vow and primordial bond alike. Traditions stagnate and appetites augment, nonetheless. Doubt tears faith asunder."

Along with:

"Bonds of familial duty, turned instead to chains. Most voracious of appetites, curbed and contained. Most infectious of ideas cut off and cauterised before given chance to rot and spread. Cruel, verily. Alas, what other recourse was given? How does one kill Death? ... Alas. One cannot."

Haro is, as far as we know, an impartial observer to what happened. (I think based on his dialogue and seemingly intimate knowledge of the conflict, he witnessed it— but that’s a whole different post.) So his account is the closest thing we have to a neutral perspective.

From Haro we learn two key things, both of which are confirmed by Shamura and Heket’s dialogue:

1. Narinder was dissatisfied with his role amongst the Bishops. He was naturally curious and ambitious, while his domain was the only “static” one among them. In essence— he was bored, restless, and potentially feeling undervalued.

2. He was imprisoned to prevent a heresy from spreading. Which heresy? The monument and Shamura’s comments make it clear: “Here Death no longer wished to wait.” “Death cannot flow backward.” Resurrection was the unforgivable heresy.

Narinder realized that each of his siblings, whether they recognized it or not, had dual domains. Kallamar’s followers prayed for protection from pestilence, Heket’s prayed for protection from famine. They could presumably give health/fertile fields as well as inflict the opposite on heretics. Leshy's chaos could have become order, but as a "young" god, he hadn't yet reached that point. Shamura has two separate domains entirely, wisdom and war.

Narinder just had death. Static, never-changing, and irritating for someone who enjoyed the “novel and new.” I think the fact he’s a cat reinforces this. There’s even a colloquialism about it: “Curiosity killed the cat, but satisfaction brought it back.”

After serving his role, he became restless. Shamura then encouraged him to experiment with his domain, by their own admission. Perhaps they didn’t actually think Narinder would succeed, or perhaps they felt bad he was stuck in a static domain when it didn’t suit his personality. The result was catastrophic in the eyes of the Bishops: Narinder gained power over both life and death.

Why was this such a damnable heresy that it destroyed their family? A few reasons: the ✨Prophecy✨ Shamura (presumably) received, the implications of resurrection in the world of CotL, and what I think might be pre-existing divides within their family. This is where we start to delve into personal headcanons and theories, so hang in there for a second:

Narinder is the most powerful of his siblings. Full stop.

He is the hardest boss fight by far, even though he’s been chained for a millennia. You could argue that he’s empowered by the Lamb’s/cult’s devotion, but there’s a key flaw there: he imprisons the cult during the final battle, and blatantly turns against the Lamb. All devotion from the cult vanishes in that moment because the followers are very clearly pulling for the one fighting to save them: the Lamb.

So, Narinder was powerful. The most powerful. Perhaps he became the God of Death because he was instrumental in killing other gods prior to their ascension. He had a clear interest in necromancy and the world beyond, if we can assume the necromantic weapons are his. (Which they are strongly implied to be by their item descriptions.) So when they ascended, he had a fascination with death and was probably very, very good at killing— so Death initially made sense as his domain. However, Narinder was curious and creative and restless. He eventually got bored and likely began to resent his family. The most powerful of the Bishops, not capable of doing anything but waiting.

Then there was the family dynamic. Kallamar was afraid of Narinder. Heket seems antagonistic towards him. Leshy didn’t seem to have much of a relationship with him. So it’s entirely possible that resentment could have eventually led to a betrayal on Narinder’s part. But one thing held him back: Shamura.

I think Narinder was beginning to drift from his family, but turned to his eldest sibling because he still had great love for them. Shamura encouraged him to experiment, which was ultimately successful— one can presume he was intensely proud of discovering resurrection. He saw it as his crowning achievement and his way of finally leveling the scales between the five of them.

His siblings saw it differently. In the world of CotL, willing and unwilling sacrifices directly feed a god's power. Resurrection, perhaps in their minds, cheapened or weakened this power. Or, if we go with the theory that Narinder was the objective strongest, resurrection made him so powerful it scared them. If he can essentially grant eternal life to his followers, what’s to stop him from usurping our worship entirely? What's to stop a god of life and death from doing away with the others?

I think the prophecy was Shamura’s attempt to calm Heket, Kallamar, and Leshy’s fears regarding the discovery. Perhaps they had a way of divining the future— and received the aforementioned ✨Prophecy✨.

In turn, it convinced Shamura that the only way to preserve the majority of their family would be to get rid of Narinder. Haro’s dialogue strongly implies they discussed outright killing him, but realized given his domain it would be impossible. Imprisoning him was the only alternative, the only way to keep word of resurrection from spreading.

So. Who pulled the trigger first? Did Narinder actually plan to usurp his siblings, and the Bishops stopped him before he could? Or did Shamura completely blindside their brother?

I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle. I believe a betrayal was inevitable. Had the Bishops forbid resurrection and then left Narinder to his own devices, his resentment and pride probably would have eventually won out. Most of the affection they had for each other as mortals was beginning to wane, in part because they already seemed to look at him as a threat. If you treat someone like a loaded weapon, eventually they’ll decide to become one.

But I think at the true moment of the betrayal, it was Shamura.

They admit to being the one who made the final call, and also the one who encouraged him to experiment resurrection to begin with. Narinder was the closest to them in personality, and they seem to be the closest out of the five. (Some have even pointed out that TOWW chose not to watch Shamura fall to the Lamb— his dialogue as a follower implies he doesn’t know what their last moments were like, though he happily watched the others fall through the Crown.)

The most damning piece of evidence in my mind of Shamura being the true betrayer is the nature of their injury: Narinder split his favorite sibling’s skull.

The only one who outright says they loved him deeply. Because Narinder loved them, too, and in the moment of betrayal the worst of his pain and rage was directed at them. The one sibling he never thought would be capable of doing that to him. The one sibling who encouraged him to take this path, then brutally punished him for it.

As Shamura says, the two of them paid the heaviest price. The blame hangs heavy around their neck, because Shamura — the eldest and wisest of their family — set them all on the path of complete destruction.

Narinder, to me, is an excellent Lucifer allegory. Some will look at his very clear pride and say he deserved it— others will point out his true crime was challenging the existing status quo and trusting the person he loved most to listen.

[friday-night-unknown]

Hey, I just love your AU and your designs! I wanted to render a deceived Angel Whitty, cus he's my favorite.

I’M IN LOVEE 

THIS IS SO AWESOEM WAHHAHA this is looking so awesome !!! The lineart is so clean!!! I’m very extremely happy rn wahhahahasd to see this in my inbox really brighten my morning WAHHHHHHH <3 <3 (´▽`ʃ♡ƪ)(´▽`ʃ♡ƪ)

[temunitu]

I never liked the 2012 TMNT. Is it just me, or do all the turtles feel so... mean in that show? Like, I noticed when it first came out, but it became even more obvious when I started watching Rise, since the Rise boys are such sweeties. The ‘12 turtles always felt kinda bitter towards each other, and I know siblings fight, I’ve got them myself, but the way they acted made it so I could never get into it.

Long post, sorry @swampyswan! Also sorry, I forgot this was in my drafts.

TL;DR I know some people who still like the show and would rather pin all the flaws on the writers who really didn't do their research, which they're right! The writers... didn't do a good job. At all. But if you want an in depth in-universe analysis, read on!

I've done a lot of analyzing for the show and I think it boils down to: Splinter was very controlling (Rise of the Turtles: he didn't let them into the surface until they were 15, still really reluctant to do so*), he abused them physically (all the times he hit them or beat them up to teach them a lesson?) and emotionally abused them (yelling, gaslighting by using confusing word order), and blatantly favoring Leo over the others (by telling Leo things they all should have known) and creating a toxic environment with his sons (Raph literally says "Splinter always loved you more!" in Riddle of the Ancient Aeons)

The turtles turned out so cold and hateful towards each other because of Splinter's bad parenting. Whether or not he meant it, it still messed them up.

Some may argue Splinter faced a lot of trauma which probably affected the way he acted, which... yes, trauma will affect you. But trauma doesn't excuse him abusing his kids, no matter what he went through.

*some could even argue that 2003 Splinter did the same, but we've seen that the turtles disobeyed Splinter when they were little and went to the surface, which to me implies they weren't afraid of Splinter. In 2012, they asked every year and got the same answer (no) but they didn't even dare disobey him. They were afraid of him. BECAUSE HE HITS THEM.

Each of the turtles had flaws, which is good for writing characters. But they never grew. They just seemed to get worse or stay stagnant. Donnie yelled as much as Raph and verbally abused Mikey as much as Raph, Raph hit Mikey over literally nothing, Mikey was treated like a literal idiot but the writers slapped the label "ADHD" on him to justify it which made it even worse because it was terrible and inaccurate representation, Mikey victimized himself and refused to take responsibility for any of his mess-ups, Leo and Raph clashed because Splinter favored Leo over the others but Leo still didn't see it or address it at all.

They're cold and they feel more like reluctant roommates than a family, and I get that not every family is healthy, but the fact that none of the characters have an epiphany or even grow as people over the course of the show makes it very toxic.

[starberry-cupcake]

swampyswan replied to your photoset “In this world of Gems, there’s no one like you I was thinking about…”

This is such an important thing to note. I feel like people are just getting angry at Greg and calling him a villain when this is such a complicated situation.

This is a long reply, I’m sorry in advance for that. 

I’m glad I have been avoiding SU tags to dodge spoilers because I don’t wanna see people shitting on Greg like that, but I’m not surprised. 

I normally don’t explain my gifsets but I felt that one deserved the footnote, because it’s something I’ve been observing for a while and haven’t disclosed much because every time I try to talk about Pink it’s like I don’t just open a can of worms, I flip the entire shelf of cans over. 

But yeah, the thing that in-story bugs me the most about Pink, and that I hope but don’t expect to see addressed, is that her silence, which everyone respected of their own accord (because even if Garnet and Amethyst weren’t in the know with the whole reveal, they trusted Rose’s judgment), influenced Steven, who did not choose any of it at any point. Not telling anyone that she was a Diamond and forcing Pearl to stay silent about it was neglecting Steven part of his identity, because even if she wanted him to be human, she didn’t know for sure whether or not he was going to be one fully. 

I’m not saying this is a story problem (although I have problems with Future so far), I’m pointing it out because it showcases how parents, even those with good intentions, will mess up. Pink more so than Greg, but yes, both of them messed up. And that’s good storytelling for a coming of age story, it’s not necessarily a bad thing in itself (I reserve my opinion of Future’s storytelling for after I finish the show). 

Greg is a good man, a good father, but his lack of self esteem influenced the way he treated his own son, by limiting himself on how much to interfere. Steven, in Mr Universe, asked for human boundaries, even if simplifying and idealizing Greg’s upbringing. And people on tumblr are talking about how the lack of limits in Steven’s upbringing was derived of Greg’s childhood, living under such a household (and the fact that his parents didn’t open his letters says enough for me to not want to know more about them, which I think is an interesting opposite to the Thanksgiving episode). 

I wanted to show that it isn’t just that, in my opinion, it’s also how Greg, like the Gems, idealized Rose to an extent in which his lack of self esteem made him set himself as an “other” in opposition to them, an inferior “other”, and by doing so, he set himself as an inferior “other” in regards to a part of Steven as well. 

Greg’s acceptance of Rose’s silence about her past, although valid for him as a partner who consents it, and a central part of his relationship with Rose, influenced the fact that he became a single father of a child whose identity and physical form would be affected by the silences Rose kept. Greg accepted beforehand that Gem stuff was not his jurisdiction, not because he didn’t want involvement but because he didn’t feel enough to have a say in it, and that line he set himself to not cross influenced his perception of Steven. 

It’s ok that Greg wanted to respect Rose’s privacy as she did his, but Steven didn’t have a say in it, and differently from not sharing about his paternal family (which is an entirely different discussion), Steven not knowing Rose’s past affected him physically, mentally and in his safety. Rose wouldn’t have been able to guess about the Diamonds coming back, but she should have known that there was a huge possibility for Steven to be part Gem, part Diamond, and neglecting that information was to affect the way in which he developed, to whatever extent and in whichever circumstances. She knew, like Garnet says, that there’s never been anyone like Steven. Yet she took part of that information away from him. 

I think Future is doing things in ways I sometimes like and sometimes I don’t, but one thing it’s showing incredibly well, and which I think hits close to home for many of us, is showing how Steven being regarded by his family and friends as a well-adjusted, responsible, smart and good person made them assume he would just be ok and not question the fact that he was taking on so much. 

They didn’t even question that he was, at age 14, a political figure in the reconstruction of a society which had been under a totalitarian regime for thousands of years. AT AGE 14. And Greg’s lack of self esteem, his high regard towards Steven and the boundaries he set himself from Gem stuff didn’t make him question the fact that Steven was, after all, a 14 year old human boy in part as well. 

Everybody around Steven normalized the idea that he is good and he will be fine. That he’s got this. So much so that Steven himself feels discontent with the idea that he can’t be what everybody wanted him to be when he grew up, because he hasn’t got this. The show is addressing that things sometimes are not ok. Whether they’ll have the room to properly discuss it, though, is another thing entirely. 

[queer-here-and-in-fear]

SCREAMING. how do they ACCIDENTALLY make symbolism about their own hubris

replies via @swampyswan

yes this is a tragedy and yes i really fucking hope they make it out alive but also holy fuck if i could be convinced that a real thing was the plot of a horror movie about karmic retribution i think i get to laugh about it a little bc like.. the ceo is in their and his name is stockton fucking rush and he was quoted in multiple interviews saying that commercial innovation should override passenger safety while complaining about safety regulations made because of the titanic crash. they cut every possible corner. they named it the titan. after the titanic. they went to gawk at a mass grave and now theyve probably joined the bodies down their. the contract they signed had the word death three times on the first page. the company is named oceangate and multiple people dont know that and think its a watergate reference. they used a wireless playstation controller to get down there.

[sexilydrawn]

swampyswan replied to your photo: Come my children, I will take you under my hamster...

I adore how you draw them. I genuinely wish we got these characters instead tbh

Thanks! Yeah there are a lot of us who could turn even a concept this under developed OUT XD

[friday-night-unknown]

I love Unknown BF’s design, so here’s a little tribute for the funky gremlin

====

Oh !!!! You I know you!! Your Whitty's art is still one of my favorite ahsjdksksd AND NOW YOU DID A BF TOO **SCREAMS** YSOEOHAHAHJ AHHHHH THANK YOU DO MUCH FOR THE BOY????? I wuv him so much!!! He looks very cool in your style!!! Ahhhhhhhhh 🥺🥺🥺🥺🙏 I'm glad you like his design, because I like it too!!

Love the dripping effects 👀👀👀 very very cool ahhhhwhehehe 😭 thanksie so much!!

[bsidebf]

@swampyswan https://youtu.be/e9WZan2Iq6c

Note that this was posted well before april fools day

Carol and Whitty likers how we feelin tonight

[simplyender]

wow, i've been thinking the same thing! what's to say brett doesnt still have the nostalgia max powers? i mean, it could just be that he got it out of his system, since he was essentially just tripping on a mega-chemtrail/drug-overdose, and trips dont last forever, not to mention that we saw him dispel those powers once reagan snapped him out of it.

that being said i think it would be super cool if he still had said powers in him, so if this hypothetical scenario were true, chances are:

A: he cant tap into said powers because hes repressing them, and could also potentially be repressing his memories of the nostalgia max freakout event as a whole.

or B: since it all clearly came from a place of serious emotions and pain, and the fact that he was already slipping at that point (actively deciding to drug your friends into staying in the 80s with you is not cool, bro!), he could just not be able to access them without a high amount of environmental stressors, think of it like a hulk scenario, only it takes way more than just anger to set his powers off. both reasons are not mutually exclusive btw. in fact it might outright be both of them.

Ok for those who've watched Inside Job on Netflix, did Brett ever lose his 80's powers??? Like can he just use them but never brings it up ever again? Because it's never told THAT HE LOSES THEM???

[pessimisticshapewithablog]

"I think it’s because Narinder was already so powerful, and if he had domain over both life and death, there’s no telling how it would affect the other Bishops’ domains, and they were all scared of change, good OR bad. Would that mean that less people would die to things such as famine and pestilence? Would that grant him the full power to bring other beings back to life and render the concept of death meaningless?

After all, all of the Bishops’ cults profit off of fear; their followers fear punishment and death by famine, plague, etc. If Narinder blurred the line between life and death, then that fear is gone, and so is the Bishops’ hold over their followers."

- From @swampyswan

That's a great analysis! because their relationship and the way they speak about each other, I chose to believe that the  Bishops were not physically violent to one another. They appeared to care about one another to some extent. This belief made me think that it was not physical harm that the other Bishops feared from Narinder but change, of any kind, that they couldn't control. Or specifically, Shamura, as she was the one who decided Narinder needed to be subjugated.

The Bishops of the old faith appear fanatically faithful to the ways of the old faith, to the point that all other beliefs are seen heretical by them. I wonder why that is? It seems all old gods have long since disappeared. The bishops are bishops of the of the old faith, meaning some higher religious authority gave entrusted them with that title and responsibilities. As of currently, in the world of cotl, they don't have to keep pushing the religion of old faith on the world. They could grow and develop away from their current duties, like Narinder did, and no one would punish them. So why didn't they?

Narinder is/was the same way. He seemed to have a had a massive cult following before he was imprisoned. Maybe the size and speed at which he accumulated said cult worried the other bishops. Maybe, as Narinder grew in power, he became a megalomaniac, and started threatening the other bishops to submit to him. Maybe Shamura saw the monster that Narinder could become, but loved him too much, at first, to do what needed to be done to stop him.

The aspects of the Bishops would still work if Narinder was the patron of life and death. War, faminine, pestilence, chaos all facilitate death in some form, but not life. As a follower, Narinder says this,

"Lamb. Mortal life is so... fragile. So fleeting. So long did I stand at the gates between this life and the next, trapped at the nexus of what was and what wasn't."

It appears as though he was, or has been, trying to understand mortality far longer than just his inprisonment. He was more invested in understanding life than just wanting more influence and control.

Cult of the Lamb theory # 4

What action could Narinder have done that would have caused his siblings to turn on him so viciously?

Narinder's tryst with Forneus was frowned upon by the other Bishops but the conception and birth of Baal and Aym may have been the act that caused the Bishops to conspire to seal Narinder away.

Inspiration

"He was unalike the rest of his kin. While others dealt with flux; chaos, famine, pestilence, war. Things in which their constancy must transpose. And yet he was the inevitable; the obstinate and irresistible. The one who waits. Truly peculiar, 'twould then seem, has appetency to invite the novel and the new, break ancient vow and primordial bond alike. Traditions stagnate and appetites augment, nonetheless. Doubt tears faith asunder."

"He was unalike the rest of his kin. While others dealt with flux; chaos, famine, pestilence, war. Things in which their constancy must transpose."

The Bishops all have a specific sphere of influence:

Leshy = chaos

Heket = famine

Kallamar = pestilence

Shamura = War

Narinder = Death

The Bishops embody and express these aspects in the way they interact with their cult. Their followers pray to them to alleviate these illnesses and conflicts caused by the Bishops. It is a self perpetuating cycle subjugation with the bishops recieving fervor and devotion and their followers get a slightly less awful existance and safety from monsters.

Whether the Bishops actually NEEDED to do any of this to exist is unknown. Although I believe they do not. If anything they do these things because it was expected of them by the gods of the old faith or to validate their own existances. It gives them purpose now that their patron gods are gone. Those responsibilities were given to the Bishops by their Gods, and they will continue to do those actions until the end of time. Or these things would happen regardless of the actions of the Bishops, but then, who would take advantage of the fear and suffering of mortals to reap boundless devotion and fervor...?

"-And yet he was the inevitable; the obstinate and irresistible. The one who waits. Truly peculiar, 'twould then seem, has appetency to invite the novel and the new-"

Narinder's responsibilities are/were very different compared to his more fickle siblings'. Death is inevitable, it can avoided but only temporarily. Whereas his siblings have to work endless to accomplish their responsibilities, Narinder just has to wait. He can hold sermons and rituals if he wanted, but he had more free time to cultivate interests outside his station.

-break ancient vow and primordial bond alike."

Break an ancient Vow. The birth of children half god and half mortal might have been taboo or outright frowned upon in the Old Faith. Or the Bishops take a vow of celibacy and Narinder breaking that vow and fornicating with a mortal was akin to a cardinal sin. This act may have been the start of the other bishops concern in Narinder's actions. The Bishops seem almost blindly loyal to the Old faith, even after the Old Gods have faded from the world. In the beginning Narinder may have been just as loyal as the others but that changed with time.

-And primordial bond alike. This one is more difficult to decipher. I interpretate that this has something to do with Narinder being the God of Death in the world of cotl. So then how could a God of Death beget life, with a mortal no less. Or Narinder was dabbling in resurrection.

Traditions stagnate and appetites augment, nonetheless. Doubt tears faith asunder."

I do not believe Narinder did anything to his siblings that would cause them to fear for their lives and safety. They were all assholes equally but they didnt hate each other. It was Narinder's deviation from the old faith, the expected norms, his unrepentant heresy in their eyes, that caused his siblings to fear what his actions may cause. Narinder was arguable the more powerful of the bishops due to death coming for all thing mortal and god alike. The others knew if mortals began to be influenced by Narinder's heresy, he would be unstoppable, and their entire way of life would be changed or loss forever.

As far as Forneus, Baal, and Aym are concerned, I can't say if Narinder actually cared about them. I believe he is capable of caring for another living being as he reminisces about his siblings when giving quests as a follower but those three specifically, I just don't know. Narinder and his siblings a near immortal and have had centuries, if not millennia, to develop a familial bond but, the mortals that he's only for maybe less than a century? Not so much.

I feel like Narinder having children with Forneus was done more out of curiosity as to whether he could than actually caring about her and children produced. He or his followers did take her sons away never allowing them to see each other again. Nor does he ever mention her or them. Even when Baal and Aym die for him against the lamb, Narinder shows no concern or remorse. Given the way he speaks of followers, I doubt he saw his sons as anything but servants to use and discard as he saw fit...

"O what good are hearts if they cannot be given? I thought to keep mine to myself, once. Two kits I did have, true love found! And yet one lackadaisy summer day, my beautiful children were taken away… a gift, they said, for the one they loved most, the one that waits… I wept, I keened… But how can one say no to a God? Wherever they be, I hope they are as devoted and loving as I!" -Forneus

Update: After reading Forneus' quote again, I am beginning to think that Baal and Aym might have been sacrificed to TOWW, specifically during the summer, maybe the summer solstice or equinox. 'They' could be refering to Baal and Aym or the ones that took them away. That could be how or why, they are found with TOWW in his inprisonment, similar to how the lamb went to him when they were first executed, and subsequent deaths after that.

[geekgirl24]

No wait never mind @swampyswan just reminded me that it was confirmed by the rise crew that Donnie was second, my bad

Hmmm I kind of thought that Donnie was second but oh well

[boomclowntown]

@swampyswan this is Egg Yolk.

I made another Nina turtle OC named Egg Yolk y'all wanna see him

[bsidebf]

@swampyswan KadeDev in a mod development commentary

sock.clip whitty > whatever was going on in that mod developers commentary whitty