#sure abuse victims are messy and complicated and they will hurt people

[lomlompurim]

Saying that shen jiu's abuse of luo binghe is "not necessarily evil" because abusing others can be a "cry for help" is surely a take....a very awful take. Yes he needed therapy, A LOT of therapy. But HE didn't want help, by that point he was committed to keep being miserable and make others suffer too, he wanted lbh to die, how the heck is that a cry for help?

He was a very traumatized adult in a position of power continuing the cycle of abuse, very aware of what he was doing, and who should have never been in charge of children

[nomsfaultau]

Important PR Response to the Wilbur Soot scandal:

    Abuse in any form is abhorrent, and I condemn Wilbur’s actions. Previously I had established the division between people and personas in my work. I failed to reiterate the stance during the course of Fault, and would like rectify this now. I work with characters and not creators.

No works will be deleted. I will be continuing to use Wilbur Soot as a character only in preexisting works. Fault, Mandatory Family Reunion, and back burner projects will continue. The preplanned plot lines will not be altered greatly, so don’t expect sudden deaths, character assassination, name changes*, etc. However, I am not certain about Lighting Lanterns to Bring You Home as it is Wilbur-centric so it may be abandoned.

The current plans for this blog’s future are as follows:

- My characters be tagged as ‘Noms Wilbur’ or ‘SCP Wilbur’ for people who want to block tags. If cc comes up, he'll be tagged.

- I will not be financially supporting Wilbur in any way. I believe this is an important component in any Death/Disavowal of the Author situation. My fics are unlikely to contribute to further monetary/platform support that facilitates the further harm of the victim/s.

- No new AUs will involve Wilbur, so as projects finish he will be phased out more and more. Though keep in mind Fault is an extremely long term project.

- For those who wish to disconnect from the fandom entirely and stop following this blog, I wish you the best. Genuinely. This is a rough situation.

If anyone has any respectful and reasonable questions/comments, the ask box is always open. Please do not engage in bad faith; I am trying to do my best here. Below the cut I discuss my personal justifications and philosophies upon the matter. I’m not trying to force them on anyone, so please return the same courtesy.

    My reasonings: As I said after Technoblade’s death, I’ve poured a little too much of my soul into this to stop. I fully understand the people who have walked away, because I also feel sick and angry and sad and just— betrayed that this person I admired and enjoyed was abusing the people around him. But I am not going to let Wilbur’s vile actions poison the pride in the art I’ve made. And the fandom? We built it, not him. These are our stories and our drawings and our joy. So many other wonderful creators and fans poured so much effort into this community. To me, it feels like a betrayal to Technoblade’s legacy to let everything be tarnished. And I’m just not ready to lose this fandom that has meant so much to me for 4 years.

    I’m going to try for a little nuance here, a dangerous game on Tumblr I know. But part of the betrayal that I’m sure many of us are feeling is the thought we were tricked into liking a bad person. I have a friend who has been pouring over all of Wilbur’s content the last few days, desperate to find all the red flags they missed, painting every single thing he’s ever done with the knowledge of the things we couldn’t have known. And it’s not healthy for them, or anyone. In many stories we like to have a clear cut good and bad guy, because it’s easier if it’s true. The abuser becomes a cartoonishly evil caricature that makes it harder to recognize them in real life, and it makes real victims seem stupid for being hurt when shouldn’t it be so easy to tell? But it’s not, it’s messy, and complicated, and awful. Because in real life, abusers are people, and they can do good things like charity streams and making you laugh when you’re having a bad day and fostering wonderful communities of creative, amazing fans. They seem generous, and kind, because…they are. And they’re also abusive. And it’s really hard to hold both truths at the same time, which is why people prefer jump to extremes of defending and demonization. We like to believe the people we like are good people.

    Truthfully, I don’t believe in ‘bad people’ which is probably evident in much of my writing. I find it a category that too often used to discourage growth, remove culpability, and dismantle nuance. The moment people become monsters there is no question of rehabilitative justice, no question of what conditions and structures enabled this that need to be mended, revised, or replaced. The question becomes how do we destroy the monster instead of how do we protect future victims. Remove support from Wilbur, yes, but the next step is to give that support to Shubble. Mobs are fun. They feel right. But monsters don’t exist, people do, and people are complicated and abuse is complicated and their solutions must be accordingly nuanced. Sticking one guy’s head on a pike might ‘save’ the victim (which: Shubble saved herself), but it doesn’t support them in the long run. And it certainly doesn’t address the underlying personal, mental, and societal problems that caused someone to be abusive and allowed them to be undetected. And if anything, when put in a corner most people only get more desperate and dangerous to others and themselves. Justice requires far more effort than monster hunting, which is why it is often rare. And like we already discussed, people are often bad at detecting when someone is abusive. I’m not saying Wilbur is innocent, obviously. I’m saying demonization is a dangerous game and most people have done good and bad.

    But also, most people aren’t abusive pieces of shit.

    I don’t want to demonize Wilbur, but also I’m not going to wipe my hands of it by throwing my hands up, claiming there’s too much nuance blah blah morals are complicated, and then not actually hold him accountable. Wilbur does not deserve a platform with which to perpetuate his harmful actions. In reaction to this, we need to build systems and communities that don’t enable abuse, to support victims, and to help abusers become better without giving them the opportunity to hurt other people or themselves. Which, you know, is *slightly* outside the scope of one SBI fanblog, but I’ll do my best and pray others choose the same.

    I understand people who want to raze everything he’s ever touched, to delete all their fan works and eviscerate their love for anything involving him. I really, really do. I feel nauseous every time I try to write. But I’m trying to not throw the baby out with the bathwater, because I’ve found a lot of good here and I refuse to abandon it. My enjoyment of the story and community Wilbur helped inspire does not condone the bad he’s done, nor do I support him financially or emotionally. It’s a really difficult line to walk, but this is where my morals fall at least. I want to reclaim the joy I used to have.

    I hope Shubble is able to recover and heal from the harm done to her. She’s a wonderful person and is lucky to have friends and a community that have supported her in this time. I’m glad that the fandom has (mostly) collectively disavowed her abuser instead of exploding into controversy and a ‘he said-she said’ toxic mess a la Dream style, even if it hurts knowing much of the community we’ve built has been destroyed. Lastly, I pray Wilbur will become a better person. I would like to believe anyone has the capacity for redemption, but that is a decision entirely within his hands alone at this point. As for me, I will simply do what I think reduces harm and uplifts joy.  I may be wrong, but I will continue to do my best.   

Again, if anyone has any respectful and reasonable questions/comments, the ask box is always open.

[transhawks]

sorry for the cringe ask pls ignore if you want but with these chapters of the todofam do yuo think it is like "wrong" to not see anything poetic/pretty/anything like that about the family and mostly touya and endeavor situation? ive seen all these texts (not here though) abt how touya loves his father and is a Liar™ while also ignoring most of what he went through and his feelings of anger and bitterness i mean... sure there is/was love behind the hurt but i feel like i read the story wrongly

Okay, let's break down your ask a bit because it's not that I think you read the story wrong, it's that there's a missing component that I see a lot of people miss when it comes to stories like this:

you can love your abuser.

you can love your abuser.

most of us love our abusers.

Now, and I think this is something I believe that uhh I've argued with my friends over - I don't know how much parents who abuse their kids "love" them. It's complicated and a case-by-case basis, but I want to say that often it's love for what they want the child to be, not the child themselves. I've said it a few times over the years: out of the all the Todoroki children, the only child that got Enji as an actual father from the start was Touya. Toddler Shouto is scared of him, Enji seemingly didn't interact much with Natsuo as a baby or toddler, maybe to avoid the issue he had with Touya. And, well, bluntly, Fuyumi was essentially a baby sister for Touya's sake. Add to that the Japanese tradition of male primogeniture, and you get a very, very strong reason for why Touya loves his father and hates him at the same time, especially since this is met with apathy from Enji's end (as Touya thinks). As @pikahlua said recently, the opposite of love isn't hate, it's indifference. The actions and desperations of Todoroki Touya to be seen by the man he loves, no matter if the man in question doesn't deserve this adoration, are signs of a child yearning to be loved by his father, not ignored. Now, let's break down your ask: "Poetic/pretty"

Abuse isn't poetic or pretty. It's abuse. It's messy, and it creates rifts and broken, messy people who don't make sense and move through the world breaking things further. I know that's quite a harsh thing to say about other victims like this, but I'm not going to candy-coat it - victimhood is not virtuous. Being abused and victimized doesn't automatically make you good person or a better person, and you are not a better person for having struggled. In fact, honestly, trying to do good will be that much harder. And this is exactly why cycles of abuse are replicated.

Touya is both a liar and he isn't - because he's abused and that creates irrational feelings about the abuser and what happened. His lies are mostly to himself. That's how you get Touya maniacally making a video decrying all of hero society propping up abusers while trying to murder his younger brother in sheer jealousy that he wasn't abused the way he was.

I'm going to use the same words I use for Hawks: when are you people going to understand people who are fucked in the head are fucked in the head?

To me it makes sense that Touya has conflicting thoughts and feelings because people, especially mentally people who got there due to abuse, have conflicting thoughts and feelings. That's what you go to therapy to fix. (no one in BNHA goes to therapy) So, where does that leave you, anon? I think it's again about a greater question of what kind of stories you want to read. I will always agree we need more stories where child abuse victims walk away from their families and get to be happy about it. I get that the reconciliation stories like Encanto have their place, but for so long that's been such a big narrative in why people like me have to continue to have ties with people who hurt us. But BNHA isn't bucking that formula.

Horikoshi's own experiences and perspectives on abuse want wish fulfillment. And in his wishes, he wants the abuser to say sorry. Most abusers never get to where Enji has gotten. However, a good chunk of people don't want Enji to even say "I'm sorry" in the first place, and that's where I feel the story was just not written with them in mind. So, if you read the story wrong, it's because you wanted something different from it. You wanted a different type of narrative of abuse. Neither Horikoshi or you are wrong in wanting or writing this sort of story, it's just that the story is not for you. And accepting that will make you a happier person in the long run. Sometimes stories just aren't for you. I keep beating this like a dead horse; a large amount of the fandom, especially among my fellow villain-stans, didn't heed my warnings that the story wasn't going to end with what they wanted and they'd end up frustrated and angry at spending so much time for something that feels flat to them because they couldn't adjust their expectations. Lo and behold, it's too late now and now people are in their feelings about something they could have simply dropped or accepted. I'm sorry the story isn't for you and I hope you find a manga that suits you better in the future.

[acourtofthought]

I sometimes hate Azriel so fkn much... like I know I'm gonna love him at some point, there is no chance I wouldn't. sjm has a way with words but my god... right now... I HATE HIM SO FKN MUCH!!!

This character alone is the reason this fandom hate at least three female characters in this series: Mor, Gwyn, Elain

Mor is literally being hated for no reason. And it doesn't help the fact that she's also queer and a (SA) survivor from her abusive family. People say she's been leading Az for 5 century while idk how she could be anymore obvious about her choice on the matter. I mean if I had a little self-respect I wouldn't have chased a woman when it's clear she doesn't want to be chased and I think she did it in the best way to not hurt him and also keep things neutral and still be his friend but as we all know this man is a shadow daddy so he's the one being wronged y'know...

Gwyn being hated bc she's a barrier between two people of a non canon (I repeat NON CANON) ship and again she's a SA survivor and never been given a chance to choose for herself. She's being villainized to make some people feel better and hopeful that one day their ship will be canon and destroy the villain so they can make their way to each other (I'M HYSTERICALLY LAUGHING I CAN'T-) like if you talk about Gwyn alone to someone they would fall in love with her idk how they could put a villain arc in her story...

Elain again having no choice in becoming a high fae and the only character trait they made for her is in the circle of being a housewife for Azriel, if not that they completely forget her desire not to want to be a warrior or spy or anything that has to do with violence and make her a full spymaster (that actually doesn't make a single sense since he's so abundant to keep her safe all the time and not wanting to expose her to troves bc he thinks so little of her and not trusting her in handling these stuffs?) or the high lady of Prison... yeah she would thrive there absolutely!!! We don't know much about this character and still people make it like they do and put their ideas and fantasies in her while we've never been in her head once!!

As you can see why I hate him so much. (I know it's probably not much of his fault really but his stans and I really hate that about this fandom)

ps: I know there are other reasons to dislike Elain but honestly didn't we all hated Nesta before her book? I'm pretty sure sjm would make us love her INDIVIDUALLY and not bc her relationship with someone...

The Mor and Az situation is complicated and messy but at the end of the day, he has had 500 years to ask Mor to sit down and have a real conversation about whether she has interest in him.

Really, it's as easy as that.

It's never easy to want someone who doesn't seem to want you in return and maybe you give it some time to see if that changes. But no one gets to play the victim after 500 years of pining for someone and I'm not sure why the narrative is always "poor Az". Maybe he tried to confess his feelings after her assault but that's not an excuse for never trying again within the last 5 centuries. He's the one who wants to know so he's the one that needs to approach her, not vice versa.

And yeah, Gwyn has done nothing to warrant hatred from anyone. She doesn't have to be someone's favorite character but the agenda to turn her evil or be some cruel seductress trying to lure Az away from Elain is ridiculous. She doesn't even know Az likes Elain. She's never even MET Elain. It doesn't matter if E/riel is canon or not, if Gwyn was being flirtatious with Az, Az never felt it was inappropriate considering he didn't vocalize having feelings for someone else. Instead he raised his brows high in amusement. He didn't feel guilt over the thought of Gwyn's happiness sparking something in his chest. Why is blame being placed on Gwyn when she's completely clueless as to what Az does when he leaves the training ring?

And yes, Elain has a mate. Yes, Elain was about to kiss Az. But so what? Nesta all but declared her love for Cassian then turned around and slept with other males yet I have never seen anyone shame her for that. But Elain being ready to kiss Az when she has never made promises to Lucien makes her a terrible person? People really don't seem to grasp the fact that to the sisters, mate doesn't mean anything to them at the start of their journey's. They were HUMANS for 20 plus years. The mating bond is not sacred to them. If the mating bond is the equivalent to fae religion, then people are attacking Elain for not jumping right on board with fae religion when she was raised to believe in something else. She hasn't embraced being fae yet therefore she is not ready to deal with her mating bond. She just lost her fiance, give the girl some time to play the field before making another life long decision. And again, Lucien has never once said, "Elain, can we sit down and discuss our bond?" He keeps it surface level so she does too. Of course we know he'd like more than that but him desiring more and him actually approaching her with purpose (and not just tiptoeing around waiting for her to give him a sign) means he's being just as complacent.

AZ is the one who was raised to respect the mating bond yet he's the one who knew it was wrong to kiss Elain with Lucien in the house yet he didn't care. He's the one who is willing to burn bridges with an important ally with a female who he's never thought of beyond his sexual fantasies. He's the one who can't even admit to being completely over Mor.

The girls are so young compared to Az (Elain is 24ish and Gwyn is 28) but they are expected to behave impeccably while the 500 year old torturer gets free passes left and right. It makes no sense.

As far as your PS. I don't hate Elain at all. Sure she should have done more in the way of chores in the cabin at the start of the series but really, what has her big crime been since then? She was willing to risk her engagement for Feyre and allowed her to use their house in the human lands to meet with the queens. She's been kind to Feyre's new found family. She didn't blame Feyre for the fact that she was made. She helped Feyre by designing and maintaining her garden. She apologized in front of everyone for failing Feyre. She didn't blame Nesta for her fathers death. She wants to spend time with Feyre AND Nesta. Yes, she was disappointed to find Nesta wasn't getting better but only because Cassian told her he thought the training was helping. And no, she didn't understand what Nesta needed in order to heal but that's because Nesta refused to open up and pushed Elain away. It was easy for Nesta to sit beside Elain's bedside because all she had to do was read her book. Did Nesta EVER ask Elain for something which Elain refused to do? Did Nesta invite her out to the bar with her? Elain did reach out and Nesta, knowing it would hurt Elain and knowing that Elain was also struggling after the war and the death of their father told her to leave her alone.

I'm not going to blame Elain who is also dealing with trauma to not have the answers for Nesta's problems. It's not her job and she did make it known that she wanted to spend time with Nesta. Nesta rejected her offers and only showed up to get rent money for Feyre.

Really, it's funny to me how much hate the females of the series get. They are flawed but so are the males. They are not MORE flawed and actually, for how young they are and how recent (and major) their traumas are, I'd say they don't deserve the hatred coming their way.

[tomwambsmilk]

Succtwitter has the most interesting takes about Shiv. She's apparently the victim in her marriage bc she's a woman and Tom uses his privilege as a man over her. Now I HATE to victim blame but two of the most abusive things Tom does to Shiv is reactionary to Shiv's treatment of Tom. Shiv treating Tom as irrelevant (to his face) made him feel like in order to be remembered and important while he was in prison was to have a kid with her, and then he betrayed her for constantly leaving him out of the loop and making him feel as though his position in her life was being called into question. Both things are AWFUL and indefensible but they're also a hell of shiv's own making

Yeah, this is part of why I tend to avoid using the word 'abuse' when discussing Tom and Shiv's marriage. Largely because the rhetoric around the concept of abuse - and specifically around the idea of abusers as ontologically evil - means there's no room for nuance as soon as the term enters the discussion. And I also don't think that's a helpful or necessary lens through which to analyze what's happening in their relationship.

That being said, I do think one of the primary tragedies of Shiv as a character is the way the destruction of her marriage is a self-fulfilling prophecy. She's so afraid of betrayal and hurt as a consequence of intimacy that she holds Tom at an emotional distance (something I absolutely think was part of her motivations in wanting an open marriage). She doesn't feel safe in emotional intimacy, and the commitment involved in getting married has deepened her unease. But holding Tom at that distance is what drives him to eventually betray her, something I believe he absolutely would not have done in season 1, or even season 2. He tries to play both sides, sure, but when he absolutely cannot, he sides with Shiv - up until season 3. That's why "my therapist was wrong, and I was right" hits so hard; it's not actually that her therapist was wrong, but that she's manifested her own fears into existence, and because she's not able to see how her own actions played into that she's doomed to keep perpetuating that cycle in other aspects of her life. When people downplay that aspect and remove Shiv's agency in the relationship, I think they neuter her character a little, and they undercut some of the tragedy of the story. Part of the reason she's compelling is that, even though she absolutely is mistreated by the people around her, she isn't simply a victim all the time.

I also think Tom's season 3 desire (and pressure) for a kid is a lot more complicated than just Shiv's treatment of him. There's a lot to unpack there, and so many posts I see oversimplify some aspect of it, which is too bad bc I think, as a plot point, it's a pretty brilliant convergence of several different aspects of Tom's character, his ideals, the outside influences on him, and his relationship with Shiv, and as such is pretty revealing on a lot of levels. But that's for a whole separate post, I think!

Anyways. It's frustrating because there are ways in which Tom's misogyny (which I think is largely unconscious, and rooted in the general misogyny of the Waystar culture - but it's still misogyny) negatively impacts Shiv, and you can have that conversation while still acknowledging the rather significant role Shiv herself has played in the destruction of her marriage, and the (again, significant!) ways she's mistreated Tom. These are not two mutually exclusive concepts!! Their relationship is messy and nuanced!!

[solarapplejuice]

one of the things that i think a lot of people feel cheapens SU's already strained narrative actually also works in its favor from a different angle, one which i wish the show pushed more. the fact that gems are effectively immortal, and can't even die after being shattered or broken, is immediately understood as one of the many ways that the show lessens the harm of the diamonds by making their state sanctioned execution useless. unless they've disintegrated gems and flown their dust far apart into the vast reaches of space, the only gem in the narrative who is dead dead is Rose Quartz. and yeah, it's true, the story should be judged on this implication.

but hey! cant give the haters any inch so lets talk about a misconception, that SU is about forgiveness. i'm not sure if it's ever really been about that even once, instead it's always been *change.* hell there's a whole song about it! the fact is that in SU's world anyone can change, and you're not required to wait for anyone to do so, but everyone probably could do it! and this is super important, because understanding this means that the gems being immortal takes a different shape in the story, and probably lends more weight to the diamonds redemption than any amount of lessening the violence they've enacted. because gems can't really die, they have to carry the sins that they've done to each other forever. and as long as they continue to live together, that means that often victims and abusers will share the world together. there's really no point, then, for people like the diamonds to put their foot down and keep trying to rule as supreme dictators. running away is an option for either side (and should absolutely be valid for victims), but SU has shown time and time and again that if your problems involve hurting others, then you don't get to run away from them. therefore there's really no choice for the diamonds ahead of them except to do better, to atone for what they've done forever and be good to the people they've hurt. the tragedy of Rose Quartz is that she doesn't get to do that - she's dead, and so people like Spinel and Pearl and Steven have to live knowing the ways she's deeply hurt or helped them, the ways she's helped or hurt others, and come to their own complicated and likely never fully satisfying feelings about her. *we,* the audience, have to reconcile all of that and make our own conclusions based on our own histories as people, which is probably why her story is the best part of SU for me.

in any case, i think it's why watching the diamonds' messy attempts to be better in future is so unsettling. you really do get the sense of "are they doing this because they want to, or because steven is telling them to, have they grown past taking and receiving orders?" SU wants us to believe that on a long enough timescale they will learn, but how LONG is that going to take? could anything go wrong during that time, especially knowing that White was almost killed by her current gig of mind control-assisted introspective therapy? they always feel like they're walking on the thread between their old ways and being better, or as someone else put it, "barely hinged." and you are so right, i WOULD fucking sit down and watch 5 more seasons of that.

I’m well and settled on the opinion that Steven Universe had to seriously stack the deck in its own favor to prevent the narrative from ending with anyone getting guillotined. I mean, Steven conveniently having a foot in the door with the diamonds because he turned out to be related, sure, but it goes into the characterization and worldbuilding, too.

Rather than cackling dictators, first off, The Diamonds had to be emotionally-arrested overgrown children; the dynamic between them and Pink was always, with context, less of a parent-child thing and more like three twelve-year-olds lecturing an eight-year-old on adult responsibility, they’re fundamentally aping a notion of the right way to be and I think it’s a mistake to view them as fully-realized people at the point where Steven finds them. Gem society, too, is less of a society, with all its messy moving parts, and more of a sanitized dollhouse representation of a society that’s only just starting to morph into the real deal via the rebellion. There’s no genuinely complicated politics to untangle; just gems meaninglessly play-acting at politics. And, crucially, nobody is getting anything out of any of it- gems are a needless society, they expand endlessly because they…. don’t not do that, there’s no material incentive to behave the way they do, no economic reality Steven has to counter in order to make the horror stop. All he has to do is convince three emotional runts to stop being awful.

Now, where I differ in my thinking, I think, is that in contorting the worldbuilding to make sure that the diamond redemption wasn’t something patently insane, they really hit upon an incredibly compelling science-fiction set-up. Three Elder Gods playing “It’s A Good Life” with a tea-party sham of a civilization full of individuals who nonetheless feel real pain, Three Elder Gods who cause harm, and lots of it, but mainly through their lack of moral context and lack of understanding of what even constitutes harm, Three Elder Gods whom you, a puny human, actually have some pretty potent emotional leverage over but no way to overpower if it comes to a fight? A set-up where part of the horror is how easy it would be to pinpoint the source of the horror and make it stop? That’s fucking dynamite! I’d watch five whole seasons of just that! Hell, even in canon it doesn’t even stop- two years later and Steven is still kinda trying to deal with the fact that the Diamond’s good behavior is kinda-sorta dependent on his willingness to keep dealing with them and he has no real way to be sure any of it is sticking! There’s no actual end in sight! There’s no clean resolution! It’s messy and it’s harrowing and it’s specifically because culpability and morality and ethics and all of that is so goddamn sticky when you’re a consequentialist trying to play ball with super-advanced childlike Von Neuman Machines!

[showtoonzfan]

I don’t like Angel because he’s not funny, suave, sassy or smart like Viv wants him to be. He comes across as so try-hard funny to the point that it’s cringe. Him being a sexual abuse didn’t make me like him, I felt sympathetic of course, but it didn’t make me want to baby him or protect like some of the fans do with Angel. We have to wait and see how the show deals with serious topics and given helluva boss’s track record of tackling serious issues it’s can go both ways; being bastardized and treated as a joke or being taken seriously. Sexual abuse victims don’t have to sex-repulsed or have an aversion to touch, some people do become hyper sexual, but its an unhealthy coping mechanism, its not making le funny sex jokes/flirting 24/7, or just liking sex with hot people, it’s a compulsive disorder and it affects your day to day life and puts you in dangerous situations, whether it be self harming yourself or others. It fucks with you mentally and physically. It shouldnt be treated as joke or something to be used as defense against your favorite character if people don’t like him, than they don’t like him, don’t give him more trauma just to make people/guilt trip them into liking him.

I don’t hate Angel, he’s not even my least favorite character. I just want him to be cohesive and ironed out, because he’s so overdeveloped and just all over the place. He’s the famous sex worker in all of Hell working under a abusive overlord, and he’s wants to break free from that life or at least Valentino, but he’s addicted to drugs and has an explosive loose personality, he has little trust in people so pushes them away and hurts the people that care about him and he hides his true self, but he isn’t 100% sure he wants to get clean or believes in redemption and he wavers between staying in the spotlight getting the love and validation he never got when he was alive because he was rejected by his family for being gay. Oh btw angel was a mobster and a drag queen, and his whole family is in Hell and they’re in the mafia and hes got a twin sister that no one knows where she’s at, and he’s a drag queen and he’s gonna get a love interest in the show because why not. Plus whatever mental/sexual trauma he got from Valentino. This isn’t even him being written complex/nuanced, its a common mistake among young writers where they over complicate a story and characters and everything gets lost and messy. Not even Charlie and Alastor are this over complicated

These are my EXACT thoughts on him, I 100% agree. For starters yes, he’s definitely over-compensative and I hate it. He’s a sex worker, he’s a porn star, he’s a stripper, he’s a struggling addict, like Jesus Viv pick ONE. It’s all too overwhelming and it certainly doesn’t help that he’s way more developed than the fucking main character (and the show isn’t even out yet). There’s a difference between making your characters fleshed out and then there’s adding a shitload of things to them without learning how to balance it all. Anyways yes, this is one of the reasons why I don’t necessarily think Angel is good representation, not just for gay people, but for sexually abused victims as well. Of course we’ll have to wait until the show comes out, but like you said, it doesn’t help that he’s a character that’s overly flirty and makes unfunny sex jokes 24/7. His character is treated as a joke in the pilot, just something so Viv and her friends can laugh their immature asses off and go “LOL HE’S GAY”, and like others have said, that’s a “yikes” when you as the writer ALSO tries to establish that he constantly needs to use his body to maintain his position, a position he’s shown to struggle with. Yes, hyper sexuality is a thing, not everyone responds to sexual abuse trauma the same, some are repulsed, others aren’t, and don’t get me wrong, I’m all for exploring these themes, it’s just that the problem with Angel Dust is that even if he IS a person who is hyper sexual and uses his flirty behavior as a coping mechanism, it’s not treated seriously. Whenever he flirted in the pilot and acted overly sexual in the comic, it was all treated as a joke, it was simply done because we all know Angel is the eye candy for the fans of the show, so Viv can go “Lol he’s so hot, hot gay spider boi uwu”. And like you said, it also doesn’t help that Viv creates Val just so we can feel bad for him. I don’t know how y’all feel about Angel, but I personally don’t like him. He’s not funny, he’s an unlikable asshole and showing me that he’s a “sad uwu baby” isn’t going to get my sympathy. Don’t get me wrong, you feel bad for his SITUATION that he’s in, but at the end of the day I don’t care if bad stuff happens to him, he’s still a horrible person who’s in hell for a reason, and I wish Viv would stop treating him like a joke and babying him all the same time. Stop making him out to be a sex symbol for fans and start treating his character like the complex person Viv claims he is, without fucking around and making unfunny sex jokes. It’s just cringe and it ruins the serious side to him.

Again, we’re going to have to wait till the actual show comes out, but while we’re here I’m certainly not looking forward to his backstory or family. Don’t get me wrong, the concept of a gay man in the mafia from the 40’s is interesting as hell, but seeing how VIV is the one writing this, we all know it’s just going to be more sad uwu stuff to make us sympathize with him being from a disapproving society. I also have the theory that his sister Molly is in heaven, (since when asked during a livestream, Viv was vague but kept saying the words “she’s not in hell”) so yeah that’ll probably be even more sympathy manipulation to his character. I can’t….he’s just too over compensated as well as not good gay rep, and Viv once again, cannot handle serious subject matter so I’m terrified on what will happen during Hazbin and how she deals with all the abuse and trauma this character goes through. We’ll see, but I smell a bomb coming.

[qqueenofhades]

Hi. I’m curious. What did you mean by “women who read fiction might get Bad Ideas!!!” has just reached its latest and stupidest form via tumblr purity culture.? I haven’t seen any of this but I’m new to tumblr.

Oh man. You really want to get me into trouble on, like, my first day back, don’t you?

Pretty much all of this has been explained elsewhere by people much smarter than me, so this isn’t necessarily going to say anything new, but I’ll do my best to synthesize and summarize it. As ever, it comes with the caveat that it is my personal interpretation, and is not intended as the be-all, end-all. You’ll definitely run across it if you spend any time on Tumblr (or social media in general, including Twitter, and any other fandom-related spaces). This will get long.

In short: in the nineteenth century, when Gothic/romantic literature became popular and women were increasingly able to read these kinds of novels for fun, there was an attendant moral panic over whether they, with their weak female brains, would be able to distinguish fiction from reality, and that they might start making immoral or inappropriate choices in their real life as a result. Obviously, there was a huge sexist and misogynistic component to this, and it would be nice to write it off entirely as just hysterical Victorian pearl-clutching, but that feeds into the “lol people in the past were all much stupider than we are today” kind of historical fallacy that I often and vigorously shut down. (Honestly, I’m not sure how anyone can ever write the “omg medieval people believed such weird things about medicine!” nonsense again after what we’ve gone through with COVID, but that is a whole other rant.) The thinking ran that women shouldn’t read novels for fear of corrupting their impressionable brains, or if they had to read novels at all, they should only be the Right Ones: i.e., those that came with a side of heavy-handed and explicit moralizing so that they wouldn’t be tempted to transgress. Of course, books trying to hammer their readers over the head with their Moral Point aren’t often much fun to read, and that’s not the point of fiction anyway. Or at least, it shouldn’t be.

Fast-forward to today, and the entire generation of young, otherwise well-meaning people who have come to believe that being a moral person involves only consuming the “right” kind of fictional content, and being outrageously mean to strangers on the internet who do not agree with that choice. There are a lot of factors contributing to this. First, the advent of social media and being subject to the judgment of people across the world at all times has made it imperative that you demonstrate the “right” opinions to fit in with your peer-group, and on fandom websites, that often falls into a twisted, hyper-critical, so-called “progressivism” that diligently knows all the social justice buzzwords, but has trouble applying them in nuance, context, and complicated real life. To some extent, this obviously is not a bad thing. People need to be critical of the media they engage with, to know what narratives the creator(s) are promoting, the tropes they are using, the conclusions that they are supporting, and to be able to recognize and push back against genuinely harmful content when it is produced – and this distinction is critical – by professional mainstream creators. Amateur, individual fan content is another kettle of fish. There is a difference between critiquing a professional creator (though social media has also made it incredibly easy to atrociously abuse them) and attacking your fellow fan and peer, who is on the exact same footing as you as a consumer of that content.

Obviously, again, this doesn’t mean that you can’t call out people who are engaging in actually toxic or abusive behavior, fans or otherwise. But certain segments of Tumblr culture have drained both those words (along with “gaslighting”) of almost all critical meaning, until they’re applied indiscriminately to “any fictional content that I don’t like, don’t agree with, or which doesn’t seem to model healthy behavior in real life” and “anyone who likes or engages with this content.” Somewhere along the line, a reactionary mindset has been formed in which the only fictional narratives or relationships are those which would be “acceptable” in real life, to which I say…. what? If I only wanted real life, I would watch the news and only read non-fiction. Once again, the underlying fear, even if it’s framed in different terms, is that the people (often women) enjoying this content can’t be trusted to tell the difference between fiction and reality, and if they like “problematic” fictional content, they will proceed to seek it out in their real life and personal relationships. And this is just… not true.

As I said above, critical media studies and thoughtful consumption of entertainment are both great things! There have been some great metas written on, say, the Marvel Cinematic Universe and how it is increasingly relying on villains who have outwardly admirable motives (see: the Flag Smashers in The Falcon and the Winter Soldier) who are then stigmatized by their anti-social, violent behavior and attacks on innocent people, which is bad even as the heroes also rely on violence to achieve their ends. This is a clever way to acknowledge social anxieties – to say that people who identify with the Flag Smashers are right, to an extent, but then the instant they cross the line into violence, they’re upsetting the status quo and need to be put down by the heroes. I watched TFATWS and obviously enjoyed it. I have gone on a Marvel re-watching binge recently as well. I like the MCU! I like the characters and the madcap sci-fi adventures! But I can also recognize it as a flawed piece of media that I don’t have to accept whole-cloth, and to be able to criticize some of the ancillary messages that come with it. It doesn’t have to be black and white.

When it comes to shipping, moreover, the toxic culture of “my ship is better than your ship because it’s Better in Real Life” ™ is both well-known and in my opinion, exhausting and pointless. As also noted, the whole point of fiction is that it allows us to create and experience realities that we don’t always want in real life. I certainly enjoy plenty of things in fiction that I would definitely not want in reality: apocalyptic space operas, violent adventures, and yes, garbage men. A large number of my ships over the years have been labeled “unhealthy” for one reason or another, presumably because they don’t adhere to the stereotype of the coffee-shop AU where there’s no tension and nobody ever makes mistakes or is allowed to have serious flaws. And I’m not even bagging on coffee-shop AUs! Some people want to remove characters from a violent situation and give them that fluff and release from the nonstop trauma that TV writers merrily inflict on them without ever thinking about the consequences. Fanfiction often focuses on the psychology and healing of characters who have been through too much, and since that’s something we can all relate to right now, it’s a very powerful exercise. As a transformative and interpretive tool, fanfic is pretty awesome.

The problem, again, comes when people think that fic/fandom can only be used in this way, and that going the other direction, and exploring darker or complicated or messy dynamics and relationships, is morally bad. As has been said before: shipping is not activism. You don’t get brownie points for only having “healthy” ships (and just my personal opinion as a queer person, these often tend to be heterosexual white ships engaging in notably heteronormative behavior) and only supporting behavior in fiction that you think is acceptable in real life. As we’ve said, there is a systematic problem in identifying what that is. Ironically, for people worried about Women Getting Ideas by confusing fiction and reality, they’re doing the same thing, and treating fiction like reality. Fiction is fiction. Nobody actually dies. Nobody actually gets hurt. These people are not real. We need to normalize the idea of characters as figments of a creator’s imagination, not actual people with their own agency. They exist as they are written, and by the choice of people whose motives can be scrutinized and questioned, but they themselves are not real. Nor do characters reflect the author’s personal views. Period.

This feeds into the fact that the internet, and fandom culture, is not intended as a “safe space” in the sense that no questionable or triggering content can ever be posted. Archive of Our Own, with its reams of scrupulous tagging and requests for you to explicitly click and confirm that you are of age to see M or E-rated content, is a constant target of the purity cultists for hosting fictional material that they see as “immoral.” But it repeatedly, unmistakably, directly asks you for your consent to see this material, and if you then act unfairly victimized, well… that’s on you. You agreed to look at this, and there are very few cases where you didn’t know what it entailed. Fandom involves adults creating contents for adults, and while teenagers and younger people can and do participate, they need to understand this fact, rather than expecting everything to be a PG Disney movie.

When I do write my “dark” ships with garbage men, moreover, they always involve a lot of the man being an idiot, being bluntly called out for an idiot, and learning healthier patterns of behavior, which is one of the fundamental patterns of romance novels. But they also involve an element of the woman realizing that societal standards are, in fact, bullshit, and she can go feral every so often, as a treat. But even if I wrote them another way, that would still be okay! There are plenty of ships and dynamics that I don’t care for and don’t express in my fic and fandom writing, but that doesn’t mean I seek out the people who do like them and reprimand them for it. I know plenty of people who use fiction, including dark fiction, in a cathartic way to process real-life trauma, and that’s exactly the role – one of them, at least – that fiction needs to be able to fulfill. It would be terribly boring and limited if we were only ever allowed to write about Real Life and nothing else. It needs to be complicated, dark, escapist, unreal, twisted, and whatever else. This means absolutely zilch about what the consumers of this fiction believe, act, or do in their real lives.

Once more, I do note the misogyny underlying this. Nobody, after all, seems to care what kind of books or fictional narratives men read, and there’s no reflection on whether this is teaching them unhealthy patterns of behavior, or whether it predicts how they’ll act in real life. (There was some of that with the “do video games cause mass shootings?”, but it was a straw man to distract from the actual issues of toxic masculinity and gun culture.) Certain kinds of fiction, especially historical fiction, romance novels, and fanfic, are intensely gendered and viewed as being “women’s fiction” and therefore hyper-criticized, while nobody’s asking if all the macho-man potboiler military-intrigue tough-guy stereotypical “men’s fiction” is teaching them bad things. So the panic about whether your average woman on the internet is reading dark fanfic with an Unhealthy Ship (zomgz) is, in my opinion, misguided at best, and actively destructive at worst.

[daisylore-au]

BREAK EVENT - 4

sorry this one took a little longer !!! in a majority vote 19 compared to 2 and 6, number three one: interesting option to go for !!! thanks to jwt anon, who guessed the additional information - how did dream know he was the monster? - you have an extra option at the end of this one too !! as always, you’re not obliged to pick it, but it’s open to be picked if you wanna !!!

have fun - this one is pretty sad, so i’m gonna add trigger warnings just in case: brief + implied suicidal thoughts (past), death mentions, trauma, torture + exile mentions

He has to ask. As much as he’s sure it’s not going to end well for their talk, he’s curious, and curiosity certainly hadn’t killed any cats (Tommy couldn’t say the same), but curiosity might kill him. Dream’s words play on loop at the back of his mind, and if he doesn’t ask, he’ll never know.

Isn’t this about getting information anyway?

“Dream,” Tommy begins, unsure as soon as the words come out of his mouth, “you said you think of me in a good way.”

He stops, turning to face the other with a serious look on his face.

“Why?”

And a thousand potential reasons flood his mind. Maybe Dream remembers the very early days of the SMP, the good old days when they’d been friends, when Tommy had looked up to him with stars in his eyes and Dream had taught him so much of what he’d known. Or maybe he’s thinking of exile, maybe he’s thinking of prison, when he’d tormented Tommy, when Tommy had tormented him - maybe he’s fucked up enough to consider that a good thing, maybe he hadn’t been lying all those years ago when he’d claimed exile had been “fun” for him. Tommy had always assumed he’d been mocking, cruel, but hey, maybe he hadn’t been. Maybe he’d been being serious. Maybe-

Dream looks at him like he’s stupid. “Well,” he says, as if it’s obvious, “you killed the Monster, right?”

Tommy feels very, very cold.

“You slayed the Monster, you saved the SMP,” Dream continues on, oblivious to Tommy’s ashen face, “Twice, actually, but once from the Monster! From... me. And that’s a good thing! Because if you hadn’t, I would’ve hurt more people and more things. And...”

A shadow of the past crosses Dream’s face in shade and darkness, a brief cluster of something black and ancient settling over him, before he shakes it off in an instant, tucking his hands carefully into his pockets before pulling them out again, cradling three flowers in his hands.

Tommy’s stomach turns. Purple hyacinths. Dream looks like he’s been holding onto them for a while. 

“And I don’t want to hurt anybody.” Dream nods, keeping his eyes fixed on the flower. “I didn’t wanna hurt anyone ever. Well... I think I did, at one point. But- at the beginning. At the end. I didn’t wanna hurt anybody then.”

“You...” Tommy’s voice comes out croaky. “You think me killing you was a good thing?”

Dream’s eyes flicker to his, something wise behind them for a split second. “I think,” he says softly, “that you did what was best. And I’m happy you killed me.”

It’s hard to breathe for a minute. Tommy can only stare, silent, speechless, at the other, because fucking hell, what do you even say in that situation? You didn’t get taught how to talk to your killer and abuser turned murder and abuse victim in school, not that he’d fucking went to school in the first place, but even if he had, he’s certain it wouldn’t have helped. He tries to picture himself being honest for a second, tries to picture some sort of apology or potential conversation - ‘sorry I killed you! Know you were going through a rough patch considering you’d been tortured, but in my defense I thought you were going to hurt me and you were about to kill my best friend who had also gone off his rocker, so I didn’t really have a choice! Let me make it up to you.’ - it’s a weak fucking excuse.

This is so difficult. 

“I’m not,” he replies at last, watching Dream’s eyes widen in surprise, “glad I killed you, I mean. I wish to fucking Prime I hadn’t needed to.”

"You killed the Monster.”

“I killed you,” Tommy says firmly, “and you’re a fucking dickhead, but you’re- I don’t know, towards the end, you weren’t. Towards the end, you were...”

“Scared,” Dream murmurs. He’s not looking at Tommy anymore. His eyes are fixed back on the flower, distant, sorrowful looking. “I think I remember being scared.”

Tommy thinks of the wide eyed desperate terror Dream had fought with, remembers his laugh that had sounded more like a sob, remembers how messy the whole battle had been. “Yeah.” He swallows. “You were scared.”

And what is there to say after that? He’s scared to push too far, scared that Dream will snap, scared that he will snap, scared that Dream won’t remember and scared that he will. Everything is so fucking complicated when it comes to Dream and the past - maybe that’s why he’s here. Maybe he wants to make things more simple. Exhaling heavily, Tommy swipes a hand over his face, annoyed at the tears building up in the back of his throat. 

“Can I ask you something?” He asks, and Dream, looking unsure, nods.

“Sure. Can I ask you something after?”

Tommy considers saying no. “Depends,” he says, just to be difficult, and is rewarded with a faint smile, “I wanted to know....”

He pauses, struggling to figure out how to word this properly. There really is no polite way of asking these questions, even if he’d cared - not that he did, because politeness and TommyInnit don’t exactly go hand-in-hand - but it still feels awkward to say.

------------------------------------

finally time to vote again !! sorry this one took a few hours, the timings with the last one got all fucked up :’) you have 15 minutes (22:30PM BST) to choose!!

1. WHAT DO YOU REMEMBER OF BEFORE YOU DIED?

2. WHAT DO YOU REMEMBER OF AFTER YOU DIED?

[UNLOCKED] 3. HOW DID YOU KNOW YOU WERE THE MONSTER?

[hello-nichya-here]

Why does comics!Zuko keep trying to show Azula sympathy/care when Azula hasn't really reciprocated and he himself have taken actions that indicate that he still hates Azula for abusing him, or at least partake in Ozai's abuse of him, thinks Azula's birth has made his life harder, and thinks of her a ghost of the past? In light of Iroh's "She's crazy and needs to go down" line, wouldn't it be better for everyone if Zuko cut Azula out of his life, or at least until she starts trying to act better?

Disclaimer: Comics!Zuko is an insult to the character because his “kindness” to Azula involved abandoning her in a institution that neglected and abused her, and didn’t even think about her until he needed her help. I refuse to accept that Zuko, after all the growth he went through, would accept such a place even existing in his nation, let alone send his sister there, regardless of whether he still had any love for Azula. But I’m going to pretend the comics didn’t botch him (which meant that Azula had every reason to mistrust his “kindness” considering it brought her nothing but misery) so I can clarify some important things.

“Why does he show her sympathy/care when she doesn’t reciprocate it?” Emotions aren’t rational. You don’t need someone to show you sympathy and care to feel that way about them.

“Why does he show her sympathy if it’s shown that he still resents/hate her on some level?” Feelings are complicated, messy and often contradictory, especially for someone as young and traumatized as Zuko (seriously, get that boy some therapy). He and Azula were taught to see each other as enemies, and have acted as such for a long time. Her breakdown after their Agni Kai humanized her in his eyes again and made him want to give her the same chances he was given, but that doesn’t mean all that baggage would suddenly disappear. It isn’t weird for him to care about her, but still have negative feelings towards her (Important: resenting or even hating her doesn’t mean he would be okay with her being a victim of any kind of abuse, and he sure as fuck wouldn’t be the one responsible for her suffering said abuse in the first place).

“She's crazy and needs to go down" That line is a “funny” (in 2005 logic) joke Iroh made about the character who could have killed him. It also gets a gross, dangerous conotation once the finale happens and Azula has a mental breakdown - the sadly still common idea that the disabled and mentally ill are fundamentally broken and need to be locked away or killed. It could have been seen as a moment that aged badly in a mostly great show, and most people would see it as a unfortunate case of the writers not thinking of the implications of saying something like that about a character that was then shown to be mentally ill. Unfortunately, it was said by Iroh, the character fans refuse to admit is also flawed and can be unfair to others - especially to Azula. So, they act like that bullshit is another case of “Wise words from uncle Iroh” instead of seeing it for what it is: a bad joke/Iroh pulling a Zuko and saying something horrible when he is angry. Don’t repeat that kind of ableist shit like it’s some kind of gospel truth.

“Wouldn't it be better for everyone if Zuko cut Azula out of his life?“ There are only two people being affected by Zuko still having contact with Azula: Zuko and Azula themselves. She has no political power anymore, she can’t fight the whole world by herself (and trying to do so could lead to Aang taking away her bending), and she is in a fragile mental state, meaning she is completely dependent on Zuko since he is the family member taking care of her. She isn’t a treat to anyone around her anymore, so their opinion on the matter doesn’t mean shit. Which leads us to:

“Wouldn’t it be better for Zuko if he cut her out of his life?” In my interpretation of Zuko, no. He thought that he had no choice but to his sister enemy forever, or until one of them died (possibly by the other’s hand), but the Agni Kai changed everything for him. On that moment, he saw that this rivalry Ozai forced upon them hurt her just as badly as it hurt him. He saw how Azula destroyed herself to gain Ozai’s approval, and he saw himself in her, because that would have also been his fate if he had not been banished and found people who cared for him and taught him to be better. He loved Azula when they were little, and wishes things had been different. And now he knows that things can still be salvaged between them. He made horrible mistakes too, but he managed to turn things around, so it makes sense that he would want to give Azula as many chances as she needed to become a better person - just like Iroh did to him. Giving up on his “evil” sister, would be giving up on the family they once were, and on the family that he now knows for a fact that they could still be.

“Would this radical decision from Zuko “teach her a lesson” and make her change for the better?” OF COURSE NOT! Why would it? Not only did every adult in Azula’s life fail to protect and guide her, the one defense mechanism she was taught by Ozai was to always find a way to be above everyone else, which meant she couldn’t truly connect with her friends and her brother. Azula ended up becoming such a cold and even cruel character because all she ever knew was isolation. Zuko turning his back on her would just confirm her fears that is fundamentally broken and can never change, meaning she wouldn’t even try because what would be the point? Zuko changed because he always Iroh by his side, even after his betrayal - the most he ever did was give him the cold shoulder for a few episodes, then he went right back to helping him, going as far as to tell him about Sozin and Roku. No one can change if they don’t have someone to help them see what they did wrong, why it was wrong, how to do better, and to support them, even on their bad days and relapses. Especially on their bad days and relapses. Zuko knows that better than anyone, so once he decided he wanted to help Azula, he would keep on showing her that he believed in her, even when he got frustrated, sad or angry.

“Until she starts trying to act better” I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming you mean that she should act like the best version of herself while still being a complex, flawed human being, like Zuko did, instead of becoming a hollow, empty shell (like Zuko was trying to be in his false redemption in Ba Sing Se, where he went from trying to be whatever Ozai expected of him to trying to be whatever Iroh expected of him, which wasn’t healthy at all). Should Azula try to be better? Obviously, but remember: she is a literal child-soldier who was taught that she doesn’t have to be kind or even see other’s as humans at all. “But so was Zuko!” some people will say, completely forgeting that Zuko spent three years away from Ozai, getting advice from Iroh, and he still was a complete disaster of a person until the second half of book three. Zuko spent 5/6 of the show failing to be better, yet the fandom as a whole loves him. Why is Azula expected to just magically heal when Zuko spent literal years refusing to cooperate? Why does the same fandom that sees Iroh’s attempts to save his nephew from himself as something noble, see Zuko’s attempt to do the same for his 14 year old sister as completely incomprehensible?

[comfy-whumpee]

Whumping Safely 101

Many people in this community have mental health problems, face various types of discrimination, and have complicated relationships with some parts or types of whump. In particular, I aim this at people who care about the experience of survivors and others with triggers – partially because I am an abuse survivor who often flirts with triggering content as part of my love of whump.

Keeping your blog safe is difficult, takes effort, and is never a perfect process. But as the community grows and grows, it’s really important that we hold ourselves to a high standard. I would argue that this is a responsibility of all content creators, but especially those of us in the messy playground of whump.

I’ve got three sections in here: content warnings, writing with care, and community interaction. I’ve tried to make it navigable. It’s about 1.8k words. Shorter than a lot of drabbles! I welcome good-faith criticism on this topic and further questions on my own views.

Content Warnings

The biggest responsibility, in my opinion, is empowering your reader to make their own decision on whether they want to expose themselves to your writing. This also happens to be by far the easiest way to help people whump safely.

What to warn

This is a big and ever-changing topic. Some things you should warn for as a rule of thumb are anything NSFW, pet whump and box boy whump, drugs and alcohol, medical and hospital content, graphic gore, intimate partner violence, and animal harm. It can be tricky to draw the line of what counts – what needs a warning? If you’re in doubt, just warn it anyway. It doesn’t hurt.

If someone requests a trigger be warned for, even if it’s something that feels obscure or tame, show compassion and agree to the request. This is someone who cares enough about being able to read your writing that they wrote in! They want to be able to read it and enjoy it. You’re being complimented.

Otherwise, look at what other blogs tag for. You’ll see some variation in styles and levels of detail, but it’s a good way to gauge what people think is warn-worthy, when we’re often writing stuff that would already be R-rated in mainstream media.

Read Mores

The easiest way to make sure people don’t see your triggering content is to use a cut. Tumblr is not a very functional website and likes to delete cuts, but a cursory check of your posted content will usually tell you whether it’s worked. With asks, cuts are very spotty, so don’t be afraid to post an ask response separately with a screengrab of the original question. People often then respond to the ask itself with a link to the post, especially if it’s a whole drabble. Tumblr is weird and bad so just do your best.

Content notices

I.e., a quick summary before the drabble, usually in bold, to state what will be coming. I like to distinguish between using content notes (CN) and trigger warnings (TW) to indicate severity. Others might use the old phrase ‘dead dove do not eat’ to indicate this is a heavy piece, and often you will see qualifiers like ‘intense’, ‘mild’, ‘mention’, ‘referenced’ (i.e. it is discussed but not actively happening), and ‘implied’ (as the opposite of ‘explicit’). I’ve also seen a couple of people use ‘vibes’, which is a really nice way of demonstrating that it’s there, but not the focus. A quick paragraph like this, or just a line, lets people make a quick risk assessment on their reading.

This is also important if you’re sending in asks or requests to people. If you want to ask about something triggering, send an inquiry first about whether the blog is okay to hear it.

Tagging

Tagging is a chore, but it’s your primary way of warning people about your content. The main benefit of tagging is that you can be as detailed as you want, because can be tagging for content in general, not just triggers.

In a best case scenario, you’d tag the kind of whump you’re doing, tag triggers, tag characters, and even your ‘verses, because tagging is your index for your blog. If you tag reliably, you help your future self and your readers find stuff, and you also make your blog really dang safe. People who have unusual triggers can blacklist tags, and will pick up on your content tags to help them.

Don’t just tag your own writing. Tag your reblogs, tag your prompts, tag your asks. Yes, edit your asks to add the tags. Tag your images and gifs. Tag your images as images and your gifs as gifs.

If you aren’t up for detailed tagging for whatever reason, just tag for triggering content, and add stuff to that list if you’re asked to. My usual technique is to make a mental note of tags while I’m formatting and editing before posting.

Be aware that your first five tags will be used in search results. If you’re using tags that are associated with kink too, such as ‘shibari’, you might want to rethink your tag order if you don’t want interaction from those blogs. Also think about what tags might come up in non-whump contexts, such as ‘collar’ or ‘PTSD’. Some tactics for getting around this I’ve seen are adding ‘whump’ after the content or writing the tags in past tense (i.e., ‘collared’).

It is also a good idea to watch out for when you might be reblogging something whumpy that is intended as kink / porn / fetish, especially in images. Tagging these as spicy / nsfw / kink is a sensible move.

Writing with Care

Okay, now for the harder stuff.

I mean here to lay out some guidelines for how to write in a way that helps your reader build good faith. This is a much more nuanced topic, and it’s different for everyone. There will always be differing opinions on what should and shouldn’t be written about, what a good depiction of a sensitive topic is, and how to discuss that topic. I tried to strip this back into absolute basics that I hope we can all agree on.

Maybe your whump involves abuse. Maybe it’s gaslighting. Maybe it’s severe mental health problems, or addiction, or slavery, or you write about or analogise real-world issues. Whump deals with the dark stuff, and that’s a big part of its appeal. But don’t ever forget you’re writing the dark stuff.

(Try to) Know what you’re doing

Some of us play fast and loose with plots, medical accuracy, worldbuilding, and other things that get in the way of the pain we crave. This is all well and good, but when we start using whump that speaks true to people’s lived experiences, we shouldn’t be careless with it. I’m particularly talking about things that get represented poorly in mainstream media, such as abusive relationships, issues around marginalisation, mental illness and disability.

Be critical of media that you’ve consumed. Think about how its depicted things that you want to depict in turn. Look for opinions on fictional representations of those issues. Be aware that you might be more ignorant of things than you realise.

Look at how others are writing these issues, particularly if they’re writing from a perspective different to yours. If you haven’t personally experienced what you’re writing about, e.g., if you don’t have PTSD and you want to depict a character who does, seek out stuff written from or with experience. Listen to the experts.

If you’re looking for stuff about representation specifically, I recommend this collection of posts about ‘Braving Diversity’ cultivated by Writing With Colour, who are in themselves a fantastic resource for this topic, and have recommendations for other blogs that deal with intersecting issues.

Listen to others

Missteps are inevitable. Nobody is perfect. If constructive criticism is offered, that’s also a compliment to your writing. Someone read your work and thought about it, and thought you’d care about improving it. They’re offering themselves as a resource for helping you see your work in a new light.

Criticism is hard and sometimes hurtful, but even if we don’t think it’s accurate, there’s often a grain of truth in it. If someone tells you that your writing is harmful, think about why they’ve said that, not whether or not they’re correct. This is an opinion! Opinions are subjective! But what drove someone to send that in?

You don’t have to respond to all your criticism and definitely don’t respond straight away. Being respectful to those who are trying to help you means taking the time to consider it properly. Sometimes, they don’t need a response. Others, you might want to learn more about what they think before deciding. You might have already discussed the topic, in which case, you might just want to reblog your previous posts.

If it’s sent in bad faith or is outright hateful, you’re well within your rights to just delete it and move on. You might get the same criticism over and over again, and that’s exhausting, and you don’t have to retrace your steps for everyone.

But if it’s new, even if it puts your hackles up, you can always stop and wonder why someone felt that strongly about your work.

Take a step back

One of my better-known characters is a pet whumper who conditioned his victim to adore and depend on him. It’s not always easy to represent how deeply messed up that is within the text – though I think that’s part of the challenge – but in meta-commentary, I am always describing him as a creeptastic bastard lacking compassion and self-reflection. I hope to always give the reader the confidence that I know just how wrong it is.

This is a really simple thing you can do just to give readers good faith in you. Show that you know what you’re writing is dark and messed up. Show your understanding for the issues you’re handling and that they’re complicated. It might seem self-evident, but when you’re writing the really dark stuff, or unhealthy relationships, or institutionalised whump, you can inadvertently create the impression that you just think it’s fun. The fact that it’s fiction does not automatically absolve you. Show that you care about doing it right.

Community Interaction

I’m going to keep this one short and sweet because I will almost entirely be preaching to the choir here.

Be polite to others. Imagine saying what you’re saying to their face.

Don’t send anon hate. Just don’t. If you can send criticism off anon, do so.

Nobody is obligated to interact with you.

Nobody is obligated to monitor their own reader base.

If someone says do not interact, do not interact.

If someone says do not interact, why they’ve said that is none of your business.

You don’t need to spread the word about someone’s bad politics.

Ask yourself if your input is needed, or if what you’ve said has already been said.

You don’t have to take a side.

Take care of yourself. Take breaks. Remind yourself that whump is a small part of the world.

That’s all from me, folks. Stay safe.

[sepublic]

Amity’s Guilt is Complicated

           I feel like another tragedy to the revelations of Understanding Willow is that… Had it been revealed that it WAS Amity’s decision to reject Willow as initially believed, that’d have made things a lot simpler. At that point, the scenario is clear-cut and dry; Amity did a bad thing, she should apologize, recognize that what she did was incorrect, etc. Willow’s anger at Amity and betrayal would be far less tragic, because Amity DID bring this upon herself, admittedly- Even if she has changed for the better.

           …But it’s not that easy. It’s not as easy as ‘Amity did wrong and Willow is right to be angry’, even if that isn’t incorrect, either. But there’s a lot more nuance to the situation; Specifically in not just Odalia and Alador threatening Amity… But them threatening Willow as well. And then the situation and the anger becomes a lot more complicated, because- Amity wasn’t acting selfishly, not completely. She arguably didn’t have much of, if ANY, choice in what to do- That her rejection of Willow was the only thing Amity could’ve done, and/or it was the BEST decision in that scenario… So surely she can’t be blamed, it’s okay right?

           The thing is, it’s not. Even if you went with the idea that Amity did the best thing in that scenario, whether or not you believe that this was Amity’s only choice- She still genuinely hurt and traumatized Willow. Like, regardless of the discussion of how Amity should’ve defended Willow from Boscha and the others more, and not participated in the bullying herself (and that segues into another speculation about how Amity may not have even been malicious in that scenario), Willow has every right to be angry at Amity. Amity had her ostracized, Amity betrayed her… And even if Amity WAS forced to do it, even if there was arguably no other choice to make, even if Willow would’ve done the same, had their positions been reversed…

           Amity still traumatized her best friend. And Willow can’t ignore that, and it’s harder for her to just be angry at Amity, because with the original explanation, she knows all of her anger is justified, there’s nothing to sweat about. But now, the truth makes it more complicated; That Amity was also acting in Willow’s best interest, as much as she could’ve. Amity herself is ALSO a victim, but then so is Willow, and it’s a lethal cycle of abuse. Suddenly, the conflict is not as simple as ‘Amity apologizes and changes her behavior’, because now Odalia and Alador come into the stage to complicate things, to influence interactions as their own players. Amity and Willow’s friendship isn’t exactly confined/isolated any longer, they now have to consider Amity’s parents and address that.

           It could’ve been the end of the problems, had it been just Amity who rejected Willow. But because we know of her parents and what they did… The resolution and reveal takes on a bittersweet twist, because we know that things are worse, that Amity is still actively suffering, and has been for all of her life. We’ve just discovered a new problem on our hands, and the issue has expanded to an almost systemic range; As now Luz has to tackle the very environment that made Amity the way she was. And said ‘environment’ is not passive, but a very active duo of people who are aggressive about what they want, and straight-up dangerous.

           And likewise- Can Willow continue to be angry at Amity? Can she allow herself to, or does her righteous rage feel invalidated? Even if Willow were to redirect her anger at Odalia and Alador, again- Amity still went through with it. It’d be so much easier if Amity had agency in her rejection, but she didn’t, and now Willow has to figure out whether or not she can forgive Amity because of this, in addition to her changed behavior; And whether or not she needs to forgive Amity in order to reconnect. Because Amity’s rejection was no doubt one of the most definitive turning points in Willow’s life, and she clearly misses those innocent times they had together.

           It’d be easy to just go back to that, because Amity didn’t REALLY mean it, she was forced to… But Willow can’t forget what happened. And even if she can’t fault Amity for what she did, Willow is still justified in not wanting to reconnect- That she’s no longer as mad, but they still can’t be friends because damage HAD been dealt, regardless of the reason. Because there’s a difference between not blaming Amity for what she did, and deciding to go back to being friends- They are not mutually inclusive.

          It’s a messy dilemma, and in some ways it makes it easier to forgive- But in other ways, it makes past resentment and justified feelings of negativity a lot harder to bear, because now Willow is doubting herself and if her emotions are okay. If she’s valid in still not quite being ready to forgive Amity, for still feeling angry with Amity about what happened in the past, even with new context. And it just makes Willow question if by forgiving, she’s being too weak and allowing others to step over her; Or by still maintaining her anger, Willow is being too harsh and bitter.

           Willow at least understands, a lot more- But can she forgive? And it just plays into her explaining to Amity that it’s a start; That even if things are no longer adversarial between them, they still have yet to genuinely interact with one another on their own, of their own volitions, and not over their shared friend Luz. Willow might’ve accepted that her friendship with Amity was irreparable if she knew that it was Amity’s fault; But with the truth of Odalia and Alador, it’s a lot harder to make that kind of condemnation, and a lot more frustrating because the situation is no longer black-and-white, and thus making the decision of forgiveness a lot more clear-cut and dry, because Willow understands exactly how she feels about this or that.

           Maybe that’s part of the reason why Amity never explained to Willow, why they couldn’t be friends at first; Aside from the issue of not wanting to admit that her parents are abusive to someone else (especially given Odalia and Alador’s emphasis on making the Blight family look good), maybe Amity thought it’d be easier to handle the rejection, if Willow wasn’t mired by the complexity of the situation. That it’d be easier to handle the loss of friendship for Willow, if Willow was able to hate Amity- But now that she can’t, that just makes what was lost so much more painful. Still, it’s closure, and it’s the truth- And that’s what Willow deserves. And I don’t think Amity and Willow could truly reconcile, had Amity not admitted this- Because it’d always be in the back of her head, a secret kept, information that the other deserves to know.

           In some ways, I guess I could liken the situation to Lilith in Agony of a Witch; How she was being threatened with execution by Belos… How she was planning to cure Eda and rescue her from a fate worse than death, how she didn’t necessarily capture Luz on her own, Luz was already to be arrested for trying to steal the Healing Hat; How Lilith did everything with the best intentions, perhaps the only thing she could’ve done… But in the end, Luz and Eda are fully justified in their trauma, and any resentment they hold towards Lilith regardless. And it’s painful, because you can argue that Lilith doesn’t deserve to have this held against her; But the damage has been done. And even if Luz and Eda DO forgive her afterwards, all of their anger and betrayal at Lilith, for what she did during Agony of a Witch- It’s still justified. And it hurts, because Lilith didn’t truly choose this, she didn’t fully accept this of her own choice; She lacked quite a bit of agency.

          And while I don’t want to downplay the choices she did make, it just makes Luz and Eda (and Willow for Amity) be forced to consider things from her perspective, to challenge themselves with the question of what they’d have done, in that situation. And even if THEY, personally, would not have done the same; Lilith and Amity, they’re not the same person as them, for better or worse. They have different personality traits that aren’t better or worse, but can lead to them making the wrong decision in certain scenarios. The problem is more than just this individual, it’s other individuals, and even an entire system that enables and makes things worse; And now the protagonists have to confront that. Belos isn’t just a ‘bad egg’, his entire Coven System is inherently flawed and needs to be undone, too- Belos being more kind and well-meaning wouldn’t erase that.

           But while the actual nuance of the situation can make things more complicated, and a lot more difficult to figure out; In the end, I think it’s worth it, not just for the closure to find out the truth- But eventually, it CAN make forgiveness easier. However, the truth does make everything else that comes before that, a lot harder. The initial problem is no longer the root cause, but the symptom; And now the protagonists have to handle the very thing that causes all of these issues to arise as a result. Even if Amity apologized to Willow and changed her behavior, this all happened because of parental abuse- And she’s STILL undergoing parental abuse, and you can’t ignore this, the cat’s out of the bag and the can of worms have been opened. Even if Lilith figured out a way to cure Eda of the curse, she still cursed her sister because of a system set up by Belos; And there are plenty of other kids in that system, too.

[gallavictorious]

Do you think Mickey feels he got closure with terry?

Short answer and based on what we’ve seen so far: not really, no. Or rather: not yet.

Long (and I do mean really quite long) answer below.

Admittedly, writing on this topic now, before we’ve seen how Mickey deals with the aftermath of Terry’s death in the next episode, strikes me as a bit of a fool’s errand, because what we get on Sunday will (probably, hopefully) offer us more insight into how he feels about his dad and their relationship now. But I am fascinated with the subject, so I’m going to go ahead and indulge in rambling, though with the proviso that everything below is a tentative analysis that might well need to be revised once 11x09 has aired. As always, I’m glad of other people’s input, because I suspect I’m nowhere near done forming my opinion on this.

Before we start, I’d like to note that this post solely and specifically addresses how Mickey reacts to his dad and trauma on the show; it’s not a statement on how actual live trauma victims should or should not relate to their abusers. That really, really isn’t for me to say. Okay?

All right, then. Let’s get to it:

Following 10x12 I thought that Mickey was pretty much done with Terry; as far as he was concerned, that bridge was burned once Terry burned down The Bamboo Lotus, and even though they must have reached some sort of unspoken cold war type of truce (ie not actively trying to kill one another) Mickey seemed content to ignore his dad. No more asking for advice; no more helping out with various “jobs”; no more attempts at some semblance of a relationship, be it a cordial one or a murderous one. What we got in 11x06 didn’t really change that: seeing Terry thus weakened understandably stirred a lot of emotion in Mickey but both his choice not to kill his dad and his choice to eventually help him have arguably less to do with Terry or Mickey’s relationship to him, and more to do with what sort of person Mickey wants to be. At that point, he chooses to be a man stepping away from his father’s hateful legacy, wanting to be better than that. (And by God, Mickey dearest, you are so much better than that.) And that could have been the end of it, you know? That could have been closure of a sort – not in the sense that it in any way healed the wounds of the past, but in the sense that it signified Mickey finding a way to live with the hurt that allows him to move forward.

Now, we knew (from the episode descriptions) this wasn’t the end of their story, but I was still surprised by Mickey’s overt preoccupation with Terry in 11x08. This isn’t just someone doing the (more than) decent thing to be a decent person, this is genuine concern for Terry’s welfare – and while part of it might be tied to the ingrained idea that “family is family” and while Mickey is still very much aware of the fact that Terry is an utter piece of shit, it’s very hard not to read this as Mickey – once more, and probably without fully acknowledging it– being driven by a latent wish for his father’s approval, that need for connection. (As I’ve argued before, I think that’s why Ian’s not necessarily very enthusiastic about Mickey’s dedication, even though he thinks everyone should receive aid and even though he probably is quite taken with Mickey being so caring.)

But while I didn’t really see it coming, I do like it. I get why you’d rather have him finally and vocally and possibly violently denounce his dad; it’d be cathartic, surely, for a lot of people to see that. But to me, what we get feels truer to the complex push and pull of their fractured bond and is quite frankly more interesting to me because it is messy and complicated and unfinished. Terry is a nightmare; he’s still Mickey’s dad; the relationship between an abusive parent and a child is often highly complex, and I think the show has done a consistently good job of showing that. 11x08 is no exception. You might think Mickey should tell his dad to fuck of once and for all because Terry doesn’t deserve Mickey’s time or devotion (I mean, he really doesn’t), but I find it highly realistic that Mickey would opt for this instead now that it’s a possibility. (It’s relevant to note, I think, that Mickey only allows himself to approach Terry again when Terry is helpless and not in a position to actually harm him; Mickey’s ultimately in control here, and I think that’s very important.)

So yeah, I think Mickey is searching for something from his dad still, but I don’t think he quite gets it. Can’t get it, really.

See, I believe that Terry, to some small degree at least, regrets not having a better relationship with Mickey: that’s how I read “you’d probably have made a half-decent son”. However, his regret isn’t tied to any notions of “I wish I’d been better and given another chance I’d try to do things differently” but instead an expression of “yeah, it suck’s that you’re gay so I had to hate you”. It’s not an acceptance of responsibility or even a vague hint of being willing to change or to accept Mickey for who he is, and because of that – because Terry is not willing or able to change and because Mickey will no longer accept anything less – Mickey’s potential but unvoiced dreams of reconciliation cannot be fulfilled. (And let’s be clear: even if Terry did repent and changed and made what amends he could that doesn’t undo or make up for the damage he has done and Mickey has zero obligation to forgive him or spend even another second in his company.)

So it’s not enough – what could be? – but it is something. A grudging acknowledgment of Mickey’s good qualities, an admission that he is desirable as a son – or would be, if it weren’t for that one thing. :/ It’s recognition and rejection all wrapped into one, and I really like Mickey’s response: he makes it clear that he knows that he’s not the problem here and that he’s fully aware of what an evil bastard Terry is but that he still chooses to be there; chooses to feed Terry and find him a nurse, rather than scoop his eyeballs out or piss on him or use his mouth for a fucking ashtray.

It reminds me of a passage from the Swedish novel Beartown by Fredrik Backman: “She will hold all the power in that moment, but she will spare him. She doesn’t forgive, she doesn’t pardon, she merely spares him. He will always know it.” (2017[2016]:466, my translation.)

It’s remarkable too, I find, that Mickey doesn’t try to hide his hurt here: he allows himself to be vulnerable, to let his father see the pain he has caused. And Terry doesn’t pounce on it; he doesn’t scorn Mickey’s “weakness” or argue with his denunciation; he accepts the judgement and opens his mouth to accept the food without further protest, accepting – in that moment, at least – what Mickey chooses to give him. He concedes his loss of power and his dependance on the son he tortured and disowned. (But it’s not like he gives fully either – there’s no apology, no thanks, no actually asking for help: he just opens his mouth. It’s a lot for Terry, and I think we can acknowledge that, but it doesn’t change the fact that he is an utter and total asshole – and I’m glad that the show didn’t have him do more, because that would have felt… unlikely to me.)

It’s such a small thing, and so far less than what Mickey deserves, but probably more than he expected at this point. In time I think it will be helpful to him, to have gotten even this much, but at the time of Terry’s death I’d argue that it adds to rather than lessens Mickey’s burden. Because it’s possible that this could serve as a bookend to their relationship: not a reconciliation but as much of peace as they’ll ever know – eyes lifted to momentarily meet across the abyss in one brief instance of seeing, and being seen by, one another. But going only by what we get in 11x08 I don’t think that this is quite it, and rather than Mickey (in the moment) taking this as the final word or where they stand I think that he – in spite of everything Terry has done – can’t help but think of this exchange as an opening, the potential start of something. Not sure it’s a conscious thing, or how comfortable he is with this notion, because of course he is still very angry with and hates his dad, but consider the way he keeps looking at his phone and insisting they check back in with the nurse: that’s not the actions of someone who has laid things to rest and let it go, that’s Mickey doubling down on being a concerned son and… Yeah. As things stand, I tend to think that he was hoping against hope that maybe, possibly–

And then Terry is dead and Mickey is left with all of his conflicting emotions and nothing to do with them. It’d have been easier, probably, if it hadn’t been for that tiny, tiny softening; that small flare of hope I think Mickey might be quite angry with himself for feeling, if he admits to feeling it at all. It’d be easier if he could just hate Terry, you know?

Now, we don’t know what Mickey would have done if Terry (and that’s a big fucking if) had ever indicated any actual regret. But whether Mickey would have wanted that opportunity to rekindle a relationship with his father or if he’d have used to spit in Terry’s face and spend five hours telling him why Mickey would never forgive him and felt nothing but hatred and revulsion for him, that choice was forever and finally taken from him.

However, I don’t think this means that Mickey won’t find closure; I believe he will, and I think – hope – that we’ll get to see some of that in the next episode. Because the thing about Terry not being willing or able to change means that he would never have been able to give Mickey what he truly needed anyway (and as mentioned, even if he did change there’s no undoing his crimes). It was always going to come down to Mickey finding a way to live with the scars; finding a way to make some sort of peace with the past (which doesn’t have to include making peace with Terry at all) and to let it be the past. He doesn’t strictly speaking need Terry for that and given what an asshole Terry is, maybe it’s actually easier to manage it when he’s not around to fuck it up.

So yeah. It’s not likely to be sweet or neat or even very conclusive – these things rarely are and recovery is a process – but I think that Mickey will get some closure one way or another, and I believe that in the end he’ll be glad for the tiny moment they shared just before Terry’s death, even if it’s a complicating factor now.

(It should also be noted that Terry isn’t horrible just as an evil response to Mickey being gay; he was plenty horrible to him and the rest of his kids outside of that too. Consider Mickey listing the awful things Terry did when Mickey was just a kid; consider Mandy telling Debbie in season 5 that she learned how to cover up a bruise form living with Terry. The attempted murder(s) and corrective rape and disowning Mickey was a result of Terry’s virulent homophobia, but he was an awful father long before he knew Mickey was gay. So even without the homophobia, there’d be a hell of a lot to hate him for.)

There’s certainly more to say on this topic, and I think that we’ll have reason to return to it come Sunday - but for now, that’s most of my thoughts, I think.

[dreamersleeps]

So, as someone whose father is very similar to Endeavor, I've never understood the notion that Horikoshi is trying to whitewash or excuse his abuse by giving him a character arc. Abusers are awful people, but it's not often that they're one-dimensional villains. Nobody ever talks about how confusing it is when your abuser wakes up and sees the damage they've caused, much less when they clumsily try to make ammends. It seems fans would rather it all be simple, when it's anything but in reality

/2 Are there ways it can be handled better? Of course. But a writer making an effort to explore the complexities of abuse through all its angels is far from abuse apology. It’s much more respectful (imo) to treat the situation like the confusing, complicated mess it is in reality, rather than reduce it to some simple cartoonishly evil bullshit that either limits the survivors of his abuse to being lifelong victims, or enables the continued abuse perpetuated by a former victim (i.e., Dabi)

Hello, I’d like to thank you for sharing your thoughts and opinions. I was actually surprised to open up Tumblr to see your messages in my inbox. I spent the past couple of days sitting on and thinking about it. I’m not sure if you were asking for my thoughts and opinions, but I’ve finally sat down and written my response. It’s late at night so I apologize if there are any statements below that are poorly worded or expressed. 

As you express, it’s a very complicated topic as a whole, because Endeavor, or Todoroki Enji is a complicated character. 

I can not and will not claim that I understand abuse like those who have experienced it. Additionally, It’s not in my place to tell people how to feel or think. However in response to what you shared, I will give some of my thoughts as a reader and fan of BNHA on the topics surrounding Endeavor. (Btw to the anon: some of what I have to say below will be my general opinions about the topic as a whole.)

When I try to write meta and other analysis pieces, I try my best to go back to the manga and base my analysis and arguments on the (official) translations instead of my opinions and thoughts from the beginning. I sometimes have to go back and re-read chapters to remind myself what is “canon” and then try to understand and express my interpretations on the matter. This is not to talk down on those who do not do this: this is just something I do for myself. I am most definitely influenced greatly by what others have to say but I also want to figure out my own interpretation of the story and characters.  

So, as someone whose father is very similar to Endeavor, I’ve never understood the notion that Horikoshi is trying to whitewash or excuse his abuse by giving him a character arc. 

I personally never really saw it as Horikoshi trying to excuse Endeavor’s abuse by giving him a character arc as well. As many others have stated, I don’t see it as a “redemption arc,” because it isn’t. 

I think that we all have to remember the diversity of the fans and readers of this and other fandoms. There are those who can personally relate to or understand what the Todoroki family has gone through, and others who are unable to. Those who are unable to fully understand certain experiences but can sympathize with the characters however even then, this lack of knowledge or exposure to the topic has led to people accidently expressing opinions that hurt or offended others. Additionally, based on what I’ve seen and read on Tumblr, there is quite a wide range of differing viewpoints from those those who can relate to the experiences of the Todoroki family.

Abusers are awful people, but it’s not often that they’re one-dimensional villains. Nobody ever talks about how confusing it is when your abuser wakes up and sees the damage they’ve caused, much less when they clumsily try to make amends. It seems fans would rather it all be simple, when it’s anything but in reality.

Abuse is complex. There is a very wide range of complicated feelings, emotions, thoughts and opinions that surround it. Everyone has a reason as to why they feel or think the way they do. Because we all have had different experiences and reactions to the events of our lives, we can not expect everyone to think similarly. 

Given that BNHA or shounen manga in general is catered towards a younger audience (compared to, lets say seinen manga) and Horikoshi is working with topics that are difficult to read or understand even for adults, I’d argue that part of the discourse may result from that. 

It seems like when we say that we like a certain character, people tend to automatically assume then that we approve of what they stand for and what they’ve done. I first watched the first two seasons of BNHA before I began reading it. I absolutely hated Endeavor in the beginning, however after I caught up in the manga and began to follow the chapter releases each week, ultimately the characters that really pulled me in to the story was Endeavor, Hawks, and Bakugou, arguably some of the most controversial characters of the series. 

Are there ways it could be handled better? Of course. But a writer making an effort to explore the complexities of abuse through all its angles is far from abuse apology. It’s much more respectful (imo) to treat the situation like the confusing, complicated mess it is in reality, rather than reduce it to some simple cartoonishly evil bullshit that either limits the survivors of his abuse to being lifelong victims, or enables the continued abuse perpetuated by a former victim (i.e Dabi) 

What truly drew me in was the complexities that came with their characters. I haven’t personally experienced abuse however I have lived through other experiences to recognize in my own understanding that life is both so negatively and positively complicated, confusing and messy. Some people want to see Endeavor fall, and others hope to see him actually change. These wishes are shaped by what we’ve seen or experienced throughout life. 

We like simple, clear cut, perhaps one dimensional characters because it’s easier to form an opinion about them. It seems like we struggle with characters like Endeavor and others because we are sometimes faced with the contradicting collision of our own thoughts, morals and beliefs with the actions and story of these characters. 

For some reason a lot of my analysis posts have revolved around Endeavor, Hawks, and Dabi and if anyone is interested, I personally believe that as much as we may love a character, whoever it may be, actions should and will be met with consequences. Tragedy does not excuse one’s actions. They may explain one’s actions but we are responsible for and should be held accountable for the consequences that result from it.  

If anyone was thinking it, this all does not mean that I think Horikoshi should be exempt from critique. And as you ask and answer, “Are there ways it could be handled better? Of course.” Additionally as I have written on the top of my blog, 

There will be posts found here that you may not agree with, however different perspectives are what keeps the meta conversation going. 

I think that many of us would prefer it if people would refrain from accusing, insulting or bullying Horikoshi and other fans because of their thoughts and opinions. Although it is understandable that it is difficult when we respond to the story and others emotionally, taking part in these types of activities is not the same as critiquing something. 

Boku no Hero Academia is still an ongoing manga. We get one chapter every one or two weeks at a time and so we only get little snippets of the full story. Based on new info and what we’ve read in past chapters, we make predictions, assumptions and have expectations about the future. However, I think that we all have to remember that the story of Enji, Rei, Touya, Fuyumi, Natsuo and Shouto is not complete yet. We are still in the midst of an unfolding narrative that Horikoshi is working closely with to present his readers. 

[thedreadvampy]

I'm a big fan of your georgie meta about how setting boundaries is incredibly hard but also completely necessary. if i can add, the fact that this is such a messy situation with no answer that's not gonna end up with someone hurt (who's doing the hurting is irrelevant here), is why it's such good horror. I love how the horror of the more interpersonal kind works alongside the clearly supernatural. It's so tragic that Georgie even had to make that choice, it's horrifying to see Jon 1/2

2/2 struggle with this addiction to hurting other people (maybe against his will? that's really the question isn't it). like i also believe georgie made the right choice but even if circumstances were different and she really cast jon off like that, she wouldn't be Problematique because this shit isn't supposed to be neat or happy

--------

Right? I really do struggle with the idea that we’re meant to view anyone as a Pure Victim or Pure Abuser in this show but particularly with this situation...like I’m not gonna speak for Jonny but just based on how many people my age or older have experienced something similar, and particularly given that he’s mentioned his own past experiences with addiction and self-destructive behaviour, like the. uh. the real visceral emotive horror of this horror podcast is the degree to which you can do everything you can and still not have a good answer. like. Georgie is trying to do right by everyone and Jon is trying to stop something awful happening and Martin is trying to save the world and none of them are acting maliciously or blindly, they can all see the harm that their actions are causing and isn’t that the absolute root of horror? to see it coming and not to be able to stop yourself becoming part of it?

like I don’t actually take issue with the idea that having pushed everyone away, being alone is the reason Jon can’t get out. this is very effective horror and it’s something I have watched happen time and again. I don’t take issue with the idea that Georgie made a choice which hurt Jon, knowing it would hurt him. again, that’s a horror that rings really, really true with my own experiences. it’s the same fundamental horror as when someone stays hiding in silence while a monster kills their friend - screaming or trying to fight it won’t help and will just get you both killed, but there’s a horrible emotional complicity in knowing someone will suffer and choosing not to try to save them, even when trying will only hurt everyone. that’s some Good Fuckin Storytelling

but what I do take issue with is the idea that this means that you are doing something wrong. and sorry this isn’t really a reply to you any more I’ve just been stewing on it. I really, really am very angry that people are framing “saying that Jon is acting self-destructively” as victim-blaming when the whole framework of “Georgie didn’t save him which means she’s a Bad Person” is so...implying that the reason this really painful and traumatic thing happened is because You Weren’t Strong Enough To Prevent It so it’s Your Fault (or in the case of that meta I was sent, Your Failure To Handle This Perfectly Means You Must Be Maliciously Causing Your Own Pain In Order To Hurt Others). which. assfnjghduifghduighuighdfi siri what is victim blaming

(to clarify - on distancing and reflection while I still do disagree with the original post I was responding to, I don’t actually think the intent of that post was to put fault on Georgie. the subsequent messages I got and other posts in this discourse I read, though, very much did take the position They’re All Flawed Characters Who Do Shitty Things, Here’s Why What Georgie Did Was Flawed And Shitty which. like. ok. the horror comes from the inability to respond perfectly. but the horror in that situation really is that there’s no good response, and that the way Georgie acted, bar a couple of relatively minor missteps, is literally the textbook example of How You Should Respond in this situation. the horror and the impact of that in the story is that it demonstrates that you can do everything right and still not escape causing harm to yourself and others. There simply Is No Painless Way Out. and to interpret that as saying ‘this was Malicious and Unkind and I am justifying that by pointing out that Nobody Is Perfect This Is A Horror Podcast’ misses the point in a colossal way. YES people fuck up and act thoughtlessly or maliciously in TMA but the most effective horror is when they act with compassion and thought and the best possible intentions and still cause harm because the situation is too tangled and too impossible)

...

also on a different note I am really interested by your aside about “against his will” because I think with addiction (using addiction in the broad sense that includes eg self harm, anger, self-destructive or risk-taking behaviour, and paranoia/conspiratorial thinking as well as like, substance abuse) that concept is so muddy as to be meaningless and again I think that’s where the horror lies and one of the things I increasingly really like about TMA is that, as someone who’s been surrounded by a lot of those things all my life, I reckon it does a really good job of drawing out those question marks. the question of where good intentions meet bad actions, and which intentions and wants define you, and whether these addictions are imposing something on you or exposing something in you, and to what degree you control your wants and to what degree they control you. and what it means to want something you don’t want. and to choose something you’d never choose. and to be stuck in your body while you’re simultaneously sure you want something and it’s a good idea and screaming at yourself to stop. and I love the way that’s manifested in Jon’s fear of the Web and the ambiguity about to what degree the Web is the fear that everything is a manipulation and to what degree the Web is the fear that you don’t know which bits are just you. and also like. the degree that the fear of being controlled by something outside you can very readily lead you to lose all control of yourself whether or not it’s real. this is another big tangent but ARGH the WEB it’s such a GOOD DEPICTION OF COMPULSIVE PROBLEMS!!!!!!!!!!

[boycottyashahime]

why do these sessr*nners have to twist a beautiful father/daughter relationship into something romantic/sexual? I don't get it, why do people even ship this??? they sound like literal PERVERTS , and i hate when they give those excuses like "he's being shipped with adult rin" BULLSHIT adult Rin doesn't even exist, when the series ended she was still a child. Seriously i can't with those maps.

We live in a world that has a history of letting adult men prey on young girls up to and including the present moment. Abuse like this has always been presented as normal and natural and perfectly fine. Only recently have we begun to understand as a species how these experiences scar and hurt girls for the rest of their lives, but we have centuries of media that presents those experiences in a positive and desirable light. Books upon books upon shows upon movies exist in which young girls are groomed by older men to be their perfect partners, and whole societies at large are still absorbing them every day.

So is it really any surprise when people in the Inuyasha fandom come to expect that outcome for Sesshoumaru and Rin as well? It's actually a perfectly rational assumption; this is just another example in a pattern they've been seeing in media their whole lives. SessRin is thought to be inevitable because in an overwhelming amount of cases like this, it IS inevitable. So when fans of SessRin see US, interpreting the relationship in a totally different way, they think we're crazy, because it seems so obvious to them that Sesshoumaru and Rin will be a couple.

That's why most arguments for this pairing revolve around sources outside the manga and the commonality of this type of relationship in history and other stories; this is what initially convinced the shipper. Any arguments from within the manga tend to revolve around how Sesshoumaru's father and Inuyasha both got together with human women, again, relying more on the perception of a pattern than the content of the relationships. It's clear that this is how it's going to go for Sesshoumaru and Rin too, no matter how differently their relationship is presented to the others. It's just generally how everyone has been conditioned to think about a man interacting with a little girl.

So, even though I know it's difficult to stomach the interpretation for some of us, you have to acknowledge that it IS logical to come to it, in a certain sense. SessRin fans are just using a wider metric to do their interpreting. There are also plenty of other reasons why it might be appealing; the concept of having one person there for you your whole life fulfilling every emotional and physical need can be a tempting daydream, considering we live complicated and messy lives constantly skirting around the liars and the cheats and getting burned by multiple jerks along the way.

I sarcastically reply to the SessRin shippers who send me inflammatory asks and have a bit of fun, but in the end, I don't begrudge them the ship. I'm a big believer in interpreting a story in a way that's meaningful, so however someone drives meaning from it is fine by me. I don't think Sunrise or RT should be able to tell shippers that they're "wrong" or "right" any more than they should tell us the same. It's fiction - there is no truth but to what degree you can relate and draw personal happiness from it.

But I will say that, due to the prevalence of the kind of media that makes this interpretation of older man/young girl relationships a foregone conclusion, we are ALL dealing with a systemic problem of risky and exploitative relationships being normalized and romanticized in such a way as to lower the guard of the young women (and sometimes men) who are engaging with them. Predators have and continue to use fictional relationships to convince their victims that the abuse they experience is perfectly fine. I think that it would behoove the SessRin community to make sure that those in their midst who are young and vulnerable know the warning signs, understand when an older person may be trying to take advantage of them, and encourage drawing a clear line between the fictional ship and real relationships. I also think that if there is someone in the community who, as an older individual, tries to ply the younger members with sexualized content for the pairing and convince them that they should be in a relationship with an older man, those other adults in the community should protect the younger members in any way possible by denouncing and rejecting this behavior. Keeping those most vulnerable in the community safe from those who would take advantage of their interests should be a top priority.

In the meantime, I think that all of us should do their best to create and promote media that features adoptive father-daughter relationships to mitigate the normalization of power imbalance relationships. It would be great if, in the future, a father-daughter interpretation is more plausible to everyone so that there are fewer girls convinced that adult male sexual attention is good and normal, and make them less likely to view it when it happens to them without a critical eye.

One of my favorite father-daughter adoptive relationships in literature is in Les Miserables - Jean Valjean and Cosette. Feel free to list your own on this post, and take care.