#stormlight 5 prologue

[crypticpatterns]

i just read the stormlight 5 prologue and i'm going insane that this whole fucking time thaidakar was secretly kelsier. gavilar says some random name and szeth is like 'who' and we're thinking the same thing but we actually know exactly who that is. its fucking kelsier going by some other edgier name. god

[kaladinstormblessed09]

The irony of this being the same blade that would kill him few hours later….

[to-shards-you-say]

girl i'm thinking!!! i'm THINKING!!!!!

[thestormlightnetwork]

i had a dream last night that Gavilar was Odium's champion. wasn't on my 2023 bingo to have a dream about stormlight. also I think Kelsier was there.

[themalhambird]

Read the first 100 pages of Stormlight 5 this morning and so far it's a goddamn delight.

I do *so* enjoy watching Gavilar Kholin die.

[artifabrianrushu]

At least the dumbass realized his errors in the last moments of his life

[sedgewicke]

While I'm sure THE WORDS that are most definitely in The Way of Kings that'll [????? PROFIT] are probably something like... y'know, not actually in there, but they're an answer to a question asked or something that shows that you've understood Nohadon's ramblings, so in a way it's kinda in there... I mean, unless they've already been revealed, and it's totally not that.

But, like.

Wouldn't it be fucking hilarious if it was just an acrostic poem? Like a diagonal one. Some real bullshit like that.

Alternatively:

The fate of the planet may hang in the balance. Almost there. My fingers flew. My mind was a steel trap. Every pore vibrated. It was almost clear. Yes, yes, yes!

WHAT THE FUCK IS OVALTINE!? SON OF A BITCH!

[asteroidfieldgame]

The most disapointing thing about Stormlight 6-10 is that they'll have a different event as the prologues instead of Gavilar's assasination. I was really looking forward to 5 more books of new characters being there. Before WaT preview came out and finding out that Kelsier survived, I was joking that Kelsier would be the next character confirmed there. Now we'll never learn that 3 more Heralds, TenSoon, Riina, and Nightblood were all secretly there hanging out while Gavilar got stabbed.

[gabwynart]

Just finished Wind and Truth and... I have a lot of issues with this book, I love it, sure, its still a Brandon Sanderson Book and I like it, but when this books is supossed to be the closing part of the first arc of the stormlight archive I was expecting more

SPOILERS ALERT!!!!!!! READ WIND AND TRUTH!!!!!11

.

.

.

.

The good:

-Adolin, like, if you have read the book you know why this is here, he is literally doom guy tryin his darn best to protect the city, be a friend, help his ex, help the morale of the team and just making the right thing, without powers

-Taravangian showing how hipocrite Jasnah was, I know its an important character trail that Jasnah believes she is superior to everyone else and always has a snarky comment to reflect any insult, but in this book taravangian DESTROYS HER WITH FACTS AND LOGIC (sorry I just wanted to type that lol)

-Tanavast chapters finally giving us some more lore

-Gavilar prelude is 100% the best prologue

-SHALLAN IS PREGNANTTTTTT GIRLLLLLLLLLL

-Kaladin and Syl dancing

-Taravangian winning and 3 seconds later realizing "Oh sh*t the other shards now are loooking at me "

The bad

-WHY DOES THE SPIRITUAL REALM CAN HOLD A LIVING BEING FOR 20 YEARS AND THEN SPIT OUT LIKE NOTHING?? IS THIS THE TIME CHAMBER FROM DBZ????!!! THATS SO STUPID, WHY DID ODIUM WASTED SO MUCH TIME WITH THE FUSED AND THE EVERSTORM IF HE COULD JUST TRAIN A SUPER ARMY FOR 100 YEARS IN THE SPIRITUAL REALM

-WHY DID BOTH KALADIN AND SZETH JUST DONT GIVE A F*CK ABOUT ACHIEVING 5 IDEAL ORDER?????????

-NAVANI REALLY DIDN'T DO ANYTHING RELEVANT

-THE SO CALLED DAWNSHARD "ONE OF THE MOST POWERFUL WEAPONS IN THE COSMERE" DID ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ON THIS BOOK

-Thaidakar get your lame ass back to scadrial because you achieve nothing on this book

[knight-of-skyloft]

So this bit from the Stormlight 5 prologue fucking kills me:

Hand quivering, he reached toward his pocket and pulled out sphere. The weapon. They needed to have this. His son… No, his son could not handle this… They needed a warrior. A true warrior. One that Gavilar had been doing his best to suppress for years. Out of a fear he barely dared acknowledge, even as he drew his last, ragged breaths.

Dalinar. Storms help them, it came down to Dalinar.

Gavilar was so wrong, the world didn't need the Blackthorn, they needed a diplomat and a strategist. Dalinar's reputation as a butcher kept so many nations from joining the Coalition. In Gavilar's dying moments he grabbed for the thing that had solved every other problem in his life-- he called his brother to action. And then he was gone, and for the first time in Dalinar's life he had to decide for himself what he was being asked to do. And for the first time in Dalinar's life, he didn't see it as a call for violence. He thought his brother was asking him to step up and be better. Like do you get it. Guys do you get it

[kaladinstormblessed09]

I need WaT in my hand so bad! The prologue was so fucking good. This is my favourite one after TWoK. Gavilar being so stupid and dying just like that when he had all these plans to be an immortal, because he manipulated the wrong person is the ultimate fuck around and find out 🤣. And how we get a bit more information about him and that night through each book prologue is such master story telling. I can’t I need this book. Give me it!

[to-shards-you-say]

line of all time. this had better be an unkillable darling. im pointing and laughing. dipshit

[thaidakar-is-hot]

Kelsier Essay Part 5

Towards this part of the essay I was running out of steam. Some spelling errors and less professional language.

Hoid in the Well: Secret History

When it comes to this scene, I won’t argue that Kelsier was being extra here. The man has been cooped up in a 5x5 spot for a long time, with no answers and seriously questioning his logic at becoming what he’s become. His only companion is an insane, unraveling god who barely speaks most times he “visits.” So when an actual man comes by, floating on what looks to be a corpse, Kelsier is immediately on edge.

All quotes are taken from pages 228 – 233, of Part 2, Chapter 1, of Secret History.

“ “Who are you?” Kelsier asked, stepping to the edge of his prison, eyes narrowed. “A spirit?” “Alas,” the man said, “death has never really suited me. Bad for the complexion, you see.” He studied Kelsier, lips raised in a knowing smile. Kelsier hated him immediately.” “

Seen from Kelsier’s perspective, this is a man that knows things and is holding back. This is a schemeing, conniving man, that is similar to the nobles he’s dealt with all his life. It doesn’t help that Hoid and Kelsier have similar personalities. Note Hoid’s words, “bad for the complexion.” A similar line is used by Kelsier at the very beginning of TFE. 

“Fieldwork hasn’t ever really suited me.” Kelsier said. “It’s far too hard on my delicate skin.” (Prologue, page 6, TFE).

“Got stuck there, did you?” the man said. “In Ati’s prison…” He clicked his tongue. “Fitting recompense, for what you did. Poetic, even.” “What I did?” “Destroying the Pits, O Scarred one. That was the only perpendicularity on this planet with any reasonable ease of access.” Kelsier has no idea what a perpendicularity is. Yes, he destroyed it. Did he know what he was doing on a grand scale? No. He was, to his knowledge, destroying the Empire’s main economic driver. Hoid treats him like a criminal when Kelsier was fighting against an unjust Empire, one that Hoid is very familiar with, having been to Scadrial before. Calling him names doesn’t help.

“Who are you?” Kelsier said. “I?” The man said. “I am a driver. A miscreant. The flame’s last breath, made of smoke at it’s passing.” “That’s…needlessly obtuse.” Well said, Kelsier. Hoid plays games, this we know from dealing with him in Stormlight. However, with Kaladin and Shallan he gives half answers, or none at all, in a playful, non-demeaning way. Here he’s laden with vitriol and spite, for no good reason. It gets worse.

“And you claim to not be dead?” “If I were, would I need this?” the Driver said, knocking his oar against the front of his small loglike vessel. [Kelsier notices Spanky for the first time, not knowing what a cognitive shadow just is yet.] “A corpse,” he whispered. “Oh Spanky here is just a spirit. It’s damnably difficult to get about in this subastral—anyone physical risks slipping through these mists and falling, perhaps forever. So many thoughts pool together here, becoming what you see around, and you need something finer to travel over it all.” “That’s horrible.” “Says the man who built a revolution on the backs of the dead. At least I only need one corpse.” Hoid is being ridiculous here. Yes, Spanky is a cognitive shadow, but as I’ve stated, Kelsier has no idea what that is. To his knowledge, this man is riding a corpse around. Hoid is also forgetting that the people Kelsier murdered were far less than innocent; Kelsier can make distinctions here. A rapist and murderer who regularly abuses his peasants is different from a corpse used to wade down a lake of thoughts.

Kelsier folded his arms. This man was wary—thought he spoke lightheartedly, he watched Kelsier with care, and held back as if contemplating a method of attack.

Note the diction here; Kelsier is reading Hoid’s body language as he should; Hoid is planning to use the well to gain purchase in the spiritual realm and take that bead of Lerasium. He isn’t planning anything wrong per se, but Kelsier has no way of knowing that. All Kelsier sees is a man preparing to attack.

“He wants something, Kelsier guessed. Something that I have, maybe? No, he seemed legitimately surprised that Kelsier was there. He had come here, intending to visit the Well. Perhaps he wanted to enter it, access the power? Or did he, perhaps, just want to have a look at the thing Beyond?”

Wrong guesses, but good ones all the same for an ignorant man. Hoid does want something. So far, Kelsier’s waryness is completely justified. He tries to be polite, asking a simple question. “Well, you’re obviously resourceful,” Kelsier said. “Perhaps you can help me with my predicament.” “Alas,” The Driver said. “Your case is hopeless.” Kelsier felt his heart sink. “Yes, nothing to be done,” the Driver continued. “You are, indeed, stuck with that face. By manifesting those same features on this side, you show that even your soul is resigned to you always looking like one ugly sonofa—" “Bastard!” Kelsier cut in. “You had me for a second.”

Instead of even offering Kelsier a crumb of help, he instead insults him, for…very little reason. Hoid rarely kicks people when they’re down; he instead punches up. We notice this with the Rosharan nobility. He doesn’t insult the peasant waitstaff. Why is he insulting Kelsier? There is no reason to do so; he’s just being an ass to be an ass. Kelsier hasn’t even mouthed off yet.

So far Hoid has treated him like an inferior, insulted him and been “needlessly” obtuse, all while showing suspicious body language. Is it any wonder Kelsier is on edge and ready to defend the Well? He knows it’s for Vin; he means to protect it until she can have it.

The two go back and forth for some time, speaking of Kelsier’s bastard nature, skaa versus nobility, and Hoid applying some (I believe it to be dor, but I’m not sure) glowing stuff to his oar. (in an effort to prevent it from de-manifesting). As they speak, Hoid edges closer to the well. Kelsier has been watching him this entire time.

He begins to ask a question again, despite Hoid’s rudeness. “Is there a way to escape this prison?” Kelsier asked. “How about this?” the Drifter said. “We’ll have an insult battle. Winner gets to ask one question, and the other has to answer truthfull. I’ll start. What’s wet, ugly, and has scars on it’s arms?” Another insult to an innocent question, and now Kelsier is very on edge. He’s obviously deflecting. So Kelsier decides to be as extra as possible in an effort to scare him away. Now, a cognitive shadow would, realistically, be as scary as an earthworm to Hoid if it’s not on Threnody, but Kelsier doesn’t know this. Which is why he brings out his “I’m-going-to-murder-you” routine that goes into lurid detail and leaves Hoid speechless. Kelsier even throws in a shrug.

Hoid then dives for the well, and Kelsier grabs him, determined to disable him, kill him, or just prevent him from doing whatever he wants to do in the well. Which leads to their fight, where Kelsier does zero damage to Hoid and Hoid proceeds to torture him incessantly as a “lesson.” He did not need to go as far as he did. If Hoid had been truthful with who he was, what he was after, and perhaps offered explanations, Kelsier would have been less inclined to act rashly. Instead, Hoid is needlessly obtuse, rude, mocking, condescending and tortures him.

It makes his words at the end of RoW amusing to me, as Hoid cheats in this fight and was the aggressor in every definition of the word. Hoid strikes first by the very fact he jumped for the Well. Kelsier was merely defending it.

“Deal with your own stupid planet, you idiot. Don’t make me come there and slap you around again.” (Chapter 115, page 1238, RoW).

Kelsier, The Ghostbloods, and the Malwish: Era 2, The Lost Metal, and SLA

It has been brought to my attention that, despite everything I outlined, I neglected to mention anything about Kelsier’s actions after the events of SH. We know very little: He had a pile of inquistor spikes that he and Spook experimented with. (Some people think he went spiking metalborn willy nilly, but these people are wrong, it doesn’t make sense, especially when metalborn were necessary to rebuild society.) We know he went and saved the entire Malwish people from extinction. I think this is a key point people forget. They were quite literally freezing to death in 60 degree (F) weather. They were forgotten by Sazed, a fan favorite whom everyone agrees is a great guy. Sazed just…didn’t care enough to help them. Kelsier created the incisors and unkeyed bronze minds and saved this entire race. 

Some people say “Well, they worshipped him and he was their leader.” If someone came and miraculously used technology you didn’t understand to save you, you would feel indebted to them too. It was a natural human emotion. Kelsier ran them for several years before leaving. He created the Bands of Mourning. (This is still under debate, by the way. I cannot give you answers how he did this.), hid them away. (Possibly because they didn’t work for him and giving them to someone else was extremely dangerous.) and left. After this he founded the Ghostbloods. I have another document that outlines the Ghostbloods and their machinations throughout SLA, and proved that while the Rosharan Ghostbloods aren’t all that nice, they certainly aren’t evil as a whole. Mraize and Iyatil are definitely villainous, and the organization on Roshar does it’s own thing, loosely following Kelsier’s orders. I doubt everything they do reaches his ears: Explain to me why Mraize would brag to his boss about chasing and imprisoning a young girl, while also bargaining with malicious occupiers. All Kelsier wanted to access to the oathgates, which Mraize successfully got. There was no need to inform of how he did it. Word reaches Kelsier regardless. It doesn’t matter how hard Mraize works at keeping his actions underwraps.

On Scadrial, Kelsier is far more in control, and his agents are far more benevolent. They have a bond; Kaise even refers to him as “Kell.” which is infers a level of intimacy (Friends, not lovers, you gutterbags) that harkens back his old thieving crew days. He’s very involved in the goings on of his planet, and cares deeply.

I’m not going to

To tie this long, rambling, and somewhat insane essay up, Kelsier is not a psychopath. He fits only one of the criteria, and only somewhat fits another. Since one needs to fit three of the traits in order to be diagnosed, the man is free from ASPD. Through the essay, I have showcased his empathy, his understanding, his patience, his trust, and his love of those around him. Hell, he says as much in Secret History when wandering, his soul cracking from loneliness. He’s a flawed man; he can be arrogant, egotistical, and impulsive, but he wants what is best for his people. This is not an argument whether Kelsier is a 10/10 moral blorbo. He’s not that. He’s not Kaladin, he’s no NuDalinar, he’s not Adolin. Why do people want him to be? The man was born in a society that was kill or be killed. His mother was forcibly murdered when they found out she was Skaa. This essay is meant to showcase why he doesn’t fit the criteria for being a psychopath. 

[marvelousmagicalaura]

I'm... I'm too deep into the Mistborn-Warbreaker pipeline. Please help.

This is something I'm going to put into my back pocket. I'm just about to read the prologue of The Way of Kings.

I'll say this flat out, I'm sure Kelsier and certain Nalthians will be involved in the events on Roshar. I remember from The Lost Metal that there are Ghostbloods active on Roshar. Warbreaker didn’t present anything for me to assume Nalthians will be involved. But considering Warbreaker before Stormlight is a common suggestion… I'm confident something big must be happening on Roshar.

I wonder if Vasher will be for Endowment, what I believe Kelsier is for Sazed.

Someone who has had a major impact on their own planet, but the ruling Shard is nudging them to impact their planet and the cosmere in vital ways. All to lead towards a grand outcome centuries into the future. Endowment is nudging Vasher towards... something important.

The Lost Metal gave me the impression that Sazed secretly trusts Kelsier and the Ghostbloods, but his plan necessitates that they believe he distrusts them. The Lost Metal gave me the impression that while Sazed was inexperienced and blinded in some regards, he has something big planned in other regards. I think he was blindsided since he lacked firsthand experience in chessmastery, while he was facing a very experienced chessmaster who wields an incredible ability to see into the future. And it's possible that while his powers (especially Preservation) knew about Autonomy planting seeds over 1300 years ago, Autonomy stopped directly interfering until after his Ascension.

Even then, I thought Sazed showed very subtle signs his precognitive abilities were better than Autonomy. Autonomy completely ignored the Ghostbloods, Wayne, and Marasi. Sazed confirmed he made the Ghostbloods into his chess pieces even though they didn’t know. Specifically, he implied they were the mobilized help that didn't know they were the help.

His cultivation of Wayne implies he is extremely adaptable. Even though he didn’t know he needed Wayne 7 years and 5 months ago, he had plenty of time to make the realization and cultivate Wayne into the perfect Slider who could detonate the bomb. Heck, he might've realized Wayne's role in the 5 months between Wax’s return and The Alloy of Law. Plus, there was surely future sight going on when he sent Wax the note suggesting to make the trellium earring.

Shadows of Self confirmed that Marasi is one of his agents, someone he's maneuvering into a position that's good for the city. The only position that would fit is Governor of Elendel. I believe Sazed he was cultivating Marasi into the Governor who could reduce crime, improve the police system, and help the world. Not by relying on statistics, theory, violence, or secrecy. But by trusting people. In addition, I got the vibe Sazed was doing something similar to Leras' own "burn all the atium" plan. That he guided Marasi and the Ghostbloods towards the Community’s location. So that Marasi, the Ghostbloods, and the Community’s Allomancers can burn up the power of Autonomy’s perpendicularity. And perhaps so Marasi can freeze Autonomy's army. She even noted the similarities between what she needed to do, and Elend's army burning all the atium.

Fucking hell, Sazed even confirmed in Bands of Mourning that he arranged for the group to stop the Set's search. And that he trusted Marasi to use the Bands but give them up.

I would also say that Autonomy ignored Tobal, Maraga, and Marsh. Those three lead the group towards the Set's true plans.

So with all that yapping said, my pet theory is that Sazed has a subtle plan for Kelsier. That plan is for Kelsier to be Sazed’s real intended Sword, while Wax and Wayne’s escapades were necessary steps. But he needs Kelsier to learn a lesson essential for the Sword. Just like he needed Marasi to learn a lesson to be Governor, or needed Wax to fight through emotional turmoil to mow down the Set's military. Or how Preservation needed Vin, Elend, and Sazed to be cultivated into people with certain mindsets and Connections.

And don't forget that Sazed holds the full history, chessboard, and future sight of “Vin isn't the Hero of Ages, it is Sazed” and “The message delivered not to Vin, but to Marsh.”

Endowment and Sazed might be subtle but devious and dangerous.

[sedgewicke]

Well. Reading the prologue to the fifth book sure is... A Thing when you've only read the first. Half of it doesn't even count as spoilers to me, it's pure word salad.

My main takeaway is that Sadeas would be fucking pissed if he knew Gavilar was keeping aaaaaaaaaallllllll thaaaaaat from him. And Merida is in on it? MERIDA!? No idea what he'd make of the secrets themselves, it's kind of a lot of a lot.

I am disappointed to know that Sadeas being with Gavilar that night meant nothing more than him hustling up like "Here, take my armor, I'm gonna go probably trying to save your life I hope you haven't been keeping any absurdly massive secrets from me bye!"

Not that I expected it to be revealed that they were banging on top of everybody's coats, but it's nice to have some empty spaces for the imagination to roll around in.

So, what's the deal with telling Dalinar not to drink (albeit in a weird, cryptic way), and then telling his guy to make sure he gets something to drink? Is it to test Dalinar's will? Is it just to fuck with him? Is it to redirect blame from Dalinar for choosing to get drunk that night and put it back on Gavilar? Because that would be on-Brando. (See: Dalinar having the gall to blame Sadeas for not doing enough, and this not being treated as an absolutely wretched thing to say.) As someone who's lived with an alcoholic for 15+ years: Fuck that. I ain't got that kind of patience for winos no more.

Everybody's pissed at Gavilar for how he treated Navani, but to be brutally honest? I don't care. You married a war criminal. What do you want? No, what I'm pissed about is how he must've treated Elhokar if that's what he thinks about him. No wonder that boy's got so many problems. I sure am glad Elhokar got to prove his dad wrong by becoming a Radiant and helping to save the wor--ohhhh. Yeeeaahhh. Fuck you, Sanderson.

EDIT: Because I should've known better than to not include a disclaimer re: my opinions on this fictional character's fictional life situation. I would have been sympathetic towards Navani, despite the fact that she made a blatantly terrible decision... but then ch 75 of TWoK happened and she pulled some real Scumbag Mom Tactics--and unlike Gavilar's Scumbag Dad Tactics, it's treated as NBD, nothing to see here--and so now? I don't care. And if you tell me I need to care? I will care less. Signed, a real life victim of emotional abuse--not that that matters, apparently.

I hope it's explained somewhere, at some point, how Gavilar got into any of this. Did he just up and start having visions like Dalinar, and one thing led to another? I don't know shit about any of these non-human entities pullin' strings and whatnot yet, but I feel like they probably have some stuff to answer for. They gotta know that humans do not do well with having mystical nonsense foisted upon them like that.

What's up with mentioning Aesudan like she's an old chum. We're talking Elhokar's wife, right? How old is she, that she'd be pallin' around with Gav and the Sadeases? Is she like Aesudan Jr. or something?

His family. In that moment, Gavilar saw his legacy crumbling. He was dying. Storms. He was dying. What was le to him? What did anything matter if he was dying. He couldn’t. He couldn’t... He was supposed to be eternal...

ngl, this got to me. Sure, he was a dumb bitch getting up to all kinds of dumb bitch shit, but I dunno, man, something about dying thoughts does stuff to me. Look, I hurt inside when I think about... Roshone's? shitty kid's death, and I don't even remember his name. No one can predict what'll get to me and what won't (probably what's not supposed to and what is, respectively), not even me.

I liked that there were little bips of humanity tucked in between all the red conspiracy string. Like "When was the last time I hung out with my friends? NO TIME! GODHOOD NOW! I think I used to like my wife? NO! RENEW THE APOCALYPSE TO SAVE THE WORLD OR SOMETHING!"

[sheyri]

Just watched Daniel Greene's 2.5h summary of Rhythm of War because Wind and Truth releases tomorrow and my brain can't remember shit, especially when it's been four years.

But it still feels unreal! Like, Stormlight 5, the conclusion of the first half, is here! Where has time gone? How has it been four years already?

I didn't follow the development at all. I know the title, I saw the covers, I know the prologue has been out for a while but I haven't read it. I'm so out of the loop and don't feel ready at all to read it.

Watching the summary I realise I should've probably reread the series, or at least Rhythm of War. But those are such bricks! I can't just casually reread them! Even though I really want to.