#steve rogers anti

[de4d-bo7-666]

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THATZ IT !!!! <3 TY 4 READING THIS LIL' INTRODUCTION POST !!

[spidersinsalem]

Team Iron man fans saying that Steve was wrong for not telling Tony that Bucky killed his parents but honestly, seeing how Tony handled finding out about it, I wouldn't have told him either. Tony was already willing to throw bucky into prison or an institution IMAGINE what he would've done if he found out bucky killed his parents while they still had him in custody. Steve was doing what he always has done, protect Bucky.

People openly supporting the revenge killing of a man who had NO control over his life for the past 70 years and wasn't even conscious for the majority of it because of something he did WHILE BRAINWASHED is insane to me.

(also please don't attack me I'm just stating my opinion TwT)

[levelofyoureye]

lmao so i was just going through my camera roll and clearing some photos out, when i stumbled across this screenshot i took in january of 2020 and…

i’m in shock. i literally don’t know how i forgot this happened, like i was actually astounded when i found this. NEVER forget when steve rogers’ ending was so horrifically out-of character that SEBASTIAN STAN HIMSELF posted a screenshot to instagram of a tweet dogging on his ending. it’s been years and i still haven’t forgiven marvel. i don’t think i ever will.

[eunuchorn]

The difference between Steve and Tony in CA:CW will always boil down to this:

Tony stands up to authority because he was born into immense wealth and privilege and has never had to answer to anyone. He defies authority because he knows he'll never have to face actual consequences for doing so.

Steve stands up to authority because he was born into poverty and grew up a poor, disabled Irish-American during the Great Depression. He defies authority because he knows what it's like to be dismissed, undervalued, and disenfranchised and never wants anyone to face that.

Tony pushed for the accords because he knew he could just break them and nothing would happen to him (which is exactly how it went down).

Steve refused to sign the accords because he would never sign away his human rights and the rights of other people to an authority he knew would abuse them (which, again, is exactly what happened).

So in a way, they were both right about the accords. Tony was just also infinitely more wrong.

[mentalmeles]

"Let's go show em what a couple of kids from Brooklyn can do!"

I am very excited to finally have a teamup for Steve and Bucky, if you can't already tell. And it's called Stars Aligned?? They truly are star crossed lovers, fr fr

[morgangalaxy43]

I feel like the main 6 Avengers actually had really bad character development in Avengers Endgame because Clint didn’t really do anything, Bruce’s arc was skipped over, Natasha was killed off, Tony died even though it wasn’t necessary, Thor’s struggles where made into a joke and Steve left Bucky and all of his teammates to be with Peggy in past

A lot things that happened in Avengers Endgame felt more like character regressions instead of going forward

[legalandnotease]

It is wild, as they say, that after 9 years, holding that Tony was morally wrong to try to murder Bucky in Civil War is still a controversial position.

Are Tony fans really such a morality void that they have to condone murder and revenge-killing.

[vee-nyx]

to celebrate 8 years since civil war release, let’s review all the ways tony stark was an absolute loser and actually the reason thanos won in infinity war:

created an omnicidal A.I. that the rest of the team warned him against creating

decided that the entire team needed to become government puppets because he felt guilty for creating said A.I. that, once again, NO ONE SUPPORTED HIM IN MAKING

(also the reason bucky was forced back into the fight bc tony caused sokovia and thus caused zemo’s need for revenge but i digress on that pt)

when members of the team who can’t disconnect from their abilities raised concerns about how the accords dehumanized them, he had them arrested or locked them in his tower

bribed (yes, bribed) a child into fighting on his side because he knew he was outmatched

instructed vision to shoot sam out of the sky and then shot sam point-blank when he avoided the blast that would’ve left him severely injured AND LANDED TO HELP THE PERSON IT HIT

wanda on the raft. this is its own point. he let her be restrained and collared like a fucking DOG as if he hadn’t already done enough damage in her life (killing her parents & brother)

proceeded to break the accords THAT HE HELPED WRITE to chase cap across the globe because he felt left out of the action

blamed a brainwashed pow for BEING FORCED to kill the starks AGAINST HIS WILL and proceeded to BLOW HIS ARM OFF and ATTEMPT TO KILL HIM DESPITE KNOWING THAT NONE OF IT WAS HIS CHOICE

mocked natasha’s trauma because she dared to disagree with his methods (he is, in fact, incapable of letting go of his ego for one goddamn second)

even after receiving an apology, refused to contact cap for three years despite KNOWING about the threat of thanos

in conclusion,

[ivysos2001]

Anyone who knows anything about Steve Rogers knows he’s the most stubborn person in the world (especially when it comes to people he cares about) so tbh I really can’t see a reality where he gets to vormir to return the soul stone and calmly accepts that his partner and closest friend of the last eleven years is dead and gone and moves on rather than getting there and doing something reckless and insane to try to get her back

[countessravengrey]

Shout out to ships whose canon relationships were sacrificed in order to give the hero a woman as a prize.

[spidersinsalem]

I'm tired of people saying Steve should've chosen Tony over Bucky or people try and say that Tony and Steve's relationship was better than Steve and Bucky's.

Bucky and Steve had each other since they were kids. They've always had each other's backs. They defended each other, lived together, and fought together. They were everything to each other. Bucky always helped Steve.

Tony and Steve's relationship reminds me of coworkers who don't really like each other. Because that's what they are. Coworkers, friends at best. Tony would actively go out of his way to make fun of Steve in some cases. They were genuinely annoyed with each other's existence from what I've seen.

Tony would never have the relationship with Steve that Steve had with Bucky. Tony, or anybody in general (minus Sam) could ever understand the relationship those two had.

So of course Steve would choose the man who was with him through everything. In his own words, "Even when I had nothing I had Bucky." It was Steve's turn to help bucky. And he was going to help bucky no matter what.

[lavenderpanic]

There is no universe in which Steve went back in time and, instead of freeing Bucky or Isaiah or exposing HYDRA, he chose to marry Peggy and live a quiet life and ignore everything he found out about in the 21st century

[eunuchorn]

People who think that Steve's motivation in Captain America: Civil War was about Bucky so fundamentally misunderstand Steve Rogers as a character that I have to wonder if we actually watched the same movie.

Steve's opposition to the Accords had nothing to do with Bucky. Full stop. Even if Bucky didn't exist, CA:CW would still have played out the exact same way (except the fight with Tony at the end, obviously). Sooner or later, Steve would have run into a situation where he felt compelled to act, but doing so would go against the Accords. In CA:CW, that situation happened to be the kill order on Bucky, but it could have been a totally different situation and the result would still have been the same. Steve would have chosen to act, knowing it went against the Accords, and he would have found himself on the opposite side of the law. Even the ones who actually signed the Accords, i.e team Iron Man, found themselves in that situation eventually:

Natasha chose to go against orders and let Steve and Bucky get away after the airport fight so they could stop the other winter soldiers.

Tony chose to go against Ross's direct orders and went to help Steve in Siberia.

Vision went on the run with Wanda and helped her avoid arrest.

Rhodey went against Ross's direct orders and chose to help Cap and the rest in Infinity War instead of arresting them.

All of them found themselves in situations where they chose to act in violation of the Accords, because to not do so would be morally wrong. Which was Steve's entire point. Legality isn't the same as morality and putting their powers in the hands of political agendas would inevitably cause the Avengers to either have to fight someone who didn't deserve to be fought, or to be kept from fighting someone who should have been stopped. As shown in the examples above.

So Bucky was totally irrelevant to Steve's decision regarding the Accords. Bucky or no Bucky, Steve would have refused to sign, found himself in a situation where he felt morally compelled to act, and ended up with an arrest warrant on his ass. Which, presumably, Tony would have tried to carry out. And boom, the general plot of the movie happens anyway. That's what the civil war was about, not Steve's relationship with Bucky. The fact that it was Bucky's situation that was the catalyst, instead of some other thing, was coincidental (or, rather, it was because it's a Cap movie and personal stakes as a secondary/parallel plot is more narratively compelling).

[steve-rogers-my-beloved]

Even after everything that happened between them, this is how Steve spoke about Tony:

And this is how Tony spoke about (and to) Steve:

After Ultron, after the Accords, after the fight in Siberia, after years of radio silence, Steve still called Tony earth's best defender. He still respected Tony and tried to do right by him.

And what did Tony do? Got in Steve's face and blamed him for everything. And Steve just stood there and took it.

I will never get over it. Steve deserved so much better.

[fizz-pop-thwip]

I like to imagine that the super soldier serum enhances dreams too like it gives the affected really vivid and realistic dreams.

In Steve's case this was just overwhelming because not only was he having crazy intense dreams but in a fresh new array of colour that he'd never experienced previous. And it's extra traumatic on top of all of that when he started having nightmares about his experiences on the field.

Imagine it in Bucky's case too like, Jesus. He would wake up screaming and not even remember why due to the shock therapy he'd been receiving stunting his memory so badly. And when he's finally escaped Hydra and his mind starts healing is when these dreams would affect him the worst. Because now he actually remembers them and how horrible they are and his waking up to screaming finally starts to make sense.

But there would be a nice side to it too.

Steve will always know when Bucky's had a dream about the 30s because Bucky will be stuck to his back, hugging him from behind like they used to back then. And Bucky will know Steve has had one when he wakes up and stretches his back in an arch with a groan as if he still has scoliosis.

All it takes is for Steve to take his first deep breath of the morning, in those big lungs that he never used to have, for him to realise where he is again. Bucky just had to feel the big body in his arms.

They'll both just sit in the moment whenever it occurs because of course they miss it, before the fighting, before the war and the hell they now know. But they still have each other, so they never really lost home. They have each other so they're okay.

[dolche-tejada]

So I wanted to point out the usual nonsenses coming from Tony Stark antis and luckily enough, one of them made a post quoting pretty much most of their popular "arguments" (if I can refer to them as such), so let's take a look at this user’s main points and see how solid they are.

"Let's talk about the horrible shit Tony has done in the MCU"

Please keep in mind the "horrible shit" term all along during your reading.

"MCU Tony has mortared a city full of civilians"

Okay so first point and it literally never happened. USA's government did that to Wanda and Pietro's town, not Tony so I hope it wasn't too painful to pull this nonsense out of your ass.

"Been a complete dick to all of his teammates"

Oh no... he was mean to Steve and his coworkers during their first movie ? What a complete tragedy, what a heartless monster. Please stop the violins, otherwise I might weep.

"Made multiple misogynistic comments about women mainly Natasha (looking at you prima nocta scene)"

Okay so you gave only one example to back this up and it's when he was obviously joking with his friends. Even if that joke may be in very bad taste, that doesn't make him a horrible person like you tried to demonstrate, you're just nitpicking.

"Manipulated a 16 year old into getting into a war with his former teammates"

A) "a war" please don't make me laugh. For most of the only fight Peter take part in, both sides were joking with the other while fighting and weren't even fighting seriously, they were just trying to incapacitate each other. Things only get messy after Tony ordered Peter to step back.

B) Tony didn't manipulate shit. He hid no vital informations to Peter and while bringing a 16 year old to an arrest was indeed a stupid decision, he knew Steve wouldn't harm him and that Peter was strong, competent and equipped enough to deal with him.

"Thought he was completely justified for trying to kill Bucky for something Bucky did unwillingly cuz he was fucking brainwashed"

Why the fuck are you lying ? At no point Tony justified himself for this. He tried during the whole Civil War plot to ease things with Steve and this even after his best friend got disabled for life because Steve escalated the situation at the airport, only to learn then that his friend lied to him all along about his parents' death.

At this point Tony just didn't care anymore and while he was obviously wrong for trying to kill Bucky, it's not like he had no understandable reasons to go after him. Brainwashed or not, most people would try to obliterate their parents' murderer if he stood right in front of them.

"Repeatedly mocked Bruce Banner who was filled with self loathing and even tried to kill himself because of how much he hated being The Hulk"

Firstly he joked with him, not about him. Secondly, Tony was the only one who respected Bruce from the start and never treated him like some ticking bomb ready to explode.

"Created most of the villains in the MCU (Mysterio and Co., Vulture, Aldrich Killian, The Maximoff Twins, Justin Hammer, The Flag-Smashers etc)"

Okay, where do I even begin on that.

Quentin Beck was a narcissistic asshole who got mad because his boss called his invention "B.A.R.F", that and Tony tossing it aside because this tech was way too expansive for its very limited applications. So not Tony's fault if Beck had an ego more fragile than a soap bubble.

Hammer tried to destroy Tony's image and Stark Industries first, so Tony defended himself by revealing he crippled a man by trying to replicate his tech. Hammer fucked around and found out, not Tony's fault if he's an hypocritical idiot.

Concerning the Flag Smashers, the reason they became terrorists wasn't caused by Tony bringing back half of the universe, it was due to the Global Repatriation Council's disastrous resources management.

About Toomes, Tony had no prior knowledge of the contract he signed with NY and even if he did, leaving dangerous alien tech in the hands of random people is quite a moronic idea, as evidenced by what they did with this tech for years. Not Tony's fault if Toomes is delusional and sucks at his job.

Aldrich Killian ? Be fucking real, he became a super-villain just because Tony ignored him, an archetypal greasy-haired nerd who literally drools as he talks, for a pretty chick on New Year's Eve.

Like obviously, when a serial killer stab someone to death, the most logical reaction is to blame those who assemble knives at the factory rather than the murderer himself, makes perfect sense to me.

The Maximoff Twins, my god this argument again... Yeah let's blame the guy who designed and sold weapons to his government rather than, oh I don't know, the fucking guys who used them against civilians ??

"Which also means he's also had some hand in the deaths caused by all these characters"

Literally none of the characters you quoted became super-villains because of him.

"Created Ultron"

He intended to create a security system against other alien invasions and it resulted in a genocidal robot, which only happened because Wanda mindraped him some hours before. Tony is responsible for Ultron's creation, Wanda for what he became.

And I don't want to see anybody whining in my mentions that he already planned to design Ultron prior to her mindraping him, not when she had this fucking grin after seeing Tony taking the Mind Stone with him.

Let alone when she threw this line, later in the movie : I saw Stark’s fear. I knew it would control him, make him self destruct.

She knew letting him take the Stone would cause something awful that might also kill him and she used her powers to make him even more paranoid. She's responsible for Ultron going from "A suit of armor around the world" to "Genocidal Murder Bot", not Tony.

"Thought it was a good idea to have a newly created AI be exposed to The Mind Stone which caused Ultron to kill JARVIS and go rogue

A) Which again wouldn't have happened if Wanda hadn't mindraped him the same day.

B) He didn't consciously exposed Ultron to it, the Mind Stone corrupted the AI on its own, something Tony and Bruce had no way to predict.

C) Still not his fault anyway. Ultron is sentient, he takes his own decisions. Tony being his "father" doesn't change anything to this state of fact.

"Profited off of war by making weapons of mass destruction and selling them"

Something he's spent over a decade to make amend for, notably by closing his weapons division and dedicating his life and resources to helping people and saving the world.

"Bought illegally obtained vibranium stolen directly from Wakanda by Klaue"

False too. All we know is that they met each other at the time Tony was still designing weapons ; and that Klaue told him he was looking for something new. At no point was it implied Tony illegally bought vibranium from him.

"Technically responsible for more vibranium being stolen from Wakanda by Klaue due to Ultron"

This vibranium was already stolen by Klaue when Ultron met him.

"Being responsible for everyone who died in Sokovia's death because he made Ultron"

So following your reasoning, I guess Jeffrey Dahmer's parents are responsible for every murder their son committed from his own free-will ? Did I get that right ?

"Being unwilling to help Steve and the others fix the Blip cuz muh daughter"

My god, how dare he... being against playing with time and rather trying to accept what happened while taking care of his family.

And this when we know screwing up with time can cause world-ending events.

Truly a proof of how horrible of a human being he is, indeed.

Btw I like how you ignored that Tony changed his mind and helped them afterwards.

"Supported The Sokovia Accords which need I remind you all Tony is technically responsible for The Accords being made because A. he's the one who killed Wanda's parents (blah blah blah, a lot of false attributions later...) causing her to kill Crossbones and a building full of people"

Still isn't him who dropped those mortar shells on her house. Just like it's not him who pushed Crossbones to go suicide-bombers, wrote the Sokovia Accords and incited 119 countries to sign them.

"and B. he is literally responsible for what happened to Sokovia BECAUSE HE MADE ULTRON"

Already answered to this shit, let's continue.

"Referring to Wanda as "a weapon of mass destruction" in Civil War"

Lmao because she isn't ? No one forced Wanda to join a terrorist organization, pal. Just like no one pushed her to act as a weapon of mass destruction, by using her powers to send Hulk on a rampage across Johannesburg or by enslaving Westview.

"meanwhile HE is the REASON SHE has her powers in the first place"

Sure, Tony whispered in her ear every night to go serve as a guinea pig for Nazis in order to get her revenge on him. I forgot this part of Wanda's backstory, silly me.

"Falsely imprisoning the heroes that didn't sign The Accords because he's a cunt"

Tony don't have any power or authority to imprison people, and the heroes he stopped got incarcerated because they indeed broke the law, you jackass.

"Being technically responsible for all the deaths caused by Wanda in Wandavision and DSATMOM because if he didn't kill her parents with his mortar..."

I don't think you know what "technically" means.

"then her and Pietro wouldn't have went to Hydra thus not getting their powers from The Mind Stone"

You know what would have actually prevented all the deaths Wanda caused ? Her not willingly joining Nazis to get her powers and going on a murder spree.

"And you are probably thinking "But he sacrificed himself at the end of Endgame !""

To save the whole universe indeed. That and quite a few other things, such as :

Outright refusing to help terrorists and getting tortured as a result.

Risking his life to save Yinsen.

Saving Afghans villagers from terrorists.

Saving Pepper and SHIELD's agents from Obadiah Stane.

Actively saving people on a daily basis, and this for a decade.

Developing a shit ton of armors to protect people more efficiently.

Saving New York and the world overall from Chitauris.

Stopping Killian from taking over the USA.

Curing Pepper from the Extremis treatment.

Designing Veronica with Bruce.

Fighting Hulk to protect Johannesburg.

Saving the world once again, alongside the Avengers.

Awarding promising students with the funds to develop their own projects and inventions.

Granting his tech to Peter and designing for him two suits that allowed him to save many lives.

Saving Stephen's life from Ebony Maw.

Helping the Avengers to travel in other timelines.

"Let me ask you this : If Strange had hold Tony that the only way to defeat Thanos is if Tony sacrificed himself would Tony do it"

It's literally what happened during Endgame, you fucking bozo. What do you think was the meaning of this scene ?

And it's not like it was something new, he was always ready to die for others' sake, right from the start, did you even watched the first Avengers movie ?

No wait, even better : Have you at least watched the beginning of his first solo movie ?

I wasn't expecting anything from Tony antis but sucking that hard at watching a movie is quite impressive ngl.

"Bottom line is MCU Wanda sucks and Tony Stark sucks"

Yeah no shit, that's pretty easy to say when you're making up lies to support your hate boner.

So in conclusion, this dude has no idea of what he's talking about and neither does Tony antis in general for using these bs as arguments.