#stages of negotiation
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When Neil Gaiman said season 2 would be quiet, gentle, and romantic he forgot to add, "for everyone except that pair of bastards, Crowley and Aziraphale."
#season 2 literally said 'and none for the ineffable husbands' ajgkladfjgkd#love that#i love this suffering#is this me going through the five stages of grief? maybe. we're reaching negotiation.#ineffable husbands#good omens#good omens 2#good omens spoilers
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there is something so. intensely frustrating about feeling incapable of showing up for people the way that they want you to
#i wish people understood that it's so hard to be present in their lives and that closeness for me isnt about frequency of contact#but how open we feel during that contact#my brain is such a difficult place to live in it is so loud and so busy all the time#24 hours a day is a constant monologue and argument with myself for everything and it means that i just dont have the capacity to talk to#others most of the time#and like. i know this is so unreasonable. obviously we have to be present in the lives of people that care for us#but it just feels like every day i have to like. get on a stage and perform to every person in my life that cares about me so i can meet the#criteria of being a Good Friend or Good Girlfriend or Good Fan Artist or Good Mutual or Good Server Member#i feel like it is such a blessing to be seen by others as someone to expect things from#but as more people have started to love me it feels like i have to 'go out and perform' more and more and i am very exhausted#i wish i was someone that was easy to love and care for in the way that i am. and i dont mean that self deprecatingly it's just#i know im very hard to care about and love. because i disappear all the time and come back in a big flurry as soon as i get the energy back#and im just feeling it a Lot More lately because im starting to think this isnt going to be a short term thing i have to do before i start#feeling comfortable with a person#this is going to be my whole life#if i get married im going to have to 'go out and perform' and be a good wife and be affectionate and happy and not closed into my own brain#for days#if im going to make friends with colleagues I'll have to go out when they invite me and have to reply ro their texts and i cant just go#silent for weeks while i try to negotiate with my thoughts and then reappear once i make the slightest breakthrough#im very tired and sad. i want companionship but i feel like the kind of person i am is not fair for people who would be my companion#vent post#♡alizeh talks♡
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my mom recently reminded me that when i was in 5th grade my teacher would periodically report to her that i was "sneaky" because i would ask to use the bathroom during class and instead go retrieve things from my locker that i had forgotten to bring with me
and even at the time she thought this was ridiculous and obviously not representative of an intrinsically deceitful nature, fortunately for me. but it's really extra ridiculous looking back on it now as a 28-year-old research professional who has to double back into the room i just left for some combination of gloves, tube rack, ice bucket, or samples at least once a day, a quality absolutely no one cares about or would ever make me justify to another person and which i therefore don't have to tell contrived lies about
#i did eventually develop more capacity to check for an essential list of items before going somewhere less accessible#e.g. if i am going to teach or to a meeting across campus i don't like. forget my laptop#but something that's down the hallway??? for a non-time-bounded activity?#i am probably never going to develop the capacity to have 100% of those things every time i go somewhere and it just. doesn't matter.#my school was less weird about this stuff than a lot of places i hear about and most teachers would e.g. enter negotiations about a way#for me to hand things in that i would actually consistently remember was happening and could show up to. so usually i was fine.#but it just made it more notable that this person thought i was like. an inveterate liar. because i wanted to go get the 1 notebook i forgo#out of the six books and notebooks i was supposed to be carrying around that day#without getting publicly scolded for being too disorganized to adapt to future life stages.#box opener
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i wonder at what point it was that the republic/gar decided to be lax with clone's curfew and things like that. like maybe they said okay everyone back to base by 10 PM sharp every night. and then the clones discovered benders.
#ch posts#i feel like it was like a. they coulnd't even negotiate.#some clone somewhere was just bound to get black out drunk and wake up in somebody's apartment at like noon the next day#rather than constantly try to punish everyone or putting in harsher restrictions they had to concede#and go with a buddy system and curfew stages 😭#star wars#the clone wars#clone trooper
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Prompt #11 // Surrogate
Kirah was currently upside down on a sofa, head dangling near the floor as she stared off into the distance. G'raha was sitting normally across from her, reading a book and ignoring the small, somewhat annoyed, noises she was making. She looked rather ridiculous, hair fanned out messily across the sofa and floor while the tip of her tail flicked back and forth. Eventually she tired of being pointedly ignored and rotated herself back into a normal sitting position. "But why can't you go this meeting?" she asked, containing a conversation they'd been having prior to her sulk. "I don't want to! You're better at talking to people anyway." G'raha looked up from his book and smiled a bit.
"My friend, I have attended many meetings regarding minor administrative details over the course of my time as the Exarch. I rather think I am due a respite from them." Kirah's ears flattened a bit in embarrassment at forgetting this - she'd drawn a distinction between the Crystal Exarch and G'raha Tia in her mind, which not the case. He was, despite the often excited exterior, still the same man who'd essentially led the Crystarium for decades. "I do understand your frustration, however. This particular meeting does not seem to be one that truthfully requires your presence. I would venture that the organizers invited you merely for the cachet of having the Warrior of Light attend." He looked at her with a very mischievous expression, eyes twinkling. "I think it would be best to send Tataru in your place, as this is ostensibly a meeting regarding a budgetary request."
Apparently G'raha read her correspondence with more attention than she did, as Kirah hadn't realized what this was supposed to be about. "That's an excellent idea! She can send my apologies for not attending as financial matters are not my strong point." Her expression brightened. "I think some lunch would be a much better idea. Would you care to join me?"
#ffxiv#ffxivwrite2024#kirah mocorah#short today#had a lot of stuff happen last night and this morning#ugh#anyway!#they're negotiating early stage relationship stuff sort of#silly cattes
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last stage: coming soon next week… probably lmao
#AUUUU AM I MISREADING LXL TWT OR DID THEY ACTUALLY LEAK A LAST STAGE IMAGE OF LXL HOLDING HANDS LMFAO#im. probably misreading it huh… there’s no way loserxloser would hold hands on main… right…?#they’re too dumb to be affectionate on main… right?#I WISH I COULD’VE SEEN IT AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA KTHN DISTRACTION WAS TOO STRONG#IS LAST STAGE GOING TO BE ACTUALLY GOOD NOW LMAO#C R Y I N G IN NIGHT SHIFT NOW I GOTTA NEGOTIATE MY WAY INTO A SIMPLE WORKSTATION TO CATCH THE RELEASE#SEE Y’ALL NEXT WEEK FOR AIYUU CANON (MAYBE?????)
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seeing as the start of the race is at the time the broadcast started all week i thought we might get to see the whole stage today but no... the broadcast will start at 4pm...
#obviously france tv and le tour agreed on a fixed amount of time per day#and for the rest of the week fine i get it#but on a sunday????#nothing is happening on tv#it's the queen stage#your cameras are here and filming anyway#it's so dumb#i don't know if these things are negotiated year by year or not#it was already like this the previous years#so it might be something inherited from the beginning with france tv not wanting to commit too much#but they have to do something about it eventually#it's not le tour if you don't have time for a nap#tdff 2024#tdff#tour de france femmes#if i was the teams i would tell the riders to ride reeeeeaaally slowly for the first hour#just to force them to broadcast longer
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was gonna say smth else but this turned into a vent sorry everyone just ignore. typical weekend post on this blog u know how it is here we go👍
#wild ik so many ppl getting married meanwhile im over here struggling to convince myself my friends even care abt me or want me around#pathetic to admit but i cant even fantasise abt someone loving me bc im too insecure n emotionally unstable#my mind just shoots the idea down like whoa. unrealistic. ur incapable of expressing or receiving affection in any way that matters#no matter how badly u want to... and even if someone did well u wouldnt believe them most of the time#gotta get out of the fucking labyrinth first i couldnt inflict this shit on anyone i cared abt#but it makes me so desperately sad sometimes i dont know how im ever going to get out of this ive been trying for years and years#and im a little better at it snd i dont feel like this all of the time i know it just comes around and itll pass again#but im tired of being in so much emotional pain so frequently. and shouldering it so alone. theres such a disconnect between myself and#others and i dont know how to bridge that i don't know how to stop feeling so isolated and unwanted !!!!!! im trying so hard#it doesnt even bother me w relative strangers in my life like i dont get insecure at all around them i like meeting new ppl#bc theres like. no expectations i guess. like ik they dont care abt me personally and idk them well enough to do that either#and its fun but it doesnt satisfy needs that i have like i need to feel close + connected to ppl i need to care abt them + feel cared for#but as soon as i do start to care abt ppl it gets all tangled and i end up getting rly badly hurt over and over. thru no fault but my own#bc im constantly alienating myself and bc i struggle so much w shit like physical affection which is frustratingly rly critical for me!!!!#it wouldnt fucking matter if i didnt like or want affection ik some ppl are fine without i wish it worked like that for me#but nope instead i have to be constantly messed up over my complete fucking inability to express myself in any form#and ik it makes everyone around me so uncomfortable so it just becomes self reinforcing and eventually they drift and leave me behind#and i just do that over and over and over and every time ill tell myself ill do better ill try harder and itll get easier and someone will#and it happens again and right now im at the stage where the abandonment fear is starting to kick in which is awful n paralysing#and usually a precursor to actually being abandoned ehich is always my own fault bc i start behaving so erratically out of fear or defense#its self fulfilling and im trying. im trying so hard not to let it overwhelm me again and not to start acting out and freaking ppl out#and im coping with it okay i think but just hurts me a lot its all internal my rejection sensitivity is gradually ticking up and up#and argh!!!!!!!!! and some days im okay and some days its like this and i dont know what todo when its like this im so tired and in pain#its not even that bad today tbf. once im done typing this to get it out ill be able to do smth else and distract mysrlf for a bit#and then calling friends later too so exposure therapy innit. but itll be fun and i love them but i will probably also feel very bad after#or even possibly during but thats okay ill still manage fine im not going to let it interfere i dont want it controlling my fucking life#i am going to have a nice time and be okay despite it all. even if i do have to fucking battle this every day forever#and even if it stops me living my life to the extent i want and feeling as ok as i want i just have to come to terms with and be ok w it#and im not going to be!!! a fucking asshole abt it!!! i dont want to hurt anyone else thats the most important thing no matter how i feel#thr rest is all secondary and ik i cant help a few little bumps here and there but trying hardest to keep it separate its not negotiable
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Steve is most likely to end up in a lavender marriage and Tony's most likely to end up in a “married for tax/immigration/inheritance fraud” reasons.
They meet as married men and pine for each other hardcore and are also trying not to read too much into how their interest seems reciprocated and oh nooooo both Immigration/the IRS and the the Church/in-laws/DADT era army dudes or whatever are snooping around at the same time at each of their marriages and they have to be so good at being married at the people they are married to oh noooooo and they other guy doesn’t know why they are suddenly being iced out and maybe they were just imagining things? maybe it’s for the best with all these eyes around on them…
#not to get too real but i love queer people. we see each other and we save each other#i wish i could talk in depth about this lgbtq history panel i went to tonight without doxxing myself#but basically all of these panelists were older gay ppl & one of them won a very monumental court case in the state#and right after introductions one of the other panelists turned to her and thanked her so profusely for the sacrifices she had made#and the work she did to win that case#and that by achieving that win for herself she paved the way for this other panelist to have her own family recognized legally by the state#i don't know i'm not explaining it well but something about knowing and seeing that gratitude in real time. understanding so viscerally tha#so much of our history has happened within one or two lifetimes. to the point that many of the champions of our current rights are alive#today for us to learn from and listen to and THANK#i met two nb ppl through school last year and have since become very close to them#they are the only two ppl on this planet who use my pronouns the way i want them to be used. they switch it up every time and i love them#a little bit more each time i hear them talk about me. it's magical#my childhood best friend told me he liked boys and girls like a month after we first met each other in the fourth grade#he told me there's a word for that; he's bisexual#i think abt how incredible that was a lot. how brave he was to say that and to own that and how long it might have taken me to figure#out that i was the same had he not said it.#anyway all this to say that yes absolutely i love this#steve and tony meet at a military gala. steve's being recognized for his service and tony and his wife were invited by some higher-up who#imagined he could use the event as a way to cozy up to him and earn some good favor before negotiations start on SI's contract renewal#their eyes meet while steve's up on stage. he hates these things. hates being dragged into the spotlight. he feels naked and bare and#vulnerable every time. trapped in enemy territory with no cover. but he sucks it up he kisses his wife on the cheek and she smiles#big and beautiful; perfect like they've run their lines 1000 times over. like they could recite each other's parts by heart#he makes his way to the podium. breathes deep to center himself before he launches into his thankless thank-yous. steve's a terrible liar#but somehow he's made it this far in his career. he can manage for one more night. except#right as he lifts his eyes to speak he sees him. bright eyes burning into his from a shadowed table in the corner. the brass speaking at hi#on his left and a lovely woman who's bored and unimpressed on his right. and him looking directly back at steve#steve's breath catches and he chokes on air. trips on his lines. forgets himself and loses the beat of the scene#he looks down at his notes and ignores them. raises his face to the light and plays himself to be seen by an audience of one.#anon#signed sealed delivered
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Aziraphale: [shows him heaven reformed]
Crowley: You did that?
Aziraphale: Yeah just this morning.
Crowley: Fuck off!
Aziraphale: What?
Crowley: You did not reform heaven this morning!
Aziraphale: Yes I did!
Crowley: You DID NOT reform heaven this morning!
Aziraphale: I DID!
Crowley: I don’t believe you!
#good omens#source: staged#give us season 3!!!!!!!!!!!!! negotiate!!!!!!!#cillian murphy screaming . mp4
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Edward Woodward guest stars as Jack Liskard, Prime Minister of an unspecified African country and the target of multiple assassination attempts, in The Saint: The Persistent Patriots (5.15, ITC, 1967)
#fave spotting#edward woodward#callan#the saint#the persistent patriots#1967#david callan#classic tv#eddy is the named guest star for this episode but actually he wasn't really the household name he would become at this point#in fact this ep was the first Saint episode to air in the uk in 1967 on January 6th‚ setting off a banner year for Woodward that would#be the making of his career. he'd done a few guest spots (Sergeant Cork and Mogul among them) and yes he'd had some stage success#but 67 was his year; around the same time as this Saint appearance he could be seen on the BBC's celebrated drama strand Theatre 625 as the#lead in a multi episode adaptation of Evelyn Waugh's Sword of Honour‚ and almost exactly a month later he'd be making his first screen#appearance as Callan in the Armchair Theatre pilot A Magnum for Schneider‚ the beginning of tv immortality and bigger and better things for#the actor. here he's... well he's serious and he's sullen (two of Ed's strengths as an actor) in a role which.. is FINE on the surface but#absolutely begs some deeper questions. he's the prime minister of an unnamed African country‚ in London to negotiate the independence of#said country from the UK. it's.. a complicated issue (which this single Saint episode absolutely fails to address but I'd have been truly#astonished if it had). i mean yes we're all anti colonialism here of course (even if Simon does seem suspiciously morose about the prospect#of losing another colony in his opening voice over‚ he at least appears to be on Eddy's side through the episode) but there's a kind of#deafening silence throughout this ep: Ed is of course white. his various ministers and other government officials who oppose him are all#also white. the titular 'patriots' who oppose him and make attempts on his life and to prevent the process of independence are all white#the most obvious comparison to be drawn (and presumably the main inspiration for the character) is Rhodesian prime minister Ian Smith#who had led the white minority government of what is now Zimbabwe from 1964 and had been involved in similar negotiations with the british#government (that fell apart in late 65 as Smith's government announced Rhodesia's unilateral independence; the country then became an#unrecognised state subject to economic sanctions that lasted more than a decade). the thing is‚ Smith was a racist piece of shit; the whole#reason those negotiations broke down was because of his refusal to secure black representation in Rhodesia's governance#which makes the complete absence of any black characters in this episode a major red flag. but Ed's character isn't presented as the#villain of the piece; the episode is adamant that the work he's doing is selfless and for the betterment of his country‚ and it isn't as if#Smith was a particularly popular figure in the uk at this point for the ep makers to be painting a positive portrait of him. idk#it's messy. at best tone deaf and at worst.. well. i wish Ed had had a better ep to guest star in that's all im saying
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In case anyone outside my circle of regular folks wonder about my personal life, this has been me since late june.
#ksclawart#rambles#current stage: having to contact my work to negotiate possible return?#though I am not looking forward to it#and before you say 'just quit'#work policy in DK is complicated#for 'reasons'#I could give a long explanation but we'd be here all night#my sister has been a massive help and support#but there's lots of hurdles giving me further anxiety
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was trying to decide whether i want my trio to be a hinge situation, where Wyll and Astarion are with Aja but not with each other, or if i want it to be a full triangle from the get-go
then i realized how funny it would be if it started as an Aja hinge, and they're sort of like "I'd rather not... with him" because they're so different but Aja gets more and more invested in getting them together and they like reluctantly (kicking and screaming for Astarion) try it out "for Aja" because they both care about him
but then oops they catch feelings like absolute idiots
#stuff and things#don't mind me i'm just planning a fic#or fics#we'll see how things go#anyway i think in the beginning#in the negotiation stage#Aja would do like puppy dog eyes#and i can just hear Wyll saying something like#''Your eyes are like sunlight and I can't say no when you turn them on me.''#and if Astarion is there he absolutely rolls his eyes#as if you didn't talk about how my body ''whispers temptation'' and wanting to die with me#''Like you don't know the power of lines my love''#i'm just fully writing his fic in the tags#i'll stop lol
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reading and indi-rpg that actually seems to have math core concepts instead of blindly copying things, and has some crunch in the places that need crunch, but also has the messiest version of baked into the rules ‘failing forward‘ I’ve seen yet
#it is my personal design philosophy that failing forward needs to be non-mechanical#because hot damn that shit is exhausting not always possible#and negotiating FOUR stages of success or failure WITH THE PLAYERS for EVERY ROLE is just a hot mess
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this is just me wanting to ramble for the billionth time, but my key points for gran aus are always 1) seemingly out-of-reach goal the average person would call impossible 2) preferbly about some kind of travel 3) their dad has succeded, or is off doing it, or similiar. putting gran in either a position where they do not meet their dad at all or meet him very, very rarely.
FOR AKIRA its less....specific situation and more feelings based....??? which is why i end up introducing the wizards in aus anyways & why putting akira Solo in things is so difficult for me, because the wizards are very important to akiras overall character(mental). akira prior to meeting them is a lot more timid and avoidant, very 'the days are simply passing by' stuck in a loop of menial tasks. they do enjoy things & they do lov their friends, but they struggle w 'one of many' and supporting their own heart. post-mhyk akira is more confident in themself and does more clearly speak up & take the first step, even if theyre still hesitant. lots more appreciating things & better navigating when things goes wrong, and in general just seeming more secure in themself. which makes aus ssoooooooo difficult cuz 1) akira will always be a Normal Little Guy (aside from the times when i can make their role as sage & sages wizards relevant) 2) my most important akira thoughts r about what they learn from the wizards. which means ill always have to fit a few of them in there, whether thats them being w akira or akira having met them. 'just take them out' I CANTTTT MY HEART WONT ALLOW IT...FREQUENTLY BOUGHT TOGETHER........
aka for gran i just need a travel scenario & for akira i am fighting my brain cuz im making everything harder for myself
#stardust speaking !#reasons why akiras postcanon setting is so easy cuz major of ppl i interact w are modern-ish anyway#or r canons where i feel comfortable keeping akiras isekai shenanigans#OR r gbf ppl and i just crossover cuz gbf DOES that😃😃😃😃😃#meanwhile gran is.......ive mostly been doing gbf stuff recently but its definitely more on the vauge side / crossover side / au side#if this doesnt make sense thats ok this is just how my brain does it#emu is.....similiar to gran.......i need a theme park-ish thing and a promise to a granpa and a girl whos been fighting hard for her stage#for so long until she finally meets ppl who can help her out while theyre chasing their own dreams#in which the akirs tie is that tsukasa nene rui WILL be there. non-negotiable#those r are besties do no separate#there was something more i had in mind but i forgot
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please help me- i used to be pretty smart but i’m having so much trouble grasping the concept of diegetic vs non-diegetic bdsm!
gfkjldghfd okay first of all I'm sorry for the confusion, if you're not finding anything on the phrase it's because I made it up and absolutely nobody but me ever uses it, but I haven't found a better way to express what I'm trying to say so I keep using it. but now you've given me an excuse to ramble on about some shit that is only relevant to me and my deeply inefficient way of talking and by god I'm going to take it.
SO. the way diegetic and non-diegetic are normally used is to talk about music and sound design in movies/tv shows. in case you aren't familiar with that concept, here's a rundown:
diegetic sound is sound that happens within the world of the movie/show and can be acknowledged by the characters, like a song playing on the stereo during a driving scene, or sung on stage in Phantom of the Opera. it's also most other sounds that happen in a movie, like the sounds of traffic in a city scene, or a thunderclap, or a marching band passing by. or one of the three stock horse sounds they use in every movie with a horse in it even though horses don't really vocalize much in real life, but that's beside the point, the horse is supposed to be actually making that noise within the movie's world and the characters can hear it whinnying.
non-diegetic sound is any sound that doesn't exist in the world of the movie/show and can't be perceived by the characters. this includes things like laugh tracks and most soundtrack music. when Duel of Fates plays in Star Wars during the lightsaber fight for dramatic effect, that's non-diegetic. it exists to the audience, but the characters don't know their fight is being backed by sick ass music and, sadly, can't hear it.
the lines can get blurry between the two, you've probably seen the film trope where the clearly non-diegetic music in the title sequence fades out to the same music, now diegetic and playing from the character's car stereo. and then there are things like Phantom of the Opera as mentioned above, where the soundtrack is also part of the plot, but Phantom of the Opera does also have segments of non-diegetic music: the Phantom probably does not have an entire orchestra and some guy with an electric guitar hiding down in his sewer just waiting for someone to break into song, but both of those show up in the songs they sing down there.
now, on to how I apply this to bdsm in fiction.
if I'm referring to diegetic bdsm what I mean is that the bdsm is acknowledged for what it is in-world. the characters themselves are roleplaying whatever scenarios their scenes involve and are operating with knowledge of real life rules/safety practices. if there's cnc depicted, it will be apparent at some point, usually right away, that both characters actually are fully consenting and it's all just a planned scene, and you'll often see on-screen negotiation and aftercare, and elements of the story may involve the kink community wherever the characters are. Love and Leashes is a great example of this, 50 Shades and Bonding are terrible examples of this, but they all feature characters that know they're doing bdsm and are intentional about it.
if I'm talking about non-diegetic bdsm, I'm referring to a story that portrays certain kinks without the direct acknowledgement that the characters are doing bdsm. this would be something like Captive Prince, or Phantom of the Opera again, or the vast majority of bodice ripper type stories where an innocent woman is kidnapped by a pirate king or something and totally doesn't want to be ravished but then it turns out he's so cool and sexy and good at ravishing that she decides she's into it and becomes his pirate consort or whatever it is that happens at the end of those books. the characters don't know they're playing out a cnc or D/s fantasy, and in-universe it's often straight up noncon or dubcon rather than cnc at all. the thing about entirely non-diegetic bdsm is that it's almost always Problematic™ in some way if you're not willing to meet the story where it's at, but as long as you're not judging it by the standards of diegetic bdsm, it's just providing the reader the same thing that a partner in a scene would: the illusion of whatever risk or taboo floats your boat, sometimes to extremes that can't be replicated in real life due to safety, practicality, physics, the law, vampires not being real, etc. it's consensual by default because it's already pretend; the characters are vehicles for the story and not actually people who can be hurt, and the reader chose to pick up the book and is aware that nothing in it is real, so it's all good.
this difference is where people tend to get hung up in the discourse, from what I've observed. which is why I started using this phrasing, because I think it's very crucial to be able to differentiate which one you're talking about if you try to have a conversation with someone about the portrayal of bdsm in media. it would also, frankly, be useful for tagging, because sometimes when you're in the mood for non-diegetic bodice ripper shit you'd call the police over in real life, it can get really annoying to read paragraphs of negotiation and check-ins that break the illusion of the scene and so on, and the opposite can be jarring too.
it's very possible to blur these together the same way Phantom of the Opera blurs its diegetic and non-diegetic music as well. this leaves you even more open to being misunderstood by people reading in bad faith, but it can also be really fun to play with. @not-poignant writes fantastic fanfic, novels, and original serials on ao3 that pull this off really well, if you're okay with some dark shit in your fiction I would highly recommend their work. some of it does get really fucking dark in places though, just like. be advised. read the tags and all that.
but yeah, spontaneous writer plug aside, that's what I mean.
#I found their original stuff while I was researching various waterhorses and their folklore for no reason#because one of the characters in their original work happens to be an each uisge#and then it turned out it ALSO included a lot of figures from welsh folklore in general#so yknow if you happen to have my incredibly specific hyperfixations you'll love it but even if you don't it's great#I didn't mean to bring up phantom of the opera so much it just happens to be very relevant to a lot of my talking points#I haven't actually seen it in years
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