#spn isn't christian

[dirigibleplumbing]

No bc you're so right about supernatural, the take that spn is solely christian also feels to me like it erases all the jewish creators/writers who worked on it

Yeah!!! And like. For one thing. Jewish texts mention that there are other gods than ours, it’s just that we’re supposed to worship only ours. Whereas Christianity says that there is only one. And that is something that is demonstrably untrue in spn!

Not only that, but my argument here isn’t even that spn is Jewish, necessarily. It’s that Christiannatural is just as much of a headcanon as Jupernatural! Because spn isn’t actually Christian!

[quietwingsinthesky]

castiel & uriel as michael & lucifer parallels drives me insane btw

[mybrainproblems]

every day i pretend that i simply do not see posts

every day i am god's bravest little toaster (seeing and ignoring posts)

[420technoblazeit]

tbh dick roman isn't a HORRIBLE antagonist, i just think the decision to move spn away from its original themes of the intersection between christianity and political conservatism in america to idk. talk about consumerism was kind of a downgrade

[this-world-of-beautiful-monsters]

now i'm thinking about how in lis1 we see christianity in the form of soft harmless characters like kate marsh, who is victimized by her faith that she holds onto so desperately, and by the evil nonbelievers who mistreat her for it, and lis2 is all about characters like lisbeth who use their faith to harm others or characters like Jake trying to actively escape it. in lis2 christianity is alternately a violent colonial force designed to shatter queer families/families of color and as the backdrop to acts of divine destruction, divine justice like Daniel's and as a watcher deliberately letting all this happen. i saw this post somewhere about how spn portrays christianity as this ominous omnipresent force in the american landscape and that's how it is for the diaz brothers, it's an uneasy potential explanation for Daniel's powers that turns into a tool of control, it's the cold stars from above, it's the crosses at graves during their most traumatic moments, it's the gap between Esteban's religious art and Lisbeth's even while depictingly seemingly the same god.

ntm that kate contains most of the explicitly christian elements of lis1, but in lis2 christianity seeps into episode after episode the way it does in real american life, constant to the point of virus, popping up in dialogue and imagery and conflict and plot structure, constant themes of belief and sacrifices and justice vs forgiveness. this could even extend how you interpret the endings of the game--the whole point of the supposedly superior "redemption" ending is being saved from sin, washed clean through suffering--so is parting ways, almost the idea of peace achieved through a sacrificial lamb, while lone wolf is the divine punishment for Daniel's hubris. blood brothers is the only ending that breaks from the mold by reveling in sin and refusing to accept a reward later for suffering now, creating a filthy greedy eden on earth instead, falling down south to a country us culture works very hard to demonize as some kind of criminal deviland and refuse to rise back up the coast into whatever cages have been set for them.

while lis1 has all sorts of theories about the supernatural events, ghosts and sci-fi stuff and weirdly appropriated Indigenous mythology, divine origins is one of the few constant explanation for Daniel's power that comes up again and again, as constant as or more than the general themes of superhero comic tropes. and the worst part is you can't prove a negative, you can't prove Daniel isn't divine, because we never get any other explanation for his power the way we never get any explanation for the other ability sets. if we still don't can't be sure Rachel or Max or whatever was behind The Storm, we can't prove god didn't send Daniel to lisbeth, only that said god would be very, very cruel if he had. he's a maybe-divinity trapped in a christian system that too often ignores or distorts its own teachings, or only clings onto the most hateful ones, and of course systems like that are designed to create specific kinds of bloody angels or specific kinds of holy sacrificial lambs, so it's up to Sean to decide which one his brother is going to grow up to be.

[golden-bubblebee]

Bubbles watches SPN pt5? Annotations throughout the episodes.

Season 2

Series 2 breaking my heart right out of the gates huh

Dean Kill count: 4

I mean how even, bestie we have only just reached series 2

Omg sams acting during this scene is phenomonal

The relief on his face oh my lord it made me cry

JOHN YOU FUCKING LYING PIECE OF SHIT OF A DICKWAD

Did John Bitchester trade his life for Deans

Jup. Jup he did

What crazy fucked up child smiles at the clown standing in the garden staring at her in the middle of the night

It got long. Get readmored

GIRL WTF??? STRANGER DANGER?? (Small child let's clown into her house)

more thoughts. now this isn't always the case but very often um hitting someone is a taught behaviour, right. But um Dean hits Sam a couple of times and you can argue that this is because they live quite a violent life. but there's a theme, the things they fight always fight back, it is always violent towards them. but we see Dean hits Sam a couple of times when he's not being physically violent when they re just having an argument so um theory John bichester also beat the shit out of a dean

Jo! You cant be angy at them bc of the sins of the father

Because Dean and Sam are the main characters you get very used to them and their banter and so it becomes very familiar

meaning that now in the next episode when I got to see the intro where Dean is holding hostages?? My first reaction was literally to laugh and go 'oh dean what did you get yourself into this time'

SAMMY IS A CHRISTIAN???

Sometimes you learn things abt a man

Like a daily prayer, this guy?

SAMMY WTF

🎶my daddy shot your daddy in the head🎶

Why do they keep saying 'waste' instead of 'kill'

Dean death count:5

Welp nvm

HOW DID BOBBY KNOW SO QUICK???? (That Sam was possesed, I'm guessing)

I love that in this episode they basically called Bobby over to be their Dad

KATE??

Kate from teenwolf is abt to get killed

Thats great catharsis

And ofcourse the bitch dont die

John shouldve been killed so much sooner so bobby could raise em instead

Oh man I fucking love Madison (werewolf girlie)

I need her to be part of the gang

No

Nuhu

No no no

Im crying

I dont like this episode

Nono (werewolf girlie had to die)

YOU CANT MAKE DEAN CRY

ISNT MY BOY HURTING EBOUGH YET

No wtf

Dont hurt my boys like this

Wtffff

There better be Maddison lives ABO fics out there

I need this guy to have a sweet lovung gf

I mean, he has good puppy dog eyes for suffering and painBut like, the guy smiles real cute too yk

Yk. Them breaking in to get themselves arrestet is very funny and all until you remember that the fbi have a frigging open case on dean

IM SORRY IM IN PAIN AGAIN

You are telling me that Deans biggest wish is that their dad never went demon hunting and thus never got them ended up in this life

Oh my fucking god the mom is going to be alive isnt she

Bunbun (my friend) I dont like this show it hurts me more often than merlin did

Dean hahahah this man has no tact

No im sorry his exitement to mown a lawn is actually heartbtreaking

It shows how severely he lacked normalcy and how deeply he craves it

Another thought

The. Fact. That. John. Is. Still. Dead. In. Deans. Ideal. World.

*War flashbacks* (my fellow AFTG fans will understand)

His impact on the wolrd😭😭😭

No Bunbun help I literally -sobbed-

When dean is talking to johns grave 'why do I have to be the hero. Does mom not deserve her life? Doed sammy not deserve to be happy?'

Sam slaugher count: 1

Gotta love that the literal demon from hell says 'im proud of ya' more often than their own father does

Love that NOBODY is surprised the guy crawled out of hell (john bitchester)

[light-me-on-pyre]

Dean: *passes an old woman with an upside down cross*

Me: red herring red herring red herring there is no way your ghostie or cultist is that obvious this early keep walking man

The boys: "so I think we're dealing with a strigha which date all the way back to ancient Rome-"

Me: so pre-christian? What would a pre-christian entity want with an inverted cross?

I just started watching Supernatural because why not and

The shape shifter episode?

The shape shifter episode.

The entire episode was giving me whumpflies. The premise is a shapeshifter turns into the husbands and boyfriends of the women he tortures and kills and the real guys take the fall for it. And I just

The situation from the women's prospective. The "please don't hurt me any more" to the real husband.

Imagining a whumper who tortures like this but doesn't kill. The victims testimony means the real guy goes to jail for sure even when no cameras. How does he convince her it wasn't really him? Even if it ends with a reveal and exoneration like the episode, how can she trust him? How does he grapple with the fact she believes, with good reason if emotion driven, that he's capable of that?

I just

Oooooh I see why people like this show.

[via-l0ve]

Hay there B) I'm interested in the silly lil 🎃 :D

Fandom Supernatural, of course! Don't be afraid to pair me up with someone who doesn't get as much traction or isn't the main two (of course, if I don't get one of the main two). :)

I'm an avid enjoyer of everything spooky and scary and hunting would definitely be something I'd do if I were in the SPN universe. I feel the loner but necessary alliances type, but I wouldn't be one to get too attached unless I felt a serious spark. Not against working with the same individual more than once, either.

I personally like to imagine my own self-insert as some "earth angel" or spiritually in-tune young woman who can read auras, emotions, feel what one feels, etc etc. I'm what others would call an empath irl (not in the super trippy spiritual way if thats what you don't believe in), I'm just super compassionate and empathetic. I don't know if that part's important, but as rough and violent as I can be (when need be), I'm all for peace and tranquility within one another. I'd always try to solve any tension rather than make it worse. I keep quiet, reserved and to myself unless someone I care about is hurt and needs someone, or if someone tries to start bs with me. I was always that mother friend.

My anger and my envy I experience typically come from not really having a normal childhood even in real life. I never got to experience high school dances, dates, or hell even an irl high school to begin with. Just homeschooling, barely even any real irl friends or social cues. I envy everyone who gets anything and everything they've ever wanted.

My taste in overall men (and women) can be kind of unstable. I'll love the hero, but I'll also fall hard for the villain. My red flag is I think I can ease the villain's heart. No matter how clingy, or obsessive, or dickish they are. I'm also kind of obsessed (shhhh don't tell anyone...)

My hair is long, wavy and dirty blonde. My eyes are kind of sad, down turned like Blue Diamond's from SU. I like to dress in many different styles, if I'm feeling it but typically I go for something simple. Long, flowy skirts, blazers, t-shirts, flannels. If I'm feeling nice, a pretty white dress with pearl headbands. Or I'll try to look like a school girl coming home from a long, tiring day from dealing with her bitchy teachers and even bitchier classmates. Either light or dark, it depends on the mood. I'm also Christian.

I'm obsessed with true crime, demonology, mythology, and other spooky stuffs. I also enjoy writing, reading fanfics/novels, the occasional sketching and drawing, and I also wanna look into making custom dolls. I've looked into white magic before, attempted it a few times in the past. I'm a huge music fanatic, all genres (yes, even country...), but I typically listen to shoegaze, noise, metal, rock, and goregrind. Anything with screaming, distorted vocals, distorted/soft guitar, or no vocals at all, basically. (Examples being Duster, Deftones, Ghostemane, Giles Corey, Have A Nice Life, In This Moment, Birthday Massacre, etc)

I'm into some pretty dark shows and movies. I'm not in many fandoms, I don't see my own SPN self in many either, but I've seen a fair share of fucked up films. A Serbian Film, Dog Tooth, Lolita, The Handmaid's Tale (mainly the show), Miss Violence -- I watch them for comfort from my own trauma, and I see myself doing the exact same thing in SPN. My twisted past with ex boyfriends and abusive family members are probably what's gotten me head over heels, reeling over villainous characters that could snap me in half if they wanted.

I just want to be loved.

Anyways, I hope that's enough for you! I kind of overshared, but I hope it's alright! TL;DR I just want someone, anyone to love me for who I am and enjoy some of my hobbies. Take all the time you need, I understand your box might be full as hell.

first of all i love you so much and you absolutely deserve to be loved and worshipped because you’re beautiful and worthy of love and acceptance and care <3 (if you ever want to talk more my inbox is always open)

with that being said:

i ship you with cas :)

i know you said to not be shy to ship you with someone who isn’t the orig/main few, but i got heavy castiel vibes from you <3333

i think that he’s be drawn into your quiet but badass energy. how you want to diffuse traumas or tension before it even happens, but he also sees you on hunts as such a badass demon killing person. he also finds it fascinating how empathetic you are.

he loves all of your hobbies and often will sit next to you while you write or read. when you mention custom dolls he will freak out and absolutely ADORES watching the process.

he thinks you’re gorgeous. your blue eyes match his and your hair mesmerized him.

i also think that you guys can bond over traumas. while you have childhood based and family/ex-lover trauma, castiel definitely holds some trauma in thinking he’s not good enough or things from the other angels in heaven.

you guys balance eachother out. you teach him so much and you guys have the cutest little dates, the type to be up until 4am having deep conversations.

castiel also isn’t a rat and you deserve someone who isn’t a rat <33

[godsofhumanity]

SUPERNATURAL 5.19 “Hammer of the Gods” | REVIEW

i said i'd be reviewing SPN episodes, hee hee so here's the next.

OVERVIEW: Pagan gods hold a meeting to determine how they will respond to the Christian Apocalypse.

RATING: 7/10. i liked it!!!! there's only so many myth references you can cram into 45 minutes of screen-time, but i liked it tbh. there isn't much media with different myths interacting with each other, so i think this was pretty good!

AVAILABLE AT: again, idk where u can watch this for free sorry. if you have Prime or Binge, or maybe if u live in the US u can watch it on the CW or something

previous episode // all episodes // next episode

if you haven’t seen spn and intend to watch, do not read below unless you want spoilers!!!!!!

THINGS I LIKED / FACTS:

Mercury portrayal!!!!!!!!!!!!! the actor looked mischievous just like you'd imagine Mercury to be.

i liked the little nods to his speed with him typing on the computer extremely fast and nicking Dean's neck without being seen.

also, i think it's immensely suitable that Mercury was in charge of the hotel since he's the god of commerce (hotel is great for business!), travellers (travellers will stay at a hotel), messages (he's communicating with different gods to bring them together under one roof), and trickery (since the gods are conspiring to trick Lucifer).

Kali- disclaimer; idk much or really anything about hindu mythology, but Kali is the goddess of time, doomsday, and death according to Wikipedia..

this suits her character pretty well since she's appearing at Doomsday (the Christian Apocalypse but still)... and also she had a necklace around her neck that i think looked a little like a head of some sort? and a skull chain around her waist! i think this is a nod to the chain of heads that she's usually depicted with.

Elysian Fields as the hotel name. Elysium is not part of the Underworld, but usually considered a separate place entirely, and was pretty exclusive-- only certain heroes and righteous mortals specially chosen by the gods could enter Elysium, and this is paralleled on the show because only certain people enter the hotel-- Dean and Sam are intentionally let in to the place so the gods can hold them hostage.

funny Ganesh elephant moment- not strictly accurate because im pretty sure Ganesh just has the head of an elephant but isn't an elephant himself..?

the gods poking fun at their myths lmfaooooo and forgetting their own ages.

Baldur and "Loki" tensionnnnnn!!!!!!!!!!! i know it's not actually Loki, but yeah i liked it. nice nod to Loki being the cause of Baldur's death.

the whole concept of "what happens to the other gods during one team's end of days"... it's such an intriguing idea, and i honestly like the way SPN dealt with it.. all the gods at odds with each other, undermining each other's apocalypse beliefs.. having to team up together to deal with another apocalypse. but i think the team of gods they chose was strange.

THINGS I DIDN'T LIKE / DISAGREED WITH:

Odin looked like an Odin, but he had BOTH eyes??? i feel like it would have been so easy to make Odin more distinct by giving him an eyepatch, or a monocle, or maybe 2 different coloured eyes or something!! just something about his eyes because that's his most distinct feature. and a hat!

Baldur. handsome sure, but i'm hesitant about his role here. Baldur is the guy whom everyone loves, so for him to be having a romance with Kali who is kind of violence and the opposite of Baldur seems strange and out of place. i think Baldur could have been replaced by Tyr-- still not as mainstream as "Thor" but closer to accuracy?

also. Baldur should be in Hel so i'm not sure how he got out and how he's walking around free-spirited. it's a pretty essential part of his myth tbh.

also we know Ragnarok hasn't taken place yet to free Baldur from Hel because Odin himself says "lol the apocalypse hasn't started yet" and he makes a joke about getting eaten by Fenrir.

the gods having humans as their "meal". honestly i don't think i've heard of gods consuming mortals as a snack-- usually it's taboo for the gods to eat mortals, see Demeter and Pelops. so i thought this was kinda strange.. i know it's just a gore factor for the show but i meannnn really?

minor thing really, but Kali's shirt was red? i think it would've been a better nod if it was blue because like she's usually depicted blue.

[dirigibleplumbing]

I have 2 takes I'm gonna start posting about soon that some following me may not want to see or engage with. they are:

it's okay to still enjoy the Harry Potter books, just stop giving JKR money

and

Supernatural really isn't a "Christian" show, Chuck isn't the "Christian" god, and the assumption that are they are is a glaring example of cultural Christianity

please consider unfollowing me or blocking relevant tags if you don't want to see these posts.

good-faith comments and asks about these topics are welcome

[scoobydoodean]

The only issue I've ever had with DeanLisa is that it reads too much to me like the "I've met you only a handful of times and I wanna spend the rest of my life with you" ala Disney Princess + Prince trope, and I just can't stand that trope. That's just a personal preference though

But I've never had a problem with Lisa herself - I think she's really fucking cool actually, and that she really did care about Dean. I think they both were reaching for an ideal, a dream, and they found solace in each other, but the circumstances that led them together (the second/third/fourth) time were not conducive to a lasting relationship.

I think it's more biphobic to be super anti DeanLisa tbh? (as a concept, not saying you have to ship them). Bc it's denying that part of Dean, like people really wanna dive deep into Dean's queerness in the way he interacts with men, but it's incredibly biphobic to then deny a relationship he had with a woman that meant a lot to him. That relationship doesn't take away from his queerness, he's still bi even while he's with a woman. Sure, I can see the argument behind comp cishet relationships and how that's bi/homophobic, but I think in this situation it's more nuanced than that? There's so many factors that lead into Dean going to Lisa (mainly feeling completely abandoned by everyone..which...he more-or-less was, be it on purpose (Cas) or not (Sam)) after such incredible trauma, he's obviously going to go to someone who he can find comfort in, that he already knows, who cares for him and he cares for back...I don't think that's comp cishet

I guess I lived in my own little SPN bubble bc I had no idea people hated her so much until fairly recently, as I started seeing posts and stumbling upon old fics where she's written as a nasty bitch for NO good reason

I appreciate your thoughts on them, tbh bc I feel like I don't ever see people talk about them or it's in a very disparaging way

Yeah I agree with you. I have no problem with people just saying "I don't like it. It just isn't my thing. It's boring, it doesn't appeal to me, I do not vibe with it, I like another ship better, he should have gone to Cassie instead, I don't think the storyline ever should have been done because of x,y, z" etc. What is sooo weird to me is people who can't live with just saying they don't like it and have to make the fact that they don't like it some kind of moral issue and/or talk about it in a way that ends up just displaying their own (internalized or externalized) biphobia and misogyny (edit: and even ableism—because I have seen that one quite a bit too).

I have seen people say:

Lisa and Dean are both used up because they've had so much sex with other people and therefore the relationship is nothing more than an expression of their mutually low standards, where simultaneously neither of them are good enough for the other because they have had too much sex. (Which was then back tracked to Dean being the only one who is all used up from all the sex he has had, because we wouldn't want to be misogynists).

Dean and Lisa's relationship is conservative christian (as someone raised in a conservative christian home, I can assure you that is not the case).

Dean and Lisa is a heteronormative relationship and is therefore bad. That is... not only very debatable, but based on what? Why? What is so "heteronormative" about it? I'll pay someone $50 if they can tell me without being biphobic, homophobic, or misogynist, or basically line for line describing a post-canon or AU destiel fic they’ve recced before just replacing Lisa with Cas. (Having a home is heteronormative? Parenting a child? Living together? What is it? I can never get a straight (heh) answer.)

Dean/Lisa is biphobic. Again... why? Because Dean is with a woman? Do... do we know what bisexual means? Are we sure?? Because it sounds like—frankly—the queer community yet again being one of the more biphobic communities around, and saying bi people are only interesting and acceptable when they are in same sex romances, and otherwise they are heteronormative and bad and wrong and boring. Which is a great thing to make bi people on the internet (whether you count yourself among them or not) read. Like. I think the way we interpret many characters who are not explicitly and openly bisexual as bisexual has also in some sense poisoned people into treating bi-ness as like... an exciting accessory, instead of a sexuality. Which is again—not how bisexuality works, but is how people on Tumblr often seem to treat bisexuality when they act like it is an accessory being thrown on or taken off by a character. "Well Dean isn't wearing his bisexuality accessory right now since he's in a 'het' romance, so he is not shiny enough and I am not interested in him". It's just fucking weird and it makes me uncomfortable.

Also, I don't know why this comes as a shock to some people, but calling something "het" is not inherently an argument proving that thing is bad and wrong, and suggesting that it is is also fucking weird.

Edit: Another one I forgot—"Dean is messed up/'damaged' therefore Lisa should never have allowed him in her home". Because we think people with PTSD shouldn't be shown kindness by people who don't have PTSD, I guess, and people without PTSD should avoid people who have PTSD at all costs.

Like. It is no secret that I utterly despise Sam/Amelia. But you know what I don't do? I don't go around calling it heteronormative, or applying my weird conservative christian leftovers about sexual purity to the relationship, or saying Sam was too messed up in the head and a "normal" woman never should have allowed someone so "damaged" to be in her life, in order to shout from the roof tops how "problematic" it is for them to be together. I just say "I don't like it because Amelia is not an enjoyable character to me. I find her extremely awkward and uncomfortable and I don't like the way she talks to Sam and don't understand the romance."

[catsconflictscopicsandchamomile]

Serious Post For Once. MAJOR trigger warning for some fully-mask-off discussions of (mostly my own internal) racism, generally Actually Talking Abt Real Shit For Once.

ok, so..hm

I don't have the energy to try to write this academically rn so I'm just going to word-vomit it out.

I am really having....Feelings... about the characters of Grendel and Grendel's Mother, specifically re: race and BIPOC identities.

I personally am white as the driven snow (though Jewish, whatever that counts for in 2023. still 'wtf' abt all that personally).

I have been putting my heart and soul into a story centering modern/reincarnated versions of Grendel and Grendel's Mother for about three years now. they are some form of shapeshifter, usually take animalistic/monstrous/hybrid forms, often eat humans, and are canonically descended from Cain (kinda. its complicated but basically they are). they are also both EXTREMELY white.

I'd actually made this choice with an intentional eye on race, way back when this story started outgrowing its roots as a supernatural fanfiction (please dont ask). no longer limited to spn's Genuinely Concerningly White Actor Pool, I had to really look at these characters re: race and decide what I was doing going forward. At the time, I was already looking into Maria Dahvana Headley's "The Mere Wife", and its centering of race both intrigued and really repelled me. At first, the (lbr) graphic depictions of how this story's Grendel's nonwhiteness informs the violence against him shocked me in the way I think they were "supposed" to, and made me really take a step back and reconsider the entire narrative of Beowulf (though to b clear I was already pro-Grendel's side of things at this point) in terms of how closely it matched more modern treatments of BIPOC and specifically young men.

...and then I went "wait. isn't Maria Dahvana Headley white???"

after a LOT of research failed to provide any contradicting evidence, my self-reflection and serious though turned to genuine strong disgust. It felt, and still feels, VERY weird that a white woman with (afaik) white kids wrote a lot of the sentiments in this novel. if you've read it, you know the ones that I mean.

I attempted to research racial themes re: Grendel further and ended up in a rabbit hole about Cain, Ham, Mormons & Bigfoot (seriously.) and all of this, along with some other research, eventually led to the following conclusions:

narratives placing Grendel and His Mother as victims of racialized violence/heroic or sympathetic figures in a racially- and/or socially-conscious work are both amazing and necessary

not if they're written by white people. there's probably some exceptions but honestly that's just weird and makes my hair stand up(derogatory).

I am White People. I should not try to do this.

given the association (certain modern media almost bafflingly aside) between Cain/Ham and justifications for SLAVERY, I, a white author, should not only NOT make these characters BIPOC, but should lean pretty damn hard into their whiteness- it's not "reclaiming" exactly, it's like... "reclaiming"(derogatory)(ironic)

given the current political movements around Viking Shit, and SPECIFICALLY pseudopagan, christian-based anglo-saxon warrior male social orders, the figures of Grendel & His Mother can and maybe even SHOULD serve as symbols of active and violent resistance from within the communities (White As Shit) that the current alt-right claims to represent.

given ALL of that, the best way for me to write these characters is how I'm currently writing them- very white, very monstrous, would probably state their race as "fae" if asked and "white" and/or "european" if specified for human racial terms, explicitly monstrous, symbolic of both (my own) queer/disabled/neurodivergent rage, feeling of incompatibility with most/all friend groups or communities, as well as a larger theme of a "KILL ALL VIKINGS" fantasy enabled by them being Big Scary Creature Beasts.

However... its been a few years. I've been drowing myself in Anglo-Saxon Everything but fully ignoring racial and diversity issues, a huge part of this admittedly being irl stressors in my life that, shall we say, EXTREMELY reduced my capacity for basic empathy & Current Events Awareness to a degree that I'm only starting to repair. as part of this repair, I'm really questioning this. I've read some super fascinating stuff about Grendel & race recently, and yet.

...and yet

I can't shake the feeling that

as a white author, making this a race-centric narrative isn't just not my job/not my turft, its actually kinda pretty racist

however, refusing to write these characters for that reason then involves (at least internally) saying that "this kind of archetype" is ONLY "meant" to be written by BIPOC ppl, because "they're the only ones who really Get The Experience", and HOO BOY. THAT IS RACIST. that is me doing a great big racism right there.

...so what do I do? I really love my take on these characters. I've grown really attached to them. It seems like everything is actually pretty well in order for me in terms of why I made the choices I did- I've looked at the other things I could have done with these themes and they're Extremely Problematic At Best...

but I can't shake the feeling that I'm still missing something, fucking up somehow.

I'd genuinely welcome discussion on this, I'm not going to be offended or defensive about ANYTHING, legit if you want to tear this whole post apart via critique re: art or just my own biases, please do. I'm just trying to figure this shit out.

and possibly overthinking it. that is also definitely a possiblity.

*to be clear I don't hate or dislike Headley. I just don't GET her. I'm not sure WHAT to think.

[mathmusicreading]

My knowledge of Supernatural comes from gleanings from Tumblr and fics, slowly working my way through some SPN podcasts (basically I'm still in the early seasons, with some listening regarding Season 15), and checking out wiki pages, so I'm sure that skews my thoughts on Supernatural.

In-universe, Chuck refers to Castiel as the Angel of Thursday and we don't get exploration of his identity as Shield of God or Angel of Solitude and Tears. Angel of Thursday to angels must mean Angel of The Fourth Day of The Week, rather than meaning Angel of Thursday, Angel of Thor's Day the way it does to me as an English speaker, and I'm having thoughts.

I don't know how disrespectful it is to think of Norse mythology as just being mythology and not religion in the modern day, and that's not even taking into account Christianity creating the term "pagan" and having such a large, purposeful impact replacing and stamping out other religions. But as someone for whom that's not my religion, my feelings on the archangel Gabriel being Loki are generally acceptance because it isn't personal for me, because it's just fiction and also I believe in fiction being able to play around and express different things, and because to my ignorant self who thinks of Odin and Thor as being the most important Norse gods, it was respectful because it wasn't the furthest step over the line and immediately raising flags of sacrilege and blasphemy. So with those immediate thoughts about Gabriel and Loki, it's just a neat coincidence to me that Castiel has a tangential connection to a Norse god too in Thor because of Thursday.

But I like thinking about etymology and identity, and I've read that in real life some consider Castiel an archangel (but that was like the sum total information I found), so that makes it more fitting to me that Castiel's connection is with a greater Norse god, and also more appropriate for me to want to take Fourth Day of The Week as Fourth Day of Creation because of its greater significance and religious weight. In Christianity, the Fourth Day of Creation is the day God created the Sun, the Moon, and the stars, and I really like the idea of connecting Castiel to that because it's so celestial; it's poetic to me because of his identity as an angel and it's romantic to me because it's the Sun, the Moon, and the stars. My etymology and identity loving self should really try to read about the alternate interpretations of Castiel as an archangel and with the Cassiel and Qafsiel spellings.

It's interesting how meaning is taken not just from names, but from stories and specifically how stories are told. Gabriel first appears on Supernatural as an unidentified trickster god/demigod, and is referred to as "the trickster". Grammatically, in-universe the other characters mean " the" as in "the one we're dealing with". But the way storytelling and audience interpretation work, the weight of his role as a returning character and the lack of other trickster gods ever appearing on the show (Mercury is described without the trickster title, and for this I'm counting Loki as one with Gabriel) make it like "The Trickster", like he's the paragon of trickster gods, the most significant and powerful one.

If you just know that and that he's also Loki, that's like a compliment to Loki and to Norse religion/mythology. But there's more to how the storytelling affects the evolution and interpretation of the character. Gabriel's appearance as an anonymous trickster is in Seasons 2 and 3, and the revelation of his identity as the archangel Gabriel is in Season 5. That reveal without further explanation or backstory creates the assumption that Gabriel either created a random trickster identity, created that particular trickster god's identity and that trickster god is invalid, or stole a trickster god's identity (possibly having killed that trickster god)--and the assumption that all trickster gods are lesser to him and lesser to Christianity. To be fair trickster gods were already described as being like demigods, but still it hits different. These are kind of insulting to Loki.

Specifically, Gabriel's (archangel) identity is revealed in early/mid Season 5 and he's identified as Loki, specifically, as a trickster god in late Season 5 and then in Season 13 actual Loki appears and it's revealed how Gabriel came to take on his identity. Having Gabriel's trickster persona identified as Loki without further explanation or backstory for so long, that storytelling leaned into the audience interpretation that Loki might be invalid as a Norse god or that Gabriel might have harmed him when stealing his identity. That origin story finally comes out and it turns out that Gabriel helped Loki and was allowed to take on his identity with Loki's permission and to mutual benefit, but still the (lack of) storytelling up to that reveal is disrespectful to Loki. The actual storyline with Loki also doesn't treat him great.

But it's not just about how the storytelling's pacing influenced audience interpretation of Loki, it's about how it influenced the audience's interpretation of Gabriel. For so long the audience knew Gabriel with Loki's face and characteristics, and so that's how he is to the fandom. I could just be wrong because my Season 13 knowledge is so sketchy, and I don't really seek out Gabriel content so probably I just haven't encountered other people asking these questions and posing these ideas: Is Gabriel actually like Loki's trickster persona? Did Season 13 establish that that coincidentally helped with Gabriel taking on Loki's persona? Or does fandom just run with that characterization because that's so much of how they know and like Gabriel pre-Season 13 and they know so little of authentic Gabriel even post-Season 13? Where are the posts reconciling headcanon by saying Loki was a good identity to fake because Gabriel already had a trickster-like personality and liked sweets, or that Gabriel became the mask? I love the idea that Castiel came to identify with Jimmy Novak's appearance as his vessel as his own human appearance, but what about Gabriel? He doesn't even have his vessel's appearance to latch onto and identify with; he's been using Loki's visage the whole time. What are Gabriel's feelings on owning Loki's appearance as his own when he's always kept it packaged with acting like Loki (unlike other angels who separate appearing as their vessels and still being themselves) and given his not modifying it as the secret of his identity has come out and there's been less point keeping up the ruse? (Admittedly, when his true identity as Gabriel was revealed, it was on a small scale and: there was still worth in not dropping the Loki persona for his own sake, he needed to preserve appearances for Loki's sake in their mutually beneficial deal, and until he killed Loki he had the option of fully taking on Loki's identity. (In fact, he still had that option after killing Loki, it just wouldn't work with the people who knew he killed Loki.))

[cowboycostume]

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I tagged 1,931 of my posts in 2022

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#i know what you did last summer because it's fucked up and you kind of get the backstory of the season as well as understand who these guys

My Top Posts in 2022:

#5

his. okay look. dean's first resort was telling her to imagine the guy had boobs. but he says it like its a question - and the things is OBVIOUSLY his problem isn't that he doesn't know how to flirt with men. he just doesn't know how to tell someone who isn't attracted to men how to flirt with them. it IS a question - he literally doesn't know what to tell her and when that doesn't work his immediate next step isn't to like, give some pointers. no he just. does it for her.

338 notes - Posted January 21, 2022

#4

See the full post

423 notes - Posted March 9, 2022

#3

crying the young picture has a jensenacklestans.com watermark... this man googled himself and slapped it in an instagram collage

429 notes - Posted January 24, 2022

#2

with your help, we can ensure no one casts jared leto in a film again

894 notes - Posted June 5, 2022

My #1 post of 2022

dni if you: run a discord server, own printed fanfiction, are in a relationship, question your sexuality and/or gender, gave your dog a people name, call strangers babe or sweetheart, grew up in a shame-based christian religion, read fic for the plot, can recite whole monologues from lord of the rings, like music from artists with under 2k monthly listens, take your tea with cream and sugar, could eat chicken fingers five times a week, forget to eat breakfast, have bangs, drive stick, or don't understand international postage rates

1,792 notes - Posted March 13, 2022

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[theprivatearchives]

19th April 2022 

Watching "Dream A Little Dream of Me" SPN S3 E10

I love the variety sets. It's probably one of my favourite things about SPN that they can have such a wide and interesting variety of episode styles and sets and in this episode there are a strong handful of gorgeous, interesting settings! Really makes an episode pop.

Thinking about how Dean meets himself in his dream, makes me think... In reality, most of the time, we are the only person to know ourselves that clearly and I can totally see a real-life model for the situation of Dean verbally and emotionally and mentally abusing himself, because he knows. He knows all the deep fears and feelings of failure that he has. He knows the things he hates about himself and he's just speaking them out loud. In normal life, isn't this just so common? When you're in a spot of bad mental health, your brain can be the cruelest thing. You can live with regrets and fears and feelings of failure for so long. Some even hold them for their entire lives.

One last observation... I keep thinking at the back of my mind, about the way they keep talking about how Dean is going to Hell and how they have to do something to save him. And it casts an odd shadow on the belief Biblical Christianity holds that all people are heading to eternal life in Hell after death if they don't recieve salvation. In SPN they talk about 'finding a way to save Dean' and in reality Christians' message is exactly that. Salvation from Hellfire through the cross. It's rather interesting. It just seems odd to hear people (characters) talk so seriously about trying to escape such an end when I am far more used to people ignoring the question alltogether or ridiculing such a "notion" or "belief." It would be really nice if your average person could take such a serious look at their eternal destination, to be honest. Funny how a non-godly, very much non-Christian TV show gets things so much more right than real, normal people sometimes.

----

Just finished S3 E11 "Mystery Spot"

Just gonna say that this was probably the most attractive I've seen Sam in a full episode lol

Also this one messed with my head. Ew.

But I do enjoy seeing the Trickster lol and I'd be sad if he ever did get killed. Far as I know, he sticks around for a long, long time though hehe.

----

Watched S3 E12 "Jus in Bello"

Good, solid episode. Nothing particularly note-worthy, except for the big fight with the demon horde. That was an epic finish.

Oh, and I liked the moment when the bad-guy/good-guys finally realised that Sam and Dean weren't (well, not techinally but anyway...) criminals and that the demon thing was real and all. That was such a satisfying turn-around. There wasn't the standard "I can't believe this, oh my gosh" thing. At least the cop that had been tracking them would have known enough about what they were about to not need a bunch of filling in and the others just went along with it. It was an interesting and well-achieved change in character dynamics.

[bradycore]

obviously if you compare the first few seasons to the last, there's gonna be a difference in focus/tone, the worldbuilding will have adjusted focus. AND obviously biblical cosmology was intended from the start to be central to the plot. i cant complain about those things. plus it's not like paganism was treated well from the start. but the shift away from the show's folkloric foundation was unnecessarily early and harsh. as soon as heaven came fully into play we were bound to the parameters of its mythos.

like, sam and dean used to casually throw together folk magic and witchcraft when they needed it, but then it became defined as demonic. methods of protection based in tradition like cat's eye shells, devil's shoestring, goofer dust, etc were only mentioned once or twice and then forgotten, while salt and pentagrams lost traditional connotations and were redefined as weapons against christian demons. even christian folklore like exorcisms, holy water, the cross was set to the backburner in favor of weapons made by angels and demons to kill angels and demons.

and the difference in power! angels themselves had started out as gritty and relatively grounded, yes meant to be powerful but reasonably so, and still impressively suited to spn's down-to-earth tone, but then thrown in the middle of s5 was an episode that introduced a dozen ancient, powerful, pagan gods for the sole purpose of showing that an angel could kill them all by snapping his fingers. and in s1 pagan gods were tied to nature and combated by interacting with nature, but then it turned out they could just be killed forever if a human stabbed them with the right thing, and if one of them wasn't killed forever it was because he was secretly an angel. because they're so much more powerful than literally everything else that they redefine the rules of spn's own framework.

no aspect of paganism is allowed to be authentic, because only god is authentic; magic isn't allowed to be folk tradition, because it's usually from hell; folk traditions aren't allowed to be as powerful as celestial and demonic weaponry, because they're not celestial and demonic; no other being is allowed to be as powerful as biblical beings, because god made it so. and everything else in the show has to come back to this--to heaven and hell, angels and demons, to them being the most powerful aspects of the universe, and every other aspect having to play by their rules. some of this is tied to s15's god-as-horror which is fun and cool, but ultimately these felt like careless changes in tone and worldbuilding. how much disregard do you have to have for your show's own roots.

actually a crime how a show that started out embodying americana and folk horror ended up treating pagan deities. what do you mean the christian god CREATED THEM as SCAPEGOATS