godsofhumanity

[godsofhumanity]

BOOK I | HOMER'S ODYSSEY | LITERATURE REVIEW

SUMMARY: The Olympian gods decide that it's finally time for Odysseus to be freed from Calypso's island where the latter wishes to make Odysseus her husband against his will. Meanwhile, Athena visits Odysseus' son Telemachus in Ithaca and encourages him to first assemble the men of Ithaca and complain about the suitors who plague his house trying to woo his mother Penelope, and second, to prepare himself to travel to Pylos and Sparta in aid of his missing father.

all books / next book

before i break down the chapter, i wanted to make a note about Samuel Butler's translation and some notes he himself gives in his preface.

Butler's translation is in prose which, i think, is easier to read than the original poetic form of the book. this obviously means that some parts of the original translation are lost, but i think that in other places, the prose probably adds to the work. anyhow. if you've read my iliad review, then you know that i am not really concerned with an analysis of the language structure and other technicalities of the Odyssey, but rather, the symbolism and motifs of the text, which don't necessarily require a direct poetic translation to be appreciated.

secondly. i think it's important to understand the geographical context of the Odyssey as it helps us to better appreciate certain character motivations as well as the tediousness of Odysseus' journey.

Butler suggests that the Odyssey revolves around Trapani, Sicily and not actually Ithaca. however, i want to say that that theory doesn't really make sense because Trapani, originally formed during the Bronze Age, was held under Elymian rule (a people originally from Troy in modern-day Turkey) until the First Punic War in the 3rd century BC when the Roman Empire took over.

the Odyssey, likely compiled into a standardised, cohesive narrative by Homer after several prior years of being told as an oral tradition, is suggested to have been formed in the 8th century BC, which is,, obviously, much earlier than the First Punic War.

the map below shows the areas of Greek expansion. note that Trapani sits on the left side of Sicily, and is marked in yellow to show that it wasn't colonised by the Greeks but remained under Elymian rule until the Romans came in. what this means is that it's quite unlikely Homer would have seen Trapani, and even though many of the geographical landmarks described in the Odyssey seem to match with Trapani's landscape, for the remainder of this review, we'll just accept the general idea that modern-day Ithaca, Greece is Odysseus' Ithaca.

so, in saying that, below is a map of Odysseus' journey,, and then below that, a modern map of the world so you can orient yourself.

there was another interesting note by Butler that the Odyssey was actually written by a woman living in Trapani, but i've already gone on a tangent and i haven't even started!!!!!!! so let me skip that and you can look into it on your own time if you're curious :)

now, the last time we heard from Odysseus was during the funeral games for Patroclus... we don't actually read about the sacking of the Troy or Odysseus killing Astyanax or anything like that.. it ends with Hector's funeral and that's it.

annoyingly, the Odyssey continues its "let's-start-in-the-middle-of-the-story" style from the Iliad (the name for this technique is in medias res btw!), and Book I begins with Homer recounting, very briefly, about Odysseus having already left Troy and becoming trapped on Ogygia with Calypso.

then, we come to a familiar scene of the gods meeting together and discussing humans. something i find very interesting is that, on the discussion of men's folly, the gods say that it is mankind's own fault, and then mankind says that "it's all in Zeus' hands".

"See now, how men lay blame upon us gods for what is after all nothing but their own folly." (Zeus to the council of the gods, Book I, the Odyssey)

"...as long as my father was here it was well with us and with the house, but the gods in their displeasure have willed it otherwise..." (Telemachus to Athena, who is disguised as Mentes, Book I, the Odyssey)

obviously, context is important for these two quotes because Zeus is referring to the greed of Aegisthus in lusting over Clytemnestra even though he was explicitly warned by Hermes that he would be killed for doing so,,, and Telemachus is, unknowingly, describing the fact that Helios rightfully punished Odysseus & his crew for eating his cattle thus leading to the first delay in Odysseus' return journey... BUT, even so,, i find this battle between the philosophy of the gods vs. men intriguing. Fate is a real concept for the characters in the Odyssey... can anything be truly freely willed if everything is predetermined to Fate anyhow? idk!

anyways. after Athena leaves the council, she magically transports herself to Ithaca in 2 seconds flat, and takes on the disguise of Mentes, the king of the Taphians. Book I describes:

"Telemachus saw [Athena] long before anyone else did... said he... 'Tell me and tell me true, who you are and where you come from.'" (Telemachus to Mentes, Book I, the Odyssey)

i want to note here that Telemachus observes Mentes first! but he does not know that Mentes is Athena. he recognises her as a stranger, but he does not perceive the divine.

let's go back for a second to the Iliad in Book II when Athena flies from Olympus to the ships of the Achaeans to meet Odysseus:

"Down [Athena] darted from... Olympus, and in a moment she was at the ships of the Achaeans. There she found Odysseus... standing alone... Odysseus knew the voice as that of the goddess." (Book II, the Iliad)

there's no indication that Athena appears in disguise to Odysseus which may be the reason that Odysseus recognises her immediately and Telemachus does not. but i personally feel that this is more an indication of the growth of the respective characters.

in the Iliad, Odysseus is already a seasoned, notable warrior of his own renown. in the Odyssey, Telemachus is still a child in his father's house. he attempts to make himself a master of Ithaca as his father was, but he doesn't do this successfully-- the suitors make a havoc of his house and abuse his hospitality. he doesn't have the control that Odysseus has. he is STILL a child, still finding himself.

therefore, i believe that Telemachus noticing Mentes but not knowing that he is Athena is a symbol of his potential.. that he has the ability to be as great and honourable as his father, but is not yet there. in many ways, i think the Odyssey is as much about Odysseus' journey to reach home as it is about Telemachus journey to leave his home and become a man in his own right.

later in Book I, when Athena departs, this postulate seems to be proven true when Telemachus does end up realising who exactly Mentes is:

"With these words she flew away like a bird into the air, but she had given Telemachus courage... He felt the change, wondered at it, and knew that the stranger had been a god..." (Book I, the Odyssey)

he doesn't pinpoint that it is Athena herself... there's a difference between the earlier quote of Odysseus recognising Athena's voice as that of "the goddess" and not simply "a god" as Telemachus concludes... i don't know what happens in the rest of the book, but it would be interesting to see if Telemachus' perceptions of divinity get better throughout the books.

moving back a bit to the content of Athena's actual speech to Telemachus. her goal here is to encourage Telemachus to get a grip on Odysseus' house and to prepare himself for his father's return.

i think Homer is very explicit in making Telemachus a likeable character to his audience. he leaves no doubts in the reader's mind that, even though Telemachus is having trouble with the suitors now, he is definitely Odysseus' son and will find the strength he needs. this is shown through the comparison of the physical resemblance between Odysseus and Telemachus:

"You are indeed wonderfully like [Odysseus] about the head and eyes..." (Athena as Mentes to Telemachus, Book I, the Odyssey)

in fact, Telemachus' "ascension" to the level of reputability and status that Odysseus has begins with Telemachus' somewhat cold ordering-about of his mother Penelope when she asks the bard to change his song (he was singing about the Trojan War):

"Make up your mind to it and bear it; Odysseus is not the only man who never came back from Troy... Go, then, within the house and busy yourself with your daily duties, your loom, your distaff, and the ordering of your servants; for speech is man's matter, and mine above all others-- for it is I who am master here." (Telemachus to Penelope, Book I, the Odyssey)

i think there are two important parts in the above passage-- 1) Telemachus refers to his father directly by name, and 2) Telemachus refers to himself as the Master of the house.

on the first point, it may be nothing, but i think that Telemachus calling Odysseus by name and not by "Odysseus, my father" hints at Telemachus' distance with Odysseus. keep in mind that Odysseus has been gone more than 10 years. when he was recruited for war, Telemachus was a baby. Telemachus does not KNOW Odysseus.

even with the earlier point about Athena saying Telemachus looks like Odysseus... what would that even mean for a boy who has never even really met his dad?

i sneakily looked ahead at some of the other books and Nestor's son refers to Nestor as "Nestor, my father", and even Telemachus eventually refers to Odysseus as "my father" and not directly by his name. so i think this lapse in the use of "father" on Telemachus' part paired with the coldness of his speech to his mother, telling her essentially to "stop crying about the war, your husband is dead, get over it like everyone else has", shows Telemachus' anger with his father and his estrange-ness. at this point, it is obvious that Odysseus really needs to return RIGHT NOW if he wants even a semblance of a relationship with his family.

the second point about Telemachus calling himself the master of the house needs to, i think, be read in conjunction with the succeeding passage about Telemachus telling off the suitors in his house:

"Then Telemachus spoke... The suitors bit their lips as they heard him, and marveled at the boldness of his speech." (Book I, the Odyssey)

i don't think the suitors would have "marveled at the boldness of his speech" if Telemachus had been firm with them from the very start. no, i think that they are surprised because, previously, Telemachus wasn't very confident about anything at all.

so when Telemachus says "it is I who am master here", i think this is a "sudden" revelation. it suggests that previously, he has been running away from this responsibility. he hasn't been addressing the suitors as he should be. but, now, after meeting the goddess, he is invigorated. he is ready to go forth on his own odyssey and accept his fate.

note further, that when Telemachus berates Penelope for being miserable, in the passages preceding this moment, Telemachus himself was moping about and being miserable.

"Telemachus saw [Athena, disguised as Mentes] long before anyone else did. He was sitting moodily among the suitors thinking about his brave father, and how he would send them flying out of the house..." (Book I, the Odyssey)

this contrast of Telemachus being moody and then berating Penelope (and therefore himself) about being moody, shows his "transfiguration"... the beginning of the character development that we will continue to see in the next books.

FURTHER READING:

context for and structure of the Odyssey (sparknotes)

geographical setting of the Odyssey

[godsofhumanity]

HOMER'S ODYSSEY | LITERATURE REVIEW

some of you may remember that i read the Iliad a while back.. that was 2 YEARS AGO!!!!!! and i did a review of it,, like, a chapter-by-chapter analysis of what goes down. i had made plans to read the Odyssey afterwards but life got in the way and i never did. until NOW.

i will be reading the Odyssey for the first time in my life, and maybe i will finally join the world of enthusiastic penelope x odysseus shippers i see so frequently in the mythology sphere of [tumblr].com... but anyways. as with my reviews of the Iliad's chapters, this post will be the key navigating post in which i will link all future chapter reviews. i hope you all enjoy these posts :))

OVERVIEW: The Odyssey follows the perilous return journey of Odysseus, king of Ithaca, from the war on Troy (previously described in the Iliad). While Odysseus is busy competing against both the anger of the gods and the many wily, divine beings preventing him from reaching home, his son Telemachus must attempt to keep order in Ithaca as wild, raucous suitors attempt to woo Penelope, Odysseus' wife, believing Odysseus to be dead.

REVIEW: idk i haven't read it yet... to be edited in later!

AVAILABLE AT: read online via Guttenberg Press (Samuel Butler, 1900 prose version, same as what i am reading and will quote from)

BOOKS: I / II

READ MY ILIAD REVIEW HERE

[godsofhumanity]

If the apple of discord was thrown down at the wedding feast of Peleus and Thetis, how did Achilles, their son, fight in the Trojan war? The timeline does not make sense to me unless you just chalk that up to the timing of the Eternal, Deathless Gods but mortals are involved. Like Paris is presumably asked right after the wedding to judge who gets the apple then he picks Aphrodite who has promised him the most beautiful woman. Does she like wait to find out who that is and that causes the delay? The story seems to go that she promises Helen, they kidnap Helen and then the war begins so like that’s a year tops in my mind but how would that give Achilles time to become the teenager he is in the war? Please help. If there is a definitive answer excellent but I also just want theories.

i really love love love this question, cus i’ve thought about it a lot, especially because i consider Paris and Achilles to be around the same age, which, as you said, would make no sense.

sadly, i don’t have a definitive answer, but i do have a theory. it’s quite long though so buckle up.

As you probably know, Aphrodite, Hera and Athena asked Zeus to solve the issue before resorting to Paris. Zeus couldn’t answer and by the timeline of the Gods, many mortal years had passed so Paris would have been born, sent away from the palace and had enough time to grow up at this point. Ares suggests him, the goddesses ask and Paris gets bribed. But he doesn’t take Helen straight away, because he’s still a goatherd at this point.

Before I finish with that, let’s get back to Achilles. One would probably assume that within the first year of Thetis’ and Peleus’ marriage, he was already born, but that’s actually not true. The couple had six sons before Achilles, but they all passed away somehow (which, i like to think, is the reason Thetis is so protective). That means, even if they all died on Day 1 of their life and Thetis conceived the very same day: 9 months x 6 = 54 months aka. 4,5 years. That’s at least 4 and a half years before Achilles was born, but I think I can safely assume it took a little longer. Let’s say 6 years (which btw is still unrealistic and would probably be horrible for Thetis’ health but I digress).

So now, Achilles is born, stuff happens: Achilles meets Phoenix and Patroclus, he gets sent to Chiron, and eventually Scyros etc. Let’s say he’s 17 when that happens. Still a teen, but old enough to get Deidamia pregnant. Realistically, Thetis would only send him away when the threat of the war is imminent, so Helen’s kidnapping happens when Achilles is 17. I tend to say Helen was around 24, Paris was maybe 21. I believe however that the Judgement of Paris happened a couple years before.

Because, consider, Paris picks Aphrodite as a goatherd, but he kidnaps Helen as a prince. So somewhere in between, Cassandra must've found him and brought him back. He then had to get used to royal life, but, more importantly, all the ships had to be ready to go to Sparta. It could've happened in a couple of days, but a couple of years isn't unrealistic either, and it fits the timeline better.

It's a bit all over the place, so here's summary:

0 years: Peleus' and Thetis' wedding, Golden Apple incident (Paris/Achilles not born)

2 years: Paris is born and abandoned.

6 years: Achilles is born.

19 years: The Judgement of Paris happens, Paris is still a goatherd.

23 years: Paris kidnaps Helen, start of the war, Achilles is aged 17

The only time ‘divine timing’ really plays a role is between the wedding the Judgement of Paris. In divine timing 19 years is nothing, just enough time for Zeus and Ares to get involved. Paris would’ve probably already held one or two bullfights at the age of 17 when he is chosen to judge between the goddesses and from then on everything runs pretty smoothly, bearing in mind the 4 years between Aphrodite promising Helen to him and Paris actually kidnapping Helen.

sorry it took so long to post this, had to get my thoughts in check then type it up :D

[godsofhumanity]

oh my god i’m gnawing at the bars of my enclosure rn this is crazy

you’re telling me that not only is ‘Priam’ an epithet of sorts, but also that Priam’s real name is “Podarkes”? ‘Podarkes’ which is much more famously an epithet for a different hero, the hero that killed Priam’s son and destroyed his city? For Achilles???

Priam’s name is Podarkes and Podarkes’ name is Achilles someone shoot me rn

[godsofhumanity]

A/N: Thematically appropriate, since I am still ill, I guess? This is a very old idea. Greek mythology again, for a change. @godsofhumanity

AO3 - KoFi

What goes around, comes around

Hephaestus held his hand above his eyes to block out the sun, which stood high in the sky for the late summer. Mount Olympus seemed terrifyingly close. ‘We’re really almost there, right?’ He asked Dionysus, who had stopped a few meters ahead. 

The young god nodded. ‘Just… a few more days.’

Hephaestus heard the slight pause between the ‘just’ and ‘a.’ It made him feel anxious. Less so then it would have at the beginning of the journey, but still anxious. ‘Is everything alright? Does it bother you that I keep asking if we’re almost there?’

Dionysus shook his head with a weak smile. He leaned against a nearby tree. ‘Not at all.’ 

Hephaestus felt the anxiety rise. It bound together in his throat, and he swallowed. ‘But something’s wrong.’

Dionysus’ smile vanished. ‘Yes, something’s wrong,’ he admitted. ‘I’ve been feeling sick.’ Hephaestus caught up with his friend and pulled him close. Dionysus coughed twice.

‘And I didn’t see it.’ Hephaestus felt his heart thumping in his chest. ‘Oh, darling, come…’ His friend felt hot to the touch. When he looked at him, his eyes were watery. 

‘It’s alright. I didn’t say anything. You can’t read people’s minds, we talked about that.’

Hephaestus shushed him. When he took his friend into his arms, he seemed even lighter than usual. ‘You need rest. You need proper food. We need to set up camp for a few days.’

‘I might make you sick.’

‘I am a god.’ Hephaestus walked down the path by the riverbank, looking for a proper spot to set up camp. They would need a safe place, with sources of food and water nearby. ‘You are too, but not wholly so. I felt it the moment you came into my workshop on Lemnos.’ He felt tears welling up in his eyes. ‘I am so, so sorry. I should have paid you more attention, you have been taking care of me and you are so young…’

‘I am old in human years,’ Dionysus croaked before coughing again. 

‘Does me carrying you hurt?’

‘No.’

‘I guess even if it did, I’d have no choice. I need to bring you somewhere safe.’ Dionysus nodded. Hephaestus walked, whispering calming words, until he found a proper spot. Dionysus stood while he unwrapped a sleeping mat. ‘Lay down. I’ll put up a tent.’

‘I…’

‘Come on.’

Dionysus obliged, sitting down on the sleeping mat. When even sitting became too much, he laid down. 

When Hephaestus was done, he opened his pack. ‘You need to eat. We’ve got reserves for a couple of days, and some ambrosia, nectar. You’ll need a mix of both.’

‘I’m not hungry.’

‘Doesn’t matter.’ Hephaestus took a piece of dried fruit out of his pack. ‘Try eating a bit.’ He got the waterskin from the pack. ‘Water might become an issue. We don’t have a well nearby.’ 

‘How do you know how to take care of the sick?’

The young god couldn’t really say what was going on behind Hephaestus’ eyes when he spoke: ‘On Lemnos, sometimes, a customer, or a wife or a child of a customer, would get sick. Raising temperatures. Sore throats. They were thirsty a lot.’ He sighed. ‘They talked to me about what they did sometimes. That’s how I learned.’ He swallowed. ‘That’s also when I learned how fragile humans can be. Some of them died, even if they only had a common illness.’ Hephaestus felt the tears pressing against his eyes. ‘I don’t want you to die,’ he whispered. ‘Please, please don’t die. I don’t know where I’d be without you. Don’t tell me I would be alright.’ Dionysus looked up at him with watery eyes. ‘I wouldn’t be.’

Dionysus didn’t say anything. He began on the dried fruits Hephaestus had offered him. 

Dionysus slept badly, lying awake for multiple hours, finally falling into restless sleep only to wake up screaming and covered in sweat. Hephaestus held watch beside him, refusing to sleep at all. Whenever his friend woke up, he held him until it was better. ‘It’s alright, it’s alright,’ he whispered, even if he knew it wasn’t alright. 

By morning, the illness had developed into a throat ache that made it difficult to talk, a running nose and a burning fever. 

‘I’ll try to get some fish from the stream,’ Hephaestus whispered.

Dionysus tried to speak, but could only whisper: ‘Not hungry.’ He coughed, which hurt the very depth of his throat. 

‘Just a little bit,’ Hephaestus whispered. ‘With some nectar. You need both, but I’ll only make you eat a little bit of both.’ As long as he ate at all. 

Dionysus didn’t complain. When Hephaestus picked him up, blanket and all, he shuddered. ‘Fates…’

‘You’re burning,’ Hephaestus whispered. No time to think about it. ‘Sorry, I want to keep an eye on you.’ With his friend in his arms, he walked the little while to the riverbank. 

Hephaestus managed to catch a fish quite quickly. Dionysus held up his hand when he offered to pick him up again. 

With a pounding headache, Dionysus got up from the sandy patch. ‘I’ll walk. It’s only a few minutes.’

The few minutes became about ten minutes. When they arrived back at the camp, it took thirty minutes for Dionysus to attempt eating. 

‘It’s alright,’ he whispered, and shivered. ‘Don’t you… need… sleep?’

Hephaestus held on to him through the next coughing fit. ‘No,’ he answered. ‘I’m a god. I need less sleep than you. You need someone to watch over you.’ He swallowed. ‘The way you’ve been watching over me the past months. You think I never noticed you, at two a.m., standing guard and worrying? Or Fates, every single day when I asked some stupid anxious question and you answered it for me? Perhaps it’s my turn to stand guard and worry over you. Perhaps it’s my turn to quench your anxiety.’ He felt the tears prickling behind his eyes. ‘You’ve done so much for me. I can never hope to pay you back. Please, let me do the very least, now that you so clearly need it.’

Dionysus didn’t reply. He looked like he would cry as well. 

Hephaestus pulled the blanket straight. ‘Now get rest.’ 

Dionysus obliged. 

A/N: Sooo I used to think about the hike from Lemnos to Olympus a lot. I wrote a bit about it already, yet I always had the headcanon that Dionysus would get sick at the very end, causing Hephaestus to take care of him and really show how much he got to appreciating his friend. Also, I am aware that the journey is supposed to be like… a single hangover long. Still I enjoy it being stretched into months. Makes for bonding and drama.

[godsofhumanity]

i REALLY REALLY love it when u guys ask me for hc's because it makes me feel like im not insane and that my ideas aren't COMPLETELY whack.... but, i implore you all to please please please check my hc's masterlist before you send an ask for hcs becoz i get a lot of repeated requests and im not sure if you guys just want MORE or you didn't realise that i've already done hc's for certain gods.

my masterlist is HERE, and it is also always in my bio for quick access.

thank u, love u all ^-^

[godsofhumanity]

HC MASTERLIST

hullo everybody,, i decided to make a massive post with all my hc's on it, sorted by mythology and then alphabetically.. i thought this would make it easier for people to find what i've already written because i tend to get a lot of repeated asks (ahem, i'm looking at you Thanatos and siblings, ahem) so yeah i really hope u guys enjoy this,, it took a few hours to compile..

also, because [tumblr] has a word limit on the posts, i had to split up the Greek one across letters but yeah, this post will have everything, and it will be linked in my bio so u can easily get back to it once it gets lost over time :)

AZTEC

EGYPTIAN

GREEK (A-H)

GREEK (I-P)

GREEK (R-Z)

NORSE

MISCELLANEOUS + VISUAL

see a link not working? let me know!

──────────────── ･ ｡ﾟ☆: *.☽ .* :��ﾟ. ───────────────

[godsofhumanity]

i think we should re-adopt some Athenian legal traditions... if somebody annoys me, i'm writing their name 6,001 times so they have to the gtfo the city (x)

[godsofhumanity]

achilles moment

[godsofhumanity]

If the apple of discord was thrown down at the wedding feast of Peleus and Thetis, how did Achilles, their son, fight in the Trojan war? The timeline does not make sense to me unless you just chalk that up to the timing of the Eternal, Deathless Gods but mortals are involved. Like Paris is presumably asked right after the wedding to judge who gets the apple then he picks Aphrodite who has promised him the most beautiful woman. Does she like wait to find out who that is and that causes the delay? The story seems to go that she promises Helen, they kidnap Helen and then the war begins so like that’s a year tops in my mind but how would that give Achilles time to become the teenager he is in the war? Please help. If there is a definitive answer excellent but I also just want theories.

i really love love love this question, cus i’ve thought about it a lot, especially because i consider Paris and Achilles to be around the same age, which, as you said, would make no sense.

sadly, i don’t have a definitive answer, but i do have a theory. it’s quite long though so buckle up.

As you probably know, Aphrodite, Hera and Athena asked Zeus to solve the issue before resorting to Paris. Zeus couldn’t answer and by the timeline of the Gods, many mortal years had passed so Paris would have been born, sent away from the palace and had enough time to grow up at this point. Ares suggests him, the goddesses ask and Paris gets bribed. But he doesn’t take Helen straight away, because he’s still a goatherd at this point.

Before I finish with that, let’s get back to Achilles. One would probably assume that within the first year of Thetis’ and Peleus’ marriage, he was already born, but that’s actually not true. The couple had six sons before Achilles, but they all passed away somehow (which, i like to think, is the reason Thetis is so protective). That means, even if they all died on Day 1 of their life and Thetis conceived the very same day: 9 months x 6 = 54 months aka. 4,5 years. That’s at least 4 and a half years before Achilles was born, but I think I can safely assume it took a little longer. Let’s say 6 years (which btw is still unrealistic and would probably be horrible for Thetis’ health but I digress).

So now, Achilles is born, stuff happens: Achilles meets Phoenix and Patroclus, he gets sent to Chiron, and eventually Scyros etc. Let’s say he’s 17 when that happens. Still a teen, but old enough to get Deidamia pregnant. Realistically, Thetis would only send him away when the threat of the war is imminent, so Helen’s kidnapping happens when Achilles is 17. I tend to say Helen was around 24, Paris was maybe 21. I believe however that the Judgement of Paris happened a couple years before.

Because, consider, Paris picks Aphrodite as a goatherd, but he kidnaps Helen as a prince. So somewhere in between, Cassandra must've found him and brought him back. He then had to get used to royal life, but, more importantly, all the ships had to be ready to go to Sparta. It could've happened in a couple of days, but a couple of years isn't unrealistic either, and it fits the timeline better.

It's a bit all over the place, so here's summary:

0 years: Peleus' and Thetis' wedding, Golden Apple incident (Paris/Achilles not born)

2 years: Paris is born and abandoned.

6 years: Achilles is born.

19 years: The Judgement of Paris happens, Paris is still a goatherd.

23 years: Paris kidnaps Helen, start of the war, Achilles is aged 17

The only time ‘divine timing’ really plays a role is between the wedding the Judgement of Paris. In divine timing 19 years is nothing, just enough time for Zeus and Ares to get involved. Paris would’ve probably already held one or two bullfights at the age of 17 when he is chosen to judge between the goddesses and from then on everything runs pretty smoothly, bearing in mind the 4 years between Aphrodite promising Helen to him and Paris actually kidnapping Helen.

sorry it took so long to post this, had to get my thoughts in check then type it up :D

[godsofhumanity]

AWESOME TAGSS

tezcatlipoca hcs pls? (They don't need to be about any particular subject it can just be general or silly hcs about him)

okieee silly hc's because i've already done serious ones here :))

one thing about Tezcatlipoca is i think he is really petty, and his favourite hobby is doing everything opposite to Quetzalcoatl.

so like.. if Quetzalcoatl says ''i think it's time for a new sun'', he will adamantly try and convince everyone that it is NOT time for a new sun even if he doesn't even believe that himself.

yes, he is editing wikipedia to prove his arguments correct.

also, he's super good liar so i think he often just spurts out any nonsense from the top of his head, but because he delivers it with such a serious face, i think many of the gods believe him.

Huitzilopochtli falls victim to these lies most often, but he is getting BETTER and picking out Tez's little falsehoods :))

if he watched TV, his favourite genre would be drama, no doubt. like the bad, bold & the beautiful type drama.

i think he'd send letters and stuff to the writers of the shows to say how they treated certain plotlines absolutely terribly and it would be paired with very colourful language and hilarious insults.

um, i think i've mentioned in my previous hcs that i think Tezcatlipoca is pretty much always seen with a jaguar. he has a pet one (read: several), and they all have the same temperament as him.

i like the idea of these jaguars lazing around everywhere.. sometimes they will sleep in Quetzalcoatl's favourite chair and they will NOT MOVE and there is nothing Quetzalcoatl can do about it... Tez may or may not have trained them to do this.

[godsofhumanity]

Hello, any chance for Athena?

🔊ATHENA! ATHENA! ATHENA! 🔊

obligatory explanation for Hephaestus being here: i know how the original myth goes, but in my story, that doesn't happen because i don't think it adds anything to the story for either Hephaestus or Athena. instead, in my version, while Hephaestus is completely enraptured by Athena and she is completely indifferent about him, Hephaestus eventually accepts that she's just not that into him, and they remain really good friends ((read here)) <33

[godsofhumanity]

Imagine Demeter is the wildest of the sisters out of Hera and Hestia, and Rhea kept seeing Gaia in Demeter with how wild and rough but sweet she is?

im imagining. it's cute 💖

[godsofhumanity]

It will be interesting if Tartarus is a more extreme version of Themis and Nemesis?

Imagine he’s pretty close to nyx and Erebus, but also likes to tease them a lot?

themis and nemesis are associated with justice a lot, but i don't think i have ever heard of tartarus, as a deity, also being associated with that. ALTHOUGH, he is a prison for the worst of the worst, so i guess you could say he has a role as a force of justice... so maybe, yes, he could be an extreme version of themis and nemesis.

in another universe where all the primordials are awake, im sure tartarus would be the type of guy who is completely silent mostly, but when he speaks, he delivers some fiery zingers and roasts <3

[godsofhumanity]

May I humbly ask for some wheat (Themis and/or Rhea headcanons), mi'lord?

okie so i've already done a lot of Themis and Rhea hc's, but not too many of the two of them together, so here we go:

of Gaia's daughters, first came Theia, then Rhea, then Themis, Mnemosyne, Phoebe, and Tethys.

as the first-born daughter, i think Theia would always act a lot older than she really was, and she's a bit bossy too, so when Rhea was born, i think she was a little mischievous, and quite a trouble-maker (this ties into why she got along with Kronos so well hee hee but i'm not here to talk about him so we'll move on) to counter Theia's goody-two-shoesness.

Themis, the third-born, is the titan of justice which is pretty interesting because that suggests she's quite moral and law-abiding, so that could suggest a little friction between Themis and Rhea as kids.

i can imagine Rhea and Themis butting heads a lot-- Rhea flicking food at Themis, Themis being stubborn and unwilling to let things go, so she flicks food back at Rhea, and Rhea flicks it back but misses Themis and hits Hyperion instead, who throws bread at Coeus who cries, and then Crius is shouting and Theia is rolling her eyes and Iapetus is gleefully throwing plates at the wall, and Oceanus is yelling at everybody to shut up and behave, there's food everywhere and it's a mess.

BUT. Rhea's not evil, and Themis isn't always a spoilsport. i think the thing that Rhea and Themis truly have in common is their fighting prowess.

i like the idea of Theia, being the titan of 'brilliance' (i.e., light), and Mnemosyne being the titan of the Arts (effectively), Phoebe with her prophecies, and Tethys with the rivers, etc., i think Themis and Rhea are the only two titanides with that fiery spirit that makes them actively want to fight. idk if i'm phrasing that in a way that makes sense, but i mean, they don't back down from a fight.

in terms of fight or flight instinct, theirs is to fight.

so, i think Themis and Rhea get along best when they're sparring, or hunting.

especially in the lead-up to their attack against Ouranos, i hc that Themis and Rhea stay up late hours, sometimes never even going to bed because they're out in the fields, clashing their swords and spears.

i consider the titans as having become 'full adults' at the point when they've defeated Ouranos. in a sense, when Kronos becomes King, that is the end of their childhood. their innocence. they are fully mature then; physically and mentally.

and i think, as adults, Themis and Rhea become much closer than they were in childhood. the trauma of war and Ouranos' terror unites them.

Themis also becoming an advisor in Kronos' palace means that Rhea and Themis see each other a lot more compared to Hyperion, Theia, Phoebe, Coeus, Oceanus, and Tethys who live the furthest away from Kronos' palace (Kronos' brothers become kings in the corners of the world... so does Iapetus, but Iapetus and Kronos are close, so Iapetus appears more often the other brothers).

of course, Themis and Rhea could not have been too close since no one really knows what Rhea suffers at Kronos' hands until the titanomachy is literally on their doorstep, but i still think Themis and Rhea do get along well in that immediate post-war peace period.

[godsofhumanity]

tezcatlipoca hcs pls? (They don't need to be about any particular subject it can just be general or silly hcs about him)

okieee silly hc's because i've already done serious ones here :))

one thing about Tezcatlipoca is i think he is really petty, and his favourite hobby is doing everything opposite to Quetzalcoatl.

so like.. if Quetzalcoatl says ''i think it's time for a new sun'', he will adamantly try and convince everyone that it is NOT time for a new sun even if he doesn't even believe that himself.

yes, he is editing wikipedia to prove his arguments correct.

also, he's super good liar so i think he often just spurts out any nonsense from the top of his head, but because he delivers it with such a serious face, i think many of the gods believe him.

Huitzilopochtli falls victim to these lies most often, but he is getting BETTER and picking out Tez's little falsehoods :))

if he watched TV, his favourite genre would be drama, no doubt. like the bad, bold & the beautiful type drama.

i think he'd send letters and stuff to the writers of the shows to say how they treated certain plotlines absolutely terribly and it would be paired with very colourful language and hilarious insults.

um, i think i've mentioned in my previous hcs that i think Tezcatlipoca is pretty much always seen with a jaguar. he has a pet one (read: several), and they all have the same temperament as him.

i like the idea of these jaguars lazing around everywhere.. sometimes they will sleep in Quetzalcoatl's favourite chair and they will NOT MOVE and there is nothing Quetzalcoatl can do about it... Tez may or may not have trained them to do this.

[godsofhumanity]

Hey, when I read about your review on godhunter it reminded me of another mythological story called “God Is Dead” it’s a completed comic series where all existing pantheons battle each other on who gets the earth, so non of the gods like each other :(

For the designs of the gods there alright but the Aztec gods got the short end of the stick because they made Huitzilopochtli a humanoid lizard and Quetzalcoatl just has a birds head on top of a human body, and Tezcatlipoca is also humanoid but a jaguar

Wouldn’t really recommend the book if someone is very interested in mythology as the writers probably didn’t do research for most pantheons and even if someone isn’t into mythology, the story can get confusing at times

oohh never heard of that before!!

you weren’t kidding about those designs though!!!

tbh i don’t HATE it. i think it’s a nice new take, but the lizard for quetz instead of a snake is an… interesting take. looks a bit like caiman from dorohedoro.

i probably won’t read it hahaha but i’ll add it to my recs list anyhow in case i somehow find the time to!! thank you very much for sharing it with me ❤️

wait edit: idk wtf i was going on about quetz as a lizard because that is huitzilopochtli as anon wrote before— my bad, i am tired 😴 but still. why is quetz a bird and not a snake!! huitzilopochtli actually looks a bit like a crocodile.