godsofhumanity

[godsofhumanity]

related to xan’s banger music post… when marina said “you’re like my dad, you’d get on well… send my best regards from Hell”— that’s peak rhea x kronos to me

[godsofhumanity]

You Belong With Me a staple Hephaestus Aglaia song

[godsofhumanity]

HEY... TWO THINGS I WANNA SAY/ASK: 1. your Set and Osiris remind me of Gumball and Darwin and I love that 2. is Ihy [son of Horus and Hathor ] included in some of the quotes? I feel like you would get his personality right hehe

hii omg, u know when i first read this ask i got soooo excited but i was on a self-imposed tumblr ban so i couldn't respond. anyways, i love egyptian mythology sooo much and i love it when i get asks like this because there honestly is not that many people deep into the egyptian lore on this site!!

i haven't watched enough of gumball to remember what their relationship is like but i trust you on this and i am sooo glad that you like what i've done for osiris and set!!!! they're my special guyssss <333 Ray of Sunshine and Mr. Grump dynamic <3

i haven't done ihy before.. i haven't done any of horus' kids! i have secretly been making chats and adding them to my paused queue hee hee but i decided for this ask, i will post something. i hope you like it :))) here!

thank you again for all ur sweet words!!

[godsofhumanity]

Hathor: [ordering a new coffee machine to replace their 7 year old one] Ihy: That machine's not that old... i have bedsheets older than that! Hathor: Well, perhaps your sheets aren't getting as much action as our coffee machine. Ihy: Ihy: Dad? Call me an ambulance. I've been burned.

[godsofhumanity]

BOOK III | HOMER'S ODYSSEY | LITERATURE REVIEW

SUMMARY: Telemachus arrives in Pylos and is warmly greeted by King Nestor who praises him for his eloquence in speech, remarking on the similarities between Telemachus and Odysseus. Nestor recounts the events that have taken place at the end of the war, notably the death of Agamemnon, but does not know where Odysseus is. At the end of the book, Nestor provides Telemachus with a chariot to travel to Sparta to ask Menelaus for further information.

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Book 3 is a pretty pleasant book all around- there's no suitors to annoy Telemachus, Nestor and his sons treat both Telemachus and Athena very well, and even though we don't know exactly what's happened with Odysseus, we get a lot of insight into what went down at the conclusion of the Trojan War.

let's first start with Telemachus' arrival in Pylos where the crew is immediately welcomed and fed:

"When [the Pylians] saw the strangers, they crowded round them, took them by the hand, and bade them take their places. Nestor's son Pisistratus at once offered... soft sheep skins [to sit on]... he gave them their portions of the... meats and poured wine for them into a golden cup, handing it to Athena first..."

Xenia, as i've mentioned in the previous books, is an extremely central theme to the Odyssey. we have examples of bad xenia (for example, the way Penelope's suitors treat Odysseus' house), and now we have an example of excellent xenia.

before even knowing who Telemachus is, Nestor's people welcome Telemachus and his crew. they hold nothing back for these strangers. they don't inquire about who they are, where they're going. for all they know, Telemachus and his crew could be in Pylos to rob them!! but it doesn't matter. Nestor treats the crew well regardless.

secondly, at this point, no one knows that Mentor is actually Athena. and yet, Pisistratus (Nestor's youngest son) gives the cup to Athena first.

it may be that he does this because Mentor is the eldest, but i think, on a deeper level, this is a reminder of what pious people the Pylians are. in all things, they put the gods first, even if it is unconsciously.

now, after they offer the prayers and everyone's been served dinner, Nestor finally realises who Telemachus is, and again, Telemachus is told how similar he seems to his father :))

but more importantly, we hear, for the first time, what happened to four key characters: Agamemnon, Menelaus, Odysseus, and Diomedes.

first, we are told that Athena "creates a feud" amongst the Achaeans. the reasons for this are unclear, but essentially, Agamemnon wants to stay in Troy and offer sacrifices to Athena while Menelaus wants to leave for Sparta at once.

intuitively, one might expect that the people offering the sacrifices should be more favourable in the gods' eyes than the ones who are just trying to get back home immediately. BUT that's not the case because Agamemnon and Odysseus, who stay behind, have a pretty troublesome journey back, while Menelaus and Diomedes, who leave immediately, actually make it home safely.

i don't believe this is because Agamemnon and Odysseus were hated or anything-- we are told frequently that "never yet [were] the gods so openly fond of anyone as Athena then was of [Odysseus]"....

i think it's just the idea of "fate". no hecatombs and offerings can bribe the gods to change fate.

the troubles of Agamemnon and Odysseus actually remind me of the death of Sarpedon in the Iliad (Book 16 (XVI))... Zeus desperately wishes to prevent Sarpedon's death but even he, king of the gods, cannot do so. there are some paths that must be travelled. this is affirmed later in the book:

"Still, death is certain, and when a man's hour is come, not even the gods can save him, no matter how fond they are of him." (Nestor about Agamemnon's death)

so, Agamemnon's offerings are cute but ultimately worthless-- his fate was already set.

now, what actually happened to Agamemnon? well, when Agamemnon first leaves Mycenae, his wife, Clytemnestra is left alone and is plagued by suitors. well, not suitors, but a suitor... Aegisthus (who, in the lore, actually murdered Agamemnon's dad, Atreus!). we are told:

"At first, [Clytemnestra] would have nothing to do with [Aegisthus'] wicked scheme, for she was of a good natural disposition; moreover, there was a bard with her... Aegisthus carried this bard off to a desert island... after which, she went willingly enough to the house of Aegisthus."

and of course, they plotted to kill Agamenon when he came home, and then, of course, 8 years later, Orestes (Agamenon's son by Clytemnestra) comes back and kills both his mum and Aegisthus.

it is worthwhile here to compare Penelope and Clytemnestra. both women have their husbands leave them alone while they go to war. both are plagued by suitors trying to seduce them into marrying again while it is not clear whether their husbands live or not. and YET. only one woman meets a sticky end.

LitCharts suggests that the bard plays an important role here, and i think this is true. you'll recall in Book I that a bard recounts the story of the war and Penelope tries to stop him because she can't stand the memories of Odysseus... but Telemachus scolds her and insists that she listen to it.

well, in Clytemnestra's story, there's also a bard. and at the exact moment that the bard is done away with, she falls for Aegisthus' tricks and so dooms her life.

the bard represents memories. through his song, he keeps the memory of the women's husbands alive. therefore, by preventing the bard's song, the memory fades, the loyalty dies, and the husband is "dead".

Book 3 therefore suggests that Telemachus' insistence that Penelope listens to the bard's song back in Book I was more prudent than we initially expected-- he kept Odysseus' memory awake, as painful as it was, and so the temptation to forget him was lessened.

so, ultimately, Agamemnon's story is very important for the Odyssey. it's almost a parallel to Penelope and Odysseus' story... a sort-of "what if..." version of events.

Nestor also ends his recount with this exact warning:

"Take my advice then, and do not go traveling about for long so far from home, nor leave your property with such dangerous people in your house..." (Nestor to Telemachus)

at the end of the recount, Athena also agrees with Nestor, and then we go into a very detailed description of the sacrifice of 81 black bulls to the gods.

what jumps out the most to me in this segment is the part about "cutting the tongues" of the bulls and offering them separately to the rest of the organs.

i couldn't really find any concrete answers as to why this was done, but one theory is that the offering of the tongue as the final step sort of signifies the "end of talk"... as in, now that the tongue has been offered, there's nothing left to say. and this might have significance here as when this is done, Nestor invites Telemachus to stay in his house for the night, and that's kinda it. there's no further insights to be made.

additionally, after this sacrifice, Athena reveals her divine self when she transforms into an eagle in front of everyone, leaving Nestor pretty speechless.

it's a sign that Telemachus is, indeed, favoured and blessed by the gods, and while Nestor's advice is very useful,, ultimately, he is going to be guided by the gods who are in control of the reins... theirs is the final word, or at least, fate has the final word. so, the final offering of the tongues is sort of the way to signify that, between Nestor and Telemachus, all that needs to be said has been said.

sure enough, the next day is Telemachus' last day in Pylos. Nestor makes another elaborate sacrifice to Athena, getting a heifer's horns gold-plated and then killing it for her... and then a chariot is prepared for Telemachus, and no other noteworthy words are exchanged between Nestor and Telemachus. and so concludes Book 3.

in Book 4, we'll hear from Menelaus and the lovely Helen, and perhaps, learn more about where the hell Odysseus is.

[godsofhumanity]

timeline

@a-chaotic-dumbass @nysus-temple here it is!! also tagging @godsofhumanity because you said something about calydonian boar hunt which i mention ever so briefly. the links will take you to fics i have written about the aforementioned occurrence since i will shamelessly take any chance to plug my writing.

Telamon (22) kills his younger half-brother, so both he and Peleus (19) are exiled by their father. Peleus is taken in by his uncle and marries his cousin. He eventually joins the Calydonian Boar Hunt, and accidentally kills his uncle/father-in-law, resulting in his fleeing for a second time. In this second exile he is accused of attempted infidelity by the King’s wife, whom he shunned. The news reaches his own wife, who kills herself, leaving the throne of Pthia to him. The King chases Peleus for revenge, organizing an attack on him by centaurs on Mount Pelion. Chiron aids Peleus and saves his life. This whole fiasco takes 9 years to unfold.

Peleus’ (28) success during the Boar Hunt results in his marriage to Thetis. A year after the wedding, he joins Jason on the Argo. Thetis gives birth to 6 boys before Achilles is born but they all die in infancy.

Priam (27) and Hecuba (25) introduce Paris (0) into the world and almost immediately abandon him into the wild. So far they’ve had Hector (8), his sister (7), Deiphobus (5) and the twins Cassandra and Helenus (4)

4 years later, Achilles (0) is born and dunked in the Styx; Thetis then leaves Peleus (34).

Phoenix (35) gets exiled and comes Phthia because Peleus (35) is his friend, Achilles (1) is living with his dad, he and childless Phoenix bond.

Patroclus (8) kills his playmate over losing a game of petteia; his father sends him away, Peleus (40) empathizes and takes him in, Patroclus and Achilles (5) meet for the first time (ROUGH SEAS)

Menelaus (16) and Agamemnon (21) seek asylum in Sparta, Clytemnestra (14) is immediately infatuated by Agamemnon, Helen (14) not so much. Castor and Pollux (14) are interested in the stories they have to tell.

Agamemnon (22) leaves Sparta to overthrow Aegisthus (20) in Mycenae; he (23) returns to ask for Clytemnestra’s (16) hand in marriage but she’s already married. He kills Tantalus and son (<1) and gets engaged to her (BLOOD-RED HANDS).

Helen (16) gets kidnapped by Theseus about a month later, the Dioscuri (16) bring her back; Clytemnestra (16) and Agamemnon’s (23) wedding gets pulled forward despite the mourning period out of fear for Clytemnestra’s wellbeing and because she is displaying symptoms of pregnancy. Peleus (43) leaves Achilles (9) and Patroclus (12) to go on a military expedition to Troy with Hercules and Telamon (46). When he returns it’s all he talks about and Achilles becomes obsessed with the idea of Troy. Podarkes/Priam (40) earns his epithet when his father (65) gets killed, Hector (21) has his first experiences with war. Telamon takes Priam’s sister as a concubine and she births Teucer, Ajax is 14 at the time.

Helen (18) gets wed off to Menelaus (20). Odysseus (22) marries Penelope (20), Agamemnon (25) and Clytemnestra (18) already have Iphigenia (1) and she’s heavily pregnant (OLIVE TREE)

Achilles (11) gets sent to Charon as a method of education, by now he and Patroclus (14) are inseparable.

Achilles (13) comes back home from Charon and teaches Patroclus everything he learned.

Helen (25) leaves Sparta with Paris (22) (WATCH THE STARS COLLAPSE), Hector (30) freaks out (GATES OF TROY); Achilles (18) impregnates Deidamia (17); Odysseus (29), Agamemnon (32), and Menelaus (27) come and get him for war (SKYROS); Penelope (27) is left alone with Telemachus (1) (CRAZY FOR YOU) and Orestes (10) and Pylades (12) are sent to Sparta to stay with Hermione (6) for her protection.

Achilles (18) goes to Phthia, his father (52) gives him gifts and weapons, Achilles takes Patroclus (21) and Phoenix (52) with him (SAY YOU REMEMBER ME). At Aulis, Iphigenia (11) is brought in as a supposed bride for Achilles, but she is sacrificed (WEDDING ALTARS AND SACRIFICIAL SHRINES). Electra (10) and Chrysothemis (4) are now alone with their mother.

Achilles (25) kills Andromache’s (35) family and she flees to Troy, where she remeets Hector (37) whom she knows from 29 years prior. They get married and a year later Andromache gives birth to Scamandrius/Astyanax.

[godsofhumanity]

BOOK II | HOMER'S ODYSSEY | LITERATURE REVIEW

SUMMARY: Telemachus addresses the suitors that plague his mother and his house, but they do not see reason. Praying to Athena, he makes preparations to leave Ithaca for Pylos in search of his father.

previous book / all books / next book

OKIE. so the first thing that caught my eye in Book II is that when Telemachus is going around to gather the assembly and address the suitors, he goes with his dogs:

"Then, when they were got together, he went to the place of assembly spear in hand- not alone, for his two hounds went with him."

people who know the ending of the Odyssey will remember that by the time Odysseus actually does show up, only his faithful dog Argus recognises him. so, there seems to be this recurring motif of dogs as a representation of loyalty, which is a super important theme throughout the book.

i also think that the parallels of Odysseus with his dog and now Telemachus with these two dogs emphasises how similar father and son are.

in Book I, we had begun to see the growth of Telemachus' character, being moody and irate at the start, but slowly more calm and dignified and commanding. in the second book, this is re-established:

"... all marveled at him as he went by, and when he took his place in his father's seat even the oldest councilors made way for him."

interestingly, i find that the constant descriptions of Telemachus ascending to "his father's seat" sorta sets up the idea that Odysseus is never coming back. if i didn't know the story myself, i would've thought perhaps this is Telemachus becoming The Head of the Household for real, not as a placeholder, not just keeping the seat warm, but officially. it would've been crazy to live in Ancient Greece and hear the Odyssey for the first time tbh!

at the assembly, Telemachus gets mad about the suitors hanging around his house and drinking all the wine, and he gets so passionate about it that:

"With this, Telemachus dashed his staff to the ground and burst into tears."

i like this description because, it isn't simply duty and fate that compels Telemachus to address the suitors. this is his house, the house he was born in, the house he was raised in... it's his mother that these men are fighting for, in front of him... in his father's house... that father who was first dragged off to the war because he couldn't bear to feign indifference long enough for infant Telemachus to be run over by oxen. did Telemachus know how Odysseus got recruited? i don't know. i'm not sure if it gets revealed.. but an interesting thought there.

anyways. i'm trying to say here that Telemachus is motivated emotionally.

now, most people who are sensible hear Telemachus' plea and sit quietly. EXCEPT, Antinous who gets mad about it, and gives us our first real insight into Penelope as a character.

"It is your mother's fault... 'Sweet hearts,' said she, 'Odysseus is indeed dead, still do not press me to marry immediately, wait- for I would not have my still in needlework perish unrecorded- till I have completed a pall for [my father-in-law] Laertes. ... but at night, she would unpick the stitches again by torchlight. She fooled us in this way for three years..."

SparkNotes has this great line, "If the Iliad is about strength, the Odyssey is about cunning."

i think that is SO true. in every interaction Telemachus and Penelope have with others, it is always about their eloquence, the way they speak, their schemes.

here, we realise that Penelope has artfully been undoing her stitches at night so it seems her progress on the pall has been extremely slow. it shows that she is an intelligent woman, and it shows her loyalty.

she says "Odysseus is indeed dead", but that may not reflect what her heart truly thinks. she had, in Book I, stopped the bard from singing about the war because it reminded her of Odysseus, and in her action of undoing the stitches, she procrastinates on moving on from her husband. because to move on and marry again is to affirm that Odysseus is dead. but as long as she waits, there's a chance that he'll come home.

an interesting parallel is that, in the Iliad, Odysseus uses cunning to "do action"... sabotaging the Trojans, etc. but here, Penelope uses cunning to avoid taking action, i.e., marrying again. and for their respective contexts, both taking and abstaining from action is a good thing and a sign of their quality (source).

Antinous further compares Penelope to previous legendary women, saying that she is unlike all of them:

"We never yet heard of such a woman; we know all about Tyro, Alcmene, Mycene... but they were nothing to your mother..."

as characters, only Alcmene seems to share any good traits with Penelope-- beauty, wisdom, loyalty. but Tyro is not particularly smart and certainly not loyal, and Mycene, well... there's not much lore about her anyways. so this passage sort of confused me, but a different version of the book elaborates on the comparison:

"...those who long ago were fair-tressed Achaean women- Tyro, Alcmene, Mycene..." (the Odyssey, Book II, Lines 119-20)

and here, i think it makes it more clear that Antinous is comparing Penelope's beauty with these previous women, but emphasising that unlike these women, Penelope is both beautiful AND shrewd!

i like the line because it's essentially awarding Penelope legendary-status and it's only Book 2!

now, there's some more arguing and then, of course, some portents:

"As [Telemachus] spoke, Zeus sent two eagles... they wheeled and circled about... glaring death into the eyes of them that were below."

now Telemachus has been blessed not only by Athena but by Zeus too. Halitherses, a prophet, confirms this and also says:

"I said that after going through much hardship and losing all his men, he should come home again in the twentieth year and that no one would know him..."

we learn in this passage that Odysseus' journey has been FORETOLD. everybody has already been told that Odysseus will be away for agessss but no one believes. i would say it's foreshadowing, but it's not really... we are explicitly being told that Odysseus will come home.

this makes Telemachus' mission all the more urgent... he absolutely must get rid of the suitors.

of course, the suitors are too stupid to take note, and they promise Telemachus:

"You may preach as you please... We shall go back and continue to eat up Telemachus' estate without paying him..."

this is said in direct defiance of the previous eagle omens sent by Zeus. Zeus is the god of xenia; hospitality. Xenia is not a one-way street... it is not simply that the master of the house should care for his guests, but that the guests must also be respectful and considerate of the master.

here, Telemachus has given food, much more than he ever needed to, but the suitors (the guests) have made a mess of his house. they violate xenia and Zeus' portents confirm his displeasure with the suitors. this is foreshadowing that they will receive their comeuppance soon.

however, at present, Telemachus' failure to actively get a grip on things with the suitors is an indicator that he still in the progress of becoming a man... he is still working his way towards being the Master of the House-- he doesn't yet have that total control.

Telemachus doesn't argue back with them, but instead makes preparations to travel to Sparta and Pylos looking for his dad.

then, we are treated to a really awesome scene of Telemachus praying to Athena:

"Then, Telemachus went all alone by the seaside, washed his hands in the gray waves, and prayed to Athena."

now, consider for a moment, what Odysseus does in the Iliad:

"...at the ships of the Achaeans... [Athena] found Odysseus... standing alone." (Book 2, the Iliad)

BOTH father and son go to the seaside to be alone in their thoughts. however, where Athena went to Odysseus, Telemachus is the one praying to Athena. and of course, Athena visits both of them.

to Telemachus, Athena, in the guise of Mentor, advises him:

"But mind you never make common cause with any of those foolish suitors..." (Book 2, the Odyssey)

and literally a paragraph or so later, Antinous, that creep of a suitor from before who argued with Telemachus says to him:

"Telemachus, my fine fire-eater, bear no more ill blood neither in word nor deed, but eat with us as you used to do. The Achaeans will supply you with everything- a ship and a picked crew to boot- so that you can set sail for Pylos at once and get news of your noble father."

it seems an honourable offer. there'll be no more fighting, AND Antinous promises a ship to bring Odysseus back... good right? but this is exactly the sort of temptation Athena warns Telemachus against! because if Telemachus dines with the suitors, he will become dishonourable like them. and luckily, Telemachus heeds Athena's warning and refuses.

the ship prepped, Telemachus boards it as the captain, and Athena joins his crew herself as the pilot.

she puts the suitors into a deep sleep which is important because if they are awake, they might try to prevent Telemachus' departure.

the book ends on a good note; the crew give thanks to the gods, especially Athena, unaware that she has joined their crew, which is surely a sign that they their journey will go at least a little bit better than Odysseus'.

[godsofhumanity]

BOOK I | HOMER'S ODYSSEY | LITERATURE REVIEW

SUMMARY: The Olympian gods decide that it's finally time for Odysseus to be freed from Calypso's island where the latter wishes to make Odysseus her husband against his will. Meanwhile, Athena visits Odysseus' son Telemachus in Ithaca and encourages him to first assemble the men of Ithaca and complain about the suitors who plague his house trying to woo his mother Penelope, and second, to prepare himself to travel to Pylos and Sparta in aid of his missing father.

all books / next book

before i break down the chapter, i wanted to make a note about Samuel Butler's translation and some notes he himself gives in his preface.

Butler's translation is in prose which, i think, is easier to read than the original poetic form of the book. this obviously means that some parts of the original translation are lost, but i think that in other places, the prose probably adds to the work. anyhow. if you've read my iliad review, then you know that i am not really concerned with an analysis of the language structure and other technicalities of the Odyssey, but rather, the symbolism and motifs of the text, which don't necessarily require a direct poetic translation to be appreciated.

secondly. i think it's important to understand the geographical context of the Odyssey as it helps us to better appreciate certain character motivations as well as the tediousness of Odysseus' journey.

Butler suggests that the Odyssey revolves around Trapani, Sicily and not actually Ithaca. however, i want to say that that theory doesn't really make sense because Trapani, originally formed during the Bronze Age, was held under Elymian rule (a people originally from Troy in modern-day Turkey) until the First Punic War in the 3rd century BC when the Roman Empire took over.

the Odyssey, likely compiled into a standardised, cohesive narrative by Homer after several prior years of being told as an oral tradition, is suggested to have been formed in the 8th century BC, which is,, obviously, much earlier than the First Punic War.

the map below shows the areas of Greek expansion. note that Trapani sits on the left side of Sicily, and is marked in yellow to show that it wasn't colonised by the Greeks but remained under Elymian rule until the Romans came in. what this means is that it's quite unlikely Homer would have seen Trapani, and even though many of the geographical landmarks described in the Odyssey seem to match with Trapani's landscape, for the remainder of this review, we'll just accept the general idea that modern-day Ithaca, Greece is Odysseus' Ithaca.

so, in saying that, below is a map of Odysseus' journey,, and then below that, a modern map of the world so you can orient yourself.

there was another interesting note by Butler that the Odyssey was actually written by a woman living in Trapani, but i've already gone on a tangent and i haven't even started!!!!!!! so let me skip that and you can look into it on your own time if you're curious :)

now, the last time we heard from Odysseus was during the funeral games for Patroclus... we don't actually read about the sacking of the Troy or Odysseus killing Astyanax or anything like that.. it ends with Hector's funeral and that's it.

annoyingly, the Odyssey continues its "let's-start-in-the-middle-of-the-story" style from the Iliad (the name for this technique is in medias res btw!), and Book I begins with Homer recounting, very briefly, about Odysseus having already left Troy and becoming trapped on Ogygia with Calypso.

then, we come to a familiar scene of the gods meeting together and discussing humans. something i find very interesting is that, on the discussion of men's folly, the gods say that it is mankind's own fault, and then mankind says that "it's all in Zeus' hands".

"See now, how men lay blame upon us gods for what is after all nothing but their own folly." (Zeus to the council of the gods, Book I, the Odyssey)

"...as long as my father was here it was well with us and with the house, but the gods in their displeasure have willed it otherwise..." (Telemachus to Athena, who is disguised as Mentes, Book I, the Odyssey)

obviously, context is important for these two quotes because Zeus is referring to the greed of Aegisthus in lusting over Clytemnestra even though he was explicitly warned by Hermes that he would be killed for doing so,,, and Telemachus is, unknowingly, describing the fact that Helios rightfully punished Odysseus & his crew for eating his cattle thus leading to the first delay in Odysseus' return journey... BUT, even so,, i find this battle between the philosophy of the gods vs. men intriguing. Fate is a real concept for the characters in the Odyssey... can anything be truly freely willed if everything is predetermined to Fate anyhow? idk!

anyways. after Athena leaves the council, she magically transports herself to Ithaca in 2 seconds flat, and takes on the disguise of Mentes, the king of the Taphians. Book I describes:

"Telemachus saw [Athena] long before anyone else did... said he... 'Tell me and tell me true, who you are and where you come from.'" (Telemachus to Mentes, Book I, the Odyssey)

i want to note here that Telemachus observes Mentes first! but he does not know that Mentes is Athena. he recognises her as a stranger, but he does not perceive the divine.

let's go back for a second to the Iliad in Book II when Athena flies from Olympus to the ships of the Achaeans to meet Odysseus:

"Down [Athena] darted from... Olympus, and in a moment she was at the ships of the Achaeans. There she found Odysseus... standing alone... Odysseus knew the voice as that of the goddess." (Book II, the Iliad)

there's no indication that Athena appears in disguise to Odysseus which may be the reason that Odysseus recognises her immediately and Telemachus does not. but i personally feel that this is more an indication of the growth of the respective characters.

in the Iliad, Odysseus is already a seasoned, notable warrior of his own renown. in the Odyssey, Telemachus is still a child in his father's house. he attempts to make himself a master of Ithaca as his father was, but he doesn't do this successfully-- the suitors make a havoc of his house and abuse his hospitality. he doesn't have the control that Odysseus has. he is STILL a child, still finding himself.

therefore, i believe that Telemachus noticing Mentes but not knowing that he is Athena is a symbol of his potential.. that he has the ability to be as great and honourable as his father, but is not yet there. in many ways, i think the Odyssey is as much about Odysseus' journey to reach home as it is about Telemachus journey to leave his home and become a man in his own right.

later in Book I, when Athena departs, this postulate seems to be proven true when Telemachus does end up realising who exactly Mentes is:

"With these words she flew away like a bird into the air, but she had given Telemachus courage... He felt the change, wondered at it, and knew that the stranger had been a god..." (Book I, the Odyssey)

he doesn't pinpoint that it is Athena herself... there's a difference between the earlier quote of Odysseus recognising Athena's voice as that of "the goddess" and not simply "a god" as Telemachus concludes... i don't know what happens in the rest of the book, but it would be interesting to see if Telemachus' perceptions of divinity get better throughout the books.

moving back a bit to the content of Athena's actual speech to Telemachus. her goal here is to encourage Telemachus to get a grip on Odysseus' house and to prepare himself for his father's return.

i think Homer is very explicit in making Telemachus a likeable character to his audience. he leaves no doubts in the reader's mind that, even though Telemachus is having trouble with the suitors now, he is definitely Odysseus' son and will find the strength he needs. this is shown through the comparison of the physical resemblance between Odysseus and Telemachus:

"You are indeed wonderfully like [Odysseus] about the head and eyes..." (Athena as Mentes to Telemachus, Book I, the Odyssey)

in fact, Telemachus' "ascension" to the level of reputability and status that Odysseus has begins with Telemachus' somewhat cold ordering-about of his mother Penelope when she asks the bard to change his song (he was singing about the Trojan War):

"Make up your mind to it and bear it; Odysseus is not the only man who never came back from Troy... Go, then, within the house and busy yourself with your daily duties, your loom, your distaff, and the ordering of your servants; for speech is man's matter, and mine above all others-- for it is I who am master here." (Telemachus to Penelope, Book I, the Odyssey)

i think there are two important parts in the above passage-- 1) Telemachus refers to his father directly by name, and 2) Telemachus refers to himself as the Master of the house.

on the first point, it may be nothing, but i think that Telemachus calling Odysseus by name and not by "Odysseus, my father" hints at Telemachus' distance with Odysseus. keep in mind that Odysseus has been gone more than 10 years. when he was recruited for war, Telemachus was a baby. Telemachus does not KNOW Odysseus.

even with the earlier point about Athena saying Telemachus looks like Odysseus... what would that even mean for a boy who has never even really met his dad?

i sneakily looked ahead at some of the other books and Nestor's son refers to Nestor as "Nestor, my father", and even Telemachus eventually refers to Odysseus as "my father" and not directly by his name. so i think this lapse in the use of "father" on Telemachus' part paired with the coldness of his speech to his mother, telling her essentially to "stop crying about the war, your husband is dead, get over it like everyone else has", shows Telemachus' anger with his father and his estrange-ness. at this point, it is obvious that Odysseus really needs to return RIGHT NOW if he wants even a semblance of a relationship with his family.

the second point about Telemachus calling himself the master of the house needs to, i think, be read in conjunction with the succeeding passage about Telemachus telling off the suitors in his house:

"Then Telemachus spoke... The suitors bit their lips as they heard him, and marveled at the boldness of his speech." (Book I, the Odyssey)

i don't think the suitors would have "marveled at the boldness of his speech" if Telemachus had been firm with them from the very start. no, i think that they are surprised because, previously, Telemachus wasn't very confident about anything at all.

so when Telemachus says "it is I who am master here", i think this is a "sudden" revelation. it suggests that previously, he has been running away from this responsibility. he hasn't been addressing the suitors as he should be. but, now, after meeting the goddess, he is invigorated. he is ready to go forth on his own odyssey and accept his fate.

note further, that when Telemachus berates Penelope for being miserable, in the passages preceding this moment, Telemachus himself was moping about and being miserable.

"Telemachus saw [Athena, disguised as Mentes] long before anyone else did. He was sitting moodily among the suitors thinking about his brave father, and how he would send them flying out of the house..." (Book I, the Odyssey)

this contrast of Telemachus being moody and then berating Penelope (and therefore himself) about being moody, shows his "transfiguration"... the beginning of the character development that we will continue to see in the next books.

FURTHER READING:

context for and structure of the Odyssey (sparknotes)

geographical setting of the Odyssey

[godsofhumanity]

HOMER'S ODYSSEY | LITERATURE REVIEW

some of you may remember that i read the Iliad a while back.. that was 2 YEARS AGO!!!!!! and i did a review of it,, like, a chapter-by-chapter analysis of what goes down. i had made plans to read the Odyssey afterwards but life got in the way and i never did. until NOW.

i will be reading the Odyssey for the first time in my life, and maybe i will finally join the world of enthusiastic penelope x odysseus shippers i see so frequently in the mythology sphere of [tumblr].com... but anyways. as with my reviews of the Iliad's chapters, this post will be the key navigating post in which i will link all future chapter reviews. i hope you all enjoy these posts :))

OVERVIEW: The Odyssey follows the perilous return journey of Odysseus, king of Ithaca, from the war on Troy (previously described in the Iliad). While Odysseus is busy competing against both the anger of the gods and the many wily, divine beings preventing him from reaching home, his son Telemachus must attempt to keep order in Ithaca as wild, raucous suitors attempt to woo Penelope, Odysseus' wife, believing Odysseus to be dead.

REVIEW: idk i haven't read it yet... to be edited in later!

AVAILABLE AT: read online via Guttenberg Press (Samuel Butler, 1900 prose version, same as what i am reading and will quote from)

BOOKS: I / II / III / IV

READ MY ILIAD REVIEW HERE

[godsofhumanity]

If the apple of discord was thrown down at the wedding feast of Peleus and Thetis, how did Achilles, their son, fight in the Trojan war? The timeline does not make sense to me unless you just chalk that up to the timing of the Eternal, Deathless Gods but mortals are involved. Like Paris is presumably asked right after the wedding to judge who gets the apple then he picks Aphrodite who has promised him the most beautiful woman. Does she like wait to find out who that is and that causes the delay? The story seems to go that she promises Helen, they kidnap Helen and then the war begins so like that’s a year tops in my mind but how would that give Achilles time to become the teenager he is in the war? Please help. If there is a definitive answer excellent but I also just want theories.

i really love love love this question, cus i’ve thought about it a lot, especially because i consider Paris and Achilles to be around the same age, which, as you said, would make no sense.

sadly, i don’t have a definitive answer, but i do have a theory. it’s quite long though so buckle up.

As you probably know, Aphrodite, Hera and Athena asked Zeus to solve the issue before resorting to Paris. Zeus couldn’t answer and by the timeline of the Gods, many mortal years had passed so Paris would have been born, sent away from the palace and had enough time to grow up at this point. Ares suggests him, the goddesses ask and Paris gets bribed. But he doesn’t take Helen straight away, because he’s still a goatherd at this point.

Before I finish with that, let’s get back to Achilles. One would probably assume that within the first year of Thetis’ and Peleus’ marriage, he was already born, but that’s actually not true. The couple had six sons before Achilles, but they all passed away somehow (which, i like to think, is the reason Thetis is so protective). That means, even if they all died on Day 1 of their life and Thetis conceived the very same day: 9 months x 6 = 54 months aka. 4,5 years. That’s at least 4 and a half years before Achilles was born, but I think I can safely assume it took a little longer. Let’s say 6 years (which btw is still unrealistic and would probably be horrible for Thetis’ health but I digress).

So now, Achilles is born, stuff happens: Achilles meets Phoenix and Patroclus, he gets sent to Chiron, and eventually Scyros etc. Let’s say he’s 17 when that happens. Still a teen, but old enough to get Deidamia pregnant. Realistically, Thetis would only send him away when the threat of the war is imminent, so Helen’s kidnapping happens when Achilles is 17. I tend to say Helen was around 24, Paris was maybe 21. I believe however that the Judgement of Paris happened a couple years before.

Because, consider, Paris picks Aphrodite as a goatherd, but he kidnaps Helen as a prince. So somewhere in between, Cassandra must've found him and brought him back. He then had to get used to royal life, but, more importantly, all the ships had to be ready to go to Sparta. It could've happened in a couple of days, but a couple of years isn't unrealistic either, and it fits the timeline better.

It's a bit all over the place, so here's summary:

0 years: Peleus' and Thetis' wedding, Golden Apple incident (Paris/Achilles not born)

2 years: Paris is born and abandoned.

6 years: Achilles is born.

19 years: The Judgement of Paris happens, Paris is still a goatherd.

23 years: Paris kidnaps Helen, start of the war, Achilles is aged 17

The only time ‘divine timing’ really plays a role is between the wedding the Judgement of Paris. In divine timing 19 years is nothing, just enough time for Zeus and Ares to get involved. Paris would’ve probably already held one or two bullfights at the age of 17 when he is chosen to judge between the goddesses and from then on everything runs pretty smoothly, bearing in mind the 4 years between Aphrodite promising Helen to him and Paris actually kidnapping Helen.

sorry it took so long to post this, had to get my thoughts in check then type it up :D

[godsofhumanity]

oh my god i’m gnawing at the bars of my enclosure rn this is crazy

you’re telling me that not only is ‘Priam’ an epithet of sorts, but also that Priam’s real name is “Podarkes”? ‘Podarkes’ which is much more famously an epithet for a different hero, the hero that killed Priam’s son and destroyed his city? For Achilles???

Priam’s name is Podarkes and Podarkes’ name is Achilles someone shoot me rn

[godsofhumanity]

A/N: Thematically appropriate, since I am still ill, I guess? This is a very old idea. Greek mythology again, for a change. @godsofhumanity

AO3 - KoFi

What goes around, comes around

Hephaestus held his hand above his eyes to block out the sun, which stood high in the sky for the late summer. Mount Olympus seemed terrifyingly close. ‘We’re really almost there, right?’ He asked Dionysus, who had stopped a few meters ahead. 

The young god nodded. ‘Just… a few more days.’

Hephaestus heard the slight pause between the ‘just’ and ‘a.’ It made him feel anxious. Less so then it would have at the beginning of the journey, but still anxious. ‘Is everything alright? Does it bother you that I keep asking if we’re almost there?’

Dionysus shook his head with a weak smile. He leaned against a nearby tree. ‘Not at all.’ 

Hephaestus felt the anxiety rise. It bound together in his throat, and he swallowed. ‘But something’s wrong.’

Dionysus’ smile vanished. ‘Yes, something’s wrong,’ he admitted. ‘I’ve been feeling sick.’ Hephaestus caught up with his friend and pulled him close. Dionysus coughed twice.

‘And I didn’t see it.’ Hephaestus felt his heart thumping in his chest. ‘Oh, darling, come…’ His friend felt hot to the touch. When he looked at him, his eyes were watery. 

���It’s alright. I didn’t say anything. You can’t read people’s minds, we talked about that.’

Hephaestus shushed him. When he took his friend into his arms, he seemed even lighter than usual. ‘You need rest. You need proper food. We need to set up camp for a few days.’

‘I might make you sick.’

‘I am a god.’ Hephaestus walked down the path by the riverbank, looking for a proper spot to set up camp. They would need a safe place, with sources of food and water nearby. ‘You are too, but not wholly so. I felt it the moment you came into my workshop on Lemnos.’ He felt tears welling up in his eyes. ‘I am so, so sorry. I should have paid you more attention, you have been taking care of me and you are so young…’

‘I am old in human years,’ Dionysus croaked before coughing again. 

‘Does me carrying you hurt?’

‘No.’

‘I guess even if it did, I’d have no choice. I need to bring you somewhere safe.’ Dionysus nodded. Hephaestus walked, whispering calming words, until he found a proper spot. Dionysus stood while he unwrapped a sleeping mat. ‘Lay down. I’ll put up a tent.’

‘I…’

‘Come on.’

Dionysus obliged, sitting down on the sleeping mat. When even sitting became too much, he laid down. 

When Hephaestus was done, he opened his pack. ‘You need to eat. We’ve got reserves for a couple of days, and some ambrosia, nectar. You’ll need a mix of both.’

‘I’m not hungry.’

‘Doesn’t matter.’ Hephaestus took a piece of dried fruit out of his pack. ‘Try eating a bit.’ He got the waterskin from the pack. ‘Water might become an issue. We don’t have a well nearby.’ 

‘How do you know how to take care of the sick?’

The young god couldn’t really say what was going on behind Hephaestus’ eyes when he spoke: ‘On Lemnos, sometimes, a customer, or a wife or a child of a customer, would get sick. Raising temperatures. Sore throats. They were thirsty a lot.’ He sighed. ‘They talked to me about what they did sometimes. That’s how I learned.’ He swallowed. ‘That’s also when I learned how fragile humans can be. Some of them died, even if they only had a common illness.’ Hephaestus felt the tears pressing against his eyes. ‘I don’t want you to die,’ he whispered. ‘Please, please don’t die. I don’t know where I’d be without you. Don’t tell me I would be alright.’ Dionysus looked up at him with watery eyes. ‘I wouldn’t be.’

Dionysus didn’t say anything. He began on the dried fruits Hephaestus had offered him. 

Dionysus slept badly, lying awake for multiple hours, finally falling into restless sleep only to wake up screaming and covered in sweat. Hephaestus held watch beside him, refusing to sleep at all. Whenever his friend woke up, he held him until it was better. ‘It’s alright, it’s alright,’ he whispered, even if he knew it wasn’t alright. 

By morning, the illness had developed into a throat ache that made it difficult to talk, a running nose and a burning fever. 

‘I’ll try to get some fish from the stream,’ Hephaestus whispered.

Dionysus tried to speak, but could only whisper: ‘Not hungry.’ He coughed, which hurt the very depth of his throat. 

‘Just a little bit,’ Hephaestus whispered. ‘With some nectar. You need both, but I’ll only make you eat a little bit of both.’ As long as he ate at all. 

Dionysus didn’t complain. When Hephaestus picked him up, blanket and all, he shuddered. ‘Fates…’

‘You’re burning,’ Hephaestus whispered. No time to think about it. ‘Sorry, I want to keep an eye on you.’ With his friend in his arms, he walked the little while to the riverbank. 

Hephaestus managed to catch a fish quite quickly. Dionysus held up his hand when he offered to pick him up again. 

With a pounding headache, Dionysus got up from the sandy patch. ‘I’ll walk. It’s only a few minutes.’

The few minutes became about ten minutes. When they arrived back at the camp, it took thirty minutes for Dionysus to attempt eating. 

‘It’s alright,’ he whispered, and shivered. ‘Don’t you… need… sleep?’

Hephaestus held on to him through the next coughing fit. ‘No,’ he answered. ‘I’m a god. I need less sleep than you. You need someone to watch over you.’ He swallowed. ‘The way you’ve been watching over me the past months. You think I never noticed you, at two a.m., standing guard and worrying? Or Fates, every single day when I asked some stupid anxious question and you answered it for me? Perhaps it’s my turn to stand guard and worry over you. Perhaps it’s my turn to quench your anxiety.’ He felt the tears prickling behind his eyes. ‘You’ve done so much for me. I can never hope to pay you back. Please, let me do the very least, now that you so clearly need it.’

Dionysus didn’t reply. He looked like he would cry as well. 

Hephaestus pulled the blanket straight. ‘Now get rest.’ 

Dionysus obliged. 

A/N: Sooo I used to think about the hike from Lemnos to Olympus a lot. I wrote a bit about it already, yet I always had the headcanon that Dionysus would get sick at the very end, causing Hephaestus to take care of him and really show how much he got to appreciating his friend. Also, I am aware that the journey is supposed to be like… a single hangover long. Still I enjoy it being stretched into months. Makes for bonding and drama.

[godsofhumanity]

i REALLY REALLY love it when u guys ask me for hc's because it makes me feel like im not insane and that my ideas aren't COMPLETELY whack.... but, i implore you all to please please please check my hc's masterlist before you send an ask for hcs becoz i get a lot of repeated requests and im not sure if you guys just want MORE or you didn't realise that i've already done hc's for certain gods.

my masterlist is HERE, and it is also always in my bio for quick access.

thank u, love u all ^-^

[godsofhumanity]

HC MASTERLIST

hullo everybody,, i decided to make a massive post with all my hc's on it, sorted by mythology and then alphabetically.. i thought this would make it easier for people to find what i've already written because i tend to get a lot of repeated asks (ahem, i'm looking at you Thanatos and siblings, ahem) so yeah i really hope u guys enjoy this,, it took a few hours to compile..

also, because [tumblr] has a word limit on the posts, i had to split up the Greek one across letters but yeah, this post will have everything, and it will be linked in my bio so u can easily get back to it once it gets lost over time :)

AZTEC

EGYPTIAN

GREEK (A-H)

GREEK (I-P)

GREEK (R-Z)

NORSE

MISCELLANEOUS + VISUAL

see a link not working? let me know!

──────────────── ･ ｡ﾟ☆: *.☽ .* :☆ﾟ. ───────────────

[godsofhumanity]

i think we should re-adopt some Athenian legal traditions... if somebody annoys me, i'm writing their name 6,001 times so they have to the gtfo the city (x)

[godsofhumanity]

achilles moment

[godsofhumanity]

If the apple of discord was thrown down at the wedding feast of Peleus and Thetis, how did Achilles, their son, fight in the Trojan war? The timeline does not make sense to me unless you just chalk that up to the timing of the Eternal, Deathless Gods but mortals are involved. Like Paris is presumably asked right after the wedding to judge who gets the apple then he picks Aphrodite who has promised him the most beautiful woman. Does she like wait to find out who that is and that causes the delay? The story seems to go that she promises Helen, they kidnap Helen and then the war begins so like that’s a year tops in my mind but how would that give Achilles time to become the teenager he is in the war? Please help. If there is a definitive answer excellent but I also just want theories.

i really love love love this question, cus i’ve thought about it a lot, especially because i consider Paris and Achilles to be around the same age, which, as you said, would make no sense.

sadly, i don’t have a definitive answer, but i do have a theory. it’s quite long though so buckle up.

As you probably know, Aphrodite, Hera and Athena asked Zeus to solve the issue before resorting to Paris. Zeus couldn’t answer and by the timeline of the Gods, many mortal years had passed so Paris would have been born, sent away from the palace and had enough time to grow up at this point. Ares suggests him, the goddesses ask and Paris gets bribed. But he doesn’t take Helen straight away, because he’s still a goatherd at this point.

Before I finish with that, let’s get back to Achilles. One would probably assume that within the first year of Thetis’ and Peleus’ marriage, he was already born, but that’s actually not true. The couple had six sons before Achilles, but they all passed away somehow (which, i like to think, is the reason Thetis is so protective). That means, even if they all died on Day 1 of their life and Thetis conceived the very same day: 9 months x 6 = 54 months aka. 4,5 years. That’s at least 4 and a half years before Achilles was born, but I think I can safely assume it took a little longer. Let’s say 6 years (which btw is still unrealistic and would probably be horrible for Thetis’ health but I digress).

So now, Achilles is born, stuff happens: Achilles meets Phoenix and Patroclus, he gets sent to Chiron, and eventually Scyros etc. Let’s say he’s 17 when that happens. Still a teen, but old enough to get Deidamia pregnant. Realistically, Thetis would only send him away when the threat of the war is imminent, so Helen’s kidnapping happens when Achilles is 17. I tend to say Helen was around 24, Paris was maybe 21. I believe however that the Judgement of Paris happened a couple years before.

Because, consider, Paris picks Aphrodite as a goatherd, but he kidnaps Helen as a prince. So somewhere in between, Cassandra must've found him and brought him back. He then had to get used to royal life, but, more importantly, all the ships had to be ready to go to Sparta. It could've happened in a couple of days, but a couple of years isn't unrealistic either, and it fits the timeline better.

It's a bit all over the place, so here's summary:

0 years: Peleus' and Thetis' wedding, Golden Apple incident (Paris/Achilles not born)

2 years: Paris is born and abandoned.

6 years: Achilles is born.

19 years: The Judgement of Paris happens, Paris is still a goatherd.

23 years: Paris kidnaps Helen, start of the war, Achilles is aged 17

The only time ‘divine timing’ really plays a role is between the wedding the Judgement of Paris. In divine timing 19 years is nothing, just enough time for Zeus and Ares to get involved. Paris would’ve probably already held one or two bullfights at the age of 17 when he is chosen to judge between the goddesses and from then on everything runs pretty smoothly, bearing in mind the 4 years between Aphrodite promising Helen to him and Paris actually kidnapping Helen.

sorry it took so long to post this, had to get my thoughts in check then type it up :D