#so i think the weird wishy-washy does he actually have feelings for this person is just unnecessary

[prosebushpatch]

Listen, i don’t care if it’s romantic/platonic/barely put up with, but in totk, Link and Zelda share that bed. I didn’t spend all those rupees so Link could sleep on the floor, Nintendo. You couldn’t even give him a bed under the stairs? WHERE’S THE SIGN THAT SAYS “LINK’S HOUSE” NINTENDO. COMMIT TO THE SHIP OR AT LEAST PUT TWO FRICKING BEDS IN THE HOUSE THIS IS MALARKEY

[hamliet]

the notion that bnha is pro authoritarianism or social hierarchies is nonsensical not to mention acting like being pro cop is bad

Err... BNHA is pretty pro-authoritarian. I actually find it pretty disturbing. And that's even if the story turns out with the League alive at the end.

As for being pro-cop--cops are human individuals, yes. But people have in recent years in multiple countries (including Japan, by the way) protested against cops being used as tools to maintain social hierarchies wherein people who are not part of that hierarchy suffer for daring to want to be treated as human beings. When I say I'm anti-cop, I'm not saying I hate anyone on the basis of being a cop. But I am saying that the ways in which the police force are used in many countries does societal harm. Critical thinking, yo.

Honestly I feel like this whole story (BNHA) and fans reactions throughout (especially when compared to other stories) demonstrate how people are not using critical thinking. And that can have real world consequences, though it doesn't have to.

I just find it weird that people are okay with a story where the ruling class is always right and always wins. Like... how have they not? I mean, even stories that end up suggesting the ruling class isn't entirely wrong or show flaws in rebellions generally don't go hard on the authoritarianism. But Horikoshi... is doing this.

The whole thing is so weird to me personally, too, because Horikoshi's wishy-washy framing and switches in coding generally seem to be the result of him caring, deeply, what his audience thinks and feels. Too much, really, but it also seems like he genuinely doesn't want to hurt people. Except this ending--even if Tenko does reappear as New Character and saves the League--is the exact opposite. (If Tenko doesn't reappear, then everything I'm about to say is multiplied by a thousand.)

It's catering to mean-spiritedness, and while I do understand fiction isn't reality, the side he's catering to now is making the argument that fictional crimes are real crimes and thus must meet real penalties.

I can play this game too.

If people are gonna make those arguments, I'm going to say they're the problem and the reason we have wars, genocides, assaults, and more.

If you ever want a cycle of violence/abuse to stop, someone has to accept that they've taken the last punch. Not keep going until the other side is WIPED OUT.

If you equate justice with equalizing losses, then you are enacting Dazai from BSD's statement on justice: justice is a weapon. You can never heal by it.

If you want to heal, you have to stop fighting and bandage wounds. And maybe you are too injured to do the bandaging. That's okay. But someone else can, and if you try to stop them on the premise of "but no one bandaged my wounds" you're a bitter person who makes the world a worser place.

If you say a tragedy is the story, sure. But you have to set up tragedies from the start. See, Attack on Titan, which's ending I love. It began with someone crying and an ominous message to the future. You don't set up your first chapter with "this is the story of how I become the greatest hero!" spend 200+ chapters criticizing hero society and have the hero fail at the goal he'd been repeating for 200 chapters in the end and join hero society and still think you wrote a story that delivered in what you promised. You failed.

Either you wrote a tragedy and are trying to pass it off as a happy story (see how well that works usually) or your understanding of a happy story is pretty much just fascist propaganda. And yes, BNHA does have fascist themes at this point. Way more than AoT ever did. But they have smiles and cute frog girls so it's not nearly as dangerous, right? (sarcastic).

The thing is, this is where the lack of critical thinking comes in. While I've seen people talk a bit about how BNHA seems like copaganda, it's taking things much, much further than other stories usually do and into territory where I'm frankly disturbed.

Yes, BNHA started out as a clever critique of hero society and of the very idea it's now seeming to uphold: that the human instinct (which is universal in real life to) to idolize people leads to a lack of humanity for those who do not have those traits we idolize, whether their fault or not, and for people to become villains in response. But not only has it failed to deliver on this premise by upholding society (hey, Naruto and to a degree Tokyo Ghoul also failed to completely change society), it's gone so far as to endorse what it previously criticized.

It's more akin to Game of Thrones Season 8 upholding racism, sexism, and classism, than it is to Naruto or Tokyo Ghoul. GoT ended with a joke about prioritizing brothels being open, as if the misogyny was actually a good thing and not what caused a lot of the problems. There's no critical lens here. It's just like "hey, there was no point in struggling. Monarchies that abuse women, rah rah, let's go!"

BNHA seems to be going a similar route. Deku's murder of Shigaraki, Ochaco's crying over Toga, the way Shouto reaches out to Touya--it's sad, but not framed as something the audience should see as a wrong done on behalf of heroes. In fact, the heroes are not criticized at all. Frickin' Edgeshot, whom no one cares about, is fine. All of them are fine. Their statuses are generally fine, too, except maybe Enji's and even then he's not like going to face the fate of the League and die alone. His family still supports him. Hawks is completely fine and framed positively. His regret over Twice is pure lipservice. Deku really did just need to kill Shigaraki, and all his "I want to save" spiel, much like Ochaco's, is for naught. He just needed to learn to grow up and get in line.

Even if Tenko comes back, and even if Deku like... somehow knew this would happen via vestiges or whatnot (let's be real, he will if this is the case), and the message is just that society isn't ready to move forward, but at least they can live, then... I don't know, y'all. That's still depressing. I don't see how Deku is a hero for that, much less the greatest number one hero. He decided to be a hero at the cost of his own integrity, and if this was a gritty story about the realistic struggle of living in a capitalistic society where ethics are always compromised that would make sense, but... it's not. Even until the final battle, the characters were endorsing idealism.

At the very least, Horikoshi didn't deliver on his promise in the first chapter. At the very worst, he's endorsing fascist ideals.

Like, I'm sorry, but "kill this person for the good of society," the violent upholding of oppressive societal hierarchies, the importance of being a cop hero and the way the military hero brutalities are worshipped, the way heroes are lauded and everyone who doesn't get in line with this is punished, went from being criticized to being endorsed. Those are all central elements of fascism.

The little guy deserves to lose, but, but Deku is the little guy, so it can't be! Except it can be. Because it's actually pretty common irl even to trot out examples of people like Candace Owens to be like "hey, you can't possibly say Republicans are racist!"

And don't you dare say "but Japanese culture makes it unreasonable to expect a non retributive justice!" The Japanese people are not a monolith. Not to mention... Naruto, Bungou Stray Dogs, Monster, Hunter x Hunter, Yu Yu Hakusho, Mawaru Penguindrum, Oshi no Ko, Dragon Ball, Attack on Titan, and Tokyo Ghoul all say hi.

I hated the TG ending, and still hate it, but I'm not going to say that it upheld the CCG as right all along because it didn't. BNHA thus far is doing that with hero society. And even if the answer is for the League be revived and to leave society or whatever, then how can we be happy Deku is a part of this society? How can we root for him, or his classmates? Is he going to work from the inside to change it? Why wasn't that emphasized beforehand as a theme or struggle?

tl;dr Horikoshi has cooked his story no matter what he does now, and I don't think it's salvageable. Either way it has themes that are disturbing especially considering real world events across the globe, and that people should be more aware of instead of focusing solely on stories that have fascism and monsters in them but don't uphold it.

[mixelation]

Minato starring in anti-bullying PSA after accidentally snooping on Toris fandom mail

see i have been thinking about the minato-team 4 dynamic and i think it goes

a big part of minato giving kushina a genin team is that she keeps talking about having more kids. she'll be like "naruto is me with your hair, so obviously the next one will be a girl that has my hair and your face." and minato is simultaneously like "i want ten kids with kushina" and "not only is kushina having kids EXTREMELY dangerous, but with us both working constantly, we are both struggling to give just naruto enough attention so a baby is probably not a good idea right now" and "i desperately want to give my wife everything she wants. i would kill for my imaginary redheaded baby"

so he gives her a team of cute baby ninja because if he can't distract her maternal instincts he WILL agree to another kid. and it works! except he stupidly didn't expect to get pulled into kushina's.... sensei instincts?

kushina: these random orphans are my children now. itachi, you have two moms now

team 4: wait what

and like she obviously draws a line between "my students" and "my actual child" but it's a lot more wishy-washy than a lot of jounin sensei, and it's compounded by deidara and tori not having their own family to fall back on. so minato starts like "well, kushina gets passionate about things, and i'm glad the team is bonding" but very unfortunately he's huffing the ksuhina fumes so slowly, very slowly, he's like "yeah, naruto and our assortment of ninja-children, obviously"

(a weird side effect is kushina actively becomes more maternal to kakashi? like i imagine kakashi is AROUND and he's the preferred babysitter for naruto, but it's not until he's like 22 that kushina is like "um, our SON, kakashi?" and he's like, "....what?")

and, like, AGAIN, there's a difference between "teenagers i'm mentoring" and "my actual student, kakashi" and "my actual son." but also his feelings toward team 4 are definitely different from other teenaged ninja under his command. very unfortunate for him.

anyway all mail going out of the village does get screened so he "accidentally" reads tori's mail because SOMEONE has to and he's curious. the PSA doesn't reference tori's mail but She Knows

tori: HOW COULD YOU DO THIS TO ME

minato: listen, i understand you are a tough person capable of handling her own problems, but there's no reason people should treat you like this

minato: also i know there's like a 30% chance you're going to hunt that person down and do something to them, and that would be bad for konoha PR

tori: i wouldn't do anything bad to them

minato: you say that but i've seen people after one (1) conversation with you

[henrysglock]

Not to Byler your Creelarke too much but I was thinking about a possible scenario for season 5 between Byler and Mr. Clarke. Post Byler getting together.

Maybe they have a Super Important Science Question they need answered Right Now so they head over to his place because the phones aren’t safe. And they ask their question, and get their answer, but Mike gets this idea. Mr. Clarke seems to be the right age, maybe they knew each other?

So he asks, “this is a weird question… but do you know anything about… Henry Creel?”

And Scott gives them a bit of a wishy washy answer, lots of “he was quiet and nobody really knew him…” but seems to be holding something back. And Mike gets more frustrated that he won’t be straight (ha) with them, but Will puts his arm out and quiets him, before saying, “you can trust us… we’re.. family”

And Mikes fully confused by this, doesn’t understand what he’s saying, but Will reaches over and holds his hand in his and they share a soft look before Scott sighs, and explains that he did know Henry well.

You can ALWAYS byler my creelarke because I'm a hardcore shipper of both!!

And god, yeah. This is actually the kind of scenario that's on my st5 bingo board, because Scott always has the answers. The Party knows this, so when it comes to surviving the apocalypse...who better to ask than Mr. Clarke?

Mike remembering how Bob went to school in Hawkins, and how Bob taught Scott everything he knows about AV...it wouldn't take much for him to put it together that all three of them went to school together.

Will "If there's anything you know...you can tell us. Please tell us. Anything helps." Byers vs Scott "Well, it's a bit of an odd story, bear with me..." Clarke spilling the beans on Henry and what 1957-1959 was like for them, especially re: the Creel family and Henry's pre-lab run-ins with Brenner.

Scott "He was my best friend. I haven't met anyone quite like him since, and I doubt I ever will, although...I have to say, Will...You two're remarkably similar. You remind me of him quite a bit. I think you would have liked him." Clarke vs Will "[awkward silence]" Byers

Will "Why does it feel like we have entirely the wrong guy/this reeks of Brenner" Byers going to El, who was explicitly told she doesn't have the full truth, and the two of them puzzling together the actual truth/the full truth being the key to saving Hawkins.

Willel being the solution, but only because they heard a firsthand account of Henry from Scott, the only person left both alive and accessible who truly knew/loved Henry. So many different forms of love being the key to saving Hawkins would make me so happy, actually.

[quidfree]

It's mentioned in one of the extras in bnha (by Horikoshi himself) that Bakugou isolates himself on the path to greatness as a defence mechanism since he's actually a sensitive soul...

You've written the 🌟best🌟 true to character Bakugou in all the fanfics I've ever read, so I wanted to ask how you balance Bakugou's brashness with his sensitivity, and his harshness with his specific brand of kindness. He has strong moral code/values that he staunchly follows but that's still different from the occasional bouts of care he shows to people.

Thank you 😊

hmm you know i don't know if i think that's the best 'in' to bakugou's character because while he is sensitive to a degree (dramatic crier, big emotions, not a bad people reader if he cares) i really feel like that quote is sort of overplaying that angle. bakugou's definitely got his depths but i'm leery of leaning too far into the idea he's some kind of scintillating empath that no one gets.

in terms of characterisation i'm glad you feel that way! i've written breakdowns of my characterisation before so those would be a good starting point on my analysis. but to your specific points, and focusing on teen canon bakugou:

so his base attitude is like….. constant intense commitment to his goals (🤝bakudeku) mixed with pretty solid awareness of self (will elaborate). which means at repose he’s just super serious & then you layer in the brash persona (not feigned, just exaggerated and sometimes blustering, lot of it comes from (unjustly lol) holding everything to his standard). that’s base level bakugou i think. he gets half the personality from his mom & the other is all his.

by self aware i don’t mean he’s like psychologically healthy. but he has a good grasp of his own abilities and skills. early days his blind spot are his limitations but that’s mostly bc up to that point he’s never been confronted with the fact he has any. that’s why he’s allowed so much arrogance / confidence, even when facing down sports fest or the league. he knows what he can do. rmr even early on he got worried when seeing todoroki’s abilities; he’s pissed at him at sports fest bc he’s well aware that would have been a fair fight. by now in canon that’s obviously reached a more mature self-awareness.

ig that’s kind of tied to the sensitivity point. i think bakugou isn’t bad with people; he does have a good read on them & has established leadership skills (amplified once he stops being so domineering; he and izuku have long been coded as 1A coleaders). that said younger bakugou certainly did not give a shit abt other people’s interiority so hes not exactly a bleeding heart lol. i think he’s more perceptive than empathetic (can understand but does not relate), which colors his nicer moments- and i say that with love, bc i think that’s more interesting.

bakugou is just a harsh / brash guy- very direct, abrupt and in your face with it. that’s his fighting style, his personal style, his communication style, even his choice of hobbies; he doesn’t tolerate wishy washy bullshit and isn’t one for niceties. that said he can keep in line / watch his approach around authority figures, bc he’s a pretty pragmatic guy. that also comes thru in his fighting. he will mouth off within reason.

the interpersonal struggle for him is that in UA he was forced out of his top dog role real quick and it made him extra aggro/tsundere bc he spent way too long only interacting w peers from a superior position or as extras, so having to connect on a genuine level w people he would once have seen as below him feels weird and overly exposing. it obviously starts going better for him as development marches on, especially when there’s like a concrete common goal involved. i think he’s consciously trying to find a happy medium by later in canon- see the ‘casual’ way he hangs around cracking jokes abt dabi when they’re trying to support todoroki, snarky but present. from what i gather his current default is to veer overly serious but that’s also bc canon is very Dark and Serious rn.

the moral code thing is funny bc OG flavor bakugou has less of that and more of an understanding of the rules he’s playing by to win. the league disgusts him bc theyre baddies yes but also bc they’re losers. bc bakugou at that point is an asshole teen bully who told his childhood bestie he was less than nothing as a daily hobby, and i don’t doubt that he could have gone down the endeavor route had he not had common sense knock him around a few significant times. that said he does certainly always have sort of a personal code of, idk, self-discipline and aiming to exceed all expectation, but that ties back to what i’ve already addressed. anyways by present day he’s obviously recalibrated his moral compass massively but it’s always most interesting to me in the minor personal detail- for example, his kneejerk “my mom used to knock me around and i’m fine!” reaction to justify beating kids up but then begrudgingly letting todoroki lead their approach because he recognises his input on the subject. it’s consistent writing because it’s not that he’s a perfect saint now, but he is growing.

this is very long and very late, but tldr those are my takes on your questions!

to me bakugou is one of the best written parts of bnha, but he is a complicated character to get right if you don’t have a good handle on why he works so well- i don’t know if i’ve made that more or less confusing for you but i’m hoping the latter.

[cielsosinfel]

cataloguing some twitter + bluesky threads about fc4/pajay thoughts (currently taking a break from revisiting it because of BG3 worming into my brain) (laugh track)

2:50 PM · Sep 18, 2023

something I've been stuck thinking about as I read all this FC4 fic from my time in the fandom a decade ago, and newer stuff written in the years since… very few people actually have Ajay go to Pagan's side over the Golden Path because of his mother

Like, outside of the secret ending. Stories mostly have him going over to Pagan because horny or because "damn the Golden Path is full of lunatics" (which bugs me for another reason lol the like. flanderization? of Amita and Sabal to the point it just reads like character-bashing

But anyway it's just like. I keep thinking about it. Ajay only goes to Kyra because his mother wanted her ashes laid to rest there. He has no idea what her relationship to the country's politics was. He has no idea who his father is at all. He just wants to be a dutiful son

And grieve, and do this for himself as much as for her. When he gets with the Golden Path, he keeps hearing Mohan Ghale, Mohan Ghale, Son of Mohan- why should this name meaning anything to him? His father was in his life for what, less than a year, he has 0 memory of him

So few people acknowledge Ishwari as a person. She's "Mohan's wife," "Mohan's child bride," I can't remember exactly but I'm pretty sure she's also mentioned disdainfully for "betraying" the GP because of everything with Pagan… no acknowledgment of her role in founding the GP

Everyone placing all of these expectations on Ajay's shoulders because he shares a name and blood with a man who may as well not exist in his life, and no one sparing a single kind word for the mother who he loved for 20+ years and lost just a few months ago

EXCEPT Pagan

When he has, on one side, Sabal who projects his ghost of a father all over Ajay while pushing him to go murder people for him, and Amita on the other who starts out hating him because of that same ghost of his father while pushing him to go… murder more people!

does it not make sense he'd get tired and upset and start considering reaching back out to the one single person in what feels like the whole country who knew Ishwari's name without Ajay even speaking it, and knew exactly where Ajay needed to go to lay her to rest

this is my tl;dr thoughts i've had all weekend

idk where i'm going with this and no one on here has even played this game good bye

if he even cared about the ethics at all, because this is a Far Cry game, ethics are kind of wishy-washy across the board

honestly i'm definitely putting more thought into ajay's emotional interiority and reactions than the game writers did

~~~~

Sep 19, 2023 at 6:39 AM

& yknow, I think there's something to be said of the fact Pagan is the only person who never asks Ajay to kill someone for him. Unless you count the moment at the end where he suggests Ajay kill him even though it'd be Boring (and I do think he was full aware Ajay might actually go through with it.)

also think it says something he spent 20+ ys avoiding assassination attempts, only to sit there literally defenseless, waiting for the last remainder of a weird broken family he almost had to shoot him. After 20+ yrs of grief warping him. I'm turning this over in my head now

Sep 21, 2023 at 6:29 PM

another FC4 thing: I thought Pagan was the only non-Kyrati-native character that pronounced Ajay's name as "AH-jay" but apparently… Paul does too………? The choice to have Paul of all characters pronounce it AH-jay, but then Noore pronounces it A-J.. I wanna know how they decided these things

Sep 21, 2023 at 6:07 PM

Will I get suspended here for talking about how horny I am for Dadson, pseudo or not, and how insane FC4 in specific is making me right now

Pagan is SOOOO ATTACHED to ajay's simultaneous benefit (never at risk of Pagan's Actual wrath) and detriment (pagan being an overbearing creep forever)

[gunkreads]

I did end up finishing Baptism of Fire this week. I kinda... don't have much to say about it (future gunk here: don't believe his lies). I've gotten to the point with the Witcher series where it's very reliant on reader buy-in. I'd almost say this is a natural consequence of the concept of "a series", but this feels different.

The following phrasing tends toward the negative a lot. That tone doesn't reflect my feelings on the book; I liked it quite a bit. I just think the negative tone kind of illustrates my point better. Also I'm kind of a hater so it's my natural writing voice.

I think a lot of book series tend to evolve and come into their own, so to speak, as they progress (that feels inane to even say). The Witcher is, on the surface, no different--it really does continue to move along the tracks it sets for itself in the short stories and earlier books. It starts to add curves and bumps to those tracks, though, in that it starts to feel like the author (slash translator, for me) is kind of side-eyeing you for a reaction to any given story beat, then seeing that it didn't make you quit reading and tweaking the gears behind the curtain a little.

It's like it's a subtle satire of the concept of reader investment. Instead of using buy-in as a tool to facilitate progressively moving toward a unique ideal of the author's, as I find most stories do, it seems to use buy-in as a go-ahead to redefine that "unique ideal". This is a bad explanation. I'm trying really hard to put it into words. It's not that the series is wishy-washy or disrespectful of your time--it's both clear and concise--but it definitely seems like it's constantly asking you to reassess its structure from top to bottom.

If I had to really reach for a solid explanation, I'd say this is best represented by the traveling sequences. In Baptism of Fire, the story that Geralt lives is completely stagnant in relation to his goals as a person. He's trying to find Ciri. He makes, and I cannot stress this enough, literally zero progress. He's just fuckin' walkin' places. He makes some friends, loses some friends, makes more friends, finds the ones he lost... etc. The parts of the book focused on him are about assessing who he is as a character and how his goals are misaligned with the methods he believes he has to use to achieve them--namely, that he can't find Ciri alone. He has to go through like a hundred revelations and a couple quasi-apotheoses before actually getting the guts to ask his incredibly loyal friends and companions for help. It's almost funny, and it's a very fun example of how deep emotional change could happen in an old and very, very, deeply sad guy, but it necessarily takes a long fucking time!

This constant feeling of stumbling forward on a treadmill really leaves me feeling like Sapkowski & translator are asking me to put the book down and write an essay about Geralt's character. Which I guess I'm doing, so... Andrzej, one point for you, I fucking guess.

For real though, this book series feels like it's toeing the line of what can be called "pretension". Is it pretentious to insert tone into your book that makes the reader feel like they're being asked to deeply analyze a character? I'd say yeah, it probably is, and I love that shit, but... there is a lot to say about Geralt! He's not devoid of meaning! He just doesn't have THAT much meat to him.

I can still wholeheartedly recommend the Witcher books to anyone who loves gritty low fantasy--it's pretty close to being a paragon of the genre--and I do think Baptism of Fire was probably the most fun book in the series so far, but I really wanted to talk about this weird feeling I had the whole time while reading it.

I also might be hallucinating.

[golbrocklovely]

Thank you for your response, although i have to disagree with one thing. Because after everything i saw it really doesn’t look like fans do not want to hate on Sam, hell, i’ve seen plenty hate for Sam, especially on Twitter. F.e when Katelyn and Sam were still together and people found out about them, it wasn’t only Katelyn that received hate, Sam has been trashed as well. Most of the tweets aimed at him were saying how horrible of person he is for doing that to Kat, how he is a liar, because he said that he will Marry Kat and now he is with another woman. If anything i’ve seen almost nothing but hate for Sam lately.

Like f.e even comparing to what i see regardless of Colby and Malia and what i saw when it came to Sam and Katelyn. Cause when it comes to CnM relationship i mostly saw ONLY hate for Malia, people claiming that she is controlling colby, that she is toxic and that poor colby have no idea of that and that “they hope he will realize soon” (such a clownshit). But on the other boat i saw both parties receiving hate.

Although ofc that it’s not a competition and both boys unfortunately receive hate every day for basically breathing air and i think that some fans needs to seriously grow up asap. Those men are not their toys.

maybe i didn't explain myself enough. what i was trying to say is that while sam, in the past, didn't get hate for things that this fandom would hate colby for, once he broke up with kat and started dating katelyn, that was the first time i actually saw real vitriol for him. on top of actual critiques/calling him out for things.

but even now, since he's broken up with her, things have turned back in his favor. not completely, of course. but hell, ppl were cheering him on for the way he was responding to katelyn and her tomfoolery lol and weirdly i think that behavior exhibited by him made certain fans like him again. bc he was petty and mean… like they are.

this fandom, since kat and his' breakup, has been weirdly wishy washy with him. bc sometimes they love him DOWN and it don't matter what he does, but then other times they think he's a terrible fucking person and name call him to hell. i mean, prime example was when kat released her songs. of course you had ppl hating on kat, and that was dumb bc she's allowed to say how she feels about her own breakup, but then you had ppl full on defending him and acting as if she shot him or something. but then there were fans that were also calling him out for being a pos and not doing enough during the relationship. but eventually that slowly fizzled out. then tides turned on him when he took katelyn to the same date spot he took kat first. and this cycle of liking him then hating him went back and forth until he broke up with her. now you have fans saying he does all the work for snc and colby's not pulling his weight.

it's weird. the only real time i saw ppl question him was when he was with katelyn. every other instance ppl treated him the same as usual. idk if it's bc ppl just hated katelyn so much that they eventually had to take it out on him bc how dare he choose her over kat or if it was something else entirely. but it was very odd to see him actually get real hate for merely dating someone, when that has been happening to colby for years now.

as for malia and colby's relationship, both of them have had terrible things said about them. with malia, it's mostly about her looks. for colby, it's tearing down his personality or his choices. or just in general making fun of both of them as a couple for being cringy and in love with each other.

and like you said, truly nobody in this situation deserves hate. not the girls, or snc, or kat for that matter. snc did nothing wrong except love someone that fans didn't like. i know i've been yelled at before on here for bringing up sam's inability to be critiqued by the fandom bc "what do you want? both them to get hate???" and it's like… no. i don't want anyone to get hate. but if you're gonna hate on colby for something that sam IS ALSO DOING, keep the energy the same. that's all i ask. or at least admit you have a bias towards sam and nothing he does is wrong, but everything colby does is.

(not saying that's what you think or that you're yelling at me lol just talking about past convos i've had on here).

or, crazy concept, if everyone could just stop hating and be nice to snc, the ppl you're supposed to be FANS OF, that would be nice too.

[meowingfawn]

my relation to my fict. types

a little self explanatory, a post about (at least some of) what connects me to my ficto kintypes honestly for some it isnt super clear, brain just went 'me'. i think ill leave the ones that have that feeling out since i wont really have much to say about them

i think all of these guys also have the feeling of "thats me" so i wont be including that in the info, but i do feel connected to them all with a sense of, thats me.

with that stated, lets start!

frisk

trauma, also probably influenced by a connection to undertale as a whole. i think the other ways i feel like them other than trauma are like, appearance, feeling pure of heart in a way while also feeling like you are the farthest from innocent. undertale feels like a familiar place to me, even though i actually was never heavily involved the fandom (and i dont even know all/majority of the lore! ive never done a genocide run, or seen a playthrough of one. just bits and pieces of a lot of lore)

steven universe

trauma heavily, its actually kind of weird how similar our traumas are, as well as literally so many small aspects of our lives. i could go on and on about things in our lives that are basically mirrored but not sure if i would feel comfortable with that lmao. other than that, yet again i am very bonded to steven universe as a franchise. the places dont feel the same as undertale, i can assume this is because undertale is a game and i usually feel like i am 'there' when im playing games, and shows you dont really get that, more so just observing everything. (unless you make fan content or indulge in fanfiction ofc)

twice/jin bubaigawara

trauma and sense of identity. i have really weird system stuff that i feel relates to twice's experiences. also, strange addition to this but i find that i do the back and forth with myself like twice does, im not sure if its my tics or what but sometimes i will just say stuff that sounds aggressive and i follow it up by something more sweet, or trying to comfort or apologize to whatever i just insulted or complained about (its like. almost always not actually a person). not sure if ive done that recently, tbh i dont pay attention to it much anymore.

himiko toga

honestly, i feel her obsessive behavior very much, its somewhat a cope on my end but mentally ill as i am i have become very obsessed with people like this sometimes! as well as just. being very not normal about men sometimes, plinKing rn. (/ref) this one is pretty personal to me but i feel like i take some comfort in relating to toga. i do feel like i have been doing better mentally when it comes to this stuff, but it still makes me feel better to hold her close in my mind and know she is just like me.

tomura shigaraki

i need to rewatch mha. i need to rewatch mha...i dont remember that much about this kin feeling- i think honestly it was getting muddled between system-related stuff and kin stuff, but i do still feel a connection to shigaraki, i feel like its wishy washy on if he feels like 'me' or not. still included it for the sake of saying this

gir

EXTREME silly, just like me. weirdly emotionally shifting between upset and silly, and also sometimes serious. relate. also i am such a little guy, i am !!!!!

[sonia-marmeladova]

it always sounds trite in the Mature Intellectual Circles to talk about loving and knowing Jesus, probably because 1) people hate being talked at about religion, understandably 2) people think religion must be loftier and more transcendant than this Jesus guy 3) they don’t really like the apparent restrictions that Jesus would seem to place on them. like most people are willing to believe in God as some impersonal force just not this whole Jesus business. isn’t it a little convenient that if God exists then He doesn’t care about you specifically and allows any specific behavior you have, good or bad? does Jesus sound trite or too wishy washy? like if religion was invented by a high school girl then she would want God as her personal cosmic boyfriend and that’s who Jesus is (which… is actually fine btw i think we just hate teenage girls but that is beside my point) the thing is when you get down to what and who Jesus is - a Person Who is supposed to be covenantal love incarnate, an actual divine Person who became human and therefore touchable, embraceable, knowable, killable, etc, a Person who wants you to be divinely free as Himself, a Person who promises to satisfy the true and deepest yearnings of your heart and reconcile everything in you into One, into harmony, a Person who promises that you are more than any bad thing or event or trauma and can work any evil out to something good…then why is there such a strong aversion? God as a concept is better than what we can imagine, so why is it weird or trite to suggest God is something so personal, human, and loving? does it make us feel arrogant and cool to pre-emptively deny that God would do something like become a human and personally love you? why do we hate ourselves so much that we have to anchor every beautiful idea into something More Realistic but also uglier? are we so convinced of our own ugliness that we assume that’s what the truth is? are we terrified of confronting the idea that everything we’ve ever done has actually been viewed and known by a God who could condemn it for you? does it scare us that God might exist but might in some way not satisfy our desires and thus it’s easier to make Him a more impersonal force? if you believe in anything why would you believe in a God that does anything else but desires your sincere freedom and wants to raise you into divine life? could it be because following the laws of God seem hard and too cruel?

that the core claim of Christianity involves God loving you personally and individually & that God intends human beings for sincere freedom, joy, peace, hope, but mainly love, etc.… is enough of a reason to believe in it. What’s beautiful must be true.

[yuikomorii]

I don't know about others, but I'm an avid ayayu shipper but I think that Rejet should try balancing out ayayui with other ship material, especially with material involving storylines. I get that many and the CEOs probably like ayato and Yui together a lot, but what got me is the manga's weird execution and just randomly shoving Ayato x Yui in there. I was under the impression the manga would explore the Sakamaki boys' minds, and while we got a bit of the others, it ultimately seemed focused on Ayato's experiences again often making him go through "it" the most.

I always know there's a poster boy, but sometimes it does feel like others' content gets half-assed or it's hard to just ignore ayayui when a lot of good/main content is centered around ayato/ayayui. I think the DL fandom has other boys who are more popular than ayato or just really popular in general, so I don't think people are tripping when hey expected a good manga that went into depth on the Sakamaki's backgrounds, but ended up with a more wishy-washy plot and just ayayui being thrown in there.

Like I said, they're my main ship, but I don't like the "fate" thing they had going on, which sort of invalidated HDB's 1st encounter or just other DL boy ships. I haven't been in other otome fandoms for a few months, but (correct me if I'm wrong anybody) I personally never experienced the poster boy being pushed this much, while others were either lacking in quality material or just weren't as promoted. Maybe this is because DL has 13 boys, but that's not an excuse if it is the case since Rejet decided to continue adding boys just like how it's their right to choose a poster boy.

Feel free to disagree of course, but I just wanted to share my thoughts!

//I actually get what you mean.I don’t think that’s fair either,as I said in one of my previous posts,I liked the last panel but I wish it never existed because that ruins their whole first meeting.

I sincerely assumed he was born as Adam,I thought Karlheinz knew that and made Cordelia abuse him only to make him show his true potential but adding that fig made everything worse.I’m 100% sure his love for Yui is genuine NOW but at the beginning ,due to that fig it honestly seems fake.

Actually,nobody can be more popular than Ayato worldwide.I made a post once about it but in Japan he’s not actually the most popular one,which is weird because Rejet and other otoge companies usually focus on the Japanese audience rather than on the western one but that’s just a case of bias from Rejet,I guess.

I was hoping to see way more.I thought there would have been more plot,I wanted to see the Mukami brothers so bad because they’re my favorite family,so I was really happy to see them on that cover but jokes on me :// I’m gonna be honest,I don’t really like the Sakamaki family,sure they help each other sometimes but other times they’re so against each other that they piss me off*coughs*Lost Eden*coughs*

The YB manga would have been way better if it focused on the thoughts of the Diaboys,their past or bonds rather than on the process of becoming Adam.Ayato was known to be Adam since More Blood and I had nothing against it because it was obvious,yet it didn’t have to be literally confirmed in a manga when mostly fans were aware about it.Don’t get me wrong,Ayato is indeed the most heroic out of everyone and he doesn’t deserve hate for eating that fig since he got no other choice but as an Ayato stan,I wasn’t in need for 8 chapters about his “Becoming Adam”story.I get it,he was the odd one,he was sad while trying to act brave,he was used as bait and left there all alone,he still cared for others and so on but Rejet could have shown how heroic he is in other type of circumstances.They could have made him…idk,perhaps defending one of his brothers or finding out something interesting?

I’m not a fan of the”I’m different from the others”trope.I feel bad for him,I truly do but it feels as if Rejet made him overcome all his problems while others are still struggling.They could have developed his thoughts rather than simply making him Adam,he could have proven himself to be the best in another way but nooo,they had to suddenly make him the most important character out of the blue.I know it’s pure fiction but not everything works like that,sometimes you simply should accept yourself the way you are,no matter if you’re an outcast or not.I really loved the fact that Ayato wasn’t perfect,he was mean,childish,insecure, a dummy sometimes but I loved these sides of him yet looking back at his routes,they truly changed him.In his LE Good ending,he is shown being very mature and responsible,he has no insecurities anymore because he became a good king and everyone starts respecting him.Of course,I love seeing him happy but is that really Ayato?I mean yeah,those qualities are a plus but Rejet shouldn’t forget how his true personality is.One of the reasons why I love his MB Good ending and After Story so much is the fact he doesn’t become king there.That’s not his dream,but his mother’s one.He accepts himself the way he is without becoming what she wanted him to become,and that’s fine because he literally entered University and kept on having a normal life with his wife/Yui,as they deserve.

While I enjoyed seeing Yui there(because I’m Yui content starved),that wasn’t the right time to introduce her.Yeah,she is the heroine but Young Blood was about the boys’ past ,therefore it had nothing to do with her.Not everything in DL needs to be about romance,sometimes fans are only seeking for plot or more details about their favorite Diaboys.

I’m saying this again,Ayato deserves much hype but not everything has to be about him,nor about Yui or Ayayui.People just want to get more content of their comfort boys and that’s understandable.

[13eyond13]

weird q but how do you picture death note boys (light, L, mello, near) in a relationship? do you think they'll have a softer side for their loved ones or they'll act as they usually do with them as well? more affectionate maybe?

LIGHT: He'd hate insecure clinginess and people acting overly familiar and emotional and possessive with him the most, probably. He's very used to having people chase him around and vie for his affection and time, and I think it's a big turn-off for Light to see somebody as desperate for him. He probably would enjoy the relationship being sort of secretive in one way or another, as well. He's definitely not socially anxious or shy, but I do think he is normally a pretty introverted person who likes his privacy and alone time when he's not just doing a bunch of social obligations to fit in. I think he would both kinda like smugly showing off a bit in public with whoever he was with, and also want to keep a lot of things about the relationship private as well. He probably really gets a kick out of sneaking around, even when he doesn't necessarily have to be secretive about what he's up to. A good sign that Light genuinely likes somebody is that he gets a lot more playful and strange and goofy around them and forgets about being unimpressed and aloof all the time, I think. He seems to reserve that mischievous weirdo side for people who are actually entertaining and interesting to him in some way. And I think that if he really did like somebody he'd be prone to secretly being pretty devoted to and romanticizing of them in a surprisingly loyal way, as well

L: I think he'd both be extremely obsessive and one-track minded and nosy in a relationship, but also really aloof and difficult to read and non-clingy at the same time as well. He'd probably be prone to spoiling and coddling his partner and also kind of neglecting his partner at different turns, just depending on where his attention is currently fixated and how he's feeling at the time. Much of what he actually thinks about his partner would be kept to himself or wrapped up in dry humour or cryptic/sassy remarks, and much of what he thinks about them will also be incredibly bluntly shared without warning. So they'd have to be someone who prefers a bit of mystery and distant/ironic teasing humour, and who can also dish it right back to him sometimes, too. And I think that even though he'd be kind of obsessive over his partner he'd also want to maintain quite a bit of independence from them in order to spend time on his own interests, so he'd prefer it if they had a life of their own and other hobbies and interests as well. But that if he did actually find the sort of person he'd want to be in a romantic relationship with that they'd probably be his favourite person ever, and the only one he really cares about hanging out with and talking to 99% of the time, too

MELLO: I think he'd definitely want somebody he could always be real with and feel like he could trust. I think he prides himself on being independent and self-reliant, so somebody laid-back and supportive who'd give him space when he needs it and doesn't try to make him choose between their relationship and his other dreams and goals. I think he always wants to even out the balance with people if they do him a favour of some kind, so not anybody he'd ever feel inferior to or indebted to, either. I feel like he'd be pretty good at telling people exactly how he feels about them without getting embarrassed about it, too. I think he really hates murky ambiguity and indecisiveness and nonconfrontational behaviour in other people. Probably does his best to avoid being around it, and to never be the kind of person who exhibits that sort of wishy-washiness himself

NEAR: he'd also be pretty good at being forthright with his partner about his feelings for them, I think. He wouldn't want to play any mind games with them so much as just have a genuine connection with them and keep things pretty supportive and straight-forward and sincere. I think he'd both be really affectionate and kind of stand-offish too all at once, because I think he needs to have his own autonomy and space a lot of the time too. So somebody who understood that and didn't get offended by him needing to be alone and not wanting to do some of the same things they want to do at times. His idea of being close to them would probably be talking to them frequently about deeper subjects that have been plaguing his mind lately, giving them thoughtful presents, working together with them on things that they're both interested in, and just chilling together in the same room doing their own things separately, too.

[trashlie]

Nol & Alyssa’s Past

Recently I’ve been thinking a lot about what happens when Nol and co find out about Alyssa’s past with Shinae. I, and I think a lot of fandom, have kind of always assumed that it will cast her in a bad light and could be a big breaking point for Nol, assuming he’s still with her. It would especially be jarring for Dieter and Soushi to learn, because they seem to have enjoyed her companionship (feels weird to call it friendship lol) in the past - especially Soushi who has always seemed to harbor a crush on her. Nol finding out that his girlfriend was entangled in a bad way with Shinae in the past and neither told him seems like the kind of thing that would upset him -- which got me thinking. 

Firstly I think it’s important to acknowledge that when it’s revealed and the circumstances really matter. The closer to the current point of the story, I think the worst it could blow up, but this is just because of the thoughts I’m about to ramble about. I think we already will see some contention between with Nolyssa based on his guilty verdict, depending on if it’s ever leaked that they’re together, but that’s a whole other matter. Nol right now is still somewhat rash and emotionally reactive and I think learning about their altercation - and that they kept it from him - would be upsetting, and it’d be like he’s learning about a side of Alyssa he never knew about (or maybe that he ignored). 

Even though Nol has made it clear he’s walking away from his friends, how much would he care that someone he’s dating hurt someone he clearly cares a lot about? Some might argue that Nol cares more about Shinae and his friends than he does Alyssa, so would he be able to stomach being with someone like that? 

It’s very important to note that we also this way because we view the altercation through Shinae’s memories. Even thinking of it as an accident (which, for the record, I think it is; I don’t think Alyssa at all intended to hurt Shinae), we know that she had already turned on Shinae to fit in and we know the ramifications of that fall. Even though it was an accident, it left Shinae with a vast, physical scar and heaps of trauma she’s yet to work through. We also can believe, as we’ve been given no indication otherwise, that Alyssa never actually apologized to Shinae. Part of Shinae’s trauma with that is that she herself never gained closure - she doesn’t know why Alyssa treated her like that and she has insecure and fearful feelings regarding the incident in her memory. If Alyssa never apologized, Shinae never made peace, and she never really moved on. This is really evident during the Black and White Formal Arc, when Shinae comes face to face with Alyssa for the first time. Shinae’s uncomfortable unease and attempts to ignore the elephant in the room just feel so much like she never resolved her feelings. Later, when Maya and Shinae go shopping, Shinae spots Alyssa on a coffee ad and there’s no feelings of anger - which would be well and good had Shinae confronted those feelings already, but she hasn’t. She continues to compartmentalize and shove her feelings away to fester, rather than face them the ugliness that comes with.

As readers, we know this, so we are inclined to dislike Alyssa for this. We also bear witness to her wishy-washiness, the way she has treated Nol, we are aware that she is a person who operates first and foremost for her own personal gain and that sometimes this has hurt other people. 

I point this out because it leads me to my main question: how would Nol actually feel to learn this piece of history? He once said he can’t expect his girlfriend and his friends to actually be friends - but he doesn’t really know how far from it is he is. 

I think as readers we want to believe that Nol would defend Shinae. Even if he doesn’t say it, it is very clear that Shinae means a lot to him and that her friendship is not something easy for him to let go of, and that it’s because he truly does not believe himself worthy of people’s friendship and that he can only drag them down that he does. Which is what actually got me thinking... as someone who thinks lowly of himself, who believes he has caused at least two incidents of trauma, as someone who literally created a whole persona and hid so many truths from his own friends... would Nol actually see Alyssa in a bad light? 

This is what I mean by I think this depends on when and how Nol learns of their history. If it comes out later, when he’s a little more mature, when he’s maybe come out on the other side of this whole jail thing, when maybe he’s been able to change his image, he could look back on his own past and go ah... sometimes we make mistakes but those mistakes do not define us, we can still become better versions of ourselves. (Of course maybe by such a time Nol would have grown and learned that the things he blames himself for never were his to blame but regardless, I think that sentiment would remain.) It’s debatable if Nol and Alyssa would ever be together still in such a point in the future, but this whole thing is hypothetical anyway. 

I’m not saying that in the future he WOULD think this way, but rather, I think there’s potential for it. Often, the characters do not react the ways we immediately expect them to. We like to think that Nol, a person who believes people should be treated fairly, would be upset to learn about the kind of person Alyssa has been. But... doesn’t Nol kind of already know? He knows why Alyssa is with him. He’s watched her dance with famous men when she’s too tired to dance with him. He’s watched her brown-nose a woman who instills actual fear in him. Nol knows all of this and he’s still with Alyssa for the sake of their agreement. And given that he already thinks of himself as a person who has made mistakes, I think there’s even a possibility that he might think he even suits someone like her. 

This doesn’t rule out the possibility that he’d be upset to find out about this, of course! More upsetting than Alyssa causing such a serious injury would probably be how she responded to it - that, as far as we know, she never made amends and how she treated Shinae when they first met up, as if they used to be such good friends and nothing at all ever happened (because she clearly was trying to save her image). Beyond that, he feels immense guilt for Shinae’s fall in the pool, and is haunted by that, with the fear that he will only hurt those he cares about, so Shinae’s side of things could sway him more. It’s one thing to cause an accident - he believes he did, too - but another thing to be the cause of so much trauma for Shinae, to be the reason it was so difficult for her to open up and trust people treat herself with patience and kindness. Granted, Nol isn’t necessarily likely to know these things, so maybe thtat’s a moot point. 

Anyway this is very rambly but I thought it kind of interesting to explore this thought and how I don’t think we ever consider much the likelihood that Nol’s own situation and experiences very well could give him a different reaction to that news than we expect. I’m curious to hear what other people think, though! 

(Going to try to post a shorter more concise version of this to reddit lmao so enjoy this ridiculously long post, it’s been a while lol) 

[shihalyfie]

Daisuke and Miyako

Daisuke and Miyako have a very interesting relationship, given that it’s never given anything you could call front-and-center in 02, and yet is actually one of the more prominent dynamics among the 02 cast in practice. How? Well, let’s talk about it.

It’s rather common for 02 fans to endearingly call the kids “idiots” (and especially after Kizuna, where they’re not only idiots but also idiots with the terrifying power of being recognized by society as adults). They are an incredibly chaotic group, and while all six of them are guilty in some way or another, Daisuke and Miyako are probably the ringleaders of that chaos, since the other four tend to facilitate it by being enablers.

Both Daisuke and Miyako have a similar surface temperament -- they’re messy, all over the place, and not exactly the epitome of dignified, but they’re also just slightly off from each other that it does lead to some degree of friction. Daisuke, despite ostensibly seeming abrasive on the surface, is actually quite deferential and will often “deflate” when people criticize him, or at least, even if he does lash out, it’ll be more in a defensive sense that comes from him thinking he’s being made fun of or attacked. Miyako, on the other hand, is absolutely someone who will go on the aggressive, make her opinions clear and continue to aggressively put her foot down at anything she hates, is more fond of physical contact (both in an aggressive fighting manner and in an affectionate hugging manner), and will easily get much more impatient and demanding about what she wants. You can see them both in action when they bicker over a dumpling in 02 episode 37; Miyako’s the first one to jump on Daisuke for taking “her” dumpling, Daisuke lashes back at her defensively, and then Miyako starts physically manhandling him. They’re both brash, so of course it naturally leads to some friction, because they don’t really give off the appearance of being happy-happy-joy-joy with each other.

But just because they’re prone to bickering doesn’t mean they dislike each other! In fact, 02 was quite big on the concept of friends being able to do more aggressive things with each other because they trust each other so much, most infamously Yamato punching Taichi in episode 10 with full awareness that Taichi wouldn’t take it badly.

Daisuke and Miyako, in particular, come off as the type to be specifically comfortable with their exact level of bickering-and-yet-closeness. As I’ve pointed out a few times, they never used any honorifics for each other, even though Daisuke normally treats his elders with respect and Miyako uses the proper -kun for most younger boys. Miyako will even go as far as sometimes calling Daisuke with second-person anta (Japanese generally discourages second-person when it’s avoidable, and especially clipped/slang versions like this, so Miyako is effectively handling Daisuke roughly). But whenever circumstances cause one of them to start acting weirdly polite or endearing to the other, it’s made clear that the other finds it really weird.

So in other words, it seems like once the two met and started hanging out together as part of their group of Chosen Children, they unconsciously identified each other as fellow disaster children (or, at least, not worth keeping a sense of polite distance with). And really, they don’t actually “bicker” all that much as much as it’s more like bantering -- Daisuke’s an easy target for teasing but can easily deal with Miyako being so in-your-face, and conversely Miyako can take a lot of Daisuke’s lashing out without taking it too personally.

This is especially interesting when you take into account the fact that they don’t actually even pretend to dislike each other! Certainly, the way they’re prone to bantering and not necessarily even that self-aware means they probably wouldn’t be able to easily say upfront that they’re close with each other, but they also don’t really put on the air of disliking each other at all, and are perfectly happy to work together like they’re partners in crime at times. Miyako is very straightforward about recruiting Daisuke into her little scheme to force Iori and Ken to get along in episode 30, and they’re happy to cheerfully play with each other and act generally in-sync like in episode 38.

(The incident in episode 30 is also of interest because it’s also subtly reminiscent of their overall dynamic -- Miyako’s the one who actively hatches the plan that ultimately ends up in disaster, with Daisuke simply agreeing and playing along.)

In fact, I would even dare to venture saying that prior to Ken’s bonding with the group, Miyako was probably Daisuke’s closest friend (even if it’s unlikely he’d have admitted it). With Daisuke putting Hikari on a pedestal due to his crush on her, having difficulty with Takeru not really being straightforward and constantly on the defensive around him, and Iori requiring polite and distant handling in general, Miyako was the right combination of someone he could bounce off of without necessarily offending her deeply (especially because she’s a rather affectionate person and isn’t the type to really hold grudges). Daisuke, being a painfully transparent and straightforward person, plays best with other people who are clear and transparent, so even if Miyako may be a bit difficult to deal with, the fact she’s very honest and straightforward made her someone Daisuke could be comfortable around. Within the series, they never quite got to the more thoughtful and intimate level that Daisuke and Ken or Miyako and Hikari got, but they developed a very comfortable rapport around each other.

Miyako, for her part, cares a lot about Daisuke’s welfare, and is in fact quite willing to be open about it whenever she’s not bantering with him -- a good example is episode 24, when she notices Daisuke is feeling down from V-mon being unable to evolve and himself being left out of Takeru and Hikari going off together, and goes forward, affectionately grabs him, and gives him a job to do in babysitting the Punimon. At first this looks like simply a way to distract him so that Takeru and Hikari can have some space, but we’re later treated to some shots of Miyako looking at him fondly, making it clear that she was very much invested in making sure he was happy with something to do -- and she even muses that she felt he’d be perfect for the job. (And she gets bonus points for correctly catching on that Daisuke is happiest when he has some kind of purpose.)

And there are some times where Daisuke has some, well, interesting reactions when it comes to Miyako -- in regards to expressing preferences with boys, given that he has a sudden taken-aback reaction to Miyako declaring openly that she likes cute boys like Michael in episode 14 (something that really shouldn’t be surprising to everyone...), or suddenly getting invested in making a case for himself when Miyako calls Ken’s laugh cute in episode 38. Of course, the easiest explanation to beeline to is reading this as ship bait or hinting that Daisuke has a crush on Miyako, but regardless of whether you want to read it as shippy or not, I think it’s boring to just end the analysis at merely that and call it a day -- so, either way, Daisuke really does care about Miyako’s opinion of him and her approval, not entirely unlike the way he does with most elders. And given that, in Hurricane Touchdown, he lashes out at Wallace for attempting to flirt with her (to the point of it metaphorically breaking his goggles), he can get surprisingly protective of her, too!

Bring it around a whole eight years later in Kizuna, and the first time you see both of them on screen together, Daisuke of course picks up the banter with her -- cheerfully, of course.

This is later followed up by another amusing interaction in which Miyako, rather impatient with Daisuke being wishy-washy and beating around the bush talking with Yamato about what they found out about Menoa, physically grabs the phone from him (again: much more prone to intervening physically) and gets more directly to the point than he did -- leaving Daisuke to not really argue back, but pout at her irritably.

But of course, they’re still willing to be perfectly in sync at times -- during the drama CD, which takes place right before the movie, Daisuke has no qualms jumping in once she and Hikari go on a dramatic spiel about Spain misadventures.

So in other words -- they’re the same as ever.

[arsenicpanda]

I read your 3 takes posts, and I have some questions? Hope you don’t get mad and you can not reply if you want of course .

“And here, we take Jughead’s “She and I had a terrible break up back when I was in high school, and I never really recovered from it” as just that because, seriously, there’s no indication we should do otherwise from the text itself “

So this is the take you believe more in? That the show had Jughead saying that because he doesn’t have feelings for Betty? Along with this one, because you drop it there in the take too, what do you think about the 5x03 scene? Because that’s one BH and Jabitha fans see way different too.

And, what do you think about Betty regards all of those takes.

For the record, I don’t really get mad unless someone is being an asshole or purposefully disingenuous, and you are none of those and also I’m in Thoughts Mode, so it’s answering time.  Anyway, so, that take is specific to the overall jabitha take, the purest, most jabitha-positive take, much like the bughead version had the purest, most bughead-positive take.  But here’s my real, full take:

If I had to play the “guess what the Riverdale writers were thinking game,” I’d say that the writers decided to be wishy-washy on this line on purpose.  The weirdness of the bunker scene implies, to me, that they wanted to switch to bughead but still leave the door just a little bit open for jabitha, whether it was for later drama, endgame, or iconic bugabitha purposes.  So, they couldn’t just say “I’m not over Betty”, and instead they said “I never really recovered from [the break up],” and they clearly thought that those two things mean roughly the same thing, but the problem is that they absolutely do not.  Not being over a person means you’re still in love with them and that love has overshadowed your feelings in every other relationship you’ve had, thus interfering with it; within fiction, it’s tragically romantic.  Not being over a break up means that, regardless of your feelings for that person, it’s the break up that stuck with you and has interfered with your relationships, and that one is just horribly depressing in any context.  So, from the Doylist perspective, I think we’re supposed to assume it’s an “I’m stuck on Betty thing”, but the problem is that, for me, that does not line up with the Watsonian explanation.

You see, Jughead has been nothing but honest with Tabitha all season, just completely straightforward, and there’s no reason for him to change that behavior now; he’s already explaining the problems in the way of them dating, so what functional difference is there between the two in that regard?  It’s not like one is going to feel better than the other.  I see no indication in the scene for him to be speaking in some code, especially since his hallucination scene is specifically a replay of the conversation about the Archie kiss, aka the conversation (or lack thereof) that set the stage for their break up; this really does imply that his problem isn’t feelings for Betty but feelings about/trauma (for lack of a better word) from the break up.  Personally, I lean toward the Watsonian explanation because I am going to listen to the text before I listen to my best guess at the writers’ intentions.

But, honestly, I don’t think that conversation has anything to do with whether or not Jughead has feelings for Betty; it just relates to whether or not he is conscious of having feelings for Betty.  And in that regard, honestly, pick whatever you like.  I don’t have a specific take here based on the text because I really think it can be read equally along any point in the spectrum between “he has conscious feelings for Betty” through “he has unconscious feelings for Betty” through “he is unaware he has no feelings for Betty” all the way to “he has no feelings for Betty and he knows it.”  I’d say canon intends things to be somewhere between “he has conscious feelings for Betty” and “he has unconscious feelings for Betty”, but I think all can be argued if you really feel like it, and the take I use would vary based on the story I wanted to tell, as would my take on the extent of his feelings for Tabitha (from minor, easy-to-overcome crush to a serious crush and case of Feelings that’s only going to get worse/bigger).

As for 5x03, I assume you mean the apology confession/sex scene?  I read that as a mistake on both ends.  I think Betty is overcome with regret and guilt and also love, and she can’t really articulate her feelings--thus all the generic “I’m sorry”s--so she tries to show Jughead that she chose and still chooses him by using sex.  The problem is, this is clearly not what Jughead really wants and it’s definitely not what he needs; we see this in how he doesn’t kiss her back at first.  What Jughead wants and needs is a specific apology for the cheating-- the exact words “I’m sorry I kissed Archie” (as seen in his hallucination)--and, I would assume, an explanation, but he’s also afraid to ask for it (if I had to guess why, I’d assume he’s afraid of the answer).  Betty does, effectively, pressure him into sex, since we see he’s non-responsive at first, but it’s a very light and unintentional pressure that isn’t traumatic or anything, it just kind of is.  The problem isn’t the sex, it’s that they aren’t speaking the same language here.  And because it doesn’t work and instead leaves things awkward--Jughead’s afraid to broach the topic and needs Betty to do it, and Betty doesn’t want to push him and needs Jughead to do it--they stop communicating and things go sideways.  I fully believe that if they had talked that night instead of having sex, they’d still be together.

As for Betty in regards to these takes, I’m not sure what you mean?  Outside of the 5x03 scene, her current state of mind and her feelings are pretty irrelevant to what’s going on with Jughead.  Betty is kind of just living her life completely outside Jughead’s because, depending on your interpretation, she either has no feelings for him outside of friendship or she is entirely unaware of the feelings she still has for him or even is conscious of having feelings for Jughead but is also consciously pushing them down.  Canon is obviously going for the second or third option (my money’s on the second), but I will say that, in universe, there isn’t really a reason for any of these characters to interpret Betty’s interactions with him as displays of romantic interest; it can be entirely platonic, even if that is not the “““correct””” interpretation.  As for me, I can see arguments for all sides, and my interpretation of choice would vary depending on what I want to do with that interpretation.  Do I want to write a jabitha fic?  She just sees him as a friend.  Do I want to write a bugabitha or bughead fic?  She has feelings for him but may or may not be conscious of said feelings, again depending on the fic.  And the same applies for gif sets, never-to-be-written story ideas, and anything else.

tl;dr The Doylist and Watsonian explanations for the break up line clash, and I lean Watsonian.  That scene is entirely unrelated to Jughead’s actual feelings, which could be literally anything.  The 5x03 confession/sex scene was a series of mistakes that set the stage for bughead’s break up.  Jughead’s feelings could be interpreted any way, the same as Betty’s.  I acknowledge the likely canon reads of Jughead and Betty’s feelings, but don’t subscribe to any interpretation in particular myself, instead picking and choosing depending on my purposes.

[ffamranxii]

I’m only about halfway through Meteor Garden so I’ll save my major comparisons to Boys Over Flowers for the end, but I’d really like to get out my thoughts as of episode 25.

This is Shancai, and she is our protagonist. She is literal sunshine in human form and she deserves SO MUCH BETTER than what she’s getting. Seriously, she needs to tell every single character in this show to fuck off and then get the hell out of Shanghai. She’s been assaulted, insulted, harassed, kidnapped, demeaned, and had absolutely everyone in this show tell her “Oh Si’s just a total dickbag because he loves you” and “you’re just unsure because you’re in love.” No, Si’s a dickbag because he’s the fucking devil and she’s unsure because she’s been forced into an abusive relationship due to her inability to just say no and Si’s inability to take a fucking hint. At this point I’m watching the series to see if she makes it the fuck out alive.

This is the F4, (l-r) Si, Lei, Meizuo, and Ximen. Si has some serious anger issues that apparently stem from his father passing away and no one loving him enough, which I guess gives him the reason to be a passive aggressive asshole and beat the fuck out of random guys. Body count so far: 2. He’s also literally assaulted Shancai four times as of episode 25, once within the first episode (which is when Shancai should’ve noped the fuck out of there but of course did not, because women’s autonomy and safety mean nothing in this show.) I understand that a huge part of the Hana Yori Dango franchise is Tsubasa/Junpyo/Si learning to be an actual human being and deal with his emotions, but Si is disturbing close to his manga counterpart, and manga Tsubasa almost got Tsukushi killed, on purpose, within the first ten chapters. That being said, when he’s with his friends he does have some good moments and does grow, but he seriously needs to leave Shancai alone. 

Lei is who I thought I would ship Shancai with, since I shipped his Korean counterpart with her Korean counterpart hardcore in Boys Over Flowers -- but I was wrong. Lei is not a great person. He’s cold and distant and extremely hung up over his childhood love Jing, who he’s only slightly nicer to. He follows Jing to Paris, and when they break up he uses Shancai not just to get over Jing but to pull some weird passive aggressive stunt over on Si. In fact, Si and Lei seem to have this really bizarre, sadistic sexual tension between them and have more chemistry than Shancai does with either of them. I’d root for that ship.

Meizuo is not at all what I was expecting. So far everyone follows their Korean counterparts really well -- except Meizuo, who is nothing like Woobin. Meizuo might as well be an entirely different character, and that’s not necessarily a bad thing. Also unlike Woobin, he gets his own storyline apparently with Caina, which looks promising. Meizuo is arguably my favorite Meteor Garden F4 member because he dresses like he fishes every piece of clothing from the trash and I scream “what the FUCK are you wearing” at least once an episode. He’s also the sassiest.

Ximen is just a slightly more manipulative Yijung, which I kind of like. He also seems to have a dangerous side to him that the Korean adaption gave to Woobin -- it’s implied that he and Si have beat up people in the past together. His relationship with Xiaoyou is, I think, the only fucking healthy one in the entire show so far; he’s extremely sweet, attentive, and caring towards her, even though he’s a dick and a troll to his friends (though to be fair, Meizuo and Lei also troll Si at every opportunity, which is hilarious) and enables Si’s behavior towards Shancai and passive aggressively shames her when she tries to stand up for herself. I’m wondering if his relationship with Xiaoyou will pan out like that, or if it’ll be super cute and storybook like Yijung’s was with Gaeul.

Shancai has actual friends in this adaption, holy shit. Xiaoyou is the Meteor Garden counterpart to Gaeul so we’ve seen her before. She’s very cute and kitschy, and at times is one of Shancai’s only supporters (though she also hardcore Shancai/Si and tells Shancai multiple times “you’re just in love” when Shancai voices her very valid concerns about the man, which is worrying because Xiaoyou also doesn’t make good choices when it comes to romance.) Li Zheng (middle) and Qinghe (right) don’t exist in Boys Over Flowers and therefore are completely new to me (but not to the franchise, as they have Hana Yori Dango counterparts). Li Zheng has a massive inferiority complex that isn’t entirely undeserved in the beginning, as Shancai (accidentally) leaves her humiliated in the rain and unable to get into a big party. She almost ruins Shancai’s life by getting her drunk, sending her home with a strange guy, and posting pictures of them in bed together all over the internet -- and Shancai, for some bizarre reason, fucking forgives her, because she is a literal saint and we do not deserve her. After that stunt, however, Li Zheng seems to be a pretty decent friend, but like everyone else in this show is completely unreliable when it comes to giving Shancai dating advice. 

Qinghe and I were homies for a while, because he is THE ONLY GODDAMN PERSON who continually sees Si for the asshole he is and calls him out on it, and the F4 treat him pretty badly, using him a lot as a replaceable member for when they kick Si out (for all of five minutes) for being a little too unbearable. However, by episode 25 he’s fully into Nice Guy mode, and hates Si not because he’s a douche but because Si is dating Shancai. Dude went from Shancai’s best friend to one step away from being an incel and I am mourning the loss hard. 

Here we have the one-offs, who I expected to play a much bigger role than they actually are. We have Tian Ye, who also is brand new to me having not existed in the Korean adaption. He’s a chef at a restaurant Shancai works in (before Si chases her away from it) and he’s the only goddamn person in this entire series so far who likes Shancai and hasn’t treated her badly. He actually tells Si to gtfo out of his restaurant and stands up to him for Shancai more than once. I loved him so much and I am so sad to see him go, but the reemergence of his ex(?) fiancee makes me hopeful he’ll show up again too.

Xiaozi is the girl Si’s mother tries to arrange for him to marry, and I was SO EXCITED for her because I LOVED her counterpart in Boys Over Flowers... but Meteor Garden has left me very disappointed indeed. She’s extremely wishy-washy about Si, saying first that she hates him and won’t marry him and doesn’t want anything to do with him and then in the same episode deciding that they’re going to date before their marriage and asking Shancai for advice. I really liked her for the first half of that episode and I feel like they just completely fucked up her character.

Jing is Lei’s childhood friend and ex girlfriend, and the only other person who is unconditionally nice to Shancai -- with the caveat that she’s a horrible cunt to Lei. At first all seems well. They seem to be very loving and in a committed relationship, but the more times she appears (and we have the chance to get to know her a lot better in 25 episodes than we did Seohyun in 40 something), the more it becomes clear that she’s only leading Lei on and doesn’t truly return his affections. She resurfaces in their lives just to drop a bomb on them -- “Hey I’m going to Paris and never coming back and also disowning myself from my family, okay bye!” -- and Lei actually drops everything in his entire life to go after her. The flashback we get of them in Paris is supposed to be cute, I think, with soft lighting and dreamy atmosphere, but it actually just shows Jing neglecting Lei to the point of cruelty until he decides he’s had enough and leaves. While we had almost an entire season before Seohyun announced her marriage to some Parisian dude, Jing does the same within the first fourth of 48 episodes, and it paints her in a horrible light. She destroyed Lei and doesn’t even feel bad about it, and we haven’t heard from her since.

These three don’t have character posters and that’s a damn shame. I must say, Si’s sister Zhuang (left) is JUST as badass as Junhee, and takes absolutely no shit from her brother -- but she isn’t here for very long. I think we saw her for, what?, two? three episodes? Junhee didn’t play a huge part in many episodes in Boys Over Flowers but she was still there a lot in the background, usually making quips at Junpyo or arguing with their mother. I hope Zhuang comes back. 

Caina is a character who’s new to me and I think I’m enjoying her a lot. She was introduced in the same arc as Tian Ye, which makes sense as she is (and maybe no longer?) his fiancee through an arranged marriage. While the F4 were all congratulating Shancai for doing well in the cooking competition, Meizuo just sat there a little starstuck and talked about hooking up with Caina the entire time. WELL SHE COMES BACK in episode 24(or is it 23?) TO MY IMMENSE SHOCK, and apparently is into trash chic because she immediately jumps into a little arc with him. What concerns me though is how her extremely low alcohol tolerance, her blackout drunkenness around men, and her blackout-induced injuries are all treated as comedy. Meizuo and some creep fight over her for two entire episodes, and each time ends with her eating pavement and waking up hungover and extremely beat up from it. This show makes me fear for the safety of women in China, since Caina’s predicament is played for laughs. Also, what happened to Tian Ye?? 

And finally, there’s THIS BITCH. Si and Zhuang’s mother. She even looks like Zhuang (which means in-universe Si looks like his father, which is extra heartbreaking as his father is dead), and she is the biggest cunt I’ve had the delight to watch. I hate this bitch like I hate Dolores Umbridge. I thought Junpyo’s mom was bad but Si’s mom is ten thousand times worse. She’s cold and cruel and looks to humiliate Shancai whenever she can, and even her own son and Mrs Yu too. She’s literally just Umbridge as a mom except she doesn’t physically abuse her children. She’s the only person I can say I’m almost okay with being made more terrible than before, because the mom was always supposed to be horrible.

All in all, Meteor Garden should be subtitled “Everyone In This Show Is A Terrible Human Being, Except Shancai Who Can Do No Wrong.” And normally I enjoy shows about terrible people but this one isn’t a comedy like It’s Always Sunny or The Office. This is supposed to be some great epic love story between Shancai and Si and all I see is a girl who feels like she can’t voice her own opinion and tell a guy to back off, and a guy with rage issues who won’t back the fuck off. 

I mean, I’m finishing the series, but... it’s definitely a challenge. At least the soundtrack is popping.