#so i practiced some perspective in this one!!
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*long sigh*
all right this is one of my most resurrected posts and to be quite honest, i think most people get what I'm saying here, but it could be clarified because the second it gets away from a circle of people who get it, people seem to lose the thread pretty quick. it was about a trend I noticed regarding the types of fans C3 was both attracting and whose voices were being heavily elevated within the fandom. with the campaign ending, it only feels right to say my final piece about it and be done with it.
first, this post is about whose stories and voices are centered in fandom. it is not about the cast (though having a predominantly white, culturally Christian, US American cast does influence it because they are telling stories from that lens.) it is not even really about the characters, themselves, and whether this is. it's about the fans, and specifically, it is about the lack of compassion and desire to understand, I see a particular type of white (often for lack of better word, "WASP"-y: raised middle class, culturally Christian, and/or US American/English/Canadian/etc) queer fan extend to anyone who falls out of an extremely narrow lens of "this is the default queer experience" or heaven forbid, to people who are not queer but are marginalized in other ways.
it is about how this phenomenon happens because they have been trained to see their queerness as their only identity (and therefore, in their arrogance, the only identity that matters) as it is the only thing about them that deviates from that WASP-y "default." through this lens, stories that are not relatable to that audience are largely ignored unless they are exceptional enough to be the "Academy-Approved POC Film of the Year" to be tokenized by white liberal audiences and stories that do touch on queerness but are primarily about other things like race/class/disability/etc are whitewashed into something more palatable for that hegemonic "default" audience to the point where it is practically unrecognizable from the original story. this is not unique to CR. this happens across all audiences and therefore, all fandoms.
clearly, this phenomenon leads to a problem in fandoms. if we are not extending empathy to the characters and stories that discuss perspectives that may be different than our own, than we will not be extending empathy to the real breathing humans who see their experiences (or the experiences of people they have known) in those stories. there was this post or article about why we need better POC representation that I read way back in the day and have never been able to find again that really stuck with me that said something along the lines of "we don't need representation because no black person can relate to George Costanza or Rachel Green. we already do. the problem is that white writers and audiences do not relate to black people and that shows through the kind of black characters white writers create." and I think that sentiment is relevant to what I'm getting at here. a lot of white queer fans on tumblr are often half-listening when a story is told, choosing to only pay attention when things are about them because at the end of the day, they have the privilege to do so. therefore, the fanworks they create reflects that lack of interest. the metas and fanon they write reflect that lack of interest. soon enough, the fandom itself reflects that lack of interest.
and worse yet, because queer people are an oppressed group (and to clarify, I don't want to come across like I'm saying just because we're white queers, we're not "really oppressed" or whatever), this lack of interest and compassion for people who are different than you becomes actively celebrated in fandom spaces. you have relatively privilege white queer people on tumblr loudly proclaiming characters only matter if they're gay, stories only matter if they're queer, and so on and so on. which on some level is fine if you prioritize reading and watching stories that have to do with queerness, but you do need to be aware of a massive bias you may have to what "queer stories" even are and how you are interacting with them and who you are leaving out. a great example of this is why every time there's a black bisexual male love interest in a video game, y'all keep calling him "too straight" and therefore "boring" and then getting mad and defensive when someone calls you on it. like I mean-- hit dogs holler. ¯\_(*ツ)_/¯
anyway, I was going to close with tying this concept back into CR and how there was a rot that permeated C3 and how this attitude straight up alienated a lot of fans. (god knows I got shouted out of this fandom until it got so dully unpleasant that I couldn't bring myself to give a damn anymore, and sincerely, from the bottom of my heart, I hope everyone who participated in the near constant harassment I received for the great crime of maybe being annoying as I made my little jokes and shared my thoughts has a bad fucking life. fuck you. learn how to use the block button.) but @utilitycaster who has been following this campaign as well as other actual play shows a lot more closely than I have already touched on that in a pretty dead-on post that I highly recommend.
so here is what I will end on, the phenomenon I've been describing throughout this post is in no uncertain terms, a form of bigotry, and as far as the people who have to live with that oppression are concerned, a queer bigot is not any less harmful than a straight bigot, in the same way a female bigot is not any less harmful than a male bigot. so if you sincerely want to your spaces to be more inclusive and aren't just saying that to "do a leftism," you have to accept your own part in that, regardless of who you are. you have to stop and pay attention to what kind of perspectives you might be ignoring, and stop immediately shouting at people because you interpreted what they said in bad faith. you have to learn how to just shut up sometimes and be a little reflective. i'm not always great at that, but it's a skill you have to practice even if you fuck up. you can always change your mind with new information and new ideas and new perspectives, but if you instinctively chase off everyone who might be willing to talk about something you've never considered before because you're more concerned about being right than learning, you're going to get a rot in your community that is really hard to get rid of once it festers enough. because if you've been told your whole life that the rot is the default and that it is normal and that it's the way it should be, you're never going to notice it's even there.
tbh the Critical Role fandom, along with most fandoms, has a problem with centering easily digestible metaphors for white queer experiences (and even then only those that check all the boxes of the purity list) at the cost of seeing stories through the lens of race, class, mental and physical disabilities and how those can intersect with queer experiences.
for example, putting an unnecessary amount of effort into proving Jester's attraction to Fjord is compulsory heterosexuality while ignoring that Fjord and Jester were both explicitly biracial characters from different class backgrounds and how that class difference intersected with their self image. a general refusal to really interact with Chetney as a character that is heavily coded as mentally ill and uninterested in being "cured." Veth being deemed the token straight Karen despite being a young rural mother of color struggling with addiction and having an arc that was heavily coded as trans, and Ashton, a nonbinary lower class punk with chronic pain, being considered just a man when it comes to ship wars. etc, etc.
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"we need more complex female characters in fiction" you people couldn't even handle rory gilmore. you've actually managed to get worse about her, somehow
#people have a pathological hatred for her that drives me to absolute distraction#there's practically a cottage industry of post-hoc revisionist takes about half the protagonists in 2000s media these days#and while the occasional one is valid most are total claptrap from writers and commentators desperate to have the hottest take possible#all this to say. never ever look at the comments of any gilmore girls clip on youtube#especially one where rory is expressing a completely normal valid human emotion or perspective#double especially if its in the face of pick a man any man being a complete ass to her#because every single comment will be some variation on the theme of 'god she's such a SPOILT BRAT' 'she's the real problem'#'i hated rory after her downfall' 'im so glad he humbled her / gave her a reality check / called her out 😍😍' im going to kill you all#with hammers#you (wrongfully imo) critique gg for 'not like other girls' nonsense yet from where im sitting y'all r the biggest bunch of pick me-s ever#[redacted] isn't real and he isn't going to fuck you i promise you this#dickride for someone else#rory gilmore#gilmore girls#fandom wank
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Here are all the requests I got the other day! This was super fun! I can totally see myself doing it again some time in the future.
+ The sketches and some exploration / warm-ups underneath
^ I did two exploration sketches for Penguin & Shachi! They're a package deal so of course it was always gonna be both of them. You can also see a random Yonji for warm-up lol. These also gave me the chance to practice a few art stuff I've wanted to work on!
Sanji kicking Luffy might be unironically my favorite gestural drawing I've done so far. Thank you for that one!
I got to explore a more complex pose / interaction between 2 characters with Shachi and Penguin + downward head angles!
Caesar has some funny perspective / foreshortening with the proto-SMILE in his hand (also, I chose to draw young Caesar since I've already drawn his current design plenty of times lol).
And with Baby 5, I wanted to work with curve & line flow! I chose to go for her instead of Usopp since I draw him like, all the time lmao.
It was all fun! Thank you everyone who sent in requests!
#one piece#monkey d luffy#black leg sanji#penguin and shachi#heart pirates#baby 5 one piece#caesar clown#talltales#me art#cw syringe#brief yonji mention lmao
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I was thinking with all the discourse on x about Jimins letter, and the cult and solos trying to scramble to debunk his own words, how they are this or that, just bros, they don’t sleep togetherness, don’t see each other before bed yadda yadda.
If it’s common practice in the military to be in group dorms, to shower together, why scramble to say that Jikook don’t do that, they don’t see each other?
Why the scramble to say they aren’t close?
What is it that people are so afraid of?
Because you’re not telling me if it was Yoongi and Jimin who enlisted, or Jimin and Tae, or Jin and Namjoon, or Hobi and Yoongi, etc etc, that people wouldn’t be celebrating it
So why not Jikook? What is it that has them so unhinged that they are literally resorting to calling them both liars, that Jimins letter was written by PR at Hybe, that cooks sleep elsewhere and have different bed times, when Jimin himself said ‘before bed’.
What is it that makes people shout ‘they are brothers!!!!!!’ Over and over and over again.
Because where is the line?
What would tip them over the more than friends category in SK skinship terms, or even say if they were a man and women?
Would it be the hugs? The constant need to touch, to be together? The cheek to cheek selcas? The spending special days together? The tones they use with each other? The teasing, bickering and flirting? The coy looks and smiles? The way they know what the other is thinking? The way they have their inside jokes? The way they are so domestic in the kitchen, JK cooks and JM being Sous Chef. The comfort and companionship they have sought out with the buddy system. The love they exude?
am I missing anything?
I mean I probably am, that’s the quick notes version of their bond. My point being that all of that alone is striking, means their relationship is specific to them and them alone, it stands out, it’s beautiful. It should be celebrated and cooed over, the very least it should be respected.
Is it then that this is what they fear? That they do in fact see all of that, see Jimin writing that he and JK are having (read: deep) conversations about life before bed, and think oh hell no, gotta make up a lie to stop that being true! As if that is how it works.
I don’t know what the futures holds, what the comeback will be like, I just actually hope everything will work out the way each of them want it to. That they are allowed to mature, that they can hold space for each other to grow, to be themselves more than ever. That boundaries are put in place and respected between the members themselves, and the fans. That this will be a new era, as they said in Festa and since; that they won’t hold back things they have wanted to say but couldn’t. It’s a reoccurring theme, JK has said it in lives, Jimin in his last live, now this letter.
I just want them to be loved, and to allow themselves to be love in return. They deserve it.
Anon, I truly feel the same way.
I think solos, antis and tkkers trying to disprove jikook's bond is for many reason. But the simple main one is that they don't want it to be true.
It all comes from desire, they want a different story, because they have this fantasy, because homophobia, and other reasons. They want something else, something that will never be true because it is just that, a story they told themselves because it makes them feel safer and more in control. It's their ego telling them "it should be another way instead!" "This isn't right" (homophobia again), and you know how powerful the ego can be. When someone wants something so bad, some people might go to extremes to get it, no matter the cost.
They believe their little scenario (that they don't like each other, that they are not close) for different reasons and each person think they are totally right about that. Each person thinks their perspective is the best one.
You know that wars have been fought over different perspectives?
Belief is a very powerful thing. Most people cling into some beliefs because it makes them feel more safe, their ego overcompensating over some internal lack.
At least with the scenario they can control the narrative. It is known and comfortable. Because the alternative is unknown, it's wild, it's unpredictable, it's scary. They might lose control, you see? it all comes from fear. Fear of something being different. And jikook ARE different. Their relationship stands out a lot within the group.
And you know what I don't think they actually see the same things as we do when they watch jikook.
Because they made up their mind already, they made up their own story, their ego doesn't care what's actually real! They watch the content through their already skewed lense, and they are so sure they are right. So every single detail will be used to reinforce their belief. To say, "See, I am right! He said this, so they are not close! They can't be"
Ohhh, to what extent the ego would go to be right. You know I don't think they are even aware they are twisting things and making up lies (well of course some of them do) but I think the majority genuinely believe what they see is true. It's true because they absolutely want it to be true. They don't want jikook to be close, to have this special bond, because it doesn't align with their personal selfish desires. "I want JK with Tae!" "I want jikook dating girls and not boys!" "I want my fave to be this way instead!"
I think jikook truly unsettle them to their core. It triggers something inside that they don't want to look at, because it's uncomfortable, so they reject it entirely. They choose something else to believe in, because that makes them feel better. It's less dangerous.
That's why many tkkers are also homophobic, weirdly. They have this ship idea in their heads, but since their ship never happens on camera, they believe it exist somewhat outside of camera, outside of reality. It's a pocket where they can project any types of ideas within the relationship, they can explore their inner fantaisies, let their imagination run wild, and create what they want instead of what is. It escapism, it's dreaming, and it helps them cope with reality that is different.
Because the reality is that jikook have this incredible bond, here, tangible, real, with a incredible depth, and it makes them scared shit. Because that's not something they can control, because it is different, and actually gay. Like for real. Not in a hypothetical "what ifs" scandalous and a little taboo way. No, it's real. But it's so outside of their scope of what's "socially acceptable" that they simply will never accept it. "Because it's BAD" mind you. It's bad and wrong and shouldn't exist. Because they think righteousness is something else entirely. Because they believe their sense of right from wrong is correct.
Of course it's not.
Trying to reason with them is absolutely pointless. It will always be a battle of ego, or different perspectives clashing. These people will not change, it would be too scary to them.
I'm afraid jikook will absolutely never be loved by them the way they deserve. And the hate and the lies and the toxicity is always going to be here. Because you know how much time it takes to actually grow in awareness? To change beliefs? To evolve towards more love? Guys it could take several lifetimes no joke.
I get your sentiment anon, I do.
I think jikookers in general spend too much time fighting with all of them, because it frustrates us so much that jikook are not loved.
But forget it guys, our frustration will only grow if we focus on them too much. They are where they are at, these people. They can't see anything else. I'm not even sure they are able to. Ego and beliefs are so strong, it's very hard for someone to go against it.
They will never see it our way.
Oh, in an ideal world, everyone would love jikook and celebrate them.
But we are in a world where we're thrown with people on different levels of consciousness, and it's just something we have to deal with. It's not comfortable. It can be horrible. But that's just the way it is.
It all comes from fear in the end. Fear of something being different than you, fear of losing control, fear of the unknown.
These guys, beneath layers of piled up beliefs and lies and stories within their psyche, are just scared, that's all. And they might not be aware that they are.
Fear keeps them from seeing things from their heart unfortunately.
And overcoming fear is one of the hardest thing to do in this world.
So, don't be too frustrated with them. It sucks, yes. Of course I wish it would be different. Of course I would want them to *see the light* at some point, but it's not very realistic or easy. None of this situation is easy. People are very complex.
These people will remain here, battling for their ego, burning twitter with their hate, twisting things, making up lies. There's nothing we can do about it, they are here to stay. The only thing we can control is how we react to them. Because I see so many times jkkers also using animal names and insults, battling them with their own ego and hate, and that's just not it. It is so futile. It will never change anything. And we can be better than this. I'm not saying I have a magical solution, I don't. I think it's up to each individual to discern what's right for them in their heart.
In an ideal world, we would all come together in harmony, and praise and celebrate jikook's bond for what is it, something wonderful, magical, beautiful, and see it with our heart and soul, and bask in love and share it between ourselves, and just revel in the magnificence. All of us. How great that would be. It would be a little bit like heaven, right?
Well we're not in heaven anymore, and if we wanted that we would have stayed there and not come here on this earth. Here things will inevitably be flawed, because humans are not and never will be perfect.
But the best we can do is stay within groups of like-minded people, people sharing the same love for love, and create our own little paradise here to enjoy jikook's bond and celebrate it.
It will not be the world's, but it will be ours. Which is already something, I guess?
I went on a long tengent I'm sorry
I can't wait to see what the members will say after military. It's going to be very interesting. Haters are gonna lose their minds (which is funny at this point XD)
Let's each of us love and support jikook, for the people who can't. Let's share their love so it might touch somebody else's heart.
And do our best to be good humans, right?
No matter what happens.
Love you my fellow jikookers 💜
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The Jewish interpretation (as I understand):
The way Jews think about Jesus is basically the way Christians think about Muhammed: not a lot, and what they do is generally very negative. The default Jewish position on Jesus (there are exceptions, which I'll detail below) is that He was some kind of false prophet; if there are Jews who view Him as a prophet, they'll be of the "all religions lead to God" school of thought.
While Messianic Jewish groups are considered to not be Jewish by pretty much every Jewish organisation, there are some Jews who have a more positive view of Jesus - for example, Shmuley Boteach, a rabbi who wrote a book, Kosher Jesus, arguing that the historical Jesus was a good Torah-observant Jew who never claimed to be the Messiah, let alone Jesus. Then again, many Orthodox rabbis panned the book without even reading it because they found the premise so offensive - if you want to understand their mindset, imagine the response you'd get from Evangelical leaders if you were to write a book arguing Muhammed was a good Christian. In the world of more liberal Judaism, Geza Vermes (the greatest Jewish critical scholar of the New Testament) had a high view of Jesus, but his view was very different from the Christian one - he regarded Jesus as a charismatic healer and preacher of repentance who made no claims to divinity.
There are several references to someone called Yeshu (Aramaic for Jesus) in the Talmud, all of them very unflattering - a particularly infamous one refers to Yeshu being boiled in excrement in Hell as a punishment for mocking the teachings of the sages. However, it's unclear if Yeshu is Jesus of Nazareth - on the one hand, there's some bits that map on to Him very well (being sentenced to stoning and dying by hanging for practicing sorcery and leading Israel astray), while there are other bits that are clearly talking about someone else (Yeshu's uncle is said to have died in the Bar Kochba Revolt, which happened in the 130s AD). It's also controversial because these passages have historically been used as a pretext for persecution of Jews - the passage mentioned above was cited by the French government in the 13th century to make the case that the Talmud was blasphemous, and thus that all copies of it should be burnt. As for my opinion as to who it was, I lean towards Yeshu being Jesus of Nazareth (Jews in the 6th century, when the Talmud was compiled, where unlikely to have a high view of Christianity), but I don't have a strong opinion on this and don't really care.
Continuing on the topic, the Toledot Yeshu was a medieval biography of Jesus of Nazareth from a Jewish perspective - there are several different versions, all of them different in important ways from one another, but they all portray Jesus as an arrogant, blaspheming sorcerer who meets a justly-deserved humiliating death. The text has never been endorsed by any rabbinic authority, but it was fairly popular among medieval Jews, leading to it being cited in antisemitic polemics.
There are some Jews who endorse Jesus mythicism (the belief that there was no historical Jesus whatsoever), but it's a minority view and has never been the teaching of any Jewish movement. Compare it to QAnon for American Evangelicals - their theology influences them to believe in it, but it is not and has never been a theological doctrine for them.
@entanglingbriars, do you think I did an adequate job?
Making Jesus out to be a secular moral teacher and/or anti-Roman activist is almost worse than just straight up denying his existence
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soldier boy can throw me around like a rag doll ‼️
very valid. i too would like to be treated like a blow up sex doll 🤭. for your troubles, i present something very special for you.
Dirty
pairing: soldier boy x latina!reader
synopsis: soldier boy is america’s sweetheart, so its no excuse he wants things done a certain way.
word count: 852
warnings: NO PLOT, smut, sexism, slight racist behavior and vocabulary from soldier boy, degration, no protection, talk of pregnancy, roughness from soldier boy. he’s not the one you wanna take home to your mother.
yazzy's comments: honestly hear me OUT! it is my belief that soldier boy would 100% act this way and i’m entitled to my opinion. if you don’t like, scroll away !!
“¿esto es lo que te gusta? what a fucking freak.” his hot breath fans over your pulse, thrusts hitting you deeply and practically unforgiving with every slap of skin. though the language isn’t his own, he tries and that you can appreciate. the american accent still peaks through with every syllable, which makes it strangely hotter to hear.
your nails dig into his broad shoulders, trying your best to not make so much noise. after all, you were supposed to hate this man. america’s sweetheart was quite the asshole, even borderline sexist. “see? all you’re good for his to take my fucking dick and make me dinner.” no take that back, he was hella sexist.
as you bounce on his cock, your breasts provide a wonderful show for soldier boy. earlier he had taken the time to mark them up so that when you wore those low cut tops, people could see you were accounted for. though now that ben thinks about it, no bitch of his is gonna go out looking like some prostitute on the corner. you’ll be dressed properly, with no part of your chest showing. that’s for his eyes only.
his digits tug and pinch at your swollen buds, smirking as you whimper with every touch. “fucking slut, you really gonna let an american soil that exotic pussy?” ben knew that if this had been just talk, you’d slap him. argue how his perspective was outdated and unacceptable now, yet feeling how hard your walls squeeze him after using such vocabulary was hard to ignore. “hmm, maybe that’s what you need. just pure american made meat.”
you hold onto him for dear life at this point, smothering his face into your bosom. his words should put you in a fit of rage but your damn body betrays you. “solo estás demostrando mi punto.” he can feel your walls tighten again and that only feeds into his already big ego. “so that’s what you want? pathetic.”
the chair creaks under the weight of you both, close to breaking and though ben didn’t care much, he rather not deal with butcher’s bitching about breaking motel furniture. so with one arm, he keeps you steady on his cock while making his way to the bed. sitting down right at the edge so you remain in the same position. cause there were various positions soldier boy could do but cowgirl had to be in his top five. plus who is he to turn down being suffocated by your gorgeous tits?
you have yet to say any coherent words or much of anything aside from the sinful noises. he wonders what’s going on in that pretty little mind of yours. his fingers grab a fistful of hair, forcefully tugging your head back as your eyes meet. “don’t make me speak that dirty language again, this is america.” a harsh slap meets your cheek, making you wince. “we speak english here and if i’m gonna fuck you, i’ll make sure you don’t forget that.”
his piercing gaze makes you squeeze around his shaft again, feeling your orgasm approach closer with each touch from him. “por f-favor,” you manage to choke out, whining when soldier boy stops his thrusts.
“what i fucking say huh?” you groan when he pulls you off his cock, pushing you onto the mattress on all fours. your ass lifted high into the air as he delivers the first slap. “speak english.” his dick is aching to be inside you but he had to hold back for now, you needed to know your place.
your face buried itself into the motel pillows, scratchy fabric brushing against your skin. butcher would be back soon and you knew soldier boy was nowhere near done with you. though you didn’t want him to stop entirely. “no no, who said you could hide that pretty face of yours?” once again, soldier boy grabs a fistful of your hair, looking down at your features. “don’t tell me we need to start with the basics.” you tried shaking your head but that only made his grip on your hair hurt more. “you got a mouth, speak, bitch.”
swallowing the lump in your throat, your eyes meet his, despite your vision blurring a bit. “i’ll speak e-english, promise!” it’s not a real promise, for you couldn’t get rid of a language you loved so much.
soldier boy chuckles, letting go of your hair and shifting down to the globes of your ass. spreading the cheeks apart to see how swollen your pussy was, hole gaping as it was already molded to his shape and size. “hmm, you’ll say anything just to feel me again huh? Qué chica tan sucia.”
he watches as you look back, pushing your ass against him in hopes the teasing might end. you needed him, craved to feel him every second you both were apart. “fine, guess i’ll give you what i want. i was always curious,” without warning, he slides right back in and smirks when you whimper. “if i get you pregnant, is our kid gonna look more like me or you?”
·̩͙།† ͝ ︶ ͝ ⏝ ͝ ︶ ͝ †། ·̩͙
Please note; I do not allow translations or redistributions of my work by anyone else except myself. MDNI, if your account is ageless or empty, I will block you !! Minors are NOT welcome here.
#yazzy's works !!#soldier boy x latina!reader#soldier boy x reader#soldier boy x you#soldier boy fanfiction#soldier boy smut#the boys#soldier boy x y/n#the boys fanfic#smut#pwp#jensen ackles x reader#jensen ackles x you#jensen ackles x y/n#jensen ackles smut#jensen ackles x female!reader#jensen ackles x latina!reader
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For completion's sake, the interview with Macklin that followed the one with Rick Celebrini on the Papa & Silver show.
As before, trimmed to remove ads/extraneous content and transcribed below (but the hosts are slightly less obnoxious this time around). Original can be found here.
(TV broadcast call of Macklin Celebrini's first goal plays)
Greg Silver: Yeah, he's had fifteen more since then and we've been teasing this all week Papa, closing out a Friday with the one and only center, number one overall pick for the San Jose Sharks, Macklin Celebrini. Joining us on the Ooma guest line, Macklin, appreciate your time, Greg Silver, Greg Papa here on KNBR in San Francisco, how's it going.
Macklin Celebrini (MC): It's going well, it's going well, thanks for having me.
Silver: Oh, absolutely. So I went out there to the Shark Tank on Monday and I guess I just want to start right there with what's it like for you going up against Sidney Crosby, the all time leader in face-offs (transcriber's note: this is raw wins, winning % wise he's 99th all time on 1Feb25), and he was also the number one pick way back when. He's had a championship filled career. Did you take a moment to kind of process what was happening or is your competitive style more just like block it all out in the moment?
MC: No, a hundred percent, that was a really cool experience. Obviously got to do it earlier in the year in Pittsburgh. To be able to play against him again and get the game winning goal is a really cool experience.
Papa: And you got the game winning goal right after he got the game tying goal and even took a holding penalty against him (laughter) at one point.
MC: Yeah.
Papa: We just had your dad on and there's just so many things we want to get to. First of all, Sid the Kid obviously is one of the greatest players in the history of the game. You're rooming, living, with Jumbo Joe and his family. We had your dad on and wondering why you just don't live at home with the Celebrinis, with your family, it's a hockey thing that's unlike any other sport. So after we talk to you, you get back off a road trip, you go back home and have dinner with the Thornton family? How does that work?
MC: Yeah, I'm living in their guest house and they're kind enough to offer for me to live there this year and after practices and stuff go home and have dinner there and spend time with him and his family.
Papa: You eat every meal there? It's so different! What kind of advice — I mean this is one of the greatest players in the history of the Sharks franchise, of the the greatest players in the history of the NHL, a real playmaker — how much does he actually talk hockey with you?
MC: Yeah, it's little bits here and there. We toss hockey on once every couple nights. Whenever I'm home — usually I'm on the road or River, his boy, has got hockey and stuff, so it's a busy life. But whenever we're watching and stuff we'll talk about some hockey.
Silver: Yeah Macklin Celebrini kind enough to close out the week with us here on Papa & Silver. I asked your father about this not that long ago but I want to get your perspective. What's your experience been in terms of they dynamic between the vets and some of the young players on this team and how that's worked with the overall team chemistry as the Sharks look to build this up into something great here?
MC: Yeah, we have some amazing veteran guys that got brought in and that were already here. They've been amazing for us young guys, obviously we have quite a few younger players on this team, guys who are learning how to navigate this league. So having those guys there, it's really helpful to ask some questions and relay some stuff off them.
Papa: Marc-Edouard Vlasic on the D-line's played over 1300 NHL games, it's incredible. But you've got a good infusion of young guys; tell me about the relationship with your teammate Will Smith, Macklin, if you will. I know you had to walk in recently with the BC Eagles sweater on after you lost a bet to this guy (transcriber's note: on the youtube/twitch live stream Papa holds up his phone with an image of the walk-in to the camera and keeps it there until Macklin starts his answer). So going back to the Beanpot, I know that's a big deal, how was it playing with a guy you played against collegiately?
MC: I think we put it behind us once we became teammates and it's been great to get to know him and hang out with him, and start our careers together.
Silver: So, Macklin, given what your father does we've heard a lot, and discussed a lot on these airwaves, about Klay Thompson and his rehab from injury, and Brandin Podziemski just came back, and now Steph Curry's managing some injury. Do you have a prep routine as far as game days go or practices and is it borderline superstitious with how strict the training regimen can be sometimes?
MC: I think there's definitely some stuff that I want to do and stuff that I need to do to stay healthy and feel good on the ice, but I don't think it's superstitious or something that I really take too much stock in.
Papa: So the situation your in, I can't recall anyone ever being in this. With your father having such a prominent role with the Warriors during their dynasty and then you being the number one pick to a team in a different sport. Just how much, when you were growing up — the reaction when you got drafted number one, Draymond and Steph, and they were all just so excited for you, but how much when you were growing up, Macklin, did you interact with Steph and Klay and Draymond and even Kevin Durant and those guys?
MC: It's been quite a bit, just being around. I rehabbed at Chase Center a couple summers ago when I hurt my shoulder and stuff, so I've been around them a little bit. But more so when I was a little bit little and I didn't really remember it, but it's definitely a cool experience kind of hanging around those guys.
Silver: Yeah, we got Macklin Celebrini here on the line for the San Jose Sharks, and Shark Tank aside, do you have a best city to go visit in a season or opposing environments to play in on your list so far?
MC: (Laughs) Vancouver's cool, kind of going home, having a bunch of family there, that was really cool, but other than that they're all different experiences, they're all really unique in their own ways. It's fun going into new buildings and different environments.
Papa: And you were up in Seattle last night, got a goal in the third period (transcriber's note: Primary assist for Toffoli, not goal.), and your dad was on the trip, it was a dad's trip. What was it like having your father on the road trip with you, did he hang with the boys?
MC: Yeah, he hung out with some of the dads. It was great. We had a dinner up there and they came to the game the day before so. That was a great trip, that was my first father's trip and it was great to have them on the trip with us and have them experience what we go through with travel and that sort of stuff.
Silver: What would you say the best moment to your short NHL career has been to this point? I just mentioned going up against Sidney Crosby, he scores a tying goal you score a winning goal, we came in with the highlight of your first ever goal, what are the most vivid memories that you're carrying with you to this point or have you maybe not had so much time to reflect and you're just going going going?
MC: I think I'm just trying to focus on getting ready for the next game. I haven't really reflected too much yet. We have a little break here so I might but it's a pretty busy time with games every other night and just trying to get ready for them, recover, so I can't really say if I have a favorite moment yet.
Papa: Maybe yet to come. We just had your dad on, as we mentioned, and he said he calls you before every game you play. Has he always done that, going back when you were playing junior hockey and collegiate hockey? And what kind of thoughts does he give you before an NHL game, Macklin?
MC: Yeah, I think that's something I've done ever since I was a kid, it's kind of the same message. It's just the routine I have before my games and it's definitely really helpful to talk to him.
Silver: Alright my last one for you Macklin is do you have an all-time starting line?
MC: Like all-time NHL?
Silver: Correct.
Papa: You better put Jumbo at center is all I'm saying.
(Laughter)
MC: I"ll go Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux um... probably... (Transcribers note: it gets a little messy here, I think he left a little too much dead air so they jumped on it and stopped taking turns. If you're just reading this it's at about 8:40 on the recording)
Silver: (interjecting after the um above) Macklin Celebrini
MC: (said beneath the previous) Yeah, Sid.
Papa: The great 8? How 'bout Ovechkin, you played Ovechkin yet?
MC: No he was injure when we played them, so, that was unfortunate but I do look forward to playing against him. I think I'll put Sid in there, that's my forwards, then probably Bobby Orr, Steve Yzerman on the back end. Or, sorry, Nicklas Lidstrom.
Papa: Well I'm impressed. Bobby Orr's my guy, I'm impressed
MC: I'll go Nicklas Lidstrom, and then I'll go in net Patrick Roy.
Papa: Wow, you got five on the ice there? I counted like six or seven there. But I'm with you on all that, Bobby Orr was so good, end-to-end rush man. So your father said, and we said what should we tell Macklin, he said call him after we're done, but more importantly call your mommy, Macklin, right after.
MC: Yeah, yeah.
Papa: Make sure you call her, would you?
MC: Yeah, I will, don't worry.
Papa: (Laughs)
Silver: Hey Macklin, thanks so much for coming by with the Gregs for a short hit and best of luck as you continue on with the Sharks season. I know a lot of people here in the Bay Area are excited to come check it out.
MC: No, thanks for having me on the show, I appreciate it.
Silver: Absolutely (transcriber's note: He continues this senctence to say, along with Papa, that Macklin's a special talent but I'm pretty sure Macklin's not still on the line at that point so I cut it.)
#i kind of love the phrase 'a little bit little' to describe oneself#I do think that people are at their most genuine and their most meaningless when they sign off on phone conversations#just saying the words you always say. not thinking about them. they always sound a little realer.#anyway this is a somewhat less interesting interview than the other one but it felt bad to do only one of the set.#macklin celebrini#san jose sharks#sharks lb
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I mean, I am very much sympathetic to this perspective; it basically seems obviously true to me, but at the same time, if you can get to the point where the output is consistently exactly what you would expect if real understanding was taking place, then 'is real understanding taking place?" is more of a philosophical question than a practical one, so whatever.
the relevant question when it comes to implementation is what the device can actually do, in terms of its output. If there's some practical sense in which what they're doing differs from what is possible in the presence of real understanding (whatever that is), then properly examining and making comparisons about their output should be able to demonstrate this.
Describe the current level of conceptual understanding LLMs currently have. I could see where they could have a relational understanding due to the probability of one concept appearing next to another (Where I see apples, I expect red) but could they make surprising inferences (if I have enough apples, I could stack them together to make a ramp) that would amount to something akin to creativity?
it does a pretty good job! and most of those answers seem “original” or “creative” in the sense that I don’t think it’s parroting from an existing story about a hole full of apples.
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I think he deserves to wear a pretty dress
I think so too :^)
#spamton#spamton g spamton#deltarune#trying so hsrd lately to just get my ideas out on the page and not worry too much about it looking perfect#so i practiced some perspective in this one!!#been itching to draw him in his dress for ages now im glad i finally did#thank you for the request!!!#laika answers#my art#utdr
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I thought it would be fun to draw Espio using a couple different weapons and it was. :3
#espio the chameleon#sth#sonic fanart#this was gesture practice but i couldn't help but clean them up and give it some lazy color xD#i actually did the top one with the sniper rifle last#when i was drawing the rest i thought about how as a kid i use to draw sonic characters really edgy#i would draw them with swords and guns and angel / devil wings and scene outfits and i wish SO HARD i still had that art HAHAHAHA#...the perspective is off on that drawing and i only just noticed *hisses* oh well XD#oh i had another sketch with him using a ball and chain but i couldn't get the sense of movement right so i scrapped it#also another pose with a sword but i thought that was boring and then drew the bow#i actually don't remember what the bottom of his shoes look like i didn't use any reference for that drawing beside the gun#*proud of growing espio drawing skills*
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now that I haven’t lived with my parents for almost two years I’m starting to come to terms with myself as a full human being. and like idk I can’t really complain about my parents too much in terms of their overall parenting of me, I feel like I’m lucky in a lot of respects just based on the horrific shit some of my friends/family have gone through, but I feel like one consequence of how much my parents fucking hated each other for my entire life is that I feel like I have no reference point for showing affection or being emotionally considerate/vulnerable, those things tend to make me deeply uncomfortable and disempower me to do nice things for the people I love. I feel like I have to really concentrate and spend time on emotional reciprocity and spontaneous gifts/gestures of love. genuinely just kind of sucks how much my parents despise one another and how their constant fighting and days-long silent treatments over the course of 25 years has made me feel inadequate to the task of showing the people I care about how much I love them
#also protestantism will do this to you which is definitely some of it#my therapy insurance renewed for this year maybe I should do a couple sessions about this lol#I feel like I’m making progress on it but it genuinely feels really difficult. It’s like I don’t know what to do with myself#also the middle class thing of just buying shit to express affection#it’s so hollow and meaningless & it’s given me a really cynical and utilitarian perspective on giving gifts#which sucks! I don’t like having that view of gifts. possibly one of the oldest human social practices in all of history#aside from maybe art
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Do I have any canonical proof that they were friends? No.
Am I going to believe that they were friends? Yes.
He’s showing her plants and she’s telling him the Latin name for them
Click for better quality
Check my pinned post to see links on how you can help the people of Palestine
#we happy few#whf#margaret worthing#percy hastings#percival hastings#whf margaret#whf percy#mcart#some of these arts I’ve had done a bit ago but this was the more recent one I got done in the past couple of days#so that’s why you are seeing a bunch from me#I still have more ideas obviously but it probably won’t be done until like later#may post some practice sketches I do of the characters#anyway uhh take this as an apology for the first art I made of Margaret Y’know the very sad one#I actually had fun with this one mainly cause I was working with perspective and#backgrounds which I haven’t done in a while#also worked on actually doing full body which I haven’t done in a fat while either#so all in all fun drawing
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I used to like saying "gender is a social construct," but I stopped saying that because people didn't tend to react well - they thought that I was saying gender wasn't real, or didn't matter, or could be safely ignored without consequences. Which has always baffled me a bit as an interpretation, honestly, because many things are social constructs - like money, school, and the police - and they certainly have profound effects on your life whether or not you believe in them. And they sure don't go away if you ignore them.
Anyway. What I've taken to saying instead is, "gender is a cultural practice." This gives more of a sense of respect for the significance gender holds to many people. And it also opens the door to another couple layers of analysis.
Gender is cultural. It is not globally or historically homogeneous. It shifts over time, develops differently in different communities, and can be influenced by cross-cultural contact. Like many, many aspects of culture, the current status of gender is dramatically influenced by colonialism. Colonial gender norms are shaped by the hierarchical structure of imperialist society, and enforced onto colonized cultures as part of the project of imperial cultural hedgemony.
Gender is practiced. What constitutes a gender includes affects and behaviors, jobs or areas of work, skillsets, clothing, collective and individual practices of gender affiliation and affirmation. Any or all of these things, in any combination, depending on the gender, the culture, and the practitioner.
Gender encompasses shared cultural archetypes. These can include specific figures - gods and goddesses, mythic or fictional characters, etc - or they can be more abstract or general. The Wise Woman, Robin Hood, the Dyke, the Working Man, the Plucky Heroine, the Effete Gay Man, etc etc. The range of archetypes does not circumscribe a given gender, that is, they're not all there is to gender. But they provide frameworks and reference points by which people relate to gender. They may be guides for ways to inhabit or practice a gender. They may be stereotypes through which the gendered behavior of others is viewed.
Gender as a framework can be changed. Because it is created collectively, by shared acknowledgement and enforcement by members of society. Various movements have made significant shifts in how gender is structured at various times and places. The impact of these shifts has been widely variable - for example, depending on what city I'm in, even within my (fairly culturally homogeneous) home country, the way I am gendered and reacted to changes dramatically. Looping back to point one, we often speak of gender in very broad terms that obscure significant variability which exists on many scales.
Gender is structured recursively. This can be seen in the archetypes mentioned above, which range from extremely general (say, the Mother) to highly specific (the PTA Soccer Mom). Even people who claim to acknowledge only two genders will have many concepts of gendered-ways-of-being within each of them, which they may view and react to VERY differently.
Gender is experienced as an external cultural force. It cannot be opted out of, any more than living in a society can be opted out of. Regardless of the internal experience of gender, the external experience is also present. Operating within the shared cultural understanding of gender, one can aim to express a certain practice of gender - to make legible to other people how it is you interface with gender. This is always somewhat of a two-way process of communication. Other people may or may not perceive what you're going for - and they may or may not respect it. They may try to bring your expressed gender into alignment with a gender they know, or they might parcel you off into your own little box.
Gender is normative. Within the structure of the "cultural mainstream," there are allowable ways to practice gender. Any gendered behavior is considered relative to these standards. What behavior is allowed, rewarded, punished, or shunned is determined relative to what is gender normative for your perceived gender. Failure to have a clearly perceivable gender is also, generally, punished. So is having a perceivable gender which is in itself not normative.
Gender is taught by a combination of narratives, punishments, and encouragements. This teaching process is directed most strongly towards children but continues throughout adulthood. Practice of normatively-gendered behaviors and alignment with 'appropriate' archetypes is affirmed, encouraged, and rewarded. Likewise 'other'- gendered behavior and affinity to archetypes is scolded, punished, or shunned. This teaching process is inherently coercive, as social acceptance/rejection is a powerful force. However it can't be likened to programming, everyone experiences and reacts to it differently. Also, this process teaches the cultural roles and practices of both (normative) genders, even as it attempts to force conformity to only one.
Gender regulates access to certain levers of social power. This one is complicated by the fact that access to levers of social power is also affected by *many* other things, most notably race, class, and citizenship. I am not going to attempt to describe this in any general terms, I'm not equipped for that. I'll give a few examples to explain what I'm talking about though. (1) In a social situation, a man is able to imply authority, which is implicitly backed by his ability to intimidate by yelling, looming, or threatening physical violence. How much authority he is perceived to have in response to this display is a function of his race and class. It is also modified by how strongly he appears to conform to a masculine ideal. Whether or not he will receive social backlash for this behavior (as a separate consideration to how effective it will be) is again a function of race/class/other forms of social standing. (2) In a social situation, a woman is able to invoke moral judgment, and attempt to modify the behavior of others by shame. The strength of her perceived moral authority depends not just on her conformity to ideal womanhood, but especially on if she can invoke certain archetypes - such as an Innocent, a Mother, or better yet a Grandmother. Whether her moral authority is considered a relevant consideration to influence the behavior of others (vs whether she will be belittled or ignored) strongly depends on her relative social standing to those she is addressing, on basis of gender/race/class/other.
[Again, these examples are *not* meant to be exhaustive, nor to pass judgment on employing any social power in any situation. Only to illustrate what "gendered access to social power" might mean. And to illustrate that types of power are not uniform and may play out according to complex factors.]
Gender is not based in physical traits, but physical traits are ascribed gendered value. Earlier, I described gender as practiced, citing almost entirely things a person can do or change. And I firmly believe this is the core of gender as it exists culturally - and not just aspirationally. After the moment when a gender is "assigned" based on infant physical characteristics, they are raised into that gender regardless of the physical traits they go on to develop (in most circumstances, and unless/until they denounce that gender.) The range of physical traits like height, facial shape, body hair, ability to put on muscle mass - is distributed so that there is complete overlap between the range of possible traits for people assigned male and people assigned female. Much is made of slight trends in things that are "more common" for one binary sex or the other, but it's statistically quite minor once you get over selection bias. However, these traits are ascribed gendered connotations, often extremely strongly so. As such, the experience of presented and perceived gender is strongly effected by physical traits. The practice of gender therefore naturally expands to include modification of physical traits. Meanwhile, the social movements to change how gender is constructed can include pushing to decrease or change the gendered association of physical traits - although this does not seem to consistently be a priority.
Gender roles are related to the hypothetical ability to bear children, but more obliquely than is often claimed. It is popular to say that the types of work considered feminine derive from things it is possible to do while pregnant or tending small children. However, research on the broader span of human history does not hold this up. It may be true of the cultures that gave immediate rise to the colonial gender roles we are familiar with - secondary to the fact that childcare was designated as women's work. (Which it does not have to be, even a nursing infant doesn't need to be with the person who feeds it 24 hours a day.) More directly, gender roles have been influenced by structures of social control aiming for reproductive control. In the direct precursors of colonial society, attempts to track paternal lineage led to extreme degrees of social control over women, which we still see reflected in normative gender today. Many struggles for women's liberation have attempted to push back these forms of social control. It is my firm opinion that any attempt to re-emphasize childbearing as a touchstone of womanhood is frankly sick. We are at a time where solidarity in struggle for gender liberation, and for reproductive rights, is crucial. We need to cast off shackles of control in both fights. Trying to tie childbearing back to womanhood hobbles both fights and demeans us all.
Gender is baked deeply enough into our culture that it is unlikely to ever go away. Many people feel strongly about the practice of gender, in one way or another, and would not want it to. However we have the power to change how gender is structured and enforced. We can push open the doors of what is allowable, and reduce the pain of social punishment and isolation. We can dismantle another of the tools of colonial hedgemony and social control. We can change the culture!
#Gender theory#I have gotten so sick of seeing posts about gender dynamics that have no robust framework of what gender IS#so here's a fucking. manifesto. apparently.#I've spent so long chewing on these thoughts that some of this feels like. it must be obvious and not worth saying.#but apparently these are not perspectives that are really out in the conversation?#Most of this derives from a lot of conversations I've had in person. With people of varying gender experiences.#A particular shoutout to the young woman I met doing collaborative fish research with an indigenous nation#(which feels rude to name without asking so I won't)#who was really excited to talk gender with me because she'd read about nonbinary identity but I was the first nb person she'd met#And her perspective on the cultural construction of gender helped put so many things together for me.#I remember she described her tribe's construction of gender as having been put through a cookie cutter of colonial sexism#And how she knew it had been a whole nuanced construction but what remained was really. Sexist. In ways that frustrated her.#And yet she understood why people held on to it because how could you stand to loose what was left?#And how she wanted to see her tribe be able to move forward and overcome sexism while maintaining their traditional practices in new ways#As a living culture is able to.#Also many other trans people of many different experiences over the years.#And a handful of people who were involved in the various feminist movements of the past century when they had teeth#Which we need to have again.#I hate how toothless gender discourse has become.#We're all just gnawing at our infighting while the overall society goes wildly to shit#I was really trying to lay out descriptive theory here without getting into My Opinions but they got in there the last few bullet points#I might make some follow up posts with some of my slightly more sideways takes#But I did want to keep this one to. Things I feel really solidly on.
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Any judgement on [Richard III's] reign has to be seen as provisional. The critic of the reign only has to consider how the Tudors would now be regarded if Henry VII lost at Stoke, to realize the dangers of too many assumptions about the intractability of Richard’s problems. But it would be equally unrealistic to ignore Richard’s unpopularity altogether. The fact that he generated opposition among men with little material reason for dissent, and that the disaffection then continued to spread among his own associates, says something about what contemporaries regarded as the acceptable parameters of political behaviour. There is no doubt that Richard’s deposition of his nephews was profoundly shocking. To anyone who did not accept the pre-contract story, which was probably the majority of observers, the usurpation was an act of disloyalty. Gloucester, both as uncle and protector, was bound to uphold his nephew’s interests and his failure to do so was dishonourable. Of all medieval depositions, it was the only one which, with whatever justification, could most easily be seen as an act of naked self-aggrandizement.
It was also the first pre-emptive deposition in English history. This raised enormous problems. Deposition was always a last resort, even when it could be justified by the manifest failings of a corrupt or ineffective regime. How could one sanction its use as a first resort, to remove a king who had not only not done [nothing] wrong but had not yet done anything at all?
-Rosemary Horrox, Richard III: A Study of Service
#richard iii#my post#english history#Imo this is what really stands out to me the most about Richard's usurpation#By all accounts and precedents he really shouldn't have had a problem establishing himself as King#He was the de-facto King from the beginning (the king he usurped was done away with and in any case hadn't even ruled);#He was already well-known and respected in the Yorkist establishment (ie: he wasn't an 'outsider' or 'rival' or from another family branch)#and there was no question of 'ins VS outs' in the beginning of his reign because he initially offered to preserve the offices and positions#for almost all his brother's servants and councilors - merely with himself as their King instead#Richard himself doesn't seem to have actually expected any opposition to his rule and he was probably right in this expectation#Generally speaking the nobility and gentry were prepared to accept the de-facto king out of pragmatism and stability if nothing else#You see it pretty clearly in Henry VII's reign and Edward IV's reign (especially his second reign once the king he usurped was finally#done away with and he finally became the de-facto king in his own right)#I'm sure there were people who disliked both Edward and Henry for usurpations but that hardly matters -#their acceptance was pragmatic not personal#That's what makes the level of opposition to Richard so striking and startling#It came from the very people who should have by all accounts accepted his rule however resigned or hateful that acceptance was#But they instead turned decisively against him and were so opposed to his rule that they were prepared to support an exiled and obscure*#Lancastrian claimant who could offer them no manifest advantage rather than give up opposition when they believed the Princes were dead#It's like Horrox says -#The real question isn't why Richard lost at Bosworth; its why Richard had to face an army at all - an army that was *Yorkist* in motivation#He divided his own dynasty and that is THE defining aspect of his usurpation and his reign. Discussions on him are worthless without it#It really puts a question on what would have happened had he won Bosworth. I think he had a decent chance of success but at the same time#Pretenders would've turned up and they would have been far more dangerous with far more internal support than they had been for Henry#Again - this is what makes his usurpation so fascinating to me. I genuinely do find him interesting as a historical figure in some ways#But his fans instead fixate on a fictional version of him they've constructed in their heads instead#(*obscure from a practical perspective not a dynastic one)#queue
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I will likely never get to do anything with her
#the band ghost#nameless ghoul oc#i mostly wanted practice making a character sheet ish thingy#and by god i got that#had to work hard for her colors which is not usually a problem for me#and the silhouette flip like if your character doesnt have a tail then bam its done and no one will notice the small problems#but it doesnt work with a tail if you want perspective i had to redraw/move her tail around to make it look right so. learned that very much#i like the layout concept though thats nice#i have a whole backstory for her. she was part of a group summon and it all went fine except that one person was missing and they ended up#with a statue. she was too terrified to talk to anyone so she got left there and after it sounded empty she reverted and found some place to#hide in the gardens. so she lives there now. and ruins a lot of socks. and helps with the plants not that anyone knows that. and panics and#turns to stone if anyone walks by. so everyone does realize theres a moving shifting statue in the abbey but no one is sure what to do about#that. doesnt speak much if at all. doesnt steal a new shirt bc people notice if those go missing unlike socks. has anxiety bitch face also#yeah. and like. i dont know what a fandom is and i certainly dont know what a music is and thats why ill likely not do anything with her#which kinda sucks. but i still made her a character sheet cause she wont leave me alone. and for the practice#cause if i think about doing a sheet for story ocs i get all perfectionist and it doesnt happen#the luck thing is that she kinda thinks being summoned was a curse#im gonna shut up now
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#tko_art#i just wanted to draw some soft bea leaning over ignore the fact that she's taller#if i don't draw some doodle and have low expectations i'll never post anything TOT#she's playing on the switch or something#the ipad#uhhh i was gonna say something else and then i forgot#oh yeah#i'm actually so bad at drawing with more than one thing in an image especially two people#so objects in perspective???#it all comes back to perspective#derogatory#hate perspective#gotta practice drawing two objects in relation to each other#which is so fucking stupid#but whateve#grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
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