#she is clytemnestra

[fadingstudentbananacookie]

[butchkaramazov]

hey. what if she isn't doomed by the narrative . what if she is doomed by herself

[o1iveangel]

Queen Clytemnestra of Mycenae as the “Death” tarot card

upright meaning: destruction, finality, transformation, sudden change

reversed meaning: resistance, repeating negative patterns, attachment to the past

line art under the cut

[backpackingspace]

Okay so with the line "the olive tree where we first met" we have two equal hilarious options.

When penelope was sassily like oh I'll marry you if you make a living bed out of this tree right here! Cue penelope stumbling over odysseus very very carefully digging up the tree "because how else is he going to get it to itacha we can't have a wedding bed out in the open in sparta duh"

Or

2. Penelope, knowing that Helen's suitors would soon be arriving to take over her home for a while. Snuck out and went on her own wacky shenanigan filled journey where she scoped out all the major players. Odysseus caught her spying in an olive tree. And when she got back she told Helen she had dibs on the cutie from itacha.

[smokey07]

Clytemnestra anyone?

Okay some headcanons for her:

She’s the most high maintenance woman, even more than Helen, so much that only Agamemnon could afford whatever she wants. Not as beautiful but twice as expensive and of course her vibe is even more assertive (when she and Agamemnon have not fallen out).

For me she would somewhat act like Hera when ruling beside Agamemnon, taking none of his sheit basically.

She also wears veil like Helen, but when Helen wears it like a bride for a wedding, she wears it almost like a man. After the death of Iphigenia, she wears it like a grieving mother in a funeral.

[likethexan]

“Electra isn’t a girl’s girl she should’ve supported her mother killing her father” first he was still her father and killing him effectively ruined what was their family no matter how justified his death was second that wasn’t what Iphigenia explicitly wanted third if Electra isn’t a girl’s girl Clytemnestra isn’t a girl’s girl first either since she failed the two girls she had left

[deadbaguette]

Doomed mothers in greek mythology they could never make me hate you (Demeter, Thetis, Clytemnestra, Penelope, Andromache, etc)

[finelythreadedsky]

keep thinking now about the idea of the ancient greek stage building as a doorway into death, which is separated from the stage (the space of the living) by the screen of the skene. cassandra calls it as much ("the gates of hades") when she enters the house of atreus. by convention characters cannot die on stage but must exit, usually into the skene, to be killed. cassandra's just extra explicit about it because of her foresight, but every entry into the stage building is a step into death. and then some people come back out of it!!!

[gingermintpepper]

I would love to hear you talk about Kassandra???

So, what can I say about Kassandra.

Well, firstly, I've been thinking about how I want to answer this question since I got it however many months ago and I figured I wanted to speak about my own interpretation of things rather than formal stuff - half because I don't want to cite anything since going through Iliad based papers brings me little joy and half because I figure I could treat it a bit more casually this way. So here's like, a very brief selection of thoughts I have about Kassandra, Saintess of Troy.

I view her tale as a microcosm of the wider tale of the Fall of Troy from Apollo's perspective. A human is given a choice and, of their own free-will, they make the most destructive decision ignorant of the way they're sealing their own fate and no matter how much their patron will want to save and help them, they will be unable to so much as lift a meaningful finger because the choice made is one that is sealed in Fate and powers far beyond any one god. The themes of doomed love are also shared; Kassandra loved Apollo just as Apollo loved her but she couldn't be what he wanted of her. She couldn't accept what it was he was offering, no matter how much power, honour and love he tried to tempt her with and in a lot of ways, I think of her devastating visions of doom and death(tm) as a physical parallel to the feelings Helen must be tormented with knowing that she will be cited as the reason of such mass death, destruction and violence. Likewise, I see Apollo's inability to save Kassandra up until the end as representative of his wider inability to save Troy. All his love and blessing were not enough, even though all she had to do was take his hand, it simply wasn't meant to be and so I imagine that must be a fresh hurt for him with each beloved mortal he loses during the campaign.

Kassandra is genuinely so interesting? Both as a character and as a narrative idea; she sits almost in the center of so many fascinating parallels and foils that it gets me so excited whenever she comes up in conversation! I've mentioned it briefly before but she forms a very neat triad with Iphigenia and Troilus which runs parallel to the three dominant male powers in Iliad - Agamemnon, Achilles and Apollo. They're what I somewhat refer to as the sacrifice trio, innocents who must ultimately be abandoned and stripped away for the sake of the desire of their sacrificer, in turn revealing something intrinsic about the nature of the man. For Iphigenia, she reveals that Agamemnon truly values his ambition over all, that his image and status as a leader is more meaningful to him than the love of his family (which, of course, dooms him in the end). Likewise, for Achilles, Troilus' sacrifice reveals that no matter the glamour or glory that crowns Achilles' head, his rage is ultimately his most powerful feeling and it burns bright and hot no matter the circumstance, opponent or arena. For Apollo, Kassandra's sacrifice (which is much more symbolic as he is a god and therefore need not actually physically kill her) reveals his position as the 'loser', one who will be scorned and reviled and lose all the things he loves no matter how closely he cherishes or adorns them. He can't protect the mortals he's blessed, he can't protect his children - he can't even save one woman. She also has that aforementioned triad with Helen and Andromache - the sequestered women; doomed to wait and pray but each, in their own ways working to save and support their own in the conflict. They're all haunted by the promise of what awaits them - Andromache's hopes and future lies with Hector and with her son yet she is the embodiment of a war-wife, solid and stoic in her support when Hector returns but suffering deeply knowing each fight could be his last. Helen, of course, carries with her both the suffering of the greek women and the hatred of their men - if Andromache fears death taking the breath from her beloved fighters then Helen bears the weight of death upon her shoulders, all grief and scorn is bore like a crown upon her head and she must bear it. It is her duty to bear it. Kassandra then becomes the suffering of the young women - they who are surrounding on all sides by throngs of death and do not know why it has come, they whose screams intermix with that of the dead upon them. There is no avatar for Kassandra to experience the war through, no reason for her to be stoic or strong or upright. She tears her hair, hysterical at the suffering that is poured into her mind day in and day out, wild and unrestrained where her elders must hold their grief and tame it. In this way, she gives voice to the voiceless, she screams for those who cannot and is reviled for it - a young woman surrounded by death yet ordered not to speak a word of its stench or horror. There's many more things I can talk about too such as the whole Kassandra as Apollo's living Palladium thing or the Kassandra-Electra-Clytemnestra trio or even Chryseis as a reflection of Kassandra and how the taking of a priest's daughter could be seen as tantamount to trying to steal away Kassandra (and how this eventually wraps back around to the actual incident of Kassandra being stolen away and ending up right back under Agamemnon's care just as Chryseis before her) but like, we would be here all day.

Y'all maybe this is a hot take but scorned woman Kassandra is like, the most boring interpretation of her ever. She has so much life and passion in her, so much joy, so much despair, so much love - making her jaded and cynical towards both her fate and her god is such a slap in the face to me of what her character could and generally does seem to stand for. Kassandra never stopped loving Apollo - likewise, Apollo (at least to me) never abandoned her. All in Troy suffer heavy, cursed fates - Kassandra is one of the few who at least had some awareness of how hers would turn out. I like that she's a fighter. I like that she screams and cries and spits and is expressive and ugly in her torment and grief when so many of the women around her cannot afford to be. I like that she said no and despite how much she suffered for it, she never begged for her yolk to be taken from her because she knew that the choice she made was the right one for her. She's raw, she's vivid, she's human and more than anything, that's what I love so much about her.

[differentnerddiplomatopera]

ok work with me here, see my vision

*At Clytemnestra’s and Agamemnon’s house*

*Achilles and Patroclus open the door*

Patroclus: Hey, sorry we are late. We brought th-wait, where is everyone?

Achilles, chuckling: Don’t tell me we are actually early. Oh I am gonna-

Clytemnestra: KILL YOURSELF, YOU ASS!

Agamemnon: RIGHT BACK AT YOU SWEETIE!

(Incoherent Yelling)

Patroclus: What in the actual-

(Whispering) Menelaus: If you don’t get under here right now…

Achilles: Where are you, who was-

(Odysseus and Diomedes drag Achilles and Patroclus under the kitchen counter)

(Helen, Menelaus, Odysseus, Penelope, Diomedes, Hector, and Andromache are all hiding under the table)

Achilles: So why are we hiding under the table?

Diomedes: Do you not hear didgeridee and didgeridoo screaming and yelling like their chi-

Hector: Maybe we shouldn’t mention the “C” word right now.

Penelope: I swear if I never hear them argue again-

Helen: I need alcohol

Patroclus: Could someone-

Menelaus: Helen, no-

Patroclus: please tell us-

Helen: Alcohol, neow

Patroclus: Ok! Can someone explain what the fuck knuckles is going on with these two?

Odysseus: Of course darling. We found ourselves-

Diomedes: Ok, nope quick version. We came over for a house warning party, and in the middle of that-,

Odysseus: Cutting me off when I am trying speak. You know you can be a real bastard, right pet?

Diomedes: Bastard loves bastard, darling. Anyway, in the middle of that, Clytemnestra showed us a custom puzzle she made of their daughter. Very cute, very nice. Weirdly detailed. However Agamemnon has to be Agamemnon, and ruin good things in life. A tiktok account called ArtemisDares had a challenge to break something of your partners, something they loved to see their reaction. So Agamemnon made the asinine decision to break the puzzle she spent— how long did she say?

Penelope: She said “2 hours to find the perfect picture, 5 hours to put in her order because the commission site kept collapsing, and three days to put it together.” It was 2,000 pieces, and she was going to put it in a frame. I can’t even imagine..

Odysseus: Sweetheart, I-

Penelope: Yes I know you would never do that, you are leagues above him. We know this.

Diomedes: Do we?

Penelope: Not now darling. What can we do to-

*I SHOULD HAVE KILLED YOU WHEN I MET YOU, YOU WHORE*

*IF I WAS EASY TO KILL, YOU WOULD HAVE DONE IT ALREADY YOU FUCKING PUSSY*

*OH I AM GONNA-*

“COME AT ME BITCH*

*More incoherent screams, breaking of glass, grunts of pain*

Hector: We need to stop them before Iphigenia grows up without her parents.

Andromache: Right. You can go first baby. Tell us how that works out.

Helen: Sometimes I just want rip out Agamemnon’s vocal chords, and shove them down his ass.

Diomedes: A capital choice. Would you like help?

Odysseus/Penelope: No.

Hector: Ok, ok, but we have to do something before we have to talk to the police about-

Iphigenia: Aunty Pen, what is a va-vacuous moron?

Achilles: ……

Patroclus: …….

Diomedes: …….

Odysseus: ………

Penelope: …..

Hector: …….

Andromache: ……

Helen: ……

Menelaus:……

Achilles: Ah shit.

Menelaus: Oh come on, Achilles

Penelope: Honey, how about we talk…outside?

Iphigenia: Why? Mommy and Daddy loudly talking is normal. They turn on the tv for me and loudly talk. Sometimes they forget to turn it on and I hear everything.

Odysseus: Ice cream. That is the only way to fix this. And a good therapist. Let’s start with ice cream

Diomedes: Ok, everyone we have to time this perfectly. I think we aren’t in the mood for taking sides. Everyone good?

(The group nods)

Diomedes: Ok…wait…NOW!

Agamemnon: Oh look, Hector would you-

Clytemnestra: Shut up, Helen please tell him-

Odysseus:sorrywearekidnappingtyourchildbecauseyoubotharetoxictoeverybodybyeeeeeeeeeeeee

*They make it out the door*

Iphigenia: sooooo, what is a vacu-vaco-

Penelope: Let’s just get ice cream ok honey?

Diomedes: Can’t wait to do this shit next year.

Achilles: Another housewarming party? They just got this one.

Helen: They also get run out of every neighborhood they stay in due to the noise complaints. Two months, max.

Achilles:

Patroclus:

Helen: Welcome to the family.

[minlicious]

i hate it when someone hates on my favorite character but their arguments are actually valid and make sense but i can’t agree with them because i made liking that character half of my personality

[1ndivara]

KLYTEMNESTRA & AGAMEMNON (CIRCA 500 BC)

inspired by "judith with the head of holofernes" by louis finson (1574-1617 AD)

[lesbian-iphigenia]

I keep thinking about how actually devasting is must have been for Iphigenia, who all those years longed for her family, to find out both of her parents are dead, that her mother tried to kill her little brother, that said little brother killed their mother with the help of their sister, that her mother abused both of her sisters, and that her little brother is currently hunted by the furies. Like, it genuinely must have been a lot to take in

[thhouseofblack]

Penelope does not like Orestes and Electra.

She has heard all about how they've been forgiven of their crimes, of their terrible childhood and of all the cruelties that their mother unleashed on them. She understands all the reasonings Telemachus gives for why they did what they did.

But in the back of her mind all Penelope can think of is her elder sister Clytemnestra - whose warm laughter still continues to be amongst her favourite sounds, whose soft hands gently carded through her hair so many times, whose lap she had rested her head on so many nights, who had wiped away her tears and held her close to her heart, who had been the closest thing she had to a mother after her true one left for her rivers.

Penelope understands Orestes and Electra, but she does not like them, she cannot forgive them.

[theodysseyofhomer]

clytemnestra loses iphigenia at the onset of the war and is never able to love any of her other children, because she can focus all her energy on revenge

andromache loses astyanax in the last days of the war and still loves her child born into slavery, having no power to get revenge but focusing her energy on his survival

clytemnestra's power is limited and gendered, and certainly many real enslaved people have continued the cycle of abuse with their children... suffering makes people worse in almost every way and every case, etc. but i do think it's an interesting point of comparison for the victimization of each woman with respect to her children in these tragedies. clytemnestra's most important fantasy is of getting revenge for her dead child, so that in a way she sacrifices her other children, and andromache's is of getting to keep her living child

[psstwantsomecheese]

Very House of Atreus coded of Feanor to sail to another land to fulfill an oath he swore despite his wife's prophecy that if he went there one of his kids would die.