#The story of Demeter and Persephone is so tragic | Explore Tumblr posts and blogs

malusokay · 5 months ago

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The Pomegranate Plague of Gen Z Poets

First, it was the moon. Then cigarettes. Then, girls by windows, ethereal in their ruin. Now? Pomegranates. (from my substack)

If you’ve spent enough time around poetry circles, you’ve seen it before. The doomed love, the Persephone complex, the vaguely sacrificial undertones. And, of course, the fruit.

The Persephone Myth (The Popular Version)

So you think you know the story: Persephone, wreathed in flowers, is stolen by Hades, dragged screaming into the Underworld. Her mother, Demeter, weeps and starves the earth in protest. Zeus, eventually deciding this is a problem, orders Persephone’s return—but oops, she ate six pomegranate seeds, so now she’s doomed forever.

That’s the version that survives in girl poetry, anyway.

What Promegerants Girls won’t tell you? The actual myth is a mess. There is no single, definitive version—just fragments, scraps stitched together across centuries. And the pomegranate seed detail?

It barely even shows up.

What We Actually Have:

• Persephone’s myth wasn’t even originally Greek. The story of a goddess being dragged into the underworld predates Greek mythology entirely.

• In Mesopotamian myth, Ishtar (Inanna) descends into the underworld to confront Ereshkigal, queen of the dead. She is stripped of her power and trapped, only escaping by offering someone else in her place—a theme that later appears in Persephone’s myth. This suggests Persephone’s story wasn’t a Greek invention but an adaptation of older Near Eastern fertility-death-rebirth cycles.

• Despoina (“the Mistress”) was worshipped before Persephone—and before Hades was even relevant. In older, pre-Olympian cult traditions, Despoina was the actual chthonic goddess of the underworld. She was venerated alongside Demeter and was probably a far more powerful, independent figure before later mythology reduced Persephone to “Hades’ wife.” Despoina’s cult was deliberately secretive, meaning much of her lore is lost—but she was deeply tied to the Eleusinian Mysteries, which were about life, death, and rebirth, not tragic romance.

• Hades wasn’t even a major figure in early versions of the myth. Before he was written in as “the husband,” the underworld was associated more with Gaia (Earth) and Nyx (Night). Hades’ later dominance in the story came as Olympian mythology reshaped older chthonic traditions.

• Persephone was originally Kore (“the Maiden”)—not a tragic heroine, but an archetype of the life-death-rebirth cycle tied to agriculture. She wasn’t a person; she was a function. The whole point was that she disappears, then re-emerges—her personality was secondary to the cosmic process she represented. Only much later did people start treating her as an individual.

• Hesiod’s Theogony (~8th century BCE), one of the oldest Greek texts, barely mentions Persephone. To him, she’s just Hades’ wife, no backstory necessary. This matters because it shows that her abduction wasn’t even a central myth at first—it developed later.

• The Homeric Hymn to Demeter (~7th century BCE) is our earliest and most detailed source. But forget romance—it’s a political nightmare. Hades kidnaps Persephone (the Greek verb used, ἁρπάζω, literally means “to snatch away”—no courtship, no tragic longing). Demeter shuts down the harvest, and Zeus steps in not out of fatherly love, but because no crops mean no sacrifices, and no sacrifices mean starving gods.

The pomegranate? One sentence. Persephone eats something in the Underworld, so she has to stay. That’s it. The number of seeds? Not even mentioned. The whole “I bit into a pomegranate and now I am bound to darkness forever ”dramatics? A complete invention.

• Ovid’s Metamorphoses (~8 CE) is where we finally get the six seeds detail—but Ovid was Roman, writing centuries after the Greek versions had already evolved. His retelling heightens the drama, turning Persephone into a tragic, doomed figure rather than a cosmic force tied to ritual.

• Later Orphic traditions tried to clean it up, recasting Persephone as the mother of Zagreus (a god later merged with Dionysus), tying her to death, rebirth, and mystery cults. At this point, the myth had already spiralled into layers of mysticism.

• Persephone wasn’t always tragic—she became terrifying. The helpless waif image is a modern fabrication. The ancient sources tell a different story—one where Persephone is feared, not mourned.

• In Euripides’ Helen (412 BCE), she is invoked as a vengeful queen of the dead.

• In Homer’s Odyssey (Book 10), Odysseus fears Persephone’s wrath during his necromantic ritual—she is powerful enough to control the dead without Hades.

• Hecate was Persephone’s underworld counterpart and guide. In later versions, Hecate leads Persephone back to the upper world, further reinforcing Hecate’s enduring role in the chthonic realm.

• In Roman tradition, Proserpina (Persephone) was linked to Libera, a goddess of wild fertility and ecstatic rites. This completely contradicts the modern image of her as a fragile, tragic figure.

The Pomegranate Wasn’t Inherently Tragic

• In Hippocratic medical texts, pomegranate juice was used for contraception and abortion remedies—a practical, everyday association, not one of doom.

• In Pliny the Elder’s Natural History (1st century CE), pomegranates were used to treat fevers and digestive issues. No poetic suffering, just ancient medicine.

• In Greek funerary practices, pomegranates symbolised rebirth, not entrapment. They weren’t about being bound to darkness forever—they were about the cycle of life continuing.

Why This Completely Destroys the Promegerants Version of Persephone

1. The myth is about agriculture and divine power, not doomed love. The earliest versions barely mention Hades—this was Demeter’s story, a myth about the life cycle, cosmic balance, and the survival of humanity.

2. Persephone wasn’t always Persephone. She was Kore, an agricultural symbol, not a tragic heroine. Her function came first, her personality second. The idea of her as a fully realised, suffering individual came centuries later.

3. She wasn’t even the first queen of the underworld. Despoina was worshipped before her—an older, more powerful chthonic goddess with nothing to do with victimhood or romance.

4. The pomegranate was never central to the original myth. It’s a tiny, passing detail used as an explanation for why Persephone had to stay in the Underworld. The number of seeds? A Roman invention.

5. The whole myth wasn’t even Greek to begin with. It likely evolved from Mesopotamian myths like Ishtar’s descent, meaning the Promegerants version is a distortion of a distortion.

6. Persephone wasn’t a victim—she was a force of nature. The later versions of her myth don’t show her as tragic—they show her as terrifying. She was a queen who ruled the dead, feared even by heroes. If Promegerants Girls really wanted to stay true to the myth, they wouldn’t write about Persephone tragically eating seeds—they’d write about her punishing mortals for disturbing the dead.

From Chthonic Queen to Tragic Girlcore

The Promegerants version of Persephone strips her of her original role and reduces her to an aesthetic prop. In the oldest sources, she isn’t even a person—she’s a cosmic force, an idea before she’s a character.

Persephone was never just a tragic girl in a dark room with red-stained lips. She was a goddess of cycles, a ritual figure whose presence dictated the survival of humanity. The oldest myths barely even cared about her personal emotions—because that wasn’t the point.

And the pomegranate? Once a symbol of fertility and power, now just a moody Tumblr metaphor for doomed relationships. Would the ancient Greeks recognize Promegerants Persephone?

Absolutely not.

They’d probably assume she was some mediocre Roman poet’s overdramatic rewrite.

In other words: the version we cling to is a late, Romanized, overly romanticised distortion of a much darker and weirder myth—one that was never about love, tragedy, or women choosing their suffering.

Why Has This Myth Been Hijacked?

Because it’s too easy. The modern interpretation lets poets turn Persephone into:

• A stolen innocence narrative—without engaging with its actual horror.

• A tragic queen figure—without ever giving her power.

• A martyr for womanhood—as if eating a fruit were some grand metaphor for the inevitability of suffering.

But Persephone’s story was never about being loved and ruined.

It was about bargaining, power, and gods who don’t care about human grief.

The Pomegranate Problem™

At this point, the pomegranate isn’t a symbol—it’s a decorative prop.

Its original meanings—fertility, power, the tension between life and death—have been stripped away, replaced with moody girlhood aesthetics.

Poets don’t use it because they understand its history. They use it because it sounds expensive—like a fruit for people who romanticise heartbreak in foreign cities.

But if your poem still works after swapping “pomegranate” for “grapes”, then what are we even doing here?

Read This Before You Write Another Pomegranate Poem

• Homer’s Odyssey → Pomegranates appear in King Alcinous’ eternal orchard, a symbol of wealth, abundance, and divine favour. Not doom.

• Euripides’ Ion → Associated with Aphrodite, symbolising fertility, passion, and desire. Again—not doom.

• Aristophanes’ Lysistrata → Used as an innuendo for female sexuality (which, frankly, would make for a far more interesting poem).

• Dionysian Mysteries → Linked to ecstatic rites, resurrection cults, and the cycle of life and death. If you want to write about pomegranates and darkness, this would actually make sense.

• Roman Religion → Sacred to Juno, particularly in marriage and childbirth rituals, reinforcing their connection to fertility and renewal, not suffering.

• Theophrastus’ Enquiry into Plants → Describes pomegranates as a cultivated luxury fruit, prized for its sweetness, medicinal properties, and status.

• Herodotus’ Histories → Mentions Persian warriors decorating their spears with pomegranates, symbolising strength, fertility, and victory.

• Pausanias’ Description of Greece → Describes pomegranate offerings at Demeter’s sanctuaries, representing fertility, rebirth, and ritual purification—never suffering.

• Plutarch’s Moralia → Links pomegranates to beauty, sensuality, and indulgence in Greek and Roman culture—so, more hedonistic pleasure, less tragic metaphor.

Next time someone writes about a pomegranate-stained mouth, ask them if they mean Persephone or Aristophanes’ sex jokes.

How to Write a Pomegranate Poem That Survives Scrutiny

If you must use it, at least be rigorous. If you’re going full Persephone-core, then be specific. Make it about something real.

Tell us if the juice stains the sheets, if the seeds taste like metal, if they stick between your teeth like regret.

Don’t just drop in “pomegranate” and expect us to do the heavy lifting.

Or consider letting the myth go.

There are so many other symbols, so many richer, underused classical references.

And If You’re Tired of the Pomegranate, Try These Instead

there’s a whole world of classical symbols that carry just as much weight—without the overuse. Here are a few:

Chthonic & Underworld Imagery:

• Asphodel – The ghostly, liminal flowers of the underworld in Greek myth, growing where souls linger. Less overdone than pomegranates, just as eerie.

• Lethe – The river of forgetfulness. Its waters erase memory, a far more unsettling metaphor for loss than a single piece of fruit.

• Orphic Gold Leaves – Real funeral tablets placed with the dead, inscribed with guidance for navigating the afterlife. The ultimate memento mori.

• Owls – Athena’s symbol, but also a nocturnal watcher associated with wisdom, death, and the unknown.

Fertility, Desire & Ruin:

• Fig Trees – Symbolizing sensuality, abundance, and decay (the Greeks also had fig-wood coffins).

• Laurel Wreaths – Victory and poetic ambition, but also a crown of temporary glory—since laurel leaves wither fast.

• Myrrh – A resin used for perfume and burial rites, evoking both seduction and decay. (Also linked to Myrrha, who was cursed to fall in love with her own father. Greek myths were wild.)

Dionysian Madness & Ecstasy:

• Thyrsus – A staff tipped with ivy and pinecones, wielded by Dionysus and his followers. Represents intoxication, divine frenzy, and the thin line between revelry and destruction.

• Ivy – Unlike flowers, it never dies in winter. Clings, suffocates, overtakes. A more interesting metaphor for entanglement than Persephone’s six seeds.

If you must use a pomegranate, at least make it bleed. But if you’re ready for something richer—there are so many other symbols waiting.

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a-mythologynerd · 4 months ago

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Alex Stern, Darlington, and Dante in Hell

DISCLAIMER: Okay so I'm realizing this post might have several parts as I'm only like half way through the Cantos and there are definitely more connections (i.e. Alex waking up on the second trip to Hell in the river of boiling blood and the 7th circle of Hell.) Also, people literally write whole ass academic articles about intertextuality and I do not have that much free time so if anyone is scholar of Dante please feel free to chime in. So. Also this is so long. I am both sorry and begging you to make the hours typing and looking into this worth it.

Okay, so as most folks know and probably connected, Dante's Inferno starts with:

"At one point midway on our path in life, I came around and found myself now searching through a dark wood, the right way blurred and lost" -Inferno, Canto 1, lines 1-3

and when Team Murder awakes they find themselves in a similar orchard:

"She looked up and realized she was staring through the branches of a tree, many trees. She was in some kind of forest... no, an orchard, the branches black and glittering and heavily laden with fruit, its skin darkest purple." -Hell Bent, pg. 271

Now this is also connected to the Tree of Knowledge by Dawes (pg. 272) and of course we get some Hymn of Demeter like pomegranates from the orchard of Hades that Persephone eats.

But Leigh Bardugo in her many connections of cthonic stories (love Darlington's line about who is Dante, Virgil, Beatrice, Orpheus, and Eurydice) is of course pulling directly from the Inferno in more ways than the opening. In Dante's Inferno, of which I am no expert, as Dante is being guided through the underworld by Virgil he passes through several circles of hell each focused on the punishment of a certain sin and sinner.

Now Darlington is trapped in Hell after being eaten by the Hell Beast, specifically because he mercy killed his grandfather and is therefore a murderer. But here's the thing. He's not punished for murder. He's sent to Golgarot who is a demon prince of greed.

"Turner tapped the book he was reading. 'You thought Darlington got eaten, right? By Mammon?' 'Maybe,' Dawes said cautiously. 'There are a lot of demons associated with greed. Devils. Gods.' Greed is a sin in every language. That was what Darlington had said. Sandow's hunger for money. Darlington's desire for knowledge." -Hell Bent pg. 311

Darlington is ambitious. This goes as far as his Hell vision from Golgarot. He doesn't dream of tenure or just a filled house or feeling like the hero. My guy dreams of being able to know everything ever in a never ending symposium where he also has traveled the world and absorbed the wisdom of mystics and scholars by simply touching them. That's not just ambition that drives someone to train and hone himself for adventures to come, that's greed. And his mortal soul's punishment is tragic and narratively fitting surrounded by the ruins of a legacy he has barely been keeping afloat with odd jobs and his bare hands:

"He had a rock in his hands, and as they watched, he lugged it over to what might have been the beginning or end of a wall and laid it carefully atop the other stones...He didn't stop moving, didn't alter his gaze...Darlington didn't break his stride, but Alex could see his chest rising and falling as if he was fighting for air. 'Please,' he gritted out. 'Can't...stop.'" -Hell Bent pg. 277

Except it's more than just narratively fitting. It's quite similar punishment for greed and avarice Dante describes in the 4th circle of hell where the guilty push stones or weights (depending on the translation) over and over again and do not speak to Dante and Virgil, other souls guilty of anger and melancholy babble nonsense. The Canto begins with Plutus, the Greek and Roman god of riches, wealth, and abundance, speaking nonsense words to Virgil and Dante. Virgil, a great speaker himself, responds in telling him to be silent and calls him a wolf. The Commentary in my translation by Robin Kirkpatrick discusses how Dante equates greed and the pursuit of specifically money as a pervision of intelligence. The lack of speech and inability to speak in contrast to Virgil is as Kirkpatrick puts it,

"Dante combines an irrepressible linguistic inventiveness with a profound sense that corruptions of mind and sensibility are directly reflected in corrupted applications of language, or in the lessening of a capacity for coherent thought and word...Intelligence here is reduced to the rolling of boulders, a subjection of mind and energy to mere materiality."- Commentary and Notes, pg. 341-342

And um. Yeah.

"Darlington had been frightening to the shades of the Veil and even to himself. It had been...If he was honest, it had been exhilarating. He had been a creature of the mind since he was a boy– languages, history, science. The rest of it, the training he'd put himself through–fighting, swordplay, even acrobatics– had all been in service to the future adventures he'd been sure he would have. But the great invitation had never come...And now? Was he human enough? He had been able to sit at the table and hold a conversation. He hadn't growled at anyone or broken any furniture, but it hadn't been easy. Demons were not thinking creatures. They operated on instinct, driven by their appetites. He had prided himself on being nothing like that. Never rash. Guided by reason. But now he wanted in a way he never had. He had been tempted to bury his face in his soup bowl and lap at it like a greedy animal. He wanted to place himself between Alex's legs now and do the same to her." -Hell Bent, pg. 414

and

"He had been prepared to speak, a quote from... His demon mind couldn't manage it. He remembered Alex with her book of poems. Hart Crane. He grasped at the words." -Hell Bent, pg. 465

But the connection doesn't stop there. Dante sees several beasts when he first enters the woods. They are warped versions of a leopard, a lion, and a wolf. One is a leopard who is often interpreted as a representation of lust, the other is lion for pride, and finally and most relevant to us, a wolf for greed. The wolf that Virgil calls Plutus. The wolves that guard Golgarot's realm that are not quite wolves. That chase our Team Murder and become their demons.

So. Long story short. Darlington and his demon form are not just a metaphor for beast like animal instincts of the inhuman. It's another reflection of greed and what in pursuing it and worshiping it, leaves one without human reason, speech, the mind. All things that define Darlington and he sees as integral to his personhood. Except his greed in pursuing those very things of knowledge and magic and wisdom and the unknown leave him with less than he started with. And its tragic and amazing and I need to read more analyses of Inferno and the rest of the Comedy and the third book needs to come out so we can see how else Leigh Bardugo combined the circles of hell and New Haven.

#alex stern #darlington #darlingstern #ninth house #hell bent #leigh bardugo #dark academia #literature analysis #dante #inferno #dante's inferno

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boymanmaletheshequel · 8 months ago

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One facet of Hellenistic and Roman, /Greco Roman paganism that I’ve always found extremely interesting to me, is how inherently human and relatable it’s gods, and their correlating counterparts are, especially when compared to deities in other ancient religions. They are divine, of course, this is made clear enough, but they all have aspects and traits to them that are inherently human. Rage, lust, joy, love, conflict. They represent, if nothing else, key elements of humanity and the human condition, which is something that no other ancient religion I’ve studied quite compares to in the same way. And not only that, but their relationship to people and humans as gods is clearly very symbiotic. They rely on their subjects for their fulfillment, interact with them directly on a regular basis, and often times even respect and revere them as not necessarily always equals, but as at the very least, creatures worthy of their consideration and respect, sometimes even falling in love with, and baring children with them. This is something that doesn’t really happen in any other ancient religion I’ve seen, sure, there are aspects of it in them, but not nearly are they portrayed as objectively or centrally as they are in Hellenism and Roman paganism. Each god represents some aspect of humanity in ways that are inherently non-Devine, Aphrodite is a lover, sometimes desperate to a vulnerable degree you wouldn’t expect a god to be. Dionysus is regularly consumed by madness as a result of his addiction and mental illness, and falls into spirals of depravity that are hauntingly ungodly. Artemis hunts even though she doesn’t need to, she respects her body as a goddess woman just as much as any human woman would, and fights back just as violently as well. Apollo finds much of his joy and happiness through the humans he falls in love with, and faces much of his suffering and sadness through them as well. Persephone fucking dies. maybe not literally in the sense of human, medical death, but absolutely metaphorically, and the grief her mother Demeter experiences is so inherently human, and so shockingly, gut wrenchingly tragic, that it is pretty obvious that this is what her story is meant to represent: a divine allegory for death and grief, an element that so many religions completely separate from their deities. Even Zeus, the primary deity, is a father figure who’s connection and relativity to fatherhood as seen in human men is almost identical. and if it weren’t for the pre-established lore and status of him as a an extremely powerful deity, there are moments in his Mythos where you might even forget that he’s a god, an all powerful, all divine, objectively non human god to begin with. I think it’s what makes Hellenism so emotional and so drawing to me, and to many other pagans, it’s a relationship that is mutual, and relatable, which is an element that is lacking in so many religions, even the major ones like Christianity and Islam. Yes, there are still elements of this in those religions, but it always feels like the stories constantly hammer in the fact that they are divine, so divine, so utterly unrelatable, so inherently disconnected from their subjects and their plights as a superior enitity, that there’s a limit to how connected one can feel to them. In hellenismos, this limit doesn’t seem to exist, and that’s something that makes it so much more personal and fascinating to me than any other religion I’ve studied. The gods are us, and we are the gods. At the end of the day, I think that’s what all religions should be about, and ultimately, are about, wether we realize it or not.

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likethexan · 1 year ago

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rate all the greek mytho married couples from most to least interesting (or your favorite to least favorite, depends on you!)

For fun I’ve split them into four categories:

The Really Interesting category, made their relationship everyone’s problem:

- Zeus and Hera (duh)

- Helen and Menelaus (happy ending)

- Helen and Paris (oof! ending)

- Odysseus and Penelope (has a whole word dedicated to their like-minded thinking)

- Rhea and Cronus (tragedy and cannibalism)

- Jason and Medea (tragedy and filicide)

- Clytemnestra and Agamemnon (tragedy and filicide and mariticide and matricide and misogyny and and OH gods-)

- Peleus and Thetis (the arranged mortal marriage blues, but in my head Thetis immortalized Peleus somehow by force and keeps him in her attic) (Because gods be damned if she will be the only one doomed to grieve Achilles)

- Orpheus and Eurydice (mf really went to hell for her and still didn’t get her back :<)

- Hector and Andromache (relatively the most normal ones in this category but still very tragic. Like don’t even ask.)

- Hecuba and Priam (them too)

The Really Cute couple category, bonus if it took them long to get there:

- Hephaestus and Aglaia

- Eros and Psyche

- Dionysus and Ariadne

- Perseus and Andromeda (they kinda remind me of Prince Philip and Aurora which is cute)

- Hebe and Heracles (listennn. they’re cute and important to the Heracles-Hera feud ending)

- Hippomenes and Atalanta (RIP Meleager)

- Philemon and Baucis (one of my fave Zeus myths)

- Alcestis and Admetus (Orpheus and Eurydice but with a happy ending thanks to the interference of Apollo)

- Iphis and Ianthe (trans man rep is good someone PLEASE write about them)

- Tethys and Oceanus (placing them here idc they are cute in my head!! The only titan couple who survived rip to Coeus/Phoebe and all the failed marriages thanks to the Titanomachy)

The Uhhh… Okay Category

- Hades and Persephone (placing them here because while I do think their relationship is interesting AND I find good various retellings of them (excluding LO) like Hades Supergiant, Hadestown, etc I long for more neutral/nuanced takes on the kidnapping, not just by their romance (or lack of romance) but Demeter’s role in the story to be more respected. (It also can’t be helped that HxP has the most over saturated greek mythology content everywhere that people get tired of seeing them, especially portrayed as the “only good greek myth couple” like okay get outta here)

- Gaia and Uranus (I like them, their relationship is clearly important for Cronus’ succession story, but their conflict to me seems so.. short lived? Like you have your son castrate your husband for imprisoning your less appealing babies but now the strife is gone and you work together to tell your son he is destined to be overthrown by his son and telling your grandson to cannibalize his wife as good advice??? Like good for them ig but Rhea and Cronus just do it better imo)

- Hypnos and Pasithea (getting ur wife from a deal with her mom that makes you commit treason by inducing your king with sleep… nothing sketchy about this at allll) (but maybe they’re cute and functional besides that who knows)

- Ceyx and Alcyone (in one version they didn’t do it, in the other they’re just… very dumb to call themselves Zeus and Hera.)

- Procris and Cephalus (eos RUINS lives)

- Hephaestus and Aphrodite (lets be glad it ended bc while they are interesting and Hephaestus did make their marital strife public, I just think they had a better relationship after the divorce)

The Kinda Boring category (to me, subjectively, put down the pitchforks)

- Poseidon and Amphitrite (do they have one myth together that isn’t the Delphin seduction myth… Amphitrite is nice to Poseidon’s worst son. That’s. That’s kinda it. I wish we had more, like how they are with their children or literally anything else to depict a dynamic between them. Especially since they ARE supposed to be the king and queen of the sea. But nope. At least with Oceanus and Tethys they’re both obscure in their personalities so headcanoning stuff is fun to me. Poseidon having a well established personality and Amphitrite… oh dear Amphitrite…)

- Cadmus and Harmonia (they’re a couple in order become ascendants of more tragic humans like Actaeon, Semele and that’s it. They become Snakes in the end to repent for Cadmus’ mistake. Nothing really about their relationship with each other)

- Deucalion and Pyrrha (The Greek rendition of Christianity’s Noah’s Ark and yeah. Thats it)

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aliciavance4228 · 1 year ago

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Unpopular Opinion: Demeter Did Nothing Wrong

Alright, maybe the title isn't 100% accurate since she almost wiped the entire human race from earth, but you got the idea.

The thing with Demeter is that nowdays she is demonized/villainized all the time. And the most ironic part is that she is demonized by feminists, which leaves me quite confused, considering the fact that she would technically be a great example of female strength, especially when raporting to "Homeric Hymns to Demeter". But before discussing the myth of seasons, let's talk about her background story:

One thing that is certain about Demeter is that she had horrible experiences with almost all men from her life. Her father ate her. Poseidon raped her disguised as a horse. Zeus raped her as well (which led to the birth of Persephone). Iasion was one of the few men from her life who loved and respected her, and whom she lived with for a while before Zeus became jealous and killed him; yes, he is THAT much of a d-

The only one of her brothers who didn’t hurt her in any way at that time was Hades. And if you take into account the versions of the myths in which Hades was born before her that means that he was the one who took care of her as well during the time when they were trapped in their father's stomach. So it is pretty much implied that he was the only one of The Big Three whom she trusted the most, which makes the discovery that he was the one who kidnapped her daughter even more tragic.

Now, about "Homeric Hymns to Demeter": first of all I want to point out the fact that this myth isn't about Hades and Persephone. They are mostly mentioned in this story rather than actually playing an active role in it, because they have more of a symbolic value above it all. Wheter Persephone came to love Hades in time or despised him for the rest of her eternity is irrelevant, because this myth is not about her but Demeter.

Demeter had already faced some disturbing experiences even before Persephone was kidnapped. And considering the fact that her own daughter was a result of SA, it makes perfect sense why she would be protective towards her and raise her outside of Mount Olympus; every woman that was raped would fear that her daughter would face the same cruel fate.

About the abduction part: it is revealed to us at the beginning that Hades asked Zeus if he can marry his daughter, and he agreed. Hades only needed the approval of the father in order to wed her. Back in the Ancient Greece, especially in the Athens, people had a very patriarchal view on marriage. On short: the marriage would be usually planned between the groom and the father of the bride, her mother not knowing anything about what was going on until her daughter was already taken away from her. This myth is a representation of how the Patriarchy was a dominant system even among deities, with Zeus as its supreme figure.

At this point, the myth of seasons can be already considered a comfort story for mothers who had to endure the loss of their daughters either through death or marriage. This myth, however, has a lighter note as well, and that because Demeter, instead of accepting the fate of her daughter, left her anger free and did anything she could so that she would ultimately convince Zeus to give her daughter back, the last solution being leaving hundreds of humans dying of cold and hunger. This part basically shows how even a patriarchal figure like Zeus can be defeated by a mother's rage (or pure female rage, take it as you wish). Even though this myth is supposed to tell us just how seasons appeared, it can also be used as a moral lesson for men: it is better to consult with your wife and daughter before making a decision, or else there will be GREAT CONSEQUENCES.

And finally, one moment that is indeed very touching yet most people are ignoring for some reason is when her mother Rhea appears in front of her and starts to comfort her after she found out that Persephone ate the promeganate seeds, showing how a mother's mouring over her daughter was a common feeling among most female deities from Greek Mythology.

Now, is Demeter perfect? Absolutely not. And that is okay, because instead of that she is supposed to show in this myth a lot of humane and realistic nuances about what being a woman is like. She is a complex character, and completely demonizing her just because you ship Hades and Persephone is quite disturbing in my honest opinion. Wheter or not you like this couple (I won't condemn you because they are still one of the most stable relationships from Greek Mythology, but that basically shows just how f*cked up myths are in general lmao but anyway....), you have to understand the fact that the "Beauty and Beast" and "A mother's love will always conquer" are two tropes that can co-exist, and that things aren’t just black-and-white.

#greek mythology #greek gods #demeter #zeus #hades #persephone

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1dfanfictionbookcovers · 4 months ago

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Young & Beautiful by Velvetoscar ( @mizzwilde ) -

Covers here, here, here and here

favourite quotes:

The italic quotes are Oscar Wilde’s quotes that are part of the story.

Perhaps that’s why he’s only a shell—he’s too much for himself.

[…]if Harry is indeed ‘damaged’ or whatnot, how is Louis to know if he’s even able to be ‘saved’? What if it’s too late? What if what’s been broken just can’t be fixed, and in concerning himself for this hot mess of a boy, Louis just embarks on a dead-end journey of useless stress and concern?

Harry’s somewhere beyond the realm of existence, in the dark corners that get forgotten or shunned, and he’s far away from everybody, so far away[…]

[…]and sometimes, when he’s quoting some novel or poet or author or whateverthefuck, the tragically beautiful words match the tragically beautiful prisms in Harry’s eyes[…]

I knew nothing but shadows and I thought them to be real.

Behind every exquisite thing that existed, there was something tragic.

You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit.

Harry Styles may be assembled from destruction. But how could something so genuinely beautiful be created by someone who was ‘evil’? By someone who supposedly had nothing left inside?

“Persephone has returned to Hades.” […] “The last leaf has fallen,” he says simply, pointing to the ground. “Demeter’s weeping because her daughter’s returned to the underworld.” […] “Louis purses his lips before walking over to the fallen leaf, plucking it up from the ground. Harry’s head snaps to him. “What are you doing?” “Keeping hold of it, then.” “Why?” he asks, startled. “In case she ever misses Persephone, I’ll show it to her”

Because I understand that it doesn’t have to be perfect to be liked

I’m well aware that I’m not weak, Ireland. Well aware. But there’s nothing weak about caring about somebody and showing them compassion. All right? There’s a strength in that, even.

So he watches Harry scramble around looking for answers, his face slack and perfect and the very portrait of a Shakespeare tragedy. It’s like watching the final scene of Hamlet, all within his features. A mass murder, a total destruction, a bloodbath. Except Louis thinks Harry is probably Ophelia and he’s probably already drowned.

Truth be told, Harry probably really is made of delicate pottery. With tiny, tiny cracks covering the surface.

He’s shaded and tired. He looks like a poem. One of those mournfully beautiful ones with short, unfamiliar words that sound ethereal when spoken and completely nonsensical when thought. The kind you find in the back of the book and dog-ear because you want to poke at it a bit later, when your head’s a bit clearer. Written by a Romantic poet with a name that sounds like a soft breath and a reputation.

It’s sort of like when there’s a wildflower that sprouts from an errant crack in concrete—a small, glorious splash of color that struggles through the mundane and changes the world with its simplistic perfection. That’s what Harry’s smiles are like.

“I’m sick of discussing the world, Louis. I’m going to forget the world.” A pause. “You’re welcome to forget it with me, if you like.”

But Louis finds that he wants to paint him. With colors and textures that haven’t even been invented.

The sun escapes from Harry’s lips.

“That doesn’t make sense,” he whispers. “You make me want to not make sense”

Just because someone like you exists… You made me fall in love with the world again.

The curves of your lips rewrite history

“The moon knows,” is what he says, breath colored in liquor and a smile. […]“The moon knows that we’re in love.”

You have shown me color in a world of gray and you are cruel, Louis Tomlinson, for you take the color with you every moment that you’re not beside me. You are cruel because I will gladly suffer until the world has returned.

#ao3 #ao3 writer #thelarriefics #trackinghome #favourite quotes #young and beautiful #velvetoscar #enemies to lovers #200k #larry fanficion #one direction fanfiction #larry fanfic

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crazylittlejester · 1 year ago

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Saw the post about the Chain and their god domains and my greek mythos obsessed brain got scritched so here is the Chain as Greek gods/mythos:

Time: The old man gave me such a hard time. absolutely going insane over him. He’s Hades. being one of the big three (this fucker split the timeline (almost like how the underworld is split)). Ive never finished MM or OoT but i believe the lore is that all the masks are possessed to put it simply, thus the spirits granting link his power, making Time a maestro of the dead. Many interpretations of hades also depict him as cunning, a trickster, while also being stern, much like our resident little shit (affectionate). Hermes was a big contender here for that reason.

Sky: This was a toss up but im gonna have to say Zeus honestly, mister Godslayer himself. less of a connection between their personalities honestly and more just focusing on their similar dynamics, skills, and symbolism. Obviously we have our favorite lightning motif, plus the position of leadership they both share - in the sense that zeus is more or less the leader of the gods and sky being the ‘leader’ so to speak of the timeline. Plus the parallels between demise and kronos, and zeus/sky’s respective roles there. It was between the big man or persephone.

Twilight: Artemis!! Our very literal leader of the pack. Goddess of the hunt, patron of animals, domain over the moon (cough twilight cough). Though, Demeter and hestia were fighting me here, the fursona won over the country bumpkin sadge.

Warriors: You are Athena! badass in the arena! /ref. Honestly, i feel like i should be assigning them their ‘obvious’ gods and then give them one that attaches to them more symbolically. Yes, everyone’s favorite captain is THE captain goddess. Cunning, strategist, warhead, intelligent, and alot of people forget that Athena is both charismatic and incredibly physically beautiful, in most adaptations. she was in the lineup for paris and guided the trojan war. I forget who it was on here that is a big “wars = helen of troy” truther but theyre absolutely so correct.

Legend: Also a tricky toss up, but i ultimately landed on apollo. Apollo’s known for being a sort of jack of all trades god, between his dominion over the sun, medicine, music, archery, and more. With the vet’s all encompassing experience, with his multitude of instruments and proficiencies in different magical items it made sense. Me, personally, I loved the stories of apollos shape-shifting mortal ventures more than say zeus or any of the other gods. Also, depending on your characterization of the vet, their supposed personalities line up quite well, with apollo being charming and somewhat arrogant/snarky with others

Hyrule: This feels left-field but rulie gets to be Persephone! Adept with magic, goddess of fertility and the harvest and just general growth (of nature), with the double edge of being the queen of the underworld. Ugh im so obsessed with downfall duo rulie is so tragic. left with a desolate wasteland, yet (depending on characterization) ushering in and doing his damndest to nurture life and growth. I love the headcanons where rulie is a survivalist through and through, proficiencies in botany and herbology, respect for the land and its inhabitants.

Wild: Demeter! Wild is of the land, they are one and the same. The way his world is absolutely teeming with life, and the way he is molded to adapt and live with the land to complete his adventure,,, ugh its too good. He is the most in tune with the wolves, the bees, the cows, the reeds, the flowers, the dragons, the spirits, they ARE him. he woke up with NOTHING, except a vast land full to bursting with life and lessons.

Four: Hephaestus, obviously. dont get me wrong, I love four so much, but anything else felt blasphemous (The way i could write essays about it—). He is the god of blacksmithing, if i assigned him anything else i fear he may just manage to kill me.

Wind: Notos! God of the east Wind, known for the bringing of summer, cyclones, and warmth. love that funky little whirlwind hes so fun and spunky. being a god of wind was so on the nose it was too good. I didnt ever consider poseidon, winds too squishy and fluid for that. this kid is bouncing around like a cat 5 hurricane he is the wind, he is free (to cause chaos).

Ugh i love yapping about the mythologies. i may do this again except with minor gods/demigods (i will get back to that legend-achilles parallel i swear). I hope this was amusing to you

OKAY OKAY GO OFF!!!!

(I’m a huge Wars = Helen of Troy truther, I ain’t the only one, but I’ve yapped about it a lot akdkkdk)

you absolutely ate this up on my god i agree i agree i agree i agree. LEGEND AND ACHILLES?? SIGN ME THE FUCK UP IF YOU EVER FEEL LIKE YAPPIN ABOUT THAT THE FLOOR IS YOURS AND THE ASK BOX IS OPEN ID LOVE TO HEAR IT

#jes talks #jes ask #linked universe #linkeduniverse

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meggannn · 1 year ago

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a brief analysis on hades npcs' favorite blood sibling

this is not a popularity contest. this is my attempt at analyzing if certain characters prefer a certain sibling based on the info we have now.

prefers mel:

artemis. she likes zag of course, but this is obvious.

this is sad and ofc horrendously unfair to zag, but as predicted, so far hades does speak to mel with more respect than he did zag for most of hades 1, as evidenced by him already calling her "daughter" not "girl." perhaps hades's relationship with zag has changed significantly post-game, and obviously the circumstances and baggage of zag's upbringing (which hades was responsible for) vs hades meeting mel for the first time as a capable young woman are very different, but. yeah.

this is a guess, but i'm gonna say hermes likes her more as well, although only just. he's eager to get her to olympus and they've just been in contact for longer as he's a friend to the silver sisters. however i do think that there's an argument to be made that zag prioritizes speed over mel, both in character and gameplay, so hermes might relate to that with zag more.

possibly charon. i might have put him in the "no preference" category, because i don't think mel being able to understand him better necessarily means he likes her more, but i do think that he might prefer mel juuuuuuust barely only because he offers her loyalty cards without her needing to beat his ass lmao. there is no shoplifting option for mel yet so if it is added, i might change my mind, but so far i don't think she'd be the type to do it anyway.

possibly aphrodite but if so, it's not by much imo. she definitely likes zag, but says to mel "you look like you can break some hearts even without my aid" which sounds like approval of mel's messy situationships lol. to me her nicknames "little godling" vs "gorgeous" kind of implies the slightest more fondness of mel but again, not by much.

prefers zag:

chaos. outwardly asked "where's your more fun brother :/" and explicitly once told mel to shut up lol. also because i think a being called primordial chaos is understandably more interested in a story of "snarky, rebellious kid runs away from home and shakes up family status quo while blasting his way through the underworld" rather than "perfectionist does what she's told/tries to set the world in order." obviously chaos still supports mel, but definitely finds zag more interesting. chaos had to specifically set up trials for mel to get entertainment out of her lol.

skelly. one of my theories as to what's going on with skelly is that he's cosplaying his living self just for shits and giggles because it's a war, but also like. it's skelly lol so who knows. i think his personality in 1 is more his "natural self" which so far we've only seen come out around zag.

cerberus. :/

no preference:

homer. i know homer describes them differently (zag as a lazy, responsibility-avoiding slob vs mel as a tragic duty-focused, orphan princess), but i think that's not because homer prefers mel, but because he's crafting his diction to the story being told. hades 1 is a story with a twist wherein he reveals a laid-back prince is actually just lonely and misses his mom (imo he describes zag much more sympathetically as time goes on), but hades 2 is a war story and mel has been raised as a soldier all her life, so his tone is just different with mel from the offset. it's not fun to make light of her because the stakes are higher.

demeter: the real answer is persephone, persephone is her favorite lol. imo she seems just glad to have alive grandkids.

poseidon and zeus? haven't seemed to notice a preference so far from either of them. they have a more pressing reason to support mel because war and all, but also artemis mentions they don't really believe she can do it, which makes sense, but it makes me wonder if their support with mel is a bit patronizing, or like "well what have we got to lose." they also don't seem particularly worried about zag missing of course but i think these two have so many nieces and nephews and relatives that any preference they have between mel or zag is miniscule.

theories on returning characters we haven't seen yet:

prefers zag: nyx (just due to her raising him... but a case can be made for mel due to the silver sisters/mel living in shadow/hecate's relationship with nyx), dionysus (party boys), achilles & patroclus (probably), sisyphus & orpheus (power of friendship), thanatos & meg (obvious), asterius (respect for their many battles)

prefers mel: athena (level-headed warrior women), ares (a witch assassin groomed specifically for war? "go ahead and torture my family, but i will still come back to kill you over and over again"? absolutely), eurydice (cooking gal pals), theseus (please god it'd be so funny)

no preference: idk dusa? and hopefully persephone. the kids need a parent who doesn't have a favorite. i do think she will always have a soft spot for zag because he found and brought her home, but also i'm sure persephone will also want to spend a lot of one-on-one time gardening with her daughter.

#hades 2 #hades 2 spoilers

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mask131 · 7 months ago

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Do you think Persephone ever cheated on Hades with Adonis or anyone else?

Hi! Sorry for how long this took to answer, I was quite busy and your question isn't an easy on to answer.

When it comes to asking such a thing, what I think is probably of no use or interest... I know some people love to make headcanons for mythologies, but of course at this point one can make up everything and anything and claim it's "true". When looking to answer a question about what a deity did or did not do, one must look at the texts.

And in the case of Persephone... In the versions of Adonis' legend in which she gets involved, it is made pretty clear she has something for him. A form of love and desire. Now, I know that some people used the vagueness and shortness of the expressions used in the old texts to push forward the idea that maybe Persephone had more motherly love and feelings for Adonis, given she raised him and refused to give him back to Aphrodite (a bit in a reversal of the Demeter-Persephone legend), which would put an interesting spin on the Aphrodite vs Persephone trial, opposing romantic love and motherly love and reflecting the two ways a woman could exist in relationship to a man in Ancient Greece (mother/family or lover/bride)... But it is more widely agreed and accepted, given the way it is framed, the context of it all and how it is clear a LOT of deities are lusting after Adonis, that Persephone fell in love with him in the romantic sense.

However if we agree that Persephone had a thing for Adonis (despite Adonis clearly preferring Aphrodite), it leads to one big, big question... What of Hades? In the texts in which Persephone fights for Aphrodite, even bringing it up for judgement to Zeus, Hades is nowhere to be seen, despite Persephone being his wife... One could read it as Hades not caring much for it all and allowing his wife to have a lover. Which is... debatable. It is doubtful in the sense of how the Ancient Greeks considered marriage, and yet it can also be likely given how weird weddings and romances are among the Greek gods. So did Persephone "cheat" on Hades with Adonis? Well it is left unclear and there's a big hole open for interpretation... Was Hades aware or not? Did anything happen or not? Did Adonis reciprocate Persephone's feelings? Hades' absence and Adonis favorizing Aphrodite leads to a LOT of possibilities...

If you have to ask me and if I had to make a theory (and that would be my only opinion here - though I do mention I am NOT an expert in the Adonis legend), I believe this apparition of Persephone as a singular goddess, as a sole queen of the Underworld with no Hades by her side, but also as a friend-turned-rival of Aphrodite, is due to the origins of Adonis.

Adonis is the (almost) direct Greek adaptation of the Mesopotamian myth of Adon/Tammuz/Dumuzid, a figure of a "dying-then-resurrected vegetation god" that has crossed various civilizations and mythologies, and is usually depicted as part of the tragic love story with a goddess... Inanna, Ishtar, Astarte, all names and identities of a same "divine character" or "goddess archetype" that led to the Greek Aphrodite. But where is Persephone in all that? Well it seems, or I can suggest, that Persephone in the myth of Adonis is actually also a transposition of a Mesopotamian goddess - more precisely Ereshkigal, the lady of the Underworld. Just like how Persephone is here unusually depicted as a "sole power" (traditionally Persephone is always paired with Hades somehow), Ereshkigal was the dominant queen of the Underworld often appearing alone (Nergal as her husband was apparently a late addition) ; but more importantly, just like how in the Greek myth we find an opposition between Aphrodite (love) and Persephone (death) fighting over vegetation (Adonis), Mesopotamian myths are underwoven with the rivalry and opposition between Inanna (Lady of Heaven, goddess of life) and Ereshkigal (Lady of the Underworld, keeper of the deceased). A rivalry between two "sisters" which is most famously illustrated by the tale of the "Descent of Inanna into the Underworld", win which Inanna challenges her sister's power (and fails miserably to conquer her realm)... but more interestingly, a tale which ends with Inanna sending her Adonis equivalent (Dumuzid) to his death/her sister, resulting in a cycle of him coming and going between the living and the dead...

Of course, I am not an expert on Persephone or Adonis, so I might be dead wrong, but given what I know about comparative mythology, the evolution of the goddesses figures, and some of the roots of the legend, this is my suggestion: that Persephone's role here is basically a distant heritage of the role of Ereshkigal in other mythologies. Now how would that fit with the Persephone we know from the Hades-ravishing tale? Or the one from the cults and worship? I can't really answer, but it is an interesting "hole" to explore in the narrative continuity of Greek mythology

#ask #persephone #adonis #greek mythology #i am really digressing here #and i am sure other people have either written books about it before or analyzed this way better than me #but if you ask here's my answer

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gemsofthegalaxy · 4 months ago

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ive made several posts about this subject before but im gonna make another one because i read a post and i agreed with parts of it lol

i absolutely get why people dislike retellings of The Rape of Persephone that make Demeter into a villain, I do too. but I think it's worthwhile to acknowledge why "Persephone wanted to stay in the Underworld with Hades and devised a way to do it" became such a prevalant.... myth.... about the myth, which was not actually mentioned

Although their meet-cute was not so cute, Persephone and Hades are one of the most functional couples in popular Greek Myth, and while the origin story is much more about Demeter and her grief, I suspect a lot of people latch not onto the whole story but onto Persephone and her nature-goth spring queen vibes. i know she was instantly my favourite Goddess when I was a teenager, whereas Demeter was only kind of on my radar. And, again, in the other stories that feature Hades and Persephone they are relatively unproblematic (lol) in comparison to other couples, for example, Hera and Zeus and the numerous infidelities and such, so they are well-liked for that reason too.

So, if Persephone and Hades are such a happy couple, we have to reconcile that with their origin being tragic and also not really about the two of them that much, moreso being about Demeter... which is I think why it was easy to run with the (historically false) idea that Persephone played a part in the scheme to have her stay intentionally. if they loved each other, why wouldn't she want to stay?

my thing is- you could have Persephone want to stay in Hades without Demeter being overbearing and a total helicopter mom the way others tend to depict her... yeah, she gets a little extreme in her grief, but it's not directed towards Persephone in the way it is in some of the retellings I've read. idk. i love Hades and Persephone but they are hard to "adapt", as it were, and I don't like people making Demeter into a monster but i understand why it can be hard to make sense of the different aspects of their relationship (esp if people are hearing it third hand rather than reading the Hymn to Demeter themselves)

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kindred-spirit-93 · 8 months ago

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Sup it's me Astron

The Leuce myth is quite niche and it frankly really annoys me. Its framed as quite tragic like every other sad doomed myth of a god who loses their lover i.e Apollo and Hyacinthus, Demeter and Iasion, Hermes and Crocus, Aphrodite and Adonis etc BUT IT DOESN'T WORK FOR HADES BECAUSE RHE DEAD ALL GO TO HIM BECAUSE HE IS THE GOD OF THE GOD DAMNED UNDERWORLD WHAT THE ACTUAL FU-

Which is why in my interpretation Leuce is a mortal nymph who chooses to drink from the river Lethe and rejoin the wild dance of life through reincarnation and in turn being lost to Hades who creates the white Poplar in her memory.

another underworld ask :D!! no im not biased *bonk* go away shush

less tragic star crossed lovers and more (emotionally) mature stories of romance and respect please and thank you. hades being my favourite I will spoil him. Ill also torture him but that don’t matter.

leuce being a mortal nymph is a wonderful concept and im running away with it hehe. perhaps he hears the lone voice of a prayer. not just any prayer, but one for him. he who is seldom mentioned much less worshipped. curious he follows till he reaches the lush gardens of the overworld. persephone foreshadowing if I may be so bold lol.

anyway yes soft romance and then a change of mind. And why not? mortals only live once and its within her every right to do as she pleases. it was only fair. he was no stranger to the stings of injustice.

its bittersweet. he hands her the chalice, a favourite of his, filled with the river lethe. he sees the memories and moments they shared leave her eyes. for a brief moment he considers partaking. he closes his eyes and tries to hold her image in his mind instead.

acceptance is hard. he knows it more than anyone, what with ruling over the dead, both mineral and corporeal. Its hard but it must be done. that is the cruelty of godhood. that they arent above the laws of life and love and loss. so he makes her memory immortal.

trees now line the banks of the river where she sipped her last. they stand tall and delicate where she stood.

and every so often his tears irrigate them.

a last reunion of lovers.

might draw this out so stay tuned :3

#possibly my favouritest ask to date #(ignore that i say this every time lol)#anyway tis my bedtime #i have to wake up early tomorrow :')#greek mythology #hades #leuce #underworld #astron

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persephoneism · 6 months ago

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I honestly just hate the misconception that Zeus assaulted Demeter. We honestly have no source for that, I'm pretty sure one source says that Zeus came to Demeters bed and that's it?

I'm not sure why this idea is so popular. Maybe it comes from people wanting yo make Demeter even MORE tragic by adding the assault which is just odd.

OR it's because people can't seem to differentiate regional cults who usually had their own beliefs, myths and genealogy. In the Orphic religion (if I remember correctly) Zeus takes the form of a snake and assaults his mother Rhea who gives birth to Persephone. Rhea essentially becomes Demeter and it isn't explained why. People usually ignore the context of regional cults with contradictory stories and try to stick them all together in an attempt to make a cohesive narrative (it never works)

Or maybe people just assume that all Zeus' relationships were not consensual in myth.

There are actual polytheists who even believe that Demeter and Zeus' relationship was non consensual that's how popular the idea is. Maybe my girl just had sex, besides Aphrodite she's the most sexually active of the "traditional" Olympian goddesses

Yes! That's a line from the Theogony; their affair is also brought up in The Iliad, where Zeus names Demeter as one of his favorite lovers. In other texts, both are mentioned as Persephone's parents, but without going into any details about their relationship.

I never got the impression he forced Demeter, and I can't really see how anyone could surmise that from the scarce sources we have on the subject. Also Greeks didn't really shy from describing coerced sexual encounters, even if the victim was a goddess. Women getting tricked, abducted, chased etc etc. We don't have anything of the sort with Demeter and Zeus and no, I do not count Orphism because, like you said, that was originally Rhea (plus I haven't really delved into Orphism enough to decipher why things happen as they do; I've just read some of the Hymns. But much of it seems to be symbolic and allegorical.)

Given how often Zeus is perceived as a villain in online spaces, and written as one in a good chunk of retellings (even those about myths that have nothing to do with him!) I actually do think people are unaware that many of his affairs were consensual. Like, Hera being forced to marry him is such a widespread idea, but that does not occur in any text I'm aware of. In The Iliad, Homer very much implies that they were lovers before they were wed, but you rarely see anyone bringing it up, despite the source for it being, well, Homer, and not some obscure author no one has ever heard of.

Alas, following a religion doesn't mean you've done your research 😞 Demeter is Cool to me because she's not a maiden goddess, but neither is she married; she's out there doing whatever she feels like doing, and nobody is controlling her, or condemning her for living her life.

#She just wasn't pressured into fitting a specific mold/archetype/what have you

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chthonicgodling · 1 year ago

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Why does Hades loathe Macaria so much? You would think that since Hades and Persephone are the ultimate couple and love each other very much he would love someone that came from that love and would be “the best of both of them? and that she looked like the person he loves most (Persephone) would be an added bonus. Was she even planned? Were they excited to become parents? From what you described of Hades as being a ruthless tyrant king it’s hard to believe he is capable of loving someone. How did he fall in love with Persephone? What attracted each of them to each other ? Or is it much closer to the Greek myth of the abduction of Persephone?

gasps…… okay okay. okay. tearing myself away (BRIEFLY) from clutching eLoki.,,,

..,,to redirect my spotlight to MACI AND FAMILY

seen here awwww cute. several years before disaster(s).

because— I wanna talk about Hades and Maci in depth, have I gotten thoroughly into this before here??? other than my quips and captions??? I dont THINK so, not all in one place?!!! So first, a note -

Elysium!Hades & Seph DO love each other very much; they’re a wonderful couple who are wholly devoted to each other, kind and compassionate to their respective needs, are inseparable (except for when they’re physically separated via ancient accordance rip) and are each other’s best friends!

…they also are terrible parents and should never have had children. JOIN ME ON A WALK THROUGH MACI’S CHILDHOOD, SUPER LONG AND IN DEPTH AND BEHIND THE CUT, a long overdue “reveal” conversation about the slow disintegration of Maci and Hades’ relationship long before the elysiumverse canon events “began” and so a very deep dive into part of Maci’s pre-canon backstory! I actually have a lot of this written out.. somewhere ;) in progress and some of this comes from that wip so!!! One day if you see repeats… shh

This is so, so, so, so long. buckle up

[cw for: every type of abuse basically, wrt of course Thanatos has to be mentioned in here - also a brief mention of Zeus’ assault on Seph when Meli was born. Proceed with general caution this whole thing is overall a tragic and upsetting MESS. ]

the very beginning of Hades and Seph getting together first of all, is pretty much in line with the original myth, though Elysium has always been a story about Maci and so I fully don’t know ~or care anymore~ about all the intricate ins and outs of their details (a lot has been retconned and replaced with…. Blank space lmao ,, It’s not relevant in any way Maci’s parents are such background characters to canon current Elysium soooo-)

here are the details that I know DO exist (and based on my personal staples of Hades/Persephone stories lmao)

….warning this is not a safe space for Demeter apologists

• -Hades and Seph first met each other by happenstance at a gathering on Olympus that Hades was required to attend, the two most sarcastic gods in the crowd of course ended up gravitating towards each other and exchanging some friendly cynical banter before Demeter noticed who her daughter was talking to and dragged her promptly away.

• -Hades was - to his mortification and distress - immediately in love with her. Seph, immediately aware of this and quite tickled by it, was ABSOLUTELY flirting and ABSOLUTELY into him too - but with no real expectation that anything would ever come of it??? Demeter kept her possessively and almost literally under lock and key so let’s be realistic here.

• -upon finding out the scoop about Seph (interrogating Hecate, an old Underworld friend who also had sporadic contact with Demeter enough to gossip💞) Hades was actually quite horrified that Demeter was - like I said - possessively almost literally keeping her under lock and key what the fuck someone should do something about that???? what the fuck????? he—

• …something something something idk whatever BUT the end result of all that outrage + selfish crushy feelings was that he very much DID still kidnap Seph to the Underworld and then just kinda. set her up with a whole room in the palace and gave her awkward space. The kidnapping thing being still canon in here is so crucial to me mainly bc I think it’s the funniest (initially awkwardly platonic) first date in the world

• -Seph was initially PISSED about all that specifically but. got over it fast and fell in love with him lmao something something something etc love story deets whatever whatever. meanwhile Demeter went absolutely ballistic in the mortal world; pomegranate seeds were *DELIBERATELY* ingested; Demeter continued to hold all of earth hostage, Zeus intervened to stop the mass frozen famine but Seph had eaten the food of the dead and couldn’t fully leave so HA — Demeter and Zeus bullied Seph and Hades into signing what the elysiumverse calls The Pomegranate Agreement, dictating Seph’s seasonal location a la mythology, forevermore.

like I said - ultimately - whatever whatever whatever none of that is really important to me anymore and I have no further details to provide. Important result is they’re together happily ever after and here we are. Onto Maci!

One hundred years after Seph and Hades had gotten together, Seph became fixated on the wild and crazy idea of having a baby and approached Hades about it… his response was basically - ugh what, why???

well, because she wanted one, why else? and also INDEED wouldn’t it be so lovely to create something from half of each of them?? wouldn’t it????? please please please please please?????? 🥺🥺🥺 Ultimately, as spring approached, Seph settled with “just take the season to think about it and🥺don’t just say yes because you want me to be happy, I want you to want them too🥺but… please please please🥺”

by the time she returned that autumn, of COURSE Hades said yes and OF COURSE he literally did only say it to appease her. Was Seph aware of this??? Y…yeah probably but mission accomplished it would be fine! HER parent was terrible and HIS parents were terrible so they knew exactly what NOT to do so parenting would be easy, and even with Hades’ clear reluctance “once the baby is here you’ll come around,” she said and. ooooookay fine…. Fineeeeeeee so baby Maci was conceived that very late winter.

(Seph’s pregnancy was mostly spent in the upper world, which was. horrible, and naturally Demeter was BIG MAD and DISGUSTED when she caught on)

Maci, as we know, was born the spitting image of Seph, and all the colors of the Elysian Fields, though with the quirky ability to burst into flame like Tartarus. Hades WAS quite enamored with his daughter when she was tiny. A temporary clause had been added to the Pomegranate Agreement at Hades’ demand, permitting Seph to remain full time in the Underworld with Maci for the first five years of Maci’s life - and then Maci would travel with Seph seasonally ever more.

And those first five years were great! The entire Underworld was obsessed with its first ever heiress and little Princess, and Maci was an absolutely adorable Velcro baby who by the age of five was a hyperactive and bubbly toddler quite accustomed to having everything she ever wanted, and having everyone wrapped around her finger at all time. Including Hades, who - though never AFFECTIONATE or openly emotional it’s just not the way he is - doted upon her in HIS way, showering her with gifts and to the kingdom’s shock PERMITTING her to climb around his throne and follow him all around anywhere he went. as a teeny child he was Maci’s hero 🥺🥺

When Maci was five, Demeter was quick to remind them that the agreement’s clause had ended and so Seph and Maci traveled for the first time together to the upper world, and for the next five years of Maci’s life she was subjected to a MUCH different vibe for half of the year. For six months in the upper world - She was miserable without her dad, missed her home kingdom, and also Demeter and her army of stuck up nymphs were OBNOXIOUS to her, trying constantly to get her to revoke the Underworld and her father lmao aughhhh???

But Maci reacted to this by starting a WAR in return - for six months of the year from ages 5 to 10, Maci, naturally short tempered anyway, smugly picked as many fights as she could, set everything on fire, and generally fought viciously with her obnoxious grandmother both behind Seph’s back and to her face

Meanwhile, the other half of every year was spent back HOME as a happy family, all moods improved with her parents reunited together, in luxury within her familiar palace and kingdom of adoring worshippers. Maci met kiddo!Hypnos & Thanatos when she was 6 and they were 11, and she also spent her time following them dutifully around!

So By the time Maci was 10, Seph petitioned Demeter to allow Maci to choose where SHE would rather spend her time - aaaand by the time Maci was 10, Demeter had utterly given up on ever getting to take her to Olympus and was SO eager to be rid of the little brat. she was beyond relieved when Maci obviously and emphatically decided to stay in the Underworld full time. Her friends were there, her palace was there, and everything was always perfect when she was together with both her parents in the fall-winter, so the choice was obvious.

THIS was the beginning of the end.

Please remember that through Maci’s entire life at this point, she had never gotten to meet the version of Hades that existed when Seph WASN’T there. Hades…. Hm. Okay I was perhaps being harsh when I’d called him a tyrant earlier lmao but.,, you see like.,,

Hades is not… nice. He’s temperamental and quick to anger, where do we think Maci got it from hello. He’s somber and moody and usually scowling-quiet and grim and has no sense of humor and very little patience or tolerance for nonsense. It’s Seph only, somehow, who awakened a lighter side of him, an actual SMILE in him, actual LOVE in him. It’s Seph only that that side comes out around. And with Maci….

Maci by the age of 10 was LOUD and HYPER and NEEDY and BUBBLY and yes just an innocent child who didn’t deserve anything I’m about to write about :( but was tolerable to Hades really with Seph’s consistent laidback patient demeanor there, as she balanced out Maci’s high maintenance hyperactivity. SURE Hades was fond of the parts of Maci that reminded him of his wife but - the older Maci got, the less like Seph she became. Without Seph there as well, Hades would quickly - IMMEDIATELY - realize that he was not only ill equipped to handle Maci, but also utterly uninterested in learning, reverting instead to his standard springtime shutdown.

And so, obliviously, Seph kissed her daughter goodbye for the first spring Maci would spend in the Underworld and then drifted right off, leaving Maci eager and excited to spend six months bonding with her dad but instead!! INSTEAD!! Instead of embracing his daughter to cope with Seph’s absence alongside him together, Hades proceeded to utterly blindside Maci by just….. completely withdrawing. Emotionally - and physically - icing her out entirely.

Like a switch had flipped - Daily, and for six months, TEN YEAR OLD Maci suddenly found herself mostly alone within the halls of their palace, and her rare interactions with her father were newly short and cold.

This was all made worse by the whiplash when Seph came back and everything reverted back to NORMAL!???? Afraid of bursting the bubble that had suddenly returned to her, Maci didn’t say anything at all to her mom about how the year had been and lied that everything had been perfectly fine. Six months later Seph left again and Hades withdrew AGAIN - leaving Maci frustrated once more, but no longer as shell-shocked for round two— she soon became ANGRY.

Reeling from this abandonment oh my god she was just a CHILD Maci turned to her friends for support and….. at this point is when the SECOND circumstance leading to the overall collapse of it all came into play. Because this of course meant that in the absence of Hades’ attention, Maci was turning to her best friend Thanatos for comfort.

this is a story about Maci and Hades so I’m not gonna go too much into the Thanatos specific branches (I can but that’s a story for a different time 🤪). For the sake of this narrative, what is important to remember is that Thanatos had NEVER had her best interests at heart and, by year two, began to *actively* feed into her anxieties and distress about Hades ignoring her. Maci was so angry this time around at her dad that she began to act out around him, and very quickly realized that… oh interesting Hades suddenly noticed her real quick when she was MISBEHAVING. well that changed EVERYTHING. plus —

Thanatos enthusiastically encouraged her to continue picking fights with her father instead of just talking to him. He was trying now deliberately to drive a wedge between them so that he could isolate Maci for his own purposes. Butttt Maci was oblivious to this manipulation and followed his advice and her own instincts.

A good father would have taken this as a wake up call, Maci’s sudden moody rage and attitude and fits of destruction - or at least a good father would have sat her down to talk about what was bothering her, maybe gotten the opportunity to start over with her. But instead, Hades REAL FUCKIN MATURE responded to his preteen daughter goading him on by FALLING FOR THE BAIT and just raging back at her??!?!!?!?

because!!! Hades was temperamental to begin with and was growing more irritated with Maci's behavior... and uh, personality, and presence, day by day. By the time Maci was 11 years old SHE had wholly decided that the best and only way to interact with her father was by provoking him into yelling at her - Thanatos whispering in her ear the whole time that she was right and Hades hated her.

Back then at this point I don’t think Hades HATED her, I think he just…. Had no idea what to do with her!?? Was alarmed and put off by her???? Then made the terrible decision to not get to the bottom of it all, but instead was like “oh the little brat is picking fights WELL I’LL SHOW HER A FIGHT” this is a terrible way to “parent” I literally don’t think Hades ever considered that Maci was a CHILD when reflecting on her behavior

This WENT ON for YEARS and every time Seph came back the two of them - didn’t want to upset her and just, mutually and silently, agreed to pretend like nothing was wrong. though still Maci became a little louder, cockier, meaner, smugly knowing that Hades would never engage while his wife was home. Eventually each springtime as Maci grew into a Troubled Teen, she was making it a point to be as difficult as possible when interacting with her father while Hades just bickered back and things between them got worse and worse.

By the time she was 14, she could barely stand to be in the same room as Hades. the palace shared by just the two of them sat with uncomfortably tense silence, only ever broken by screaming arguments that ended in Hades throwing her out of the palace, or Maci storming out on her own, either way ending up back with Thanatos and Hypnos again. She’d slink back days later even moodier and repeat it all. This had all gotten so fucking bad that by the next year, when she was 15, the tension between them was too much to hide from Seph for the first ever time in the fall.

Seph uhhhhh. uhhhhhhhhhhh. well. F…. felt Maci’s outrageous attitude was blatant even to her, since in Seph’s eyes, Hades could do no wrong, despite clearly being in the wrong. HOWEVER she was still totally horrified to see this shattered relationship out of nowhere (“nowhere”). She pushed Hades to build Maci her Elysium palace (!!) as a peace offering and a 16th birthday present, which he.,, reluctantly did. But then Maci, wThanatos in her ear AGAIN, rejected it obnoxiously and furiously, - this was a last straw for Hades, spurring their worst and biggest fight to date by that point. Seph sOMEHOW MADE THE DECISION TO STAY NEUTRAL BETWEEN THEM - Maci, mentally, began to crack in the worst way. After like seven straight years of this there was something inside her beginning to claw in desperation with a frantic, anxious need to be loved, and seen by someone, anyone, rising in desperation. In the background of all this with Hades, Thanatos had been flaunting an endless string of girlfriends in her face which didn’t help anything either and Maci both felt like she was completely alone and TERRIFIED to BE alone??

all of this was the perfect storm for what happened next - much of this I think might be common knowledge here idk - in which Maci had a manic breakdown at the age of 17 that spurred her to insanely prostitute herself to literally anyone who’d have her in the Underworld, though instead first being swept straight into the arms of Thanatos, where well. I know we all know this part of the story. Now that Thanatos had successfully separated Maci from her family, his pretenses dropped, and the next four ish years or so consisted of their horrible terrible relationship - again the Thanatos branch is a whole different post, so back to Hades.

For four years, Hades did not bother to notice what was happening to Maci. oh she was quieter now and never around? good thank god 😒 Thanatos was not subtle about it - she was BLEEDING half the time for gods’ sake - Hades was so irritated by her presence by this time that he just. Didn’t pay it any mind. By this point Hades had started to actively dislike Maci, finding her obnoxious and abrasive and telling her so with no regards to the fact that he was the one who’d inadvertently shaped her to be this way. Thanatos once again smugly twisted the knife, pointing out to Maci how little Hades cared and how unlikely it was he would ever notice what was happening to her. There was no evidence to support the contrary so like yeah, clearly Hades didn’t give a shit! by this point though Thanatos was pretty spot on :(

in fact NEITHER of Maci’s parents fucking noticed anything was wrong with her personal life oh my god. The gravity of the nightmare Maci was living in sank in whenever she was alone with her thoughts, so she did everything she could to avoid ever being alone and distracted herself by seducing anyone across the Underworld, and soon she was spending all of her time in random beds or with Thanatos and was rarely at her home palace - and who the fuck knows if her parents even noticed that she was a touch more withdrawn, a touch angrier, a touch cagier or whether they had heard the rumors about her activities cause neither of them ever addressed her about it!!

eventually it all came to a head when Thanatos tried to very credibly actually kill Maci, the shock of which jarred her enough to (trigger an entire physical brawl between them, but while that was happening) send Hypnos for help, and with Seph arriving to witness this horrific scene first hand at long last she and Hades found out the crimes that Thanatos had committed against their own daughter.

Thanatos was brought to “court” made up of the King and Queen, Maci to tell her side of the story, Hypnos to tell his, and Nyx herself, Elder Primordial Titan Goddess of the Underworld and Thanatos/Hypnos’ mother. As Maci went through describing the past many years - her own activities through the underworld and her abuse at the hands of thanatos Seph was utterly horrified— and Hades though initially somehow SKEPTICAL, as this conference went on there was absolutely no denying the injuries that they could all see, nor the fact that Seph could vouch for what she had personally seen just that afternoon, and since by this point Thanatos had dropped his demeanor of charm there was quickly no denying that this was all the awful truth. Hades settled into anger over the general notion that anyone would betray the royal family in such a way, (less over Maci specifically being harmed, but his daughter was his property - yeesh ugh - no matter how grating he found her to be, so how dare he), bbbbbut his demeanor soon seemed more troubled in a different way the more this talk went on. Finally when it was over and all eyes turned to the King for his verdict, he unexpectedly sent everyone away except Maci, and the two of them had a final confrontation one on one.

Aaaaand here is where Hades solemnly explained to Maci that since Thanatos was a Death God, one of only two in eternity’s existence, there was nothing he could comfortably do to punish him, lest he risk the collapse of the functioning of the Underworld. At this point no one had any idea that removing Thanatos would generate a new death (Neo, 2,000 years in the future)!!

then!! as Maci listened in horror, unable to believe what she was hearing!! Hades turned on her.

demanding to know how could she choose to get involved with this situation, knowing Thanatos was essentially untouchable? What exactly did she expect him to do to fix this now? Hades turned vicious, falling back into their pattern of relationship - had she done this on purpose to make a scene and be the center of attention again, wasn’t that just oh so typical of her? And for that matter how dare she prostitute herself across the Underworld, making a fool out of the King? He spat that he had always assumed she could take care of herself, but now it was clear that she was not capable of it, and again, what did she possibly expect him to do now that she had ruined her own life, and allowed Thanatos to take advantage of her stupidity?

For once, Maci did not respond to Hades’ provocation with matching vitriol. Instead, sensing that his mind was not yet completely made up, with another piece of her shattering inside, she’d tried to plead to Hades' sensibilities as her father and not just the King, begging him not to do this to her. But the longer Hades went on without responding, the more Maci's temper began to boil, rising in sheer desperation even while tears welled in her eyes until finally she snapped at him that it was some move to send everyone away first, lest Persephone find out what a heartless fucking monster he was - and ohhhhh the second the words were out of her mouth, Hades' gaze turned ice cold and Maci immediately knew he WAS petty enough for her to have sealed her own fate. He reconvened the group. Maci started to cry.

to the shock of everyone gathered including Thanatos himself, Hades formally announced that Thanatos would be free to go.

Ignoring Maci sobbing next to him, Hades issued a proclamation to serve as a restraining order, barring Thanatos from interacting with her ever again. This would serve as Thanatos’ singular punishment (one that he barely obeyed, mind you). Then, ignoring the furious disbelief of Persephone on his other side, Hades went on to issue a further proclamation – citing Maci’s clear inability to responsibly handle herself, effective immediately until further notice the Underworld’s population as a whole would be ordered to embargo her, and in fact anyone caught interacting with her would be personally imprisoned. As Maci wailed and screamed and pleaded to deaf ears; as Seph sat disgusted and outraged at her husband but unwilling to override him; as Thanatos bowed to the King, recollecting himself at once into his simpering, smirking demeanor; Hades offered no apologies, and he exited without looking back aaaND BELIEVE IT OR NOT THIS IS STILL NOT THE END SHOULD I KEEP GOING!! OKAY I WILL!

Quite obviously this is something that Maci has never forgiven Hades for, and something that Hades has never regretted not at all, he would do the same thing again if he had to. Hades’ priorities are his kingdom - his wife. The end. Sorry Maci. Necessary sacrifices sometimes must be made, and why risk the kingdom to appease the ungrateful brat he’d spawned against his better judgement, the ungrateful brat who took pleasure in deliberately pushing all of his buttons??

Still - STILL!!! This wasn’t quite the last straw!! it did all get a little worse— at the risk of going on and on and on and on and on for a million years I’ll summarize, or try to. Right afterwards.,,, Due to the way Hades had chosen to handle the situation, he and Seph were now fighting - as oblivious and aloof as she could be, Seph did love Maci and felt that Hades had utterly failed her— so they fought, and when news of this conflict reached Olympus it was then that Zeus took advantage of the space between them to trick and assault Seph, conceiving Melinoe. This did cause the immediate end of Hades and Seph’s argument. Now with this new wretched child that Zeus had left for them, Hades took on sole “childcare” duties for baby Melinoe and pushed Maci to assist him, all during this embargo period he’d forced her into. Fearing that Maci and Melinoe could reunite against him in their shared mistreatment, Hades pivoted to lovebomb an utterly shattered and fully isolated Maci, manipulating her onto “his side” so that they could mistreat baby Melinoe together (yes! This is INSANE!)— until accidentally her evil side took over, creating OrigiMel. When Hades IMMEDIATELY turned on Maci and tried to blame her completely for Melinoe’s rise in power, Maci realized she’d been played for a fool by her father. (With eight years having passed, even while secluded within the palace, Maci had regained the ability to put on a show of bold confidence, and she had fucking had enough, so threatening to expose the fact that Hades was the monster who had made OrigiMel, Maci demanded he lift the embargo that still stood and let her do as she pleased. Annoyed at how all of this had gone on, Hades agreed.)

For the majority of Maci’s life following, Hades’ relationship with her continued to be tense and strained and bitter despite the two of them tersely cohabitating in the big palace but the absolute absolute absolute last straw for Maci took place 2,000 years later when Tory came into the picture.

Now with entering the canon Elysium’verse - YES ALL OF THAT IS PRE-CANON STUFF - once again the Tory thread is a whole nother novel cause their relationship story was an everlasting series of horrors but the final horror preceding their marriage was Hades, finding out at last that his horrible, embarassing, disappointing scourge of a goddess he was forced to call daughter had the audacity to DATE A MORTAL?!?!?! Chthonic gods don’t DO things like that, the Underworld isn’t OLYMPUS. the most taboo thing she could have ever done - How DARE SHE.

Hades tried to kill Tory.

Not like, threatened to have him killed, either - I mean in the sense of, “literally was strangling him to death over a cliff until Maci showed up and physically saved his life, and then Hades SHOVED THEM BOTH OFF THAT CLIFF AND TORY QUITE LITERALLY WOULD HAVE DIED IF SEPH HADNT SHOWN UP ON MACI’S SIDE ONE SINGLE BRIEF TIME, TO CATCH THEM BOTH”

….so…..

i ……… wonder why Maci and Hades don’t get along.

This was the end of their relationship ever again, obviously. Immediately afterwards Maci married Tory and she has not even spoken to her father in literal years, one of the last ever times being when Neo was born, a courtesy introduction and only because Hades was viciously and petulantly spreading rumors that Neo was probably not even Tory’s baby anyway (HELLO?????? WHO DOES THIS WTF?). Hades has not met any of Maci’s other children, to this date. Maci doesn’t miss him and never thinks about him, genuinely— though she’s never REALLY dealt with dissecting her childhood so maybe that’s a crisis for later….. one day.

Seph and Maci still have a relationship, though Seph remains always cheerfully distant and Maci hasn’t ever thought about processing any latent mommy issues to be affected by that not when Hades exists fgkfkff. Seph is starry eyed and 🤪fucking delusional🤪 and her greatest wish is for her husband and her daughter to make amends (HELLOOOOOOO WHAT THE FUCK) . Maci loves her mom she does and Seph loves her and her grandkids! But Maci knows in her heart of hearts that if asked to choose between her and Hades, Seph would choose Hades every time. The literal only time EVER she blatantly took Maci’s side was that one time ^ up there that Tory almost died.

And so….. here we are. 🤗 at the end!

I hope this novel length essay answers your questions! and I’m sorry I have limited info about Elysium!Hades/Seph theyre!! just not a focus for me lmao!! This is the Maci show and she is absolutely a product of her tragically awful upbringing - but those two deities responsible for her awful upbringing are merely that, avenues to explore Maci only.

………..BUT at least Hades didn’t murder his grandchildren so Odin still sweeps. NEXT!

#oc talk #Macaria tag #LONG POST #ASK TO TAG #OHHHHHH MY GOD OH MY GOD OH MY GOD THISIS SOOO MUCH—#abuse tw /#Elysium essays

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