#she has moments where she acts like Ladybug and Ladybug has moments she acts like Marinette

[ilikekidsshows]

These are really good additions. For all Marinette complains about how her Ladybug/Guardian responsibilities cut into her time as Marinette, she sure isn't making any moves towards making it so that a Ladybug wouldn't be needed. All her efforts go into stopping the Akuma of the day or some other pointless project that won't actually bring her any closer to catching Hawk Moth. She'll jump at the chance to let Tikki replace her as Ladybug, but she won't make having a Ladybug unnecessary or find a permanent replacement herself. Basically, Marinette wants to stop being a Ladybug, but only when doing so would require her to do nothing.

This makes it seem like the only reason Marinette hasn't already quit is that her motivation to quit is even weaker than her motivation to be a hero. Although, Marinette has had this tendency where she complains about things she could change but then makes no effort to change for a long time in the show. She didn't like Fu sidelining Cat Noir but only made the weakest attempts possible to persuade Fu to talk to him after Cat Noir brought the situation up. Even after Fu stops telling her to keep Cat Noir in the dark about everything, when she's crying about how hard it is to be alone for the couple of weeks after Fu lost his memories, she still won't just talk to Cat Noir. Her telling Alya was an accident, done in the midst of another emotional breakdown. Marinette always had the option to reach out to others and, even when the outside pressure to not do so was removed, she still wouldn't do it by choice.

Marinette complains about things she has the power to change, but then does nothing to change them. This has been going on since even before the retool, and the post-retool Marinette views herself as being completely incapable of changing her circumstances even when she's the one with all the authority and power. Even when she knows how she could change things, she won't do it, because Astruc confirmed in the finale commentary that Marinette understood from Félix's message at least the part about Gabriel being Hawk Moth, and then she acted like she didn't know so that the finale could have a standalone "realization" moment (because they're still writing Miraculous as an episodic show).

However, that just means that, even after she found out the truth, she had no intention of acting on the knowledge that Gabriel was Hawk Moth until he jumped her when she was breaking in to find out information about Adrien. Marinette was going to let Gabriel keep being Hawk Moth at least for the time being, because stopping him would have been too much effort, I guess. Even if you go with the interpretation that Marinette didn't fully understand Félix's message, Astruc confirmed that she at least suspected Gabriel before she went into the mansion, and yet she didn't do anything with her suspicions because that would have required her to put effort and thinking into her heroics instead of just reacting to what was going on directly in front of her.

Basically, Marinette will rarely do anything more than solve an immediate situation. She would rather keep having easy-to-win Akuma fights that cut into her private life that she'll then constantly complain about than make a proper plan to track down and stop the source of the Akumas. Because of this laziness, she was completely unprepared to do anything to actually stop him when Hawk Moth decided they'd have their final confrontation now. All the power, allies and knowledge at her disposal went to waste and she fumbled her way into the world getting destroyed.

Like, when the protagonist has this much knowledge, authority and power and goes this far in not taking advantage of it, all the while complaining about rough she has it, you really gotta start wondering at what point her problems start being self-caused. Sure, Gabriel is responsible for his own actions, but 'Origins' had this quote be an inspiration to Marinette: "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil, is that good people do nothing!" and in the finale, she proves it correct in the worst possible way. Marinette, indeed, did nothing, and Gabriel triumphed. The writers can claim that "Gabriel laid down his arms so Marinette won" all they like, but that symbolic victory is nothing against Gabriel's literal victory of gaining ultimate reality-bending power and getting to reshape the world however he wishes. Once again, the Miraculous writers had something happen that's the exact opposite of what they meant to represent.

I've seen people said Adrien doesn't have motivation to be a hero but Marinette does, which is weird because I feel like it's Marinette who doesn't have a motivation to be hero beyond "people listen to Ladybug". Her lack of motivation is what confused me because as a protagonist, she's inevitably become a role model for the young audience and I find nothing about her is likeable, even more so after she become a guardian. It's as if being a guardian inflate her ego and she forgot that everyone else is a human with feelings, not just a pawn or a doll for her to play and ordered around.

Recently I found out a website that contain the concept plot and it confused me more because I feel like concept Marinette is a more grounded character than she is in the show.

Marinette's goal isn't just to be Adrien/Felix's girlfriend but she also need to collect the kwamis that she accidentally releases and she become a guardian not because of luck or favoritism like how it is in the show, it's because her grandfather is the guardian. Adrien/Felix doesn't even become Chat Noir because he's chosen by the guardian, it's Plagg who chose him. It's actually much better than the whole "I choose you but also I'm not going to do anything with you" that Fu pulls in the show.

i don't understand why the higher up/the sponsor reject this plot because I think this much better than whatever we have now. If they have a problem with Chat Noir being an anti-hero, then why do they accept Marinette being written like one while also hailing her as a hero?

---

“Adrien isn't motivated to be a hero” he actually likes being a hero, unlike our role model protagonist, who’d rather do anything than be Ladybug even when she's being lauded for her heroic deeds. Is this based on Adrien trying to quit when Fu or Marinette is making his job needlessly more difficult to do? Because, like, that's the only thing that he seems to dislike about being a hero, which, like, makes Marinette an even worse hero. She’s so bad at her job, she makes otherwise eager heroes lose their motivation.

I’m gonna be very honest here; Marinette becoming Ladybug because she accidentally released a bunch of magical creatures and Adrien/Félix being more of an anti-hero rival than a full-on ally would have been copied straight from Cardcaptor Sakura’s starting setup. Like, I’m not surprised that even the rejected ideas for Miraculous are copied from other properties, but it just proves that regardless of any other variables, Astruc’s creation was always going to be highly derivative. Regardless, I do feel that Fu being her grandfather instead of a stranger would have gone a long way in justifying Marinette’s special treatment both in-universe and to the audience, but that’s probably why it was rejected.

Like, we can mock the fact that Marinette isn’t actually within spitting distance of being a “normal girl with a normal life” all we like, but that doesn’t change the fact that, from a purely on-paper angle, she is pretty average. She’s a middle-schooler with pretty average hobbies who deals with normal teen problems like bullies and a crush on a boy she doesn’t know how to deal with. There’s a reason it’s the opening line for the show’s opening. It's marketable. A special chosen one from the start wouldn’t have been as marketable in the same way. Especially when we take into account how hypersensitive Astruc is to Marinette being less liked than he’d want. He’d do whatever he can think of to make sure Marinette isn’t immediately judged a “Mary Sue”.

The thing with executives is that they don't watch the shows they fund. They read the pitch, synopses, and maybe the scripts if they can find the time. And even then, they might not want to put in the money to get a script revised even if they paid enough attention to tell it was dogshit. They wouldn't be interested as long as the different Miraculous bedsheets and shampoos keep selling and as long as the show isn’t too gay to sell to other countries. Like, the show bible that Gloob leaked? The one full of inaccuracies because it was outdated? That was what the executives were most likely given when the retool went into development. In addition, corporate oversight on the show has actually decreased the longer it’s gone on, because the show’s proven itself to be a success. I’m pretty sure the higher-ups were not asked: “hey, is it okay if we make Marinette an entitled jerk who gets validated at every turn while she starts treating people worse and worse?” I’m pretty sure no one okayed Marinette’s “villain arc”, it was just allowed to pass because it didn’t make the show less marketable.

That’s the thing with any property that becomes “too big to fail”. Less oversight means less quality control. It’s like one anonymous Gamefreak employee said about making Pokémon games: “It’ll sell anyway, so it doesn’t matter if it’s bad.”

[wolflover2426]

Just a thought but what would a Cat Walker but it’s Ladybug act or what facet of Marinette’s character will center on that?

I feel like Marinette has a healthy balance of herself as Ladybug and vice versa so I’m wondering just what facet of her character would bring life to create a Cat Walker version of a Ladybug hero.

[aakeysmash]

prompt:

reader getting injured because she slipped in the shower, sukuna has to help her get to the hospital, where reader gets some pain meds making her kinda high. she confesses to him while being high

content: fluff, crack. reader is in the hospital and blood is named but there’s no gore. yuuji and sukuna are siblings. i love sukuna and i need him in my life so bad… someone PLS be my sukuna

“So, just to be sure: one margherita for me and one with sausage for you?” Asks you Yuuji while putting on his shoes.

“Yup,” you answer, popping the p. “Can I just have a quick shower while you’re gone?”

“Uhhh, sure, let me go ask Sukuna,” your friend tells you smiling and rushing up the stairs of his home.

You and Yuuji have been best friends since forever. You remember the first time you both cried your eyes out at the park in kindergarten because a lizard had just eaten the ladybug you had been watching for half an hour. Since that moment you’ve been attached at the hip, your homework filled afternoons in high school turning to pizza nights when both of your work schedules allowed you to now.

“Big bro said sure,” comes Yuuji’s voice from the end of the staircase.

“I did in fact not say that,” growls Sukuna from behind him. Sukuna is the same age as you and Yuuji, but he always seemed older. Sometimes wiser, but sure as hell more annoying than his brother. Hotter, too, but that’s a topic for another time.

“I didn’t ask you to join me, big boy,” you say sarcastically, fake smiling. He crosses his arms, leveling you with a bored look.

“Yuu, if you aren’t fast enough you’re not going to find her corpse when you get back,” he tells his brother, still staring you up and down. Yuuji sighs, tired, then opens the front door.

“Make sure to not kill each other. I have a shift after this, stop bickering. You two act like siblings more than I do with you, Sukuna,” he reprimands you both. You and his brother roll your eyes at the same time, then you push him out, closing the door in his face. You turn around and find yourself face to face with Sukuna's menacing grin.

“You have 5 minutes before I come knock at the bathroom door with a kitchen knife, doll.”

You’re scrubbing yourself clean with a random pine body wash you found in the shower when the playlist you put before entering the stall stops. You’re annoyed, because now you’re forced to listen to Sukuna’s ugly songs from the bathroom wall (that he’s blasting just to annoy you), so you try to reach your phone. You’re on your tippy toes, not wanting to get out completely, when you trip and fall since you didn’t wash the soap away from your body. You bump your head on the sink in front of the shower, hard, and you muffle a whine. You close your eyes as hard as you can and open the shower head with the room spinning inside your skull.

“Don’t open your eyes, don’t open your eyes or you’ll fall… fuck, it hurts so bad,” you tell yourself while you speed run the end of the shower and blindly put your shirt over your head. It’s not the first time you've bumped your head on something, you were a crazy kid, so you’ve learned to open your eyes only when you physically can’t function anymore or you'll start seeing stars immediately. You barely get to put your pants on when you notice your forehead feels wet, and you didn't even wash your hair. As you get out of the bathroom wobbling you touch your head. When you open your eyes, you see blood on your hand. The room spins. You barely have time to look up and watch Sukuna coming out of his bedroom frowning before seeing black dots in your vision.

You try opening your eyes, but they feel so heavy. Your body feels rather stiff. What's this smell?

"Oh, she's waking up," a female voice softly says from somewhere next to your right.

"Thank you, miss, I got it from here," a rough voice responds.

"Make sure she drinks a lot, and keep a couple of painkillers near you. The scans show she doesn't have any internal damage, but she hit her head pretty hard. She's going to have a big bruise for a couple of days," the female voice continues. You hear the man making a sound of affirmation.

There’s a brief pause. "Your wife is very lucky. It's not every day that a man takes a woman up four flights of stairs by simple arm strength," the woman concludes sweetly, getting out of the room after he responds with a grunt and closing the door behind her.

"Your ass is lucky I lied or they wouldn’t have let me in, dumbass. Open your eyes, I know you're awake," the voice you now recognise as Sukuna says, getting closer. You try opening your eyes, managing to focus your gaze on him. Everything feels so fluffy, apart from your throat. You cough, and you think you see him rolling his eyes before getting you a glass of water and sitting beside you on a chair. You gulp it down, still feeling fuzzy, then you blink a couple of times.

You gape at him. He's cute. “You look funny,” you say, poking his cheek. He’s so squishy. Like a little mochi. A little mochi filled with strawberries. Strawberries and cream. He slaps your finger away, and you put on a hurt expression. He huffs.

“Why am I here?” You ask. The more you look at him, the more heads he seems to have.

“You fell in the bathroom,” he says, straightening up from the chair and covering your right leg with the duvet the hospital gave you. You raise an eyebrow at his gesture, and he just rolls his eyes again. “Don’t want you to also catch a cold. Yuuji would kill my ass.” You just hum.

“I caught ya when you already fainted. Yuuji came back home and panicked, but he couldn’t back out from work, so I was stuck with your ass. Took ya here but the elevator broke down. And I ate your pizza, by the way. All this is gonna cost ya 200 dollars, cash,” he lists, sprawling back onto his chair, deadpan.

Silence engulfs the both of you, and you don’t know what to say. You heard what the nurse said and you are searching for a way to bring it up, but the words in your mind are all scrambled. It’s probably the morphine that you realise they gave you, IV still attached to your left arm. You open your mouth to say something along the lines of “I’d like to thank your gym membership for this,” but instead the words that leave your mouth are-

“I’d like you to be my husband.”

His eyes snap to your widening ones. “Wait that wasn’t what-“

“Huh?” He just replies, dumbfounded. You panic, waving your hands in the air between you two.

“No, what I meant was- like- thank you for getting me up here- can you stop looking at me with your weird 16 eyes?- not that you aren’t attractive! You’re super hot! But that’s not- oh god,” you whimper, rubbing your face, noticing how you’re just making the situation worse. You prepare yourself for his snarky comeback, closing your eyes, but everything is silent.

Suddenly, you hear him snort. You crack your eyes open, touching the big cotton gauze they put on your forehead. You must be hearing things. It’s definitely the morphine, there’s no way Sukuna is actually laughing.

“Yes, I’m laughing, doll,” he says, chuckling. You widen your eyes.

“I said that out loud, didn’t I?” You cringe.

“Yeah, you kinda did,” he responds, smirking. You groan.

“Take me out to dinner first, damn,” he yawns. You jut your bottom lip out, frowning and giving him your middle finger. Then you register his words.

“You’d come? I mean, if I asked you out.”

“Well, if you’re paying,” he responds, shrugging. That’s still a yes, isn’t it?

He ruffles up his pink hair, black t-shirt straining across his bicep. You can’t contain the urge to poke the muscle.

“Stop touching me like I’m made of play dough, doll,” he sighs, slightly less annoyed than 5 minutes ago.

“Would you let me play with you if you were made of play dough?” you ask, words a little slurred, still poking his arm, and he flexes it. “Don’t show off,” you mumble.

“You’re even weirder when you’re drugged,” he grins. He kinda looks scary, though. If you didn’t know him, you’d piss yourself by looking at his sharp teeth.

“But would you or would you not?” You whine, dragging out the last word, letting your hand fall next to you. He misses the warmth of your hand, so instead, he just puts his on your thigh. To be warm, of course. The room is so cold. Yeah. Definitely because of the missing heat.

“Yeah doll, I would.”

[buggachat]

Honestly I think my take on the "Chat Noir was not there in the final battle" comes down to the fact that I kind of just don't think a satisfying final battle between Chat Noir and Monarch was actually possible.

I read a lot of fic, for example, and I've read the scenario play out a lot of times in a ton of ways and I've never been fully convinced of it tbh (and not because they weren't great fic!!). It seems just completely traumatic for Adrien in a way that the scenario inherently cannot properly focus on, because it's all happening in the middle of an action scene and Adrien is too busy being Mid-Battle to properly have a cathartic breakdown about it all. I mean, Chat Blanc already showed us what would happen if he did have a breakdown mid-battle (and why wouldn't he?). And though it'd be fun to have a big triumphant moment of him defeating his abusive father, Adrien simply isn't a character who would find that scenario triumphant, or cathartic, or anything other than viscerally traumatic.

Also, I agree that it's unfair that Chat Noir was not present— like it was unfairly tilted in Ladybug's favor— but I don't think it'd be fair if he was present, either. Because Marinette is, in fact, the main character. The main character whose character arc is primarily focused on her finding her footing as a hero and discovering all the responsibilities that come with that power (as opposed to Adrien, whose character arc is moreso about freedom and identity). And let's face it, in a fight between Ladybug and Chat Noir and Monarch, nobody would be focused on Ladybug at all. It's not about her. It's not her fight. She'd just be there as moral support and an extra set of hands, which really doesn't work for her character arc at all and is completely unfair to her!

Basically, it would just be Chat Noir temporarily acting as the main character and having the worst time of his life in the most un-cathartic battle for him possible left completely traumatized with Ladybug in the background awkwardly trying to comfort him after the fact? And then the season ends? And then the next season presumably goes back to Ladybug being the main character? After a time-skip to the new school year? It's just an ending that I feel like is a lot better in theory than actually on paper. And you can probably make an argument for ways that it could be made to work, where it would enhance Ladybug's story in a meaningful way where she still feels like the main character, and would somehow be triumphant for Chat Noir despite it probably being the worst moment of his life, and somehow not make the rest of the series following feel like bonus content as opposed to a continuation of the story...... but, I dunno. I think it's a lot easier said than done.

The fact of the matter is, I've always been waaayyyy more interested in how the aftermath of Gabriel's defeat affects Adrien than the battle itself. Post-Hawkmoth defeat is one of my favorite types of fic for a reason, and it's because the aftermath can be so juicy, especially for Adrien as a character. I think whether or not Adrien is actually there in the battle itself has always been kind of irrelevant to me, because no matter how Gabriel is defeated, his defeat will have immense repercussions on Adrien's life going forward. And the way they did it, Marinette is now a part of it in a more active way, too. Which is good for her character!

( Also, if he was there to triumphantly defeat Gabriel, would that mean he would just.... watch his father die? of cataclysm? a-and.... nathalie would just.... die, too? so he'd have three dead parents after all that? who he watched all die (or, in emilie's case, saw her corpse)? or is this a scenario where MONARCH BEATS CHAT NOIR and still makes the wish? is that cathartic? for Adrien to lose to Gabriel? Frankly, I loved seeing Gimmi and The Wish, it's been teased for so long that I was expecting it, and I loved the fact that Nathalie got to live as her narrative reward for coming to her senses and trying to murder Gabriel with a crossbow. I like that we got to watch a full season of Gabriel painfully dying to a cataclysm— poetically inflicted on him by Adrien, but of Gabriel's own doing. I like that Nathalie has presumably adopted Adrien after having an arc of her trying to be a parent to him once she realized nobody else would, that's so much more interesting than any other alternative. I just don't see how all of these things, some of my favorite things that season 5 gave, can still all exist at once with Chat Noir present in the final battle in any way that's satisfying. )

[grilledcheese-savage]

Opposites Detract AU part 2

I left some things out but here’s a clearer picture of what the rest of the story would have been like.

Pls read the og post right here

https://www.tumblr.com/grilledcheese-savage/763805500110487552/new-au-idea-opposites-detract-i-came-up-with-this

For some reason it won’t let me link it normally

Ok so as you can see in the picture, Marinette is Multimouse… but is that all she is?

For the first “season” or less, she is a civilian. She is free to live her life normally without having to take any unnecessary risks. Until she runs into this old man (master fu) and helps him out. I always thought this would be during feast or a situation like that, where either he’s in turtle hero form and she acts as a shield for him, or helps him like the first episode as a civilian. Either way, Master fu remembers this. He tests her more than he did chat noir and la coccinelle because it turned out pretty poor last time. He has paranoia. But Marinette is a pure soul so he leads her to his shop and reveals the miraculous to her eventually, UNBEKNOWNST TO CHAT NOIR AND LA COCCINELLE. Because while he was hoping the next guardian would have been ladybug, he needed a person he could truely trust. And that turned out to be Marinette. She becomes the guardian for the same reasons in the original, it becomes to dangerous for him to continue and he loses his memory. But Marinette continues to work in his shop (a cover for guardian duties).

Lila and Adrien also “work” at his antique shop but neither of them know she’s the new guardian (yet) I’m not sure if they’d find out immediately after master fu has to quit, or Marinette keeps up the charade a little longer. I think it’s more fun to imagine her knowing more than she let on.

When she meets master fu at first and starts training under him, she doesn’t get to keep a miraculous. She works under a lot more conditions than the others do since her job keeping secrets is incredibly important and fu still struggles to trust her. Eventually she proves herself of course, but the pressure of being guardian is so much to handle.

Adrien was going to be a guardian at first since he gained more of Fu’s trust than Lila, but since he has the Kwami of destruction, just like that other guardian man that I can’t remember the name of, they all have some kind of bias against them. He couldn’t trust him not to take the miraculous of the ladybug and grant a wish, even if he kept that from him. He also just doesn’t get along with La coccinelle at all, so he couldn’t have someone with a bias be guardian (he’s hypocritical).

More about Adrien: As cat noir he doesn’t get to be his flirtatious persona he originally has, instead he takes on a more serious altruistic approach since he is pretty hated unanimously by the public. His persona becomes more of a lie, as he tries to undo all of the hatred that came from the destruction of Paris that first day. Think of goro akechi in persona 5; he learns to distain his constant visual presence, the fact on and off the job he is constantly being watched. There’s not a moment that either one of his selves is on tv. And because he’s being filmed there are quick moments the news capture of him being kind to the public and turning around with a resentful face on. He doesn’t totally get to enjoy his freedom as chat noir since the police always try to capture him. But they fail to, and there’s a still a small few of fans of theirs that defend them.

Basically he gets cancelled a lot. 😅

La coccinelle is allowed to pick a miraculous to help her ONE TIME by Master fu, and she picked Chloe Bougeious with the bee miraculous. Chloe accepted and caused a lot of mayhem. Which was fixed. But after that was when he met Marinette and started planning defense and strategy with her. So the next time they needed help, he sent Marinette as multimouse which pissed Lila off because it made her think master fu still didn’t believe she could handle it. When really it was a mix of both not trusting her, and the fact that Marinette was prepared for a lot longer then she was.

This makes lila have a one-sided beef with multimouse, even though she’s secretly her civilian crush Marinette. Love square? Ehh. What Lila doesn’t realize is behind the scenes Marinette doesn’t hold any ill-will for Coccinelle. In fact, she defends her to master fu and convinces him to give Lila more freedom more often. But of course, doesn’t know this. And the unspoken beef continues.

Now, for Kagami and Luka’s place in this story.

While Marinette is a civilian she meets Luka and they become friends very quickly. Same with Adrien and kagami. But at this point in time, Adrien doesn’t really have a crush on kagami, since the slippery slope of coincidences caused Adrien to have a crush on Marinette first. Kagami however seems to be the only one who sees this darkness brewing in Adrien (emo I know, but I digress) Kagami, does in fact, gain a crush on Adrien because she thinks he’s like her- lost in this world, without a lot of friends to help.

Luka and Marinette however, still get together but after Marinette becomes a guardian. They don’t last very long because of this, because her constant work between the bakery, the antique shop, guardianship etc. makes her late to everything they plan to do together. Luka ends things believing that Marinette only likes him as a friend and that’s why she puts work ahead of him everytime. This breaks Marinette’s heart, even though she understands, so she accidentally ends up saying in front of Adrien that she’s not dating anymore, and is focusing on her career. Marinette is oblivious to the fact that both lila and Adrien have a crush on her.

Marinette sees that Luka is responsible and puts his feelings aside for the greater good and chooses him to have the snake miraculous part time. When she is multimouse, she’s pretty awkward around him since things left off kind of sad, but since Superion doesn’t know that Marinette is multimouse, he just assumes she’s shy or doesn’t like him. This is obviously not true. In fact, Luka becomes the more “chat noir” type in this, teasing the group and very lightly flirting with her. BECAUSE IT WOULD BE FUNNY AND UNPREDICTABLE. I see him being very suave with his harp. Like every musician is lol.

Kagami and Adrien don’t work out either, because deep down, even if he is getting more resentful of being pushed around and molded into a person he doesn’t know, he still is naturally kind hearted and knows that his resentment won’t last….. hopefully. And Kagami only has that, and fencing in common with him, at least in this universe so they stay friends. Plus she meets Felix anyways.

Speaking of Felix. He.. generally stays the same? Here’s the difference, when he say them on the news on day he judged them. Then when he saw/ met more of chat noir, he started to believe that they were like him and saw the world the same way as he did and starts to commit similar atrocities in the show with the peacock miraculous in hopes that since they were the same, they’d leave him be.

Since chat noir is growing increasingly disdainful, he more or less does want to leave him alone, but the part of him that knows it’s his duty wins every time since he is , still, a little more responsible in this than the show.

Also a reminder, Adrien doesn’t start out like this, he’s still the show’s version at the beginning, he just changes with every situation they find themselves in. So when Felix eventually comes to meet him, he assumes Adrien is the same as always- a goody two shoes who does what he’s told. That couldn’t be further from the truth 😂

Adrien is similar to Felix but still mostly tries to act like his old self, since it’s easier and gets him places. But when Felix comes over and is cold, Adrien gets frustrated and his resentful, chat noir self comes to life. Felix was so stunned by the slip up that he just, shut up. And left. Very confused.

Anyways I have many different ways of imagining Felix seeing the more contemptuous Adrien. He becomes much more interested in him. He wants to learn more, because maybe he’s not alone.

Idk what do you guys think? Should Adrien be the guardian? What would Alya’s role be? Pls reblog more ideas and add on to the AU!

Thanks!

[woso-dreamzzz]

Secret II

Mapi Leon x Ingrid Engen x Child!Reader

Summary: You come to training

Ingrid will forever remember the look of shock on everyone's face when she walks into the locker room with you on her hip.

They all wear varying looks of shock on their faces as Ingrid waltzes in, refusing to act like anything is out of the ordinary.

Your head swivels around as you take in everyone looking at you before you grunt.

Ingrid knows that sound well as she places you on the floor, taking that god-awful ladybug toy out of her bag. You slam your hand on the button and it starts singing its jolly tune, the sound echoing around the otherwise silent locker room.

You clap your hands in amusement as Ingrid turns around to change.

"So you finally brought her then?" Frido teases and Ingrid rolls her eyes.

"I was convinced."

She looks meaningfully to where you've now been joined by Mapi on the floor. The Spaniard has no qualms about sitting with you, oohing awwing over your toy as you babble at her.

She nods along like you've imparted the truth of the world onto her and she presses the button on your ladybug when it stops again.

"Really?" She coos at you," That's so interesting! You're so smart!"

The rest of the locker room is completely silent until Jenni speaks.

"I think I speak for everyone when I say...What the hell?!"

"It's a baby," Mapi says before Ingrid can speak," Isn't she cute?" She lifts you up under your armpits. You sag in her arms like baby Simba as Mapi proudly presents you to the others. "She's so cool. She can push buttons all by herself!"

Frido laughs. "I think lots of babies can do that, Mapi. Ingrid's Skatt isn't special."

"Don't say that!" Mapi gasps," You can hurt her self-esteem!" She turns you around so she can look at you. "You're very smart! So, so smart! Pushing buttons and singing all by yourself!"

Ingrid's made peace with the fact that she's probably not getting you back this entire training session. She thinks the coaches have also made peace with the fact that there will be no training being done either.

This training session has been highjacked by you and Mapi. Even the more standoffish girls have been won over by you.

Frido isn't much help either, constantly bringing up things like she had known you for years and not the five months you had been alive.

"Show them the bumblebee outfit! Show them the bumblebee!" Frido cajoles as everyone sits in the shade together on the pitch. "Come on, Ingrid! She looks so cute as a bee!"

You're sat happily in Mapi's lap as Jana and Bruna coo over you. You're particularly interested in the fact that they have fingers, tugging and pulling on them before forcing them to touch the button on your ladybug.

"Bumblebee?" The words catch Mapi's attention who sits up fully as Ingrid goes through her camera roll.

"My mother sent it when she was still little."

She flips the phone around so everyone can see you wearing your special bumblebee sleep suit. You look completely peaceful in the picture and Ingrid scrolls along to show you dressed as a spider and an ant.

"This is the most recent one."

It's you sitting in front of your ladybug, dressed like a ladybug too. You've got your fingers in your mouth and you're staring at your toy with such concentration that it's kind of funny.

"She's adorable," Irene coos," My wife is pregnant. I know it is different but...the club...they are good with you needing to be with her?"

"They pay for her babysitter," Ingrid replies," They're perfectly happy with her. Isn't that right, skatt?"

You turn your head to look at her at the call of your nickname. You stare for a moment before grunting and going back to clapping along to your ladybug.

"She seems very smart. She knows her name," Marta continues.

"Ingrid's got her trained," Frido teases," She whistles and Skatt stops exactly what she's doing to listen. She likes a little dog."

Ingrid swats at her. "Stop calling my daughter a dog."

"Yeah, Frido," Mapi butts in," You're going to ruin her self-esteem."

"I don't think you'll let anyone do that. Is Ingrid getting her kid back or are you keeping her forever?"

Mapi shrugs. "I don't mind keeping this little cutie. She and Ingrid can move into my place. I'll take good care of you, skatt. Yes, I will."

Alexia rolls her eyes. "I think you need to prove you can take care of yourself first, Mapi."

"That's why Ingrid's moving in too, obviously. I can't separate this little beauty from her mama. That would make her sad!"

"Sure," Ingrid hears Leila mutter," That's the reason you want Ingrid to move in."

You whine a little as your ladybug stops singing and Ingrid instantly knows what that means.

"Give her here," She says," Someone needs a nap."

You're passed from Mapi to Ingrid and you conk out fast asleep on her chest almost as soon as you're settled there. Your soft puffs of breath tickle Ingrid's collarbone and she gently runs her fingers through your soft, downy hair.

"Oh!" Mapi says.

Her cheeks go a little red as she digs around in her bag.

"I know she likes ladybugs and I'm sorry if this oversteps boundaries or anything but here. For Skatt."

Ingrid tucks the little ladybug plushie under your arms and you instantly curl into it.

"It's beautiful, Mapi," Ingrid says, pressing a soft kiss to Mapi's bright red cheek," Thank you for thinking of her."

[bigfatbreak]

In the Villain Tom AU, Marinette seems pretty close to her dad and Noroo. I'd have expected her to ask her dad for personal advice (secretly superhero problems) or his magic butterfly friend if he knows anything about the magic butterflies Ladybug and Chat Noir keep fighting; I can't imagine more than one or two of those conversations happening without someone figuring something out. Am I missing something, or is this the premise of season 1's finale?

the thing is, the moment Marinette gets Tikki and learns of like. Kwami. she figures everything out. its not like the OG series where they get the miraculous first and have a villain of the week thing going on - Adrien has to slowly track down who has the butterfly miraculous and who Hawkmoth was vanilla civilian style for 99% of the story.

The finale would be when Marinette gets the ladybug miraculous and figures out her father has been using Nooroo to perform acts of violence against those he's deemed as his enemies.

[pisoprano]

Thinking about the symmetry of Catwalker and Loveybug.

Yes, they’re both just a version of their civilian selves, but those versions have been pushed to extremes. For Catwalker, he’s the embodiment of perfection and doing what he’s told, but Adrien the civilian often pushes back against being controlled. For Loveybug, she the embodiment of daydreams and affection, but Marinette the civilian is often gets in her own way of fulfilling her romantic dreams.

But these two aren’t just mirroring their own civilian selves, they’re also mirroring their superhero partner. Like Ladybug, Catwalker is focused on the mission above all else and tries to be professional. Like Chat Noir, Loveybug wears her heart on her sleeve and indulges in grand romantic gestures at inappropriate moments.

And this new version of the heroes is simultaneously all their partner thinks they want, and yet not at all what they truly need. Catwalker can help her carry her burdens, but he can’t be the partner who knows Ladybug well enough to be her best friend. Loveybug can shower him with affection, but she can’t be the partner Chat Noir knows well enough to love him for the real him.

And even when you remove the partner they know from the equation and just have it be Catwalker and Loveybug, they still find themselves drawn to each other. Loveybug knows from prior experience that Catwalker is a total sweetheart and is exactly the sort of boy she’d drool over if she didn’t have Chat Noir and/or Adrien. Catwalker knows from prior experience that Loveybug is totally lovey-dovey and is exactly the sort of girl he’d want to have close to him if he didn’t have Ladybug and/or Marinette.

And both are internally screaming just being transformed like this. Catwalker is stressed over having to force himself to conform to a strict standard for Ladybug’s approval, but he thought that having this clean slate would let him be by her side after facing rejection. Loveybug is stressed that letting loose on her emotions so much will be lead to a mortifyingly embarrassing rejection, but she thought that having this clean slate would let her act on her feelings for once without having to worry about long term consequences.

And in our scenario where Catwalker and Loveybug have become partners, it’s only a matter of time before they both crack from pushing their identities to their limits (her from showing a boy more love than her comfort zone has ever allowed, him from restraining himself from reciprocating the love he desperately wants). And once those cracks finally show? Then they’ll be able to see—just a bit more fully—who their partner has been hiding under the mask all this time.

[miraculouslbcnreactions]

Last post you talked about your ideal version of canon, I was wondering could you share it with us? If not, that's ok

Oh man, I could go on about my dream version of canon for ages! I've talked about various aspects of it on here with stuff like my "sugar" posts on Nino and Alya, but the broad strokes are:

Serialized story where it's basically one large narrative told in chunks

A true teams setup where Adrien, Marinette, Alya, and Nino feel like this amazing, tight friend group who grows into a found family as they get older, giving platonic and romantic love more equal billing

No guardian order, just have it be a single-person role that gets passed on from person to person

Kagami and Luka in supporting roles that have nothing to do with being love interests

Sympathetic Gabriel who feels like a truly tragic figure, but who does NOT get redeemed

Emilie gets an actual character

No sentinonsense

Revised miracle box that is way smaller and that has strong lore

The Agreste's aquiring the miraculous is far more morally complex, makes sense, and was not done for explicitly selfish reasons

Reverse the love square right from the start and never have the crushes flip

I've talked about all of these things on here, but the one thing that I've only briefly touched on is my love of a reverse square setup. I am passionate about that one, so let's take a moment to talk about why since it's probably going to be the most interesting to read.

I don't hate the canon setup for the crushes, but also I don't think that they're the ideal crushes. When it comes to romance stories, you want to design your love interests around each other. You want them to feel special and like they bring something unique to the table. Canon doesn't really give us that. There's nothing all that special about Adrien that makes him feel like the person that Marinette would be drawn to above all others. Same goes for Chat Noir and Ladybug, but we'll get to them in a second.

What is Marinette's biggest struggle? Her role as Ladybug.

Who is her main support in that role for most of the show? Chat Noir.

Who is her main support on the civilian side even before the reveal? Alya.

So why is Marinette's crush on Adrien and not Chat Noir? I don't know. It's the lesser setup by far and that goes beyond just the logic elements of who it makes the most sense for her to fall in love with. A lot of Marinette's worst behavior actually feels justified in a reverse crush setup, allowing you to write her without major changes to her character.

For example, Marinette keeping a chest of gifts for Adrien is kind of pathetic. She's friends with Adrien and she gives her friends gifts all the time, why can't she give him gifts, too? Reverse the crushes and suddenly this behavior makes perfect sense. Marinette isn't storing up gifts because of overblown fears of rejection. She's storing up gifts for legitimate fears about how her partner will explain these random gifts, thereby risking his identity, meaning that she has a sold argument for waiting until the time is right (post reveal) to give them to him.

There's also the legitimate fear that confessing her love could ruin their dynamic and put Paris at risk. Keeping her feelings to herself is now an act of self-sacrifice and not just an act of nerves. Basically everything about Marinette's hesitance just makes so much more sense if it's on the hero side.

But what about Adrien? How does this fix him?

I love the idea of our male romantic lead falling for our female lead because she's bold and brave, but it honestly doesn't fit Adrien's character. He is surrounded by powerful, confrontational women. Nathalie, Chloe, Kagami, Amilie, Audrey, and Tomoe are all no-nonsense women who get what they want. This means that Ladybug doesn't bring something unique to his life. She fits the standard mold. Adrien falling in love with her after she talks down Hawkmoth doesn't feel like the right choice for his character because it doesn't feel like something he'd be wildly impressed by.

Meanwhile, Marinette is shown to be a generally wonderful friend. She cares about others and will do what she can to make them feel welcome and accepted. That's a much more unique thing for Adrien to experience. Think about the umbrella scenes and imagine if it was Marinette apologizing. Marinette owning that she treated him poorly and asking his forgiveness. How often do you think Adrien gets moments like that? Doesn't it make more sense for something like that to make his heart flutter?

We see Marinette doing things like making banners to celebrate her friends (Timebreaker) and making sure everyone feels included (Reflekta). Imagine her giving Adrien that kind of treatment because it's just who Marinette is. She shows up to his fencing matches to cheer him on. Brings him his favorite snacks as a treat just because, surrounding this poor boy in honest, genuine love and support. Add in respect, too, and he'd be a goner because those are the things that he's not getting anywhere else! The things that make Marinette unique.

This brings us to our new civilian dynamic. In canon, it's Marinette failing to confess in ever more spectacular ways as Alya tries and fails to help. In a reverse crush setup where everyone is friends without gender barriers, it's things like Adrien coming up with his canon confessions and then watching Alya and Nino react with genuine horror because, dude, you're going to give her a panic attack! No! Bad kitty! Stop that! No confessions until you come up with a plan that we approve of and read at least five books of dating advice because holy shit did homeschooling do you dirty in this area!

Then, while Adrien is working to learn how dating works, he learns that Marinette is in love with Chat Noir and, oh no! He thinks she's into his public persona, totally unaware that she knows the real Chat Noir and loves his dorky self. So he tries to emulate his sexy alter ego while Nino and Alya suffer and Marinette is just generally confused because she doesn't think of Chat Noir like that, so she doesn't even notice what Adrien is doing.

This also adds a nice mitigating factor to Adrien's unwillingness to give up even though it's pretty clear that Marinette isn't interested in his civilian self. If he knows that she loves him, then his persistence is less concerning and more comedic. It's not that he can't take a no, it's that he honestly knows with 100% certainty that the answer is NOT no because she's told him that to his face. He just needs her to realize that the guy she's in love with is right here, ready and willing!

The potential for comedy is just so much more broad and so much less mean spirited because Marinette has none of Adrien's reserved nature, so her friends would totally know about her massive "celebrity crush". Adrien comes over for school projects and just stares longingly at her Chat Noir posters, wishing he could tell her his secret, but knowing that he can't.

In my world, that is so much more fun than canon's setup where Marinette has no reason to hope. I also wouldn't draw the crushes out anywhere near as long as canon did. I like getting couples together in the mid-game. It's a nice early plot to hook you in, but defeating the villain is the end game, so we don't need to draw the romance out that long. Romance isn't that special. It's not all that different from an arc about two characters becoming friends.

That's far from the only major change I'd make to shape canon into my ideal version, but it is the probably the change that I love the most. It's also the change that requires the least context to explain, so there you go!

[wisteriasymphony]

A little something based on @dreamer-in-a-far-away-land 's post about a self-aware miraculous au! :) I think it'd only be natural that, if they figured this out, our lovely duo would try and find a way around it....

The knowledge that Marinette was Ladybug was something that, by design... Adrien had no reaction to. He hadn't been given a reaction yet, so he thought. The event hadn't yet been written. ...The Epicurean paradox states that, given the presence of evil, either God is not all-powerful or all-good: Though he now believes whatever pulls the strings must be neither, the fact that him and Marinette have kept such a profane secret for this long is testament enough that God's watch is finite.

He looks around, the streetlamps glowing with an orange light that reveals no shadows. This far out into the city, there are no doors and there are no windows. Streets end (or begin?) in perfectly straight lines, and he's stood in places where his feet can reach the sky below them. To step off the ledge is to fall for longer than he has ever lived. It's a boring suicide, and so he quit the habit.

"You have the ring?" Marinette asks him. To ease her anxious mind, she never wears her pigtails at night ("What do you think would look more like... 'me'?" she's asked him, as Ladybug, many nights before. He never knew the answer.). She hopes it's harder to recognize her that way.

Adrien nods, taking the hexagonal box out of his back pocket. The engraved lid of the wooden box is merely a trick of the light, as when Adrien passes his hands over its surface it is the same uncanny smooth as everything he's ever felt.

He licks his bottom lip, feeling a cold against his face that isn't there. "You have the earrings?"

Marinette takes out the same exact box from her jacket pocket, thumbs brushing up against the box's sides. She's so clever, infinitely clever, and yet it's always on the brink of trying something that she gets a chilling anxiety that transforms her into another person entirely. Adrien couldn't say whether this is or is not the 'real her', because that would mean deciding a 'real him'. He wants to believe that the girl he fell in love with, through act of God or otherwise, will keep that bravery and cleverness.

They swap boxes silently, exchanging wishes of good luck through their gazes. Adrien turns away to get home before sunrise, confident in the plan, before Marinette's hand pulls him back.

"Wait!" she whispers. "...I still have the earrings."

Adrien flips upon the box he knows for a fact Marinette just traded him, and sees his own miraculous inside.

They stop for a moment, and the silence around the outskirts of the city that once gave them comfort has now become haunting.

Marinette's brows are furrowed, but she insists they try again. The boxes are traded once more, then opened: Marinette has the earrings. Adrien has the ring.

"We can't... We can't give them up... I thought that wasn't written, it's... No, we've traded them before, there's no way..."

Marinette drops her box, fingers raking through her hair as she hyperventilates. Not bringing the Ladybug to a fight—Impossible. Permanently handing over the miracle box to Alya—Impossible. Luka is gone because of things she told him, Chloe is gone because of things she told her, and the more times she tries and tries and tries leads to people "moving" or "catching flights" or just not telling her why they leave entirely. Marinette can't even reach Socqueline anymore, and the number she spent her first year in middle school memorizing now only leads to static on the other end of the phone. There's nothing to do about it, nothing at all!

"Marinette, it's okay," Adrien spoke calmly, bending down to pick up the earrings-box. "We just need to keep trying. I believe in you."

For a moment, two rings of the Black Cat Miraculous are in Adrien's hands.

...Adrien neglects to tell her this, fearing it would only worry her further. Juggling both boxes in one palm, Adrien takes Marinette's hand in his, interlocking their fingers.

"I know y... I know we're going to find a way out of this, Ladybug. We have to."

"We don't even know what we're fighting, Adrien!"

"Tomorrow, don't use your lucky charm. Don't do anything that your gut tells you to," he says. "If anyone has a chance at surviving that, it's you."

"...And what are you going to do?"

Adrien smiles, handing her one of the boxes. "Tomorrow, I'm just going to follow you, like I always have," he assures her. "We'll figure it out from there."

[spiderfunkz]

✧.* LADYBUG & BUGBOY.

— summary : peter realizes that he is in love with you.

— word count : 0,7k

— warnings : fluff, tiny bit of angst, fem!reader, petnames (ladybug), peter teasing reader & reader teasing peter back, childhood friends to lovers.

a/n : his brown doe eyes literally make me WANT TO SCREAMMMMMM!! he's so skrunkly, he's so pookie, he's so😭😭😭😭☹️☹️☹️☹️☹️ also this is so messy sorry.

the cold autumn wind blew as leaves start to dance outside your window. you smile, flipping through the photo book titled 'y/n and peter's adventures'. you realize that you share so many memories with peter, you two basically grew up next to each other.

"ooh! how about this one? do you remember that?" you point to the picture of you and peter on halloween night. you were posing with the biggest smile on your face and peter was doing the same.

"halloween, i remember." he nodded. "was that the halloween where you cried because one house ran out of kitkats?" you asked, laughing as your mind replays the memory. peter nods again.

you kept smiling as your mind continues to replay the memories you had together. you look across your room and spot your beat-up converses, which reminded you of when peter taught you how to do bunnyloops.

you turn and look at the band poster you had up, which reminded you of when peter introduced you to it. you quietly chuckled as you remember when aunt may told peter to quiet down one afternoon because she couldn't hear the oven go 'ding!' which led to her muffins being burnt.

you continue to flip through the pages, observing each photo.

"oh my god, look!" you gasp. it was a picture of 4 year-old you kissing 4 year-old peter on the cheek, he has the biggest smile, his cheeks were red, and you could hear aunt may and uncle ben's laugh behind it.

you squint to see the small writing - it reads 'valentine's day'.

"may said you look like you were head over heels for me in this." you could recall the exact moment.

peter nods, but you don't notice that.

what you do notice is that peter has been awfully quiet this entire time.

actually,

he's been awfully quiet this entire week. you try to remember anything he has said earlier today, but nothing pops up. did you even see him in school today?

you also realize that he hasn't tried to text or call you recently. i mean, he doesn't have to do any of that. but, maybe you were just expecting something from him, you know?

"you've been acting really off recently, peter." you say, breaking the awkward silence.

he hesitates. you can tell.

you wait for his response, but he doesn't seem like he's gonna reply. so you shrug it off and continue flipping through the photo book.

"i think it's because i'm in love with you."

whatever you were expecting from him. it was not that.

you pause. "don't. joke about that."

"what? did i almost get you?" he laughs. and suddenly he's back to being peter from last week.

"that's not funny!" you throw a pillow at him.

"aww, you're blushing." peter teases. "don't rub it in now." you reply, hiding your face in the photo book.

"you're the one who won't make eye contact with me." — "yeah. 'cause you're hard to look at. especially after whatever you just pulled there."

"did you just call me ugly?"

"wow. now you're putting words in my mouth. you're manipulative too, why would i want to look at you?"

"just say you like looking at me. don't be so stubborn." he continues to tease you.

but you have to admit, he does have the prettiest eyes you have ever seen.

"how can you just say these things so easily?" you question, looking up from the photobook.

"what if i can say it because it's true?".

you blink.

"i feel so bad for gwen and harry. they must have a hard time dealing with you."

harry and gwen have been peter's closest friends since middle school, and peter's only other friends.

"you're the only one i'm like this with."

"so what? you're really in love with me?" you can't tell if this is some sick joke peter's doing, or if he's actually serious.

"absolutely. head. over. heels."

"so, you wouldn't mind if i do this?" you held his hand. "what? hold my hand? you already do that in the hallways so you wouldn't get lost."

you nod, "but you're blushing."

peter face was blank. his cheeks grew red.

"you there? you talk so confidently for someone who can't do the same things you tease me with."

"... you're. terrible."

"you were actually being serious?"

"terribly serious, ladybug."

"ladybug?"

"you'll get it."

[immaturityofthomasastruc]

When you really think about it, Chloe is just a version of Azula written by people who failed to understand what made Azula work as a character.

They are both malicious 14 year old girls that have a final swan song where they fight the heros for the last time and have a breakdown when they lose. They both have neglectful mothers (but like at complete opposites of the neglect spectrum) that they crave love from, and they both have "loving" fathers that shaped them into the horrible people that they are today.

However, the writers of ATLA understood that Azula is the way she is because of her circumstances; if her father wasn't abusive fire Hitler that encouraged the worst parts of Azula's personality, and if Ursa was able to have a better relationship with her daughter, then Azula would not have turned out the way she did.

Meanwhile, the writers of ML honestly think that Chloe is a bad person only because of her choices, despite writing the exact opposite. Chloe got her ideals of Rich superiority from her Father who raised her alone for most of her life, who is also shown to constantly abusing his political power in the early seasons, but the show dosen't point out that obvious connection beyond "he dosen't punish Chloe enough because he loves her too much UwU". Chloe's mother straight up dosen't care about Chloe and acts like a meaner version of her, but Chloe is the one the Narrative treats as the big threat that needs to be stopped? Andre gets rewarded with a new daughter despite being the reason why the old one turned out so bad??

Azula and Chloe are both cogs in the evil machine that realize they are unloved at the end of their stories, but while ATLA puts the blame on the machine, ML puts the blame on the cog and it's really weird because they laid the ground work for the evil machine!

Also, Zoe is like a dollar store version of Zuko I guess.

Here's another thing that made Azula work: Her progression as a villain felt more natural.

During Season 3 of Avatar: The Last Airbender, the show acknowledged how screwed up she was mentally. After losing Zuko, Mai, and Ty Lee and being made Fire Lord only for her father to crown himself Phoenix King, Azula's sanity gradually degraded, and it was played seriously. It was clear that as evil as she was, she has a lot of issues that make it hard to just write her off as beyond saving.

With Chloe, after the betrayal, the writers ramped up her evil moments while acting like she's always been this cruel. While you could argue these have been traits she's had since Season 1, there's no natural progression to her getting worse after she betrayed Ladybug.

[ilikekidsshows]

-long ask ahead-

Big fandom blog recently said that ML is a character-driven show, that it shows what the characters WOULD do, not what they SHOULD do. This really got me thinking.

Somehow I can kinda see their point; if there was a book about the events of ML written completely from Marinette's POV, we could see all her thoughts and how she disregards other characters' feelings/existance and it would make sense because they are not of any priority to her view of the world. As Marinette she has a strong drive to get Adrien into her hands that leads to all kinds of funny/questionable situations. Her depictions in the show where she paranoidly imagines scenarios with Adrien or is plotting to get to him is what I could see as character-driven moments. No-one outside of herself is giving her these goals and ambitions.

But aside from that? The Ladybug/superhero side seems only reactive instead of active. She saves the day when the villains attack, but has no ambition to go after them when the attack is over. There is no real tie to her personal life aside from her having to play the hero role and some attacks interrupting her civilian life. If the story wouldn't emphasize that she is the greatest Ladybug, and instead anyone could do it as well, then Marinette probably wouldn't do it. She doesn't seem personally attached to being Ladybug, as seen in Kwami's Choice. If we removed Hawkmoth with all his backstory and ambitions from the show, there wouldn't be a Ladybug, there wouldn't be a plot outside of Marinette wanting Adrien. Marinette is not interested in the lore of the miraculous or in being a superhero, she wouldn't do anything without an outside influence. So this side is more plot-driven if we view Hawkmoth as the plot-tool?

And what about characters popping out of nowhere and mingling with the plot (e.g. Felix, Chloe)? Chloe's actions are clearly often just there to further the plot of the episode instead of giving us insight on her character. Felix's goals change every other episode. Tomoe could be any other prop and we wouldn't know more about her, etc.

Can stressing about being the guardian be viewed as character-driven? No-one outside of Ladybug herself really pressures her to act a certain way in that role (Su-han could be talked down easily, I don't count him). Is her keeping secrets and disregarding Chat Noir a result of her controlling behaviour, thus character-driven? (but it's also extremely convenient for the writers to add tension or because they don't care about Chat Noir) And how is this perspective meant to make it more bearable to watch unfolding?

I did look up some character-driven vs. plot-driven posts and explanations, but the more I think about it in the context of ML, the more it blends together and I get no clear answer. Of course, there's probably very few exclusivly 100% character- or plot-driven stories, and certainly not a show like ML, but some elements should be easier to put in one box or the other? I'm not even sure about the definitions of character- vs plot-driven anymore, I'm so confused, I'm sure I got it wrong along the way and mixing in-character with writer's views and so on.

I would love to respark my enjoyment of the show with a simple change of perspective but I think that sadly won't do. In the end, whether it's this or that, I'm still disappointed and unsatisfied with how it went in the long run. Yet it's still interesting to think about how people who still really like the show could view it.

I think you mentioned on your blog that you have some education in media-analysis or something of the kind. If you like, could you share your perspective on the claim at the top?

What's the common definition of character-driven stories and can we apply it on ML?

Would this change of perspective make some writing choices more enjoyable (it's subjective, I know)? I think a lot viewers expect a superhero show to be more plot-heavy and characters to develop (or characters wanting to improve themselves somehow), so if we went into ML thinking from the start "this is not about the plot and how people should act, I'm just watching characters do whatever they would do" would our reactions be really different?

How would the show have to be written and presented to be truely character-driven?

Sorry that's a lot I ask. Feel free to answer whatever you like (or ignore the message). Thanks for reading anyway.

Anonymous asked: Miraculous is character driven story, the plot is determined by what the characters's do rather than the usual opposite with wath the characters doing is determined by the plot, said a friend of mine when we discussed before. What's your opinion about it if I may ask?

---

Okay, so I'm just going to start this by saying that "character-driven" and "plot-driven" are not literary analysis terms, but writing tip terms. It refers to what the focus of your story is. It means that, when you write a book or a movie, you should usually pick to prioritize an in-depth character study or a story with a lot of plots or world-building (the lore, if you will). Character-driven stories have a plot or several, but it isn't intended to be the main draw, so it can be sloppy while more work gets put into making sure the characters are complex and have clear arcs from beginning to end. Similarly, plot-driven stories can have complex characters, but the main draw is meant to be the larger narrative.

Plot-driven vesus character-driven is a writing tip against avoiding a bloated story full of unnecessary details. If your story is about two nobles dealing with an arranged marriage and the pressure their families put on them, having a complex magic system and magical duels using said system take up a bunch of pages is unnecessary. Similarly, if you're writing a story about a complex magic system, how it gets used and how it affects the society at large, dedicating a lot of time to a romance arc takes attention away from the actual points of the story, like the dreaded "forced Hollywood romance" in action/adventure movies.

In a comic or TV series, you usually (thanks companies for cutting episode counts; you suck) have more time and space to deal with more stuff, and varying stuff can improve a long-running series. In an ongoing, long-running superhero comic or show, you can and should use both and have them take turns. This is, in fact, the industry standard. Sure, a Batman story can technically have him chasing down Scarecrow, but, if the bulk of the episode/issue/trade is him battling his inner demons that the Scarecrow's Fear Toxin causes him to hallucinate, then is the story really about chasing down Scarecrow, or is it about developing Batman's character? (It's the latter.)

In general, I don't think "character-driven versus plot-driven" is a useful analysis tool, because it's binary. Basically, in media analysis, you should always try to avoid yes or no questions, but many binary questions are equally bereft of deeper meaning. Asking if Miraculous is character or plot-driven will answer that question, but not anything else. You can describe how you came to that conclusion, but the character/plot divide won't by itself create any other points to be made about the text, you need another tool/lense/question for that.

In addition, character-driven versus plot-driven can't refer to "what moves the story", because moving the story is the plot. The plot, or plots, are the cause-and-effect chains within a story. A plot doesn't move by itself, either natural occurences or character actions will move it along, you need a cause and effect. This also means, that, even if character-driven was a way to describe story progression, only stories about natural disasters could be not-character-driven.

In the top ask, the would vs should division seems to imply that the person describing Miraculous as character-driven is trying to say that, in Miraculous, the characters’ actions are supposed to be logical from the perspective of their personal motivations and not necessarily morally correct. This is how I’ve seen most people defend Marinette's villain arc; that we aren't meant to agree with her, but simply wait and see what the payoff will be.

The problem with this approach to analyzing Miraculous specifically is that the writers have never committed to a long-term payoff. I just can't believe that Marinette's villain arc will lead to a satisfying conclusion instead of the show either dropping the whole thing without addressing it, or having Marinette once again get so upsette that her victims have to console her. They're already setting up the possibility for instant forgiveness by focusing on how upset she was about the lying she “had” to commit. She already feels bad, so punishing her would be wrong, and the “punishment” here refers to any kind of long-term consequences for her actions.

Of course, the implication also is that, while we supposedly aren't supposed to agree with Marinette, we can't hold her too accountable either, we can't “demonize” her or want her to get “punished”. Which just sounds like we aren't even allowed to expect this “plotline” to have a satisfying conclusion. It could very well be that these people would think “yeah, Marinette was wrong but she feels really bad about it so let's just everyone forget about it until she does it again” would, in fact, be the satisfying payoff. Basically, even wanting the other characters to be justifiably upset with Marinette is the same as wanting to “punish” Marinette, so we can’t expect any character to behave like they have motivations or feelings outside of pleasing Marinette.

But, like, that's that thing with character actions supposedly making sense from their perspective; as you said in that book comparison, it only makes sense from Marinette's perspective. From any other perspective, what on earth is motivating the other characters to keep giving Marinette chance after chance while she squanders them all? She's not that good of a friend that she’d earn that much leeway, not from supposedly reasonable normal people who are merely acting how they would act instead of how the Marinette-favoring writers think they should act. The would versus should argument therefore only refers to Marinette and is just an excuse for her actions.

In addition, we have one big problem with the argument that Marinette is supposed to be a flawed character and anyone criticizing her is just too impatient to wait for the payoff for her character arc, in addition to the writers’ inability to write payoffs that I already mentioned. The other problem is that, while the audience might think Marinette needs to grow and become better, the writers don't. Every single one of Marinette's self-growth arcs has been scrapped: her inability to communicate got vindicated, her awkward romancing got excused and her quest to confess to Adrien got resolved by Adrien confessing instead. Marinette isn't a character who grows. In addition, the writers' every comment on the S5 finale has been nothing but excuses for why Adrien not knowing anything is right, because Adrien is just too emotional (like a hysterical woman who needs to be controlled because the writers are that kind of people).

So, in terms of what character-driven and plot-driven even mean: if Marinette is both completely disengaged from the plots of stopping the villains permanently or figuring out the Miraculous lore, and is a static character who doesn't actually grow or have a discernible arc, what is Miraculous as a show even about? In addition to the love square, it used to be about character development before the retool, but, after said retool, the characters have stagnated and the show just spins its wheels until the writers decide to have something cool happen to ramp up social media engagement. Now all we have is the love square and Marinette acting like she’s the center of the universe, so I guess the show is about the love square and Marinette, so it's technically character-driven, if character-driven can mean “making one character look like she’s the only one deserving of sympathy or celebration”. I guess you could say the show is Marinette-driven, it’s about Marinette and what she wants and what a girlboss she is while getting what she wants.

Frankly, it kinda sounds like the new character-driven vs plot-driven comparison is trying to create a new way to say: “don't expect a kids' show to be well-written.” It's kinda like people are saying: “of course the plot is shit because Miraculous is about the character writing”, but, like, the character writing is shit too. That’s what I’ve been saying since the S5 finale aired and Astruc started claiming that Marinette won and was truly kind and Adrien can't be trusted to know the truth about Gabriel: the way Marinette is written doesn't match how the writers want her to be viewed. The writers are only really interested in writing one character, but in a way where all her character arcs get scrapped, which, I think, doesn’t even hit the bare minimum requirement of being character-driven the way writing tip websites intend it.

My background in media analysis mainly means I'm pretty good at spotting patterns, and Miraculous' patterns reveal sloppy plot writing and sloppy character writing. It's all just been slop since the retool, mostly, I think, because the writers aren’t really interested in developing their characters or plots. The writers’ main focus seems to be to try to sell Marinette as an amazing person who deserves all the attention, while everything outside of isolated “cool” scenes gets overlooked. The wisemen of the groupchat saw these definitions and called Miraculous a “look at our cool girlboss”-driven show.

[pythagoras180]

Why the season 4 "arc" between Ladybug and Cat Noir is terrible

The Setup

So, what was the conflict in this arc about exactly? It's been years, and I'm still not totally sure. It probably has something to do with trust, or if "Kuro Neko" is to be believed, it's just about Cat Noir's unrequited feelings. Sometimes Cat Noir is complaining about her utilizing other superheroes, sometimes it's about them not knowing each other's identities (even though this season explained why that rule is in place), and sometimes he's just complaining about being in the dark.

I think the reason some people think there was actual substance here is because of how the the show frames it like Cat Noir is actually being mistreated by Ladybug. But the problem is that there's no real moment where he actually is mistreated. One of the cliches I hate most is when writers want there to be conflict between good guy characters, but they don't want one of them to actually do anything wrong, so then the other character just comes across as completely unreasonable and whiney. Honestly, as the season was airing, the argument could have been made that the problem was entirely with Cat Noir being insecure and selfish. But that argument goes out the window in the season finale, which we'll get to later. But the fact is that the only thing Ladybug is "guilty" of is utilizing the resources at her disposal and following a rule of secret identities that protects everyone.

The only exception to this is in the episode "Ephemeral". Ladybug actually does something wrong here, where she decieves Cat Noir into revealing his identity to Luka and Su-Han without his knowledge or consent. And honestly? This comes completely out of nowhere. The Ladybug throughout most of this season does not seem like the kind of person who would do that. It honestly feels shoved in to try to make Cat Noir's actions more justified. The problem with that is that Cat Noir doesn't actually know what Ladybug did, so this is no excuse.

So the fact that the arc doesn't define what the issue actually is or put the blame where it lies means that there's really nothing for the characters to learn here. I mean, the episode "Penalteam" tries to frame it like Ladybug's flaw is she wants to handle everything herself, which completely contradicts the narrative framing her use of other heroes as wrong. It's honestly just pure nonsense.

The Payoff

So the big payoff for this arc is the ending of the season finale, "Strike Back". Ladybug suffers a massive loss, apologizes to Cat Noir for everything, and he chooses to stick with her despite everything. On paper, this looks like an amazing payoff. And plenty of people did find it emotional, even me at first. But once you actually peel back the layers, you'll see that it's completely hollow.

Let's start with Ladybug's defeat. Honestly, the writers completely rigged the situation to make her lose. Ladybug didn't fail because of a character flaw, there wasn't really a way she could have avoided what happened. Supposedly, her flaw was not trusting or depending on Cat Noir. But how exactly would her doing so here have changed the outcome? It's not like Cat Noir offered an alternative solution and she didn't listen. In fact, he disobeyed her orders and made the situation worse. So Ladybug's "flaw" played no part in this defeat.

Next, there's Ladybug's apology. Let's break down everything she says and see why it's nonsense. "I wanted to control everything" When exactly did Ladybug overstep? She never put overbearing limitations on Cat Noir. She acted like a perfectly reasonable leader. "I didn't listen to you" Listen about what exactly? When did Cat Noir tell her anything that she disregarded. "I lied to you" She did, in "Ephemeral". Too bad Cat Noir didn't know about that. And considering her lying ended up interrupted, it's honestly just the intent of lying. "I kept you at a distance" At the beginning of the season, they're actually much closer than they've ever been, as they hang out outside of battle. What exactly is Ladybug referring to here? The only thing I can think of is the Rena Furtive stuff, but there weren't any consequences to this and Cat Noir had no meaningful reaction when he found out the truth. "Every time you offered me a helping hand, I never took it" Like I just mentioned, Cat Noir never offered alternate solutions that she ignored. The only thing this might be referring to is the opening of "Kuro Neko", but it was clearly explained why he couldn't actually be helpful in collecting the Miraculouses, and he was obviously in the wrong there. So, since Ladybug never did anything actually wrong that Cat Noir knew about, this apology doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Cat Noir only ever complained about stuff that wasn't actually bad or her fault.

As for Cat Noir sticking with her, well again, that falls flat because she didn't do anything wrong to him. He'd have no reason to do anything else. And considering how much he complained about the other heroes, he's probably quite happy that they're gone now. Cat Noir is not making a sacrifice, he got exactly what he wanted.

So this payoff means absolutely nothing. Honestly, the framing is very good which is why it tricked so many people into liking it. But ultimately, the lack of any decent setup leads to a payoff that falls completely flat, even if the payoff itself is well written.

The Aftermath

If what I've talked about already wasn't bad enough, this arc also ultimately has no impact on the overall story.

If you're going to make an arc where Ladybug learns to trust and depend on Cat Noir (which she always did, but whatever), then the obvious effect that should have moving forward is that Ladybug should choose to trust him in a situation she previously wouldn't have, and she would benefit because of this. Except, there is nothing like this. Throughout all of season 5, there is not a single moment where Ladybug puts more trust in Cat Noir than before. I know that the moment that most would point towards is the season 5 premier, "Evolution", where she trusts Cat Noir with the Rabbit Miraculous. Hmmm, Ladybug trusting Cat Noir with a time Miraculous. I guess that is a new thing. Wait, no it's not, that literally already happened in "Miracle Queen". So Ladybug is just doing something she already did 2 seasons ago. And there's also no real benefit to this. Cat Noir didn't do anything with it that Ladybug wouldn't have done if she chose to use it herself. So this moment is completely substanceless. This is not a new level of trust, and Ladybug doesn't actually benefit from her "growth". And it doesn't help that this is the only moment that might qualify as the aftermath of the arc. Throughout the rest of the season, Ladybug displays absolutely no amount of exceptional trust in Cat Noir. And ultimately, it probably would have been better if Ladybug instead learned not to depend on Cat Noir, as he ends up playing no role in the final battle, and she has to handle everything alone.

So in the end, the so called arc in season 4 had a poor setup that didn't have Ladybug display actual flaws, a poor payoff that has Ladybug lose because of factors beyond her control, and an aftermath where the "lesson" she learned plays absolutely no part in the events that follow. I genuinely think that the reason this arc exists is just as filler, and to create meaningless drama for fans to talk about.

[familyagrestefanblog]

I know I already brought this point up before, but thinking about it further made me realize how out of their way they went to set this up.

I'm pretty sure "Derision" did all of THAT to Kim's character - despite his growth in the last seasons - because from season 6 onwards he'll be used as the new main slapstick comic relief team mate Ladybug can get angry at for "badly timed jokes she personally didn't like in that moment" and use him as object and tool.

That's why Kim was now characterized as a MEAN-SPIRITED incel jokester

As Marinette's first love interest who hurt her so much that she's traumatized

Who likes and still LOVES Chloé and thinks she's funny for what they are doing while bullying, and says all that in front of his girlfriend

Kim as King Monkey has the same 'animal comic relief' energy as Adrichat was stuck with pre-s5 to the point where Adrien in "Penalteam" even outright called his treatment "animal abuse" but the show keeps insisting that it's all his fault and Marinette is being the kindest and most justified leader imaginable, no matter what horrible thing she does to him because it's never her fault anymore.

Marinette got too much 'unjustified and mean' hate for having done it to her kind and abused love interest, so now they just turned King Monkey into a base line mean-spirited, legit stupid, and easy to hate scapegoat team member so the show can continue having her to it to show that "she was never WRONG in the first place", Adrien just finally "learned his lesson" through being physically and emotionally beaten into shape, but Kim is just so... HIMSELF that she will unfortunately 'have to' continue doing it :(

No matter how badly that reflects on her leadership that she can't keep her team in check any other way and that she let's him stay at all. But they'll probably blame that on Fu because Kim is besides Chat the only person in her normal team constellation (so Félix doesn't count for this) she didn't choose "so naturally there is a pattern with how she 'must treat them' so they act accordingly to her leadership standards and properly respect her"

Adrien, Kim, Chloé, and Lila/ Cerise. Funny how there is always a pattern in the treatment of the holders Marinette didn't cherry-pick. Félix here truly is the one that got away because he's a writers' darling.

I know, I should be glad that this means Adrichat is going to keep his better treatment that actually allowes human rights and dignity for him in Maribug's leadership. But this isn't going to actually take care of the problem I have with Marinette being depicted like that as leader as an "empowerment" message.

I want her to be a good leader and role model and not just constantly have the show claim that as long as the episodes say that "she hurts the right people" to make sure she gets the respect and reward she wants but doesn't owe it to anyone to give it in return :/

[shysublimecoffee]

I prefer not to sound harsh, but Miraculous has become a fandom where I find more enjoyment in reading fanfics than watching the show. It feels like there's a lack of effort or an attempt to justify and rearrange elements, often ignoring past seasons and assuming the audience won't notice. The handling of Derision is a notable example, with more astute critics than me delving into their dissatisfaction and the evident retcons.

I didn't anticipate the show going to such lengths as portraying Gabriel as someone deserving of a statue, and it left a sour taste in my mouth to see the hero endorsing it. Adrien/ChatNoir's portrayal has become quite pitiful, with a peculiar shift where Ladybug takes on a significant role in the Agreste Saga despite her absence from that narrative. Ladybug, who isn't even part of the Agreste Saga, is the one delivering heartfelt moments. The decision to sideline Adrien and put him out of commission is disappointing. It's his story yet she the one who has to make it about her. She gets to shine along with a cool costume to boot.

There's a palpable bias from Astruc against Chloe, evident in the show's treatment of her character. Despite her being manipulated by Gabriel Agreste, the narrative blames her for becoming mayor, and the absurdity of the situation is magnified when everyone in the story goes along with it. The inclusion of a scene in Revolution where Chloe is crying is perplexing and frustrating, as it seems to perpetuate the negative and irredeemable image the show consistently paints of her. The added layer of her mother being horrid to her intensifies my annoyance, especially when sympathetic scenes are presented in a seemingly contradictory manner.

I mean you want her to be the worst but yet she has scenes like this? Why not go all the way wtf. Why give her depth only to take it away and then make her be so demonized in s5 and act like she was like this from the start. When she's been a joke

I hate to be critical, but seriously, it's hard to ignore how the Miraculous universe is just dripping with untapped potential. Five seasons in, and the movie outshines the show effortlessly. It makes you wonder about the writers' team and their approach—seems like they're just coasting on low effort for profit, and somehow, it's working, thanks to Miraculous inexplicable popularity.

The show's been beating the monster-of-the-week horse for five long seasons, lacking any creativity in crafting interesting villains. Gabriel, honestly, feels like a starter villain, and if they're going to make him the big bad, can we at least get some villains with a bit more pizzazz? You know craft creative interesting villains? KNDS, Original PPG, Totally Spies they got it so why not Miraculous. It's so damn tiring seeing the same old song and dance with Gabriel 24/7 monologuing to his wife and releasing the akuma I thought Mayura would be important but she's barely there.

It's not even an excuse kids do deserve better entertainment so why should Miraculous lower its standards. Marinette is very weird to me as the protagonist because her lovelife is more focused over everything I gauged her well enough to know about her that the rest of the secondary needs more of a spotlight to be cast on them. I like her but am I the only one who just skips when she starts the whining about Adrien and her plan to again get together it was cute at first now I fast forward to the more interesting part of the episode because it irks me i'm tired okay... what other facet of her character do the writers focus on besides her love life? I hope I don't appear to salt on her but Imma tag it just in case. I think she's in neutral treading to dislike because how can I come back from her gaslighting her boyfriends I'm sorry I can't.

You know what I'm afraid of that if Lila gonna be the next big bad they'll just recycle everything from Gabriel onto her. We'll have the same akumatizations same monster of the week formula only this time it's Lila.

I trust more in the fanfic community to come up with a better substantial plot than Miraculous could ever be. I know romance is a big part but the lore is so damn little it's season 5 are they ever going to expand more in the later seasons lol.

I'm tired from writing this long. Imma go to bed now.