#say what you want about whatever subtext you see in it i'm not going to criticise you but don't give disney points they don't deserve

[youssefguedira]

look i haven't seen deadpool and wolverine and won't for another month if i see it at all (i'm not paying for it) so this is all conjecture but i find the fact that its marketing has been heavily focused on implying that deadpool and wolverine are/will be in a relationship, which is like clearly not going to happen this is the mcu lmao, and the fact that it has been pushing this so hard for a character whose queerness has entirely been reduced to essentially making gay jokes for extra edginess points while refusing to ever engage with it more deeply (i admit i haven't seen the first two deadpool movies in several years but he is in a long running relationship with a woman and just like. makes jokes about finding colossus hot to my memory) than that, Not A Good Look, you could say. and like come on it's 2024 this is textbook queerbaiting and for a movie that seems to be pushing its supposed potential queer relationship in all of its marketing all of the jokes have always just felt vaguely homophobic to me. maybe the movie will make me feel differently but like. i highly doubt that

[ishouldreallybeelsewhere]

Episode one of Supernatural is so flawed that, had I watched it for the first time last night (instead of for the third), I would not have have watched the second. Ever. The flaws are things I simply didn't pick up on when I was thirteen, and memory glazed over with emotional attachment. I understand why these flaws are there, what the writers tried and failed to do through clumsy dialogue and strange character decisions. There's no subtlety. Everything Sam says is direct exposition, specifically the things that he would not have to say to his brother.

I do not do reviews so that's all I'm going to say.

[skaruresonic]

The common rebuttal to "this reads like fanfic (derogatory)" is "read better fanfic," which is true in certain cases, but on the other hand, there is some grain of truth to the idea that you can tell when someone's primary mode of literary analysis is fanfic instead of... well... literally anything else. It's okay to like or even prefer fanfic, but if you want to take your craft seriously you also need to read books, dude. Published books will teach you a lot of stuff fanfic doesn't, like proper dialogue formatting and how to introduce your reader to unfamiliar characters. Even the crappiest book (well, if it's not After or 50 Shades, which started off as fanfic to begin with lol) will have been subjected to some sort of editing process to ensure at least the appearance of proper grammar. That's not a guarantee with your average fanfic, and hence why you can't always take all your writing cues from fanfic because it's "so much better" than commercially published original fiction or whatever. Frankly, fic writers tend to peddle some absolutist and downright bad takes sometimes. "Said is dead" is a terrible rule, though not because said is invisible and a perfectly serviceable tag; that's just part of it. Dialogue tags are a garnish, not a main dish that can be swapped out for more ostentatious words. If your characters murmur and mutter instead of simply saying stuff, your readers are going to wonder why nobody speaks up. "'I'm explaining some very plot-important shit right now lol,' she elaborated," likewise, is a form of telling. Instead of letting the reader extrapolate that "she elaborated" via the contents of the dialogue itself, you're telling them what to think about it. And that's why it's distracting: your authorial hand is showing. Writing is an act of camouflage. You, as the writer, need to make your presence as invisible as possible so as to not intrude on the reader's suspension of disbelief. That's the driving reason behind "show, don't tell." And overall, everyone could stand to cut down on the frequency of their dialogue tags anyway. Not every exchange needs "he said" or "she whispered" attached as long as you establish who is doing the talking before the exchange. Some people will complain of confusion if you go on for too long without a dialogue tag, and that definitely is a risk, but at some point you also need to resist the temptation of holding the reader's hand. If they can't follow a conversation between two people, chances are they weren't meeting you halfway and paying that much attention in the first place. In fact, you don't even necessarily need action beats in between every piece of dialogue, as Tumblr writing advice posts will often suggest as a fix. Pruning things often cleans them up just fine.

Another fanfic-influenced trend in writing is, I guess, beige prose? A heavy focus on internal narration with lots of telling. It's not a style I can concretely describe, but every time I click on a non-mutual's writing, I feel like it always has, like. This "samey" voice to it. There's no real attempt to experiment and use unique or provocative language, or even imagery half the time. It's almost a dry recital of narration that doesn't leave much room for subtext. I see this style most often in fanfic where you can meander and wax poetic about how the characters feel without ever really getting around to the plot. And it's like. DO something.

Other tells that the author is taking their cues from fanfic mores rather than books: >>too much minute description of eyes, especially their color and their movement >>doesn't leave much room for subtext (has a character speak their every thought aloud instead of letting the reader infer what they're thinking via action or implication) >>too much stage action ("X looked at Y. Y moved to push their seat in. X took a deep breath and stepped toward Y with a determined look on his face. 'We need to talk,' he said.") >>tells instead of shows, even when the example is about showing instead of telling ("he clenched his teeth in agony" instead of just "he clenched his teeth") >>has improper dialogue tag formatting, especially with putting full stops where there should be commas ("'Lol and lmao.' she said" instead of "'Lol and lmao,' she said." This one drives me up a wall) >>uses too many dialogue tags >>"em dashes, semi-colons and commas, my beloved" - I get the appeal but full stops are your friends. Too much alternate punctuation makes your writing seem stilted and choppy. >>"he's all tousled brown hair and hard muscle" and "she's all smiles and long legs." This turn of phrase is so cliche, it drives me up a wall. Find less trite ways of describing your characters pls. >>"X released a breath he didn't know he'd been holding" >>every fucking Hot Guy ever is described as lean and sinewy >>sobbing. why is everyone sobbing. some restraint, pls >>Tumblr in general tends to think a truism counts as good writing if you make the most melodramatic statement possible (bonus: if it's written in a faux-archaic way), garnish it with a hint of egotism, and toss in allusions to the Christian God, afterlife, or death. ("I will stare God in the face and walk backwards into hell," "What is a god to a nonbeliever?") It's indicative of emotional immaturity imo, that every emotional truth need be expressed That Intensely in order to resonate with people. >>pushes the "Oh." moment as the pinnacle of Romantic Epiphany >>Therapy Speak dialogue. why is this emotionally constipated forty-something man who drinks himself stupid every morning to escape gruesome war memories speaking about his trauma like a clinical psychologist >>"this well-established kuudere should Show More Emoshun. I want him to break down crying on his love interest's shoulder from all his repressed trauma" - I am begging u. stop >>"why don't the characters just talk to each other?" "why can't we have healthy relationships?" I don't know, maybe because fiction is not supposed to be a model for reality and perfect communication makes for boring drama?

>>improperly using actions as dialogue tags ("'Looks like we're going hunting,' he grinned") >>why is everyone muttering and murmuring. speak up >>too many adverbs, especially "weakly" and "shakily." use stronger verbs. ("trembled" instead of "shook weakly") >>too many epithets ("the younger man" or "the brunette detective") >>too many filter words ("he felt," "she thought," "I remembered")

>>no, Tumblr, first-person POV is not the devil; you're just using way too many filter words (see above) and not enough sentence variation to make it flow well enough. First-person POV is an actually pretty good POV (not just for unreliable and self-aware narrators) if you know what you're doing and a lot of fun crafting an engaging character voice. Tumblr's hatred of first-person baffles me, and all I can think is you would only hate it if your only frame of reference was, like, My Immortal. Have you tried reading A Book? First-person POV is just another tool in your toolbox, and like all tools, it can be used properly or improperly. But it's not inherently a marker of bad writing. The disdain surrounding it strikes me as about as sensical as making fun of the concept of characters. Oh, your work has characters in it? Ew, I automatically click off a fic if it has characters in it. like what.

[windienine]

the best game of 2024 was an hour-long visual novel demo, and i can't tell you how it ends

attack and dethrone god.

okay. oh my god. soul of sovereignty by ggdg (of lady of the shard & deltarune fame) is discounted for only a few more days, so i need to get this one out while the iron's hot.

so: i'm inviting you along on another journey. we're following a polite gentleman of the wizardly inclination (loïc) who is approached by a sickly woman in dire need (ysmé). all she requests, in her plea, is an escort to guide her to the nearby temple. his decision to support her may turn out to be the most important choice he ever makes.

... have you ever enjoyed the kind of narrative that traps two people with heavily contrasting motives and personalities together in an unbreakable contract? do you like stories of absolute devotion?

i could look at this shot forever ngl

... are you compelled by immersive speculative fantasy worlds where the use and study of magic heavily influences the rhythm of people's day-to-day lives?

(really intriguing magical linguistics system going on here)

... do you ever promise too much of yourself to others, sometimes, even when it's a bad idea?

... if it was possible -- if you could -- would you abandon your humanity for the power to change your world forever?

and, whatever you may feel in your heart about the above...

do you want to see behind the eyes of a hot trans girl as she bullshits her way into a truly volatile level of power and influence and gets everything she wants?

(+ her pet dilf lovely assistant)

if even one of these elicited a "yes," i think you'll love this story.

i'll go out of a limb:

i think, if you open up your heart, you'll find yourself falling for both of the leads. It's a game that really wants you to look at it from every angle, take it apart, and ask questions about loïc, ysmé, their stories, and what they believe to be true about the world and one another. subtext -- especially the charged subtext this story throws at you and hopes you'll piece together -- is a beautiful thing.

the number of talksprites in this demo is kind of staggering

the jrpg-inspired world of the mosaic and its surroundings is as vibrant as it is profoundly lonely, color folded into every facet of its character as you move through it. appropriately, it's really invested in a lot of questions that arise not just from high fantasy as a genre, but from the modern fantasy sensibilities of jrpgs and the interrogation of what divinity even means in a world where the gods are forces you can interact with and draw power from, however indirectly.

what can i even say? that gg and toby fox's collab score for the prelude is downright heavenly and made it onto my work playlist right alongside the deltarune ost the day it came out on bandcamp? that gg's art, especially their use of light, conveys every scene with vivid beauty?

i wouldn't be posting so much of it if i didn't want to eat every CG. oh my god. he's so pretty. it's not even fair

beyond all of that, i think the game's main resonance point with people is that gg's writing is genuinely thoughtful. they use art detail and deft character writing to convey everything about the leads, using the limited time you get with it to paint layers and layers of information on who these people are and why they make the decisions they do. soulsov's roughly an-hour-and-change of text, expressive talksprites, and lush CGs is infused with so much heart and so much horror and so much intrigue that it leaves you feeling like you're a part of this world, carried along for the ride right alongside the two leads. gg clearly really adores these two, and that level of passion makes everything loïc and ysmé do shine even brighter. in spite of (or perhaps because of) all their friction and flaws, they're easy to love.

(it's really fun to read aloud as a script, too! ysmé's a hoot.)

i hope you experience it with high expectations and an open heart. i don't think it will disappoint. it is, perhaps, just a little bit magical.

i hope you see it through to the end!

[storytellering]

Do you think DMC has a incestuous subtext? I am kind of new to the franchise (and also the fandom... Which isn't really respectful that I can see) and I want to know if I am not the only one who thinks that it's pretty obvious why the ships between DVN have many believers.

First of all, welcome to DMC, anon! And OH BOY, you'll definitely find that that's the majority opinion, at least within the Spardacest circles - honestly, most "normie" circles too. Every grass-touching, non-internet poisoned dudebro I've ever met and talked dmc with has made one or two incest jokes at me about it, definitely noting how the rivalry between the twins is very charged - the only people I've found who flat out deny it are the antis. To go more in depth about the actual subtext there - well, one should start with the roots of dmc in dmc1, right? DMC1 is definitely a gothic game - it's everywhere in the aesthetics, the inspirations, the imagery and the environment, and what is gothic horror without the incest? The initial incest in Kamiya's dmc, before Itsuno stepped in, was definitely obvious in Dante and Trish (who I'm pretty sure according to kamiya at least were supposed to be endgame) - and like, c'mon. You can say all you want that she only looks like his mom, she isn't actually Eva, she doesn't even have her personality... but from a moral perspective, that's still weird as fuck if we're going by real life standards, right? You wouldn't fuck a clone of your mom without it being at least a little bit incestuous.

Then Itsuno stepped in from 3 on, and the incestuous undertones became more focused on the immediate Sparda family - the twins, and eventually, Nero.

...Do I need to even explain it? Sure, in 3 the twins bicker and banter like real brothers, but there's definitely a suggestive edge to it - so many quips between them that really cannot be explained by "oh haha brotherly banter" without it getting at least a little bit weird. Not to mention all the "impalement as penetration" comparisons that can be drawn, and I'll leave a nice little video that goes deeper into a lot of that (as well as the gothic inspirations in the dmc franchise) so you can hear it from the mouth of someone far more eloquent than me.

And then in 4... I mean, if the amount of people who almost ubiquitously shipped Dante and Nero as soon as 4 dropped and continued doing so until 5 officially confirmed their relation (which, to be fair, Nero being Dante's nephew had actually been hinted at all along, but exactly because of so many people shipping them and not wanting it to be incestuous/the dudebros not liking Nero very much when 4 was new, pretty much everyone in the english speaking side of the fandom had been in denial about it until 5 spelled it out in big, bold letters) is kind of the test, no? That the tension and chemistry is so obvious the moment the incest element is hidden or unclear, everyone is suddenly in agreement about it. I could go on and on and on about Nero's obvious puppy crush/hero worship on Dante, Dante's immediate fondness of Nero, how if you read the 4 novels it's even more blatant and in your face... but all I'm gonna say is that that initial fight scene was softcore porn and no one can convince me otherwise, lmao. Listen, I'm just saying that if the intention wasn't to be suggestive, having Nero wrap his legs around Dante to pull him closer, bite his gun, and then straddle him like that was a very poor choice. Honorable mention for the reboot, whose devs were VERY aware of the tension between the Spardas in the og franchise, called it out by saying their game wasn't gonna do "all that gay shit" (obviously in the early 2010s the issue wasn't the incest, but it being GAY incest 🙄) and then accidentally made their version of the twins SO very....... whatever the hell is going on with the reboot twins. Not not-incestuous and definitely not straight, I'll tell you that.

And then 5, again. Do I need to explain it? Nero and V are, once again, a perfect textbook example of "couple that had so much natural chemistry everyone was flocking to it before it was revealed to be incest", plus the way everything about Dante's story, at the end, now that he's a weathered old man, is made to revolve around Vergil... yes, Dante is a depressed old alcoholic because he pushed everyone away, because of the laundry list of issues he ended up with because of everything that happened in his life, BUT Vergil was always front and center within it, even when he wasn't there. That Dante's story quite literally begins and ends with Vergil... well. I dunno about you, that just doesn't feel like your regular siblings dynamic. Also another honorable mention: "I'll make you submit" is a totally normal thing to say to your estranged father. Not weird at all with absolutely zero implications. OH, not to mention, even if we stay purely within canon and don't even look deeper at any implications or subtext... the literal only canon couple is incestuous, too. Let's not forget Kyrie and Nero are adopted siblings, Nero was raised as her brother, and the game itself calls it out in the character descritption (in 4's character bios it says Kyrie is at once Nero's "lover and family") + it's quite literally spelled out in the novels (having Nero think that "well, while it's true that he's been raised with Kyrie as siblings, he would've liked her even if they weren't family"). There's SO much more I could still go into, I have quite literally spent the past 3 years replaying the games over and over and overthinking/hyperanalizing every single frame, rereading the novels and the mangas to the point I could cite them by memory, and it's just... I dunno. I saw someone else say this somewhere, but if you're into DMC and grossed out by incest... this might not be the franchise for you.

[ot3]

sticking under the cut because i am just gawking at a long and deeply perplexing random post i saw in the ace attorney tag

anyway so this post starts out like this

and i was totally prepared to be like. 'okay yeah for sure. phoenix and iris.' because i mean. i try to read most posts in good faith and to me that's the character dynamic you would talk about if you wanted to talk about overlooked heterosexuality in ace attorney. i dont know Why you want to go to bat for Heterosexuality In Fiction so badly but if you were going to go to bat for it in ace attorney i feel like that's the part of the narrative where it has the most weight. especially because OP is directly invoking authorial intent here. so i was really blown away by the post continuing like this:

this just.... is not true. like i'm not even going to bother talking about simon and athena because like hell if i paid enough attention to dual destinies to have a take there. but i just... don't think this is true??? i feel like the world 'culturally normative' is doing an insane amount of heavy lifting here because. well i mean the great ace attorney is set in the meiji era. i don't think the writing being done there is the same 'culturally normative' as whatever 'culturally normative' perspective the hypothetical american moviegoing audience would bring in here.

and also why is the american movie-going public the measuring stick for what the correct/obvious interpretation of a. japanese visual novel series. should be? i don't understand... i don't understand thsi take.... this is just so surreal to me.

yeah i guess age gap pairings are pretty normal and romanticized and when a general hetero audience sees Any Man and Any Woman have a close relationship to each other their interpretation is often a heterosexual one. but also i feel like at least in the trilogy. i feel like aa1-4 do a pretty specific job of establishing phoenix and maya's relationship as distinctly Not romantic. pearl thinking theyre in love just because they care about each other is kind of a running gag. im just so confused here. i dont think there's romantic subtext between phoenix and maya i think they have a close relationship that some people Could choose to view as romantic feelings if they wanted which is just absolutely not the same thing.

like i said earlier the fact that theyre specifically saying 'this is more in line with what the people who ace attorney is written by think' is really whats doing it for me. i dont think thats the case. i simply think if shu takumi had wanted romantic tension between maya and phoenix or ryuunosuke and susato then he would have made very different writing choices than the ones he did

[irishhorse-blog]

I received the usual private messages telling me how delulu I am, how disrespectful I am to Jimin because he clearly said he's single and not looking. Okay. I'm not going to respond to each message individually, so I'll address these things here.

Yes, I heard what he said. I know that there are many ways to interpret his words and the signals and signs that have been shown for lo this past decade. Some will see it at face value; some will see it through hate; some will see it through protective lenses; others will see it in a shipper's light. Do any of us really know what he means, or what his life situation is? No. I and the other Jikook stans could be completely wrong.

When I started shipping, I was ambivalent about the whole process. It's honestly gross to force a romantic narrative onto real people when it's very likely to not only be untrue but also offensive to the people involved. I never got involved in RP shipping before, and if I'm honest, the concept sort of squicked me out.

So why do I write a Jikook blog, you may ask? I believe in what I see. I believe that they're actually a couple and that they're actually in a committed relationship. I'm not shipping them. I'm supporting them. And if it turns out that I'm wrong and I've been an assclown this whole time, so be it. I still love them, and I'm still here for it. My first priority and the only thing I have ever wished for them is that they're happy, no matter what they're doing, no matter who they end up with. I hope they find the lives and the loves that they want, because they deserve it.

I believe that Jikook is real. I also believe that there is subtext to the things that Jimin was saying in the second MiniMoni video. I do listen to what he says, and what JK says, and what the other guys say about them. It's the combination of all these words over all these years that has convinced me.

Whatever the truth is, it may never be something we out here in the wider world get to know. It might be that their lives will always remain private, and that's okay. I swear that I won't have a conniption or throw a hissy fit if it turns out that both JK and Jimin end up marrying women and having families of their own. I think they'd both be wonderful fathers, for what it's worth.

I just don't think they will. And only time will tell.

So, keep slinging accusations at me, and keep accusing me and belittling me if it makes you happy. What you have to say means nothing to me. My opinion is my own, and in the grand scheme of things, in the face of death, destruction, war and grief, it hardly matters whether or not two celebrities I'll never meet in person are busy sevening each other. I'm not going to argue about this. There are more important things in this world that deserve my attention and my energy.

[pretty-weird-ideas]

IWTV Twitter and the so-called "Fake Black Fans" Invasion

Something that I've been seeing a lot after it gained traction on Max is white fans condescendingly talking down to Black fans, some of whom have been in this fandom longer than they have, and acting as if they don't know what they are talking about because of their critique including a concept or subtext they wish to ignore. I want to repeat that this doesn't happen in the same amounts to white fans who make analyses or memes, it seems to uniquely be Black fans speaking AAVE or with Black pfps (visibly black bc of this) being bombed in the comments for having valid opinions.

I reached about the fifth tweet of white women going onto posts of Black people (particularly older women on Black Twitter) talking about IWTV and saying "You don't know what you're talking about, read the source material/finish the show" or entirely saying that "You don't understand fandom culture". Prompting those Black people to respond curtly that they, in fact, have read the source material, finished the show long before they have, and have been a fandom elder since before they even rolled into town. I witnessed someone doing BABY talk to a 30-year-old Black woman who was talking about episode 5, with "Well you see, it's not my fault you can't read". And when the woman professed anger back, she was the one blocked.

I witnessed this backhanded shit FIVE TIMES over the course of this week. With different white women doing the job of whitesplaining fandom culture and Anne Rice to random Black fans who already know unprompted with a level of passive aggressiveness and annoyance that only comes with doing it repeatedly. I must assure you (white people who are doing this) nobody asked, you can put down your task and stop pretending like you are doing something Sisyphean. You are not legally required to explain and describe IWTV poorly while getting into screaming matches with far more educated Black fans on Twitter and Tumblr.

People are acting as if there's a rising population of Black fans who are "Fake Fans" and must be stopped, lest they start up the freaky discourse. OOHHH NOOOO! Whatever are we to do then???? And therefore it is completely normal and a civic duty to blast Black fans in the comments of everything that they say about the show or the books.

I've been seeing people unironically football tackle reaction posts of the show with paragraphs worth of text that is inflammatory and backhanded. This is even more apparent when the poster is visibly black or uses AAVE. The association is that Black people who use AAVE or memes obviously are uneducated, lack media literacy, and cannot consume content the way that "White" fans do.

It is an attempt to tone police Black fans away from creating new topics of discussion or creating/expanding the fandom space with the growing watcher-base. It always has to happen in their chosen language, on their time, in the places they can reach us and yell some more. They are very discomforted when Black fans have pockets in fandom where they can't be outnumbered and they do in fact control discourse in a way that isn't productive to respectability. (As much as I am a big fan of big words and rambling, that is somewhat what is expected in this fandom as a Black person to be considered "respectable" and I'm not willing to ignore or shy away from that).

This is also hand in hand with my previous thoughts about fans' dog-whistling about media becoming accessible/mainstream and how "Others" will ruin it and outnumber them. I noticed that in the IWTV fandom, it seems like white fans believe that the "Others" is just Black Twitter in general. Not just "Twitter" but specifically Black people who don't fit into their narrow respectability politics.

I hate to tell you all this, but Black fandom culture is still fandom culture, and Black people do in fact read and write. I should not be seeing a pattern of random white fans going into the comments of Black people who mention IWTV and automatically assuming that they have no clue what they're talking about.

Like clockwork, exactly as when the show came out, racist white book fans started up the discourse of "The Black people are going to ruin fandom with their racism discourse and spit on Anne Rice!" and then when that time passed, the show reaches Max, and here they go barking again.... We really need to get a muzzle.

[molinaesque]

Cooper Howard and Lucy MacLean's rare and wonderful dynamic (and how it's ultimately alright if they don't become "endgame" or whatever)

First off... I'm saying this as a HUGE ghoulcy shipper btw. I don't wanna hear about some bullshit about how "you just don't like the ship" or something dumb like that (have you SEEN the state of my blog??). I ADORE this ship. These are also ultimately my own thoughts. Do not be affronted if this somehow doesn't apply to your hcs. At the end of the day, this is fiction, nothing more.

Something I have to note on about the wonderful dynamic between Cooper and Lucy. Even if ghoulcy stays platonic, I'm fine with it because this is the closest dynamic to Jack/Liz from 30 Rock that l've seen, and if anyone's seen that show, you KNOW what I'm talking about. Let me explain.

Jack/Liz were two v complex characters that had so much chemistry but the way their "relationship" worked was so unique in that they were never romantic but they're WAY more than just colleagues/ friends, etc. There was literally an article titled like "why you'll never see this kind of relationship in television again" and ghoulcy has the potential to be that again which is still GREAT! It even goes on to talk about how they're COMPLETE AND POLAR OPPOSITES but the dynamic still works and how they feed off of each other in the only way no other characters can. The "dynamic" is THEIRS and theirs only. Seem familiar?

From what we're getting not just in the Fallout show but from interviews with the actors and creatives involved, we're already getting that special dynamic. However, I must stress that many of the comments and those interviews (imo) are sometimes taken TOO literally. The existing text and subtext of the ship is already abundant and ripe so I feel like not EVERYTHING has to be referred to the ship and the ship only. I know it's mostly funsies but I legit wonder if some of this is taken too seriously to the point of misconstruing an actor's words and getting tunnel vision JUST for the sake of the ship and ship only, in turn cheapening what is already there. Kinda like what I've seen with people having to vilify Barb further with unnecessary inferences to scenes that give her more layers (like questioning her genuine love for Janey and Cooper. She can be loving AND a villain y'all. Both things don't have to be mutually exclusive) EVEN THOUGH SHE IS CLEARLY VILIFIED BY THE SHOW BY THE REVEAL SO WHY MAKE UP STUFF? To "punish" her more?? Apologies but this kinda reads as "I need to prop up my ship further so I MUST degrade the other ship" even though it's again... SUPER UNNECESSARY (I must stress I've seen this on ALL sides of shipping/character stanning. Both sides suck when you engage in this behaviour). Have fun and faith in the strength of your ships (ESPECIALLY if they're not "canon" adjacent)!

Anyway, as I was saying...

Going back to 30 Rock, there's literally a scene in the show where they get married due to shenanigans, they get in a big fight the whole episode and in the end sit down and have the most revealing discussion with a councilor about why they're so much more complex than typical relationship. And another scene where they sleep in the same bed together and addressed why they never hooked up with each other and why that's okay. By the way, I was also a HUGE shipper of these two... But I was fine with how they ended up with because the story of their special relationship that makes them uniquely THEM was clear and concise. This did not stop me from reading fics where they make kissy faces. It is possible to do both and I think some ppl tend to forget this.

I'm not saying this for the antis (don't like what you don't like, but if you harass shippers then you can suck eggs and leave. This applies to shippers to non shippers too btw. Be. Nice.), I'm saying all this because I want shippers to not "despair" if the ship that they've become so invested in doesn't come to fruition (and not go overboard into thinking that writers should listen to whatever audiences want all the time, we've been down this road SO many times, it's terrible. Do we REALLY need to talk about how The Rise of Skywalker turned out the way it did due to unnecessary pressure from the loudest antis/asshats in fandom? I think not). Maybe this is also more towards the younger audience members as a cautionary tale because we old ass millenials have seen and been through this but didn't have the immediacy of social media at our finger tips, so it was kinda easier to not be as reactionary. I don't like playing the "you youngins don't know what it was like" card, but at some points it is just a statement of reality. Some of you are/were LITERALLY too young to have experienced this.

Ultimately, what I'm saying is even if ghoulcy doesn't become "romantic", I'm fine with it as long as they stay within the "something more/beyond definition" dynamic which is ALWAYS refreshing to see. Give us more "what are we"! Give us more "it's complicated"! Give us more "we can't be summarized in neat little boxes"!

As long as they don't end up in the pit of "one dimensional interpretation of the Found Family trope which is somehow only just Familial and in this instance Father-Daughter". Please, I BEG. Nothing wrong for people to like this dynamic, but to immediately categorize this into that box is just... Tiresome. You can make the same arguments about "shipping two living beings together on screen all the time" too for sure... But again it leads to my point of if we're going the platonic route how about we NOT just shove it in the same boring dynamic of Father-Daughter that if you want, can find in multitudes of other forms of existing fictional media.

Tldr; have fun but always remember this is all fictional media in the end where we play with dolls in a sandbox. Just remember to BE. NORMAL. and not forget this and start shitting in it and flinging poo at each other. That goes with relationships with creators of said media too. Do NOT become parasocial and expect everything to be catered to you. The creators want to tell a story THEY came up with in the first place.

LET THEM.

[gauloiseblue]

Despicable Man

(Perv!Graves × Reader)

[Dead Dove: Do Not Eat | Adult Content MDNI]

A continuation of Oral Fixation

TW: power abuse, unsolicited filming, rape threat

A/N: I just watched S1 of The Following (it sucks), and warren kole just infected my brain with mean!Graves. I just have to write it down, or I'll die of brainrot. Again, mind the tags. Don't read it if it's not your cup of tea.

This is the fourth time you hand in your resignation letter, and the third time he rips it to pieces.

"Can I give you some advice?" He said with a sneer, "If you want my attention, you wouldn't get it by writing these letters. You're wasting your time."

A vein pops up on your forehead, and you slam your hands against the table.

"What's wrong with you?" You shouted at him, "It's not a game, Graves. I'm not playing whatever it is you're playing, I'm quitting!"

"Whoa." He lifts his hands in a mocking manner as he leans on his chair, "You talk to your boss like this?"

"You're not my boss." You hissed.

"Legally, I'm still your boss." He pointed out, and you swore you felt your blood boil, "So don't talk to me like that."

"You think I fucking care?" You spat, "You're not my boss anymore because I'm leaving. Sue me all you want, I'm not gonna stay in a company that threw my grievance letters into the trash."

"Watch your mouth." He warned you with a tone that made you freeze. "I can still punish you if I want."

You open your mouth to speak, before you decide against it.

"Where do you think you're going?" He called out when you turned your heel, before striding towards the door.

"I'm leaving." You retorted, voice dripping with venom.

"No you're not." He stated. "Sit down."

"I'm not gonna sit down and listen to your bullshit." You glare as you push down the door handle, "I've had enough of it, I'm leavi—"

Your feet come to a halt when you see a man standing outside the door, blocking your way out. You recognize him from his black mask and athletic build—he's the commander's guard dog, Graves' most loyal bodyguard. You instinctively take a step back, as the man slowly stalks toward you.

You rattle your brain as you try to think of the reason why he's here, and why he locks the door behind while his eyes stay on you. Until you hear a voice from behind—saying the same words you've heard before, only it's darker, more dangerous this time.

"Sit down, (Name)."

Your hands were seized by the man before you could protest. He drags you from the door, and to the large desk where his boss sits. His grip on you is so strong, that it's impossible to escape him. And when he pushes you down to your seat, you lift your head and snarl at the man across the table.

"What's the meaning of this?"

He tilts his chin in a mocking manner, before he rises from his seat and walks round the table. "What's the meaning of this?" He purses his lips as he pretends to think, "I don't know, you tell me."

You jeeringly scoff at his question, "So is this how you take care of your problems? By threatening them until they withdraw from the case?"

"Oh no, not at all, mon cher. In fact, I want to help you."

You look at him as if you're listening to a mad man's ramble, but he only smirks as he continues.

"You see, I've… reviewed all of the accusations that you wrote against me, and I must admit, you're good at using the right terms." He uttered, "But, you forgot one thing. To win a case, you have to have concrete evidence."

When he turns his gaze on you, you feel your blood run cold, as you catch the subtext of his words.

"And the video that you sent as evidence? It doesn't have my face, mon cher. How are you gonna convince them that it's me? That it's my hand that slipped under your skirt, as I cornered you against the counter? Mind you, it's merely a touch, it couldn't be counted as sexual assault."

A satisfied smirk spreads on his face, as he sees resentment begins to fill your eyes, as well as bitter tears.

"You're smart, (Name). I always like that about you. You stubbornly wanted to prove my wrongdoings, you even brought a hidden cam for it. It's a shame the angle was wrong." He leans closer to whisper in your ear, "And it's a shame that no one cares."

Your glare turns dagger as he pulls away from you.

"Now that it didn't work out, you tried to leave the company. Guess what, mon cher? You need my signature for it." You clench your fist when you hear him chuckle, "In the end, you still need me for your escape."

He lets out a derisive 'whoa' when you're thrown back to your seat before you could punch him. You struggle against his bodyguard's grip, while you scream at him.

"Fuck you, Graves. Fuck you and your arse licking dogs."

"Alright," He sighs as he flicks his wrist, "Shut her up."

Your protest soon turns into a muffled shout, as your mouth is covered by a big hand. You wince when the grip on your jaws becomes too tight, and you claw the arm that slings around you from behind.

"Where were we? Oh." He rummages through his pocket, and pulls something up. Your eyes widen as you recognize the two items from the clink of the metals.

"As I told you before, I want to help you. But my service doesn't come cheap." He sneered as he stood in front of you, "You know that, do you?"

You start to thrash against the man's arm, trying to get away from him. But he seizes your hands so easily, and you watch in horror as he locks the handcuffs around them. Leaving one and a half inches of space between your wrists.

"There we go." You saw him smirk, before your vision came to a blur for a second. By the time you realize it, you've stooped on the ground, with a sore pain on your knees.

The man had pushed you down from your seat, and you heard the heavy drag of the chair from behind. You raise your head to protest, but the word dies down the moment you spot the handycam on his hand.

"Say hi, (Name)." He grinned as he pointed the camera at you.

The dark lens reflects your face, wide-eyed, and mouth agape. If a picture could show a thousand words, then it must've captured the paralyzing shock of your stare.

"You're insane." You whispered in disbelief, while he placed the cam on the table.

"You keep saying those words, darling. But do you even know what they mean?" He bends down to check the device, "What's insane for you, (Name)?"

An immediate answer comes up from your thought, but it dies down the moment it lands on your tongue.

"No words to say?" He sneered, "Where'd that attitude of yours have gone, hmm?"

He slowly circles around you, with a hungry flare in his eyes.

"Now, where were we?" You heard him flout, before you flinched at the sudden pat on your head. "Oh, right."

He seizes you by your chin, which makes you shout at the rough treatment. The urge to spat at him comes up to a boiling point, until you see the prominent bulge inside his pants.

"As I was saying, I'll help you get clear evidence for it. My face is already in the video, so the jury will no longer have to guesswork." He said with a smirk, "Of course, it'll become invalid if we're just conversing, right?"

The sound of click snaps you out of shock, and you watch in horror as his belt slips out of the loops.

"It'll be easier for you if you comply. But if you don't, we can always do this the hard way." He spoke in a low tone, as he shoved down his pants, "Open your mouth, or I'll ruin that pretty hole of yours."

[hiskillingjar]

i am so obsessed with ur writing 🩷 this is actually really tame but i feel weird requesting it lol. could i get ren (or anyone really) with a reader who has a small chest (boobs? breasts? tits??). havent felt insecure about them in so long until recently and im spiraling. u can go from there with whatever u want. thank u!!

thankl you!! i've been literally all about boobs lately so....yeah alright!

900+ words, fem mc, chest referred to as breasts and boobs. you know how it goes.

Your entire life had a subtext now, which you were beginning to learn during your imprisonment.

You were watching placidly as Ren put together a new anime figure, his little, pink tongue poking out as he carefully lined up each notch of shiny plastic and pushed them together, all contributing to the elaborate diorama that he had probably spent way too much money on.

You might have rolled your eyes at his childish indulgence, his total lack of awareness as he put together a model of a busty cat-girl trying to hold a towel to her heaving chest, had you not been having a slightly…well, self-conscious moment about your own body.

Because there was that subtext now.

The lingering thought of not being good enough for Ren, so much so that he had to fulfil what you couldn't give him with perverted toys and crudely drawn pornography.

"You don't…really like girls like that, do you?" You mumbled, idly chewing the inside of your cheek.

"Hm? Like what?" Ren asked, not looking up from the task at hand as he slid a miniature plastic towel rack into place on the thick base.

"Like," You sighed and rolled your eyes, almost annoyed at yourself for asking. "This character…do you really think she's that pretty?"

"Yeah, of course I do!" He said, looking up like you were saying the obvious. "She's one of my favourites for a reason, you know, she's a total cutie pie. Like, she's depicted as heavier in the manga, obviously, but I really like that the anime was mostly faithful to her body type and skin tone." He was rambling now, as his eyes went back down to his figure and he smiled even wider. "Cus, ya know, you don't tend to see anime with chubbier girls, let alone anime that merchandisers pick up on...."

"Mph," You looked to the side, embarrassed that you had been so self-conscious to begin with. "R-Right…of course."

"What, are you jealous?" Ren then asked, his golden eyes on yours again and a coy smile on his face

"I'm not jealous!" You said quickly, looking back towards him. "It's just…well, i-it's typical that you'd think like that." You huffed and crossed your arms. "You don't actually care about…well, representation or whatever. You just like girls like that."

"Girls like what?" He grinned again, his fox tail wagging as you stammered and over-explained.

"Like…" Your cheeks flushed. "Big boobs and stuff."

"Mm, that sounds like you're jealous. Jealous over a girl that doesn't even exist, hah!" He barked out a hyena-esque cackle and leaned over his desk, bringing his face closer to yours. "Well, what's wrong with liking curvy girls? Obviously, it's important that Kitten-Chan is heavier, for, like, body positivity stuff or whatever, but…I do just think she's really cute. What's wrong with that, huh?"

"Whatever…" You rolled your eyes again. "Forget I said anything."

"No, no, this is way too cute" Ren laughed, pacing to the other side of his desk, and pressing his chest to yours in a close (and non-consenting) hug. He raised his eyebrows with a smile, looking at you more closely. "You're all flustered and stutter-y. It's pretty fun to tease you like this."

"What are you teasing me for?" You murmured, as his hands drifted down your hips, toying with the tie of your pyjama shorts.

"Because it's cute, and because I want to, duh," Ren replied with another little titter, keening in closer and rubbing his nose against your jaw, down your neck. "And you're such an easy target for it too. I mean, look at you." He leaned in and pressed his mouth to your neck, giving you a quick little nip. "You're even defensive about your boob size~"

"I-!" You yelped at the bite, cheeks flushed and your hands trembling down at your sides. "I'm not…defensive about that..."

Ren then raised his head to look you in the eye, his expression nauseatingly smug and his ears raised high.

"Oh, you're not?" He asked, raising a brow. "Sure is looking like it to me, sweetie…"

He then reached upwards for your chin, lifting your head and holding your gaze as his own narrowed, his expression hot and hungry and dripping with that unspoken subtext between you.

"You have no reason to be self-conscious, you know…" He murmured, the hand on your hip reaching up to your chest, idly pawing at you. "I mean, I like curvy girls, sure, but I like you too." He chuckled again and lowered his lips back to your neck, kissing the spot he nipped as he slid his hand down the front of your tank-top and palmed your breast roughly. "You're the one here, after all."

"You say that like it's a good thing…" You sighed, your hands still trembling from the effort you were putting in not to reach forward and grab his hips like he had to you.

"I think it is…" He replied, running his thumb (his claw) over your swelled nipple, and relishing in the little gasp you let out at the contact, the way you jerked and trembled. "And I think you think so, too."

You bit your lip as he reached forward and pulled the front of your tank down, the barely-there heft of your breasts not enough to keep it rolled down completely.

"Don't be so insecure, sweetie," He crooned, both hands now squeezing and groping at your chest indulgently. "I like your small boobs a lot…they're just so cute."

"Mm," You bit your lip to hide a fuller moan, your face flushed and your eyelids fluttering with pleasure as his claws dragged over your nipples again.

"And so sensitive~"

[hannahssimblr]

Wise behaviour, I decide, is sleeping it off. I pass out in the tent for hours, oblivious to the festival chaos, and wake disoriented and in no better spirits once the sun has dipped beneath the hills. Half awake, I trudge towards the showers and wash my hair and teeth under cold water before wandering off to find someone to hang out with for the night. 

It’s Joe and Kasper I find first, laying into hamburgers that I cannot understand how they can stomach. After what I saw spew out of me today, I’m not sure I’ll ever enjoy solid food again, but I sit with them while they polish them off, finding that I can handle the eating and the finger licking if I completely dissociate and think about the way my palms feel until my mind is free from all thought, and every emotion is vacuumed right out of my being. 

I maintain it for a while, that blank feeling, and when we finally meet with the others to see Foo Fighters at the main stage, I stand there like a ghost on the outskirts of the group while Jen throws me the occasional withering stare. 

“What’s wrong with you?” she whispers, as we try to find a decent place to stand.

I shrug. “Dunno, really.”

“Why are you acting so weird?”

“Am I?”

“Yes.”

“Not trying to.”

“And where were you all day? I texted you like, ten times, probably. It was like getting a grim insight into what it’s like to go out with you.”

“What’s that mean?”

She scoffs, “Please, how you’d disappear for hours when Michelle was trying to get in touch, and reappear with no explanation, like, a day later? No wonder she was paranoid.”

I frown. “Thought you refused to talk to her about our relationship, the same way you did with me.”

And she rolls her eyes, “oh, come on. You really think she didn’t bring it up with me? Endlessly? And you know what? She was right. Not texting her back for a whole day was a really shit thing to do.”

“It was because my phone died. Half the time I couldn’t remember where my charger was.”

“You just didn’t want to talk to her.”

“Sometimes I don’t want to talk, Jen. In fact sometimes it's better for everyone when I don't have to.”

Her face reddens. “Well then, you should say that, instead of just going mute on people. It’s not nice.”

“I said it this morning!” As my voice rises a few decibels, Evie turns to look at me, and I only meet her eyes for a split second before returning my glare to Jen. “I told you I’m not up for talking.”

“Well, fine, but tell me what you were doing today. You look awful.” her hand comes to my face and I knock it away. 

“Stop. Don’t touch me.”

She rears back like I’ve spit at her. “Jude.”

“I just don’t want your hands right in my face.”

She stares at me in outrage. “You're treating me like a criminal for being concerned. I just wanted to spend time with you today, that’s all.”

“Well, look. I’m not always going to be here. You’re going to have to find someone else to hang out with eventually, so you’ll need to stop depending on me for company all the time.”

Tears spring to her eyes. “Oh, my God. You’re being rotten. When you’re like this-”

“Don’t talk to me then.”

“I’m allowed to talk to you. You’re my friend.”

I roll my eyes. “Fine, talk then. Chat away. I'm listening.”

Her chin wobbles, but her eyes harden. “You should be ashamed of yourself, by the way.”

I raise my eyebrows with mock enlightenment. “Oh yeah? Why’s that?”

“Because, whatever about how I feel today, but you’ve confused that sweet girl, okay? I’ve been with her since morning, and she’s devastated that you’ve kissed her and then essentially run away and hid from her like a scared child.”

“Did she say that, Jen, or did you just make it up so I’d feel guilty?”

“That’s the fucking subtext.”

“The subtext, is it? Oh, excuse me. The fucking subtext.”

“You can’t speak to me like that.”

“Christ, I can't say anything, can I?”

“It’s not even about me, by the way. What about Evie? Huh? What about-”

“Oh, my God.” I make a sound, this hollow, frustrated hack like the imitation of a laugh. “Stop hounding me about her, right? I’m sick of it, all day, all the time, begging for details. It’s nothing. It’s meaningless, so just leave me alone.”

“It’s not nothing. I know you well enough to tell when it’s-”

“Jen!”

“Fine.” She marches to join Evie, who, after one more anxious glance in my direction, murmurs something to Jen that I cannot hear. 

“Yeah. I think he’s just in one of his moods.” She snips at volume, flashing evil eyes over her shoulder. “Don’t worry about it. He woke up on the wrong side of the bed. I had to see him like this all the time at school. Just ignore him.”

I scowl at her, and she scowls back even harder before whirling around and pulling Evie into the crowd, and as far away from me as they can possibly get.

Beginning // Prev // Next

Corresponding LG Chapter

[dropthedemiurge]

Some language comments for Gray Shelter [Episode 5], just like I promised!

"Do whatever/however you want to. (literally: 'Do it the way your heart desires') You do things how you want to anyway."

"I'm sorry" - the translation is correct, it's just it's funny how Yoondae's level of apology to his friend he just lashed out at last time + he wants to ask him for HELP, and all he says is: 미안 (mian). The most informal and short way of apologizing possible. He's so teenager-minded still.

Even when he asks "Can I leave my stuff in your dad's warehouse?" it comes out grammatically more of a demand, like 'Let me do that'. Yoondae is talking like someone who has a lot of walls and doesn't reach out to people, he doesn't talk kindly but he's honest and straightforward and he cries easily but he's very angry about it.

I especially love his facial expression, even when he's at his most miserable, he'll make it everyone else's problem, as if being pitiful is the worst thing that could happen to him. "I have no one else I could ask for help but you >:(("

Fun fact about Korean's sentence structure, when you quote someone or express your thoughts, you put your sentence this way: "quoted phrase" and then + "that's what they said/what i thought/etc". So oftentimes, I see Kdramas use that trick when characters say a phrase... and then take it back with "that's someone else's thoughts" or "that's what you thought I'd say, right? LMAO". It's funny how the translators' way of transferring this was using the word "Sike!" xD

"It wasn't a mistake to me." "If it wasn't a mistake, then [what]? Since you started talking [about it], let me ask you. So what if it wasn't a mistake? What do you want to achieve with me?" "Can I do anything about it? In the past or now, you're the one who runs away and avoids me. I asked you, can I make a decision (do I have any choices)?" "You made the move but you want me to decide? Fine, then. Let sleep together once and end it once and for all. Go wash up first. I don't have time, I only left office for a short time."

The way they both care about each other but their dialogues and words are very sharp and bitter almost all the time, especially here, aaaah. That's the contrast that hooked me for all these 5 episodes. Soohyuk doesn't swear but he's talking to Yoondae very harshly and emotionless here, and for Yoondae harsh talk is the default, it's like Soohyuk is lowering his manners to talk on his level, to provoke him (or maybe that's also how he distances himself from the discovery that Yoondae has feelings for him).

And Yoondae is holding back his frustration and tears, but he understands the way such words were aimed to hurt him, so instead of lashing out back at Soohyuk, as he probably wants him to, he swallows and unusually calmly, almost softly says: "Let's talk when you can be honest. Because I will shut up and wait for you."

And it makes Soohyuk stand there in shock and contemplate.

I'll add next scenes in READ MORE since this post is getting long!

Here's the moment when the boss asks their youngest employee to write something more 'trendy' for their marketing text xD It's very true that trends in Korea come and go very quickly, they also love to invent new terms and phrases all the time. Like "MZ slang", there are many phrases, and the one trendy phrase the boss uses as the example is 킹받네 (king-pad-nae) which literally written as 'receive the king' but means "I got angry" - but with a teasing/playful subtext, like friends could say each other 'ah you're so cute, it makes me angry'.

If I'm not wrong, this phrase was widely used like 1-2 years ago and not really in its trendy peak as well right now but kudos to boss to even learning it xD And it's funny how translator chose to (I assume) use "[living in my head] rent-free" phrase as a substitute. Another fun fact, they ended up using some trendy lingo in their ad that translator gave us as "no cap!" but that part of phone msg was so blurry, I couldn't see which exact Korean phrase they ended up using x)

"Hyung, if you have any ask for help, say so. For you, 2 million... No, I'll try to give you until 3 million won in any way."

Can I just say that we had this character for one moment and I'm so not ready to let him go, I want Jeongwan to have his own storyline and everything and he's too sweet and also caring for strangers/his colleagues, and so he stole the spotlight for me xD

Yoondae said there's no food at home. But also, as you can see, there is: beer, water, rice that you can cook in the microwave, kimchi for a side dish and some other microwaved food. According to my Korean friends, typical Korean person (poor like student) can survive if they have rice, kimchi and also ramyeon. That's their the most basic food. Just a fun fact. xD

Also he was on his third can of beer, and he already made a drunken longing call on the verge of tears to Soohyuk, lying about being hurt and bringing trouble just so he'd return home. "Is that okay with you?" - just shoot me, please. :')

"I called [the cleaning service/you] to tell you to stop it [sleeping outside of home]" "Let's have that dinner [that I promised you] today. Wait for me."

After days, Yoondae was ready to give up, he "tricked" Soohyuk to return home just so he could tell him he'll move out and stop pushing any talk. And then, Soohyuk brought up the dinner (the feelings) that he kept avoiding. No wonder Yoondae looked so struck and confused. It just gave him his hopes back (and viewers too, but we probably should've known better with this kind of series haha)

Interesting cultural context: they are getting samgyeopsal - grilled meat, chosen by Soohyuk because Yoongdae said there wasn't anything he wanted to eat. And usually, the youngest one has to set the cutlery and grill meat, out of respect for the seniors. And here we see that Soohyuk is the one choosing the place, menu and even grilling the meat and pouring soju for Yoondae.

Once again, it shows that despite Yoondae's emotions and pleads, he is not mature enough, he is not ready to focus on other people. We know he can't plan his own future, he doesn't know what to do, and we see where their relationship stands now - Yoondae is still more of a burden than an equal partner to Soohyuk, and Soohyuk is more of a parent.

Even when they drink soju (in Korean drinking etiquette usually you don't drink alone, you toast together and drink together), notice how they don't even clink their glasses together, then Soohyuk is the only one drinking and Yoondae wants to follow him but puts the glass back. He's taking a shot later, when Soohyuk grills the meat again. They are totally unsynchronized at this point of their lives, and it's painful to watch.

"I said he [my father] was dead because that's the truth/reality for me. There was no other [hidden] meaning. I didn't plan to lie to you."

"I moved out completely. If I don't organize my life starting from doing this, then I don't think I'll be able to live like all the other [normal] people."

The fact that Yoondae started thinking about improving his life (the word 'organizing'), immediately made Soohyuk stop in surprise. So he started asking what does the normal life like others mean to him, hopeful to find that equal adult footing from Yoondae... but Yoondae's thoughts stopped there. And Soohyuk offered his own goal and life meaning: "to have a place to go back to, that's enough for me".

Here's when Yoondae thoughtfully agreed with him: "It's important to have a home", and took the meat tongs from Soohyuk, saying how high-maintenance he is. Yoondae embraced that realization, he took the responsibility (even a small cultural gesture) and even though Yoondae nagged him, Soohyuk smirked. Because it wasn't a completely hopeless situation. And Yoondae proved it, by saying how eating like this and going home together is his normal life as well. (and yet they were still unsynchronized until the very end! we can't have happy ending yet)

AND HERE IS WHERE I HAVE TO MAKE A SECOND POST! Because tumblr only allows 30 images in one, and I can't stop screenshotting the last conversation so I'm going to make another post that you can find in 'gray shelter comments' or 'dropthemeta' tags (upd. or here's the link to the post!)^^

[charcubed]

I NEEEED people—especially those with unfathomably large platforms???—to start doing just a tiny bit of internal evaluation before they log onto a blue website and say “I don’t want these queer characters to fuck in canon” or “I’d be fine if these characters never kissed again” or whatever.

This is a post about Good Omens and the prospect of Aziraphale and Crowley potentially having sex in season 3. It's a response to a tweet that I'm crossposting, but let it be known the above statement and this topic applies broadly across multiple fandoms too.

But anyway, in regards to Good Omens specifically:

I am seeing this take that essentially boils down to "Canon has now made it clear that these characters want to have sex with each other through subtext (i.e. Aziraphale and the ox), but I don’t want that to reach narrative completion because the idea of them having sex makes me uncomfortable or isn’t my personal preference” and it is, to put it mildly and delicately, A Very Bad Take.

This is rhetorical (and I do not expect or particularly want an answer), but: explain to me how and why queer characters who are unavoidably visibly queer (aka 2 "man-shaped beings") fucking on screen wouldn’t be a net positive, especially when you can indicate how canon has set it up.

Presumably, some people say things like this because ~they want to see them as visibly ace.~ Okay. But by some of these people’s own admission, there IS more evidence in canon now to indicate these characters crave sex with each other (vs arguing otherwise)... yet people would rather that be ignored/erased all for the sake of them feeling comfortable or feeling better about what canon shows or doesn’t show explicitly??

I’m sorry, but—speaking as an ace person, to be clear—your personal preferences for the story shouldn’t / don’t affect anything here. There’s too much in this.

Yeah, I understand on a personal level not having “representation.” I almost never see myself or my unique experiences and identity reflected in stories. And yet, I also understand that that doesn’t change any story or the world in which we live. Things like this are not said in a vacuum.

Any queer characters having sex on screen IS a net positive. It is rare and impactful, and openly calling for or hoping for otherwise when canon points to its potential is a detrimental alliance with purity culture, whether intentionally or accidentally. Because we live in a Goddamn society!

Who knows (other than Neil Gaiman) whether Aziraphale and Crowley ARE going to fuck on international TV. None of us do! But the subtext right now blatantly says they’re starving for it. And you don’t have to like the prospect of that, but honestly? We SHOULD get to see it play out. There’s no truly legitimate reason we shouldn’t ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Whether you "prefer" it or not.

And my ultimate hot take is… if someone balks at the idea of that or doesn’t understand the importance of it, despite even seeing the subtext… then they should perhaps unpack that? Just a thought.

Truly the way fandoms are managing to hit either “subtext doesn’t count :/ ” or “let’s keep it to subtext so it’s ‘open to interpretation’ :) ” nowadays depending on what corner one visits is MADDENING. Whiplash-inducing. Surreal. And so much nonsense you can’t pick where to start.

So! I do genuinely hope I'm not kicking off discourse but I felt this Needed To Be Said (and on more than one site). Because posts like “even if they never kiss again, we’ve won <3 “ make me want to be like…

These characters are YEARNING. Do not doom them and us to it. For once, we can reach for the stars and maybe–against all odds–pull them down. Embrace it!

---

[Update: after more discourse has occurred, I have somewhat elaborated on this further, from the POV of the significance of the queer themes in Good Omens and more specifically how they center illicit pleasure/desire]

[writterings]

hmm i wasn't going to post this but im seeing responses on that poll i dont agree with so now im posting this

tbh i understand that for some people, picking up on social subtext and unspoken cues is hard but at the same time i do think it's a valuable form of communication that shouldn't be disregarded, especially because i don't think it's healthy to have to communicate directly every single one of your wants and needs to a person who you've known for a while.

like, after a few years i do genuinely think some things should be anticipated without the other person having to state directly what they are because this anticipation shows 1) that you listen to the person 2) shows that you also pick up on things about them without them having to say anything, meaning you are curious about them and are considerate of them and 3) a lot of people cannot and will not always be honest in communicating their wants and needs and, sure, some may argue that's the other person's problem but oftentimes it does not come from a place of malice but a consideration for your feelings -- i.e. they value your wants and needs above theirs and thus don't want to voice their wants and needs because you seem pretty happy accepting them just doing whatever you want -- which, imo, also shows a lack of consideration for them. and sure, that's "technically" not your problem but do you care about this person? are you an advocate for mental health, even when the person shows symptoms you don't like? cause that's what's happening here.

and this obviously is not one size fits all and if you think your relationships would not be able to function like this, that's perfectly okay and you are right in a relative sense. i just find that this is how a lot of relationships function and i personally could never be in a relationship where i have to constantly communicate every single need i have (like, i.e., if i just worked a full day and have told you i'm exhausted, that should be communication enough that i don't want to be asked to go to the store with you or whatever. and again, if this isn't your communication style, that's fine -- it just means people like me and people like you probably shouldn't date.)

[aa-400]

malevolent and the queer-coded villain trope

*disclaimer please respect the #masked tag. while i'm putting these thoughts out into the ether they're not really meant for harlan to see as i don't want to be put on blast for criticising the show. this is not me attempting to malign this podcast or its creator or to go "it's bad and problematic actually so don't listen to it" because that's a frankly horrible and unhelpful way of engaging with media and the world at large. i'm certainly not going to stop enjoying malevolent wholeheartedly or supporting harlan in his creative endeavours. this is not an accusation, it's an observation.

i've been thinking about the queer-coded villain trope in a separate context recently, but something clicked for me with part 34. horror (and other genre fiction but let's focus on the relevant genre here) has a tradition of placing queer elements within the subtext. it's a means of Othering and used to separate the protagonist from whatever evil entity they're up against in the story, be it man or creature, and where the the tropes of the monstrous queer and the queer-coded villain are born from.

a brief second disclaimer. i'm a queer villain and queer horror enjoyer and here to reclaim every single queer-coded villain and monster ever created but acting like the trope doesn't have a problematic, negative history is a sucky way of engaging with and examining a piece of media so let's not do that.

aaanyway, to the actual meat of this post: i believe malevolent reiterates the monstrous queer / queer-coded villain tropes however unintentionally and they go unexamined in the text.

first, we have kayne. flamboyant, exaggerated kayne who calls arthur—and to an extent john—pet names. i don't really think i have to go into detail for people to know what i'm getting at.

then we have larson. yeah, larson. in particular, i'm referring to the scene where arthur wakes up in the larson estate and his clothes have been removed. larson approaches arthur while he's in bed, vulnerable, and while there's not anything untoward happening in the text, it's still very ... master of the house and the gothic heroine, for lack of a better comparison. actually, think of count dracula and jonathan harker in castle dracula — the dynamic is very reminiscent of that, and dracula is a famously queer coded monster in part for that whole thing.

and finally, there's the butcher. a predator—a serial killer—obsessed with chasing arthur down. and boy did part 34 lay it down thick. i mean, he hears peggy gordon in his head when he hunts arthur and sings it to him when he's come to get him. it's a song about a man's unrequited love and it's pretty obvious the butcher's meant to be the man while arthur is peggy, who slighted him when he escaped from the butcher back in the train. and then as if that wasn't obvious enough he has a line about falling in love with his victims. "it's dedication, devotion, a bond. (laugh) sounds a bit like falling in love, doesn't it? maybe i suppose you could say i've fallen in love with each and every one of them. with each and every animal." which is then followed by more arthur-specific obsessing.

harlan has explicitly stated that arthur isn't queer rep, so unintentionally what's happening in the text is that the heterosexual protagonist is pitted against these queer-coded malevolent entities in a way that's pretty text book.

none of these characters i used as examples are written to be explicitly queer, but the coding is certainly there. again, i'm not saying harlan is a secret queerphobe who is putting this subtext in malevolent intentionally—i can with confidence say that we can safely assume that isn't the case! but, like i said when i was prefacing this post, queer subtext in the monstrous and villainous have a recorded history within horror. it's really easy to reiterate tropes like that if you create within a genre without actively examining your work and its wider context, and i think that's what happening here.

so what was the point of this post? there isn't much of one, really, i just made an observation and wanted to share because i believe in and enjoy examining the things you love critically. and i do love malevolent, with its queer-coded villains and all. i'm not calling for anything to change in the story, or accusing harlan or anyone else of anything; i'm just having thoughts about the wider scope of horror media and where malevolent fits within it and i'm using a cda and queer theory oriented brain to do it.