#rop speculation

[saurongorthaur9]

The funny thing is, even if a kiss happens between Hal and Gal, the antis will say that “it's not romantic”, “they're not in love”, “it doesn't mean anything”, “it's manipulation” and blah blah blah

I have noticed some recent conflict in the fandom over what exactly Sauron feels for Galadriel, and I don't want to insert myself into any of that. That being said, I do agree that what Sauron feels for Gal is complicated. I think there is love and there is obsession and probably other things that can't be boiled down nice and neatly into any one emotion.

With that preface, Tolkien actually talks about how Sauron's underlying driving motive is love. Love of order. Love of beauty. Love of perfection. He even says that in the beginning, these things were Sauron's virtue. Morgoth was a being driven by a nihilistic hatred for all things that he could not control and corrupt, but Sauron was driven by passionate love for Middle-earth and the things therein, and this was actually the core difference between them.

Of course, though we know that Sauron's love (as Mairon) started out as something good, it was quickly twisted into obsession to control what he loved. And eventually, when he was not allowed to control it, it twisted into hatred just as passionate as his love had been.

I love that we're actually getting a microcosm of that with Sauron and Galadriel, and I think how Sauron feels about Galadriel is very Tolkienian, given the above passages from "Morgoth's Ring" that I referenced. I think at the beginning, Sauron-as-Halbrand's love for Galadriel was actually pretty genuine and as pure as it could be for a being like him. He connected with her (genuinely, I believe), he admired her, he found her beautiful, and he saw a kindred spirit within her. And I think those were all pretty wholesome feelings.

However, we've already seen those feelings begin to warp into obsession to possess and control. We saw it even by the end of Season 1, when we saw how manipulative and angry he got when Gal rejected his marriage/partnership proposal. We're definitely seeing it in Season 2 with his creepy, possessive behavior towards Mirdania in the last episode.

I think over the course of the series, we'll see Sauron's love become a darker and darker thing, more and more obsessive, more possessive than a genuine connection: mirroring how his love for Middle-earth fell into something dark and twisted. By the very end of the series, I could even see Sauron coming to hate Galadriel - much as he comes to hate Middle-earth - because he can't possess or control her, but I think it will still be an obsessive hatred that is, in part, a love gone terribly wrong.

All this is to say, I think the best characters are complex characters. Is Sauron in love? Yes, I think he is. Is he also manipulating Gal? Yes, I think he is. Is his love something dark and controlling and possessive? Yes, I think it is. These are all things that can co-exist. The one thing that I do vehemently disagree with is that "it doesn't mean anything" or that Sauron and Galadriel's connection doesn't mean anything to Sauron. I think it means everything to Sauron. And if there is a kiss, I think it will be an extension of that. At least, I would hope so.

[dwarveslikeshinythings]

My one wild theory for Rings of Power S2:

Either Adar OR Sauron knows where Celeborn is, and this information will drop at a critical moment.

[valar-did-me-wrong]

Sauron will get Adar's sword and Morgoth's crown, but Galadriel already has Nenya on when she attacks Sauron (shown in bts segment), so... maybe an injured Adar will give the ring back to Galadriel who will choose... to heal him, guided by Nenya?

Maybe Adar will wear the ring as a necklace, hidden, like Elrond did... which could explain why Sauron doesn't get it...

Galadriel saw Adar cry, it has to mean something. Maybe she sees how Nenya can heal even a corrupted Elf, which could give her more courage to face Sauron if she wears Nenya? 🥺

Thankyou for this ask!!

(Interestingly I was gonna post about Adar's fate today anyway after just now learning something about JD & Patrick that has made me believe Adar might actually live this season after all so I'll add that theory of mine to this answer too!)

But 1st, I had not noticed Adar's sword in Sauron's hand so omgggggg this is hugeeee!! And to add Galadriel with Nenya in this scenario, it can mean so many things!!

Adar can give her the ring on his own after loosing the crown & his sword to sauron

She could take those off him in a separate clash right before her & Sauron's meeting

Sauron can take it from him when he takes his sword and crown then give it to Galadriel as a manipulation move

In almost all cases, it seems Adar's in for a loosing battle & boy am I worried AF for our daddy & his identity crisis!!

But I just cannot give up hope of Adar living you know.. it's some sort of disease I seem to have in regards to this character!

Because to me, you are SO right mentioning that scene of Galadriel witnessing the Uruk funeral! It HAS to mean something!!

So so many Adar scenes this season seem purposefully added! Like the parallels between him & Galadriel mourning the dead, the parallels of sowing seeds, the Arondir-Adar conflict (which seems unfinished tbh) & the whole play on Light & Dark.

One can say all this was to make his death impactful (add Nenya induced healing here too if you are a believer), which would have been fair had they not kept on adding more & more layers of mystery to his onion-ass identity too!

Twice they make him name drop silm characters in E7 alone; each of those name's rights must have cost THOUSANDS of dollars! So all this building up of mystery; one might rationally assume, must resolve before his death right?! Either this season or in season 3..

Which brings me to my theory on why he might somehow survive to season 3:

I found out today that JD & Patrick are mentees of the Hollywood 'Mystery Box' dude (about which I've heard many angry ramblings but as I've never seen the guy's work myself I can't choose a side)

This is important to my delulu ass rn because the whole 1st season of ROP had the Mystery Box of "Who is Sauron" with the little box of "Who is the stranger".

Now in 2nd season the Mystery Box has been "Who is Stranger" carrying forward from season 1, & the little box is what they have successfully manufactured in these later episodes, the mystery of "Who is Adar".

I believe they will open the stranger's identity mystery box in E8 & will carry forward the tantalizing box of Adar's identity for season 3 to be the main Mystery Box!

(I'm not counting Dark wizard's mysterious identity here as an option rn because they haven't built it or him up as much, maybe it'll be season 3's little box?!)

So wether Galadriel saves Adar on screen or not, whether Adar heals with Nenya or not, Adar still might live!! There are so so so many interesting things they have done with him, it just doesn't make sense to me to waste all that potential in a death rather than use it to maintain hype for the next season!

So in my delulu mind Adar might loose to sauron his sword, Morgoth's crown, Nenya, his children & even his Uruk-ness but he isn't dying just yet!

I hope my ramblings made any sense 🙉🙊

[gelertrook]

I always find it hilarious how threatened Tumblr gets over their "ships" in a media that's actively coming out. The truth is the writers are almost never thinking about what "ships" people want to see. Mostly because the show was already written, made, produced, and aired. All this is to say I felt zero romantic connotations within Elrond and Galadriels kiss in the recent episode. To me, its been made very clear that the elves are a very touchy race. You can see how Galadriel holds Arondir's face later in the episode and they've met a few scant times. Yeah I can acknowledge that the writers are humans and may have a human perception of intimacy when writing it, but maybe not! That aside my personal headcanon is that Gal and El are queer-platonic. I don't think mouth to mouth kissing is par for the course for them, hence the "Forgive me," (I also see it as an ask for consent), but I don't think intimacy is foreign to them or even all elves.

[saurongorthaur9]

Boromir is another great example of a Tolkien character who falls to temptation but repents of it and redeems himself through his brave actions and sacrifice. Thematically, it's perfectly in line with Tolkien's world and the morality of Middle-earth. However, like you, I don't have strong expectations that they will go that far with Galadriel. But I don't think anything about it would be out of line if they did.

also while i do not count on it i disagree that having galadriel temporarily succumb to saurons temptation is against canon, certainly not thematically.

lotr literally ends with frodo succumbing to the temptation. they still win because frodo took it as far as anyone possibly could and they end up "saved" by gollum and what is strongly implied to be an act of Eru.

so having the protag fall to temptation partially but still manage to climb back up and triumph would be in line with it. believing that galadriel cannot be the one to do that goes back to the purity culture and that false virgin mary image of hers.

[saurongorthaur9]

As we get closer to the end of S2, I'm going more insane over who the surprise kiss is going to involve and whether they are going to go You Know Where. I keep playing the process of elimination game with any character who might share a scene with Galadriel at this point, and I just can't conceive who it could possibly be other than Sauron.

Elrond? It would come out of nowhere, they've said in interviews that Galadriel and Elrond's relationship is platonic, and there'd be the weird "kissing my future MIL" aspect of it.

Celebrimbor? Again, it would come out of nowhere, and Charles Edwards said in an interview that they aren't going with the "Celebrimbor had an unrequited crush on Galadriel" direction.

Gil-galad? Once again, out of nowhere, and it would just be weird and uncomfortable?

Arondir (since we know he shows up for the Battle of Eregion)? Unless Galadriel is his rebound for losing Bronwyn, it would make no sense and they've barely interacted in the series.

A minor elf character (Camnir, Mirdania, etc)? Again, it would come totally out of nowhere, and if it's significant enough for Morfydd to mention it, I really think it'll be with a main character. Plus, where would they go with that, since we know she eventually ends up with Celeborn one way or another?

Speaking of which...Celeborn? Still not 100% convinced that he might not make a very surprise appearance, but it just doesn't seem to fit with the "shocking" description nor the fact that some reviewers who have seen it threw an absolute fit over it apparently.

Adar? This is the one contender that I could see making *some* sense (not as much as Sauron though). There's definitely chemistry there, if not of any romantic sort (as of now), and we know they're going to have some big scenes together in the upcoming episodes. It would fall into the "shocking" category for sure, and I could see lorebro reviewers losing it over it for the same reasons as they would over Sauron. However, right now, I don't see it fitting into the story anywhere, plot-wise or thematically. But right now, it would make more sense than any of the prior possibilities.

Am I crazy that this just leaves Sauron? The character who they have spent two seasons establishing a connection with her and emphasizing that they are still very hung up over each other? The character who, whether you ship them or not, she has the deepest and best chemistry with? The character with whom a kiss would fit thematically (touch the darkness, etc)? Plus, I can think of multiple likely scenarios that it could occur during (a vision, as part of a Galadriel corruption arc if they go there, etc). And it would definitely be shocking and send lorebros into absolute conniption fits.

Like, I know I'm biased because I want it to be them, but truly is there anyone else it would make any sort of sense with? Tell me I'm not crazy (or tell me I am and explain what you're guessing/seeing that I'm not)?

[valar-did-me-wrong]

Delulu me wants Galadriel and Adar to both escape Eregion together after Sauron takes over the Orcs with the Nine in his possession -- live to fight another day 🥺

Firstly,

I too am absolutely delulu & unwilling to accept Adar's death untill I don't see it with my teary eyes on the screen as I scream & then spend the rest of my life planning how to torment JD & Patrick!

If Adar gets healed by Nenya/Galadriel in some way, shape or form then your wish might actually get answered!

Or he might escape not with Galadriel but with orcs & then S3 is just orcs slowly abandoning him & eventually falling into Sauron's clutches again!

There are so many better, interesting & juicier ways of ending E8 than simply killing Adar off & I hope hope hope Amazon has seen the potential in Adar!!

He can be so many things in coming seasons!

A moral dilemma, a somewhat healed Uruk who belongs nowhere, a failed leader, a fully healed mystery box identity, an orc leader who canonically fights for the good side in Battle Of Last Alliance..

I bet many more things can be added here because he's got so much potential & such an amazing actor behind him!!

Let's just keep our prayer circle active my friend & hope for the best! 🤞🏽😭

[testyqwcde]

Morgoth's crown melted into One Ring?

Just read this theory on Reddit and I think it can work out. It may explain as to why the One ring is so powerful. Unlike the Elven rings made of the dagger (with Mairon's involvement) that embody the light and healing energy, the One ring is a symbol of corruption and destruction (Sauron's field of work). Once Sauron falls into darkness completely by binding himself to the ring, he will kill this tiny Mairon's part in himself. It means there will be no longer of Mairon in the Elven rings and they will be ruled by the One as the others.

Furthermore, the Crown has Sauron and Galadriel's blood on it and if melted, it will just coax them together bound by darkness (crown itself=darkness).

This plot twist can give further prominence and explanation to Galadriel's desire to have the One ring as to embrace her other self.

Sauron will bind himself to the ring while Galadriel will keep resisting until she passes the final test and departs to Valinor.

It's been already implied that the Crown is something that both

divides them, serving as a barier between them (good vs evil) and

binds them in the darkness as they both have it in them.

PS: it doesn't make sense to have 2 objects with the same magical power in the hands of the same villain. They will have to get rid of the crown anyway.

Thanks for the gifs :)

https://martanis.tumblr.com/

https://tolkiensource.tumblr.com/

[saurongorthaur9]

Obviously, Annatar needs a shirtless scene next season. For purely scientific reasons.

Asking the important questions: do you think Annatar still has Halbrand's hairy chest?

[apoloadonisandnarcissus]

Sauron new physical form for Season 3?

I kind on the fence with this one.

When he [Sauron] felt himself to be secure he sent emissaries to Eriador, and finally, in about the year 1200 of the Second Age, came himself, wearing the fairest form that he could contrive. (Unfinished Tales)

This “fairest form” Sauron could conjure up is Annatar; which we already saw in Season 2.

Overall, Tolkien doesn’t gives us much physical descriptions of his characters. We also don’t know for sure if Sauron took on a new fair form after Annatar or not.

We already saw Sauron in Annatar form wearing a bit of military regalia (breastplate), for when he takes command over the Orc armies and fights Galadriel in 2x08:

About Sauron’s “fair forms” in the Second age:

“[…] he [Sauron] could assume many forms, and for long if he willed he could appear noble and beautiful, so to deceive all but most wary” (The Silmarillion)

“In his earlier incarnation he [Sauron] was able to veil his power (as Gandalf did) and could appear as a commanding figure of great strength of body and supremely royal demeanour and countenance.” (Tolkien Letter 246)

In 2x06, Ar-Pharazôn sees a vision of the Eye of Sauron and Halbrand, when he touches the Palantír. This is the physical form of Sauron, Ar-Pharazôn is familiar with.

Can this mean the Halbrand form will return in Season 3? Possibly.

From what we know from Tolkien legendarium, Sauron might take on this form, again, when he allows himself to get captured by Ar-Pharazôn, because we are told that Sauron humbles himself before the Númenórean king. And what better way to appear humble than to take on the form of a “low man”?

This would also make sense with Sauron’s description in Númenor:

Upon that ship which was cast the highest and stood dry upon a hill there was a man, or one in man’s shape, but greater than any even of the race of Númenor in stature… And it seemed to men that Sauron was great; though they feared the light of his eyes. To many he appeared fair, to others terrible; but to some evil. (History of Middle-earth)

However, I’m not sure Sauron will return to the Halbrand form before this event (which will probably happen in Season 3 finale). Mostly due to this description from Sauron from the War of Sauron and the Elves (Season 3):

Now Sauron's lust and pride increased, until he knew no bounds, and he determined to make himself master of all things in Middle-earth, and to destroy the Elves, and to compass if he might, the downfall of Númenor. He brooked no freedom nor any rivalry, and he named himself Lord of the Earth. A mask he still could wear so that if he wished he might deceive the eyes of Men, seeming to them wise and fair. But he ruled rather by force and fear, if they might avail; and those who perceived his shadow spreading over the world called him the Dark Lord and named him the Enemy; and he gathered under his government all the evil things of the days of Morgoth that remained on earth or beneath it, and the Orcs were at his command and multiplied like flies." (The Silmarillion)

I wouldn’t exactly describe the “Halbrand form” as “wise and fair”. He’s also considered a “low man”, and we are told Sauron takes rule over Mordor by fear and force (military), not necessarily by his usual methods of manipulation and deception.

These are the “Dark Years”, when Sauron starts his conquest of Middle-earth, and he’s now Lord of Mordor and has control over the Orc legions (R.I.P. Adar). The Black Gate and Barad-dûr get built. Sauron wants to show off his power, not conceal it. Every other character is now aware that he has returned and what his goal is (conquer all of Middle-earth). He’s out in the open.

Sauron gives Nine rings of power to Men; warriors, kings and sorcerers. From the legendarium, we know one goes to a man from Rhûn (who will be known as Khamûl, the second in command of the Nazgûl, after the Witch King of Angmar); three to great Númenóreans lords, and the other five ring-bearers are unknown. He gifts the Nine as promises of power, so Sauron most likely didn’t conceal his true identity from them, especially when he’s securing dominion over Middle-earth.

Taking all of this into consideration, I’m inclined to think Sauron might keep the Annatar form until the end of Season 3, and then change into Halbrand to get captured and brought to Númenor as a prisoner (Season 4).

[laurinque]

Speculation: if Círdan who is the oldest of the elves we’ve met and who once lived in Cuiviénen met Adar would he recognize him?

[90shaladriel]

I wonder if Galadriel seeing the great wave destroying Númenor through the Palantir would at all be foreshadowing for future seasons of Rings of Power for herself directly?

Would that be interesting divergence for Galadriel to actually be IN Númenor during the Akallabêth? I know this is unlikely but we have no idea what Galadriel will really be doing in later seasons. In the books Tolkien couldn't make up his mind and then doesn't mention her at all really in the War of the Last Alliance.

Could her hunt for Sauron lead her to chasing him to Númenor?

In the Palanatir scene we hear:

Tar-Miriel: It is Númenor 's future you saw

Galadriel: Palantiri show many visions. Some that will never come to pass.

Tar-Miriel: It has already come to pass. The vision begins with your arrival

Clearly Galadriel's arrival is connected with the vision of Númenor 's downfall and that's nowhere in the books but makes a nice connection of Galadriel to Númenor fate. We assume ROP will depict the downfall of Númenor and not give them a happy ending, so would Galadriel be tied up in that?

If she is there during the downfall. How could she be saved? A Great Eagle? Another raft?

[eowyn7023]

Fiction Summary:

What happens when Sauron and Adar meet again in Mordor, at the start of Season 2 of Rings of Power? Does Adar welcome him with open arms? Does Adar submit, sulkily? Does Adar resist him successfully, at first? Does Adar kill him again? My imagination ran riot. Each chapter is a distinct way things could possibly go. The correct answer to what happens, to quote Neil Gaiman, is "Wait and see."

Chapter 1: A Dreadful Reunion

Summary: Adar had hoped that Lord Mairon — the one the Elves called Sauron — would have no interest in Mordor and Adar's family of Uruks. He is miserable to find out that he was wrong.

[saurongorthaur9]

I wonder if in-universe, any of the characters are going to comment on Sauron's hair-bow or if everyone is going to just pointedly ignore the fact that the literal Dark Lord of Middle-earth is walking around with his hair done up like a princess.

[self-destructinganimal]

S3 time skip?

In light of the casting call news (which may or may not be RoP, but it seems close enough to speculate), do we think there will be a time skip in S3? On one hand we've got the one scene with Gerda and Gamli in the stone masks where they seem no older than 5/7ish and the ages they are casting for are listed as 15 and 17. So a ten year time skip could be a possibility. I actually don't mind this as I think it gives the writers the ability to drop right into the action, build up Rivendell, and give Sauron more time to establish connections with men.

On the other hand the timeline has been condensed from the beginning, and they may have wanted the kids older for narrative purposes. Since the one scene we see is very short and you never actually see them well, it would be easy to get away with just writing them slightly older and most fans wouldn't really notice the difference.

What are we thinking?

[valar-did-me-wrong]

Ok, but I dont think this season is the right one for Adar to die...It would be a bit rushed if he dies by betrayl of the orcs and them switching sides to Sauron...Especialy since Sauron also still has to spend time in Numenor which propaply will happen in s3...So Middel Earth still needs its residentual Bad Guy which could/should be Adar and his Orcs...Maybe he grows paranoid and keeps on searching for Sauron and that leads to conflict with the Orcs and everybody else...And maybe more and more of the Orcs that know him personaly will die so when Sauron returns he has the perfect combination of (paranoid) Adar who loses (has lost) control of the situation and Orcs that only know him as their Boss (and at some point was their father)...so Sauron just has to swoop in and take control...

Omg I'm so sorry this got lost in my asks for so long!!

Now, let me tell you my friend that everywhere I go I hear the same thing you said here that "this is not the right season for Adar to die"

It's one of those universal things rn! Sam plays him in such an amazing way that it's almost impossible to not get caught in his magnetism. So yes killing Adar off (by orcs or by Sauron) might bring his narrative to a full (albeit small) circle but it'll not be the smartest move by Amazon!

I also agree with you that, realistically orcs shouldn't side with Sauron instantly after Adar is removed, but sadly I see a lot of people mentioning that it actually might happen in E8!

I'm a bit appalled by this decision of building orcs up to this more than just pawns status in 2 seasons & then instantly turning them into pawns again!

I'd rather hope; as you mentioned, that Adar survives S2 somehow (either healed by Nenya or not) & season 3 is basically repercussions of his hastey war, where he slowly looses his hold on most orcs & we see the orcs slowly get pulled back into Sauron's clutches!

(someone also mentioned that in the end Adar can be left with a small band of orcs faithful to him who fight in the Battle Of Last Allience on the side of elves against sauron; which would be VERY canon & SOOOOO COOOL to watch!)

As for Middle Earth needing another bad guy while Sauron is in Numenor, I am not really sure if that storyline is coming in s3 or if it is a S4 storyline..

(I can go absolutely delulu here & mention that Bear did post a pic of the book Fall of Numenor today, & though the caption says its totally unrelated but I cannot help but think maybe he's trying to pull a Taylor Swift on us?! Is it apparent yet that I've lost ALL my mind over Adar's fate??)

All in all.. I agree, you agree, your neighbour agrees, my grandmother agrees & even some haters agree that Adar just shouldn't die this season!! And I guess Sam must sleep good these days knowing he absolutely won over not only the fandom but it's critics too!!