#rop speculation

[haladriel]

What was the purpose of Sauron stabbing Galadriel with Morgoth’s crown?

I suspect I could, and will, talk about this all year. But, aside from the possessiveness, the ownership, the sexual energy, the really messed up declaration of love and/or obsession that it is…

I think it strengthens the ósanwë (mind speech).

Ósanwë is ‘an inherent ability that all Ainur and Incarnates possess, however the power is lessened by having a body or hröa, so it is generally weaker for Elves and especially for Men’:

A mind can only be communicated to with ósanwe if it is open (sanwe-latya, "thought opening, telepathy"). Any mind can be willed closed, and this is a barrier that cannot be overcome by anything or anyone, not even Melkor applying all his power and will on a mind could do so. The ability can be strengthened through various means: from affinity between the persons communicating, urgency on the part of the person sending the thought, or their authority lending effectiveness, allowing thought to pass through bodies more easily.

— ösanwé, Tolkien Gateway

What if this moment, before he tells her he would have had the whole of Middle-earth kneeling before her light, is a silent conversation between them?

What if this is the moment when Galadriel knows she has been infected by his darkness in a way she will never be rid of?

And what, my beloveds, did they say?

[saurongorthaur9]

As we get closer to the end of S2, I'm going more insane over who the surprise kiss is going to involve and whether they are going to go You Know Where. I keep playing the process of elimination game with any character who might share a scene with Galadriel at this point, and I just can't conceive who it could possibly be other than Sauron.

Elrond? It would come out of nowhere, they've said in interviews that Galadriel and Elrond's relationship is platonic, and there'd be the weird "kissing my future MIL" aspect of it.

Celebrimbor? Again, it would come out of nowhere, and Charles Edwards said in an interview that they aren't going with the "Celebrimbor had an unrequited crush on Galadriel" direction.

Gil-galad? Once again, out of nowhere, and it would just be weird and uncomfortable?

Arondir (since we know he shows up for the Battle of Eregion)? Unless Galadriel is his rebound for losing Bronwyn, it would make no sense and they've barely interacted in the series.

A minor elf character (Camnir, Mirdania, etc)? Again, it would come totally out of nowhere, and if it's significant enough for Morfydd to mention it, I really think it'll be with a main character. Plus, where would they go with that, since we know she eventually ends up with Celeborn one way or another?

Speaking of which...Celeborn? Still not 100% convinced that he might not make a very surprise appearance, but it just doesn't seem to fit with the "shocking" description nor the fact that some reviewers who have seen it threw an absolute fit over it apparently.

Adar? This is the one contender that I could see making *some* sense (not as much as Sauron though). There's definitely chemistry there, if not of any romantic sort (as of now), and we know they're going to have some big scenes together in the upcoming episodes. It would fall into the "shocking" category for sure, and I could see lorebro reviewers losing it over it for the same reasons as they would over Sauron. However, right now, I don't see it fitting into the story anywhere, plot-wise or thematically. But right now, it would make more sense than any of the prior possibilities.

Am I crazy that this just leaves Sauron? The character who they have spent two seasons establishing a connection with her and emphasizing that they are still very hung up over each other? The character who, whether you ship them or not, she has the deepest and best chemistry with? The character with whom a kiss would fit thematically (touch the darkness, etc)? Plus, I can think of multiple likely scenarios that it could occur during (a vision, as part of a Galadriel corruption arc if they go there, etc). And it would definitely be shocking and send lorebros into absolute conniption fits.

Like, I know I'm biased because I want it to be them, but truly is there anyone else it would make any sort of sense with? Tell me I'm not crazy (or tell me I am and explain what you're guessing/seeing that I'm not)?

[rey-jake-therapist]

I know my mind is broken when I laughed at that poetic and romantic One Ring description, and could only imagine Sauron channelling all of his obsession and unrequited love and lust for Galadriel into the One Ring. No wonder Gollum lost his mind, and Frodo his will to live; they had Sauron talking about Galadriel’s hair and whining about his blue b*lls 24/7! 🤣

HAHAHAHAHAHA behzjejjdjdj

[shady-swan-jones]

Finale theory: what if the black crown is for his-

!!Spoilers for 2x04 and the final trailer!!

In the vision he lifts the crown of morgoth from the rock, but what if he doesn't wear it himself? It's the first time he sees her after calling to her through the rings, now Galadriel is in front of him, eager to eviscerate the darkness he holds. Ready to kill him.

But he's not all darkness and she's not all light. Her alliance with Adar taught her that Sauron is vulnerable too. They are inverted mirrors of each other.

Maybe it's a last ditch effort to get her to his side. Uphold the promise of ruling beside him. Make her his queen.

He places the crown on her head.

Visions engulf her. A queen beautiful and terrible, power oozing from her skin in rivers of silver. Sauron holding her hand, Halbrand's eyes nodding at her encouragingly, he's not afraid of her power. She rests her back on his chest while he caresses her belly. A future. She has touched the darkness.

She takes off the crown and lunges at him with it.

[dwarveslikeshinythings]

My one wild theory for Rings of Power S2:

Either Adar OR Sauron knows where Celeborn is, and this information will drop at a critical moment.

[valar-did-me-wrong]

Sauron will get Adar's sword and Morgoth's crown, but Galadriel already has Nenya on when she attacks Sauron (shown in bts segment), so... maybe an injured Adar will give the ring back to Galadriel who will choose... to heal him, guided by Nenya?

Maybe Adar will wear the ring as a necklace, hidden, like Elrond did... which could explain why Sauron doesn't get it...

Galadriel saw Adar cry, it has to mean something. Maybe she sees how Nenya can heal even a corrupted Elf, which could give her more courage to face Sauron if she wears Nenya? 🥺

Thankyou for this ask!!

(Interestingly I was gonna post about Adar's fate today anyway after just now learning something about JD & Patrick that has made me believe Adar might actually live this season after all so I'll add that theory of mine to this answer too!)

But 1st, I had not noticed Adar's sword in Sauron's hand so omgggggg this is hugeeee!! And to add Galadriel with Nenya in this scenario, it can mean so many things!!

Adar can give her the ring on his own after loosing the crown & his sword to sauron

She could take those off him in a separate clash right before her & Sauron's meeting

Sauron can take it from him when he takes his sword and crown then give it to Galadriel as a manipulation move

In almost all cases, it seems Adar's in for a loosing battle & boy am I worried AF for our daddy & his identity crisis!!

But I just cannot give up hope of Adar living you know.. it's some sort of disease I seem to have in regards to this character!

Because to me, you are SO right mentioning that scene of Galadriel witnessing the Uruk funeral! It HAS to mean something!!

So so many Adar scenes this season seem purposefully added! Like the parallels between him & Galadriel mourning the dead, the parallels of sowing seeds, the Arondir-Adar conflict (which seems unfinished tbh) & the whole play on Light & Dark.

One can say all this was to make his death impactful (add Nenya induced healing here too if you are a believer), which would have been fair had they not kept on adding more & more layers of mystery to his onion-ass identity too!

Twice they make him name drop silm characters in E7 alone; each of those name's rights must have cost THOUSANDS of dollars! So all this building up of mystery; one might rationally assume, must resolve before his death right?! Either this season or in season 3..

Which brings me to my theory on why he might somehow survive to season 3:

I found out today that JD & Patrick are mentees of the Hollywood 'Mystery Box' dude (about which I've heard many angry ramblings but as I've never seen the guy's work myself I can't choose a side)

This is important to my delulu ass rn because the whole 1st season of ROP had the Mystery Box of "Who is Sauron" with the little box of "Who is the stranger".

Now in 2nd season the Mystery Box has been "Who is Stranger" carrying forward from season 1, & the little box is what they have successfully manufactured in these later episodes, the mystery of "Who is Adar".

I believe they will open the stranger's identity mystery box in E8 & will carry forward the tantalizing box of Adar's identity for season 3 to be the main Mystery Box!

(I'm not counting Dark wizard's mysterious identity here as an option rn because they haven't built it or him up as much, maybe it'll be season 3's little box?!)

So wether Galadriel saves Adar on screen or not, whether Adar heals with Nenya or not, Adar still might live!! There are so so so many interesting things they have done with him, it just doesn't make sense to me to waste all that potential in a death rather than use it to maintain hype for the next season!

So in my delulu mind Adar might loose to sauron his sword, Morgoth's crown, Nenya, his children & even his Uruk-ness but he isn't dying just yet!

I hope my ramblings made any sense 🙉🙊

[gelertrook]

I always find it hilarious how threatened Tumblr gets over their "ships" in a media that's actively coming out. The truth is the writers are almost never thinking about what "ships" people want to see. Mostly because the show was already written, made, produced, and aired. All this is to say I felt zero romantic connotations within Elrond and Galadriels kiss in the recent episode. To me, its been made very clear that the elves are a very touchy race. You can see how Galadriel holds Arondir's face later in the episode and they've met a few scant times. Yeah I can acknowledge that the writers are humans and may have a human perception of intimacy when writing it, but maybe not! That aside my personal headcanon is that Gal and El are queer-platonic. I don't think mouth to mouth kissing is par for the course for them, hence the "Forgive me," (I also see it as an ask for consent), but I don't think intimacy is foreign to them or even all elves.

[saurongorthaur9]

Boromir is another great example of a Tolkien character who falls to temptation but repents of it and redeems himself through his brave actions and sacrifice. Thematically, it's perfectly in line with Tolkien's world and the morality of Middle-earth. However, like you, I don't have strong expectations that they will go that far with Galadriel. But I don't think anything about it would be out of line if they did.

also while i do not count on it i disagree that having galadriel temporarily succumb to saurons temptation is against canon, certainly not thematically.

lotr literally ends with frodo succumbing to the temptation. they still win because frodo took it as far as anyone possibly could and they end up "saved" by gollum and what is strongly implied to be an act of Eru.

so having the protag fall to temptation partially but still manage to climb back up and triumph would be in line with it. believing that galadriel cannot be the one to do that goes back to the purity culture and that false virgin mary image of hers.

[saurongorthaur9]

The funny thing is, even if a kiss happens between Hal and Gal, the antis will say that “it's not romantic”, “they're not in love”, “it doesn't mean anything”, “it's manipulation” and blah blah blah

I have noticed some recent conflict in the fandom over what exactly Sauron feels for Galadriel, and I don't want to insert myself into any of that. That being said, I do agree that what Sauron feels for Gal is complicated. I think there is love and there is obsession and probably other things that can't be boiled down nice and neatly into any one emotion.

With that preface, Tolkien actually talks about how Sauron's underlying driving motive is love. Love of order. Love of beauty. Love of perfection. He even says that in the beginning, these things were Sauron's virtue. Morgoth was a being driven by a nihilistic hatred for all things that he could not control and corrupt, but Sauron was driven by passionate love for Middle-earth and the things therein, and this was actually the core difference between them.

Of course, though we know that Sauron's love (as Mairon) started out as something good, it was quickly twisted into obsession to control what he loved. And eventually, when he was not allowed to control it, it twisted into hatred just as passionate as his love had been.

I love that we're actually getting a microcosm of that with Sauron and Galadriel, and I think how Sauron feels about Galadriel is very Tolkienian, given the above passages from "Morgoth's Ring" that I referenced. I think at the beginning, Sauron-as-Halbrand's love for Galadriel was actually pretty genuine and as pure as it could be for a being like him. He connected with her (genuinely, I believe), he admired her, he found her beautiful, and he saw a kindred spirit within her. And I think those were all pretty wholesome feelings.

However, we've already seen those feelings begin to warp into obsession to possess and control. We saw it even by the end of Season 1, when we saw how manipulative and angry he got when Gal rejected his marriage/partnership proposal. We're definitely seeing it in Season 2 with his creepy, possessive behavior towards Mirdania in the last episode.

I think over the course of the series, we'll see Sauron's love become a darker and darker thing, more and more obsessive, more possessive than a genuine connection: mirroring how his love for Middle-earth fell into something dark and twisted. By the very end of the series, I could even see Sauron coming to hate Galadriel - much as he comes to hate Middle-earth - because he can't possess or control her, but I think it will still be an obsessive hatred that is, in part, a love gone terribly wrong.

All this is to say, I think the best characters are complex characters. Is Sauron in love? Yes, I think he is. Is he also manipulating Gal? Yes, I think he is. Is his love something dark and controlling and possessive? Yes, I think it is. These are all things that can co-exist. The one thing that I do vehemently disagree with is that "it doesn't mean anything" or that Sauron and Galadriel's connection doesn't mean anything to Sauron. I think it means everything to Sauron. And if there is a kiss, I think it will be an extension of that. At least, I would hope so.

[rey-jake-therapist]

Speculation time guys ! About Galadriel, Nenya, Elrond and Annatar.

Charlie revealed something about season 2 that we didn't get to see yet : I can't find his exact words, but he said Galadriel's ring was especially important to him because of what it meant to create it, and wants it back (no "we were engaged but she won't marry me so I'm petty and want that ring back now" energy at all, right).

Now, in episode 4 we saw Galadriel trust Elrond with her ring, because she knew she would probably be killed or captured by Adar. We also saw Elrond in full armour (very sexy by the way) battling in Eregion. We don't have any evidence that Elrond and Sauron/Annatar will face each other, but it's very likely that they will, right? Since we see Sauron slaughter a bunch of Elves probably lead by Elrond...

So, we know that :

Sauron wants Galadriel's ring. And he also wants another shot with Galadriel : this isn't some shipper's fantasy but what Charlie said.

Galadriel trusted Elrond with Nenya.

Elrond will fight for Eregion, Sauron is seen kicking Elves' ass in the trailer.

Speculation : I could see Sauron beating Elrond and forcing him to give him Galadriel's ring. Then he could bait Galadriel with it, "if you want it come and get it"...

What' you guys (gender neutral) think?

[valar-did-me-wrong]

Delulu me wants Galadriel and Adar to both escape Eregion together after Sauron takes over the Orcs with the Nine in his possession -- live to fight another day 🥺

Firstly,

I too am absolutely delulu & unwilling to accept Adar's death untill I don't see it with my teary eyes on the screen as I scream & then spend the rest of my life planning how to torment JD & Patrick!

If Adar gets healed by Nenya/Galadriel in some way, shape or form then your wish might actually get answered!

Or he might escape not with Galadriel but with orcs & then S3 is just orcs slowly abandoning him & eventually falling into Sauron's clutches again!

There are so many better, interesting & juicier ways of ending E8 than simply killing Adar off & I hope hope hope Amazon has seen the potential in Adar!!

He can be so many things in coming seasons!

A moral dilemma, a somewhat healed Uruk who belongs nowhere, a failed leader, a fully healed mystery box identity, an orc leader who canonically fights for the good side in Battle Of Last Alliance..

I bet many more things can be added here because he's got so much potential & such an amazing actor behind him!!

Let's just keep our prayer circle active my friend & hope for the best! 🤞🏽😭

[90shaladriel]

Now is that Galadriel's hand on the hilt with Halbrand's hand covering hers? Or the other way around?

I have to assume this would have been post-drown rescue, since Sau- *cough* Halbrand was surprised when he saw the dagger under water. Which means there was a scene of them on the raft after the storm, before being passed out and rescued by the Numenoreans?

On the other hand this almost looks like it was happening earlier when Halbrand and Galadriel are going back and forth about the Orcs and the Southlands right before the storm. What in THAT conversation would have sparked this little exchange?

Nobody is talking about this outtake of Galadriel and Sauron. The proximity and hand-holding are 👨‍🍳😘👌💋

[laurinque]

Speculation: if Círdan who is the oldest of the elves we’ve met and who once lived in Cuiviénen met Adar would he recognize him?

[90shaladriel]

I wonder if Galadriel seeing the great wave destroying Númenor through the Palantir would at all be foreshadowing for future seasons of Rings of Power for herself directly?

Would that be interesting divergence for Galadriel to actually be IN Númenor during the Akallabêth? I know this is unlikely but we have no idea what Galadriel will really be doing in later seasons. In the books Tolkien couldn't make up his mind and then doesn't mention her at all really in the War of the Last Alliance.

Could her hunt for Sauron lead her to chasing him to Númenor?

In the Palanatir scene we hear:

Tar-Miriel: It is Númenor 's future you saw

Galadriel: Palantiri show many visions. Some that will never come to pass.

Tar-Miriel: It has already come to pass. The vision begins with your arrival

Clearly Galadriel's arrival is connected with the vision of Númenor 's downfall and that's nowhere in the books but makes a nice connection of Galadriel to Númenor fate. We assume ROP will depict the downfall of Númenor and not give them a happy ending, so would Galadriel be tied up in that?

If she is there during the downfall. How could she be saved? A Great Eagle? Another raft?

[brynnmclean]

Re: where Celeborn could get an army, I do really hope to see forces from AT LEAST Greenwood so we can also be introduced to Oropher. I think there's a chance we'll never get Amdír of Lórien (I'm holding out for Amroth though!) because we don't exactly need two Sindar vassal kings under Gil-galad to die in the Last Alliance when one could do and Oropher has the benefit of being father to an elf most of the audience is familiar with.

That said... idk, maybe the showrunners/writers could lean into future mysterious Lothlórien (by which I mean, somewhat isolated to the point of elves outside of it not being certain it's inhabited exactly? So the muster of troops from there is unexpected??) and have Celeborn be the Sinda lord of Lórien, so his troops could come from there?? I don't know! I like this idea of him showing up to the siege A LOT though.

Babes, it is INSANE to me that I haven't seen anyone else post this theory, since IMO it's super obvious how the showrunners are going to bring Celeborn in.

Do y'all know who breaks the siege of Eregion in Unfinished Tales???? Do you? Have they not twice now in two separate episodes talked about how they need ONE MORE ARMY, just one more.??

Gil-Galad already told Elrond they didn't have a big enough army to fight Mordor and at Eregion. Elrond was counting on Durin to solve this problem and now we know Durin can't come. Twice now they've opened that door like "they need one more army where are they going to get one more army."

Celeborn - that's where. that's who. that's how.

Current fandom seems to be focusing on him like a housewife or something which is bizarre to me. I guess maybe this is an effect of the Peter Jackson movies.

Celeborn and Galadriel are the original battle couple, you guys. Always have been. My guy was leading armies into the Battle of Beleriand even before Galadriel came to Middle Earth. By the third age, he has led armies in more battles than any other elf alive at that point except maybe Glorfindel. Dude commanded armies at almost every single battle from before the sun rose through to Sauron's ultimate defeat in the third age. He's a warrior.

Flame me if I'm wrong I guess, but they basically engineered this entire season to debut him in the last episode as leading an army in to save the day at the moment when all other hope is lost. Which... is exactly what happens in the books.

Granted, I have no idea where he is gonna get an army. Maybe he ended up in the east somehow and brings elves from Lorien or Greenwood.

[saurongorthaur9]

I wonder if in-universe, any of the characters are going to comment on Sauron's hair-bow or if everyone is going to just pointedly ignore the fact that the literal Dark Lord of Middle-earth is walking around with his hair done up like a princess.