#ren meta

[starstrike]

Mithrun's desire as an SA analogue

TW discussion of SA and detailed breakdown of aesthetics evoking SA. The way I discuss this is vivid in a way that may be triggering, though there is no discussion of actual sexual assault. Just survivor's responses to it.

People relate to Mithrun and see his condition as an analogue for a few different things, like brain injury or depression. And I think all of them are there. But I also see Mithrun's story as an SA analogue, and Ryoko Kui intentionally evokes those aesthetics. I think it's a part of Mithrun's character that a lot of people miss, but I very much consider it text. This is partially inspired by @heird99's post on what makes this scene so disturbing; so check out their post, too :)

So to start off with, the demon invades Mithrun's bed, specifically. There's even a canopy around it, which specifically evokes this idea of personal intrusion; the barrier is being pulled apart without consent or warning. The way the hand reaches towards Mithrun's body from outside of the panel division makes it almost look like the goat stroking over his body. It's an especially creepy visual detail; similarly, the goat's right hand parts into the side of the panel as well. It's literally like it's tearing the page apart; but gently. So gently.

Mithrun is in bed. It is his bed that the demon is intruding on. He's in a position of intimacy. The woman behind him is a facsimile of his "beloved" that he left behind; the woman who, in reality, chose Mithrun's brother. He is in bed with his fantasy lover, who is leaning over him. While this scene isn't explicitly sexual, it is intimate. And it is being invaded. The goat lifts Mithrun gently, who is confused, but not yet struggling.

The erotics of consumption and violence in Ryoko Kui's work(remember that the word 'erotic' can have many different meanings, please) are a... notable part of some of her illustrations. I would say she blurs the lines between all forms of desire: personal, sexual, gustatory and carnal, in her illustrations in order to emphasize the pure desire she wants to work with and evoke to serve her themes. Kui deploys sexual imagery in a lot of places in Dungeon Meshi, and this is one of them.

In this case, horrifically. The goat's assault begins with drooling, licking, and nuzzling. The goat could be enjoying and "playing with" its food. But it can also be interpreted as it "preparing" Mithrun with its tongue as it begins to literally breach Mithrun's body. The goat also invades directly through his clothing; that adds another level of disturbing to me. There's nothing Mithrun can do in this moment of violation. Mithrun is fighting, but he is fighting weakly, trying to grip on and push away when he has no ability or option to. All he can do is beg the goat to stop. And it doesn't care. This all evokes sexual assault.

The sixth panel demonstrates a somewhat sexual position, with Mithrun's thighs spread around the goat's hunched over body. In the next, the goat pulls and holds apart Mithrun's thighs as he nuzzles into him. The way the clothing bunches up looks a bit as if it has been pushed up. It has pinned Mithrun down onto the bed, into Mithrun's soft furs and pillows. It takes a place made to be supernaturally warm and comfortable, and violates it. It's utterly and intimately horrifying. To me, this sequence of positions directly evokes a rape scene. I think Kui did this very explicitly. These references to sexual invasion are part of what makes this scene so disturbing; albeit, to many viewers, subconsciously.

This is also the moment the goat takes Mithrun's eye. Other than this, the goat seems exceptionally strong, but also... gentle. It holds Mithrun's body tightly, but moves it around slowly. It doesn't need to hurt Mithrun physically. But in that moment, it takes Mithrun's eye. Blood seeps from a wound while an orifice that should not be pierced is penetrated. This moment, the ooze of blood in one place specifically, also evokes rape. That single bit of physical gore is a very powerful bit of imagery to me.

Finally; it is Mithrun's desire that is eaten. After his assault, Mithrun can find no pleasure in things that he once did. He is fully disassociated from his emotions. This is a common response to trauma, especially in the case of SA. It's not uncommon for people to never, or take a long time to, enjoy sex in the same way again; or at all. They might feel like their rapist has robbed them of a desire and pleasure they once had. I think this makes Mithrun's lack of desire a partial analogue for the trauma of sexual assault.

Mithrun's desire for revenge was, supposedly, all that remained. Anger at his assaulter, anger at every being that was like it; though, perhaps not anger. Devotion, in a way. To his cause. I don't know. But the immediate desire to seek revenge is another response to SA. But on to Mithrun's true feelings on the matter.

This is... So incredibly tragic. Mithrun feels used up. Like his best parts have been taken away. Like he's being... tossed aside. This certainly parallels the way assault victims can feel after being left by an abuser. Or the way assault victims feel they might be "ruined" forever for other partners. These are common sentiments for survivors to carry, and need to overcome. In the text, it's almost like Mithrun feels the only being who can desire him is a demon who might "finish devouring" him. That that's his only use. It's worth noting that Mithrun trusted the demon. Mithrun's world was built by the demon, and Mithrun, in that way, was cared for by the demon. I think this reinforces Mithrun's place as a victim.

There's also something to be said about Mithrun as a victim of his own possessive romantic and sexual desire. The mirror shows him his beloved just dining with his brother, and it infuriates him. He doesn't know if the vision is real, nor if she has really chosen his brother as a romantic partner. The goat then creates a whole fantasy world where she loves him. As Mithrun's dungeon deteriorates, she is the only person that continues to exist. Mithrun continues to have control over her. And that is the strongest desire the demon is eating, isn't it? There's something interesting there, but I don't know what to say about it.

In conclusion, I think Mithrun's story is an explicit analogue for sexual assault-- though, certainly, among other things! The way the scene plays out and is composed explicitly references sexual violation and invasion of the body. His condition mirrors common trauma responses to sexual violence. And, at the end, he finally realizes he can recover.

Let's end on a happy Mithrun, after taking the first step on his journey to recovery :) You aren't vegetable scraps Mithrun. But even if you were-- every single thing in this world has value. Even vegetable scraps.

[starstrike]

After some super brief research, it looks like people in Japan are diagnosed with autism at almost twice the rate of most countries, including the UK. This means there's... quite possibly more awareness there than in many Western countries. And when you think about the amount of work it takes to make it in the manga industry, everyone in it pretty much has to be obsessive about their interests; I wouldn't be surprised if the field attracted a higher rate of autistic people than most. Given just how accurate Laios is as an autistic character... I would honestly be shocked if Ryoko Kui wasn't close with someone with autism. Or is autistic herself, for all I know. I won't speculate on that.

I've seen a lot of people talk about how the most well written autistic representation usually is unintentional, because "intended" representation often fits into a stereotypical box informed by "savant" stories instead of those of real life autistic people. But stereotypical character writing is not a problem in Dungeon Meshi. Ryoko Kui is an exceptional character writer. Her characters feel like real people, reflecting much more than straightforward tropes from the genre. Kui, like most good character writers, probably takes a lot of inspiration from the many people she's met and known in her life. Not just characters she's read in stories.

Even if Kui doesn't define Laios as an autistic character, I'd say that it's obvious that he's heavily informed by real life autistic people. And that's... not a claim I've made in my entire life, actually. I usually don't like diagnosing characters as part of an analysis of text; I think it can be reductive. But Laios' experiences with characters like Shuro and Kabru read so heartwrenchingly well as a narrative about trying to form relationships as specifically an autistic person.

I don't want to Laiosrant and cite my sources too much here but in conclusion he's autistic and I believe it's likely he was intended to be. And if he wasn't, he was informed by real life people with the pattern of traits and brain differences that psychology has defined as autism. And in the end, I don't think that difference really matters, actually.

i don't really like when people say dungeon meshi is accidentally good autistic representation, because while i understand not wanting to make conclusions without explicit confirmation from the author, there's always the weird assumption that non-western authors somehow don't know about things like neurodivergency/queerness/etc. (on top of the assumptions that east asian authors are somehow more naive or oblivious to "western" social issues).

given that dungeon meshi started being published in 2014, it's not really a "work belonging to its times"—it's as contemporary as any other media we discuss on this site, which means it should be fair to assume it engages with contemporary topics (and at the very least, you shouldn't say that the representation is accidental with so much confidence)

but anyways, the chapter "perfect communication" in ryoko kui's "terrarium in a drawer" is some of the most straightforward autistic representation I've seen, and from now on I'm going to assume that laios's character writing is absolutely intentional in that regard:

[megaderping]

Something a lot of people mistakenly believe is that Akechi enjoys the work he does for Shido and that he takes the orders to kill without any resentment or regret. These text messages shed some light on the way he thinks and show that this is not actually the case. Unfortunately, these texts are entirely missable if you finish the treasure route to Sae's Palace too early. As a result, this crucial characterization is often overlooked and people take what they know about characters like Persona 4's culprit and Persona 3's traitor and assume that Akechi is playing it straight.

But even without these obscure texts, it's not like the game is subtle about this. Akechi's lack of freedom and agency is a recurring aspect of his character that people will often cast aside because it's much easier to boil him down to "crazy serial killer" than actually look at the complexity of his situation and his own victimhood.

Throughout his Royal confidant, Akechi's perfectly crafted mask cracks several times. Moments like this show him offering an out, even if he's MUCH happier if you don't consider it.

He doesn't WANT Joker to change. As much as he claims to hate Joker, he admires his convictions. Wishes he had what Joker had. Wishes he could have been more like him. See: the Gun About rank up where he mentions how he used to want to be a hero of justice.

The creepy smiles and shit you see on 11/20 and in parts of the engine room are another mask Akechi wears. Akechi ALWAYS swaps out his masks to best serve his situation. Yet he still tells Shido not to kill the thieves, that Morgana is just a cat, and is perfectly content to leave them alone, and after his fight in the engine room, when the mask literally breaks...

We see his regrets on full display. He isn't proud. He's done making excuses. All those little times the mask broke in the Royal confidant were ways to set up this moment. He genuinely cares SO much about Joker, but that caring was dangerous to his objectives, so he HAD to hate him. He HAD to want to kill him to achieve his objective, and yet...

He still cares. He's putting out spikes in third sem, no doubt because he suspects his own fate should they destroy Maruki's world, but...

[maskedrivals]

The claim that "shuake wouldn't work out because Akechi tried to kill Joker" is funny to me because Joker canonically prefers "just everyday Akechi" over detective prince Akechi.

We have proof of Joker's preference in the third semester. Okumura was revived as a loving father in accordance to Haru's wishes and Akechi was revived as his maniacal, violent self in accordance to Joker's wishes.

Joker could have revived Akechi to be any iteration of kind and friendly but he didn't. Instead, he wanted Akechi to have the same personality as his black mask self, the same personality of the man who attempted to kill him. Joker canonically prefers Akechi's true personality, whether the player agrees with him or not.

[theminecraftbee]

anyway, so the hermit permits: this feel VERY MUCH like the hermits going “we did not like how little we used the shopping district in 8 and 9, we want to create a mechanism that not only brings it back but hopefully forces more collaboration by preventing one guy from having the super shop”. I’m here for it! interested in seeing how it plays out going forward, it definitely at the very least intrigues me! as does iskall mentioning that if he doesn’t keep up with demand the other hermits are allowed to rebel and take his rocket permit, sir what does that mean,

[artist-issues]

I just NEED everyone to agree with me that Rey's parents are nobody. We should all agree about that. We should collectively, as an audience, say, "clearly the best idea was to have Kylo Ren be a dynastic heir to the major legends of the Force who wants to throw off his family's shadow, while his rival is nobody from nowhere who wants to belong--so we're going to stick with that."

And then, what should have happened is, Rey can finish her story by being able to say, "My parents might have abandoned me, but that doesn't mean I'm worthless." And eventually Kylo Ren can say, "My family might have been powerful, but I don't have to be," and all those other things that they can bounce off of each other as great foils.

It can keep being a good story about accepting past failures and choosing to grow beyond them.

Let's just all collectively ignore Rey Skypatine because of how silly that was. I mean. If they can just ignore the setups in the previous movie, we can ignore their choices in the conclusion. Right?? Right? Tell me I'm right

[pyjamacryptid]

so like, do you ever think about the similarities between Gwaine and Will (from Ealdor)? And their respective friendship with Merlin? Because, dude, I’ve been thinking about it all week.

These two would've been friends, I'm sure of it.

Gwaine makes the most iconic character introduction of the series, gets stabbed, continues to be a menace, and then he and Merlin bond over their fathers, and lack thereof.

Gwaine is cynical about nobility, especially Kings. As we know, his father was a knight who died in battle in Carleon’s name, and the King repaid his family with nothing.

Then you’ve got Will. Will - the most iconic man from Ealdor, which is a tall order when your mate’s Merlin, Mr “Greatest Sorcerer To Have Ever Walked The Earth” who is also from Ealdor. He greets Merlin like “your kind ain’t welcome here….. lol jk bring it in”, and then immediately squares up with Arthur, who’s kind - as far as Will is concerned - is definitely not welcome here.

Merlin reveals that Will’s issues with Arthur run deeper than how they first appear. Will, too, had a father that died in battle in service to, most likely, a King. The majority of it is inferred to the audience and we’re encouraged to make our own conclusions.

It’s very likely that Will and Gwaine share very similar backgrounds. I’m not sure that Will’s father was a knight, it’s more probable that he was a soldier of some kind and not of noble birth. Regardless of whatever rank he held, there’s overlap: a father was in service to a king, died in service to that king, that king left the family with nothing as thanks, and the son is left a cynic with no trust for people with fancy titles.

Another parallel is that in both 1x10 and 3x04, Will and Gwaine leave. For different reasons, of course. Will leaves because he refuses to fight for Arthur, a noble, and Gwaine leaves because he stood up to “nobles” bullying Merlin and was banished by Uther for it.

And then they both come back, to Merlin’s delight. Will comes back, risking his life, because it’s not about fighting for Arthur; it’s about fighting for Ealdor, his village, and to fight beside Merlin. Gwaine comes back, risking the consequences of his banishment, because he knew Arthur was in danger and Merlin likely would need some help.

But like, do you think Merlin, after Will’s death and since meeting Gwaine, sees these similarities between his two friends? Not just in experiences but personality? We only got one episode with Will, and we met him during a really desperate time, so the guy was probably stressed to the roots of his hair; and it was also after Merlin returned after moving away. So, Will - though happy to see him - was still cross after feeling abandoned. We didn’t get to see more of Will’s personality outside of that, but we know he was fiercely loyal, cynical, considered people’s lives worth more than material wealth or glory, outspoken and unafraid to tell a prince to fuck off, and one for banter (i.e. how he welcomed Merlin home).

Do you think Merlin saw Gwaine’s joking nature, his fierce loyalty, his criticisms of nobility and how he considered titles unimportant compared to who a person was on the inside, and thought of Will?

And, what if Merlin, late at night and lying in bed, thought that - if they’d ever gotten the chance to meet - Gwaine and Will would’ve been good friends.

…. anyway, that’s what’s plagued me for 6 days.

[vashtijoy]

Thinking more about Akechi's rank 3, and about its flow into rank 4 at the jazz club—where Akechi begins to open up to Ren, by taking him somewhere special to him that he hasn't shared with anyone else.

Don't you think it seems off, on a first glance? Like it doesn't work? Because Akechi does not seem to entirely appreciate Ren's intervention. If you look at their phone call afterwards, it seems like Akechi lost control in the café, and is trying to take that back from Ren. He threatens him with what Ren "took" from him!—"I'll be dictating everything, from hair to accessories". Ren dictated the hair and accessories in rank 3, and now Akechi needs to do the same!

Make no mistake, this exchange, while cute as a button, is also Akechi struggling to regain some control that he feels he lost. He needs payback; he needs to meet Ren's challenge; he needs more.

So what's going on?

always in chains

As Akechi mentions in the engine room:

This line, of course, suffers in translation, so let's take a closer look:

Akechi 君は、今までの自分とか、人間関係とか⋯そういうものに囚われない。 kimi wa, ima made no jibun to ka, ningen kankei to ka… sou iu mono ni torawarenai You don't allow yourself to be enslaved by such things as human relations or past selves…

Did you understand this line on its first pass? Or at all? "Past selves"? What is this, Akechi, are we bringing in reincarnation now? What do you even mean by "human relations", is this a biology class?

Let's rework it a little. ima made no jibun—that's "the you until now". We might say "who you've always been". And ningen kankei—well, that is "human relations", translated very literally. But nobody would ever say that—it just means "relationships"! When you talk about your ningen kankei, you're often talking about your skills with relationships—how you get on with people. And Akechi gets on with people very well.

So what is he actually saying?

You don't allow yourself to be enslaved by such things as human relations or past selves… You're not a slave to expectations, or to how others see you.

Akechi will later tell us that these chains have bound him since his earliest days:

Those chains are the core of the resentment and envy he feels for Ren. More than anything Shido could potentially do to him, the expectations of others are what bind and torment Akechi. And this difference in how Akechi and Ren respond to outside pressure is one of the most important contrasts between them.

back to rank 3

So what does all of this tell us about rank 3, when Akechi is spotted by celebrity hunters?

In this situation, Akechi can't do anything but leave. He has to be the good boy everyone expects. He can't just sit there soaking up the adulation, and it seems clear that he isn't so inclined—look at the way he cringes away in his seat, and more to the point, look at his face:

Before he's accosted, his sprite and model match—he is probably genuinely pleased! But afterwards, though the sprite is sad, the model looks angry. Akechi can't confront his fans and ask them to leave him in peace. He can't dare to be angry with them, even though he's spitting tacks. He is chained—he can only ever do what people expect "Goro Akechi" to do.

Not just as a celebrity, but in every sphere of his life, even when he's carping to Sae or showing off for Shido, he is a slave to his public image—to the expectations others have of him. He cannot act outside that box. Society put Akechi in chains from babyhood—and his response was to own them, to build a bigger, better cell for himself. That he understands—he tells us how it works repeatedly!—and that he recognises, but can never escape.

So what is it that Akechi learns about Ren, in rank 3? It's that if you dare put Ren Amamiya in a cell, he'll tear it down.

Akechi could only dream of acting the way Ren does in this moment. Ren takes a huge risk here—on how Akechi will react, on how the crowd will react—and it pays off. Rather than submitting to the chains others place on him, Ren refuses to be bound. Ren is ungovernable.

Of course that's catnip to Akechi. Of course, even though it unnerves him, he wants more. He's drawn to Ren like a moth to flame—and this is the genesis of the bitter envy that will become so toxic by rank 8.

revision history

Click here for the latest version.

v1.1 (2024/10/06)—clarified some pronouns.

v1.0 (2024/10/06)—first posted.

[baravaggio]

Nana x "Where is My Place in the World? Early Shōjo Manga Portrayals of Lesbianism" by Fujimoto Yukari (tr. Lucy Fraser)

[miaoqing]

svsss fact check/common misconceptions

"quick", i called it, and then it turned 8 pages long. sigh

this is a compilation of my own research (based on the english tl of the novel) and summaries of what @svsss-fanon-exposed has painstakingly examined; for more in-depth explanations/discussions + even more topics, please do check out @svsss-fanon-exposed <3 and of course, let me know if anything here is false, if you want a source for anything, or if there's anything else you'd like me to add!

this got quite long so! cut time!!

SHEN YUAN

death

Novel: not specified. 

Donghua: choked on a bun (not food poisoning!)

(iirc the yoghurt/food poisoning thing is the ghost of either an early draft or something mxtx allegedly posted on social media but that never made it to canon. don't quote me on that tho)

terminal illness

Entirely fanon. svsss-fanon-exposed post here

age

He transmigrated at some point between 15 at the absolute youngest and 23 at the absolute oldest; most likely 19-21. (fun fact: if he was younger than 19, LBH is actually technically older than him post-canon)

did Shen Yuan wear glasses?

Never stated in either the novel or donghua but not contradicted either. svsss-fanon-exposed post here

is shen yuan an unreliable narrator?

close enough

LUO BINGHE

early years

Fishermen got Binghe out of the river and gave him his name (Luo as the river, Binghe meaning icy river). He then wandered the streets for a few years, and then he was adopted by the washerwoman. After she died when he was 10, he joined CQM.

hair

Binghe’s hair is not canonically curly </3 

scars

The scar on his chest is from when SQQ stabbed him at the edge of the abyss. The one on his hand is from the Jinlan city arc. svsss-fanon-exposed post here

bingge’s harem

Novel: "nearing three digits", “three-digit number”, “innumerable”, “large”, “vast” .... 

Donghua: around 3000

Not specified if this is just the wives or if it also includes concubines etc

xin mo

Bingmei is more prone to Xin Mo’s backlash than Bingge, as stated in the bingge/bingmei extra

demon mark

Binghe’s zui yin (not huadian, check entry in “misc.”) can change shape and expand. He can also hide it at will, but it seems to take some effort. svsss-fanon-exposed post here

head disciple

SQQ chooses Binghe as his head disciple, probably to explain why he let him move into the bamboo house. Ming Fan isn’t and never was the head disciple - check the entry “SQQ’s disciples”

Luo Binghe is big and buff and way taller than SQQ

False. Very in-depth svsss-fanon-exposed post about lbh’s appearance here but basically… he’s built like a kpop idol… personally i’m thinking Jeonghan or Haechan but could probably go as far as like… Taemin maybe. He’s also only like 2 cm (1in) taller than SQQ.

SHEN JIU

why did SJ hate LBH???

He was jealous of LBH for getting to join a sect and improve his cultivation at the best age and for having a mother who loved him. That's it lol. He also feared Binghe's power and potential which is why he made sure to sabotage him at every step. (ch 1)

“Envy that Luo Binghe had a mother who was “the kindest in all the world to him,” envy of Luo Binghe’s talent, envy that Luo Binghe would enter Cang Qiong Mountain Sect at the best age for cultivating.” - Ch. 19

qiu haitang called qiu jianluo "a-luo", which is why SJ hated binghe

Entirely fanon; she only ever calls him gege (also the "Luo" is a different character = slightly different pronunciation)

surely SJ wasn't thaaaat mean to LBH??

yeah no he really was just that much of a child abuser :/

fake cultivation manual

ch. 1 vol 1: "The cultivation manual Ming Fan had given Luo Binghe was a fake"

SQQ&YQY extra: “Luo Binghe was using the incorrect cultivation manual that Shen Qingqiu had handed him; he should have long since died bleeding from the seven apertures, his body rupturing down to his bones, skin, meridians, tendons, and flesh.”

ch. 2: "Shen Qingqiu had inspired Ming Fan to give Luo Binghe a fake cultivation manual."

SJ was SAd by QLJ

Not explicitly stated but definitely a possible interpretation

SJ only went to brothels to sleep

Fanon but likely; svsss-fanon-exposed post here

SHEN QINGQIU

SQQ’s disciples

The number is not specified. Only Ming Fan, Binghe, and Ning Yingying are mentioned by name, but there were at least a few more (eg. Ming Fan's lackeys, the disciples waiting by SQQ’s bedside when SY transmigrates, the group he passes by on the peak). Ming Fan is (presumably) the oldest and about 16 at the start of the story, Binghe is around 14 (or 12-13; mentioned in svsss-fanon-exposed post here) Ning Yingying is the youngest (svsss-fanon-exposed post here), so all his disciples are presumably between ~12-16. no new disciples were taken in after Binghe - he's still the newest shidi when SY transmigrates.

NYY might not be the only female disciple on QJP - in the bingge/bingmei extra, SQQ refers to some disciples as “a group of teal-robed boys and girls”, however, the Chinese word used for "boys and girls" here doesn't actually specify gender. NYY is referred to as "Shen Qingqiu's youngest female disciple" but it's hard to tell if it's meant to be interpreted as "youngest of the females" or "youngest and also female, unlike the others".

Ming Fan was never head disciple - he is only ever specified to be the oldest disciple/the first one to become their master’s student. however, if a head disciple isn’t chosen, is it usually the most senior disciple who does their work - which in this case is Ming Fan. svsss-fanon-exposed post here

There might be "outer disciples" on QJP, in which case Ming Fan would be SQQ's earliest disciple, not necessarily the first on the whole peak. However, there is no outright mention of any outer disciples on QJP; the only mention of outer disciples is in regards to An Ding.

SQQ’s eye colour

In the novel his eyes are described as black. however, in many official illustrations they are green, grey, or some other lighter colour. 

svsss-fanon-exposed post(s) here

META

how long was pidw?

novel: LONG. Its posting time spanned 3-4 years (SY says 4 years in chapter 1, Airplane says 3 years in the Airplane extra). Airplane allegedly “updated ten thousand words a day, every day, for three years straight” with “periodic burst releases of eight whole chapters”. He had also written other works before PIDW.

PIDW covers 200 years of Binghe's life.

donghua: 6666 chapters

what’s the svsss timeline?

link to ao3 post by VagabondDawn

post examining the pre-canon timeline by svsss-fanon-exposed

CQM

peak lords’ ages

Shen Jiu was about 33 when he died. Yue Qingyuan is roughly three years older than him and Liu Qingge is a few years younger. others are unknown. check the svsss-fanon-exposed post re:the timeline linked above

• CQM's disciple robes are colour coded

canon. svsss-fanon-exposed post here

qing jing - the eng tl says teal but the Chinese character used to describe the color can mean one of several shades of green/blue-green/etc qiong ding - unclear but YQY wears black in the donghua and “dark-hued robes” in ch. 19 bai zhan - black disciple uniform, but LQG wears white (novel) xian shu - pink/purple (donghua) an ding - blue (official art)

others unknown :/

MISC.

how did Airplane die?

He spilled noodles onto his laptop while laughing at Peerless Cucumber's forum posts and electrocuted himself when he pulled the plug out trying to save his half-finished file. This is kind of weird because if Airplane had an unfinished draft on his laptop when he died, SY couldn’t have finished reading the entire novel; unless the system somehow finished the chapter, uploaded it as the final chapter after Airplane died, and did such a bad job that it killed SY. Alternatively, he could have been working on a bonus chapter after finishing the main story, in which case SY was already dead by this point :0

but yeah TECHNICALLY you could argue that cumplane indirectly killed each other lol

However, Airplane transmigrated into a baby Shang Qinghua; he spent probably at least 30 extra years in "PIDW" compared to SY

huan hua

little palace mistress is the old palace master’s daughter, not granddaughter

all demons have forehead marks

fanon, straight up contradicts the canon text. only heavenly demons have demon marks in the novel, despite what some of the official art suggests. also, this type of mark would be called a zui yin, not a huadian. svsss-fanon-exposed post here

Liu Mingyan

Liu Mingyan is not confirmed to be either head disciple or even the most senior disciple. she might be! but it’s not stated in canon. svsss-fanon-exposed post about head disciples here

that's it for now! again, lmk if there's anything i missed or anything else i should add!! + check notes for comments from others :)

[starstrike]

I'm obsessed with how Shivers will outright tell you that the anodic music kids will fail. I think this implies that, even if you build up the club, nobody will ever visit it.

I think this was one of the times in Disco Elysium that I really... got it. After reading this, I decided to tell the kids to scram. They wouldn't succeed anyways. It felt terrible. I reloaded my save; I couldn't stand to do anything else. Just because hope, beauty, or love are temporary, does that make them any less valuable? Just because you know something will be snuffed out doesn't mean you shouldn't try. That hope and love is valuable for its own sake.

At the time, I was going through a severe depressive episode. I was moving out in six months before moving cross country, so why should I bother investing into my environment? I had this old fish tank I'd poured effort into, once. Got some new fancy aquasoil that would be great for my plants, but it needed time sitting underwater. I left it like that for… oh, months. This damaged, empty, sad little thing that I had once loved immensely.

But building that nightclub with those kids made me change my behavior. I got myself a $6 betta fish, shoplifted some plants from petco, and built my tank up again. Even knowing I'd need to break it apart. So what if it ends? So what if the dance club never becomes popular? You build something and dance with your community, even if your dream fails. Even if it ends. There was love there.

And I think that's one of the things Disco Elysium is about. The kids and their nightclub is a microcosm of the knowledge that the pale is enroaching on Insulinde and the rest of the world. There is a literal, tiny, hole in the world inside of that church. The hole is another reminder of entropy, of the End. And all of this takes place in an edifice of a centuries-old regime and a religion of maintaining the status quo. A religion of broken glass and broken promises. But you take those shards and build on top of them, transforming their meaning. You grow, you build, instead of apathetically letting things remain the same. You find hope and beauty and love even though you know it's unsustainable.

Because the 'now' is valuable in itself. And I love that about this game.

[miapcain]

pet peeve

[megaderping]

I think one of my problems with the "Akechi dying is better for the themes of P5R and Joker's character growth and mourning" is like... Okay, but what about Akechi? That framing makes Akechi more of an object to Joker's character, IMO, whereas I think that him surviving in the max confidants ending has so much fascinating potential for Akechi having to live with his mistakes and move forward. He went in expecting to die, to have a simple final act of freedom... But I think him being forced to keep living, to face every day one at a time, to find ways to make peace with what he did and live in the world is just infinitely more compelling from a storytelling standpoint. For Akechi, I think it's a better outcome because it's lacking in elegant simplicity. Even if he lives, he was still willing to die for the sake of everyone's freedom. His survival doesn't erase that. It may "lessen" Joker's choice to reject Maruki's reality, but I think it also makes accepting that reality incredibly cruel, when a strong enough bond with him is enough to save his life and make a miracle happen. Mona describes the world itself as cognition. In P5's vanilla ending, he says it was the PT's bonds that allowed him to continue to exist as a cat in the real world. Given the significance of a maxed confidant making him appear in the postcredits, I believe that it is very simple to read his survival being because of that bond. That wish that they both shared, as confirmed by the Royal artbook. If you prefer exploring the grief and mourning, that's completely fair, but I think there are many ways to interpret Royal's themes, and Akechi living in a harsh reality where you can't escape your past but you can heal and do better is still very on point with what P5R is all about. Unlike P3, which centers more heavily on death, P5R simply touches on it as a part of its greater narrative. And even in P3, you can save a certain character from death via player choice and connections. So, yeah. :p

[maespri]

let's talk about the many crimes of the phantom thieves

hello and welcome to me detailing the many crimes of the persona 5 royal teenagers... my dearest friend and i got bored and decided to make a list of every crime they could potentially be charged with, and i thought i'd post it to get other people's thoughts (in case i missed any) + laugh about the insane shit they've pulled off.

lets go!!!

before we get into this: we did not count crimes that were committed within the metaverse, as it wouldn't be possible to really charge the phantom thieves. the only exception to this is goro. we counted his metaverse crimes because it made his laundry list of crimes funnier. that's all.

p.s.: i love studying criminology, but i know i'm not an expert by any means. if i mess something up, miss a crime, etc.- let me know!

now, let's get into it, in order from least to most crimes!

sumi yoshizawa commits zero crimes.

good for her... good for her...

ann takamaki commits one crime: battery.

aside from ryuji and haru (who also only commit one crime), ann has the shortest list of crimes with just one: battery. it's a stretch for sure, but technically, she does slap ryuji after shido's palace, and that does qualify as battery. good on her otherwise.

ryuji sakamoto commits one crime: assault.

side note for anyone who doesn't know: assault and battery are two different things. assault is the threat, battery is the action. for example: if i tell someone i'm going to punch them, that is assault. if i actually do punch them, that is battery. that's often why the two go hand-in-hand.

ryuji threatens people quite a bit, but we actually couldn't think of any instances where he goes through with said threats, excluding him punching kamoshida. because that happened pre-canon, however, and because kamoshida clearly didn't charge ryuji, we didn't count it.

haru okumura commits one crime: perjury.

haru lies to sae when being questioned about her father's death. and yes, lying to a prosecutor during a criminal investigation does count as lying to law enforcement in general.

makoto niijima commits three crimes: blackmail, hacking, and theft.

blackmail: makoto approaches the phantom thieves and blackmails them with a video of them stating their identities, threatening to leak it if they do not meet her demands.

hacking: makoto intentionally manipulates sae's laptop in order to steal documents from it.

theft: makoto steals confidential documents from sae's laptop.

ren amamiya/akira kurusu/the protagonist/joker commits three crimes: improperly bringing an animal onto public transportation, resisting arrest, and breaking and entering.

improperly bringing an animal onto public transportation: animals are allowed on most subways in japan if they are documented, in a proper carrier, and, at times, have been paid for with a proper fee. joker brings morgana onto the train every day without doing anything of the sort.

resisting arrest: joker runs from the police and attempts to escape when surrounded outside of sae's palace.

breaking and entering: in one of yusuke's later confidant events, joker picks the lock to madarame's house and enters.

yusuke kitagawa commits four crimes: plagiarism (charges would likely be dropped, however!), stalking, solicitation, and trespassing.

plagiarism: this one was really interesting to discuss with my buddy. yusuke does commit plagiarism by willingly handing over his artwork to madarame and allowing him to claim it as his own. however, it can be argued that he did so because he was being manipulated, abused, and was under duress* (madarame essentially claimed he would end up on the streets if he did not hand over his art). it can also be argued that because yusuke did not place any copyright infringement on his paintings, it wasn't really plagiarism. therefore, this charge would likely be dropped, either on the basis of insufficient evidence and/or his being under duress.

stalking: yusuke does stalk ann for a few days before speaking to her. because this action causes distress to ann (shown by her mentioning yusuke following her around a few days prior, as well as her initial reaction to meeting him), it falls under the category of stalking.

solicitation: yusuke solicits joker to commit the crime of breaking into madarame's house in one of his confidant events.

trespassing: when joker does break into madarame's house for him, yusuke enters.

*under duress: constraint illegally exercised to force someone to perform an act (AKA, forcing somebody to do something illegal via threats, blackmail, manipulation, guilt-tripping, etc.)

futaba sakura commits eight crimes: wiretapping, non-consensual surveillance, espionage, truancy, hacking, tampering, theft, and blackmail.

wiretapping: futaba hacks into phone lines (most notably, ren and akechi's) and listens in on conversations.

non-consensual surveillance: futaba tracks the GPS on a few people's phones.

espionage: futaba spies on people.

truancy: we don't know the full extent, but it is implied that futaba has missed a lot of school, which is a crime.

hacking: i hope i don't have to explain this one HAHA.

tampering: to send shido's calling card, futaba tampers with all the big screens around japan, which is tampering with property.

theft: futaba has stolen plenty of information, classified or not classified, from a loooot of different people.

blackmail: when she first asks the phantom thieves to change her heart, she does so through blackmailing them, threatening to reveal their identities if they don't do it.

goro akechi commits twelve crimes: attempted first-degree murder, mass first-degree murder, unlawful possession of a firearm, conspiracy, fraud, aiding and abetting, terrorism, assault, battery, perjury, blackmail, and obstruction of justice.

attempted first-degree murder: whilst akechi technically doesn't kill joker, he does try to, which means he can be charged with this.

mass first-degree murder: akechi murders. a LOT of people. which falls under this category.

unlawful possession of a firearm: in order to kill joker, akechi steals a gun from a police officer.

conspiracy: akechi states his plans to murder joker and plots it out in advance for a long, long, time.

fraud: faking joker's death certificate is a form of fraud.

aiding and abetting: helping shido kill people is aiding and abetting.

terrorism: terrorism is defined as "the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims." akechi's actions fall under this category.

assault: akechi throws plenty of threats people's ways!

battery: and follows through on many of them.

perjury: akechi lies to all sorts of law enforcement around him, most notably sae and the guard outside of joker's interrogation room.

blackmail: akechi threatens to leak the identities of the phantom thieves if they don't infiltrate sae's palace.

obstruction of justice: by lying about what he knew about the phantom thieves, withholding information from law enforcement, and overall just completely messing with the case, akechi commits obstruction of justice.

that's it!

thank you for reading thank you for joining us joy to the world... shoutout again to my wonderful friend for being these guys' defense attorney's

BYE!!

[maskedrivals]

Foreshadowing and symbolism in Persona 5 Royal - Maruki and the cat

Maruki's Confidant Rank 4

Maruki: I spotted a kitten that had gotten itself stuck up in a tree. I tried rescuing it since I felt bad for it, but I ended up with the clawing of a lifetime for the effort. I had no idea a cat's claws were so sharp...

Joker: Talk about a reward.

Maruki: Ahaha, that's true. But I was able to rescue the kitten, so all's well that ends well.

The kitten represents the phantom thieves, who didn't want to be saved from the situations they were stuck in. This is where Maruki reveals to the player that he is resolved to rescue others, even if they don't want to be saved — even if they fight him over it.

The Thieves Den Conversation

Maruki: The other day, I saved a cat from a tall tree. I hadn't climbed like that in quite a while.

Sumire: You did? That's so sweet, Dr. Maruki!

Maruki: The thing is, even though I was trying to help, the cat lashed out at me with its claws... And then I fell right out of the tree. It was a bit of a disaster.

Sumire: O-Oh... That does sound rough...

Akechi: You're so naïve. Trying to be a good person only gets you taken advantage of. You'd be a perfect target for scammers.

This time, Maruki says that he fell out of the tree and it was a disaster. This conversation can only be seen after you've completed Maruki's confidant and have unlocked the third semester. Maruki falling out of the tree foreshadows the end of Maruki's boss fight — both end with Maruki falling, unable to save those who had resisted him.

Sumire and Akechi's reactions to the cat story also resemble their feelings in the third semester. Sumire is sympathetic towards Maruki, and Akechi mocks Maruki for trying to save a cat who wants to be left alone.

[matt0044]

Regarding the "Does RWBY like women?" poll (yes, yes it does BTW).

You know... the whole poll debacle reminded me of something.

RWBY helped me expand my media diet by telling me that just because people hate something enmass, it could just all be bullshit coupled with mob mentality.

Instead of hatedoms getting me to think:

"Damn, I don't even wanna be associated with that show based on the rage it inspires."

My more skeptical brain is like:

"Okay, so why is it reeeeeeeally hated? Is it reeeeeeeally bad or are people going along with the crowd because critical thinking is too much of a burden in this capitalist hellscape?"

Because bad media literacy is in part a result of the fact that most geeks and normies alike aren't out to be legit critics but rather just want to enjoy the thing, gush about the thing and so forth. They can't exactly articulate their reasonings why like they're trying to get an A+ in Therapy Studies.

And THAT is how the YouTube Video Essay and Angry Critic scene takes off.

We dunk on the Nostalgia Critic (often for VERY real IRL grievances) but his catchphrase: "I remember it so you don't have to" is something many who'd come after would take to heart. These video maker people are taking about a thing you like and are explaining it in a way you not only agree with but makes you feel vindicated.

Be it for love... or for hate.

Because hatedom circles like the RWDE looks to video essays that reassure them, keep them from doubting their stance on the thing and how they enforce it.

With the burden of actually seeing the thing and thinking hard taken off of them, people can confidently say things like "RWBY prioritizes Jaune" despite not looking at any potential evidence in the show that might contridice it.

Which is why this is a call for everyone to question the popular opinions.

Does Jaune Arc reeeeeeally get that much narrative importance at the expense of the main girls?

Was Jaune reeeeeeeally a self-insert?

Was Ironwood reaaaaaally derailed in his character arc?

Was Adam reeeeeeeeally representative of the Faunus?

Was the Faunus reaaaaaally offensive?

And of course...

Was Monty Oum reeeeeeeeally the only one who's vision matter to the show above all else?

Ask yourself these questions and do the work to back them up. If people are giving you responses that contridict you, responses that take evidence from the work itself more often than not, then try to do the same in turn.

Think about that show or movie being panned? What if... you actually like it?

Not everybody is a critic... but we can at least try to.