#religion critical

[balkanradfem]

So I've found Alyssa Grenfell on youtube. She shares her experience of leaving mormonism, and the inner workings of the religion. I had very little ideas about what mormonism is, only that it's a high-control religion, very difficult to leave, and has people knocking on doors trying to get converts. I've been interested to find out more, and I ended up watching almost all of her content, and some of the information I've got from it opened my eyes on other feminist topics, and I believe is relevant to the current discourse!

So if you, like me, don't know how mormonism works, it started when a guy decided that he too could be a part of the bible; he wrote a bible part two: mormon, and proclaimed himself a prophet. Then he started a religion based on his writings, decided it was more important than the bible itself because he 'translated it from gold tablets god gave him', and started gaining followers by convincing people he's the prophet. Once he had managed to get a following, he soon started to sexually exploit the wives and daughters of these followers, to the point where he had 20-40 wives and had married 14yo children. Families allowed it to happen because he would promise them to be royalty in the afterlife. He eventually got into a lot of trouble for stealing and raping children so he was killed by an angry mob, but the religion continued.

The religion is same as christianity except more rules (no coffee, no alcohol, no smoking), eternal worship of the predator who wrote it, followers are pressured to follow the rules exactly, and, the vital part, the followers have to give 10% of their income to the church. They developed a culture where once every young mormon kid comes of age, they have to go on a 'mission', which means they're removed from their home, and have to spend 2 years (1,5 for women) living in a foreign area, knocking on doors, sharing the gospel, trying to convert people. The conversion rate is extremely low, but at that point kids have invested so much time, effort, energy and passion for the religion, they become devoted to it and start to feel alienated in the world that rejects their religion. And even with the low conversion rate, every new convert means another continuous source of income for the church. So it's very profitable to send out young adults to make these sales. The kids are told that if they don't complete their missions, they will not be able to marry, and marriage is presented as their only life purpose.

So how rich is the church at this point? 230 billion dollars. I've been shocked to hear this because I had no idea. Alyssa explained that the mormon church is as rich as Pepsi, they have more money than Disney and McDonalds. So you might be wondering, like I did, well what are they doing with all that money? I've been left to wonder this for a while, until I watched the video called 'Why are so many influencers mormon?', which explained it. I didn't even realize a lot of influencers were mormon. But, this video showed me something both disturbing, and eye opening.

Before I go into that, I have to point out how patriarchal and misogynistic this religion is. Women are not given any options except marriage, and it's presented as the only righteous way to live. They're groomed for marriage from a very young age, encouraged to start writing letters to their future husbands at the age of 9. They're taught cooking, sewing and childcare, and to coddle any males in the family. It's taken for granted that m*n won't respect women, to the point where male children are allowed to harass grown women and their families will not intervene or consider it a problem. Chastity and purity are promoted to the level where members of the religion are expected to wear special underwear at all times, which hides their entire torso, shoulders, and legs down to their knees, and their clothing is expected to cover this up completely. They're rejected by the religion if they dare to have sex before marriage, or drink alcohol or coffee, or in some cases, tea. The church has a history of allowing and promoting polygamy, in the sense that a male was allowed to have as many wives as he wanted; they've since stopped this, but refused to break up the existing marriages. They're also promoting anti gay and racist propaganda, which Alyssa observed in school where she'd been teaching; a gay kid almost ended his life due to extreme homophobia.

I know all of this is somewhat common in all areas of society, all religions, and all cultures, but in mormonism it seems to be written into the core of it.

So now, why are so many influencers mormon? I didn't even know they were. The influencers themselves are not promoting the fact that they're mormon, nor does it come up in viral discussions. Ballerina farm is mormon. Tradwives are mormon. Whataboutaub, Rachel Parcel, brooklynandbailey, tanner_mann, thebucketlistfamily, Taylor Frankie Paul, Sarah Beeston, Ruby Franke, these are all mormon. Most of the Utah-based influencers are mormon, and there's a bigger amount of successful and popular influencers from Utah, than from LA or NY.

For me it immediately explained why this viral content is like that. Why we're having such influx of highly patriarchal, anti-feminist, very dangerous and sexist content, put in front of the eyes of young women. Why it's being promoted as an ideal way of life. How are these women able to share this life as if they truly believed it was good and ideal. How could they think it's harmless? If they're using the internet to the extent that they're creating content, how would they not be exposed to any feminism at all? And they wouldn't because it's against their religion to engage with content like that, or with people talking about it. Because being raised in a high-control religion, they would truly believe their lives are the ideal. They would be presented with it as their only option, the only way of life possible for a woman.

It's heartbreaking because I can now understand why it was so easy to push Ballerina Farm to give up her entire life ambition to get married and carry children for a male she didn't even want to go out with, the pressure from the religion to do so would be immense, she would have been raised to see this as the only option, everything else in her life would be considered pointless. She wouldn't have an actual choice, she'd be groomed for this from the moment she was born. Mormons don't advertise 'looking for your soulmate', they only instruct women to marry a mormon male who completed his mission and make it work.

So how does the immensely rich mormon church play into this? I couldn't see it until Alyssa explained in a very detailed way how youtube content advertising works. I didn't know about this either, but here's the overview:

How much you get paid on youtube, instagram, tik-tok, or other online content platform, depends on what type of content it is, based on how much advertisers are willing to pay to put adverts on it. For instance, you get paid much more for finance content, because banks will pay premium prices to be advertised in a finance-related video. If you're making content on cooking, you get paid way less, because it's not such a lucrative field. If you're making content on christianity, you get similarly low price as for cooking, christian church is not that rich. But, if you're making content as a mormon, that's showcasing some aspect of a mormon life, even if you don't specifically say you're mormon, the price goes way up, to the point where it's as lucrative as finance. The mormon church is making sure that the mormon influencers are being paid premium prices for their content, because people who get massively interested in the influencers, eventually find out that it's the mormon life being advertised, and some of them consider taking on mormonism. Which gives church more converts, which means the church will earn more money. The content we're watching is one huge advert sponspored by mormon church, and we don't even know it.

Alyssa figured this out because her content falls under the keyword 'mormon', and her comments warned her that the church is advertising on her videos, even when she's making mormon-critical content. She then realized that she too was being paid a premium price for her views, just because they're mormon themed. She went on to discover that even just being an influencer in Utah will fetch a premium price, because most of mormons are based in Utah. For more detailed and comprehensive explanation on this, watch her video!

Advertising is not the only way the mormon church is spending their money, they've also built a shopping mall, and are basically spending their money by investing and gambling and everything any corporation does with their profits. It's making me mad, and also makes the members of the church mad when they discover where 10% of their income goes, because they're told it's being used for charity and community service, and not advertisments and building malls.

For me this solves a mystery of how is it possible, in this day and age to have such influx of tradwives and influencers of 'traditional life', they're being sponsored by an organization making a profit off of it, making sure that anyone making this content is so well paid, they're able to live off of it, and keep creating more of it, and in the process of doing that, groom young women into their lifestyle.

Learning more about religions, specifically high-control religions, makes me realize just how much of it is happening all around us, but invisible, not naming what it is. It's similar to MLM's, the people inside are constantly trying to lure more people in, to make profit for those on the top, while the organization keeps changing names and hides their business structure in order to save their reputation. People can get influenced by it, and sucked in, without even knowing about it. Somehow most MLM's are also in Utah.

Mormon church also asked to no longer be called that, in order to stop being associated with the words like 'cult', which people have identified it as. Now they're working under more secretive names, and hidden business practices, so we wouldn't even know what we're being influenced by, and why is the content in front of us what it is.    

[ovaryuri]

most (western) conservative (christian) men do not hate islam the way a feminist would. they simply hate islam because they are jealous of it.

these men show time and time again that they WISH they could do what the taliban is doing to afghan women and girls. they WISH they could brainwash millions of women and girls that covering their entire bodies is good for them. they WISH they could have child marriage. they WISH they could brutally punish women for dressing freely the way they do in iran

when these men hate on islam, it's almost never about the religion's abhorrent misogyny; they only get mad at the idea of islam ""conquering"" their own beliefs.

they don't actually hate islam— they actually love islam! they're just mad their religion doesn't share their playbook.

[athenawasamerf]

Saudi Arabia never fails to send me into a rage. What the fuck do you MEAN sharia compliant scrubs??????? Do you know what the fuck the point of scrubs is??????? Can she run during a code?????? She’s a walking tripping hazard. That skirt will get caught on all sorts of shit, and will be sweeping the hospital floors all day long. It’s inconvenient, uncomfortable, and ridiculously restrictive.

And of fucking course they took off all the pockets.

[mister-rad-boy]

Honestly the way that some trans people/TRAs talk about gender is so similar to Jehovah’s witnesses. Acting like people “discovering their genders” is some sort of spiritual awakening and that always bugged me about the whole movement even before I peaked. People trying to spread the good word of gender identity and acting like it was this big solution to their problems. It’s what led me away from religion and what ultimately caused me to peak on gender ideology.

[wildfeather5002]

An (un)friendly reminder that being religious doesn't mean you deserve special privileges.

No, I'm not talking about being able to have breaks at work for praying or having certain kinds of foods available for you. What I'm talking about here is your ''right'' to discriminate against others and deem others morally inferior for trivial reasons because of your religious beliefs.

You are not justified when you tell lgbtq people they're morally wrong / perverted / going to hell / whatever because your religion says that about lgbtq.

Same thing goes for literally any other group of people: for example, telling people of color they should apologize for being black / brown every single day or else they are going to hell is not justified, even if your religion says so.

Well, in a way you're allowed to voice your opinions, no matter how discriminatory or hateful they are, but then you better not have the nerve to complain about the backlash you get in response. Freedom of speech does not mean freedom of consequences.

[hadesoftheladies]

christianity is sometimes funny to me because you have a whole multitude of theology on the doctrine and problem of sin, which is basically human error, and you have a bunch of "scholars" genuinely asking "why do humans err? how can this be? god must kill his son to fix us." and it's like we err because we're finite in every way? and we have to learn to be bad or good like it takes effort and trial and error? sin nature is literally just human finitude like a baby isn't born evil because it has to learn how to walk.

"why do we default to selfishness?" you are talking about self-preservation and capitalism and only one of these is evil. the other would be god's fault.

"but what about the large scale inhumane evil and wars and terrible systems? the genocides and violence? what is wrong with us? why can't we just get along?" lmao that's just men.

i know you really want human evil to be innate and universal for your theology to work and your god to not be out of a job, but you're complaining about human finitude, capitalism, self-preservation and men. that's literally it.

the dark forces you're talking about that compel humans to do evil are literally just men.

[scorpion-flower]

I'd trust my child being around a drag queen, more than I'd trust them being around a priest.

[craecm]

y’know someone i love exploring?

abel.

in christianity and indeed, anyone intrigued with the ‘lore’ of the bible, there’s a high focus in the cain and abel story, on cain. and that’s totally understandable! a man full of guilt and jealousy, a murderer, and our ancestor. he deserves a lot of attention, he’s very fascinating.

i mean there’s so many mediums of art that have focused on this idea - of us originating from cain, a man who cursed and twisted his family line.

he’s a great point of discussion and interest, but so is abel.

the idea that i believe the bible is trying to build is that abel was an innocent man. just a younger brother who worked hard for god, and glorified him by offering all that he could. that he did not deserve, in any capacity, to die, and that was the horror of cain’s actions (bc we all know the bible does actually promote murder if the right circumstances are met).

but i’d like to introduce a different idea instead. the idea that abel knew cain was jealous, angry, less capable. that he fed off of doing better than him, being the golden child, and so on. that when god told cain to do better, abel felt cocky. it certainly changes how both cain and abel can be viewed.

viewing the murder as a true maddening moment from cain’s point of view, where he has no way to deal with this jealousy except through physical means, because he cannot deal with being toyed with anymore. and then, after it all, god calls once more for that brother, and cain is enraged. why is everything still about him?

then, abel being the worse of the two, but still cain is said to have doomed his lineage. how screwed could we have been if abel survived? would he have been blamed too? to what degree can god find fault in human nature?

though, i do certainly like the idea that perhaps abel simply did not understand how he was making his older brother feel. that he was only doing his job, that he trusted and even looked up to cain. perhaps he only truly wanted to impress cain, and god was in the middle of it all. and then to be murdered by him, after only being invited to take a walk? how terrified he must have been.

its also the fact that abel was a shepherd. he brought murder into the world, as a victim of such, and so the first murder foreshadowed the most important. jesus, as a shepherd also. the first sacrifice for the later sacrifice. but he was only a man, who had nothing but his mother and father, brother and sheep. that was all the world was then, and still he was not safe.

lastly, the fact that abel was replaced by seth.

not to say that the passing of a child disables someone from having another, but the wording gets me here. “in place of abel”. this idea that abel’s space is something that can be filled.

in essence, abel was born to work. he had a duty of it, seeing as his father had just recently been condemned to toil the soil to earn food, rather than have it readily available. in his oppressive job, he worked and gave everything he Could give to god. did he enjoy the glory? we do not know, but one of his own, one who was going through hardship just like him, murdered him for it. did it matter? no, not truly. another would take his place.

[deadpoetmagda]

Your mind seems to be a bit messy, so you're fine interacting with zionists and like and reblog radical feminists posts and you're apparently 'religion critical' but you only seem to bring up islam, lol girl do you even know what you're on about, you either don't know what you're babbling about or you're just desperate for some attention, even if it's negative

Random people on tumblr when they know I'm an Arab woman who's critical of any kind of religion and naturally bring up the one she's been raised with the most, who doesn't wish death and destruction upon the jews and who doesn't boot lick for hamas, a middle eastern woman who've been brought up in a conservative religious society and is aware of the world around her as much as she can and turns out to have radical feminism leaning opinions and beliefs, and when they know I post about these things on my tumblr blog from time to time even though I'm kinda risking my safety, mostly cause I don't have much freedom, if not any, to speak about these topics in real life:

OMG NO WTF IS THIS *gasp* I can NOT *gasp* BELIEVE THIS *gasp* someone stop her!!!!!!

Here's the thing anon, all kinds of people follow me, people who mock and make fun of radical feminists and call them names left and right, fellow arabs who are hardcore hamas supporters who call me traitor and even send me threats merely for supporting a 2 state solution and not mindlessly worshipping hamas or hezbollah like them, Muslims who don't like my perspective regarding their faith and want me to shut up about it, even some conservatives and trump supporters who like me for being anti porn then frown when they find out I'm an 'angry feminist' and a hardcore pro choice witch, and so on, so you're free to follow me and try and engage with me if you want but it's my decision later on wether I wanna block you or not, I mean it's fine as long as you behave yourself but who knows, I like being petty sometimes 🤷🏻‍♀️

Also this is my blog on tumblr.com, the hellsite itself, and I'm free to post whatever the hell I desire, and apparently I'm a human being with complex thoughts and emotions and an ever changing belief system that can be, and to a very high degree, different from millions others.... I know, what a shocker, so pardon me for shattering your fantasy about what others are supposed to believe in and mold into in order to seem right and normal to you and gain your stamp of approval, and I'm sorry your apparent small mind can't comprehend it, so if you don't like it you can simply just leave.

[vampiremiffy]

when people talk about islam in a bad way because is anti women, or extremists in general i cant help but laugh because a lot of the time this critic comes from christians

"oh but in (insert islamic country) women are forced to dress all cover up" i wish i could get pay everytime i've seen female evangelicals in public all cover up despite being 35°C, and not even in light weight fabric but thick, winter-like one and men wearing light fabric, shorts even

"but what about them not being allowed to get help in an abusive relationship" despite living in an open minded country, people still are weird about divorce or even couples therapy, their solution is to suck it up because "what god marry cannot be separated by man"

the biggest example is to literally read the Bible, yall cant pick and choose that it was "another time" because people still believe that

women are inferior

women should be killed is they are unfaithful

women are nothing but house-slaves/reproductive-slaves

and a shit ton of stuff because religion, in this case, christianity as led them to believe that this is OK

[aslitheryprinx]

I hate hate hate when Christians (specifically American Christians) try to say that they're oppressed. And then you're like ok why are you oppressed? 'because we can't follow our beliefs' and the beliefs are that gay marriage should be illegal.

Not being allowed to oppress a group you're against does not make you oppressed...

[balkanradfem]

The christian side of tumblr found a post where I made a little joke about how religion puts women into servitude and it's going around gathering bible quotes and arguing whether this is about christianity or other religions x_x I never thought this day would come.. I didn't think christians were on here. And even though the majority of people arguing are christians, I never wrote down 'christianity', I meant all abrahamic religions.

I'm itching to go argue but I know deep in my heart there is nothing to be gained. These people are eager to mock and personally attack whoever is disagreeing with them and that is not a honest intellectual discussion that I crave. I think if you're religious you just have to avoid thinking things like 'why is that so' and 'isn't that awfully convenient' and 'what if this promised thing fails to materialize' because once you start having those thoughts, the entire thing falls apart.

I remember being 15 and realizing that the christian god has no actual use of us, no point in caring about us whatsoever, and no incentive to pay attention to what we do or don't do, but humans very much have a need to believe in the higher power that works to their personal advantage, and that there's someone 'up there' who will make things alright for them, that they have a higher purpose and that if they follow certain rules it will pay out. And this was enough for me to figure out that god didn't create humans, but humans created god, because humans have a need of a god, while god has no need or use for humans at all.

It was only later when I learned about feminism that I realized it wasn't only that, but that it was specifically made to control, exploit and oppress women, praising them for endless servitude, sacrifice, submission and platitude, all while consistently telling them they're filled with sin and never good enough. It's now ghoulish and bizarre to me that the symbol of their faith is a m*n being brutally tortured, that what we feel is holy is endless suffering and pain and death. We're told to aspire for that. That has nothing to do with spirituality, nothing to do with human nature or healthy and happy human lives. It's a worship of death.

There are promises that religious people make towards women, to make them believe it's a path towards true love, or endless rewards for being 'faithful' and 'pure' or a life where they feel safe from disasters, safe from being abandoned and betrayed. There's nothing in life that can guarantee that. Religion can however, offer certain people a community, it can provide services where you come and listen to stories, and stories come with morals (convenient and confusing morals, but people love engaging with moral-type stories and feeling they've learned something), it provides rituals and celebrations that cultures have integrated in their life (after it destroyed the original rituals and celebrations, but we don't talk about that), and it can provide a common ground of understanding for people (sadly the common ground is that women exist to serve and that this is natural). Sometimes it also provides a feeling of superiority for some people, enabling them to mock, humiliate and patronize others for their 'lack of religion'.

So I understand there are community related reasons a person might feel safer within a religion and having this common ground and community, common beliefs, familiarity and stories, rituals and celebrations, it doesn't come off as a horrible thing, especially when the majority of the culture does it. But other things it brings are painful for women, and often hidden. Encouraging hidden suffering, sacrifice, servitude, centering torture and death, and admiration of torture and death, instead of celebrating nature, life, the world we live in and how we interact with it. Centering males as creators when everyone alive was created by women. Dismissing wars, rape, terrorism, weapons of mass destruction, genocides and male brutality, while endlessly shaming women for having feelings and not doing a good enough job pleasing the violent males. And generally making a hell for women when they have any thoughts about sexuality or lust.

I know me writing about it here will not have any effect on people personally attacking me for being ignorant and uneducated, but it feels good to write down the thoughts I've been having all day! Being forbidden from thinking in certain direction, forbidden from questioning my own beliefs, is something that plagued me for a big part of my life, and I will not have it anymore. I can say 'this is awfully convenient' when religions declare that m*n are leaders and women are supposed to follow and serve. I can say that putting up statues of a m*n dying in torture is fucked up and morbid. I can say that making me believe that I would go to hell, for not following every order I've been given, is a horrid thing to do to a female child. And I'm happy and grateful that I can think and say whatever I want, without any threat of damnation ever looming over me.

[athenawasamerf]

Is it Islamophobic to question why Muslim women in Western countries advocate so hard to wear burqas and niqabs? Or to generally critique gender and religion and using Islam as an (unfairly) intense example? Especially from non-Muslim women?

Religion is important to people and sure women should wear what they want, but I’m not sure if others deserve such harsh criticism in asking why or saying that it’s not a good thing but a fetishized modest ownership tradition. It’s not fair to the women who want to practice their faith wearing it, but a good part of liberal western society acts like calling out traditional conservative behaviors from a majority probably ‘non-white’ religion is bad.

Obviously women pulling off their veils or hijabs should be their choice, and that simple acts like that shouldn’t be simplified as ‘liberation’ (a very western narrative), but is it also wrong to see it that way? Religious women are deeply entrenched in conservative narrative which I can understand; it just makes me sad.

I wish you well, sorry to bother you and if you prefer not to answer that is valid!

I don’t really believe in the concept of Islamophobia to start with. Being wary or critical of any religion isn’t a bigoted stance, and all religions need to be criticised for human rights and women’s rights issues. That doesn’t mean that Muslims aren’t oppressed in regions where they’re the minority, but I believe that has a lot more to do with racism than religious persecution.

Is Islamophobia a useful term to discuss Arab/brown-specific experiences in the west? Maybe, but I find it a lot more harmful than helpful most of the time. It seems to be mainly used to stifle discussions and criticism, and foster a narrative of persecution to create an ‘us vs them’ mentality which is subsequently used to control Muslims and prevent them from seeking community with the ‘other’, and to scare them into remaining within their existing community and faith. It’s a lot like the Jehovah’s Witnesses tactic of sending their young out with intentionally annoying guides to ‘recruit’ people, knowing they’ll be met with hostility that only reinforces their safety and belief within the religious community.

That said, critical analysis of why women hold on to, and even advocate for, religious or cultural practices that contribute to their subjugation - even when they live in countries where they can theoretically be free of these expectations - is not only not Islamophobic/racist, but necessary. I could go into that topic in depth on a separate post if anyone is interested in hearing my thoughts.

Critiquing religion, as I mentioned, is a cornerstone of feminist analysis and can not be ignored to preserve people’s feelings. However, most people who are the racial or religious majority in their communities will hold conscious and unconscious biases towards racial and religious minorities, and don’t usually bother to learn about the religion or culture they’re critiquing. These critiques tend to be based on stereotypes and fear mongering, and usually stem from a place of xenophobia rather than any true concern for women. The best way to remedy this is to take the time and effort to learn about the religion and culture in detail, and listen to women, feminist or not, from said culture or religion to properly understand their experiences and issues before you start making criticisms. Try to run your thoughts by someone from that culture or religion who shares your political ideology (in this case, Muslim or ex-Muslim radfems, especially from SWANA) to sound out any misguided ideas or unconscious biases. It’s a lot of work, so if you’re not up for it, maybe it’s best to stick to criticism of your own culture and/or religion.

When it coms to hijab/niqab/burqa/other modesty garments, you need to tread carefully with real women (as opposed to impersonal ideological critique). Modesty culture is deeply ingrained and many religious people are brainwashed into fear and abject horror at the mere notion of critical thought about their beliefs. Try not to get into heated arguments with religious women unless you’re trained in de-programming and cult tactics. On the other hand, if you’re talking to a liberal who supports dehumanising and oppressive religious/cultural practices on the basis of cultural relativism, you need to stress the dignity of women above any culture or religion. That said, gently questioning the beliefs behind something is never a bad move if you can keep the discussion civil; best case scenario you plant a seed of doubt that can lead to more critical examination, worst case scenario nothing happens and you move on with your days.

As for calling something as simple as shedding modesty items being called ‘liberation’, while I don’t think it’s offensive or a western concept (in fact, considering liberation a western concept is very… paternalistic? I can’t find the right word but it definitely rubs me the wrong way), it is a reductive way of looking at this. The shedding of modesty garments should be a protected human right regardless of faith or location, such that gaining the ability to do so is a tiny drop in the ocean of rights that need to be gained in order to achieve liberation. If we deem the simple right to dress as we please to be liberation, we lose sight of the much bigger battles ahead, and we give conservatives and religious extremists an opening to claim that liberal and feminist movements only strive to achieve sexual freedom and degeneracy for the benefit of men. We already see this happening in SWANA, where MRAs and religious extremists have taken up slogans like ‘they don’t want your freedom, but the freedom to get to you’ (aka the freedom to have sex with you).

Thank you for the thoughtful ask <3

[gordicore]

"Jesus loves you 🥺" No the fuck he doesn't. If Jesus and God truly loved me, they for me to be emotionally and verbally abused by my mom's ex bf, sexually assaulted, and having multiple traumatic events and they did nothing to help me instead. They watched as I suffered no matter how much I prayed. I was the one who got myself out of that situation. I saved myself. Fuck them.

[tearductape]

women who join islam are being love bombed at first

[scorpion-flower]

Drag queens: *Reading books to children*

Religious fanatics: Ew gross, how dare you, you deserve no rights, we'll find you and we'll kill you, won't somebody think of the children?

Priests: *Indoctrinating children, bullying them with threats of hell and sexually abusing them*

Religious fanatics: Aww, this is lovely.