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thephantomcasebook · 4 months ago

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So why are the writers destroying Aemond in S2? Like show us what immediately went down between Aemond and his mother right when he returns from Storm's end, not a few days after, if you want him as a straight up villian, you know. Aldo rumors are he even murders Heleana. That's how bad the writing is. Thoughts?

They fumbled the transition ...

Book!Aemond and Show!Aemond are two different characters.

Book!Aemond is loud, brash, and in your face, with a streak of cruelty and ruthlessness that was needed and fostered as a way to protect his family. Aemond made the hard decisions and took ownership - good or ill.

Show!Aemond in Season 1 was just Daeron in Aemond cosplay. All the attributes of Aemond that made people like him, quiet, brooding, devoted unimpeachably to Alicent, close to Criston. These are all Daeron's characteristics from the book. I think people have this misconception of Daeron - because he is the youngest - of him being light, fun, and innocent. But the book says that he was quiet and cerebral, that he was courteous, but brooded alone with only Alicent - and probably Criston - being the only one who knew his true mind.

Book!Aemond is never going to sit by the fire alone and brood thoughtfully in the shadows of the flames or seek the council of Criston Cole for a private talk. That's 100% Daeron behavior. Book!Aemond is completely unrepentant about anything and everything he does. He takes ownership and flaunts it. The dude is pure unreptant swag.

The problem the show has is that now that Daeron is coming and GRRM insisted that they add Daeron - cause the symmetry would be fucked for the entire story - "The Butterflies" - they had to basically strip Aemond of Daeron's qualities and reset the character to factory settings. The problem is that they both fumbled the realignment and also didn't give him enough time to become the character he became in 2x05-2x08. They fucked around so much with unnecessary plotlines with riots and Mysaria and dragon seeds, that they rushed the transition or gave just enough time to do "Well enough" for the character's story arc.

They also broke Aemond's character to put over Alys and Daemon. In the book, it is extremely clear that a lot of Aemond's odd and psychotic behavior toward the end is being influenced by Alys. Aemond starts going completely off book and out of character once Criston and he take Harrenhal. Aemond abandons Alicent and Helaena, he leaves Criston and Daeron twisting in the wind, he starts burning the Riverlands in a reign of terror that even by the time of "Game of Thrones" they still haven't quite recovered from. All of these things is clearly from Alys's influence through spell craft or just preying on his worst aspects.

Now, Aemond is burning cities because the show is trying to convince us that it was always in his nature, when, if you read "Fire and Blood" a lot of it has to do with whatever Alys is planning. But now, because of this childist "Men are stinky and Women are good" trash their pushing, now Alys is this wise, sage-like, witch, rather than an extremely dangerous and mercenary figure who has her own agenda that is not for the good of the realm, but what is good for Alys Rivers.

The main problem is that the writers woefully misunderstand Aemond as a character and basically reengineered him to fit their bullshit political agenda and message that they want to push. They're trying to set up that 'Yeah, Daemon is bad, but his redemption is that he kills that meanie Aemond, cause Aemond is just pure evil!'

Mark my words, that's the simplistic childish thinking of these hacks.

#House of the Dragon #Aemond Targaryen #Ewan Mitchell #Daeron Targaryen #Daeron the Daring #Alys Rivers

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canonizzyhours · 8 months ago

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i read more canyon fic than i should.

it used to be because i was interested in the actual canon edizzy dynamic some other posts here have talked about and i wanted to find good darkfic about izzy topping from the bottom. then i realized i was never going to find that and it became something i did in good faith hope that i would understand the canyon better, maybe i'd find some really good fic about their take on fanon izzy and i would finally get why they found this compelling. at this point it's something i do out of morbid fascination, i'm still trying to understand the canyon but what i keep understanding is that their perspectives are always worse than i expected.

anyway here's what i was thinking about today. at this point i can sort canyon fic into categories and there's this one subgenre that's always fascinated me - and it goes well back into the early post-s1 hiatus era - where izzy becomes a weirdly passive character who never really does anything.

you can see exactly why this is happening. the author is so immersed in canyon meta that they refuse to engage with any of izzy's canonical motivations from s1 - the craving for power, the homophobia, the fetishizing obsession with masculinity, the contempt for the crew who work under him, the cruelty, the sense of entitlement to control ed's life: they've been convinced that none of that stuff is a part of izzy's character. but when you take it all away, you end up with a guy who would never actually do any of the stuff izzy canonically does in s1. and if you gave him any other motivations that pushed him to do other stuff instead it would become really obvious this is just a completely different guy (there's several OTHER genres of canyon fic where they do exactly that and it is super obvious this guy just has nothing to do with izzy anymore). so you end up with a character who does absolutely nothing except stand around in the background of scenes gazing at edward thinking sad thoughts about their dying relationship and every once in a while the author remembers to have him say "fuckin' twats."

so i was thinking about this today and what hit me like a lightning bolt is this exactly predicted what would happen in s2. the writers wanted to redeem him in one season and since all his motivations in s1 existed to push him to be awful, they had to resolve all of them as quickly as possible. so within the first half of the season izzy had let go of his creepy psychosexual obsession with ed and belief that he should control ed's life and his homophobia and contempt for effeminacy and learned to respect others instead of needing to dominate or be dominated.

but just like in those fics, this turned izzy into a character who no longer had any real personality traits besides saying twat sometimes, or any reason to actually do much of anything at all. and since the traits they got rid of so completely defined who he'd been up to that point, giving izzy any NEW motivations or personality traits would just make it really obvious this was functionally an entirely different guy.

this is the exact reason he was so boring in 2x05-2x07. with those traits gone there is no longer any reason for him to do anything in particular. the only thing they can do with him at this point is demonstrate that his redemption arc is complete by repeatedly having him do the opposite of evil stuff he did last season, and once they've checked off every box on that list, they have to kill him off because there is now nothing else he can possibly contribute to the narrative.

it's so funny to me that if i had taken seriously the lessons i learned from reading canyon fic i would have been able to predict at the very beginning of the season, as soon as it became clear they were speedrunning the redemption, that he would be dead at the end of it. those fics showed me exactly why there couldn't possibly be any compelling reason to keep a fully redeemed izzy in the narrative.

#394.

#ofmd #izzy hands #fandom critical #canonizzyhours

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phantomoftheorpheum · 7 months ago

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PLL OS Summer School 2x06-2x08 Trailer Breakdown

*Spoilers for PLL Summer School 2x01-2x05 + the 2x06-2x08 trailer

Okay, well I've been assured that I am not talking only to myself, so let's do this.

So, while the timeline of events isn't 100% clear, I have been able to group together stuff that I think is related and/or stuff that I think will happen in the same episode.

First up, we see the girl's discussing the tests. Based on their outfits, this is at the top of 2x06. This is the convo where they acknowledge Imogen & Tabby are 'next'.

Chronologically, I think the next few things we've got (but I'm not 100% sure on the order) are- The girls compiling their suspect list, Imogen accusing Dr. Sullivan of being Bloody Rose, Imogen & Tabby staying over at their love interests, Imogen & Tabby's summer school "walk of shame," and Redemption House being put together. While Imogen wears the same outfit in all of these scenes (presumably over the course of two days), Tabby's outfit changes, which is why I think the list of suspects scene is before the others, since she's wearing the blue shirt for her date and the morning after. I think Imogen accuses Dr. Sullivan either directly before or after they compile their list, as she has lipstick on in both those scenes, but does not in the scenes the following morning. (Also the shot of them building Redemption House could come whenever, I just think it's generally in this time).

Their list is - Dr. Sullivan, Kelly Beasley, Mrs. Beasley, Mrs. Langsberry, Deputy Maroon, and Rose Waters (you can't see her name in these screencaps, but you can at another angle). These are all characters the viewers are pretty suspicious of (except Deputy Maroon. I didn't even remember who that was).

Here's Imogen accusing Dr. Sullivan of being Bloody Rose. We don't have a lot to anchor when this happens, just Imogen's outfit and lipstick.

These are the outfits we see them in for the "walk of shame," so definitely the night before the following shots.

^^this shot of Redemption House is cut with other shots when it seems to be open, but I don't believe they're from the same scene. I think this is earlier.

Next we have Kelly announcing Redemption House to the class. The way the trailer is cut, it implies this happens during the morning after the "walk of shame" scene, but it's definitely a different day, because the teacher is dressed differently.

This is also a difficult shot to anchor in time, but I think it must be pretty early 2x06, since so much of the trailer focuses on Redemption House. I think this may actually be the day before the shots it's cut with, but I'm not sure.

Next up, we've got the girls with Redemption House (in Imogen's house). We see them standing outside during the day, and lines of people going in. We also see them inside the house, and then outside at night, all in the same outfits.

Since there's a limit to how many photos I can add to a post, I'm only going to show a little bit of the house, but I'll talk about the rest.

There are a lot of shots from inside the house, but I don't want to waste all my image space on it. The house appears to be specifically themed after the girls season 1 storylines, implying someone has a lot of access to the details of what happened to each girl. I think we get glimpses of scenes based on several of the girls- Mouse on her laptop with Steve, a party where a girl (I think representing Tabby or Imogen) appears to be drinking/dancing, what looks like a drug den (for Noa), two shirtless football players (played by Henry and (I think) Greg) and I'm not sure if this is related to one of the girls or if this is more a sexuality shaming thing. It appears that the girls walk through the house, then an enraged Imogen blows out the power.

Okay, so the next "group" of scenes are- Noa suggesting Christian and Johnny be added to the suspect list, Tabby frightened and falling down Christian's basement stairs, all the girls (and Christian) except Tabby at the Orpheum, seemingly being chased by a mob (that appears to be the online version of the Bloody Rose cult). Again, I've grouped and ordered these in this way based on clothing and context. I assume Tabby is not with the other girls because she has possibly been injured earlier in the episode.

Noa suggests Christian and Johnny as suspects. This shot of Tabby is not 100% guaranteed to be from this scene (though they imply it with the editing), but I think it probably is. We also see Mouse in this scene sitting in front of Noa.

Tabby is wearing this same outfit when she falls down the stairs to Christian's basement.

There are quite a few shots of this sequence where The Orpheum appears to be under siege, which I believe happens later the same day as the previous two scenes. Noa is dressed differently from the scene where she mentions Christian and Johnny, but Mouse is definitely wearing the same top in this sequence as she is when she's sitting in front of Noa, so I think this is that evening. These scenes being in this order would also explain Tabby's absence from the chase sequence.

So I feel reasonably confident about the chronology of the stuff before this point. The rest of this, not so much. I have compiled some shots that are scattered through the trailer that appear to be from the same scene, but where exactly they fall in the timeline is difficult to say.

First, Kelly with Bloody Rose at the pool. I think these shots of Faran might go with this scene (or she may find Kelly after this scene?), because she is at the pool at night.

Not pictured- a shot of what looks like Kelly floating facedown in the pool, Kelly looking back over her shoulder, and another similar shot of Faran. These shots are not shown together in the trailer, but the Kelly shots are definitely connected & I also believe these Faran shots are related. There is also a shot of Bloody Rose standing outside a chainlink fence, which may be here, but I'm not sure.

Next up, Imogen's "test" and a scuffle with Rose. These shots are also split up throughout the trailer, but all appear to be from the same scene. Imogen enters a bedroom (her mother's?) filled with candles. We get a glimpse of her "final girl" letter. She is then attacked by Bloody Rose.

You cannot see it in these shots, but there is a crucifix hanging over the bed, which definitely felt very Mrs. Beasley-ish, but I think this is Imogen's house.

Now on to the stuff that is even more disconnected. I think we might be getting more nightmares from Imogen. There is a very incriminating shot of Dr. Sullivan that I don't believe they would ever show us in a trailer if it were real, where she has the Bloody Rose mask. Everything about this particular shot feels fake, so I think Imogen (who we know is suspicious of Dr. Sullivan) dreams this.

Additionally, I'm wondering if Imogen has a dream about murdering Johnny. There is a shot of the creamery floor, and someone wearing the creamery uniform (that we've only seen Johnny in) being dragged as dead weight (I think being dragged by Imogen). This could be real, but I wonder if it's not related to the shot from the earlier trailer where Imogen and Johnny are hugging and she looks very upset (perhaps she dreams that she stabs him, then wakes up upset?)

If this is real, things are not looking good for Johnny.

Then we have a shot of Noa through a hole (the eye hole in the Bloody Rose mask?)

I really don't think there's much in the trailer that links with this shot of Noa, so who knows.

There's a shot of Mrs. Beasley saying, "I pray those girls suffer and burn."

No idea when this is, but Faran also says Mrs. Beasley is her top suspect. The more they point at people, the less I think they did it.

There's a shot of Tabby waking up (looks a lot like the shot of Mouse from the last episode) in what I assume is Christian's bedroom. It's not a location we're familiar with.

Tabby is wearing a different top here from any of the other scenes, and I'm not sure what to make of that. This could be Christian's shirt that she wears after their date shown earlier (Imogen appears to be wearing one of Johnny's shirts in his bed earlier in the trailer, so that would track), or it could be an entirely different day/night.

Here we have a scene where Mouse & Ash seem to be talking about Redemption House. He calls it, "an apocalyptic level of hate." I think this is likely in 2x06 and pretty early in 2x06, but Mouse's outfit doesn't match anything else she wears and Ash does not appear anywhere else in the trailer, so I have no way to confirm this.

Weirdly, Mouse actually seems to be wearing an outfit we saw her in earlier in the season (when she finds the rose), so I don't know if this was originally supposed to be in an earlier episode and it's gotten moved, or what. I do wonder if it's a re-ordered scene, because Kelly was passing out those flyers several episodes ago.

There's a few shots I want to note that I couldn't fit into this post because of the tumblr limits.

A shot of Christian (he's just wearing his Orpheum uniform, so nothing new to discuss there)

A shot of Johnny (also just wearing his uniform)

A shot of Mouse looking out of her window at night. It's a little difficult to see anything, so I didn't use one of my image slots on it.

The only stuff from the original "Weeks Ahead" trailer that we haven't seen yet are the shots from the Pride event at the pool, Imogen and Johnny hugging at work, and the girls walking into a location that I do not recognize at all.

So that's what is in the trailer, here's my takeaways.

If everyone is getting a test this season, I think Tabby's will be next and Imogen's will be last. Imogen and Rose in her mother's bedroom feels a bit like Archie chasing Imogen in season 1.

This trailer points so hard at Dr. Sullivan and Mrs. Beasley, that makes me feel they are likely red herrings. I've liked the Mrs. Beasley theory for a long time, but Faran directly calling it out in the trailer is pretty blunt.

No sign of several characters that presumably do have scenes, since their arcs are completely unresolved. No Jen or Shawn. No Wes. No Rebecca or Imogen's dad. No Mrs. Langsberry (unless her name being written down counts). No Mouse's grandmother. Obviously they have to deal with the Jen/Noa/Shawn stuff, so interesting that we see none of it. I also don't know why they would introduce Rebecca and then never have her reappear, so that would be weird. I definitely expect to see more of Wes, but that's also because he is one of my top suspects.

I'm wondering if Jen is a big part of the online Bloody Rose Cult. Out of the new love interests, we've spent the most time on her outside of her romance from Noa (her stealing, her mom being an addict, her dad being a "rich pharma bro," the bail money, etc.) and regardless of how honest (or not) that she's being, it would be weird for none of that to be plot relevant. The way she asked Noa about the Millwood Massacre in her first episode raised some red flags (it felt like she was pretending not to really know what that was about), and we know she's not from Millwood, but has come here for summer school (which could easily be on purpose), so I'm wondering how that could fit in. The shot of Noa (that looks like it's maybe through Rose's mask) could be her finding a BR mask in Jen's things. The Bloody Rose Cult people seem to be wearing various versions of the mask when they are chasing the girls. Jen also has a similar fashion sense to a lot of the online cult members we've seen.

I haven't forgotten about Chip's mom. I understand why a lot of people are suspicious of her (and she fits some major horror tropes), I just don't like that we haven't seen her like at all this season. So I don't know how to feel about that. But Tabby's arc surrounding Chip doesn't feel totally complete (the way she experienced flashbacks of him when working on her short and how she's still feeling the consequences of his betrayal in a way that Imogen doesn't appear to be), so I do acknowledge that.

We get very little Ash, Henry, or Greg in this trailer, so I have taken note of that as well. It doesn't specifically make me any more suspicious of any of these characters than I already was, because they don't really have a lot going on outside of the girls. Henry not having much left to do this season wouldn't surprise me. Greg will be around, I think, but he does still feel like a background character. I've mentioned my mental tug of war around Ash and his screen time several times, but considering how background Mouse has felt for a lot of this season, it's not entirely weird.

Probably not important, but based off of his bedroom, Johnny is really into music & I'm still holding out hope they might let him sing at some point. I don't see where that fits, but let me dream.

Also, speaking of his room- Johnny's room is absolutely packed with album covers, posters of bands and musicians, musical instruments, etc. and the set design is pretty maximalist in general in this show, so it can be hard to know what matters, so this probably doesn't. But he also has a giant ass poster of Edgar Allen Poe on his wall?? which like... is probably just a set design choice, but feels weirdly out of step with the rest of his room.

I don't think this trailer has vastly shifted any of my opinions, but I will be excited to see how correct I am about my timeline and guesses.

As always, if you have any thoughts opinions you'd like to share, let me know!

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jellybeanium124 · 8 months ago

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maybe it's time for me to make a post about izzy's redemption arc as a jar guy who's been a fan of the bastard since season 1.

prior to season 2 airing, I was redemption arc neutral. I thought that a redemption arc could be good, but a "get even worse" arc could also be good. my ideal izzy ending was him leaving ed to go be a pirate on his own after realizing that they couldn't fit together in any healthy way. I wrote a fic about this.

anyways, they completely fucked the redemption arc up. I don't have too much of a problem with 2x01-2x04, despite the major issue of izzy suddenly understanding his feelings for ed and being able to physically say out loud to ed "I have... love, for you." I mean, it's a fantastic line and con delivers it perfectly, I just wish it hadn't happened in the first 15 minutes of the season. like imagine placing this line somewhere else? what if it was in 2x02 instead, aka The Edizzy Episode Ever aka The Episode That Made Me Interested In The Edizzy Dynamic. like ok ok ok ok. ed gives izzy the gun. he goes and stands like jesus in the light on the cross. izzy shakily holds up the gun, but then he laughs. he laughs and then cuts himself off and then he chokes down a swallow and says "I have... love, for you, Edward." imagine being ed in that moment. isn't that super fucked up? isn't it glorious? imagine hearing that when all you want to do is die?? like WAUGHHHH right?

anyways, moving on.

I do like 2x05. I think it's a just a really fun chill episode and my exact flavor of TV that I like. I call it "11 short films about the Revenge" because it's structured in a series of loose snippets and scenes. I do enjoy the izzy & stede stuff in this episode (izzy slaps stede's ass lmao how could I not enjoy it?) but it's really the episode where issues with how izzy is redeemed start to come to light.

why is he so good at not being an asshole? izzy, for the most part, doesn't fall back into old habits. he'll make the occasional uncomfortable comment, or walks up to wee john looking like he's gonna say something homophobic, but he doesn't. sure, he can't move as fast or as well as he used to, but he used to have no issues pushing the crew, and he never trips up. he's just so goddamn open too! I get that accepting the leg is like, a metaphor for accepting the crew, but it'd be cool if izzy had trouble actually doing that. in s1 izzy is so socially awkward, and he clearly is not a people person. Why didn't he struggle with being accepted, an entirely new feeling? Why didn't he try to remain a loner, just a little bit? HOW ON EARTH DID HE GET TO THE POINT WHERE HE COULD DO DRAG IN PUBLIC??

my favorite flavor of steddyhands in fic, and I promise this is related and I wouldn't say that if it wasn't relevant, is the kind where stede and ed conspire to flirt with izzy and izzy is a complete dumbass who doesn't know what's going on. izzy in these fics is trying to be better, but he doesn't know how. he constantly struggles to voice his feelings, he struggles to change his old toxic thought patterns, he struggles with openness and vulnerability. how come izzy didn't struggle with that in the show? he spent 50-something years being closed off to the world, and now he can open himself up with no issues?

that's how you "redeem" izzy and keep him fundamentally izzy. he's trying to be less of an asshole, but he's not really great at it. he wants to learn how to open himself up, but he's never done it before. he's still a loner at heart. he's still socially awkward. he still has toxic assumptions to work through. my izzy, my ruthless bastard rat man, was replaced in the show with a clone and then that clone was killed.

I understand that doing this right would require more time. I wish they got that time. and I wish they did something different with the time they had.

#ofmd #our flag means death #izzy hands

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thieves-never-say-die · 10 months ago

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WHY IS THEIR END SCENE A ROMANTIC CANDLELIT DINNER IF IM NOT SUPPOSED TO READ INTO IT

Rewatching The Walk In The Woods Job and you cannot tell me that Eliot and Paul weren’t a thing. I don’t believe it

#like!!!!!#redemption #walk in the woods job #r 2x05

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kajaono · 9 months ago

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I love Eliot focused episodes so much. Kane is always the hitter but he is so good when he is allowed to open up and show Eliot’s emotional side

#eliot spencer #christian kane #leverage #leverage redemption #leverage redemption season 2 #leverage redemption 2x05

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imminent-danger-came · 1 year ago

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What do you think are some of LMKs most prevalent themes are? besides the power of friendship of course

I'll just throw 'em into a list!

Fate VS Freewill / Destiny (2x05, 2x10, 3x10, EYD, 4x07-4x10 ; characters love to run from destiny/the narrative in lmk)

Identity ("You are not the Monkey King" "You're right—I'm the Monkey Kid!" ; "This thing, whatever you are, embrace it. Embrace your destiny." ; etc.)

(Bonus post where I point out how Destiny and Identity get a little too closely linked for my comfort)

Self-worth/Self-Reflection [Kind of a subset of Identity] ("Just believe in yourself! Even a smidge makes all the difference")

Companionship as Salvation ("As long as we stand together, there will always be hope!" ; "You're the one always running off! [...] You're the one who wouldn't quit while we were ahead!")

Exchange ("You don't know, we'd risk it for sure! I won't abandon them when they need us." ; "I'd do anything for my friends! But at the cost of the world?" ; "This is Azure's utopia, and this barren wasteland is the price he paid to build it.")

Not knowing what to do and how to move forward with that.

Pain being inevitable ("Don't you realize you're hurting the people who care about you the most?" ; "All my lady ever desired was a world no longer plagued by pain" ; "No matter what I do, it’s going to lead to pain.")

Perfection being unachievable (1x05, "You can't judge things by their worst quality!" ; "A perfect world is what you make it. So as long as I have my friends by my side...this world, is, perfect!" ; "Look around brother! This is not the change we dreamt of.") But there also being beauty in imperfection. The imperfect being worth fighting for.

Heroism (Perception VS Reality) ("Sometimes the path of the hero may seem chaotic and directionless" ; Heroes "inevitably bring darkness to those they hold dear" rip. ; "But it took me far too long to learn what real heroes look like.")

Trust ("That Monkey is not to be trusted!" ; "We trusted you! All of us!" ; "He's a villain MK! We never should have trusted him.")

Power and the point of having it ("Now do you understand? From the start you never had what it took to defeat me. All your power could do was make me stronger." ; "I needed something so powerful even she wouldn't be able to win—a weapon." ; "Only we decide who we are and what we do with the power we have!" ; "But it wasn't in my power—it was in yours.")

Change ("Forever's a long time bud." ; "But we can't! Not after all we've seen—all we know and all we don't?" ; honestly just look at s1 vs s4)

Legacy (*gestures at pilgrims* ; "MK, from the moment you picked up the staff their stories became our stories—it's our responsibility to write the final chapter, no matter the outcome." ; "Why would our legacy be any different? Actually no no—the chaos and destruction we'll bring upon the world will make Wukong's past look like nothing.")

Leaving the world a little better than you found it (even and especially in spite of your mistakes and shortcomings)

and of course the Power of Friendship (plus the themes Tang literally lists in 3x14 "We're comforted by familiar tales of friendship, courage, redemption.").

#ultimately I feel like lmk is a show about people coping with the world in their own ways #The world is scary and there are a lot of bad things in it and how do you deal with that #did not bother to look these quotes up we die like men #also this is in no way a comprehensive list lol #Remember when the name Monkie Kid was fun.#Remember #asks #lmk #lego monkie kid #lmk themes

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