#read harley quinn rebirth

[belletra]

newly obsessed with poison ivy, she's my everything 🌱💚

[themyscirah]

Leaks looking like after War Journal ends that creative team is going to be split between Batman & Robin (PKJ, with Javier Fernandez on pencils) and Green Arrow (Montos, with DC newcomer* Chris Condon on script), which should be interesting I think

Also looking like GA is going to get an annual w Williamson and Izaakse, as well as maybe going to legacy numbering, at least for an issue or so (#350)

*newcomer to regular DC writing, from his credits it looks like he's written one story for a DC anthology before (Harley Quinn BW&R)

Leaked solicits under the cut

[lazaruspiss]

any horny hal jordan comics to recommend me?

GOD I WISH. unfortunately i am a "rotate my blorbo in the microwave of my minds eye" kind of guygal u know. Yes im a dc fan. No i dont read. We exist. (My reading list is a nightmare. It's an entire spreadsheet.) I wanna read hal's spectre arc bc it seems like its got weird gender and ghost stuff goin on which is soooo 💕💕💕

[shecarnionmyval]

this red tool guy pissin me off . IM harley’s biggest fan

[afrotunada]

incomplete list of fun and interesting things I've learned about Jason Todd through my scattered readings and late night googling

One time, he was sooo desperate for affection and validation, he was willing to risk it all after an accidental, spur of the moment kiss with Barbara Gordon in Three Jokers Issue #2. Alas, he was thwarted by a janitor, the poor bastard...(much to everyone's relief I'm sure) (Batman: Three Jokers)

Batman: Three Jokers Issue #3

In addition to statuesque amazons (Artemis), blonde bombshells (Isabel Ardila), white-haired beauties (Essence and Rose Wilson), and Dick's ex-girlfriends, Jason also likes smart, curvy ladies ;) selfshippers rejoice! (although I myself am not so curvy, his love of normal girls is a positive in my book<3) (Red Hood: The Hill)

Jason hooking up with Dana's friend and employee Carmen Ortega while Dana herself (as Strike) gets her shit rocked by her other (former) friend and employee Omar (as Slayer) on the other side of town - as one does. Red Hood: The Hill Issue #2

One of Jason's first overtures at rejoining the Batfam was made in the New 52 relaunch of the 2011 comic Batman Incorporated, where he takes on the persona of Wingman at the behest of Bruce. He even teams up with Damian Wayne (going by Redbird at the time), forming their own very brief Batman & Robin-esque pair! Also, they both looked kind of ridiculous... [apparently, takes place sometime during Red Hood and the Outlaws Vol. 1 (2011-2015), around issues 17 and 18 and Death of A Family, but before Damian's death and his own Joker-induced gas coma. weird ass timeline!] (Batman Incorporated (2012))

Yes, that is, in fact, Jason in that getup. It's giving Cybercop Owlman. Peak fashion, actually. Batman Incorporated (2012) Issue #4

(as an additional aside, post New 52 and into the Rebirth era, Jay and Bruce start patching things up (kinda) and enter a truce of sorts starting in the Red Hood and the Outlaws: Rebirth one-shot from 2016. Yay!)

In the Elseworld of Batman: White Knight (also known as the Murphyverse for it's creator - Sean Murphy), Jason Todd is the eldest son instead of Dick Grayson, meaning that he was actually both the first Robin, and Bruce's first adopted son! He was still captured and tortured by the Joker tho....he escaped alive, but was presumed dead and given a burial and tombstone - as in the main universe - and Dick was taken on as Robin in his "absence." Poor guy! He can't catch a break even in AUs! BUT!! He does gets his own Robin sidekick in this universe - Gan! (also known as Robin IV, a young woman of Mongolian descent who took up the mantel herself with a homemade costume (similar to Stephanie Brown)). In fact, she's the one who encourages him to become Red Hood in the first place! (Batman: White Knight)

Harley Quinn is a primary protagonist of this universe, btw, and pretty much saves Jason from being killed Batman: White Knight Issue #2

Gan is my adorable daughter and Jason (the messy bitch as she calls him) deserves his own chaos gremlin apprentice<3 Panel 1 - Batman: White Knight Presents: Red Hood Issue #1 Panels 2 & 3 - Batman: White Knight Presents: Red Hood Issue #2

Speaking of AUs and elseworlds, in 2002's World Without Young Justice, Jason Todd was a circus acrobat, as per his original pre-crisis origin (minus the red hair). In this AU, he's dating fellow circus member Anita Fite (normally Empress, but here known as Voodoo Princess), but she ends up assassinating him at the behest of his step-mom, Catherine Todd, because he discovered his parents dirty business dealings with Killer Croc. What the hell Catherine? (Young Justice Vol. 1 - World Without Young Justice, Part 1: The World What Once We Knew)

Young Justice (1998) Issue #44 - World Without Young Justice, Part 1: The world What Once We Knew

Anyway! This isn't comprehensive or anything, just a post made in fun to put together some things about Jason that I think were funny/interesting that the fandom doesn't know/talk about much. Might add more later if I come across other stuff during my readings (maybe not for a while tho; I am currently consumed by World's Finest and following the Absolute Power event).

But yeah! Feel free to add on if you like! :)

[poisonousquinzel]

Origin

Harleen (2019) [Comic]

Harley Quinn: Mad Love [Novel]

The New Batman Adventures "Mad Love" [Episode]

Villain -> Emancipation Arc

Batman: The Animated Series

"Harlequinade", "Harley & Ivy", "Harley's Holiday"

Batgirl Adventures (1997)

Detective Comics #831

Harley Quinn: Wild Card (Backstories). [Book]

Batman: Gotham Adventures #10

Batman Secret Files: The Gardener

Injustice: Year Zero #7 - #8, #14

Unofficial Continuation Of Harleen (2019)

Harley Quinn (2000) #1, #2, #4, #6, #12

Harley Quinn: Black + White + Red #1, #3, #14

"Harleen: Red", "Get Yer Story Straight", "Fixer Upper"

Harley Quinn: Make Em Laugh #1, #2

"Headshrink", "Housewarming", "The Lady or The Tiger"

Harley Quinn: Black + White + Redder #2

#2: "Origin Stories For Dummies", [skip middle story], "Coffee And Pie Oh My"

Batman (2016 - ) #105

---

Notes {Mild Spoiler Warning}

Batman (2016 - ) #105

This is in the middle of a story arc, but it doesn't really matter. Only context you need for Harley's part is that she, Batman and a kid named Bao (Clownhunter) were knocked out and brought to Arkham as a part of a separate conflict between Bruce and someone. ❤️

Harley Quinn: Black + White + Red

The first chapter, "Harleen: Red", is connected to and takes place in the Harleen (2019) universe. Best read after Harleen and the unofficial continuation.

The continuation is just parts that Stjepan has posted online over the years, I tried my best to put them in an order that flowed. <3

Batman Secret Files: The Gardener

The full comic isn't Harley centric, but I absolutely adore the way Bella tells the tale of Ivy's origin & meeting Harley, it's a cute part showing their relationship.

Harley Quinn: Wild Card (Backstories)

This one is kinda like a somewhat more detailed cliff notes for kids. Parts of her origin is different and aligned with her Rebirth one, but I think it's great to get a feeling of how her character progresses. Though like I said, it is definitely for a preteen & younger audience so some stuff is watered down. Her relationship with Joker isn't as graphically abusive (he's a toxic little bitch, but not shown being directly physical with her.), and her introduction into the Suicide Squad is more chill and something she agrees to do.

But even with that, I love it! It's got pencil sketches throughout, notes from Harley herself which I think is a lovely detail and added bits about her relationship with Ivy over the years.

Harley Quinn (2000)

#6: this is kinda the beginning of a two chapter plot, but I'm including for stuff in this chapter only.

Also, her characterization during one part that involves Bruce's female bodyguard feels ooc imo, especially considering it's the same writer from #2.

[cazzam]

THE NEW AND IMPROVED CASSANDRA CAIN READING GUIDE

Cassandra Cain is the daughter of assassins David Cain and Sandra Wu-San (better known as Lady Shiva), and was raised by Cain. She is an expert hand-to-hand combatant, and able to read body language to the point of interpreting complex thoughts, but learning to communicate better through speech and text. She has operated as a vigilante under the names of Batgirl, Kasumi, Black Bat, and Orphan, and is currently sharing the title of Batgirl with Stephanie Brown and Barbara Gordon.

Basic Reading

Batgirl (2000)

Batman: Gates of Gotham (2011)

Detective Comics (2016) #934-987

Batman and the Outsiders (2019)

Batgirls (2021)

Spirit World (2023)

Birds of Prey (2023)

Cassandra's major appearances are listed in chronological order (mostly) under the cut. My favorites are bolded.

No Man's Land

All issues collected in Batman: No Man's Land (2011) vol. 2-4. I recommend reading the entire event.

Batman (1940) #567 [first appearance]

Detective Comics (1937) #734

Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight #120 [Cassandra takes up Batgirl mantle]

Azrael: Agent of the Bat #56-57

Batman (1940) #569

The Batman Chronicles #18

Azrael: Agent of the Bat #60-61

Robin (1993) #73

As Batgirl

Issues that are part of events may be confusing out of context.

Batman: Gotham Knights #2, 5

Batman: Gotham City Secret Files and Origins [first story]

Batgirl (2000) #1-2

Young Justice (1998) #21

Batgirl (2000) #3-11, 12 [Officer Down start]

Birds of Prey (1999) #27

Catwoman (1993) #90 [Officer Down end]

Batgirl (2000) Annual #1, #13-19

Harley Quinn (2000) #10

Robin (1993) #88 [first meeting with Stephanie Brown]

Batgirl (2000) #20, 21 [Joker: Last Laugh start]

Joker: Last Laugh #3

Supergirl (1996) #63 [transphobia cw, Joker: Last Laugh end]

DC First: Batgirl/Joker

Batgirl (2000) #22-23, 24 [Bruce Wayne: Murderer? / Fugitive start]

Robin (1993) #98

Batgirl (2000) #25-29

Batman (1940) #605 [Bruce Wayne: Murderer? / Fugitive end]

Batgirl: Secret Files and Origins

Batgirl (2000) #30-32

Batman: Gotham Knights #33, 35

Batgirl (2000) #33-38

Batman: Family #7

Detective Comics (1937) #782 [backup], 790

Nightwing (1996) #81

Superboy (1994) #85 [first meeting with Kon-El/Conner Kent]

Batgirl (2000) #39-44

Batman: Gotham Knights #42, 45-46, 48-49

Robin (1993) #119

Batgirl (2000) #45-47

Superman/Batman #5

Batgirl (2000) #48-50

Birds of Prey (1999) #61, 63

Batgirl (2000) #51-53

Solo #10 [third story]

Detective Comics (1937) #796 [backup]

Robin (1993) #127-128

Batgirl (2000) #54

War Games

All issues collected in Batman: War Games (2015). I don't recommend reading the entire event.

Detective Comics (1937) #797

Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight #182

Nightwing (1996) #96

Batgirl (2000) #55

Batman (1940) #631

Batgirl (2000) #56

Nightwing (1996) #98

Batgirl (2000) #57

Batgirl in Bludhaven

Robin (1993) #132 [Fresh Blood start]

Batgirl (2000) #58

Robin (1993) #133

Batgirl (2000) #59 [Fresh Blood end]

Batman Allies: Secret Files and Origins 2005 [third story]

Batgirl (2000) #60-73

With the League of Assassins and Deathstroke

I don't recommend reading anything in this section except Batgirl (2008) #6.

Robin (1993) #148-151, 161-162

Supergirl (2005) #14

World War III #2

Teen Titans (2003) #43-46

Batman and the Outsiders (2007)

Batgirl (2008) [recap of this era. Bruce adopts Cassandra]

As Black Bat

Battle for the Cowl: The Network

Batgirl (2009) #1 [Cassandra gives Batgirl mantle to Stephanie]

Red Robin #17

Batman Incorporated (2011) #6

Red Robin #25

Batman: Gates of Gotham

As Orphan

The New 52 reboot changed Cassandra’s origins, personality, and relationships with other characters. Rebirth was a soft reboot that kept New 52 canon but brought back elements from the previous continuity.

Batman and Robin Eternal #1-9, 11-14, 17-26 [New 52]

Detective Comics (2016) #934-940 [Rebirth]

Batman (2016) #7 [Night of the Monster Men start]

Nightwing (2016) #5

Detective Comics (2016) #941

Batman (2016) #8

Nightwing (2016) #6

Detective Comics (2016) #942 [Night of the Monster Men end], 943-962

Red Hood and the Outlaws (2016) #15

Detective Comics (2016) #963-964

Batgirl and the Birds of Prey #15-17

Detective Comics (2016) #965-981, 983-987

Batman and the Outsiders (2019)

DC: The Doomed and the Damned [seventh story]

Batman: The Joker War Zone [second story]

Batman (2016) #104

Return of Batgirl

The Infinite Frontier reboot considers all past continuities canon.

Infinite Frontier #0

Batman Secret Files: The Signal

Batman: Urban Legends #3, 5, 7, 8, 10, 14

The Joker (2021) #3-4, 7, 11-12, 15

Detective Comics (2016) #1038 [backup], 1049, 1052, 1057

Batman (2016) #112 [main], 115-116 [backups]

Nightwing (2016) #85-86

Batman (2016) #117 [backup]

Batgirls #1-6

Task Force Z #8

DC Pride: Tim Drake Special

Robin (2021) #15

Detective Comics (2016) #1061

Batgirls #7

Catwoman (2018) #45

Batgirls #8-12

Batman One Bad Day: Two-Face

Tim Drake: Robin #4

Batgirls Annual 2022, #13-19

Lazarus Planet: Dark Fate [fourth story]

Spirit World (2023)

Birds of Prey (2023) #1- [ongoing]

Detective Comics (2016) #1084 [backup]

Other Appearances

Ghost/Batgirl [Dark Horse Comics crossover]

Batman: Outlaws #2

Batman: City of Light [not recommended]

Justice League Elite [as Kasumi]

Wonder Woman (2006) #600 [second story]

Batgirl (2016) #50 [third story]

DC Festival of Heroes [first story]

Truth & Justice #6 [#16-18 digital first]

Alternate Universes

Tiny Titans #33, 39, 43, 45

Batgirl: Futures End

Convergence: Batgirl

Harley Quinn and the Birds of Prey (2020)

DCeased: Unkillables / Dead Planet #5 / War of the Undead Gods

Shadow of the Batgirl [YA graphic novel]

Dark Knights: Death Metal Robin King [backup]

Future State: The Next Batman #2, 4 [second stories]

Batman: Wayne Family Adventures [webtoon]

DC vs. Vampires

Dark Knights of Steel #9

Last updated: April 23, 2024

[dreaduquesne]

I need to go back in time and show the me that just got finished reading Harley Quinn #8 from the Rebirth series that it gets better for Harlivy. WE MADE IT OUT THE MUD BITCH!

[fantastic-nonsense]

Harley Quinn's insane popularity during the mid-2010s is a super interesting phenomenon precisely because her abrupt rise in popularity was less about her unique appeal as an individual character and more about everything else DC Comics was doing at the time

Harley's New 52 aesthetic revamp from her classic harlequin costume to a corset, booty shorts, and two-toned hair happened entirely because people loved her look in the Arkham games and DC was trying to capitalize on it. Also almost entirely on the basis of her popularity in those games (and because the company was in desperate need of positive PR after mass criticism about their treatment of female characters in the early New 52, including Harley), editorial greenlit a solo book for her.

Her 2014 solo book outsold most of DC's line partially because of the character, story, and the creative team of course; there's no way it could have been that successful without people liking those things. But its success was massively helped by Harley being one of the few characters who (outside of Glass's Suicide Squad run, which was promptly yeeted into oblivion and never mentioned again) wasn't completely fucked over by the reboot and whose book DC editorial largely left alone during the notoriously micromanaged New 52 era.

She also had one of the few decent "fun" books at a time when DC's offerings were mostly either grimdark and edgy, disliked, or doing something radically different with their protagonists than normal (for example...Lobdell's Teen Titans and Red Hood and the Outlaws, making Supergirl a Red Lantern, and having Dick Grayson fake his death and go undercover as a super spy), making Harley Quinn a breath of fresh air for anyone seeking to escape the melodrama of Forever Evil, Future's End, and Convergence or find a new book after the ones they were reading ended or became unpalatable.

Over in the DCEU, people had two lukewarm movies they weren't really that excited about despite starring DC's Trinity. And then you got Suicide Squad, which was kinda hot garbage and a critical failure but made bank and had the wonderful Margot Robbie playing Harley Quinn. No one else really made it out of that movie looking good, but Margot's depiction of Harley was widely praised and her look in that movie became wildly popular, selling tons of merch. So DC went "oh she's a seller!" and then greenlit the Harley Quinn cartoon and Birds of Prey 2020 while generally refusing to acknowledge that the lack of decent DCEU movies overall, Robbie's performance compared to her co-stars, and Harley's grunge Hot Girl look were the main drivers of Harley's seemingly unique popularity following the movie's release.

Basically: Harley got incredibly lucky because she got a major internal editorial push as a character at the exact same time basically every other character whose comics would have normally outsold hers got fucked over, and then got lucky twice when DC cast Margot Robbie to play her in Suicide Squad while the movie's Hot Topic Aesthetic™ was still somewhat en vogue.

Combine those two things with the fact that her relationship with Poison Ivy (an A-list Batman Rogue) was confirmed at the same time same-sex marriage was legalized and DC was looking to promote a diverse character slate...and you get the wild popularity she's enjoyed since ~2012 that nonetheless is obviously starting to slowly return back to base levels. Which you can tell when you look at, for example, Harley's sales numbers post-Rebirth/Infinite Frontier (since facing actual competition from DC's staple characters) and the number of new Harley-led projects that have been greenlit since the 2020 management massacre that took out Didio.

At the end of the day, The Harley Phenomenon is less about Harley Quinn and more about what happens when a company capitalizes on a character's aesthetic appeal and Cool Girl Status while largely abandoning the goal of making quality content starring the rest of their staple characters. She's certainly popular on her own and has individual appeal, but she never would have achieved the level of mainstream popularity she's enjoyed over the past 10 years without an astounding set of major coincidences all falling in her direction.

[poisonivysource]

Hi can you recommend me some comics? I'm new to comics but i already saw batmen:hatley&ivy, harely quinn and poison ivy, poison ivy cycle of life and death, poison ivy thorns, neil gaimen's secret origin, gotham city sirens and on-going series.(I'm still catching up pre on-going arc as you recommended) I read most famous ones. And i just wanna read some comics even if ivy isn't main character, still have good arc.

sure. here are some favorites of mine:

batman legends of the dark knight (1989) #42 & 43 “hothouse”

batman/poison ivy: cast shadows (2004)

[no man’s land]

batman: shadow of the bat (1992) #88 “fruit of the earth part 1”

batman (1940) #568 “fruit of the earth part 2”

detective comics (1937) #735 “fruit of the earth part 3”

batman: harley quinn (1999)

detective comics (1937) #751 "a walk in the park part 1"

detective comics (1937) #752 "a walk in the park part 2"

[nu52]

batgirl (2011) annual #2 “when pamela gets blue”

[rebirth]

sensation comics featuring wonder woman #31 #32

all-star batman (2016-2017) #7 “ends of the earth part 2”

new talent showcase 2017 “silent screams”

batgirl and the birds of prey (2016) #12-17 #19 #21-22

[popculturebuffet]

Supermay!: Superman Vs the Elite: Chunky Greatness (Comissioned by Brotoman.exe)

Hello all you happy last sons, daughters and that beautiful rainbow inbetween of krypton and welcome back to SuperMay! Last time I took a look at a true classic in superman's long history What's So Funny About Truth Justice and the American Way? You can find that review here

What's So Funny... was a rousing sucess, not only leading to Manchester Black coming back a few times, but the elite getting their own justice league spinoff i've never read. Black would also show up quite a bit post-rebirth, before his recent death so Lex Luthor could make everyone forget Superman's secret identity.. or else. Note that this is lex trying to HELP superman. Lex can't even try to do good without doing a murder, suprising no one.

Despite his promience though so far Black has only shown up thrice in other media: In the arrowverse for Supergirl, in the lego batman games, and in today's subject. While it was likely hard to put black in kid shows because his job, hobby and what gets him off at night are all murder, DC had another way to animate this wanker and adapt this story: The DC Universe Animated Movies

Yeah while many a nerd know of them and i'm sure most nerds reading this post know, a refresher: the DC Universe Animated Movies are direct to video movies put out by dc multiple times a year. They've been doing this since 2007 Superman Doomsday with July's Crisis on Infinite Earths Part 3 being the 55th film overall. They've adapted tons of stories from the comics: The Death of Superman (Twice!), Justice League the New Frontier (A personal faviorite), JLA Earth 2, JLA Tower of Babel, Batman: Hush, Batman: The Long Halloween, The Dark Knight Returns, Under the Hood, the first two arcs of Batman/Superman, several tales of the green lantern corps stories, Superman: Braniac, Justice League Origin, Flashpoint, Throne of Atlantis, Batman and Son, The Killing Joke, The New Teen Titans: The Judas Contract, Superman: Red Son,Batman Year One and the doom that came to gotham, cumilating in their soon to be completed three part adaptation of Crisis on Infinite Earths. The adaptations vary from fairly loyal, to loose as a goose and ready to gander, but i'ts nice to see so many stories get direct adaptations. Some are better than others sure, but it's nice to see DC's finest on the screen since some wouldn't work for live action, either due to budget or the simple mechanics of running a film shared universe.

So that brings us back around to today's film: Superman Vs The Elite. SVE, and god is it nice to have a story that I can reduce to a simple acronym, is the sixth superman film made for these, fifth if you only count full length ones but Superman/Shazam: the return of black adam is too good not to even at only half an hour. DC tends to focus on it's big cash cows, hence the early films mostly being superman, batman, superman and batman or the justice league, with green lantern being the notable exception as they wanted to cash in on his hit movie with first flight.. then greenlit first flight despite that hit being directly to the face because it made me personally happy. I have to assume. We also got the very first wonder woman film and weirdly DESPITE diana's spike in sucess post her solo film only that one and the godawful bloodlines. The films WOULD loosen up in terms of scope in the late 2010's and 2020's, with films for the Teen Titans, Justice Society, Suicide Squad, Justice League Dark, Harley Quinn and Constantine, but it's still very bat and league heavy.

Out of the 55 films so far (counting the soon to be released Crisis Part 3), 15 star batman (including the Batman/Sueprman Duology) and a whopping FORTY OUT OF 55 FILMS, 43 out of 58 if we count stuff they weridly left out like the RWBY crossover and the choose your own adventure adaptation of batman. I love batman but my god give him a fucking break dc.

Anywayas point is they love their man of tommorow too, and it's telling out of a collection of his more recent and influentual stories this one got called up for adaptation, others before this being his death and return (which , once again, got adapted AGAIN for a fuller adaptation later on.. and yes I own both adaptations), the two big opening arcs of Batman/Superman, the all-time classic and goat All-Star Superman which I plan to cover next supermay (And would gladly cover earlier on comission or if I had the time), and after this one Braniac, the Geoff Johns classic redefining the character.

This film's also notable is out of the MANY adaptations present it's one of only TWO films to be written by the same writer as the story it's adapting, the other being Judd Winnick on Under the Red Hood. Darwyn Cooke likewise seemed to at least consult on new frontier, which is good as that story is that man's heart and soul and one I'm kicking myself for not thinking to review sooner. Seriously check it or the film out. True masterpiece.

This isn't a knock against the other adaptations, there's a lot of good ones in there, it's just remakrable. it also makes sense why tap Kelly: At this point Kelly had been running Man of Action stuidos for 7 years having co-created Ben 10 and Generator Rex, both shows I highly love, along with Ben 10 spinoff Alien Force which I also dearly loved and was showrun by the late great dwayne mcduffie, who also wrote a lot of direct to video films including what i'm told is a truly excellent adaptation of All-Star Superman I still need to check out.

So Kelly was an experinced hand at animation, and Winnick likewise was, having created and written a decent chunk of the Life and Times of Juniper Lee. So it does make a bit more sense to tap these guys when they know how to screenwrite for animation already.

Kelly does a phenominal job here, expanding the story and making the elitie more fleshed out characters. Their still assholes, but you understand them a bit more and the ones who don't wear a union jack get to actually talk. Also Coldcast is no longer wearing the most unintentionally racist outfit i've seen in an american comic, for the love of god don't send me competitors. The result is a film that's also awesome. Yeah like the story it's based on I won't hide that I loved this film on watch. It's not perfect, what is, but it is still an exellent film that wonderfully expands on an already great story to make it better. So join me under the cut as the world's saved.. but humanity is lost.

SVE is intresting as an adaptation in that it has the same core, a new group of up and coming superheros shows a darker way of doing things superman disapproves of and they come into conflict over it, but takes an entirely diffrent approach to pacing and the elitie themselves. The Original Story hits you lik ea train, starting with a dead gorilla, piling up the bodies nad having the elitie be pretty one note assholes.. they raise valid points, but Manchster is also portrayed as a racist asshole, constantly saying racist shit and then saying "I can say that because i'm one 45th something", something I forgot to bring up in the original review. I mean he's dead on for Mark Millar's version of the Authority, props to that, but otherwise as they are in the original story, the Elitie are just assholes who think they know better and we only get hints of WHY their like this.

The film .. still only gives hints for the non Manchester members, Minager's backstory with the men in black is removed as their absent from the film, but treats them more as people. Not good people by the end, but more as indivduals and it makes the story stronger. We meet the elitie not as swaggering gods, but as swaggering newbies. Their powerful, but at first have no idea what their doing or the true limits of their powers.

So it also gives us a nice dynamic that helps deepens things wholly unique to this film: Superman.. mentors the elite. When he first meets them stopping an attack from warring nations Bialya and Polkistan, which naturally are both very real nations from superman comics. Biyala was a longtime hive of criminals first showing up in one of my all time faviorite comics, Justice League International as a stand in for middle eastern countries, being a small one itself, and picking up traction afterwords while Polkistan was ran by a version of General Zod that wasn't kryptonian. It was a weird time.

This war between the two is a new addition, replacing both the attack on japan and the men in black from the original.. and it's one I like. It fits the Elite better that the thing their interfering in is two warring dictators who don't care who gets hurt in the crossfire and puts more of a face to the ones their caving in. It's easy to say superman could've dealt with super samurai metal men or the worse version of men and black, harder to have him deal with two nations who refuse to just sit down and talk instead of killing civilians to send a message. They still use fantastical means, the Elite first meet clark when he's trying to take down some bioweapons and are key in helping him stop them.

It's also neat to see how both sides greet each other: Superman.. acts how clark always does with a new hero: he's encouraging, kind, and the only negative he has is some gentle cricisim on collteral damage, a nice bit of foreshadowing to the team becoming what it later is. Likewise the eliite are all happy to meet him, with Manchester dropping the swaggering ego he puts up to be genuinely excited like a little kid. Unlike his comics counterpart Manchester still looks up to superman when this starts and it's adorable and humanizes the asshole really well. The others are also mostly starstruck.. except minagre. She's just super horned up. But like in the comics at the time of the original story, Clark's married so, nope.

The rest of the Elitie are fleshed out more here. Manchester's still the focus character and thus the most fleshed out, getting more depth, but the rest of his crew have actual personalities. The Hat is playful and likes to drink a LOT (the last part was in the comic but is more emphasiesed here), Menagire is flirtatious to a creepy and predatory degree (something to the film's credit seems intentioanl) and Coldcast is sarcastic. Their not super deep, but they make the eliite feel like characters and not hired goons.

Superman seeks the elitie out not because their a danger this time.. but because he geninely wants to know them better and help mentor them. We don't get to see Clark mentor often when it's not Kara, so it's another nice addition to the story.

They end up meeting again in London as .. well Manchester Black, while a mystery to the world, wears a flag on his chest and speaks in a cockney accent. Even Black can't help but poke fun at how fucking obvious a step this was, but in another nice touch instead of being touchy welcomes superman into his past, happy to give out his secret origin.

While we got Chester's origin in the comics, this one is more involved and likely what Kelly flehsed out when he wrote the character more later: here he was a tween whose dad was an abusive alchollic rather than a soldier who died in war, the fourth of five kids, his sister the fifth, and none really loved or wanted. He eventually leaves, taking his sister with him for her own saftey and the two scrape by stealing wallets. Unfortunatlaly a constable is lead to them by one of the couples they stole from and the ensuing confrontation, predictably for police, ends with her nearly getting ran over by a train.. till Chester's powers kicked in. Then a bunch of stuff happened he dosen't get into and boom. He HEAVILY implies she died.. but the fact he dosren't say it outright naturally means sh'es alive.

The film wisely plays with this later, revealing that the story is true.. black just sanded off the rougher edges: he KILLED his dad and the train he stopped injured a lot of people. What I like about this though is the lie dosen't come off as Black simply being a manipulative wank phesant. Partially yes, the way he phrases Vera's death is bad.. but it could simply be knowing Superman may not take the news as well, that his hero may abandon him and his friends. Both acts are also gray: he did kill his dad sure.. but we never see the actual act and Chester WAS still a young teenager at the time. He coul'dve easily ratonalized that it was the only way to save his sister. Or simply could've given in to his darker impulses. I'm a lot easier on a scared child whose being acvtively abused than a grown ass man who could've gotten therapy. Same with the train: he knew he could influnce minds from the papa murder but didn't know his telekenisis coudl stretch that far. That one Clark probably would've understood more as growing pains. Finally with Vera it could just be annoyance she didn't join him in quitting the agency or manipulation. I like that the film leaves it vauge instead of making Chester out to just be this massive dick crater. He grows INTO that but i'ts more itnresting to have some ambiguity into how manipulative he was being.

Superman has the elitie help with a nearbye tunnel collapse with a train from terroists.. something their not sure they CAN do as they've only used their powers in combat. Superman however is an excellent leader, it's hinted at the league exists here but wisely they arne't fully mentioned. For all we know he was chairman of the legion at one point and still superboy here. But he's a natural leader and helps the elitie stretch their powers.

The problem is that as much as Superman WANTS to help these new younger hereos learn to be the best they can be... they have diffrent ideas. The divide here is summed up best with this quote from another franchise, from Grant Morrison's incredible run on New X-Men

It's the simple but painful divide that happens as Manchester brutally interrogates a terroist: Superman has his dream of a better world, of inspiring hope to make it so.. and Chester has one of remaking it in his image. Of taking it away from the hands of those he deems to be children playing dangerous war games that end with real bodies strewn across continents. As much as Clark WANTED to guide them.. it was already too late. The world had already made Chester decide what he wanted to be long before he met supes and while he respects the man.. the two ultimately can't coexist. That respect makes Chester more intresting as rather than be just an edgelord who wanted to show up superman, he's simply a 20 something who sees a broken world and has the power to change it and wonders "Why don't we?" instead of seeing it's more complicated than that. By making Chester more of an actual human instead of a mark millar character, it makes the story hit harder and the darker roads he goes down hit harder. IN anotehr world the elitie would've been having teamups with the tians or the justice society, helping make the world better best they can even if they hit harder. Here though... they choose another way.. a way Superman simply can't follow and that puts them at odds. To use x-men again...

Things escalate after two events: Black's message to the world which this time.. we actually get to see which I feel makes it more effective. Having him broadcast to the world "You asked for us world, now you have us". It both instantly puts superman off his game and shows what the Elitie's real plan is.

They also make a welcome change to the attack in japan, now in Biayla: besides the setting being more plot relevant... superman's disabling is unintentional. They still slaughter a bunch of people horrifying clark, but it feels like less of an intentional dick move and fits the change in tone: in the original they were trying to piss superman off. Here it was friendly fire.. but it's clear they've now crossed a line he can't let them keep crossing by slaughting soldiers.

The film is good in asking the question: Should heroes be super proactive and make the world better by force.. or do everything they can within reason? Not buckle to the system.. but not break it over their knees either.

This all brilliantly comes to a head with atomic skull, a plot point i"ve been keeping on the sidelines so let's move it on up front: Before the elitie arrive we get two important events. The first is a dig at superman's cheesiness as Clark lisenses out a very goofy cartoon. I also like when lois presses him on this he points out his procedes ARE going to charity and he has someone looking at it. And he's just so happy to

The more important one is a fight with Atomic Skull. Atomic Skull is a recurring superman villian i'm not super familiar with whose had a dozen iterations... with this version choosing none of them, instead being a remorsless killer with radioactive powers.

He's a good choice though: a villian superman can't depower like certain other parties, who kills and will again and thus brings front and center the biggest part of a debate on the effectivness of normal costumed heroes, a piece somewhat missing from the original with it's faceless goons and men in black: Should a hero kill so a villian dosen't kill again?

The answer Superman gives, and I support is.. no. Gratned i'll add the asterix of "Unless there's no other option". Sometimes your only option is to kill a being or let it kill untold others. Shockingly NOT using x-men for this example, even though I have one ready, let's instead look at Man of Steel. Yes. We're going to THAT scene. And honestly while I have major issues with Man of Steel and most of them involve one man who thankfully chucked himself into a tornado but unthankfully came back as a ghost because god hates me, the idea of the climax isn't one of them.

For those less familiar in the climax Zod, on the verge of defeat, starts letting loose with his eye beams. He's preapred to kill EVERY PERSON he can just to spite clark.. so Clark begs and begs him not to.. and then snaps his neck when it's clear he has no other option. Now do I think having superman kill in his first film was a good idea? no, not at all. But for all Zack Snyder dosen't get Supes... he gets he'd only kill with no other option. If it's this one person or millions in that moment and no where else. No one else could stop zod and he didn't have time or knowledge to incapacitate him. He made the ahrd call and it tore him up. .until it didn't but this is a film where Clark's dad thinks throwing himself into a tornado is more important than clark doing the right thing with his powers sooooo

My point is, unless the situation is that dire.. you shoudln't. If your skilled enough, you can find another way. There's a fine line between doing so because your backed into a corner with no way out.. and diong so because "let's make the bastard pay". It's easier to kill when you have a choice, when you can justify it in your head... and thus it becomes easier. and easier. Until it stops being "because their a genuine threat" and because "They disagree with me". "because it's all I know" or worst of all "because it's fun".

And that all comes together... for the death of the Atomic Skull. The Elitie try to handle it while superman' son the way, get their asses kicked, and are forced to accept his help, despite having humilated him. Our heroes win.. but then comes the breaking point. In the original the killing was just..t here.. but here.. it's been built to slowly, a nicely slow boil over the whole run time: Superman treid his best.. but Manchester Black was a powderkeg waiting to go off.. .and he asks someone to give him a light.

Now remember how I mentioned a UN member was helping superman? Same guy clearly belivied in him and was even shown defending him against Rush Limbaugh. A few more years and it would've been tucker carlson, a good load more and it would'v ebeen.. uh... that other generic white guy they got to replace hm after he got thrown under a bus.

So naturally.. the poor man dies, his son having rushe dout to see his heroes the elitie.. only to instead see his father dies. The following scene is just.. pure pain, it's well done. The kid BEGS superman to kill Atomic Skull.. but he dosen't. It's not what his father would've wanted and would be a stain on his memory. But grief.. grief dosen't care what the person who died wanted... pain dosen't care.. and vengance... dosen't wait. Black, taking advantage of the poor teen, says to "Say the word kid"... and with one do it... Clark can only gape in horror as Atomic Skull dies.. and the crowd ERRUPTS. Only Lois and Jimmy are horrified as a man dies. Did the atomic skull deserve to die? Probably.

He killed a lot of people and you can understand where UN Guy JR was coming from.. yet it dosen't bring his dad back. It dosen't undo all the lives lost. It stops more from being killed.. but also outlines the probelm. People CHEERING for their heroes to kill someone, egging them on, telling them to kill kill. Turning normal people into a bloodthirsty mob who preys fo rthier heroes to kill their enemies. It's the other reason why don't kill: Because it gives the people you inspire the wrong message: that we will solve your problems for you and we will spill blood for you our masses. Pray to your new gods and we will deliver unto you blood.

Now i'm not saying superheroes should never intervene, fuck no, and like I said there are times to kill.. bu tyou see the problem with letting them solve every problem of the world: not only would humanity stagnate, relying on their saviors to do everything for thema nd tell them what to think... but they cease becoming seen as men and become gods. Vengeful gods who can do whatever the fuck they want. It's waht the Manga Death Note and i'ts anime adaptation got at: you let someone be ultimate judge, and they will develop a god complex and what morals they have slip. Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely, and tha'ts why heroes don't give themselves absolute power even if they can move suns.

And it's what the elitie have become: four 20 somethings with a god complex who decide they make the rules and anyone else can die slow die fast now.

This is where the movie dovetails more into the comic as the last act or so adapts it pretty closely, iwth a few bits rearranged: the public starts to cheer the elitie and the scene with the kid saying "superman is so beat"

And clark's talk with ihs dad are in tact, simply done a touch later. Superman's also not AS afraid of the elitie here.

So we payoff the Bialya Polkistan war runner: Superman stops a conlfict with zero loss of life, knowing the elitie are watching.... only this time rather than threaten to kill someone... Manchester did it 20 minutes ago.. or more like two. He just went and killed the heads of state. And the thing was Clark WASN'T sitting it out or planning to let the war go on: he was going to force the two to sit down, an option I badly wish we had in the real world. Instead.. all Chester's done is create a massive power vaccum in two countries already teeming iwth bioweapons and regular weapons. He's removed a diseased lung but taken both countires kidnies, heart and spleen and mugged the patient whlie he was at it. It's the problem with the Elitie's move fast, break things approach: they solve an issue for NOW.. but leave a giant clusterfuck to solve later. And "I'm going to kill you if you don't do better" only works as long as your alive or someone doesn't find a way to kill you for being a tyranical wank phesant.

Superman stews in his fortress.. and the elitie visit and offer him an ultimatium: stay in his lane or else. Clark responds by clocking chester... and Chester decides if your not part of the problem.. etc etc. Tommorow. Noon. Be there.

It's here I want to give some props to Manchester Black's voice actor, Robin Atkin Downes, a vetran voice actor i'd heard of vaugely but didn't really know what parts he played, I haven't gotten around to playing the no more heroes trilogy yet after all. He's done a LOT of dc work including for these films and absolutely kills it as black, bringing that nice combo of arrogance and genuine fire that black has. When you have a character that makes a LOT of grandoise speeches, you need someone who can deliver them with pure power and fire and Downes does so beautifully. Downes gets that right combo of snotty kid and broken man that we need.

We get the lois and clark scene again and i'll say in this film.. Lois is done dirty. She's played by Pauley Perette of NCIS fame, part of DC"s weird obssession with hiring actors from random prime time shows to do the big parts. This film mostly dodges that but she sticks out in a sea of voice actors. At any rate she does her best.. but Lois is just underwritten here. Her needling clark at the start is about th ebest we get: she spends most of the film looking into black's history a good idea.. but her method is just "Scream at mi 6 and hav eblack's sister hand her the goods, then the british government somehow blocks the story despite Metropolis being in america and the US usually not giving that much of a shit." I'd suggest sex blackmail but then the idea of perry white having sex nearly imploded my brain so I won't be going down that rabbit hole. Unless he was fucking bugs bunny, then i'ts impressive. Bugs is a fuck machine.

The climax.. plays out almost exactly as in the comic. While this adaptation changes a lot to make a more compelling story, the end point.. really didn't need to be fucked with. It's remarkable just how much they straight up adapt it. They tone down the violence SLIGHTLY, but only as much as needed to not get this rated R.. if DTV movies get rated r. It' sprobably why bisected Gorilla was left out. RIP Bisected Gorilla

It's chillingly well done. The beat down, superman's hoplesness.. and then... "Thank you". And it's all perfectly delivered by our superman for the evening, George Newbern. Newbern is probably my faviorite superman with close seconds being Tim Daly in Superman the Animated Series (Who Newbern replaced) and Jack Quaid from My Adventures WIth Superman, though Quaid is getting close. I grew up with Newbern's take on justice league, where he evolved Timy Daly's portryal and went on to portray superman a lot when DC neede dhim including in the injustice games.

Newburn nails it here, being the kind, hopeful man we all know.. and then giving us this nightmarish pivot. He makes the wise choice to make superman a soft spoken sadist... to have him not scream at his foes but calmly talk to the elitie as he picks them off one by one. The direction plays this scene like a horror flim and perfectly so, the terror on the Elitei's faces as they each go down, as the killer picks each one off leading it down to blacka nd down to metropolis as the world gazes in horror at what superman has become. It shows what sinking to this level does to you, how EASY it is, and how horrifying it'd be if superman actually did this. We've gotten plenty of "evil superman" takes from Invincible with Nolan to the boys tv show with homelander, that show what an indocirinated good solider or utter bastard with a god complex would do.. but this example still stands out despite all those deconstructions.. because it's clark. Because it's THE superman. It's not someone who wears a similar costume.. it's clark doing it, one of his most recognizable and best performers doing the performance, and it is fucking chilling. The performance was great in the comic.. but it's ASTONISHING here with all the extra florish.

And as before.. it was an act. The film does act like superman actually depowered them all, but I don't think he gave black a lobotomy as the pop is still present and he still zeroes in on the growth his powers come from. So at worst he simply removed a benign growth and at best it was temporary. Some, including tv tropes, think this kinda underminds thing that superman isn't judge and jury.. but I disagree. He didn't kill them, he just took their power away after they'd killed dozens of people and tried to kill him. It's like I said earlier with the superheroes killing thing: if ther'es no other way sure. It's insurance if the elitie hasn't learned there lesson and like the comics he probably coudln't strip them of power permenatnly. It's also why Atomic Skull was a good choice: there's no real way to remove his powers without potetntially killing clark himself, creating a wave of radaition etc. Here.. superman was in a controlled environment for 3/4 and for the last one knew exactly what to do to remove his powers. Superman give shis iconic ending speech about hope and flies off and the movie ends.

This movie.. is a standout, a true classic worth seeking out and most copies aren't super expensive. It takes a great if hard to find story and punches it up considerably, keeping the key points and refining them while making the opposing side less caracatures to make the point stick better. As i've said, Black is accurate to mark millar's writing.. but as a result he's still a strawman. Here he's more a character and the point at large is more fleshed out and naunced: we see the consequences of superman's style of justice.. but then see what would happen if he decided to play it the elitie's way. This film is a true classic and I highly recommend it.

Next Time: Superman fights the Klan as we tackle an old radio serial!

[dailycass-cain]

Cassandra Cain Reading Guide Part 4: Alternate Universe Cass

We've had DCU Cass. We've had Rebirth Cass. But what of Cass from another reality? Well, here's Part IV, a reading list of Alternate Universe Versions of Cassandra Cain!

Part I reading guide you can find here.

Part II reading guide (Modern) you can find here.

Part III reading guide (Random) you can find here. 

Part V reading guide (PAIN) you can find here.

Teen Titans #52-53

- Honorable mention to Titans Tomorrow Cass aka Batwoman, but-- she only shows up in three panels. She is Starroed like many Tomorrow Titans but does cry out to "Huntress" aka an older Charlotte Gage-Radcliffe who gets possessed first).

The curious thing about Titans Tomorrow Universe it is always in flux. Originally, her death (along with others by the hand of Duela Dent) caused the "bad tomorrow". Then the sequel well, cloning happened and Cass came back or the future still happened but now she was alive.

A further "revised" Tomorrow timeline shows up in Detective Comics #979 right after Titans Tomorrow Tim escape Jor-El alongside our Tim and then the two battle for a lengthy period in the present day DCU. #979 shows us the current variant of that future with Cass dying to Ra Al Ghul's hand. But-- we're told this by an unreliable narrator in General and Brother Eye.  As they say, Steph died too, but when we are reintroduced to this timeline (showing how Tomorrow Tim is snatched by Jor-El) she is very much alive.

-DC Bombshells Black Bat-

DC Bombshells United #8, #18-19

- We don't really get a feel for Cassandra's character in this. Other than we see her for a few panels and learn both she and Katana overthrew their corrupt governments and rebuilt them from scratch. Cass leads a group called the "Bats of Blood and Iron" and goes by the Black Bat moniker. 

She's not much a character in this, more a footnote in this story. I feel like if there ever was a spinoff series. We really should get to see Cassandra/Katana more do these things that are mentioned. But.. I probably doubt we ever will. Or amazing variant covers by Ant Lucia.

-DCeased- 

DCeased: Unkillables #1-3 

 DCeased: Dead Planet #1-7

DCeased: War of the Undead Gods #1-8

-  Though Cass doesn't appear in #1 and #4 of Dead Planet. Because the survivors don't come back to Gotham until #2 (when we see Cass again), and #4 (the journey to New Genesis). Cass shows up in #1 and #4 (War of the Undead Gods) so far. 

Unkillables features the first full-on return of Cass's Batgirl costume in over ten years (2009 was the last time she wore it). It also explores the complicated mother/daughter relationship of Shiva/Cass.

Something big happens to Cassandra in Dead Planet. No spoilers (save Stephanie, who's over in DCeased: Hope at World's End), you're just gonna have to enjoy the moment like we did.

A curious little fact is this is the first DC Comic that has a universe that has Cass and Babs both as Batgirl (An infected Batgirl Babs is shown in the original DCeased), and her body is found by Cass and Jim Gordon in Unkillables #1 with both mourning the loss of her.

DCeased: War of the Undead Gods has Cass in the issues throughout but unlike the prior series doesn’t have a key role. Save for two noteworthy things in #1 and #7. That and has an AMAZINGLY gorgeous cover in #6 (a 1:50 variant and good luck finding one of those).

Interestingly, Cass is one out of two Bat-Family members to survive DCeased. Sadly, there could’ve been ONE MORE survivor if only writer Tom Taylor could give us the answer to that. Perhaps one day he will answer that subplot since he hasn’t SPOILED it.  

- Amanda Conner Universe

Wonder Woman #600

Harley Quinn & the Birds of Prey (Black Label) #1-4

   - A DCU similar but different as husband/wife team of Amanda Conner/Jim  Palmiotti various DC books (Power Girl, Harley Quinn, Terra, Starfire, and suggestions related). 

If you were disappointed with the way Cassandra was handled in the live-action Harley Quinn and the Birds of Prey movie this comic gives us a more traditional Cass.

Not only does she steal the series from everyone, but there are exceptionally sweet moments in the final issue. A highly recommended mini to pick up! Cass embarrassing the Joker is worth the price alone!

It’s possible this story takes place either probably after Wonder Woman #600 (which also features Cass by Conner).

Future State 

Future State: The Next Batman #2, 4

Batman: Urban Legends #7

- Alternate future Gotham City where it is ruled tyrannically by a group known as the Magistrate. Rogues and Vigilantes alike are outlawed and hunted by the Magistrate’s chosen deputies and soldiers. Cass is the lone warrior who still follows Bruce’s ideology but is broken with Barbara missing and Stephanie breaking her heart (it is HEAVILY suggested the two had a relationship in this reality).To be entirely truthful, I was massively disappointed with this story. It was like being thrown into the middle of a story. 

Once again, we get Dick acting like a dick to boot.  “Hunter.. or Hunted...” on the other hand features Cass hunted by the Magistrate with exceptional art. Of the two stories THIS IS THE ONE TO READ. Even if it throws you again of not knowing what’s going on. At the very least “Hunter... or Hunted...” gives Cass more pathos and a better overall showing.

There are TWO more tales with this version of Cass in Future State: Gotham. But.. the only important things of those to note is the gorgeous variant cover #6). But please do avoid the other tale that involves FS Cass at the tail end of Future State Gotham. Unless you want PAIN.

Shadow of the Batgirl 

- Literally this comic other than the OG Puckett/Scott run is a remarkable tale that nails the character of Cassandra Cain perfectly. Like literally, you just want a complete origin and character study of Cass/ Why... why is it suddenly raining in my room again? This graphic novel is that good for long time fans of the character. Newbie fans might be interested as it is a one and done (so far). 

Batman: Wayne Family Adventures

Episode 1 "Moving In" (mentioned and acknowledges her adoption)

Episode 2 "The Last Cookie" (first appearance in the series)

Episode 5 "Arm Day"

Episode 7 "Vigilante Bingo" (mentions she's been Batgirl, Black Bat, and Orphan in this universe)

Episode 10 "Crush 3/3" 

Episode 13 "Stupid Traditions" 

Episode 14 "Unaccompanied"

Episode 15-16 "Family Ties"

- First Cass-centric arc in the series. Focuses on Cassandra's love for ballet, and Bruce trying to balance his life as a father and vigilante.

Episode 17 "Top Chef" (Thanksgiving episode)

Episode 19 "Bat-Cow's Day Out"

Episode 21 "Holiday Spirit" (Christmas episode)

Episode 22 "The Tournament"

Episode 32-33 "All Seeing"

- Second major arc focuses solely on Cass. The episodes showcase the many qualities of the character on why are a fan of the character. A good starting point for new readers on the character.

Episode 36-37 "Belonging"

Episode 48 "Shovel Talk"

- Cass and Duke centric episode with the family dealing with the possibility she has a boyfriend. Wackiness ensues.

Episodes 49-50 "One More" (mentioned only) 

Episode 51 "Night In" (Season 1 finale)

Episode 52 Assassin (Season 2 Premiere)

Episode 56 “Why We Fight Part 2″

Episode 57 “Picture Day”

Episode 61 “What Matters Most Part 2″

Episode 66 “No Doors Allowed”

Episode 67 “Branching Out” (Cass/Steph meet Harley/Ivy wackiness ensues)

Episode 68 “Thankful”

Episode 70 “Hunted Part 2″

Episode 72 “Snowfall Part 1″ (part one of Holiday episode)

Episode 73 “Snowfall Part 2″ (part two of Holiday episode)

Episode 78 “Outlaws” (slight tie-in to Red Hood: Outlaw spinoff webtoon comic)

Episode 82 “Sneak Attack”

Episode 90 “What I Want Part 1″

Episode 91 “What I Want Part 2″ (first appearance of David Cain in series, first full appearance of Cass’s Batgirl costume, origin of Cass in this universe.) 

Episode 93 ”Alarm Bells”

Episode 98 “Power Outage”

- Episodes 66-67, and 70 are the Cass-related episodes (so far). We get some amusing sister/brother antics in Episode 66 with Jason/Cass trying to impart their “wisdom” of dramatic entrances to Duke. Only for the later to give his own inclusion how make an entrance. 

Episode 67 has Cass/Steph are watching over a bedridden Harley Quinn and meet Poison Ivy. Amusing adorable hijinks ensue.

Episode 70 reveals Babs making sure Cass/Steph are in on her mission. Showing the trust and bonds the three have with one another. 

- Cass is mentioned in the spinoff series to WFA, Red Hood: Outlaws in episode 46.5 Like Son Part II, Damian records Bruce confessing and then hugging Jason that “I’m sorry. I was wrong.” To save himself, Damian says if Bruce does anything to him, he’ll tell Cass. Bruce relents. 

- Episode 90-91 is Cass’s first central dramatic story in Season 2. She and Damian run afoul of Mad Hatter who brainwashes her to attack her sibling. In part 2 we see Cass’s origin in WFA, as it uses Pre-New 52 David Cain (in his first appearance in the series). Cass breaks free and Damian/her share a cute brother/sister moment afterward.  

DC Vs. Vampires

DC vs. Vampires #2, #4-6

DC vs. Vampires: Hunter #1 (one panel)

DC vs. Vampires #10-11, #12 (in shadow)

- Cass is one of the few heroes in the DCU not taken over or killed by the vampires in this elseworlds story. Problematic art though for the main series sadly given the artist turned out to be very icky.

The writing is a mixed bag as well as Cass was a main character of the plot in the first half of the comic, before being dropped and randomly showing up in the latest issue.

One interesting tidbit of this version of Cass is that she moonlights as both Batgirl and Orphan (but only donning this identity with the Outsiders) in this universe.

Second interesting note is at the end of DC vs. Vampires #12, Cass is one of two people in the Bat-Family in #2 (the other being Alfred) to not have been killed or become a vampire. 

Steph and Helena are also the only other Bat-Family members to have survived as well being human. 

Young Justice

Young Justice: Targets #2-3

- Expands on the Cass introduced in Young Justice cartoon by revealing she knows ASL (I wish this was introduced in the main series). She has a few kickass moments in the comic as well.

However, she only appears in these two issues and that’s it. Only recommended if you enjoyed this version of Cass, and desire to see her storyline somewhat continued. 

Dark Multiverse

Tales of the Dark Multiverse: Hush #1

Batman/Superman Authority Special #1

Dark Knights Death Metal: Robin King #1

In the “Dark Multiverse” there have been three variants of Cass that have appeared. The most “prominent” one among them is the one in Hush. Cass, Tim, and Barbara go down a darker path as they openly rebel against Thomas Elliot and his iron grip over Gotham with not Batman or Bruce Wayne to stop him.

Cass’s costume is a mixture of her Orphan and Kasumi costume. We never get much of her codename as she’s quickly killed by the Gray Son (Dick Grayson who’s been recruited by the Court of Owls). It is implied that this version of her and Tim had a relationship as his name is the last word she utters before collapsing dead.

We’re teased another evil Cass (along with the rest of the Bat-Family) who is part of the Empire of Shadows. Lead by Ra’s Al Ghul (Bruce Wayne) the Empire has taken over their respective Earth and learns of the multiverse. We see this version of Cass once near the end as her silhouette is quite clear in the shadows.

The final Dark Multiverse Cass is the one shown briefly in Dark Knights Death Metal Robin King #1. As the Batman Who Laughs gives Robin King a tour of an Earth where he “tortures” numerous Dark Multiverse Batmen and the survivors become his minions. One of those shown bears a strikingly resemblance to Cass, but the appearance has never been confirmed. 

Injustice

Injustice: Year Zero #2

Though not fully appearing, Cass is namedropped in the prequel story to Injustice comics. It isn’t really known what became of this version of the character. But from the dialogue suggested by Superman to Batman, Bruce/Barbara having mentored her presumably as Batgirl (Babs is Oracle at the start of Injustice).

 Batman: Last Knight on Earth

Batman: Last Knight on Earth Book Three

- Cassandra was originally one of the survivors of Omega’s original assault on the world. She (along with the rest of the Bat-Family) changed their personas to resemble Owls with Cass taking a more Talon-esque costume as shown here (they believed Omega had tainted the Bat mantle/symbol at this point). 

We don’t know much else about this variant of Cass as she along with Tim Drake, Stephanie Brown, Jason Todd, and Kate Kate all perish by Omega’s hand right before a revived Bruce Wayne shows up. 

But hey! Dick Grayson and Barbara Gordon survive. 

..... 

Look I get it they live because they have a kid (who also lives). But it just feels so darn cheap to have the most of the “Bat Family” to die right before Bruce shows up.

It feels so wrong to me and just like a certain someone high up above this creative team had this wet dream to kill them all off to tick off fans. Well, congrats! It worked! 

Dark Knights of Steel

Dark Knights of Steel #6, 9

- No I didn’t forget this alternate Cass. It’s just that well.. we don’t know much fully about her yet save three things. #1 She’s the only Cass who was ever a Robin (a Robin in this universe are the “agents” who serve under Bruce Wayne (aka the Bat Knight) around this world. #2 She’s different then the rest of the Robins (as detailed in Dark Knights of Steel: Tales of the Three Kingdoms #1 they were all a crew of thieves until they caught the attention of Bruce but there was 0 Cass among them) in that we know next to nothing about her connection to Bruce here. #3 She’s placed in a position to free Prince Ka-El as she is the medical professional addressing his wounds but also keeping an eye on him.

Sure enough, she freed Ka-El to prevent the war between the three kingdoms. 

Batman: Knightwatch

Batman: Knightwatch #5

- This one just feels more like an Easter Egg than an actual reference. Though not with the Bat-Family, this Cass is just a normal little girl, who just happens to really like Batman and the Bat-Family. Probably the only normal Cass of them all. But the sass is still there with this one.

Harley Quinn: The Animated Series

Harley Quinn & the Legion of Bats #4-6

- So far recently introduced only in the comics. This Cass is unique among other variants being she’s the same age as Damian. There’s not much know about her yet. Save we know Vixen/Batgirl (Barbara Gordon) were working on a case together that involved Cass.

She bonds with Damian, who in turn opens up being ACTUALLY friendly toward her. This Cass also makes friends with Tiffany Fox (who was targeted in the series by Black Mask). 

Cass adopts her Orphan persona joining Dick, Damian, and Babs on a mission to stop Black Mask from taking over the Gotham Underworld while also having to deal with Poison Ivy and the Legion of Doom. 

After Black Mask is defeated, Wonder Woman is called in to escort this Cass to Themyscira. This Cass is second to one other variant that is raised by the Amazons (the other being the Dark Knights of Steel version).

[soleminisanction]

Hullo, I’m a bit nervous to ask this and I’m terrible with formulating my thoughts so, don’t be hesitant to delete this if it doesn’t make any sense, and I don’t even know if you keep up with more modern comics, but I definitely had fallen out of habit of reading the more recently released stuff and would say I’m a good 2-3 years behind what’s going on in the modern ‘batfam’ so to speak. All my socials still follow a lot of comic bloggers though, and I guess I’ve been getting uneasy because there’s this specific scene of Dick Grayson, Damian, Jason, Bruce, and Duke all eating out together. I don’t even know what comic it’s from sorry, idk if you know what I’m referring to. But it’s not exactly about that one panel or the comic itself, which by all measure seems perfectly fine, but the fact that Tim Drake is missing from what seems like a gathering of Robins seems very… purposeful? Idk.

It made me feel really uneasy. Tim is my favorite Robin but in your opinion, if you do keep up with more modern comics, what do you think? Is he being written out? And like. Besides that, I just keep seeing a lot of fanart and stuff that seems to be replacing the younger brother dynamic that Tim and Dick had with one between Damian and Dick. If anything, I had thought that Damian and Dick had more of a father-son bond and I thought that was the more popular and accepted viewing of their relationship until more recently. I’m just sad :( is this all in my head? I feel like Tim is going to be completely replaced at this pace, but maybe I am just being dramatic.

I'm fairly certain the scene you're thinking of is not from a modern comic. That's a scene with the five of them plus Bruce eating out at Bat-burger, yeah? That's not from a recent b comic, that's from around 2017, the period just after Rebirth started when Tim was presumed dead (because he directed a bunch of drones to attack him to save the city and was seemingly blown up but was actually kidnapped by an interdimensional supervillain and held prisoner for a while) and they actually talk about Tim in that scene, though they think he's dead at the time.

So: yes, it's all in your head. He's not being written out. DC's doing a bit of creative reshuffling right now, refreshing their main books after about two years of the current run. The Bat-fam is a big ensemble and sometimes characters slip into supporting roles for a while. It's natural.

Tim got a lot of spotlight last year and into the beginning of this one as one of the primary supporting cast members in Zdarsky's Batman, plus his solo and DC: YJ while they lasted. During that time, Damian wasn't doing nearly as much -- his solo ended and he was mostly on the back burner while other projects were in production. Now the cards have dealt out that Damian's B&R book happens to be active at the same time as that Trinity Supersons whatever and the Boy Wonder, putting him back in the spotlight. Cass is similarly getting a lot of attention right now, while Steph and Duke mostly just show up as cameos. I don't even know what Jason's doing ATM I don't follow his stuff.

They're an ensemble, cycles like this are natural. Bruce is always going to be the most prominent because he's the goddamn Batman and Dick's by far one of the most consistent best sellers so his ongoing is pretty much secure. For everyone else, flux is a pretty standard state of existence and I wouldn't worry too much. Tim's still making plenty of appearances in things like Harley Quinn (Harley's writer seems to like him specifically) and most recently with Dick in Absolute Power. Nobody's getting written out. You can relax.

[takaraphoenix]

Two passions of mine are lists and family trees/next generations. One of my bigger gripes with the Fandom Wiki is that they will put absolutely everything to be a character category... aside from “next generation”...

So, I’m making my own list of next generation characters from all over the multiverse. Which is ungrateful, to be quite frank, due to how hard they are to find if you haven’t met them personally in a comic yet.

Which brings us to this post. Consider it a WIP as well as an ask for help. If you are as interested in next gen characters as I am, look at the shiny list! If you have read comics including next gen characters not listed here, please tell me the source and name so I can add them!

(Listed in braces behind are home Earth and continuity; if nothing is listed, it’s a child from the main continuity. Also, the list is in alphabetical order by hero alias, so if you want to just check a particular hero, that’s where you’ll find them.)

Children of Aquaman / Arthur Curry / Orin

With Mera:

Arthur Curry Jr. (New Earth main continuity; dead and also erased)

Arthur Joseph ‘AJ’ Curry (New Earth main continuity; erased)

Andrina ‘Andy’ Curry (main continuity since Rebirth)

Arthur Curry Jr. (Earth-12; Batman Beyond; listed separately because this one does not die in infancy but lives to be an adult)

Marina/Mareena Curry (Earth-12; Batman Beyond)

Eldoris Curry (Alternate Future; Justice League: Legacy)

Artur (Earth-16; Young Justice cartoon)

Children of Aqualad / Garth

With an unnamed mother:

Tula (Earth-22; Kingdom Come)

With Dolphin:

Cerdian (New Earth main continuity; dead and also erased)

Children of Batman / Bruce Wayne

Adopted Children:

Richard ‘Dick’ Grayson

Jason Todd

Timothy ‘Tim’ Drake

Cassandra ‘Cass’ Cain

With an unnamed mother:

Bruce Wayne Junior (Earth-3839; Batman/Superman: Generations)

With Diana Prince:

Stephanie ‘Stevie’ Trevor (Earth-3839; Batman/Superman: Generations; stepdaughter, biological daughter of Steve Trevor)

With Talia al Ghul:

Damian Wayne

Ibn al Xu’ffasch (Earth-22; Kingdom Come)

Athanasia al Ghul (Earth-49; Injustice)

With Selina Kyle:

Helena Wayne (Earth-2/Earth-203/Unnamed Earth of Batman/Catwoman)

Aion (Alternate Future; Batman in Bethlehem)

With Kathy Kane:

Bruce Wayne Junior (Earth-154; Super-Sons)

Stepchildren, with Harley Quinn:

Bryce Quinzel (Earth-616; White Knight)

Jackie Quinzel (Earth-616; White Knight)

Due to Amanda Waller’s cloning of his DNA:

Terrence ‘Terry’ McGinnis (Earth-12; Batman Beyond)

Matthew ‘Matt’ McGinnis (Earth-12; Batman Beyond)

Children of Batwoman / Kate Kane

With Renee Montoya:

Jason Todd (adopted; Earth-24; Bombshells)

With Maggie Sawyer: Unnamed Daughter

(Earth-24; Bombshells)

Children of Black Lightning / Jefferson Pierce

With Lynn Stewart:

Anissa Pierce

Jennifer Pierce

Jacob Pierce (Earth-118; Dark Knights of Steel)

Children of Bumblebee / Karen Beecher

With Malcolm Duncan:

Rhea Malia Beecher Duncan (Earth-16; Young Justice cartoon)

Children of Cyborg / Victor Stone

With an unnamed mother:

George Marvin Stone (Alternate Future; Justice League: Legacy)

Children of the Flash #1 / Jay Garrick

With Joan Williams:

Judy Garrick (retconned into the main continuity as of The New Golden Age)

Bartholomew ‘Barry’ Allen (Arrowverse; The Flash TV show; Jay Garrick and Henry Allen as well as Joan Williams and Nora Thompson are confirmed to be doppelgängers, technically making Barry the child of Jay/Joan)

Children of the Flash #2 / Barry Allen

With Iris West:

Dawn Allen

Donald Allen

Nora Allen (Arrowverse; The Flash TV show)

Bartholomew ‘Bart’ Allen II (Arrowverse; The Flash TV show)

With Jessica Cruz:

Jason Allen (Alternate Future; Justice League: Legacy)

Jenny Allen (Alternate Future; Justice League: Legacy)

Nora Allen (Alternate Future; Justice League: Legacy)

Children of the Flash #3 / Kid Flash / Wally West

With Angela Margolin:

Iris West (Earth-22; Kingdom Come)

Bartholomew ‘Barry’ West (Earth-22; Kingdom Come)

With Linda Park:

Iris ‘Irey’ West II

Jai West

unnamed/unborn baby

Children of the Green Arrow #1 / Oliver Queen

Adopted:

Roy Harper Jr.

Mia Dearden

With Chloe Sullivan:

Jonathan Queen (Earth-167; Smallville TV show)

With Dinah Laurel Lance:

Connor Queen (Earth-49; Injustice)

Laurel Queen-Lance (Earth-11)

Olivia Queen (Earth-22; Kingdom Come/Earth-11)

With Felicity Smoak:

Mia Smoak-Queen (Arrowverse; Arrow TV show)

With Samantha Clayton:

William Clayton (Arrowverse; Arrow TV show)

With Shado:

Robert Queen Jr. (New Earth main continuity; erased)

With Sandra Hawke:

Connor Hawke

Children of the Green Arrow #2 / Connor Hawke

With presumably a version of Bonnie King:

Cissie King-Hawke (Earth16 - comics-verse, not cartoon verse, so the continuity of The Just)

Children of Harley Quinn / Harleen Quinzel

With an unnamed partner:

Unnamed Daughter (Earth-12; Batman Beyond; mother to Harley’s grandchildren, Deidra and Delia Dennis)

With Pamela Isley:

Unnamed Child (Earth-24; Bombshells)

With the Joker:

Lucy Quinzel (Earth-49; Injustice)

Bryce Quinzel (Earth-616; White Knight)

Jackie Quinzel (Earth-616; White Knight)

Children of Nightwing / Robin #1 / Dick Grayson

With Barbara Gordon:

John Thomas Grayson (Earth-2)

James ‘Jimmy’ Grayson (Earth-616; White Knight)

With Koriand’r:

Mar’i Grayson (Earth-22; Kingdom Come)

Jacob ‘Jake’ Grayson (Alternate Future; The New Order)

With Unnamed Mother(s):

Elainna Grayson (Earth-12; Batman Beyond)

Thomas Grayson (Alternate Future; Generation Lost)

Children of Red Arrow / Arsenal / Speedy / Roy Harper

With Jade Nguyen:

Lian Harper

Children of Supergirl / Kara Zor-El

Adopted:

Lucy (Unnamed Earth; Last Daughters)

With Brainiac-5:

XTC (Earth-22; Kingdom Come; inofficial name of the character)

With Clark Kent (in-vitro):

Kara Junior (Unnamed Earth; Created Equal)

Children of Superman / Clark Kent / Kal-El

With Diana Prince:

Bruce Kent (Unnamed Earth; Distant Fires)

Jonathan Kent II (Earth-22; Kingdom Come)

Three more unnamed children (Earth-22; Kingdom Come)

Jonathan Kent II (Earth-686; Dark Knight Returns)

Lara Kent (Earth-686; Dark Knight Returns)

Unnamed son (Unnamed Earth; Act of God)

Zod-Ur (Earth 12; Batman Beyond; though he is the biological son of E12!Diana and E50!Clark and fostered by E12!Clark)

With Linda Danvers:

Ariella Kent (New Earth main continuity; erased)

With Lois Lane:

Jonathan Samuel Kent

Jonathan Kent (Arrowverse; Superman & Lois TV show)

Jordan Kent (Arrowverse; Superman & Lois TV show)

Christopher ‘Chris’ Kent (Earth-16 - again, The Just comics, not YJ; their son in YJ is a version of Jon)

Clark Kent Jr. (Earth-154; Super-Sons)

Jorel Kent (Earth-2020; Superman 2020)

Joel Perry Kent (Earth-3839; Batman/Superman: Generations)

Kara Kent (Earth-3839; Batman/Superman: Generations)

Jason White (Unnamed Earth; Superman Returns movie)

Adam Kent (Unnamed Earth; Created Equal)

Hunter Prince (adopted; Alternate Future; Justice League: Legacy)

Children of Wonder Woman / Diana of Themyscira

With Clark Kent:

Bruce Kent (Unnamed Earth; Distant Fires)

Jonathan Kent II (Earth-22; Kingdom Come)

Three more unnamed children (Earth-22; Kingdom Come)

Jonathan Kent II (Earth-686; Dark Knight Returns)

Lara Kent (Earth-686; Dark Knight Returns)

Unnamed son (Unnamed Earth; Act of God)

Zod-Ur (Earth 12; Batman Beyond; though he is the biological son of E12!Diana and E50!Clark)

With Steve Trevor:

Hippolyta ‘Lyta’ Trevor-Hall (New Earth main continuity; rewritten to no longer be either of their child/Earth-2)

Vicki Trevor (Earth-34; Wonder Woman: Amazonia)

Ettie Trevor (Earth-34; Wonder Woman: Amazonia)

Stephanie ‘Stevie’ Trevor (Earth-3839; Batman/Superman: Generations; also Bruce Wayne’s stepdaughter)

With Steppenwolf:

Donna of Amazon Island (Earth 2)

With the Darkness:

Hunter Prince (Alternate Future; Justice League: Legacy)

Children of Wonder Girl / Troia / Donna Troy

With Terry Long:

Jennifer Long (stepdaughter; New Earth main continuity; dead and also erased)

Robert Long (New Earth main continuity; dead and also erased)

Children of Zatanna Zatara

With John Constantine:

Zatara II (Earth-22; Kingdom Come)

Raven (adopted; Earth-24; Bombshells)

[ruubicunda]

hello!! i’m very very new to tumblr so please bare with me <3 i’m Rubi!! i’ve been wanting a space to nerd out about my comic book obsessions (harley quinn and deadpool, specifically) for ages so figured i’d give tumblr a shot :]]

harley quinn has been my primary special interest since i was 13. i only got into deadpool recently but it’s hit me like a truck. i’m currently actively reading deadpool comics so i will probably post about those a lot!

some of my favourite comic book series are poison ivy 2022, harley quinn 2014-2020 (the new 52 and rebirth), and deadpool 2023 !!

always happy to make friends :)) <3

[petty-d4bblr]

so i've watched dc's legends of tomorrow, the original constantine movie, and the constantine show with matt ryan in it along with various other media. i've been collecting harley quinn comic books for a few years now but my local comic book store has a wide selection of hellblazer comics and i was wondering if you could recommend where i should start? i really like his matt ryan version but want to get down to the nitty gritty of who john constantine truly is. there are just so many to choose from and at the moment i want to be smart with my budget but also collect comics if that makes sense? also i hope you're having a lovely day! i enjoy seeing you on my dash. <3

Honestly, I would say to start at the beginning with Jamie Delano's Hellblazer. It really maps out John as a person. He's complex. At that part of the story, John is just back from helping out Swamp Thing for the first time in *his* comics. John's girlfriend, Emma, has just been murdered in the US, and he's trying really hard to get back to normal in London. It also jumps straight in with a couple of stories that NBC's Constantine recreated for screen with Matt Ryan, so it's familiar territory. (I honestly read all of Hellblazer in his voice)

Delano's writing and style is not to everyone's taste, but I really enjoyed reading Hellblazer in chronological order and went from non-comic book reader to "has-a-whole-bookcase-of-comics" in the space of 2 years haha.

But, if your budget is super tight and you can only have 1 or 2, the "City of Demons" graphic novel by Si Spencer is a really good encapsulated story you can enjoy out of order with the others. Or the 4 issues of "The Books of Magic" by Neil Gaiman is also a fun run with Constantine in it, without needing to be in line with the others too much.

Or, alternatively, you can skip all the first 300 original Hellblazer stories and jump straight to Si Spurrier's "John Constantine: Hellblazer." (2019). There are only 2 graphic novels in this series (sadly), but it really gets John as a person and kind of brings Hellblazer John into today's world, stepping away from the more mainstream "superwizard" Constantine that DC use more nowadays. It actually makes even more sense if you read "Books of Magic" first and then start on Spurrier's Hellblazer. And, if you like Spurrier's books, then I would definitely recommend going back and reading Hellblazer issue #1 by Delano from the start!

I didn't really enjoy DC Rebirth Constantine or the more mainstream stuff too much (eg . "Rise and Fall"), because I really like the more grubby, real world Hellblazer Constantine. But modern DC mainstream Constantine is a little more like Legends of Tomorrow's style in many ways. So it really depends on your taste!

I hope this was helpful! Enjoy your journey with John (and be careful, I hear he has a reputation for trouble)!